So I have been reading the forums for the past 5 weeks.
I have read a lot and taken notes on everyone’s experiences. So here’s mine……On March 22, my W dropped the divorce bomb on me.
The week leading up to the day she called for a divorce, we were sleeping in other rooms and not talking very much because of how I reacted to her not helping me with S2 and our dog during our S2’s learning time with a teacher.
I didn’t talk to her for two days, which I shouldn’t have done, but I am working on how I respond to situations. She then spoke with her brother the following weekend, and on that following Monday after I had put S2 to bed, I came down and she was sobbing.
he sobbed as she said that she wanted a divorce from me. She said she has been unhappy and she was unhappy for the last 3 ½ years.
The first few years of our marriage, we went through a lot. My Mom had passed away due to cancer, and we ended up marrying a year later.
My Mom’s passing really took a toll on me and I went into a really bad depression.
I ended up taking some things out on her and she has always stated that I treated her really bad during that time.
Now she says that I am still the same person and that I don’t know how to handle my anger and I don’t know how to communicate with her.
I do have a hard time communicating and a lot of my issues have been connected back to my childhood when I was physically and emotionally abused by my father.
My wife knows a lot of this as I have been to therapy with her on several occasions for the past 3 years.
I stopped for a few months leading up to the divorce because I thought things were going good.
I should have kept going no matter how good things were going. She had stated that she doesn’t want to be unhappy and she believes she will be happier alone than with me. She doesn’t want to have to worry about me or what mood I am in or how I am going to react.
She said that there is nothing I can do and that she has been down this road before, but the only difference this time was that she is 100% for sure.
Since then, things have been okay. I immediately went out and bought DR and read the entire book in the first week. I have been on this site everyday for the last 5 weeks.
I have been journaling and taking notes.
I have been trying to GAL, but its hard because we both still live at home together.
I have also been trying to detach, but I have had some backslides. I was doing good until last week when W brought up selling the house and why she wanted to sell it asap. I want to stay because I don’t think I can afford to buy another place on my own and I want to keep some stability for our S2.
Its S2’s home too and I don’t want to get rid of it, but at the same time I might want to later just because of all the memories.
During this convo, I told her that she is ruining our lives and that this is her choice and that I will resent her. (I know I went completely against detachment, which I will try not to do again.)
We really don’t talk much and we try to be as cordial as possible.
I don’t write too well, so I hope I don’t confuse you or forget anyting
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Cadet. I have read DR from cover to cover and i am trying my best to apply the LRT since my wife is planning to move out in June.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you Cadet! I really appreciate the advice. I will keep both very close to me.
W is planning to move in with her mom and she wants to take S2 full time. I told W that i don't think that is fair and that he should be able to live with me half of the time. W stated how its an inconvenience for her and that our son should be with the mom most of the time anyways at this age. I told W i don't agree. Is that fair?
If it were me nothing anybody could say or do would stop me from being the BEST DAD I could be.
That is VERY attractive.
And could be the one change that could bring you back together when the time is right.
Thanks Cadet. W said this morning that i can have S2 half of the time. She was worried because i will be moving to my brother's house and he smokes which she does not want around our S2. I told her that he will always smoke outside and she had a hard time believing me, but she said okay. We have both agreed to look for a preschool for S2 somewhere in between both or our jobs.
i need to GAL more.....
This is really taking a toll on me. I could not stop thinking about what is going on and how this will affect our son. W doesn't think it will have any affect on our son as long as we can be amicable. This is so hard!!
There's nothing you can do to make an IMMEDIATE impact in a positive way. You won't be divorced overnight. So take some time to work on making you the best YOU possible. Relax...slow down...and think about what things you want to improve about yourself and your relationship with your son. Then, start doing those things. Stay busy and use this time wisely.
Thank Matt777. Yes, I have been working on myself and trying to GAL as much as I can. There are good days and bad days.
Made a HUGE mistake yesterday and i have backslid quite a bit. I don't know what got into me (maybe feeling lonely), but i started to browse an online dating website (feeling lonely/lost i guess)and W saw my phone and she got really mad and said that the little respect she had for me is now gone. She was really angry and I know why. I really screwed up and I think i might have screwed any chances of me saving my marriage. I dont know what i was thinking......im such an idiot
I really screwed up and I think i might have screwed any chances of me saving my marriage. I dont know what i was thinking......im such an idiot
No - you didnt help yourself however pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back on the right path.
YOU get to decide when your marriage is over,
not her.
I know it doesn't seem like that right now
but the LBS get to decide in the end.
And if you haven't gotten to decide yet then it is not yet THE END.
NICK,
what if you caught your wife on an online dating site, you'd be pi$$ed too, right?
Would you be able to forgive her eventually. Move on. OWN your mistakes and make the changes away from there.
Thank you Cadet for all the advice. I really appreciate it. I feel so alone in this, but you've helped so much. This can be scary at times....
ZEPHYR-Yes, I'd be pissed and sad. I would be able to forgive her, and i hope she can forgive my dumb mistake. I will stay away from there and just focus on improving myself.
W saw my phone and she got really mad and said that the little respect she had for me is now gone. She was really angry and I know why. I really screwed up and I think i might have screwed any chances of me saving my marriage. I dont know what i was thinking......im such an idiot
ZEPHYR-Yes, I'd be pissed and sad. I would be able to forgive her, and i hope she can forgive my dumb mistake. I will stay away from there and just focus on improving myself.
Whoa, hang on a minute guys. The woman said she was 100% sure she was done and wanted a D! She fired Nick as her H and left. She is out of there, so, why should
she be angry at what her LBH does?
Why is she looking at
your phone, Nick?
I hope you are not going to tell me you begged and pleaded with her to forgive you, and you don't know what got into you and would never do it again......and so on....and so on. Why? B/c of this line right here:
"she got really mad and said that the little respect she had for me is now gone". It is complete WAW manipulation and script.
