She's leaving tomorrow. I don't know if its really over. But it feels like BD all over again. And I have to watch her drive off again tomorrow. I cant do it again. I just don't have it in me.
i don't want to wake up anymore
TLEE86. Part III Devastated Husband Need Advice Part 2 Devastated Husband Need Advice
T, yes you can. You can do so many things that you think you aren't capable of. You are so very young, T, and you have so much life left to experience. You can't see it now, but this is just one if those things that will open your eyes and make you stronger in the end. If my H had left me at 28 I would have felt the same way. But he left me after my circle had been touched by cancer, alcoholism, chronic disease, natural disasters. I knew I could experience things and come out the other side. The day he left I took my daughters out to dinner and got a third ear piercing. I felt the pain but it didn't define me. My point is, T, yes your pain is real and it's huge but it's not all of you. It's part of your life and you will be fine if you allow yourself to be. Please give yourself the gift of feeling the pain while seeing beyond it and realizing it won't last forever.
Tlee, please try not to lose hope. We are all here for you my friend. Things may seem dark right now. But remember that WAS say all kinds of things that turn out later not to be true. Things are only really over when you decide they are, because our WAS may tell us it is all ove - but truly only time will tell for us. My H told me he wants to file for D this week. He feels that's the path he wants to take right now. Will that always be the case? IDK - but I'm still hoping for the best but planning for the worst.
My best advice is to just get yourself through the next little period of time. Take it steady, breathe and be calm. It isn't BD again, because you have become different since then. You know so much more now about yourself and your M, okay?
Do you have supportive friends or family locally who can help you? If not, keep posting here, we are open 24/7. If you want to talk to someone, remember the crisis lines can help. Also know that our lives are much, much more than our M's and R's. Whilst this is tough, we can all move forward to happy futures, whether or not we manage to save our M's. Take care TLee - you can do this my friend. (((TLEE)))
TLee, you can and WILL get through this. I know it is SO hard to think of your spouse leaving. But, trust me when I tell you, once she is gone, you will find your own way. Like Toots said, just get through this, steady and calm. Lean on friends and family if you can and post here all you need to.
It is very hard, at times. I know it is. Years from now, this will be but a distant memory. You have so much life ahead of you and you have the world at your feet. Stay the course, my friend, and there will be sunshine in your days again.
Take care of yourself!
Take the long view, TLEE86.
Hi T.
Try to keep yourself warm and though we often concentrate on how bad we are feeling now, everything changes. When things get better and they will, take the time to recognize that.
We focus too much on the bad and forget to recognize when the bad passes.
TLee can I ask you to open a new thread because we DBers want to be with you on this very tough phase of your journey.
TLee, please breathe slowly and steadily, feel your feet grounded to the floor firmly and lift your head. Whether you feel like it or no, please smile.
Do you have a safe friend you can talk to today and perhaps stay with tomorrow? Please keep posting my dear one, we are here on what will be a difficult day.
Know this, it will never ever be this much hurt again in this sitch, Tlee you will have resilience in your life and R. The principles of detachment and DB will see you through. Trust the process, rest as much as you can, be calm, breathe gently and if you need to let go at any stage find a quiet place and its ok.
The love and strength you need are being projected to you by both MCS and V, others will join us. Feel the power and peace headed to you from the higher power and let it channel. Accept the great gift of support headed your way, you deserve every little portion of it.
When you wake it will be a new dawn, things will be different but the dark night of your soul will have passed. Tlee don't resist, accept the changes and all will be as it should be.
((((((((Hugs)))))))))
V
Zelda also posted to you Tlee in case you missed it.
Update us my friend.
V
My lovely where are you.
I am concerned.
V
V,
He posted over on my thread today, haven't heard about the sitch from him, however. Hopefully he's doing okay.
He's around. Having a really rough go at it.
:-(
I am relieved to hear he is still posting.
Take care Tlee.
V
I cant express how thankful I am to you guys- but thank you for your support.
She didnt leave Saturday. She just left. An hour ago. Its so painful and feels like BD all over again, down to my dog sitting and waiting by the front door for her to come home.
It was so sad when she left. Everyone (me and her) was crying and hugging each other. She just kept saying that she wasn't ready to come here, and that so much has changed- she's angry, frustrated, mad, sad, upset, everything. She keeps saying she doesnt know what to do or what she is going to do.
She's got a long drive back but I cant seem to pick up the pieces right now. Its sad when you start crying your eyes out but you stop because you realize no one can hear you, so whats the point.
I feel completely lost right now, that for a fleeting second she was back in the house again. But you all said it before she came home, that she wasn't ready, its too soon. Well, you were all right- I think I knew it deep down, but thought that once she got here, we would power through it. I guess that didnt happen.
I really don't know what to do now. Ive been advised to possibly go dark or to continue to be friendly with her if she wants that. Quite honestly? I don't think either one makes a difference because in the end, its up to them to figure this out. As long as Im not an [censored], i don't think it matters how i act.
She will continue to avoid problems and think about them for a short period of time before she gets tired of them and idk. Who knows what she will do or think about.
Im just trying to scrape myself off the floor. I wish I had a good friend in this area but I don't. Ive only been here 4 months. I am just so lonely again. I wish this would all just go away.
You have good friends here!
(((((((Hugs))))))
V
My thoughts are with you... I fully sympathize with what you're going through.
Everyone here on the boards are great people. But I know how you feel with wanting to talk to someone face to face too. For new friends, check out meetups in the area as 1 idea. You might find something you're interested in. There are also divorce support/care groups you might be able to find in the area too.
Take every day a little bit at a time and one day at a time. It does get easier. The first step is the hardest.
You will get through this.
TLEE, I'm so sorry you're having a rough time. As you say, it sounds like it was too soon. But I do feel there are some positive signs for your sitch. She is clearly upset, confused, emotional, mad, sad. And none of those things are a) decision made or b) indifferent.
It may be best to give yourself a little space and time. Try and focus on what you need and not what may help your sitch. I also think Sherman's suggestion of a local support group is a good one. That would maybe help you connect locally with some supportive people. It's hard when you are new to an area, and you'll get there. It just takes a little while to reach out and get to know people. Do you have some activities that you do already there?
Keep posting TLEE. Your sitch is still relatively new. Wonka always says that hardly any sitches resolve within the first nine months. Take care (((TLEE)))
Hang in there buddy, you are not alone. We are all friends here. You will not find a greater bunch of people anywhere and we understand, we really do...
When you are ready T, come on back.
We are waiting for you and we want you to be here in our group.
So, door's open. Everyone is here. We want to help.
Just feeling stressed and broken beyond belief. Ive taken a couple days off work but i don't even know if thats helping or hurting me.
I can barely get off the couch. Yes, I know I have to but you know what, its my couch and Ill sit there if i want to.
W texted me yesterday saying sorry and she's worrying about me etc etc and then proceeded to tell me about how she doesnt like the hotel she's staying in.
I just replied that I didnt know what to say to her. But proceeded to call her today (yea i know wrong move) and we got into an hour long conversation about our M. It didnt go anywhere. Just in circles. I knew she wasn't ready to talk about the M. But I did it anyways because its what I wanted.
Seems to be a reoccurring pattern. I do what I want. Still. Even after W left me. 7 months later. I still do what I want to do and whatever makes me feel better.
She came here, because I wanted her to. It was her choice, but i still pushed it. Why am I so dumb. I had her calling me all the time and texting me daily. Yet I push things too quickly and now its awkward. I completely disagree with what she's doing and where she's staying but I always push things way too quickly because its what I, ME, T wants. Not necessarily what she wants.
What now? Just bite my tongue at everything until I get us back to talking again. If she's had enough well, I can only hope and pray that she doesnt end things. Idk. I just do things when I want, how I want. And it doesnt work. When will this get through my thick head. IT DOESNT WORK IN RELATIONSHIPS OR MARRIAGES. ONLY IN WORK. I CANT TREAT MY WIFE LIKE A SOLDIER. She's my wife.
I hate myself right now
Sorry, this sounds so rough, and for good reasons. You're amongst your peers here as we have felt the same. Thanks for sharing.
My best friend is helping me stay on the DB path. I've explained the method to him and gave him the link to my threads. He's read the vets, etc. The board is fine, but we're just black letters on a white background and we might not be there at exactly the right time, or perhaps you'll need to speak, or just have a presence. It's good to have a person, close and nearby, to keep us disciplined. I trust this friend very much, for some 25 years, and I run a lot of my ideas by him. I hope you can find someone near you. Someone who will be detached like us, but also invested in your success.
It seems like this idea of self-control is crucial to your sitch and life. We talked about your changes before, about your behavior in the M, now the not-so-DB actions and words. You probably shouldn't rely on sheer will to control your behavior and impulses. There might be deeper things that you need to resolve so that these impulses are not as strong. An avenue for you to explore.
Do I just let her go? Reading Zelda's thread...just...I am that H. That horrible H that did those things to my W. How can I blame her for leaving me. She made her mistakes, yes, but there are so many things I wish I could take back. I don't understand how I could do those things...and this is the person that I love? How could I do those things...
She's back in TN now...and wanting to start school online and get a job again. The job scares me. It just ties her down more. Yes she can always quit...but should I be happy that she wants to work? Or should I be scared because it just ties her down to that place.
We havent talked much.. she just let me know she got in safely...Idk...
I don't know what to do about my own job. My career is on the fast track and I am being given alot of opportunities right now. But I don't want any of them. This job is a constant reminder of pain because of everything I did and sacrificed to get here. But I sacrificed my M to get here. I have about 1 month to decide if I want to take this next step in my career or if I want to get out and move on. I just don't know. I said I would do this job until it didnt make me happy anymore. And its not making me happy. I just don't know.
Maybe I should just let her go completely...set her free because Im the cause of all her pain.
Tlee, you are not the source of the pain. And yes, let her go, what else can you do? Take the focus on yourself, and become the best man you can be. Be the draw. Do not give up hope, but this is the time for you. You have a rough road ahead of you, but it is one you must travel. Look forward to it, you will grow in the ways you never thought possible. You will receive gifts that money cannot buy, just have faith.
You are doing well buddy. And there are great things ahead...
Your quote:
"She came here, because I wanted her to. It was her choice, but i still pushed it. Why am I so dumb. I had her calling me all the time and texting me daily. Yet I push things too quickly and now its awkward. I completely disagree with what she's doing and where she's staying but I always push things way too quickly because its what I, ME, T wants. Not necessarily what she wants."
Dear TLEE, this assumes there was a right thing you could have done that would have given you the outcome you wanted. Ok, fine, maybe you're like me and you're pushy. I'm sure it's annoying to live with. But it's not grounds for divorce by itself. She didn't have to come back. She made her choice. Why are you still trying to take responsibility for it all?
Something that has resonated with my heart (after it stung) - when someone wants to be with you, they will be. No excuses.
But ok. Let's say there was a magic DR spell you'd hit upon and your wife was moving back to you. It required you being not just changed-for-the-better TLEE, but inauthentic, nervous, a hollow shell of you to execute. What then? For how long?
I liked myself plenty when I met my H. I liked myself so much, he fell head over heels for me. I was twice as 'assertive,' sure footed, and I was twice as happy, too. I was full of color.
Throughout the course of our M, I've felt worn down and not good enough. All the things I liked about me upset him, left him dissatisfied and disappointed in the end, my strong points turned as attacks against my character. I wasn't gentle enough. I wasn't considerate enough of his thoughts he wasn't expressing. I 'pushed' when I could see he wasn't into something. I 'went too fast' for him, he 'couldn't keep up'. I was 'never satisfied'. I have started changing what needed a little tune up. But you know what? Neither you nor I need a personality overhaul. Translated - I am strong, respectfully assertive, I get my goals accomplished and I know exactly what I want to go after next. I forgot. I like these things about me.
