I am new to the site here and just looking for some comments and encouragement. I have looked around and some of the stuff has been very valuable for me.
My wife and I have been married for almost 6 years and everything seemed to be going really well. she started acting a little "off" around august of last year, I asked if things were going OK and she said she thought she was having a pre-mid life crisis. I tried to get more information but she was just very vague. She said she thought things were kind of stale, but I didn't fully understand that. We both have great jobs, a healthy and happy toddler, and a great house. Our marriage has been smooth sailing so I wasn't sure what she was insinuating.
Well a month or so later she was being very secretive with her phone and she finally told me she was seeing a counselor, and she didn't want to tell me because she thought I would be judgmental about this. I told her if she thought this is what she needed I was all for that. I asked her if I should go to the counselor with her or if there was anything I could do to help and she insisted that it was just something with her; not with us or with me. she even told me at one point she needs me to stop focusing on "us" and start focusing on "her" I respectfully told her if she had something going on then WE have something going on.
Well fast forward to the end of the year and she finally sits me down and basically says she doesn't feel important to me, she needs me to pursue her. Well I started doing all of those things, because I realized how important that was to her. I told her how appreciative I was of her telling me that info. I did everything she asked and more. I thought this would help us. Well at the beginning of the year she told me she thought divorce was an option. This blind sided me because I had no idea she was this unhappy with things. We took a trip a week before that and things seemed great. all of the reinforcement she was giving me was positive up to that point. Well for a month we were basically just roommates. She didn't want to talk, she didn't want to see a counselor together, she completely shut me out.
Well February hits and I find out she has been having an emotional affair with someone and it was somewhat physical. I found this out, she didn't tell me. She told me she loved the guy and I couldn't love her like he does. This was 3 months ago and things have somewhat improved but she is still very resentful towards me and she seems very unremorseful about the things she has done. She still thinks divorce is an option and she has said she has been giving me a chance since December (before I found out any information and before she ended the affair). I unfortunately did the begging and pleading at first, but now I'm trying to show more self confidence and self respect with my actions and behaviors.
One of the things my wife has said is how she doesn't trust me and how I don't understand or respect her feelings. She thinks she has been pretending to be this person she isn't for so long and she blames me for this. She thinks she had to be this person to make me happy and I didn't care about that. I told her I didn't know she felt this way, I want her to be her, not be someone she thinks she is supposed to be. What I don't understand is she never said anything to me about this, ever. I know I am a part of this issue and my failure to notice things played a part, but ever since she has opened up to me I have been nothing by understanding, sympathetic, encouraging, and loving, even when she is disrespectful and hateful towards me. i'm definitely not smothering her anymore. There have been some good days and some bad days, I just don't understand how this person who has always adored me has become so bitter and resentful towards me. It's like I am being punished for crimes I never knew I was committing. My actions since I have found out everything should show her how much I care and love for her. She questions me on all of this, but I want to scream that she is the one who had an affair, not me. If you honestly looked at how we are behaving towards each other you would think I was the one who cheated on her, and i'm the one who is to blame for everything.
On a side note, I think the emotional affair has played a huge part in this. I embarrassingly enabled her to continue talking with this guy for about a month after I found out, but I have since told her if she talks with him again then I am leaving and then I am going to go talk with him. I still don't think she has completely let the thoughts of that guy go, and I think some of her resent is from me ruining her fairy tale with this guy. I get consumed by the day to day thoughts of everything, but sometimes I take a step back and I'm just like how in the world did this happen? My wife never gave me any negative reinforcement with what I was or wasn't doing. I know it sounds cliché but never in a million years would I imagine this is where we are at. Everyone who knows her is just speechless about what she has done and what she is doing.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Kem. Sorry you are here mate. You are in good company. You will get good advice here so keep posting and ask questions. Post on other threads and others will chip in. I feel your pain. I too have a WW as well. Like you when she bd'ed I was devistated. Read the links cadet posted. They are a gold mine of information. Pay particular attention to sandi2's threads on the wayward wife. It will help. They say around here it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Be prepared for the long haul. Good luck.
Thanks Cadet and NDY. NDY, looks like your BD was about 3 months before mine. I am definitely in it for the long haul. Luckily this situation has helped me mature as a man and it has definitely renewed me relationship with the Lord. I try to focus on the positive things that happen, but they easily get overshadowed when I think we have taken a step back.
I constantly say I know I won't understand my WW behavior, it's still hard for me to accept that. It's just still so shocking to me that all of this has happened. I'm so thankful to have found this site.
She meets with our marriage counselor on Thursday and I will go on Friday; I am praying this is the right counselor for our situation. She has been seeing a counselor on her own and I have my doubts on how beneficial that has been.
I'm still having a hard time accepting her emotions are going to be all over the place. She seemed to be in a good mood yesterday and seemed to be somewhat seeking out my attention, but I leave and then come home from a meeting and she just seems annoyed at me and thinks what we are doing is a waste of time. She doesn't want to talk about anything, but she gets angry that I'm not bringing anything up about our situation. I bring stuff up and then she gets annoyed that I'm trying to solve our problem.
I bring stuff up and then she gets annoyed that I'm trying to solve our problem.
Yea best to 180 that behavior
I'm still having a hard time accepting her emotions are going to be all over the place. She seemed to be in a good mood yesterday and seemed to be somewhat seeking out my attention, but I leave and then come home from a meeting and she just seems annoyed at me and thinks what we are doing is a waste of time. She doesn't want to talk about anything, but she gets angry that I'm not bringing anything up about our situation. I bring stuff up and then she gets annoyed that I'm trying to solve our problem.
