Just a quick start off post as thread 10 locked.
I just finished the night shift with S15. I stayed with him all night fetching water, plumping pillows, talking and all the things he might not have wanted to 'bother' the nurses with. We laughed about stuff he said under the influence. I taught him the basic mindfullness breath technique and we got through the night in which he was intense pain for quite a bit of it. He is such a brave lad. I am so proud of him.
I'm knackered now and off to sleep for a bit. WW has taken over now. She said I was amazing. And she's right for once.
Hi OD, it's great that you were able to be there for him in that way in his hour of need. Hope you catch up on some sleep today, and that his pain improves soon. Nice that a difficult experience has brought you and your W a little closer...
((OD))
Hi old dog. Sorry your S was in pain but you were there for him and that's what dads are for. Glad op is over and I hope it all went as planned. Take care. Rd
Thanks everyone. The op went very well. The surgeons are pleased with the outcome and we saw an 'after' x-ray today. Much better.
S15 is very resiliant - something WW takes credit for: sheesh! - and is bearing up. He's out of intensive care and on an ordinary ward now. I took him his MacBook so he'll probably forget to top up the morphine levels ;-)
As I said above, she said I was amazing for staying up with S15 all night and seeing to his every need. She fell to pieces and had to leave the room and I took over and handled it. She complimented me on that and I said you are very good in loads of other ways.
We worked very well together as a team. Something WW is willing just to throw away in her sefish pursuit of ... well who knows. I found it hard to look at her without feeling anger within me for what she has done. I held it in check though using my mindfullness skills and also I think due to lack of caring too much any longer.
OD, nice job being there for your S. That's what's important.
W probably doesn't see that she's throwing teamwork away, she assumes it will continue and she'll just go enjoy whatever in her spare time.
OD
That's terrific news.
OD I care most about you and S15, this is fatherhood at its very best.
V
RD, thanks for your sympthy. S15 realised it wold be painful: he sat through all the meetings, kids don't know about these things and cannot imagine them but I think he was a bit surprised by how painful it was.
RPP, I think you're right. WW was reminded today about kind of person I am.
I wish I was determined to just up and go after S15 gets better but I waver and worry.
And thanks V, you never know how you will cope until the challenge is thrown down. She failed abysmally and I took it on with aplomb if I say so myself.
I even got some validating in without gloating or anything.
Great news op was a success. Must have been an incredible worry. Carry on being the best dad possible , you will get just as much benefit as your S.
Take care. Rd
Thanks RD. WW cried handing over to the surgeons in theatre - she has delagation issues, and even told the anaesthestist this.
And I cried when we got him back in one piece. Then when WW couldn't do anything to help ease the pain, she was felt useless and had to leave while I stayed withhim throughout the night. We had such a good bonding session in very difficult conditions.
OD,
Way to go! You came through this on top....as a super Dad. Nice work, bud.
It's what life is all about I think OD. Being there for our families when the going gets tough - along with the good times.
Makes OM look a bit silly with his suggestive cards....It's probably just a matter of time until your W sees that too...
When will S be able to come home?
OD - so happy to hear the op went well.
You know you are at your best when you can truly give to your son like that. He knows it or will realize it someday. WW sees this - you know she does. She knows what kind of man you really are and someday may even admit it.
Best wishes
Thank you everyone it is what you do for your family after all.
However I don't think WW will ever be swayed. It doesn't mean I won't carry on DBing but I think I may have to move out, forget her and start again.
I've just been reading about divprce in the UK and man alive is the deck stacked against men!
OD, just catching up (Amsterdam now). I'm so pleased to hear S15's surgery went well and that OD was able to showcase his parenting skills in all their glory. Yes, it is what you do for your family - but we see full well on these forums that that is not always the case. Parents don't always pull through for their kids. S15 is lucky to have you. W is a fool.
Good job od, I think you did well in a hard sitch.
It will become easier the more you Pratice and with the more times it happens.
Often it's hard to know what's best and later we beat ourselves up, there is nothing you can do to make it different, Apart from od.
OD
You are increasing your R with your children, as a loving dad this shines through.
Please drop the score card with WW, I think this is counter productive.
