link to previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548251#Post2548251 Greetings all,
well I'm here for thread number 14 and its about the 9 months since BD and a lot has happened in that time. I can definitely think of ways i'd rather have spent the last 9 months but it is what it is.
So for those who are new or just catching up or otherwise interested here is the 10p tour - my update will follow in my next post so skip this bit if you already know my story.
My W decided she wanted out of the relationship and blames me entirely - never really had much of an explanation beyond about how 'awful' i was and that 'I was never there for her' although i do recognise there were various parts of my behaviour that fall a long way short of anything i could be proud of.
all the typical stuff followed of being really upset, writing letters, begging for a chance, asking for an explanation etc. etc.
I know from indirect sources that my W has told people that she left me because i was 'controlling and emotionally abusive'. this has worried me greatly because its not something i recognise but its obviously how she felt.
I subsequently discovered that there was OM1 which was a work colleague who she was very attracted to and actively pursued for months, and had been dating on and off throughout the period. There was also some circumstantial evidence of other OMs during the off periods.
In february my W admitted they were dating although about 6 weeks later she created a profile on a dating site. I genuinely dont know the situation now.
for reference i sometimes refer to SIL and PF (poisonous friend) as these are two key influences in her life and both are horribly negative influences.
So in house separation but with very little communication until Jan 20th when we finalised the financials and she completed the purchase of her new house.
Since actual separation there has been very little communication and what there is business like about the kids. I still get the sense that im being blamed for everything.
So thats my situation
as for me, well i've tried to understand what i actually did wrong and why i did those things and have found out a few things about me. I've stuck with regular IC and thats helped a lot for both helping me grow and processing my grief.
Its fair to say that if you've read NMMNG then you've got a pretty good summation of where i was coming from although many of the books that you see mentioned round here have a large pile of grains of truth in them.
meditation (headspace) and exercise have helped a lot in just getting myself more centred as has some of the advice when looking into a couple of other possible issues that would make a difference.
I've done my best to keep myself busy and am slowly expanding my social networks by strengthening existing friendships and trying to build some new ones too.
My relationship with my kids has never been an issue although it has been difficult at times since BD because we have all struggled with the emotions of it all. I do feel i could have easily been sucked into a deep depression but feel like i've done a good job of climbing out of that particular hole.
So now i focus on building my life as i want it on the assumption that my M is done for good but i will always leave the door open to my W because despite everything and as i said recently i still feel i married the right person for the right reasons.
so 9 months after starting this decidedly unwanted and unpleasant journey, im making progress and except for one major aspect my life is pretty good
But then again that it is a little like saying Lance Armstrong was a top bloke except for the relentless cheating
So update
well first up, thanks to all of you guys who checked in on me and sorry i haven't been around this last week or so. (I will catch up where i can as soon as i can)
I'd love to say its because of really exciting developments in my situation and it is.....
no, not really. mainly its because i was on a course that had a tonne of homework each night and i had to fit my d usual time with the kids and my day job around it. Hopefully i passed the course - I'll find out my exam result in the next few weeks.
The bank holiday weekend was good, spent the time with various friends then back to work today, but only for a few days as come the weekend i'm taking the kids on holiday for some sunshine and plenty of swimming.
In other news you may remember that a couple of weekends ago there was some increased chattyness with my XW well it seems that's where it ended. I've sent a couple of text messages one to thank her for some stuff and the other to let her know about important info in relation to D4 - no response of any kind to either.
so i've not updated for a little while but in truth not a great deal has happened to update on.
anyways hope you are all doing good
No update?
Jim, that means a lot of studying and concentrating.
A lack of Mooooose.
My fingers crossed for the exams.
V
Hi Jim
So thanks for the 10p update. You said on my thread to wait for that. Are you UK? Your writing style suggests as much. Anyway, glad you are working on you, which as they say in these parts is the correct thing to do.
Peace my friend.
So glad to hear that you took a class and are working on you, Jim. And, glad to finally hear an update of sorts. I'm hoping that you did well on your exam. I have all the faith that you did!
Hang in there, Jim. Life will get better. Take care of you and those precious kiddos. Molly sends a tail wag for that ear scratch you sent yesterday.
Jim, good luck on the course grade, I understand how rough it can be to get through classes while dealing with everything else life throws at us. Keep up the great work.
Hi Jim
indeedy good luck with the course results though I imagine you'll have aced it. As I've said elsewhere never say never sitches change and sometimes change direction fast, just keep being the best Jim you can be then if you have an option be even better for you, the kids and w or another relationship. Just make every day something good if you can although sometimes thats difficult as I well know.
The upcoming holiday and swimming sounds good though if there's guaranteed sun it cant be in the UK - lol!
Take it easy mate
Hi Jim, sounds like you have had a busy time studying my friend - I missed you, but good for you with the hard work! I hope for brilliant results for you - only what you deserve!
Sounds like things continue to ebb and flow with your W. Even though you are in a cool phase, I'm still positive about the overall trend. And you are remaining consistent in your interactions, which is great. Equally, you are moving forward and focusing on you & the kids - double great! Who knows what will happen with any of our sitches, but I think you have become a man only a fool will leave....
Take care Jim, and enjoy your hols with those lovely little ones!! xx
Hi Jim,
Vanilla once said that I should think about the light house and just be. You are doing well keeping yourself in a positive direction, studying and growing your horizons.
I hope you did well in your tests. There are other forms of happiness in life and even knowing that there are dark moments, you can manage to find purpose and become a better person.
You have been learning and applying some changes that will make a difference if you R with your W or if you find someone else to share life. You are young and have a lot ahead of you.
Keep up the good work, you are a good example for the little ones and one day they will tell you how proud they are they have a dad like you.
Amazing as it is, now that I am going through this situation in my M, I have been hearing and seeing how many people go through some difficult times, and how time can heal and change perceptions.
I hear about couples that separate for two, three, five years and then find themselves going back together. It's almost like you need a vacation from each other and then things cool down and everyone can see things a little more clear.
Like Edz says, the sitches can change very suddenly and one never knows what will happen tomorrow. The only thing we can do is to try our best and become better with the knowledge we acquire during this time.
Jim is doing all this, and I am sure you will be happy one way or the other. We are all very proud of you.
XOXO
Pink
Omg jim you sound very different it's been a while since I read your thread.
I really laughed, you've come a long way and it showing. Keep looking forwards my dear boy.
Hi Jim. Good luck re exams mate. Wage increase when passed ?
Re W , it's a long long road and who knows what's at the other end. W came forward and that's a positive , let's see what's the future brings.
Take care. Rd
If only it came with a wage increase...... It will be recognised certification though which is good for my CV.
Just a quick update (and sorry I've not checked much on everyone else) but its all been a bit chaotic getting everything sorted to go on holiday with the kids
So really just updating to say there has been a bit of practical communication with XW which has been fine. I've been noticeably lighter in tone compared to XW.
I also engaged in a bit of pursuit when I collected the kids. She was very upset, probably because she won't see the kids for 10 days and she is a little anxious about the holiday. As I was about to go I said something like
'I know life is different now, but I wish you were coming with us'
I was upbeat and positive as i left with cheery kids in tow.
Right I have to get up for a plane so need some sleep.
Hope you all have good weeks
Jim honey,
Have a lovely vacation with your kiddos and enjoy as much as you can this time with them.
They do grow very fast and you see them going to college right before you have time to realize it.
So, hug them and kiss those little cheeks, it is yet the best prize we get from life.
I am happy you got that sentence out of your chest, it may be pursuing but it can also be a man saying that he is sorry his family is broken. If it was natural, them you just left her thinking.
She may be all upset and still with a lot of resentment towards you, but one day in the past she fell in love with you and that is somewhere inside her. We under estimate their pain because it seems that they are doing all this to hurt us. But I also wonder how much it hurts them to be responsible for so much destruction.
You are a good man and deserve to be happy, hopefully you are learning how to improve and respect yourself and with W or without her I am sure you will rebuilt your life again.
Enjoy vacation, it goes pretty fast.
XOXO,
Pink
Hi jim0987 - Just stopping by to say that I'm still here and still following your sitch closely.
Of course, I can't approve of the recent pursuing
My thoughts on the pursuing at the moment is that they are perceived by the WAS as the continuation of the disagreements in the couple. As much as our words may say otherwise, our WW might be telling us that we were very wrong and our insistence to save the M is seen as a rebuttal, no matter how much we repeat "I can change". Letting go might be a way to let them win the argument. That's why it's so important to let go.
Good luck with the certification.
Hi Jim With all due respect to Mozza I disagree. I think after 9 months it's ok to say something like you did. The WAS does feel remorse at some stage and maybe a comment like yours just shows them that maybe you are open to an R at some stage as oppose to you hating them forever !!!!!!
Have a great holiday. Rd
Hey Jim, I imagine you are in transit somewhere just now, with two excited bunnies in tow. I hope you have a lovely time. I don't see any great harm in your statement above, which comes on the back of months of no pursuit....don't worry about it & enjoy your trip!
(((Jim)))
I see how we might want to be kind to each other and I was the grateful recipient of this kindness recently on these boards when I cried in front of WW at a school show. But I also think that we're here to support each other in DBing, first and foremost. It's about saving ourselves and reducing the harm on our sitches to save some chances of R. MWD is very clear that we should cut all pursuit from the start and it's very high on the list of 37 rules put together under sandi2's name. As much as I know where this came from, because I have a lot of it in me, I think the best was we can be helpful is to remind jim0987 that his W is irked by his pursuit, not attracted. Of course, some might disagree and think (hope) that she's made to rethink her position, but then it's not really the DB way.
Hi Jim,
Hope you are having lots of fun with your kiddos.
Enjoy it!!!!!
Pink
Just catching up Jim.
Exam results?
V
Good morning all.
Well its been a busy couple of weeks and will be for the next couple as well which amongst everything else has meant very little time awake and on my own which meabs I've not had a chance to check the boards. I will try to see what I've missed when I get a chance.
A few things to update on from me.
Well I had started to suspect all was not rosy in OM land for XW but turns out I was way off as she has decided to introduce him to the kids. We agreed that we would tell each other before doing something like that and she kept up her end by texting me last night.
I won't pretend otherwise it was like a gut punch, but that's because I'd allowed my hope to grow. Ruined my mood for a few hours even though I was in a restaurant with old and very good friends.
I replied with a 'thank you for telling me, I hope it goes well'
It reminded me its not what I want in The slightest and has made me want to tell her that, to tell her how much I still love her but equally I know that doesn't do anyone any good and it certainly won't stop her progressing her R with OM1 or encourage her to want to reconcile with me. So I won't be saying anymore to her than I have already.
All I can do is move on.
So on that line the me based update. Well I aced the exam, though people seemed disappointed I didn't get full marks. It raised some personal questions for me as once again it was something where I really could have tried a lot harder but didnt. This makes no sense as the only person that has any impact on is me.
