Hello everyone.
I am brand new to this board, just signing on today. I'm going to apologize ahead of time, this is going to be a very long post.
I have read through the book Divorce Remedy, but am hoping for more support here, and help with implementing my detach. We are completely separated, and have no children, so I'm worried without a reason to contact each other, he's just going to be OK moving on.
My husband walked out 3 weeks ago today, stating he wanted a divorce, and threw the whole gamut of negatives at me before going. It really hurt, we had a good relationship, but after reading in the book not to believe anything I hear, it made me feel better.
He was extremely extremely angry, and the anger just didn't make sense to me. I wasn't a perfect wife, but hadn't done anything that bad to warrant that much anger. I did all the things initially that the book says not to do........crying, begging, pleading....etc etc etc. As the book says, nothing worked. So I switched my mind completely into a more positive, upbeat frame of mind. That didn't work to bring him home, but it did get him to mellow a bit, and at least take divorce off of the table for now.
My husband and I have been married 14 years on 5/5, together 17 years. We bought a small business together 2 1/2 years ago.....a restaurant......and we both worked at the restaurant. The first year there it was all about him and I, building this business, and getting to know our customers, and our customers getting to know us. We created a family type atmosphere, and we were all like family with our staff and regular customers. I also worked from home, doing behind the scenes things like marketing, paperwork, dealing with emails, etc. etc. etc.
I whole heartedly believe this started last year for him. He just started to change, and become more distant with me, and more into having fun with his staff. Joking around, and acting more like friends with them. If I was around, sitting next to him, he couldn't carry on a normal conversation with me, he'd turn his back to me, but when his girls would come in, he would then turn towards me, just lite up with smiles, and became Mr. Chatty. At that point he'd pay attention to me because he knew I would be upset.
He started to become more distant, spending more time there, and paying less attention to me. I wasn't asking him to pay attention to me all the time, I was totally satisfied with sitting together a few minutes out of his day.
The restaurant became all about him, and he was beginning to push me out, and keep me home. My husband is way more than just the owner/manager, he is also the head cook, and spends his day in the kitchen, as well as trying to run and manage everything. I know it is extremely stressful on him, but it was his was his choice, he didn't want any help from me, and often criticized me. He said I tried to control to many things. I tried very hard to understand that he was stressed, but he put himself in that position. He would leave at 7:00 am, and not get home sometimes until 1:00 am.
I found out a week after he left that he had been having an emotional affair for a while before he left, with one of his staff members. She didn't have a vehicle, and it started when he would pick her up, and bring her home. The day he left our home, the affair became physical. Three of his staff members warned him about this woman. She is not a nice person at all, she's downright nasty. She physically pushed two of our girls, and called them the "C" word to their face.
Those three staff members chose to stand up to him, and have been quite angry with him. He lost their respect, and friendship. It has made it very awkward there for him, but he still defends this woman to no end.
He has chosen to defend her, and her actions, she is still around. She started out as a waitress, and when she couldn't get along with any of the staff, or our customers, he pulled her into the kitchen. Even the customers verbally complain to my husband about her!
Fast forward to this week. My husband has been making negative comments to one of the staff, who is also my friend. He stated that she is a raging alcoholic. He said last week that he is going to break it off with her, but hasn't yet, and knowing my husband as well as I do, he doesn't like confrontation at all, and gets nervous with heated situations, so he will put it off as long as he can.
Nobody likes this girl, she is well known in the community, and has a very bad reputation with anyone who knows her. My husband doesn't believe any of it he said. So when one of our staff was speaking badly about her, my husband had this woman call this staff member "to defend herself". The argument got heated, and this woman was harassing the staff member to the point she threatened to call the police, and file harassment charges.
One thing that confuses me about this, if he is seeing things about her that he does not like, the alcoholism for example, and knows he needs to break it off, why is he having her call our staff member, and allowing her to use his phone to do so, and then defending her? When the staff member confronted him, my husband said she needed to defend herself. I'm so very confused by this.
I know for a fact that if he is letting her use his phone, she is reading my texts to him, so at this point I have definitely decided it's time to detach from him.
The only only thing that makes sense to me about this, is that he sees this woman as a safe place right now, in spite of her flaws. He's feeling pressure from every direction, and I know he is dealing with the guilt because of what he's doing to hurt me. I've tried to remain extremely upbeat with him, and not blame, accuse, or get angry, and I don't think he expected that at all. I feel that's where his guilt is coming in, he expected me to blow up.
This woman is very much a person that will tell you EXACTLY what she knows you want to hear. She has her claws in deep with my husband, for her own benefit, thinking she's going to get something from him I believe. She loves the fact that he is respected by the community, and views him as someone higher up.
Over the weekend, my husband passed out in the kitchen. He has only done that one other time in the 17 years we've been together. It was shortly after we bought the restaurant, and the pressure and stress he was feeling was very high. So I know he is feeling pressure and stress right now.
I'm actually very worried about him, and our business. But I have chosen to detach right now. My only issue is that he controls the money now, and I have none since I also worked at the restaurant. I have to ask him for money to pay the house bills, since he is living outside of the home.
I'm trying to sell some items that I have, so that I can remain detached as long as possible. I'm feeling hopeless at this point though..........and worried.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Lucy. I am so sorry you are here, but glad that you found the place for you.
Cadet will do an official welcome for you and will post many links. READ THEM! They are lifelines to us all.