V
Now I'm home and on my own again I feel really low. Woke up and cried in the night and again just now. I'm going to go and see a solicitor to see about ... well my situation. From what I read about divorce last night, it looks she would be awarded everything as she's got the kids. You have to ask, whats the point?
OD, sorry you're feeling low. You pushed the boat out this weekend, and then you had all the worry and trauma of S's op. You're probably just coming down from all that, so give yourself a bit of TLC next few days.
It's a good idea to see a L. They normally offer a free half hour consultation, and it's well worth seeing more than one on that basis. I wasn't keen on the first one I saw, but liked the second. Be prepared for the hourly rate of £200+ if your S is a partner in the firm like mine is. Also, maybe have a think about collaborative versus traditional avenues. If you want collaborative - ie you sit round the table with your L and work things out - you'll need a collaborative trained L.
You shouldn't 'lose' everything. As your own housing needs will be taken into account, but your L can advise further.
Also, there's no rush to make any huge decisions when you are feeling raw. It's still early days since you confirmed this is a PA. And as we know these things tend to 'run their course.' However, I always think in-house S's sound very tough, when there is an ongoing A. Only you can decide what you can live with.
Take care OD, and keep up the great work supporting the family...(((OD)))
Hi OD,
Glad your S's op went well. How is he doing?
As for the legality stuff, I wouldnt take everything you read at face value. It is in part about how you and your W agree things.
there is a child maintenance calculator on the CSA website which will tell you how much this is monthly. Your W works and so you should be able to avoid spousal maintenance and there is no good reason that you shouldnt get half the equity in your house - Your W is the one leaving and who had the affair after all.
Speak to a solicitor, preferably a couple if they do free consultations so you get different viewpoints and proper advice. Also then pick the solicitor you are most comfortable with.
I hate to say it but spending a couple of grand now on a good solicitor could save you tens of thousands over the lifetime of the settlement you reach.
All the best OD
When is your next Ceroc outing?
Thanks Toots. I've got a free half hour booked on Monday 30th now.
I don't feel collaborative right now, I feel like running away to an idyllic south sea island ... dragging all my baggage with me ... but who knows.
I'm also feeling rather self concious about announcing the waterworks again. I know you have to recognise and experience your feelings but I don't know why I posted it on here. Looking for something perhaps.
My goodness waterworks are part of emptying the pot of pain. Every tear is clearing the past hurt and difficulty.
Only the strong cry OD, only those with a heart, only those who have known love, and of course the joy of love.
Crying is good, keep it coming.
Tears have bitter lacrimal fluid in it, the stronger the lacrimal the more the poison released, the breakdown products leaving the body.
Tears make the eyes shine, tears open up the ducts, tears clear the eye bags, tears make us young and tender, tears make us childlike, tears make us human, tears make us connect.
Bring it on.
If you go to that south sea island then leave with empty bags.
V
Yes, crying is part of it but I don't really need to report it do I? I think it's attention seeking. Look at me, I'm suffering and here's the proof. It's fine for a while but to document grieving but to be still saying so nine months later? Maybe that's slipping into passive aggressive behaviour. Make sure everyone knows how I'm hurting to elicit more sympathy. It's what I did the last time and is something WW accused me of doing again.
Does that sound like I'm being too harsh on myself? I'm not sure but what I do know us that I want to stop being passive aggressive and fearful.
I also wish I didn't wake up in the middle of the night running.over everything that has happened over and over again. Gah! That certainly isn't conducive to a PMA.
On a more positive note, S15 is doing well. His pain seems to be more manageable but he's not eating, which is a concern. He's also quite a bit taller and has shot past WW and is approaching my height. I wasn't there when he stood up yesterday as I had to go home for S12, but I should be there tomorrow (later today) when the physio comes round again.
OD
You report if you want to. So you are unhappy and perhaps it is attention seeking, perhaps not, what do you want it to be?
It is a release phase, possibly a little bit of relief that S op went well. Personally if it expresses where you are I can not see it as passive aggressive in any way as long as it is genuine tears which they are.
So you want sympathy and empathy, well OD that is something most of us want.
V will offer you all of the sympathy you would want, why should we be denied that? A little 2x4 occasionally to even things up.
