Thank you, Wonka, for that inspiration.
Maybell XXXII The GOAL of this thread is to find my indifference.
Also a home for my children.
This will require the will of a warrior.
TOWANDA!!!!!
You go get 'em, Warrior!!
Maybell, you go this.
As for me, I'm indifferent to whether I find my indifference.
I DO have a dumb friend named Tom who shoots himself in the leg with his gun...
If I'm making ANY sense you have more growth to do
Keep charging!
Thank you for the levity, Wonka and MB! Towanda! (Wonka, do you know how hard that makes me laugh? One of my all time favorite movies. Ever.) But Maybell, I really don't picture you in the Kathy Bates role. Maybe Jessica Tandy. You have a whole lot more spunk and warrior in you. Kathy Bates needed to find her voice. Just sayin'.
Now I need to go back and read what you wrote in the other thread. It might take me awhile. D18 and I had aqua aerobics and I'm now freezing and shivering a little bit.
Towanda it is!
Maybell, I've been following your recent journey....good luck in your 'search for indifference!' - I love that goal...:-)
It's a worthy one.
I need to find tk with s17, he's just pushing the buttons.
I learned to judge in my home, and spent most of my adult life judging others to try to make me feel better about my faults. I judged myself just as harshly. It made for a very unhappy, fragile me.
I'm still getting working on it, everyday. It's doable, not easy but doable. I just had to decide to do it.
BTW, Betsey, yes, I would be nicer to the lady who accidentally let her shopping cart hit my car. I'd be very gracious, if she were apologetic. But if she did it on purpose because I drive a minivan rather than a sports car, then no, I'd speak out. To me, that is the difference.
I think I must have missed the story that you're responding to here but my question is, the end result is the same. You car, an inanimate object, was damaged.
Why is your emotional response different?
How would your response to either person change the situation for you?
Bug,
That grocery cart thing was just an example I used in a post to MB on her previous thread yesterday. It would probably make more sense to catch up there first. And yes, I did have that movie image in my head when I wrote it.
MB, I was having difficulty with my mouse thing on my laptop last night so I had to settle for posting on your old thread.
Hope you're having a better day today.
Hugs-
Betsey
Thanks!
LICE. The amount of work is endless. Three little heads and three little beds (plus mine) and vacuuming, etc.
Two upsides. One you'll scold me for.
S9 most likely got infested on Thursday/Friday. Spent the weekend with his dad. Slept, in fact, in STBX's bed. I did email STBX (we were having a conversation that included an apology from me and a request for prompter departures) but he didn't get it till this morning.
Giggle.
The other one is, there's no one to check my head but D12. So she and I got lots of good bonding time.
Bug, re: the cart thing... As we go through life we're all going to bump into one another and do damage from time to time. I'm happy to knowledge that and to be gracious to others. It's not about the car. It's about people being respectful of one another. If someone banged her cart into my car because she felt entitled to, yeah, I'd have strong words for her. If the cart got away from her because it's heavy or she dropped something, and she acknowledged that it was a bummer our paths intersected in that manner, I'd probably still hold her accountable but I'd think warm thoughts too.
falling over now. Thanks for checking in. More tomorrow. If you can stand it.
Ughhh....sorry about the lice!
My girls have soooo much hair, it took me over 6 months to finally get rid of it when they had it. Just when I thought it was done...boom more bugs. It was horrible, I was washing sheets every other day at least for that long, picking thru their hair with nit combs, chemicals and natural remedies and hair cuts...wouldn't let them on furniture!
Maybell - I feel for you - we had an lice infestation a couple of years ago that did not become apparent until pretty late in the game. Both girls and I had it and I didn't completely eradicate it from D7 for
four months. Still have a drawer full of various lice combs. Apparently 70 % of lice has become drug resistant so it's basically endemic now. Shudder.
Keeping my fingers crossed that you all sleep with clean, clear heads tonight
Bug,
That grocery cart thing was just an example I used in a post to MB on her previous thread yesterday. It would probably make more sense to catch up there first. And yes, I did have that movie image in my head when I wrote it.
MB, I was having difficulty with my mouse thing on my laptop last night so I had to settle for posting on your old thread.
Hope you're having a better day today.
Hugs-
Betsey
I think it's a great analogy for life. (I may not be reading it as you intended it but it works for me)
I can decide what I carry away from the situation.
If someone rams me purposefully, and I've tested my assumption about that, I can say "I'm angry, you damaged my car. How will you make this right?" Their ability, or inability, to be responsible can inform what kind of boundaries are necessary with that person in the future.
For the accidental bumping we should also respect ourselves and our feelings. "I understand this was an accident. I'm angry, you damaged my car. How will you make this right?"
Change car damage to any kind of damage (lie, cheat, etc), the result can be the same.
My niece recently went through the lice drill with her 3.
She had a lice eradication expert (eh, It's Phoenix) and her weapon of choice was olive oil. Asphyxiate the little buggers.
Having worked in an elementary school I've seen my share of lice. Everyone I know has used a company. No one wants to deal with it themselves. You have a lot of grit, MB.
D12 got lice in kindergarten on the west coast. I immediately called a service -- my boys were 3 and 1 and NO WAY was I hanging out at a "salon" to have it done. Because it was California it was all natural too, and I asked a TON of questions so I know what to do. But working full time now complicates things.
Grit has nothing to do with tackling this by myself. The area where I live doesn't support a lice eradication service so there isn't one. I'm on my own.
Grit by necessity, if you like.
I did use a proprietary blend of coconut and olive oils with rosemary and tea tree oils for the antibiotic qualities. CROSSING MY FINGERS it's enough.
Towanda!