I'm concerned about the money issue that you are facing. Are both your names on the deed? If so, then you should not have to ask him for money. Is the restaurant both of yours full time jobs? I don't know a lot about finances in this situation, but right away that is what struck me.
Your H is in a fog right now and not logical at all, but you need to protect yourself.
Thank you Eirinn. The restaurant was taken out in his name, but my signatures are on the paperwork as well.
If I ask my H for money, he will put it in the account, but I'm nervous how this will work when I'm trying to detach.
Yes, the restaurant was our sole income, we both worked it. So that means I am not working right now.
Also, I have a male friend who is married. He went through something very similar as my husband and I. He is telling me that if I just detach, and don't let my husband know the option is there for him to come back, he will just stay in the situation he is in, and not even consider coming back as an option.
I'm so very torn as to what it right to do.
Lucy- I promise you that support is exactly what you'll find here. That reason alone makes this board an invaluable resource, and there are many other reasons as well.
Please do not let yourself feel hopeless. There is hope. Even when storm clouds black out the sky the sun is still indeed there.
You are understood and loved here.
Is it your business as well? What did you used to do in the restaurant before? I would suggest you get another job and show that you don't need to be dependent on him.
It's going to be hard but you can do it.
Lucy,
I admire how remarkably calm and centered you sound given what you are describing.
Protect yourself financially above all else. If your H will give you some funds while you get yourself your own life, it is wise to take him up on that.
These situations, IF they turn around, take a very long number of months, and it is a very small percentage that do. If you can let go of hope, and do the DR routine in the meantime, that is your best chance I believe.
There is reference here to the Stockdale paradox, about the optimists being the ones that don't survive. I found it helpful when I got here to research that.
I'm sorry that you are going through this. Here you'll find a lot of people who have the patience to hear out of all your worries and can help sort out the best actions for you to take when you are in doubt.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you everyone, I truly appreciate the help! Couple questions.
1. I am going to give him a list of monthly household expenses to use each month to give me the funds I need. I am looking for a job, and will tell him so. Would it be best to call him, or just text it? After that is done, I want to have no more contact with him so that I can detach.
2. Zelda.....is Stockdale paradox just something I can Google for info?
2. Zelda.....is Stockdale paradox just something I can Google for info?
Yes Admiral Stockdale was a POW in Vietnam
I am taking steps for "me" now, losing weight, going to counseling weekly, attending Weight Watchers meetings weekly.......I found the group I'm in to be especially supportive. Sunday I'm also going to attend a new church, and speak with the Pastor. Then Monday I am going to join a singles group for folks my age........it's not a dating service, but more a support group of people who attend all sorts of events, like movies, dinners, plays, etc. I thought if nothing else, it will get me out of the house, and meeting people again.
I'm not holding onto a lot of hope here with him, he's a stubborn man, and I am his 2nd wife. I am realistic. He did this to his first wife also, with the exception that he was very young then, and she had cheated on him with the man she's married to now. Before they were divorced, he ran into the arms of a very dysfunctional woman, and that relationship was very short lived as well........same thing as his current relationship is now....I'm telling you all, this lady is CRAZY!
I just don't understand this very much, our relationship wasn't even 20% as bad as what he's in now, and we have a beautiful home in the country, very private, and lots of nature around us.....I'm watching a small group of 7 deer licking the salt blocks behind the house now! I just don't understand how he could go from that, to a crazy alcoholic lady renting an apartment in a bad part of town in the city.
I firmly believe that part of his problems are the restaurant itself, and not just me, he puts in a tremendous amount of work and time there in 1 single day. He always says it's his passion, and life's dream, but I believe what he's referring to when he says that is the customers themselves, and the fun he has with them and the staff, I think everything else that comes along with it has been causing him to much pressure and stress.
I'm not holding onto a lot of hope here with him, he's a stubborn man, and I am his 2nd wife.
I am realistic.
He did this to his first wife also, with the exception that he was very young then, and she had cheated on him with the man she's married to now.
Before they were divorced, he ran into the arms of a very dysfunctional woman, and that relationship was very short lived as well........same thing as his current relationship is now....I'm telling you all, this lady is CRAZY!
So don't take this the wrong way but what does this say about YOU?
Hi Lucy, sorry to read of your plight, and welcome to the forum. It's a good place to be.
My H also had/is having? an A with a fragile and rather dysfunctional woman. He has been the OM in their R for a year. Their R is rocky at best, but he still hangs on in there. He told me he wanted to help her get out of her current R with a controlling guy (which also started as an A incidentally.)
There's not too much you can do for your H right now. And it may well be a while before he wakes up and starts to look at what he is doing and the damage to himself and others. Also, I would protect yourself and have no contact with her if she is a bit bonkers. As someone else posted recently - she is a wormette who is not worthy of your wisdom.
Protect yourself as best you can financially and start moving forwards from there. These sitches tend to take a good while to resolve. Can you tell us some more about your marriage? Why do you think your R became vulnerable to him having an A?
I mean, I obviously have hope, I love this man deeply, otherwise I wouldn't be here, or doing the things I'm doing. I do think I'm a good person, but I am trying to remain somewhat realistic as well. I do think his issues are much deeper than just being about me.
Google it
Lucy,
You do seem very centered in all of this, and I think you are taking the right steps to turn around your life. I urge you to keep doing what you are doing.
In one of your first posts you said.....
