Careless in our summer clothes
Splashing around in the muck and the mire
Careless in our summer clothes
Splashing around in the muck and the mire
Fell asleep with stains
Cake deep in the knees
What a pain
Now hang me up to dry
You wrung me out
Too, too, too many times
Now hang me up to dry
I'm pearly like the white
Wh-whites of your eyes
All mixed up in the wash
Hot water bleeding our colors
All mixed up in the wash
Hot water bleeding our colors
Now hang me up to dry
You wrung me out
Too, too, too many times
Now hang me up to dry
I'm pearly like the white
Wh-whites of your eyes
Previous threads that I'm too lazy to link to:
Separated, now what? WAH shut himself away for two weeks, acted like he wanted to work on our M after BD at counselor. Maybe.
Separation turning bad H went away, got colder and angrier with our limited contact. Friend of his contacted me, and asked me to fly up, and we started building a bridge home.
Turn around? H came home, initially all over the place and hostile. Puts ring on in a week, everything starts looking really great.
Navigating old ruts Hard DR work. I worked on my changes, H alternately seemed to try very hard and alternately started playing a lot of head games, eroding my sense of self. Worse than the year prior to BD.
I want it all, all right now. Feeling increasingly frustrated, I started this one - as with the last one - with the changes I needed to make it letting my H just do him. Well, one night I called him on his accountability for something he'd promised, and he became physically violent. No remorse. In fact, partied a bunch using my cc. Finally confronted, and he basically told me he didn't care anymore. A day after telling me how lucky he was to have me in his life.
Reflecting & Grieving Me questioning everything I thought I knew about him. Everyone's S here does some super crazy nasty stuff, but they're generally consistent about it. I am reeling.
Almost there - wanting it to be over, for him to initiate D papers. He did. I realized how sneaky hope was and despite everything I was coming to understand about our abusive cycle, I still wanted him to fulfill a fairy tale ending where he stepped up for once and I didn't go to him trying to mend our R.
How long since you've had contact?
IDK what to say, really. The only thing left for us is increasing amounts of NC. I'd thought of going to the hearing to protest, but I just want to be done.
I'd thought of calling him and asking him why he didn't sign the D papers while he was there, only the paperwork to get it rolling with the paralegal he hired. Told her I had to sign the D docs first. Why on earth? It's an answer I don't need.
Realized it didn't matter what game this was. It is a game and I am worth more than games and if H wanted to change and be in this M, I needed more that games to play with him to get there. Especially with a guy who may have once loved me but definitely used and abused me because I was so willing to make excuses, concessions and play games to keep all those high highs going.
"Z, the settlement check only enabled me to not be here when I didn't want to be anymore." - said King Charming when I asked him was this sabotage, how much that check he picked up three days after that physical fight had to do with this. "Z, you don't have to sign these papers if you don't want to I'm not trying to force you...but yes, I intend to sleep with others and go enjoy my life."
I'm still in shock, a month later. I really believed everything he'd said about being 'all in' and wanting to work so hard for our M when he came home, so this was devastating for me, that it all turned so ugly so quickly. He didn't need to put his wedding ring back on - an hour after I told him I wanted kids. He didn't need to pretend if he just wanted a roof over his head until he settled his case. I am deeply angry and can't imagine forgiveness right now. I do hope to get there when I'm ready.
But I'm trying tapping techniques to process and build some new train tracks in my head in the meantime.
Real Me - 6 days ago. He jerked me around a bunch about how I'd need to pay fees (that wasn't what we agreed to.) Via text he hit at me from every angle -
"then you will be served"
"I'm tired of trying to explain your fears to you, Z"
"Stop being afraid, I'm not trying to hurt you"
"You never would let me lead"
"See? it still feels like we're married"
And I sorted it out with his paralegal, he agreed to pay after all. Wrote him a quick email notifying him I'd go sign on Mon and he'd have his divorce in 30 days. He wrote back saying "My divorce? you're the one who doesn't feel safe with me and it's my divorce?" I unloaded a big letter, told him he had room to turn this around, but it was absolutely his divorce until he wanted to take any responsibility for what happened and act like a H.
No response and I have enjoyed the silence.
So you spoke of goals the other day. Have you made any headway with figuring out what you would like to try for fun?
I find myself at 40 and I don't have any aspirations, no dreams and a juvenile sense of what happiness is supposed to be. I have never placed myself that much in a spotlight to focus on before, i always had someone else to focus my attention and devotion to.
So Zelda, let's start brain storming, what will be something you would like to try? Do you like to cook, bake, run, bike, fish, sing, act, play a new instrument...ever want to write, paint, draw or build. This is not easy to come up with something to try. I think a goal of trying Something new this week would be a good idea...doesn't matter how big or small. Whatd'ya say?
I have just decided im going to try to cook a nice meal for Saturday night. It is actually my 17th anniversary and I just realized in had not planned anything...yikes (would have gotten something nice in the past, but I donrnknow if it would come off as trying to buy affection)
Z I can 'hear' the pain in your voice.
What about these lyrics from the same group if I'm not mistaken:
"Let's go on treasure hunts, to sails of the seven seas, you're ripping my map apart, I'm not even hard to please"
Maybe it's time to go dark to any and all comm w him for a bit, even if he's trying to initiate it. You're allowing him to rip your map apart.
You also referenced the Stockdale paradox in another thread. Don't lose sight of the overall goal: your survival.
Zephyr,
Yes, aerial yoga this week. And a funeral and chNce to be with family. Good luck on your meal! I'm glad you are taking care of yourself.
Real:
Indeed, I don't think I will need to speak to him again. Ever.
Er...aerial yoga? Do tell...
I'll let you know tonight after I find out.
I thought I was done hurting and here I sit again crying, wondering how he could have done this if he loved me. It's like a bottomless pit of grief. I feel so incredibly used and thrown away like I was worth nothing to him. He was everything to me.
3 years I stood by him while he was growing bones back together. The way he pushed me away last year. Only to come back (appease friends and family who told him to work for his M?) the pretty things he said, only to erupt like he did. Did the DR work I did make a difference at all or had he planned to 'escape' (his word for that trip, not mine) so he could come home and appease me until he could leave for good?
Before he came back he voiced concern over living together when he came back into town, "IDK Z, if I can't handle something and I blow up, that's it for our M." He saw himself doing this. He meant to scare me that night. They say intimidation is never about lack of control. No remorse. Day he picked that check up he was happy to D. Started driving and functioning again the day after that. Limp disappeared, he left his cane at home before he moved out. Wasn't using it when we met at breakfast. 2 weeks later, just happy to be out living his life he said.
Will he ever regret or think of anything?
Does Cymbalta/Oxy/ambien explain this?
You guys have said I'm demonizing him but everything I believed in about his kindness and who he was, his depth, and how he adored me and loved people - like it was dry erased and he let me see what was under it, without the slightest feeling or emotion in any direction.
My friend says the base of recovery is understanding that love is a drug, there was nothing special in falling for a tall 'mysterious' garden variety ahole. No more romanticizing him or the past. Forget all the seemingly kind and wonderful parts of him. He carried a strange darkness and it reared its ugly head, she said it's not about you, Z.
But I think that is what I struggle with today. His actions were his, his choices had nothing to do with me...I wasn't consequential in any way to him in the end.
I keep tapping, yes, yes, I love and accept myself...I think it is actually working thst Eft stuff, but this still blows my mind, every bit of it.
