Starting new tread......
First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2559138#Post2559138Lightening strike
Inside my chest to keep my up at night
Dream of way
To make you understand my pain
Clouds of sulfur in the air
Bombs are falling everywhere
It's heartbreak warfare
Once you want it to begin
No one ever wins
It's heartbreak warfare
If you want more love why don't you say so
If you want more love why don't you say so
Drop his name
Push the knife in and twist again
Watch my face
As I pretend to feel no pain, pain, pain
How come the only way how high you get me
Is to see how far I fall
God only knows how much Id love you if you let me
I don't care if we don't sleep all night
Let's just fix this thing now
I swear to God we are going to get it right
If you lay you weapon down
Red wind and ambien
Your taking $h!t again
It's heartbreak warfare
Glad to know it's all a game to you
Disappointment has a name
It heartbreak warfare
John Mayer
Heard this song this past weekend and it made me thing of my cuurent situation with H. Why couldn't he of just told me he needed more love? We obviously have both done a great deal to cause each other pain and no one wins. Thus is where we seem stuck is in heartbreak ware fair.
Anyway, I have decided to hold off on email for now. H has pulled back again. Off to bootcamp. Will post more later this am.
Moderators, can one of you please correct topic title to Heartbreak Warfare.
Thanks
Ahh BW05 the song is so apt for our sitch...
Last night my H and I looked at our respective work travels schedules and it made me sad. Yes, will it be a good opportunity for me to detach and GAL, but I am concerned about the lack of connection time with H. We basically will see each other very little over the next two months, so worries me that we will have little time to connect until August.
The good news is that I had good, light conversations last night and this morning with H. Bad is that I think figured out that I am still likely dealing with lies. H insists there is no reason to lie at this stage. If you recall, last Thursday night H never came home. I sent text on Friday as I started to get concerned about his wellbeing when there was not a peep from him. I made the mistake of laying into him about disrespect and no regard for me and my concerns and our M. Yeah, I know I shouldn't have, but it made me made.
H said he did not come home because he extended stay on local overnight work trip and that he informed me he might do that. I don't recall this, but still inconsiderate not to inform me that he did decide to do this. He was upset as he said text was sent to make him feel guilty. H is either not thinking lies through or I may be missing something, but work hotels are paid via our personal checking account. Only a charge came through for one night. I called and did confirm it was one night only. So there you have it. I don't understand where this person has come from that used to be my H. If you would have ever told me he would bold face lie to me, I would not have believe it. He is literally looking me in the eye and saying these things. Makes it hard to believe the more positive stuff, and I know I am not supposed to anyway. But also I obviously have to question status of A. In my heart I think I know the answer. Where else would he have been that he would feel need to lie. I assume he is cake eating since he at same time is saying positive things to me and still here.
I so want to call him on his $h!t, but I will just get called a snoop and make things worse. Is it really snooping when I am the one who handles finances and would easily see that hotel charge. No, but I guess calling would be.
Question. In my previous tread I talk about some photos on H phone. I know who this person is. Never meet her, but she is a work related colleague of H. She is M and my H has been working with on something else. There are numerous reasons that lead me to believe that she could be a OW. Also, H's reaction to my reaction to photos seemed to be over the topic and proactive. Also, later that night he made point to talk down about this person and then the next morning questioning me about my trust. Also said when would I have time to do this, I told you I have no reason to lie, do you think I would be so stupid. Yada, Yada, yada. There would be a number of very bad implications on H and this person if this is the case. I cannot imagine H would be so stupid, but I guess the fog would do that. I could be totally off base on my hunch. Does his reaction seem odd to any one else?
Zues, I realize this summary is exactly what you outlined was likely going on with my H. Cake Eating.
BW
When dealing with issues such as you are, its all to easy to focus on the OM/OW. The WAS will most surely lie .. usually very poorly as they are in La-La land and actually have worked up the alibi in their head, not like they can run this by anyone, not you, not OP, it seems to sound good and believable in their mind so they will continue to try to cover the tracks to spare you the pain and to hide the secret.
As hard as it is ... the energy you spend on the OP is wasted, its not advised you expose the A, confront the OP, as it only makes the WAS run further into the OP arms proving to them they have been right all along to have this person in their life. Its impossible to compete with that new lust drug that is flowing through them right now, thats why you hear people talk about GAL, PMA, 180's ... things you CAN control.
So his reaction being odd, maybe to the general public .. here... unfortunately not so much most of us have witnessed similar, or worse behavior.
Caliguy,
Yes, I agree with not focusing on OW. Just trying to confirm there is active A to know what I am up against. Active A will be much harder than if he would be in withdrawal stage.
Back to detaching, GAL, 180s, and LRT.
Just hard to not get sucked back in to cycle with positive words by H. Need to work on my self and reactions as when I feel I am doing LRT my H thinks I am grumpy or mad at him. He is being very sensitive when I pull back.
BW05,
Have you ever heard of gas lighting? If not, do an internet search on the subject. Do, I found his reaction odd? Not at all....this is what gas lighting is about as well as projecting on to you what he's done or his doing or even thinking of doing. It's very typical behavior for a person in an affair to do this. Trust your gut.
As for outing the affair, well...you could do this, but what is your main reason for doing so? To get them to break up and hopefully he'll suddenly wake up and run back to you? If that is a yes, then you need to rethink outing the affair. Yes, many times the affairs are outed, but what happens is that when you do this, it will drive him closer to the ow. In his mind, he needs to protect her from everything that you are saying. He needs to rescue her and keep her safe. He has to come off looking like the good guy and guess what...your actions become even more justification for why he's doing what he's doing.
Allow the affair to die a slow and natural death. The less you talk to him about her, the better off you are. He's irrational right now because he's higher than a kite just knowing she's there waiting for him. Don't give him or her the satisfaction of knowing that they are taking up space in your head.
She's truly nothing more than a crutch while he's figuring himself out. She's nothing special and the only thing she's got going for her right now is that she is "new". Once the newness wears off, she will begin to tarnish and all of those things he loves about her right now, will eventually turn him against her, i.e., as he slowly begins to return to earth.
Keep the focus on you and your mantra is "you are the prize". Repeat that each and every day because truly you are the prize.
Thanks, Job. I truly am the prize and my H would be a fool to let me go.
How do we enable the HTML on our tread??
How do we enable the HTML on our tread??
Use reply mode?
What HTML do you want?