What have you forgotten you liked about you??
You say your W isn't a solider. My H used to tell me he wasn't one of my athletes, or students, or employees. Well, fine. There was some validity in our spouses saying what they did. I am sure.
But YOU are valid, good, a being with a shining light just as you are. Her absence does not mean that you are not all of those things. Her absence doesn't mean that you're wrong or dumb or not worth loving and pursuing. You are. Just as you are.
I have a wonderful friend who reminds me, and I offer it to you - "you can make no wrong decisions. You are always just as you should be, where you should be, and making the best decision you can at the time."
Respect yourself for your journey to this point!
You can't control her actions or feelings about you, even if you DR perfectly.
You see yourself in my H. I see myself in you. I worked my a$$ off to show that I could change, I could be softer, less reactive (and I was), and my H came home - despite all of his verbal and emotional abuse, the physical intimidation - at the end of the day he just didn't have the heart for me anymore or desire to work on the marriage. And like you, I was wrecked twice as bad as when he left the first time. It was my couch and I was going to cry on it all day if I felt like it.
You reached out to me when I said I was happy, and I know it sounded like I was all over the place and going off my rocker. But each day I get happier, more at peace with the fact that (and I hope you will see this in your sitch, too) a R IS work - but I deserve to be with someone who wants to put in the work, also. I can't inspire that at a deep level - or beyond a momentary fleeting thing - if it's not in them.
TLEE, I'd hug you if I could. You are not my H; you WANTED your M, you are still standing for it. You are trying to change. That is the defining difference, despite whatever similarities you see. You are serious about you and your growth. Forgive yourself for whatever you think you need to. Offer yourself compassion.
If your W was to come back to your M yet again, would it erase the pain and insecurity? You can do that for yourself, without her. I promise. I tried the acupuncture 'tapping' thing and it helped if you want to google it.
Isn't that DR? We make our changes? Get happy? We give it our best shot, and heal (change, forgive ourselves) so we can enjoy our lives? It's not a method to repairing a M. It's only the best shot.
You are whole without your W; I know it doesn't feel that way. But you need her like a fish needs a bicycle.
I know that the biggest grief stems from feeling like we were fools, 'dumb' as you say, like we did the wrong things, lost the most beautiful love, said the wrong things, singlehandedly destroyed our M...but you know this isn't true!!!
You are TLEE and that is a good thing. You will love again (maybe your W, maybe not) and you'll be happy. Life is about so much more, and I'd grab you off that couch if I could
Vapo: Thank you, I am looking forward to the road ahead, and am growing in ways I never thought imaginable. The way I see it, if this didnt happen now, and were still together, I wouldnt have learned the countless things I have since this all started and it has made me a better, and more importantly, humble and less selfish person.
Z: Wow, thank you for that. Someone else told me once that I havent forgiven myself for what happened, and she's right. I know WAW had her faults too, but I havent gotten over what I did, those things that your H did and I regret everyday. At some point I have to look past it and forgive myself, and continue to learn from it.
Throughout the course of our M, I've felt worn down and not good enough. All the things I liked about me upset him, left him dissatisfied and disappointed in the end, my strong points turned as attacks against my character. I wasn't gentle enough. I wasn't considerate enough of his thoughts he wasn't expressing.
This actually bothered me..not a bad way..but she said the exact same things. That all the things she used to do that I told her I loved, started to bother me in the end. That she just constantly felt not good enough and etc et. Ironically, I miss all the things that "bothered me" more than anything now. But not too much use dwelling on it too much now, just keep charging ahead (I say charge, its more like a...low crawl at this point).
---------------
So stealing a page from Mozza.
Work: Still going really well. Ive learned that it must be a trait among leaders in the military because there all dicks when it comes to being compassionate about family stuff because they really don't care about my personal life, more...can you work. But Im still fast-tracking my career, due to take command of an Infantry Company very shortly and alot of my peers are jealous/unhappy because Ive been put ahead of alot of them for these positions, so it makes it..awkward at work but [censored] that, I worked hard to get it so screw you. Idk if I'm going to take it though, but conversation for another day..Not sure if this life is what makes me happy, despite how good I think I may be at it.
GAL: Umm...yea...still not much in this area. I do 1 of 4 things everyday. Work, Workout, play video games, or take the dogs out. But right now, Im ok with it. The biggest thing I miss is really talking to girls. Not to date or anything, but I work with all guys, and have zero human contact with the opposite sex so its just a big sausage fest everyday so its just weird sometimes like girls don't exist.
WAW: This is still all over the place. So bullet point style-
- She posted an emotional 10min video on her blog, just saying how bottom line, she just cant get over the hurt and the pain from everything and now she's on a journey to find herself and prove to herself that she can do things on her own
- Texts me frequently and tells me she's overwhelmed, crying all the time, super emotional, and how she wants to call and talk to me but doesnt know what to say.
- Talks about being lonely all the time and how she has no one to talk to (????)
- Says she cant think about fixing this M right now because she's not over the pain and what not
- Apologized that she is dragging me with her on this journey to find herself (????)
Theres not much to do here...these things really...just thinking about them, have been said for a while. I truly believe she does need to do this on her own, but on her own, is very..."intertwined (thanks C)", with how things are with me. I can only just keep validating her, empathizing etc etc and see what happens. Maybe its just me being dumb, but I can truly see how much she is stressed and overwhelmed with everything and really just cant seem to find solid ground. This is where I want to just step in and tell her steps A-Z to do to fix things but by now I know it wont work.
Oh, MCS, ironically Broken Together came on the radio while she was driving one day and she gets broken up about it now. Guess the big man upstairs has pretty good timing. (This song still gets me every time =/
TLee
there is plenty of time for change. Take that challenge become a man only a fool would leave.
I go round agreeing with Toots, now its with Z. There are women like Z, Gg and V who have been badly abused and who still have the capacity to forgive.
Please understand that some forms abuse can be forgiven, neglect being one. In this I agree with Z, in this we look at intention, some abusers deliberately abuse, others do so because it profits them. However, this type are largely unable to change, they are willful and lack love and respect. They are unable to adjust and do not feel the need to change. Tlee this is NOT you. The best you can do is change and grow for yourself, you have made an amazing start in this change.
You are standing for your M. This is a wonderful thing for you to do for yourself. I think you are on point here with your validating and leaving the path home smooth.
I wholly agree with Z and she has wonderful insight through personal experience.
V
TLEE,
Just wanted to comment on your post about work. I work in military development of systems and most of the folks I work with are in the leadership levels (O-5 and above) very much understand work life balance. The O-6 I directly support took me aside when my sitch all started and said "We're here for you, take your time" He called my boss and tried to arrange to get me some help with my daily activities so I didn't need to stress out at work (this of course stressed me out.)
I guess what I'm saying is a "Leader" can have different attributes than a great soldier. Empathy is definitely one trait that is often overlooked, but its a great trait to help build loyalty.
___________
Yeah, that song definitely will affect me for the rest of my life. I read something from the writer and he said that it was about how now-a-days we build this fairy tale of what marriage should be and when it doesn't go that way, we struggle to figure out what to do. Everyone on this board obviously understands what they desire for their marriage. Its a shame that some of our spouses don't see the outcome of all of the work we do on ourselves throughout the sitch.
Hi T,
...I see in the sunrise, I see in the rain...
I see in the laughter... I see in the pain...
Tlee, you love the maker and the maker loves you!
I know you are a faithful man, and a faithful person myself, I admire you for that.
It's time to put your life, emotions, and goal together. Your W told you with all the words what she wants to do. Your sitch looks a lot better then many of our sitchs around here.
There is a lot of hope for healing. Give it the time it's needed. Now, you can see how guilty you are, but with time everything will settle down and you start remembering that in a marriage it's almost always 50/50 because we always react to what the other person does, we have expectations and we react to those too.
Things will get better, like others said, take one day at a time. Feel sad, cry if you need to, allow yourself to feel the pain. Once it is done, then stand up and do something to improve yourself and your life.
How to meet people: If you don't have a friend yet to go out for a drink, or dance. Then maybe you need to start checking out your local churches and maybe join one, get involved with some of the activities they have.
Libraries have some clubs going on sometimes, or maybe you can find a support group somewhere. Go to some concerts, you never know what can happen.
Now it is summer, you have dogs. Try to do the same walk many times, go to dog parks, today I saw a nice looking guy with a big smile walking a gorgeous dog, he said Hi three times and had a big smile in his face. It was adorable.
Depression may hit you hard, it happen to me. I always tough that I was tough, but this one put me in a big hole, so I went to my doctor and start on some AD. It is not a lot, it just breaks the edge, but it is a life saver for me to function every day.
If you don't see all the improvement you want in this first month, don't bother yourself with limitations. It's a process and the more you do it the better you will feel and the more you will do it.
By the way, you say you work out, are you going to the gym? And if you go, how do you not see any girls? If you are working on your own, then start going to the gym when you can. After a few times, you start talking to people and then you can go out for a drink, coffee, lunch.
And even at work, there are no one that you talk sometimes? Maybe you chat a little and with no pressure ask what they are up to on a weekend maybe?
The point is that everything start somewhere. And please, get rid of those video games. They are great if you play with a friend for some quick fun. But playing by yourself is just wasting your time.
Instead, read some books of self improvement. The name "5 Love Languages" normally shows on these boards because it is a very good book to read and learn from.
The most difficult thing for me is the "Detachment". And I really believe it is hard for everybody. Start working on that, it will save you so much energy and avoid so many future mistakes.
How much did you read from the DR or DB?
Did you read the Sandi's 37 rules?
If you did are you following that?
Did you make a list of things you like or love about yourself?
Did you make a list of things, behaviors, you hate about yourself?
Can you start writing a plan of how are you going to work on things that you want to change about yourself?
You see, there is a lot of work ahead of you.
And what about an IC, are you seeing one right now? Can you go to one outside the military?
And please, do not beat yourself up because of the military stuff. It's admirable that you are willing to make a career about always working to save us all, to protect our good life in this country. You should instead always be proud because your strong character.
You are a beautiful man and have many qualities to be proud of yourself and that is why your W wants to work on herself. She needs to walk her own path, let her go and do her things to improve herself. Be her friend, be there when she needs you, just do all these things in a dBing way.
And post here everyday, listen to the advices, follow the ones you think feets for you.
You will be alright. And please, never say you are alone, that you don't want to wake up tomorrow. Remember, he will be there for you even when everyone left, when all lights go dark, when the water is revolting, he is always with you and he loves you.
When you have time, start posting to other people, it helps you too.
We love you young hero
Pink
Sweet T,
Hope your silence is just because you are busy at work. If not, please keep posting and share the load with us. I promise you will feel better if you spill out here.
Besides, we can all gather together to find some good advice for you. Remember that we care and that you are a very valuable person, even when you don't feel that way.
I am praying for God to give you peace in you heart and wisdom to see that tomorrow it is another day and another chance.
((((((((Tlee))))))))
Pink
Hi T,
Can you write at least "I M OK!" or "Hi GUYS!". Just one line or one work so we know you are OK. We are getting worried!
Pink
Pink, et. all -
Pretty sure Tim is ok -- but will be absent for a period due to work commitments.
Thanks Calibri, was just getting a little worry since the last posts from T were somewhat disturbing.