"He was extremely extremely angry, and the anger just didn't make sense to me. I wasn't a perfect wife, but hadn't done anything that bad to warrant that much anger. I did all the things initially that the book says not to do........crying, begging, pleading....etc etc etc. As the book says, nothing worked. So I switched my mind completely into a more positive, upbeat frame of mind. That didn't work to bring him home, but it did get him to mellow a bit, and at least take divorce off of the table for now."
I love how you understood that your actions/reactions enabled the person he has become. We all have a hand in how our spouse reacts. Furthermore, changing your attitude perspective to get a different result is wonderful. Continue to change those things and monitor the results.
Thank you very much Zelda!
Also thank you mahhhty!
I have worked VERY hard to remain positive and dignified when I am speaking with him, or texting him, and it is very difficult at times because I just want to shake him, and say "wake up"!. Part of me believes that may be where part of his anger comes in, he probably expected me to blow up at him, and I did exactly the opposite knowing if I pushed him, it would push him further away.
I did speak with him this morning, I called him to ask if it would be ok for me to text a list of the house bills to him. I called because the OW has been using his phone, and I needed to be sure he got the text.
I said Good morning, then I noticed he has a bad cold, so I said I was really sorry to hear he wasn't feeling good, then asked if I could send the list. Before I ended I told him I hope he feels better, said I had to go, and said goodbye, have a good day. Short, to the point, and it was positive. He was a bit crabby when he first answered, but me being polite to him made him mellow. He now has the list of house bills, he said he'll make the deposit, and hopefully problem solved.
What's weird is everyone says he's been so irrational, but when I've talked to him the last couple times , it's almost like he's my same husband as before.
Now time to detach!
Oh, and I weighed in for the week at Weight Watchers today.....11 lbs down for the week! Another small victory for me!
Hi Lucy,
As others have posted, I'm sorry that you are here but it is like one supportive family. You will be, as I'm sure you've already noticed, understood and given good advice.
I believe my good friend Mahhhty said, "We all have a hand in how our spouse reacts" or something similar. I couldn't agree with him more. It seems like you have the right attitude. Hang tough.
Also, if you have time, you may want to create a "signature" so people, at a quick glance, have some idea about your situation. Something like what you see at the bottom of this post.
I wish you well, Lucy.
Bob
Lucy you seem so ahead of the game. You are very self aware.
The more I go on my DB journey the more I see the power of detaching. There's a reason why many here suggest calling the Last Resort Technique the First Resort Technique.
Congratulations on the weigh-in!
Thank you RealMe.
I want to run something past everyone. I have a male friend that I met when I sold some of my camera gear. Him and his wife are such kind people! He confided in me, that he had had an affair, and everything they went through. He recently suggested to me that I tell my husband that he has not burned any bridges with me, and I am always willing to work on our relationship. He said if his wife hadn't done that, that he would have kept going with the affair.
I don't think my husband is ready for that right now, with as irrational as they say he has been, and as angry as he's been. But would anyone suggest this down the road?
Lucy I think you should avoid any R talk right now.
Someone asked me in a few messages back, what my part in pushing him to divorce was. I believe a lot of it had to do with when I quit my full time job in 2003. It was an extremely stressful job, and it just got to be so overwhelming for me, I cried there just about every day because of the pressure. We had discussed it, and he was ok with it at that time, as long as I had another job, which I did, but the money was not the same. I don't think down deep he really was ok with it though. After that we moved way out of the area, and then about 7 years after that, moved to where we are now.
I have always had a part time business that I ran from home, up until buying the restaurant. I do feel he has always had resentment for this though,even though he never said anything about not having a full time job.
His job was very hard on both of us, physically for him, and he was working out of town ALOT! I was always alone. Two different times, for a year each time, he was sent to work out of state during the week, and only home on the weekend. It made it so difficult to reconnect in two days, and then he'd have to leave again, it was the big reason we never had kids. Every time it was almost the end of the weekend, I would start to tense up, and get nervous, knowing come Monday morning he was gone again for the week.
When we bought the restaurant, it was not what either of us expected it to be! It was way more involved than either of us thought it would be. After so many years of him being out of town all the time, it began to take its toll on me. He started to get stressed, and was all business, as he should be. He started smoking again, and slowly pushed me out. I was alone ALOT again. I never ever wanted to run it, and respected that he was the boss, and had the final say, but he never believed me, so it was a constant battle, and I just started working from home more, and started my photography business up again.
The last year he started to really change. It was all about having fun with the staff, and the attention from the customers for him. I didn't exist anymore. I got Mr. Cranky all the time, and everyone got the best parts of him.
It seemed to me like I always had to fight for any attention from him. I admittedly did push him.....to much. It was a very hard situation to go through at those
times.
Looking back, I wish I had known about the tools I'm learning now! I have seen literally EVERYTHING that I have been doing wrong. I always felt I was right, and he was wrong. I was unwilling to see another side. I didnt know any other
way at the time.
I know I had a huge roll in this, and this is why I have been unable to feel anger towards him at this point.
Don't get me wrong, he has not been a perfect man to live with, he definitely has some issues as well, but I feel like I'd just be bashing him if I ran through the list. Truth be told, he has been a very supportive husband to me, and I wish I hadn't taken it so for granted. That's why I feel so hopeless........I've completely seen the light, and done a lot of hard work to help guide me to a more positive loving place. I just pray its not to late.
It wasn't all bad, we had a lot of fun times together, and some great memories! But I think a lot of issues have been magnified by the stress and pressure of the restaurant. I honestly feel like he's been in the throws of a midlife crisis for the last year.
