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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...656#Post2552656Today is another day - one foot in front of the other.
I have my IC appointment, a full day of work and then hit the gym after work. My kids are on Spring Break and I miss them. I will see them on Friday. I have worked on their Easter Baskets and have made plans for church, and Easter egg hunt and lunch with friends.
I will add items to my gratitude journal as the day progresses.
Keeping on
That's what we need to do, keep going. One step closer to happiness.
Sounds like fun with your kids over the weekend, I'll be doing the same with mine. Friday we do this marshmallow drop. Somewhat random, but a helicopter drops a bunch of marshmallows onto the kids from above. Egg hunt Saturday and then church on Sunday.
Stay strong, we will get through this.
Thanks Fogg
Marshmellow drop sounds like fun! Wish they did that in my neck of the woods.
Heavy,
Don't forget to pack some Peeps! Easter isn't the same without them in the basket.
Hey Heavy
Keep on keeping on - great PMA!!!
Easter memory: fruit stripe gum (10 seconds of flavor - hours of fun) plus - you can't go wrong with a rainbow zebra - right?
Peeps and fruit stripe gum are staged to go into baskets. Thanks for the ideas!
Heavy
Heavy D,
Tell me about gratitude journal please.
Kramer
Thanks for asking.
I got a lot of feedback about my negativity and pessimism which I heard loud and clear. It is not attractive, it is self defeating and no one likes to be around an Eyeore.
My gratitude journal is nothing fancy, I am just writing down on a Word document things that I am grateful for. I have so many things to be grateful for. It takes my mind off the turmoil in one area of my life and refocuses it on other areas that are going well. When I write my gratitudes down, the positve feeling does make me feel better about my situation and life in general and reminds me to focus on ME.
Some examples are items I have written are:
I have a house to live in
I have a job that I love
I have made new friends
I have a lot of old friends
I have family that love me
I have two healthy children
Each day I will add some more items that I am grateful for. It's a nice way to remind myself of how very thankful I should be for my life and the people in it.
Would you care to share what things you are grateful for? I expect there will be many.
You are correct. Despite the heartache of losing my wife and how it went down, I actually have a lot to be thankful for.
I have a great job that I love.
I can make a positive difference in my patient's lives.
I have a nice home, and it is now clean and organized.
I have good health.
I am able to travel.
I have 8 beautiful grandchildren.
I have 4 awesome adult children.
I still have a relationship with my stepchildren.
Etc.
Kramer
Your list sounds fantastic!
Wow your time line suggests that everything went quickly. The PA discovery 12/31 until Divorce papers 3/15. That must have been double hard.
I am sorry for that, I know it is painful.
That's part of why it is taking me so long to move on. This whole thing happened so quick. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that just a few months ago we were making plans for the future and in what I thought was a loving relationship. Red flag behaviors November and December, me finding out on NYE, and her filing papers just over a week later. She still has yet to have a detailed conversation about her thoughts. All I get is crying and superficial excuses of not being happy. We never talked about separation or divorce before this, and never went to counseling. She has fallen hard for OM, and is embarrassed by her actions. She wants to mitigate her guilt and change timelines, so that's why she filed so quick and moved out. She is still moving full steam ahead on the divorce express and has not wavered.
Tomorrow I will retain a lawyer since she is not willing to work with me. I love her and I miss her, but she has made her choice in this matter. All that remains is for me to protect my assets and future, and continue working on me. I know I will survive, but I honestly feel like a failure and feel that we never even tried to save our relationship. That hurts.
That's part of why it is taking me so long to move on. This whole thing happened so quick. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that just a few months ago we were making plans for the future and in what I thought was a loving relationship. Red flag behaviors November and December, me finding out on NYE, and her filing papers just over a week later. She still has yet to have a detailed conversation about her thoughts. All I get is crying and superficial excuses of not being happy. We never talked about separation or divorce before this, and never went to counseling. She has fallen hard for OM, and is embarrassed by her actions. She wants to mitigate her guilt and change timelines, so that's why she filed so quick and moved out. She is still moving full steam ahead on the divorce express and has not wavered.
Tomorrow I will retain a lawyer since she is not willing to work with me. I love her and I miss her, but she has made her choice in this matter. All that remains is for me to protect my assets and future, and continue working on me. I know I will survive, but I honestly feel like a failure and feel that we never even tried to save our relationship. That hurts.
Alot of them are not happy because they are cheating on you. It feels bad, but it's easier to toss the betrayed asside than to assuage themselves of all the guilt and responsobility.
There's nothing you can do but let her go, you have not failed at all. Consider yourself lucky, because man men and women here have been dragged on for YEARS in sexless, loveless and affectionless marriages where they are being cheated on the entire time.
So I talked to my kids (who are on Spring Break) and spoke briefly with WAW. I was pleasant, cordial, shared a few laughs and talked about signing some tax papers on Friday which is a good thing. I said I hope everyone is having a good time and left it at that. I can tell from her demeanor that she has not read the letter from my attorney. I am guessing, yes I am but I am pretty sure.
What works for me interacting with her is being cordial and polite. I will definately jot that down in my what works journal, along with time of call, etc...
I dreaded talking to hear but faked a good and positive attitude. Talking with her causes me to feel a lot of pain and anger. I am not showing that to her. I am working on detachment and moving forward.
I am standing my ground and not being a doormat where she runs over me. In the past, I caved 99% of the time to keep her happy. Why? Because I believed that if she was happy, then all of us would be happy, less yelling, less tenseness, less of all the negative stuff. I focused on keeping her happy so as not to upset the applecart. Now I am trying to let that go and focus on ME, my happiness and what is good for our children. For me standing up to her, and refusing to be in an open marriage is a real 180. That part feels really good and my self esteem is improving.
I also went to my Divorce Support Group last night and I will add that to my gratitude journal as well. There were so many women who have it far worse than I do. I am humbled and see how many positive attributes I do in fact have.
I am beginning to feel that if/when the D does happen, it won't be the end of me. My support group talked about adjusting to our new normal and while tragic and sad, yes I think I am adjusting.
So I talked to my kids (who are on Spring Break) and spoke briefly with WAW. I was pleasant, cordial, shared a few laughs and talked about signing some tax papers on Friday which is a good thing. I said I hope everyone is having a good time and left it at that. I can tell from her demeanor that she has not read the letter from my attorney. I am guessing, yes I am but I am pretty sure.
What works for me interacting with her is being cordial and polite. I will definately jot that down in my what works journal, along with time of call, etc...
I dreaded talking to hear but faked a good and positive attitude. Talking with her causes me to feel a lot of pain and anger. I am not showing that to her. I am working on detachment and moving forward.