Military guys are very tough to some jobs but they are very sensitive to other stuff in life, they are educated to have the job done right, what in a real life it is not the case and their heads get all mix up. I have a brother in the air force.
Hope T is feeling a little better.
Pink
Thank you everyone for your kind words and checking in- you especially Pink.
This is probably going to be my last post for a while, I just don't know what to say anymore and what to do. I've also deactivated my FB and maybe just get away from social media and the internet and what not for some time.
--------------------
Im just at a loss. Feeling hopeless and directionless. Man my W can really talk. But thats all she is right now, all talk, no action.
It's been 2.5 weeks since she left this second time, and we go back and forth and she usually texts me everyday. But she stopped calling. Ive called her a couple times and both times she's been pretty emotional. Lately it sounds like she's comparing the two places, saying things like she misses her bed, the dogs, just alot of things...that she is tired of waking up everyday with no purpose and feeling lost and directionless herself. She tells me things like now that she's seen both places, she almost wishes she didnt like Texas because it was easier to make it some horrible place but now she realizes she likes it. Tells me after I get back from some training in a month she will think about possibly coming back, no guarantees but she says she will see where she's at and we'll talk.
But this is all talk. She continues to show me I am not a priority in her life and that come hell or high water, she will stick to this course of action she is on, no matter what the cost or if its the right thing to do.
When we talk, it seems like there is hope for the future. Yet her actions show something different. I am tired of being her backup plan, probably not even her second priority. I am tired of breaking my back and bending over backwards for her. I am trying to show change. Trying to show her that she is a priority in my life, that things will be different this time around.
I know she's all over the place, she's confused, she's emotional, everything. But I am tired of being her backup plan. Maybe this is how she felt for so long that drove her to leave. Maybe I deserve this because karma's a bitch and it comes around.
I don't know. I just don't know anymore. So many things in my life I have to re-evaluate and ask if I'm truly happy doing what Im doing and the path that I am on. Right now, I can firmly say No. There isn't anything I am happy about. Some things are going well, but that doesnt mean its what I want.
I don't know anything anymore. Thank you guys again for everything.
Dude,
don't try to show HER you've changed. Change for yourself. There is always room to grow and you have to make growing an ongoing process. Once you start changing for yourself, you will not focus on her as much, life will get better.
Take the focus off her and onto yourself. Are you happy with yourself? What changes to you would YOU like to make? Make a list and work on it. As I said, take the focus off her, focus on yourself. And believe me, she will notice you and your changes. Do not worry about being anything to her, just let flap in the wind...
Sweet T,
I know it is very hard, it's sometimes so painful you think there will be nothing of you left to change.
But this is wrong, we find water in the desert every other day. don't give it up if you don't feel like, take the time and be patient to find out what life will do with all of this.
She does not need to see or even hear from you for awhile, this will give you some room for yourself.
I also tried to get away from this board and forget some of the hurting things that I was going through but it was so much worse to deal with it all by myself.
So keep posting here, there will be always some one to chat and you can always spill out all what is hurting you.
Even if you just want someone to share your days, you can just jornal and we will be here for you.
Hope you have a good day today.
Pink
Hi Tlee!
I am finding myself aggravated at your W for spilling all of her emotional confusion and garbage on your floor. I see a girl who is sad she is doing this, you're sad she's doing this, everyone is sorry, but there is your living room stained and stinky even after she walks back out, and you are left mopping days after (as a metaphor for the space in your head)...but it has to stop.
What about a boundary.
W, I deeply care for you. For my own well-being, I would like you to deal with the choices before you, without dragging me through this anymore. When you know what you want, we can talk then.
IDK, Tlee. I think if and when your W feels you slipping through her fingers, feels the rope drop, this could be your best chance of a reconciliation. Sandi has some great posts on Kramer's thread that makes me think of your sitch, the waffling.
I am also thinking of taking a break from this board, just bc I think I will do a bit better moving on with a little space from this kind of focus. I will keep checking on you, hope you do let us know how you are doing, friend.
TLEE,
Sorry to see things haven't improved. I agree that your WW seems to be using you for emotional support which is eating you up. I think a boundary is in line also. You've got so much going for you right now, don't let the sitch hold you back. For me, I feel like I was on a "pause" for the last 9 months waiting for my WW to change her mind. I realized (quite suddenly) that I needed to be looking out for myself and not use my sitch as a crutch from living my life the way I want to. It's taking a while, but I'm much more accepting of me being where I am and I am actually okay either way it goes. However, at this point I can see there's no saving my M, it would have to be a complete start from scratch. With WW avoiding me at all costs, it's would be a long, long time.
In saying this, be easy on yourself. I see that you are blaming WW's indecision on your past interactions with her. That may be a small part, but WW decisions are based on herself and not you. I can see that in the indecisiveness of all parts of her life, not just your M. Be easy on yourself, Tim.
So I honestly didn't expect to be writing this soon but it feels lonely so I guessi vent. Doing this on my phone so sorry for errors. Thank you everyone for commenting and reading, I'll respond soon when I'm back home.
Still have another 3 weeks here...booo.and I'm exhausted, working 430am- after midnight everyday. Horrible.
I feel so lonely. Things have been very quiet with wife, she started a new job that she says is just something for her to do and take her mind off things.
We text briefly everyday but she said she's using this time that I'm away and she's at a new job to unwind and not think about me and her stuff for a while. That wen I get back from training we can talk about things-I'm worried it's divorce, although she explicitly said if she was going to file she would do it regardless of where I am.
Us not talking as much is weird. And I miss it a lot. I'm scared she's trying to detach and forget me, though she has said she misses things about Texas and what not. But I worry and wonder why we don't talk as much now. Maybe I'm making it a bigger deal than it is, but I can't wait to go home, even if it is to an empty house.
Keep posting Tlee.
Spelling etc is trivial within the context
V
Let's say it could be a quick fight and soon she would be home and there would be peace and love all the way.
Well, it did not happen that way. This is serious stuff and it is time to take it very serious too.
First, do you believe that this program can help you?
Do you believe that this program will help you independent of W coming back or not?
I know you want HOPE, and I know what you have now is FEAR. This fear is letting her to control the situation. This fear is betraying you and making you to make many mistakes.
I'm worried it's divorce, although she explicitly said if she was going to file she would do it regardless of where I am.
Did you read the Sandy's 37 rules?
Stop worrying about what she might do, what control can you have over her decision of filing or not?
If you worry, then it will just drive you crazy, insane. It won't help your cause it will actually make it worse because your W can probably feel you are miserable.
Did you read DB and DR? If so, what going cheeseless tunnels means to you?
Because from outside it seems that you enjoy looking for the cheese and running in many directions without knowing where is the cheese.
Us not talking as much is weird. And I miss it a lot. I'm scared she's trying to detach and forget me, though she has said she misses things about Texas and what not. But I worry and wonder why we don't talk as much now. Maybe I'm making it a bigger deal than it is, but I can't wait to go home, even if it is to an empty house.[/quote] [quote][/quote]
Stop this insanity T, you can't control her actions, her decisions, you can only control you.
Stop answering her texts every day. Maybe start with a hours apart, then you can move on to a full day without any contact.
You will feel that you are pushing her away, but you will be doing the exactly opposite.
She is telling you that she wants her space, her own time and her own success. Listen to what she is asking you.
You need to start detaching for real. You need to let go on the fear every day a little bit. It's very hard for all of us and it will be the hardest thing you ever did. But you have not much a choice right now. So use this time to grow as a person, change into the person only a fool would leave.
Please, please, please, stop talking about R, M. If she says something about it, then you say you are sorry she feels this way and change the subject.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself and start fighting for your M. No one can say you have a chance and no one can say you don't. But if you keep doing what you are doing then you may risk that she will just go away faster.
Think about T, when you came to this forum, you did not think that it would offer you a magic recipe to just put your M together in a short time?
It can just teach you to be more independent, learn how to be a better you, how to take this time to learn about things that you can improve in yourself.
There is no guarantees that you W will ever came back, but you have a chance to be a better person for yourself and be the person she will fall in lover all over again.
Think about and start writing your ideas here. We can storm those ideas and we can try to help.
Another big thing is to GAL, it is a must. You need to do something that you like and it will help you to detach more and more.
Keep strong T, you may lost one battle , but you are fighting to win the war.
There is a lot of work to do T, are you ready? Keep posting, I will ask around the board for others to post on here.
Take care darling,
Pink
Pull back Tlee, please pull back.
Otherwise you will press your own buttons. Pink is generous with you and kindly.
I concern myself with the looping and the damage you can do. It's counter intuitive but let WW deal with herself and you my lovely lad deal with you.
(((((Hugs))))))
V
Hey V, Pink thanks for checking in. I just got home after a month in the field. Feels so nice to have a hot shower and a/c again. It got well over 100 and we were just sucking out there moving around and sweating every second your awake. I have a 3 day weekend so it feels good to relax for a change.
Honestly not a whole lot to write, so I'm just writing.
It feels weird coming on this board now. So many people that I used to follow stopped writing, or write less and no one really has a whole lot to say..so I see all these new names and it [censored]. I wish no one else would go through this so it [censored] seeing all these new people going through this, when a year ago they probably never thought they would.
Ive been contemplating very seriously about getting out of the Army, and starting fresh. My wife has been with me every step of the way in my career and it just doesnt feel the same without her. And the Army is changing, no more deployments and if we do deploy its all just BS security missions. The hard charging, kick down the door days are long over- might be weird for some of you to read that, but most guys want to deploy again. It gives us a sense of purpose, a reason to exist- not just train to train so this Garrison life is weird.
Getting out also helps me close this chapter of my life that has brought so much joy and so much pain at the same time. Might feel very good to just start over. Above all, it'd give me a chance to see WAW more often, possibly be in the same city...
But there are so many opportunities that they Army is giving me this next year. And its very difficult to turn them down. Id like to wait one more year and then get out, after Ive taken all these awesome opportunities but idk if i want to or if the M will survive, yes its already "dead" like some people put it, but idk.
Things with W have been strange. One week she says she's ready for a D because were both in limbo and that she's ready to move on without me, and this week she tells me she misses the dogs and get this....she actually put her ring back on because she was "feeling things" and posted a picture of her wearing her ring saying she "forgot how beautiful this ring was" and of course cried a few more times. Don't worry---she took the ring back off again.
She's so confusing and I know she's confused, and all that but when she did that it made me 1) happy 2) think of Z and her H and its like...dont they realize that you cant just take the ring on and off? That its not so..nonchalant and casual?
As far as me, theres this pretty cool training opportunity run by some civilians in the local area that I want to go to. Its all about small arms marksmanship and clearing houses properly etc etc but it costs like $700....i guess thats my next goal and the next thing I want to do so...start saving.
Im sorry i havent been commenting on peoples threads..its just weird seeing all these new "Faces" and i feel lost going into it already but il try. Have a great weekend!
Hi TLEE,
Re the ring thing, I guess it's our values against theirs. I would say it's plain old immature. But maybe just a different way of seeing M. One that I will not respect, but good for thdm if they find someone who cherishes it equally as little. I thought I was hearing things when my H said 'break up with you' during course of M like we were just dating. No one deserves to be jerked back and forth!
I know what you mean about the board...
Careful about making decisions with chance to see WAW as a pro. She should not be a factor anymore. Let her feel the void please! Let her grow up if she chooses. I just see so much heartache in the future as she keeps stringing you along on her emotional tidal waves.
Thinking if you, TLEE. Wishing you freedom and peace to devote 100% your energies and thoughts to your new beginning!