I would say to trust your gut feeling. H lied extensively to me about his whereabouts and actions last fall, when he went to visit OW three times. I was extremely suspicious and asked him straight out all three times, but he denied and lied about where he went, really elaborate lies. He even called me when he was driving home from one visit with OW (supposedly had spent time with a buddy) and shared what a wonderful vacation he had had (this was Thanksgiving, I was crushed that he refused to talk to me on the holiday) and I could hear in his voice how happy he was. That was and still is very, very hard.
Regardless, I knew. Every time. I just accepted his lies because they he was so insistent and I didn't know he was capable of lying to me like that.
Right now, he says he would not have done this if he could do it over, he is ashamed over it and feel bad. So there is hope that this phase can pass. I hope he is telling me the truth now.
Hey BW
Just checking to see how things are going with you?
There has not been much to post as far as R goes as it has been a quiet week with H working later are going to gym.
However, some good GALing this week. Organized a happy hour with fellow bootcampers on Wednesday and last night went out with work colleagues. Lost another 5 lbs to boot!
This morning I was greated very cheerfully by H. I was going to head out to walk the dog and he invited himself along. I then said I was running to Costco and he decided he wanted to go to. H has not run an errand with me in weeks. Not sure what is up, but we had a nice time together for half the day. Still no communication H via text or other during the work week to check in, but maybe still too soon.
Contemplating letting go conversation with H this weekend per suggestion of someone else. Has anyone else tried this with their wayward spouse? Here is a sample:
H, I have been doing some thinking and I realize that I have been selfish in trying to convince you to stay in a marriage where you are unhappy. I know now that I cannot continue to try and control the outcome of this and I need to let you go and allow you to make your own choices. Really all I want is for you to be happy.
In addition, would continue LRT, GAL, etc.
Any thoughts on saying this to my H?
I would suggest that you wait on that conversation. The less you say, the better. You'll have ample time to say something later on. Always remember, actions speak louder than words.
For now, continue to focus on you and your GAL activities.
H just texted that he is out with work friends. Thinking about crashing at one couples place since they are hour a way. He wanted to see if it was ok, did not want me to think something inappropriate was going on, and so I would not worry. He said he could come home if I wanted. My response:
You are free to make your own choices. Thanks for letting me know so I don't worry.
Thoughts on my response?
Your response was okay. If it had been me, I would have just said "Thanks for letting me know".
When responding to him, keep things as simple as possible.
So, what are your plans for today?
Thanks, Job.
Just plan on going about my day, go for a walk, GAL, etc. I plan to be friendly toward H like nothing happened and not even bring it up. If he engages, I will engage with him back.
Just curious for thoughts on bold face lying by the WAS. Is the lying to avoid hurting the BS? To protect the A? Both? Does it never cross the WAS mind that by lying they are making things worse on so many levels? Is the fog so strong they are never really even contemplating the ramifications?
For those reconciling or piecing, did your WAS just come clean on own or did you still have to pull this out of them?
I think the lying is their guilt, they are trying to escape from their emotional pain too..
Lying is their way of protecting you, as well as the affair. It's to cover up the shame and guilt of what they are doing or have done. They don't care about the consequences, just as long as they are happy and are getting the ego kibbles that they desire.
If their lips move, they are lying about a lot of things. They are like children and when children do something that the parents may not like, they tend to cover it up or lie about it.
In time, if you listen closely, your h will babble because he will have loose lips. The more you try to pry information out of him, the more he's going to clam up at this time. The best thing to do is sit quietly and allow the answers to fall into your lap. Trust me, at some point, when he feels comfortable enough to start talking about what he's doing, he will tell you things in a roundabout way...but you have to listen and not question.
Thanks, Job. Once he starts sharing info about what he is doing, do you not just sit and not question infinitely? Why do they start sharing, because they decide they want it out in the open? So confusing!
The best way to get your questions answers is to sit and just listen. When he's completely done w/the ow and has settled back down, he will open up more than he is doing so right now. You'll have your opportunity to ask questions...but that's a long way off.
They start running off at the mouth because they can't contain themselves any longer. They like to brag, talk about all that they are doing and show people, especially you, just how happy they are w/their brand new lives. Guess what...if they were so darn happy, they wouldn't need to brag out stuff.
BTW, it's not a matter of wanting it out in the open, but they tend to forget themselves and they drop hints throughout their conversations w/you. That's why it is important to listen closely and then sift through the garbage coming out of their mouths. You will learn more by listening then questioning at this time.
It's confusing, but you'll get the hang of this stuff. It takes time to hone your listening skills and, of course, learning to be patient. You'll need to dig deeper for more patience and just be still right now. Trust me, the answers will come when you least expect them to. It works every time. You can't rush this process or you'll push him even further away. Allow the affair to die a slow, natural death and let those two see each other's warts and all w/o any help from you. You don't want to give him any more justification for being her "knight to the rescue".
Keep the focus on you. BTW, did you read the material that Cadet provided to you a while back? If so, go back and re-read it. There is a lot of valuable info there.
Yes, I did read the links, but need to reread.
I assume journaling things you pick up is a good idea. Time and patience!
Having a down day after a fairly good weekend. I think it might be partially due to the weather since it is a drizzly and dreary day. Also, it is hard because the weekends are when H and I have most interaction and conversation. It is like I get my fix and then go through withdrawals. Pathetic, but I miss our companionship. This weekend I had more of that then in a long time. Would be nice to get a text or two through out the work week to just say hello to show he is thinking about me. Clearly he is not. I know, I am being greedy.
Also, I realize that I am obsessing over A. Have so many questions that I cannot ask and that have to be put on back burner. I need to just stop since I have no control over it anyway. Hopefully, if it is still going on, it will die a fast death. I do feel my H is making attempt to rest abolish friendship, but I do question his motives.. I have to me positive about this since I know many on here have no contact.
I do have question about my H's repeated comments and concerns about my level of trust in him since finding out their was A. I think he has mentioned some facet of this 4-5 times. Any thoughts on why he is very focused on this, especially if he has been so adamant our marriage is horrible and not sure he wants to stay? Is this most likely about concerns for hiding an on going A? Or is there a possibility he actual does have concerns I might not get over the A and trust him again?
Anyway, now more importantly about ME...
Anyway, tonight I am going to focus on positive affirmations and continue reading on anger mgmt. Gal plans for week...dinner with friend on Wednesday, bootcamp each morning, and walk with dog each evening.
I will be gone Mon-Thurs with major work conference. Looking forward to distraction. Then off to Dublin, Ireland next Friday for work. Yeah!
Weekends are always worse... No routine to keep you going.