Thank you RealMe. I agree, no contact now.....but I'm asking about down the road.
I'm not holding onto a lot of hope here with him, he's a stubborn man, and I am his 2nd wife.
I am realistic.
He did this to his first wife also, with the exception that he was very young then, and she had cheated on him with the man she's married to now.
Before they were divorced, he ran into the arms of a very dysfunctional woman, and that relationship was very short lived as well........same thing as his current relationship is now....I'm telling you all, this lady is CRAZY!
So don't take this the wrong way but what does this say about YOU?
Cadet, I'm still curious what you meant by this?
I'm not holding onto a lot of hope here with him, he's a stubborn man, and I am his 2nd wife.
I am realistic.
He did this to his first wife also, with the exception that he was very young then, and she had cheated on him with the man she's married to now.
Before they were divorced, he ran into the arms of a very dysfunctional woman, and that relationship was very short lived as well........same thing as his current relationship is now....I'm telling you all, this lady is CRAZY!
So don't take this the wrong way but what does this say about YOU?
Cadet, I'm still curious what you meant by this?
When I first got here, I did not understand all the advice I was being given.
Like - Look in the mirror and make yourself a better person.
I think to myself - Cadet you are awesome why would anyone divorce YOU?
What changes in myself would I make to be better?
I really struggled with this, as I read different threads and
saw all the cheating, drinking, lying, drugs that were going on.
I thought, none of that is me, or my STBXW.
So what am I going to change and WHY?
I ended up discovering that I and most people here,
are codependent, fixers, conflict avoiders and pursurers.
So I said to myself, here is what I must work on.
Another words, it is kind of like the alcoholic who says I am going to
do a 180 and stop drinking hard liquor, only beer and prescription drugs from now on.
Is this the right change(180), ummm NOPE.
SO - a long explanation - to try to get you to think about what do YOU need to change?
Thank you Cadet. I understand now. I feel that I was very needy with my husband, for his affection, and I relied way to much on him to make me happy....way to much, to the point I didn't appreciate what I did already have with him! I didn't come from a place of love, but more a place of entitlement. In my journey so far, I think I made those discoveries early on, and have really done a lot of work to change my way of thinking.
I also did some research this morning on the Stockdale Paradox, and what an amazing, and powerful concept. So as I understand it, it's looking this horrible situation right in the face, and having the faith to believe that I will have the positive outcome that I want in the end. ie: I have faith that my husband and I will be back together, and live a very happy loving life together.
Being optimistic, not fully taking stock of thr situation, and creating false hopes and timelines.
Lucy, you seem to be two steps ahead of where I was when I joined which is good. I would really keep focusing on you and making yourself be the best Lucy there is. Then you will be happy no matter what and your H would be a fool to leave you.
Congratulations on the weight loss!
Hi Lucy, sounds like you are doing pretty well. I also found the Stockdale Paradox helpful and often think of it. In terms of overall faith, I don't even have faith in such a specific outcome (H and I being back together again) - more an overall faith that life will be good again going forwards, whatever the outcome of this sitch.
And then rolling sleeves up to deal with the intervening brutal reality in a way that is honest, authentic and true to my values...
The Stockade Paradox, opened me up to the Secret, to the Law of Attraction, to "Think and Grow Rich" by N. Hill, and to "Success Principles" by J. Canfield. I am trying to do what you are already doing (own a business).
It is amazing to me the principles in business books and how they are similar DB/DR.
Hello Lucy,
Yes, quite an interesting concept, isn't it? For now, please work on what you can control, that is making any positive changes that you feel you need to make.
BTW, way to go with the weight loss. Woo Hoo!
Don't give up hope Lucy.
Your friend,
Bob
If you can let go of hope, and do the DR routine in the meantime, that is your best chance I believe.
There is reference here to the Stockdale paradox, about the optimists being the ones that don't survive. I found it helpful when I got here to research that.
Here is what Zelda is referring to:
What the optimists failed to do was confront the reality of their situation. They preferred the ostrich approach, sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the difficulties to go away.
You must retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties.
AND at the same time…
You must confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be
"What the optimists failed to do was confront the reality of their situation. They preferred the ostrich approach, sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the difficulties to go away. "
That's not what the Stockdale paradox is. The ones who didn't survive were the ones who put a timetable as to when they would be rescued. They had EXPECTATIONS. The ones that lived, KNEW they would be rescued, but didn't have EXPECATIONS as to when. They let go of things that they knew wasn't in their control.
I love the optimism and the Stockdale paradox! We can only control ourselves and i like Mr. Bond's interpretation of the Stockdale Paradox. I am realizing that is it very important to NOT have expectations and NO timetable. Just work on ourselves!
STOCKDALE PARADOX:
"You must retain faith that you can prevail to greatness in the end, while retaining the discipline to confront the brutal facts of your current reality."
Admiral James Stockdale was shot down in Viet Nam and imprisoned in the "Hanoi Hilton" for almost eight years. He was also its highest-ranking officer. He writes about his experience in his book. How did he survive while others did not? "Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties." He adds, however, what distinguishes his position from simple "optimism" - and formulates what has become known as the Stockdale Paradox: "and confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
This is the critical difference which guards against the endless disappointment that optimism’s carrots' evasiveness create - until, maybe, the reward in the end. On the other hand, an ability to continue making realistic assessments of one's current life situation measures and apportions one’s energies and reserves to better face each challenge as it comes, thus positioning one with a stronger chance to prevail.
