http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2561315&page=1Sorry, trouble with the links tonight.
Sometimes I feel like STBX is deliberately setting out to kill every scrap of love or good feeling I've ever had for him.
Hey Maybell -- just checking on you. Sorry to hear about the work dinner. Is there a way you can avoid looking into those things, as they are likely to be a source of pain? I mean, really, who cares what he's up to -- and you got to have quality time with the kids. I find that NC means (for me) not just not contacting H but also not looking him up online, on Facebook, etc.
I just don't need that in my life. The other bonus is that is drives a narcissist crazy to be ignored. They want to think that we are wallowing in sadness or anger without them. Don't give him the satisfaction. Just get on with your awesome life without him.
Hi, Ahoy, thanks for stopping by!
I didn't go snooping at all. I was reviewing the finances as I always do and it just popped right out at me. I don't want to know what he's up to and I've just decided to assume that he lies 80% of the time. I never look at his Facebook or anything, and there is even one credit card statement I just hand over unopened, so he has plenty of ways to pull things over on me without it ever coming to light. I had thought that the tiny amount of time he spends with the kids that he actually wanted to see them, though. It was aggravating to find he was willing to do that to THEM.
I did not confront because it would have opened a can of worms I wasn't interesting in dealing with. CAN'T WAIT TILL THIS IS DONE.
Sometimes I feel like STBX is deliberately setting out to kill every scrap of love or good feeling I've ever had for him.
Hello Maybell,
This must be common with STBX's. My W seems to be doing the same thing to me.
Let's hang in there together!
(((((Maybell)))))
I wish you well.
Bob
Hi Maybell.
You say you checked your regular finances. So this payment was from a joint card. In which case, yes confront.
It's out of order to pay anything other than regular financial bills. That goes for work stuff too. If this 'work dinner' wasn't work and couldn't be put on his work card, the he has to pay cash or put it on another personal card.
That is a boundary. And he must repay the full amount as soon as possible.
If the can is full of worms, they will die one by one in the face of your tough stance.
(Not so) Old Dog xx
Like Not So Old Dog said, this is a boundary that needs to be enforced.
OD, my impression was not that it was about the money, but that it was about STBX asking Maybell to take the kids while he went on a date to a place he never took her. That should be a boundary for sure, but a tough one to enforce for me --see raliced's thread from yesterday.
RPP has it mostly right -- the issue is that he took some floozy out of town and called it a "work dinner" on a night that he was supposed to have the kids. He only has them 4 nights a month plus two hours a week and doesn't call in between. But he made a fuss when I delivered my settlement draft that he wanted enough money to be a "good father." So -- which is it? You want to be a good father? Or you want enough money to take floozies out like a high roller?
Anyway I found a third way and all will be well.
OK wrong emphasis. But damned annoying. Some of the thing I do, I find myself thinking I wish I could be doing this with WW and it's then hard to banish those thoughts. Even worse are the ones where you're wondering what they're up to with you.
Still a financial boundary though.
OD, he makes 9x what I make, and I've only been working a few months. If he's spending money it's joint, period. There really is no other kind of money to spend. There is no financial boundary for me to enforce (yet) and no way to enforce it even if I could make one up. He's gonna do what he's gonna do.
I'm kind of over the desire to spend time with him so him going off to spend a weekend with a floozy doesn't bother me because we could be doing it together. The number of ways in which he has acted with callous disregard for my interests has pretty much killed my desire for the marriage. See the first post of this thread.
Ha, yes I know. I was just thinking of myself ... again.
While my D is already final, I understand EXACTLY what you mean about him trying to call any love you ever had for him. I loved the man my XH used to be, but the one he has become is a virtual stranger to me and I don't like him at all. It almost makes the D worth it all because I am away from him.
Hang in there...it DOES get better. I advocate marriage all the way, but sometimes people change and time away is the best thing.
Horrible evening with D12. At one point I even thought she'd left the house but had only gone up to bed. I personally am in a demanding situation at the moment and it's a strain trying to bring home happy family mom under these circumstances. She caught me off guard. She's been really pleasant lately. I don't have a good set of strategies for dealing with entitled behavior. And honestly I couldn't even remember what prompted it all until S9 asked S7.
STBX is out of town on another little pleasure jaunt. I have been sweeping through the house getting it ready to sell. On one hand the bits I've finished look great. It makes me sad we never lived with it looking so well-cared-for because of BD and the aftermath. But then too it looks really impersonal. That is totally part of what D12 finds so upsetting. After she finished her meltdown and I was working on the house I was so tired and wanted to stop, but I have to keep going because time is winding down. And I thought, how much of this rough day would have been avoided if STBX had better life skills?
If wishes were pennies....
Two last things:
1) I found the family scrapbook that I made at the end of BD year. It was beautifully made and pretty much heartbreaking. But looking through it didn't make me cry.
2) I had thought I would clean out the wedding stuff I keep in a chest in my bedroom. But when I looked at it... I couldn't. This marriage may not have been very good, and it certainly ended badly, but it was the defining characteristic of my life for seventeen years. I made plenty of mistakes, but there is a lot about myself that was developed during those years. A lot of growth and good choices. A lot about myself that I like that came to the surface during those years.
Today I told my coworker what I loved about STBX.
He was hard to reach, but when I managed it, he had this inner quality that was just utterly soft and lovable. It made me want to coax it out more often.
He had a smile that was warm and beautiful and utterly sexy. I have not seen it in a very long time. He doesn't look like he can produce it anymore, which makes me sad.
I didn't mention this to my coworker but he was a very good kisser.
D12 keeps telling me to smile, and I feel badly about that. There is SO MUCH work to be done, and so much uncertainty in our life. I try to relax when I get home, spend time connecting with the kids, but they just mob me and talk over one another till everyone ends up yelling, including me. They all want a piece of me at the same time. I want each of them to have some attention from me and I'm so tired and I'm tired of having to nag for what I need.
Speaking of tired... I'm of to bed. Night!
Glad to hear this MB. Your years of M were special, I'd hate to see you consider your life for 17 years as a "dark chapter" because you were tied to a "terrible H" due to the pain he's caused and the horrible path he's turned down. I know he has hurt you deeply, and has wounded you for years and years. I think that's true of all M's to some degree. It's not about protecting him from judgment, it's about protecting you. You've lost a future with him, no need to lose the past, and no need to live with resentment in your heart. Doesn't mean you can't learn from it what you want in the future, but this was the most content you've sounded in a while and I'm glad you found some peace tonight. Sweet dreams!
Hi Maybell,
We have been asked by Cadet to start a new thread for your "5K training" thread. Since this thread was your idea (along with Claire7), you should have the honors.
Still a bit cold where I am. Waiting for 60s-70s weather to really start running again.
On another note:
He had a smile that was warm and beautiful and utterly sexy. I have not seen it in a very long time. He doesn't look like he can produce it anymore, which makes me sad.
My W used to say something similar about my smile. I have to remember to smile more. I have become so sullen. Sometimes I catch myself in the mirror, NOT smiling - not attractive at all.
D12 keeps telling me to smile, and I feel badly about that. There is SO MUCH work to be done, and so much uncertainty in our life. I try to relax when I get home, spend time connecting with the kids, but they just mob me and talk over one another till everyone ends up yelling, including me. They all want a piece of me at the same time. I want each of them to have some attention from me and I'm so tired and I'm tired of having to nag for what I need.
I just want to offer some words of encouragement. I am sorry you are having a rough time. As I have seen many times before on the board, you are a rock for your children. You have a lot to be proud of.
As for me, I want to remembered as someone who was always smiling, regardless of the challenges I faced. I have heard more than once that our behavior can dictate our emotions. Also, I do not give my WAW the satisfaction! I am going to make a conscious effort to smile more. Aside from cheering me up, it'll makes people wonder what I am up to
It is one of the few things in my life over which I actually have control right now.
RAI
RAI, the new thread is up.
I thought I'd quit smiling, but my coworker just told me that I smile all the time, and that I'm warm and energetic. So maybe I'm just being down on myself.
I'm just tired. Between now and July 4th I have exactly two weekends without the kids, and in that time I also have to prep the house for sale, keep it showable, and be ready to move -- all while negotiating a divorce, looking for a new place to live, and working a full time job.