Maybell's thread is in danger of becoming the lice thread
When I was driving home yesterday there was a commercial on the radio for lice removal franchising opportunities. Apparently, it's quite the growth area. Maybe I should look into it......
You're right, raliced, it would be a great opportunity. Many people don't have the time and space in their lives, let alone stomach, to do it.
In our area the method is to cover the head in really thick conditioner (t
Like Pantene), and then comb, comb, comb, comb with one of those special metal combs until every.single.bugger is out.
Comb, wipe on a white paper towel, repeat for an hour.
In our area the method is to cover the head in really thick conditioner (Like Pantene), and then comb, comb, comb, comb with one of those special metal combs until every.single.bugger is out.
Comb, wipe on a white paper towel, repeat for an hour.
That's what we did too. WW & both kids had 'em but I didn't. I guess I'm toxic.
This lice thing is very absorbing but really I was just belly-aching about the housework this problem has generated...
So I had a good meeting with my lawyer today and he told me to go ahead and move forward with my housing plans. So now I've got to prioritize the order in which I start dealing with all this stuff.
I think this is like all my other issues. It will all become clear what order things need to happen as I take each given step. But I admit I feel a bit overwhelmed at the moment.
I observe about myself that I tend to wait for direction before I take steps, and that was a big part of the security of being married to stbx. I'm very competent at doing but unless I have prior experience I'm hesitant to take the first step. Now I'm in a situation where I have to set the directions, not just execute, and it's pushing my comfort zone.
Interesting.
Isn't it interesting the tings we learn about ourselves on this ride. I've been journaling about some of my a-hason my thread.
Isn't it great when you do express a problem or need here that you get such a response. A reinforcement for being vulnerable and expressing need.
A whole tribe willing to support you.
lice is a nice problem to have compared to a failing marriage.
Yes, I count this forum as a huge blessing.
I'm reading a divorce memoir and I'm finding it really comforting to see a high level perspective of how it went for this woman. the jacket says that divorce is the ugliest word in English but that hers set her free. I'm growing so much through this. I'm glad to be getting something from it.
Sorry for the lapse - I've had the stomach flu this week.
Per chance is the author Debbie Ford?
Feel better very, very soon Betsey!! Stomach bug is worse than lice!!! (Laughing... iPhone has not yet failed to autocorrect "lice" to something else...)
Not Debbie Ford, Suzanne Finnamore. Who is NOT a role model on how to cope, but an intimate portrait of how it feels. Interesting to see 1) how very much more supportive her mother was than mine has been, and 2) how much more poorly I could have made decisions than I chose to.
Nora Ephron may be next.
MB,
Although having a sour stomach is icky and I'm just not in a good mood, I still think its short life is preferable to the fallout of lice mitigation! All that laundry, scrubbing, throwing out... it's a hideous proposition! I feel way worse for you. And the best part is that I stayed home and pretty much slept. Sleeping is definitely preferable to cleaning. It cured my ills, but it won't cure yours.
I'll have to check out Suzanne. BTW, I recommend Debbie. I wouldn't have recommended the Spiritual Divorce to you before now, but I think you would now find her message uplifting. Then go for the Secret of the Shadow. I think you in particular would find her exercises for that book insightful and helpful. In fact, Claire, if you're reading, this would be a great read for you as well. It's all about owning who you are, and addresses some of the FOO issues we bring forth into our current lives. Let's have a discussion on that book when you both read it, and it will give me the chance to go back and re-read it as well.
I love Nora too. There is nothing that funny doesn't help along.
I wouldn't have recommended the Spiritual Divorce to you before now, but I think you would now find her message uplifting. Then go for the Secret of the Shadow. I think you in particular would find her exercises for that book insightful and helpful. In fact, Claire, if you're reading, this would be a great read for you as well. It's all about owning who you are, and addresses some of the FOO issues we bring forth into our current lives. Let's have a discussion on that book when you both read it, and it will give me the chance to go back and re-read it as well.
Thank you for these. You're right, I wouldn't have been ready to tackle these before now (and in fact I checked out the Finnamore book from the library before I was really ready to read it) -- but I think I'm ready now. I'll get the Spiritual Divorce one tonight and get started on it.
I'm not sure how much less angry I am at STBX than I was, but I'm meeting him tomorrow afternoon to talk about selling the house. I need to get that done so I can start really pursuing the one I want (could it really be attainable?????) I'm going to try to keep my ultimate goals in mind when I'm near him. He already agreed to leave more promptly when he's dropping off the kids, which will help a ton.
Things with the kids are in a really good place at the moment. As a consequence for telling lies about their homework, both boys lost electronics this week, which makes it in effect for the whole family. Interestingly, we've all been MUCH more peaceful this week. MUCH more. We may be reserving electronics for just the weekends (like Saturday mornings). S7 has decided that he wants to be a chef so last night he helped me make dinner. It was the cutest thing ever. I had him mix an Asian peanut sauce from scratch from a recipe. He needed help but we had a great time together and he took it quite seriously.
We all sat down very nicely for dinner and said the blessing and I was just thinking "Wow, this is really nice," when S7 said, "Something feels different." I looked around at all of us and each kid and I were all smiling. And it
was different. We had a great meal. (I asked them each what they did at school to be kind and D12 said she had volunteered to be on the team of a girl nobody likes for being weird. I was really proud of her for that.)
S9, too, has decided that he wants to start cooking so he's taken to pan-searing his vegetarian sausage patties for breakfast every morning. He's terrifying in all other ways because he's so forgetful, but he takes the cooking of the breakfast very seriously and I love to see him standing there so confidently in front of the stove. He does a good job too, even though it's such a different task than what S7 liked to do.