In fairness to Zephyr, I get where this is coming from.)
Here's the thing, Nick. A WW/WAW is okay with dumping the guy, and she may think she's done with him. However, that does not mean she wants her vacated position to be replaced by somebody new. Oh, no! It is not okay that
she gets dumped!!
Yes, by all means focus on improving yourself, especially your anger issues. However, the sooner she gets her eyes opened to how life will be without you.......the better. Most WW/WAW's want everything on their terms, and think they should get to call the shots even after giving up the man she had. What you should have done is respond by telling her that you are simply moving on with your life, which she made abundantly clear...would be without her. But the key is to stay as cool as a cucumber and don't get in a tizzy over her being upset. She's made her decision, so aren't you free to make decisions? If she's going to be free, she needs to accept the fact she is setting you free, also.
Don't get me wrong, Nick. B/C you are new and may not be familiar with how I write. I'm not trying to encourage you to get off into another relationship or anything. I am telling you from the VP of the WW/WAW, and as the old saying goes....it takes one to know one.
I just wanted to address that last incident before getting off into something else.
So, to change the subject just a tad, when you say you treated her terribly, can you break that down a little more? Did you ever get physical with her, throw or hit things, threaten anything? Did you yell, call her bad names, degrade her, make fun of her, etc. I know you said you would go days without talking, but usually people who have anger issues tend to do more than just give the silent treatment. Have you started back to therapy?
I believe some WAW's can have a legit reason for leaving. I noticed, however, she didn't say anything about not feeling safe for her or her baby. Perhaps you skirted around it, IDK. I'm just saying if you were really bad to her, she probably had good reason to leave. But then I have to wonder why she would be willing to leave her baby with you 50% of the time, if she did not feel he'd be safe. I mean, if she doesn't want him around second hand smoke.......I would think she was concerned about his well being.
BTW, what did you mean about her not helping you take care of him?
There is another type, and that is the wayward wife. That is when she turns away from the values she's always lived by, to pursue a lifestyle far removed from the woman you married. It may be an affair (which can be EA/PA/IA/Internet), addiction to those "adult" sites on the Internet, wild partying, gambling, or whatever. If that is true in this case, and you haven't noticed any signs, it probably means she has kept it well hidden from you. If she's involved in a wayward style, it will be revealed soon enough. But I'm not saying she
is. I just get suspicious when a young woman, who has a very little child, suddenly decides she hasn't been happy during her short marriage. But maybe you made her life that miserable.....I just don't know at this point. All we know for sure is that she has walked away from the M.
Thank you so much for your time and words of advice, Sandi2!
Why is she looking at
your phone, Nick?
-I accidentally left it on the kitchen counter and when i went outside to help with groceries, she saw my phone.
I hope you are not going to tell me you begged and pleaded with her to forgive you, and you don't know what got into you and would never do it again......and so on....and so on. Why? B/c of this line right here:
"she got really mad and said that the little respect she had for me is now gone". It is complete WAW manipulation and script.
-I didnt plead or beg. I just said that I thought we were both moving on? I asked why she was so mad when she is the one who wants to divorce me.
Don't get me wrong, Nick. B/C you are new and may not be familiar with how I write. I'm not trying to encourage you to get off into another relationship or anything. I am telling you from the VP of the WW/WAW, and as the old saying goes....it takes one to know one.
--Okay, I understand. I told myself yesterday that i dont need to be there and that i should just focus on improving myself.
So, to change the subject just a tad, when you say you treated her terribly, can you break that down a little more? Did you ever get physical with her, throw or hit things, threaten anything? Did you yell, call her bad names, degrade her, make fun of her, etc. I know you said you would go days without talking, but usually people who have anger issues tend to do more than just give the silent treatment. Have you started back to therapy?
--I never got physical with, although W has hit me on two separate occasions. I never threw or hit things (i did slam a door or slam my cup down on the counter at times). W has smashed our wedding pictures and a coffee pot, but she always says that i caused her to do that because she has never done that with any of her boyfriends in the past. I tell her that boyfriends and marriage is completely different. There were times when I would threaten divorce out of anger and in the 1st two years of our marriage we both called each other names and criticize each other. Things have improved over the last year. I still go to therapy, although i didn't go from December to March because things were actually going really well in our marriage, but looking back, i should've kept going.
I believe some WAW's can have a legit reason for leaving. I noticed, however, she didn't say anything about not feeling safe for her or her baby. Perhaps you skirted around it, IDK. I'm just saying if you were really bad to her, she probably had good reason to leave. But then I have to wonder why she would be willing to leave her baby with you 50% of the time, if she did not feel he'd be safe. I mean, if she doesn't want him around second hand smoke.......I would think she was concerned about his well being.
--She did state that she was worried about our S2 being around 2nd hand smoke and I told her that my brother already told me he would not smoke in the house or around the kids. She sarcastically replied with "i'm sure he's really going to stop." She asked why i would stay there when i don't even like the 2nd hand smoke. I responded by telling W that i really dont have a choice since she wants to sell our house and i cant afford to buy a place yet. She has also stated on several occasions that I am a great person, husband, and father, but that i'm just not right for her and that she is not happy in our marriage. Last week she told me that I am the best father she could possibly ask for her son and that I am such a great person, but that i am not the one for her.
BTW, what did you mean about her not helping you take care of him?
--Recently, W has gone out last minute leaving me with our son, which i don't mind, but not at the last minute. A few weekends ago, she went out late, and couldn't do anything the next day because she had a hangover. She doesn't get drunk often, but she shouldn't be doing that with a 2 year old son at home.
--I am very confident that she isn't having an EA or PA. I asked her earlier this week and she said there is no OM. In regards to making her life miserable, i know we had some rough times especially after my Mom passed, but since then things have been really good except for the occasional argument.