Here's what worked for me: I asked H very calmly about the affair. I'm thinking this was after we had decided to reconcile, though. Then I just listened and asked short follow-up questions. I didn't press, and there were several rounds of this. I tried to not wear him out (keep it going too long). I thanked him every time for ansewring my questions and being honest with me. I never got worked up or attacked him over his answers (like 'How could you??' or similar). I told him we could talk about anything as long as he was open and honest. He didn't understand why I wanted to know, he didn't (when his ex cheated), but I just said 'I guess we're different'.
I did say early on that if he was truly happier with OW, I wouldn't want to keep him from being happy. That seemed to make an impression on him.
I'm not clear on your H's affair - has he said it's over? He is probably concerned about your opinion of him, even if he's involved with someone else. You do matter to him, even if his priorities are mixed up and his brain has short-circuited. He could also be testing to see if he thinks there's hope for the two of you. H was very concerned that I would never trust him again so there was no reason to try to save the marriage. I told him honestly that I didn't know what would happen or how long it would take, and that it would depend a lot on his behavior forward if I could trust him again.
Write everything in your journal - thoughts and questions, so you can remember later. I often write at bedtime so I can put the thoughts away and get some sleep.
Google 'not just friends' - I found some resources that helped me tremendously through the initial phase.
"I do have question about my H's repeated comments and concerns about my level of trust in him since finding out their was A. I think he has mentioned some facet of this 4-5 times. Any thoughts on why he is very focused on this, especially if he has been so adamant our marriage is horrible and not sure he wants to stay? Is this most likely about concerns for hiding an on going A? Or is there a possibility he actual does have concerns I might not get over the A and trust him again?"
We don't know and if we did he'd feel differently by the time we responded. He might be testing the road home, but whether he feels it is paved could work either way (he has to feel he can return, but has to feel he could lose you, etc, etc, etc...). So let him wonder what's going on in his head. You don't need to.
"Anyway, now more importantly about ME..."
This cheered me up. Good job recognizing what's important. You're learning. And your GAL activities are great!
"Having a down day after a fairly good weekend."
Hang in and keep posting. It would only be pathetic if you were so casual about M that you became raging angry and ejected him from your life turning him into a monster. Loving someone deeply and appreciating how valuable that is? NOT pathetic. But do feel better soon!
Thanks for sharing, Painter. Yes, we have had couple of very calm conversations about affair and I did ask some questions. I confronted him a few weeks ago after finding evidence. He admitted to it straight away saying our marriage was as bad as it could get, so no reason to lie. He said it started in October when he was unemployed and being supported by me. He said I found evidence because affair was no longer going on. It makes no sense whatsoever and said as much to him. I also question to myself that it started in October. I thought/think that the A started after our fight in March--as in mid-April. I think he wants me to think that this is something in the past and well over. I just keep thinking back to October and just don't see that going on, but I could be blind. Is it feasible that he would make up start of A date in past to throw me off!? There is just something off about timing.
I would say I am about 99% certain that it is still going on, though H tells me to my face that it is not. So I have to go with that until I have further evidence that does not require snooping. Things add up to it though...late nights out, working late, will not tell me who he had A with, dieting, working out, the mysterious extended business trip ( I confirmed with hotel after charge for only one night came through that he did check out as originally planned), getting defensive about photos of female on phone, being super secretive, etc. I think I may have figured out who it is too, but not 100%. Everyone is advising not to confront as it won't stop him and will just push him towards OW.
I have told him that I do want to try and get past this and want try and forgive him, but it will take time to trust him and that there is a lot of work to happen before then. I put it into same context as him being hesitant to trust me and my changes. He seem to understand.
Not going to lie, Zues. I have recently had fleeting thoughts of giving up on M, but I quickly bounce out of it. Mostly, because I don't like this current version of H, but realize he us not himself right now. Just having hard time with the lies.
Need to just focus primarily on me this week.
H just came home, walked into my bedroom, sat on bed and just vented about work and how stressed he is. Ended up chatting for hour. Mostly H talking and me sympathizing. Always did this throughout his entire schooling. Maybe he will start to remember that support and that our M wasn't always so bad.
Not going to lie, Zues. I have recently had fleeting thoughts of giving up on M, but I quickly bounce out of it. Mostly, because I don't like this current version of H, but realize he us not himself right now. Just having hard time with the lies.
Need to just focus primarily on me this week.
Just remember, if you gave up and left it would end the 'limbo'...but you'd have to go through a HUGE grieving process. You are grieving now anyway...you might still be fully detached and ok again in the same time frame whether you give up or not. Point is, there is no rule that says you'll go through more pain by DBing, or that you'll be done suffering quicker if you give up. In fact, I think we on DB forums get healthier, stronger, and faster than those who cut and run.
You're not sticking it out for him...you're doing it for you. So you can be the person you want to be. That's even more important than whether he can pull his $hit together.
Question about engaging with H. Last night when H came into room to vent about how stressed he is with work, he clearly was coming to me for emotional support. As I said, I listened, sympathized and engaged in conversation. It seemed like the natural thing to do. I acted as friend. I think this is a good thing to help redevelop emotional connection. However, if H is likely still cake-eating this is probably not a good thing, right? It is allowing him to get some needs met by me, so I am allowing to be part of the cycle. He seems to be coming to me more and more in this way and want to make sure I am not exasperating cake eating.
However, if I do not respond he will not come to me to engage and thinks I am mad and we do not have moment of connection. How should I handle these attempts by H to engage if there is active A? This morning I tried to be pleasant, but kept to myself and he asked if I was grumpy. I said no not at all. He seemed thrown off. I am having hard time with being happy, cheerful and engaged with acting as if I am moving on.
Can someone give me advise please.
It sounds to me like you are asking whether it matters what you say or do.
IMHO it does not matter, except with YOUR detachment.
If you can remain detached with no expectations then
nothing you say or do is going to make his crisis go any faster.
He will stop being depresses when he CHOOSES to.
Likely a long time from now.
However if what you are doing continues to keep you attached to him then you are prolonging the PAIN and I suggest you 180 that.
I don't know if you have read the Detachment thread over on the MLC Forum, but I'm putting the link here. I think you would gain more knowledge on how to proceed with conversations and actions if you read the thread.
Here's the link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289
Yes, I have read it about 20 times and I still struggle with the concept of detachment. I think this is because I am focusing on the concept of physical detachment. So, as long as I keep myself emotionally detached and have no expectations, then my interactions and conversations with H are ok? I guess I am a little slow in this regard!