Glad to see you posting.
The board is a continuum for me, posters come and go, Some of us especially those whose lives have a strong destructive invalidation element are here for much longer. Our paths are harder and there is more struggle in recovery, our Ms are harder to repair, our spouses have more complex issues, they are abusers or in As and are lost to themselves.
Others reach peace much sooner and for that I am thankful, yet others repair their M and for that I am joyous. It is as it is, dear heart I am afraid I am here for a longer period as I have so much to learn. Those who have a longer journey tend to leave newcomers and move to MLC or the recovery threads. There posters seem to post less often (or maybe there are less) but the post count of each posters is high. This is the home of Toots, Maybell and Georgiabelle all of whom I believe posted here. In newcomers we see the distressed posts, the sadness and the difficulties. There is less peace and more turmoil in the sitches here, I think. Sometimes for me it is those who are not ready who really need the blessings and who leave as distressed as they arrive which cause me pause.
For the time being I am glad to share the path with fellow travellers and am glad when they update us about their journey.
The board is a complex fabric, a tapestry of life with hope and repair for many.
I still feel 'new' and everything is so raw for me, I am here for a long while yet.
The decision to leave the army would be a very important one for you. You speak of such pride and hope when you discuss your prospects and achievements. The career you have is your bedrock and I would be concerned if you gave that up in haste.
A year is a good time to build your thoughts TLee. I agree with Z, your WAW is living her own life and it is important you live yours.
Hugs
V
Re the ring thing, I guess it's our values against theirs. I would say it's plain old immature. But maybe just a different way of seeing M. One that I will not respect, but good for thdm if they find someone who cherishes it equally as little. I thought I was hearing things when my H said 'break up with you' during course of M like we were just dating. No one deserves to be jerked back and forth!
I keep thinking about this Z. And its difficult not to. I keep wondering, WHY did she decide to put it back on, however long that may have been, and WHY did she post a picture of it online. My IC told me its one of the first "actions" W has done besides talking and i should be happy? idk... I know these questions will never be answered right now, but its just hard to not think about it. So..random, so out of the blue. Maybe just how she was feeling at that particular moment in time...yea, it was nice seeing it on her finger, though its off again now. =/
The board is a continuum for me, posters come and go, Some of us especially those whose lives have a strong destructive invalidation element are here for much longer. Our paths are harder and there is more struggle in recovery, our Ms are harder to repair, our spouses have more complex issues, they are abusers or in As and are lost to themselves.
The decision to leave the army would be a very important one for you. You speak of such pride and hope when you discuss your prospects and achievements. The career you have is your bedrock and I would be concerned if you gave that up in haste
V- I'm trying to get back on this board and start following others again, and all the new people that unfortunately are here. Sometimes, its just hard to keep reading the same thing over and over and how there is just so much pain out there. I truly appreciate your thoughts, and I'm sorry i don't write too much on your thread, i honestly don't know what to say...as far as the Army, I'm still wondering about it, but i think i found a solution where i can do what i want for a little longer and still get out around the time i wanted to. idk, more to follow.
--------------
This is more to vent, as sometimes i don't know who else to talk to. Some thoughts that are swirling about my head, more from things W said recently.
She told me "Thank you T for being so good to me. I miss the dogs, Alaska, the simplicity of everything back then, and a known path/future."
And this just keeps going around and around my head...like..im good to you? Didnt you leave because you thought i treated you horribly? and you miss all that stuff? Isn't it what you left? Whats stopping you from...not being gone. Nothing...
she also made a comment regarding her working, saying that she liked being a stay at home wife, but that the relationship took the toll and she should have done more for herself while staying at home. I havent really figured this one out...
And yes, Ill say it again, I know wondering about these things doesnt help, but hey its my brain and thats what its thinking at the moment =/
Now Im wondering at what point do you just throw in the towel and give up. She's all talk and very little action. She can miss everything and anything about our past, but she's still not making any attempt to come back. She is choosing not to come back. All under the guise of trying to find herself. I havent accepted it yet. The M is over, R is probably not going to happen. But I havent come to terms with it.
Giving up = detaching, Imo.
If she gets her act together and becomes a woman worthy of your further energy, you can be pleasantly surprised and consider anew, no?
Love someone, even your W, let em go...if they return...
And if they don't, trust, TLEE. You will find great happiness and love ahead.
Hugs.
Also re your earlier post - re the ring and trying to make sense out of it - our walk aways are just as, if more so, confused as we are.
Seeing my STBX actions, always and now, as ripples in an ocean...whichever way the wind blows, and no one ripple has much to do with the other or any particular meaning beyond its own reactivity to the wind. It is a thought that brings me peace. There is no such thing as A truth that will help any of us make sense of this, truths are shifty for everyone here!
Will attempt to call her tomorrow but if no answer, would appreciate your thoughts on this email. Thank you guys.
-------------------
W,
We have been apart for over 10months now, and as you know I truly want this marriage to work and would love if you came back and wanted to work through things. There is nothing that I don't think we can overcome. But if you are unwilling to do so and are continuing to live with another man, there are some things I have to do and some boundaries I have to set out of respect for myself. I am no longer willing to pay for the truck, cellphone, or car insurance every month and will be taking your name off the credit cards. These are not meant to punish you, but again, for my well-being and self-respect. I still do not believe D is an option and would like to continue talking to you if that is something you are willing to do. Please let me know your thoughts.
Your H,
-T
---------
I am no longer bound by the Army to let her use anymore of our money, i have a letter stating i do not need to do so anymore. The most difficult part will be after this is sent/told to her, and if she goes through D proceedings, and not hearing from her. I don't think reality will set in for her for a couple months until after she actually has had time to process things. I think she will be pretty angry when she reads this and will immediately go for the D- although I doubt that will fix anything because she will blame me for her suffering when this is all her choice.
I put this in your thread and I am hoping that you can get some good edits on this letter.
It seems a little wordy to me,
and maybe cut out any relationship talk.
JMHO, she knows where to find you if she want to.
Will attempt to call her tomorrow but if no answer, would appreciate your thoughts on this email. Thank you guys.
-------------------
W,
We have been apart for over 10 months now, and as you know I truly I want this and although i want our marriage to work and would love if you came back and wanted to work through things. There is nothing that I don't think we can overcome. But if you are unwilling to do so and are continuing to live with another man, there are some things I have to do and some boundaries I have to set out of respect for myselfthen I am no longer willing to paying foryour truck, cellphone, and car insurance every month and I have taken your name off the credit cards. These are not meant to punish you, but again, for my well-being and self-respect. I still do not believe D is an option and would like to continue talking to you if that is something you are willing to do. Please let me know your thoughts.
-T
---------
I am no longer bound by the Army to let her use anymore of our money, i have a letter stating i do not need to do so anymore. The most difficult part will be after this is sent/told to her, and if she goes through D proceedings, and not hearing from her. I don't think reality will set in for her for a couple months until after she actually has had time to process things. I think she will be pretty angry when she reads this and will immediately go for the D- although I doubt that will fix anything because she will blame me for her suffering when this is all her choice.
When you say I am not punishing you, then it will come across as if you are.
I am no Wonka but this is a statement of what you have done.
Go do it then send the email.
V
Hi TLEE - pleased to see you posting again. I agree that this may not be the time to make big decisions....but a year to think sounds good. I think you should live where you want to live with no reference to W just now. In terms of your email, am I right in thinking the overall aim is to achieve financial separation? If so, I would remove all of the whys and wherefore's. The simple fact is that if your W does not want to be 'in' a M with you, you want finances to become separate.
If that's the case, I would just stick to what you propose to do with the financials, and don't include anything on the R or why you are doing it.....maybe just something along these lines...
Hi W, I'd like for us to start looking at our finances in order to separate them and each fund what is ours. I want to be fair and reasonable about money, but I'm only willing to fund things that are yours in the short term and we've been S for 10 months now.
Can I suggest that we transfer X, Y and Z into your name and separate our credit cards too within the next three months please? Perhaps you could have a think and confirm a workable timescale for you with this please?
I hope you are well, and please know that I don't wish to be unreasonable, but I feel it's time for us to start focusing on this now. If you want to discuss it further, or suggest anything different, just let me know.
TLEE
As for the ring on, missing the dogs etc. who knows TLEE. It may be that your W feels a little wistful, but I also get a feeling she may be giving the leash a little tug - just making sure you're still attached to the other end. I don't know - but I think the best thing is not to expend too much mental energy on it. Truly, if your W would like to reconcile, she's going to let you know!
Take care, Toots xx
Thank you Cadet, Toots, and Z for the words and advice. I am...struggling. And I think I need to see someone.
It's been about 9months since BD. And I am still on the roller coaster. I look around and it seems most that I started this journey with are no longer on the roller coaster, but trying to accept and live their lives. If WAS wants to join them, then awesome. But if not, they are living their life. I am not.
I don't know what it is, maybe I am stubborn, maybe its my attitude, maybe my "Always have to be in charge/control" personality..but I am still on this ride.
9months later...and I am still realizing that I do the following things- I think I need help.
- Havent slept in our bed since Oct 5 (BD); been sleeping on the couch for 9months because I just cant sleep in the bed
- Still pining for contact, waiting to see if she will text/call
- Never leaving the house on the weekends; I don't even walk the dogs anymore, working out is hit or miss now
- Still snooping on our phone bills
- Therapy/IC is a waste of time for me- I just say whatever I want to say for an hour and thats about it. There is no...going anywhere with it. No fix.
- Still wondering why, how, thinking "Oh today she said this, or why didnt she text today"
- And a million other things.
---------
W is still playing the victim card, the..."I hurt too T, I still care, but we will never be able to get to that place our M used to be again. Talking to you hurts me...and it stresses me about...no matter what we talk about...this is because of what you did, I hurt during and after everything happened..etc etc."
So now we barely talk. But we havent talked about a way ahead, whether thats D or R. Its just...silence. I suggested maybe bringing in a 3rd party, a mediator, someone to help us talk about something besides the dogs and the weather. She doesnt know.
--------
I was told I too am playing the victim card, I don't see how, maybe I am, I don't know much of anything anymore.
I need help. I truly do, but Im too proud to get it, too lazy to get it, too...i don't give a [censored] to get it. I have very very dark thoughts lately. Very dark. And it scares me.
My best friends don't care anymore, they have nothing left to say to me. I don't know anyone well enough where I am now to talk to anyone about it. The unit chaplain is horrible, he responds when he feels like it, and never seems to check up on things. Ive never had a chaplain not return phone calls. I feel so alone. I do enough to get through work and then come home and Im a hot mess. And the day repeats. For 9months now.
I read stories here all the time, the latest ones LITB, Karma, and 1 other, I forget who, but all these people still DBing, over 2 years later...how LITB survived 2 different piecings I don't know...
I just don't know how to not hang onto her every word. Her every action or inaction. I keep trying to fix things, maybe because there is literally no problem in the world, no goal of mine since I can remember, that I have ever not achieved. Ive literally accomplished every single task Ive ever wanted to. If there is a problem, there is a solution. There has to be. But I havent let this go. And 9, almost 10months later, I am still on the roller coaster. And the ride continues. Now, its just a silent ride. We barely talk. But I still cant get over it. I need help. Im not doing well.
TLEE, I'm sorry to read this....It's a tough journey. It sounds as though you are comparing yourself with others and saying - hey, I should be doing better with this. And I don't think you should be so hard on yourself. It takes time to get to a place where you can accept what is happening. I still think about my H more than I would ideally like. His life has little to do with mine just now, but I still give him headspace. I'm working on that one...
