Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2556647#Post2556647Part 2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2565389&page=1Part 3:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2565428#Post2565428Part 4:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=11&page=1Part 5:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2572764#Post2572764Part 6:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2574948#Post2574948The story so far...
-STBX involved in A since late December/early January 2015
-I begin versions of LRT in mid-February
-STBX moves in with her parents first week of April
-I expose A to OM's W in mid-April
-STBX threatens to file for D immediately following exposure of A
-Holding pattern for now
-Pulling farther back from STBX
-Established boundary regarding daily contact with children
-Getting served D papers any day
The title of this thread comes from a Nirvana song. Felt appropriate. Today is apparently the day that my W will serve me D papers. Can a Monday get any worse?
Thinking of you today, buddy.
Don't do anything you'll regret later.
Defacto - thinking of you. The anxiety is the worst leading up to it. In my experience, it will get easier. Again, it's a process and everybody's journey is different.
While mine hasn't gone for the best, yours can - after you realize what best is for you.
Defacto ... caught up on your sitch a bit.
Ok concerning the post Wonka gave you about the R talks. I am not sure how closely you are following my sitch but I have been at this for almost 2 years now ... DBing half that.
When and if you do get to the R talks .. which in our cases its few and far between its a good opportunity for you as the LBH to make a firm stand on what you NEED .. not want. Your W seems pretty wishy washy, its not a bad thing to simply state what you need out of a relationship, this does a couple things. First it shows her that you are strong and you are not just going to accept what happened, in fact you learned from it, taking a leadership role in your relationship and standing up for yourself and stating your needs... this relationship or the next ... notice I dropped the seed of what I NEED from my spouse, 'whomever' that will be (The image of us with someone else is something they typically are not prepared for). Secondly it lets her know what you expect from her as a W from this point forward ... your demands/boundaries may be out of the question, but that does not matter .. its what YOU NEED ... mine were simple, and if she can not meet them then I honestly have no desire to try to DB nor save the M and I was clear that we might as well file .... this also has some effect in the fact that now its not just them pushing for D, when I agreed to sign all the docs at mediation and actually set up the appointments this really confused her.
When a WAW is not to sure about D and the LBH finds himself, knows he will be ok regardless of the situation this really gets them confused and starts painting a clearer picture over that fantasyland canvas.
Strength and honor, Defacto. Prayers going up your way today. Remember, as others have pointed out -- being served is NOT the be-all/end-all. My wife and I pulled back from that abyss no less than four times in our sitch, and have now put 8 years into our rear-view mirror since that ugly summer of 2007. Even if you DO end up divorcing, approximately 20% of divorced couples end up re-marrying each other, with an overwhelming majority reporting that the new marriage is far stronger and happier than the old one!
Starsky
. . .its not a bad thing to simply state what you need out of a relationship, this does a couple things. First it shows her that you are strong and you are not just going to accept what happened, in fact you learned from it, taking a leadership role in your relationship and standing up for yourself and stating your needs... this relationship or the next ... notice I dropped the seed of what I NEED from my spouse, 'whomever' that will be (The image of us with someone else is something they typically are not prepared for). Secondly it lets her know what you expect from her as a W from this point forward ... your demands/boundaries may be out of the question, but that does not matter .. its what YOU NEED ...
This ^^^ is golden stuff, Defacto. The people I've seen DB successfully (Pearlharbr comes immediately to mind) were masters at positioning their "demands" as more of a "Hey, I don't know if *you* can be this person or not; I'm just telling you it's what *I* need. I totally understand if you don't think you can do this (I think Pearl actually went so far as to tell her wayward boyfriend that she didn't think he could!), but I'm not going to accept anything less than this in a marital relationship going forward, whether that's with you or with someone else."
Powerful flipping of the power dynamic, and it's really just learning to assert (and enforce) your own boundaries in life.
Starsky
. . .(Pearlharbr comes immediately to mind) were masters at positioning their "demands" as more of a "Hey, I don't know if *you* can be this person or not; I'm just telling you it's what *I* need. I totally understand if you don't think you can do this (I think Pearl actually went so far as to tell her wayward boyfriend that she didn't think he could!), . . .
I don't know if I'd recommend this with a wayward wife as much as I would with a wayward husband or boyfriend. There's someone about telling us guys that you don't think we have the chops to be able to do something difficult, that makes us want to rise to the challenge!
Matt, Rip, Cali, & Starsky,
Thanks for you support. I wouldn't be handling this at all without all of your positivity. So far today has gone well. Work has kept me busy and I am staying grounded. I am ok with the inevitable. I know it's not end of anything.
STBX has called three times this morning. I ignored these calls. I don't feel like helping her deal with the guilt she might be feeling right now.
Cali, I took your advice and began to work on my list of needs in a R. This was an empowering exercise and really helped instill a newfound confidence. I deserve to be fulfilled in my relationships. Now is my chance to ensure that I have that opportunity, either with my STBX or a future Mrs. Defacto.
Thinking positive thoughts for you Defacto. Like others have stated, this isn't the end of the road by far and in fact may just be the turning point in the journey.
Keep breathing.
PP
STBX has called three times this morning. I ignored these calls. I don't feel like helping her deal with the guilt she might be feeling right now.
Exaaaactly. If she texts you later with a "You okay?" (after presumably you get served), just delay a couple of hours and maybe reply with an "Of course. Not what I would have wanted, by any stretch, but I realize now I'll be just fine no matter what the outcome" (or something similar).
Starsky
I took off from work about an hour early because I wanted to get this over with. Plus, I had to pick up two twelve packs for beer club tomorrow at work. When I got home, MIL was still there with the kids. Really? I couldn't get some time to myself on today of all days. But seriously, it was good to see the kids. Plus, I was able to show D4 the flowers I picked up at lunch for the butterfly garden.
Once I got settled, I planted myself on the patio sans shirt with a scotch in hand. I figured, why not get served on my terms? Six o clock came and went. Nothing. So I went to get some wings and a beer around the corner. Of course I put my shirt on first.
While I was enjoying my wings, STBX sends me a TM. "I really wanted to talk to you this afternoon." I didn't reply. She calls fifteen minutes later. I missed her call. I figured it was a good time to say goodnight to the kiddos, so I called her back.
I FaceTimed with the kids for a bit. While chatting, D4 asked where I was a bunch of times. I just said I was outside at dinner. STBX said it looked really pretty there. I was my normal happy self on the call. STBX made it a point to say that I looked really good. She also said she was having a hard time with every thing today. She asked me how I was doing and I said I was doing good.
At the end of the call, STBX asked if she could ask me a question. I said sure. She asked if someone came by at 6. I said no and I kind of laughed and said "was I supposed to be there?" Oops, didn't get the memo.
We said our goodbyes. Since then, STBX called me two more times. Goodness, leave me alone with my scotch!
The good news is that I have great GAL plans scheduled for tomorrow night with my two best friends. What will be, will be. Looks like I'll get served another day.
Damn defacto. We are in similar sitches, but you have great taste. Love scotch. I'm a single malt guy myself and laphroig neat is so delicious. Really big on the smokey islay malts. Hope you were able to enjoy and yeah, you don't need to wait for it. Not your job to let it happen. Hope tomorrow is a good one!
More of a bourbon guy myself. But I'll have to get some scotch and try it out.
Live to fight another day I guess.
Thanks Rip & Matt! It's been s long time since I had two glasses of scotch in a single sitting. I also decided to pack my pipe last night and enjoy a bedtime smoke.
NC with STBX since last night other than an email about D4's school tuition. I usually talk with the kids on my off nights but I think I'll pass tonight due to my GAL plans. My two best friends and I are driving down to a concert. I've been looking forward to this night for months. This band put out a record last year that has become the soundtrack of my life as of late. Tonight should be just what the doctor ordered.
STBX knows I am going to this concert tonight but not who with. I'd like to keep it that way. Keep that mystery going of the new and improved Defacto.
No news on getting served. I know STBX said in the past that she didn't want to serve me at work or while I was with kids. I'm headed straight to the concert from work tonight so I guess the next possible night would be Friday. It's time to make sure my plans that night are on point.
Another day almost in the books.
Hey D
Hoping this is some crazy indy pop or metal band. Either way I want to hear stories of crowd surfing. Unless it's a folk concert or gospel choir, then that would be REALLY inappropriate :-)
NDY,
The concert was incredible. Unfortunately, I can tell no true stories of crowdsurfing.
The last two days have been pretty normal. On Tuesday, STBX attempted to FaceTime while I was driving down to the concert but I didn't answer. Yesterday, STBX texted me a pic of D4 at summer camp and then called me a few hours later. I didn't respond or answer either one. I did FaceTime with the kids last night. I was supposed to have the kids last night but STBX got called off from work so she offered to have them another night. Catch 22, I will take another night to myself but I really miss the kids dearly. Nonetheless, it was fantastic to see and talk with them. The interaction with STBX was cordial but brief.
I'm doing well. Every now and then, something will trigger an emotion but as time passes, I think I'm just getting more comfortable with the inevitable reality. Yesterday, I cruised from work early to work "remotely" and I just laid out on the patio for a bit. I also started preparing and taking notes for my next discussion group meeting on Saturday night. Not a whole lot I can do other than focus on my own happiness and remaining a dedicated father.
Speaking of fatherhood, until yesterday, I forgot that Father's Day is this Sunday. I'm not sure what my personal plans are but I have heard STBX and D4 allude to a gift so they might have something planned. I will have the kids later on Sunday so I think I should find something fun to do with them, maybe go to a friend's house or check out that indoor playground again. Not sure.
