Copied over from the last thread.
It's my birthday tomorrow. I plan to pick up my kids and go to my mum's until Sunday morning when I'll return them because she wants to take them to her brothers.
WW usually leaves the house before I get there and returns after I've gone. This time there may be a danger that I bump into her ... or she may leave a card and or present for me.
My state of mind at the moment means I hate her guts and don't trust myself not to tell her to her face nor rip up any card in her face and dump any present straight in the bin.
As if by magic, here's an email I just received.
I've arranged to take the children to Suffolk on Sunday, as you know. So I could do with them being back here by 11 please.
Have a good birthday. The children's presents were selected by them, not by me. So hopefully you'll take them in the spirit in which they were intended.
Ha! Arranged? But not with me. She just told me.
She's got a damned nerve. I so nearly replied.
You didn't arrange your brother's with me, you just informed me what you are doing. Thanks for that.
As I said it's about when S15 gets out of bed.
Have a good birthday. From someone who has abandoned and betrayed me? Oh **** off.
And what does she expect me to do or say to my kids when they give me a present? Who does she think I am? We were together for nearly 21 years. What the hell is going through her tiny mind? This makes me mad.
OD, honey, take a deep breath. So she said happy birthday. What did you want her to do? Ignore you? Order you a stripper cake? I have a feeling that no matter what she chose, you'd take issue with it. Let it go, OD.
Thanks for some sort of perspective SunnyB. But it wasn't a happy birthday, it was just a good birthday. She knows it won't be happy.
I've been mad as hell on and off for months and I can't kick it. It's driving me nuts. I want to scream in her stupid face. I want to kick that b*****d OM in the nuts.
I can't let it go. It's just simmering all the time. I try mindfullness, which helps for a while, but it just keeps coming back time and time again.
I wish I'd never met her. I'm so sorry my kids have got her flakey genes and will learn it's OK to abandon your marriage without a second thought. Damn I hate her.
I wish I'd never met her. I'm so sorry my kids have got her flakey genes and will learn it's OK to abandon your marriage without a second thought. Damn I hate her.
Hate to say this but if you never met her you would not have those kids, and hating her means you hate half your kids.
I am sure that is not true.
She is sick, don't hate her for being sick.
My .02
P.S. - I got my book will try to start reading it.
And what are your kids leaning from you? To hold a grudge forever and harbor hate and resentment until you become old and bitter? Those kids have your genes, too, you know. Model something better for them.
Hi OD Do you see an I/C ? I get your anger mate but it's not healthy for you You're right W has hurt you badly , she's broken your trust , you've lost your best friend and she's rejected to. Sshe done all that a while ago now and your doing it to yourself everyday.
OD ,you need to help yourself mare. If you carry on like you are it will turn you bitter and that's a dark road. Again mate , I feel your pain but you have to accept what is.
tomorrow is a new day and it could be a new start in your life. The choice is yours. OD is able to get through this and be happy again. For me , professional help was the only way and I have a huge support network around me and I live with my kids in the family home with EXW still denying OM and seemingly in a deep depression. You have it much harder so you really need guidance through this
With regards to W saying happy birthday , she is being a good neighbour and that's what she is in her mind
Take care mate. Rd
Hi OD, my H didn't acknowledge my birthday at all last November. Or our anniversary last August. That was horrible too...
I can understand your anger RD. I haven't been that angry in my sitch, but I can understand people being so angry. But I think there's a lot of blame in your anger too - towards her and towards him. I don't think that's helpful, because you (we) all had a part to play in how things became. You aren't responsible for your W choosing to have an A, but you are partly responsible for the state of your M and thus the pre-existing conditions that paved the way towards an A.
Also, in terms of OM. Fact is, there's always 'someone' out there who will become involved with a S who is seeking to have an A. My H went out on 'dates' with two other women before his A with OW started. I think once they have become wayward, there's likely no stopping things until they work themselves through.
IMHO, you need to take responsibility for your anger and find a way through it. Find a way to peace and acceptance of 'what is' - even though you don't like it. Not just throw out these comments - I hate her & he's a ***. Ultimately, it could cost you any chance of reconciling and may impact on your R with your sons too.
How is your work with your IC going in this area??
Thank you everyone for your words of wisdom. The thing is I know it all but still can't shake it.
Cadet If I'd never met her, I wouldn't have had those kids, but maybe I'd have others. Does that sound bad? I love my kids, they're wonderful, I really really miss them (and her), but I wanted someone who was as loyal as me.
I don't think she is sick. I think she has thought about this long and hard, weighed it up and waited until the she thought the kids would be OK. The fact that there are alternative options never got a look in because she didn't know about them. In the same that I failed to be a good enough husband because I didn't know how and never had guidance.
Glad you got the book. I read a bit more today.
SunnyB I never show any sign of my dark mood when I'm with my kids. In truth, they help me enormously just by being there. I am happy with them, take an interest in what they're doing, have a laugh with them and try and think of activities we can do together. All the while though, I want to tell them that it is not OK to just give up on a marriage in search of ... what? But this has to wait. They will know though, one day.
rd I know it's not healthy. Crikey, how I'd like to stop. I've been listening to my mindfullness podcast and self improvement podcast and try and practice. It helps for a while and then it all comes flooding back. It's just there, waiting in the background, ready to take over again.
It will go, I know, and hasn't been as bad before. It's that Kubler Ross grief curve thing. I did have an IC. Today was the last appointment: it was an NHS thing but you only get so many sessions. He is confident I can move on (I hate using that expression as she used it on me) but says it just takes time.
I will get another IC now but I'll have to pay for that. I've also arranged a call to DB coach Chuck next week but I'm not sure what I'll have to discuss actually as I have no contact with WW at all other tan very brief texts or emails. In my low state of mind I think I can't do this DB thing, just like I can't do many other things.