W also complained that i was never there for her, i never told her how great of a person she was, and i never showed how much i appreciate her. I am confused on this because i would write her small love notes, put little surprises in her lunch box, get chocolate for her once a month, etc. I guess she wants me to be there for her in other ways.....emotionally?
Nick ... welcome .. well if there is such a thing .. feels like rolling out the red carpet to a dive bar no one wants to really be in but the people are amazing and atleast the beer is cold.
Sandi took the words out of my mouth a bit .. she is amazing in how she can spot things. My ears perked up with the response to the phone. Yeah you should not have done it but if anything it planted a seed. I seem to side with Sandi/Starsky on how to not baby the WW, they do need to feel what life is like without you, even my MLC'r seemed to change her tune when she truly realized I was happy to move on ... not an act .. its how I truly felt.
So juts a question on the following below
--I am very confident that she isn't having an EA or PA. I asked her earlier this week and she said there is no OM. In regards to making her life miserable, i know we had some rough times especially after my Mom passed, but since then things have been really good except for the occasional argument.
I did the same, Sept 13, Oct 13, and guess what .. in Jan 14 it was confirmed ... and it started as 'friends' in July 14 and progressed into OM EA by Sep 13, then PA by who knows when .. guessing Jan 14. She most likely did not decide to just want a D all the sudden ... I would guess by the little you have shared ... her going out and tying one on .. there is a OM in the distance, or atleast the fantasy of one, be careful there ... you truly never know, just as you did not see the BD coming ... you might not see the OM ... I am not saying there is one but do not count it out.
Now on to the DB'ing. I agree .. be the best father you can be ... and thats regardless of your M, he is your son and will need you around his entire life, if you do not step up now it will be a huge mistake. I know I just was terrified at the thought of my S doing 'Father - Son' type things with anyone but me ... would be a OM^2 .. like a double whamy.
You do need to GAL, and do something that really helps your PMA, I too had/battle the anger thing. Like you I lost my Father, W felt she was the punching bag, I did not feel I treated her that way but looking back at that dark time in my life, I lost my father (we were close), hated my job, and was not really thrilled with the state of my M. So yeah I get it ... its alot of work to start sorting through what makes you angry, and even more work to start changing and fixing those triggers and issues that are fueling the rage.
The good thing, you are here, there are amazing people who can truly help you... they are extremely intelligent, and better yet .. have been right where you have found yourself. Pay attention and learn, take the advice ... use it. It truly works.
W also complained that i was never there for her, i never told her how great of a person she was, and i never showed how much i appreciate her. I am confused on this because i would write her small love notes, put little surprises in her lunch box, get chocolate for her once a month, etc. I guess she wants me to be there for her in other ways.....emotionally?
I know we are not supposed to discuss books n stuff ... but this kind of screams that she is speaking a different love language than you are ... food for thought and might be worth further research.
I guess she wants me to be there for her in other ways.....emotionally?
For sure! Wants you for her BFF! Don't fall for any of it. And those reasons she gave for leaving? A bunch of "stuff" is all she's giving you.
Thank you, CaliGuy and Sandi2.
CaliGuy-this community has been amazing so far and i truly appreciate all the caring people on this forum. I do have some 2nd thoughts as to whether or not she has OM. I guess I'm stuck in the mode of "trusting" everything she says. I will keep my focus on our S2 and the thought of S2 hanging out with OM, if there is one, kills me. I have been soul searching quite a bit and trying to GAL at the same time. I think GAL will be easier once W moves out in June.
Sandi2-
Sandi2-do you mean don't fall for her reasons? Do you think that the reasons she gave are not the real reasons? Sorry if i misunderstood.
W just told me that she will be taking S2 %100 of the time and that he can't stay with me at my brother's. She also said she will not be moving to her Mom's and she will stay in the house until we sell. Should I stay at home or move to my brother's now? I really feel I need some space from her to do LRT.
Nick ... regardless if there is an OM or not ... it does not matter (Well the pain hurts like heck ... but not to get sidetracked here...) Thing is many LBS's ... myself included become obsessed with the OM, or the thought of one, it takes away from what you need to do.
As far as the W taking S 100% of the time, as a parent you have rights, do not allow her to use nor threaten that ... its boundary setting time in that area, she needs to know if she pushes through with this you will fight tooth and nail for your right as a parent for no less than 50%. The fantasy bubble she has in her head about what life will be like needs to be popped.
As far as moving ... nope. YOU stay, she wants this not you, if she stays ... great, but you do not go anywhere. Its a common question/issue here. You stay in the house, in your bed, in your bedroom, if she wants to move out, sleep on the couch, whatever thats on her ... you stay.
Update: W came upstairs to speak with me last night about our sitch. She apologized for getting mad at me that i was on a dating website. W then started talking about our R and how things were (good and bad). W started to cry. I validated all of her feelings about how i wasn't there for her emotionally, how she thought i perceived her, and how i didn't have her back. W said that she doesn't think i have to make so many changes for her and vice versa. W believes that we should marry people who we don't have to make changes for. I validated her feelings and responded with "I believe we will always need to make changes in a relationship and even in my next relationship i expect to make changes."
We finished the conversation talking about selling the house and whether the sitch is affecting S2. I told W that I would like to stay in the house to keep a little stability for S2, but she wants to sell asap. I ended the conversation and told her we can discuss this another time as it was almost 2am.
W also told me this morning that we can split custody 50/50.
Thank you, CaliGuy. W agreed to a 50/50 split of custody. I did tell her that i will not be moving out and that she is more than welcome to stay. Still trying to GAL. Going to an air show tomorrow with S2 and then we will be hanging out with his cousin. This is so hard.....
It is incredibly hard. Keep your chin up!
While you are soul searching, think about your values and beliefs. Know your own heart and determine what is most important to you in this life.
