I decided to take charge this morning - scheduled a strategy session for the business at an open work space incubator in town, and I am pretty sure I was in command... at least at the beginning. My being in command is something that used to turn her on, so I did my best. I kept my glasses off unless I needed to read something (my habit of wearing them on the end of my nose is one of her complaints!), I dressed well, and best of all, I was standing by the whiteboard on the wall while she was sitting - reminding her no doubt of my "power days" as a school principal. Definitely created a perceived power differential... and she was looking down, lost, sad about things. Now, this didn't last the whole time... eventually I sat down, and she wanted to go off in a different direction about my making money some other way. But I got things back on topic, drove the car, just generally did all I could to seem confident and in control.
On the way back home, she got all stressed about money again. She wanted to talk about getting the boys moved out, and how we are going to handle things as "roommates" instead of partners with mixed income moving forward. This put a knot in my stomach, anything she says that indicates her desire to separate further does. But I played it cool, said we'd get to those discussions this week. She made a suggestion about an income opportunity she thinks I should pursue, and instead of validating her comment somehow, I countered with a reason why it wasn't viable. So things got a little tense in the car. I need to generate income outside of our business that isn't generating income. I like to think that kind of value will reorient her perception of me. But who knows. Right now, my perception of her isn't so great either.
I wanted to just drop her off and head back out, but I needed to do work on the big computer, so we are in each other's space this afternoon. She has no opportunity to see the OW today, since it's our son's birthday and we have plans. But I know she will be showing her houses tomorrow, probably followed by dinner with her. She's got a big BBQ with the OW and her friends on Saturday. I don't know about Sunday, other than an open house she's hosting. I am making my GAL plans for the weekend, but still. It gets tougher in lots of different ways.
She repulses me as she is now, but I love her so much. It just feels like things are hopeless between us, and that's something I find just so hard to believe.
First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2569064#Post2569064
Yesterday afternoon, the W had all these tasks she wanted to accomplish before the end of the day. She started working on them with her usual tenacity, while I worked on some other things for the business, when the doorbell rang. She'd arranged for, she thought, some guy to come test the house water for maybe half an hour. Turns out he was a water filtration salesman who was there for over two and a half hours demonstrating and doing his dog and pony show! We both stood there for a few minutes, after which she said, "Hon, you don't have to be here." But she was stuck.
By the time she came to the office, she was in a frenzy. "I can't get to the post office in time... need to distribute these cards..." this, that, and the other thing. "What time are we doing James's birthday dinner? I need to get to the gym..." Complete stress and panic mode, which of course is nothing new.
So I stepped in to calm the waters... took all the mail, the checks for the bank, the cards that had to be distributed... just took a bunch of things off her plate and told her to get to the gym, we'd do dinner around 6:30 or 7. I had to meet a friend (who'd also recently been dumped) for drinks at 5 anyway, so it all worked out.
As my friend and I had this wonderfully empathetic conversation at the pub, my phone died. W thought, for some reason, that we'd start our party at 5:30. I didn't return till 6:15. She texted, called, freaked out... even went driving in the neighborhood where I was supposed to be distributing the cards. But I had no idea because my phone was dead.
When I got home, she wasn't there. I thought she was at the gym, so I started in the kitchen. When she came in, she was all over me... "I was worried, why didn't you answer when I called, I know you see my name and you don't want to pick up the phone, but I thought maybe you got arrested or someone hurt you..." it was just nuts.
But the rest of the evening was pleasant enough... had a nice dinner, she sat next to me on the loveseat outside, I was weak enough to allow her to slide her foot under my leg and, at one point, grab my face, kiss me and squeeze me, and tell me how cute I was. I got terrible news before the night was over about a friend's son having committed suicide, so she was sort of compassionate about that. I made the mistake of telling her that if her back hurt, she could come to bed, just for the night. She declined... which was the right move, but I shouldn't have offered.
I'm looking at a weekend she has filled with plans, so I'm working on filling the weekend with my own. I have to say, I wish I saw more success stories on this board. It's great to have the support of people who are going through the same stuff, but I'd love to see a few more breakthroughs.
Dif - I think mozza has a thread somewhere with links to success stories that's not too buried. You should look for that. They can be inspirational at times when it feels like hope is lost. No matter how bleak your S feels, people HAVE recovered from worse to save marriages!
Also, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Wishing you a better day today.
Thanks Matt. I know... she's living a fantasy romance with this woman right now. Everything associated with her is roses, everything that's routine or stressful is associated with me. I have to believe that once the dopamine wears off, and once we get out from under this startup business stress, she will be able to see more clearly that the one who slogs through the tough stuff is the one who's really more attractive.
At least that's my hope.
Really have to step up my GAL this weekend. She has dinner plans with OW tonight, a BBQ party tomorrow night, and a visit to a nearby town for a "stroll and dinner" on Sunday. So tonight I'm meeting another recently dumped friend for a few beers, tomorrow I'm going to a concert with another new friend not far removed from a breakup, and I'll probably have gin and dinner with my best friends on Sunday. It's exhausting, kind of, when you tend to prefer to just stay home and have a quiet night with your spouse, which has been our MO for years.
I don't know if I'm projecting, but I have a sense the OW might be coming on too strong, maybe overwhelming my W. But I am trying not to think about her, or them. Just focus on me.
Sorry for all these posts. This is my best sounding board.
Diff,
I liked how you took charge of the business meeting. Way to go!
Arrgh, that leg move and invitation to your MBR. Not good. No worries. Just a minor slip up.
Yeah...GAL is the way to happiness and detachment.
I know, Wonka. Detachment. Right now, I am fighting the urge to text her something snarky. She said the other day she doesn't have a cold heart, that she's trying to be "compassionate" and "help" me through this. Today, as she informed me she wouldn't be home for dinner because she has plans for dinner, she followed up with, "We have leftovers in the fridge, right?"
Textbook definition of cold, right there.
(Not that I'll be eating leftovers. I have some GAL plans.)
Knowing me...I would have said, "You want some leftovers?!"
HAHA, Wonka! As for me, I gave in! Couldn't help it. I texted her, "Nope, no leftovers here. Maybe you can bring me back something." And she actually wrote back, "I'm sorry, I'll be late... can you order a pizza?"
Omg... these people... what aliens take over their brains???
Ok...she didn't REALLY say that, right?
My W hasn't said anything like that, but it certainly does feel like an alien is controlling her brain sometimes. So I like to think I'm letting an alien take over my brain too. 180s all over the place - I'm trying to keep W off balance by making personal changes. Of course, my alien is super rational and is trying to HELP me.
Mine too. Until I can't help but text things like that to her.
The thing is, I know the OW. I KNOW she isn't right for her in a million ways, except one, maybe two. One is temporary... she is completely stoking an ego that can't stand not to be stoked, and that an "old hat" like me simply cannot stoke. That will wear off in a few months. But...
She's completely financially stable, and if that's what my W is looking for because the lack of quick enough progress in our business precipitated all this, she will overlook the old, lonely, even dare I say ugly, needy woman who saw an opportunity to take advantage of a younger, vulnerable woman. My W will overlook the dirty house (she's her realtor, she knows EXACTLY how dirty it is), the many pets (she hates animals), the constant smothering plans... etc, etc. Honestly, I could lose her to a bank account.