And dearest Toots, you are so good at picking people up off the floor. I'm sorry your H ignored your birthday and anniversary. WW ignore our anniversary last July. I made a card with pics of the boys on. I didn't expect anything and I was correct to assume that. I wish I hadn't got anything for her birthday earlier this year though. Why did I do that?
Yes, there is a lot of blame towards her. Not really too much towards him though: she will have spoonfed him her lie. I still want to punch him though for getting involved with someone else's wife. I started off blaming myself for almost all of it before realising it's not all my fault. Yes, I wasn't good enough as a husband, but you don't just walk out, you try and learn and resolve it.
I do keep these outbursts pretty much to myself or on here. But it's what I'm feeling, it's my reality right now. I know it's not good, there will be no chance of reconciliation, and it doesn't make it any better and I'm embarrassed by it. I would like to find peace but how?
I want to revisiting this email again before tomorrow
WW - I've arranged to take the children to Suffolk (her brothers) on Sunday, as you know. So I could do with them being back here by 11 please.
Have a good birthday. The children's presents were selected by them, not by me. So hopefully you'll take them in the spirit in which they were intended..
It was half term last week so the kids were off school. WW has lost her job, so they've been there all week yet she 'has arranged' to take the kids to her brothers for half of the bank holiday weekend. The weekend when it is my birthday. I think this is a bit rich. So I want to say 'something like
It was half term last week so you've all been here all week yet you 'have arranged' to take the kids to your brothers for half of the bank holiday weekend. The weekend when it is my birthday. I am not happy about this so next time, when something like this occurs, I expect you to check with me before arbitrarily deciding what will happen.
I really don't now how you expect me to respond to presents from my own children. Of course I will be happy with anything they give me. I am insulted that you think otherwise.
-----
She also left a card and a bottle of tequila from her. I don't want them, I don't want anything from her, I want to leave them behind on the kitchen table when I leave. I realise this is passive aggressive but all the same I don't want them.
I will also be taking the rest of my clothes with me when I go.
Now, my state of mind is deep in non DB land and have simmering anger so someone help, me please. What should I really do?
What day is your bd OD?? Does her taking them mean they won't be with you for it?
I'm wondering what you hope to achieve with that email. It sounds full of blame and accusation to me. I think it would be best not to send it. In terms of her present, I would put the Tequila in the cupboard where you keep wine & booze & if you don't want the card, enjoy ripping it up at the train station & put it in the bin there.
Blamey sounding emails and passive aggressive gestures won't help your cause. I would much rather you forget about W for now & think about a plan to work on how angry you feel. I hopethis doesn't sound harsh, but I would love to see you move past this 'stuck in anger' mode OD....hope you have a nice birthday :-)
You know - I almost always agree with what Toots posts, but this time I am going to have to respectfully dissent. I think the email needs work but I think the message actually needs to be conveyed. Old Dog and his wife are basically separated without the benefit of any formal child custody arrangement. So the way I see it, there is a need to clarify their informal one.
OD - you see the kids about 4 days a month, right? It seems completely reasonable to me that your wife respect that time. Of course, your boys are at an age when they have their own lives, and of course their wishes should be respected as well. I would approach any communication in that light and with that tone: "Wife - I am seeking to set up some structure to our informal arrangement to avoid misunderstandings".
I do agree about the tequila advice though.....and I would try a second draft of that email that sticks to the business of establishing a plan and loses everything else..
But that's just me......
My birthday was last Friday. The purpose of the email was to stand up for myself and push back on her deciding what she wants. And to have a bit of a dig and remind her how angry I am. I really want to put the card back in its envelope and leave it with the tequila to show her I don't want her friendship advances. She is not my friend. This feeling is so strong within me. It's one of the reasons why I have cut off almost all contact.
I guess there's no hurry actually - 72 hour rule alert. I'm not planning on meeting her. I'll drop off the kids at the gate and go. When they've gone I'll go back and get my stuff.
I feel I am beginning to come out of my recent slump. I'm not there yet and there'll not doubt be relapses but I hope I will be able to work on me some more.
Thanks for putting up with my neediness people.
The purpose of the email was to stand up for myself and push back on her deciding what she wants. And to have a bit of a dig and remind her how angry I am.
First sentence great! Second one, not so much.
And a Happy Belated Birthday OD.
Yup, first sentence great, second sentence - look how miserable I am. Someone make it all right.
And thanks raliced.
OD, happy birthday. I wish you peace in the upcoming year.
Hi OD, belated happy birthday & I second the advice from Raliced. Good for you posting here before sending. I think the two themes are motive and tone. Part of your motive was fine, part not. And best to notice & lose the 'not' part.
So it's okay to respectfully raise a scheduling matter, but not to make 'digs' to 'show' you are still angry. Best to communicate from 'adult state' rather than 'child' if you have read Eric Berne's stuff? A WW probably isn't going to want to reconcile with a 'petulant child'..
Are you going to redraft & post again??
Here's my new draft. I have included another bit I haven't mentioned before as WW also emailed me a couple of days ago about the surgeon 'signing off' S15 'for a whole year'.
Thank you for letting me know about "Mr X signing off S15 for a whole year now". I’m unclear about what this means though. I presume it means he's fine but they want to see him in a year? I would also like to know beforehand when S15 is due to go to physio. I will ask S15, but he is unlikely to know. And if there is a nearer one than Addenbrookes?
With regard to this weekend, you stated you arranged to take the boys to Suffolk but you did not check this with me: you just informed me of this arrangement. I only get a few days each month with them so I would prefer you to check with me if this kind of thing happens again.
I really don't now how you expected me to respond to presents from my own children in any other way than happy with anything they give me. I am disappointed that you think otherwise.
OD trying to climb back on the DB train.