I also realized today that I never grieved the end of my time as a SAHM. So that mess is lurking around in there too.
No great advice for you. Just hugs. You definitely have a full plate. Take each day as it comes. Hopefully we can look back from the other side when the worst is over.
((Maybell))
RAI
P.S. Thanks for the new thread. Will look it up.
RAI, the new thread is up.
I thought I'd quit smiling, but my coworker just told me that I smile all the time, and that I'm warm and energetic. So maybe I'm just being down on myself.
I'm just tired. Between now and July 4th I have exactly two weekends without the kids, and in that time I also have to prep the house for sale, keep it showable, and be ready to move -- all while negotiating a divorce, looking for a new place to live, and working a full time job.
I also realized today that I never grieved the end of my time as a SAHM. So that mess is lurking around in there too.
Everyone keeps telling me that once I get to the other side of this I will be better than ever. I keep thinking of that as I have to power through decisions I never wanted to make and situations I never wanted to encounter. Deep breaths and one day at a time. You are doing fantastic! I need some of your strength to rub off on me.
Kids and I had a great weekend. Lots of friend time. Lots of together time. It was good.
I've been really struggling with my relationship with my parents. I'm not inclined to call them. My mom is kind of a drama queen who brings out the worst in me about STBX. If I tell her good stuff about my life she is barely interested. If I tell her frustrations she gets really engaged and that sends me on a roll because I'd like her to be interested in me. When I ask about her life she complains about everything. EVERYTHING. Even things she enjoys are too much of a good thing. In some ways she reminds me of STBX because she's so very self-focused. I can't think of a time when she expressed pleasure at having done anything to help anyone. Or of a kindness that she did out of sheer selflessness. It's sometimes hard to listen to her talk all the time about the scratch in the new dining table or the color paint she chose. So between that and my own hectic life I don't call regularly. I haven't seen them since last August (for a day when I stayed with my brother). She's pretty annoyed with me for not calling more often. Which is understandable.
So they were planning on stopping through my town on the way to someplace else and the date when they were going to do this is approaching. She never said which dates they'd be here or anything. She was very vague about it all. I have no vacation time to take to spend with them and the kids are at the age that they can't miss school (not to mention how all their grades slipped last term when STBX announced the divorce), and they aren't planning to be here for the weekend because they're passing through on their way from the wedding of a step-niece.
I would be happy to see them but it seems really inconsiderate that I'm not worth a trip for a time when we could actually spend time with them. She hasn't given me actual dates and now she's mad that I haven't said strongly enough "I'd really like you to come." Nor has she said "I really want to see you." So she called tonight and was trying to get me to say "Don't come" so I can be the bad guy, and I wouldn't do it. I would pay for that for years if I did.
The week before STBX moved out I took the kids stayed with them for a week and got a huge lecture about how our visit wasn't any fun because I was so emotional the whole time. They have not asked if I need any help except once, and when I said yes and asked for something specific, they pushed me off. If this were anyone else in my circle I'd just let them drift away. But they're my parents.
I'm nowhere near perfect. I do tend to nurture the relationships that are right in front of me and back burner the ones that are more remote. And I'm not that motivated to nurture an unfulfilling relationship with my parents when I know myself to be disregarded by them. I resent their lack of empathy and compassion. I do not know how to manage this relationship. I resent having to devote time and energy to it when I'm stretched thin, and also when I am motivated to nurture the relationships with the MANY people in my circle who have shown such support and compassion for me. I have friends who've checked in on me every single day to see if I'm ok. People who had no reason to do that except from kindness. It is a huge contrast to the treatment I've gotten from my parents. I know I ought to forgive it, but I'm not sure how to while still protecting the parts of myself that are better served by more distance from them.
This is a very insightful post about your parents. To me, it appears more clearly why you're a Nice Girl. You must have felt the need to bend over backwards to be liked. What you say about your parents being upset for years if you said "Don't come" shows how you expect to be punished for showing your true emotions. Of course, your parents are getting what they deserve when you don't call. They create no incentives for it. But it's probably too late to teach them otherwise. The path in their heads are too familiar and there's no external shock to shake them out of it.
I had my parents over for the week-end. I don't know if you'll relate, but they're pretty much the opposite of yours. They never quite say what they really want or feel. To answer yes to a question like "Do you want a beer?" they go "Ah! Oh. Mmm.... Well..." To say no to something like "Do you want to come with me to the grocery?", they'll say a terse "Ok". To most anything I suggest, they'll say "I don't mind." Today, they had to drive nearby with the kids while I would bike there. They kept making up scenarios so that I wouldn't bike, even though I had told them 5 times I was OK biking — I guess they just couldn't believe that anyone would be straightforward. The problem of course is that they do have a preference, but they can't say it. So they say it doesn't matter and, knowing this for living with them for 20 years, they'll complain behind the back of people. And that's how I became a Nice Guy, coming the complete opposite way from yours.
You talk about your parents but then describe only your mother's actions and words. Can you remind us a little about your father?
I only speak to my dad when he answers the phone. He does not call me ever. Being a teenager in his house is not something I want to talk about. He loves me but he is a very tough guy and he follows my mother's lead with me. It's not much of a relationship.
Great quote today:
Fear does not stop death. It stops Life.
This is great. Maybell. . I too am working on figuring out some boundaries for myself (emotional boundaries, really) with my parents. I can relate, for sure. My mom is like the ultimate martyr. She'll do nice things but mostly for the recognition and praise she expects out of it. She had a tough childhood and was pretty neglected, emotionally. I am much more compassionate and patient with her when I remind myself of that... she doesn't have the emotional maturity to deal with things differently. I try (emphasis on try) to accept her for who she is, and be the kind of person I want to be...and the kind of mom I want her to be. But that's all I can control.
As for your parents visit... I know it's not ideal, but maybe missing a day for a rare visit with grandma is ok, especially at this point in the school year? Maybe they can spend time with the kids while you are at work? See if you can allow yourself to be flexible, even though they are not giving you what you'd like. Maybe you can "meet them where they are", emotionally-speaking...
It may help YOU the most, and that is who I am most concerned with!
As for your parents visit... I know it's not ideal, but maybe missing a day for a rare visit with grandma is ok, especially at this point in the school year? Maybe they can spend time with the kids while you are at work? See if you can allow yourself to be flexible, even though they are not giving you what you'd like. Maybe you can "meet them where they are", emotionally-speaking...
It may help YOU the most, and that is who I am most concerned with!
Hello Maybell.
I think Claire is giving you great advice. Please hang in there, okay? Try to take things one step at a time.
So many people on this forum care about you. I can tell you are a very nice person.
I am going to dedicate a prayer to you tonight. You are on my list.
Take care.
{{{Maybell)))
Hey Maybell,
I wanted to inform you that I remembered to dedicate a prayer just to you and your sitch last night.
I wish you well.
Bob
Thank you, Bob, that's very kind of you.
I did call my mom yesterday and my dad answered. It turned out to be, surprisingly, kind, generous, supportive, and interested.
Then my mom got on the phone and it was all about her. And brief, and she was short with me.
Which is fine. It's at least more honest and I didn't get sucked into a lot of my own negativity.
They are not coming this time which is a relief. Things on the legal front have turned in an unpredictable direction and I think I won't have the energy to do a lot of outside coddling. It's going to be hunker down time soon.
I know I've gotten a bit sporadic around here. I see a fresh crop of stories and I'm sorry. I want to mentor some people through but my plate is full at the moment so I'm sending warm healing vibes across the boards. Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Maybell, hope you are ok. Anything you want to share about your legal challenges? We are all here for you.
Someday the D will be over. You'll have other problems, but I have a hunch it can't get much more difficult.
That is surprising to hear about your convo with your dad just based on what you told us. I don't pretend to know, but it makes me wonder what would happen if you two spent a day just the two of you without your mom around. I wonder if he'd be different. Anyway, wishful thinking I guess. No expectations
Take care MB.
I always had the impression my dad found having a daughter a terrifying responsibility. His personality did a complete 180 when I got married and became someone else's problem. My suspicion is that he's kinder to me right now because I have been managing all this on my own for over a year and he's starting to see I have some strength and will be ok, so the burden isn't back on him. But I was really surprised at his attitude too.