If you learned that there had been an OM in the picture, would it be a deal breaker for you?
Sandi2-do you mean don't fall for her reasons? Do you think that the reasons she gave are not the real reasons?
You may not have given her the emotional connection she needed to feel, but there's something that seems
off. She could have used your anger issue against you in a big way.
That would make more sense, to me, rather than what she's giving as her reasons for leaving. Not that you've physically hurt her or S2, but women can build a convincing case against a man who people know is angry all the time.
Do you remember times that she tried to talk to you about needing you to "be there for her", or to appreciate her more, and telling her how great she is (did she really say that?).
Some(not all) people who have very low self-esteem and a lot of insecurities, have trouble ever getting
enough emotional food from their S. It's been my experience to see women like this become hypersensitive, but I'm sure that is not the case with all.
I am just trying to be fair to her. The most sense she made (according to what you've said) was the part about not wanting to worry about what kind of mood you would be in every day, and being mad all the time. I would also think being on the receiving end of your silent treatments (days at a time) could be pretty miserable.
Do you know what she meant about you having a problem communicating? Does she mean that you won't talk about your feelings, or is it something else? Have you considered actually getting help with it?
My gut tells me that she's not being completely upfront about what's
really going on. I mean, you stopped therapy b/c you thought things were going so good. How did things change that caused you to believe they were better?
Don't be surprised if she will wants to keep you emotionally hanging by a thread. Beware of her saying she wants you both to be the best of friends, or always be friends, etc. It can become a trap for the LBH, b/c he sees it as an avenue to get closer to her and hopefully reconcile. However, she is not thinking along those line at all. She will use and abuse....all in the name of "friendship". If you tell her "no", she'll throw it in your face, "I thought you said we could be friends!" You cannot be her BFF. You can be polite and civil, but don't make the mistake of saying you'll be her friend. Anyone can be her friend, but only one person gets to be her husband. Don't settle for less.
In the meantime, I hope you will consider, seriously, returning to therapy. Did the therapist say your anger was due to the childhood trauma? Has the therapist ever said that is why you have a communication problem, or has it ever been mentioned?
Hi Sandi2-doing a lot of soul searching and self-assessments. No, OM would not be a deal breaker me. Probably very sad....but I know that i played a part in why my W would seek other support.
Thank you, Sandi2!! I will reply to your post when i get back to my computer.
Yes, W did use my anger against me, especially after i started going to therapy and anger management classes. When we would argue we both said nasty things to each other and we both pushed each others' buttons. If anything, it seems as though she has the anger problems now, which she might blame on me.
I don't ever remembering W asking me to be there for her more. Her main complaint throughout our marriage was how i handled my anger. She wanted me to control myself more, which i have learned through going to therapy. She never mentioned to the therapist about me not being there for her. As for me appreciating her and treating her like she is a great wife, i had told her that i have written several little love notes and get little gifts for her once a month, but i admit we haven't gone out on a date since S2 was born. W mentioned last night that she wants me to make her feel as though she is great, and i told her i do think great. She stated that she doesn't care for those things, she wants me to make her feel better when she does something wrong instead of me getting frustrated. I think we both do the same, but i know what she means.
In regards to the part about not wanting to worry about what kind of mood im going to be in everyday, i had told her that she needs to give me a chance to improve, which i have. She says that she worries, but i haven't had those moods in over a year. Things have improved with more time that has passed since my Mom passed away, and therapy, which i have started back since March. In regards to the communication part, i do have a problem communicating my thoughts and feelings. I have and continue to work on this in therapy and W knows my issues and that i have been working with my therapist. Yes, my therapist has
said that my anger issues and communication problems are due to my childhood and how i was raised. I was physically and mentally abused a lot by my father. W knows about it.
I stopped going to therapy in part because things had improved and I also got really busy with work. We weren't arguing, we were laughing and having fun together, and it felt like we were closer. I never shouldv'e stopped going to therapy and i know now, that even if i feel good about things and im communicating better, i should still go.
Wow! Woke up this morning to throw the trash out and I find our wedding pictures in the trash. I ask W why she did that and she said what are you going to do with them. We don't need them. I told W that it wasn't nice of her to throw the pictures away and it's my pictures too as that she should've asked me before she threw them out. What does everyone think?
that was a chitty thing to do
Well, I guess it says something about how she is feeling right now - ugh - that must have been hard. When I went to our marital home a couple of months ago, I had been completely erased from the house. H had taken down any wedding pictures and replaced them with pics of him and SS. Ouch!
IMHO, I would make a simple statement like - W, if you want to throw out things that are 'ours' please ask me if I want them first. I don't want to find our posessions in the trash can without having first been consulted.
Maybe others will have some better wording, but JMHO...
Yes, Toots it was hard seeing our wedding pictures in the trash. I did ask her to ask me first before throwing out any of our things. She stated she didn't see a reason to keep them and I responded by telling her that it would be nice to have and maybe S2 might want to see them when he's older. I can't believe she threw our wedding pictures in the trash
W can be so mean and cold. One minute she will be pleasant and then the next minute she'll throw our pictures in the trash can. I still cant get over her throwing our wedding pictures away. it at the point where i almost just want this to all end.
I dont know what to do. I know about detachment, but it seems like its pushing W farther away. she does try to initiate conversation but its about S2. W did ask me to go to MOther's day brunch with her and her Mom, but this was a few weeks ago. Should i still go?
Yesterday i saw on our calendar that she will be having a "Mommy and Son" day for the next 4 Saturdays. I haven't said anything to her yet, but i dont know how to approach her.
W can be so mean and cold.
Very true, and that pretty much sums it up in a few words. You can't deal with her as though she is still the same person you M, b/c she's changed. The times she acts somewhat nice, be careful b/c usually it means she's buttering you up for something she wants.