I am standing my ground and not being a doormat where she runs over me. In the past, I caved 99% of the time to keep her happy. Why? Because I believed that if she was happy, then all of us would be happy, less yelling, less tenseness, less of all the negative stuff. I focused on keeping her happy so as not to upset the applecart. Now I am trying to let that go and focus on ME, my happiness and what is good for our children. For me standing up to her, and refusing to be in an open marriage is a real 180. That part feels really good and my self esteem is improving.
I also went to my Divorce Support Group last night and I will add that to my gratitude journal as well. There were so many women who have it far worse than I do. I am humbled and see how many positive attributes I do in fact have.
I am beginning to feel that if/when the D does happen, it won't be the end of me. My support group talked about adjusting to our new normal and while tragic and sad, yes I think I am adjusting.
It's pretty simple. There is no "us" anymore. There is you and her alone. It would be wise to ensure that your needs are met in any interaction. Almost be selfish for what you need, she can say "no" or choose not to deal with you.
But you can't make it easy for her, because after all she is the one who is cheating you. Not the other way around.
You don't have to do anything at all to help her.g
Can I count this as a baby step? The positive phone call aspect.
HeavyD
I'm not trying to be the 2x4 queen here so I say this in a way that's meant to help you and I may be totally wrong but
What changes can you make for you? What are the things that have been brought up that 'sting'?
I think every positive sign is a positive baby step. In DR she says that we should be grateful for every little step.
Your gratitude journal is a lovely idea, and I hope you have a lovely Easter.
I feel blessed every day for my beautiful baby.
I feel blessed that I have a house, money, running water from taps, food in fridge.
I feel blessed I have access to free healthcare.
This is the hardest time in most of our lives I'm sure. But we have to focus on us. You have the support of all of us behind you and in a lot of people's prayers. God bless you
What sting - do you mean my pain of talking to my WAW? Is that the sting you mean?
Heavy,
So I talked to my kids (who are on Spring Break) and spoke briefly with WAW. I was pleasant, cordial, shared a few laughs and talked about signing some tax papers on Friday which is a good thing. I said I hope everyone is having a good time and left it at that. I can tell from her demeanor that she has not read the letter from my attorney. I am guessing, yes I am but I am pretty sure.
What works for me interacting with her is being cordial and polite. I will definately jot that down in my what works journal, along with time of call, etc...
I dreaded talking to hear but faked a good and positive attitude. Talking with her causes me to feel a lot of pain and anger. I am not showing that to her. I am working on detachment and moving forward.
I am glad you decided to approach the convo with a positive frame of mind and did some techniques we've been telling you all along. It was a matter of deciding to change things up and executing them properly. Yes, that is a baby step. Keep going in that direction.
As for W receiving L's letter, how she reacts is on her. We are in control of how we react to events, situations, incidents, and comments that are presented before us.
Thank you Cherry for the words of support.
May God bless you too
Hi T
I am not quite sure what you mean by stings. Can you be more specific?
I will do my best to answer your question.
I have started keeping a gratitude journal and listing my many blessings and trying to stay positive which will hopefully leave me in a better mood with myself and everyone else. Hopefully that will lead to me having the mindset to be open to happiness and be more "in the moment".
I have started a "What works Journal" and am listing all the things I am doing that "work" in my situation. Working meaning, no fighting, improved comunication with my WAW, reduced tension, better cooperation, etc...
So far I have learned that she responds best to my being cordial and polite. She also responds best during the morning hours. I have noted the baby steps and will try to build upon that.
So while everything about this situation upsets me greatly, I will continue to be grateful for what I do have, be focused more on ME and what makes me happy (walks, working out, playing music, swimming, reading, eating 3 meals per day, etc...).
I hope this answers your questions. If not, please elaborate.
Good on you for starting a gratitude journal. I see it recommended in several places for people who have a rough time, like us. I tried doing it for a while, but couldn't remember or be bothered. My own gratitude journal is a daily pic on Instagram, which forces me to seek beauty around me, gives me a record of my GAL and gives me a daily accomplishment (some days, it's precious!).
The only nuance I would bring is that, the way it was explained to me, you renew your list every day. So the way I would do it was "I'm grateful for the group hug with the kids in my bed this morning" (real life example!), "I'm grateful for the phone call from my friend", "I'm grateful for the delicious meal", etc. If you list that you're happy you have healthy kids only once, you'll arrive to the end of your list after a few weeks. The idea is to force your brain to seek reasons to be grateful all day, finding ideas for your gratitude journal.
Also, I'll state the obvious: You focus way too much on what your WW thinks and does! It will appear clearly to you when it happens: you really need to let go and just start doing the right thing for you. Have you read what Starsky
posted about Coach and Greek, the couple that reconciled a few years ago and were both posting here? Here it is.
What Greek says Coach did to win her back:
I will tell you what Coach did to win me back - after I left our home and filed for D. He stopped doing all the other things that got me to the point of walking out of the door. He stopped trying to arrange my reactions. He stopped trying to control what I would think or do. He stopped telling me how I should feel. He stopped telling me what would happen if... He dropped the rope and said WITH HIS ACTIONS: "Greek, I can see that you are hell bent on leaving for reasons that you have made abundantly clear to me. Some of those reasons have merit and I will deal with them for my own sake. But I can't keep you here and I won't try. The action I will take is to work on areas in my life that have contributed to the difficulties in our R and other R in my life; I will begin to take care of myself in a way I have neglected for some time now (GAL); I will handle protect myself against the legal action you took against our M; I will conduct myself with strength and honor." This was and is totally attractive! It's strong. It's confident. It's respectful - both of me and of Coach.
It's not about 'doing nothing.' It's about doing what works - putting the ACTION in the right place.
Greek
Think about it and how focusing on you is your best shot at re-attracting your WW. Not wondering how she'll react and what she thinks about every thing you do.
Great ideas Mozza about the gratitutde journal and breaking it down for specific things during the day to keep the gratitude going. You are right that I would run out of things to be thankful for it could not be sustained for the long haul.
As for being focused on my WW and her reactions, you are correct and I still fight that issue. I think I am making baby steps at independence. For example, refusing to live in an open marriage is one, refusing to hand over the kids to her (that she wanted) is another, and generally just picking myself up from the floor is another. Hiring a lawyer to protect myself and my children is probably the strongest effort I have made to focus on what is best for ME.
Over the years, I have lost sight of me and from what I have read on these boards that is not uncommon. It is critical that I find ME again. I'm sure I am still there underneath all of this crud. I think it is high time that I rediscover myself and what makes ME happy.
Thank you for posting the Coach and Greek story. I loved it and will refer to it often.
Best - HEAVY
So I have had two friends ask me why they haven't seen us at church lately. I respond diferently now. I said both times:
"Oh, we split up in September". That's it. I don't go into the details or play the victim card like I used to. Just a short and simple, "we split up".