It does sound as though it would help to come up with a plan that helps you work towards rebuilding your own life and detaching from the situation with your W more. You say that you think you need to see someone. Do you mean an IC? It sounds as though that may be useful for you. I saw an IC for a while and it was helpful. You're a bright guy and it sounds as though you could sit there for an hour and 'talk the talk.' But you can truly use that time to dig deep too - and explore the possibility that you and your W may not reconcile - and what would that mean for your life going forward? Because it does you no harm to start building THAT life now - even if you and your W do reconcile.
In terms of feeling alone. I get the thing about friends and not talking about it. I went to a friend's house for dinner this week and my sitch wasn't even mentioned! It has become old news now. But there is support out there, and it may be useful to find a support forum where you can share things. Some guys here are involved in NMMNG forums, some attend D support groups, some belong to church support and so on. But it may help to link with others who are going through a similar time and share with them.
Here's the thing - You are a young and talented guy. Whether you or your W reconcile or not, there is a good life to live ahead of you. It is a tough time right now, but you can move slowly and painfully in the direction of that good life you want for yourself - with baby steps if needed. But it's the general direction of travel (forwards) that's important.
Putting your W to one side just now - what baby steps can you take this week to keep your direction of travel moving forwards?
Take care TLEE xx
Dear Tlee,
Please don't feel alone. My friends are also at a loss what to say, and if you have dude-ier friends than I do...yours probably love you but are still at a loss.
I need people, too. The other day someone asked me if I was seeing professional, and yes, an IC, divorce support group...they asked, is it helping, and I started crying. No. Not always helping and barely coming close some days.
I do the things you do. I did. Over 45 days of NC, and I am regaining sanity. Your letter, in it, you say that you want to keep talking to her...but you know she has no answers...and it is hurting you...
Would you consider that to heal from your S, and to get to a place where something - whether true piecing or moving forward is possible - that you may benefit from a more positive kind of darkness with your W?
Your dark thoughts worry me, too. Keep posting. And is it possible to find another IC that you can work with? We know each other only virtually, but I think of you, too. You matter, TLEE. Maybe not as much as you want to your W at the moment, and you're not getting the validation you want from her...but you matter a great deal and I know you will feel/inspire love again in the future.
Please go feel the sunshine on your face. Remind yourself how much power and light you are full of. Celebrate you, enjoy your dogs, and maybe go help and validate someone else...that is healing, too. To have friends, be a friend...
As far as the letter, here's my offering:
Dear W,
We have been S over 10 months and you are still living with another man. I feel it is necessary at this time to separate our finances. I am giving you this as a courtesy notice so you can prepare to finance xyz by __date___.
I am working on making the changes I need to in my life, and I am moving forward. You know the rest of my feelings.
TLEE
(and don't respond with a lot more than 'ok', 'got it' and that kind of thing unless she makes a real effort in the future - she has to be the one to discuss turning this around.
--------------------------
Tlee, what you have been doing is not working.
In fact, nothing may!
But, being there to talk and let her tug on the rope whenever SHE needs validation, drama, or what have you...it is not yielding anything new - or mental hygiene for you.
All my opinion, and you can tell me to shove it if you like.
I like Toots question - what are the good things you can do for you tomorrow? The next day? What if TLEE was one of your friends, how would you see him and coach him?
Give yourself the love and treatment you most need dear TLEE.
Thank you Cadet, Toots, and Z for the words and advice. I am...struggling. And I think I need to see someone.
It is worth throwing everything you can to develop full mental health.
It's been about 9months since BD. And I am still on the roller coaster. I look around and it seems most that I started this journey with are no longer on the roller coaster, but trying to accept and live their lives. If WAS wants to join them, then awesome. But if not, they are living their life. I am not.
TLee, it's odd, I have been here the same length of time, I see the opposite! I see those who want to develop themselves, staying growing and Developing. It depends who we posted too. In general those who have had the greatest abuse or most complex sitch are here the longest. My sweet TLee that is you and I and Zelda and mustardseed and Greengrass and RD...........
You know this in your thoughts and mind.
Those that can let go of the outcome, have peace sooner.
I don't know what it is, maybe I am stubborn, maybe its my attitude, maybe my "Always have to be in charge/control" personality..but I am still on this ride.
reframe this TLee, it's because that is how long it's taking and at the end of it the renewal will be real and permanent.
9months later...and I am still realizing that I do the following things- I think I need help.
If you feel that there is a choice.
- Havent slept in our bed since Oct 5 (BD); been sleeping on the couch for 9months because I just cant sleep in the bed
I get this, I really do. I slept on a cot bed. It took me almost two months to reclaim my bedroom. If you examine my sitch you will see I stripped everything of WH away. New bed, new bedding, new duvet, new pillows etc, I had spares so I used those. I am busy cleaning, clearing and decorating.
- Still pining for contact, waiting to see if she will text/call
I am currently working on a post on Trauma bonding and Stockholm syndrome for the abuse thread. I believe the roots like there. I am the same, I decided NC for my sanity.
- Never leaving the house on the weekends; I don't even walk the dogs anymore, working out is hit or miss now
Yes, I can sympathise. Little baby steps, small challenges each day TLee.
- Still snooping on our phone bills
Separate the bills, that will stop you. Create a barrier.
- Therapy/IC is a waste of time for me- I just say whatever I want to say for an hour and thats about it. There is no...going anywhere with it. No fix.
I found that for a while, then I changed IC to one who was more direct and challenging. I also did CBT and that moved me forward. if what you are doing isn't working then something new different is called for. Gan travels, V works, Toots does falconry and volunteers and Greengrass wears red kick ass high heels.
- Still wondering why, how, thinking "Oh today she said this, or why didnt she text today"
Thats because you are bonded and trapped. Can you think of a dozen small things you can do when this starts?
- And a million other things.
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W is still playing the victim card, the..."I hurt too T, I still care, but we will never be able to get to that place our M used to be again. Talking to you hurts me...and it stresses me about...no matter what we talk about...this is because of what you did, I hurt during and after everything happened..etc etc."
That's what waywards do and say, and this doesn't make it so. In fact one of the things I have learned is when the wayward says these things they are talking about the gap in themselves that they are expecting you to fill. Any description or label they give to you is how they feel about themselves. If they say you are mean then you are generous, if they say you are cold hearted then really the warmth shines through.
So now we barely talk. But we havent talked about a way ahead, whether thats D or R. Its just...silence. I suggested maybe bringing in a 3rd party, a mediator, someone to help us talk about something besides the dogs and the weather. She doesnt know.
No talking will make WW change, she has to do this for herself. TLee concentrate on you at this time. Forget the dogs or weather, just be you and peaceful instead.
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I was told I too am playing the victim card, I don't see how, maybe I am, I don't know much of anything anymore.
Who told you that? If it's WW, 100% rule.......
I need help. I truly do, but Im too proud to get it, too lazy to get it, too...i don't give a [censored] to get it. I have very very dark thoughts lately. Very dark. And it scares me.
TLee a safe person in your life needs to know this.
My best friends don't care anymore, they have nothing left to say to me. I don't know anyone well enough where I am now to talk to anyone about it. The unit chaplain is horrible, he responds when he feels like it, and never seems to check up on things. Ive never had a chaplain not return phone calls. I feel so alone. I do enough to get through work and then come home and Im a hot mess. And the day repeats. For 9months now.
This is very tough TLee. Very tough and makes me sad for the lack of care of you.
I read stories here all the time, the latest ones LITB, Karma, and 1 other, I forget who, but all these people still DBing, over 2 years later...how LITB survived 2 different piecings I don't know...
So you acknowledge there are those of us who need longer and are in more complex psychological sitch. For me this stated Feb 2014 and my recovery is only just beginning. If there is anything to do its to stay NC.
I just don't know how to not hang onto her every word. Her every action or inaction. I keep trying to fix things, maybe because there is literally no problem in the world, no goal of mine since I can remember, that I have ever not achieved. Ive literally accomplished every single task Ive ever wanted to. If there is a problem, there is a solution. There has to be. But I havent let this go. And 9, almost 10months later, I am still on the roller coaster. And the ride continues. Now, its just a silent ride. We barely talk. But I still cant get over it. I need help. Im not doing well.
You may not be thriving, and I can see you doing better.
V
You ok TLee.
Here to chat if you need
V
Im here...very frustrated but here.
So I sent her the email about cutting her off. Worded it very carefully and then followed up with a text to say I sent you an email, please read it- since she doesnt check her email super often.
She sends me a text today, not even addressing the finances (i don't even know if she read it) and basically said...talking to you brings me down. Thinking about our situation brings me down, that the slightest contact with me makes her stressed and sends her into a "downward spiral." That it makes it hard for her to move forward and heal.
This seriously pissed me the [censored] off...because IM SENDING HER INTO A DOWNWARD SPIRAL? YOUre BLAMing ME?
1. Up until the past 2 weeks she's been contacting me every time she's stressed because I make her feel better
2. Im still keeping her afloat financially right now? How am I hurting her?
3. I actually spoke with her mom who basically told me that she doesnt think the door on me is closed. That when she left Texas a couple months ago she was telling her mom she's not sure if she should pack her bags and come back to Texas that this guy she is with cant support and provide for her and that he makes his kid a priority over her. But interesting enough, her mom told me to stand up for myself and not be a "pin cushion" because that isn't going to help her respect me. (yes everyone has said that here)
So what I did today, after she again decided to never answer my calls or texts, I said, please read the email i wrote you, I'm sorry if you feel like i bring you down because i try and do the opposite, and that we need to discuss the finances issues and call me by Friday because i don't want to make decisions by myself. Although I am set on cutting her off, id like to actually be able to tell her that instead of she tries to swipe her card and it doesnt work. But if she doesnt call me by Friday, Im going to try again on monday and then if i still don't hear from her, ill shut them off Monday. Again, I know i can simply text her and say I'm cutting the cards, i guess maybe i just want to be able to tell her directly so we can have a conversationa bout it? Specifically the car because both our names are on it. I cant sell it without her and I cant not pay for it because my names on it. So...until we agree to sell it or she puts it in her name, I'm stuck.
I know i have to cut her off. She will scream bloody murder and possibly throw in the D card. But i have to do it. and I'm going to do it. NLT Monday. I'm just giving and hoping us to have an opportunity to talk about it first...idk. I'm still being a bitch i think
I get it. Its taken me along time to realize it but I get why supporting her is bad (yea kinda dumb to just get it). But Ive been married once before, as Ive mentioned before- first wife and i knew it just wasn't going to work. But I pictured myself, when we split and I moved in with my current W, if my ex had continued to financially support me, to treat me nice and give me whatever I wanted. It'd be a little confusing, why was she doing this when I left, maybe she's a good person, but then after a while Id be wondering..she has no boundaries. She's so in love with me that she has no spine, no backbone. She's willing to do antrhing for me and not standup for herself.
I can show my wife i love her very much. She already knows this but I can still show her. But i have to do it without condoning her actions. I have tried so long, for almost 10 months now, to be a nice person, to be the good guy ,and maybe i needed to do that for a while, given the circumstances of why she left me...but now...10months later, I see that she is running all over me. you cant love a person you don't respect. And I would not respect my first wife if she did this for me. She would be seen as just a doormat. And thats why my current wife has the ability or balls to say the things she's saying, blaming me for everything when in reality...she made her bed, so now she needs to sleep in it.
This will still be very hard for me to cut her off, and i know you've all been telling me this since day 1...but finally I'm going to do it. Just trying to prepare myself for the whirlwind of repercussions and nasty things she might say, or even try and do to me.