It's like I don't try so I have an excuse if I fail or so I can act all nonchalant if I pass. I love the fact I can just wing everything but I'm getting annoyed that I'll still do that even when it makes no sense to - its something I'm trying to explore with my IC
My holiday with the kids was amazing. I loved having them for so much time (13 of 15 nights) and it really helped my bond with them both. Really tiring though. It was strange to spend that much time with my dad though but was a good case study in NVC - hyper vigilant wounded jackal would be a good description of my dad as standard. But rather than annoyance I felt more sympathy for him about it and got a better sense of where its all coming from.
Anyway so its all been good until I got the update from XW but I realise that any hurt I feel is only because I was duped by my own hope and expectation. I need to put that aside and get on with the show.
I do miss her enormously though.
Take care all
Jim!! Been thinking about you - my most local DB buddy. I'm sorry to hear about W - that's a tough one. But who knows how things are going with OM?? He may be in no way ready for step-parenting & run a mile! As you wisely say - you can only keep moving forward. Mr Bond recently posted that his W didn't speak civilly to him for a long time, and there was OP involved. But they ultimately R. Made me think of your sitch & wonder if reading his threads may help you?
Your exam comments made me think of Brene Brown! Daring greatly doesn't come without risk of failure. Have you read her stuff or seen the TED talks? When I was working & studying, I sometimes did just enough to pass. There's only so much of us to go around and we can't give our all to everything.
Good job with the trip & your Dad BTW! If you're looking for me, I decided to post in midlife crisis for my new thread....
Take care lovely Jim!! ((((Jim))))
So its been quite the emotionally draining week....
I'll keep this short but XW has said she is introducing OM1 to the kids on Saturday and she has taken her profile of the dating site, so assumption is its going well. She did acknowledge that she knows it hurts me which is something I guess. She hasn't noticed that she seems to have picked the weekend of father's day for the introduction.
A couple of exchanges since which have been more cordial and chatty still short but different from silence. If I had to guess I would say that having properly told me she can be more open (her last exchange included that she was on her way back from London which is where OM lives) and that helps her relax a bit.
On Monday I was at a work thing and sat next to me was my XF who I haven't seen in about 6 years. Let's just say it was odd. I apologised to her for hurting her in the way I did and said I was glad she was happy now. We had a brief chat and I found it tricky.
I now have over a week until I see the kids again which is hard.
So all in all pretty tricky emotionally.
Oh and foo fighters got cancelled which upsets my plans for the weekend significantly.
All said and done though I don't feel too bad just a bit sad. Will be fine by Monday and I'm being outwardly positive in the meantime.
Have a good evening folks
All is not lost, Jim. Florence and the Machine will be there.
Hi Jim. Good to hear from you. Glad holiday went well. Good news o. The exams and I tottaly get the don't care in case analogue
Re kids meeting OM. Your taking it way better than I would Your post shows a real level of maturity
No advice on this but to relax. Again Toots is right. I also saw about MrBond , patience seems to be key
Take care mate. Rd
Jim, I'm sorry to hear about this weekend - that's hard. And tough that it all happens when you are without the kids for a week and it is Father's Day too. This is where I wish I could give you a call and take you off down to the pub for a drink and a good old chat...Hopefully you'll come up with a nice little plan for the weekend, despite the circumstances.
As you say, things may be on an 'up' phase with your W and OM just now. But it wasn't long ago that she was seeking to date - so my guess is things may be quite fragile.
It's good that your W is more open I think. A fragile trust perhaps. But that may be something to build on. Thanks for posting on my thread, and for your question - it's much appreciated. Can I ask the same question back? How do you feel about it??
Take care Jim - and keep posting (((Jim)))
Firstly, congrats on the exams, sounds quite an achievement to me!
Secondly congrats, moooooose and cheeeeeese
Who knows about OM? Most As don't work out, you handled it well. Besides isn't WW on dating sites with PF?
Peace
V
Hi Sweetie,
First a big ((((((((Jim)))))))))
The news from your WW are really painful and I think you did a amazing job in your response, like RD said, you showed her real maturity.
On the success stories, there is one that always comes back to me. About this guy that stayed friends with you WAW, and even when she moved in with OM, he helped with the moving. Many times, his WW would call him asking for small favors, and with time it became more frequently.
The story has a happy end for him. His WW got tired of the OM, after awhile the routine started to rotten the hot romance, and she tough that it would be better to stay in a safe port.
Since BD, people tell me some crazy stories, some people I even know. Just last week, a couple that have been divorced for 5 years, decided to get married again.
So, who knows, everything is possible. Now, congrats for not letting it all get to you so deep that will leave you paralyzed.
You are doing your GAL, making yourself better and growing your knowledge no matter if with A's or a little less then that.
Perfectionism does not translate happiness, so relax and let it go, you are doing great.
It's nice you can understand and be closer to your Dad, it means a lot to you and will probably means even more to him.
Have a nice weekend, will be thinking of you and sending you peace in your heart. Keep making your life better. You never know who could be landing on your path.
Lots of hugs to you, you need them.
Pink
Very magnanimous with your reply Jim. I don't think I could have done that just yet even with my new found detachment.
... It raised some personal questions for me as once again it was something where I really could have tried a lot harder but didn't. This makes no sense as the only person that has any impact on is me.
It's like I don't try so I have an excuse if I fail or so I can act all nonchalant if I pass. I love the fact I can just wing everything but I'm getting annoyed that I'll still do that even when it makes no sense to - its something I'm trying to explore with my IC.
Now this, I can totally relate to and I've also been discussing it with my IC, although I need to find a new one now as that paid for course has finished.
Why is it that I don't try? Fear of failure? Fear of success? Fear of being found out that I'm a fraud? Fear of not being good enough? A combination of all of these and more?
It's good to hear you had a good time with your kids. Mine help me enormously. I wish I cold see them more than once a fortnight.
Hi Jim know did the weekend go ? Hope you still have the PMA Drop an update when your ready mate
Take care. Rd
Hi all.
Quick update as I'm overseas again with work.
I asked my XW if I could see the kids this morning as its father's day. She agreed and I had a couple of hours at the park with them. It was nice but both the kids were in a 'I want mummy' mood which is heartbreaking for me.
OM1 was introduced and from D4s perspective it went well as she told me all about him and his flat in London.
When I dropped the kids back we had a chat that went along the lines of
J: I'm glad the introduction went well, D4 seems to like him
XW: she's only met him once
J: well it seems like it went OK and he makes you happy which is the important thing.
At that point S2 said bye daddy and started closing the door on me. (Even when he's throwing me out he's very cute)
When I got back to mine I sent her a text thanking her for sorting out the father's day card and present from the kids and also saying (because I know how much she misses her dad) that I know its not the easiest day for her and that I hope she has a nice time with the kids.
There's no way I didn't come across as a hurt and sad about the developments but at the same time it's also clear I'm getting on with my life.
She made her choice and that's it really.
So that leads me onto Toots reflecting a question back at me. How do I feel about divorce. Inevitable is the short answer.
How do I feel about my wife. Well I still love her, as much as the day I married her. And I'm sad that I don't get share my life with her but I also recognise that she is happier this way and all I wanted was for her to be happy so I can be at peace with what's happened even if I don't like it.
I had my chance and for all the whys and where fors, for 4 years she was miserable and felt alone. Whether all of it was my fault or none of it, doesn't actually matter as what she felt is how she felt. And she wanted out.
All i can do now is accept that, and live my life accordingly.
Second best is that she lives a long and happy life with OM1 and that he is a good stepdad to my kids. I may or may not meet someone new but I will be OK regardless.
So onward is all I can do and I'm slowly figuring out the positives in that.
So turns out not as quick an update as I thought.
Have a good evening all
Hi Jim. You did really well mate. I can't really comment on kids merging OM other than say you hsndle it really well.
Tough time for you but you sound ok As for meeting someone else , your only a young man and you have a long future ahead of you. Life will be good again and Jim will be happy
Take care. Rd
Good morning from a sunny UK.
More drama this week but 90% of it is in my reactions. On Tuesday I got a message from XW asking if I was overseas as she had been taken to hospital.
I was but am not sure how she knew this??? Anyway I was on my way back and so told her what time I'd be home and offered any support she needed. I got a short response about 4 hours later saying she was home and the kids were safe.
Ive heard nothing from her since though have the texted once each day to offer well wishes and see if she needs anything. The kids nursery said she was still unwell on Thursday. Anyway I think the silence is a pretty clear message. I do hope she is better and its nothing serious.
D4 has continued to talk about OM1's flat and 'mummy kissing him' which is always unpleasant to hear about, but again reaffirms where I am in my situation.
I also found out some stuff yesterday about D4s induction for starting school which my XW has known about for a while but not mentioned. I'll admit I'm annoyed by this just as I was when She gave me permission to be involved on D4s first day of school. It's feels like she doesn't feel she has to communicate with me at all except when she wants me to do something for her. I wonder if I should be doing something different but then remember patientmans posts about conducting yourself how you wish to be regardless of the reaction you get.
So away from my situation I've just been really busy with work but I'm making progress on a lot of things which always feels good, I've also started tackling some of the HR things I've been avoiding - not fun but needs doing.
I've got the kids this weekend and we've got quite a few things planned so come Sunday night I would expect to be shattered.
So overall nothings changed but I'm feeling a bit worn down by it all at the moment, but at the same time I'm actually OK.
Have a nice weekend
Jim, that sounds like a bit of a rough week. I'm sorry to hear that my friend.....
It's a little odd that your W would tell you she's in hospital, receive texts of concern from you and just not reply. I can see it must feel disheartening. But I would stay steady in your course and see it as the natural ebb and flow within your sitch. There will come a time when your W will respond more warmly again I'm sure.
Sounds like she has had a pretty rough time of it, so I hope she feels better soon. When you see her, I would ignore the fact she never responded and just say you were sorry to hear she wasn't well and hope all is better now.
We all have these downer phases. Everything sounds rosy with OM, she's being cool with you and so on. But we all know that these sitches can turn in a moment.....but it's long haul stuff. The whole 'it's a marathon' thing can sound a bit trite when you consider the reality of slogging through as you are doing. I admire you Jim - and someone out there is going to be very lucky to share your life in future. I hope that is your W....but there is a good life ahead for you I'm sure.
Sorry you are dealing with some HR stuff (I work in HR!!!) Hope things go as smoothly as they can for you. And I hope you have a lovely weekend too - sunshine and little ones - a lovely mix....picnic in the park anyone??
xx
Hi Jim. Tough to hear about D re OM stuff. Best to put that out of your mind as best you can
W texting you about hospital was a strange one Seems the connection between you both is there for her but buried deep
Re W and OM seem g rosy , last night I was watching a film with D14'and S16 and surfing the net I was reading about women that leave their husbands for OM
Their were about 10 women posting about thier new lives and 7 of them weren't happy and wanted home but still loved OM , 2 of them were very happy with OM but wished they had tried harder to save their M and only one who thought she had done the right thing and even she advised a newcomer to try everything to fix her M before she left for OM
I took from the website that nothing is as it seems when it comes down t it
I once read a quote from a guy on death row. He said he would do anything to change his sitch but it was what is was and he had to get on with it.