I don't want to share too much about the legal stuff just to be safe, but my lawyer warned me today that things could "get rocky" but that he was confident I would ultimately prevail.
I have to say that as much as my pride would like me to just take what STBX offers and walk so I can call myself self-sufficient, the cost to the kids would be very high and it seems unfair to make them pay both for their father's stupidity and their mother's pride. I hope they still see me as strong even if I let their father continue to be the primary financial support.
I'm actually really well. I saw him leave the house last night and didn't feel the need to slam the door on his a$$ like I'd been doing, which I count as progress. I really believe that this is all truly his loss.
I worry about S9, however. He wants more time with his dad, and asked yesterday if he could spend some time with him this weekend (I have the kids for the second week in a row owing to all his swaps). I said it was ok with me but that he needed to talk to his dad about it. To my knowledge he gave up on it at that point. I'm wondering if I shouldn't hand him the phone and tell him how to reach STBX (though he ought to know), or if I should let it be. I worry STBX will hurt him again. I don't know how to handle this.
STBX is pretty hurtful and stupid. My L called him a dirtbag. I feel disappointed that I chose such a cr@ppy person to be my kids' dad.
Thank you, Bob, that's very kind of you.
I did call my mom yesterday and my dad answered. It turned out to be, surprisingly, kind, generous, supportive, and interested.
Maybell,
You're quite welcome! It was my pleasure.
I'm happy to hear that your dad was supportive. At a time like this, you need family's support more than ever.
Hang in there!
(((Maybell)))
House lists next week. I'm feeling weak, overwhelmed, queasy. Insufficient. Scared. Exposed. A little angry. Scared. Hopeful and impatient.
Hang on in there Maybell! My W wants to put the house on market soon and that just seems like a way of bullying me.
Remember, we've done nothing wrong!
House lists next week. I'm feeling weak, overwhelmed, queasy. Insufficient. Scared. Exposed. A little angry. Scared. Hopeful and impatient.
Ah...but you've been through all of these before MB. So you know you can do this. Stay strong!!!
Hi Maybell, gan is right, you've done this before. And, I daresay, did it well! Good luck!
Happy Mothers Day, Maybell!
Mothers day bump for Maybell
Thanks, y'all!
I'm neck deep in house prep. I've been accepting help as much as possible and tonight bullied the kids into helping with the second worst room in the house. I'm anxious but hopeful that everything will be ready by Wednesday evening. Not to the standards I've had on previous houses, but what are you going to do?
It is hard not to be hating STBX as I work through all this. REALLY hard -- because every minute of it is down to him walking away. I haven't been posting or reading here partly because I'm trying to detach further from all that partly because I'm so busy. I want to be more than just the sad lady whose husband left her.
He's been pulling out a charm offensive lately, I'm not sure what that's about. Not helping one mite more, not spending any more time with the kids, but making a show of being friendly and accommodating when he does turn up. Complained that I won't allow him to be nice to me (as in, I'm not sufficiently responsive to his friendliness). None of this means anything; he just wants to look like a good guy.
I have posted a lot of pics of the kids on Facebook. D12 and S7 particularly have had a lot of accomplishments lately. We tried to call my MIL for Mother's Day but she didn't answer, so I had the kids make a video greeting for her and we texted it over. She answered a little while later and we had a bit of a text conversation. She complained that she hadn't seen enough of them and that they were growing up too quickly. (She hasn't seen them in almost a year). I said that when I have a home she'll be welcome any time. No response to that; she's as good an avoider as her son. I'm not sure his parents realize how he's been living since he left me.
Anyway, that's my news. Nothing to report here. I'm just trying to be a better person, a happier person who focuses on the good in my life. I am truly very well supported and grateful for so much. Including my friends here. I'm very, very tired and can't wait till the house is listed and I can go through things a tiny bit at a time and start culling and simplifying my belongings. For now I just want to make it so my house looks pretty enough for someone to buy it (and hopefully STBX will actually do some kind of settlement agreement).
Crossing my fingers...
He's been pulling out a charm offensive lately, I'm not sure what that's about. Not helping one mite more, not spending any more time with the kids, but making a show of being friendly and accommodating when he does turn up. Complained that I won't allow him to be nice to me (as in, I'm not sufficiently responsive to his friendliness). None of this means anything; he just wants to look like a good guy.
MB- I've gotten a fair amount of this as well - not really a charm offensive but repetitive offers of "I want to help!" - which are completely empty given where he lives and his schedule. I guess it makes him feel good to say it.
I hope you are one of those fabulous stories one reads about where the house sells for over listing price the first day on the market.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
From your lips to God's ears!!
My options are starting to pop up so once I get past Thursday I will be fine. Fortunately the kids go to their dad this weekend so I'll be able to catch up on my sleep. If the house is showing I intend to do a little couch-surfing. All will be well.
Hello, all.
I've spent most of this weekend getting the house ready again. I had to go to a dinner for work tonight and STBX kept the kids for a couple of hours at my house till he got back. After all the work I've done he told them just to leave their suitcases and stuff by the front door. I objected rather strongly as he was leaving and told him I thought he svcked for dumping the whole house and everything on me and just walking off. He said he could understand why I was angry and he was sorry.
I've been sorrier spilling wine at a dinner party.
I feel SO ANGRY when he gives me those cr@ppy poor apologies. They are so NOT apologies. Not that an apology would be remotely sufficient in this situation. But I am SO ANGRY that he is not the guy he's pretending to be. As though it's reasonable he could just dump our life on me and I should be reasonable and civilized and evolved and accepting of HIS CHOICES.
What it really comes down to is that I'm angry, hurt, and disappointed that he's not the guy I believed he was. That he's not the guy I made all those sacrifices for.
And I really need to be done being angry with him. I'm tired of it. I want to be above him. I want to just move on and make my life mine, and not worry about him at all and I want to not waste one more minute on anger or hatred for him. And I don't know how to let all that go.
I cried so hard after he left. Because I'm so angry with him, and so tired of thinking about him and so tired of doing work cleaning up after his horrible selfish destructive choices.
He's a serial cheater. There is NO HOPE for him and me. But I still wish he was the guy I thought I married and not this cold jerky stranger who thought a reasonable response to unhappiness (which was entirely of HIS making) was to have sex with strangers.
I WANT TO LET HIM GO. But I'm in the middle of disentangling my life from his and everything about my waking hours right now is about cleaning up after the mess his choices have left me and the kids in. I am so tired of spending my life cleaning up after him but I don't know what to ask him to do because I hate the sight of him and I don't want him around. I told him tonight that the injustice of his behavior makes me want to vomit and he didn't acknowledge that at all except to say "I'll help if you ask me to." I could drop F bombs all day for how inadequate that is. He is not a grown up. He is not a good person. He is stupid for thinking that would even remotely address what I'm telling him. And I'm stupid for wishing he could grasp it.
Somebody, please, tell me how to get out of this awful emotional place. And failing that, somebody please pray that I will make it through, that it won't last much longer, and that I can be clean of him SOON SOON SOON. I don't like letting him in my head any more.
I NEED TO BE OUT OF THIS HOUSE. I need to get clean of him.
One of the things that makes all this so hard for me is that I work in an industry where we see a LOT of couples who've been married 30-50 years. And most of them are clearly very close. And it pains me. Because they are so mutually interested in one another, even if they don't actually share their interests. It's the PERSON who's important, not the qualities, not so much the mutual interests, not anything except that each values the other for being a person who is important to them.
I hope I find that for myself some day. Sometimes I find it hard to believe anyone could.
You've got my prayers Maybell. And one other thing...honestly, if I was in your shoes, I think I'd be feeling the same things and trying to handle it the same way. And that's if I flatter myself, because I'm not even sure I could walk the walk you're walking.
What I'm most impressed with is that you understand you can't expect better from him, that you're only hurting yourself with your anger, and that you genuinely want to grow through it. Most people would just keep pointing out their ex's flaws as if to justify it. But while that's a healthy goal, you definitely have to feel that way and sort through it. Look at it this way- you won't feel this way in 100 more posts. Each post is one closer to when it's over.