Like cadet says. 180 that right away. No R talks. Don't try to 'Fix' anything. She doesn't want to be 'Fixed'. Don't argue, don't contradict. If she wants to talk then validate (the validation cheat sheet is in cadets links).
Kembo, keep posting and keep breathing. You can get through this.
First thing, get a DB coach. The service is listed at the top of this page. Trust me, you need someone in your corner to help you navigate. Don't tell your W. Just do it. Oh- call from a different phone other than your cell, if she sees an unknown number and google searches it she'll come right to this site and may find your posts. Don't let her find this site. Clear your browser, preferably use a computer she doesn't have access to.
Agreed with Cadet. Read Sandi's rules daily (sticky on newcomer's thread). It sounds like you've read them at some point, but now make them habit.
And detach. Stop trying to anticipate her mood. Your W is like an addict, or a 3 year old child. You don't let their moods control your feelings and behavior or you will get walked on. You have to grow up in maturity like 400% through this process, so start right now.
As for your sitch, I'd recommend focusing on your behavior. In your first post you talk a lot about the 'why's', feeling you never were told, this can be fixed, how could she, etc, etc, etc. I don't have time to reply to all that, it's very normal to feel this way. But at this moment you need to get past your pain and confusion.
You should be focusing on a few things. Detaching. 180s- areas you've identified that aren't your best self (to see this you have to understand her pain which means seeing past yours, I don't know you've done this...you can talk it, but you can't feel it because you don't get it). GAL activity. And observing the general rules above. That with some coaching, and of course read the DR/DB books.
Yes, that's a lot to do, but maybe it can be your GAL activity? Hang in, get through today.
I'm definitely an over-analyzer. She lost it on me a couple of weeks ago because I wasn't bringing any of our issues up, she said she was so exhausted from pretending like everything is OK and then she gets annoyed if I do bring anything up. I guess I just have to accept nothing I do is going to make her happy right now?
I should just talk about R when she brings things up, right? I have been working on the validation. It just seems she expects me to bring up stuff but then it's like immediate annoyance. Sounds like I am answering my own question...
Me:32 Her:29
M:5
Daughter:2
BD: 2014/2/13
Sounds like I am answering my own question...
Me:32 Her:29
M:5
Daughter:2
BD: 2014/2/13
YES
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I been looking at the 180 info a lot and I guess im a little unsure on some of it. One of our issues was I used to put my wants ahead of hers, if we both had something we wanted to do on our own I would normally be the one to go because she was always so willing to stay behind to watch our daughter. Situations like this were very rare, but with the 180's I should be more willing to let her do her own thing now, right?
Again, these situations are rare but I think it would be important for her to see that I am sacrificing my time because I never really did that. thoughts?
My W talked to me last night and she communicated some stuff about how she was upset and confused that I never recognized her feelings and I dismissed her feelings for so long. I just validated what she said and then she would say she did a really good job of pretending like everything was OK and then she would go back to saying she didn't understand how I didn't check on her or recognize her feelings.
I definitely have different opinions about this issue because she never gave me anything but positive reinforcement and constantly telling me how lucky she was and how happy she was. So all of that is a little confusing.
I do know she is not logical right now so i'm not putting a ton of emotions into what she said. I just hope me listening and validating what she was saying is good in the long run
Any of the vets have an opinion on this? It seems good she is at least opening up some. We also had a short convo this morning and she apologized for over-reacting about something things and she explained why she felt that way.
Again, im not putting too mush stake or emotion into this because I wouldn't be surprised if she just did a 180 on her attitude later this weekend
This is similar to what I'm going through, I'm just as confused so your not alone
yeah, it is definitely a relief to know im not the only one fighting this battle. It's just a roller coaster and I have to be the one who is composed because my W sure as heck isn't.
She has always avoided confrontation so I know this is even harder for her.
HiKem
I'm not a vet as you know and I do hope one looks in on you at some point. FWIW I think you did very well. Here are the things I know about a WW.
They re write history. What you remember as the past isn't how she will describe it. this is why the validating helps. What ever you do don't argue with her about it. That may come in time but not now.
They are driven by emotion. That means any logic is out of the window.
Forget using words to persuade her. Use actions instead.
The 180 concept can be difficult to implement. Subtle and consistent at the start works best. Big changes will only be seen as fake and she will baulk at them. And you have to mean it as well. If she smells fakery it will only set you back.
Keep posting.
Thanks NDY, I don't know who said it but the best thing I have heard so far is that she will act like an addict/3 year old. My initial instinct was to explain she wasn't looking at the whole picture and to tell her she is putting all the blame on me when she has a part in this BUT, I know that is pointless right now. She is definitely running wild with her emotions.
I have noticed by my validating she is more willing to talk and open up a little more. Granted most of the time she is just criticizing me for stuff I did or didn't do, but I can take the heat.
Thanks NDY, I don't know who said it but the best thing I have heard so far is that she will act like an addict/3 year old. My initial instinct was to explain she wasn't looking at the whole picture and to tell her she is putting all the blame on me when she has a part in this BUT, I know that is pointless right now. She is definitely running wild with her emotions.
I have noticed by my validating she is more willing to talk and open up a little more. Granted most of the time she is just criticizing me for stuff I did or didn't do, but I can take the heat.
It is so true. The A is addictive and you are standing in the way of her happiness. At least that's the way they see it.
I'm glad you can take the heat. As cadet says get yourself a spew jacket coz your going to need one. Have you read sandi2's threads on the WW yet? They are required reading for people in our situation.
Yeah, I am HOPING the A is over; I know contact has been very minimal but I do think that "mourning" process is going to take some time.