And if I do? She wasn't ever right for me anyway. Who wants a partner with such a lack of depth?
But still... I never knew this would really be her. I don't believe this IS her.
One of her complaints is that I had "let myself go." Well... since the BD just under a month ago, I have dropped 20 of the 30 pounds I needed to lose (from a diet of green smoothies and wine, about all I can handle, and a renewed commitment to the gym), and she sure has noticed. It was clear today when she was looking at me. It's impossible not to. It was a good point, to be honest. I'm a health coach, for godsakes. I should never have gotten so complacent.
I need to get the other stuff in order, of course. But it's still a very long haul. I miss my W, but to be honest, I don't know where she is right now. This woman? She is someone else entirely.
HAHA, Wonka! As for me, I gave in! Couldn't help it. I texted her, "Nope, no leftovers here. Maybe you can bring me back something." And she actually wrote back, "I'm sorry, I'll be late... can you order a pizza?"
Nooo...I am like OMG at YOU! Did you really say that?? Hoping W would bring back something for you? Goodness gracious.
I wouldn't be that lonely and needy person. I'd be like...m'k, I am off and will take are of myself.
C'mon...you are not a 12-year old kid. You are a strong and independent woman who can forage for her own food.
I recall when my W was in the twilight of the A I got this: "My therapist told me that I am just so far ahead of you in all this, I have ended the M, healed and moved on with my life and it just will take you some time"
That was a goldie moment....lol
Pretty sure it was a passive-aggressive joke Wonka. Maybe WW thought she was joking back...?
Cali - on BD, my wife kept saying that we were both unhappy and that Id be "so much happier without her". So I showed her yesterday at MC how happy I can be without her. You should have heard her choke on "this is what I said would happen. I'm happy for you."
Pretty sure it was a passive-aggressive joke Wonka. Maybe WW thought she was joking back...?
Cali - on BD, my wife kept saying that we were both unhappy and that Id be "so much happier without her". So I showed her yesterday at MC how happy I can be without her. You should have heard her choke on "this is what I said would happen. I'm happy for you."
Oh I have had a few of these 'gems' ... its amazing how insensitive they are during the whole thing ... I am not at the point I can bring these up ... more than half the stuff she does not recall... but yeah I think in their minds they have it all worked out then slowly the house starts to crumble.
Noooo, Wonka. It was a joke. A bad one, but a joke. I didn't want her to bring anything back. In fact, I thought it would be patently obvious I wouldn't want her to because I can and always have taken care of myself. I wrote back that I was joking, and that her leftover comment... and also her pizza comment... was the epitome of the cold heart she claimed not to have.
Not that I should have engaged her. But trust me... no. NOT that needy. I was egging her on...
Gotta love those therapists...
Yes, Matt... passive aggressive joke on my part. Ill-advised. My partner? It wasn't a joke back. She's too literal.
I am still learning the "I'd be happier without you" approach. Right now, I'm miserable with her, and miserable without her. Unless I'm with someone else. Had drinks with a good friend this evening, watching TV tonight with my son. Since she'll be "late," I guess we'll address the pizza comments tomorrow. (I had half a sandwich. Not eating much these days.)
Yes. In their minds, they have a whole new life planned out. She is soooo insensitive. I asked my son tonight, "have I missed this our whole relationship? Or is this new and crazy behavior?" He says he never saw it, either. That's my hope right now. That's she's temporarily insane.
Yes. In their minds, they have a whole new life planned out. She is soooo insensitive. I asked my son tonight, "have I missed this our whole relationship? Or is this new and crazy behavior?" He says he never saw it, either. That's my hope right now. That's she's temporarily insane.
Hello DifRent,
Wow, I can feel your pain. I have been looking in on your situation every now and then, and have finally caught up. You're right, they have a whole new life planned out. What they don't realize is that they are really running from themselves.
I will dedicate a prayer to you right after I submit this post.
Hang tough...I know you can make it thru this.
Bob
Hey DifRent -
I can relate to the Alien takeover of your W. My WW is just as whacky. Occasionally my W makes an appearance but it doesn't last long.
The WW has strong emotional motivation to continue down her path. The only thing you can do it let her go. I would not run her errands or take work off her plate that may be categorized as weak.
Tough love is tough but Sandi2 has great perspective on this in her threads. The response you got from not being available for a short period should confirm why you should be more unavailable.
Glad to see your no longer sharing a bed! Keep it up, it does get easier.
Bob, thanks for your prayers. I need them.
She came home late enough last night that I'm pretty sure they slept together for the first time. It's a sickening feeling this morning. W has been working overtime to find a new house for OW, since hers sold so quickly... so it's not really "work." It's part of the plan they are mapping out for their future.
I am also realizing, with an increasing sense of dread, that this OW has financial resources that I do not have and will never have. Financial stability is very important to my W, and I can see her plowing ahead with this relationship fullsteam in spite of everything that is wrong with it, just for that benefit.
With that, I cannot compete, no matter how much I improve myself.
Some very dark days here. Thanks for all the support.
I really don't have much to add. It's been easier on me lately to just assume that my W is having but we've been living apart for over a month. With such limited contact right now, it's not as difficult to live my life as I want to.
Wishing you strength enough to realize what you can't control. A lot of the worry and trouble you have up ^^^ is totally out of your hands. I'm sure some vets will be able to give better advice than I can. But keep your chin up and really take this time for self-reflection and self- improvement.
As long as your worried about what she's doing your not focused on what you should be doing.
This is not a competition my friend. This is your moment in the sun, so shine.
Baby steps...backslide...baby steps. I know this dance well.
You got this!
Thanks guys. If we were living apart, it would be easier. But for now, it's very challenging. I am sitting on the front porch and she just came out with her coffee whistling and on her dopamine high, saying good morning, asking me what I did last night. It's really, really hard to stomach this... we've had so many cups of coffee out here over the years, and not once did she have to ask me what I had done the night before.
I'll get through this. It's just so hard, and I'm having a really hard time even imagining reconciliation at this point. (I know I'm preaching to the choir...)
Thanks guys. If we were living apart, it would be easier. But for now, it's very challenging. I am sitting on the front porch and she just came out with her coffee whistling and on her dopamine high, saying good morning, asking me what I did last night. It's really, really hard to stomach this... we've had so many cups of coffee out here over the years, and not once did she have to ask me what I had done the night before.
I'll get through this. It's just so hard, and I'm having a really hard time even imagining reconciliation at this point. (I know I'm preaching to the choir...)
Preach on! Just remember that you don't have to picture it right now. She doesn't want to R right now, so there's nothing to picture. In either case, whether you at or not, the steps are the same. Set your boundaries to protect yourself then carry on with what you know you need to do. You can do it!
Dif -
Those little moments really caused me to backslide. The moments that always came so easy in the past served as comfort to me during the dark days of this journey.
I thought if I allowed those moments to happen, like they had naturally for years, that she would see the light and come back.
The problem is my WW no longer looked at me the same way and it was just a trap to keep me close enough for her to be friends.
I'm not suggesting you be cold or rude but its time you set some basic boundaries for yourself. If she joins you for a cup of coffee on the porch, simply excuse yourself.