This morning I mentioned again that the kids would be spending the evening with their dad and S9 observed that since he had promised them not to have grilled cheese sandwiches again for a while that they'd probably be eating out, because grilled cheese is all he ever makes. This isn't strictly true, but it made me sad for STBX that he's missing so much of what is fun about parenting these kids. Especially since his learning to cook at a young age is a big part of what he really enjoyed about his childhood and it was something we enjoyed doing together early in our marriage.
I wish he would find himself so he could share it with the kids. They revel in closeness. They are delightful to be around and interesting to discover. He could get so much fulfillment from them if he only realized how much there is to them.
Maybe it's just that things are starting to look like they might come together for me, but I do feel freer and happier again. I don't like that I had to go through this but I like starting to feel strong and confident and empowered. I am wondering how to help my children feel this way right out the gate -- not entitled, but supported enough that they can tackle anything with confidence. It would be so nice for them to start out life believing in themselves. But maybe that's a vain hope. Maybe we all have to go through the fire.
I'm looking forward to seeing what I learn from the Debbie Ford book. Betsey, I hope you're feeling better!
Hey, I also wanted to say -- I'm so glad I upgraded the washer & dryer last summer! I agonized over that purchase, but it was worth it. I can't imagine Operation DeLouse without them. And I just want to mention -- I very respectfully made that purchase with STBX's full knowledge and blessing and it cost SIGNIFICANTLY less than the stupid computer he sneak-purchased in January. So there.
Rock on sister! So glad you had a great evening with the kids. I love cooking with mine too!
So I had a glass and a half of wine and I'm feeling very cheerful. Kids are out with their dad and there is a very ridiculous Steven Seagal movie (with Tommy Lee Jones and Colm Meany!!) on TV. I feel like there is a funny, clever, pretty woman in this body who is fun to be around, caring, occasionally silly, reasonably smart, and set on a path that could become very interesting. I intend to make it last.
I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
Apologies to Old Dog, Mozza, Card, Zues, and any other few fellas who follow me. I'm sure you guys are the bomb. I'm just feeling sufficient at the moment.
MB, my D12 is into cooking. She planned and shopped for and cooked dinner the other day. I helped her and cleaned a lot. We had a great time. When she is with her dad, they eat out every meal, although he is actually a good cook. Kind of drives me crazy.
I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
Apologies to Old Dog, Mozza, Card, Zues, and any other few fellas who follow me. I'm sure you guys are the bomb. I'm just feeling sufficient at the moment.
You've DB'ed enough to know that this is very attractive!
I'm actually a bit threatened by it...but that's only because I need to feel more sufficient myself. I actually meant this as a joke at first, but I do think there's some truth to the fact that I doubt a woman that was ever self sufficient would ever want to tie with me. All I can see about myself sometimes is the baggage and problems I bring, Mr. Bond asked me what I could bring to a M and I couldn't really answer. If loyalty, love, companionship, and demonstration those values to the best of my ability doesn't compensate for the negatives I'm at a loss. So I DO have a ways to go, but that's ok. I've got the gift of time.
So thanks for thinking of us Maybell, and glad you're doing well tonight!
MB,
This was such a fabulous Towanda post, and the most serene one from you in quite awhile. I'm so glad for you! It sounds like a peaceful life. I'll now you nailed it when you are able to stop feeling bad about what your WAH is missing. Enjoy YOUR present with them. And their presence with you.
I am still laughing about the fish and bicycle comment. That's a keeper, and I might have to steal it for myself.
Hope there is less detergent in your life soon.
Betsey
Betsey, that's a Gloria Steinem quote!!
Have a wonderful Friday. :))
You should let that woman out more often.
When we get to the I Am Enough! realization, it can never be taken away. We might occasionally stumble but we'll strive to get back to that place, that freedom.
TOWANDA!!!
Now let's focus on getting to the indifference stage, baby.
We're meeting this afternoon to talk about listing the house and managing our co-parenting relationship more effectively. If anyone has suggestions for moving towards indifference in light of that agenda, I'm all ears.
Oh gosh. Love the fish and bicycle comment, MB.
My 2 cents on coparenting...the reality is that your h will parent the way he does and quite frankly, it will fall on you primarily. That may evolve over time, however, it will be interesting to see his take. I know that my xh has actually stated a number of times that he moved out *so that he could much more away time from the kids.* That's his decision. His loss.
However, as you know, you will want to have some semblance of a life. I know you have a sitter, and don't be afraid to ask him to take them while he's in town. They ARE his kids too.
You are getting to indifference. Hang in there!
Don't take it personally.
Yes, it's hard but he's operating from his unhealthy place. Don't expect healthy to suddenly emerge like Venus rising from the sea.
Know your boundaries and stick with them.
You've go this.
Gloria Steinem indeed. And it looks like a little Helen Reddy thrown in for good measure. Wait... is this a 70s revival thread?
One of my thoughts about the parenting discussion is to highlight on the things you can both do to keep some consistency across both households. I'm pretty sure that that limits the topics up for discussion.
But you might garner some cooperation in the electronics and a few more of your choosing. Go small, MB. Build on successes.
Happy Friday....
Betsey
It was a pretty civilized discussion.
I did crack and ask him if he missed anything about me and he said yes, he missed just connecting and talking to me as we were doing. I almost asked him if that was what he'd missed why he'd trashed it by sleeping around, but then I thought, What's the point? It's done. Move on.
There were places where he asked me to do some things for him and I said no, that I had already set it up for him twice and he hadn't taken care of it and now it was on him. (I said this nicely, not snotty, but I was firm.)