For me, I'm struggling with that not with my STBX, but with my sister. You might recall she's the one that was best buddies with my STBX from just before BD through her 'harmless flings' as my sis put it, to her summer of 'letting loose' as she put it. She's the one that believes that my STBX is a person of high character, that this is just normal, that people should do what makes them happy. I can forgive my sister for her role in the destruction of my family, I can accept that people will feel differently than me about what it means to be a person of character and how important M is...but I am not yet ready to spend time with her. Partly it is because my STBX and I are heading to mediation then possibly court, and I don't trust my sister to not have a negative impact during these negotiations by unintentionally stirring the pot. But part of it is that I just want nothing to do with someone that thinks this is 'best for everyone'.
My point is I'm dealing with that, and it's tough because while it does us no good to hold on to negative feelings, those feelings are there to help us. I know you know all of this Maybell. I'm sorry if I'm doing the guy thing and trying to be a 'solver'. I just wanted to relate that it's very difficult.
For what it's worth, I don't see you as a negative person, a victim, or a blamer. And I think you'll get where you want to be before you know it. But until then know that your screams are heard.
One of the things that makes all this so hard for me is that I work in an industry where we see a LOT of couples who've been married 30-50 years. And most of them are clearly very close. And it pains me. Because they are so mutually interested in one another, even if they don't actually share their interests. It's the PERSON who's important, not the qualities, not so much the mutual interests, not anything except that each values the other for being a person who is important to them.
I hope I find that for myself some day. Sometimes I find it hard to believe anyone could.
I think this thought crosses my mind 113 times a day. But I am starting to believe it will happen for me, and for you. At the same time, what comforts me is knowing that even if I am deprived of that particular goal in my life, it will only be because it was out of my control, and not because I didn't cherish that ideal and strive for it to the best of my ability. I'll never lose a night of sleep because I was afraid to put my heart out there and give my all to make that happen. And MB, I really think you'll find a partner who is just as tenaciously looking for you for those same reasons.
Thanks for your kindness tonight, Zues. It does help.
I still have so much work to do tonight and I've wasted most of my time on how upset I feel about all this. I think I'm going to throw in the towel, though, and give up for the evening, and hope it will all be better in the morning.
Zues seems to have a way of doing that! No words of wisdom Maybell, I think this is just something that you will continue to work thru and eventually let go. ((()))
Hugs to you, maybell. Big big hugs.
Today, I met the cousin of a friend (who is really the wife of Stbx ' s friend, but we've remained close ). Anyway, this friend's cousin is also separated. I told her how my stbx told me he was leaving while our daughter was napping, and a week after he said he was not planning to do that. He left that night and couch-sufed for a couple of weeks till he found a temp apartment. (It took a few months for him to sign a lease, and then a few more for him to have a room set up for our D).
Anyway, she said, "really? Wow, that [censored]. I'm sorry ".
My point is that there are a million ways to deal with an unhappy marriage, and a million ways to get divorced. And your stbx (and mine ) did so in particularly crappy ways.
So it's ok to be angry, I think. And I'm glad you recognize that the anger needs to find a new home (haha), because eventually it will not serve you well. Their choices reveal much more about THEM than anything about us.
You hold yourself to high standards and expect others to do the same. And now you know the danger of having too many expectations. So, the suitcases incident perhaps was thoughtless, but not necessarily vicious. I encourage you to let some of that stuff go, for your own sake. Practice being the kind of person who doesn't keep score or see things like that as personal attacks. (I am guilty of this too, by the way).
Ok this post started with a hug and ended a lot more preachy than I wanted. You are dealing with a super stressful thing --sselling a home and moving-- not by your choice and without help. It suxxxxxx. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
Try to keep your mind on being the kind of person whose story is, "I did this all by myself with my head held high and created my own peace and happiness " rather than the person who says, "my jerky ex was a jerk face and left me and I had to do all of this alone and he is a jerk" (does that make sense? )
Hugs. Big big big hugs. The thought of moving makes me panic so I will reread this in the future!!
Maybell, it seems to me that you are simply overwhelmed with life. And that is possibly coloring your response to STBX. He's a crap guy, don't get me wrong, but I think you'd be more tolerant of him if you weren't tired and up to your eyeballs in muck.
How do you feel about summers, dear? I've always loved summers, even when I was working, it was a slower pace for my kids. On the other hand, I know moms who enjoy summer for two weeks and then their kids drive them crazy. How about you? Any possibility that a slower summer schedule will give you a little breather?
I'll be working through the summers so there will be a little bit of guilt in there but I also have good plans and will appreciate the reduced pressure. No more looking at homework, etc., and I can plan for the new school year in advance so that I don't let so many balls drop, etc. Also my sitter has been a HUGE help -- next best thing to a wife, really -- so it will be good to have a breather.
The very greatest stress, though, is the house. I am SO ANGRY with him that HE bought this house after starting the affair and I and the kids are paying the price for his stupidity. I'm getting 5 hours of sleep a night till I crash, and everything isn't ready yet. And he has the nerve to put it all back on me, that I don't ask him to do stuff and he's trying to respect my privacy when the one job I asked him to do he didn't even see through.
Just thinking about it gets me fired up.
STILL don't have a settlement agreement but I'm hoping at least that gets closed out soon. I'm nervous about taking on all the bills, etc., so I'll be glad to have school out to get my feet under me with all that as well.
I need to be out of this house and into my own and I'm nervous that mine will take a while to sell. So anxious about everything.
I will not be as free from him as I'd like for several more years, but it will be a relief to at least get out of the house. And I hope someday to be able to look at him like a neighbor from three doors down and not like the guy who dumped his life on me and walked off. I don't want to carry his weight any longer.
I'm glad that summer does seem like it will bring you a little relief. I feel the same way about reduced pressure.
It's clear that your STBX is not going to come through himself. What if you asked him to pay for help? I'm not sure what you need, kid assistance, cleaning, packing boxes, lifting things. But there's someone out there willing to do it all for a fee. Drag out that checkbook and give yourself a break.
In any case, I'm thinking about you, and I know you are strong enough to get through it. It's OK to vent, we're here for you in that way. I wish I was close enough to actually help you!
I found an organizing service that specializes in downsizing. They focus on seniors moving into retirement communities but I had a mutual acquaintance and they occasionally help women transitioning through divorce as well. So that will be enormous.
It's been difficult knowing how to delegate. I don't have any time off available so most of the work has been done in the wee hours, and I'm proud to say that my kids have been ENORMOUSLY helpful as well. Really above and beyond. I'm doing the last few bits tonight and then pictures tomorrow and then the waiting game will be filled with house purging and some professional development until it's move time.
STBX did help with about twenty minutes of stuff tonight but he had to be directed at least as much as a kid. I'm looking forward to reducing (dare I say, maybe even minimizing?) and making my household so streamlined that I NEVER have to go through all this ever again.
I'm learning NO in a lot of languages. NO. NO MORE STUFF, NO MORE UNEVEN RELATIONSHIPS, NO MORE DEVALUING MYSELF. NO.
Good for you Maybell, NO is a lifesaving word I wish I'd learned years ago.
There are some great TED talks on the benefits of downsizing. Made me less upset about going from a 3 bedroom house to a studio when my W left.
I feel for you Maybell....I don't know what I will do when the time comes for me to have to move. I've been "needing" to clean my closet for a couple of years now and can't seem to even start that...such a big task and it is after all behind a door.
I feel for you Maybell....I don't know what I will do when the time comes for me to have to move. I've been "needing" to clean my closet for a couple of years now and can't seem to even start that...such a big task and it is after all behind a door.
Lost, you know the reason my H gave for wanting to leave? My closet was messy. Yep, he seriously said that.
And what I really meant to say was , MB, I'm so glad you found the service. I know they still require your direction and supervision, but you just needed a break. Hugs to you!
Sunny,
Twelve years ago, I'd have been flabbergasted by the messy closet thing. But not today. My own XH yelled at me on his way out the door, "I hate that you organize everything! And that includes our vacations!"