Well, it is official. The organization I am losing one of my jobs very soon. I knew this was coming, and it was three days before the fight that ended all fights that I told my husband I might need him to be there for me.
I want to send him irrational hate mail right now.
Sorry to hear Z.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I'll either quit my job soon, or get fired one. Need to talk to my H about the situation (as it effects both of us
If my job goes away), who apparently, doesn't want to talk to me as we are on day 10 of NC.
I'm resisting the urge to majorily, majorily lash out.
This is very hard. And I know how the mind blown feels. I wanted to give you. A hug. And commend you on your choice of song. <3
He doesn't deserve anything from you right now. Not even hate. Because hate is an energy as well- and that would be giving him your energy.
The only person that deserves your energy right now is you, and with all these waves coming in at once your tank is low. What can you do to conserve and even regain energy for the next several days? Anybody you can stay with, or have stay with you? Any place you could go? Any thing out of the ordinary?
You're on fumes and you have to recharge.
Zelda, I haven't followed your thread since the beginning but I've been impressed with your posts and have been trying to catch up. Tough road.
I read a really interesting article about abuse a few weeks ago and posted on it. It talked about how resentment was the origin of abuse.
Basically when we feel hurt by someone else we can't see past our own pain, and we can lash out at the people we think are hurting us. Maybe it is to try to get them to realize "hey, you're hurting me, stop it!" At it's best it can be communication, at it's worse it is abusive and controlling.
But it all boils down to SKILLS.
Look, here on DB we typically don't believe there are good and bad marriages. That they're either meant to be or not. We believe that there are marriages, and that they can be good or bad depending on the behavior of the couple. A bad M can be turned around by acting differently, the feelings will follow. Marriage isn't a game of LUCK, it is a game of SKILLS.
Same thing with individual behavior. Some people have the SKILLS to communicate pain, some don't. Your STBX isn't an abusive Ahole. Or he may be at the moment, but it isn't some Ahole gene that he inherited. Nor were you wrong about him, and everything he is was a lie. He simply doesn't have the skills to navigate through the pain of your M.
So you have a choice. You can see his post BD behavior and make him the bad guy. Rewrite your own history. Shun him and say you're better off. Be angry that you were stuck with someone so terrible. Heck, why not post a history of his childhood traumas and how you think it gave him psychological problems. Let's all post about what personality disorders he might have. I hate to say it, but I see this a lot on here and I'm not a fan of going down this road.
Or you can see him as the man you loved, who got hurt real bad, and didn't have the skills to deal with it effectively. Yes, it stinks that because you were partnered his ineffectiveness hurt you deeply. But he didn't mean to, he just didn't know a better way. Remember what I said about how when you're hurt it's easy to lash out at the other person? Well, now's your chance to transcend that cycle. Don't stoop to the level of the choice I described above. Your STBX is a good guy in a bad spot. Granted, if he allows those behaviors to become long term habits and lifestyles then it's ok to say you don't want any of that in your life...but do it with compassion for one you loved, not resentment for one that let you down. Please. For your sake.
*I* was in pain during my M and was resentful, responding in controlling and abusive ways for a while. I recognized that's now who I am deep inside, not what I want to be in the future, and that I wanted my next partner to feel the love I had, not a reflection of the pain I felt. Now I think I will bring a lot to the table. SAME PERSON. My STBX gave up on me. We would've had another 40 years together perhaps. But she decided I was a Ahole. Just like so many others.
I think WAS's and LBS's are wearing different shoes, but they both can fall victim to this mindset. It's ok and necessary to go through an anger stage, but please breath deep and decide who you want to be. Which outlook mirrors your spiritual self and deep beliefs? You won't always feel that way initially, but if you keep letting the anger go and praying for compassion, you might not only feel better, it might be a step towards the personal growth you are striving for.
Cheers Z and good to get to know you. Wish it had been over a company potluck but I guess devastating life crises will serve just as well
All, thank you for stopping by. I'll get back with you in a second.
I found a letter from six months of dating my H that has absolutely got me sick with the way I stuck my head in the sand, even that early. I wrote him, where I tried to explain how upset/confused I was with chats I'd found on his computer with an 'old friend'. I'd forgotten all about it until tonight. My H was talking/flirting with a woman he knew from home state - their conversation over the course of the SAME month he was starting to talk about marriage with me - and my notes in the original transcript show that he was 'all about' us and spending all kinds of really loving committed time with me during:
H: 'You know A, that kiss in the parking lot wasn't accidental. (I couldn't tell what month it referenced - before we started dating or a month before when he was visiting.)
a: "H, you deserve better than her (me, Z)."
____
"Is Z your ex yet?"
"No, she's going through too much now."
-------
h: "I just wonder about those fish in the sea, would dating more give me more perspective?" (FOR SIX YEARS HE'S HAD THIS IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND - He mentioned it eagerly during BD)
A: "Just keep her guessing. Make her work for you a bit more."
-----------
(a week goes by)
H: I was talking about proposing with her, but I'm not sure."
A: "You know she never did anything nice for you, but relax, it's who you guys are. Sounds like you're both insecure about each other's happiness."
----------------
(a few days letter)
H: she drives me crazy, but I think we could be so happy together. (general complaining about me, but tells A that he rarely mentions the good things about me to her either.) "I never respond to Z's IMs. Idk why. I take two steps back, she takes three toward me and then falls off the planet, it's ridiculous."
(no real response from A.)
-----------------
(week and a half later)
H: "Z wrote me an awesome love note and cleaned my whole place!"
-----------
(five days later)
H: writes general flirty 'hey sunshine' intro and they have light chat. He starts getting rather prying into her bisexual practices. "Come on A, you can tell me, we don't know any of the same people."
A: no, I'd rather not.
H: A, come on...
So, when I talked to H about this six years ago, he minimized everything, said he was just polling her bc my previous 'open' R had made him curious. And I bought it hook line and sinker and though, oh, that makes sense. H professed his love, he didn't mean to hurt me, that stuff about 'is she your ex yet?' was all taken out of context...and I shut the door on it and didn't think about it again. I was so happy to know it meant nothing. In the letter I wrote him about all of this, I quote,
"I worry that this kind of history is repeating itself and I would never know. That when I'm not around you're putting energy into relationships that will only detract from ours."
I shouldn't have let this be a minimal thing I excused because he was incredibly loving with me and I felt those high highs.
Zues, I want to read your post again tomorrow when I'm not all charged up from this recent re-read - but Idk if anymore I can say H was a good guy. I loved him intensely and made a LOT of excuses - from six months in for this ^ B.S. He had his good sides, but I chose to look the other way and pretend his bad sides were my problem or not that big of a deal - well before he was hurt. I don't want to look at things from a sweet and understanding spot, I've been down that road. I just want to be honest now. And I'll agree, we don't need to label him or his traumas to do that, but I am putting my compassionate rose colored glasses down.
Looking forward to getting to know you, also and getting caught up with you. It means a lot that you, Real and Zephyr have put in the time to hang out with me.
Calibri - thanks for checking in. I'm sorry you continue to be aggravated - you know the drill, detach, yeah? (HA I am one to talk)
Real - I am afraid of wearing out my friends and family, honestly. I talk as much as I can to not do so but get some of this out. I'm on the way to a funeral tomorrow morning. I applied for a major org in my city tonight that has some promise in matching job descriptions, slightly up from lateral move.
Wow. That STINKS. And I think putting things down for 24 hours and revisiting makes sense.