I have definitely taken my hits, I don't know if I need a spew jacket or a bullet proof vest.
I have read the WW threads. They were invaluable to me. This might be a vague question by how long at they wayward after affair is over? are things still pretty much the same until the piecing starts?
Yeah, I am HOPING the A is over; I know contact has been very minimal but I do think that "mourning" process is going to take some time.
I have definitely taken my hits, I don't know if I need a spew jacket or a bullet proof vest.
I have read the WW threads. They were invaluable to me. This might be a vague question by how long at they wayward after affair is over? are things still pretty much the same until the piecing starts?
I have no idea. My WW is still very active I her A and no signs of stopping. And here comes the hard part. Right now the A is a far more attractive proposition than her M. To her, he is her knight in shining armour. You are the enemy. Harsh but true. Now. If you want your W back, really want her back your objective is to make you a far more attractive proposition than him. Get my drift?
I see what you're saying but My situation is a little different. I still think my wife feels trapped but her A was never realistic. I don't think she accepted that until recently but she still was randomly seeking out comfort from this clown. When she BD she said she was in love and I couldn't love her like him.
She is naturally super stubborn and I think she is holding out on forgiving me because she looks at that like she was in the wrong.
I'm def not trying to figure her out anymore. I'm just doing what I can, definitely GAL, validating, and 180s
While it may be different for you, I believe that an emotional affair, a physical affair, and an imaginary affair (as you may be describing) are all the same trigger to the WW. It makes them BELIEVE that there is something better out there. Of course there's some difference in how hard it is on the LBS, but I don't know that it changes the way the WW feels about the LBS.
While it may be different for you, I believe that an emotional affair, a physical affair, and an imaginary affair (as you may be describing) are all the same trigger to the WW. It makes them BELIEVE that there is something better out there. Of course there's some difference in how hard it is on the LBS, but I don't know that it changes the way the WW feels about the LBS.
I agree with this. One other thing that I have to bring up was sandi's description on the WW crossing the line. How in the beginning they need to build up their confidence, constantly telling themselves what they are doing is wrong but once the line is crossed it gets easier and easier to escalate the situation until they are in full blown WW mode which is very hard to come back from. A lot never do.
Oh I agree completely Matt. My W was having an emotional affair and although I don't think they talk anymore I know she is sad they don't have any sort of relationship. She definitely thought the grass was greener on the other side. Deep down I think she knew it wasn't realistic but that didn't matter at the time because how she felt with him.
She definitely fits the description of a WW. I'm just hoping she finally comes around, until then I know I just have to do what I can
Hi again Kem
May I ask, what makes you think that your W has cut contact with the OM? Reason I'm asking is when my W BD'ed I basically said the same to her i.e. cut contact and stop all this or I'm off. At that time she even offered me her phone to check that she had deleted his number and his txt's. Guess what, she was lying.
Remember believe nothing of what they say and 50% of what they do.
Yeah you are right NDY. I "think" she has cut ties with him but obviously I don't know for sure. I've accepted I can't control that aspect of it so I just try to be optimistic about it.
How was your W contacting OM outside of her phone/email? I'm no dummy in new emails and stuff like that, just curious on how you found out?
Yeah you are right NDY. I "think" she has cut ties with him but obviously I don't know for sure. I've accepted I can't control that aspect of it so I just try to be optimistic about it.
How was your W contacting OM outside of her phone/email? I'm no dummy in new emails and stuff like that, just curious on how you found out?
She works with him dude. She sees him every day at the office. And she has a works phone and so does he. Would you like his number?
Sorry man. Didn't know your whole story
Yeah you are right NDY. I "think" she has cut ties with him but obviously I don't know for sure. I've accepted I can't control that aspect of it so I just try to be optimistic about it.
Hello Kembo,
Like Cadet writes, I'm sorry that you have to be here but you have come to the right place. I just went thru your entire thread and your situation (except for the A) sounds so similar to mine--even the timeframe. I had a feeling something wasn't right between me and my WAW in August, be she said all was well. In October, while I was out of town visiting my son, she left and filed for D the next day. I have 5 threads now on this forum. Fast forward, she is still living with her Mom/Stepdad 3 1/2 hrs away. She has MS, low self-esteem, and I got over-protective but didn't realize it until she left and eventually told me. She said I was "smothering" her and she wants her "life back." I see where I came across as that and have owned up to it.
I was happy to see that you are trying to be optimistic about this. That was going to be my suggestion.
I am on this forum a lot but I am heading out of town for the weekend to go to a life-long friend's summer home 2 hrs away, my GAL for this weekend.
Please take things one day at a time. Easier said than done, I know. But you sound like a fantastic guy with a good head on his shoulders.
You can DB...I am sure of it!
Take care my new friend.
Bob
Yeah you are right NDY. I "think" she has cut ties with him but obviously I don't know for sure. I've accepted I can't control that aspect of it so I just try to be optimistic about it.
How was your W contacting OM outside of her phone/email? I'm no dummy in new emails and stuff like that, just curious on how you found out?
Also - pretty sure you can skype or FB messenger call and such that only uses data but doesn't count as "phone calls"
Bob, thanks for the kind words. Sorry to hear you are going through a similar situation but it's nice to know people understand what you're going through. My W and I are both apart this weekend and I'm hoping it's a good break for both of us. She has shown some small signs of empathy but like bob said I'm trying to take it one day at a time
I'm trying to enjoy the weekend but it's just hard to not think about the situation.
Hi Kembo, I'm glad you found the DB board, but sorry for your situation. If you will stay with us, I believe you will discover this is a great group of supports, as well as a source of valuable information for you.