OD- I'd lose the part about the boys presents. I can tell it irritates you - but it won't get you anywhere.
The meat is in the second paragraph. This is just my opinion - but I would open by pointing out that you only get to see the boys X days a month, that time is important to you, and that this weekend's events have made you realize that she is not on the same page. Therefore, in order to avoid any future misunderstandings - your position is that from X time on Friday to X time on Sundays is your time (with respect to the boys wishes ). Of course you will be happy to be flexible if possible, as long as it is discussed ahead of time.
Hope S15 is healing up well!
Usually it is 8pm Friday to 4pm Sunday, but it's a bank holiday weekend and I swapped weeks a couple of weeks ago so I could be here on my birthday and S12's in two weeks time.
I don't know how long ago she arranged this visit but it would have been my off week. Mind you she does know it's my birthday, so she might have thought to ask.
S15 is doing OK thanks. He's got a nice scar all the way down his back gruesome ... but cool.
Hi OD, here are my suggestions..
Hi W, Thanks for letting me know about S15 being signed off for a whole year now. I presume this means he's fine but they want to see him again in a year? That's great if so. Also, if you could let me know beforehand when he's due to go to physio, I would be grateful. Is there a nearer one than Addenbrookes at all?
With regard to this weekend, I'm pleased you managed to take the boys away, but as I only get to spend a few days each month with them, I would prefer you to check with me if this kind of thing happens again please. I hope they had a good time though.
Have a good week, OD
Toots that sounds so DB that I think she'd assume someone else wrote it ... oh they did ;-)
Happy belated bday, NSOD. So did you send the message? Did W respond?
Thanks gan. No, I haven't sent it yet. I'm invoking the 72 hour rule.
I left the card, opened but put back in it's envelope, and tequila (WW's birthday present to me) with all the other drinks in the house plus I removed all my clothes from the house today on my way back to the flat.
The big news though is I woke up this morning and the underlying simmering anger I have felt for the past few months has gone. I know not where, but it feels good. I hope it lasts.
The big news though is I woke up this morning and the underlying simmering anger I have felt for the past few months has gone. I know not where, but it feels good. I hope it lasts.
Hello OD,
That's interesting, I hope it lasts, too!
In regards to Toot's suggestion, you know your W and if you feel she'll think someone else wrote it, you're probably right.
Toots has helped me with many texts, etc. and I love her suggestion. They have usually been well-received by my WAW. Is there a way you could modify it so it sounds like it's coming from you but keep the meat of Toots' suggestion?
I'd love to see you modify it and the post it for our review.
Do you think you can give it a shot?
Bob
Hi Bob, yes I have received help before and always modify to my style.
I'll see if I can give it a go tomorrow. It's midnight in merrie England now. So goodnight all.
OD
I am wishing you happy bday in a belated style.
I think you have moved to the anger part of the Kubler Ross grief process and frankly this is healthy part of your recovery.
You have a choice with this emotion, use it to project yourself forward, internalise it and blame yourself or hate WW or OM forever.
V
Thank you V.
I think I've slipped down the anger curve into ... I don't know what yet but I hope it's healthy.
I haven't had a chance to work on my reply yet. Well actually I have but I keep putting it off. I have been quite busy though.
And I now have another email to deal with. More later.
Oo oo...I think I know the answer to V's MCQ. Is it A). use it to project yourself forward?
Toots is the queen of email responses IMHO so hopefully she'll stop by while I'm sleeping, OD. In the meantime I hope the new email isn't bringing you down too much.
I never managed to cobble together a reply to WW's previous email before another arrived. My boys are coming to visit me this weekend so the first para is about that.
It's S12's 13th birthday a week Saturday and I do not want to be waiting in the wings for scraps. S15 is having to do revision for exams on Sunday so getting S13 out of the house ton Sunday would be good in that respect.
-----
This weekend: On Friday I can put the children on a train at London. I won't be able to do the same in reverse, so on Sunday you'd need to accompany them to London and I'll collect them from here. Please let me know which train arrival time on Friday afternoon suits you best, and what time I'll be collecting them on Sunday.
S12's birthday: I assume you are going to take S12 on Sunday 7th? As you know, he's asking for an iPhone as a birthday present, if he pays towards it. How do you want to do this? Is this to be a joint present from his parents, paid out of the joint account - or do you want to do it differently?
House: What is the progress with the house sale? You were taking advice. Soon we won't have any income from it, plus I need to give proof to the benefits agency that it is actually on the market.
Summer holiday dates: Do you have any preferred dates as yet? My mum has offered to pay for me to take the children away and I'd like to get something planned. If you have no particular dates, perhaps we can just agree some to work from?
-----
My first draft (incorporating advice given earlier). The birthday olive branch sticks in my craw but if it's for my boy ... and I suppose it is Dbing. Actually, I have a chat with Chuck booked for tomorrow. I'll just send the train stuff for now and see what you kind folk and Chuck says bout the rest.
Hi W
S15: Thanks for letting me know about S15 being "signed off for a whole year now". I presume this means he's fine but they want to see him again in a year? That's great if so. Also, if you could let me know beforehand when he's due to go to physio, I would be grateful. And did they let you know if there's a nearer one than Addenbrookes?
Last weekend: I'm happy you managed to take the boys away during their half term, but as I only get to spend a few days each month with them and this trip impinged on my time, I would prefer you to check with me if this kind of thing is likely to happen again. I hope they had a good time though.
This weekend: can you put them on the 16.20 from Charing Cross, not London Bridge please. For the return on Sunday, it depends on what type of ticket they have: Virgin or Great Northern. Remember the railcard won't be valid for these journies. If you get them a return from there to here, they can use the same ticket transitting through London but cannot divert off route or exit at any other station. For any trips within London, another ticket must be bought.