That is way different than how I used to respond and it has taken me a lot of time to accept it and respond that way. I didn't choose it, I didn't want it, but it's over.
I am not a victim but a survivor is how I am framing it now. That is coming from a more postive place I think.
I am putting that in my gratitutde journal that I have grown to accept my new reality more.
By work on what stings I mean what things has W brought up that sting? What things have people here brought up to you that you need to work on? Usually the things that sting when you hear them (or read them) hold some truth.
Following some suggestions, I have updated my gratitutde journal to include every day things, took the dog for a walk and it made me smile. Simple things can affect PMA I have learned. I had forgotten about the little things in life. So focused on getting on with it, not enjoying the moment. I am doing a better job of that.
My kids come back on Friday and I am so excited. I spent a lot of time gettig Easter Baskets ready. My s9 told me he believes in the Easter Bunny and how he must use teleportation in order to get to everyone's house. I laughed. I hope he keeps his childlike qualities as long as possible.
I made plans for an Easter egg hunt and for brunch with friends. That sounds like a good way to spend the day and counts as a GAL activity (I hope). I have outfits ready
Saturday, I don't have any plans except to ride bikes along our bike trail. I have pumped up everyone's tires, readjusted the training wheels so they don't wobble. We are ready to go.
I find that being outside makes me the happiest and I feel close to God when I in nature. I am lucky to live in California.
Thanks for listening fellow DB's
Thanks for the clarification - I get what you mean now.
For example - She has old me that I am wooden. Yes, I will admist to being an introvert. I am now trying to be authentc with my emotions and try to live more in the momement. For example, picking flowers with my little girl when walking makes her laugh and makes me smile. I am trying to do that more. Taking the dog for an extra lap around the block makes her so happy so I am doing that. Bottom line, I am trying to be more joyful myself and to bring joy to others.
I colead my D6's Daisy troop. This means I get to wrangle about 30 girls every other week and make projects like paper flowers, cardboard name tags, seat cushions, projects basically. I would have not done that before. When I do the projects, I really let myself get into them which is fun for me and fun for the girls. I also bring my guitar and sing the girl scout theme which is a lot of fun.
Anyway I can inject more fun into my life I am doing it. I love to kayack and do that with my kids. It will be more challenging now that I am a solo parent but I think I can do it. Now that the spring is here, there should be plenty of opportunities to do it. I also want to learn to improve my sailing skills. I think my kids would benefit from that as well.
My Wife said I was not emotionally available to her. This hurts as I thought we shared our thoughts. I couldn't wait to tell her what I did during the day and was always excited to hear about her day. I told her this ofen. We talked and texted at least 10 times a day. I was always home every night, and she was too for the most part until she met the AP. All of a sudden she started drinking.
She said she was only allowed to do certain things that were family oriented which to me mean controlling. She volunteered at church, met with friends afterwork for happy hour went back home whenever she wanted to visit family and we just got back from Hawaii. She wanted me to teach Sunday school with her, I did it, gladly, payed guitar for the kids. She said I was not authentic in my reason to be there. She said it was like I was checking off some list to prove that I had done it but my heart wasnt in it. It seems like I was damned if I did or did not do it.
She complained I did not listen to her which is true. She was critical about how I loaded the dishwasher, brought home the wrong brand of toothpaste, things of that nature. That would make me mad and we would argue. I bought us a new van which she hated. I told her I would sell it or she could take it back to the dealer and trade it in. She never did until she left. The first thing she did was trade in the van.
It feels like I "forced her" into being someone she did not want to be. My vision was not her vision. I asked if she wanted to be a stay at home mom and said no, I asked if she wanted a bigger house and she said no.
Looking back I shoud have been more decisive with what we were doing. Should have I refused to do things she wanted to do and just gone with what I wanted to do. I honestly thought that was what families did. We did things together regardless of if we were really into them. I did them because I knew it brought my family joy.
So my take away is maybe I should have asked them what they wanted to do. What kind of car would my wife want to drive, she always said it was on my terms. That hurt becuase we always talked about what we wanted and made decisions together, we chose our house together, we choose the school our kids attend, we were a team, until the AP partner came onto the scence talking about open marriage and how liberating it can be.
There were many things I could have done better, listened more, been more attentive, been more decisive about what brought ME joy.
Is that the lesson I should have learned? After she left she told me that it was just an exit affair and that the marriage just wasn't as good for her as it was for me. She told me she shouldd have left me years ago, regeted having our second child. She told me she views us as her long term obligations. She said the only thing I can do now is watch her walk away which she did.
So, I feel at a loss other than she wants another life now, one without me, one with freedom to experiece new things and new ideas.
OK - I can't stop her leaving and making choices of her choosing. I can howeve build mself up and open myself up to joy more for whatever comes eiher with her or without. And while it has taken me 6 months to do so, I am geting better at it.
Just attended an all day work conference and someone in the enemy camp was there. So akward. This person is an affair cheerleader and thinks I am the creepy stalker. She actively encourages my WAW and her AP.
I avoided her most of the conference but ran into her I the bathroom. I smiled and said hello and kept walking.
Awful feeling!
Good for you for taking the high road. I often think that I would love to run into OM and punch him right in the mouth.
In reality, I would probably shake his hand and tell him to take care of my wife, and never forget how lucky he is to have her, Unlike me.
Just attended an all day work conference and someone in the enemy camp was there. So akward. This person is an affair cheerleader and thinks I am the creepy stalker. She actively encourages my WAW and her AP.
I avoided her most of the conference but ran into her I the bathroom. I smiled and said hello and kept walking.
Awful feeling!
There fixed it^^ for you.
There's nothing to feel awful about here. You have done nothing wrong. Until they've walked in your shoes, they don't know swat!
Thanks Wonka
GAL ALERT
meeting a new friend at a restaurant for a drink before I head home. I have no expectations, just happy to have a friend to share a drink with.
I get my kids tomorrow! So excited!!
Well done on the GAL front, Heavy. I am sure you are super excited to see your kiddos.
Kids coming back day early (today). I will see them tomorrow with WAW and have her sign off on tax papers.
Here is her email from today:
The hotel was a dump. Smelled terrible and to quote your mom "there's no way I'm letting the babies stay there!" After a break we're back on the road. Should arrive around 8:30 tonight.
Just wanted you to know.
What do you suggest as a reply? She made note of my Mom which she never does.
By tomorrow, she will have read her letters from my lawyer in her mailbox.
What should I say to the ineviable spew tomorrow?
"You made the choice to divorce and I am protecting myself and our kids by the hiring of a lawyer, let the lawyer know if you have any other questions."
That sounds harsh.
Any suggestions on how best to word this potentially akward encounter? As you may know, I took mediation off the table and hired a lawyer. This is too serious for DIY stuff.