Who know if your W is feeling this way or not ? positive thought for the day, maybe she is !!!
I'm head of HR in my company but also head of sweeping floors !!! ! Sweeping the floors is easier !!
Good to see you posting mate.
Take care. Rd
Jim
Have you got an online calendar?
Wouldn't the first day at school be on it?
V
Hi all.
Im not feeling too down just a bit bashed around emotionally. I'll see XW tonight so will ask how she is doing then, hopefully she is better and it was nothing serious.
As for why she told me, my take is that she only said anything because she thought she might need me to look after the kids for a bit. I bet I was still considered in the negative for out of the country though. :p
V, Ive had the first day of school booked off work since way before BD, not a chance was I not going to be there to take my little girl to school for the first time. I was upset that XW thought she got decide my involvement in key events in my kids life - it reflects that XW and I have been very different on these things. I would say I have been very open and considerate with everything to do with the kids.
I suggested a shared online calendar, got crickets.
HR stuff is one of those things when you have staff. It has to be done but is never pleasant. Generally with a grievance I find the person complaining is actually the problem. It must be enormously frustrating for HR people to have this stuff everyday.
Have a good day all
Thanks for the clarification Jim.
V
Hi jim0987,
Just a quick hello to say that I've caught up with your sitch. It has been a rough couple of weeks. As we always say, it's a marathon and we need to focus on ourselves. Didn't you mention something about dating a while back?
Hi jim! Just wanted to pop in and offer my hugs and support. Sorry you have had a rough go emotionally. Hang in there. Thinking of you and your children.
Molly sends a wag your way.
Good Morning All,
well its been a few days since i last updated so i thought i would post an update about what was going on with me, and the answer is a bit of a not much really.
So
XW update first: we had a school visit from D4s new school to my house for which my wife came round for. she was in my house for about an hour and didnt move from a rigid position on the sofa, wouldn't accept a drink even though it was 35 degrees (90s F) and didnt seem able/willing to engage in small talk about anything other than the kids - not even the weather and for a brit that's just weird
saw her again the next day when she came to collect D4, again no conversation. D4 was watching the last 2 minutes of a film and so i invited her to wait inside but she refused saying she wanted to wait on the doorstep as she 'isnt comfortable coming in'. she did complain that it was taking too long but if it was 5 minutes total then i'd be surprised. If I had to speculate its because she now associates this house with all her misery and it reminds her of how awful she felt everything was, but thats just speculation.
she has now booked a holiday with them for the end of summer, i resisted the urge to ask if OM1 is going, because he probably is and what difference does me worrying about it make? (rhetorical)
I'm sticking with being chatty and positive regardless of the reaction i get from her.
me update next. well things are ok, I've been able to start running again which has been good. I've been pretty busy with work and things are going well. I had a surprisingly positive performance review given how shocking my performance was between BD and christmas. my boss said something to the affect of 'you kept your head above water and didnt let anything important drop, given what was going on in your life i couldnt expect anything more'
it made me realise that actually at work i've had a lot of good support from a number of people (they all dislike my XW now). and to think before BD i was thinking of leaving - i didnt realise the good that i have there.
Socially things have dropped off as people all seem just busy doing other things. I could have gone to visit my brother this weekend but didnt feel like it so im home doing chores (like cutting hedges and sorting the junk in the garage).
I keep thinking about how best to move forward with my life, to give it some sense of purpose beyond work and my kids because although im ok, in truth it all feels a little flat. Which is stupid because although things arent as comfortable as they were my life is actually good in nearly every sense.
Mozza, you asked about dating, its a strange thing in that i want a relationship with someone but i really dont want to date. I went on a couple but it just seems too complicated and i was just comparing them to my XW which is never a good thing. I was also reminded how difficult i find it to read people and pick up on signals. I'll stay open to it but who knows what will happen.
I'm not sure where that leaves all this, I suspect it all comes accross like there is something wrong but there really isn't.
Anyway, have a good weekend all and Happy 4th July to all the americans on here, or BD as it was for us in the UK as the geopolitical LBS
Hello lovely Jim! I realised the other day I don't ask for editing support from the board much any more. I just tend to reply to my H and be done with it....progress hopefully as I worry rather less what he may think.
Glad to hear from you, and sorry things are feeling a bit flat. Sounds like your W is in a cool phase for sure. It interests me that she remains so phenomenally uncomfortable in your home and presence. It isn't apathy or disinterest for sure and it tells me that she hasn't processed and move on. Strangely the extreme discomfort gives me hope for you. Although I can appreciate it may not feel 'hopeful' when it happens.
Sorry it's a quieter weekend than you would ideally like. That happens to me sometimes and I tend to try and add in another GAL option for longer term fullness of life. The ladies club I am in is linked to the Round Table movement. There is a younger version of what I'm in for 30-45s - separate male and female clubs...but they have some links. Would you consider joining anything like that? I'm enjoying it so far....
Pleased for you on the work front and great that you got a good review (I expected no less
) It's nice that your boss recognises the challenges you have faced and how well you have done. I used the phrase keeping my head above water in my own sitch in the early days. Sometimes that is as much as we can do and I'm pleased to be beyond those days.
As you say Jim, it's just a normal day here. But I'm choosing to celebrate my own 'independence' which I'm enjoying just now. I hope you enjoy getting some jobs done, relaxing, reflecting on life and so on.
Have a good weekend xx
Hi Jim. Sounding ok. The work thing is good. If you can get a decent review during your hardest times them that great
Your EXW sounds like she has issues. I often wonder if the WAS over thinks all this as much as us. Your W not coming I to the house feels like she is trying to punish you through punishing herself I could understand if there was a traumatic experience or the like in the past linked to the house but she left for other reasons so who knows.
Re moving forward. This is so personal that I can't even offer advice is there any hobbies that you ever wanted to try ? Any places you would like to visit. Dublin for example. I would love to meet up a discuss each other's W !!!
On the dating thing , I have dabbled but it was not for me The lady was very pretty , very intelligent and seemed interested but it wasn't W and I suppose it never will be. I think it's a case of getting out there and meeting people. Your still a young man and you'll come accross that someone special one day
Questioning your self and your life is a good thing because it means your living for now and not dwelling in the past
Take care Jim. , Rd
Jim
You have plenty of time to move on and date. some can do that quickly and others of us need time and space.
When the time is right for you the fat lady will sing. I internet promise you my lovely Jim.
I agree with Toots, your WW isn't at indifference mode but is still in mixed up.
Rest awhile, take your time, enjoy your children. Relax.
V
V, RD and Toots thank you.
Toots, this is one of those rare occasions where i don't agree with you. If she was just uncomfortable around me then i might agree but her view of me is somewhere slightly worse than V's H. she feels like (and has said to other people) she is escaping years of abuse - her sister was actively encouraging her to get the police involved - and so from that perspective I can see why she is uncomfortable but i don't see it as a reason for hope.
V, ^^^ this is one of the reasons i find it very difficult to post on your thread these days. I always read it but simply don't know what to say.
RD, I'm actually visiting Dublin in December. I am planning a holiday for next year when the XW takes the kids to florida I just need to decide where (and work out how to pay for it
)
although the where is part of the issue because i've always been more bothered about who i go with rather than where i go. awful places are great in the right company. I'm determined to do something good though.
Toots, I did go to a couple of local round table things but unfortunately the timing just doesn't work with my childcare schedule. I've been going to local meetups when i can but as for something regular then im pretty limited. Its not bad though and I got a bunch of stuff done today - my car will even fit in the garage now.
as for dating, well i may not have RD's allure but I'm sure i'll meet someone at somepoint. until then i can enjoy taking up the whole sofa.
one last thing to correct the balance and agree with Toots. I dont ask for scripting help much anymore either, because i just respond in a friendly way. Its definitely good progress.
So
XW update first: we had a school visit from D4s new school to my house for which my wife came round for. she was in my house for about an hour and didnt move from a rigid position on the sofa, wouldn't accept a drink even though it was 35 degrees (90s F) and didnt seem able/willing to engage in small talk about anything other than the kids - not even the weather and for a brit that's just weird
It is my belief, based on my reading of DB and some therapy, that your wife is engaged in an argument with you. She is making a point: she resents you deeply and wants you to agree that you have hurt her. She may not say it in words, but she speaks with her actions. Not talking about the weather is a good example of someone sending a message. "Don't change the topic." Same for not coming inside the home. I don't buy into the idea that it gives her flashbacks. She acts angry, not fragile.
I'm sticking with being chatty and positive regardless of the reaction i get from her.
If my theory is correct, then this is not the ideal reaction because it is your way of holding to your part of the argument with her. She tells you: "Things are bad and awful, you hurt me and you will suffer for what you've done!" and your attitude responds "Nope, things are good!" Every time you say "Bloody rain, right?" she hears "Get over it". It tells her that you don't hear her, that you don't get what she's trying to say, that you're trying to move along.
It's like the silent treatment. One wants the other to understand something through the silence. They will stay away, or walk loudly with their lips tightly shut, or openly avoid discussion such as at the kitchen table. These are all very loud messages, communications. Now imagine that in response to the silent treatment, the other spouse is chatty and positive. The silent spouse will be even more offended and will try harder to make the chatty spouse understand that the situation is serious, most likely that they have been hurt and it calls for an acknowledgement and atonement.
You might say that you've already told her that you realize how much you've hurt her and that you've apologized at length for it. It is likely not sufficient for her. It doesn't match the hurt you caused her. It would be a cop out. Talking is cheap. I'm not even sure what would be the right way for you to act, but it would have to be something that tells her "You're right". Maybe what you need to do is to stop offering her what she doesn't want, what feels like you're ignoring her pain. No more "come inside" or "what a lovely day, surely it won't last". It doesn't mean to be less cordial.
I can't seem to develop this idea entirely at the moment, but hopefully it is some food for thought already.
Mozza, you asked about dating, its a strange thing in that i want a relationship with someone but i really dont want to date. I went on a couple but it just seems too complicated and i was just comparing them to my XW which is never a good thing. I was also reminded how difficult i find it to read people and pick up on signals. I'll stay open to it but who knows what will happen.
I'll agree that if you're still looking for your WW, then you're not ready. I had the same inclination, and pretty intense, for months on end. I found every other women to be ugly. It passed. It had to. I don't think I could have dated prior to this. How do you expect that it will pass? Just time or anything active that you can do?
Jim
If you are finding it hard to post to my thread then that is saying something to you. There is a resistance to acceptance of something for you.
It's ok, just say 'hi' and I can post back. Jim, You have been very influential in my journey and i say that with enormous gratitude.
Abuse is hard to write about and to read the story is very tough too. In many ways that has been very open raw and confusion which is naked in its discussion. It is as it is.
All of this is going to be a great deal of work and requires support, not all of us have a quickly finished journey. There is much to know and learn .