So in which ways are you passive aggressive?
V
What are you doing awake at this time V?
I'm going to try and get some more sleep now so I'll answer your question a little later.
OD
I am awake because I have things on my mind.
I am thinking. I am designing a plan for business after spending the evening with a very inspirational nearly 90 year old who wants to go dancing with her 10 year younger boyfriend.
Who came into my room and told me that last time she saw me I told her " you might only have another 15 years left, go live it" and then she said "T, her new bf wants her to go on a cruise and she can decide where, and she wants to go the fjords in Sweden as it appeals to her". Well I have only 45 years left and they must not be wasted, I have fjords to visit too.
You go gf, why am I sitting moping a little, when this precious woman with osteo wants to go dancing amoung icebergs, share a cuddle in bed with her fella? I need a plan, so I am putting together a plan and I can not wait to get started.
V
Vanillia. You sound strong and determined. Not a Vanillia that will take any rubbish from anyone, especially H. Inspirational as always
Take care. Rd
Hi OD, just checking in to see how you're doing my friend. I hope S is continuing to improve, and you are all coping well. Do you know when he's likely to be able to come home?
How have things been going in terms of interactions with your W? Was anything further mentioned on the boundaries front, or has your W respected those?
Anyways, look forward to hearing how you're getting along! ((OD))
I think OD is out dancing tonight!
V
Hey Toots. Thanks for checking up on me.
S15 has been discharged and we just arrived back home not too long ago. We started the journey off silently but then I put some music from my iPhone. I sang along to some of it and some other songs I'm sure they would have deemed weird. Swiss girl punk group from the late 80s Kleenex came on. Yes it's dated, but I liked it at the time.
On the interactions front, it's all been cordial, businesslike and child focused. I just refused her offer of a cup of tea and made my own coffee instead. Is this petty?Nothing further has been mentioned yet but there may be opportunity for her tomorrow morning. As far as I know there's nothing else in the house relating to her affair - she removed the cards last week.
She's just this minute come in and said she going to sleep in S15's room in case he needs anything. Well that suits me. I just said OK.
I'll need to catch up on other peoples threads now I suppose, but first I've got three rugby matches to watch on iPlayer. Don't tell me the scores or it'll ruin it.
I think OD is out dancing tonight!
V
Not tonight, but I was last night. I met up with friends and went to see the James Taylor Quartet at Ronnie Scott's. Good stuff :-)
GAL!
Music GAL.
Lots of points
V
Well done od. Dancing is good for the soul.
Let's hope it lifts that mood and helps to move you forward.
I did a bit more dancing this evening and tried my hand ... er I mean foot at Leroc.
It did lift my mood. This morning wan't a good start ... again.
It happens, we all have times when stuff is bloody overwhelming.
I'm finally getting my feet back in the ground after a pretty rough time lately ... but now I have to go back home for 10 days to look help after S12.
I must STFU for the duration.
OD, good to hear from you. I thought of you earlier today and wondered how you were getting along. Glad to hear you're getting you're feet back in the ground. I think you're good at regrouping, because your sitch hasn't been an easy one lately.
As you say, it may not be an easy 10 days, but hopefully you and S will have a nice time together. And W may do what she will - OD is getting on with his life regardless :-)
Back home now for an extra long 10 days looking after S15.
WW didn't pick me up from the station. I guess she didn't want yo leave S15 alone. I'm supposing thus as she didn't text me.
I got back and saw them through the window. I sat outside in the dark for a few minutes until S15 sad me and opened the door.
This feels like the end.
Hey, hey...we've got your back. Right now, forget W. It is BOYS time!!! Rent some
Game of Thrones DVDs or some boy-man movie for you to watch. Male bonding time and all that testosterone filled weekend.
I'm out.
Thanks Wonka.
She's still in the house for the moment, sleeping on the landing outside S15's room. Has been all week apparently. Suits me fine though.
I don't know what plans she's got this weekend but I'll actually be glad if she sods off to OMs. I can't stand the sight of her. I didn't go and say hello when I got back home. I sat in the kitchen and finished watching a film about Joy Division on my iPad which I'd started on the train. She came in eventually and we exchanged hellos then.