Your WW will automatically assume that you're doing this against her, rather than for you. It's human nature and it's called ego: everything is always about us. My take, and I'm not 100% it's DB, is that you need to be calm and clear, and even loving, while telling her that this is simply because you want this to proceed smoothly. You've noticed that you had communication problems regarding the D, so it seemed best to you to transfer these things to a third party, and keep the communications between the two of you to the kids. It should work best for everyone involved.
See: it's not about tricks or phrasing. It's about showing her your good side. I had a moment like this early in my sitch where my WW was upset at a communication I had with her friend. She assumed I wanted to harm their relationship. I had no such intention (it was a misunderstanding), so I presented her the facts (what I had actually written rather than what her friend told her) and then told her: "You've got to trust me that I'm not trying to harm you." and that calmed her down. I'm not even sure it's a good example or that it got me closer to R, but it did put a lot of goodwill in our communications.
Today I have to meet up and swap kids.
My WAW will have read the lawyer leters as they have been in her mailbox.
When she brings the subject up, why did you take mediaion off the table, why did you ge a lawyer, etc... can I please get a couple of scripts to use?
Heavy,
Your W's email did not really require a response.
As for the kiddo switcheroo, here's a suggestion:
"I am sorry that you are upset by this and I do understand it. It seems to make sense to have a professional to handle complex issues that comes with a separation. I appreciate the fact that we've been respectful and cordial when it comes to the children's schedule/activities. I am sure you agree that it's where our focus should be at the moment."
If W gets angrier, and pushes:
"I am sorry that you are angry about this. I prefer that any legal issues/concerns be communicated directly with the lawyer. I am not going to discuss or debate this with you."
Good luck!
Remember....
Be light, breezy, and don't forget to smile....
You got this.
Oh and I want to add that you tell W that you need to leave. Borrowing this from GG:
"Oh look is that the time I have somewhere to be, I'm already late."
Then kiss, hug the kiddos and turn to leave. Do not look back at W.
^^ x2
Short sweet and to the point, just as Wonka said ... and like he suggested YOU end the convo and leave. DB to a T.
Heavy .. just caught up on your sitch, the journal thing struck me. I recall when I first got here, we all start realizing things over the course of this journey that we have been placed upon against our will. Seems you are starting to realize that there is some mirror work to do on yourself, which is very good and its important for YOU. I think it was AJ that gave me some homework, I did not see it at the time .. but now looking back it was pivotal in my progression, and I think it would help you out as well so I feel the urge to pass it on. Along with your journal ... which I think is great, make a list about yourself. Things that you find are good qualities. I think he had me do 25 or 50 ... I remember writing down like 5 and thinking .. that's it, but I kept going ... small positive qualities about yourself, great eyes, fabulous hair, good natured person ... etc. Do this list and place it somewhere you can see it .. add to it over the next week ... look at it and re-read it .. alter change and add to it along the way ... it seems so simple but helps start to rebuild 'us' after is seems all is left is lost.
Why is it important to end the conversation first and to not look back?
Does this imply that one is not conflicted about the separation? Does it imply a visual No Contact rule.
Clarification would help.
Just have to chime in for a second, Heavy, and not to add anything relevant here.
I smiled when I read Cali Guy's post. Then I got to the positive qualities and got to "great hair" and bust out laughing. Men and women aren't all that different, are they?
Sometimes, you just gotta admit when you have it going on.
And Heavy, you know I clapped at Wonka's suggestions. Address what needs to be addressed and keep moving.
Happy Easter!
Betsey
I can't speak for Wonka's intent, but I'll share my read on it.
Validate feelings by acknowledging them without jumping in the pool. Keep it breezy to avoid entering the tar pit. (You know what happened to the fossils at Brea...)
Does it imply a visual No Contact rule.
No. It implies that you have to dissect her comments and have a rebuttal when one isn't necessary. Not everything she said requires a response from you.
I found that most often, when my XH contacted me about things, it was to let me know. Not an invitation to have a dialogue. Eventually, I got this down. Instead of asking questions, dissecting stuff, I'd validate (if needed) and just say, "thanks for letting me know."
Make sense?
Makes sense - validate - yes I definitely over analyze things.
Why is it important to end the conversation first and to not look back?
Does this imply that one is not conflicted about the separation? Does it imply a visual No Contact rule.
Clarification would help.
I can only speak for me ... like you I did not understand it nor the reason behind it till I started doing it often. I feel like with this BD, the WAS seems to have all the power, making us feel hopeless at times. I found when I ended conversations, on the phone or in person, I was in control of the situation... its empowering and flips the table some, stops making you feel like you are the dog at the table waiting for the scraps to come your way. Make sense?
LOL @ Underdog ... I was not referring to my hair .. although now that I think about it .. I sill have a full head, mind you its a touch more grey now that it was pre-BD but still all there ... so heck .. why not .. I will put that one down!
Makes more sense now - thanks for the explanation.
I can do this.
Heavy,
I just sent legal papers as well. We will have to keep each other apprised. It's kind of funny that after all of her disrespectful actions, she is still adamant that we don't get lawyers involved. She is hoping that I feel guilty or emotional, and give in to her unfair demands.
She is going to be royally pissed when she gets letter and papers. I'm sure she will say she refuses to be friends. Hey, news flash, friends don't cheat and lie in friends. You already terminated your friendship with your actions.
CaliGuy - Hey, my color is achieved with the help of a chemist, so don't feel bad about the grey!
She is hoping that I feel guilty or emotional, and give in to her unfair demands.
Yes, they all seem to share that in common. But they forget that some of us out here are decent negotiators when it comes down to dissolving the business aspect of a marriage. That's why lawyers are necessary. I didn't need one, because I'm a good negotiator. I knew what I wanted and we used a mediator. But we're the exception rather than the rule.
Good luck, and enjoy your kids this weekend.
Kramer -
Yep - I feel the same.
Weird thing - I just chatted briefly about drop off time with kids at work, she wanted to bring them to our house, I declilned and asked her to just drop them off at my work.
No reaction whatsoever about lawyer leetter (s).
Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. I guess the lesson is not to be concerned as I don't have any control.
All I can say is that I am acting with honor,dignity,courage and no expectations.
So I met with the wife and we exchanged the kiddos.
AFter hugging and kissing the kids and loading their gear into my car, I nodded a hello to her.
I said here is the tax paperwork, for her to sign. After much pantomime, she signed. She asked a question about something and I said I don't know. She then said I asked you Wednesday? I said, I still don't know. She said "Why didn't you call the accountant". I said it is Good Friday and most places are closed.
She then asked about s9 school which I said I am not sure. She said "What does that mean?". I said I really don't know, but it has something to do with points.