S12's birthday: What does he want to do on his birthday? Does he want friends over? I don't want to just turn up for scraps on the day after. If he would like us all to be together, I am willing to do that. I discussed the iPhone with S12 and said I will pay towards it along with contributions from my mum and brother so his portion will be signifcantly reduced. Feel free if you also want to contribute.
House: I'm afraid I haven't made much progress, but yes, we should get a couple of valuations from local estate agents. As far as capital gains tax is concerned, as it is not our main residence, it looks like we will have to pay. How do envisage handling the money after it sells? And have the tenants given a leaving date?
Summer holiday dates: I have no preferences for dates as yet. Perhaps mid to late August. I'm glad your mum has offered to pay for them.
Looking pretty good to me, OD. Couple of things:
- S12: ditch the "I don't want to just turn up for scraps on the day after." Sounds resentful. Maybe answer her Q about the iPhone first, then bring up your questions after?
- This weekend: not sure but it sounds like you are really spelling out some simple stuff here. If WW is likely to know some or all of it, it will likely come across as condescending. You be the judge.
Thanks gan.
Scraps: I guess it is resentful, especially after last weekend. And that's why I'm using the international DB checker :-)
This weekend: she won't know. Thanks to right wing ideology (selling England the pound - who knew Genesis could see into the future) and rail/station improvements, taking the train here is far from simple. I have done it for three years, so I know.
Hi OD,
I agree with gan about the "scraps" sending a resentful as a message. But, in general it looks good. Just bullet points to address practical issues.
One thing that translate to me is that there is no transferring trouble for her, and that is probably a big one for her once she reads the email. Most of what you wrote seems just business like.
Hope she can see that you are being very reasonable and trying to deal with the situation with a friendly disposition.
Keep strong.
Pink
Hi OD - here are my thoughts below...I wasn't keen on the little headings, so I removed them and the scraps sentence..and tinkered with a couple of other bits...T :-)
Hi W
Thanks for letting me know about S15 being "signed off for a whole year now". I presume this means he's fine but they want to see him again in a year? That's great if so. Also, if you could let me know beforehand when he's due to go to physio, I would be grateful. And did they let you know if there's a nearer one than Addenbrookes?
Re last weekend: I'm happy you managed to take the boys away during their half term, but as I only get to spend a few days each month with them and this trip was partly on my time, I would prefer you to check with me if this kind of thing is likely to happen again. I hope they had a good time though.
This weekend, can you put them on the 16.20 from Charing Cross, not London Bridge please. For the return on Sunday, it depends on what type of ticket they have: Virgin or Great Northern. Remember the railcard won't be valid for these journies. If you get them a return from there to here, they can use the same ticket travelling through London but can't divert off route or exit at any other station. For any trips within London, another ticket must be bought.
What does S12 want to do on his birthday? Does he want friends over? If he would like us all to be together, I am willing to do that. I discussed the iPhone with S12 and said I will pay towards it along with contributions from my mum and brother so his portion will be signifcantly reduced. Feel free if you also want to contribute.
I haven't made much progress on the house yet, but yes we should get a couple of valuations from estate agents. As far as capital gains tax is concerned, as it isn't our main residence, it looks like we'll have to pay. How do you envisage handling the money after it sells? And have the tenants given a leaving date?
In terms of summer holiday dates - I have no preferences for dates as yet. Perhaps mid to late August? I'm glad your mum has offered to pay for them.
OD
Hiya, OD!
Heard you calling me in V's thread...
Pink is spot on about the scraps...that was a doozy and makes you look like a needy, spineless 13-year old grammar schoolboy.
Otherwise, the rest looks great. I'd go with what Toots pulled together and hit the "send" button.
Hi OD , really glad the anger thing is away. Needs to be for you to live your life
Take care. Rd
Hi OD. I feel the same anger you did. How did you get past it? Please share.
RAI
Thanks for your valuable input everyone.
RAI. I really don't now. I've been feeling simmering rage and hate for a few months.
What I have done is cut off all contact with WW apart from very brief emails and texts. I have tried to GAL and been seeing a counsellor. I have tried to bare everything, much more than when I saw one almost 20 years ago.
It's been hard and hasn't gone as I'd like in many instances but at the weekend, I could feel some sort of change on Saturday and when I woke up on Sunday I just felt calmer. I could whip it up again very easily if I wanted to but i don't want to as it's hugely destructive.
Glad you're doing better, NS-OD. You're getting good advice.
That train thing looks like a doozy.
Email sent. Thanks again everyone, it's much appreciated.
Got a reply already. Here's an extract I'd like advice about. The rest is OK.
This half term has been taken up partly with revision sessions. I took the boys away for one night to Suffolk. Not wishing to quibble, technically last weekend was not "your time". We added it in as extra for your birthday, remember? Had you wanted more time with the children over half term you just needed to say so. And that applies at any other time too.
Not wishing to quibble? Looks like this is a quibble to me.
In advance of my birthday and S12's coming up, I realised I wouldn't be there for either, so I changed weeks. So as far as I'm concerned, this was not an extra. In addition to this, she conveniently forgets that I only see them every other weekend, while she has them all the time.
Should I make this clear or let it ride?
Let it go OD...or if you must respond, thank her for the clarification and acknowledge her suggestion that you should just ask in the future.
Personally I wouldn't respond to that one OD.....JMHO....:-)
"I know I have betrayed and left you, but can't we all just get along?"
that is the fine line we, as LBSs, walk. How to be civil in the face such bulls**t. How to let it go. How to rise above it.
It's our ego that hurts most because we feel that WW is taking advantage of us. No one want to feel like someone is getting the best of us.
You are great just for putting up with it. Don't forget that. Take the high road, friend.
RAI
P.S. I am not sure whether I am talking to you or myself, or both of us.
OD, I'd also let it go. She heard your point, she might even agree with it and just won't say so. Pressing her until you "win" accomplishes nothing.