If you read other threads on the board, you will find how similar your story is with the majority of the men here. Of course, most people think their situation is a little different, but for the most part, whenever there is a wayward wife involved.......the core problems are the same.
I also notice many men say they have a very stubborn WW. Well, WW's don't come much more stubborn and prideful as I was, however, my M was eventually saved, and yours can be saved, too.
I truly was in the minority when I arrived. I was wayward, had shut down my M, and was in an A. Wasn't trying to save my M when I first posted, but needed someone to talk to me and help me sort things out. They did! I have stuck around all these years to hopefully pay it forward.
This situation of yours will not end quickly. There is no way of knowing how long it could take before reconciling. I want you to know right here & now, that even though you can't control her.......your actions has tremdous influence on how this will go. Some LBH's tells himself, "There is nothing I can do, since I can't control her, so I will just have to wait till she comes out of it". When I see a statement like that made, I'm thinking that man has the wrong idea about this whole thing.
First of all, if you wait around, thinking she will eventually get "over it" or "come to her senses"......or whatever, you will probably have a miserable life in store for you. In other words, it is setting yourself up for defeat.
You need to enter into a protection mode, and you're the one you will be protecting. Your focus must be on your health, keeping emotionally balanced, work to have a new social life, strive to meet personal goals, stay active, find your inner strength, and build your confidence. Study the link Cadet gave you that explains DBing detachment and don't just assume you already know what it means to detach.
I don't know your ages, but I doubt your W is in any kind of pre-MLC. She is in an A, and will tell you anything to throw the spotlight on something other than the fact she is scr@wing another guy.
Not to insult your intelligence whatsoever, but if you will look up the synonyms of wayward woman, you may find it interesting.
You cannot trust her right now. All cheaters lie.
I'm still having a hard time accepting her emotions are going to be all over the place. She seemed to be in a good mood yesterday and seemed to be somewhat seeking out my attention, but I leave and then come home from a meeting and she just seems annoyed at me and thinks what we are doing is a waste of time
Prime example of why a H has to detach (DBing style) from his WW. She will always operate out of her emotions (which will continue to be like a roller coaster). If you base your day, decisions, moods, etc., on her however she's feeling that day.........you are in for a terrible ordeal. Have no expectations of her feeling better toward you or the MR anytime soon. It just does not happen that way. Ever! Your job is to go on with living your life and not allow her feelings to rule you.
Okay, so all that stuff you said, or she said, about what you had done wrong in the MR previously (selfishness, etc.) you need to make it a goal for personal improvement. But here's the thing, she is using all those things as her
excuse now. I'm sure it was not great for the MR, and it would have been smart if you had corrected these things in the past. Like I said, it played a part in things reaching this point, but right now......her waywardness is the biggest problem. You could be become what you think she wants overnight, yet it would not change anything in the M, b/c she would still be wayward. As long as she's wayward, the problem will continue.
Many men start doing all the cooking, all the cleaning, all the child care, everything on the home front. Why men think that is being the perfect H, I will never know! So, don't start doing 100% of all the chores, thinking it is winning her back.
I need to close this post, but if you don't understand anything I've said, please ask.
I guess I am a little confused on the difference between the 180's and the detachment. One thing my W always kind of complained about was things being somewhat stale between us, I think if I detach from her she will look at it like I am doing what I have always done; and a 180 would be being more aware and concerned about what she is doing.
I definitely over analyze things so it's just hard for me to see the clear cut difference.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help clarify
I guess I am a little confused on the difference between the 180's and the detachment. One thing my W always kind of complained about was things being somewhat stale between us, I think if I detach from her she will look at it like I am doing what I have always done; and a 180 would be being more aware and concerned about what she is doing.
Can you be more aware and concerned with NO EXPECTATIONS?
Detachment is having no care of the outcome of your actions.
A 180 might be showing that you are concerned and caring, it also might be drinking light beer instead of vodka.
You want to stop pursuing,
unfortunately sometimes just the sound of our
voice can sometimes be perceived as pursuit.
Have you read all the homework threads?
Pursuit and distance, detachment especially.
This makes sense, and even shows how difficult this will be. I will look through the link that was originally posted. I have read all the homework threads, but I know I need to review them consistently. Thanks Cadet.
A 180 might be showing that you are concerned and caring, it also might be drinking light beer instead of vodka.
Just to be perfectly clear I am trying to say that you need to make the right 180's
Drinking Light beer instead of Vodka, is not a 180 I would recommend.
haha, I knew what you meant. Thanks again for the clarification. I can now see the importance of the 180's and detachment. The 180s aren't so tough but the detachment sure is.
Has anyone read "Love must be tough" by James Dobson? Some of the concepts are pretty similar and he talks about spouses being wayward
Well I saw the guy my wife had been having an A with when I was out running errands and I just couldn't stand it so I followed him to his house. It ended up being his brother and the guy was in the house. I didn't go there with violent or aggressive intentions, I simply wanted to talk with this guy and tell him he needs to move on and that I'm trying to fight for my family. I hope most people on here can understand that. I didn't plan on doing this or have those intentions, but when I saw his truck and what I thought was him at the time I just got overwhelmed by my emotions.
Well long story short the guys dad came out instead and he was very hostile at first but once he saw I wasn't there to cause problems we had a short convo and he was very ashamed of his son and very apologetic. He didn't feel comfortable letting his son come outside, but I told him if his son is going to run around and act like a man he needs to answer to a man and he needs to look me in my face and his dad agreed. I left and went home to tell my W because I didn't want her to find out through him. She was surprised but somewhat understanding of why I did it. She wasn't happy my 2 year old daughter was with me and after she really thought about it she threw a fit about this. She accused me of being selfish and putting what I wanted ahead of my daughters. I told her I could understand that but I knew it wasn't going to turn violent or if the situation would have escalated I would have left.