I don't like all this anger and hate, it's not like me at all. Everything is making me feel depressed at the moment.
I need some male bonding time with the boys all right.
Do NOT watch Game of Thrones with minor children!!!!!!!!
Sorry you're struggling, OD. What will you do for self care for the next ten days?
Do NOT watch Game of Thrones with minor children!!!!!!!!
Ooops...I don't watch it personally, but it seems all the rage with teens and adults nowadays.
Maybe
The Stooges or the
Goonies would be a better option...or the
Spy Kids movie.
Ha no :-) WW got it for S15's birthday recently but as I've seen it I informed her about all the graphic incest scenes and so it's been held back.
Never could stand the stooges. I've got Spinal Tap lined up though.
Ha no :-) WW got it for S15's birthday recently but as I've seen it I informed her about all the graphic incest scenes and so it's been held back.
Ugh!
No way....glad that Maybell spoke up here.
Are you sure that you're a man??! You are a rare man that doesn't like the Stooges.
:-) I don't like Charlie Chaplin or Abbot & Costello either.
I do like Laurel & Hardy, Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Keystone Cops and many others though.
What will you do for self care for the next ten days?
Er ... I don't know. I hadn't thought about it.
I will be going dark. Minimal interaction except to do with kids.
I will also remove myself from her presence as much as possible.
I won't listen to any lectures she might want to give.
If the lad is able (30 min car journey), I will visit my mum and brother at times.
I will try and get in touch with the one person I know in this town.
Read books that aren't to do with any of this crap. I am half way through a fly on the wall book detailing a season at the football (soccer) club I support. It's not your usual fawning puff piece, it's warts and all.
I want to keep busy, but I'm not sure whether to do any house chores. I'll have to share making food and the washing up I guess but things like tidying up, washing, ironing & cutting the grass I don't feel inclined to do.
One thing I probably do need to do is replace some ceiling lights in the kitchen. It's a really high ceiling, about 4-5 metres, you need a ladder. She won't do it and I don't want her to call OM for help. There's no one else I know of that she'd call.
So when I was pregnant with my first child, I made a decision that every day was going to have to include a hot shower and a good cup of coffee to meet my minimum standard for a good day. Later I included exercise on that list. No matter what happened, if I got the things on my list, then I could look back and call that day a success. If the baby screamed through the shower and it only lasted three minutes, I still made sure I felt fresh for the day. Minimum standards.
I met that standard every single day that each of my kids was under three. I missed two days in all those years -- because those two days were so awful that I was motivated to make meeting my minimum standards a priority.
I have gotten away from that minimum standard idea but I think it's necessary to have those priorities in place when you're going through a tough time. In fact, now that I'm telling you about this I think I need to reinstate that idea for myself.
So, NS-OD, what will your minimum standards (within your control) be for a good day? What will you commit to doing for yourself every day to get through this period?
That's cool Maybell, I could go for a short run followed by a shower.
My minimum standards already include shaving every day, trying to make my hair look half decent and not looking like a slob. I never wear track/sweat stuff: I don't even own any. Sorry if I've just offended anyone who does but I just think it makes you look like a chav.
Thanks, OD. You've just added "chav" to my vocabulary. Coincidentally, The Streets were on the radio earlier in the day. They are such chavs!
You must have seen sone chavs when you were in London ganb8te.
Having said that, I have to take issue with 'the demonisation of the working classes' which is also the title of a book by Owen Jones, a political writer I admire and follow on Twitter.
Labelling people as such just encourages the them and us attitudes prevalent in society.
Apparently my WW is 'going to leave us to it, and will be back at Monday lunchtime'.
Part of wants to scream at her and another part is thankful I won't have to avoid her all weekend.
I couldn't help it. Well actually I probably could but I'm so angry I found myself saying f*** off to her and slamming the door in her face as she left. She didn't say anything, but went to get the car. The car that she says she never leaves us without.
So then I confronted her about that saying so you're taking the car as well then. She said well you can't go anywhere because of S15. I said he'd come all the way from the hospital and then called her a selfish c***. She then hit out of the car to which said again f*** off and turned away and walked back to the house. She called out after me and I repeated both phrases, went indoors and slammed the door again.