She then put the tax papers in the driver's seat of her car like she was going to drive away with them. I opened up the car door and grabbed them out which made us both laugh. I walked over to get in my car and she said "Run away,see you only respond when I threaten you."
That's just sad. Any other way I could have handled better?
Maybe I should not have grabbed the tax papers out of her car, but jeez they are due next week! That interaction was not honorable or dignified.
Another thing I wanted to point out.
We cant seem to look at each other in the eyes. It is bizarre but when I try to look at her, her ears are darting aroud and she wont focus on me. She can talk to me, about me, around me just not look at me.
What on earth is that about?
It takes time, but I think you have to stop looking in the mirror of your WAS. Mind reading about her eye contact is a dead end road. Worrying about how she felt about your wording of a few sentences. We all have been there. But ultimately that will drive you crazy.
Do YOU feel ok with who you were today? Did your behavior come from you being the person you wanted to be? If so I wouldn't worry about it. This will be tested because as you detach more and more she'll react more and more extremely (positively and negatively) to try to maintain your attachment. Just take all of her reactions with a grain of salt, as she's not in a stable place. Get stable yourself and trust yourself, the vets, your DB coach, and neutral/qualified advisers.
Good point Zues
Yes, I feel good about how I handled myself.
I told her in advance I would have the tax papers and that she would need to sign to which she agreed.
I didn't react or respond when she made disparaging remarks about me "running away" and her "threats". I did not respond or react, I just drove away with the children and didn't look back.
Heavy,
I think you did good with the kiddo switcheroo and keeping your wits about you.
She then put the tax papers in the driver's seat of her car like she was going to drive away with them. I opened up the car door and grabbed them out which made us both laugh. I walked over to get in my car and she said "Run away,see you only respond when I threaten you."
W is off her rocker with that comment which was designed to push your buttons and guilt you. Shame on her.
You did a superb job in not reacting to her dig at all. Well done.
A dilemma:
I have found out that ww is on the rocks with OW. They only speak on the phone about one per week. I have not done anything with this informatin, just filed it away. It has been 6 months. No expectations.
This weekend's GAL:
Today is easter egg decorations with D6, Dinner with friends at kids at 5 and get ready for church tomorrow.
Tomorrow: Church, Easter egg hunt, brunch with friends and the Easter Bunny. Get ready for school on Monday.
That is all.
Hi Heavy D - interesting! What I would say is that my H's R with OW has been pretty rocky from the start. They were together for 6 'blissful' weeks. Then they split up, then back again, then split, then back, then rocky. Now I think split, but not sure...
But, even if things are rocky, if neither of them is in a 'good' place, there can be toxic cycling going on for some time between them.
And even if things don't work out with OW, the WS may just move on to dating as my H has. The thing is, they think OP is 'the answer' - but things don't work out. So - where's the cheese now? Maybe it is with OW - try again. No. Maybe another OP? Give that a try. No. And so on.
A lot else may need to happen before introspection and perhaps a different realisation. If things don't work out with OW, this is where we often see that she truly is just a symptom, because the lack of her doesn't lead to a return to the M.
I'm not trying to pour cold water at all. If things have soured with OW, that's a step along the journey, which is good of course.
Sounds like you'll be having the full Easter experience tomorrow.....enjoy!!
Hi Toots
I agree that whatever happens with the OW is just a step in the process. That does not determine anything one way or another for me. We are still in the D process.
I really don't know if this situation is because of the OW or if the OW is a symptom of a larger issue or MLC or what. I have given up trying to figure it all out and don't want to give it any more headspace. It's just not healthy for me. And it's her issue, not mine.
In my dreams, she will "wake up" and realize what she has done and beg to come home and our family will be reunited. In the real world, this is not going to happen, I know that. A girl can dream through....right??
I am still in NC most of the time, unless it's about kids. As much as I want to, I don't call, text, am off facebook, etc... That has been really really hard for me as she was my best friend, wife and partner, for 19 years.
If my mind wanders, I still long for her and only wish I had a reset button. So, the key for me is to not let my mind wander, I try try try to stay busy.
In addition to all of the Easter stuff going on, my kids and I played tennis today! That was super fun, we didn't get many balls over the net but that's not the point.
As I am sure everyone know, I hate every stinking second of this and the D process. I am doing what I have to do for protection even though my heart tells me it's the wrong thing to do.
Fallout continues along economic lines, and we will see how the L thing works out.
Thanks for responding Toots. I really appreciate it.
Now back to Easter eggs!!!
Hello HeavyD,
It sounds like you handled your recent run in really well.
To top it off it sounds like you were able to come away from the interaction with your PMA intact as well!
Thanks for the kind words. Where had my we gone? She had obviously been replaced by a pod person!!
Going through the motions today - Happy Easter indeed.
The sermon of death, resurrection, new life, so on point to hear and internalize.
I will be strong for my kids and for myself, I will go through all the right motions, but inside I am a shell.
All I want to do is crawl into a hole and pull the covers over my head. Unfortnately, I can't even do that. Too many responsibilities.
So many chit sandwichs I have to choke down today. I am sorry to be in such a negative mood, but the truth is the truth.
My IC and I are working on my internatlizing the negative aspects of the world. I have always done that, I need to get over it. I will work on my gratitude journal.
I know I have much to focus on that is joyful. Now if I could only just "believe it" and own it.
Happy Easter everyone.
One more thing I wanted to get off my chest
For years, I have always talked about going to Zion national park with the kids and ww. I was always the planner, I got all the brochures, plotted out the route, figured out where we could stay etc...
So over Spring Break when my WW had the kids, guess where they went? Yep. Why was the necessary to do when I wasn't there? That was my dream - and now she stole that too. Of course she had a friend to go with her to make the trip easier, but why not me? Once again, I feel robbed.
So now I find out that my WW is flying out to visit her AP for My 5 and 6th. Nice.
This makes the umpeenth time she flies out and stays at an expensive place. So there goes my theory that they are on the rocks. Obviously not, now how to process it. Guess I just have to not think about it.
Hard to do, but there it is.
I noticed today that my ring fingers had a seemingly permanent indentation from wearing it for 19 years. I wonder when that will ever go away. Maybe it is a metaphor for my feelings. When the indientation goes away, maybe I will finally be over for me emotionally. Something to think about.
I noticed today that my ring fingers had a seemingly permanent indentation from wearing it for 19 years. I wonder when that will ever go away. Maybe it is a metaphor for my feelings. When the indientation goes away, maybe I will finally be over for me emotionally. Something to think about.
Ok. I just have to comment on this. My finger has the same indentation. Other than cleaning it, I never took it off until just recently. I consider it a badge of honor.
Interestingly, she stopped wearing hers 9 months ago, citing finger swelling and germs at work (she is a nurse).
Yeah - typical story.