I literally fell off my chair laughing at the time. I thought it was ludicrous and that he was completely off his rocker. But over the years, I found out that many of us have in common very poor communication skills. We and/or our spouses lack skills in identifying feelings and communicating in a healthy manner to each other, and often there is a passive aggressive component to this mix which makes it more than difficult.
I probably don't need to begin the dialog about what a messy closet might mean in the grand scheme. But if you want to start, I'll be happy to guide ya'll along.
(Maybell, I'm so sorry I've been AWOL - I've been avoiding this place because I've been dealing with my own grief and stuff and it's not been conducive to being a good mentor lately.)
What my XH was wanting me to understand is that my controlling nature was the #1 thing he despised about me. It took a long time for me to process this and have it make sense in an overall picture. I *did* control things. I *did* plan. I thought it made sense. But there were so many other pieces to this puzzle that, alone, this statement sounded stupid and childish. So my recommendation is to dig deep. See if that truth dart is something that has a basis in truth and it affects your life and relationship in other ways. A messy closet is usually symptomatic of other things - like being disorganized or undisciplined or dirty or lazy - you get it. Just like my "planning" gene was definitely rooted in my control freakishness.
Good luck with the downsizing, Maybell. I started to do it a few years ago when I had my house on the market. I'll probably be doing it for real in another year or so when I decide to actually commit to the process.
It will all work out. Let go and let God.
Hugs,
Betsey
Betsy, nice to see you, I've been thinking about you. I do admire your ability to step back and take care of yourself. (In case you didn't realize, Sunny is the second generation of a three initialed poster from a sunny state).
Back to MB.....
OMG, now I know! I couldn't find you.
Hugs at you too. I've missed you.
Betsey how can you apologize to me? You've done so much and just from kindness. I hope you're feeling better. I've been thinking about you.
Not much to report here. The house is clean enough to show -- yay!!!! I'm sleeping tonight.
everything else will play out how it plays out.
So as far as updates go... Not much to report. STBX sent me a long email explaining his thinking in the settlement he offered and it was an exercise in looking out for Number One, and hey, why aren't you looking out for me too? All basically indicating that he has no real idea who I am or what it means to have fired me from the job of taking care of his interests.
Now that the house is showable (and has been showing, and I'm scared it's going to sell sooner rather than later and then I'll have to cope with the MOVE), I've realized it's time to buckle down on the whole simplifying scheme and I'm a little nervous about it. I'm starting in my office because it's egregious and ought to be the easiest to clean out and I find myself unfortunately getting nostalgic for all the kid art and stuff that's in there. Looking forward to getting my consultation tomorrow.
I'm feeling like I haven't been adequate at the parenting thing like I'd like to be lately. I was a little short tempered today and I feel badly about it but honestly, HOW MANY TIMES do I have to say PICK UP YOUR SHOES AND PUT YOUR DISHES AWAY? And D12 did a little button pushing all day today, till I finally let her go up to my room to watch a movie, then she had the nerve to complain that no one left her alone all day. ???? She had the movie time, which she cut short because she was bored. Hung out with me looking at houses and Pinterest for a while, didn't want to go spend time with her friends, didn't want to play the game the boys and I were playing (and made it miserable for all of us till I fired her). I get that she's frustrated and everything but I wish I could help her figure out how to navigate that without making everyone around her miserable.
I have next weekend off, then the next two with the kids, then a weekend off, then the family vacation. And somewhere in all that I have to manage a full-time job, the end of the school year, selling the house and moving, etc., and OH the divorce is probably going to heat up because STBX doesn't really listen to his lawyer.
Good times.
A lot else is going well for me but I'd really like to be past all this because it's hard to feel like I'm moving forward in my life when all my energy is going into wrapping up this phase of it.
No, I'm not dating and no one is on the horizon either. And sometimes I'm really OK with that and sometimes I'd love to have someone who I just say "Hey, I want to see this movie" and he'll go and hold my hand or put his arm around me and we can nestle in and enjoy things together. But that won't happen till I'm in a stabler place with myself and I'm not sure when that will be.
... (In case you didn't realize, Sunny is the second generation of a three initialed poster from a sunny state).
Well I was wondering. But now I know.
Hi Maybell, you still seem overwhelmed but in a better place about it. Maybe more "has a full plate" than "overwhelmed". You really do seem like you have a handle on what needs to be done. Wishing you all good things in the next few weeks. One of these days, you'll wonder how you did it.
LOL, OD. You must have wondered why Sunny was being so forthcoming on your thread when you'd never heard of her? Oh my!
Hi Maybell, you still seem overwhelmed but in a better place about it. Maybe more "has a full plate" than "overwhelmed". You really do seem like you have a handle on what needs to be done. Wishing you all good things in the next few weeks. One of these days, you'll wonder how you did it.
Hello Maybell,
I was thinking about your sitch earlier today, and seeing SunnyB's recent post reminded me to check in. (SunnyB - thanks!)
I must agree with Sunny, you have a full plate. I also think you have a good idea on what needs to be done. How do you feel about that?
As soon as I click on "Submit" I am dedicating a prayer to you Maybell.
Somehow, you will make it!
{{{{{Maybell}}}}}
Bob
LOL, OD. You must have wondered why Sunny was being so forthcoming on your thread when you'd never heard of her? Oh my!
I was, but I'm such a nice guy, in more ways than one, and all are welcome :-)
STBX did something really nice for me today and it made me feel sad and hurt all over again.
I had my six month review yesterday and I got knocked for taking too much personal time. I can't control it almost at all (and have taken what steps I can to mitigate it) so it's all going to be docked against my leave. Since I have no leave left my pay will be docked. This is so depressing. I'm never absent for frivolous reasons, except once I went to a funeral.
House has been showing well and the kids have been cooperative so that's good.
I'm sorry I haven't been around more but there's nothing to say and I'm feeling so tapped, I have little to offer. We all struggle and I do care. But I think I'm at my limit.
Sorry MB. I know how that feels. Sometimes when people say "you are so strong" I wish to myself I had been a bit weaker so I could've given up a while ago.
Thanks for checking in. This board wouldn't be the same without you.
((((Maybell )))
Be kind to yourself.
Hey Maybell - I'm also taking a bit of a break, feeling stretched in real life. But when I peeked and saw your thread up, I had to see what's up with up. It seems really unfair of your boss to cut your pay. In fact, I've never heard of that, not even cutting vacation days. It sounds harsh, especially in your current situation. You have my support.
Hugs to you, MB. The leave things sounds like a raw real to me. I am sorry you are dealing with that. In terms of STBX doing something nice - can you just accept it for what was (nice) and not let yourself venture down the rabbit hole?
Btw, I could really use a tip or two for dealing with disrespectful tween girl who doesn't take me seriously when I ban potty humor from the dinner table.
Maybell I have no doubt that you are handling this correctly for your family. Your D is a unique snowflake and you understand her best. One route is to realize this is a phase and ignore her, but I suspect the two little brothers get stirred up into it also once it's started. If she's the type, you could take her aside and make her feel grown-up and say you are trying to get the dinner table conversation to be more polite and could she help you out as an example to the rowdy brothers. But that's a fine line, you don't want to put them at odds. You could reward her with a favorite after-dinner activity if she makes it all the way through dinner without a potty mouth. Or you could simply banish her from the table with the second potty word that comes out (first is a warning) with the understanding that the kitchen is closed after dinner. I've taken this route for various things, and it works, but your D is stong willed and it would likely be a lengthy battle and I"m not sure you need that right now. As I said, I'm sure you are doing just fine, just step back and realize potty humor is generally a phase and she won't think it's so interesting down the road. Hang in there, darlin', you are doing great.
Thanks, Sunny. I hope it IS a phase. It is beyond gross. But what I really hate is how she refuses to take my disgust seriously.
Gan, it wasn't a rabbit hole. It just felt so familiar it hurt. Still hurts.
I was supposed to get a raise, too, that was negotiated when I was hired and is recorded in my offer letter. But she didn't bring it up and after being reprimanded for too much personal time I didn't feel like I should bring it up. To top it all off I am now eligible and need to enroll in the form health insurance, but she didn't bring that up either and now I have to wait till things settle down a bit to ask... But I have an appointment with my lawyer on Monday so I have to get that personal leave approved first and then hopefully go a couple of weeks not missing even a minute of work so she'll be better disposed to me.