Not ideal DBing I know and I'm still shaking. I don't know if I feel better for it or not. I hate her for doing this.
DB-ing? Forget DB-ing, how about just being a decent guy? I personally find your use of the c-word offensive and it wasn't even directed at me. Sure you are angry and frustrated, but pull it together OD. If I were you, I'd apologize for that.
I think you need to get away from your W. You've talked about it, seems like you could use the space. Is that possible?
Yeah I know rpp. I apologise to you and everyone on here for lacking self control and using the c word. I don't swear very often, especially in front of the kids (and this wasn't).
She swears way more than me, including the c word. I know it's no excuse and a decent guy doesn't resort to it. I just wanted to do it all of a sudden, so I did.
And it's the very worst time to do it as we're going to be here next week looking after S15. I've taken a week off work and she works round the corner.
OD,
I know the feeling of still shaking when you completely lose it like that. Just apologize for the language and try not to do it again. Every day is a fresh start. Trust me, I've hurled my share of awful things at my H too during all of this and one of the things that stops that type of behavior is reminding myself when I act that way, all I'm doing is reminding H why he left and whether he's coming back or not, I don't need to remind him of that! It [censored] being the bigger person and right in that moment, yeah, it feels good to let it out, but the satisfaction is only temporary, then you're left shaking. Trust me, I KNOW!
Is there anything nice you can do for her as sort of an apology without any expectations on your end? The extra time you'll be spending with her next week might be an opportunity to practice kindness and empathy and a PMA--in the face of what I know is a very difficult situation.
hi old dog. Sorry that happened but I just want to say that's one of the funniest things I've seen typed on her , not ideal DBing !!!! Again sorry mate but that really made me smile !
You have to pull back with the interactions. Nothing good is going to come from them Did you read Sandis WW post ? Nothing you say is going to affect her at the moment I know how you feel but you need some self control.
Far be it for me to tell anyone how to behave but in my humble opinion you stepped over the line.
Try to calm down mate and take care. Rd
Well, yes, what everyone else says... Apologize for the language and find better outlets for the future.
So, her S15 just had major surgery and she's leaving for 48 hrs with the family's only car???? I'd be cussing too.
The thing is, OD, you've had a TON of guidance here about getting space and caring for yourself so you can be less reactive. You resist and resist a LOT. If you fought good advice less and practiced a little less Eeyore, this would not have happened.
Sometimes I feel like you don't see the big picture. Your W is behaving TERRIBLY and no one here will defend her appalling choices. But to the extent she's taking advantage of you (a whole, whole lot), you're permitting a lot of it. It's like you go into that house hoping that this time something will be different but instead it just gets a step worse and you're surprised.
Are you following Sandi's WW threads? You should go back and read every word of those. They are gold. What you're trying is not working. Back away from the cheeseless tunnel and rethink your options.
Not ideal indeed. I feel I'm complete rubbish at it.
I've totally pulled back with interactions. I figured this week that's what I'll have to do but she just spring this on me again with five minutes notice and I just ignored the warning bells in my mind and went for it.
I even had to get up off the sofa and walk to the door to do it. I could easily have just remained where I was. I guess I did it because I have lost so much respect for her now. I have never spoken to her like that before in 21 years, even in the last nine months.
I'm half way through sandi's second WW thread. Really interesting and a bit of an eye opener.
I met with my counsellor this week and we did a cost / benefit analysis of some possible options to improve my situation. Below is a brief summary.
Leave home and stay with my mum when I come back to see the kids.Costs- I won’t be able to return to the house and live with my kids.
- I will be removed with fewer chances to demonstrate positive changes.
- It may be a step towards OM becoming the kids step dad.
- I would have to move everything of mine out.
- I may lose joint ownership of many items if I don’t want anything to do with her. (Possibly a knee jerk passive aggressive response but maybe still valid anyway.)
- I may have to move some stuff stored in my mum’s barn back in.
Benefits- I wouldn’t have to see her and therefore reduce the stress and hurt.
- I could hand over all responsibilities of running the house to her.
- My mum would like it if I moved in with her at weekends.
WW not at home when I’m around every week or every other weekend.Costs- It would enable WW to continue her affair more easily.
