W dropped bomb March 16. EA with OM. Initially there was talk of divorce, first by me (I was reactionary and not yet following DR). Oh, this is the second EA in 5 years. I gave her ultimatums, tried to pull her closer, etc. As you might have guessed that backfired and on April 10, W told me she had seen a lawyer and wanted a divorce.
April 12, she broke down, while I did not yet know about DR or 180's I was trying to detach anyway and followed some of those guidelines.
April 13, she said she wanted to wait on talking to lawyers. April 14, I discovered 180's and am implementing those as best as I can. We are not separated and she is still sharing a bed. I am trying to GAL and always be happy and upbeat around her. We have two young daughters.
Reflecting on a little over a week of this, there has been some positive progress, for example, she's been nicer to me, I've seen a little bit of vulnerability, she wants to do things as a family and she even called me at work on Monday (although she had to leave a voice mail, which I didn't get until Tuesday).
I haven't brought up our relationship or the EA. We chat every morning over coffee usually about our daughter's logistic stuff or what our work day might look like (should I stop doing this?)
Today over coffee, our relationship sort of came up. I suppose I started it, but not intentionally, and not with something controversial, but she took it and ran with it a bit. I tried to just listen and validate. She revealed that she is torn and very stressed out. She's torn because she has shut me out and shutdown in certain ways in our marriage and she's not sure if she can "turn those things back on." I just listened and tried to validate by saying, "this must be really hard on you."
I desperately need help with my next step and how to approach the 180's. I am not saying I love you, there is no physical affection, I am doing my best to GAL (within the confines of parenting two young kids). For me it's been a 180 to be interested in her work-day, so I do listen about that quite a bit, but is that a mistake? Am I giving her too much of myself by doing this?
She has not mentioned anything about reconciliation, nor the OM. All I know at this point is that she doesn't seem convinced that she wants a D.
Please help.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi. Post often because the vets are a great help. From your perspective , why is your W looking for D ?
Take care. Rd
When she first dropped bomb we talked about this quite a bit. Since I implemented 180 though we haven't talked about it at all. But, here's my take away from those talks and reading.
There's a lot of resentment built up. Not for any one thing I ever did or didn't do. I would say rather for unmet expectations. This resentment led to lack of (and/or unfulfilling) physical and emotional intimacy. Then, we drifted apart emotionally, etc. So, she's debating whether it's possible to repair things or if she should just start over.
We actually separated once before (5 1/2) years ago and reconciled 2 months after we had physically separated. At that time, I didn't know 180 and basically pushed her out of the house. But, clearly, despite having gone to counseling when we reconciled last time and improving communication, there were unresolved issues that remain.
From 5 love languages, her primary love types are Quality Time and Acts of Service. I would say that I lost site of these and instead of her reminding or asking me about it, she just let resentment build up. Now, for my 180 I've been trying to keep these more of a primary focus, but it does seem at times to be at odds with detaching myself.
When the bomb first dropped we talked about this quite a bit and as you might expect the answers were many and varied. This was before I implemented a 180. It’s also worth noting that we separated for several months 5 ½ years ago. At that time I did not know about the 180 and I basically pushed her out (which forced a 180) and she came back after being on her own (and sharing placement) for 2 ½ months.
Anyway, I would say that the reason she interested in D now are similar to before. Her love languages are Quality Time and Acts of Service. I can admit that I lost sight of this. For her part, instead of reminding me that this was important, she let resentment build up. This resentment led to the typical emotional distance and unfulfilling physical intimacy. What she revealed is that she doesn’t know if she can get over the resentment (she says she’s shut part of herself off). Of course when I hear this I try to remind myself of Sandi’s rules “believe none of what she says.” And I just validated for her that this must be really tough on her.
For me a 180 is to spend more quality time with her and show her acts of service. But, by doing this, it seems at times that I am actually doing the negative of a prescribed 180. I.E., in order to show her quality time, I have to spend time with her. Although, I am trying to do this in moderation. I.E., I truly make it about quality instead of quantity and then after some time I excuse myself.