I can understand her frustration, but it wasn't a situation that was out of hand and my daughter was in the truck the whole time. I know she isn't logical right now but it sure is tough biting my lip when she is accusing me of being selfish and putting my needs ahead of my daughters when I have been fighting for my family this whole time. She put her needs ahead of everyones when she decided to be unfaithful. In a perfect world my daughter wouldn't have been with me, but I would never put my daughter in harms way, and I didn't know how the situation would turn out, but I knew how it wouldn't turn out and that was any acts of violence or some situation where I put myself or my daughter in danger.
She left the house last night and came back home around midnight. She was still obviously upset this morning and I am sure we won't have much conversation when I get home
She is simply "using" D2 as a handy excuse to get mad at you. The real reason she's upset is b/c she's concerned OM may end the A.
You must not make your validation sound as if you are guilty of what she's charging you of doing. Know what I mean?
You need to go about the rest of the week as if you are not worried or concerned that she doesn't like it b/c you went over to OM's place. She will use her anger as a control tool.
They may take the A deeper underground, and tell you that it's over. If OM tries to end it, expect her to be even angrier toward you, and I think she will pursue him.
Kembo -
I'm not going to give advice on what I think you should or should not have done. That's in the past.
For the future my advice is this: forget the OM. He's not the problem. He's a symptom of the problems between you and your W. Talking to him, his family, etc isn't going to change anything between your W and you for the better. Yes you should set some boundaries with your W, but your focus should be on yourself.
But...yeah...I feel for you.
Thanks Sandi and Matt, I agree with you both. Matt, I definitely know the OM isn't THE problem. I just saw what I thought was him and I acted on it. I knew I was never just going to go to this house and confront him, but I just got overwhelmed with a ton of emotion when I thought it was him.
His dad agreed that he needed to see me face to face. I kind of want to do this. Anyone have thoughts on this? I know it doesn't change anything but for some reason I want to look him in the eye and make him look me in mine. I don't have specific intentions, but I just want to tell him he needs to move on and tell him his actions are going to be part of a destruction of a family. He is only 21 so I know he is young and immature. Just curious to what you all think about this. His dad said he would take him somewhere public where the 2 of us can talk face to face.
Hi Kem
His dad agreed that he needed to see me face to face.
I personally could not do this. I don't have the self control.
Those emotions will get you every time. It's those very emotions that overwhelmed you that could get out of hand with OM, so be very careful.
His dad agreed that he needed to see me face to face. I kind of want to do this. Anyone have thoughts on this? I know it doesn't change anything but for some reason I want to look him in the eye and make him look me in mine. I don't have specific intentions, but I just want to tell him he needs to move on and tell him his actions are going to be part of a destruction of a family. He is only 21 so I know he is young and immature. Just curious to what you all think about this. His dad said he would take him somewhere public where the 2 of us can talk face to face.
You may want to get Starsky's opinion about meeting with OM.
If you are expecting to approach the guy with the hope he is going to do the respectable/honorable thing and step away.....I think you may need to consider a different thought, but IDK. I mean this guy is getting what he wants out of the deal now (sex with a M woman....which is a "no-no", and therefore, makes it even more exciting). So, don't put much into his
integrity. However, at 21, he may not be ready to take on a ready-made family. If he thought that she was getting ideas about marriage to him, that might scare him more than
you. Get my drift?
I get your drift. I know he isn't going to have integrity and he won't be remorseful. But you can only hide from your actions for so long. I don't think meeting him changes anything but I know he's terrified of me and I know he is hiding behind his dad. I think meeting him is more for me. I'm embarrassed I enabled my wife's decisions when I found out about affair. I did the stereotypical thing and apologized and told her I know I was a part of this and I HATE that I said those things. I think me meeting him shows I'm not putting up with this anymore; to him and my W. Does that change anything? Probably not. But at least I will get some of my self dignity back.
I still haven't completely decided what to do. I know I won't turn aggressive because that's not who I am. It may sound ridiculous but I know how terrified the OM is about meeting me and I'm glad that's the case. Part of me thinks he kept pursuing my W after I found out because he assumed I was just going to sit back and watch, I hope him meeting me will prove otherwise
I still haven't completely decided what to do. I know I won't turn aggressive because that's not who I am.
Emotions/feeling can cause people to react in ways they wouldn't have predicted, just understand you might not really know how you would react unless you were in that situation to see first hand.
An example, I'm sure our WAS's would have said they would never walk away from their M or have an A, but when emotions are involved we are capable of much more than we realize.
I still haven't completely decided what to do. I know I won't turn aggressive because that's not who I am.
Emotions/feeling can cause people to react in ways they wouldn't have predicted, just understand you might not really know how you would react unless you were in that situation to see first hand.
An example, I'm sure our WAS's would have said they would never walk away from their M or have an A, but when emotions are involved we are capable of much more than we realize.
I second this. It's your choice mate but I'd think twice. I'm honest enough to know I do not have the self dicipline to hold back and I'm no good to anyone in jail. But that's me.
I think if you do go to see him, you'll need a plan. I'm confused as to what exactly you would say to this person. Remember, your W is surely going to hear second hand anything you say (and through the eyes of someone that will exaggerate for the worse). I understand the desire to do this for you. But it feels like you're doing it to try to exert control over this situation. I fear that it won't do anything to bring you closer to keeping your M.
Just my $0.02.