- There would be some impact on the children as we would not be doing things as a family.
Benefits- I wouldn’t have to see her and therefore reduce the stress and hurt.
- WW would have to take on responsibility for her weekend.
- I could do what I want on my weekend with the kids.
- I would have a weekend free.
Keep things as they areCosts- Continue to take responsibility for house, chores, bills etc.
- Pain: the risk of feeling miserable very weekend.
- I can’t do what I want and get on with my own life.
Benefits- Seeing the kids every weekend helps me stay positive.
- Demonstrating positive change to WW.
We left it like that but with a couple of things to think about this week.
Are there any other changes that can be made?
How will the kids be affected?
Sounds like a 180 to me, a little toooooo strong perhaps!
I am with RD on this.
V
I don't think you can make positive changes till you get some space to detach.
Just my two cents.
Hi OD, that was not a good exchange with your W. I hope you have apologised for that. You are reinforcing her view that you and she can't work, and she is right to consider the M over. You're 9 months in now, and you remain so 'attached' to your W - and reactive too. That's not great for you, your M or your family...
The process above looks helpful. What about going over it with a highlighter, looking at which costs and benefits REALLY matter to you right now. What's the bottom line for you?
IMHO, a S may do your sitch a lot of good...
I haven't apologised yet as she won't be back until tomorrow lunchtime.
I could send a text or email I suppose but as I confronted her face to face, I thought it would be better to apologise the same way. I really don't feel like doing it but I guess I should.
Here's what I plan to say.
I'm sorry I lost control of my anger the other day and swore at you. I have a really hard time being left babysitting while you go out with him when we were never allowed to go out together because if your delegation issues.
As for my options. I really don't know what to do for the best. I think I feel depressed and depressed people cannot make decisions.
I'm sorry I lost control of my anger the other day and swore at you. I have a really hard time being left babysitting while you go out with him when we were never allowed to go out together because if your delegation issues.
OD, are you talking to IC about possibility of depression?
I did wonder about the second bit. I want to say it but whether I should or not is another matter.
I spoke to my doctor about depression a while ago: I'm on ADs. I figure I'll take any help I can get. My IC knows as well. I don't know how much good they do as I can't be on them and off them at the same time to tell. I don't feel depressed most of the time but I can't make decisions like whether to move out or not.
I think I'm veering toward the middle ground though. I fear the first burning bridges option and think I could handle the third status quo option when I clearly can't.
Hi OD, I would definitely lose the second part as Gan wisely suggests. It goes straight into blaming, passive agressive and so on, which undermines your apology.
If you want to add anything on, go for something like:
This isn't the easiest time for any of us. We'll get through it, but I shouldn't have lost my temper.
Sounds like it may be a good idea to keep working with your IC on what option is going to be best for you - living arrangements wise.
Another thing to think about is truly accepting where things are and letting your W go. She will be 'gone' for some time I suspect and holding on is hurting you a lot. I say holding on because the second part of your apology certainly shows that's what you are doing. You may find a sense of relief/release if you can get to that point.
It's good that you are seeing an IC and taking ADs. What else could you do for yourself that may help lift your mood?
(((OD))) - ps: hope S is making good progress....
Thanks for checking in on S15. He's doing OK. His bandage peeled off yesterday so we could see the huge incision line all the way down his back. Yikes!
WW is a bit worried that he may be over compensating the natural tendency of his muscles body parts that have moved due to the surgery. He has scoliosis, curvature of the spine.
-----
Short apology best all round then. She'll come back with we have to talk though.
I do know she won't be back anytime soon, and deep down I don't think she ever will. Maybe this is what makes it worse. I miss her so much.
Sometimes I think there must be something wrong with me.
I've just been to the supermarket and found myself seething about WW being absent without leave. And if I'm not careful I wind myself up into a ball of fury.
Why can't I just let go?
OD
I agree with Gan but would replace the word sorry with apologise.
Glad S15 doing well.
V
Because it's hard that is why. It's hard for all of us and that is the reality.
I am sorry for your pain. I am in the same boat.