Any ideas or suggestions for Father's Day? I imagine I should just go along with whatever STBX and D4 have planned for me, right?
Wishing you the best GB.
Enjoy your Fathers Day weekend.
Hi Defacto,
What golden advice you have been receiving. I'm very happy that you've been getting such fantastic support.
As far as your question, "Any ideas or suggestions for Father's Day? I imagine I should just go along with whatever STBX and D4 have planned for me, right?" I think as long as you are ok with it, go along with their plans.
Please keep a PMA and take things slowly.
Have a great Father's Day weekend my friend.
Bob
Thanks Matt and Bob for the Father's Day greetings!
Today was the day. Just got served D papers 10 minutes ago. I'm feeling apathetic towards it right now but I'm probably in denial. I scanned through the paperwork and everything seems amicable but I need to get it over to my L this morning to have a look.
Everyone is off the mind to delay the process, right?
Would you believe that STBX had the audacity to call and leave a voicemail asking if I had been served this morning? Wow!
Would you believe that STBX had the audacity to call and leave a voicemail asking if I had been served this morning? Wow!
.
Sadly, yes. I believe it.
Keep your chin up D. Nothing's really different than it was 3 weeks ago. Keep doing what you're doing.
Would you believe that STBX had the audacity to call and leave a voicemail asking if I had been served this morning? Wow!
Unfortunately yes, I do believe it. Have you responded to her yet? I think the attitude here is 'meh'.
Thanks Matt & NDY,
There is no way I am responding to STBX. Talk about emasculating! Let her call her L to find out if I got served. Or she can ask me tonight when I talk with the kids.
Cool
Well, if she does ask you I still stand by the 'meh' attitude. Good luck.
Cool
Well, if she does ask you I still stand by the 'meh' attitude. Good luck.
I would not adopt the 'meh' attitude.
I will steal one from Starsky and go with the "Yes, its not what I would have wanted but I will be fine regardless... head high.. you will not break me nor my PMA type attitude"
Get it to your L and continue building yourself into the man you want to be ... this will not define you.
I'd suggest saying
"It's the most devastating piece of mail I have ever received. I'm heartbroken today. I really didn't think you would do this to us. I thought there was nothing that [your first name{ and [her first name] could' t overcome together. I'll be OK but I don't think it's very nice of you to be trying to console me over this. I just need some space. I'll see you sunday."
Sunday you should be great. Happy. Kind. Nice. Attentive. Be the 180 of what she'd expect. Let HER feel guilty and beat herself up but you don't do that at all. You aren't standoffish BUT if she wants to "talk" on Sunday you just say "unless you are telling me you are dropping the divorce and coming home, I'd really appreciate it we could NOT have this conversation on Father's Day. I've already had a rough week. Then go back to having fun and being engaging...even with her.
"telling me you are dropping the divorce and coming home" does' t me you are willing to DISCUSS her feelings about MAYBE dropping it and MAYBE working things out....it's either Yes or No. Because you aren't there to try to talk her into it staying married to you. She either wants to or not on Sunday (because it's father's day and you just got served divorce papers). Come next week, i'd rather you had any conversation with her she wants to have. Active listening with calm detached questioning.
As far as the divorce being amicable. That's great. Nothing worse than getting blindsided by the typical divorce petition that starts out really hostile. I strongly urge you to respond in 21 days with a more aggressive filing at least requesting primary custody of the children. The point isn't to get primary but to file for it and make her fear the consequences of her choices. She'll get angry....which is good for her. You'll say "I don't do divorce, my attorney handles it and I told him/her to do whatever they feel is best and leave you out of it to the largest extent possible. I had no idea he/she was going to do that...I'll have to speak with him/her". You can and probably will negotiate down later IF the case even proceeds. But recall...the path to intimacy is through conflict. By filing aggressively you get to say this is NOT OK. It's not fair I have to give up 50% of my time with my children when YOU choose to break your vows. You get to say that YOU are the better parent and she's not fully thinking of what this will do to your children. You can also tell her that your attorney believes that children, especially young children are better off in primary custody with their fathers and he/she told you that that is the way the courts are going these days more and more. Single mothers with children have a difficult time juggling life, bills, boyfriends and children. I'm not knocking single moms who usually do a tremendous job but generally men that want primary custody tend and fight for it, all other things being somewhat equal, tend to do a better job of raising children.
You can also tell her that your attorney believes that children, especially young children are better off in primary custody with their fathers and he/she told you that that is the way the courts are going these days more and more. Single mothers with children have a difficult time juggling life, bills, boyfriends and children. I'm not knocking single moms who usually do a tremendous job but generally men that want primary custody tend and fight for it, all other things being somewhat equal, tend to do a better job of raising children.
Wouldn't this affect the outcome if hes trying to get her back? or even backfire with the courts?
I just FaceTimed with STBX and the kiddos. Everything was normal. I chatted with and about the kids. Near the end of the call, STBX asked if I got the papers. I replied that I had. She asked if I was ok. I said something like, "Yeah, I'm fine. I mean, this isn't what I wanted to happen but I'll be ok regardless."
Then, I talked a little bit more with the kids. I began to say my goodbyes when STBX turned the phone towards her, started to get a little emotional, and said, "I really do love you. There's nothing I regret."
I just kind of stared at her for a moment, smiled, and wished her a good night. She said the same and I disconnected the call.
I didn't really want to prolong the call, nor did I want to pour it on so STBX would feel guilt. I don't think any amount of guilt will repair a broken marriage. Plus, I'm not devestated, at least not today. I've been preparing for this day for months.
Now, on to a night of GAL'ing!
Journaling:
Had a good night. Met up with some friends for to watch another Beatles cover band. They were horrible. Then, a buddy of mine from work joined me for a few drinks at a couple of different spots. It felt good to be out and check out some different places.
While I was out, STBX called and sent three TMs. I didn't answer or reply. The first TM was a video of the kids dancing. She sent the next TMs two hours later.
"I wish we could be ok."
"I'm heartbroken."
I'm not going to try and mindread. It just seems a bit ironic based on the current sitch.
Currently enjoying a cup of coffee on the patio. I'm excited about the possibilities for today because they are all mine! I might do a little hiking on a trail I've been wanting to check out. Tonight, I have my philosophy discussion group which is always a fulfilling activity. I might fill up the afternoon with errands and chores around the house. Have a great weekend everybody and happy Father's Day!
It's gotta be tough getting texts like that. It's hard for me to imagine how I could react - though I realize this isn't the first time your W has sent messages like these. My W has not showed an ounce of remorse or sadness since 5/5. Just completely resolute that D is coming.
Anyway, enjoy the day and the weekend.
Yeah Matt, getting texts like that make you wonder for a second. But then I remember she served me D papers Friday morning. This is going to be a long journey.
Speaking of texts...
While on my absolutely exhilarating hike, STBX sent me a TM.
W: Want to go see a movie with the kids and me?
Me: (an hour later) Thanks for the invite. Can't make it today but have fun!
W: Anytime!
Oh, you know, just another Saturday matinee with two soon-to-be divorced parents and their two innocent children. Totally normal and healthy. Yeah right.
The texts sounds like W wants to keep you on the rope. Just drop the rope.
Hi Defacto, I'm sorry to hear that your W has filed for D. But I think you are handling things well. It sounds as though your W may have some conflict. However, I think you need to continue on your own path. She knows already this isn't what you want.
If she wants something to change, you won't miss it for sure. Just keep moving forward as if this is how your life is going to be. And if you choose to leave the door open a little ways - your W may or may not push it open further.
Good luck to you xx
Mvg,
I have no idea what motivated STBX's TM. I can only focus on my happiness right now.
Toots,
Thanks for the support! You are absolutely right. STBX knows good and well what my stance is. I only lessen the impact by repeating it. I actually feel good about where I am right now. I know it's true when I say that I will be fine either way. If STBX ever wakes up, she knows where to find me.
Journaling:
I just got back from the pool and plopped down on the couch to watch a movie. STBX calls. I ignore it. She then sends a TM that says she is outside my house because D4 wanted to see me.
As I step outside my front door, D4 comes running toward me, wishing me a happy Father's Day. I gobble her up and squeeze her tight. They all come inside for a few minutes and D4 gave me half of my Father's Day gift. D4 asks if she can spend the night with me tonight. I smile and say that she can't tonight because daddy has plans.
During the unexpected visit, STBX put her hand on my knee for a few minutes while sitting on the couch and she initiated two hugs to tell me happy Father's Day and that I'm a great father. Of course, I employed Sandi's advice of returning the hug like you are hugging your grandma.
I will never complain about a visit with my kids even if it is unexpected or unannounced.
Then, I talked a little bit more with the kids. I began to say my goodbyes when STBX turned the phone towards her, started to get a little emotional, and said, "I really do love you. There's nothing I regret."
While I was out, STBX called and sent three TMs. I didn't answer or reply. The first TM was a video of the kids dancing. She sent the next TMs two hours later.
"I wish we could be ok."
"I'm heartbroken."
While on my absolutely exhilarating hike, STBX sent me a TM.
W: Want to go see a movie with the kids and me?
Me: (an hour later) Thanks for the invite. Can't make it today but have fun!
She is pursuing you. Either you did not fall apart and plead, the way she expected, or she's trying to have her foot in both worlds.
She is pursuing you. Either you did not fall apart and plead, the way she expected, or she's trying to have her foot in both worlds.