So, as long as I keep myself emotionally detached and have no expectations, then my interactions and conversations with H are ok?
Yes - Question is whether you can do that, most people struggle with it IMHO.
well, yes, the more my H engages with me, the easier it is to start feeling attached again. I do need to work on that. I need to focus on staying detached regardless of what he says and does, even the positive.
Woot woot! Impromptu GAL. Came home from walking dog. H was sitting at kitchen table on work laptop just back from work. I was friendly but slightly detached. I chatted for 5 mins, went upstairs and changed, came back downstairs and said I was going out. H tried to hide it, but could tell he was ruffled. Went to grab dinner and now at Starbucks. Feel empowered.
Awesome job BW! You are quickly mastering level 1!
Level 2 is next...GALing without giving a rats behind about whether he is ruffled. This one takes time...but you're doing AMAZING!!!
Very well done. As for him appearing to be ruffled, that's his problem.
Keep up the good work!
Job and Zues, thanks for the positive reinforcement. Much needed!
Definitely getting the cold shoulder and a couple of stink eyes this morning. H just took off for an overnight work trip. Fun.
BW -
I saw you had posted on another thread about gratitude. 25years posted on my thread to watch a TED talk about the power of positive thinking. It was given by Shawn Achor. I highly recommend it as it really described my way of thinking perfectly and made me realize what I want to change about myself.
For whatever reason, yesterday was a really hard day emotionally and H was not even around. When others of you first truly started to detach and let go, did you find yourself more emotional? Was so frustrated, sad, and angry that I threw a picture frame/photo of H and I across the room. I think it was also from holding in what I really want to say sometimes and I just needed a release. Assume even with detaching it is realistic that you will still have days like this. Pit in stomach is back. I have not been that upset since BD. Luckily, H was not here.
I still doing GAL, LRT, etc.
You are going to have good days and then some bad days. That's why it's called the rollercoaster ride when dealing w/people who are suffering from a crisis, etc.
If you have that much pent up frustration, then find something physical to do, i.e., run, exercise, beat a pillow until the stuffing come out, take a ride somewhere and then scream at the top of your lungs, etc. Once you've done this, you should feel much better. Bottling up your frustration will only create health issues, but you'll blow your cork when you least expect it over something silly, etc.
Feel the pain, allow it to wash over you and then release it. As time moves along, you will slowly discover that you won't have as many ups and downs as you are having now. Detaching will help you w/this as you walk the path.
Yes, certainly a rollercoaster ride this week. Started out beginning of week great with detaching, but overcome by serious case of blues late this week. Did not help that I missed a couple of workouts and no IC last Saturday.
Met with IC today and bootcamp Thursday and Friday lifted spirits a little. Just a little taken a back by serious levels of sadness and loneliness this week. I do think that I am getting too much hope up after my H and I have good days.
Like last night for example, I probably did bad job of DBing, but when H unexpectantly came home on a Friday at 6pm, I was pleasantly surprised. I was reading, but was friendly and cheerful when he came in. He was friendly, but a little distant. After a few minutes, I got up and said I was going to pick up take out and did he want anything. He ended up deciding to come with me. Brought food back and ate together. I moved to sofa and he pulled up chair and we ended up having a 3 1/2 hour friendly conversation (no R talk). I think H was even surprised by how long we had been sitting there. It turned into a pretty great evening that I was not anticipating. He continually makes references to future in house that imply us still being there in the fall - i.e. maintainence projects and that when things slow down at work he can be around more. No references of being apart, D or other. This morning he was back to being him friendly self that I saw last weekend.
So, now I seemed to have successfully changed two behaviors on a consistent basis and I think H is noticing:
1. 100% engagement. I have been sure to repeat things he has shared weeks earlier to emphasize I am present and listening.
2. Conversation. We have been having quite a few 1, 2, 3 hour chats with ease. Clearly, there is not an issue with my personality and conversation skills. This was one of the issues my H brought up on BD day.
While this is all well and good, I do feel it is causing me to want and expect more than H is willing to give right now. While he generally has been one to initiate, it is all very controlled and on his time. Making it hard to stay detached as Cadet indicated might be the case. When he talks about new work colleagues, I wonder if I will ever gave opp to meet them. He also is making conscious choice to choose doing things more with them than me. Which us ok since I used the time for IC and mani/pedi today. I just need to reign in expectations and stay somewhat detached.
Question....Do I need to clarify with H that I am not going to approach him about R/M discussion and that I expect he will come to me when he wants to talk? Or do I not say anything and assume if he wants to discuss he will bring it up with me on his own? How did it work the vets with your WAS?
Hi BW - definitely say nothing!! Just stop initiating such convos and be busy/absorbed with your own stuff. And be very patient.....a R/M convo may take a while coming...
Good luck!
Thanks, Toots. I have not initiated any convos in over 4 weeks. Staying busy on me unless H engages me. Was just curious as I could just see my H starting act like nothing happened.
Spent almost entire day with H. Ask me if I wanted to walk dog together, then if I wanted to go store with him. Hung out in same room together, made him real laugh a couple of times together, ate dinner together, etc. Could have been any normal day before BD accept no affection. Trying to keep calm and have no expectations. Not sure what to think and don't want to get hopes up. But overall one of the best days in a long time.
Almost let a very good day get off track by getting slightly emotional (watery eyes) toward end of tonight. H asked about three times why I was getting emotional and I just said I did not want to chat about it yet. I tried to hide it best I could and went upstairs for a bit. Until he starts to open up first, I will not go there. I felt I did a pretty good job of not letting it get out of control. I could tell he did have a really good time as well. The happiest and most relaxed H has been with me since BD.
Slow and steady, BW. It's hard to not get emotional after good times, but stick to it. Keep making your interactions positive. Wishing you strength.
Thanks, Matt. Feels hard to navigate right now. I am still doing LRT and DB, but trying to let my guard down a little. I will keep slow and steady in mind. Left this for business trip this week. Will not text or call H all week. I will let him make any contact. The good news is this conference will be good GAL and will be super busy, so I plan to have nice reprieve from this whole thing this week.
Question...this am H dropped me off at airport. Asked me again about why I was emotional. I just ignored the comment, said thanks, and went into airport. I later did sent message that basically said I want to share thoughts and feelings, but feeling too vulnerable because this type of convo requires mutual openness from. Thanked him for ride and said have good week. He sent reply that said have good week. Sorry.
Was this bad move? Maybe I should not have sent anything, but he kept asking. This is so hard!