Another vote for letting it go. She's in defensive mode, and probably replied reflexively, but that doesn't mean she didn't get your point.
I shall soar above it like an eagle ... all be it one with a broken heart.
A flying beagle just popped into my head - why was that??
Well done OD - good job on the self restraint
Just caught up with DB coach Chuck. He was asking about my shift in mood/attitude/outlook last weekend too. I decided it was a combination of factors: GAL, counselling, going super dark etc.
I started to talk about forgiving WW and gratitude for enabling me to learn more about myself, relationships and life and actually doing something about being the best I can be - a way to yet though.
This is what I learnt. Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. If we are carrying resentment, it hinders our enjoyment of life. Forgiveness is a matter of self respect. I give up the right or opportunity to punish someone else, because ir adds no value to my life.
I will also be buying ...
Sounding really positive OD. Well done mate
Keep at it.
Take care Rd
Can I suggest that you don't really need to reply at this point?
You can say I will reply by ..............
It's ok OD, it really truly is.
V
Note to mods.
I see my post was edited to remove a book. This was actually recommended to me by DB coach Chuck. So does that rule still apply?
Hi OD,
You sound so different then a few months ago. It's nice to see that you are encouraged to think about yourself and let your life improve.
You are reaching some detachment and it will help you to see other things around you that you were blind for.
You WW sounds like she still holds a lot of resentment and that is a no winning ticket right now. Best, is that you take this time and improve yourself and your life during the this time.
Regarding the kids, I understand the arrangement is done this way because you do not live very close, but if there is any way you can make a point that you want to be a present parent in their lives, I would.
My kids are suffering a lot because their dad does not care much. So, if you care, then your WW needs to understand and respect that, because it is important for the kids. Even if it is a hassle for her, she feels the inconvenience because of her choices, then be it.
It is not a hateful remark, the way I see it, it's just the consequences of a separation, and that is on her. If she really love her kids, then she will want them to have the father presence there.
Is there any way you can go to were they are sometimes, for a lunch or dinner, a movie? Is this every other weekend determined by the court? Because if it is not, then she needs to bend sometimes. You are just accommodating her life, and you do not need to make it any easy for her at all.
You can respect her decision but you can make your point of being a father.
That's good that you let go on that email. She sounds like she is trying to poke you with a short stick. She is probably waiting some reaction from you. Let her be, you are a different person now.
Be good for yourself OD, always let go the anger, remember that anger will give you lots of wrinkles and you will not look too good. So don't ever be angry and delay the wrinkles.
You are doing great, keep yourself steady and in the right path.
XOXO
Pink
Hello OD,
I think you are making great progress. Keep on rocking!
I hope you have a good weekend and wish you well.
Bob
Thank you rd, V, Pink & bob.
I think I am, at last, reaching some sort of detachment. I am finding that when I think of my situation these days, I can pause, step back a bit and watch instead of spiralling out of control.
I still feel so sad and incredulous that ww wouldn't lift a finger to try and repair our marriage and I still feel insanely jealous of om (I will not give them the dignity of capitals).
I don't know if ww is holding any resentment. If I had to guess, I don't think she is. I think she has decided to 'move on' as she says and is determined to do so come what may - and, as I'm out of sight, out of mind, I don't stand much chance of changing that.
Re my kids: yes, I now live four hours away. Of course I do care. I miss my whole family so much. At least ww said the kids need their father and she has no intention of replacing me as such. (Note to self - believe nothing of what they say.)
The every other weekend thing came about because I was so upset and full of rage because she started seeing om. I said I didn't want her in the house when I went back at the weekend. I changed it to every other one so she could have a weekend with them and I could have a weekend free to do whatever I liked. We have a very loose arrangement with regard to everything to the moment.
You can respect her decision but you can make your point of being a father. - Actually, I do not respect her decision. She has made it without recourse to all the facts and she refused to listen to me when I tried to ask her to go to marriage counselling. She has her blinkers on and shows no sign of taking them off. It'll be one year since bomb day tomorrow.
I got a card with a note from my in-laws on my birthday expressing sorrow 'about the break up - it's the last thing any parents ever want to hear.'
I feel compelled to set the record straight because I know she will spouted her "we're in transition, we're still friends and we're co-parenting' bull. I just want to say, actually, this isn't my idea, it's not a joint decision: nothing judgmental just that. Is that a bad idea?
OD,
All of this is difficult, isn't it? One foot in front of another..one day at a time.
As for your ILs card, zip it. Continue to taking the high road will get you very far. Yes, it is hard on them as well and I am sure they're feeling confused by all of this.
If they ever bring it up in person or by phone, then you can say your piece such as "Yeah, I too am sad by all of this. I would prefer to stay married. Thanks for the kind words."
See? Short, simple and to the point. All of that is done without stirring things up or getting into all details.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hello OD, I hope you follow Wonka's advice.
Bob
OD,
I think we are reaching the same place emotionally at the same time.
I think I am, at last, reaching some sort of detachment. I am finding that when I think of my situation these days, I can pause, step back a bit and watch instead of spiralling out of control.
Ditto.
I still feel so sad and incredulous that ww wouldn't lift a finger to try and repair our marriage
You can't control WW. They are free to make their own mistakes. Do you want to be married to someone who does not want to invest in marriage? What if you were dating someone who had no interest in commitment or marriage? Now it is no different.
and I still feel insanely jealous of om (I will not give them the dignity of capitals).
Here is where we differ. Anyone who would do this to a family is a hollow empty individual. no integrity. What does his future hold? What is his legacy? Does he have anything of which to be proud? You do. You took the high road - that is something you can tell your grandchildren. Don't be jealous of someone like that. He has nothing on you.