I never took mine off. Once when my WW "lost" her rings around the house, I was frantic trying to find them for her. I looked for days and finally found them. She didn't even look for them, could not have cared less. That should have been a red flag for me then but I was too dumb to notice it.
Have you taken your ring off? If so, I am very sorry.
I too am in the medical profession and work at a large academic hospital in LA.
Happy easter Heavy D. Im right there with you. Although I opted to NOT go to church. Being around happy families doing happy family stuff just was too much for me to even witness. Good on you for having the courage and fortitude to even go.
Have a good one.
I've had mine off since January. Still have indentations. I thought about leaving it on, but didn't want to seem pathetic.
I take mine off and on. I can't wear mine at work due to the job. But, most of the time when Im not at work I have mine one. When I do keep mine on, I feel to me, its sort of a bastion of hope. That somehow, someway, it shows that Im not done yet.
Thanks - yeah - doing it for the kids. They don't deserve to be left out of Easter just because of the situation. I know that we are doing the right thing and my ww is lost physically spiritually and methaphorocally.
Get your courage up and get out of the house. It's a beautiful Spring Day and the birds are singing to you.
Pretty good day with kiddos.
We threw the football in the yard, hard ice cream at the parlor, had brunch with friends and church and easter eggs. All in all a good day.
Then on my answer machine a message to my kids from you know who. We had discussed and agreed to not calling during the weeks that each of us had the kids. The kids could of course can call or text.
I did not call back.
Well today is 6 months when my WW moved out. 6 long moths, many tears and many emotions later.
Due to ths situation, we are not friendly, do not talk, share kids only when we don't have to see each other, keep the interaction to a minimum, etc...
For ma, I am meeting new friends, have made a couple, have hosted several sleep overs at my house, hired an attorney, work out, have read many support books on this subject such as DB, DR, and ... I have gotten an IC and see them weekly, and a shrink and now belong to a weekly divorce support group. My question is when does all of this become too much. It feels like my life has been taken over by this divorce and I am starting to resent it. We talked about the new normal in my last IC meeting and while that was hard to hear, I accept it.
Still get bad pangs of longing but not as frequently now, it's usually in the mornings. I wish my WW would just leave and move to the other city when the AP is and just get out of my hair. My s9 now tells me that it's OK to lie and that one person just can't satisfy all the needs of another. That really hurt and I sat him down and said that we are not the kind of people who lie, cheat or steal, period. I also said that is what marriage is for one person. If you don't believe that don't get married. I wonder where he is getting these ideas from? Hmmm...
Jeez.
I think the worst part about all of this is when I got my Dear Jane letter. She said she missed our family life, family time spent with the kids, but not me and not our relationship. She hopes we can be friends and do things as a family "like we used to". She just can't "not love the other person".
I just don't have that in me to do. I know that may sound selfish on my part, but I am still in such pain that I can't be anywhere near her. Maybe in time I can ovecome this, but for now, no.
That about sums it up.
I welcome folks to chime in - Am I being as asshat by refusing to play nicely?
Heavy,
It seems that many LBSes go through cycles of grief, anger, sadness, and resentment. Perfectly understandable.
Am I being as asshat by refusing to play nicely?
How does that question square up with your core principles?
How does that make you feel?
Hi Wonka
It makes me feel sad.
I am sad for the kids, sad for my broken family, sad that she has chosen this path for us and it causes me great pain to be around her knowing how she lies to me and our children about what she is doing.
So, all in all it just feels bad and that I am being manipulated ...again.
My core priciples are:
honesty
loyalty
integrity
compassion
Where does that leave me? I think it leaves me feeling OK about my decision about not wanting to play happy family, as much as that blows.
It also tells me I am still not detached.
My core priciples are:
honesty
loyalty
integrity
compassion
Where does that leave me? I think it leaves me feeling OK about my decision about not wanting to play happy family, as much as that blows.
One can continue standing with these princples without pretending to play "happy" families. Does not mean you have to act like an ass...just polite and cordial. Not best buds. See?
It can be done.
I see what you are saying, but this will take me a long time to get there. I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know how long it will take me to get there. Didn't it take you 10 years?
For example, we have tried going to the movies as a family. It is very akward, she keeps a death grip on her phone, and will text on it. Plus does it not confuse the kids when they see us all together?
It's just such as mess Wonka and it makes me feel so terrible when I see her. Every interaction with her is filled with either pot shots or strife or just negativity. My kids are so confused, I am still very upset and raw.
So, no it does not feel honest, loyal or acting with integrity on my part or hers either. I think of her as someone who has an illness, so that does jive with the compassion part.
The last time we went to eat together, she again threatened to take the children away from me becuase she is a "better" mother" baloney. It was just too much to take. I can't do it.
It also tells me I am still not detached.
It really is the hardest thing to do.
It takes TIME
And sometimes it can be compared to peeling an onion,
it has lots of layers.
So keep peeling them off.
I'm not sure why you should be expected to take her pot shots or rude comments. I agree with trying to do what's best for the family and children, and to be the bigger person, but it doesn't sound like she is willing to do that. That seems toxic and counterproductive to me.
Lord knows I am too new to this to give expert advice, but would it be appropriate to pull her aside and have a respectful one on one conversation with her, letting her know that you both need to be respectful to each other in front of your children?
It's amazing how much our spouses change during this process, isn't it?
Heavy,
Please keep in mind that from the very beginning, I strived to keep my interactions with Ms. Wonka respectful, cordial, and polite. I've accomplished it with a great deal of biting my tongue.
I see what you are saying, but this will take me a long time to get there. I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know how long it will take me to get there. Didn't it take you 10 years?
I think you might have confused keeping things respectful with forgiveness. Yep, it's taken me under 10 years to forgive her. However, it took 10 years for Ms. Wonka and I to open up a bit more. It is all in my thread over in the Surviving D forum.
For example, we have tried going to the movies as a family. It is very akward, she keeps a death grip on her phone, and will text on it. Plus does it not confuse the kids when they see us all together?
This is playing "happy" families and you do need to do this Going to the movies...not necessary at all. Only do this type of gathering for special occasions such as the kids' birthdays.
Every interaction with her is filled with either pot shots or strife or just negativity.
At some point, you'll decide to confront those digs and respectfully ask W to stop for they are very rude and disrespectful. You will not be treated in that manner by anyone.
So, no it does not feel honest, loyal or acting with integrity on my part or hers either. I think of her as someone who has an illness, so that does jive with the compassion part.
Just because your W is misbehaving, doesn't neccessarily mean that you ahve to do the same. Stay on the high road. It'll get you far.
The last time we went to eat together, she again threatened to take the children away from me becuase she is a "better" mother" baloney. It was just too much to take. I can't do it.
If it were directed to me, you'd bet your sweet ass that I'd look at her in the eye and say "Really?"