Am I doing this right? What are my next steps? Why did she call me at work on Monday (just to be nice) and then nothing has happened since then?
There's a lot of resentment built up. Not for any one thing I ever did or didn't do. I would say rather for unmet expectations. This resentment led to lack of (and/or unfulfilling) physical and emotional intimacy. Then, we drifted apart emotionally, etc. So, she's debating whether it's possible to repair things or if she should just start over.
We actually separated once before (5 1/2) years ago and reconciled 2 months after we had physically separated. At that time, I didn't know 180 and basically pushed her out of the house. But, clearly, despite having gone to counseling when we reconciled last time and improving communication, there were unresolved issues that remain.
From 5 love languages, her primary love types are Quality Time and Acts of Service. I would say that I lost site of these and instead of her reminding or asking me about it, she just let resentment build up. Now, for my 180 I've been trying to keep these more of a primary focus, but it does seem at times to be at odds with detaching myself.
Hello Badger, as Cadet mentioned, sorry you have to be here but you came to the right place!
Your situation sounds similar to mine. We were separated in 2009 for about 1 month. but W did not file for D and we reconciled. My W let a lot of resentment build up inside of her without letting me know, or maybe I wasn't listening closely enough. Her main issue - I became "smothering." She has MS, was in a terrible car wreck in July 2013, and I got over-protective of her. That's a very quick update on my sitch. I've been posting since Christmas.
My advice is not profound. What I do suggest is taking very seriously any advice you get on this forum. There are so many wonderful, caring people. Also, try to keep a stiff upper lip and live one day at a time because that's all any of us gets.
Between therapy, folks on this forum and truly taking things one day at a time and focusing on making myself a "Better Bob" I have made it thru 6 months of separation and D proceedings. Am I perfectly happpy? No way...but I feel better about myself and also feel stronger than I have in a l-o-n-g time.
I wish you well.
Bob
For me a 180 is to spend more quality time with her and show her acts of service. But, by doing this, it seems at times that I am actually doing the negative of a prescribed 180. I.E., in order to show her quality time, I have to spend time with her. Although, I am trying to do this in moderation. I.E., I truly make it about quality instead of quantity and then after some time I excuse myself.
Am I doing this right? What are my next steps? Why did she call me at work on Monday (just to be nice) and then nothing has happened since then?
My suggestion is to detach, Let GO, you may be past the point that you can fill her needs.
She more than likely needs space and giving quality time is going to push her away.
Reread my first post!
Cadet, I've read nearly all of the links in your first post. Is there one specifically I should focus on?
Does anyone have suggestions how to best detach when living in the same house together with kids? What I've been doing is just going to the health club as much as I can. But that is usually after the kids are in bed. We still have dinner together most nights unless one of us has a meeting.
Should I stop having coffee with her in the morning? Or, alternatively keep that tradition up and just keep the focus on kids only? If I stop having coffee with her, it would be odd because then I would just be sitting at a different table having coffee.
Sorry, I also committed to going to a play with she and our little daughters tomorrow night. Should I cancel that?
Sorry, I also committed to going to a play with she and our little daughters tomorrow night. Should I cancel that?
What do you want to do?
Personally I would not let anybody stop me from being the BEST possible DAD that I can be.
Do you normally go to these plays?
How do you act?
As far as the coffee.
Are the two of you just sitting at the table drinking coffee or is their conversation involved too?
What if she was a college roomate, how would you treat her then?
I try to keep the college roommate analogy in mind. I don't go out of my way to have coffee with her, it's natural. If she were a college roommate I would have coffee at the table with her.
When having coffee I don't initiate conversation and generally just let her talk, or if I initiate conversation, it's about logistics of the kids (at least I try my best). I do not bring up any relationship stuff though.
What do you want to do?
Personally I would not let anybody stop me from being the BEST possible DAD that I can be.
Do you normally go to these plays?
How do you act?
Hi Badger,
Being a Dad myself, I agree 100% with Cadet. So, do you normally go to these plays? If so, then please do go.