Actually, I do not respect her decision. She has made it without recourse to all the facts and she refused to listen to me when I tried to ask her to go to marriage counselling. She has her blinkers on and shows no sign of taking them off.
You don't have to respect her decision. I used to ask my WW how she could do this to the children. It is a very selfish act. But WW will never see it as such.
I got a card with a note from my in-laws on my birthday expressing sorrow 'about the break up
At least your ILs aren't conspiring with your WW. My ILs support my Ws actions 100%. In fact, they are probably her biggest cheerleaders and enablers. I would have appreciated some sort of apology from them.
I feel compelled to set the record straight because I know she will spouted her "we're in transition, we're still friends and we're co-parenting' bull. I just want to say, actually, this isn't my idea, it's not a joint decision: nothing judgmental just that. Is that a bad idea?
No. I think Wonka has some sort of script stating that D is not what we wanted. We can be civil but we are
not going to be friends after D. Not sure where I saw it. Sorry. Furthermore, you are not obligated to say this was your idea. MWD wrote the following:
However, there is a consensus among professionals about a particular piece of advice with which I vehemently disagree. It goes like this- When breaking the news to the kids, parents should always present a united front. Regardless of the reasons for the divorce, parents are instructed to say that it is a decision made by both of them. Really? The truth is that most divorces in our country are unilateral decisions- one person wants out and the other desperately wants to keep the marriage and family together. In the rare situation where both partners are equally motivated to end their marriage, a united front makes sense. But when two parents are at odds about the viability of their relationship and tell the children that it is a mutual decision, it is a flat-out lie.
I have the rest of the article if you are interested.
RAI
Od you seem to be doing really well.
I'm glad you went really really dark, it really does help when your in that really dark deep hole.
Let's hope things continue in the postaive light for your own life for the near future and you will be suprised how fast things will change. Once they start things can happen faster than you will know.
Hi OD. Just to agree with the above. Your doing well mate
Take care. Rd
Thanks Wonka. And bob, I will.
But the urge to just write something is so strong. It's quite likely I will never see them again. They live the other side of the country, don't travel anywhere (never have done) and ww has left me behind whenever she takes the kids now. I've just wished FIL a happy birthday that's all.
RAI I'm glad to hear of your own detachment.
The jealousy thing. I'm not jealous of who he is. You're right, what man of integrity moves in on another's wife. She will have given him the 'all clear' but he's still a scumbag. I am jealous of the fact that he now has full access to my wife. That is still hard to bear.
Yes, where is that article by MWD? I struggle with what to tell them every time. So far, I haven't said anything.
Thanks for posting. Today is the anniversary of bomb day and so far I'm holding up.
Hi OD, yesterday I had noticed that today was the bombiversary so I wanted to be sure and stop by today. You do seem to have moved a little further down the path lately, keep on going OD!
OD,
My BD #1 was on my 15th wedding anniversary. It hurts. I really sympathize.
"I am jealous of the fact that he now has full access to my wife." First, she is not really your wife - i.e. the woman you married - she is a completely different person (think alien abduction!). Second, do you still really want full access to your W the way she is treating you? Would you accept her back the way she is treating you right now? I certainly hope not. Your ego wants her back - I totally get that - because we want to control what WW is doing. And your memory wants her back because you long for your old W.
Also, you are assuming they are happy together. WW and OM are very broken people inside. What they have is an illusion. all smoke and mirrors. There is still nothing about which to be jealous. I get it, though - easier said than done. That is why we both need to detach. Day by day.
RAI
P.S. I will post the article on my thread
Hi SunnyB. Thank you that's very thoughtful of you.
RAI. I know what you're saying and you're right. I don't want the person who can act like this and treat me this way. I do want my old wife back. The one I could talk to and discuss things with. The one who said we should never go to bed with things left unsaid. I know I was always the one who would leave things unsaid, I like to think I'd be better at that now. I know I could do a much better job at being a husband now. It hurts not to be given the chance.
I've no idea if they are happy. Judging by the cards she got on her birthday/valentine's day, he is. For a couple of months after bomb day, she would sit by herself deep in thought but then I think she got a grip and started her own GAL strategy which now includes om. So I don't actually think she is unhappy.
There are other pressures now such as losing her job, our tenants moving out so we have to sell our house and looking after the kids single handed. There's not much different here though as I've been working away from home for three years and she's got used to it. And this, in my opinion is one of the major factors in this and why I don't think she will consider reconciliation.
So, what can I do? I can work being the best I can be. And that's a long road.
I'll pop over to your thread shortly RAI. I'm stealing a little work time now.
Hi OD. Can I just say you seem to have come to realise what it's all about It was said to me by MrBond that our changes are for us because WAS had already made their mind up it was finished. Your W proberbly tried for years before given up
You have to be the best you can be for you first and foremost and then , maybe it might help a new R with W or someone else
It's great to read where you are now compared to a couple of weeks ago
Day by day mate. You will get there. Take care. Rd
OD,
Have you read the thread by etaoin in the Surviving Infidelity bulletin board? You should. It is quite triggery, just warning you.
According to Etaoin, a WH, The WS knows what they have done. If they don't understand the destruction they are causing, they eventually will. They have to live with the guilt and have to live a facade every day. Every day, they expend a great deal of energy building a narrative that supports their actions. So I ask again: How can someone like that be happy?
Happiness comes from a life lived well. AND YOU ARE DOING IT.
RAI
rd. Yes you and MrBond are right. One year ago was the cut off point and she made no bones about it being all over, nothing to be done, it is was it is. No chance of going to marriage counselling.
We had been to Relate (MC) a few years ago but it didn't work as it wasn't action orientated, just a talking shop. She even wheeled out something that I apparently said once "you won't change me" which of course is true, we can only change each other but she used this as part of her excuse that I wasn't able or willing to change. I tried to say I didn't know how, but of course it's 'too little, too late'.