Jim, you are a wonderful young man and father with great depth and insight, I just wish you could see that which I see, love, kindness and strength.
Take your time, it's going to be alright in the end.
Great hugs and peace
V
Jim, I agree with V! It's interesting that your W sees things in that way. I had forgotten how she sees things in that regard, but now you say, I do recall that.
With the passage of time and given her perception and feedback, how do you feel about your behaviour and approach during the M? I recall your W felt you weren't there for her when her Dad died, and I can see she might find it hard to forgive that. What were the other 'worst' things she felt you did and didn't do? (feel free if you don't want to go there if it is painful or an unwanted avenue.)
As Mozza says, regardless of attracting back your W, do you feel happy within yourself that you have apologised and made amends for your part in the M dynamics?
Interesting what you say about being reluctant to post on the abuse thread. Perhaps that in itself may be a good reason to do just that. Remember Jim, you are among friends here.
Take care, T xx
Morning all,
Toots its not any more painful whether i talk about it or not. It hurts to think that she feels like that about me when i know full well how much i have always loved her and how i never wished to hurt her.
when I tried to talk to her she has always said theres no point because its all in the past. All i ever got was 'you were just so awful' 'you were never there for me' 'you always let me down' but not really much in the way of specifics.
what i found out from snooping in those first couple of months is that she described me as 'controlling, abusive and mean' and that I 'drove a wedge between her family and friends'
So I started to list this then backed off because it didn't seem worth it as I've said it all before and so tried to summarizes but then realized that I'm doing that because its really uncomfortable for me because it looks awful in a list like that and without balance.
but to avoid all that and take some responsibility i need to not duck it. so here it is (Caution: lengthy)
- when we thought she had a miscarriage (she didnt and d4 came along). I took her to hospital and stayed until the doctors said everything was fine. they wanted to run some more tests and she should stay but I had to go to work. XW said it was ok so i went and she had to get a cab home. Dr said it was fine so in my mind it was just a scare, i entirely didn't recognise the emotional impact the scare had.
- after D4 was born, she got really homesick (i still believe she suffered from PND) and wanted to move back home (about 3hrs away). I said that i would only move when we found jobs to go to. I didnt want to give up my career to go and be with her family.
- after the hen night incident (she met her ex boyfriend and lied about it) i didnt react well. I spent a a few weeks not feeling comfortable using the loving nickname i always used for her so stopped which i knew hurt her but carried on anyway.
- after the wedding, and over a couple of months, I also asked a lot of questions about her past (this was my insecurities coming through) and discovered a lot of stuff that i didnt know about her past including physical abuse (we were married by this point). I struggled to process and sort some help from an IC but actually the IC suggested a bunch of stuff that seemed to make things worse.
My XW has said that over this period i 'obliterated' her self esteem.
- shortly afterward her dad died. while we were down for the last few days of his life i found myself isolated with D4 (who was 1 at the time) while XW was close to her family. I felt very shut out and became very withdrawn. on the day he died they decided we all should go to a park for a walk (which had very bad associations for me in relation to XW). I was very withdrawn at the park but that was fine as they didnt want to engage with me. a few things happened and we then had a row in the park about how she was ignoring me and our daughter.
- This affected her grieving for her dad and she has said she felt like she couldnt cry in front of me. This is mainly because when she did i had no idea how to comfort her and so did what i always do which is try to use humour to lighten the mood and do practical things. I can give a lengthy explanation of why this is but lets just say she didnt feel supported by me even though in my mind i was really trying.
- when S2 was born she was really struggling but i only took 2 weeks paternity leave, she wanted me to take more but i didnt feel i could.
- She regularly complained that i had said something to upset her or have a dig, she would say i just chipped away at her. But i still dont understand what i said or did. often she said it when i felt she had just had a go at me about something.
- she complained about the way we dealt with some things in the house like deciding what colour to paint a wall. I always suggested a compromise which meant she didnt get what she wanted but she just saw that as me getting my way.
- when she was sad or in a mood (which felt like all the time) i didn't really engage with her on it, i just kind of pretend it wasn't happening and tried to be positive. this was me being conflict avoidant.
- she felt like i had put to much pressure on her with her work, i thought i was being supportive and encouraging by suggesting she could easily go for promotion and do her bosses job, she felt i was pressuring her. (she has since had said promotion)
- fairly regularly, when we went to see her family (once a month) I would have some sort of sulk usually again because i would just end up on childcare duty (sometimes for our 2 plus SIL's 2) being ignored by everyone else. by sulk i mean withdrawn and a bit grumpy.
- I would also sulk when i felt like XW was going against something i thought we had agreed in relation to raising the kids
- by the last year there was a bunch of other stuff in our relationship dynamic that triggered me to be withdrawn and grumpy, for example comments to make clear there was no chance of sex when i'd only tried to hug, if i was asked my opinion then getting a lengthy explanation of why my opinion was wrong, and just a bunch of other little stuff.
- ultimately we both just felt we were walking on egg shells, me because it felt like nothing was ever good enough and i just wanted her to be interested in us (I thought just keep giving her time and space and it will be fine). her because she though i would have a sulk and say something mean.
- I absolutely never told her anywhere near enough how much i loved her, was proud of her and wanted our life together to work out
So although that's 4 years compressed its pretty terrible reading from my perspective. i do think i see far worse regularly in couples that seem happy, but ultimately she didn't feel like i was there for her in any kind of emotionally supportive way - and in truth i wasn't I didn't/don't know how (certainly wasn't a lack of willingness on my part).
so the learning points for me:
- I don't tackle things directly, i ask questions and am more circumspect
- I was never clear about how i was feeling with XW except when it was very negative
- i need to learn to recognize emotions in other people and much more appropriate reactions (the support I've received since BD has really opened my eyes to what comforting looks like)
- I need to be much, MUCH, more aware of how what i say do, makes people think and feel
- I need to sulk less, preferably never.
- and i need to remember that i don't know what is going on in other peoples heads.
i'm just going to say this for clarity. I've never hit her or raised a hand, I've never called her names, I've rarely sworn in front of her and rarely raised my voice to her. I wasn't disparaging about her nor dismissive of the things she did. I was supportive of her ambitions and i didn't control the finances and i certainly haven't run up debts. I don't gamble, smoke do drugs or drink and i did plenty round the house and have been fully involved with my kids since the day the were born and a half dozen times she phoned me in tears at work to say she couldnt cope and so i dropped everything and came home.
So in terms of apology, well i have said it and i wrote her a letter a few weeks after BD, apologising. I do feel genuine remorse for all of the above and wish i could go back and do so much so different not just for the sake of our M but because she deserved so much more and so much better.
OM1 is the big discrepancy here in that we both know she has lied extensively about him and his involvement and because i'm not willing to say i agree she was right to leave and that OM1 had nothing to do with it then i dont think she will ever be satisfied with the level of apology - I feel she wants absolution rather than an apology.
as for why i find it difficult to post on V's thread - well i think thats for a different day but i have a better understanding of why it is
No idea if that helps or is even interesting but hopefully answers your question Toots. For me it is why i don't have any hope for my situation even if reconciliation is still what i want
Mozza,
Thanks for your input.I think i know what your getting at.
me moving on and being ok suggests to her that i still don't get it and therefore haven't changed in the slightest.
However, im not really sure what that means i should do differently as being positive and trying to move on is the best thing for me and the best thing for my kids.
your thoughts and suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Jim
These are very important posts, some of the most important healing posts that you have written.
We all have behaviours in our M that shame us. I recollect opening my heart about screaming banshee, abuse if ever there was. We discussed this many months ago, the shame of the screaming and the fact that I felt that "contempt was not a boundary for me".
Bless you Jim, you challenged that, and changed my view.
Nothing that you have said or done is the cause of WW going wayward on you.
Some of your past behaviour is unacceptable to the Jim as is now, and frankly not good and certainly not affirming of an M. You can not change that Jim, it is done and over.
Jim is a different Jim to that which was. It is hard to let go of that past Jim for you. It seems to me that you could chose to say "that Jim is behind me, and I am renewed."
Jim it is going to be OK, you will be healed and you can forgive yourself.
Peace and big hugs
V
Jim, I think that so much of that sounds like the build up of trials and tribulations of marriage and some communication that wasn't effective, assumptions being made, unmet expectations, pressures of family and so on. Some 'nice guy' stuff and I'm sure your W bought things to the table too.
For me it all adds up to - it isn't easy to have a good M! - there's a lot to learn and a lot to get wrong and to go wrong. It sounds to me as though there was some justification going on when your W was telling others you were controlling and so on..
My advice would be to learn what you can from it for your next R - whether that be reconciled with your W, or some other lucky woman - and keep moving forward. And remember the mantra - never lose hope. No matter how dark or how bleak things may seem. It is still relatively early days with your sitch and still volatile with OM in the picture. As time goes on, who knows what may happen.
I hope you had a nice 'Jim-centric' weekend xx
[quote=jim0987]If my theory is correct, then this is not the ideal reaction because it is your way of holding to your part of the argument with her. She tells you: "Things are bad and awful, you hurt me and you will suffer for what you've done!" and your attitude responds "Nope, things are good!" Every time you say "Bloody rain, right?" she hears "Get over it". It tells her that you don't hear her, that you don't get what she's trying to say, that you're trying to move along.
I think this is some really interesting insight, Mozza. Can you please hook me up with your IC?
So Jim, I think I'm in a somewhat similar boat to what Mozza writes about above. I can see that my H just can't (isn't ready to) enjoy my company, which has made our exchanges post BD really tough. Would you ever consider expressing regret over the past in a letter to your W? You know I pondered whether or not to do this in my sitch frequently...but I never did pull the trigger.
On an unrelated note, you mentioned you're able to run again....which reminds me about your foot. Has it taken all that time to heal???
If I recollect you broke your foot about the same time I broke my nail and the end of my big toe.
Ouch.
V
Mozza,
Thanks for your input.I think i know what your getting at.me moving on and being ok suggests to her that i still don't get it and therefore haven't changed in the slightest. However, im not really sure what that means i should do differently as being positive and trying to move on is the best thing for me and the best thing for my kids.
your thoughts and suggestions would be very much appreciated.
I'm not sure what you should do either. I'm just thinking out loud with you here.
I don't think it's the fact that you're moving on that is potentially problematic with her. The opposite would suggest that you think the offenses were minor and can be forgiven. Moving on, quite the opposite, suggests that you see the extent of the damage and accept your fate.
The problem would be that you act as if you two could have a normal relationship, post-S. It's hard to assess through your posts, but it comes across as if you're trying to be "friendly", which is more than "cordial". You invite her, you chat about the weather, you ask about her day, her problems. This is not the behavior of someone who thinks "I've been awful to you". If you'd kill you neighbor's dog, would you go up to them and offer coffee and be chatty? It would be inappropriate, at least until they reach out to you.