Post an update when you have time. You'll get thru this!
Bob
I'd been noticing little changes all week, like my wife being nicer to me, opening up a little bit, wanting to do family things etc.
But today wow. She told me she loved me and then asked if I wanted a kiss. (it's been weeks since she said this). I was taken aback and told her I loved her too and did give her a kiss as we both left for work. I hope I didn't mess this up.
As an aside it is my birthday tomorrow so I'm a little cautious about that. I plan to continue to detach by going out with friends and family for my birthday. I had made these plans weeks ago.
I could really use some advice though on what my next steps are with my wife. She hasn't specifically said that she wants to reconcile nor has she brought up the EA with the OM. Do I probe these points or do I follow as the 180 says and not bring them up?
She is testing you to see if your changes are real.
Keep your plans with your friends, and
have a great time on your birthday,
without her.
Looks like the pursuit and distance dance continues.
Did you read that thread in the homework?
Cadet, yes, I read the pursuit and distance article and am doing my best to follow that. I am definitely not pursuing.
I will keep my plans with my friends and family.
Any ideas on next steps with her relative to the EA with OM and/or a reconciliation talk? Do I just wait and let her bring those things up?
What if she wants more affection (kisses, hugs, holding hands)? It would feel good, but am I better off keeping distance there? Perhaps not offer my hand, or offer my hug, but if she initiates then I return?
Cadet, yes, I read the pursuit and distance article and am doing my best to follow that. I am definitely not pursuing.
Yes I agree, you have distanced yourself and you now got her pursuing.
That is the dynamic that you want.
I am sure if you pursue her she will distance herself from you.
I like using the following analogy.
Think like you are feeding a squirrel.
Hold out your hand with a nut and let her eat from your hand.
No sudden movements towards or away.
She needs to feel comfortable eating out of your hand.
Last night after taking the girls to a play and putting them to bed, I did some work and then turned a video on. After hearing the music wife came in wondering what I was watching and sat down with me. I took this as a good sign. No I love you's last night, just polite goodnights.
Today is my birthday so it's a weird day. Wife wished me happy birthday. Then later told me she loved me (once) and again asked if I wanted a kiss. I said to her "do you want to give me a kiss?" She sort of reiterated with "well do you want one?" To which I responded, "if you want to give me a kiss I would like one." Then she gave me a few kisses and a nice hug. When it was done I did not linger or try and "get more." We just moved on.
Did I handle this okay? Today I am heading to spend the day and night with friends and family (for my birthday). She is taking the girls to see her brother. So, I will naturally be detaching and distancing today. I plan to give my cell phone to someone else so that I am not tempted to text or anything.
Just looking for some affirmation here.
Just going to comment on the niceness. Try not to take that as a good sign, it just causes you to develop expectations. Work on yourself and put the focus on you. There are tons of reasons she could be being nice to you, and you dont know if its a good or bad reason.
My W has been nice to me through most of our sitch and I would always think things were getting better in the back of my mind. It just made things that much harder when I discovered something that indicated it wasn't. The truth was she was so consumed with thoughts of the EA and OM that being nice to me justified her actions in her own head. Or so I would think if I were mindreading.
Regardless, don't take her emotions too seriously one way or another, they can be all over the place. Good reactions could me bad things, and bad reactions could mean good things. The opposite could also be true, you just never know.
A little help on the kiss thing. Yesterday it was really nice when she asked me if I wanted a kiss. Today I feel a little different. By her asking me if I want a kiss, it puts me in a spot of deciding. That doesn't seem right.
I was thinking of telling her the next time she asks if I want a kiss (if that happens), "You don't have to ask me if I want a kiss. If you would like to give me a kiss, it is always welcome." Or something like that.
What does everyone think?
A combination of journaling and looking for support tonight. If you’ve been reading my posts you know I was shocked a couple of ways ago when my WW told me she loved me. For the past few days prior to that there was a different look about her, like a bit of vulnerability had inched back. That was Friday. Yesterday was my birthday, I had previously planned to spend it with family and friends, which I did (out of town) and she took the D’s to her brothers.