I will tell you a story about my NEAR EA. It was 2011, and we had just had our 3rd child. Our M had been bad for years. I felt so neglected, unappreciated, and lonely. We weren't meeting ANY of each other's needs, emotional or physical. We lived separate lives, and did our own things to endure the isolation. I didn't feel she liked me, admired me, or understood me. I told my friend that I felt single, only I couldn't ever date again and had to pay 100% of my income in child support.
Suddenly I was promoted to manager, and at the age of 31 I had a bunch of 24-28 year olds working for me. Half female. They all looked up to me because I was very good at what I did, the man on campus. I was funny. I was successful. They needed my help to be successful and appreciated what I did for them. One woman on my team seemed to really like me, and that's when it began.
I felt so alive when she came around. When she laughed at my jokes I felt so good about myself. I started looking forward to seeing her every day. I started working out more often and trying to dress better. I acted like "friendly co-workers". Coworkers talk about their weekends, right? Coworkers swap CDs to listen to, right? Hmmm...that was when I knew I was in the red zone. NOTE- I never did or said anything that would have betrayed my thoughts. The woman never even knew. But *I* knew. And I knew it was wrong. But I couldn't snap myself out of it. This went on for 2-3 months.
Finally I felt I needed to take desperate measures. I told my W, my boss, and the female employee the struggle I was having all in the same day. I said I would resign my position if I needed to, do whatever it took, but my M came first, and I couldn't stand by and pretend everything was ok.
Given the situation I still feel I handled it the best I could. I wish I was beyond temptation, but I am human.
How easy would it have been for me to have had a few flirty "harmless" exchanges with her? How easy would it have been for me to sweep it under the table had my W asked me about it?
I don't know. But I tell you this. There's not a man around that's more committed to M. There's not a man around that loved his W more than me. There's not a man around that's more determined to do everything I can to grow stronger. And though at this point I'm almost hopeful my STBX doesn't change her mind because it would be easier to get a "re-do" on finding a partner than trying to deal with the mess we have and accepting that my STBX's shortcomings will always be a part of my life...I still intend to let time pass, and be open to what life brings. Because I believe in M that much.
Yet I'm the same species as your H. I too was tempted. I too have sinned in my heart, and there were almost indubidably moments that would've betrayed that to my STBX that knew me so well. I too have a "personality disorder". I too treated my STBX poorly.
We're all human. That's all I'm saying.
I keep thinking of the book "there are no bad dogs". It says there are poorly trained dogs. There are misunderstood dogs. But there are no "bad dogs".
Listen- men are pigs in some ways, we can be selfish, perverted, and insensitive...but we are also big stupid animals that can be loyal, loving, protective, and devoted.
Yes, people are responsible for their behavior. And at some point you have to set boundaries. Maybe even closing the door to the possibility of R in some situations.
But pay attention to how many LBS's declare they were the victim all along and they are better off without their dud of an WAS.
In conclusion, my idea of a W only a fool would leave would be one that has this view of the men in their lives, that of "He was a good guy, I loved him a lot, it's too bad that man couldn't manage his emotions and act maturely because I have boundaries and can't be treated this way...I guess I have to let go." Those that judge, condemn, resent, and reject with attitude...well, I wouldn't feel safe around those types because I'd feel like I can't win and no matter how hard I try I'm just another dumb guy that would probably end up getting punted at some point.
PS- while my STBX has treated me terribly during the M and since BD, I feel that way towards her. "We're both good people, both had a lot of love, both meant well. I loved her. Hopefully we can both do better going forward, if not at least we know it was real while it lasted and we both cared and tried as long as possible. Too bad we didn't have the tools to make it work, too bad she couldn't find an alternative other than walking. Good luck STBX and take care kid." That comes from my spiritual self. Doesn't mean I want to be friends with her. I have boundaries. But that's how I feel more and more.
PS- just posted *TWO* posts on Smothy's thread back to back, you might have already read one from a few weeks ago, but please check them out. Thanks!
ZuEs, part of my journey now is understanding that there may be "no bad dogs" but if one bites my hand repeatedly, to call it what is, instead of romanticizing it. That I'm not responsible for providing skills to my H when he just wants to blame me and find other women to make him happy.
The difference between what you shared with me is that you cared about your M and stopped before it could go further. That exchange I posted was from the same month my STBX was telling me we'd be together forever, showing a completely different side of his heart to a bartender he'd attempted to hook up with once.
Your W that a fool woulx have to leave - that was me when he came back to me. I told him I understoid he did what made sense to him and I wouldn't let myself be angry about it, they were his choices. And he put in his ring,
Some here on this board don't get to stages of anger or resentment. I'm not going to hold on to it forever but I'm not going to squash it all down and say I don't feel deeply violated and used by someone I trusted.
Agreed. Validate your feelings. Work through them.
And you're right. If a dog bites your hand you shouldn't try to pet it again unless you have reason to show that it has changed.
But if a dog bit you you probably wouldn't be angry at it.
Trust me...I get it. The betrayal of marital vows to me is the most destructive choice that anyone could make. And when you are that hurt, betrayed, and devastated, it is natural to feel angry at the one that made that decision. My IC says "Anger is just pain transformed into a feeling easier to handle". So yes, this is necessary to deal with an overwhelming amount of emotion.
I guess what I'm saying is just recognize that's what's going on, that you're working through emotions. Don't believe everything they tell you is "true". Your emotions are true. His behavior is destructive, true as well. But carrying that on to "he is a bad guy, I am better off without him, good riddance"...that's where people let their emotions become the boss of them dictating your beliefs and behavior, instead of running their own ship and having their emotions work FOR them by helping them through tough situations and giving you feedback on what works and doesn't.
Wishing you the best, fellow Z.
Thank you.
paralegal says he's not returned calls or come back to sign his documents. Wondering if this is a game of chicken to him and he flinched. Or it's just not a big priority to him.
Stay detached. No R talk. Take care of yourself.
You sound a little stronger today. Is that the case?
Z
Try to detach from H motives.
Decide what you would like and stick to that. You have a Z strategy, one which works for Z. The rest does not matter Z.
Detach and go GAL.
If you want results from D decide to do the heavy lifting and sign, if you prefer not then don't!
V
Hi Z, just checking with hugs for you x JB
Hey, V. I did sign, days ago. H set up all the paperwork. Signed everything unimportant and told legal he wanted me to sign important stuff first if it all looked good. So I did and now he's not returned her calls to come in and finish it.
It's been good to be with my family during this sad time, celebrating a life well lived. H knew at breakfast that day that she was going, so it is ridiculous that he's texted my friend and cousin asking "I heard Z was going to a funeral, who's?"
But he did send me a random article yesterday on how to get a refund perhaps for a utility service - one of those things that make you go huh?
when he could've asked me directly, or offered condolences if he's so concerned about the loss in my family. I didn't bother responding.
So very weird. V, you are right, there is no point in wondering.
JB, R -
Thanks. Yes, doing ok. The usual sense of sadness and bitterness is receding and I'm getting more accepting and at peace bit by bit.
I am struggling, more so than I'd wanted to think. I was on a plane today home from funeral and the poor unfortunate man next to me had to endure me crying my eyes out into the window. Silent as I could be but I am overwhelmed.