I know about detachment, but it seems like its pushing W farther away.
Actually, you have said what I call
LBH script. That is what many H's say, but it only appears that she's getting farther away due to your detachment.....or else you aren't detaching the correct way.
If she's not able to manipulate you, she's not going to like it. If she's not able to cake eat, she's not going to like it. If she can't disrespect you, or anything else that doesn't suit her.....she's not going to like it. These are the days and time of the stitch that are so painful for the LBH b/c he wants to see immediate results to his actions (detachment) and when he doesn't, it scares him into thinking it's not working.
I think in most cases the WAW will get farther away before coming back. Let it happen, and don't fear it. She has to experience life without you. It will get worse, but that doesn't mean the end result will not be good.
Did you tell her you would go with her to the Mother's Day brunch? If you have a good relationship with your MIL, then go for her sake. After this, stop serving WAW
cake and playing like you're still a happy couple (which is probably why she wants you to make an appearance, to keep mom from asking questions).
That's really crappy about the wedding pictures.
I can only imagine how incredibly hurt you felt, and with good reason.
So W tells me that our realtor strongly suggest to paint the house and replace the carpet. I don't care to spend money on the house if were going to sell it. W says we call sell it a lot faster if we paint and do carpet. I dont want to,but is right for me to fight this?
Should i just give in and help with getting the paint and carpet done?
I also asked her today about Mother's Day. I stated that if she didnt want me there then i wouldnt do and she said its best that i not go. So i am not going. MIL knows about divorce and has been supportive of me.
I dont think i am detaching correctly. How do i detach when i still live with W and we see each other everyday?
if i agree to help W sell our house am I not detaching? I have been doing the little things for her still such as take down all the TV Wall mounts and some of the heavy frames. I am also doing other things such as helping her with the groceries and her bags when she comes home. Should i stop doing these things as part of the detachment?
Do what YOU want to do. And not just things that you THINK she wants.
Thank you, Mr. Bond! sometimes its so hard because i dont want to do or say the wrong thing. I need to stop worrying about whether or not its going to my W mad. I do need to just worry about what i want
"sometimes its so hard because i dont want to do or say the wrong thing."
It's called ANALYSIS PARALYSIS.You can get over it.
"I need to stop worrying about whether or not its going to my W mad. I do need to just worry about what i want"
EXACTLY! BUT also continue to change for the better.
I like that Mr. Bond.....ANALYSIS PARALYSIS. it happens a lot to me.
Journaling:
Last night I asked W to please communicate with me when she is going to do something in regards to our property, S2, divorce, anything regarding the two of us. Then our S2 starts throwing a tantrum while playing with W. W then just bolts and goes upstairs without saying anything leaving S2 on the floor crying. I asked W what was going on and she just said let him come upstairs. i wasnt sure what was going on and i kept asking W to tell me. She didnt tell me and i asked her once again to please start communicating more in regards to things involving both of us. She got angry saying that she did tell me what was going on by saying "let him just come upstairs." I then told her that I would like her to communicate more and that i can't force her to, but im just letting her know how i feel. She then responded with Shut the F up," which i then just said okay and went upstairs.
W then came down later and started talking to me about custody of S2 and i agreed with everything. I think she was a little irritated that i didnt resist her on any of her requests. I am trying not to let things she says and does bother me. Getting there.....
if i agree to help W sell our house am I not detaching?
Nick, read this post I copied and pasted about detaching. I think it will help you understand better.
As for painting the house and laying new carpet, it probably would help get a better sell. I wouldn't spend a lot, but a little cosmetic work never hurts.
I have been doing the little things for her still such as take down all the TV Wall mounts and some of the heavy frames. I am also doing other things such as helping her with the groceries and her bags when she comes home. Should i stop doing these things as part of the detachment?
Does she show appreciation when you do these things? Does she ask for your help, say thank you, etc.? Does she yell for you to do it? You don't have to be a jerk, in the name of detaching. But neither should she act like a shrew, and demand you do things for her. You just have to use your best judgement on this, until you get more information.
I need to stop worrying about whether or not its going to my W mad. I do need to just worry about what i want
Exactly! What's she going to do? She's already leaving you, right? Do not be a "Yes Dear" kind of guy.
Last night I asked W to please communicate with me when she is going to do something in regards to our property, S2, divorce, anything regarding the two of us. Then our S2 starts throwing a tantrum while playing with W. W then just bolts and goes upstairs without saying anything leaving S2 on the floor crying. I asked W what was going on and she just said let him come upstairs. i wasnt sure what was going on and i kept asking W to tell me. She didnt tell me and i asked her once again to please start communicating more in regards to things involving both of us. She got angry saying that she did tell me what was going on by saying "let him just come upstairs." I then told her that I would like her to communicate more and that i can't force her to, but im just letting her know how i feel. She then responded with Shut the F up," which i then just said okay and went upstairs.
Look Nick, there are times when a man needs to stand up to a woman and sound like a man. Know what I mean? Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it makes you sound very weak in the way that went down. All this......please here and please there business. Forget it! You saw how she stormed off leaving the baby there, yelling at you to let him come upstairs to her.......(does he go up and down the stairs by himself?)......and then she gets a nasty, vulgar mouth. And what does Nick do? You did just what that hot mama told you to do!
Take it from a gal that knows a WW b'tch when I see one; you had better start putting your foot down and stand up to her. How can you expect her to be respect you as a man, much less be attracted? No woman wants a man she can treat like dirt while he's saying, "Yes Dear". Act like your mouth works! Act like that kid is yours! What kind of mother does that with a two year old baby? I see why he's throwing a fit, b/c he's learning from her example.
W then came down later and started talking to me about custody of S2 and i agreed with everything.
I suppose the Mother of the Year wants full custody? You are crazy if you agree with it.