My overwhelming feeling now is that this was all a huge waste. It didn't need to have been like this. But also I'm feeling kind of liberated. I didn't realize how much insecurity I felt relying on his management of out finances, and how disenfranchised I felt about our goals and plans. The idea of driving my own bus, of not just drifting along in his chaotic wake, is very exciting to me. I already feel more grounded than I've felt in YEARS.
Incidentally, Labug, I noticed a certain discomfort when you called him unhealthy. I think I had always thought of him as above me; it didn't really sink in that he actually could be unhealthy because he was supposed to be better than me. And he presents as a rational guy.
Well, whatever that is worth. But I feel ready for my new life.
Maybell! I love your most recent thread and posts. Brought a tear to my eye when you describe that dinner with your children. Very moving. And I know what you mean about your H missing out on some of the fun of parenting. Mine is too. I'm glad we're getting a chance to enjoy and appreciate these moments though.
Rock on! You're definitely on the right track!
Hey Maybell
Happy for you for working towards indifference.
Would you say tonight's conversation was an improvement even from last week?
I would
Hope the lice is gone! We had a pt once and we could not get rid of it - we even ordered a tub of mayonnaise lol .. Finally the mom shaved her entire heAd! Poor girl
Incidentally, Labug, I noticed a certain discomfort when you called him unhealthy. I think I had always thought of him as above me; it didn't really sink in that he actually could be unhealthy because he was supposed to be better than me. And he presents as a rational guy.
Well, whatever that is worth. But I feel ready for my new life.
Unloose those chains and walk free, woman.
I've been trying to ignore this but I think I need some feedback.
STBX today got a call from a major bank saying someone was trying to fraudulently open a credit card in his name. He texted me to ask if it was me.
This is not the first time he has accused me of passive-aggressively taking revenge on him in that manner. He has received notification of accounts on things like Hep-C clinics, etc., and either accuses me directly of doing it or posts it on Facebook and wonders who "the joker" is.
Duh. I'm not passive-aggressive, I do things like throw him out of the house and tell him I hate him in a crowded Starbucks. I'm active-aggressive when I'm moving in that direction.
And JUST YESTERDAY I asked him to transfer my cell phone back into my name and told him I wanted to be as separate from him as possible. Why the H would I open a credit card fraudulently???
Do I tell him I find it insulting or do I just let my "wasn't me" stand?
It just occurred to me... Wonder if it was one of his Tinder hookups but it's easier to blame the STB ex-wife because admitting a Tinder lady could be the culprit would force him to admit the Flaw In The Plan?
Or maybe it was just a computer breach.
Maybell, I would just let the 'wasn't me' stand...He asked, and you replied. I don't think there's any need to engage further on it - JMHO...
T :-)
I'd just say no. Speak with your actions. One day he'll realize himself how foolish it was of him to suspect you.
^^^agreed
This seems like a good time to take the high road and walk with grace and dignity.
Shake it off, shake--shake it off.
I almost asked him if that was what he'd missed why he'd trashed it...
Hey MB!
I just posted on my thread, I've thought about this so much.
Lately I've been reading some of the Bible to my children. STBX and I didn't take them to church, so much of this is new to them. Still, they're young and I'm "home schooling" them a bit.
We've been reading the Easter story and the Crucifixion. How Jesus prayed for forgiveness to those that were persecuting him because "they know not what they do". I know I made MANY mistakes in my M. I had no clue how much pain I truly caused my STBX. That doesn't make it OK. The damage was done. But I can forgive myself because I am human and I am flawed.
The same way, I forgive my STBX. She's no different than I, her mistakes were just more destructive for the family. But still just mistakes. She knows not what she's done.
Already I feel better able to move forward. I'll regress again I'm sure, you know, two steps forward one back, etc. But tonight has given me a clear glimpse that anger is not detachment, and that as we can find forgiveness instead of resentment...peace of mind and salvation is ours for the taking.
Praying that all of you find the peace that has suddenly come to me today, that it lasts, and that we have the strength to get through our moments of humanity that inevitably will come again.
Tonight I'm watching Cloud Atlas. SUCH a great movie.
"One day ain't but a flea of hope."
"Yea, and fleas aren't so easily rid."
You'd think that after all these months I'd know that when I bristle it's because I've heard truth.
So I've been nursing a hurt since yesterday, about STBX saying it was worth keeping a couple of snapshot albums from our engagement because it has picture of our families in it.
Then there was the credit card thing.
I had been thinking that it was odd, how everybody else seems to get these tirades from their WAS, and I rarely do. I got a little bit last Mothers Day and at Christmas and that's it. But I do get a lot of these horrible, hurtful, needle-like digs where he's intentionally devaluing me, quietly and deniably. It hurts. I know I'm trying for indifference, but it does make me feel like I threw myself away for 17 years on someone who thinks I'm trash.
I am not trash. I have done the best I could, and I did it with the intention of behaving with integrity. I do not need to hurt the way he seems to want to hurt me. That's his, not mine.
Zues's post about "they know not what they do" comes in to play here. STBX probably does think he's behaving really well under difficult circumstances. The fact that he's being gratuitously hurtful probably doesn't occur to him. He has always been thoughtless that way. It just never occurred to me that I would be included in the circle of people he treats carelessly. (So say women who are with men who have anger issues.)
He wants to meet monthly, alone, out, to talk about the kids. Do I really need to do this? Do other people have that sort of arrangement?
1. My birthday is this week so I'm buying myself something that will make me feel beautiful. I haven't done a great job at self-care lately.