I don't know how I can start a new career - not that I've even secured an interview yet. Laid off, scared of losing my home and credit, idk why my H hasn't signed his papers and I hate myself for hoping it means anything in particular, or why he's asking after me and sending me stupid articles. In one week so much has changed. There is nothing in his actions that says he wants to change or be with me. My dear grandmother, what a beautiful rich life she led, and I have the usual regrets of not calling more often. She was my first best friend and practically raised me through grade school.
i just feel paralyzed and I want to be a fetus for a little while. I can't afford to rest my heart or brain because I have to survive. I've never felt so sad or low and this seems like someone is asking me to climb Mt Everest after months of starvation and a broken leg.
Zelda
Peace and love I am sending to you through this board.
Hold onto this beautiful life
I love the dog reference.
You can give them chances, but when they had chances and keep biting then no. Pts.
While they might not be bad nor should you be angry, your unlikely to give future chances untill, some major changes happen.
Your goal is change your end.
Z,
no advice to offer just know that there's a fellow passenger on the SS Titanic with you. you are not alone. praying for you!
Hi Z when you are ready I have alcohol, chocolate, and any other calorie laden, traditional comfort inducing item to make us "Hilariously pleased" while you go through this chit time!!!. Maybe V could join us, that reminds me Ice-cream, not sure what flavour though????? Thinking of your sweetpea xxx loves JB
I'm so sorry for all you're going through at the moment! Have not much to say, but please just take one moment at the time and know that there are many here on the board for you..
Please take care, I've got my fingers crossed for you! Big hug!!
I'm so sorry for all you're going through at the moment! Have not much to say, but please just take one moment at the time and know that there are many here on the board for you..
Please take care, I've got my fingers crossed for you! Big hug!!
I found a draft of written H a few weeks after he came back claiming to be all in. About my hopes and confidence in us. It was so sweet. I don't know why I didn't send it. One of his fears he kept repeating in last six months was that I cared more about R than him, I was an enemy in this respect. I tried to tell him in this letter it wasn't so, and I wanted our R to be something that supported him.
I just don't know what to believe about any of what he said or did, nothing adds up.
I am starting to doubt myself, I feel like I'm going nuts. Maybe H just lost his temper. Like he said, he didn't really throw those things at me or see me closing The front door when he slammed in into me, he said he thought I was already in the car. He admits being wrong for destroying my phone, maybe that's all he thought he really did and that's why it's ridiculous to him I said I can't feel safe.
I saw pics of him on FB this morning. I still love him. I feel so much disbelief at all of this. I looked at him and it was so hard for me to believe he's the man that acted the way I see him acting in that fight, the apathy afterward, delivery of the news he intends to sleep around. He looks like the same man who I trusted.
Do you have professional support in real life for victims of abuse? Like a helpline? They could help you parse these things. They know the patterns.
Zelda, i am so sorry that you are hurting. detaching from my wife has been the hardest thing I've ever done...and it nothing is even close. I find my brain lying to me constantly. It is sad, disappointing, frustrating...so many other feeling I cannot express. I have been cognizant of the trickery my own mind is trting and really have been trying to head things off. I am in a fight for my own life, free to be myself to love myself and to let others be who they are. I also want to feel love from the woman I desire more than anyone I've ever met...and to feel desired by her. My brain will not Accept that she does not have those same feelings for me that she once had, rather will not accept that I can't do anything to change that fact. In my young life, I have quit smoking, looking at porn, walked away from a friendship in college that was destructive to me (felt I was falling in love with her even tho she was crazy...chose my future bride over her even tho she was hundreds of miles and a couple of years away) as well as a couple of other destructive behaviors and these choices were non-issues, no second thoughts, no regrets.
I am not sure what is actually going on in our spouses heads, but this is hard and it takes time to break free. It takes lots of focus and patience and work. I know that my marriage will never work with how I interact with my wife right now. I know that I can never be truly happy with this situation. I have sought professional help with this codependency / enmeshment struggle. And of course I have found support with this here from you and ao any of these amazing people here.
From my IC, that the first step is realizing what the issue is that is really causing us harm and Then actually wanting to change it. From there it is work and work and more work. I am with Moz on this one...maybe seek out a professional councillor. I know you've said you've seen ic before...I had to drop my old one because she was really clueless about what I needed for help. The new one has been way more helpful in just two visits.
I am sending happy thoughts your way!!!
Mozza - I gave an IC but can't afford to go right now. But it's ok. I took a deep breath and moved through whatever that nonsense in my head was and am back on the ground in a good way.
Zephyr- you're doung great. I admire you, I know how tough it is living with someone and not knowing the score. Thank you for the support.
Well, H is telling folks we 'broke up' two months ago (that's a month longer than what he wrote on the paperwork and what we both know to be true) and that papers have been signed and filed. Also, not true, I verified this morning he's still not returned calls to do so.
What in the world. I know I shouldn't be trying to understand what doesn't make any sense.
Z- I really don't even know what to say to you. Just that I still read and follow your thread. Quite honestly I don't know what happened in your sitch either. I thought it was going very well. Idk.
Its so difficult to make sense of any of this but just keep writing and get it off your chest. Thinking about you Z.
Z
H is lying to suit himself. It isn't rational, there is no way to rationalise it!
Don't try.
Leave FB alone if it drives your emotions.
((((((Z)))))))
V
Seven years ago I told my H I loved him on this holiday. It's making me feel so sad, because I see this shining playful memory of us being goofy and so excited over each other. I wonder if those memories will ever find a place next to the more recent ones.
More and more I want to close this chapter even if it means me reaching out to him and prodding him to sign. How could I ever trust him? In the interest of not lying to myself anymore, there is a bit of me hoping he's paused - not out of laziness, control, or whatever else - bc he isn't sure. And that if I hang back he may for the first time in our R take the initiative to say he wants to address himself and be here. Silly girl I am. And H would return with the tools to no longer resort to verbal/emotional abuse and intimidation. I'd no longer feel like I wasn't enough for him and we'd live happily ever after.
TLEE, thanks for following. I am sorry about the downturn in your sitch. Honestly I feel like there should be a disclaimer in these boards that turn arounds are rare. It is so easy to get hopes up around messy heads.
V, thanks for keeping me on point.
In other good news, my IC will see me for nearly free until I'm employed again.
Wow, that is awesome news z!!!
Really that is great to know.
V
Z, I'm sorry I haven't been posting on your thread of late. You've been dealing with some different stuff to me and I've not felt able to add much. That and every time I am here I get Cold War Kids stuck in my head (too, too, too many times).
TLEE, thanks for following. I am sorry about the downturn in your sitch. Honestly I feel like there should be a disclaimer in these boards that turn arounds are rare. It is so easy to get hopes up around messy heads.
This is true
It always bothered me that there were so many people with marriages that didn't work out compared to the few that did on these forums. Made me question if DB was the right way to go.
I've come to realize its just the nature of this process, when things get this bad for us the chance of it surviving is slim. DB'ing just allows us to up those odds some, which is the best we can do in this situation.
It has the added benefit of saving ourselves and making quality life changes. Which in many ways is more important.
Fogg, true.
Today I find myself wondering despite my H's 'tools' and manipulation - who I was. Was I the ultra critical, unsympathetic angry person I thought I found when I started DR? Was I enabling and supporting his dependency and becoming a bigger doormat, normalizing the abuse and playing word salad for years, as I think now? Was I so miserable to be with, that he fell out of love with me - and was so suddenly cold and cruel the week his check arrived? How could I have inspired so much hatred in him?
And he still has not signed his papers.