Hi everyone.
Im continuing with my weekly counseling, and my Weight Watchers meetings, eating healthy, (down 28 lbs total now!) and keeping in touch with friends. I've been taking care of a lot of things that need to be done around the house, and trying to keep busy.
I do have some progress to share also. The DB coach helped me put together a letter to my husband, and after some very small positive communication (BABY STEPS!) between my H and I last week, she said I could go ahead and send it to him. I waited a couple days, and sent it to him yesterday.
That afternoon he contacted me via text, and asked if I could resend it, he had accidentally deleted it. So I did resend it to him. I know he deletes things he gets from me, because "she" uses his phone, computer, and his truck too. So I feel he read it in the morning, when I let him know to check his email, read it, and deleted it. I feel he probably had been thinking all morning about it, and asked me to resend so he could read it again.
As he had texted me, I kept the line of communication open between us. Last week, what really opened him up was when I quickly handled a couple things he needed me to do for the restaurant. So yesterday after he had contacted me, I kept that line of communication open, in a very positive way. I asked him if there was anything I could do to help him, and he did say no.
I continued, I needed some help with the lawn mower, it was flashing a light that I didn't know what to do with, so I asked him a few questions via text. Next thing I know, my phone is ringing, and it was my H. We had an amazingly pleasant conversation! (BABY STEPS! I always try to remind myself of this!). It was like talking to the husband I know, and love.....no anger at all in his voice.
This is a huge step for him, he has not initiated any communication with me since this whole mess started, and he's always been bitterly angry towards me.
We ended the conversation with him coming to pick up our second mower, so he has something to use at the restaurant, and he said he will change the oil for me in the other one I use here.
He is still with "her", but she is starting to put the nails in her own coffin, and I believe he is starting to get tired of her. I'm not going to let myself focus on that point however, I'm just going to continue being the positive person I've been working hard to become, growing from this experience, and working on me.
Lucy - Its nice to read such a positive post. Your eyes are definitely pointed in the right direction. Keep on keeping on!
Thank you mahhhty!!!!!!
. I'm trying so hard! I have my difficult moments, and my meltdowns, just like everyone else I'm sure, but keeping faith, and keeping positive has been a huge focus for me.
Tuesday the 5th was our 14 year wedding anniversary, and it was a very hard day for me. No matter what I did, I couldn't focus, so I gave myself permission to grieve. By the afternoon, I was up, a bit more focused, and back on the treadmill working on me.
I am not going to contact him now, he knows what was in that letter, so I'm going to wait for him to contact me, then go from there.
Please stick to one thread until 100 posts it is easier to keep track of that way.
Threads merged.
The Solo Partner is a great book that talks about the Pursuer/Distancer Dynamic. The only way to get to a Distancer is by turning the table. Make the Distancer become the Pursuer by the Pursuer becoming the Distancer.
Keep on Keeping On! It sure seems you are going the right way. Have a great weekend!
Sorry about that Cadet.
Thank you for merging the posts.
mahhhty, thank you for the book suggestion, I just ordered it!
I've been reading a whole bunch of books, and it's nice to get referrals for ones with helpful info in them.
I have a question that I could use some help with. My H is supposed to be coming over in the next week to pick up our second lawn mower to use at the restaurant. I'm not sure what to do, should I be here, communicate with him, act positive and complimentary, leave to meet friends??? I'm fine with him being here without me, I trust he will not harm anything here, or take more than he is supposed to take.
I have been working really hard to be positive with him, friendly, complimenting. But he is still with her, and I am realizing this is in fact, and addiction for him. She is not a nice person, and not someone he would normally be drawn to, but he's not thinking logically right now I guess. I have been communicating with him positively, and kindly for 3 weeks now. I think he still cares a great deal for me, and enjoys my communication with him, but I think his addiction to her is preventing him from leaving her.
I had plans to detach from him last week, but he contacted me for a couple restaurant business favors, and then my DB coach had me send out the letter to him after some positive communication.
The letter generated a very positive reaction, I felt, it was the first time he'd picked up the phone to call me since he left, and he was very friendly. But part of me still believes his addiction to her is in full swing, and preventing him from leaving her. I believe he knows he needs to, he told members of our staff that he was going to, because she's an alcoholic, but something is keeping him from following through.
At this point, I wonder if I should take communication from him, if I should say anything to him, or what I should do? I feel I definitely need to detach now, especially after the letter was well received. I know he cares for me, but I feel his addiction is keeping him tied to both me and her.
Thoughts please, I could really use the advice, I'm very confused right now. I feel like we are right on the cusp of change, and I just don't feel like me continuing to stroke his ego will do the job if he is truly addicted to her. He can't have both.
I feel I definitely need to detach now, especially after the letter was well received. I know he cares for me, but I feel his addiction is keeping him tied to both me and her.
Hello Lucy,
I understand being confused, believe me! If you feel like you need to detach now, I think you already know the answer. I don't think you should be there.
Vet's, what do you think?
Good luck, I widh you well.
Bob
The Solo Partner is a great book that talks about the Pursuer/Distancer Dynamic. The only way to get to a Distancer is by turning the table. Make the Distancer become the Pursuer by the Pursuer becoming the Distancer.
Keep on Keeping On! It sure seems you are going the right way. Have a great weekend!
I really don't think you need to buy this book.
Read the pursuit and distance thread instead and really study what is in there.