Your children are the most important things in your life. You may or may not have a future with your W, but you will always have a R with your children. Show them what a good role model does. We all know it is hard but if your W at the very minimum would like to do things for the sake of your children then, if it was me, I would be willing to try and at least be cordial in that situation to show the children your inner strength.
I am in no way saying to be soft, be a doormat, or put up with rude behaviour here. It would seem you would have to set out some boundaries - maybe no phone usage to OM in front of the children, clearly designated activities with a start and end etc. It does sound like your W is filled with anger. I think setting boundaries and taking appropriate action (such as leaving mid way through an activity should she cross a boundary) when necessary would be a good way to go. You may find your W begins to show you some more respect, and this could go a long way to helping your children have some 'family' time together.
Every interaction with her is filled with either pot shots or strife or just negativity.
At some point, you'll decide to confront those digs and respectfully ask W to stop for they are very rude and disrespectful. You will not be treated in that manner by anyone.
So, no it does not feel honest, loyal or acting with integrity on my part or hers either. I think of her as someone who has an illness, so that does jive with the compassion part.
Just because your W is misbehaving, doesn't neccessarily mean that you ahve to do the same. Stay on the high road. It'll get you far.
The last time we went to eat together, she again threatened to take the children away from me becuase she is a "better" mother" baloney. It was just too much to take. I can't do it.
If it were directed to me, you'd bet your sweet ass that I'd look at her in the eye and say "Really?"
Would this be a good place to set some boundaries?
I'm trying to figure out the whole boundaries thing myself, but it seems to me (in my naiveté) that if your W is being rude or threatening then some well placed boundaries might help.
Oops, lol Alpha posted while I was still typing. XD
Dear Alpha
That is a good one. My WW respecting boundries. I remember when we were on a family trip to DC and we invited her Mom along for the fun. My WW and her got into a huge two day long argument that culminated with the MIL leaving on on the tour bus alone, riding around all day and then leavig early on the flight. It was awful to see the two of them go at each other. The kids and I just shut each other off in the bedroom and watched TV.
Now I see so much of that interplay directed at me. You know the old saying, look at how your spouse treats your mom becuase that's how they are going to treat you. So true.
So, for setting boundries, I will try but so far every effort has been a FAIL. She is very entitled and my therapist says she is emotionally immature.
I will try.
Last night I bought a trampoline for the backyard. I figured it would be great exercise and FUN for the kids and myself. We could just jump away our blues!
The trampoline has a good safety net and zips up so no one call fall out and has paddig around the side so no feet sleep through the springs section.
Kids were jumping and of course my S9 does a cannonball and knocks his knee into his nose Of course it starts to bleed, I scoop him up, tilt his headback, apply pressure, get the ice pack and do all the things a good Mom would do. The bleeding stopped, he wanted to drink lemondade 5 minutes later and was watching his movies ten minutes later. He then wanted to go backon the trampoline for more jumping.
I am proud of the way I handled myself and my son. I could do it on my own. I did not freak out, I did not call my WW, I just did what I had to do, and you know what, it was OK.
I can counting that as a baby step to independance and more confidence.
My S9 is back at school today, his nose looks fine, and is a little sore. I will keep an eye on it if it swells or looks broken.
That is all.
Great work heavy!!! Good idea with the trampoline.
it is a lot of fun, injuries with the kids will happen, my S10 can barely walk without falling down some days.
So it's my week with my lovely kids.
I pick them up from school, we have supper, homework, bathtime, and get ready for the next day. Nothing earth shattering, just the usual life of a "single mom".
My WW calls every night now, usually 2-3 times per evening. I usually let it go to voice mail. Last night she called 4 times to talk to kids and ask them questions about their day etc...
After the 4th call, I picked up and she said "May I talk to the kids?" I gave the phone to the each of the children and say "Momma is on the phone" and they talked briefly. After they were finished I hung up. We don't talk at all. It is of course akward to say the least. Maybe I should just let the kids answer the phone even though when it rings, they act oblivious and make no attempt to answer it.
Question to the forum:
Should I use these phone calls to talk more to her, ask her about her day, what's going on, how she is doing etc... Am I missing a opportunity to reconnect with her?
As she is deeply entrenched with AP and we are actively in the D process, I am unsure how to interact. She never asks any questions or me. Should I ask her any? I just don't want to miss any opportunity to dialog with her to build and possible bridges.
Thoughts?
Should I use these phone calls to talk more to her, ask her about her day, what's going on, how she is doing etc... Am I missing a opportunity to reconnect with her?
LOL, you have the 2 extremes down pat, Heavy. Let's swing that pendulum to somewhere in the middle, okay?
I'd say, go ahead and talk to her, but instead thank her for putting the kids as a priority and let her know that they appreciate it. Keep it short and end the call like you would if you were at work.
Is this a house phone or your cell phone?
If it's the house phone, I'd tell the kids, whoever is closest to the phone when it rings go ahead and answer it. Use it as a teaching opportunity to teach phone etiquette as well as the importance of taking messages. If it's your mobile, it's your responsibility to answer it unless you are tied up and you specifically give your kids permission to pick it up. Then YOU use the opportunity to practice talking about things that aren't going to lead you to backsliding or bad places.
I think this would be a good place to start building bridges or at least maintaining them.
This is the house phone. She calls the house phone because she things we are home in the evening, which we usually are. Last night however, we were in the back yard.
Can I tell you how hard it is to "talk" with her? Almost every interaction is with her negative and she berates me about something and also the fact that I am just so hurt and grieving by her actions of her dismissal of me and our marriage and family.
I guess it's a combination of all three. It feels like we are at a log jam,
1). I can't get over her ongoing betrayal
2). She can't or won't understand my upset reaction
3). She refuses to stop seeing her AP and has left "us/"me" for the AP.
So that leaves a lot of middle ground. It feels so forced to say "so how was your day?"
Maybe I will try to break it down into smaller chunks.
Me - "Hello"
Her - "Can I speak to the kids?"
Me - "Sure, hold on while I get them, bye"
Maybe we can build up something from there.
Agree with minimal interaction only at this point. She is disrespectful and selfish, and doesn't deserve your concern at this point. Not to say that you don't care about her. I know you do, but she has to earn your conversation.
And what's with calling 3-4 times per night? That seems controlling to me. She has every right to speak with the kids, but not by disrupting your home routine. Set up some ground rules about time of communication and stand firm.
Thanks Kramer
She will just keep calling until she gets to talk to them. Last night it was 4 times. On the 4th ring, I did pick up because i was actually in the house!
What are your decisions about your paperwork? Are you moving forward or are you stalling out? Have you hired an attorney yet? I think your WW does not want an attorney - that in an of itself is a big Red Flag. That is emotion talking not logic.