I dont think i am detaching correctly. How do i detach when i still live with W and we see each other everyday?
I am in the same sitch. Living under the same roof, and until last week, in the same BR (separate beds). I only kicked my W out of the BR a week ago. That helped a little. Honestly, I don't know how well I am doing at it.
Detaching is not just a physical act - i.e. moving somewhere else and having no contact. It is emotional, too. Probably more emotional than physical. It means not reacting to and not feeling the brunt of your Ws behaviors. This can be achieved by minimizing contact in the house - true. But it can also be achieved by focusing on the other things in your life: Your child, your job, GAL activities. The more immersed you are in these other activities, the better you feel about yourself, the less your Ws actions will impact you. Making a conscious decision to act "as if" will also go a long way. lead with your behaviors, not your feelings.
Sorry you are here, but you are not alone, my friend.
RAI
Thank you, Sandi2 for taking the time to help with my sitch. I re read your post about detaching a couple more times and i feel like i have a better grasp of it.
We will be painting and redoing carpet.
W does not say thank you or show any appreciation. Sometimes she will get irritated if i forget to do something. E.g i forgot to bring S2's socks down and she rolled her eyes and sighed like i did it on purpose. Yesterday i kept telling myself to just do things for me and only if i want to do it. NOT for her, but sometimes i forget out of habit.
In regards to our sitch with S2 the other day, I did go upstairs to tell W that i was just letting her know how i felt about the situation. I told her what i thought was going on based on what she told me. I explained to her how I interpreted the situation. I also told her that i cant force her to do anything or change her ways, but i can communicate my concerns and thoughts to her. I told her i thought she was wrong in how she handled it and walk out of the room. I was really calm the entire time.
W has agreed to 50/50 custody. We'll see how that goes.
So yesterday, W and I discussed separating the finances and custody of S2. We were both very calm throughout the talk. W looked like she was tearing up a little. I stayed calm and confident acting as if i am moving on with life. We agreed to split custody of S2 50/50. We agreed to split finances and such. W has looked over the paperwork and she is in the process of filling it out. She will fill it out and i will look over it to see if i agree before she files. For some reason i feel at peace with the sitch right now. I dont know if i have accepted the sitch or what but i dont feel as bad as i thought i would. W seemed a little sad, and went to bed early last night. Im not sure where to go or what to do from here. I guess just keep working on myself and GAL. Still learning how to detach as well.
Thank you, RAI. Yes, its been tough, but yesterday i felt i did a decent job of detaching during our discussion about custody and finances. The D is getting more real, but i feel like i am becoming better at responding to all of this. its nice to know that we have others going through the same sitch. take care and thanks for the support RAI!
one more thing......during our discussion last night W stated that "i will have an easier time finding someone else, than she will." I told her that Im not even thinking of that at this point and that it doesnt matter to me. W said it two separate times during our discussion. What do you vets think about that statement?
Any update? Come back, Nick!
Update-i've been away for a few days. needed a break from here. i hope everyone is doing better. Things have been better with W. Mother's day was good. Went to brunch with Ws family and it we had a good time. W called later to ask if i wanted to go to dinner with her and her Mom, but i declined because i had to take down the TVs for the painters(not sure if Mom wanted me to go to dinner or W, but it doesn't matter). We split our finances last week and i opened up my own checking account. I also took our S2 to Legoland with his cousin and Uncle, and I shared a few pictures with W when i dropped S2 off with her for dinner. W has been nicer and she has initiated conversation with me. W told me about her day yesterday and even asked about my day. We our currently getting the inside of our house painted and carpet replaced this week, in order to sell it. Since the kitchen cannot be used, W asked if we could just go out to eat, which i agreed, but we just ended up picking up food and taking it back. I have continued to stay clear of W while at home. I stay in the other room and I will spend time with S2 by taking him on walks, to the park, and to play at his cousin's. Over the past 3 days, W has been more talkative with me. I have been reaching some of my short term goals lately:
1. go out with brother and cousin
2. workout 2-3 week
3. cook and do my own laundry
4. spend more time with S2 (i have always been the one to do more with S2, as W doesnt like to go outside, but i want to get as much time with him before we go 50/50)
5. W ask me about my day
6. W tells me about her day
7. W ask me to go out to dinner
8. w ask about how i am doing
9. join a social group (haven't done yet)
10. meditate
11. go grocery shopping
Overall, things have been good. i do wake up daily thinking about my sitch, but everyday it seems to be less and less time that i think about it. btw, W has had D papers for a while and she has stated that she is filling it out, but that was two weeks ago. Is he stalling or is she unsure?? I know i still have a long way to go, but looking back at where i started, i feel like i have made progress. I have read and reread so many posts from Sandi2, Cadet, Wonka, and 25.
Went to IC yesterday, and she told me to tell W that i still want to work on our marriage instead of detaching. I had informed her about this website and she stated that it might be a good idea to let W know that i still want to be married to her. I explained that i have been detaching and trying to improve myself by GAL. I feel really good about things today. I still wake up thinking about how things could be better and how i will miss my family together, but i am also happy with where i have come from since BD. I am worried about how i am going to feel when i move out and when we actually sell the house. I guess i am afraid of the feelings it will bring, but i have learned to try to become more comfortable with the uncomfortable. put one foot in front of the other......
Went to IC yesterday, and she told me to tell W that i still want to work on our marriage instead of detaching. I had informed her about this website and she stated that it might be a good idea to let W know that i still want to be married to her.
If your IC is not familiar with the principles MWD teaches, then you are likely to get mixed messages. Based on what was said about detaching, she (or you) do not understand the DB concept of it.
Are you discussing your M with this IC, or your anger?
Do you think your W doesn't know you had rather stay M to her?