The dynamics of M are complicated, even if you were some of those things it doesn't make the breakdown of M entirely your fault or his. When we act/react a certain way to our spouses it causes them to then react. That reaction gets another reaction from us and it spirals out of control, back and forth. This may happen over years and years with neither spouse realizing its happening. No matter what you were, or what he was, both individuals were responsible for the M and how it ended. The more important part is that your looking inside yourself and realizing how you can change. Some people blame the other and never accept their role, which is a major issue and will only cause their future relationships problems.
My W's divorce papers are shoved in the back seat of our car scattered around, a couple of the papers are even on the floor crumpled up. She has no motivation now to file them. Shes justified her interactions with OM due to us being done. The paperwork is just a technicality right now that she cares not to deal with. For the time being anyway. I still don't believe she could mentally deal with the process right now anyway. She couldn't even handle reading over a simple document explaining after school child care for our D.
I asked him today via text why he hadn't signed, after he'd contacted me to pick up things. Strange reply - thanks for interrupting me." Again, I asked him if he intended to sign. "Of course, why do you care?"
Word on the street is he's proudly saying he's spending his free time gambling a lot and is 30 pounds heavier.
I responded that we didn't need to drag this out and he could sign by the end of the week. Stayed above the baiting, I believe.
Good news, he's confirmed he will sign before the weekend.
I feel lighter and happier than I have in weeks.
Z...do you mean that and thats how you really feel or....
Im worried about you Z
TLEE, I mean that. It didn't stop me from crying a bit ago, but this is necessary for me to get on with my life.
I cry from the rage and coldness I felt, that blankness across his face, smug, shrugging, "well what are YOU going to do about it, Z?" hours after he told me how loved I was. It felt inhuman and no matter the hope I've held out, every action since has just reinforced what I felt.
People have told me that he's no longer limping or cringing in 'pain' (despite huge weight gain) or using his cane, and he's planted seeds that I cheated on him, wanted him for his money, he's happier now by himself...he's proudly telling the world his new hobby is gambling, so he has that to spend - but was insisting Id still have to support us until he could get his feet under him. I guess when I told him what was coming down the pipe for me at work, that was no longer practical.
I know he used me until he Got that check . Even the MC and his own family said so. I have two hours of a recorded convo in which he twisted and turned everything afterward the incident, when we met up, him even saying to justify what he did, "subconsciously I think you should realize how you want to be treated, Z." And him telling me he figured M is a gray area for us now and he intends to sleep around - and when I begged him not to, he said, "I can give you a week of fidelity but that's it."
This isn't a man or M to stand for. I am relieved to have the end in sight.
I think of how before BD he told me 10' away from a family reunion that I'd have to F other men if I wanted children...me crying hysterically, him stone faced playing on his phone next to me. I got myself together and we arrived at the beach house, I went in to wash up and he cornered my mom upstairs and started bawling his eyes out we'd had a fight...everyone thought I was such an angry hateful person, bc he repeated this behavior to whoever would listen and all they saw was my coldness to him when we were in the same room. We slept in the same bed for three nights and he never showed any emotion to me. It is all coming out of the woodwork now, my mom used to really feel sorry for him until we started piecing things together.
Thank you for sharing Zelda. You have been through so much and i am glad you are at a point of closure on this, it has clearly been tearing you up. You have shown great resiliancy and i am very glad you are taking a good hard look, deep inside of yourself, too.
I look forward to reading how the next chapter of 'the life of Zelda' starts.
As a good friend of mine told me,
There is nothing magical in loving an a'hole. You won't get a blue ribbon for surviving the games and trying to make something of it.
And I'm at that point.
Is he ALL bad? A sociopath? Drugged up? Inheriting his mother's mental illness?
Not saying that. I am sure he loved me and was genuinely nice to friends and family at times. I remember falling in love, the things he built me, his face when Id surprise him with something nice, what he looked like that first night in the hospital, the first time the dog crawled up in his bed, our wedding, honeymoon, the day we closed on the house.
I also remember what he looked like throwing things at me, punching things around me, telling me flatly to get my chit together if I cried and he didn't wNt to hear it. Withholding affection, days of silent treatment. I remember discovering his texts and msgs to exes and women he complained to about me - since the beginning. The victim behavior, losing jobs, well before the accident. Calibri said it, he showed me who he was and I saw what I wanted to - H wasn't the issue.
I just feel like I'm coming free. It's a good feeling, to actually not care about saving this anymore and being ready for my next chapter.
Not saying that. I am sure he loved me and was genuinely nice to friends and family at times. I remember falling in love, the things he built me, his face when Id surprise him with something nice, what he looked like that first night in the hospital, the first time the dog crawled up in his bed, our wedding, honeymoon, the day we closed on the house.
I also remember what he looked like throwing things at me, punching things around me, telling me flatly to get my chit together if I cried and he didn't wNt to hear it. Withholding affection.
This hits home so much for me. Quite honestly I feel that these are the things my W would say about me. Almost exactly what I feel her words are. I know Ive wrote this before about the things I did and how i can relate to your H. I cant blame you for feeling this way Z, the coming free. You have been through so much with him, and as much as I want to sit here and say work on it, keep going, sometimes thats just not enough....especially if his behavior isn't changing.
I cant blame my W for leaving.. and it hurts me to say that. And looking from the outside in now, seeing your struggle with your H who still hasn't changed only makes me see just how awful this behavior is. Im so sorry Z.
TLEE,
I doubt you made her feel like your emotions and actions were her fault and played games about it. You provided. This is different - don't beat yourself up.
Z
It's good news if he does, it's good news if he does not.
It's bad news if he does, it's bad news if he doesn't
Expect all of the above
V
Doing a GAL, hanging out with a gf who was very supportive of DR - and she recounts how last summer STBX demanded that "stop talking to my W you have no right to put ideas in her head, stay away from her..."
Doing a GAL, hanging out with a gf who was very supportive of DR - and she recounts how last summer STBX demanded that "stop talking to my W you have no right to put ideas in her head, stay away from her..."
Stop having thoughts of your own, please............
And as for ideas! Well, none of that.
V
I kept saying STBX wasn't an abuser bc he never tried to isolate me...but that was bc he never told ME who I couldn't talk to, he was working the other angles, this just creeps me out. We'd spent the day in a boat with these friends and he texted my friend this a day later.
H won't sign.
We got into a fight today and I relented and agreed to let him pick up his tools and things this weekend before he signed. He said he would but wouldn't say when.
He sent my mother a Happy Mothers Day text the and hour he was telling me "f'ing chit you piss me off...your moronic fears...I'm trying to be kind to you..."
It was so upsetting. And he talked one of my besties today into giving him a tour of her workplace which is a cool thing but she was like WTF.
Sorry to hear that stbxh is being, what boils down to, juvinile. It sounds as if he is just trying to get a rise out of you or punish you for all of your 'transgressions'. I wish for your sake this was over.
Since he is dragging this out for whateve his reason (hell, he may not even know)...Ask yourself, 'what would I do tonight if he had actually signed those papers?' Whatever your answer...that is EXACTLY what I would do....whatever the 'EFF you want to do.
Start writing that Next chapter, tonight!
(((Zelda)))
Zel, what kind of help are you getting IRL? Given the history of physical violence, I get a bit concerned for you when I read how he's trying to control you and those around you. Juvenile is one way to describe it, but creepy and manipulative is another (and I'm not one to label other people's partners). Just take care of yourself, ok?