We both got back late Sunday afternoon and it has been a tough night. No affection from her. Some of that iciness is back. I’m doing my best to keep up with my 180’s but my anxiety is so high. I really have to fake feeling good and confident tonight. I haven’t had this much anxiety in several weeks.
Having read articles that Cadet posted including LBH post by Sandi2, I know that I shouldn’t be surprised by my WW swing in moods, emotions and affection. But tonight is just really hard.
I’m doing my best to maintain distance, try to make her the pursuer, but today I can tell she is really resisting. Tonight we went through our calendar for the week (to figure out work schedules and drop off/pick up of our daughters at school.) I mentioned that I wanted to hang out with a friend one night (I already go to a support group on another night) and she was upset because she wants to hang out with a friend. I told her to just schedule her night with her friend and I would schedule a different night so that one of us is always home with our D’s. It’s complicated to completely detach and GAL with children and now I feel like she is beginning to resent my attempts to do so and just a couple of days ago she was acting so different.
Cadet mentioned the squirrel analogy and that I should make “any sudden movements.” I haven’t, I’ve stuck to exactly what seemed to be working, but at least today she’s not creeping any closer. Is there another strategy I need to try? I really need a little help and support tonight.
Is there another strategy I need to try? I really need a little help and support tonight.
PATIENCE!
Cadet, how do I navigate in order to keep patience. My anxiety hasn't been this high since the BD. It feels like this weekend would have been easier had she never told me last week that she loved me.
So, by patience, I'm assuming that you mean detach, GAL and keep following the 180's right?
So, by patience, I'm assuming that you mean detach, GAL and keep following the 180's right?
Yes - back to the squirrel analogy - what do you think would happen if you made a sudden movement towards or away from her.
Anyone have any tips in order to balance patience and anxiety (no I don't want to take anything).
Tonight I have a session with my therapist and then I intend to go to the health club. Then get home in time to put the D's to bed. I won't be home for dinner where normally I would have been.
Am I pulling back too much? There is so much second guessing in this.
Can I ask her what she meant last week when she said she loved me and then kissed me? It sure doesn't seem that way now.
Hi Badger.
I'm keeping up with your situation, and it seems there are alot of positives.
Let me caution you however. And I deliver this from my own past experiences.
When this happened to me, these overtures were tests. What I gather from these tests is that she is determining if she has control over you or not.
So, she has an emotional affair which in my view is just as damnable as a physical one, and now she is giving you affection and love and you are sucking it in like some lost puppy. She knows you are afraid of her and that she can control you.
And let's admit it, you are afraid of her.
In my case, this was all self defeating. She lost respect for me. And once her tests for control were successful, the situation went from hopeful to eunuch.
I don't know if this is happening in your case. You are living it and you're going to have to watch her attitude. I will tell you this, the moment you sense she has lost respect for you, a different direction needs to be considered.
Also, I want you to understand something. The possibility of a PA is always there. I'm not trying to give you more anxiety but don't believe a word she is saying.
My advice?
Fear and anxiety is defeated by boundaries. If she is currently in an EA, let her know that you will never accept that. You can't stop her, but you don't have to tolerate it. There are ways to improve a relationship, going to OM is not a solution. Remember, WAS use AP's as a tool to break off relationships. A's are not the reason why the M broke down. It was broken before the A.
Start letting her go. Implement boundaries, no contact, detach, and concentrate on yourself and your kids.
"Oh but I will lose her if I do this".
I had that thought too. But back then, even with the hope, I had in fact lost her the moment she had the A.
Also, try an app called Headspace (meditation).
TenBook thanks for following along and your words of encouragement. Yesterday was a tough day, it's a relief to hear from someone that's been there.
I have no doubt that the EA is (or was) also a PA. I don't know if either is still going on although I find it hard to believe the EA isn't as they are co-workers.