My theory is based on the idea that your wife wants you to recognize the extent of the damage you caused her (in her mind at least) and that we only really speak convincingly through our actions. This is the argument that she wants to win. Once you've made that "emotional payment" to her, she'll relax. It's as in any argument: recognizing where we are wrong is often the first step to a resolution. I know you've done it with your words, but she needs to see it in your actions.
I'm not saying this will lead to R, but the feeling of having won this argument will likely give her a sense of safety around you. It's like people who were cheated on: they need the cheater to show real and extensive remorse. It gives them confidence that they share the pain they have caused and hence are less likely to do it again.
Again, this is just some water-cooler discussion and pop psychology, but I thought maybe it could help you understand your WW's behavior towards you and adjust accordingly.
Mza,
I think I read you.
My take is a little modification, we can be sorry or atoning for the affect something has, without completely accepting responsibility for another's behaviour and role.
I am sorry that you drove your car into the gate trying to avoid the bike I left lying on the path. Let me help repair the damage with you. Yes I can see you are upset.
Validation.
V
Hi Jim,
I just wanted to stop by and inform you that you are in my thoughts and prayers. I have caught up, for the most part, on your situation. I agree 100% with Vanilla: "Nothing that you have said or done is the cause of WW going wayward on you."
Peace to you, my friend, and may each day be better than the previous. Hang in there. You CAN do this.
Your friend,
Bob
Hi lovely Jim. Yes, I can see Mozza's take on this and agree there are risks with being over-friendly with your W. Particularly if she is giving vibes of non-receptivity.
IMHO, the best thing to aim for just now is effective co-parenting relationship - which is cordial, constructive, helpful and so on - but doesn't extend as far as 'friends.'
IDK - as others say, your W behaves as the 'wounded party' but actually she had her own part in this and betraying your vows with a third party is devastatingly hurtful. So I also don't think she is taking responsibility for this.
I think you are doing well Jim, although it may be time to revisit your GAL and see if you want to top up at all. But you are moving forward, you have sorted financials, you're doing well at work, being a good Dad, and interacting reasonably with your W. For all of that I applaud you.
Hang on in there my friend xx
Hi All, Thanks as always for chipping in.
So first up foot update . I broke my foot on christmas eve, entirely self inflicted, and was out for a couple of months. Then just before Easter i fell awkwardly playing squash and after a bit of investigation by the physio and some trial an error she came to the conclusion that i had prolapsed a disc and that was causing nerve issues. That has been healing well but the running seems to have aggravated things a little so I need to take it a bit easier. I also think I need to buy a bike and try lower impact for a while.
Next general update
After my flat weekend the week has stayed relatively flat as well, I really don't have enough lined up for the times I don't have the kids. Having said that time with the kids is good and I'm taking them to a little local music festival at the weekend.
On the whole i'm feeling like I'm lacking purpose and motivation to do anything other than keep trudging along and with that its difficult to feel much joy. I've talked about this with my IC and we are trying to figure out why this is and what i can do about it although she has suggested I try dating.
Its difficult to know what to say really, with work and the kids i don't get a huge amount of time but what i do get i struggle to fill. It seems like everything that happens locally happens on days I have the kids.
Just as an aside, a few posts ago i said i ran into my XF from many years ago and apologised for all the upset and hurt I caused when I left. Well it seems she then sent a message to both my brother and my dad to say she was really grateful for that and its given her some closure.
lastly responding to mozza and thanks again for your thoughts on this.
I'm not sure how it comes across here so i'll try and clarify. I'm friendly but its at the cordial end, I will say general things like 'have a nice weekend' but i don't ask how she is (except when she was hospitalized) or what shes been doing (since the answer is OM1, I dont need to hear that). I'm chatty and polite but always about the kids although i will extend what i think is normal courtesy to her, so for example saying she doesn't need to wait on the doorstep. I didn't invite her in for a coffee or anything like that though.
I did send her a basic Happy Birthday message yesterday and had sorted out cards and presents from the kids, nothing elaborate though.
I could rein back a little on the chattiness and if i mirrored her then there would be no superfluous words like 'hi' but I don't want to behave like that, its not me and I don't think its a good example for the kids.
I've apologised in words, I've made this whole thing as easy as possible on her and i have quietly gone away as far as two people who share kids can do. Except for saying something to fully absolve her i'm not sure what else there is i can do.
It feels like my XW feels she is absolutely the victim and she has done nothing wrong at any stage. The only things she has admitted to as her mistakes/part in the failure of our M are 'getting married when she wasn't sure' 'settling for what she knew wasn't good enough' and 'not leaving sooner'
I have to say I cant recall my XW ever forgiving anyone for anything (other than XSIL for pretty much anything).
as for adjusting accordingly, well i'm not really sure what that looks like.
oh well, it is what it is and I just need to find a way to fully move on.
Hi Jim. No do t really have much to say on EXW. It seems to me she is very angry and you would have to wonder why. She has OM and is living a new life. I've read on here that the worse time is when WAS feels apathy towards you that's clearly not the case in your sitch.
Are you really in a position to show Exw that you have fulllymrealised your part in the M breakdown Maybe in time that opportunity might happen but now it would be very difficult
Jim ,I am far from an expert so these are just my thoughts. Your Exw is in your life for a long time and no one knows what the future will bring.
Stay strong mate and take care. Rd
Jim, I don't like to think of you just trudging along. It sounds as though you need a little forward momentum, and that GAL would help. lt would be great to have some options for yourself when the kids are with their Mum. I think a particularly useful kind of GAL is flexible GAL. For me that is Aqua Aerobics at the local leisure centre. It is a friendly class and is pay as you go. If I'm busy or tired, I don't always make it. But it's nice to have it there as an option if I feel like going. A couple of options for flexible GAL might make a difference perhaps?
I think your interactions with your W sound fine. And I think you are right to aim for cordial. As you say, that is a good thing for the kids as much as anything else. As for moving fully on. Well it is up to you - as for any of us - what that means and when we do it. Does it mean dating? Does it mean filing for D. Does it mean mentally closing the door to R? I'm not ready to do any of that just yet, and I do worry that it may be difficult to fully move on - but people do, and I guess I can too in time. I think the main thing is to keep moving forward - not trudging along, but enjoying the new (albeit unasked for) opportunities that being single offers. Time with friends, time for hobbies, time for yourself, time to try new things and so on. Seeking out joy, friendship and meaning in your life.
You'll get there Jim - I think you're doing really well x
Now it's my turn to agree with Toots and RD.
I recollect it was WW who proposed to you?
Seems a little history rewrite there.
I wrote two posts on the abuse thread with you in mind, about whether or not there is abuse.
Jimmy seems you still have time.
V
Hi all.
I thought I would post an update although on the whole my situation is pretty stable and peaceful.
XW is still seems very happy with OM, and the kids seem to be getting on with him well.
They have plans for different things coming up which I think of as 'family activities' so my being replaced hurts.
Part time parenting has its advantages, I'm better rested and have been out much more. I can see from my Interaction with XW that it's working well for her because they are able to do couple type activities that you just can't with a toddler in tow.
On the interaction front is pretty unemotional most if the time now. Cordial polite and quick is the best description. It works better by email or at XWs house. At my house she is still very uncomfortable.
Neither of us ever ask how the other is doing or what they are up to. We only communicate about the kids and then only in terms of childcare arrangements.
There seems to be a mutual willingness to be flexible on childcare which is good. I'm definitely the more proactive one on this but then Ive had to ask for more changes to accommodate my work commitments.
It's a stupid thing but I still get bothered by the seemingly different levels if consideration. For example I've suggested changes so that she could have the kids on mother's day where as she has asked for changes that mean I won't see the kids on my birthday without seemingly even recognising it. That's my issue to deal with in terms if how I let stuff like that affect me, because by now I really shouldn't expect any different.
GAL, well I'm filling time without really building anything substantial or feeling really enthusiastic. It's fun but without someone to share stuff with its pretty lonely and on days where I don't have anything planned I struggle to get motivated to get going.
I had a good chat with my IC about my introvert/extrovert nature and how it varies and how my nature gets dominated by other characteristics relating to my self-esteem, fears and ultimately a need for external validation. Not quite sure what to do with it but hopefully it will do me good in the long term.
Im also understanding more about what my M was really like but have to be cautious not to rewrite to much as I don't want to lessen the feelings that my XW had about it.
So overall I'm OK, a bit 'meh' and tired of it all. To be honest I'm tired of still being in love with my XW, it feels a bit pathetic when she has moved on so fully. And I still struggle with knowing that had I done differently, I wouldn't be here.
I'm debating whether filing for divorce is the right thing to do (citing her adultery) as I wonder whether finalising will help me to accept it and move on. But part of it is also because I want her to finally admit that she left me for OM1. I know this is because I feel hurt and vulnerable so want to exercise control.
Instead, I've got a lot to look forward to, including picking a holiday for next spring (thinking the far East), so I need to keep focused on what is good and enjoy what I can.
Hope you are all good, and thanks for reading.
Hey Jim, good to hear from you....hope you've been having a good weekend - pretty nice weather in our part of the world!
I understand what you're saying about your W having moved on (seemingly..) But 'Dad is Dad' no matter what. So you are irreplacable in the eyes of your kids. Also, we all know the fairly predictable trajectory that R's like this take. Some combust quickly, others die slowly - but most don't survive. Who knows, your W's R with OM may be one of the fes that does survive - but we know the stats.
Cordial, polite and quick sounds not too bad Jim. I think it has been worse, and time will only help I believe. I understand on the childcare arrangements, and I think it is an area where you certainly want to choose your battles very wisely indeed. My experience of being married to H and our liaison with his XW, is that the more flexible, helpful we can all be, the better - but it does take time to get to a more comfortable place. And that time is years rather than months in situations like ours.
I hope for your sake that OM does move on as - even if you and your W don't get back together - it's easier for her partner not to be the one who contributed to your M break up.
Sounds like some useful stuff with your IC. Glad for you that this is ongoing. What you said made me think of Brene Brown's stuff. I plan to revisit that at some point soon and take things a bit further there.
I get you on the filing. I'm kind of getting to that place myself. But I would let that one bubble around for a little while perhaps. For me, it has been really important that I didn't bring our M to an end - that H did absolutely everything. He was unfaithful, he filed - it's all on him. But then I wonder if that's a bit mean - rather than me truly wanting to save the M, just not wanting things to be 'on me?'
As for me - yes, I'm also weary of being in love with H still....and giving him valuable head space too. Oh well, we'll get there Jim...
Trip to the Far East sounds fab - something to look forward to anyway xx
Hi Jim. Great words from Toots. , as always ! ! OM and W very unlikely to succeed but you will hopefully be in a place when it happens that you can make decisions based on your true feelings and not just the highs and lows of W doing what she did.
Kids are always a tricky one. I don't really know what to say because mine are that much older and while they obviously love their mum they don't really want her back as she is at the moment.
The Far East sounds great , do you have anywhere in mind It's quite a big place I hear !!
Take care mate. Rd
Jim
Enjoyed your last post.
Hugs
V
Hi All,
I hope you all had a good weekend.