Hello Defacto,
I see Sandi replied. She is the expert, as you know, so I have nothing to add at this time. You heard it from the best.
Defacto, keep you the good work.
I think about you often.
Bob
I think you are doing great. From your stbx's texts, it does not seem like the R is over.
RAI
PS happy Father's day!
She's doing exactly what my wife did back in 2008, trying to keep you on the hook, keep the Defacto and the OM plate spinning all at the same time.
Listen to the likes of Sandi. I'm still married 7 years later but really poor at "advising". This is going to take a lot more time yet Defacto.
GH31
Happy Father's Day!
I agree. Now is not the time to allow her to manage her guilt by having more of you in her life. Keep pulling back.
Defacto, you have been strong. Keep it up. I am glad to see you're keeping up with taking care if you...also glad you got to see the kids yesterday.
Journaling (Father's Day edition):
Started the day off lazily. Coffee on the patio and miscellaneous errands around the house. Met a friend at church and then headed over to pick up the kids.
The kid exchange was fairly uneventful. I opened up a card and gifts from the kids. I kept the interaction with STBX businesslike but cordial. The visit was brief because I told D4 I was starving for lunch.
Enjoyed lunch at D4's favorite restaurant and then picked up some more flowers to plant on the patio. Took the kids on a wagon ride and then grilled up some bratwursts. Assembled a makeshift tent downstairs, made vanilla coke slurpees, and pigged out on popcorn while we watched a movie.
STBX called to talk with kids on her way to work. Immediately put the kids on speakerphone and after a few minutes I said goodbye. Again, very businesslike but not mean.
Thanks for all the Father's Day wishes! I truly had a special day with my kids. I will try to cherish this day for as long as possible. For tomorrow morning, my L's retainer agreement will arrive to my email inbox.
Kind of a rocky day so far. Received and completed my L's retainer agreement. Then, my STBX posted a goofy Instagram video of herself and it triggered me a bit. In the video, I saw the personality of STBX that made me fall in love with her. It stinks to see her so happy without me and knowing that I am not a part of her life in that way anymore.
Don't mind read, D. It just brings you down.
I've read quite a few (mine included) of people who R and find out the WAS wasn't as happy as they played it off to be. Not saying this is the case with your W but you don't really KNOW what it is.
I unfriended H on FB bc I knew he was watching what I was doing and I also didn't want to see him doing other things.
I think she might be GAL'ing you hoping you'll pursue.
The fact you are attracted to her again is encouraging. Wayards are black souls with empty eyes devoid of vitality. I think this further confirms that she's not "dating" or otherwise seeing OM anymore.
Maybe not.
Ask her to take a trip with you....maybe the 4th of July weekend???
And so what have you been posting to show your GAL?
Take the kids out on the 4th and just have a great time with them. Don't even bother with your W. She's having fun without you.
T0,
Good to hear from you. You are right, nothing good comes from mindreading. Anyway, I really don't know who STBX is anymore.
Wayards are black souls with empty eyes devoid of vitality.
GB,
Whenever I'm feeling down, I will think of this ^^^. I love it.
In regards to STBX's mindset, she has a high school friend in town this week. Over the weekend, they're going to head out of town. Who knows where her head is at?
About that suggestion of a trip, both of us have to work July 4th. But, I thought now is the time to really pull back. I mean, she served me D papers on Friday.
Definitely do not go on a trip with her.
And so what have you been posting to show your GAL?
Take the kids out on the 4th and just have a great time with them. Don't even bother with your W. She's having fun without you.
Hey Mr. Bond,
Thanks for stopping by! I always appreciate your take on my sitch.
I was just invited to a 4th of July BBQ. Maybe I'll take the kids...
In response to your question about my GAL, I have quite a few things going on. However, my approach has been one of radio silence when it comes to social media. I don't want to be the guy trying to outdo my STBX on Instagram. But, whenever I FaceTime with STBX, I'm usually in my car going somewhere or out at a restaurant, etc. Or, I'll wear a shirt that accentuates my tan when STBX drops off the kids.
But I dunno. Maybe it's time to flaunt a little more?
Yes it is. And besides its not a competition anyway. It's a way of sharing your memories
T0,
Good to hear from you. You are right, nothing good comes from mindreading. Anyway, I really don't know who STBX is anymore.
Wayards are black souls with empty eyes devoid of vitality.
GB,
Whenever I'm feeling down, I will think of this ^^^. I love it.
In regards to STBX's mindset, she has a high school friend in town this week. Over the weekend, they're going to head out of town. Who knows where her head is at?
About that suggestion of a trip, both of us have to work July 4th. But, I thought now is the time to really pull back. I mean, she served me D papers on Friday.
You don't have to be reactive. I'd rather see you acting "as if". As if she belongs with you and you are a confident fun loving guy that she should want to be around.
Invite her and her girlfriend over for a cook out or something, then be a great guy and entertainer. Nothing better than having her girlfriend tell her "If you don't want him, I'd love to have him" or tell her "what the F are you thinking, he is awesome". Engage both of them and make your wife 'pursue' being the focal point of your conversation and attention.
IF your wife had filed for divorce, was still treating you angrily and was still confirmed to be dating and pursuing OM, THEN, I'd say it's time to "drop the rope" and wait for the affair to die. That's NOT your situation. I actually think your missing your opportunity to guide her home. Ignore the divorce filing. It sounds like she set the date a month ago when she was still upset about exposure and unsure. Her attorney made her set a date (way wards are highly susceptible to influence like that....her attorney likely knows how indecisive way wards are so he pushed her to set a date.
Of course, if you want a divorce, that is your right. But if you don't pursue her sometimes, she's going to stop pursuing you for good. Waywards think they are cool and have found the fountain of youth. Your wife is like a high school mean girl. She expects as part of her selfish entitlement to have YOU chasing her to prove you really do care and cherish her because the affair was, in her mind, partially your fault (if only you were a more loving cherishing husband she never would have considered cheating). It's not fair. It's a lie that she needs to untangle in recovery but it's her line of thinking today.
What's the point of GAL'ing if not to get your wayward wife to pursue you and have second thoughts? Defacto's wife is....so go for it in small intense and small detached increments. Heck, just FaceTime her and talk/listen. I spent HOURS even days talking my wife off the wayward ledge.
Your W filed for D this week. Don't ask her out. You'd just be rewarding bad behavior.
Your W filed for D this week. Don't ask her out. You'd just be rewarding bad behavior.
His wife is not a dog that poop'ed on the rug. She's not his pet that he is trying train. This isn't obedience school and it's not like she's going to file for divorce AGAIN (as in, "hmmm, if I file for divorce all the sudden Defacto is being nice to me...I should file for divorce more often).
She's a weak lost soul that Defacto can either try to save or not. IF she's savable and not completely unredeemable, then going out there and pulling her through.... then out of the fog will just speed things along versus waiting outside the fog for her to stumble upon him. If she's NOT savable or redeemable, then he'll have his answer sooner or later about whether this marriage is actually savable versus waiting on the sidelines indefinitely.
A confident attractive man goes for what HE wants without reacting to what she does. Ignore the divorce for now. If she brings it up, repeat that you don't want it, don't want to talk about it and maybe ask her to put it on hold or dismiss it (especially if she complains about your tough answer to her complaint).
Last week I suggested a temporary pull back on Friday and telling her to give you space because you were devastated by her filing as part of a strategy whereby sunday, when I thought you two were spending time together you could then pursue her. You not BEING devastated only make the strategy an easier sell. Remember, the second part of distancing is pursuing. This is supposed to be a dance and Defacto isn't dancing at all...just distancing.
In the alternative, go party with you wife and her girlfriend. Have a good time. Don't be serious. You want the girlfriend to tell your wife the next day that she's nuts to let you go. Invite yourself (as if) if you have to because your wife probably won't presuming you wouldn't want to. She could say no and then you just say, "well, I'll be at this place for a while if you and girlfriend want to come on by". They'll probably come by because your wife is still having second thoughts AND because she's dying to know what the heck has got into you and whether their might be another woman involved. She'll be compelled to track you down so don't ask desperately, just ask her as though she's a friend.
You can't recover if you don't spend time together. I'm not saying you have to recover. You can and will be happy either way. You will make it. But if you still feel like trying, don't let the opportunity pass you by.
GB, I never referred to her in the context of an animal with baser instincts. Believe it or not, your opinion weighs the same amount as mine.
His W literally just had him served and expects them to be buddy buddy? Sorry it doesn't work that way.
Defacto, it's ultimately up to you. But it sounds like you're good with spending it alone with your kids. That's the best way to go. You don't need to depend on your W to have a good time and a bit of independence on Independence Day goes a long way.
Just have an incredible time with your kids.
GB, I never referred to her in the context of an animal with baser instincts. Believe it or not, your opinion weighs the same amount as mine.
His W literally just had him served and expects them to be buddy buddy? Sorry it doesn't work that way.
Defacto, it's ultimately up to you. But it sounds like you're good with spending it alone with your kids. That's the best way to go. You don't need to depend on your W to have a good time and a bit of independence on Independence Day goes a long way.
Just have an incredible time with your kids.
I just don't understand you. "It doesn't work that way"? What are you talking about? Where is that written and what rule book are you looking at? Where did his wife say she wanted to be all "buddy buddy" with him? Was it while they were having sex a month ago??? This is just so contradictory to what MWD would recommend. She's still Defacto's wife today. She's NOT his buddy. They are married. And she's texting, calling him, face timing him and just pursuing him. In generally I think he should behave "as if" and like her strong secure husband until he's not her husband anymore (or until he's completely done). There is no punishment/reward system like you suggest in successful marriages or successful marital recovery programs that I know of. It's just seems so juvenile to be sorta like, "I'm not talking to you, you filed for divorce (reluctantly) and now you need to be punished"
In my opinion, I think that Defacto is in Step 3 sub paragraph 2 of the Last Resort Technique.