Was this bad move? Maybe I should not have sent anything, but he kept asking. This is so hard!
Hello BW,
Yes, this is so hard, but your M is worth it. Please take it one day at a time and keep a PMA, it seems to help me.
I'm not one of the vets, but you probably shouldn't have mentioned your feelings, especially the part where you wrote "feeling too vulnerable because..." You want to be more mysterious that than. Believe me (please!) I have messed up so many times with talks ot texts, etc but you know what they say about hindsight. It's one minor bump in the road for you and this will pass.
Vets, any others have anything to add? BW sure could use our help now.
*Hugs*
Bob
Thanks, Bob. I see you posting on so many treads. You are doing an amazing job of giving so many on here support.
I realize that I really need to find a different outlet for my feelings and should have just ended the night earlier when I started to get emotional. That way it would not have even come up. Luckily, I think overall the positives of our interactions outweigh this minor blip. It's not like I was an emotional wreck or started balling in front of H. You live, you learn.
Luckily, I have a week of distance to from H. Having a great time do far at conference that there has been little time to focus on all of this. It is good for PMA as I am reminded how successful I have been with career.
Yes! Day two and very little thought of H and NC from my end. Not a peep from H either, but that was expected.
Being away this week for work, I have come to the realization that my H and I have not spent enough time apart through this whole thing. How the heck is he going to miss me when we are hanging out so much?! I will say this has been mutually decided and not just happening because of me. I think there is a bit of codependency on both sides.
While I have pretty much stuck to the LRT and GAL, I have too easily been drawn back in by H, but only of course on his terms. He is controlling the entire flow of everything right now and I need to cut him off and take back that power from him. I think the part I was having an issue with was when I pulled back it agitated H. The rational response or reaction on my part was that this was bad and that I should avoid upsetting H. But it is his own doing if he is agitated and is not my issue.i am jumping too much at the privilege of being given opportunity to hang out with H. Also, have no desire to be out late multiple times a week, so more often I am home before H. So he does not get to see GAL
Because the response feels unnatural, it is easy to think I am doing something bad. I think I need to decline some of his requests.
Is this accurate vets? Is it a typically ok if H is upset/angry in this Situation? Any tips for creating more mystery when you are not into being out late and home before H?
I'm not a vet by any means, but it only makes sense that he would get angry. He wants it all and by you stopping the pursuit, it's not following what he wants. I think that you need to continue to stay strong and do things for you. You can't control his reactions, so it isn't your fault that he chooses to get upset.
I think your head is in the right place. He needs to miss you to really see what he's losing.
In the distant/pursuit game, they will become anger, throw temper tantrums and even try being overly nice to you. Why? To get you to take the bait and return to pursuing. The less you pursue, the better and yes, their reactions can and will be unpredictable...just don't react to their behavior.
BTW, you are on the right track because he surely can't miss you if you are available all of the time. Slowly decline some of the invites and live your life to the fullest. Trust me, he's going to do something to get your attention and attempt to get you back into the game.
Stay the course. You've got the right idea about being less available.
Thanks, Matt and Job. I need to learn that temper tantrums and anger from H is probably a good thing. If he didn't care there would be no need to react.
Last day at conference. I have made to NO attempts to contact H. After such a good day on Sunday, it is disappointing that H has not even bothered to check in on me to see how trip is going. Guess that means he is still not thinking about me. I know I should not let this bother me, but it still hurts that he has overnight been able to act as if 14 years never existed. It is slowly getting easier.
BW - just because he isn't contacting you doesn't mean he isn't thinking about you. Don't try to read his mind because you just plain can't.
Glad you're enjoying the conference!
I wouldn't be too concerned that you've not heard from him. They do that when they are in crisis or doing other things. Just because you do not hear from him, it doesn't mean that he hasn't thought about you. Do not "assume" anything because this will lead to stinking thinking. If he needs something, trust me, you will hear from him. Continue as you have been.
Enjoy the rest of your conference.
Yes, you are both right. I am making assumptions. It is so true, because I am obviously still thinking and caring greatly about H, but I am not contacting him for my own reasons. So this certainly could be true for H.
Looking forward to being home tomorrow as I am exhausted. Killed it at this conference with new business, so going home with increase in self-esteem. Oh, and did I mention that a couple of times I caught a few glances down at my hand to see if there was a ring. Would never act on it, but still made me feel good.
Sitting at airport, I realize I am in a good place going back home today. Feel like I have new outlook and calmness about my situation. I don't feel as anxious as I have been over past few weeks. What will be will be. I can only control me. Ready to do some strong focusing on me over the next few weeks.
I already know H will not be home tonight. Said he is going out with coworkers tonight and crashing at one of their houses (work is hour home). None are single women and I do trust he is telling truth. He was very specific about options without me asking.
It is kind of funny how he has talked about this evening before I left for trip. Drink fest, contemplating bringing some sort of alcohol to drink prior to going out, etc. H is soon to be 42, but acting like he is in early 20s. Think he is trying to relive the real college years he never had. He was in college between 30-40's and married. Since he has been unhappy in marriage, I am sure this is his way of getting back what I took away from him--at least in his mind. Just to point out though, he would have never earned degrees without me.
Happy for him to get this sort of stuff out of his system if it helps him realize that he is being a fool if he gives me up. Looking forward to having house to myself for first night back anyway. So tired!!
Not the best night. Basically came home to confirm my H is having affair and OW was in our home while I was away. He was not home when I figured this all out, so I sent him text that basically said that I know, that I am trying to figure out what I am going to do, that I will hear him out, but if he denies it he will need to leave house. I said that we can't have M or friendship without transparency and lies.
Not sure if that is what DB calls for, but I feel damn good about the text. I am very calm and collected, probably because I really already knew. I am actually pretty sure this is the second trip that OW has been in house.
Have not received response nor has he come home.
Not the best night. Basically came home to confirm my H is having affair and OW was in our home while I was away. He was not home when I figured this all out, so I sent him text that basically said that I know, that I am trying to figure out what I am going to do, that I will hear him out, but if he denies it he will need to leave house. I said that we can't have M or friendship without transparency and lies.
Not sure if that is what DB calls for, but I feel damn good about the text. I am very calm and collected, probably because I really already knew. I am actually pretty sure this is the second trip that OW has been in house.
Have not received response nor has he come home.
I'll let someone with more experience give advice. Just wanted to say that that [censored] and I'm sorry you're going through this.
Thanks for your support, Matt.