Imaging reconciliation is an expectation so its good that your letting it go.
Find your happy place and go there often.
It's always darkest before the dawn Dif. As cliche as it sounds, people haven't been saying it for decades because it's not true.
Your W may find solace in the financial aspects of the OW, but that will be short lived. Think big picture no matter how big that is and scary to imagine.
Please take good care of yourself this weekend and I agree with Max, find your happy place and do whatever it takes to spend some time there.
I met with a friend for drinks the other night, and she has a bomb drop story similar to mine. (Wish she lived closer, she was just passing through town.) She said something that resonated with me... she felt like she had "lost herself" in the relationship with her partner. And in a lot of ways, I've done the same. Lost my passion for a career or pursuits independent of her business and time. We have literally spent the last nine months together 24/7, and it's all been about work. We lost our relationship, we lost each other, we lost ourselves.
I know I need to get back to who I am, what I love, what makes me tick. Not even sure what those things are right now, though. At the moment, I feel like an empty shell - I didn't before the bomb drop, but looking back now, I see I gave up way too much just so we could build this business and live the life we wanted to live AFTER it was strong. Foolishness...
She said this morning that we are going to have to figure out how to amicably live together for as long as we live together. I also don't want to be cold or rude - detached, yes. And cordial. But yeah... when she came outside and sat down beside me the morning after sex with her lover, I probably should have just gone back in the house.
I officially don't have any plans till this evening. She left for her open house and said she'd be home around 2pm and was leaving for her BBQ at 5pm... if I wanted to "talk or anything." I need to step up the GAL!
So far today, I've done a great job of pretending I have a life, but not really having one. Some friends left for the beach this weekend and made their home available to me. So I went over for a while to enjoy the nontoxic environment, intending to read. But I couldn't concentrate. All I could do was sit in a chair and be as pathetic there as I would have been here. It's just that she didn't see me.
On the way, though, I stopped at her open house. This wasn't to pursue, but to throw her off guard, as she would not be expecting me. I went in, she was surprised but not unhappy. I asked how it was going, that's about it, didn't stay long. I'm back home now and the house is empty... she's at the gym, she says. The boys are out. Saturdays used to be so much more pleasant, content, joyful. Right now, all I want to do is sleep and hope that when I wake up, this nightmare is over.
Instead, I think I'll clean the house.
Bob, thanks for your prayers. I need them.
With that, I cannot compete, no matter how much I improve myself.
DifRent,
You're welcome, any way I can help! I am not one of the vets on this forum but I have to respectfully disagree with your statement above. If you truly do all you can to improve yourself and try to emotionally detach, your W will see a different DifRent (sorry for the pun, hope it brought a
to your face).
When our partner sees positive, lasting changes in us, there is
hope that the M can be saved.
Think positive thoughts and you may discover things can turn around.
Take care.
Bob
As much as I try to detach, she roped me into yet another conversation. She wants to keep assuring me of the finality of things, in a "compassionate" way. That if we're going to live together, we can't live with this stress (i.e. my detachment). I told her she's delusional if she thinks I should just be okay with her going out to a BBQ with her new girlfriend, but go, have a great time.
Why did I feel compelled to tell her she's delusional? She's too delusional to acknowledge it!
I'm off to church and the brewery. That's my GAL for the night.
Well, at least you're not delusional - you realise that she's too delusional to recognise that she is indeed delusional!
It's true that your wisdom is unlikely to be heard or welcomed at this juncture, so it's great that you're heading off the church and the brewery....have a good time! T :-)
Well, at least you're not delusional - you realise that she's too delusional to recognise that she is indeed delusional!
Toots is right! Have a good time DifRent.
So far today, I've done a great job of pretending I have a life, but not really having one.
Sometimes just the illusion of getting a life is OK. Fake it till you make it, right? Sounds like you have a lot of good GAL activities going on otherwise.
At MC, my W asked me if I could start making a list of our personal property this weekend, and I kinda rubbed my head like I was thinking about it and said "I can try but I don't think I'll have a chance to get to it this weekend." I'm sure she thinks I'm süper busy, but I have no plans tonight or last night in reality. Just the act of being unavailable is sometimes enough.
Not saying that actually getting a life is unimportant, because it really is. But the illusion of it is enough to the WAS sometimes.
I get that, Matt. Before she left for her BBQ today, I was sitting in the corner chair of the living room, reading. She came over, the silly hug and kiss and wanted to talk and all that jazz. This was where I said she was delusional if she thought I would be okay with her going to see her girlfriend. She said, "I wish you could go out and meet people." I said, "Oh, don't worry about me. Just because I'm in this chair now doesn't mean I don't have plans later." Do I really have to GAL every minute she's around me not to elicit a pity party?
Actually, I thought tonight was going to be a bust. But I had a great conversation over a few beers with someone who had incredible insight about my W, based on her own experience with a breakup - and, having met us not too long ago, even after the BD, said, "I can tell she loves you still." Was kind of nice to hear...
Wound up staying out later than my W, which I wasn't expecting. So that was good GAL stuff! I opened the door to the guest bedroom where she was in bed and falling asleep. She woke startled and said, "I love you." Weird. I wanted to go over and kiss her, of course. But I just closed the door.
BTW, I noticed today that she wasn't wearing the cross and holy medals she usually wears around her neck. I mentioned it, and since she has not much to lose at this point, she readily confessed she'd left them at the OW's house. Of course she took them off to do the unholy things she did. A smidgen of conscience?
Anyway, in bed now. I confess to reading text messages on her phone that was charging downstairs. I know I shouldn't. But this woman is such a predator, feeding my W every opinion she has right now. Like my son says, my WW doesn't have her own mind. And it's too bad. It's a beautiful mind, when she's right in it.
Hoping and praying for a good night's sleep, for once.
Not seeing her much today, and this is good. I'm sure she was with the OW this morning, and now she's at an open house, later plans to go to a horse farm or something. At least she's not trying to throw me "crumbs" between all her fabulous plans today.
I realized something... she does have all these plans, is meeting all these new people through the OW. She doesn't have a life of her own, though. If the OW were suddenly out of the picture, my W would have none of this. Should the OW dump her, she will be floundering. Kind of sad.
This was the text exchange I saw last night: "W: (Dif) is adamant that I can't unilaterally walk out on our commitment, so she says I'm having an affair." "OW: People walk out on commitments all the time. See the pain beneath her anger, and you be firm that it's over without anger. I'm sorry. I know you're miserable, love!" Love, she calls her! Lord have mercy. I was actually glad to see those texts, because it just confirms that whatever comes out of W's mouth these days is actually coming from the OW. She doesn't have her own mind at the moment. It's so sad.
She just called me and asked me to bring something to her at the open house. I'm not in the mood.
Diff,
This was the text exchange I saw last night: "W: (Dif) is adamant that I can't unilaterally walk out on our commitment, so she says I'm having an affair." "OW: People walk out on commitments all the time. See the pain beneath her anger, and you be firm that it's over without anger. I'm sorry. I know you're miserable, love!" Love, she calls her! Lord have mercy. I was actually glad to see those texts, because it just confirms that whatever comes out of W's mouth these days is actually coming from the OW. She doesn't have her own mind at the moment. It's so sad.