I think she tried half heartedly after Relate but I'm beginning to think maybe she has had this in the back of her mind for years as om is her ex boss from a previous job. As I mentioned, to my mind the killer was me taking a two month contrast job away from home that turned into years. We didn't make enough effort to stay close and drifted apart.
RAI. I haven't really read much on the other boards. I'll have a look though. ww sent me a text, a couple of months ago, in response to me saying she didn't care how I feel, trying to tell me "I do care how you feel. Knowing I can't do anything to help it or alter it pains me in a way you undoubtedly wouldn't iamagine. And I will probably carry that with me indefinitely."
I didn't reply.
I'm sorry you were bomb out on your anniversary. That was very insensitive.
OD,
My heart goes out to you because I know from my heart all what you mean. It's very hard to just let go of all what we have or tough we had.
Unfortunately, the longer we keep ourselves dependent on our old R that has came to an end, the worse it is for ourselves to grow into better persons and have a shot of some happiness with the WAS or not.
I think you got it all what you need to do to improve your life and maybe even have a new R with your W. The only thing left now is to deal with this every day.
I believe that the important factor now is to keep yourself busy, have some GAL to promote good PMA, take one day at a time. Like many others say to us, I now am a believer... it is a one day at a time deal.
You are doing great, growing and learning, things will get easier. And who knows what life has in storage for you? No one, we just know that you can be happier if you want to.
Take care,
Pink
The next thing I'm pondering is ... I am the one whose name is on all the utilities, gas, leccy, water and jointly for council tax, the 'family' car and the rent.
Should I transfer all these to her? I'm gradually changing the address for all my other non-family stuff. My car, driving licence, voting reg is all at the flat.
Pros, cons?
You've come a long way, NS-OD, with a ton of effort and I'm proud of you.
WRT transferring the utilities... Can you? Here it would be difficult for an unemployed person to have the credit for the service to be transferred.
But I think it would be a powerful thing to do if your lawyer concurred.
I agree with Maybell, maybe talk to your lawyer and check what are your options regarding the utilities.
In my case, since I have D process running, it will be all decided when in mediation, we will need to reach an agreement of who pays what until it is all resolved and then the court states that X will be in H's name and Y will be in my name.
Since I am negotiating the house with H, all utilities will pass to my name.
It socks to think about all this, it seems so much work and so much energy spent towards this stuff. But we need to face reality and resolve all the financial side. That is serious business and we need to think we can regret tomorrow if we don't resolve it now.
But, my best advice would be to talk to your lawyer and have it cover by law before you make any decision. It's in your best interest and will keep you protect.
Good luck!
Pink
Another text from ww.
Whatever we decide for S12's birthday - most important is that he has an enjoyable time.
In our current situation, a day trip together to a random location feels ambitious. A specific attraction/play/film/show would at least give focus.
I understand your reserve about overspending. If necessary we could always revert to the idea of celebrating separately, and I could ask my mum to pay towards an activity.
But it would be preferable to try to agree on something for the 4 of us, now that we've told him that's the intention.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. She obviously thinks I'm going to call her a selfish **** again.
And it was she that suggested spending well over a ton on travelling to London and going one or two events. I reminded her that she doesn't actually have a job. Sheesh!
Mind you. Even though I suggested joining up with them. I don't want to spend any more time with her than necessary.
OD,
I actually think this email was somewhat reasonable. She's made suggestions: 1) Celebrate separately 2) All together.
So you have two options. What are you going to do?
OD,
I wonder if this anger that you show when you write about her, if it is showing when you interact with her in any given moment.
You seems to accept that this is the attitude for a WAS and yet it drives you bananas.
I hope you wait a few hours or a day to answer every single time she sticks the knife on your chest. Don't read too much on what she is saying or doing. Give some time, be patient and just keep your boundaries tight, so she won't hurt you all the time.
Think about what is best in this situation, if you go together you have a chance to show you have been changing and is somewhat detached from her. If you go separate, then you can rest and take it easy, because you don't need to feel uncomfortable all the time.
Sometimes less is a lot more.
Take care,
Pink
Hi OD, just wanted to drop in and say you are doing so well and I am very proud of you. You're getting stronger each day! Someday you will look back on this and be grateful for the lessons and benefits of this terrible situation.
Big hug, Lisa
I'm with Wonka and Pink on this one. The text seems quite reasonable tome, why does it yank at you so, OD, and does this show to WW?
It's because she feels the need to remind me that I have to behave for S12's birthday. I have tried my very best to be a good positive role model for my kids. And you know I think I've done a brilliant job despite everything.
I don't actually feel anger any longer, just a bit irritated. And obviously, living the other end on the country and going super dark she can't see any changes in me.
Thanks for your support and hugs (I like these the best :-).
Just coming back to what you asked Pink,
I wonder if this anger that you show when you write about her, if it is showing when you interact with her in any given moment.
From when I learned about her affair up until the weekend before last, I was simmering with rage. I gave a her really hard angry stares when she went out to om and I did once yell at her and call her a selfish ****. The next time I saw her, I said I didn't want her in the house when I was back for the weekend and that I would only come back every other weekend. Since then, I haven't seen her - actually no, that isn't quite true, we ignored each other outside the train station quite early on after the separation - and contact by text, email or phone is minimal and focused on the logistics of the children.
No, I don't reply straight away. I am learning to be patient. In fact I often wait a few days. I've never really had boundaries. The only one I brought up was the when she brought home some sexually explicit birthday cards, valentines card and a sex bond from om. I said If I ever saw them or anything like them in the house again I would destroy them.she wasn't best pleased about that but I said it was utterly disrespectful and she removed them. Mind you, they might be back now, hidden somewhere seeing as she lost her job: or they may be at om's house.