Hello BW,
I am so sorry to hear this. I second what Matt wrote.
I found this verse today, I hope it helps you feel at least a little better:
“But the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength” (2 Timothy 4:17).
{{{{BW}}}}
Your friend always -
Bob
How are you doing? Did he return home or go completely AWOL last night? If and when you have your talk w/your h, stay calm, cool and collected. You will be able to judge his body language far better if you remain calm and even toned. The more emotional you get, the more he'll act stupid and spew.
I would definitely put some boundaries in place if you opt to allow your h to remain living under the same roof w/you. What you told him about transparency is very true. I honestly don't think he's ready to work on himself or the marriage at this point.
You will need to make some decisions as to what you want in the way of a relationship w/him for the time being. I'm very sorry that he's acting out. Nothing is worse than coming home and finding out that the op has been in your home.
Please take care of yourself.
He did not come home, but that was always going to happen as he was going out drinking with co-workers. He would have received text well before going out.
I received text reply that he was not sure what my evidence was, but he would be glad to discuss today. That came 5hrs after I sent text. I plan on being cool and calm, which I truly am right now. If he starts to lie, I plan on just getting up and removing myself from conversation.
You would think receiving a text like that he would have come home straight away if he was in place to work on M. To me this action of avoiding only confirms A.
Any other tips for boundaries?
Bob, I see you on here everywhere being so supportive. You are amazing!
Bob, I see you on here everywhere being so supportive. You are amazing!
Hello BW,
Ah, I'm not
everywhere, but thank you for the kind compliment. I'll take it!
As for your question about boundary setting, I want to think about it.
Hang in there, you are going to make it.
*Hugs*
Bob
Hi BW - I'm so sorry to hear that. As you say, it doesn't sound as though your H is in a place where he has your or the M's best interests at heart. Given that, I would focus on protection and self preservation. In terms of boundaries, what are the non-negotiables for you? If him having OP in the house is one, let him know that if this happens again, he will find his things packed up in the garage and he can find himself somewhere else to live. Or you may want to tell him to find himself somewhere else to live right now!
Without looking back, I'm not sure of all your circs, but I would certainly not consider ML just now, and if you are still sharing a bed, you may want to tell him you prefer to sleep alone just now. Have you read the boundaries thread at all? It is never about control of others, only about protecting you. And only allowing things within your own 'inner circle' if you are comfortable with them and they don't threaten your emotional safety or wellbeing.
Good luck with the convo and keep posting. We are all here to help (((BW)))
Oh, no...
That is awful. Disrespectful and ... Just incredibly disrespectful. And hurtful.
Your boundaries are yours. Everything you do is your choice. I know there are many who feel I should have kicked H out after I found out about the A - they had different boundaries. I know it took H by complete surprise that I very quickly said I wanted to work on our M.
Could it be that H wants you to take the responsibility for separating? That he's trying to get a reaction out of you? I have told H a few times when it comes up (he'll exclaim "this is it, this is why we should split") that he is free to leave, find another place to live, at any time. Door is right there. But he can't bait me into telling him it's over.
I guess that if H had taken up with OW again, in or outside our home, I would have told him *he* made the choice to leave, with his actions.
Hi Painter,
"Could it be that H wants you to take responsibility for separating? That he is trying to get reaction out of you?"
Not sure what you mean. Like an exit affair? Can you clarify?
I have done that too. I have told H multiple times he is free to go, but he says he is not sure. Right now I refuse to make that decision. He will be the one to end our M, not me. I am not there yet.
BTW, H has still not come home, so we have not had conversation yet. Seems to be avoiding confrontation/dealing with issue. Right on par for H. Only showing guilt more. Who knows if he will come home tonight. Would like to get this over with since the longer the wait drags on, the more nervous I am getting. Was very calm this AM. Feel sick to my stomach liking about it all.
BW,
Honey, you need a reality check here.
The reason why you haven't heard from H is that he's probably discussing with the OW ways to take the A further underground and come up with a script together. They're in a panic mode right now and in a deep strategy session at this time.
If and when H does come home, you really need to be VERY calm when stating your boundary for he will push your buttons and try to gaslight you.
Put a hand up and say, "Stop. We both know you're lying. You crossed the line by bringing OW in OUR house. That was an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. I am not willing to live in an open marriage. We have some decisions to make here."
I meant, as in trying to get you to call it quits, tell him to get out, so he can say that you was the one who wanted to split.
Painter, yes, anything is a possibility at this stage. I will not be giving him that if that is what he is seeking. I refuse to give up!
Wonka,
Yes, you are probably right. He could have avoided that by keeping OW out of our home. He must be so in crisis that he is starting to make mistakes. Yes, I am very calm. I will put on award winning performance if I need to. I am not going to tell him how I know. If he starts to lie or deny, I plan to just stop conversation altogether and say that I refuse to continue to be manipulated by him.
BW
He could just be very, very selfish, and not thinking about how it impacts you. Has he ever been cheated on?
Yes, he is being very selfish. Yes, the irony of all of this is that he was previously engaged prior to me and the engagement ended because she was cheating on him. I now realize that H likely never dealt with the pain of his past. So the thought that he felt he was making me happy in M likely made him fear abandonment again. He is acting out in all sorts of ways and definitely in crisis.
I guess this is the "it will get worse before it gets better stage"?! Oy!
My H was cheated on at least twice before. He said he moved on very quickly and didn't dwell on it or ask for any details. He's 'good' at stuffing emotions.
I hope you have a calm conversation with him... Maybe remove yourself for a while if you feel overwhelmed or need to think about something...
There's nothing anyone can say to make this better.
Just hold on to boundaries while leaving the door open for him to make changes? Listening and staying calm, making my own changes and working on myself. That's what I've tried to do so far. Slip & fall, get back up on my feet again.
Ok, well that conversation couldn't have gone worse. All of my intentions went out the door the minute my H got home last night. H had really bad attitude from the second he came upstairs to find me to discuss my text and it threw me off mission. I am sure that was his intent and it worked. He was condescending and rude to me, which I pointed out to him. I asked why we could not have civil conversation. I allowed myself to get sucked into gaslighting and manipulation. At least now I recognize it and did not take it on.
I should have known it was wrong step to send text about A. I had doubts, but sent it anyway. H is adamant that there is no A going on, that I should have asked him if I had concerns, and that he has no reason to lie, when will I start trusting him, etc. He also said that he knew even before I was going on trip that I was going to question whether or not he brought someone home. Said he almost mentioned it to me before I left. Sure enough, that is what I did. I did not even know how to respond.