Wow. Amazing how the OW twists things around and justifies their A. Crazzeeee.
Ignore that blather and continue doing what you've been doing.
I would suggest that when W tries to lean to kiss or hug you, I'd put up a stiff arm and say, "This is inappropriate considering where we are." You need to remove yourself from W's attempts to mollify her own guilty conscience.
Diff,
This was the text exchange I saw last night: "W: (Dif) is adamant that I can't unilaterally walk out on our commitment, so she says I'm having an affair." "OW: People walk out on commitments all the time. See the pain beneath her anger, and you be firm that it's over without anger. I'm sorry. I know you're miserable, love!" Love, she calls her! Lord have mercy. I was actually glad to see those texts, because it just confirms that whatever comes out of W's mouth these days is actually coming from the OW. She doesn't have her own mind at the moment. It's so sad.
Wow. Amazing how the OW twists things around and justifies their A. Crazzeeee.
Ignore that blather and continue doing what you've been doing.
I would suggest that when W tries to lean to kiss or hug you, I'd put up a stiff arm and say, "This is inappropriate considering where we are." You need to remove yourself from W's attempts to mollify her own guilty conscience.
I've resolved to do that, Wonka. "Mollify her own guilty conscience." Yes. That's exactly what she's trying to do.
Dif -
Glad to see you are hanging in there.
Those texts are always difficult to stomach but provides a little context to the fantasy she is living.
I seems to me when you remove the source of what motivates them (you) they are likely to have less to talk about. Your WW complains and the OW listens, consoles and urges her to make changes.
Removing yourself from the equation and they are forced to have real conversations. Real conversations are not as fun and lose the allure of what's taking place at the moment.
None of this is easy and we kick ourselves when we backslide but we press on. You are on the right track, keep it up.
Have a great day!
It's 11pm. I am in the corner chair of the living room, my WW is on the couch where, until recently, we would usually sit together in the evenings and watch our favorite show of the moment (Breaking Bad, House of Cards... tonight, Blue Bloods).
She spent the whole day, almost, with the OW. I so miss the days when I could be on that couch with her, resting easily together, legs entangled and falling asleep together. I want to go over and kiss her. I want things to be like they were... a mere five weeks ago.
What a mess. She's a mess. I need to set my strategy for this week. I hope she and the OW crash and burn quickly. I want her back. I want HER back. Not this woman.
Any advice for how to start a detached week anew?
Okay, just wanted to say here that when you practice detachment properly and firmly set your boundaries, you'll see results. Whether the results last or not, and whether or not I overplayed my hand this morning after all this detachment, well... we'll see.
So... last night, she tried to give me a hug and a kiss before bed. I said, "Don't touch me." "No?" "No," I said. "Not while you're f***ing another woman." And I closed the MBR door.
I have been cool and detached all morning, of course... after my boundary setting last night. I get out of the shower and am almost dressed when she comes into the bedroom, looking at me sadly. I put on a t-shirt (really, watching me dress is crossing a boundary, too - think I'll just lock the door from now on) and she says, "I miss my room." And I reply, "Well, I miss you."
"I miss you, too."
I say, "But I'm right here."
"So am I."
"No you're not, you're somewhere else entirely. I don't even know who is inhabiting your body right now."
Then she comes really close, like she's going to move in for a kiss. "What are you doing?" She puts her head on my shoulder... "I just want a hug. Can't we be friends?"
"I told you, don't touch me while you're f***ng her. And friends don't do what you're doing."
She backs up, puts her head on my shoulder again. "I want things to be like they were, the only thing I can't do is come back to you." I'm like.... "I don't see the point in this conversation." And I walk past her...
She goes out of the bedroom and says, "What do you want from me to make this easier?" I said, "I want you to move out for two weeks." "To where?" "I don't know, maybe your new girlfriend's house?" "C and I don't have that kind of relationship." "No, you don't. In fact, you don't have a relationship. It's a fantasy."
"Well, I wish you would stop being so cold," she said.
And then, I basically gave a "speech" from a point of strength, assuming a power posture to her stooped and sad looking body. I said she might think I'm being cold, but in fact, I love her, and this is tough love. And real love doesn't abide one's beloved doing things that wrong, evil, hurtful, and dangerous. It doesn't just say, ok, let's be friends, have some fake hugs, do what you want. I reminded her that I'm the one who loves her more than anyone, that she's a mess, and while I can't stop her from doing whatever it is that's causing such chaos in her life, I sure as hell won't be an obliging "friend." I would be a real friend, a real partner, and a real lover. Which isn't easy, but then... when is real love easy?
She nodded the whole way through everything I said. I could see a glimpse of the W I love, and she said, "Thank you for this. I agree with everything you said."
"Everything?"
"Yes, everything. I am sorry I hurt you, and that I keep hurting you. I am sorry, really."
And she went upstairs.
I don't know if I gave her actual food for thought, or what. I just know that the OW is at work and unavailable this morning, so that opened up some space for her to come see me the way she did in the first place. I hope I came across as firm enough, but didn't give away any DB "strategy." I don't think so. And... odds are, once she sees the OW, this whole thing will fade away again. But maybe some of it will stick as we continue down this journey.
Sorry for the long post. I mostly wanted to communicate some satisfaction in seeing how the strategies actually got her coming to me like this.
Always interesting to see what happens when the pursuer stops pursuing!
I'm glad you were able to set some boundaries for yourself. Just because she seems sad now doesn't mean it won't roller coaster to anger or other emotions later. Some of what you said may have come off as controlling, but I think that overall those points will be lost.
Now make sure you don't backslide on some of these things you set. I believe the tests will come. Watch out.
Diff,
I'm like Tigger jumping on Pooh: Freakin' AWESOME!!!!
You have done all of us proud with your talk with W. Well done, baby!!
Now you really need to pull back, not be too available to W, ramp up your GAL. If W tries to kiss or hug (whatever) you, you just deflect and say
"Please do not do this. You are not respecting my personal boundaries. I've asked you several times and you keep pushing it. I don't like it at all. This must stop."
W will try to cross it because she has enjoyed having the OW and you up until now. Be alert for those moves.
Diff,
Just saw this post from our darlin' Starsky over in Defacto's thread that is very, VERY applicable to you as well.
How much keen strategy does one need to follow the basic laws of human attraction? She cheats on you, you pull back and establish your boundary, and she seeks to reattract you in order to get back the power equilibrium. It's basic "push-pull" dynamics, and she doesn't need a degree in quantum physics to play it.
BINGO!
The power equilibrium. Wow... that's so true!
Thanks for the support, Wonka. I am working at the open work space today. She and I do need to spend time together this afternoon getting the property set up that we're moving the kids to in a few weeks, but I will stay detached.
By the way, a friend of W and me today commented how "strong" I am with handling all this - after she was, of course, horrified to hear what's going on. Strong is not how I feel most of the time. But if I'm coming off as strong, I credit DB, and the support and insight I find in this group every day. Thanks to all of you.
Sitting on the porch tonight, having a glass of wine. I'm in one corner, she's in the other. I suppose genuine detachment would be me sitting inside far away from her, but it was my idea to come out here, and I'm not going to avoid her just because she decides to invade my space!