2. I don't need to be assuming STBX thinks I'm trash because of his comment about the pictures. He did love me once. A lot. He ought to feel guilty for what he's done. His comments may reflect that more than the value of our marriage. Not my monkey, not my circus.
3. My housing situation will be resolved. We won't be homeless. Anything better than not homeless is a gift. Time to quit worrying about whether I get exactly what I want.
4. The marriage has been over for a while. He's just the guy I share my kids with. Time to start building my life on purpose. Past time, in fact, to move forward. I have some amazing plans in place. I know who I intend to be. No reason to procrastinate implementing.
5. I do not want to meet him monthly. He DID in fact hurt me a lot. That was real. Just because I choose to let go of the hurt does not mean I need to let him more closely into my life. We can meet every couple of months to talk about the kids. Everything else can be done by email or in a quick moment at handoffs.
6. It's not all about me. There are times when it's appropriate to be self-absorbed. Avoidance is unhealthy. But so is over-focusing. Time to change the balances in my life.
Good work, MB.
Only involve yourself in his drama if you want that in your life.
Okay, since we have next door neighbor birthdays, when is yours? My dad's is Wednesday and mine is in a week. We'll celebrate together!
Love the self care birthday present idea. Fabulous!
But this has got to be the most earth shattering thing you wrote:
I don't need to be assuming STBX thinks I'm trash because of his comment about the pictures. He did love me once. A lot. He ought to feel guilty for what he's done. His comments may reflect that more than the value of our marriage. Not my monkey, not my circus.
I'm striking the middle sentence because it contains the word "ought", which is a kissing cousin to the word I hate the most: should. These are expectations on others. Face it, you hate when your mom uses that word with you, so strike it from your vocabulary, unless the word is used with the pronoun "I". Otherwise, this is amazing growth, MB.
The rest of your post is positive as well. It's minus the anxiety of living in the future, and this looks good on you. Wear more of it!
Towanda!
My birthday is Thursday.
I meant, his comment about the pictures might more accurately reflect guilt over how he treated me than what he actually thinks of me personally.
Last night my mom was complaining that he'd never called them since he left me. I don't know why that would upset her. I wish it weren't all about her so much of the time. And she's complaining about how her retirement community leisure schedule is so full that it all makes her feel like it's too much (they've lived there five months). She wears me out.
Ohhh, well, Thursday will be the start of something new for you!
After reading what you say about your mom, she sounds self absorbed with a healthy dose of narcissism thrown in for good measure. I'm not diagnosing her as a narcissist, as I'm not qualified to diagnose a fly. But there is enough here that makes me hope you have read up on this behavior?
Narcissists cannot manage shame, so they deflect, not caring where the shrapnel strikes. Think about that for a bit, and connect the dots with her inability/unwillingness to accept responsibility for how she feels and your willingness until recently to let the shrapnel hit you without learning defensive combat tactics for unfair warfare. A bulletproof vest works for the surprise deflections, but there are long term strategies to avoid these kinds of attacks.
Anyway, she sounds like someone whose glass is half empty on top of that. Apparently, she hasn't figured out how to balance her own life so it's easy to complain.
Getting back to your comment that wishing it weren't all about her all the time is like someone in Seattle wishing the weather there was more like San Diego. There is little anyone can do about it without her wanting to see the truth for herself and do something about it. Probably not gonna happen. I've worked in hospice long enough to say that unhappy people just get worse with the aging process. She's not going to get nicer or more positive, and she's probably not going to all of a sudden gain enlightenment how she could be a better mom to you without putting forth a great deal of effort.
So what strategy can you employ to fortify yourself when you have to talk to her or see her? Can we help you with that?
My mom's blind spot was my brother. I'd say that 95% of our disagreements came when we discussed my drug addicted brother and his antics. She's a classic enabler, which got into her marriage and if anyone dared criticize her choices, she raged. I've been the object of that rage from time to time. In the early days, I'd just be so hurt that I'd cry for days. She'd resort to name calling and it would hurt me to the bone. As I worked my way through therapy, I discovered I had choices as well. I examined those options and figured out the best case scenario for me. Not having a relationship with my parents (which is otherwise close) was not a consideration.
My plan didn't work perfectly 100% of the time, but it worked well enough for me to learn how to respond and manage my own boundaries. I found my voice and my actions, and although it did not please her much, I honored myself and my feelings. It took awhile to make a plan, stick to it, find courage and keep that. I found an ally in my sister, and as a result, we are extremely close now.
Now that my brother has passed away, these issues are gone. She has admitted how she felt was often at odds with her choices, so I guess there's that. I'm not looking for her enlightenment nowadays, though. I'm merely plugging on with my own. There is so much to be said for taking personal power back. If it makes you feel better, it's only been within the last 10 years that I found my own power.
My mantra has been and probably will be to act in a manner and make choices where when I look back, I have no regrets. I'm not making the statement that they are perfect or aren't mistakes. The important thing is that I can look back and say with conviction that I made the best choice with the facts and resources I had at the time. That's all I can do.
So happy birthday week!
I'll come back to the narcissist thing. Maybe tomorrow. I just want to take a minute to cry a little bit.
Today at work I was checking something on LinkedIn for my boss and I saw that STBX has a new connection. This person has nothing to do with his work and she looks a lot like the OW I know about.
You all can call me out for mind-reading but I think she's his new girlfriend.
And I don't care but I do care. Because today I was also proof-reading the draft of my separation agreement. And STBX has my kids tonight. And I don't know where I'm going to live or how the money is going to work or if this transition is going to drag out through another year of renting.
All I wanted from life was to have a home. A place I could build and nest in, grow from, call mine. I feel now like I've never, ever had my own place in the world. It used to be ok because I had my husband but now I see so clearly that that has been a lie for a long time.