Here's what MWD says he should do (her opinion matters more than both Mr. Bond or myself):
2) Your mate becomes curious.S/he might start showing more interest in you, your whereabouts, and what you are up to in your life. Your spouse might even suggest you spend some time together to talk or do something enjoyable. It's also possible that your spouse might start asking you a lot of questions about your sudden changes. If any of these things begin to happen, here's my advice:
Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.
Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.
Do not ask any questions about your future together.
Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.
Continue to be upbeat.
Do not say, "I love you"
Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.
Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.
The general rule of thumb here is to be responsive to your partners new interest, but not too responsive. If you go overboard, your partner will get cold feet. I've seen it happen many times before. If you are excited that the last-resort technique is working, share it with a friend, write it in your journal, go for a run around the block, but don't wear your emotions on your sleeve.
You need to stay interested, but cool, until you are absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold.
Once you feel absolutely sure that this is so, you can test the waters by becoming more obvious about your desire to stay together. You can try discussing your future together and see what happens. If your spouse is receptive, you can continue to move forward slowly and begin to tackle the issues that drove you apart in the first place. If, on the other hand, you're met with reluctance, backpedal just as quickly as you can. Resume your interested but distant stance until things move in a more positive direction. This might take a whole lot longer that you would like, weeks, even months. However, you must be patient. As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it's okay for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? Be patient Stop Your Divorce with the Last Resort Technique
"She's NOT his buddy. They are married. And she's texting, calling him, face timing him and just pursuing him."
To be buddies or "friends". Just because she calls him (and in such a short time). Doesn't mean that she wants to get back together. Proof is that she filed. Someone whose "interested" wouldn't do that.
How would you say she has a renewed interest if she just served him with papers?
I'm just curious...
Defacto - I know the variable recommendations are hard to deal with so I don't envy you at all in that sense but I think you can decide what you want to do.
If it were me, and I'm obviously not an expert, I would continue to be dark but warm and friendly when you do interact. Be the attractive confident guy she fell in love witH because you are.
You need to stay interested, but cool, until you are absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold.
Once you feel absolutely sure that this is so, you can test the waters by becoming more obvious about your desire to stay together. You can try discussing your future together and see what happens. If your spouse is receptive, you can continue to move forward slowly and begin to tackle the issues that drove you apart in the first place. If, on the other hand, you're met with reluctance, backpedal just as quickly as you can. Resume your interested but distant stance until things move in a more positive direction. This might take a whole lot longer that you would like, weeks, even months. However, you must be patient. As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it's okay for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? Be patient Stop Your Divorce with the Last Resort Technique
GB,
I am a huge proponent of a nuanced approach to pursuit and distance. It certainly makes sense and is inline with MWD's writings above. However, my big concern is MWD's line about being "absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold." Outside of a few guilt-driven TM's, I have no evidence STBX wants to save MR. The only hard evidence I have on anything is that she wants to end MR, albeit possibly reluctantly. (She filed for D on 06/03 and served me on 06/19). It seems like she is a bit distracted right now by her friend being in town.
But, I know this is no exact science. My goal is try to save my MR, my family, and myself.
Def
I know there are different thoughts/takes on DBing ... in your case I do feel holding true to "believe nothing of what they say 50% of what they do" gives you guidance on the direction you should take .. your W is more than likely dealing with some guilt but she served you ... not that its over by any means but I think your DB approach must reflect this ACTION she has carried out and not by the guilt ridden WORDS she has spoken.
You need to stay interested, but cool, until you are absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold.
Once you feel absolutely sure that this is so, you can test the waters by becoming more obvious about your desire to stay together. You can try discussing your future together and see what happens. If your spouse is receptive, you can continue to move forward slowly and begin to tackle the issues that drove you apart in the first place. If, on the other hand, you're met with reluctance, backpedal just as quickly as you can. Resume your interested but distant stance until things move in a more positive direction. This might take a whole lot longer that you would like, weeks, even months. However, you must be patient. As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it's okay for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? Be patient Stop Your Divorce with the Last Resort Technique
GB,
I am a huge proponent of a nuanced approach to pursuit and distance. It certainly makes sense and is inline with MWD's writings above. However, my big concern is MWD's line about being "absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold." Outside of a few guilt-driven TM's, I have no evidence STBX wants to save MR. The only hard evidence I have on anything is that she wants to end MR, albeit possibly reluctantly. (She filed for D on 06/03 and served me on 06/19). It seems like she is a bit distracted right now by her friend being in town.
But, I know this is no exact science. My goal is try to save my MR, my family, and myself.
Well, your wife isn't exactly the first part of the last resort technique either as she never really fit the description of "your spouse has said to you in no uncertain terms that s/he wants to get a divorce and it appears as if s/he really means it". She's been wishy washy on the whole thing, waited until he last minute to tell you, was apologetic and blame her attorney for setting the deadline as if she had no choice. This isn't the standard "I hate you and could absolutely never see myself with you ever again because OM is my soulmate and twice the man you'll ever be" situation.
That's why we have to discuss these things on the forum as Michelle isn't here to give her recommendations so we can only try to guess what that recommendation would be:
I think we can all agree that your wife does, at least, satisfy the requirements of the first stanza of LRT, Step 3, sub paragraph 2 to wit:
S/he might start showing more interest in you, your whereabouts, and what you are up to in your life. Your spouse might even suggest you spend some time together to talk or do something enjoyable. It's also possible that your spouse might start asking you a lot of questions about your sudden changes. If any of these things begin to happen, here's my advice:
Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.
Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.
Do not ask any questions about your future together.
Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.
Continue to be upbeat.
Do not say, "I love you"
Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.
Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.
I'd say you haven't been very "loving in return" recently nor are you accepting some invitations to spend time together.
I think you should also check out the Michelle's article "The Medium is in the Message" and maybe apply that by sending your wife a message to download another app that might let you two communicate better or have some fun goofy communications, like snapchat or KiK. Then you have an excuse to be a iittle goofy while getting acclimated to the new app. The beautiful thing about a something like snapchat is your short little fun video goes poof after she watches it twice. It's giving her a "dose" of fun you...that she doesn't get to save. It's an excuse to communicate with her without any other agenda other than perhaps the app will be a nice thing to send quick video's of your kid back and forth without filling up your phone storage with huge video files.
On the other hand, I think always utilizing the dead pan hug is a mistake EXCEPT as it relates to exiting an interaction with your wife. When you first see her she should get all sorts of warmth from you but like the plan above, when you end an activity you set the tone for going your separate ways by pulling out the distancing stuff.
How do you feel about Michelle's list above?
I do my best to regularly contribute bits and pieces of marriage advice with my Divorce Busting social media communities. It's always interesting for me to read people's examples of how they adopt the Divorce Busting approach- you guys really are a creative bunch! Recently, however, there was a bit of confusion with one of the posts on the Divorce Busting Facebook Page. I write this post in order to clarify my thoughts. But in the end, if your marriage is truly teetering on the brink of divorce and you have been trying everything you can think of, sometimes no message is the most powerful message of all! But before you draw that conclusion, read this post!
The Medium is in the Message
When you are trying to get through to your partner, there are many ways to do it. You can have a face-to-face discussion, write a heartfelt letter, e-mail or text message, talk about things over the phone, or send a greeting card. Many couples (including Jim and me) admit to having some of their most productive conversations over the phone. I often encourage couples to call each other, even if they're in the same house! The point is, just because you might not be able to get through to your partner during a face-to-face conversation, doesn't mean you should give up. Simply try a different medium.
I know a woman who had been begging her husband for months to be more forthcoming about his out-of-town trips or his late nights at work so that she could make her own plans. Despite what seemed like several thousand reminders, he never did what she asked. This enraged her and they fought constantly. One day, instead of doing the same old thing, she left a calendar and a Magic Marker on the kitchen counter along with a note suggesting that her husband mark his schedule for the following week. When she came downstairs, she discovered her calendar marked with his plans for the next three months.
Another woman I know unintentionally hurt her husband's feelings. She tried apologizing, but he wasn't quite ready to accept. She gave him a day or two to pout, and still, he was holding his grudge. Again, she tried talking to him about the situation, but wasn't receptive. Then she became creative. Right before his morning shower, she got out her lipstick and wrote, "I love you and I am very sorry" on the shower wall. Then, after putting the lipstick on her lips she kissed the wall, leaving "smacks" all over the shower. And then she waited quietly for him to begin his morning routine.
Her husband shaved and stepped into their shower. He turned on the water and simultaneously started to laugh. Though words failed to break the ice, lipstick worked well.
Here's another example...Stu was very concerned about Resa's drinking. For years, he talked of his concerns about her health and about the example she was setting for their two children. Stu's mother was an alcoholic and he was extremely worried that Resa was going down the same path. Every time he discussed his fears with her, they ended up arguing and her behavior never changed. Out of desperation, he decided to write her a heartfelt letter, telling her how much he loved her and how scared he was about losing her. He left the letter on her dresser right before he went on a business trip.