I did leave for a bit to call my friend. When I came back, she was all, "Who were you talking to for so long?"
She is such a child. Why do I want this to work out again? I'm looking at her, and her narcissistic personality, and it's really embarrassing. For me that I married her, and for her - for all of this.
Matt, you were right... she got angry with me. Last night, aggressively so. I shouldn't have stayed on the porch with her, because it was too easy for a conversation to start. She followed me into the bedroom, used expletives, wanted to know what my plans were for moving forward, blamed everything on me, even suggested that the OW might move into the house once I'm gone, and when will that be again? I fought back. It wasn't a shining moment of detachment, that's for sure.
Then this morning she apologized, said she "wanted to hug me and help me through this," but didn't want me to get the wrong idea. Had to be clear again that I don't want her hugs, and I don't want her. Just going to pick myself up and get back to doing the right things, and avoid the traps. We'll see how it goes today.
Diff,
I did leave for a bit to call my friend. When I came back, she was all, "Who were you talking to for so long?"
She is such a child. Why do I want this to work out again? I'm looking at her, and her narcissistic personality, and it's really embarrassing. For me that I married her, and for her - for all of this.
^^ has nothing to do with being a narcissistic. By being mysterious and talking with your friend for a long time just piqued her curiosity. This is what we all talk about here a lot of the time: how to be mysterious. So funny that your W asked you that question. That's to be expected.
Now....as for the porch confrontation. You do have an option. Tell her that you're not having this conversation and WALK away. She will try to goad you into an argument. Do NOT fall for that.
Brush yourself off. Today is a new day.
Trying to, Wonka, thanks. It's a gloomy, rainy day here. Perfectly matches my mood.
She's so caught up in this affair - or, her "new relationship," as she puts it, since she didn't "do anything" until she "broke up" with me. I have to remember not to believe anything she says. Although one thing she is right about: people change.
Boy, has she ever.
Dif
Just act like she is on drugs ... because in a way she is .. till she comes off that drug and figures out that reality and the fantasy in her head are in fact two completely different things.
Keep up your DBing, you are doing well ... head and chin up .. you've got this.
Agree with Cali and Wonka (shocking, I know)
Sounds like your doing most of this really well. Keep going on your path, shake off the mistakes, and become the person you want to be. As Cali said - you've got this.
Thanks guys, as always, for the encouragement.
Our (my, actually...as stepmom, she's distancing herself from them, too) younger son graduates from high school on Sunday. He and his brother are moving out in a few weeks. I have been struggling with the pending empty nest syndrome for a while, and that was going to be bad enough. On top of this, my W is leaving me and wants me to live somewhere else, and I need to find a job because working the business together is no longer an option, but I am having such a hard time with motivation... it's like everything is caving in at once. The thought of all that lies ahead is overwhelming, even while dealing with the pain of what I'm losing. I am really fighting a serious depression here. But the nightmare is touching every aspect of my life. I can't escape it even for a moment.
Still, doing my best. Thanks again.
Yeah, Diff...you are getting slammed from all different directions. Hang in there.
When Ms. Wonka first left, I couldn't function for the first two weeks. I had a friend come over and stay with me. Bless this friend's heart, she made a to-do list for me. That helped me IMMENSELY. It gave me a focus and allowed me to check off each item when I've completed them.
Such dark days...phew.
Nowadays I do my own to-do lists that helps me breakdown actionable goals when it comes to work. Even if you do ONE single thing in one day...that's accomplishment by itself. Even if it is 15 or 30 minutes.
You can do this, baby!
I have an interview and a potential job training session tomorrow, both of which will at least get me feeling like a professional - so, that's two things on the to-do list. I'm also going to a Divorce Care support group tonight. No matter what happens, I need to deal with this sadness sooner than later. I'm hoping it's a good group of people.
One thing I'm kind of having a problem with in this detachment process: I think I'm still somehow conveying a sense of sadness, because I'm certainly not being effusively pleasant. I am trying not to let on how I feel, but I'm not a good actor. I get the logic behind the whole trying to attract and be cordial and the friendly neighbor, but for godsake, she is being intimate every other night with this other woman before she comes home! I can't just pretend that I'm okay with this.
She said to me this morning that she wanted to "hug" me and "help" me through this. I said she can't hurt me and help me at the same time - that I couldn't live in a world of fake hugs and cheap grace. Since then, she's pulled a detachment card of her own, and it's kind of cold. Not sure what to make of it, or if I really need to step up my efforts at acting like I'm happy.
In fact, she just blew in here unexpectedly, took some aspirin, then said she'd probably be late tonight (code term for I'm going to spend the evening with the OW), as she walked right back out the door. This is a new attitude from her.
Dif
She is feeling guilt .. she knows what she is doing is wrong so she is turning to you for the emotional support .. this is not the first time I have read you saying she has done as much ... and you have been setting the boundary and letting her know that support is gone.
I did the same with my W, was a point she needed me to take care of her, she was ill and when she would feel that way I was always the one she would call ... 2-3 in morning, wekeends .. you name it ... well right about Christmas I dropped off S, she was on the couch all sicky .. asked if I would go grab her some things ... I smiled and said sorry I have plans .... call OM I am sure he would be more than happy to be 'that guy' seeing how you both are 'soulmates'. (I was more happy I pulled this off without straight up laughing my a$$ off) Turned out to be a tipping point in my sitch ... she and I both knew OM was not that guy and never would be.
Keep at it .. you are doing well .. I know it hurts, but you have to focus on the big picture here.
You knocked her off her equilibrium. She had everything and you've pulled out a big part of her life. So she's going to react in a wide array of emotions. Hurt, sad, angry, jealous, you name it. Stay your course.
You know what to do!
Thanks Cali. This board has really been a source of sanity for me, to see how many of you have dealt with the same craziness. So many common themes. I guess I just can't believe how quickly everything can change. I remain completely shocked that I am even here.
Doing my best, Matt. Just like you. Thanks.
Quick question if anyone is paying attention tonight: my W is at the OW's house, I know... she doesn't even try to hide it anymore. And I had questioned her strategy of spending every weekend holding open houses. So a little while ago, she forwarded an email from a potential lead she got at one open house, saying, "Look, indeed, open houses work. This is a very sweet email." It's not even a very good lead, as nothing will materialize for at least 6 months. But... okay. The email feels passive aggressive to me, kind of "in my face." Wondering if I should use this as an opportunity to validate and affirm (such as, "good job hon, happy for you, keep doing the open houses then."), or should I just ignore?
BTW.. went to a Divorce Care support group tonight, and one of the facilitators said he used to be on these boards years ago. Wouldn't tell me his handle, but he said this was an invaluable resource for him while he was in the thick of things. I said that was encouraging, but also, that I already knew that.
DifRent,
I just joined yesterday and Toots pointed me to your thread. I have just finished reading it (or rather both) and am honestly shocked at the number of similarities between our paths...but as someone mentioned, the script is the script for the WAS.
The fact that we both wake up at 2 and can't get back to sleep was another little tidbit that surprised me! I can at least say that now the wake up time has moved to 4 thankfully. But there are many nights where I still end up with only 2 or 3 hours of sleep. And I am a first year head of school/principal, so that isn't really working out for me. Lately though, I have managed a few nights with 5 hours. The really sick feeling in the stomach has passed and my appetite is coming back some. And that is easier the more I detach. But my H isn't in my face/space as much as your W's is. That would be much harder and you are doing well.