I think I'm weeping for myself. For how much harder it is for me to get this one basic need met than it seems to be for other people. For how scared I am about all the uncertainty in the next four months. For how alone I sometimes feel. For how very, very tired I am. For the waste of the last seventeen years.
I haven't cried in several months but I cried yesterday and I'm crying today. I guess it's having the draft agreement. This is going to really happen. It wasn't al a ghastly mistake. I invested myself in a person who didn't care about me. I devalued my own self.
I don't need a man to get this need met but it would have been nice if STBX hadn't set up this awful situation when he already knew he'd been cheating on me for years. I want to scream at him just for that. I won't say anything. I'll let the separation agreement speak for me. I just hope it's enough to smooth my path.
I'm so afraid that I'm going to have to live in this house to sell it. I'm so tired already and if I have to live in it I don't know how I'll function.
I married a lousy liar. I'm paying for that a lot more than he is. How can I be a good enough person hat I never have to live through something like this ever again???
Maybell-
Looking at the papers will do that to you. I read mine carefully once - and then locked them away. I'm confident I did the right thing in regards to the divorce, bu wow, the day the child custody papers came through for me to sign, it gutted my heart to even see my children's names and ages listed in cold legalese.
As for STBX's new gf.... She may not be his new girlfriend, but even if she isn't, you need to be mentally prepared for this. From everything that you have written about your STBX, he sounds like he is ready to move on, probably sooner than later, and probably with more than one unlucky lady. I doubt anything will last very long - at least not at first.
You know all of this, and I'm confident tomorrow, you will dust yourself off and move forward.
You know what I see as a huge positive in your situation? That making a permanent home would give you so much happiness. Because I know, Maybell, that you will accomplish this. Yes, you may have to rent for a year. But you will get there. Time to start that Pinterest board about the dream home you are working towards.
Sorry...gotta run.
(((Hugs)))
You can do this. We are here to support you. There are some positives. .the chance to create your own home, all by yourself, without the shadow of your parents or stbx. For your kids.
Is it what you would have chosen? Probably not. But it is. Go ahead and cry...and then go ahead and make it great.
We are all here for you, Maybell. So sorry just now to read you were crying today. I know. I know. I've never been a big fan of Linkedin, always thought it was kind of lame. I'm only on there because everyone pretty much has to be now for career stuff. Hugs to you right now, and I'm so, so sorry Ugh. It's so obvious your husband and most of the WASs on here aren't thinking clearly. Thinking of you!
Thank you all.
I really am and will be ok. I know I may have to choose to either live in a house that's for sale or to rent for a year; and if that's the case then I will live in a house for sale and pay my sitter to help with more of the chores. I will be creative about solving this problem as well as the ones that came before and the ones that will come after, because getting through this part of my life doesn't mean the rest of it will be clear sailing.
I am so tired, I fell asleep on the couch and it got dark while I napped. Being that tired makes things harder. And I still haven't kicked this eye allergy so maybe the tears were good for it. Have I mentioned I'm super tired? I haven't been sleeping well for a number of reasons, including anxiety about housing.
STBX is a fool.
I was reading about narcissistic mothers and it occurred to me that the woman I saw today and the former ow both look quite a lot like him. That made me chuckle. I don't look like him at all. And there's no small measure of narcissistic behavior in him, just like my parents.
Debbie Ford says I'm being directed to experiences that will help me self-actualize. So maybe I'm learning to expect more authenticity from others and to fear it less in myself. Maybe I'll have this brilliant second act that will put everything in perspective for me.
MB,
I swear reading your posts over the past couple days sure seems like you flipped a switch... For the way better. You're focusing on solutions and that's a very positive course of action. As my dear old XH used to say, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part,of the problem."
Umm, I think you're proceeding very well with Debbie. I only wish she were still alive to share more of her wisdom. Keep going. You're on the right path.
I married a lousy liar. I'm paying for that a lot more than he is. How can I be a good enough person hat I never have to live through something like this ever again???
Many of us get caught up in this at some point. Uncovering the lie that if we can be "good" bad things won't happen. Bad things happen to everyone. Life is a series of events, some good, some bad, some mundane. There is no giant score board in the sky, no 3 strikes, you deserve a bad thing or 3 stars and you get a treat.
Our job is to learn how to handle all the things that come our way and be OK. As I think you or Betsey said, we learn to self-actualize.
It's all about letting-go and being OK with the present moment.
How can I be a good enough person hat I never have to live through something like this ever again???
From the introduction of NMMNG:
"The Nice Guy Syndrome represents a belief that if Nice Guys are "good", they will be loved, get their needs met, and live a problem-free life."Rings a bell? If so, the whole book is about this.
Yes, there's lots of writing out there about codependency.
Happy Birthday, Ms. Towanda!!
thank you!!!
It's Maybell's Birthday! Hooray!
Since I can't give you a present let me think of a joke or something. Hmmm, got it:
So the bartender says "sorry, we don't serve TIME TRAVELERS here!"...A time traveler walks into a bar...
Hope it's a good one!
Many happy returns Maybell - I hope you enjoy your special day!
Toots x
Hapipppy birthday! Pass the cake
Haha! Zues126, I love the idea of giving a joke since that's about all we can do here. Here's mine, from one of my favorite comedians.
"I don't have a girlfriend. I just know a lady who would get really angry if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg
Happy birthday Maybell!
Happy birthday Maybell. Around my house I am queen of the corny joke. This week I have been specializing in Easter bunny jokes. I will spare you.
I love the jokes!! Thanks for the birthday wishes. I'll update after the kiddos go to bed. Love y'all!!!