What is the best situation? It's the one where S12 has a great birthday. I said I was willing to join them to try and make it more of a family occasion. I feel as though I can do that now. I will concentrate on my boys and just be civil with her: she doesn't deserve anything more.
I have been trying to get him to think of something to do, but I guess a day trip would be quite a strain so in that sense she is right. What I didn't want was to be shunted off to the next day.
I hope this goes some way to explaining my thinking. I'm not sure what I'm thinking or what's a dumb idea sometimes. That's why we're here.
And Lisa, I am already grateful to some extent for this terrible episode. I would never have learnt so much about me or relationships without it. A work colleague has just got married and another one is going to soon - I'm going to the reception - and I want to give them 5LL or HNHN. I think they, or similar should be mandatory for couples.
I want to give them 5LL or HNHN. I think they, or similar should be mandatory for couples.
I gave out that book to 2 couples recently.
Also they both should help you figuring out YOUR needs.
As per todays discussion.
:-) Yes, I'll be dipping in to them again.
The next thing I'm pondering is ... I am the one whose name is on all the utilities, gas, leccy, water and jointly for council tax, the 'family' car and the rent.
Should I transfer all these to her? I'm gradually changing the address for all my other non-family stuff. My car, driving licence, voting reg is all at the flat.
Pros, cons?
Absolutely OD. Get those Fins sorted, be safe, this is your future and that of your boys.
Thank you for your support OD. Is there an activity you could do together but not be together? Thinking of go karting or laser quest........
V
... Is there an activity you could do together but not be together? Thinking of go karting or laser quest........
V
Ha! Yes, I could run her off the track or shoot her continuously :-)
How about jousting without armour?
Rock climbing no ropes or bungee jumping with shears.
Parachuting with scissors.
My imagination is running riot OD.
Maybe my H could join her paragliding over the middle of the Atlantic in a paper glider.
Tell you what put them up for Big Brother contestants.
V
Ho ho! All excellent suggestions :-)
Oh how I missed V on the boards!!!
Gan
I was only gone 10 minutes.
Mooooose
V
Well I survived the day. Just to recap, it was S12 ... no S13's birthday yesterday (Saturday) and I agreed to doing some activity all together.
In the end, we did one of my ideas which was to go Scalextric racing, and then went for a meal. I told myself to keep calm, STFU, and put on a happy face for my boys.
And I did it. V signs were minimal and out of sight, mutterings, also minimal and restrained. I largely ignored ww apart from when we really did need to decide some things ... oh, and I held firm over my change of visiting week when she said she'd arranged something in a few weeks time.
I had a laugh and a good time with my boys and she was there too. Time for sleep now.
Really pleased for you OD, you put S13 birthday first above all.
Maturity personified.
Waited to hear, I can sleep.
V
Today, our tenants moved out. This means we are under financial pressure as we still have to pay the rent for the hose ww and the kids live in, the mortgage for the house we own and I also have to pay rent for the flay I live in ... and ww had no job. Mind you she's still talking of taking the kids on holiday with money her mother is giving her.
We met at our house this afternoon to check the house and so the tenants could hand over the keys. I rolled up with S13 and the top down and parked right outside, so this was the first time she'd seen my new car. I parked it out of sight yesterday and then thought why am i doing this? She knows I've got it as S(now)13 showed her a pic on my fb page. Anyway she didn't mention it, not that I thought she would.
Again we didn't speak other than business. I gave S13 a hug said goodbye to him, ignored her and drove off back to my flat.
It'll take a while longer to be anything other than just civil I think. I'm not at the friendly neighbour stage but I'm not trying to kill her with evil looks now and I'm not simmering with rage.
Detachment is good.
Detachment is good - keep it up OD (it is getting easier - isn't it?) Let her stew about the car - I'm sure she notices.
I have been on a similar anger train that you have described in the last couple of weeks - I may know how you feel.
I wish you luck with the financial mess that you are stepping in.
Cheers!
OD
I get fin mess, in a big way too.
One day at a time. Are you going to get new tenants?
V
Sounds like you handling the meeting very well Baby steps OD but you are getting there. Well done mate.
Take care. Rd
Thanks all. We're going to sell the house ... hopefully, though I can't believe next door but one, two and three are up for sale as well!
She certainly noticed the car as she pulled up in front of it :-) I'm trying not think about what she might think of it, whether she stews or not, I don't care.
I hope the anger train stops at a station soon u. It's difficult to derail that thing.
A bit worrying about fins, but I'm pleased with my baby steps.
And you should be pleased.
I am!
V
Speaking of baby steps.
I think the baby maybe a giant baby. And the baby might be heading in a different direction.
I've got a date!
Wow, OD! What a difference from you in just a few weeks. Good for you!
Hi OD, pleased to hear about your date. Like many of us, you may well not be at all ready to think about another relationship. But if you are honest about your circumstances and keep things on a light and friendly basis, sounds good to me!
I just think it's important to remain self-aware, and be sure that you are not seeking validation or trying to skip painful steps you know?
I hope you enjoy yourself anyway!
If you are ready to date then I am really pleased.
Tell me about your date, what will you do, where will you go.
V
She's a dancing partner at Leroc. We went to see Milton Jones, a favourite comedian of mine. I only discovered he was playing yesterday morning and asked my new lady friend if she'd like to go at Leroc.
Milton is a one liner genius: I love him. Afterwards we came back to my flat for a nice cup of tea and Mr Sainsbury's finest Torte au Citron - nom nom nom.
She's just gone home now but we had a nice chat about who we are, where we are, where we're going and that sort of thing. Speed investigation :-) She's divorced and knows the basics of my situation though I didn't mention DB.
It took a lot for me to do this, but it feels nice to have someone interested in you.
The continuing story of Bungalow Bill ... er no, I mean Old Dog and his efforts to learn a new trick.
Old dog seeks new trick 15