H said he was trying to work on friendship prior to text to see if we could start from there. WHAT?! But because of my text it has made him realize that things are probably too far gone to make M work. Thinks I am being too irrational and up and down. This turned into a convo about R again, which I had told myself I would not do. There was some good info to come out of this portion of our discussion-- things I can work on to make me better spouse. Also, H is upset that I admitted to snooping when I got home from trip.
Discussed him possibly moving out in August as next step. There is too much traveling for him over next couple of months to make moving out now realistic. Wants to wait and see after travel.
That was last night. Today he is barely speaking to me, avoiding me, and giving me guilt trip. The good news is that I am detached enough that I am not feeling overly emotional about this and know this is likely to divert attention from A. He is going to do what he is going to do and my text was trying to control him and the situation. Lesson learned.
I feel I took a major step backwards. Any advice on how to get back on track other than GAL, LRT, etc? Do I just ignore his temper tantrum?
Ignore his temper tantrum. They all say that there isn't an affair going on and that they are "just friends". Notice how his defenses were already up and in place when it arrived home...he knew that you were going to have that discussion w/him and he wanted to knock you off base, which he did.
Oh, yeah, you must tipped the apple cart and made him decide the marriage was too far gone. Hello??? In his mind, it's been gone for quite some time and he's using the confrontation as the justification/excuse to say the things he is and for moving out. Let him go. He needs to grow up and face the big old world and see it's not all that it's cracked up to be on the other side of the fence.
Now, it's time to get up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward. You will need to watch your finances and keep the focus on you.
Yes, that is his defense for A weeks ago. Our marriage was only in paper in his mind. He said no one would ever blame him for having A. I wanted to say like no one would blame me for snooping right now, but I bit my tongue.
Yesterday, he said I know you think that I should have come to you first to tell you how bad it was for me before resorting to A. He started to say that I would not of done anything, but I stopped him and outlined exactly what I would have done and told him he should not assume.
I have finally realized that I truly need to let my H go in order to get him back. It is the only way for him to sort himself out. I have still been holding on too tight. I guess because I have been worried by what he might find. But in his current state he is not suitable for marriage. More importantly, it is keeping me from fully working on myself. I am not using my gift of time wisely.
Not much to report. H is still barely speaking to me and staying out super late. He now seems to be back to full-on acting out like a teenager. I am sure that this is in response to me reminding him on Saturday that we are still married. I probably should not have done that because in his mind we are only in paper. Saturday he mentioned "that I don't own him". I have never told my H he could not do something and recently even told him he is free to make his own choices. I don't think he likes the consequences part though. This was in response to previously asking him to let me know if he was not coming home so I did not worry and could sleep and A accusations. Yes, I can see how in his current stage he would believe it is controlling. So I will not question that anymore. He is no longer mine to worry about. To prove point he came home at 1am last night. This morning, I did not ask anything about his day or evening. I was pleasant, but kept conversation short. He told me he changed work trip to leaving today instead of tomorrow. I told him to have a good trip and walked away.
I think this trip works in my advantage to do a better job of acting as if I have had a change of heart and decided to move on with or with out him. I leave for Dublin on Friday, so more time away would be good.
We have a wedding/weekend away we are both set to go on June 19. His side of the family. Any thoughts on whether I should pull out and stay home? The only loss is a plane ticket and I am fine if it is better for showing him life without me. I am leaning towards staying home. Thoughts? What should I say when I tell him?
Yep, he's rebelling and the comment about "not owning him" is very telling because he's looking at you as an authority figure. Continue to ignore his behavior and no more talks about the marriage or separation/divorce. I'm glad you wished hin a good trip.
Enjoy your time in Dublin. You need a break and this is the perfect place to have a bit of relaxing time. I love Dublin! The people of Ireland are wonderful and very friendly. It's amazing how much the landscape changes from one city/town to the next. Lots to see and do.
Now, about the wedding/weekend away. It's up to you, but I would still go. It's a great opportunity to visit w/family and also to show him how much you sparkle and can have a good time regardless of his behavior. Nothing says you have to stick to him like glue. Again, it's a great opportunity to visit w/family.
I do hope you have a good week. Don't worry about your h, when he sees that his behavior isn't affecting you, he'll settle down and be civil again.
I should have known it was wrong step to send text about A. I had doubts, but sent it anyway. H is adamant that there is no A going on, that I should have asked him if I had concerns, and that he has no reason to lie, when will I start trusting him, etc. He also said that he knew even before I was going on trip that I was going to question whether or not he brought someone home. Said he almost mentioned it to me before I left. Sure enough, that is what I did. I did not even know how to respond.
H said he was trying to work on friendship prior to text to see if we could start from there. WHAT?! But because of my text it has made him realize that things are probably too far gone to make M work. Thinks I am being too irrational and up and down.
I'm amazed that you were able to see anything positive from this conversation, it's a testament to your emotional strength!
Do you have proof that someone was there, another woman?
I would expect him to deny and deny and deny until you confront him with absolute proof. I had among other things phone records that showed that my H has been in OW's city when he said he was elsewhere - and it wasn't until I told him about it that he admitted to the A and started telling me about the details.
If you need to discuss something with him again, you can always put it off if you sense he is in a bad place. You could say you're not feeling like it's a good time and you can talk later.
Personally, I would have been suspicious about the early travel. I have previously checked on H's hotel reservation to make sure it was like he said...
Yes, I am finding that I have emotional strength I never knew I had. I did not get upset or yell, which is a 180 from my previous name calling.
I have 5 strands of female hair that is clearly not mine that I found in his bed. I have not been in that bed at all. I was holding out to see if he would fess up. I partially did not bring it up yet as it does elicit feelings of disgust that I have to comb through a bed because of fears H is still cheating. He also move battery operated candles up to his room for ambiance he said. Right. I bring up the hair on Thursday when he is back. I may also say I took to DNA testing. Enough for him to fess up?
Yes, I did think about trip as well.
I can't suggest what to do because each sitch is unique (in spite of all the similarities), but I am very relieved I found evidence and confronted H. Apart from making me feel less crazy, we weren't able to communicate properly until it was on the table.
You have a few days to think about what you want to do.
BW- my advice would be DO NOT tell him how you know. Only bad can come of it.
If you tell him what you found, he'll make elaborate excuses. Jim and Jane were over, the married couple, Jane was tired and asked if she could take a nap, yadda yadda.