When he returned, he feared that she would be extremely angry at him, but much to his surprise, she greeted him with tears in her eyes and, for the first time in their marriage, admitted that she had a drinking problem. She also said that she was willing to talk to an addictions counselor to help her quit drinking. Resa told Stu that the letter gave her a chance to think about what he was saying without feeling that she needed to defend herself or react in any way. Although the feelings Stu expressed in the letter were very similar to discussion they had had in the past, she felt profoundly affected by seeing his words in black and white.
Changing the medium of your message is one small, although important, example of the broader strategy of doing something different. Adopt this into your routine, and watch the difference it can make in your marriage. You might be surprised...
Michele Weiner Davis
Def, ultimately you're going to have to do what works in your situation. Period.
The facts are that your W had you served, hasn't shown any interest in getting back together and hasn't really done anything to encourage you.
She's not concentrating on you, so you shouldn't be concentrating on her.
Journaling:
Not much to report. Last night, I did a little shopping and then hit up Redbox for a movie. I texted STBX last night to talk with the kids as normal. STBX replied that she would call back in a bit because D4 was swimming. I went on with the rest of my night. STBX finally called back two hours later but I didn't answer because I was busy. She and D4 left a brief voicemail. It was good to hear D4's voice.
This morning, while at work, I must have pocket dialed STBX. She called back and I didn't answer. I decided to call her back because I missed the kids. When she answered, I explained that I missed her call but she said that I called her first. I joked about the pocket dial. I asked to talk with the kids because I missed their call last night.
It was great to talk with D4 and S1. D4 has been so affectionate with her words lately. D4 always makes me smile. Briefly joked with STBX about S1's limited vocabulary and then I wished her goodbye. Very brief call. Cordial yet detached. STBX seemed to have no interest in extending the conversation either.
It's weird. Even though I'm the one who has distanced myself, it seems to affect me sometimes when STBX makes no effort to pursue. I know I shouldn't care so much. I know it only leads to mindreading. After a few minutes, I'm usually able to reset myself. Still, I need to improve here.
Upcoming GAL plans include trivia with friends tonight, art museum or Rod Stewart impersonator on Thursday (haven't decided yet), and then I have the kids Friday through Sunday. STBX took D4 paddle boarding yesterday so I need to resist the urge to out do her in the kids activities department. However, I am considering taking the kids down to the Museum of Discovery and Science or on an airboat ride over the weekend or maybe both.
Def
I know how you feel ... something I noticed and maybe this will help you with those feelings about detaching and wondering why they are not pursuing harder.
As you may or may not know .. I have been separated almost 2 years now .. I will tell you it feels more like 4 months to be honest. In this time I noticed the same thing you described, I would desire her to pursue when she was'nt admitting I was horrible at detaching. But more than that I noticed when she would not pursue ... was when she had S, or she was all good and doing things with OM or one of her new and many hobbies. The only time over the 2 years she did pursue was when the OM was gone or out of the picture and she found herself home alone.
Lesson of that? She pursued when she was not GALing ... it really works both ways. And when I was GALing none of it mattered much .... BUT I will not lie .. I would GAL and get home, there for the next hour or two till I went to bed I would have the internal fight you just mentioned, its not easy but you will start noticing the small changes and it will get better.
"It's weird. Even though I'm the one who has distanced myself, it seems to affect me sometimes when STBX makes no effort to pursue."
Of course it's perfectly normal. You still want your family together.
"Upcoming GAL plans include trivia with friends tonight, art museum or Rod Stewart impersonator on Thursday (haven't decided yet), and then I have the kids Friday through Sunday. STBX took D4 paddle boarding yesterday so I need to resist the urge to out do her in the kids activities department. However, I am considering taking the kids down to the Museum of Discovery and Science or on an airboat ride over the weekend or maybe both.:"
Sounds great! Do both if you can. Give your kids a happy memory with you that they wouldn't get with your W.
"It's weird. Even though I'm the one who has distanced myself, it seems to affect me sometimes when STBX makes no effort to pursue. I know I shouldn't care so much. I know it only leads to mindreading. After a few minutes, I'm usually able to reset myself. Still, I need to improve here."
YES - I've noticed that too. It feels like when I go dark, she's perfectly ok with it and prefers that - all mind reading.
I'm not sure what I want in the future with my ww. A lot I need to figure out, but I'm starting to think the only thing I'm sure on is I don't want to be enemies, hate her or resent her - FOR ME, not her. I don't want to have to hold onto all of those unnecessary feelings, but still processing to hopefully get to that point.
Doesn't mean friendship or relationship, but also doesn't mean I would no longer care either. So tough to define, but have all the time in the world to do so.
I agree about the GAL comment - it works both ways. When I have the kids - W calls or texts. When she has the kids, I want to call way more than I actually do, I usually just text her and ask the kids to call me, which they do. It makes me feel guilty and that the kids may think I have forgotten about them. I call about every other day now when they are with her.
I have told the kids that whenever they want to call W they can do so, have shown them how to call her on the phone and now they can both text.
So....my fear is that they kids love her more and that I will become irrelevant. How crazy is that? I know but that is how part of me feels. When they are with me, we have a great time and I don't want to get caught up in outdoing the W with kid stuff. When they are with me, I want them to have a good time, with plenty of down time and just together time.
Such crazy emotions that run through me.
Thanks for all the response and encouragement yesterday! I worked really hard to obtain a PMA and it paid off.
Journaling;
I had a slow day at work so I dipped out early to work remotely. STBX sent me a TM with a funny pic of S1 as I was driving home. I replied about an hour later with "uh oh lol." When I got home, I took a quick jog, laid out for a bit, made myself dinner, and headed out to Trivia Night. I had a good time with friends but was disappointed with our lowly 4th place result. There's always next week!
I was able to talk with the kids before I headed out. They didn't chat long because STBX took them out for ice cream and they were distracted. I joked with STBX that I was flattered they even said hi to me because it's hard to compete with ice cream. I was friendly and said goodbye. STBX did send out a couple of TMs with pictures of the kids throughout the evening. I didn't respond to these.
I took Mr. Bond's advice and had a friend snap a picture of me, which I posted to Instagram. I know STBX saw it because she "liked" it this morning.
It seems so basic but I think we all need reminding from time to time. The better your GAL is, the better your PMA and detachment is. GAL plans for tonight include a visit to a local art museum for an event AND check out a Rod Stewart impersonator afterwards. Should be interesting!
It seems so basic but I think we all need reminding from time to time. The better your GAL is, the better your PMA and detachment is.
So true! So true!
Now if only it some of this GAL and PMA would rub off on me. Way to go Def.
RAI
RAI,
Thanks for the encouragement. I hope you have a great weekend.
Journaling:
Had a great day yesterday. Work was a breeze. After work, checked out a new exhibit at an art gallery. Afterwards, met up with some friends to see a Rod Stewart impersonator. It was magical!
Throughout the evening, STBX sent pictures of the kids via TM. I didn't respond but I alluded to the pics when I asked to speak with the kids. STBX called as they were driving home from the marine park. The kids weren't too talkative but it was still great to say hello. STBX pretty much filled me in on her day with the kids. I thanked her for taking the kids to do something special. After a few minutes, we said our goodbyes. As usual, I was casual, upbeat, and friendly.
Again, I followed Mr. Bond's advice and posted a few pictures to Instagram. Around 10pm, STBX sent a cute video TM of S1 from the marine park. I didn't reply.
This morning, STBX "likes" both of my pictures on Instagram. One of the pictures was of me with the Rod Stewart impersonator. Later that morning, sends me a financial TM but then immediately follows it with:
"And so cool you met Rod Stewart!!!! Was he cool?!"
I wait about an hour and a half and reply:
"He's a Rod Stewart impersonator :)"
and then I answer the financial question.
She immediately responds about the financial question and then sends:
"He looks just like him!!!"
I don't reply.
Not much here. Just focusing on quality, friendly, non-pursuing interactions. I'm glad I followed Mr. Bond's advice about simply documenting my new, awesome life. Doing so and the resultant positive response has done wonders for my PMA.
I'm looking forward to my weekend with the kiddos. Tonight, D4 and I will do our usual downstairs sleepover that she loves so much. Tomorrow morning, we might meet up with a friend for a play date. In the afternoon, we will head down an hour or so to a great children's museum. Sunday's plans are still undecided between an air boat ride or a trip to a local wildlife park. Either way it will be a blast. And rest assured, the grill will get fired up at least two of the nights.
It will be key for me to stay focused on the kids this weekend as STBX will be out with her friends at the beach, partying, etc. Spending time worrying about her and her plans will hurt my PMA for sure. Just need to keep the positive momentum going and take it one hour at a time.
Her girlfriend is in town but you have the kids. Might be a good time to suggest a casual meet up with the presumption that her girlfriend would want to spend a few minutes and see the kids.
Even a "I could swing by the beach on our way to Butterfly Emporium just to say hi and bring you party supplies like ice or more beer if you need it".
Then if and when you stop by....stay for a bit or not depending on the reception. In other words, if she begs you to stay, stay....otherwise you continue on with your plans. It could be as simple as pulling up and saying "hi" without even parking the car.
If you want to save your marriage you have to have contact with her from time to time or she'll just move on (and so will you).
Don't press it...mention it casually and make no indication of disappointment if she isn't receptive to it.
Def
You sound like you are doing VERY well .. it snice to read and yeah you r GAL is really cranking up your PMA and a result of that has been positive ... that's awesome
I am not so sure with GB' advice .. no offense but that screams pursuit to me and from what I have read it looks like Def tossing some GAL in has W pursuing a touch, she also has been using the kids to keep that line tight ... just my opinion, its a tough dance to pull off I would think Def would know right now if that could be a good move or not.