Oh, and also..what kind of man...the one she's living with...can even live with himself knowing that he cant support her, so he's still allowing her H to do it...obvoiusly he is pretty desperate. If it were me, id feel like less of a man, that i cant even provide for my W...and id have to rely on her ex to provide for her. You know what? No more...she will scream bloody murder or file for D maybe..but its the right thing to do...the self-respecting thing to do. And only when she respects me, can she ever love me again. She knows that Im a good person now, she's said it. But she's still convinced I am the evil behind her pain, the reason she is stressed. But hopefully in time, she realizes that this guy isn't for her, he cant provide for her, that T is not the monster she makes me out to be.
TLee
You are not responsible for WW pain, hurt, fins or anything at all. She is a grown woman in a full blown A and trying to cake eat.
You will need to come to that realisation yourself and act, no one here or in your life can make this easier although we can support you.
I understand why you want to tell WW what you are going to do. If it's in the hope she will say "TLee I made a mistake, I love you and I am coming running" then you have expectations.
A number of things may happen - you could start the sweet cycle again and end up even more hurt. WW may spew rant threaten and blame and you will end up hurt. WW could get vindictive with the Fins and act unfairly and you will be hurt.
Look after you TLee, cut the fin tie before you advise WW or she does further damage.
Who has the car TLee? If it's with WW then expect fireworks. If it's in your possession the you may need to pay the loan before you sell the car.
Keep a detailed note of what you spend.
T if she describes you as a monster then you know she is saying that about herself. Record your conversation if you can and must do this by phone.
Personally I would not prewarn again, just do what you have to do.
V
^^^^^^^^^^^This!
Great post V...
She said she's going to file and talk to an attorney next week. That I can keep whatever is left here and that she will go and get our truck appraised next week and trade it in. That there is nothing left to discuss. And that I know why she's not talking to me lately.
I am absolutely crushed. On the floor, balling my eyes out crushed. I just don't understand. She really is in it for the money...
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This started because I saw she transferred money out of our accounts so I texted her and told her that I wont support her financially anymore because she's living with someone else and she's got a job. That I have a to draw a boundary of self-respect for me.
She texts back and basically says that I can either file and send her the paperwork or deduct the car payment from the amount the Army says i owe her every month.
I write her and tell her that I am not going to file because its not what I want but if she wants to that its her choice. That this is no longer about her finding herself, but that she is living with someone else and that I am not going to pay for that. That I am choosing to help her because she's my W and I love her. But I wont do it anymore because she's with someone else.
And she gets even more nasty and says that theres nothing left for us to talk about, that if i don't want to talk to a lawyer she will and that we can split it 50/50. That I can keep whatever is left here, and that she will get her car appraised next week. That I know why she's not talking to me (because talking to me supposedly brings her down).
I try calling her and no answer. So I text her and just say I'm sorry for everything, that i have tried to be what she needed me to be the last 10 months..that somehow even though she has called me every time she had an issue or was upset for the last 10months, I was always there for her, that I am still the bad guy somehow. That this isn't what I want. And maybe one day she can see that.
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I am so crushed right now. She put her ring on 3 weeks ago...she told me 2 weeks ago how good of a person i was to her...i comforted her when she started this new job 2 weeks ago...but what happened the last 2 weeks? how did i get to be the bad guy again? Was she really just in it for the money? Her mom even told me that she wasn't 100% committed to this guy, that she knows he cant financially be stable and support her...that she debated on packing her bags and coming to Texas...
Ive tried so hard the past 10 months...done more than what I think the average person would do...but somehow Im still the bad guy...I was always there for her. Always. But now...im still the one that drags her down...
I knew she was going to throw a fit when I took away the $...that she will probably play the D card...but how does she get to be so cold...so mean...this is the same wife that would face time me or Skype a few months ago...what changed....im just a mess right now...i cant even....i think its really over.... =(
She texted back.
W: "There's nothing that needs to be discussed. I don't think you're the bad guy, I don't hate you. I don't think you didnt try these past 10months or do everything you thought you could. I Just reached my point a long time ago. I decided I wasn't going to be hurt by you last summer and unfortunately you tried to change that but it couldn't be changed."
Me (Paraphrased): " Through everything W, if there one thing you can take away from this is that I loved you and love you...that I'll always be there for you married or divorced..that i just have a hard time understanding what happened because the day I left for Ranger School, these aren't the emotions we and for each other..quite the opposite.."
W: "It's not that I decided THIS when you left, its that I was too hurt to go on anymore and unfortunately the pain won."
Me: "I will never understand the pain or emotions you felt when I was gone, as hard as I have tried. Pain is present in every marriage. Its what we choose to do with that pain that makes marriage last or fail. I am hurt too W, more than I have ever been. But I am choosing to fight for our M because I still believe in it. That you could be doing whatever you're doing and I still believe we can work through it because I love you. You're right, I wasn't there to take away your pain and loneliness, when I was gone. And I'll never forgive myself for not being there."
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I probably did and said all the wrong things. But I cant change that now. She still thinks every thing is because she felt wronged and that there's too much to overcome. When in reality, what really happened was..she felt lonely, she got angry because of things said and done to her in the past, and someone else was there when I wasn't.
While we were texting, she decides to post a picture of her in a bikini or something smiling. She doesnt give a [censored]. She just doesnt [censored] care. There's nothing left for me to say. Im utterly and completely broken. And I have no where left to turn.
I was alone when when she dropped the bomb on me initially, and I'm alone now that were getting a D. I guess this is just life.
TLee, you are not alone OK?
I can see the isolation and lack of support IRL and to me it's extremely unnerving. Sadly these destructive sitches are isolating and some WS use this effectively as a tool for managing the sweet cycle. I also understand how hard it is to break free from this, everything within you wants WW back in your life whatever the cost. You are likely trauma bonded in a big way to WW, more difficult for you because you are in the army.
I can see how horrid it is that WW is using you for Fin resources and even harder that you know this. That you can see it, this is being a target. This a point of unknowing, you can not now unknow this, at future times you will need access to this low point to keep you strong. I would love you to post your list of the fin abuse you see for future reference or at least have it for access to.
I am concerned that your messages may cause WW to start the sweet cycle again. Be nice, kind etc to get you emotionally involved.
Please know this, I can say with absolute certainty that you did not cause this, you can't control it and can't cure it.
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I sincerely hope that you won't listen to messages to grow b@lls, act like xyz tough guy to attract your WW back. Stand up to her etc. I truly want you to have peace and be strong enough to go NC, to create distance for yourself. To heal, and to rest awhile.
Know that in this position your WW has the knowledge that you want to be with her. Nothing in the messages she sent to you or you to her is unknown to WW. I think it's a good thing that you sent the messages as now WW reactions to you are clear, you have these in writing, keep a printed copy for future use.
TLee my concern is for you, the gentle, kind, generous and loving man that I read in these posts. A man with great sadness and pain, I know how that is, I have walked that path. To know the one you are with is mainly concerned with extracting resources and if they need to will do so again.
I would like to give you the biggest hug, and let you cry it away for a while whilst protecting yourself. TLee now is the time to get L full on. Is there someone that you trust that you can talk about the practicalities. Please get good legal advice and keep posting. I will check in on you every couple of hours.
At this point consider extreme self care. Know that I say this from deep in my heart, this is not because you did not love WW enough over the last few months, nor that you kept it to yourself. I truly believe that WW is the issue here and in no way at all did you fall short in your R with WW. Everything I read is just normal day to day stuff. If WW had been so unhappy then she could have been a WAW and been sad but sorry. Gentle and generous, this isn't WW, she is a wayward from the playbook. WW is wayward and living with an OM because she wants to but she also wants TLee resources too, this is unreasonable at best and manipulative at worst.. TLee protect yourself in every way you can, every way possible.
((((((((Hugs))))))))))
V
Tlee, I'm sorry for all of this. I agree with V that it would be a good idea to have a consult with a L now and understand your rights going forward. Your W isn't at a point that she wants to return to the R just now. That could change at some point in the future - time will tell. And the fact that she is mentioning D doesn't necessarily mean it is all over. Many sitches here reach that stage and then turn.
You are not powerless here, and there are things you can do to influence your sitch. My biggest concern for you right now is your own wellbeing, support network and your degree of attachment to your W. Apart from getting yourself some legal advice, I think you should have a think about how you can better look after yourself, build a better support network and stop linking your own future happiness to what your W is doing.
I think that is the best way to pull yourself up out of the hole. If you remain as attached to your W and your hope of R, I worry that you will get pulled under again. Have you had a really good look at the 37 rules again? You know that you may have done and said things that weren't DBing. What do you think they are and how can you avoid doing them again? Next time your W gets in touch, maybe post here and get some advice before you reply. And remember that above all, DBing is an approach to save yourself - and you may just save your M in the process - but saving your M is secondary to saving yourself.
TBH, I still think your W is conflicted. She is posting pics of her in a bikini, but she's with someone else, but he can't really support her and she was thinking of leaving....truly she isn't in a great place. But you really need to detach from this. What she is doing needn't be your life. I'm keen to see who 'single Tlee' can be. What does he enjoy doing? Who are his friends? What makes him laugh, brings him joy? Who does he confide in? Share his troubles with? These are the things to look at just now. All are independent of W and all are about you. I'm not saying you will be single for ever, but you are just now, and may be for a little while yet. And if you can find joy, meaning and peace in your life now - despite present challenges - you will be in a better place for moving forward whichever way.
Probably you need to grieve some first. Not because things are over, but because things are sad and tough just now. But please then post about how you are going to move forward to a better place from this. We are all here and will help you - you are not alone my friend. xx
Dear TLEE,
I can't post much right now. I am thinking of you. Wish I could go R you a call or something.
I see manipulation.
You won't support her? She's going to kick you in the balls again.
As my ex is telling everyone how upset he is...he is doing the equivalent of bikini pics. Some people live their whole lives with no center, no strong mind, a mirror of whatever is sitting in front of them, reflecting the hopes and expectations they see there. You and I loved our spouses dearly when that love was reflected back. And they are wayward. Bored and confused littke mirrors off to go find the next great thing that still won't fill the holes.
She is the enemy now. Be a diplomat, and fight for you first. No more for her. You are too good for this.
No V- I don't think she will start the sweet cycle again. Instead I feel like she's digging in her heels even more where she is at now. This morning she posted a video of OM's son. I couldn't help but notice our bed in the background- with no sheets on it. She used to have sheets on it, and I cant help but think that she's just moved to OM's room and there staying in the same bed every night now too. I just....cant even fathom this. I blocked her from FB...but Idk if I'm strong enough to keep it that way...she just...doesnt seem to care anymore. At all. She's made her choice.
Toots- Maybe she's still conflicted, I don't know, doesnt seem like it. Last night she posted "Can I move back to Alaska now?" after our texts...always strange to me why she keeps wanting to go back to Alaska when thats where our memories are. But as I said to V. I think she's digging in there now. Whats worse is her family doesnt seem to care, its more of...ok she's just going to do whatever she wants to do..Thres no stepping in, no..HEY THIS IS WRONG...its just...hands off..I don't know how to move forward. Its so easy for WW to just walk away...Im left in a house of memories and all of our things. I know all of you are in the same boat. Sure I could redo the whole house...but do I really want to spend that money. I don't know. Im just..i don't know...
Z- thank you for posting. I know your sitch is incredibly painful right now as well. Unfortunately I think i will be in that same boat very soon. As Ive written so many times now...its just unthinkable to me how they can be one way, and then the next second it just shuts off. I just cant do it...and I'm left to pick up the pieces all over again. But how can you be whole when she's got the missing piece.