Thank you Bob and Cadet.
Off to search for that thread.
Thank you Bob and Cadet.
Off to search for that thread.
There is a link in my homework that I gave you on post #1
Thank you Bob and Cadet.
Off to search for that thread.
You're welcome Lucy!
Bob
Lucy - I'm also interested to hear what's the best thing to do here, should you be in for H coming round, make small talk and be light and breezy or not be there at all.
In my case, I find it easier not to see H at all, he makes me nervous and although I try to act as if I'm confident and happy, I'm not sure if he can see through it. I also wonder if acting this way makes him believe I've accepted his choices and if it makes things easier for him.
It's so difficult. Good luck!
Part of me wants to be here initially, to show off the new me.....new hairstyle, contacts, and 30 lbs lighter.....down a whole size in clothes. But I don't know if that makes me a bad person, and I don't want to be a bad person, that's not who I am. I thought I might just make the initial greeting, then excuse myself, saying I have somewhere to be, and maybe make arrangements with a girl friend to meet for a coffee or something.
Lucy,
If you feel comfortable in just greeting him and then leaving, then do so. You can always say you have some errands to run or an appointment to keep...but be sure to thank him if he plans to change the oil in the other mower.
Like I stated in my response to you on my thread...the decision is yours to make, i.e., whether to stay there or not be around.
Lucy. Have you seen a show called Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay?
Your tale reminds me of how hard the restaurant industry is.
Thank you again job.
TenBook.....yes, the restaurant business is very hard, and I believe it played a very large roll in my situation sad to say.
An update to the story.....seems when my husband confided in my friend that the OW is a major alcoholic, he was being honest. About 20 min from our home is a very small town that I go to almost daily to pick up the mail at the Post Office. The restaurant is about 50 min away, so I don't usually expect to see my husband or his truck.
I went to meet a friend that day in the small town where I get the mail, he was buying my last camera lens that I sold, and I went much later in the day than I typically go. Going through town, there's a 4-way stop sign. To the left is a handful of small businesses. The usual small town places.....bank, hair salon, cafe, and a bar. Nothing open at that time of day except the bar, which is a trashy dive bar where you'd expect to see a bunch of heavy drinkers.
Looking to the left, my heart sank.....it was my husbands truck. I know my husband was at the restaurant all day that day, my friend that works there confirmed it, so the OW was using his truck.
Later that evening I was messaging with another friend, he and his wife have been a tremendous support system for me these last weeks. I had never told him who this OW was, but he asked me that night, and I told him. Turns out, he knows her. She is a regular at that bar, and when he and his wife had gone there to eat one night (they have good bbq ribs I guess), she was there, drunk. He said she had applied to work where his wife works (his wife is a waitress), but they turned her down because they know her history. That's when my husband hired her.......in spite of the warnings from one of the girls on our staff who knows her very well.
My friend said she is an extremely "annoying" person to be around, and that yes, she is a serious alcoholic, and has quite a bad reputation around town. But what neither of us can understand, is if my H knows she's an alcoholic, that has 2 DUI's, why is he letting her bar hop with his truck?
I know she has no vehicle of her own to drive, she has no phone, and the bank has a legal case in court right now against her mortgage. She has a history of financial issues.
I am not saying a word to him about this, he wouldn't believe me anyway, and it's best for me to stay out of it. He knows she's an alcoholic, and needs to figure out the rest on his own. I'm actually worried for him, and just fearful if she hurts someone with his truck, our insurance rates will skyrocket!
Still being new to this whole situation, it's still very hard to see his attraction to her, and what keeps him entangled in this mess. He obviously knows she's picking him up drunk, and that she's driving his vehicle drunk. It's very hard to understand, this girl just has so much baggage.
One way or another he will be forced to wake up. Hopefully it will be through an emotional reckoning and not a lawful or financial one.
Good luck Lucy!
Thank you mahhhty! I hope he wakes up too before something serious happens.
His family was there for the whole weekend, staying at the hotel behind the restaurant. I'm kind of curious how he managed the girlfriend situation, because she was working all weekend, and my husband has to run her back and forth because she doesn't have a vehicle. I'm sure he didn't tell his family the truth about everything.
Lucy,
What is the attraction to the ow? The attraction is not her looks, but she's new. She's different and she is the exact opposite of you. You have to remember that your h isn't himself right now and he's acting out in ways that are totally opposite of himself. He also sees himself as a rescuer, someone who is helping out a needy woman right now. Of course, she could also be stroking his ego and making him feel like a big man around town right now because truly, they are using each other as crutches to get by. Both have some serious issues to deal with.
He will wake up when he's ready and not until then. His business could be under water, truck gone, you are gone and until he's hit rock bottom hard, he may continue as he is right now. In many cases, they have to lose everything before they begin to see the light of day. Then, there are those cases, whereby they continue on in life as angry, bitter old people who see nothing but negativity all around them and they are truly lonely people who aren't happy. It's too early to tell which way your h will go.
For now, keep the focus on you and your business. Leave your h to twirl in the wind because there's nothing you can do for him except to let go and pray that he resolves whatever issues he's got going on and come to realize that home is where he wants to be.
Lucy recently posted this on a thread over on the MLC Forum and I believe it should also be posted here since this is part of what is going on w/the business, etc.
Lucy posted:
"This all feels so hopeless right now. I can see now that what I thought were his attempts at being friendly with me last week, when I helped him out, was just manipulation on his part. It's just heartbreaking.