Happy Birthday to MB, Happy birthday to MB, happy birthdaaaaaay to MB, happy birthday to MB! And many more!!
-C7
Happy b day MB
I am so lucky! Two friends stopped by and gave me a cake & flowers at work. I got tons of calls and texts and Facebook wishes. A friend stopped by for a glass of wine on my porch on the first warm day of spring. My sitter, who wasn't available on Monday, now is, and I'm prequalified for a home loan!
43 is totally going to be my year.
Now I just need to get the furnace fixed and the house tidy. Somehow.
She left out the time traveler joke. How could she leave out the time traveler joke.
Glad your friends and loved ones are making some noise MB
Happy birthday Maybell
Forget about the past, you can't change it.
Forget about the future, you can't predict it.
Forget about the present, I didn't get you one.
Wonderful Maybell! Towanda's on a roll! This WILL be your year! Keep shining!
Happy birthday, dear Maybell. Sounds like you had a great day!
Happy Birthday Maybell and Congratulations!
I hope you had a day celebrating you.
Thank you all, it was a nice birthday.
I'm feeling a little more neutral towards STBX. I don't respect him or want to be near him or have anything to do with him but I don't want to throw rocks at him either. There is a huge hole in my chest when I think how important he was to me and for however long (I'll never know how long) he valued me so little that he could sleep around and be so callous about me and the damage he was doing. That hurts, to have been treated with such contempt. I'm sad he's not a better person. I'm disappointed in him and I do not trust him at all. But I will live through it.
I have been clenching my teeth something fierce as I power through disentangling myself from my marriage and now they really hurt. Since I'm about to have major medical only -- no more vision or dental coverage -- I hope that as I acclimate this improves.
I looked at houses today. There's one that would be nice but it's not the kind of life I want (subdivision life. NO.) and there is just NOTHING else out there. I know shame won't help, but I hope STBX feels a lot of it, because I'm feeling tremendous anxiety about how and where the kids and I are going to live and every g-d ounce of that is on him.
How could he have inflicted all this on someone who loved him? On his kids? Who is that kind of jerk?
I woke up this morning feeling happy to be done with him. This upset is just the housing anxiety talking. I don't want to live in a subdivision. I don't want to live that way to the point of tears. I know God will make a way for things to work but sometimes I wish he didn't have to be so mysterious about it. There is NOTHING on the market in my area. I think the house will sell pretty fast because of that. I'm really scared.
On the up side... I do feel like I understand now who I am. What my path is meant to be and how I intend to travel it.
TOWANDA.
I think STBX has fallen prey to an Internet dating or porn scam. He's gotten multiple notices of attempts to open fraudulent credit cards in his name. I'm going to have to put a fraud alert on my identity too. Because his stupidity could conceivably result in the kids & I not even getting into a subdivision house.
What a nimrod.
Actually, the more I think about this the more nervous I am for my financial future. My L said that the same behavior that cost STBX the marriage could cost him his employment in the future, and just because STBX has abandoned ship doesn't mean he can't still manage to sink it.
Maybell
A little while ago H was subject to a PayPal scam and my bank ID was hacked too. It took a couple of weeks but the banks sorted it, I squeaked by financially, ducking and diving but I did it. At one stage 36.43 off my maximum overdraft limit until the cash came back in.
Whatever happens my lovely one, you will be OK. You always have been there for yourself and your children, you are resourceful and incredibly able. Competent and loving you will find a way. I would like to bet you can duck and dive too, with the best!
There is little that can stop you, you have been carrying the weight of H too, that is one less burden on your back. I believe in Maybell and her powers of survival and thriving.
It will be alright in the end, if it is not alright it's not the end and besides the fat lady has not sung yet.
Sunshine today
V
Nope, I'm not singing nilla is right!
Bad joke being 20kg lighter makes me a skinner fat lady. I think I graduated from morbid to just plan obese.
It's ok, subdivision might be better than bankrupt on h titanic?
Perhaps? It could be that move that steps you on to better things.
MB, your life is what you make it, no matter where that is physically.
Is that fear rearing it's head again? Fear that where you live means something either negative or positive about you?
Where do all those rules originate?
Thank you all for the support.
It's not fear about the subdivision. Well, it is, but it's a different kind of fear.
See, I love my life here. I love that I can walk everywhere that I care to go except the grocery store. I love that my kids can do that. We can walk to farmers' markets (when they're in season). To school. To friends' houses. To the restaurants I like to frequent, and I like that I can safely walk home from downtown, or from friends' houses, or from band night in the park even if I've had a drink or two, and I don't have to worry. I love walking in a crowd of friends to book club or a porch party.
I love living in a smaller house because I have to be more intentional -- I can't let consumption overtake us because in a smaller house it will, quickly. I love being part of this community.
Subdivision life = more cut off from my neighbors; tied to the car; too much space means the house fills up without my noticing; harder to keep the kids accountable for themselves. I like living mindfully; I don't want to put myself in a setting where I'm working against that way of life.
I had just started embracing these changes. They aren't second nature yet. But they make me feel good about myself, and they make me feel connected to my community. I've been "new to the area" my entire life. I want to be connected. Subdivision life feels like exile to me.
Thanks, Vanilla, for the truth from the trenches. Ggrass, yes indeed, I am lighter without the STBX load -- I just hopes he doesn't default on his obligations. Labug, I made a commitment to myself a long time ago that my outside should match my inside. I want to honor that commitment. But if I have to live in a subdivision I'll remember that other people would consider that an enormous blessing and I will find a way to be grateful for it.