Yes, you are right, she has all of the control right now and probably those overtures came last week because I implemented the 180's and at least gave the illusion that I was taking control over myself. Then, I fell for her bait when she said she loved me. Ironically, the first time she said it was last Thursday and I thought she was talking to the D, so I ignored it, then she said it emphatically the next day. If/when she says it again, I will do a better job with boundaries and not take the bait.
I have a question about setting up boundaries with the EA/PA. Sandie's 180 rules say to..
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
If I bring up a conversation now about the EA/PA in order to set boundaries, doesn't that fly in the face of the 180's, which seem to just "act as if" I am moving on.
If I bring up a conversation now about the EA/PA in order to set boundaries, doesn't that fly in the face of the 180's, which seem to just "act as if" I am moving on.
What is the boundary you want to set?
And why must you speak to her to do it?
A boundary is for you, like a line in the sand that says if you cross this line I will......
So what is the boundary and what is your consequence?
Cadet, I was responding to TenBook's post, suggesting I set a boundary regarding the EA/PA.
I'm trying to remember back to the BD day/week. I'm pretty sure I set some boundaries. She doesn't carry on the EA from home (at least not in front of me) and frankly, she's home nearly all of the time and her whereabouts are not in question. So, if there is a PA, it's happening at times I have no control over anyway.
Now, she is supposed to go on a business trip with several colleagues in June, presumably including OM. As that time nears (depending on where we even are in our relationship), I will have to set boundaries or I will go nuts. But for the time being it doesn't seem useful to push the issue.
The boundary I am interested in setting is one with her saying "I love you" and then kissing me, etc. As much as I'd like to ask her about it, I think it would be more productive for me to just set this boundary personally, so that if she does tell me that, I just say thanks, and if she asks if I want a kiss, or she tries to kiss me, I would just say, not now, thanks.
I need this boundary because of how I felt over the weekend, being played like a pinball.
What about that?
The boundary I am interested in setting is one with her saying "I love you" and then kissing me, etc. As much as I'd like to ask her about it, I think it would be more productive for me to just set this boundary personally, so that if she does tell me that, I just say thanks, and if she asks if I want a kiss, or she tries to kiss me, I would just say, not now, thanks.
The boundary is fine, but just put it in force, you don't need to tell her about it.
The anxiety was killing me so I casually asked my wife why she told me she loved me last week. (Note, this may have been the wrong thing to do, but it was the right thing for me. The anxiety, the not knowing anything, was going to eat me alive).
Anyway, the answer was "well I'll always love you and I haven't said that in a while." Sounds a lot like ilybinilwy right? She said she also appreciated the space and that it wasn't like a pressure cooker at home. Then she said, but we can't go on like this forever right. I said, "no, not forever." So, she said, why don't we check in on Friday with where we are.
Right now, this seems better than limbo. (can't remember if I posted this or not, but my wife and I were separated 5 years ago and the limbo nearly did me in then, so I know I can't take the limbo). But, I will be very anxious on Friday night. I'm going to do my best to prepare to hear "we should separate" or "we should get a divorce." I mean she already said 3 weeks ago that we should get a divorce and then she decided she wanted space to think about it.
So, my question is this, assuming she says she wants a S or D, how do I react. Frankly, at that point, I think I'll just be ready to move on, so how do I do that with dignity?
I think I would like to stay in the house. However, in my state no one can kick the other out of the house. Anyone have any ideas on how to get her to leave? Alternatively, I've been looking at apartments so I could just go (after getting everything legally lined up with D's).
Any suggestions on leaving versus staying?
Any suggestions on leaving versus staying?
What do you want?
If you want a divorce then just keep asking and pressuring her.
If you don't then STOP and give her the space she is asking for,
I am sure by friday night she does not need a pressuring question from YOU.
Nor will she be FIXED and whole and healed.
LET GO of this at least for now.
Take the focus off of her and put it on yourself.
My .02
Cadet, I'm not sure how I was asking and pressuring her? Yes, I did ask for clarification on last week, but I think I deserved that, and I don't regret it. If anything I regret telling her back last week that I loved her.