It rained a lot here today but I still had a nice day with the kids. we met some friends at a pub with an indoor play area which was good fun. we came home played some games and baked some cakes. So all good.
When XW came to pick up the kids things weren't quite so good.
I've been feeling quite down about the whole thing for a little while now. From my perspective my XW has this perfect life and I hear from D4 about all the things that she does with XW and OM1 as little family outings and at the same time i can be pretty sure that the times I have the kids they are able to have the kind of happy, fun relationship that XW and I enjoyed before we had kids. I've seen plenty of hard evidence of this.
Anyway, that's just been getting to me because of feeling not only comprehensively replaced but also a mixture of jealously because its the life i wanted with XW, but things got in the way and because in truth I'm really feeling quite lonely. There are only so many nights where I can be sat at home no matter how well I can occupy myself.
There has also been a couple of points of friction with XW during the week but it seemed fine and normal (relatively) when i collected the kids.
Anyway when XW arrived to collect the kids there were a bunch of minor things, not least that she was looking amazing, which reminded me about her new life and how things have changed. On top of the fact she was taking the kids, this upset me (not to the point of crying but definitely upset).
D4 got upset which is fairly usually does and said something about not seeing me enough. I replied that I wish I saw her more as well and we had a good hug and i carried her to the car. She was still upset though. I think she was more upset because I was.
Once D4 was in the car XW stopped to speak to me. she told me that we need to be quicker at handovers and I needed to stop upsetting the children. I told her that D4 was always upset at handovers.
She said she heard what I said to her about not seeing her enough and that I shouldn't say these things and that it wasn't fair. I replied that i understood how she feels but that I'm not going to pretend that I don't wish I could see the kids more. This conversation was repeated a couple of times before XW said that it wasn't good for the kids and that we needed to be positive at handovers.
I said that I usually was but I always want to reassure D4 that I love her and miss her just like I reassure her that XW loves her when she cries because she misses XW.
XW said she does the same but that we need to be the grown ups. There was a small amount of very non aggressive to and fro until I asked what would she like me to say.
She said nothing but repeated about being quick at handovers and some more about being grown up and positive.
At this point I said something like she needs to understand that we are living in very different circumstances from each other. She immediately got a very defensive tone and said I know nothing about her circumstances.
I didn't really comment on this but did say that I always try to make the handovers as easy as possible and that I try to make the interaction with XW as friendly as possible as I think that's best for the kids.
At this points she said that she was going and got in the car and drove off. Because the rain had eased off i got changed and went for a run.
So.......
I reacted emotionally and managed to irritate XW in the process. I don't feel I was mean or horrible but she will almost certainly seen at that way and have gone away with the view that I haven't changed at all, especially given her comments about 'needing to be the grown ups'
I might be putting too much pressure D4, I don't know but I don't want to be telling her I'm happy to see her go because that feels like telling her that its not OK for her to be upset.
I know at the root of this is the hurt I'm still feeling about the whole situation and today it got the better of me. I need to find a way to properly get over her because continuing to be in love with her isn't doing me any good.
If there is some consolation its that there was zero chance of fixing things with XW anyway so its not like I've made it worse.
As always thanks for reading and any advice/analysis is much appreciated.
Hi Jim. Sorry you feeling down but I completly understand Your interactions with D4 are normal. Your not a machine and D4 is your princess and S2 is your baby. Of course you have to let them know you miss them and wish you could be with them more.
This is where the big boy pants come in. Your thier dad and its your job to be there for them and part of that is keeping their sadness to a minimum I don't do handovers so I'm just giving my opinion , positive is the only way to go Phrases like , I'm going to miss you so much BUT I'm so looking forward to doing X and Y next time we are together.
Jim , my heart aches when I think of you having to hand them back to W I'm siting on sofa waiting for the shower to beat up while D14 and D11 lie awake waiting for me to go to bed so they can jump in. I put in my post how lucky I am and reading yours just makes me realise even more
This is so tough and it's reality for now All Jim can do is make the best of it.
Re making things worse or better with W. Let that go She's doing her right now and none of us know what the future holds Of course she appears happy and her life looks great from the outside but who knows what's going on really ?
We all know the stats re affairs so sit back and let time do its thing Re not enough things to do of an evening I would point towards Toots She not only a Gals but appears to find the most exciting GAL possible. Try thinking outside the box and maybe charity work ? I work for myself so I do plenty of that !! !!
Jim. One / two words. Roller coaster !
Time will reveal all and reading your posts to myself and others your one of the good guys and goods things will happen
Take care mate Rd
Hey Jim, good post. I get exactly what you're saying.
You're right, what STBX thinks of you at this point is trivial. What's important is that you ARE changing for YOU. I think about this often. I've changed a lot...but ultimately I can BS everyone on DB, but I have to live with myself, and the R's I create for the rest of my life. Still a long ways to go. That's all that matters, that we stay on this road.
STBX will continue to spin her narrative. Of course you're the immature one. Yeah, because adults walk out on marriages and start shaking up with OM and exposing children to new partners before they can adjust. But you're the bad guy because you tell D you miss her. Pfft. Whatever. Detach and move on.
I know what you mean about feeling left out...it was my house, my dog, on occasion I feel it. Like I've been kicked out of my home, there's a new happy family and I'm peering into the windows at my old life...some type of twighlight zone episode. But not really anymore.
See, in chess they talk about "the space left behind". When your opponent moves a piece in a threatening way it may seem ominous, but while their piece is attacking new squares, it is no longer attacking squares it used to...so often you can take advantage of that.
For me, I'm starting to realize there are benefits to being single again. I still see my kids a lot...but when I'm not here with them I can live like a bachelor. So I get the best of both worlds...single, having fun with my friends and hobbies, reading, whatever...but still being around my children enough to feel I haven't lost my family. And while I don't have STBX anymore, I am cautiously optimistic that I'll have a better partnership with someone in the future. Watch "Louis CK's" bit on Divorce...he talks about how awesome it is for many of these reasons in standard comedic style.
Is this the road I would've chose? Would I prefer being single to being M with a good partner? No. But since I didn't chose it, and have done everything I can to stand by my M...I won't feel even a TRACE of guilt at enjoying the life that I've been given. Zues out.
Z
This is where the big boy pants come in. Your thier dad and its your job to be there for them and part of that is keeping their sadness to a minimum
Jim, honey, this^^^. I know it's hard but forget your W, it's not about her anymore. It's about those precious kids. They are far too young to understand right now. But rest assured that someday they will figure it all out and what you want them to figure out is that you were the one who put them first.
Hey Jim, I'm sorry you had a tough handover. From where I'm sitting, your W reacts in this way because she sees your D hurting and she knows that her recent decisions have contributed towards that. She doesn't want to face that, so it is deflected towards you.
That said, I can see how your response - I wish I could see more of you - could have inflamed things. I don't think it was a terrible response, but it perhaps played into your W's guilt even more. Maybe next time, just validating may be best - 'I know Sweetheart' 'I understand' and so on.
I also think you have have an erroneous perception in respect of your W's life right now. It's all rosy. She and OM have great dates, and a 'new family life.' Well, I can tell you for sure that even if things are rosy right now, it is a glossy veneer. Like gloss paint over a rotting windowsill. R's built on such fragile foundations are precarious at best. And you certainly shouldn't feel like you have been replaced and are peeping through the window of an idyllic life.
As for sitting home alone. I think Zeus is onto something here. I truly understand that you would rather be with the kids all the time. But the fact that you are not brings opportunities - bachelor life! It wasn't what you hoped for, granted. But how can you make the most of this? It sounds as though you may have let GAL slip, and could take the reins a little more in this area.....so let's hear what Jim is going to be getting up to on this front??
I think you are doing so well Jim, and are a lovely presence on this forum. What we all need to recognise is that things play out in their own time. And whilst people blithely say 'it's a marathon' this reflects a reality of many months of little or no movement, and then some more months etc etc. And this is truly why patience is so important.
So, time to start shifting your perspective about their 'fairytale family/hot dates life' and further building up your own life, so that you are living a fulfilling life alone for now.
Take care lovely Jim xx
This is your experience of it Jim and it's ok to miss the kids, no matter WW views.
I like RDs comment for soothing your D , " next time lets do X or Y".
I also think things are not so rosy for WW as you think, and let's not go there at all, not worth it. It influences how she is though. A speedy handover is in everyone's interest I feel, do you?
So, in practical terms what could you do to change this handover issue, (this assumes you want it changed, you may not)?
What could you say to D to make this easier for her?
If this needs a 180 what would it be?
V
Morning All,
Thank you so much for posting. I'll admit I feel quite defensive about a bunch of things which i will explain in a sec but the fact that I recognise that is a a good thing.
Just continuing the Marathon Analogy, it just feels like I've hit the wall but i know i just got to keep going.
So GAL first as I can see this is a concern but I want to reassure you that i'm not sat at home being a complete hermit. I'm just lacking a bit in some of the solid social connections that I could do with right now. Most of my friends are married and several are now expecting kids so they just don't have much availability. As for newer friends, well I'm working on that but things just take more planning at the moment. I can fill time and am, but its filling time.
So back to the interaction side of things, well the defensive feeling is because I feel like for the most part I have been the positive one with the kids but yesterday it got the better of me and she immediately jumped on me. On the various occasions XW has cried at handovers I've never jumped on her to tell her to be the grown up. But this is the same double standard that she applied when my dad didn't speak to her which made him awful, but when her mum blanked me that was fine.
So I feel defensive here but I think that's because i know i need to be more positive (and usually am) and in that sense know that she and you all are right. I guess it just bothers me that the one time I'm not she feels she can lecture me on it.
And yes part of it is because she is doing so many of the things that when i suggested it i was being awful and now she is choosing them. And yes a HUGE part of it is that i can see how much she is enjoying her new life and i feel resentful of that. Being positive is hard when you don't feel positive.
I'm trying to let it go, I really am, and I know that actually I could have the same kind of life and I am enjoying the freedom for a number of things, just wish I had XW to share it with (even though this is contradictory as I only have the freedom because the kids arent here)
Equally I know that faking happy and pretending there was nothing wrong didn't serve me well for the last 5 years, and I don't want to teach my kids that's how you handle situations.
My handling of situations like that were always an issue for me, and evidentally still are. I just didn't want to agree with her and say something like 'yes you're right, its important to be positive' - I felt the need to justify and defend my position and stand up for myself despite the fact that she was right.
The honest answer if i had given it would have been
'XW, I know you are right and that we need to be positive and it is something i've been trying to do. I certainly could have responded to D4 better just now but seeing you looking so good and happy with all of the signs of your new life, together with you taking the kids away is still very painful and upsetting for me as it reminds me just what i've lost. As a result I didnt handle things just now as well as I should have done. Please be assured that I will always reassure them that we both love them very much.'