All this for a woman who rarely comes in before 9:30 so she can hit the gym, is way from the office during the week a lot for various board meetings, etc. and vacations 1-2 weeks every month since I've been here.
I'm at my limit.
Hey MB- Was there anything in the offer letter that was conditional? (i.e.- receiving a raise after successful completion of a probationary period) And is there an HR person around?
No HR person around. It's just the three of us, no oversight. I will get the health insurance. Offer letter was not conditional but I have to work here and my boss is defensive and passive aggressive. I've just got to power through till my life settles down and I can re-evaluate.
Except the personal time my review was glowing but I feel demoralized. It's not like I want to be always stepping out. But I don't feel free to spend my lunch break as I wish either.
Well - Take heart. If there's just three of you, she actually doesn't do things like process pre-negotiated raises and healthcare enrollment very often - so she's probably not even thinking about it.
If you feel like you have to wait for the right moment, do so - but I wouldn't let it go too long, it is after all, literally just business.
It's tough to get a negative on your review. Years ago I worked at a hospital for a woman who sounds much like your boss and in my first review she actually told me I needed to eat my lunch in the cafeteria and socialize more. Good gravy, did I get steamed about that one. And to this day I can't remember all the other glowing things on that review - just that one unprofessional dig.
I will get the health insurance.
Maybell, this is the part that concerns me the most. Insurance plans have enrollment windows and if you miss them, you have to wait until the next one. Please make sure your boss doesn't make you miss it.
I have an ally who is looking out for me here. She is going to help me.
Tonight S9 said he was glad his dad left because there were less dishes to clean since he was gone. I was floored and said, "Really?" And he said, "Well, just for that." But he said it so very cheerfully... And something about it all got into my head that he gets a lot of this and that in some way he actually is kind of glad, because the three kids and I are so much closer without their dad around. I'm a lot more open with them, and they're quick to tell me stuff about their lives. D12 was making dinner for us when I got home from work AND had the kitchen cleaned up. We sat outside to eat and it was simple. We cleaned up together and it was still early. We watched a couple of short shows, played Connect Four, did laundry, played chess, and read Fellowship of the Ring on the couch, all before bedtime.
I was feeling hurt and sad because the nice thing he did for me yesterday reminded me of the good quality of our marriage. But then I had this awesome evening, made possible by his absence. LOTS of great things on tap for this weekend, and the hope for exactly the kind of home I've always wanted by the end of the summer.
It's like what PigPen said on Lisa's thread. In the negative column, I lost a guy. But oh, my, the positive side is huge. I would not have guessed it could be like this two years ago. I suppose I'm a slow learner.
Maybell, this is a great post. I especially love hearing about the growth in your R with your kids. Beautiful. Someday we may look back and realize that our H's did us the biggest favor by leaving...
I agree with focusing on the positive. I'm not a big fan of minimizing the negative. For me, I lost a woman- but a woman that was my partner to serve and share through our lifetime. I lost the ability to model marriage to my kids, and instead will have to accept that them and my grandkids will be more likely to divorce and have broken families and broken relationships. I could go on, but I don't believe in D and can't get on board treating it like somehow it's a good thing I'd recommend to a friend. Because if my STBX told me she wanted to get D to accomplish the positives, I would argue that we could do that without dismantling a family.
However- we didn't get a choice, so the fact that we choose to use this crisis as a catalyst for positive change in our lives is awesome. And there is no question that our lives may end up more fulfilling in many ways. I don't think this is because of the divorce. I think this is because of YOU. And it's great.
So I say, yeah, titanic loss, but you ran your ship and are being rewarded for your choices with many blessings. Oh and this-
We watched a couple of short shows, played Connect Four, did laundry, played chess, and read Fellowship of the Ring on the couch, all before bedtime.
This sounds like a night to remember. And you have those nights routinely. I know I feel that way with my kids too. I'm blown away with what we have. Maybe I'm more engaged. Maybe I just appreciate it more. Either way it's all good.
STBX was never a proper partner. He began withdrawing the first year we were married, when he decided he'd prefer not to engage in things that made him uncomfortable or that he wasn't inclined to do, like discuss finances or plan for the future (even future vacations!) or clean the house. He didn't want to be a partner or know how to be one. Do you have any idea how lonely and demoralizing it is to try to build a life with someone like that? He just went off and did his own thing with no thought or generosity from me except when I demanded it, and the more I demanded it the more he resented me. The more I needed to demand it the less I wanted to have sex with him and he resented me for that too.
I believe in marriage as much as you do. I don't think that being a wife means being someone else's life Sherpa. Now I am free to be happy and to actually build a real, meaningful life. And if it's a little heavy sometimes then I'm free to choose whether to build the strength to carry the load or to choose to lay something down. All things considered, yes, basically I lost a guy and the trappings of married life. I've gained a lot, lot more.
I should add that I would not feel this way had he been a more engaged partner more of the time. But he made intentional decisions to harm me and our family (regardless of how well he thought those decisions through) and I'm not going to minimize THAT. It is the role of a parent and spouse to protect the family unit, not to intentionally torch it.
This has been on my mind a lot lately. There's this balance between 'reasonable expectations' and 'entitlement'. It's not just in marriage. It exists in any partnership.
My last job I was a supervisor. On the one had the leadership team wanted to do everything we could for our employees. We asked them for feedback, etc. Some of that was constructive, and we were able to do good things for some loyal employees. But many employees were just entitled and negative, and the more we'd do the more they'd want. They wouldn't be satisfied, and many were extremely entitled and unappreciative.
Same goes for parenting. Unchecked they will make mile long Christmas lists, buy every toy in the store, and go to Disneyland every day. As parents we have to listen to what they want, and it's nice to do some of that for them every once in a while. Meanwihle the kids too must learn that life isn't about getting everything they want.
When I think of marriage I think I was far too entitled. I google searched "marriage expectations" and pulled up page after page of people writing how expectations kill a marriage. Same with guys expecting sex. Or anyone expecting anything. Expectations lead to disappointment and resentment.
Yes, I know how lonely it can be. I didn't speak to my W for a total of 3 out of the last 5 years. We went over a year at a time without ML despite me explaining that was essentially the one thing I needed from her, so when it was denied over the years I felt divorced emotionally. It was very difficult to stay in that marriage.
But what I wonder is- what if I had just let go of expectations. Who I am to deserve a partner that is sexually fulfilling? Many men are stuck with selfish women that withhold affection and blame their partners. Why should God make an exception for me? Why do I deserve a partner that works together with me the way I think they ought to? Why do I deserve to not feel lonely? Is this my partners fault, or is this just the human condition and somehow I thought having a spouse would exclude me from the pain in the world?
I mean- right now you don't have a partner, so you don't expect anything from them, because they aren't there. Are you lonely? Maybe a little. But does it fill you with resentment? No, becaues you aren't expecting anything. Why does this change when we find a partner? Why do we have to set the bar beyond the reach of a flawed human?
Personally I think I should've just let go of all my expectation and served my W. If I could've had less resentment, accepted that I would be in an unfulfilling M, and just enjoyed having a partner to serve...I think that's what a healthy M looks like in many ways. AND it would've allowed her to respond in more loving ways so maybe it would've been better, AND I would've been more apt to appreciate what she DID do for me.
And no- I don't literally mean ALL. I wouldn't want to be in a M where my partner cheated, drank, gambled my money away, abused my children, and never spoke a word to me for the years we were together. What I'm saying is there is a balance, and I think that our society as a whole is way out of balance putting too much pressure on the M to do things it can't do, then blaming their partner for the dreary reality that is being human.
I should add that I would not feel this way had he been a more engaged partner more of the time. But he made intentional decisions to harm me and our family (regardless of how well he thought those decisions through) and I'm not going to minimize THAT. It is the role of a parent and spouse to protect the family unit, not to intentionally torch it.
Posted before I saw this.
I want to be clear MB- I'm not accusing you of being entitled or unappreciative. I know you to be mature, loving, and committed. I don't really know what your H was like. When I said "this has been on my mind lately" it's simply because it really has, and I wanted to post about it.