For now, what's done is done and I can't undue it.
But, I would like some advice on how I approach the conversation that she says she wants to have on Friday night. Once she brings up the conversation, I was thinking of saying something like "so how are you feeling about things?" I'm sure someone can help me with something better to ask than this though.
Obviously I'm going to review validating statements prior to then as well.
Please more help!!!
Badger, I'm no expert. Unfortunately, my learning comes from my mistakes more often than not.
She said she loved you. Which is awesome. Do you think she thought about it for days after she said it?
Asking her about it days later will seem like pressure to her. Anything you do or say about your M, how good she looks, how much you love her... that feels like pressure to her.
Lay low and be upbeat while you're at home. If you feel yourself wanting to engage her in conversation about the M, leave the house. Go for a walk, clean out the garage, do anything but talk to her about M.
My W will throw the "I love you"s around like crazy. I reply with "I love you" or "I like you a lot" (forrest gump voice) to make her laugh. I used to go temp insane and start talking to her about M, cheating, kids.... arrrgggh, it was bad.
Lay low and chill. Keep calm and if it's hard to keep calm, just go do something. Run, walk, whatever.
Good luck.
Well we are talking about the M on Friday night. She scheduled it not me. I can avoid any talk of it until then, but it's going to happen.
Any advice on how to handle that actual conversation?
Well we are talking about the M on Friday night. She scheduled it not me. I can avoid any talk of it until then, but it's going to happen.
Any advice on how to handle that actual conversation?
I think the best advice is to mirror her and validate whatever she says.
Have you read up on validation yet?
Thank you. Assuming she says she wants a divorce, I plan on leaving for the night and staying at a friends, so as to not cause any arguing etc. I would essentially go dark for a day or two and just tell her I was taking some time to think and would be back no later than Sunday night. Is this the right thing?
She is getting more irritable. I have been following the 180's/last resort to a T. I am not bringing anything regarding the M up. Conversations are friendly, but focused on logistics of the kids.
Trying to GAL or at least make it look like I am GAL. Last night after the D's went to bed, I just went to Starbucks to do some work. At least try to be a little mysterious.
The only thing that's come up recently was that a credit card bill came and I didn't recognize a charge so I had to ask her about it. She just said that it was her original consultation with her attorney and I said "oh, okay."
There's little doubt that she'll be telling me tonight (assuming she still wants to talk, I'm not going to push it), that she's ready for a divorce. I'm prepared to mirror and validate. If/when I feel my emotions getting out of check, my exit strategy is to simply tell her that I'm leaving and spending the night at a friends so that I can take some time to process and think about what she's said.
Any support would be helpful from this virtual world. I'll post tonight or tomorrow what happens as I'm sure I'll need some additional advice.
I'm prepared to mirror and validate. If/when I feel my emotions getting out of check, my exit strategy is to simply tell her that I'm leaving and spending the night at a friends so that I can take some time to process and think about what she's said.
Hello Badger,
I'm happy to hear you are taking Cadet's advice to mirror and vaildate.
When you have time, please try to post an update.
I wish you well.
Bob
I had a bagged packed and in my car for an exit strategy Friday night (had arranged to stay at a friends if needed).
After the D's went to bed, she said she wanted to talk. I sat and validated my butt off. Good advice to read the validation cheat sheet and remember to believe none of what she said. So, basically the way it ended Friday night was with her admitting she has no idea what she wants to do.
So, I go out with friends on Saturday night. Then she wants to talk again tonight. I commit to listening and validating none-the-less. This time, she starts in with she wants a divorce because ILYBINILWY but she's not ready to divorce because of all the logistic crap (finances, etc.).
This time I validated but countered with some tough love. By now, frankly, I'm worn out. This is the second time in 6 years she's pulled this on me. She told me she didn't think she could ever have sex with me again but that she still loved me. I validated her thought, but then told her I couldn't live with that. That I needed someone that loved me for who I was and was comfortable both physically and emotionally intimate. She countered by saying that she just didn't know if she could do that.