Thank you, Sandi2 for all the support! I was only to give a quick overview of the principles of MWD because our session was cut short. I have been discussing my M with my IC as well as my anger, which i am continuing to work on. When I mentioned some of the principles, my IC was open to it, and I will be telling her more about it next week.
In regards to detaching, I believe that i do have a good handle on what to do, especially with W's recent actions. W has been more talkative lately, she has asked about my day, and she even told me to have a good day. She texts me throughout the day, although most of if is about S2 or the house, but its a start
. W even suggested sleeping in the same room because our house is getting painted, but she ended up sleeping on the couch in the living room. I dont know if W's actions and words are something to get excited about, but its a small step forward. She is still full steam ahead about selling the house, and I have been trying really hard not to "drag" my feet like i did when i found out she wanted to sell. I don't know if W is happy to be moving on or she is happy that i am changing. Oh well, I have to keep reminding myself that this is for me and not for her.
I know my W knows that I'd rather stay with her, so I am not going to tell her again. She knows. I don't want to pursue!
one more thing......during our discussion last night W stated that "i will have an easier time finding someone else, than she will." I told her that Im not even thinking of that at this point and that it doesnt matter to me. W said it two separate times during our discussion. What do you vets think about that statement?
Please place no stock in these type of statements from her. She is baiting you. She wanted to check your emotional status and get the assurance she still has you attached. You assured her the last thing you were considering was finding someone else. Of course, if she were a "normal" W, this would be what you should tell her. But she's not. She is a WAW, and I think she's playing games with you.
I don't know if W is happy to be moving on or she is happy that i am changing.
Too soon to tell if she's happy about your changes. Usually, it makes a WAW mad that it took her leaving for him to finally change. If there really is no waywardness in her heart, she may be glad about your improvements, but I think she's keeping something covered up. Time will tell.
Back Sandi up here (when are you going to visit NDY, me and Pyrite - we miss you!) my W has used that line on me. When I asked if she was going to try and get somebody else, I couldn't ask personal questions. Then she asked me and I told her I would; her face could have started a riot in a nunnery. It was if I'd told her the world was going to end.
Welcome to the rollercoaster from hell. Buckle up. Spew will come at you from all angles. Enjoy your ride.
Sandi2 W did bait me. I wish i would've seen it coming, but now I know. Thanks, Sandi2!
In regards to her happiness, I think you are right. She is hiding something and i have a this gut feeling that she is talking to OM. I try to not think about it too much because i know i have no control over what W does or who she sees. So i really try not to think about it at all in order to keep me from trying to figure out what's going on in W's mind. Ugh, now my mind is racing. STOP SIGN! i have to just keep focusing on myself and continue to improve how i am and how i think about things. Continuing to GAL. Going to adventure city tomorrow with S2 and my brother and his S3. looking forward to another fun day! Thanks again, Sandi2!
Huddy, i dont know if i am ready for the ride,but i will hang on!
Someone posted on my thread this advice but I can't remember who.
I have added a rubber band to my wrist. Any time I think about snooping or my W and OM, I give it a nice snap. Stops that right quick.
In the end, I keep thinking to myself how all of my actions and words over the past 3 1/2 years have pushed my W away and maybe to OM. I truly accept a lot of responsibility for my W getting to this point. I really wasn't there for her when i was depressed after my Mom passed away. I wasn't there at all. I stayed on the couch most weekends, and i was never there for her emotionally or physically. Over these past few weeks, i have realized a lot and i hope that i can show W through my actions that its not worth it to give up on our M. I hope we can fall in love again!
Had an ok weekend. Took S2 to Adventure City with his cousin and Uncle. Our house is painted and ready to sell. We are putting the house up for sale this friday.
Yesterday, W and i were talking about my Auntie who is very sick. She was telling me how my cousin's wife will be learning how to cook the traditional food for our family on special occasions, and i mentioned that maybe i might find someone who will help her do the cooking. W gave me a dirty look and two minutes later she told me she was going outside to make a phone call. She went all the way across the street to talk, which she has never done. Later that night i see a new event that she put on our calendar which is a birthday of a male co-worker. I know this co worker is recently divorced and he works in the same department as W. What should i do? I know i shouldn't let it bother me, but it does and i dont know how to handle it if she is talking to OM.
This feeling is heart wrenching!
Nick
If there is an OM .. and thats an IF from what I can tell ... anything you do will only add fuel to the fire, you just proved as much by even mentioning someone 'possibly' helping cook , that in return gave your W the 'ok' to be a bit more brandish about the possiblity of her exploring 'others' or a replacement for you. Do not play that game.
As far as OM's are concerned .... I was giving this some thought over the weekend ... I too had issues with this area, still do ... I think us guys focus so much more on the OM as a threat to our M that we fail to look at the big picture ... sure if OM were gone our M would be all daiseys and rainbows right?? NO ... the fact we allowed the M to get to a level the W might go that way is the bigger issue, we failed to meet her needs so she went elsewhere to have them met, and while she is with a OM those needs are being met by another ... thats what kills, being replaced, but nothing we can do at this point about that other than working on ourselves to be a man who could meet those needs if the WAW chooses to return, these changes take time, longer still for the WAW to believe they are real and will stick.
Take my advice .. do not waste the energy on the OM, you will only make her want that more .. .instead turn that energy inward and work on you. I know its hard ... trust me ... but its the only way.
Thank you so much CaliGuy! I understand what you mean by adding fuel to the fire. I will not say those types of things to W.
In regards to OM (if there is one), I see what you mean about the big picture. In the end, it falls on me and i really can just focus on myself and improving my life. I know my actions brought W to this point of wanting to find OM, but it does kill inside. The thought of it is painful, but i need to look at myself. Thanks again, CaliGuy for the advice!
its been almost 2 months since W BD. I feel good on some days, but today i feel as if im not making progress. W and I will talk to each other about S2, but we don't interact much other than that. W and I go to separate rooms once S2 goes to bed. W is online or texting on her phone throughout the night. I try to stay away from her, but its hard when she is downstairs all the time. W will be very cold one minute, and then the next minute she will tell me something nice about S2 or our dog.