Good luck.
Heavy
I hired attorney and they sent my response yesterday. She should get it today or tomorrow, and will go ballistic. I gave her the opportunity to work with me, but told her I would not negotiate on 50/50. She wants me to take all the debt and not touch her retirement. Sorry, but I'm not agreeing with that, especially after your selfish actions.
Honestly, knowing her as j do, I think she is totally acting on emotion and feels like she must finish what she stRted. She has to prove to herself and others that she can stand on her own without me. Fair enough...I will grant your wish. I'm sure she also wants to show OP that she is doing everything in her power to get rid of me and be 100% dedicated to him. I suspect that he is gun shy and won't be able to handle her drama. Hope so anyway.
Feeling pretty good about the week so far with just me and kids:
I have:
1. Purchased a trampoline with netting for family use and exercise and just plain fun.
2. Scheduled a trip to Disney for me and kids plus friend and her kid. I organized where we will stay.
3. I have worked with D6 in the yard, we are trying to convert some grass area to natural landscape. She like to be a big helper and it was fun for just the two of us. We have covered the grass in order to kill it. Our lawn guy does not like the idea (for obvious reasons).
4. Have managed to work on homework, keep laundry done, hired a cleaning lady for every 2 weeks to help me keep on top of it all.
5. Have not heard anything from you know who about l letters.
6. Staying focused at work, continuing to see my IC, Psychiatrist, and working out.
7. I am trying not to be a worry wart about everything. This is hard for me as this is natural tendency.
8. I have scheduled a medical procedure for next week and arranged a friend to drive me home. I am not telling you know who - none of her business.
9. I am organizing the house how I want - moving stuff around, tossing a lot, giving stuff to goodwill, etc...
10. Logging my journal daily and my gratitude journal as well.
I still miss my R and my old life and always hold out hope that something will change in my sitch. Regardless of the outcome of my R, I am gradually realizing I can do this and be OK. It still pops into my head every now and then, does she miss us? It feels good without all of the drama.
Thanks for all of the support DB board. I am feeling stronger which is a good thing.
Hey Heavy - that sounds like a great list and you have come a long way.
It is hard but you can do this!!
You are in my thoughts
Thank you U-turn for the support. I really appreciate it.
How are things going for you? I will check out your thread.
HeavyD,
I agree with u-turn! You are in my thoughts, too.
I feel like my WAW is trying to prove she can go thru with our D (she filed 5 months ago).
Please, please hang in there!
Bob
Thanks Bob
Yes, it feels like I am in an unwanted game of "chicken". I have made it clear where my desires are for our family. She has made it very clear what she wants and what is "best" for he.
I can't stop the D but I will not make it easy and just roll over either. I want her to feel the full force of the natural consequences of this action.
I have taken every action I can to protect myself and my children during this crisis. I do not know the outcome but I will fight for my family.
Good for you, Heavy. Be the best that you can be for you and your children. What will be, will be. That's a hard reality for all of us. Take it one day at a time and do the right thing.
Thanks Kramer
At least I have stopped being the doormat and letting WW run me down. That has stopped and my self respect has risen. That part at least feels good. I refuse to rise to her bait, resist her attempts to "push my buttons", do not react to her putdowns, and just don't get get involved in the drama. I have stopped doing that dance.
I will continue to keep my eye on the prize (intact family) but will also do what is right. I am teaching my children how to react in a crisis and also what makes a good person - not to lie, cheat or steal and what marriage is and isn't, among other things. I am not running anyone down, just reaffirming our values.
Any news on your front?
So again I have waves of feelings of regret and remorse that it has come to this. I have read and reread the posts by Starsky and other vets that "tough love" is the best chance I have.
So far, I am getting deeper into the adverserial process and interact on a very limited basis.
My fear is that the more I pursue legal action, the less chance I will ever have of reconcilliation.
OK - deep breath - follow the plan - trust the process
Heavy,
I like your lists...nice way to keep it in the forefront as you walk this part of the journey.
I wanted to comment about the "tough love" approach a bit more. This is taken in the early stages when the WAS is at the home with the OW/OM. In your case, your W had already moved out so the need for pulling out the "no OW/OM boundary" script is not necessary.
Since your W is already out of the house, you don't need to make this process adversarial at all. The choice is up to you. For your specific case, you really need to be consistent with being cordial, polite, and respectful in your interactions with W.
For instance, the phone convos with your kids, you can be polite and say: "Hi W...thank you for calling. Please hold on here while I corral the kids so you can talk to them."
After they are finished with the calls, you can say "I am so glad that the kids get the chance to talk with you on the phone. Have a good evening. Bye"
See...it shows her that you're not recoiling or acting like a wounded animal. Be the BIGGER person and show her that you're FINE...thank you!
Edit - Please Start a new thread
Wonka
Let me clarify - adveserial in the legal aspects. It feels like she is getting hit over the head with a club with the legal process. I am following my legal advice but jeez - it still feels harsh.
On one hand, I am protecting myself and kids but on the other hand she has frankly goofy attitudes about what she will and won't pay.
I have to remember though, she is the one who filed for D.
Thanks for the script for the telephone interactions. I can do that. What does showing her that I am the "bigger person" gain? What does that communicate to her? Thinking on your words makes me guess that it shows detachment and that I am not still hurt or wounded and am moving on. As you and I both know, this is not the case but I can fake it.
OK - I think I got it.
However, when we do meet to review documents or kid related stuff, she makes it a point to be rude, say something hurtful, remember the "Run away, that's all you can ever do, that's why I have to threaten you to respond" comment. I have learned to ignore it and just walk away but it's hard, I gotta tell you.
Heavy,
Wanted to put in a response here before you begin a new thread.
On one hand, I am protecting myself and kids but on the other hand it's like she is flailing with goofy attitudes about what she will and won't pay. My L looked at her items and said I have the advantage legally.
Listen to L...he/she is your biggest ally right now (other than moi and other DBers..eh).
Thanks for the script for the telephone interactions. I can do that. What does showing her that I am the "bigger person" gain? What does that communicate to her?
Do you want to be Eyeore or Tigger? It communicates to W that you are fine and dandy. Thank you very much. You're so busy enjoying your oyster that W doesn't register a blip on your radar. Life is one big buffet table and you're out there being busy partaking it.
However, when we do meet to review documents or kid related stuff, she makes it a point to be rude, say something hurtful, remember the "Run away, that's all you can ever do, that's why I have to threaten you to respond" comment. I have learned to ignore it and just walk away but it's hard, I gotta tell you.
How I handle digs or snarky comments from people is that I look up, look at them squarely right in their eyes, and arch my eyebrow. That usually stops people cold in their tracks. And they never dare to do it again with me. I don't have to say a single thing at all.
One look from me and they know I mean business.