He wouldn't even sit in the same room with me the last 3-4 years we were together. He preferred to sit in his home office to read. If he spent time with me it was only to watch tv. But he went to "office happy hours" and dinners 3/5 nights a week when he wasn't traveling.
He wouldn't plan date nights, either because he objected to the cost of babysitting or because he was tired of eating out because he ate out for work every day.
When I had my own activities I wanted to include him in he declined. Just said no. I knew better than to press.
If I suggested other activities, like concerts or hikes, he'd say no because he didn't know where to park. Or because it was too much trouble to find childcare.
Once I wanted to take the kids to the beach and he said ok, but he didn't want them to get sandy.
If I asked him to help with the kids he would ONLY get them into bed. Not ask them to put their dirty clothes in the hamper or anything. Throw balled up poopy diapers on the floor with dirty baby clothes rather than put them in the diaper genie. Tell the kids to bathe themselves (at age four) rather than wash them.
The list goes on.
There is no part of that life that is worth going back to. I would not have walked away because I couldn't be the one to hurt anyone like that, and I always hoped I'd find the magic combination that would get him to act loving towards me again.
There is no part of this that the sheer vow itself made worth enduring. Marriage is not an end in itself. It is a defined relationship with promises from and responsibilities to both partners. I loved him and saw good in him. I miss those bits of good in him sometimes . But he didn't want to be that guy while married to me. Expectations on my side have nothing to do with it. All I wanted was to be happy together and his desires and expectations of what efforts he should have to make precluded that. Maybe I do svck; it's possible. But on the other hand, I have many close and reciprocal relationships with a wide variety of people, and I'm highly engaged with my kids and my communities. He's got very little of any of that. So I do t really think it's me.
I did PLENTY of just serving. It didn't help. I don't think that's the necessary path.
Dearest Maybell,
Just stopping by to inform you I've been thinking about you. I’ve been very busy and haven’t been on the DB Forum much at all for a few days. I apologize.
I don't have much to add right now, other than a little encouragement. I liked this verse, which I came across today:
“But the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength” (2 Timothy 4:17).
xoxo
Bob
Hey mayb, I'm in bobs camp not here as much these days.
But if you look back you will see how far we have come your self included.
It's reasonable to expect your h to act like a grown up. It really is.
But if they can not there is nothing you can do about it. I do look in a read a bit and I do wonder how you guys are all going. So keep it up, don't look back you don't want to go back there.
It's his choice if he wants to do any work and run to catch you.
Maybell - I'll play my old tape again for you, but hopefully you see your Nice Girl tendencies playing out at work, where you really focus on what makes you feel rejected and you avoid rocking the boat, for fear of more rejection. You had a glowing review and a promise in writing for a raise, but you frame the whole thing as a dig by your boss followed by a risky demand.
I'm not saying you should change your behavior right now as I'm sure it feels very risky to you. But sometimes, just be aware of our patterns is a big step forward, even when we don't change them. I'll just say that even if you got fired over this (unlikely, but far-reaching, I agree), you would likely reduce your chances of being in the wrong work environment in the long run. To me, NMMNG is about finding happiness through honesty, and sometimes happiness is more than one step away.
Regarding your H, whom you know I despise at least as much as you do, I also thought of him in my
last update about the genes of infidelity, based on a recent NYT article. It reminded me of a guy who said "Well, a couple of one night stands" after denying infidelity repeatedly.
Hi Maybell, you know this already but your H is just lazy. I don't think all the behaviors you listed above are related to him not loving you. It's just his propensity to be selfish and lazy, or at least in this phase of his life.
It sounds like you tried so hard to do your best and that just allowed him to be lazier and more of a jackass.
In a way it is easy to say he is a horrible person and you are lucky to be getting rid of him, but he is your husband and father of your kids. You chose him because of some good qualities, which may have faded or disappeared or maybe just are outnumbered by his crappy qualities.
Nevertheless the only thing we can do now is go forward. To me what stands out is related to what Mozza said. No more Mr Nice Girl.
Instead of focusing on his bad qualities as a husband and father and person, forget it. Let go of expectations that he is a decent person. But don't enable him to be a crappy guy either. This is difficult and means you have to stand up for yourself and be firm. Let him fall on his face and ruin his life. Yes he will probably screw up the kids somewhat. But that's on him and there is really not anything you can do! You are a great mom and person and that will balance it out. You can't sacrifice yourself for him anymore.
You've come far and been so strong! Keep up the good work!
Hugs, Lisa
Maybell, I was just stopping by to see if you had any updates today. How are you feeling?
I think about your sitch often. Do you realize how far you've come? I agree with Lisa, you are so strong.
Please keep up the good work and reach out to us if you need our advice or simply to vent.
{{{{Maybell}}}}
I had a really nice afternoon today with loving and supportive friends. Came home and STBX was there dropping off the kids. He's on his way to Europe so I won't have a break again for three more weeks.
My life feels so heavy right now. I'm meeting with my lawyer tomorrow and just scared of how this will all play out in the short term. Every time STBX remits a draft agreement he sends me long emails about how anxious he is that he's not going to have as much money as he wants, and then I have to fight this battle in myself between caring about his well-being and fighting for mine and the kids'. Thank goodness I have a zealous attorney. He gets very indignant when I worry about STBX. But then I have my work absences to worry about and hat stresses me out so much. I need balance in all this and I don't think I'll be finding it soon.
I know in my head that if he were worried about my and the kids' well-being we wouldn't be fighting over money. He's just begging for my sympathy and freaking out about the cost of all this to himself. When I can remember that I feel stronger.
I'm not going to lie, that review last week has really taken the wind out of my sails. I felt confident and well-supported and like I was moving forward with power and purpose. I don't think much has truly changed, but I feel the full weight of my situation right now. It is so heavy and scary. And yet I'm a grown-up, well-loved by so many people and so many different kinds of people. My road is in many ways much easier than others in this situation. I know I can do this. But I think I'm hitting the grief part of the cycle again. STBX is not only someone I can't be married to, he isn't even someone I or my friends would be friends with. That makes me so sad. I have lost more than just the man I loved.
Every time STBX remits a draft agreement he sends me long emails about how anxious he is that he's not going to have as much money as he wants, and then I have to fight this battle in myself between caring about his well-being and fighting for mine and the kids'.
Do you really need to be concerned about his well being? I doubt any proposed settlement is going to preclude him from having a roof over his head, 3 meals a day and the ability to continue on in his career? He's a grown man - he can pull up his boxers and make a better life for himself if he so chooses (particularly since you have the kids, what, about 90% of the time?). Your kids don't have that choice right now.
Thank goodness I have a zealous attorney. He gets very indignant when I worry about STBX. But then I have my work absences to worry about and hat stresses me out so much. I need balance in all this and I don't think I'll be finding it soon.
Yes. Thank Goodness! I have to ask- Have you shared with your attorney that the absences from work are becoming a problem? It seems to me they could adjust normal office hours now and then on your behalf.
Hang Tough Maybell!
I for one think it's mature to want things work out well for everyone, and to be hoping for an equitable settlement. Far better than feeling punitive or vindictive, and hoping your ex is financially ruined so they rue the day they hurt you. Agreed children come first and you should follow your attorney's lead- as long as you trust your attorney to have those same values.
When I picked my attorney I made it clear up front I didn't want to be run over, but I didn't want to run STBX over. What I was looking for was 50/50, and if we had to err one side or another I wanted to err on the side of being 55/45 or 60/40 her favor.
I'd rather sleep than eat.
I haven't seen my attorney since the review. I'll see him tomorrow and tell him then.
I'm not being vengeful, Zues. but there is an enormous disparity between his income and mine, and he's free to build his career while I have the kids 90% of the time and have to pay the sitter as well as everything else out of whatever he pays me. I'll be 54 when my youngest graduates high school and 58 when he's out of college. I have a future to secure too and significantly less means of securing it.
I think I didn't explain myself well. I was complimenting the fact that your WAH's well being was even on your mind. Of course you have to look out for yourself. I'm just glad you're looking at the whole picture. Sometimes things get lost in translation.
Zeus, my amen wasn't aimed at you. It's just that Maybell and I are in very similar situations financially and I don't think we are the norm here. She often explains things that I completely understood already. It was just a show of support for her.