It would have been nice if there was the slightest hint of understanding on her part, or recognition that at the previous 50 odd handovers (none of which last more than a couple of minutes) I have been very positive and usually deal with things in a 'I know, but i will see you in a couple of days and we are going to ..........' way
Having said all that, of late I have let D4 see too much negativity from me and so need to rein that in (I said a couple of derogatory things about OM1 when she was talking about him) and I still haven't found a good answer to give when D4 says something about wanting mummy and daddy to be together.
So in short I've not done brilliantly and must try harder, but as Dr Suess said 'unslumping oneself is not easily done'
Thank you again for your input.
Hi Jim. I get how your feeling and being positive when you don't feel it is soooo hard. It's clear from your postings that your a great dad and how much you love your kids This does not help with hand overs and of course you get defensive when you perceive a form of attack
No one can be in your shoes or know exactly how your feeling at each moment but I think the trick is to stay on an even keel. If W attacks , listen , process your thoughts and answer in a non committal way. My fav with EXW is ' no prob ' and I smile She cannot come back at me because if she does she is the one dragging out the argument / strained convo
Again , I can't imagine the heart break at handing over a couple of angels to a person that has caused them pain but it is what it is and your only way to the end of this is through it
On the new life your W has , I would doubt all is rosy in the garden No relationship goes perfectly smooth Theirs is built on lies and will not be harmonious all the time or anywhere near it
My L/C deals only in facts and will not entertain conjecture While she will agree conjecture can be proved right sometimes, why would you bother giving it headspace ? What ever the state of W and her life , it will play out as it will.
Jim is a good guy and deserves better than this and time will provide so much more. If you need to speculate about anything , try picturing Jim happy , in a loving , committed R with someone very special , whoever that might be. It will happen Jim.
You have your health , two fantastic kids and great life ahead of you. You been setback at the moment Jim but you will get through this
Thanks for the continued support on my thread
Ps. Red Bulls at the side and the speed blocks along the sides at the bottom with a yellow R1 on the back of the lid ! !!!
Take care. Rd
Hi Jim - me again. Lucky for you I'm not working today - currently packing, but keeping an eye on the forum too. Here's my response to your post - hope this is useful
Morning All,
Thank you so much for posting. I'll admit I feel quite defensive about a bunch of things which i will explain in a sec but the fact that I recognise that is a a good thing.
It's okay to feel defensive - this stuff is TOUGH!!Just continuing the Marathon Analogy, it just feels like I've hit the wall but i know i just got to keep going.
Good to realise this and tweak your approach, or as you say - just keep going....So GAL first as I can see this is a concern but I want to reassure you that i'm not sat at home being a complete hermit. I'm just lacking a bit in some of the solid social connections that I could do with right now. Most of my friends are married and several are now expecting kids so they just don't have much availability. As for newer friends, well I'm working on that but things just take more planning at the moment. I can fill time and am, but its filling time.
It's good that you see this and are planning things. I think it takes time and perseverence for 'just filling time' to become 'truly fulfilling life.' But you are right - sitting home hermit-like won't help any of us, so this is an area to keep moving forward on.So back to the interaction side of things, well the defensive feeling is because I feel like for the most part I have been the positive one with the kids but yesterday it got the better of me and she immediately jumped on me. On the various occasions XW has cried at handovers I've never jumped on her to tell her to be the grown up. But this is the same double standard that she applied when my dad didn't speak to her which made him awful, but when her mum blanked me that was fine.
I can understand your frustration. That said, your comments sound a little 'scorecard' and following the 'double standard' perspective is always going to be a cheeseless tunnel. She isn't going to see this until she sees it.So I feel defensive here but I think that's because i know i need to be more positive (and usually am) and in that sense know that she and you all are right. I guess it just bothers me that the one time I'm not she feels she can lecture me on it.
I can see you thinking 'THE ONE TIME....EVERY OTHER TIME I...' Well, I think it's great that you manage this most times. Good for you. I would take what you can from this time and move forward. Not always trying to do things better and better, just as best you can.
And yes part of it is because she is doing so many of the things that when i suggested it i was being awful and now she is choosing them. And yes a HUGE part of it is that i can see how much she is enjoying her new life and i feel resentful of that. Being positive is hard when you don't feel positive.
I understand. One thing that everyone says if they and their S get to talk about how things were. Things were and are completely different to how you perceive them. Try and remember this every time you feel like Tiny Tim peeping in the window at someone else's Christmas feast.I'm trying to let it go, I really am, and I know that actually I could have the same kind of life and I am enjoying the freedom for a number of things, just wish I had XW to share it with (even though this is contradictory as I only have the freedom because the kids arent here)
Have you had a look at my new signature quote? It resonated with me. You have suffered a loss. The loss of your M as it was. However, if we can work towards gratitude, rather than resentment and wishing for things we don't have, I think it carries us a long way forwards. Have you considered keeping a gratitude journal for a little while?Equally I know that faking happy and pretending there was nothing wrong didn't serve me well for the last 5 years, and I don't want to teach my kids that's how you handle situations.
It's a big thing to learn - expressing how you feel, knowing that getting your needs met is important - and being authentic in your approach.My handling of situations like that were always an issue for me, and evidentally still are. I just didn't want to agree with her and say something like 'yes you're right, its important to be positive' - I felt the need to justify and defend my position and stand up for myself despite the fact that she was right.
Yes, I agree your suggested response was a good one - justifying and defending is cheeseless tunnel territory IMHO...The honest answer if i had given it would have been
'XW, I know you are right and that we need to be positive
and it is something i've been trying to do. I certainly could have responded to D4 better just now but seeing you looking so good and happy with all of the signs of your new life, together with you taking the kids away is still very painful and upsetting for me as it reminds me just what i've lost. As a result I didnt handle things just now as well as I should have done. Please be assured that I will always reassure them that we both love them very much.'
It would have been nice if there was the slightest hint of understanding on her part, or recognition that at the previous 50 odd handovers (none of which last more than a couple of minutes) I have been very positive and usually deal with things in a 'I know, but i will see you in a couple of days and we are going to ..........' way
Yeah, I hear you. But if we get on to the 'how unfair it all is' avenue, it doesn't serve us well, you know? She may not offer you the slightest hint of understanding for a little while yet. But that doesn't affect the essence of who you are and what you are doing. In fact, that you carry on despite this shows great courage and fortitude I think.Having said all that, of late I have let D4 see too much negativity from me and so need to rein that in (I said a couple of derogatory things about OM1 when she was talking about him) and I still haven't found a good answer to give when D4 says something about wanting mummy and daddy to be together.
This is important I think, and I would completely avoid commenting on OM1 to D4. The thing to remember about OM1 is - if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. He was just THERE at the time. If D says she wants M&D to be together, might you validate and reassure her that M&D may not be able to live together just now, but both love her very very much?So in short I've not done brilliantly and must try harder, but as Dr Suess said 'unslumping oneself is not easily done'
I don't know about 'must try harder.' That sounds like putting pressure on yourself at a time when things are hard. But maybe just doing more of what works and tweaking where it doesn't. Learning from tougher interactions - all for the purpose of your own happiness and fulfilment in the longer term, and your own wellbeing and that of your kids just now.
Thank you again for your input.
You're welcome Jim. We are always here for you...You've given me a lot of support in recent months, and I truly appreciate it. I hope my thoughts are helpful & that your week improves.
Hi Toots. You really are a star
You are right its my perception of unfairness that is causing me the issues here. The picking up this time when usually
I am very positive and the unfairness that she has this great life and I don't feel I do even though so much of my life is really good.
A gratitude journal may not be a bad thing, starting with the 6 days a fortnight I do still get to see my kids.
I do need to understand why I was so reticent to back down and just say she was right, it wouldn't have cost me anything. Not doing so was just score keeping on my part and because I didn't want her blaming me for D4 being upset (more score keeping) but she was going to blame me regardless of what I said.
The double standard thing is more frustration that she cant see it rather than score keeping though.
These aren't good habits for any situation though the difference now being with anyone else I would probably get in touch to say something and smooth things out.
The thing to remember about OM1 is - if it wasn't him it would have been someone else.
I know its true but god, its a hideous thought for all that it implies. Because much as I can see her happiness (and I really can), her lack of interest in me if she wasn't would be worse.
And that is the core of all of this, no matter how much I leave her to her life, that I try to detach, that I try to make the best of my life, that i try to respond in the most constructive way, that I try to be the best man and best dad I can be, and so many other things... it doesn't change that I still love her and yet she only sees the negative in me. And that just really blows.
Toots, you really are a great support, its just a shame you can't pop down the M6 and I'd cook you dinner to say thank you.
Jim
Some of that which WW says is irrationality. So you are sadly going have to deal with the irrational, probably for quite a long time. And unfairness and although it hurts and you did not deserve this irrationality there are never guarantees with a wayward spouse. It's the expectation of fairness that gets us and there isn't any.
You can deal with irrationality by validation and then saying "There is much that you are saying I don't agree with so we will have to disagree. My children come first for me as I know they do for you so we need to find workable solutions, and I know it can be worked out".
Your feelings don't count in this. I think I would make this your 180 with WW, to study ways of dealing with the irrational. You could start with Albert Ellis and some of his expectation theory principles. He has three main principles and one of them is the expectation that life is fair.
V
Glad if I was able to help a little, Jim
Hope your day improved! xx
So I've been pondering and the general consensus is that I didn't handle things well on Sunday (that and I know I got it wrong when I did some things for D4 but told W afterwards rather than before)
To that end I was thinking of sending the following text message:
Hi. I was reflecting on the handover on Sunday. For various reasons it affected me more than usual and so I recognise I wasn't as positive as I would typically like to be. I just wanted to reassure you that I do and will always do my best to make sure the kids know we both love them very much.
Now my mind is a little bit cloudy about stuff at the moment (including a request to swap childcare so XW and OM1 can have a long weekend away.) So I'm not sure whether I should say anything BUT this us about right thing to do rather than any effect - I said in a previous post that if it was anyone else I would definitely smooth it out.
I thought post for advice and to stall while I think more.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Jim. No sage advice mate but I wouldn't text anything in my humble opinion you answered your D from your heart with no other agenda. With reflection you may have answered better and your interaction with W may have gone smoother but with reflection we would not be here
Just my pennies worth
Take care , Rd
Hi Jim, I agree with RD about not texting. Rather than say anything, just be how you want to be next time. We all have days where it's hard to maintain a pma - luckily for me, my H is never around to see it!!!
Chin up & have a good week, Jim.
xx
Jim, WW is irrational you said so.
Just change that which you do with D and don't wallow in the rest it is WW noise it seems. I would not text, just change things for your D and yourself.
One handover blunder isn't fatal considering WW tears previously. If she is irrational again and you have changed the interaction then " WW I can see why you think XXXX, but I don't agree lets agree to disagree on this"
V
You know, Jim, I can honestly say ditto what Toots, Vanilla and rd said before me, because they are far more wise than I.
Let me say, from my experience, this whole thing is tough. Unlike you, I didn't have young children in the mix and I struggled every single day to stay positive. I would sit at my desk at work and cry. Or I would cry all the way to work or all the way home or many more days than I care to admit, both.