Kembo,
You don't want to go all dawgy on the OM. Let me catch you up a bit on the story.
I still haven't completely decided what to do. I know I won't turn aggressive because that's not who I am. It may sound ridiculous but I know how terrified the OM is about meeting me and I'm glad that's the case. Part of me thinks he kept pursuing my W after I found out because he assumed I was just going to sit back and watch, I hope him meeting me will prove otherwise
Dawgy is a poster here (since long gone or posts very infrequently) whose W had OM. One day Dawgy saw the OM and thought like you...just wanna see who the heck the OM was for himself. Well, the moment Dawgy saw the OM...he lost it. All of his self-control went flying out of the window. Literally. Dawgy got out of his truck and proceeded to beat the OM to a pulp.
The result?
It only served to bring the W and OM closer. It was a classic case of "us against the World". Of course, it frightened the chit out of W and made her see Dawgy with a new set of eyes: he's a violent man.
Dawgy paid a very steep price for this momentary loss of rational thought. His wife is gone with the OM.
Going dawgy is now a verb around here in DB. How sad.
DO.NOT.MEET.THE.OM.
Nothing good can come out of the meeting whichever way you slice it. Besides that, OM "wins" because he got inside your head.
C'mon. The Duke didn't give punks the time of his day.
Another point to make, I'm not a violent person either, but there have been times I have imagined what I was capable of doing if I were face to face with him. This is from a person never even in a fight as an adult.
So Kembob, you know he wont be remorseful, but how would you react if he threw the A in your face and actually gloated about it? You have expectation he would be intimidated by you speaking to him, but you really don't know what hes thinking either. He could honestly say whatever he wanted to you with dad walking over in the background.
great points, I appreciate the input and I think you are all right; I don't think it would be wise to meet with him.
On a different note; I just spoke to my wife and she is meeting with attorney today to file for D
Keep your chin up, Kembo.
Filing is just one step in a long process. I know it [censored], but it isn't the end.
Never give up hope, even in the darkest times.
Thanks Matt. I think she is just running. She even said she knows this won't make her happier immediately. She justified it by saying she has been letting people tell her what to do and what not to do her whole life and she isn't doing that anymore. She also said what we are doing isn't healthy for our D2, she said it will be better for her in the long run.
but yes, it [censored]. and im just kind of like what do I do now?
Lucky for you, The D process IS a long run. That's why there are cool down periods, especially with little kids in the picture. It's OBVIOUSLY not best for your kid for you guys to D.
So use the time now to work on Kembo. Then when she realizes she doesn't want the D anymore, she will encounter s Kembo 2.0 that she can fall in love with again.
but yes, it [censored]. and im just kind of like what do I do now?
you slap on your happy face and DB. Work on you. Forget this incident. We all have something that sets us back and this is just one of yours. Get back on the horse. I don't hear any fat ladies singing.
Peace
Ironically I ordered the DB book today. I'm going to read that one real quick when it shows up.
I know this isn't what she wants, we have made some progress but we have the one setback and she just throws in her towel.
Filing for divorce is just that. It means in 6-??? Months, you'll be divorced.....if she still wants it then. That's a LONG time.
As NDY said, get to work on you. Forget about the OM and work on YOU. Also, you can't let your emotions get the best of you - be the lighthouse.
From what I've seen on here, D either happens very quickly or it ends up being dragged out a long time. In my state its a 6 month waiting period after its been filed with small children. W tried to get the paperwork started in Jan, then things fell through and I think shes just let it go for now. Even if the D is finalized it doesn't mean things are done, you decide when that happens. Don't let that piece of paper change what your doing now.
its been 105 days since I found out about the A and it says once D is filed its a minimum of 90 days with children involved.
She is acting on 100% emotion right now. Dang, I wish I would have ordered the DB book sooner.
I know things were improving and she admitted it too. Any setback we have she just has to run further and further away. We had a setback 3 weeks ago and that is when she contacted the attorney to just get info, we have a setback yesterday and that pushes her to meet with attorney and then file for D
its been 105 days since I found out about the A and it says once D is filed its a minimum of 90 days with children involved.
She is acting on 100% emotion right now. Dang, I wish I would have ordered the DB book sooner.
I know things were improving and she admitted it too. Any setback we have she just has to run further and further away. We had a setback 3 weeks ago and that is when she contacted the attorney to just get info, we have a setback yesterday and that pushes her to meet with attorney and then file for D
Dude. We have a saying here in Scotland. Chillax (chill and relax). Big scary statements like D and filing are put in front of us for a reason, and it ain't the reason you think. Stay with the plan. Do what the experts here say. Just two weeks ago my WW was spewing on my face about D and selling up. Now? Nada. I've spent a long time today thinking about detaching and what that means. These threads hold the secrete. We can do this.
Man yall are really firing me up! I need these words of encouragement and I need these reminders! I'm not freaking out but it's just scary and definitely overwhelming but this forum is a huge blessing for me and a constant reminder to keep fighting!!
I'll find out if she filed later tonight either way I'll keep moving forward
Man yall are really firing me up! I need these words of encouragement and I need these reminders! I'm not freaking out but it's just scary and definitely overwhelming but this forum is a huge blessing for me and a constant reminder to keep fighting!!
I'll find out if she filed later tonight either way I'll keep moving forward
Good man. Love the accent btw.
Losing the fear is a big deal. That's something to think about. Know why? You WILL be ok with or without your W. Now, once you accept that it will eventually transmit to your W. Apparently that's a big draw for them. Steady and slow my friend.
So m counselor said if my W has filed I should leave the house tonight and find my lawyer tomorrow. Thoughts on leaving house?