Well, that was fun.
My lawyers are trying to wrap things up and they gave me the assignment of looking through all the financials from the last year to see if STBX owes me money for his romantic involvements. I found several dates and a Valentine's Day trip (and maybe another couple of overnighters?) but mostly he just stinks at taking care of a budget. OBSCENE amounts of money on iTunes -- we're talking around $3000. Plus several hundred on Xbox Live. Also what looks like four months of a burner phone. TONS on alcohol after we separated. For some reason, a couple hundred dollars to GoDaddy -- anyone know what that could be about?
Anyway, my friend was worried about why I was having to do this myself rather than pawn it off on a professional, but I can tell at a glance what he's probably done with/for the kids and what he's done with his fabulous bachelor life. I have to say, my life looks a lot richer, even just on a credit card statement -- and I spend WAY less than he does. And it hurts more that he's spending his money in such lonely ways than seeing evidence that he has a girlfriend, or dare I dream it, actual friends of his own. I hate seeing that he spent day after day eating alone in the same few restaurants, and then spent $200 on alcohol. I wish I saw a better life for him.
It hurts that this is who he's decided to be. I had a high opinion of him. I thought he was a good man, a smart man. He was charming and handsome and had the best smile. Sometimes I could tell him how much he meant to me and his eyes would tear up. But now he's just a frat boy. I have cried over him a few times still. I guess I'm mourning him.
Anyway, I'm so done with all this. I wish I were on to the next phase. My life is still feeling sort of heavy and my days are dragging and I feel trapped in limbo and no sense of how things will work out.
There is one thing that's worrying me a little bit, and it's so stupid and short-sighted, but I'm going to say it because it's on my mind. It's the fear that no one will ever love me. I don't know if STBX ever did because I can't imagine loving someone and building a life with them and letting that love, that relationship die on purpose, but since I clearly don't understand him at all I don't think I'll ever know if that was his version of love. But I know what kind of relationship I'd like to have in the future -- close, a real friendship, playful, loving, mutually protective, adventurous, pushing each other's comfort zones but in a really positive way -- and I'd like him to be TALL.
But I also don't know if this will ever come my way. It feels too good for me. I don't feel like a good person. I feel like a lucky person, I feel like I'm treated (mostly) better than I deserve, but I don't feel like a good man will ever see me and think, yes, She's The One. I worry that there is a fenced off part of me that doesn't trust fully (and before I hear any of this... yes, I tried with STBX, he was one tough nut) and that lets people get only so close before I withdraw in fear just a bit. I'm trying to get better about that but I worry about it just the same.
One more then I'm done. A few weeks before I met STBX, I met a tall, reasonably good looking guy at a New Year's Eve party -- and I liked him a lot, and he liked me a lot, and he actually kissed me at midnight -- and I never called him back, because he was a contractor with a THICK Southern accent and I was worried that if I ended up with him that I would end up lonely in the South for the rest of my days and never see the parts of the world that I dreamed of seeing. I was still kind of thinking of him off and on when I met STBX and I felt like with him I *would* see the world (which I didn't, unless you count the four states we've lived in) and that my life would be bigger than with the cute, sweet, tall Southern contractor.
I was SUCH A SNOB. And I don't know now if I regret it or not. And I worry that that part of me hasn't gone away and I'm going to miss the next possibly wonderful person who comes my way out of the same shallowness. What if Tall Cute Contractor was The One and I blew it? And bought myself this lovely experience of heartache and divorce and hurting my children over a shallow expectation that a contractor couldn't show me the world?
Just to clarify... I'm not ready to date yet. But I have had the chance to look around me and see how many fun things there are to do in my neck of the woods, and I would love to have someone around to share those good times with. And it sure would be a fun adventure to do that stuff with someone who gives me a little zing.
MB - What a reflective/introspective post. I think it is very thoughtful & curious about what your future looks like, but for the most part slightly sad, which is understandable.
For some reason, a couple hundred dollars to GoDaddy -- anyone know what that could be about?
Most likely for a website domain, or business emails, or a combination there of. If you really were interested you could look at their packages and figure it out.
And it hurts more that he's spending his money in such lonely ways than seeing evidence that he has a girlfriend, or dare I dream it, actual friends of his own. I hate seeing that he spent day after day eating alone in the same few restaurants, and then spent $200 on alcohol. I wish I saw a better life for him. It hurts that this is who he's decided to be. I had a high opinion of him. I thought he was a good man, a smart man. He was charming and handsome and had the best smile. Sometimes I could tell him how much he meant to me and his eyes would tear up. But now he's just a frat boy.
I think you are reading into this & doing so incorrectly. People don't choose poorly, they choose to not change as their relationship does. IMHO, seeing him like this now, shows only that he is hurting on some level. And trying to drown his sorrows. He is most likely grieving the loss of his relationship just as you are. Yet doing it much differently than you are. The person you meet and married was the best version of himself. Over time that person changed or choose not to change as the situation did for many many reasons. The takeaway is that you had a hand in the person he became as he did.
Anyway, I'm so done with all this. I wish I were on to the next phase. My life is still feeling sort of heavy and my days are dragging and I feel trapped in limbo and no sense of how things will work out.
We don't have to know each step, but we do have to know what we want. Think about what you want, in 5 years, 10 years, where will you be? what do you want? who will you be with? Think hard about your goals, and the individual steps to meeting them will come. When they do.... CARPE DIEM!
It's the fear that no one will ever love me. I don't know if STBX ever did because I can't imagine loving someone and building a life with them and letting that love, that relationship die on purpose, but since I clearly don't understand him at all I don't think I'll ever know if that was his version of love.
In the words of Mary Poppins this is Pure Poppycock! (Honestly I have no idea if she said that). Regardless, we can't comprehend it b/c it was not us who wanted it. However, the idea that love will not come, that "the One" will not come... I believe to be a fallacy. If you are open to it, it will appear, when you stop looking for it. There is no such thing as The One. In fact there are millions of "The Ones." There are people upon people upon people that will be lucky to be with MB.
he was a contractor with a THICK Southern accent and I was worried that if I ended up with him that I would end up lonely in the South for the rest of my days and never see the parts of the world that I dreamed of seeing
You came to that decision pretty quick. Definitely judged the guy rather severely rather quickly. Live and learn Girl!
Goodluck MB!
Yesterday afternoon my boss came to me and told me something kind of nasty about my lawyer. I think it's upset me more than I realized. So I'm lying awake in the middle of the night at the end of a long, nasty week when I really, really need my sleep, wrestling with all this.
I think it comes down to two things:
1. If it's true what she said, it doesn't matter because that's his personal life and it doesn't interfere with his business of being my advocate.
2. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Who she's shown me to be is a judgmental insensitive and uncompassionate person who thinks her opinions are superior to anyone else's. Who he's shown me to be is a demanding bulldog with a LOT of compassion for my situation who is determined to get everything he can for me. He's not without flaws but he has been kind.
He has built me up some too. I complained about the other lawyer saying I had made "demands" and my lawyer said "He!! Yes you're making demands, and after what he's put you through you're entitled to them!"
I've been really thinking about that a lot. The idea that I'm entitled to take up space in the world. That not all entitlement is bad, if you're appropriately considerate of others. That I have been treated very badly by STBX and it's NOT ok. He never said what made him unhappy but it's not my responsibility to guess. All he ever said was "This isn't what I want." I can't do anything about that. And he treated me very dishonestly. He used me. That is not ok.
I could fill my whole signature block with life lessons.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Where your heart is, there your treasure will be also.
I believed I could, so I did.
Actually, I'm going to edit that one to say:
I believe I can, so I will.
Hey mayb, it's been a big trip my lovely.
But you know what we are still here, the southern dude may have been a one, but there is no the one. There is a another one or the next one or a better one.
You can build something with anyone the person really doesn't matter so much it matters the character of the persona and the values they hold.
And my L is still fighting the good fight, but it's not done yet either. I was it were but it's not.
I've moved over to Surviving the Big D. I don't think I have much to add here anymore. Thank you all for keeping up with me, I hope you visit me from time to time.
Maybell XXXVI