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Didnt sleep until almost 5am last night. I just couldn't. Im so crushed right now and I don't know how to not be. I just want to crawl into a hole and be alone. I guess I already am. How can they so easily just..move on...did our M mean nothing to her? I was gone for 3 months...and before those 3 months, we were pretty happy. She gave no indication that she was going to leave. I just...cant believe this. The coldness, the meanness, the...i don't give a [censored] or care attitude. Alot of you have been following my sitch for a while..my W was one of few who I remember specifically writing that she didnt act this way. She wasn't mean, she was actually extremely friendly...who face times there H that they left? But its all over now. Idk what to do anymore.
Just checking in TLee
As much as you can please relax and if you need to cry it out do so.
I wish I could help take the pain away but sadly I can't. Truly this is the worst it will ever be. You are going to move on with your life slowly whilst it does not feel like that at the moment, it will happen. Post often to us we are here reading and sending you all of the strength across the miles.
((((((Hugs)))))))
V
Hey V- thanks so much for checking in on me. I feel very...I don't know right now. I still keep my ring on, havent taken it off since this whole thing started. I guess...I still feel attached to it? That until we are divorced, its still...mine?
It [censored] now though..because I find myself checking our phone logs to see if she's contacted a divorce lawyer yet. And I wonder if tomorrow will be the day. Its a horrible feeling...And of course theres a small part, well, pretty big part of me that wonders and hopes that maybe she wont call a lawyer. Maybe she was just angry when I said no more to the finances but wont really file right now. Probably false hope...
I did join a dating website..not sure if thats the right move but honestly I'm so tired of feeling alone. Im not looking for anything serious but something to dull the pain...I don't know. Im trying to throw myself into work to give me a distraction but its hard when work was all I ever did before and look where it brought me. and on this dating website I find that even if a girl is pretty, all I do is compare her to my wife. Like oh you don't look like W, you don't talk like W...idk..im just not ready i guess. I feel blue. Gonna try and go run and maybe get some feel good hormones pumping into my veins. though it is 99degrees at 8pm right now. THUMBS DOWN. =/
Go run! If I can roll the outside of my house in 103 heat, you can run dear TLEE!
Good on the site, I think, careful attracting more hurt into your life with the hurt energies that haven't yet healed - or vultures sensing wounded prey.
but start looking at your future's possibilities. Our SO are the past as of TODAY. Theirs is the power to change that if they wished, perhaps...but we must live for our TODAY.
Thinking of you too, TLEE. I'm sure there was once love in our situations but it came from unstable hearts and minds. The stories have reached their natural conclusions I'm afraid. We will save our love for someone it will be safe with the next time.
You've been with me for a long part of the journey here...I know I am different and healing long ago broken parts. Perhaps in time out STBX/H/W will do the same. That is their story now.
You did all you could.
On with ours - Google 'unbroken motivational video' YouTube. 5:58 My present to you today.
TLEE! Say something!
Hugs, been thinking of you.
Hi Z. Thanks for checking up on me. Things have been ok lately. I am just getting ready to take Command of an Infantry Company this coming Friday. So...translated for all my civilian friends on here..It just means I'll be in charge of 150 Infantryman and we'll get to kick some ass! Ha. So its been busy lately.
Besides that, Day 4 of NC with WW since she wrote that stuff to me. Im not sure how I feel. It comes and goes and last night I broke down but I am ok this morning.Works been keeping me busy.
She did post something strange on her online blog, not Facebook...obviously directed at me.
"I hope you are doing well. I miss (watching) modern family in bed and Alaska and snow and Costco lunch trips and good friends 😕."
I don't know if this is a ploy to get me to reconsider the finances that I cut her off with or...idk. Im guessing this is just how she feels right now, this morning. The last time we texted was on Saturday, when I cut her off and she threatened and basically told me were getting a D. She hasn't called a lawyer- to my knowledge- and I just saw this weird post. Makes me wonder...makes me want to be like...I miss that too...everything...and want to reach out to her..But I wont. Im trying to move on. Trying to see what else is out there. Do I really want to? No, not at all. Im convinced I will never get over her.
But if she misses those things that much, she knows where to find me. Until then, I have to stay the course. She chose this path...let her figure it out, let this other guy and her work through there (hopefully millions) of issues and hopefully see that this guy is just garbage and took advantage of her while she was at a weak point.
Reaching out to her right now, is just too soon. There is nothing to say. i don't want to start the nice cycle again. I want to continue NC until she decides to turn things around or...D, hopefully not but i dont know.
Oh hey, HP is back! With some good news!
^YES!
Every day will get easier. Stay the course.
I've not reached out to my STBX for the same reasons. He says to others he still loves me? He says I want the D? He called our MC last week? So what. A grown man would contact ME and say what he had to say.
Looks like you're starting to get there, TLEE and I am so happy for you. There are still down days ahead but the intensity lessens, I promise.
Hugs, proud of you for ignoring the yank-bait.
I guess WW is temp checking TLee.
150 in a troop, sounds big cheese stuff, pretty awesome.
V
I find myself missing WW. Quite a bit. The online dating scene is...just not really for me. Ive tried to put myself out there but 1. I don't know if I'm really ready for that... 2. Im not really getting anywhere with it.
Every girl just...doesnt appeal to me the way WW does...strange as that sounds. It's been about 10 days of NC...and I really want to reach out to her..to see how she's doing..to send her things about the dogs..but Ive held back..
I don't know why I love and care about her so much. I mean..shes living with another guy for [censored]'s sake!. But...I guess at the end of the day she's still my W. Idk...im not going to text her because i really don't know what to say. It doesnt help that its the weekend and things are quiet...very quiet, and everyone I know and hang out with is married so its just...different.
To make things worse? Im going to be at the base near WW (about 15min away) in about a month. I don't know if i should tell her ill be there? if we should meet up for dinner? That maybe we should talk and figure out if we should file?
She hasn't filed but then again, idk if she ever will..or if she's waiting to see where this thing goes with OM (probably accurate statement). Idk..weekends suck. Ironically being at work is better than sitting at home...or hanging out with married people. Why the [censored] should they get to be happy.
T,
I think its normal to still love and care for your W. I struggle with this as well, and feel as you do that no other women can compare right now. To me, it's just a sign that I not fully moving on yet.
However, as Sandi2 pointed out to me, you can't expect to just turn love off like its a faucet. Only time can help you with this. Detaching isn't about stopping loving or caring, it's about not letting W actions tear you up emotionally.
That maybe we should talk and figure out if we should file?
Curious however about all the "we" talk, what do YOU want?
Jedi is right here TLee,if you want to stand do.
However are you sure you are not reaching out just to get a reaction from WW?
It makes no sense to call D if that's not what you want, ultimatums back fire sometimes.
V
I should be proud of her, happy for her, and I am. But I am also a crying hot mess.
She sold our truck, our beloved Tacoma. She didnt tell me, but she posted this long blurb on her blog about selling it and how I was really helpful in helping her pay for it and how she was nervous because I'm her safety net in everything but this time she did it on her own. She mentioned that she needs to talk to me and let me know about selling it but i just texted her instead when i read it.
i said "I just wanted to say Congratulations. I saw your post about getting a new car and I am very proud of you for doing that on your own. I am sure you were really nervous about getting one on your own but again, I am proud of you W."
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She actually did it. She got her own car with her own credit and her own payments. I should be happy for her, proud of her..instead I just see it as one more step of her moving on. This is her first, very first big girl decision and she made it. All by herself, at least for the most part. Yet Im just in tears and thinking that its just really over. I havent talked to her in 2 weeks, NC at all from either side, so I guess she's ready.
I should be happy for her. But I cant get over her. I have taken down every picture of her, and havent reached out to her at all. I am trying to date online, but its just not working. Im just on the floor bawling, when I should be happy for her that she made a big girl decision and she is doing it on her own. She has a job, not a great one, but she has one, and has her own vehicle in her own name.
I should be happy for her. But Im just in tears.
I want to send this to her...it hurts so much right now.
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i hate you. I hate you so much. You abandoned us. Me, the dogs. Everything. It was so easy for you to just walk away from it all. From everything we have ever shared. From our house, our dogs, our car, everything. And you ran away to somebody else. And it was so easy for you. To forget about everything. To just leave us all behind.
Im the one that has to deal with looking at our stuff everyday. our furniture, our dogs, everything. even the small things we bought together when you were here in texas. you don't have to be reminded of anything. just your new life.
We both came into this relationship with nothing. And we built everything we own together, through blood sweat and alot of tears, both happy and sad. But you [censored] left me. You left everything behind. And its me that has to try and heal myself, to heal this broken family. I gave everything I ever had to this marriage. But you left. And its me that has to deal with everything.
I tried so hard. To be what you needed me to be. But i just wasn't enough. I hate you so much. for doing this to me, to us, to our dogs, to our family.
I always asked you if you would ever leave, if i died in afghanistan what would you do, where you would go. if you'd ever get over me. And you always said no you'd never get over me, that you'd buy a house somewhere and live by yourself with our dogs and just be there. That it would take you forever to get over me. But now i know thats false, that it took you 3 months while I was gone to get over me. To move on. And I'm left to pick up the pieces.
All I wanna do is never wake up again. i have no friends and family here. everyone here is just an acquaintance that i cant even talk to about anything serious. the one friend i have here, the one good friend that knows whats going on, is leaving on monday to go to georgia and he wont be back. you say you were alone, you don't know the meaning of being alone. This is alone. me, myself, and our dogs with our furniture knowing you aren't coming back. knowing that i just congratulated you on your car and will not hear from you.
I hate you so much. But in reality i know i don't. I love you. And theres nothing i can do about it.
So much pain in that letter. I am glad you got it out of your system. Do not send her this of course. It is just good to get it purged. Type it up and print it out and burn it. That is just an example of a ritual that will help you get over this chitty experience.
I did that - did it help anything, I don't know but I felt better after I did it.
Keep on keeping on TLEE
I feel your pain TLee.
I'm in the same boat but on the other side of the divorce line. I sure hope it gets better too but it hasn't yet. No advice just support.
I feel your pain TLee, as will many.
Here's some tough love though, get yourself back on the DB line. Re read the book(s), read the success stories, the inspirational forum threads In the DB Archives
GAL, stop making it about her and decide what you want to do with your life and focus on you
Become that great guy that you know is inside you and you will feel so much better.
If the R with your W recovers, great!
If it doesn't that's great too as you will be a far better person regardless and so you'll find someone who truly values you and that R will go on forever.
This is tough stuff I know, but sitting around not taking positive action will only make you feel worse, no matter how many say they "feel your pain".
Beagley, Bravo, HeavyD- thank you. It was a really rough night and continues to be as I face the reality of it.
WW actually called me this morning and we talked for about an hour. I just told her I was proud of her for getting her own car all by herself and everything and she seemed pretty happy about herself with doing it herself- as she should be, her first real big decision and she made it.
I did bring up whether or not she was planning on filing, and she said it is something that she plans to do, but she knows that if she does it will affect both of us- meaning I would have to go find another house and I would take a pay cut, and she would lose benefits and stuff.
But I told her W, I don't want to stay married because of benefits or forcing me to move, I want to stay married because we want to stay married not because of what it can offer. And I told her that she knows where I stand on our M and I know where she stands, but I told her that I feel like we never gave our M a chance, and that for the 3.5 years we've been married, I was gone for 13months with deployment and Ranger School and we've been separated for 10months so we never were really together long, that its easy for us to go live separate lives but at some point, we've both been through 2 marriages in less than 7 years...and that for me, its time to start looking at myself instead of the other person.