I sensed something a few weeks before your bomb dropped and thought it was peri-menopause and messed up hormones when really it was my intuition telling me something was terribly, terribly wrong. My H feels that living as roommates is a good solution even though he says he knows he should just move out and would if he could. We still share a bed (although we had a few days where we didn't) and I am really debating on whether kicking him to the guest bed would help or hurt.
I think my "favorite" part (it that even an appropriate thing for me to say) as I got toward the end of your thread is just how much our WASes want to "help us" and are so sorry they are "hurting us." Good grief!
I am feeling the same challenges with detachment as you are. Ok one minute or hour and unable to manage it the next. My H continues to be affectionate and loving while I keep creating more distance...when all I want is to melt into that affection and love. This is so incredibly hard. And we have a 6 year old in the mix. So trying to insulate him is really difficult.
You are doing an amazing job of coping. Hang in there! We will through this and one day our spouses will wonder why they did this to such amazing people.
Wow Aix... amazing how similar our sitches are, yes. How are you liking your new job, by the way? I'm trying to imagine how I'd be handling all of this with all those responsibilities I used to have in that job. Hard on the one hand, but on the other, I loved what I did and I have to think the passion I had for it would have balanced the despair I'm feeling right now. Not having passionate work to drive me at the moment is a real challenge. I know it's got to be hard for you to do your job on so little sleep and with such a big pit in your stomach, but hopefully you can focus and use the job as a coping mechanism as much as anything else.
Thanks for the encouragement. I don't see your thread... is there an OW involved with your H?
I love my new job, but given it is year 1 and the Board hired me to replace the founder (who is still working here), it has had many challenges.
We are a small non-profit (94 students) so that is hard too. But I love my work now and you are right that it makes a difference!
A big part of my personal dissatisfaction that impacted my marriage was with my job and not doing meaningful work. In my mind, taking this job would fix a lot of that, but it ended up just further hurting my marriage. He resents the pay cut and the hours (as if corporate America required less hours - I have gotten the "all I care about is work" story for so much of our marriage since he was working less and had his own void to fill. But I would rather be satisfied in my 50 hours a week instead of empty any day. I wish I didn't have to have my work life and personal life all going at least decently to function in the other!
I do have to say that I have barely survived for the last month - budget needs to be done, hiring needs to be completed, reviews, etc. and I just keep dropping the ball. Not at all like me and I don't know how to keep everything afloat. But detachment is helping and slowly I am becoming more productive. I don't know it if was on your thread or another, but make that list and set your expectations low for what you cross off, but let it guide you to at least focus intermittmently. It builds our confidence and provides a distraction whenever our mind is able to be distracted (if even for only 15 minutes at a pop).
Yes there is an OW involved and my H is in love for sure. It is like crack and kills me to see him text "I love you!" to her and not even be able to say it or write it to me - the mother of his beloved son. The OW was actually married to a W previously and was abandoned by her a year or two ago which my H used to justify that there was nothing going on. I seems she has changed her tune. And he won't give her up, so I am having to just wait. It has been two months. He "lost" his wedding ring about 3 days after they had some really intimate "ah ha" connection experience the day before or of our S's birthday. Messy. All really messy.
Here is my thread - lots of differences probably when you read it, but your words spoke to me. Misery loves company!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2574252#Post2574252Hang in there!
Thanks for posting your thread so I could "catch up."
One boundary I drew, and was suggested here, is that we do not talk about the OW at all. We don't even acknowledge her. The OW in our case is a client of my W, so we don't even talk business regarding her - and I'm involved with the business. For a while I referred to the OW as "the predator," but I've quit doing that now... I think I've made my point, but continuing to do this would only serve to drive a bigger wedge between us. But no... she will get no support from me regarding any issues or problems between her and a woman she has no business being with, considering the commitment she made to me and the lies upon which that "relationship" was founded.
I also set other boundaries as things progressed: after the first "official date," she was out of the bedroom. After the EA became a PA, no more touching. I have no empirical data to support my theory, but I feel as if connecting certain boundaries to certain events that way, I'm getting my points across more clearly. She seems to have been rattled by both those moves.
As of right now, she is matching my detachment. Personally, I think it is as hard for her to do this as it is for me, but I can't be sure. I just know she wants more from me, but the question is why. Probably because if she could still be that "affectionate friend," she'd be easing her own conscience about what she's done and is continuing to do. What I really want is for her to have pangs of guilt hit her on a regular basis, but not because she's pitying me or thinking I don't have a life. I think that by pulling back, she's left alone with her thoughts more often than she's used to, and in those moments when the OW isn't filling her mind with predatory propaganda, she's lost and missing the stable rock I've always been.
I think. I can't be sure. Right now, she is so unfamiliar to me, in all the worst possible ways.
And oh yes... they are addicted to the crack. That's one of the things that gives me hope. The addiction WILL wear off. It's just a matter of when, and whether by that point, either one of us will be interested in (or capable of) a real relationship again with each other.
Hey Dif -
Just to make sure, there's a difference between:
- not asking what she's doing and not caring what she's doing
- pushing her away and not pursuing
- leaving her to her thoughts and detaching
The first things are all activities designed to control or manipulate her back to you. The second things are healthy ways of moving forward with your life.
Just recommending you re-read your last post and really think about your motivations for your actions (which I do think are really good so far!)
Good points, Matt. I don't think I'm pushing her away, and I think her being left alone with her thoughts is a byproduct of the detachment, not something I am actively trying to make happen.
As for not caring what she's doing... eh. I can't help it, but I do care. I mean, again... this is all so raw and fresh. I can't help but be stung knowing what she's doing with the OW. Since 90% of the time she's gone these days that's who she's with, I REALLY have to focus on GAL in order to try and put it out of my mind. Like right at this moment...
But again... thanks for the encouragement.
Not saying that you're doing any of the things I mentioned. Just in reading your last post, a lot of the phrases you used suggested you trying to "punish" WW. Healthy detachment involves moving forward with your life for you without worrying about the feelings of WW. There's no need to manipulate or punish WW,
You got it!
Diff,
I'm reading along....stay strong, honey. Matt has given you some real good pointers. Face forward, feet forward.
I wish I knew you people in real life, and we could get together in the evenings for a few drinks and real hugs. I'm really touched by how supportive this board is. Without all of you, this would be a completely different situation...
Yeah, I can see where it might look like I'm trying to punish her. I'm not, though... really, I'm not.
But she needs to feel the loss of something, as Sandi has mentioned. I'm not focusing on that, but I know she's feeling the loss of my constant presence in her life. I don't think that's a punishment, is it? I think it's a consequence of her actions... my detachment, my determination to GAL, my giving her the space she wants on the one hand, and despises on the other.
Actually, right at this moment, we are in the same room, and I keep looking at her, feeling an admixture of love and sorrow. I don't recognize the woman she's become. And if this is the woman she decides to continue to be, then it's over.
But it will take time to sort all this out. I'm doing my best to "bear wrongs patiently." And to be sure that I'm working on myself in such a way that I will be fine no matter what happens. I'm not focused on winning her back. Because... that's not feeling very hopeful. So, the only thing I can do is focus on me.