IRL? What's that?
I keep my doors locked and don't plan to be alone with him.
Zephyr, I will continue doing my thing. Eventually I can have him served if that's what I need to do. Thanks
Have an IC appt next week. And close friends and family.
And are you being open about things with them?
Hell yes. I dropped the DR policy of keeping details to myself after I realized what a creep he was and we would not be back together. Plus it helps to buffer against his victim cries and acts.
I'm good, TLEE. Joined a D support group at a mega church (I've yet to tell them I'm an agnostic heathen) and that is a help. Lots of GAL, getting on with my life. H is still not getting his things or signing.
Why does a hostile spouse drag things out when there is no argument over the tangibles, no kids and no desire to work things out?
Sorry I've droped off board - trying to put more energy into the practical urgencies of life lately and am a bit too cynical to contribute much of anything good
Z
Sometimes it's like that. And since H has lost control he may do anything to get it back.
It is a very dangerous time, be very careful of yourself. Extraordinary careful, please, we need your wise counsel. We need you safe.
Be safe
V
Z
I am with you gf listening. Keep posting your stuff
V
General update:
I look amazing in my underwear right now.
Other things to be grateful for:
Decided to be courageous and not pursue corp job to replace one I lost. Doing the hippie thing, getting a room ready for air bnb, maybe Uber. Had a good day finishing a commissioned piece I've been sitting on forever and am taking in a new group to coach. I want to build my business giving private art lessons to kids and adults, take on consulting and grant writing work. I am excited. I know I will be fine, perhaps be able to make as much or more as I was before. It will be a different kind of stress. I'm ready. I feel free in so many ways.
STBX, I never needed you as badly as I thought. For someone who claimed I didn't pay his bills, have to tell you, I'm spending about 2 grand less each month without you here. It's a miracle. I am pursuing the dream I thought was years away. I wanted kids, but now - I don't fret over needing 8-5 job for that health ins. And I don't miss your breakfasts and hugs as much as I *miss* your irrational statements, passive aggressive attacks (most recent - "I am shocked at my ability to not call you names right now" amid spew with other F bombs- yes, I'm very impressed with this basic maturity also), and I don't miss you throwing our R, engagement and M up as 'why are we even here' every time you felt like I was not someone worth dealing with or showing consideration to. I don't miss your twisting, manipulation, and feeling like I was being pushed away or taken for granted. I hope you're eating entire boxes of donuts and spending your nights sitting at bars guzzling beer and imagining the bartender thinks you're cool. It is what makes you happy - and re your last text to me - that I'm delusional and you're so much better off without me - well, it's nice to agree on something.
He asked me today to come get more things this weekend. No, not all. He has no ability, no friends to help him move, no place to store...I offered if I could secure help...told him I'd appreciate his help with closure, and he changed subject to a book he thinks is here. Never acknowledged.
I'm over this. I've asked a 3rd party to step in and assist with closing this up, STBX says he says he just wants to be free - but tells me he can't because, can't because...I am tired of feeling like a toy some big cruel cat is batting around for its own amusement.
Well Z I am glad that he is making it easier for u to move on. Really I am glad.
I am.excited for you to hear that you are teaching and taking commissions! It is totally awesome. Wish you were closer I'd love for my boys to Take lessons from you.
I am so excited for you at your strength and furvur to make a better life!
General update:
I look amazing in my underwear right now.
Go you! You don't know how many times I've thought the same thing and talked myself out of sending a selfie to you know who.
I'm having boudoir photos done as a late birthday gift to myself. Someone said, "too bad your H won't see them." Eh, who says he won't? I'm doing it for me, and they're going to be amazing hanging on my wall.
BAM
Nice, ladies
Is it hot in here or is just me? 3 girls talking about themselves in underwear and boudoir photos? *
But really, I am happy for you Z. You sound like you are really moving forward and have realized that his behavior lately is just....not going to work. Really taking charge of your life. Keep your head up Z.
First time in a while, I am starting to have a down day, where I just miss him.just recalled three or four authentic, happy memories. It is hard to believe that things came to be the way they did.and it was an interesting experience, to just enjoy the memory and feel a little bit of love, without such a strong layer of bitterness over the top of it. there so many ways to feel sadness.
...Z, Im so sorry. This sounded like a really honest post and it was actually kinda hard to read...I hope you have a better day tomorrow, really. Keep your head up and drive on. He doesnt deserve to be with someone as awesome as you. Praying for you Z
Friends, curious on your read on what is going on. It shouldn't matter if I am focused on me, but I think about it.
This weekend my H made a surprise visit to pick up 90% of his things and left half a carload, indefinitely. I was out. My roommate handled him, and said he was poking around in the back looking into the house before he realized he was home. Asked my roommate questions about things he saw on the porch that we'd talked about before he left and he really had answers for...I just don't get it. Walked into the house and bedrooms to poke around.
There has been NC with me and I am glad for it. I wish he would sign papers and IDK why on earth he hasn't.
The theories that keep surfacing are these:
STBX is a ship without a rudder and will not pick up his back foot (closing this sitch up) until he knows where he is placing it.
STBX is dragging this out to be spiteful and isn't dealing well with his emotions. Enjoying his control on this sitch. Knows our M was not 'just paperwork' to me and that I am upset my him 'living his life' while we are still M.
STBX is inheriting his mother's early onset dementia of personality - hallmarks odd, unbalanced behavior, apathy, aggression/violence, inability to reason, promiscuity, selfishness. These are also hallmarks of just being an a$$. But I'm concerned - eight months after we were married I'd asked him if we could talk about the meds he was on and getting screened for this disease, his behavior made no sense to me and others we were closer to. Last year I came to this board convinced his pain meds explained a lot. Idk. A WAH, how they say, heads are messy.
And if I've dropped the rope, none of it matters anyway.
I do think of him. It all still feels so unbelievable to me, but the grief feelings lessen each week. I used to stand in the shower and cry my eyes out with the hurt, but it's been a long time since I've felt it so deeply. This wasn't about me. It's him, his journey.
I just don't understand why he is dragging it out. There are no signs he is 2nd guessing or missing me - heck he has been nasty and told me how much better off he is. So why?
Thanks, Tlee, Vanilla, Gan, Calibri and Zephyr for checking in on me. My sitch warrants very little comment anymore, it's like watching paint dry. That and grass growing - happens faster than someone healing and is arguably a bit more interesting
Z, as far as I can see, your sitch has little if nothing to do with STBX right now and has everything to do with this wonderful woman. So for me, i would not describe it as watching paint dry, unless you are into that kind of thing, but rather watching a flower blossom out if the weeds.
Here is to better days ahead!!!
Thank you, Zephyr. Very kind.
This wasn't about me. It's him, his journey.
I just don't understand why he is dragging it out. There are no signs he is 2nd guessing or missing me - heck he has been nasty and told me how much better off he is. So why?
It's possible he doesn't know/realize why hes dragging it out either, might not be intentional. There could be no specific reason.
Point is, your right. This is just his journey and has nothing to do with you.
Whats going on is your journey is turning into awesomeness
Everything feels so raw again today. Really wish this process was linear or I knew how not to go in circles.
Gem from last nights group:
Ask yourself only the questions that will assist with your healing. Knowing what hotel, what she was wearing, when he fell out of love, these answers will likely do little for you.