At this point, there is no way I could be front and center with the business. Emotionally, I just couldn't bear to see what he is flaunting, and his anger would be pushed to limits I couldn't deal with I'm sure. Aside from that, our customers would know the truth of what's going on, all our regulars anyway, he's told them I couldn't handle the business, and that's why he's divorcing me, but they can see through his changes to I'm sure. If he loses it, he loses it. It was his dream to begin with, that he is supposedly so passionate about. He has a secure job to fall back on if he does.
My issues go so much more deeply than just the restaurant. Over the summer someone hit the front of our attached garage of our home, and pushed it off the foundation. I've been sitting here for the last nearly two months with no garage door, and just a tarp covering the opening. He has the nearly $7,000 check for the repairs. One of the customers, who is a contractor, is supposed to be doing the repair, and my H is supposed to help him as an employee.
We have a young family waiting to do a walk through on our home, but the repairs aren't done, and I've been waiting, holding off, because I haven't been sure what is going on. I just don't know what to do. I know I have no desire to speak with H right now."
My comments:
Lucy, why do you feel that him being nice was manipulation? Was it because he's at the point he can't handle things at the business or do you feel that he's using the "nice" card to get you to do what he wants? Does he get angry when you don't do things for him or very quickly?
Well, I see he's using the business as the excuse for the divorce. What a lame excuse to use...but I'm sure the people he has told this excuse to know better. People are on to him, but they don't know how to deal w/him. Some will question his excuse and he'll distance himself from them and others will remain silent, but friendly in order to keep their jobs. At least the excuse wasn't the fact that your purchased bagged salad, i.e., some have said this and please understand, I'm not making fun of your situation at all, but wanted to point out just how stupid some of their excuses can be.
Lucy, if you don't want to be part of the business, then it's time to think about him buying you out or you finding another position elsewhere. What are your qualifications? Have you begun preparing a resume? If not, now is a good time to think about it because it sounds like you are ready to pull the plug. It's not easy working w/an MLCer on a day-to-day basis when they are acting out.
You don't know what to do about the garage...It's time to ask him for the check for the damages to your garage or he needs to make out a check to you in the amount of $7,000 so that you can get a contractor in to repair the damage. My guess is that he's probably spent the money...but I hope that I am wrong on that. Get your garage repaired and go from there.
Lucy, it's time to think about what YOU want. Right now, he's not thinking about you at all...but himself. Time to protect yourself, your assets and layout a plan for your life. There is only one guarantee in this life...you have live your life to the fullest because you never know what tomorrow will bring. If your marriage is meant to be, he will find a way back to you...but it's going to be a long time from now, maybe years. Please do not put your life on hold for him. Today is a gift, a very precious gift...use it wisely.
I'll check back on you later today.
Lucy,
I know you are in a bad place and it sukks. And what I'm about to say is not said with harsh intentions, however, don't let your h's crazy become your life. Life is too short to focus on what all he is or is not dong. Because in the end, those really are his choices and his consequences.
I saw your posts on the other thread. Please don't let OW occupy too much brain space-she simply isn't worthy of the energy. She may be tall, short, curvy, skinny, drunk, a heroin addict, and any other myriad of combinations. Job is right in that she just isn't you. For your own sanity, please stop focusing on them. Also, and again I say this with kindness, don't worry about who is on who's side or how others see what he is doing is wrong. This is going to take a very, very , very long time and it's important that you keep living because life continues on regardless of what he does.
You seem like a really kind, nurturing lady so focus on what will make life rich for you. Hang in there!!! It really does get better:)
Lucy,
Have you been to a lawyer to seek any legal advice? The reason that I am asking is that if he does follow thru on a divorce, you will need to know what your legal rights are. Check around to see if there are any lawyers that offer a free consultation and make an appointment. You can also "google" your state to see what the laws are as well. Just because you seek legal counsel, it does not mean that you are filing...but knowledge is power and you need to know what you are entitled to.
Thank you all. Your kindness means a lot. I have already pulled back, and refuse to have any contact with him. He will either sink or swim on his own.
I know I focus on her, in my mind, I'm still trying to justify things, but truth be told, I know it's not about her, or me for that matter. The hope that he will come out of this is still there, I honestly don't want him to lose the business, but that is only his choice right now, I will not help him to keep it.
I have consulted a lawyer, but was not left with a good feeling. She said that he only has to give financial support based off of what he's making at the restaurant, which isn't much. It pays the bills, but neither of us were yet drawing a salary because it was still a fairly new business, and still in the growing process. Now, it may never reach its full potential.....or maybe it already did, I don't know, nor at this point do I care. She said it would take at least $5,000 for an accountant to do a overview of the business to see where things stand. Neither of us can afford that, and honestly, he can't afford the bills he already has..
He made a sizable deposit into the business acct yesterday because of the Mother's Day buffet, which is typically a very busy day for the restaurant. He deposited $250 into my account. I have not seen a paycheck come through for her, so he is giving her cash I'm sure, but I have no way to prove how much if he's taking from the funds before he deposits.
Also, our state is pretty lenient as far as divorce goes. It doesn't matter that he's had an affair. For his other divorces, he basically did the DIY per work, and filed that way. I still have hope that he remembers the lessons he learned the second time around, which he may, in time.
Job, I feel like he was being nice to get me to do what he wanted, he saw it as an opportunity. When he called, and was so nice, that's when he asked me if he could pick up our second mower. He can't be nice, unless he's getting something from me.