But Matt... I have to say, you have an awful lot of wisdom for one who has been here for such a short period of time. Thank you, so much, for being so supportive here in my situation. I wish I had similar wisdom to offer you in your situation. With two little girls, I know you are really going through the ringer. (When I divorced my (violent) husband, I was about your age, and my boys were 5 and 7. It's not easy. I feel for you.)
Wonka, thanks for being both a cheerleader and a necessary reality check. You're an inspiration. So glad to have you helping me here.
I wish I knew you people in real life, and we could get together in the evenings for a few drinks and real hugs. I'm really touched by how supportive this board is. Without all of you, this would be a completely different situation...
It's not just the giving and getting of advice that's so wonderful.
It's the feeling of being with people that UNDERSTAND the pain that you are living with every minute of every day. That know how difficult it is to just get out of bed, or drive down a certain street or listen to a certain song.
My family, my friends, hell even my counselor are on my side. They try to help; try to offer support. But until you've lived it, you just DONT understand.
That's what I love about being here. Is just feeling like a part of a real group of people that know how to support each other completely in good times and bad.
DifRent and Matt, I agree with both of you. Not sure how I would manage otherwise.
I wasn't saying you ARE. Just in reading the post, it comes across like some of your subconscious motivations may be part of revenge/vindication/whatever. This [censored] is hard, and hurts so much, I never really can understand my true motivations until well after I've done something. That's why they say to let stuff simmer for a day or two to make sure you aren't acting out of emotion. Something that seems good at 2 in the morning may look horrible by 9.
And you're right. The WAS has to feel the consequences of their actions before any change can be made. I just don't think the LBS needs to push them; they'll get there on their own. My W is pushing so hard for a financial S ASAP. I just have no idea how she will maintain the lifestyle she's accustomed to on the finances she's going to encounter. We barely make it by as it is; now adding an apartment and everything else....I have no clue. But it's what she wants right now, so I'm not going to stand in her way. But by the same token, I don't need to kick her out of the house today if she's going to leave voluntarily in 3 weeks.
Granted, I cant imagine still living with my WAS in the state you're in. I can't even begin to understand the constant and regular hurt and sadness you must feel.
As for me, I really appreciate your kind thoughts. This is the hardest thing I've dealt with in my life, and I'm heartbroken that my daughters will grow up in a fractured family. I don't know how bad whatever pain I must have put my W through must have been to cause her to make this decision. I hate knowing that we could turn this around. I hate feeling like she's giving up too early. I hate knowing there's nothing I can do about it. But, I also know that by being here, by making the changes, by letting go, I'm doing everything I can to try to save this marriage. And I know that if it wasn't meant to be, that I'll come out of it as a better person and a better dad, and I will make it right next time. And don't worry about not having any advice for me - just knowing there's people out there listening and caring means so much to me. And if I can help someone along the way, then all the better.
Interesting advice from my coach this morning, and I just wanted to share. We pretty much honed in on the fact that the OW makes my WW feel special, important, successful. That is the primary reason she is with her.
And I've been more "constructively critical," and haven't gone out of my way to be the one who makes her feel that way. I can't do it disingenuously, but the coach reminded me that when I was in education, I ALWAYS looked for the positives first when dealing with a struggling teacher or a challenging student. And so, I need to look for the positives here as well, and catch her off guard, and drop the compliments quickly without expecting anything in return.
I just wanted to point this out because, yes... DBing is about working on ourselves, and making ourselves better people, no matter which direction things go. While we have no expectations, we hope that in doing so, our spouses will be drawn back to us. In fact... none of us would be here without that hope. So yeah... I have to make this effort if I'm to have that hope. Doing that sort of thing will make me a better person too, I'm pretty sure.
I need support... my "real world" friends are telling me to end this [censored], I'm too good for her, etc., etc. But here's what happened tonight...
We had a meeetup group that we attended together. On the way there, she told me she had "no" plans this weekend, except she has "plans" tomorrow night. I know what that means. I don't want to dig further. And besides, I have GAL plans, too.
Tonight's event wound up being very small, just four people - half of whom were us. One of the people there already recognized us as a couple from happier days. I dressed well, wore a perfume she recognized from every time I used to pick her up from the airport ("smells good in here," she said when she came home), and I made a point to be my most charming self at this event. I had the other attendees talking about how I needed to run for office, impressed with my contributions to the conversation... and interestingly, my W "claimed" me then. Offered to host a meetup group at "our" home. We talked freely of trips we've taken, acted very much like a couple... she did, anyway. I was kind of passive about it.
And the whole time, she had her leg pressed to mine under the table, spoke admiringly of me, gave me some old familiar looks...
In the car on the way home, she spoke of "us"... plans for our son's graduation party on Sunday, progress regarding both our business and our respective job searches, what the financial forecast looks like for the rest of the year. Nothing at all combative or contentious. Of course, we get home, and I can't help but look at our business email... where she jumps on to tell the OW that she loves her and misses her and will call as soon as she can...
(My son mentioned last night, btw, that the OW looks like a potato. I shouldn't take pleasure in this, but I did. Because he's right. I seriously don't see the attraction... except, as my coach said this morning, the OW has more money than I do, and is stroking her ego, making her feel important, all of that. And I am not.)
Anyway, we came home, and she went upstairs to take care of "business," all of which I can hear, so it's not with the OW. But I'm looking back on my day, and I followed all the advice my coach gave me: compliment her if you can (I did... about some ads she designed, about how nice she looked, about how hard she's working), I made myself look and act attractive. I did not argue, didn't give her any reason not to feel good about herself following any interaction with me... but also, stayed detached enough. Did not pursue. Let her drive THAT train, even as I did my best to be confident and composed tonight.
Her heart is divided. No... actually, I think her heart is with me. Other parts of her are with the OW. Her ego. Her libido. Her crack addict self.
Am I letting her take advantage? Or am I working the DB plan the way I should?
And should I even care?
And just now... I ran into her in the kitchen. I went to get water from the fridge, she touched me... I looked back at her. She looked at me sheepishly and said, "I can't get a hug?" Followed my coach's script to the T... "I wish we could. But we're just not there right now, are we?" Gave her a long eye to eye look, and went into the bedroom.
We'll see what tomorrow brings...
Don't worry about your friends. Until you're in this situation, you JUST. DONT. KNOW. how to react. It's easy to SAY "drop her", "leave her"...it's easy to say "is never stay withy W if she had an A." But you just don't know until you love through it; until you actually watch the love of your life slip out of your hands to another person.
So you get to decide what you want. If you truly love this woman, fight as long as you want to for your M. Nobody here is going to judge you for standing for your M too long. You get to decide when it's truly over. Only you.
Keep strong. Tomorrow is another day.
Thanks, Matt. My coach told me to be hopeful. Said the fact that she feels compelled to run down her schedule means we still have a connection. The fact that she continues to want affection means we still have a connection. She was cold on Tuesday but warmed up in response to my being less distant and more complimentary. Typically, she'd hang up the phone with the OW and go to sleep upstairs. Last night, she came down to say goodnight to me after, and wanted a hug.