Thoughts on leaving house?
BAD ADVICE!
Why do you have to leave?
That is one of the worst things that you can do,
definitely get legal advice before proceeding.
She's been a great counselor so far and she said she doesn't know 100% of Answers I told her I was weary about leaving and she said if I felt that was wrong I shouldn't leave
My research says this is the biggest legal mistake you can make.
Try searching on
"should i leave the house before the divorce"
Glad I asked; I have a firm understanding of why not to leave after reading the first article, especially with D2
So W said she filled out some of the paperwork for D but she hasn't officially filed. She said she was still willing to go to our counselor she said just cause she is filing doesn't mean it's over. So I said why file? And she said something has to change. I told her she can have what she wants but I'm going to keep living my life. I didn't beg or ask or plead for her to change her mind. My DB should be here soon and I'm ready to get started with it
She expected me to leave the house and I told her I wasn't leaving. She also pulled the "we haven't had any intimacy for 10 years" and "divorce will be better for D2 in the long run" and "I'm hoping we can tell our D2 the same thing when the time comes" I told her I was going to keep our D2s best interest in mind but I wasn't going to lie for my W or cover for her when my D2 comes asking questions when she gets older
So W said she filled out some of the paperwork for D but she hasn't officially filed. She said she was still willing to go to our counselor she said just cause she is filing doesn't mean it's over. So I said why file? And she said something has to change. I told her she can have what she wants but I'm going to keep living my life. I didn't beg or ask or plead for her to change her mind. My DB should be here soon and I'm ready to get started with it
But OM is still in the picture, right?
I don't "think" so. She emailed him 3 weeks ago and that was last I heard of it. She met with our counselor last week and said he wasn't in the picture anymore
I don't "think" so. She emailed him 3 weeks ago and that was last I heard of it. She met with our counselor last week and said he wasn't in the picture anymore
I think you need a vet here. Starsky is good with this type of thing RE transparency agreements etc.
She is transparent now, at least to my knowledge. I have access to all of her accounts. She is definitely WW but I would like to think OM is out of picture; I think she still has feelings for him, but I think their relationship is over...who knows though.
She said she was going through with filing for D, but she also admitted that doesn't mean its over. It's amazing that makes sense to her. We meet with our counselor tomorrow so it will be real interesting to see how that goes.
I hope you are right. But if you are able you should ask one of the vets about this. It's for your own benefit.
Anyone know how long filing for divorce takes? W said she met with lawyer and started the paperwork. I asked why she didn't file and W said the lawyer didn't have time to process everything.
I'm curious if she is using this as a threat/scare tactic or if she really plans on doing it. I am moving forward like she is going to really go through with filing for D
Filing can happen very quickly, maybe a few hours to a couple of days. It could take more than one afternoon depending on how much they wanted to discuss and get things straight. She could do it all in one day if needed, but taking time to make sure everything is where she wants it makes more sense.
With kids there is alot to go through. When my W was using an online program to do it she spent maybe 4-5 hours total to go through it step by step. We don't have much to split up either. With a lawyer advising that could go faster or slower.
Kembo,
You really need to STFU for real about asking W questions about filing or not filing for D. It DOES NOT matter what she does or does not do. You have a FULL and rich life waiting for you to grab it by the horns.
For real, you have to STOP bringing up the M or divorce to W.
Kembo,
You really need to STFU for real about asking W questions about filing or not filing for D. It DOES NOT matter what she does or does not do. You have a FULL and rich life waiting for you to grab it by the horns.
For real, you have to STOP bringing up the M or divorce to W.
Of course that is if you are still trying to save your marriage/relationship.
If you want to be divorced then just keep doing the same thing.
Thanks Wonka. I asked her yesterday because I just needed to know if she took that step. I also needed to know so I could make sure I spoke with a lawyer to cover my bases. I wasn't planning on asking any more questions about it.
I definitely want it to work out. I'm just kind of scrambling at this point. This forum has been great, but I really need the DR book for some guidance. I appreciate everyone's help
She said she was going through with filing for D, but she also admitted that doesn't mean its over. It's amazing that makes sense to her. We meet with our counselor tomorrow so it will be real interesting to see how that goes.
She believes she really has you wrapped around her little finger. She can play bounce the ball back & forth as long as she wants. IMO, you need to let it be known to her (probably during the counseling session)that you won't do it this way. IOW, tell her that if she files for D, you will take it to mean that she's not interested in being M to you....and you will be moving on with a new life. (This is what she should think about before making those type of decisions.)
In the meantime, stop the questions. Did you go see a lawyer after asking her about filing?
I am in the process of getting with a lawyer now. So if she files I shouldn't be willing to continue seeing a counselor with her?
This situation s*cks. I know I have to do things I don't want to do to try and make it work. I just want my wife back and I want to put this chapter behind us.
I don't think you need to stop counseling. But you shouldn't go with the idea that you can win your W back through your discussions there. You can read my recap of my session today with W - our focus is to have a safe place to discuss our Ds and things pertaining to the divorce and moving forward. Im NOT using it to talk about reconciling us.
Kem, the big hitters her here now. Listen to what they say. I've followed your sitch from the very beginning and now the work begins. Good luck my friend.
Heading home now, I'm going to enjoy the evening with my D2. We have a meeting scheduled with counselor tomorrow so I'm interested to see if she asks about that or brings it up. But im putting on my happy face and going to do what I can
Kembo - I know it feels ridiculous, but I strongly recommend you have some kind of plan for counseling tomorrow. If you just show up and talk with your heart, it can do more damage than good. Think about some topics that may come up and how you'll respond to them. Think about what topics you want to discuss and how to bring them up without pressure.