I'm not at the stage yet where I want to deal with him. I want to just pull away, and let things be a bit, I'm not ready to push him, I just can't yet, I need to be a bit more stable myself.
As far as qualifications, I don't know. I've not had a real job since 2003, I've always had my own small businesses that I ran, a sewing business, and then a photographer, and then we ran the business together.
You are dead on about the staff too. They feel he is doing something very wrong, and it's hard on them, but he doesn't care. I tried explaining that to my friend so she can understan better what is going od, but it's to late, it's only a job to her, and she doesn't even speak to him.
Well, I have proof now that he is helping her financially. A check just came through the business bank account made out to the Village of _______, for $138.02, with the memo Acct # **, with her last name, in the subject line.
Can you call the Village of......? And tell them that you are one of the owners and have a check you have a question about?
Utility bill.
Parking ticket.
Does it matter?
She has a court case right now against her mortgage, I can only assume he will try to bail her out of that as well. He has some excess funds in the account now from the holiday weekend, so I imagine he's feeling pretty good.
I'm contacting another lawyer to get some additional information. I think it's coming to that point.
Lucy,
If you aren't happy with the first lawyer, seek out another one and continue until you do find someone that you feel comfortable with. If he's paying her bills, that is money coming from the martial assets that you will need to keep track of because it's your money too.
No one is saying to push him, but you need to take care of yourself because no one else is going to do it for you. Yes, it's early on, but he's been thru a couple of marriages and you have to have some idea as to what he did in those to do the DIY divorce kits.
Start calling around and doing some research. BTW, the jobs you had...well...they are still good jobs and there are always people looking for those skill sets. Don't sell yourself short! You are worth far more than a little itty bitty check.
Thank you job. Yes, I'm waiting for a call back from another lawyer.
Would you recommend I say anything to him about the finances, or just not have any contact with him? I've been hesitant to say anything, my instinct is just to pull away, because at this point he's nothing but a big fat liar, and anything he says to me will be hard to believe.
I see no harm in discussing finances, especially the repair work needed on the garage. That has to be addressed and taken care of, i.e., the sooner the better in order for you to sell the home.
If you speak of finances, do not mention you saw the check about the OW. You don't want to tip your hand as to what you know and have seen.
Learn to play your card game properly, i.e., keeping things close to the vest and when to fold. Right now, your cards need to be kept close to the vest.
Job, I feel like he was being nice to get me to do what he wanted, he saw it as an opportunity. When he called, and was so nice, that's when he asked me if he could pick up our second mower. He can't be nice, unless he's getting something from me.
I'm not at the stage yet where I want to deal with him. I want to just pull away, and let things be a bit, I'm not ready to push him, I just can't yet, I need to be a bit more stable myself.
As far as qualifications, I don't know. I've not had a real job since 2003, I've always had my own small businesses that I ran, a sewing business, and then a photographer, and then we ran the business together.
You are dead on about the staff too. They feel he is doing something very wrong, and it's hard on them, but he doesn't care. I tried explaining that to my friend so she can understan better what is going od, but it's to late, it's only a job to her, and she doesn't even speak to him.
Sounds like you're super qualified to me! (run multiple small businesses and a restaurant) - I agree with Job, that's a ton of marketable skill, if not an emerging enterprise waiting to happen.
Thank you job, I'm backing off because at this point, I just can't deal with it emotionally. I'm not there yet, I don't even want to talk to him. It's not been that long since I've backed off, and I need to take it at my own pace. Is it right or wrong, I don't know, will it come back to bite me in the butt, maybe, but it's what I need right now. I need to get my emotions in check first.
Thank you PigPen, that's so kind of you to say!! I really appreciate the boost!
Lucy,
Take all the time you need to digest what is going on. Each poster has to move at their own pace. However, while you are digesting this information, you definitely need to protect your finances. If I'm correct, he's going to be spending money very quickly not only on himself, but her as well.
I understand, and I will continue to monitor the account. I'm waiting to hear back from the lawyer before I decide what to do.
I just applied for my first job.........wish me luck. It's a prep cook position at the hospital 20 min from me. I have 2.5 years experience from working in the restaurant, and that should help.
So, H just called my phone. I didn't answer, so he texted, and I didn't respond to that either. He is sending a repair company out to pick up my broken lawn mower, to fix it, and return it to me.
He's finally making attempts to call me, second in a week. This makes me so confused. What if he really is trying? What if being positive and friendly with him was working, along with the letter the DB coach helped me put together? What if avoiding him now pushes him away? I'm feeling so confused!
If he is really trying to do the right thing, he would be working with you to get the garage repaired and be more transparent w/you. If he was really trying, he wouldn't be doing the things he's been doing w/the ow. You are not second best, you are the prize and deserve to be treated w/respect and love and his honesty about what he's doing.
Stay the course. When in doubt, do nothing.
What if going silent, and not pursuing, only makes him think he is not welcomed back home, so he doesn't contact me?
Lucy,
Since he's advised you that he's having someone come repair the mower, you should send a text that says "Thanks". Nothing more. It's okay to be polite when they do things for you. Saying "thanks" or "I appreciate that" are not words used in pursuit.
If he truly wants back, he'll do everything in his power to convince you that he's ready to return and he will drop the ow and become transparent in everything he does. There is no evidence that he's ready to drop her...is there?
Stay the course. Do not pursue!
Lucy,
It's been a while...how are you doing?