Here are some good things to counterbalance the anxiety:
My co-worker sold her house this weekend. She was as worried about her housing situation as I've been about mine and I've been reassuring her for 2-3 weeks (or longer) that all will be well. I happened to be with her when she got the news and I found myself profoundly and generously grateful on her behalf for that problem resolving for her. There was not one ounce of selfishness in my gratitude that her house had sold -- and I have to say, I'm really, truly grateful for that as well. Because I like what it says about me that I can feel that way without trying.
The second thing is that STBX let me take the kids to church this morning to celebrate Easter and they went very nicely, even though we have to get up early to make the long drive, and two of them have bad colds. And we had a lovely time and stayed for the potluck brunch after the service and spent the morning with two other families and the kids are clearly becoming comfortable with that part of my tribe. And I am SO grateful for that part of my tribe.
The third thing is that church softball starts next weekend and my kids have promised to practice with me, and to sometimes come down for the games so I don't have to miss just because they're with me. And I'm looking forward to meeting new people I don't know (or don't know well) and taking on a new GAL activity after this long, cold winter.
The fourth thing is that on the way to church this morning the kids started asking for outings we could do that are repeats of things we did when STBX first left. Also for a couple of other big outings -- which is lovely, they were asking for experiences rather than stuff. That makes me feel like I'm becoming the parent I want to be, and that it matters to them.
And the fifth thing (then I'll stop, though I think there's more), is that a couple of my friends here have taken on a BIG project that I've been honored to help with just a little bit. I was with them till very late Friday night helping and then stopped in yesterday to see how it was going. Their kids have seen very little of them in the last month and it occurred to me that they were probably too wiped out to celebrate Easter, so I gave them a spur of the moment invitation. STBX is letting me have the kids back a couple of hours early so we can all be together and I am grateful that I have the means, material and skillful, to pull together a short-notice Easter dinner for people who matter a lot to me.
So I whine and worry but when it comes down to it there is much more good in my life than otherwise.
This post is a beautiful thing MB! Sounds like you had a wonderful weekend.
I would, and in fact did, figure out how to stay in a neighborhood like you describe. I can't walk everywhere
but I have great neighbors, activities, friends right outside my door. Not to mention the natural beauty.
I thought of taking on a housemate, renting my house out and moving to a much smaller guest house in the same neighborhood, I did get a second job for awhile....
Every idea I could think of was on the table.
I hope it works out in the best way for you and your family.
So I find there's more to my "house" story.
I'm happy I'm still here but I stayed here out of fear and anger, at least in the beginning. Fear of everything (money, new mortgage, moving on my own, etc) and anger about "Just another way (H) screwed up my life."
I can see very clearly that I was holding on to what I thought "should" be and creating my own suffering.
Several people encouraged me to just wait for that storm of emotion to pass and it did. Even a little further down the road I got to a place where I knew that I would be fine and maybe even better, no matter where I landed.
I let go. Took a leap of faith that all would be OK just as your tag line says. Just as it seems you're doing.
Dr Strangelove: How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.
Thanks, Labug!
So a lot happened today.
The lawyers finished the settlement agreement today and I'm signing tomorrow. Then it will be off to STBX's attorney and another big check mark crossed off my moving-forward list.
We met the listing agent for the house. She was so dynamic and she spoke STBX's language so I didn't have to sell it at all. That was good.
D12 was quite surly about it but -- MIRACLE! -- she actually told (snarled) her issue to me and I was able to answer it. She started making it all my fault and so I said, "I understand you are upset. I'm not too happy either. Please understand, this isn't what I want, but I need you to not put me in the position of speaking against your dad." She stopped giving me grief. Later I said that I promised that if she had any questions about anything that I would be as honest as I could. Then I just left it. She's still pretty snarly but she dialed it back enough that I could overlook it.
STBX stopped in the middle of the house tour to send a text. The look on his face suggests to this mind-reading lady that he was pushing off a date with his girlfriend (who I believe I've identified). I don't know this to be true, but I do believe it to be true. Which is useful in that I realized... I've moved into a phase of caring less than I did. And if he has "replaced" me with a new girlfriend, well, that says way more about him than about me. Because if he still wants a relationship but he isn't willing to be honest enough with me to get his needs met (or generous enough to meet mine, or confident enough to be "uncomfortable" co-running family business...), then swapping me out for Woman 2.0 (2.3? 4.2? The 6?) isn't going to get him the happily ever after. I'm not the Flaw In The Plan.
And I stood there this evening and I looked him full in the face, and the hole in my heart seemed smaller. A LOT smaller. And he seemed less desirable and I'm interested in my future.
It is nice to think I'm finally beginning to grow up.
You sound much better Maybell! happy to see that! ((()))
Thanks, lost. It's a process.
Signed the proposed settlement agreement today and it should be shipped off to stbx today. I feel sick but ok, if that makes any sense.
That's a big step Maybell. Good for you.
You know, I think feeling sick about it is a true, maybe even expected, feeling in this circumstance and gaining an understanding of why you feel that way is the process. Not letting it drive you is the result of the process.
I feel sick to my stomach right now and that's OK, my life is changing. I don't have to reproach myself, or try to cajole myself out of it. I just need to breathe, feel it, understand it and let it pass.
It's hard to do with some of our "darker" emotions, but that's my self-talk during those times.
^^^yep
And honestly, wouldn't it be more strange to not feel bad about this? Divorce suxx. People should feel badly about it, regardless of the circumstances.
There's that 4-letter word with 6-letters, SHOULD.
Ok, ok. What about this: divorce is often a sad thing, and it's reasonable for someone to feel sad about it, regardless of the circumstances.
(Is that better? I am really trying, labug! ) :*)
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2555834#Post2555834