So I guess where it ended is, she still doesn't know what she wants to do. But I did tell her what I needed from a marriage and I told her that if she reached the conclusion that she couldn't or wouldn't be willing to work toward those things, then she should file.
It ended with her asking me why I love her, so I told her. And then she said she would need some time to think. So, I told her, well, when you are ready to talk again let me know.
Thank God my expectations were low on Friday and even lower today. Thanks everyone for keeping up with me and thinking of me.
Oh yeah, one more fun tid-bit. She really didn't like it when I told her that should we get divorced, I would stop loving her. She just couldn't understand that. I just said, I won't be able to, I'll have to move on.
Now you must
G
A
L
Do not pursue. Do not pursue. Do not pursue.
So I'm struggling today. I'm back at work, missing my D's even though I'll see them tonight as it will be a normal night.
I won't pursue, but I am contemplating more than ever just filing. I can't take this limbo a whole lot longer. At some point the D's will notice that there is no affection in our house (between the W and me). They shouldn't think that's okay.
The loneliness, rejection and lack of any affection hurt, I'm just trying to pull further back.
Is there anyone on this board that this has actually worked for? And, what does "worked" look like?
As a side note, my W was sexually abused as a child, I don't think that has been fully resolved and I don't believe she has any interest in trying to further heal. So, even if this does "work" aren't I just setting myself up for a similar incident in the coming months, years?
oooooo
It just got complicated.
I was sexually abused as a child. There are many many marital side affects. My destroyed marriage is absolutely a result of my emotional deficiencies left over from the abuse.
I really really think that following the LRT may not be the right move for you. You are going to tweak out her fear of rejection, her fear of abandonment.
There are some really good books out there for spouses of sexual abuse victims. You might consider reading one or two of those before you make any decisions.
You are in a situation where you REALLY have to understand that you can't fix her.
Healing only occurs in the context of a relationship though. You can be with her, but she has to choose to heal.
I did not acknowledge my abuse until I was in my early 30's. However, when I acknowledged my abuse, I did not truly deal with it.
A few years later, I'm watching my life fall apart around me, in every way shape and form, and I've only just now realized the extent to which my abuse has formed my life.
I tell this to you to make the point that many people keep their abuse secret for a very long time. And personally, when I finally choose to reveal the secret, I thought that was the end of it. I realize now, that is only the first step.
And it is common for many years to pass between healing steps.
Winhamm thanks.
Her greatest issue is that she wants to have sex (she says) but not with me. I wonder if at some point I triggered something and it will just always be a blocker for her.
I also wonder if for her, she thinks divorce is easier than dealing with whatever this might be (or if she even realizes it).
I'm surely not going to bring it up.
But, since she's done this twice in 5 years, and at least at this point she's not willing to even consider counseling (either on her own or together), if I'm not better off just cutting bait. It's now a pattern. Become disillusioned with husband, seek something from OM.
It's appearing ever clearer to me that she needs to rely on someone else to make her happy to fulfill her and she doesn't want (or think) I'm that person. My thinking is that perhaps no one will ever be able to fill that void for her and I risk a lifetime of unhappiness should we stay together.
You are making absolutely valid arguments and observations.
I think you are right on track thinking she has a void in her that only she can heal, but she's trying to find someone else to heal it.
Yes it probably is a pattern. It will probably continue in some form.
Again, I would encourage you to read some books on being married to a survivor of sexual abuse. I have some sitting around, you are welcome to them if you like. PM me your address.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but this is a life changing decision and I think you should be well informed about the specific nuances of dealing with someone who was sexually abused.
Winhamm, do you mind just posting the names of the books here. Amazon Prime works wonderfully for me.
Haunted Marriage (entire book devoted to the subject)
The Courage to Heal (has a section on partners)
Those are the ones I have stashed at work. I have to admit I have not read them yet.
I have a number of others, however they are all focused on male survivors of abuse (cause I'm a dude). I'm sure their are other good books that would focus on partners of women survivors.