Your GAL and fun focus w/ kids is great. Keep it up.
I also disagree w/ GA, as that seems like pursuit. Give your W space with her friends, and don't assume that you aren't present in her mind while she is out partying. Post pics of the fun you and kids are having (I wouldn't even send them directly to her, just instagram like you did, or instagram most and send an extra meaningful one to her as a sort of insider, knew you'd really love this one sort of thing).
Your W is texting you pictures & videos of the kids while she has them, and not just once or twice. She is thinking of you while she is with the kids (not just thinking of the kids when she is not with them and otherwise you are out of sight and mind) and sharing things that she knows will please you. You are showing/sharing yourself making the kids very happy when you are with them (given how she is sending stuff to you, she's very likely getting the warm fuzzies seeing that). You've got reciprocation going on. You've got consideration of your happiness going on. You've got evidence that you are in her thoughts quite a bit. I wouldn't mess with that. These are very positive in my book.
Nice GAL lately Defacto, keep up the great work.
I'm not sure about trying to meetup with W and her friends on beach either, seems like too much pursuit.
I would say keep doing what your doing and see how W's actions progress. Keep up with the good PMA around her and showing her the man only a fool would leave.
I would continue to post your GAL stuff. I wouldn't ask W this weekend ... If I were her I would think 'wow I just served him with D papers and he's offering to come by and bring stuff for me' I think it makes you look weak/she can walk all over you. That's not the guy you want to be. Remember what most women are attracted to.
We may say we want someone that will do whatever we want ... I don't really believe we really mean that!
Thanks for all the feedback, gang. Even if I felt it was a good idea to drop in on STBX and her friends, I couldn't have because she was two hours south of me.
Journaling:
Awesome weekend with the kids! I picked up the kids Friday night after work at MIL's house. We grilled steak for dinner (of course). Then D4 and I pigged out on popcorn and snacks while we watched a movie downstairs.
Saturday morning, I drove the kids over to my best friend's house for a play date. After lunch, we enjoyed an awesome discovery and science museum about an hour south. The whole time we were there, D4 kept asking if we could come back. I love taking the kids to do fun stuff like this.
STBX called Saturday night to say hello to the kids. She was friendly, asked about our weekend plans, and seemed to go out of her way to tell two funny stories about D4 saying nice things about me.
Sunday morning, I took kids to a drive thru wildlife park. The kids loved seeing all the animals up close. After the driving portion, we went on the carousel, the Ferris wheel, and played in the splash park. The weather took a turn for the worse after lunch, so we spent the rest of the day indoors playing together and watched a movie. We really did have a blast. I truly cherish the time I get to spend with my two angels.
STBX called again to talk with D4 tonight. D4 told her all about our day together.
In all, I did fairly well keeping my mind focused on me and the kids. I did see a few selfies STBX posted that made me really question who she is these days. I guess one doesn't get a boob job and not show it off, right? I kind of feel sorry for how she needs so much affirmation right now. Of course, I snapped a few pics of me having a blast with the kids over the weekend to throw up on Instagram too.
I've realized that this is my new life now. It's not a life I've freely chosen but I am making the most of it. I'm going to be the best damn dad I can be. I will maintain self respect yet I have not given up on my marriage.
Here's to hoping D4 falls asleep in the next few minutes so I can enjoy True Detective!
Def - I gotta get caught up on true detective myself, don't tell me what happens : )
I'm encouraged to see all your gal and being the best damn dad you can be. In my sitch I sometimes forget that and reading what you've been doing helps to remind me.
You are right. This is our life now and not the one we've chosen. However we have say and control on where we go from here. We have the time to work on us and do things we enjoy for us when we don't have the kids and then have a blast and connect with who we love and care about when we do have the kids.
As much as I want my ww to be a part of that and with me, I know I don't want who she is now and may always be. I miss what I thought our past was and she wants to do everything she can to move on from it.
Gal and pma. Keep it up!
A bummer kind of day. I followed a few rabbit trails that hurt my PMA. Then, my GAL plans got cancelled because of bad weather. When I FaceTimed with the kids, STBX made no attempt to talk or even look at me. Later, she texted me that both of the kids threw up at the dinner table. I had planned to start getting some documents together for the financial affidavit but I think that'll have to wait for another day. Gonna crack a beer, lay on the couch, and watch American Sniper.
There ya go de facto. Life given you lemons, crack open a beer and grab a Clint Eastwood flick!
Journaling:
Tuesday was a much better day than Monday. I made a concerted effort to not think about STBX. I loaded up my phone with upbeat music, stayed busy at work, controlled my thoughts, and focused on my own plans. I went for a hike at lunch, which enabled me to reset and clear my head. While I did think about my sitch on occasion, I didn't really think about STBX specifically.
STBX did text a pic of the kids from the beach in the afternoon and she sent another pic of D4's sunburn around dinner time. I replied to the last TM and used it as a transition to ask to talk with the kids.
STBX FaceTimed me while I was out at dinner with BIL. When I answered the call, D4 asked where I was a couple of times. I just told her that I was out at dinner. I talked with the kids for a few minutes. As always, it makes me so happy to talk with them on a regular basis. I am pleased that STBX and I have a routine for regular interaction with the kids.
Later in the call, STBX asked for the phone to talk with me about some scheduling stuff for this weekend. The conversation wasn't meaningful but we were able to sort out the schedule. Throughout the call, the kids are fighting to talk with me and STBX said that I was clearly the favorite parent right now. I smiled and said that it wasn't true. Of course, it felt good to hear this from her. At the end of the call, STBX told me to have fun. I wished her a good night with the kids.
My sister and BIL came down to visit for the week. My BIL went through a similar sitch as mine in his first MR so we have spent a lot of time talking the past few months. Last night, he and I went out to grab dinner and watch the world cup soccer match. Afterwards, we each enjoyed a glass of whiskey and talked religion. It was a good night.
Today should be super busy at work but I welcome the distraction. Tonight's GAL plans are trivia night, which has turned in to the highlight of the week for myself and some of my friends. I think this might be the week that we take home first prize. Plus, I believe we have finally settled on the all important, ever elusive team name.
Awesome job, Defacto! WED Trivia night? Is it "Geeks who Drink"? I play that pretty regularly. Don't like to brag, but our team took home first 5 weeks in a row . . . : )
Now most of my friends are married with young children, so having to use meet ups to find various trivia nights - always a good time though.
Rip,
Thanks! The trivia company down here is called Think & Drink. This will be just our third week so we haven't hit our stride yet.
As far as GAL partners, most of my friends are married with children too so I have had to do things with some different groups of friends. I wish I still had some single guy friends LOL.
STBX texted me this morning and said that she would like to talk to me about something D4 said last night before bed. I texted her back and said I would call in a bit. When I called, STBX told me that she was talking with D4 last night about being able to confide in her for anything. D4 told her that she has secrets with daddy. STBX was very concerned with this and wanted to talk to me about it. I remained calm and supportive. I recounted a couple of conversations that D4 and I have had in the past few days that could apply to the secrets she was referring to. I then asked to speak with D4 on speakerphone. I told her that she could share any secret with STBX. D4 agreed.
I told STBX that she was right for being concerned and wanting to talk with me about it. I also thanked her for being available for D4 to confide in. We then talked about a few parenting things and said goodbye.
I am pleased with how I handled this call. Of course I am insulted that STBX would even think of me that way. But I can understand a mother's concern and she would be wrong not to follow up. I was calm, soft spoken, and validated STBX's concern. I think this is a big 180 because the old Defacto would have become very agitated and defensive at the mere implication of such a thing. However, I was able to see STBX's perspective and casually address her concerns.
How sad for D4.
It could be just typical competitive female thoughts and feelings in D4 that, like many very young girls, cause them to actually compete with their mothers for the love and attention of dad; however, with you two not being together right now, "competing" doesn't seem likely (but who knows with a 4 year old). I'd surmise that your daughter was more likely trying to make your wife jealous and manipulate your wife to get back together with you. It may be an indication that as good as you are trying to make things, your D4 is still feeling overwhelmed by her parent's conflict and trying to fix it, yet she's completely and obviously ill equipped to do so. Your DD4 could also be very perceptive and noticing your modified behavior around mom and projecting (taking on your emotions and carrying your torch). This could be the case especially if she's been listening to you speak to others about your fight for your marriage.
You may want to discuss this with your daughter very briefly. Probably not in relation to her saying anything about "secrets" to mommy. You don't need to call her out or expose her plans but a gentle reminder that she is not responsible for the problems you and mommy are having and that she's not responsible for fixing it either.
Children are narcissists. Everything happening around them relates to them. I know you've been a superbly supportive and attentive father lately but your wife is wayward and most likely failing as the great mother she's been up until this year. Your wife is probably a bit short tempered and inattentive. Distracted by her selfish desires and the typical wayward "it's time I think all about me for a change". Be careful not to speak for your wife because you don't REALLY know what life is like for your dd4 when she's alone with mom. DD4 just needs to know it's not about her. She didn't do anything to cause this and she isn't responsible for fixing it.
btw. If you actually do end up divorced. Your DD4 and you will have secrets because your life, to a large extent, would become none of your ex-wife's business. Just focus on your one-on-one relationship with DD4 and let your wife manage hers.
GB,
This is great advice. When the time is right this weekend, I'll have a quick conversation with D4 like you suggested.
Journaling:
STBX dropped off the kids tonight. This was the first time I've seen her in person since last Monday. I went outside to meet them. STBX made a comment about me wearing cool shorts and cool shoes. I kind of laugh and jokingly say that "I guess I'm just a cool dude."