Someone, tell me what this looks like to you, please:
I'm getting reports that STBX is now a gym rat, and driving around like it is his job. As if it wasn't just two months ago, he claimed he had no ability to do these kinds of things due to the accident he had years ago.
It's all so strange. Him trying to stay relevant to my friends and family through loving 'caring' texts about me (as he's actually cursing me out via text within the same hour), poking around the back of my home, scheduling random tours of my friends' workplace, being nasty to me, yanking my chain all the while over getting his things and signing the papers.
What is this!?
I feel so defrauded. Who was this person. I was closest to him and maybe that was the mounting tension over the last year of our M, I knew something wasn't adding up and I got so frustrated. During DR I blamed myself for my lack of empathy,criticism for the things he wasn't doing but was capable of - but I think my gut knew he was trying to play me. The more resistant I got, the more I pointed out the inconsistencies - the more he pushed me away. There was a lot of emotional abuse, him all the time psycho-analyzing, just being hurtful about things, hinting at suicide if I didn't play caretaker.
In July last year in my journal, I wrote that the driving thing, the helplessness, the increased dependency as well as the coldness/disrespect, that I felt it was all building for his move for a D. I wrote about how used I was feeling, even then.
I wasn't wrong. He just wasn't happy, for years. Even before we were M he would throw our R up as something we should end if there was any conflict. I wish I'd not have made so many excuses. Oh, he just said it out of anger. He loves me as much as I love him.
Why won't he move forward on the D he drew up. Why do people do this when they have no desire for the M or person they left behind, it makes NO sense.
Why is he dragging this out??
Hmmmm:
Ask yourself only the questions that will assist with your healing.
I fear you will drive yourself nuts with this question, Z!
Gan, thanks for stopping by.
I am having a great, great start to the week after an even better weekend. The air in my house feels different. Lighter. I met some great people over the weekend, laughed a lot. I feel happy. Me from years ago is returning a little stronger each day.
STBX used to complain that I was an unhappy person and he couldn't make he happy (like that was his job?!). It almost makes me laugh now, when I think about where some of these lines in my face came from - being confused at his adoration of me/his online behavior...the crazy hurtful irrational things he'd say in most conflicts, well, I could go on.
I am trying not to fight my thoughts, just watching them pass by like cars in traffic (thank you Headspace). And I feel assured he is probably finding himself miserable and lonely as he was before I met him. I know that's a jackal thought. But I don't care, it makes me happy. Just not at the point to wish someone who threw me away under a lot of pretense and manipulation much good will.
Got some goals for this week, life and work needs to step up to match the healing GAL stuff.
I am excited for you that you have been having positive time...really I am, makes me smile actually!!!!
used to complain that I was an unhappy person and he couldn't make he happy (like that was his job?!).
I would bet there are a ton of guys here who have used those words...I can't make her happy, myself included. We thought it was our jobs. We now know better.
But to the point, I felt like $hit for a very long time trying to please my wife. I couldn't. It drove me to a sorrowful place knowing that I was not man enough to make her happy. It was almost too much to bare. Wish I knew then...what we know now.
Z
I doubt H knows anything at all, as long as you are safe my dearest Z. Unstable STBX may be random and that's not good for you.
Easy my lovely one. Analysing may not help you in the slightest.
Thank you for your loving caring words on my threads and please be ultra careful. H has lost control of his sitch.
V
This is a long post, I don't know if it makes a lot of sense, but I need help getting my head straight.
An update in the sitch and a shift of emotions. A friend of ours met with my STBX last night to see if she could help. She is lawyer, and offered to diffuse and see if she could be an intermediary.
I haven't cried like this in weeks. Been almost an hour of sobs, getting it together, more sobs.
Apparently STBX is very, very angry. I heard this and it made me confused. What has he got to be angry about? He is out and about, to people that used to be his friends, acting like life is rosy...until she sits down to talk with him about all this. She says he felt like he really tried and sees the sitch very differently. I asked her if it seemed like false anger. After all he sat across from me that day at breakfast smug and cool, seemed to be showing me he was well at peace.
In any case, she shared with him that she had seen the texts and though he seemed like a nice guy, he had no right to talk to me that way, regardless of how communication with me made him feel. He made a frustrated face for a long time.
He reported he won't get his things b/c of a space issue (though he has told me it's fear of losing rights to it if he signs issue). He told her that my desire to be done so quickly marked a sudden shift and he worries what angle I'm working. (And we both agreed that is ludicrous, considering all I'm asking him to do is sign the papers he drew up - that detail how it all resolves - there's no more 'angle' to work.)
Supposedly in the course of the conversation he said "it'll be done, it'll be done soon enough," and she told me that if I go NC for a while and let him cool down he will probably move on it - just her impression. I haven't contacted him for a week and a half, I figure what's a few more.
So, this is what has shifted in my heart. I know that this board, and my counselor, and all kinds of wisdom says that it doesn't matter what your ex was thinking. How do you process something if you don't understand what it is you're processing?
I was better off in December, when I first read DR. And I thought of him teething, I thought I had a handle on what was going on. I would have been ok if we had divorced then, I felt like I knew WHO I would have been divorcing.
He became this monster to me the week his check came in, and he claims to my friend he was really trying - that is the essence of what is so traumatic to me, because I thought so too. I really believed despite the threats of leaving me again, that I saw equally weighted glimpses of him loving and working it out. It all seems so calculated now.
But it does matter to me, what exactly this was. I have thought so long on his apathy, cruelty, smugness, his words and actions and posturing. And in talking with her I realized he may* be hurting, as well. One doesn't cancel the other. He doesn't seem to understand why he got kicked out or see himself responsible for the things that happened that night, his own feelings of wanting to be 'done,' or demise of this relationship in general - the disappointment he felt in our communication, in me, the supportive person I supposedly wasn't, the unhappy person I supposedly was, he doesn't see his part in any of it. (victim)
but whether he is acting cool with me or acting angry with her - he has a mess going on and is human. Like me. I loved him. I must have feelings still or I wouldn't be such a wreck this morning imagining he is not so cold. I guess it goes back to what he always told me about not having the ability to have conversations with himself. My friend suggested he maybe was acting fine with everything that day at breakfast bc he didn't know how else to act...and wanted to hurt me for his own hurt.
I feel like the past may be resolving itself and things may be settling better in my heart because of this. But man, it hurts. How could he just not know it was not acceptable to treat me like this, that I didn't cause his abusive words, threats, actions?
If he really believes he was the nice guy and he was justified...it allows him to be the man I loved, that I knew, despite his actions and attitudes when he came home.
I don't know, I can't figure out how two people who say they loved, who are both angry, how we get here. If he is actually angry...that implies he did care. If we both cared, why are we here? Why couldn't he care when I asked him to get help for the anger management, to work at our marriage?
Yes I am sure you still have feelings for that man you have spent a huge chunk of your adult life with...one you shared so much with, one you opened your soul with...that man is the same as the the one who will not sign those papers.
It is crazy and you are learning to not allow him to hurt you anymore. Cadet and others have stated that divorce is a piece of paper...but it IS more than that. It is the ultimate boundary that tells your husband that you will not allow yourself to be enveloped in the crazy or the lies or whatever the hell else is going on in his head.
You can start to see yourself ad the loving beautiful woman you were meant to be and god willing meet some wonderful people to have fun with.
I am glad you've stuck around, not because of your husband...but for your growth!
Thank you, Zephyr, blessings to you! I am glad for your support. My heathen prayers for your best possible outcome in your life.