You may want to be discrete about this. It's hard to imagine what her reaction might be to finding you reading about this. She may rebel hard against the insinuation that she is "broken" or "different" (because, that is EXACTLY how she feels and she will resent that you see it too).
Thanks Winhamm. Yes, I know to be discrete. I went there on this subject 6 years ago. I think these books will only be helpful, if she wants to reconcile and if she has an interest in me reading them.
Badger.
Sexual abuse needs to be dealt with therapy.
Has she done any?
TenBook,
Yes she has had therapy off and on for 20+ years. Some with me and some without.
The last time we reconciled she told me that she had fully vetted this issue, or at least that it wouldn't impact us.
I can't force her to get more therapy, so basically I still follow the same rules, GAL and don't pursue.
So, the W came home after some meetings last night and said she had a bad day at work. I listened, validated, etc. Then she started talking about how the past 3 1/2 months have been so tough on her that her work has suffered (in my head I was like "really!!! no kidding.)
Then, I followed GAL and went to work out.
This morning I told her I hoped she would have a better day today. Then, on her way out the door, she tried eating cake. She asked me if I would give her a kiss. My response was a polite "why don't we talk about it tonight." I learned my lesson from the kiss thing a couple of weeks ago, I'm not going to be her plan B.
So, tonight, if she brings it up, I think Cadet's advice would be, "feed the squirrel, no sharp movements toward or away."
So, just a FYI, sexual abuse is never fully healed and it will always impact the marriage.
The damage can be mitigated, and one of the reasons I suggested you do some reading on it, is that it may bring you some peace to understand the experiences common to people in your situation.
EDIT I'd also say she's not eating cake, she's responding to her insecurity. Tread lightly, if you push that insecurity button further, she will react poorly and unpredictably (or perhaps totally predictably if you know her well enough).
The way you approach her is the key. You can, and should, express your thoughts and feelings honestly to her, but in order to have successful communication with her, it's important to do it in a kind and loving manner (as much love as you can drum up at this point).
So, W got home late last night (as planned) from a meeting. As the hour was getting later I was beginning to have more anxiety about whether she would even bring up the morning's incident (request for a kiss)... and if she didn't whether I should (given Sandi's rules).
As I thought through that anxiety, I realized what I was really afraid of was rejection, and once I knew that, I realized that rejection really isn't so bad at this point (I mean how much more could she reject me). So, when she got home, I was watching basketball and when she came in the room I was in, I just said "how was your day?" And she said, "very busy." I said, "do you want to talk about it?" and she responded, "not really, it was just busy." And then I said, "do you want to talk about this morning?" She said, "no." So then I just let it drop.
It was of course disappointing (although thankfully not so bad because I had low expectations), but it certainly relieved my anxiety, so I'm glad I just asked and then let it drop.
This morning, was back to normal (whatever that is). She still talks about things like what we want to do this weekend, next weekend, etc.
One question, this weekend is mother's day. She's made plans with her mom and the D's so I don't intend to insert myself. However, should I get her a card? The rules say no. But what about a card that I just sign with my name, no "love" or anything like that.
Winhamm, I think you were right. I had moments of clarity yesterday amidst all of this chaos and decided that I could no longer continue with the status quo. For me, it felt better to put the cards on the table and have a real conversation.
So, last night I asked her what Wednesday morning was all about. She told me that that morning her pendulum had swung toward me, but that at present (36 hours later) it had swung the other way and wasn't going to swing back.
I followed up by asking if there was anything she was willing to do to work on our marriage. She replied by saying "no." I then told her that I'd be contacting my attorney to get the process started. She said (with a smile on her face), "oh, I was thinking the same thing and was just going to tell you Monday." Really???
I am at more peace today than quite a while. It will bother me for sometime, wondering... "what if I had just kissed her on Wednesday morning?" But, ultimately, I think it would have just prolonged my pain and led to this same result.
Badger, I'm just getting caught up on your sitch, but I would advise no card from you. She is not your mother and she fired you, so no card. Just help the kids if they want to make her something.