There is no denying that it is probably one of the single toughest things a person ever has to deal with and adding young children to the mix, I can only imagine, makes it even tougher.
You are doing well. You are working on yourself and you have a GREAT attitude from where I'm sitting. One little blunder on your part is not the end of the world...it just means you are human.
Many prayers, hugs and much support coming at you from me and the Molly dog.
Hi Jim m what did you decide ? Did you send message ? Be interested to know
Take care , Rd
Hi RD,
Thanks for asking. And thank you to everyone for the input and support.
Your spot on though, with reflection i would do so many things differently. I'd also give my 31 year old self a good kicking.
I let my better judgement (AKA you good people) decide, and so didn't send anything. I still feel like I should apologise because she was right (if not understanding) but its very difficult for me to unpick the emotions of it.
It would have been obvious that I was upset, and I know that's why I wasn't as positive as I should have been and also why I allowed myself to get sucked into a disagreement and also why I drifted in topic to some of the issues that were upsetting me.
Given what I know she said in the past (albeit several months ago now) she may well have interpreted my upset as me trying to make her feel bad, so it possible didn't matter what I said.
An apology might be appropriate but it wouldn't really change anything. Its more important that I remember for all the future times and part of that may be having more of a fall back, go to answer ready.
Something like:
I understand this is important to you and I'm happy to talk about it but I would prefer to do it at another time when I'm not as upset as I am now. I think that's more likely to be constructive. Feel free to ring me after........
Its been a bit of an emotional couple of weeks for me and i'm not really sure why. I think its the more OM1 is involved with the kids and more positive changes I see in my XW (doing all the things I'd practically begged her to do when we were together) the more acutely I'm feeling the loss. I guess its just another stage of grief as I let go and accept what has gone a little bit more. (although this morning I woke up and rolled over expecting my XW to be there even though she hasn't been for nearly 11 months)
S2 is doing OK with it all but he has never really known any different after all he wasn't even 18 months old at BD. D4 gets upset most days but not for very long, usually asking to see mummy but sometimes because she doesn't want to leave me. Either way I make sure they know they are loved and I hope that I'm doing the right things to make the best of this that I can for them.
Struggling a bit with social GAL for the weekend without the kids but I have a couple of household projects lined up instead, one of which I'm really excited to get cracking on.
Hi Jim. It's back to the old 24 hour rule just to give yourself time to step back and think
Re the OM and your kids , of course it's upsetting and your a way better man than me about it. From what I read in your posts here and to others your obviously a very caring , excellent dad Your kids know they are loved and you are doing a great job under very hard circumstances.
Re having a lm answer ready next time , I think it's a great idea but maybe a shirt one that doesn't mention so much
Good luck with the house projects and have a great weekend
Take care. Rd
Hey Jim, just checking in to see how you are doing?? I hope you are having a good weekend and getting on with that house project you were all excited about?
I'm glad you decided not to send that message. Sometimes doing nothing is the best way...
I agree with what RD said - you are doing a good job in difficult circumstances. I think we all go through emotional periods and it is part of moving through this process. The main thing is to keep moving in a good direction - and eventually we will get to a good place in our lives....
Take care lovely Jim xxx
Hi All,
I had a good weekend in the end. Out for dinner on friday night with friends, met someone for coffee on saturday then met another group of friends for coffee today. In amongst that I did a few little productive things around the house, nothing too dramatic but useful.
I've also been trying to sort out the arrangements for my holiday next year which has been really positive to do even if it is a long time away.
I did manage to get out on my bike (the pedal kind) a couple of times and am slowly building up the mileage - definitely a lot more enjoyable than running even if it does take longer.
As for XW, well we have seperate lives now and the only reason we have any communication at all is the kids. If it weren't for them then I believe that the next time I heard from her would be when we move forward with the divorce paperwork - that's not how it is obviously because we have two amazing children together but it is the acceptance of that reality (which is now nearly a year old and in truth much older than that) that has the emotional impact on me.
Not helped by the fact that in every two week period I go 6 days (5 nights) without any communication with my kids.
But my life does seem to be moving in a good direction and although I know I will at times feel a bit down about what happened as long as I don't wallow then that's fine.
Thanks for checking in.
Jim
I sense resignation in your tone.
I was concerned about your next handover, is that tomorrow?
V
Hi Jim. When you say no communication does that mean not even telephone ?
That doesn't seem right Have I got it wrong ?
Otherwise it sounds like you doing well As Vanillia says you do seem to have accepted your lot and maybe that's a good thing for now. No expectations so no disappointment
Stay strong Rd
Hi Jim,
I rarely disagree with our friend Rd. Once again, I have to agree with him.
Chin up . . . you have this!
Bob
Morning (here anyway).
RD yes, no contact at all. The kids are too small to have their own phone and if I rang XW she wouldn't answer. I could and probably should try more to push for contact on these weekends but at the same time I really try to limit my contact with her (and OMs) life.
Next handover is Friday evening. There's only one or two in person handover in a fortnight, the rest is through the school run.
V, yes resignation about the end of my M is probably the right word, but its part of acceptance. On the Kubler-ross change curve I'm probably just moving to the 'experiment' stage as I search for new meaning in my life (rather than meaning which is based around either my M,trying to save my M, or resentful about the end of my M)
Hi Jim. The no contact must be incredibly hard. I haven't read how others deal with this with kids as young as yours but I hope you can sort something going forward
Re acceptance , this is something I have done just because I felt I had to. Living on the roller coaster was hurting to much
Bank holiday here today so relaxing
Have a good day Rd
Jim
You are a father to two wonderful and amazing children. A father who wants the best and most wonderful things for those exploring minds and excited explorations. Who can share Shakespeare, classics, involvement, Xmas in London, swimming and love, hugs and more love.
It is an enormous gift to be a father to two healthy exuberant kids.
I am minded of my own father who at 94, still refers to me in my 60s as his little girl!
Know this it is your joy. I ask you to consider the most important gift you have the gift of love for your children; a gift expressed in your heartfelt posts.
V
Thank you for your generosity to me.
You know, Jim, I sometimes have a hard time finding the right words, especially after the likes of V and rd and many others who say things so much better than I. But, what I can say is I totally understand the resignation and acceptance thing. Sure, our sitches are in totally different stages, but I can tell you when I hit that whole acceptance thing, it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
I have learned to separate my XH from the person I married. They truly are two different people in my mind now and it has helped me realize a lot of things. I'm not suggesting you do this, as you have to do what works for Jim and that might not be it, but I just know that is what helped me get to acceptance.
I couldn't agree more with what V said above about daddies and their love. I, too, am still a "daddy's girl" despite my age being LONG past what could be considered girlhood. There is a very special bond between daddies and daughters and you are building an even stronger one and that is something that will be precious to all of you as you all grow together.
Much love, Jim, and tail wags from Molly too. We pray for you constantly and wish you all the best this life has to offer.
Just saying hello and you are in my prayers tonight.
Thank you for your wisdom on my thread.
V
About the lack of communication with the kids during your week off, have you considered paying them a visit at school/daycare/camp? My kids are easily available during lunch or playtime or from 3:30 pm onwards where it becomes free play. I sometimes stop by to say hello, collect a hug or two and drop a few kisses.
Hi Jim...sounds like you have had a lot to deal with lately but are handling yourself well. You have to make the right choices now for you. All the have control over is you. In no time your kids will be old enough to contact you on their own. You sound like an amazing Dad.
Cheers,
Karma
Hi Jim, thanks for your kind post on my thread. It's always good to hear from you, and I hope you are doing well my friend.
Eagle-eyed me noticed that OM has now moved in with your W. I don't think you posted that update. Sorry to hear that, but I'm also partly pleased. Nothing like moving in together to strip away the rosy tint from those glasses IMHO.....
Did your W let you know this was happening, or did you just pick this up with the kids? Do they seem okay about it? How are things going in terms of GAL? I know you felt you might want to up the ante a little on that front, and I hope you've managed to add a couple of new things into the mix. Sometimes just adding in the odd yoga class or similar can just tip things from a little lonely-feeling into nice...
I know you dipped your toe into the dating pond and I also wondered if you decided to continue with that? I notice there has been quite a bit of movement towards D in the sitches of my contemporaries - Pink, Sunny, me....do you plan to continue as you are until the two year mark & then decide?? Interesting to read Crimson's sitch recently, and it does show how long sitches can take to turn, and that (whilst hard) it is good to retain a little hope whilst moving forward in our own lives.
Anyway - I'm sending a big hug and best wishes to you xx
Hi Sotto.
To be honest I haven't felt much like posting about my situation.
XW and OM1 are living together now. Far as I can tell her place when they have the kids, his London apartment when they don't. This is via D4 (she's a chatterbox) and things I noticed (residents parking permit on her car).
Shes not said a word but it might explain why she seems more agitated with me at handover - but who knows what goes on in there.
They both earn good money and have a few weekends away planned (I've been asked to adjust childcare). so all in all it sounds pretty good for them. There has definitly been parent meetings as well so they are both pretty serious.
OM gets on well with the kids and they seem to like him, which is good. Hurts to hear them talk about him but its better he's good with them than a complete ######.
I'm thinking of asking to meet OM just so my first encounter is away from the kids, plus I'd like to know something about the guy who lives with them 50% of their life.
So it seems that they are happy and have taken it relatively slow. She pursued him for a while before he committed but now he has, so he knew what he was getting in to.
The otherside is my XW was miserable for years and blames me (and I have my fair share of blame to own). In fact she pretty much hated me for 4 out of 6 years so there was never really a marriage to save except on paper.
In short its time for me to wish them well and move on. (Not the first time I've said that but its my goal these days)
I still have some unresolved issues I'm working through with my IC (including jealousy on things XW does now but wouldn't with me - like going away for a weekend) but that's for me to be at peace with it all and minimise my baggage.
On the more immediate me side, well social GAL is mixed, but im getting there. Im trying to procrastinate less about domestic projects when I don't have social plans. Getting a new bike has been a really good decision as well.
I dipped a couple of toes in on the dating front but I found myself making comparisons with XW so not hugely healthy from anyones perspective. I'd like the company but it feels less of an issue than it did.
Anyway, thanks for checking in.
Hi Jim,
You sound like you're in a fairly good, if not a bit sad, kind of place. Way to go on the bike!
Time heals all. Think how far you've already come.
Wishing you happiness today, and every day forward.
Hi Jim. As always sounding level Which is a complement. Your handling OM far more maturely than I ever could and I admire you for that. I suppose it's a blessing your little ones are so young because this will be normal to them
Re OM and W. It's always looks good looking in from the outside and maybe it is but I wouldn't spend too much time giving it headspace
Dating is always going to be tricky and maybe you wouldnt compare Miss Right to W Just saying
Your a very young man Jim and have a long life ahead What you make of it boils down to you. I see your a clever guy from your posts so give yourself time to see what Jim wants to do with his life
Get an engine in that bike and then we will talk !!!!
Take care mate. Stay strong. Rd
Please start a new thread