I had a realization today about the WAS spouse. And their anger. I started thinking about previous break up, where I had fallen out of love, gotten frustrated, and ended things.
I was also hurting, and angry. Certainly I had loved these people. I was angry at them for behaviors decisions, actions, that either upset me, or did not meet my needs. Why didn't they care about me.
It is the same with my STBX. He felt his emotional needs were not being met. He felt I could not listen to him the way he wanted to be listened to. But I was not a good caretaker for him.
None of that is invalid, just because he is driving and caring for himself just fine now. It is not invalid because he was abusive. It is simply what he came to believe about me, and there were Times I am sure that I gave him good reason.
Still, I do not think I could ever forgive him for the way he treated me and how he became in the end. I do not want to see him ever again.
That's my girl, Z! You used to comment on how at peace I seemed...and I think this is why. I too came to the realisation that my H was coming from a place of unmet needs where he know longer felt he wanted to be faced with that. I very much doubt he wanted to see things go this way either. That's where I find my compassion from.
The abuse side of things makes your sitch quite different to mine; I can't imagine how difficult that would be to recover from. On the other hand I wonder if you can move to a place of forgiveness, while not feeling like you need to be subjected to it again? Most important I think is that you don't end up projecting the view that all men are pigs. You said something to that effect on my thread (in relation to "plane-gate") and I think that is something you might want to try to keep in check moving forward.
Hugs, Z.
Let's just say I should work for the CIA. Found evidence this morning he used Tinder while we were separated, he met someone while he was up there. Did anything materialize? That doesn't matter now.
Lots more.
Was a bag of mixed up feelings but yeah, eerie timing with my own realization above. And proof of it. He just wasn't that into it anymore. Wanted to talk to me about other people, and was afraid to go after what he wanted. And did kinda try when he came back by his definition.
But I know what I know.
1. We used to love each other very much. He really does have some good things about him. I have some not great things about me.
2. Abusive manipulating immature behaviors were always present from him. Our R was always full of fights. I enabled and contributed. I tried to fix. I was insecure. That was one of his biggest gripes I discovered. That I couldnt 'handle' truth and still be ok about us.
3. He emotionally divorced me 6 mo ago. And then tried to build that bridge back half heartedly. He wrote about me as a fixture, an impersonal pronoun. I think of the time everyone here has spent on these boards. I crossed his mind only when I came home from work.
3.5. The threats of leaving me and wanting to date others was truth rearing its head. For both of us. Just bc he used the truth in those fights doesn't make it any less emotionally abusive or controlling.
4. He used me until he could make his escape. It's ok. Lots of WAS do this. It's not special.
5. I did not meet his emotional needs regardless of what I think about those needs. He wanted more there and thought staying with me and getting EA somewhere else was higher road if he got what he needed.
6. He got real curious about sex with other women. He had no complaints about ours though.
7. It is over in his heart. Aside from anger, he is done. My heart hurts and wants a time machine but I can't live in the past.
8. I can't change him or his behavior and it is unhealthy to beat myself up bc this man fell out of love with me. I never thought I would've seen the day. He used to make me feel so incredibly loved.
9. If it hadn't been that fight it would have been another. He resented me terribly and it was escalating. I can't beat myself up for drawing a line where I should have a long time ago.
10. I have to get on with my life and stop thinking about it all now.
10. I have to get on with my life and stop thinking about it all now.
YES! easier said than done.
If you've got the knack at investigation, I should want to gain your services for a spell
ambivalence, I do understand the attraction to H. I get some of it. It is the 'cool' part of the cycle. H isn't angry but controlling, it's measured for his audience. Go back and review your list of abuses to know.
I am slightly cynical. H had his cash settlement, his freedom and sees ihis resources whittling away.
Where does he go then for resources?
If he Ds with you when he has cash, what then?
Can H performi in life!
Sweetheart, do you have good L on the fins?
V
V, Zephyr-
I don't think it is seriously whittling away. He may have played a bit, but he was not like your H, V, who would ask you for resources. He never did. He just didn't step up so I had to.
Some legal counsel, yes. Advice is uniform. There is nothing here to fight for, go the way of peace if possible.
I think he is only holding out bc of the great indecision and distraction fog that has plagued most of his life. He knows it is unpleasant to think about and something has changed and I am pushing and so he has become an immovable object. What I read from him directly is that he could care less about me and wants to walk away. This was not put on for an audience. The little head may know that but for whatever reasons - control, plaything, conflict enjoyment, he's not willing to make it final.
So be it. I am NC and I assume one day he will get bored.
I caught myself singing and dancing in my kitchen today. Smiled when I thought of STBX complaining I was just an unhappy person. I felt a lovely light within me today. I know it is fleeting and tomorrow it may not be there, but it gives me hope that I am healing.
You silly man. A woman contending with manipulation, irrationality, gaslighting, twisting...and a man who projects all his misery and insecurity - of course I was not the joyous girl you first fell in love with. But it is not who I am at my core. Anymore that your charm and beauty is who you were. I cringe thinking of the time you were in the middle of stonewalling me for a week straight and became my loving H in public at a party, only to return to ignoring me when we got home.
I have learned I can be a better listener, develop my empathy muscles (instead of problem solving). I am sure I let him down in those ways, truly. But I really like me. I always have. I will find love again when I am ready and I promise not to look at a man for his potential and the emotional 'depth' he possesses, but what he already is and how mature his emotions are in practical matters and not idealistic ramblings.
"Beware of men who cry. It's true that men who cry are sensitive to and in touch with feelings but the only feelings they tend to be sensitive to and in touch with are their own." -Nora Ephron
I caught myself singing and dancing in my kitchen today. Smiled when I thought of STBX complaining I was just an unhappy person. I felt a lovely light within me today. I know it is fleeting and tomorrow it may not be there, but it gives me hope that I am healing.
Hello Zelda,
Wonderful, you are healing! Please continue to take care of yourself and try to keep a PMA.
*Hugs*
Bob
Funny thing hit me tonight. This is me as an actualized real adult sans STBX. I've never known this grown up version of me, without him. When ppl are together for a while, we lock identities together I think. This is me with all the parts he was part of building shaping and growing, like water over stones. Yet I was able to look over old pictures almost with tenderness and not anger.
Two hours ago I remembered discovering this week he cheated. But the pictures, he was starry eyed in those years too before he got so angry and disappointed.
Most of those pictures, I could remember some terrible fight in the week they were taken. I always felt so confused and rattled the way he'd escalate and twist.
It's starting to all balance, become a cohesive something to look back on. This is exciting. It's like my heart and brain can look at the past and future peacefully in these moments this evening.
Z
I love your post.
So peaceful and serene.
V
Cadet,
Can I ask you a favor? Would you consider adding something to you're welcome message please.
To encourage newcomers to examine if there is a history of verbal, psychological, emotional abuse and/or physical violence that has been present in their marriage, and that MWD does not advocate for applying her methods, or being the first to change in these instances.
Those of us that have been in these relationships continue in them because we believe that change is possible, it will be better the next time, we can do something about it, or that somehow it was really all of our fault that they behaved the way they did.
DR plays into this hope.
During piecing my STBX escalated his control efforts greatly. "Doing what works" in an abusive relationship will often hold it together but will also encourage more of the same, too.
I am not blaming this forum, MWD books for anything I experienced. But I think it should be an important disclaimer on that welcome message, just as MWD has a chapter that addresses how none of this applies to such a situation.