It was a fairly quick exchange. As we began to say goodbye I told her that my sister and her husband were coming over tonight for dinner to see the kids. She briefly asked about their visit and then we exchanged goodbyes.
My sister and her husband came over for dinner. It was a great time together and it was good for them to spend some time with the kids. Plus, I could tell the kids enjoyed it as well.
Been a good couple of days. Knock on wood. Hope it stays that way for a few more.
Cheers Defacto, looks like a bit of a positive streak!
Take them where you can get them.
PP
Another good day in the books. Work was slow and uneventful. They cut me loose early because of the holiday. When I got home, the kids and I headed over to the flower store (Home Depot) for some more patio plants. D4 has been asking to do this for days. Then, we planted the flowers and ate dinner. As I was finishing up their baths, STBX called.
I immediately put D4 on the phone but I had to guide the conversation because she wasn't very talkative. After a few minutes, STBX asked if she could talk with me.
STBX just vented about her mom asking for money to help watch the kids and just overall frustration with living with her parents. I just listened and validated where applicable. She mentioned more than once how she just needs to get her own place, etc. I told her I can imagine how frustrating her living situation is but inside I chuckled at the irony of it all. I asked what I owed for her my portion of her mom's childcare services. Later on, she told me she's trying to change her work shift and floor, etc. We said our goodbyes and wished each other a good night.
I was calm, soft spoken, and mainly just listened. I did tell her a funny story about her dad trying to make a Slurpee for the kids at my house today. There were some awkward silences on the call because I was trying not to pursue. I also found it odd that she called me by my first name a handful of times. I might be wrong, but it seems like it has been a while since she did this.
Anyway, time to get started on setting up the "tent" downstairs for D4 and I's weekly movie night and sleep over.
I work tomorrow but I'm excited to take the kids to see the "big" fireworks when I get home.
I hope everyone has a great holiday weekend.
Sounds like a very, very good day.
I hope you enjoy your sleep over w/ your D. Great fun to be able to be a kid again, even if it is only for a few hours out of a busy, stressful adult life.
Asitis,
Thanks for the support! Hope you had a great holiday.
Journaling:
Yesterday was a very slow day at work, as expected. I couldn't wait to get home to see the kiddos. I made small talk with MIL when I got home. Then I showed D4 and MIL the clothes I picked up for the kids while on my lunch break.
After I made dinner, the kids and I headed over to meet up with some friends at the local July 4th event. The kids had a blast running around the golf course, eating ice cream, and watching the fireworks. I held my kids close as they stated in awe up at the sky. I loved it as much as they did.
STBX didn't call but she did text to see how the kids enjoyed the fireworks. I replied that they loved it.
Her response:
"Awwww pics?"
"Sure. Here's a couple..."
(I sent four pics, two of which included me)
"Awww!!!!!! Those are beautiful!!!! I wish I was with you guys!"
I didn't reply to her last TM.
I also posted a different picture of the kids and I to Instagram last night. This morning STBX "liked" it and commented "I love this!!!!"
Anyway, trying not to read too much into STBX's enthusiastic response to the pictures from last night. But it does feel good to know that she misses being together with the kids sometimes.
Not sure what today will bring. I'm kind of tired from a six day work week. Might just lay low with the kids until I drop them off to STBX this afternoon. However, I definitely plan on watching the World Cup final tonight with some friends.
Definitely an up and down day so far.
STBX called this morning. I answered and immediately put kids on speakerphone. They talked for a while with D4 told her about us planting flowers the other night. I started to say goodbye and asked if I could drop off kids at 3pm. In response, STBX commented that I didn't have the kids much this weekend because I had to work yesterday. She asked if I had plans and I told her that I did but later that evening. I told her I would love to have the kids for a bit longer and agreed to drop the kids off at 5pm instead.
I felt like this was a bit odd because I normally drop the kids off around 3 but I know that STBX has had some disagreements with MIL recently, so whatever. I will make the most of it.
Still had no concrete plans with the kids for the day at this point. I decided to grab a quick breakfast and take the kids to an indoor playground for the morning. We were there for around three hours and we were having a blast. Unfortunately, D4 was running with a toy and injured herself. The toy poked her on the roof of her mouth and she was bleeding.
After we left the indoor playground, I decided it was best to call STBX to notify her of the injury to D4 and to get her nursing perspective. STBX wanted to see the injury in person so we decided to meet in the parking lot of a grocery store.
When she got there, I thought it odd that she had her make up on as she would usually be sleeping after work but I didn't think about this for long. STBX appeared agitated as any parent would be if their child was injured while under the watch of the other parent. STBX takes a picture of D4's injury and tells me she is going to send it to a doctor friend. Well, guess who she sent it to? Anybody? The OM of course. Then, she proceeds to call him to talk about the picture she just sent him. Her greeting to OM didn't sound like they hadn't spoken to each other in ages either.
I decided to move to the other side of the car and spent time with S1 while she was on the phone. I wasn't about to just stand there next to her while she talked with OM. But I also didn't think it appropriate to address this based on the present situation. I ignored it, kept a PMA, and we all went into the grocery store to get some medicine and popsicles for D4.
I was holding D4 and just doing things to keep her spirits high.
We headed to our cars and I said that I would keep the kids until 5pm like originally planned. STBX did not protest. We loaded the kids in my car and gave them both popsicles.
STBX points out the blood on my shirt and sympathizes with me that I had to deal with everything with the injury. Surprisingly, she gives me a hug and thanks for being such a good dad.
The most important thing is D4 will be fine. STBX will take her to the pediatrician in the morning just to make sure. It's a bummer that D4 got injured and it doesn't make me feel any better that she texted/called OM because of it. And to top it all off, she might have already had plans to go see him anyway (asking me to keep kids later, already having makeup on).
Oh well, nothing I can do about it. Just need to continue being a rock star dad and keeping that PMA up by GAL'ing.
I feel for you man. I was served papers on the 6/19/15 as well. If you don't mind me asking, what is you plan going forward with the divorce? Do you have an attorney? Do you plan to drag things out in hopes of your W coming to reality?
Sounds like you had a great couple days.
I would consider taking D4 to a clinic to have the wound looked out. Your W's taking a picture and then wanting to take D4 to doctor tomorrow sets off some warning lights in me. It didn't help that she talked to OM and they was so nice to you. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'd want to show that you took care of this rather than having your W do that side.
What am I paranoid about, in many places one of the only reasons that the court will not award joint custody is that one parent has been shown to be unfit. I hope I'm wrong, and suspect I am, but I'd want to make sure that you have taken care of this so the W can't build a case that either (1) your neglect lead to this injury; and (2) that you weren't responsible enough to have it seen to in a a responsible manner, but she did. By itself, it wouldn't be a big deal, but if she starts doing things to twist such events, it becomes more of a big deal.
Lousy thing to waste your time on, but often the urgent care clinics are fairly fast in and out. You know your W better than us, but just food for thought.
Asitis,
Totally see your point and I appreciate your good natured paranoia. I never considered that angle in the heat of the moment. That's exactly why this forum is so important, a fresh and objective perspective.
I would find it hard to believe that the court would find me at fault for neglect when I called a nurse after the injury. It just happens this nurse is also D4's mother. STBX met with me and decided it was ok to wait for treatment. If anything, she would be complicit in the neglect, especially if she was off to see OM.
Either way, it's all academic. I'm dropping the kids off with STBX in 45 minutes.
Just write it up in a private journal while it is fresh in your mind. You don't know how she will spin it, with the only documentary evidence being a physicians visit. Then put it aside, as it sounds like I was just being overly paranoid (still why take a picture?).
Cheers.
I feel for you man. I was served papers on the 6/19/15 as well. If you don't mind me asking, what is you plan going forward with the divorce? Do you have an attorney? Do you plan to drag things out in hopes of your W coming to reality?
I wish we were linked for some other reason LOL.
Yes, I have a L. I've told L that I would like to drag out the process in hopes of reconciliation.
I'm so tired of STBX's lies. I push back my child drop off because STBX guilts me in to spending more time with the kids. I'm so thankful I got that time. However, I pull up to MIL's house and STBX isn't even there. She wanted me to keep the kids longer so her mom wouldn't have to watch them while she was out doing whatever.
To make matters worse, as I'm leaving, D4 comes running after me, crying and screaming, asking me not to leave. I held her and kissed her for ten minutes but she wouldn't let go. I looked over and saw FIL with tears in his eyes. MIL had to pry D4 out of my arms so I could leave. It took every ounce of my being to keep from breaking out in tears.
I'm devastated.
Then STBX calls. I answer because I think she might have some news about D4. Instead, she calls to thank me for being so good with D4. She knows something is wrong and asks if I'm mad at her. I say no and tell her about D4's meltdown. She proceeds to ask me if I blame her for this.
STBX starts to say how she has questioned this process many times and she has tried to call and talk to me about changing course. I ask her why she has had doubts. But then she turns on the spew and blames me for slandering her to all of her friends and making it uncomfortable for her at work. "This is on you." Etcetera etcetera.
I try my best to validate but she is only interested in shifting all the blame to me. I try to cordially end the call. I just don't have any more energy to listen to it anymore. I ask for her to take care of D4 because she has had a tough day.
Aargh. This day has went from bad to worse in a hurry.
I'm sorry about D4. I've been there. And there is not fun. It [censored].
It sounds like you did well on the phone. What do you think? When she starts the spew, I suggest you have a predefined response to say right back to her. This response should be direct clear and should break the conversation in its tracks.