Michele says in the book, recognize the small signs of progress. Not sure sure if all this is progress, exactly. But they are signs of possible hope.
Still, this morning I'm just so exhausted, and it's oppressive to think that they have a "date" tonight, in spite of my GAL plans.
This is the second Saturday morning I've awaken knowing that my W slept with the OW the night before. Guess I'm doing better with it this week; last Saturday morning, we fought. This morning, I'm just being detached.
I was out on the town with a friend last night and really did keep myself distracted, and was tired enough to fall right asleep once I got home. She has a full day with an open house and working out and meeting with her Stephen Minister. Last I heard, she'd be home after that for the night, but that seems to have changed as now she's going to see an "investment property" at 5pm - with, no doubt, the OW.
I get the sense (from overhearing a phone conversation this week) that the OW is a bit pushy and clingy, and may have convinced her to make these plans. I know I'm not supposed to worry about it, but I confess I'm hoping for the beginnings of a little trouble in paradise.
Have an invitation to a party tonight that's a bit of a drive from here, from a mutual friend who invited us both. I might just sit on the couch and enjoy a quiet evening at home, though. I don't do that much these days, with all this GAL-ing.
I sure do miss spending those evenings on the couch with my W.
Wishing everyone a pleasant weekend.
Question: it's Saturday night, the WW is out with the OW hitting the town. I've been deliberately making the house a cold place for her to come to at night... all the lights off, dishes might be piled up in the sink, she has to go through all of that to get to bed upstairs. Would it be better to make her return more welcoming and reminiscent of happier times? Lights on, nice scents throughout the house, a sense of warmth and cleanliness? If anyone has any experience with this... just curious. I made it hard during detachment, but wondering if I went too far...
I think you should leave it how you would want it when you wake up. I wouldnt leave lights on, but I also wouldnt purposefully leave it messy.
But I have no experience on the matter....just my opinion.
Agree with Matt. Show that you go on and take care of what needs to be taken care of, and that you aren't going to become less of a man & H. In a sense, do you give her power to cause a reaction, which she will notice that she has hurt you, or do you show that you are above it. Certainly, go cold, but clean the damn dishes, especially if they are at least partly yours. Even if she is acting poorly, take care of your house and your environment.
Maybe clean the dishes, then go do something with friends rather than sitting around the house. If you do sit around, I agree with the don't wait up, turn the lights out, and don't leave out a signal that you've been spending your time focusing on her being out with the OW.
Like Matt, I haven't gone through this, yet. My W is going through an MLC, so as I've detached and she can no longer blame her unhappiness on me and our M, I'm expecting and steeling myself for her to start looking for something to fill the hole in her soul that is causing all her pain and unhappiness, and that this will likely be an A. It will still hurt like hell, and I know that I will struggle like you are. I've got the one advantage of being separated so I can get drunk and not clean the dishes until it is time to swap on the kids, but I'm damned if I'm going to react in a way she can detect that it is eating me up and causing me to seem less than highly functioning in going on taking care of life end of things -- I hope (we'll see when the sh*t hits the fan).
Hang tough, I know it has got to have your guts in a knot. Just thinking about it in regards to my W, does this to me. Keep sharing and we'll keep throwing you support to help you through it.
Thanks. Yesterday was our son's graduation, mostly a good day, but still a mixed bag, with a bad ending. We went grocery shopping together in the morning. During the drive, she wanted very much to talk about "post-separation" plans - particularly living arrangements. I handled it with cool detachment, especially since we aren't going to be making those decisions anytime soon. At the store, at one point she caressed my back like the old days, ran her fingers through my hair to say she liked how my hair looked, and I didn't exactly tell her to stop touching me.
Then she put on a drop dead gorgeous cocktail dress for the ceremony. Told her she looked good, but maybe something more "motherly" would be more appropriate. She complied, at one point while sitting down she asked "why are you looking at me like that?" Didn't know what she was talking about, but she said I had "hate" in my eyes. I'm sure there are a lot of things in my eyes when she looks into them, but assuredly, hate is not one of them.
We came back and had a relatively pleasant family gathering. She cooked, sat really close to me on the couch to make room for someone else, but again... it was like old times. After everyone left, though, she wanted to get on my case about a photo I posted on FB. She called the OW and when I walked onto the porch and heard her outside, she flipped out and accused me of spying.
And then... we TALKED. Again. She admitted that she feels guilty and she knows what she's doing is wrong. But the whole thing devolved into an unpleasant conversation. I know I need to not take the bait on these things, but it's awfully hard. It's great when it's time to go to bed, but then I'm up at 2am, always. So I'm exhausted right now, she's upstairs working and has yet to say good morning while I start my day down here.
Everyone here says DBing is not for the faint of heart. They are right. Wondering if I have the strength to continue, though.
Hey Dif - it's tough in the moment to avoid these kinds of conversation, especially when it starts out with the WS seeming to understand or see some "light". Anyway, think about the things she said and see if you can pick out anything useful. And now you know better for next time.
As for this:
"Everyone here says DBing is not for the faint of heart. They are right. Wondering if I have the strength to continue, though."
Someone posted "what does giving up look like?" to me or someone else, right when I joined. So I'll ask the same to you.
Hmmm... good question, Matt. Giving up looks just as hopeless as not giving up, at least right now. Might as well keep at it... hope you have a hopeful day yourself.
Diff,
Glad your son graduated! What an accomplishement for him.
I know it can be real hard not to get sucked into R talks. Try to stay centered and use your ears MORE often than your mouth. Time to brush up on the Validation Cheat Sheet, honey.
Keep on keeping on...chin up.
Thanks, Wonka. I'm going to read up on the cheat sheet now, since we have to spend a bit of time in the car and around family again together later.
I happened upon written confirmation that the OW began manipulating my W sooner than I thought... just days after we'd all attended a camping trip together, one during which my W was her usual loving, affectionate self - but also one where I literally saw the OW looking at her inappropriately, and wishing out loud that my W had a sister...
Days later, she was looking for "confirmation" that W planned to leave me, and when. She began to suggest my W distance herself from me, start paving the way for a separation. Do what you can, she said, to make sure she doesn't know we're already in an EA. It's like she provided a script for my W to follow, and yeah... I KNOW I'm not supposed to let the OW occupy rent free space in my head, but the whole thing is so maddening to me. I can't help but mention the insanity to my W every so often... especially during our talk last night.
I'd like to know what goes through the mind of the OP. Who does this sort of thing? It does not absolve my W of any culpability, of course, but she was the one who was lost, confused, and looking for an out. What's the OP's excuse?
I am sorry DiffRent.
I am sory you had to read up on these confirmations. It is awful I know.
Hang in there and know that you can't control your W or what she does but you do have control over you and what your life can be.
It is a lesson I am learning still a day at a time.
You can do this.
Much suport to you friend
HeavyD
Diff,
I'd like to know what goes through the mind of the OP. Who does this sort of thing? It does not absolve my W of any culpability, of course, but she was the one who was lost, confused, and looking for an out. What's the OP's excuse?
Hey, you don't want to be in the head of a very, very broken person. Excuse? Absolutely none...zero.
Don't go there.
Thanks HeavyD. Much support to you, too. Such sadness all around, but you provide hope.