And she just told me that well maybe we can discuss all those things when I get up there. And I asked her if she would consider a mediator, not necessarily to figure out how to split things, but to help us figure out if this is the right path for both of us, knowing that she also likes to shut off when we have deeper conversations so the mediator will help there too. And she said she'd think about it.
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I guess the advice I am asking for from all of you is, without a mediator, what am I even supposed to talk to her about? If there even is anything to talk about....I feel like every things been said, and that it will just be me saying how i feel about the M, and she will say how she feels, and that will be it. There wont be anyone there to ask the hard questions of..is this the right path, did we really give this marriage everything, etc etc. It will just be a he-said she-said. But she's wanting to talk about things, but Im not sure if she's really wanting to talk, or just discuss the steps that we will be taking in the future...im trying to face that my marriage is really over...and that the "reality" that hits her...may not exactly be a bad one. But then again, she hasn't even made a car payment yet on her car, or done any of these things, so she really hasn't quite had to experience "the consequences of leaving."
I just don't know what we would even discuss.
Glad you didn't take offence TLee86.
Continuing in the very direct vein, it sounds like your conversations with your W are collective monologues with neither of you listening to the other, a common feature of a couple with a relationship seemingly heading in the wrong direction.
A mediator is a fine idea as they will keep things level and ensure neither of you over imposes themselves on the conversation.
What I'd suggest you do before you get into one of the sessions, or have another conversation with your wife, is to study on how to listen and really hear what your wife is saying to you. Stop thinking about what you are going to say next and focus on every word she is saying. Also look further into Validation on this forum. It could be that by simply using your ears twice as much as your mouth you might find your wife opening up and if you are smart will use the clues she gives you to get your R back on track.
Finally, when was the last time you read the DR book? From what you have said above, it would seem that the answer is "too long ago" and you need to remedy that pronto!
Hi TLEE,
I am thinking of you. Please be careful.
Wish there was more I can say, to help, but my own head is such a mess. I am just wishing you strength.
TLEE86, you've gone very quiet, are you OK?
Hi, thank you for checking in. Quick update, bullet point style as C used to say.
- Work is going very well, I can actually say that I really enjoy going to work now. I love being in charge of Soldiers and its very enjoyable. I actually look forward to the work week.
- I hired an interior decorator to redo the entire downstairs of my house. Somewhat pricey, but it'll make me feel better and I could use the new things without WW's memories attached to them all. Im planning on hosting a BBQ at the end of September when everything is complete.
- I started online dating. Its...interesting..pretty hit or miss...have a couple "dates" lined up but to be completely honest I'm not exactly thrilled or feeling the butterflies about them as Id hoped/wanted. But maybe in time. Right now its just difficult because as I said before, I just compare everyone to WW, how she looks, how she acts, talks etc etc. But one day...
- I'm going up to see WW in about 2 weeks. Pretty nervous, not entirely sure how its going to go. She's been texting me every now and then about when I'll be there, and if we can swap dogs for a few nights. Honestly it feels like were co-parenting dogs. She wants our Shepherd for a couple nights and I'll be taking our Golden from her for the same days. Is it weird that I don't know if I want her to take him? Not because of her, but because of OM? I feel like he's MY dog, not OM's...I don't want OM to even touch my dog, to even try and be friendly with him...because its MINE. Also because she abandoned us....why should she get to play with him like everything is fine and then go back to her life with OM?
- Besides a few texts here and there about my visit up there, we've both gone pretty dark, NC. There's really nothing to say. She did post something interesting on her blog the other day, but my IC quickly shot me down.
WW said "I saw a picture of you and almost cried. I had to distract myself. Your smile. Your laugh."
I told this to IC and she just said...yes in that second WW was thinking about you, but what about all the other hours in the day? How many times have you cried over her?
^^ point taken. As hard as it is, I try not to read into those things anymore. Because there really is nothing left to say to WW. NC is getting easier, only because until she gives up her current life style, what else can I say to her?
Nervous about seeing her, nervous about how its gonna go, what were gonna say, how I'm gonna feel...
Hi TLEE, you're sounding much better my friend - pleased to read about work and the interior designer....good for you!
I would urge a little caution with the online dating. Many on this forum give it a try and many realise they are not ready. I think the saying - hurt people hurt people - is important here. So, my advice would be keep it light and fun. Keep the emphasis on making new friends and be honest and authentic about where you are at with things.
I think the advice from your IC is good. Detachment is partly about not experiencing such highs and lows linked to what our WAS is saying and doing. ..
Take care xx
Great to hear that you are ok TLEE.
As Toots says, the online dating is a bit early, go out with mates and chat with women but keep your it there for now, frankly it'll just be a rebound relationship if you take it anywhere and you know where they end up.
What I don't understand is why you are nervous about seeing your W?
Run through some scenarios in your head so you are ready but don't waste too much time hear as things rarely pan out as you expect.
WRT the dogs, that's a tricky one, give it some thought and make a decision, it'll be the right one so stick to it. Dogs are loyal to their master's and continue to be so regardless of what anyone else does, trust them, they aren't going to turn round and say OM is better than you, are they? 😀.
Remain calm regardless of what happens and act as if you are doing really well and enjoying life. Don't tell her anything (or very little) about what you've been up to but show interest and really listen to her, have lots of questions ready but keep them light, like you would chatting with an acquaintance.
Be sure of your boundaries as to what you consider OK to discuss and be prepared to enforce them if necessary.
It's not going to be the last conversation you have with her and it's not the most important one, it's just another getting together, nothing more, so don't build up into a big thing,
You are an improved you now, let that shine through by being in control.
If things start to get out of control, walk away before they really do and in any case ensure you finish the time together first and maybe a little premature too, it'll set her thinking that you are different which is all you are trying to achieve.
Good luck, you'll ace it!
So, so glad to hear you are doing better, TLEE. It sounds like you are really starting to move into the acceptance phase, and starting to breathe fresh air again?
I think it's ok to day dream about more mature partners, people that will share your goals and value you, and to even enjoy a little female company. You gotta have flowers in you before you can feel butterflies though
Happy to see you posting, be well!
Glad to hear that you're doing better.
RE: online dating. I would advise against it. You moved from one marriage, immediately into a relationship with your W. Instead of dating another woman, I believe you need to date yourself. Learn to be ok with yourself. Learn what you want. Make yourself happy. Throughout this, you've struggled with being alone, so take that on. Because frankly, you aren't ready -- especially if you keep comparing them to your W.
Build yourself, build your friends, build your outside activities. Companionship can come later.
Give us an update, TLEE. How goes the ups and downs, how are you doing this week? Dating yourself at all yet?
C, Z, Sotto (new name toots?)- Yes, I do agree with you all. "Dating myself" is probably the best way to go. Its a constant struggle because I crave and miss the attention from a woman. I find even just the smallest flirt from someone makes me smile because I havent seen that for so long. But as sotto said, hurt people hurt people. just a difficult situation
Beagley- I think thats interesting that you don't think I should go into this with a mindset of this is the last conversation I will have so lay it all out there. My IC actually says the opposite- treat this like it is the last conversation you have, say what you need to say for closure for myself because WW may never give that to me. But I'm torn between whats the best way to go. I think you both have valid points. Do I think this is the last time I will talk to her? no. should i treat it as such though since I am trying to move on? Idk...Thoughts?
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As for everything else, things have been ok. Im actually meeting with the decorator shortly to go over some things. I cant wait to get new stuff and finally not live completely like a single bachelor.
I am seeing WW on Thursday and then Friday and then I don't know. Im in her area, and she actually wanted to meet up yesterday to see the dogs real quick but i just didnt have time. Strange how things are now...sent me a couple weird text messages asking if I'm not seeing her yesterday because I'm avoiding her.
Also told me that she's in a weird mood because her and "roommate" are arguing and are constantly on different sides of the spectrum on how they handle things i.e. money, the way she "handles?" me, her wanting our dog to stay the night at their apartment...
I didnt say anything because...what am i even supposed to say to that. I wish they argue so much they go insane.
So were meeting on Thursday quickly to swap dogs, then Friday night to go out to dinner and what not. Still nervous, still anxious...trying to move on but seeing her just brings back all these feelings again..
"I wish they argue so much they go insane" LMAO
From over here, your wife still looks to be a very immature and dependent personality. A roommate... Shouldn't either be offering opinions on how to handle you or her money. A bf, still even. If she is soliciting or taking such advice, I would think she is still a little girl with her hand out asking someone to lead her through her life. But hey, good news is now she's realizing that can be the source of arguments people besides you!
If you were asking for thoughts on your first question, mine is, what haven't you already laid out for her? If it's not new? She doesn't need to hear it again. If saying it, writing it the first time didn't bring you closer, saying it or writing it the second time probably still won't. You're just going to have to look at another reaction you probably don't want to see or hear. Save yourself the pain. I think DR means not pursuing, and I have a feeling you're laying it all out the way you think you want to, it is going to be pursuit.
And she is with another man, so double no.
I think you will serve yourself, and any chance of reconciling your marriage, by being you who has excepted her actions and is moving on with his life. Friendly, lighthouse, rock, whatever. Let her start a R talk if she wants to. Just enjoy the time with her however you can and keep your dignity in tact.
I'm going to be a friend for a second - these are the voices that keep me strong:
TLEE, you loved her, and that is OK. You did more than most men would. She is running around lost, she has hurt you numerous times, and she is with another man. Why are you getting yourself so twisted up over this? How can you possibly think about pursuing her after all of that? Let her go, let her be the one to come crawling back to you. if she doesn't, it is her loss, and that is the biggest thing you need to show her when you see her. Go heal from this, and find a lady who knows how to value you.
You and me have a bad habit of trying to polish turds, calling things wonderful and magical when it was in fact held together by duct tape, strong and mostly our energies. I am not saying your WAW is a turd, but the situation definitely is.
What will you really get out of laying it all out there - one more time - that the first ten times haven't given you? It's not a smart ass question, what do you think is different now, what is she going to hear that is going to be new and different? What are you going to have to hold, to inspire any trust, even if she does say "ok, TLEE, yeah." You guys have done that. Why would this time be different? You lead her back like a pouty nervous little girl, she takes your hand for a while, then runs away again.
If she was sitting in your living room right now, and the day after, and the day after, how would you really feel?
Z is right!
What left is there for you to say? Do you really want her to remember the last time she sees you(if that will be the case) as you once again groveling to her? Cause regardless of how cool you play it that will be her reality and her "feeling". Why are you going to dinner with her? I'm afraid that afterwords you will be a mess again (been there done that & got the scars to prove it).
Best of luck.
In the note above indicating you should NOT go in with a "this is the last conversation I will have with my W" was because as others have said above if you think this way there is a very big chance (because you'll try to cram too much into the conversation) that you will either appear to, or you will, be in pursuit mode and that's a very bad thing.
If your IC isn't a DB one, you might want to consider changing, or giving them the benefit of the doubt it could be that he/she incorrectly interpreted something you said. Either way it's something you should challenge with them in your next session.
Some of the things you've said indicate your wife is potentially trying to cake eat perhaps because she senses you are close to pursuit mode and she's going to take advantage of you then run away.
So be very guarded as she needs to prove to you through consistent actions that she's being sincere, otherwise it is simply her controlling you so that she has the best of both worlds OM and you. Remember, don't believe 100% of what she says and only 50% of what she does.