Defacro. Stay the present course. Your wife is still initiating contact with you and whether it's positive or spew, it's still emotion because she cares. Mine is indifferent and with om. So, really not much hope for me on that front.
Hang in there, keep the pma and gal. You've come so far already!
Sorry Defacto,
It's hard to watch the kids suffer, but she could have had that reaction if you and your W were dropping her off at your iLs for a date. So, don't read too much into it. Your iLs are clearly troubled by the pain your D4s is going through and they know who is walking away from the M.
You did well w/ your W. Keep doing what you are doing. Her spew doesn't mean that she's not considering moving back toward you, so don't read into it. For instance, it could be that she's been thinking this and it scares her to feel this way. Or she could be ashamed of what she has done and is dodging the pain of that by acting out against you. If it allows her to take that step weather the storm as you did. If it was genuine spew, then it just means that she's not ready yet.
You've been doing the right things. Things aren't deteriorating, and may be thawing a bit, despite the spewfest.
Keep going forward. Children are resilient. Ds hurt them for sure, but you are doing everything to change that future, and you are in a lot better place to be there for her no matter which way the M turns.
Just write it up in a private journal while it is fresh in your mind.
This is great advice. I did it.
When she starts the spew, I suggest you have a predefined response to say right back to her. This response should be direct clear and should break the conversation in its tracks.
This is also great advice. I don't currently have a predefined response. Any suggestions or examples?
Hang in there, keep the pma and gal. You've come so far already!
Thanks Rip. You're right, I have come a long way so far. I've come too far to give up now.
You did well w/ your W. Keep doing what you are doing. Her spew doesn't mean that she's not considering moving back toward you, so don't read into it. For instance, it could be that she's been thinking this and it scares her to feel this way. Or she could be ashamed of what she has done and is dodging the pain of that by acting out against you. If it allows her to take that step weather the storm as you did. If it was genuine spew, then it just means that she's not ready yet.
You've been doing the right things. Things aren't deteriorating, and may be thawing a bit, despite the spewfest.
I think you're right. Not to mindread, but I think STBX is conflicted. She's definitely not ready and I just need to stay the course.
Journaling:
After getting off phone with STBX last night, I headed over to a friend's house to hang and watch the World Cup final. We fired up the grill and enjoyed a few beers. Afterwards, we watched True Detective. Full disclosure, there was a girl there that I kind of flirted with off and on. She sat next to me on the couch while we watched TV. There is nothing there but it felt good and weird all at the same just to engage and be interested in anyone besides STBX. Don't worry, I don't plan on pursuing any romantic relationships at this time.
At halftime of the soccer match, I FaceTimed with D4 and S1. It was good to talk with both of them and it appeared that D4 had recovered from her earlier meltdown. STBX were cordial towards each other in our limited dialogue.
This morning, I woke up in the funk and realized that I never really had adequate time to decompress from the maelstrom that was Sunday. I decided to take a mental health day from work. It will do me some good to run some errands, straighten up the house, and I even called the plumber to take care of an issue I had been putting off for years. I also need to start getting all the documents together for the financial affidavit, etc.
I haven't heard from STBX about D4's appointment yet but I don't plan on taking any of her calls today, unless it is an emergency. I'm sure she will send a TM with an update when she has one. Either way, I can ask about D4's appointment when I talk with the kids in the evening.
STBX starts to say how she has questioned this process many times and she has tried to call and talk to me about changing course. I ask her why she has had doubts. But then she turns on the spew and blames me for slandering her to all of her friends and making it uncomfortable for her at work. "This is on you." Etcetera etcetera.
I try my best to validate but she is only interested in shifting all the blame to me. I try to cordially end the call. I just don't have any more energy to listen to it anymore. I ask for her to take care of D4 because she has had a tough day.
Aargh. This day has went from bad to worse in a hurry.
I still think you have missed and keep missing opportunities and it's frustrating to me to watch you miss this under the banner of detaching.
Detaching, to me, means this "spew" won't/shouldn't really bother you anymore, not that you give her the silent treatment when she starts talking about your relationship. Your wife has months and months of rationalizations and justifications built up in her mind that she needs to work through before she can get to a place of being ready to accept responsibility for her choices. So what if she blames you and etc, etc, etc. Her words are only expressing her illogical "feelings" on the subject because taking full responsibility is just too hard to do at this moment. You are a logical thinker. She isn't. All you have to do is listen. You will get a lot of credit LATER for just listening to her say whatever mean thing she chooses to discuss with you. Half the time they don't even remember half the hateful stuff they say. They are just reaching for whatever they can, like a child, to make everything someone else's fault. She can blame you all she wants but your logic should be telling you "I'm rubber and she's glue, whatever she says to me, bounces off and sticks her".
Point is. Of course she's not ready. She's lost. She's not going to stumble upon the right words and give you assurances of anything. Even if she said "the right words" you'd be a fool to believe them YET anyway. As Michele Wiener Davis says "The general rule of thumb here is to be responsive to your partners new interest, but not too responsive." Whereas you are being almost completely NON-responsive. You asked one question and she started spewing and you demonstrated your conflict avoiding/emotionally unresponsive stance by evading, getting off the phone ASAP and, now, giving her the silent treatment.
I suggest you apologize to her for skipping out on the conversation and tell her, as she's aware, that you are a conflict avoider. Tell her that if you two are going to figure anything out it's going to involve some conflict and you aren't afraid of being emotionally vulnerable. Then ask her casually if she'd like to meet you somewhere specific (a restaurant or park) "to talk" sometime this week OR NOT. You'd be approaching this as essentially saying that YOU are doing her a favor and finally willing to talk to her...if she wants.
Please see that her first big objection above was "I TRIED to talk you to". This is now her most current rationalization and justification. SHE has tried and you aren't communicative so it's again, your fault. By generally offering to talk...you take that away.
NOW...if she ACCEPTS talking. Go back to your MWD LRT techniques. Meet with her but HAVE FUN. Be more GAL than serious. When it gets serious....JUST LISTEN. I prefer to say "tend to agree" versus "validate" because validation of wayward spew is just so hard to do sometimes where it's easier to NOT buy it, let it fly past you and say "Hmmmmm, I see", while seeming to nod your head up and down followed by a poignant or misdirecting question instead of a "validating" statement. It's not your job to "validate" spew and a wayward doesn't need you to say "yeah, you're right, it's all my fault". They don't REALLY believe half the stuff they say themselves. Anyway, heres the LRT suggestions"
1. Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.
2 Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.
3. Do not ask any questions about your future together.
4. Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.
5. Continue to be upbeat.
6. Do not say, "I love you"
7. Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.
8. Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.
You need to stay interested, but cool, until you are absolutely convinced that your spouse's renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold. Once you feel absolutely sure that this is so, you can test the waters by becoming more obvious about your desire to stay together. You can try discussing your future together and see what happens. If your spouse is receptive, you can continue to move forward slowly and begin to tackle the issues that drove you apart in the first place. If, on the other hand, you're met with reluctance, backpedal just as quickly as you can. Resume your interested but distant stance until things move in a more positive direction. This might take a whole lot longer that you would like, weeks, even months. However, you must be patient. As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it's okay for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? Be patient.
I certainly expect some detractors to come behind me telling you to stay the course you are seemingly already on. Keeping your distance and making her chase you. They care about you just as I do and want to protect you from further emotional pain but you've had a window of opportunity here to save the mother of your children from making the biggest mistake of her life for awhile now. I'm estimating that she's just about done "pursuing" you (way wards think THEY are the prize...she just had some big shot Doctor chasing her so she FEELS like she's the deal right now). I KNOW it's wholly inadequate. I know she's still thinking and saying very hurtful things right now. But detaching enough so you can get in there and hack the spew while BEING the cocky arrogant man who knows he's the best man in the world for her and she'd be a fool not to reciprocate eventually is the best way to go. On behalf of your daughter/children that you DO love more than life itself I urge you to TRY to win over your wife's cold heart by being a resilient confident man who's not afraid of a little conflict and complaining.
Turn your FEAR into FAITH. You can be her hero and save her...if YOU choose to be. Sure she can reject it but she'll never be able to tell anyone you didn't try or you gave up on her and your family.
GB,
I appreciate your response. And to be honest, even though it's only been a short time in my journey, I have questioned "doing nothing" in regards to saving my family. Now, of course, I haven't been doing nothing behind the scenes. I have been a rock solid father, GAL'ing as much as I can, and rediscovering my confidence. Yet, STBX did make some comments yesterday that troubled me.
One, she said that she did try calling in the past to express her interest in changing our present course. I don't know what this meant but it made me wonder.
Two, she said that she used to miss me a bunch but now she is just accepting everything as it is. GB, this would give credence to your theory that my window of opportunity is passing.
But, I'm torn just because her actions are pretty undeniably opposed to reconciliation.
Just thinking out loud here... I could call tonight around the regular time I call to say hello to the kids and say that I was in the area and would love to say hi to the kids in person, especially after D4's meltdown yesterday. Then, if things seem positive with STBX, I could ask her if she wants to grab a coffee and finish our conversation from yesterday.
Thoughts?
New Thread time Def .... I am just reading and catchin up on your Sitch.
The kid stuff is so darn tough .... I do not have much to add or tell you .. I can see GB's line of thought and reasoning, this DB dance is a delicate and tricky one, I do think deep down you just need to trust and figure out what to do and when .. timing does seem to be a huge factor in all this, catching the WW in a good time and place does help.