Well she just told me she filed (I didn't ask). I was polite and calm and I just told her she is free to do whatever she wants at this point because I am going to start a new life. She said we can make the D process as pain free as possible and try to come to a mutual decision on things or we can make it painful on everyone involved. I told her from this point on she is free to do what she thinks is best and I am starting my new life.
I want to look out for best interest of my D2 and I know it isn't over yet but if it keeps going down this path she is crazy if she thinks im not going to fight for rights to my D2. My emotions are obviously running high right now but I don't see why I should sacrifice half my life away from my D when I didn't do anything worthy of D
Kembo,
Have you said this script in response to W's statement that she wants a D:
You need to know that a D isn't what I want, but I won't stand in your way. You do what you want to do. Make no mistake, we will not be friends should you decide to pursue divorce. This is not what friends do to friends. I will be cordial when it comes to D2 and childcare logistics.
The next time W brings up D or D paperwork, you can pull out this script.
Sorry to hear this news, kembo.
Try to take some time to let things settle. Don't do anything tonight that you will regret for years. Emotions are high right now...let them come down before you do anything.
We didn't really talk much more last night. She said she was hoping we could make the D process as quick as possible and come to a mutual agreement on our assets and our daughter. I think she is wanting to make this as quick and "pain free" as possible because she doesn't want the truth to come out; especially with what she has done.
She said her heart has changed and it changed a couple of months ago (while she was having an A). No one knows about her A and she has really distanced herself from her friends and her family only knows that we are having issues; they know nothing of an A. I would never just tell everyone what is going on but I do think she needs to face the truth in what she has done. But I will STFU and just take care of the things I need to take care of. I'm just stating my opinion about that
My W is 29 and her A was with a 20 year old former student. She has hid that truth from everyone. She doesn't even have the courage to tell our counselor the truth about the A; she lied and told him it was a man that was only 6 years younger than her. I don't think she could be more wayward right now. Again, im not going to out my wife by any means; but I also don't want anything to happen that allows her to say we just "grew apart" and the D was a mutual decision. I want to be cordial, but I don't want to help her cover her lies and hide the truth. I hope that makes sense
Kembo,
It doesn't make sense. You are in counseling with the W and the elephant in the room hasn't been addressed at all?? Why do you feel that it is not your job to tell the counselor the real truth as it affects you too?
If I were you, I'd tell the counselor the truth. Yeah, W will get mad. But is it fair for you to continue biting your tongue at the M's expense?
Sorry, I might not have clarified. We went to counselor separately and I met with him after she did. Counselor told me she told him she had an affair and I asked if she said who it was with, he just said she told him it was with a man 6 years younger then her. I told him that wasn't the case, it was a 20 year old former student. and he is 9 years younger than her.
We have our first session scheduled today. She brought it up and said she was still willing to go. I'm not really sure what to say during the session. Right now I am just planning on letting her talk and using it as an avenue for safe communication.
I told him that wasn't the case, it was a 20 year old former student. and he is 9 years younger than her.
So even her lies are lies.
If her lips are moving she is lying.
I think your plan of listening is good.
Hi there,
Just wanted to stop by to express my sympathies for you and your D. I hope you get the time you need to make the changes you can.
I noticed something early in your thread (just re-read the whole thing):
"One of the things my wife has said is how she doesn't trust me and how I don't understand or respect her feelings. She thinks she has been pretending to be this person she isn't for so long and she blames me for this. She thinks she had to be this person to make me happy and I didn't care about that. I told her I didn't know she felt this way, I want her to be her, not be someone she thinks she is supposed to be."
That's something I recognize from my H. He hasn't had his needs met and feels that I should have known how to meet them without him saying. He has said what he thought I wanted to hear - and I remember he even said to me once that in a M, you should say what you think the other person wants to hear instead of telling them when you disagree or have another opinion. I was blown away... not my idea of a partnership. I've felt disconnected from him for years, because he seemed so closed off.
I wonder if people who try to please like this perhaps are more insecure about themselves, and more prone to hide their feelings from their partner and become unhappy to where they have an affair. I know that my H does not spend much time thinking about his own feelings or perceptions. He's very much an 'it is what it is'-person and buries himself in work and activities. But the feelings are there - they just build and build...
The MC talked yesterday to H about having a clearer voice - be honest with himself and not try to do things that makes him annoyed (he gets easily annoyed and angry).
None of us can be responsible for another person's choices, though. It's not a our job to ferret out what our partners really feel if they hide it from us. All we can do, is make sure we listen and create a safe space to open up in.
Oh, I'd also take it as a good sign that she's lying to the counselor. Means she is embarrassed by the truth still.
Her affair may have an impact on custody arrangements and the divorce. I hope you include all the information you have about what happened when you talk to your attorney.
Thanks Painter. I think my W has a lot of areas she needs to work on and I can't force the issue with that. She has always hid her feelings and a lot of that stems from her family of origin.
I completely agree it's a good sign she is lying to the counselor, she is absolutely still embarrassed. She has always avoided confrontation, always, and I looked at it as she has been avoiding the confrontation with me but now I almost look at it as if she is avoiding the confrontation with herself. I don't know though. Im trying to focus on detaching, 180's, and being positive and confident.
We meet the MC later this afternoon. I will let everyone know how it goes. Im not bringing anything up about the relationship or affair, but I hope the MC asks why she lied about the A and how old the OM is
Do I need to start a new thread since this one is getting close to 100?
Do I need to start a new thread since this one is getting close to 100?
You are allowed to go to 100 this post is #94, so yes soon you should make a new thread