So no confessions, and now he knows exactly what you do and don't know. Because trust me, 110% of all cheaters lie. Why would you expect someone that would cheat on their partner to respect honesty? It's ALL about avoiding reality and consequences. You're dealing with an overgrown 6 year old.
Instead, just tell him you know everything and refuse to tell him what everything is, or how you know. But tell him if he wants to admit it and admit EVERYTHING you'll speak to him, but if he won't then you have nothing further to speak about.
I think the question is what next steps are you planning when he denies everything?
Job, interesting that you bring up authority figure. I often felt as though I was having to be more like a mother to my H than a wife. I focused on all of the responsibilities of a marriage and a household while he primarily focused on his needs and school. He never had to worry about paying the bills, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc. so he didn't appreciate the stresses on me while he was in school.
Another interesting thought that has come up last night is in regard to sex. My H clearly took a hit on his self-esteem because of my lack of desire and interest in sex. He said he felt something was wrong with him and the OW helped him realize he was not broken. I get that and wish would have done things to fix this and I told H this. But my H is also only looking at this from one angle and not seeing the whole picture or that this is a two way street. He is only focusing on how his needs were not meet in our physical relationship. He is now using A to avoid looking in the mirror for self reflection and awareness.
The problem is that my H seems to think is that my lack of desire was based on how he looked, finding him sexy, etc, which has never been the case. What is he failing to understand is there are other components of emotional connection and making someone feel desireable. Sure the OW is going to respond because he is likely wooing her, making her feel special, complimenting her, emotionally connecting, etc. H stopped doing those things with me. Instead my light was dimmed through this and the ho hum life of being a wife and care taker. Maybe if he had continue to treat me as a lover my desire would have stayed closer to the surface. I don't know how many times I told H I would like him to be more romantic like he used to be when we first met. I even gave him specifics and he opted to not follow through, so again as with everything this is a 50/50 issue.
Unfortunately, it is this lack of self reflection and working on his own issues that will put my H right back in the same position with OW or next R. My H has recently said that he is also to blame for where we are. Yet, I have not heard him give one concrete example of how. He is just not there yet and won't be until the A is done. I don't want hom back until he goes through this process.
When you first started this site I encouragaed you to spend 30 minutes a day digging in to how men felt in a sex starved marriage. I said you severely underestimated the devestation it caused and your role in it.
I have COMBED every post you've made since looking for signs of what you would've done differently in your M to have fixed this issue BY YOURSELF...yet I haven't seen this, and instead you are reverting to blaming it on your H's behavior and remarking that HIS next relationship will fail. Meanwhile, while you are on a DB site and happen to be the LBS, you aren't meeting this head on any more than he is (assuming he isn't reflecting and growing more than you give him credit for).
You say it's a two way street and he doesn't see the who picture. This is what people tell themselves when they feel the other person is wrong. What if it was a one way street, your H's version of reality was true to him every bit as much as the words you type are true to you? You can pin this on him not "wooing" you, but in his reality it looks much, much different. For him he had a need not being met that made his life feel unlivable. This was his QUEST in life, to try to understand how to communicate that need, or placate your demands, or whatever...he was trying to solve the puzzle and get his needs met because he loved you and this was all he needed to be happily married. He pursued the answer of 'what do I have to do to be worthy of love from my partner' for many years, and finally decided that it was YOU that wasn't going to allow him to win. So despite his love for you, your lives together, and the pain of the divorce, he HAD to walk away from a game that he couldn't win and that left him feeling hopeless and miserable EVERY NIGHT for YEARS.
That you understand this was hard for him but he just didn't go about it right, for you to pretend to understand what he went through when you go threads at a time not addressing your role in the breakdown of the sex life, how this affected him, or what YOU would've done differently...this just shows that you are glossing over this by 100%. I'm sure you don't feel that way, in your mind you have realized this and made changes. OK- let me ask- if you were in the same M with your H again, and he made no changes- could YOU by YOURSELF have changed the dynamic of the M? If not, why would you think YOUR next R would be any different?
You have been working hard to detach, set boundaries, and manage through the craziness that is an A. It's very, very hard. Now take him and his problems off the table and go back to you 100%.
BW, sorry I haven't been on your forums to respond, just read through your threads and I'm so sorry about your current sitch. Totally understand what you mean about self reflection, my H is also lacking this process at this stage. Your self reflection will make you a stronger and more beautiful person inside and out.
Hugs to you BW.
Zues, you are right I have not been journaling about what I am working on and changes I am making. They are happening though and I feel I am making great strides. The reality right now is that regardless of what I am doing right now, H is unlikely to notice if he is in the throws of A in MY personal space. Or if he is noticing (more likely), he is still thinking I am not living up to his ideals. One of his issues has been conversation/ disengagement from me. We have been having 3-4 hour light conversations at a time and he says it is still hard for him to start conversation with me?? Probably because he wants and is able to have emotionally in depth convos with OW. We are not at a stage to have those kinds of talks, so he thinks the problem is still me.
Regarding sex, I have readily admitted that I could have and should have made more effort with regard to this particular aspect of our M. I have shared this with H. I have no problem admitting my faults and failures in our M. I am reading SSM by MWD as well as figuring out my own sexual needs and turn-ons. There are a number of things I now realize I could have done to make an effort. I have validated multiple times over past few weeks the extreme loneliness and hurt that I have caused in this regard. I have tried to be more empathic and compassionate to H about why he resorted to A while at the same time saying it was not the right answer. Maybe had I done this H would have given more of what I needed. Or maybe he would have continued to focus purely on his needs. I also think I am trying to focus on too many changes at once. My primary focus though as been on engagement, conversation, and anger management as those are actions that I can work on that H will see. Given that we are completely non-physical and H has expressed he has no desire and getting elsewhere, it seems hard to take action versus words in this area. What suggestions do you have for this?
I will not accept 100% blame for where our M is and we will have no R until my H can also recognize his part in all of this. My point is that until his is done with A, he never get to the stage to looking in mirror.
I will not accept 100% blame for where our M is and we will have no R until my H can also recognize his part in all of this. My point is that until his is done with A, he never get to the stage to looking in mirror.
I think you can only accept 100% of your half of the marriage.
Yes he needs to accept 100% of his half too.
Whether you ever get to his half or not should not stop you from working on YOU!
JMHO
Cadet, agreed.
I would also like to clarify that I am only focusing on changing ME and my issues now. While I am journaling about what my H has contributed to Mmon this forum, that is not the focus externally. I am not sharing these thoughts with H. It is all about understand everything that needs to happen for new M.