I dont know what to think anymore. I know i have to be patient and just focus on myself. I wake up a lot during the night and its hard to go back to sleep when i start thinking about our sitch.
I also noticed that W put a co-worker's birthday on our calendar. Im not sure if he is OM, but i have a little feeling inside that he is. I saw some weight loss pills on the counter that W is taking and she has been very conscious about her weight lately. I know, i should let what W does affect me, but its hard.
W also told me this weekend that she is now going to move out of our house in June and i will stay until it is sold. W will be going to her mom's. This is her 3rd time changing her mind on this issue.
As far as my progress, i have been GAL a little bit, but not as much as id like. I workout 3 times a week. I hang out with friends on Thursdays and sometimes Fridays. I usually take S2 to the park or some event on saturdays with his cousin and uncle. I journal everyday and i meditate. I find that meditating is very beneficial to how i think and how i feel, so i really want to improve on my meditating.
Oh and W will be going out of town somewhere with someone. I asked her where she was going and she said it was none of my business. She just stated that S2 will be with me that weekend and she will be gone. Should I even are where she is going? I think i should at least know where she is at in case something happens?
In your W's mind .. the M is over, and all her actions are in line with this. I would suspect like you .. with all you have mentioned that there is an OM ... again .. she is WAW and this is not out of the norm but what she is doing is out of your control
Asking her where she is going ... no. What you need to do is plan something cool and fun with S and act like you could not give a poo about what she is doing .... she fired you ... its time to work on you ... GaL PMA and 180 your tail off. She no doubt is bracing for you to get all up in her face about where she is going and with who ... this will only drive her to get as far away from you as fast as she can. Don't give her that. Act like it does not matter, you are a responsible parent you can handle S2 with or without her.
I know it stinks ... but you have to do you right now. if she is going to toss your M out the window .. .nothing you can do about that. You can walk with grace and dignity .. guilt free ... your M means something to you ... be the bigger person here.
Thanks CaliGuy. Im going to plan a great weekend with S2. I will continue to 180 and GAL. I have to keep telling myself that i have no control over what W does, but i do have control over how i respond and react. Sometimes, i cant believe that i drove my W to this point of throwing out our marriage.
I went to have a beer with some co workers (GAL) and when I came home W doesn't say a word. I said hello and no response. While I was playing with S2 W has her back against the wall texting almost like she wants to make sure no one can see her texts.
Feeling okay today. W didnt say a word to me this morning. I asked her if we could share the guacamole for lunch and she said no. I was going to reply, but i just left the room(my 180. usually i would have said something). I dont know if i am doing things right, but i know i am trying. GAL is hard with both of us living together. Trying to distance myself from W and do my own thing, but it seems as though W is getting more mad, the more distance i put between us and the more i GAL/detach. She is also becoming more distant as well, so why is she getting irritated with me?
Try not to focus on her too much, Nick. She can be mad, happy, sad, whatever, but it doesn't really affect the journey you're on.
Stay strong, buddy.
So we are preparing our house to put it up for sale next week. W wanted me to help with some of the cleaning and organizing. I usually do all the cleaning (dishes, floors, bathrooms, etc), but i decided that im not going to be W's slave, so i cleaned up my belongings and my room and that was it. I ended up going to a game board night, which was a lot of fun to just be out. W seemed irritated when i got home as she didnt say a word to me.
I then turn on the tv and W comes down to sit on the couch with me. Doesnt say a word the entire 2 hours, but just goes on her phone, whether she is texting or playing a game i dont know. Every time i got up, she turned as if i was looking at her phone. She was very obvious in her movements. I dont know what W is up to and i dont know what to think or do from here. Is my detaching working? Should i apply LRT?
if i was the one who always did all the cleaning and organizing, should i stop doing those things as part of my 180?
W texted me asking if i was going to do anything with S2 on Memorial Day. I texted W that i would tell her by EOD. She replied never mind, its okay. I then texted her that she can spend the day with S2, since I've had S2 the last two weekends. did i respond in the right manner? am i detaching correctly?
as long as what you did was for you (you already had plans) or/and your son (he wanted to go with mamma) and not for dher, then you did fine. if your response was for her benefit...to gain points with her, then you can try again next time.
so many emotions and thoughts going through my head right now. Looking back at our marriage, i've come to accept that i have caused my W so much pain and emptiness over the last few years. W would complain that i never wanted to do anything but stay at home and watch tv or just hang out (i was going through a bad depression after the passing of my Mom). She would complain about how i was not there for her emotionally. I had always told her that she wasnt there for me when i was going through the depression, but now i realize what she means by me not being there for her during that time. Before, i would get angry at her saying that i wasnt there for her, but now i realize that I wasnt there for her during that time. I wasnt the man i shouldve been and i really let my W down during those two years. I used to always complain that we never had sex, but after some self reflection, i realized that its all my fault. I didnt do anything romantic or sexual for her. I never put her in the mood. I just expected it without putting in any work. i was such a selfish husband. This forum, DR, and time has allowed me to sort of understand what my WAW is going through. I just hope that i can change myself, my behaviors, my personality, and my life so that i can be a happy, stable person and father. I dont know if my W will ever reconcile, but i hope that i can make the necessary changes to become a better person.
Thanks Zephyr. My response was for my benefit because i wanted a day to hang out with friends on my own. I am curious about where she is going, but i tell myself that it shouldnt matter. DETACH.
W just took me off her list of followers on Instagram, so i cant see picture of S2 anymore. Should this bother me? It kind of does, but i know that i shouldnt care. I have a feeling W will unfriend me on facebook soon. just a little blow to the heart for some reason.