Hi OD. Firstly I'm sorry for not asking for about S. Glad to hear he's doing ok but scar sounds painful. Of course you get angry, this lady was your best friend and you spent a lot of your life with her She let you down and is with some else. The thing is she did that to you. Now your doing it to yourself everyday
You need to step back At the moment the M is over You have to accept that W is not in a M with you. She will not act like she is and she will not treat you like she is. Please re read Sandis WW post. M
Sorry for the pain your feeling mate. Take care. Rd
Dear OD,
you are really a nice bloke who deserves happiness. I wish I could say anything that would make you feel better. Be kind with yourself, don't beat yourself up.
Sometimes there are no perfect answers to our problems, just second or third best answers. Life is messy and we have to accept it and find our peace about it.
Be aware, that there are people in this world who respect you and feel for you. Again, I think you are a great guy who (again) deserves happiness. And I am sure you will find it (somewhere in the messy life).
If it helps, make a vacation in Germany
Mitch
Hi OD, hope your day improved a little, and you and the boys had a nice time. I understand about the anger. I've had odd bursts of anger, but not that much on the whole (am I suppressing? IDK) but I've spoken to people who said they just did not know what to do with the rage they felt. And I thought of that when I read your earlier post.
I just wondered whether you and your therapist have looked at the anger together at all? And talked about ways of dealing with it? Perhaps that may help...
You know OD, I hate to see you in this awful sort of limbo with your W, and feeling unable to make a decision. I would love to see OD rise up to his full height - with no fear - and say W, I am doing this! Then I would read that post and cheer for you....(((OD)))
ps: are you off to Ceroc class soon?
rd no worries about asking about S15. We can't keep track of everything.
You're right, I am still attached too much but how do detach. I thought time would help. Maybe it does but her adultery is fairly new so perhaps that's the cause of my backsliding.
And I have read sandi's awesome WW threads.
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Cheers Mitch
We all deserve happiness. Every one of us who are standing for what's right.
I'd love to visit Germany again. I have so much time for Germany and her people. The only beer I drink is weissbier :-) We actually have friends in Berlin which we used to visit often but the main friend went to university with WW so I feel I can't go now.
Every one of us who are standing for what's right.
OD, just a quick observation. Could the above viewpoint be holding you back? To say that standing is right the right thing to do, suggests that it would be wrong not to stand. Maybe the reason why this soooo affects you still is because you are battling your own morals?
In my case, I am standing for what I want (to be married to H). There is a lot less anxiety in that position (have to confess though that IDK if there is an OW...but very plausible).
Toots, the first thing I said to my counsellor last week was that I'm so angry ... so yes :-)
We talked about why and the Kubler-Ross grief curve etc. I said I could handle it for the most part by practising mindfullness. It didn't work yesterday though.
Of my three options for living here, I'm leaning towards the middle one: we don't stay in the house at the same time after this week is done. But ... I'm also wondering if should just bite the bullet and get out.
No more Leroc until I'm back on the south coast a week on Tuesday I'm afraid. I'm looking after S15 this week.
ganb8te. Maybe. I don't believe in just giving up without trying everything first. I cannot do that now without WW agreeing, but she doesn't want to so it leaves me high and dry, frustrated and feeling impotent especially as it turns out I'm crap at DBing.
Hi old dog. Don't beat yourself up over bad DBing. It takes time and the acting as if is a huge thing You can only do what you can. Have you looked at relaxation techniques? Life can be very tough and unfair but we have to deal with it It's how we deal and that's why we came to this site. We want to be married to our WAS but we need time to accept " what is "
Stay strong mate. Take care. Rd
Here's a crazee thought you can stand and be happy.
You can stand and Do stuff. I kind of was for a long time. I kind of hoped that time wouldn't pass but it seems it kind of has as well.
I'm still out there doing stuff.
You can not really stand or keep a even money bet each way and be happy too. It's all about attitude and you need to make it first on the outside.
OD, The only bad DBing is no DBing. If what you do is not working, adjust it, tinker with it, change it or 180. It is a tool kit not just a hammer for hitting yourself on the head with. Use a different tool, save the hammer for another time.
Simples.......
V
BTW, I have some bad scars, mine went keloid, and I was given silicon gel and patches to soften them. It worked, no more painful scars. Just saying.
Here's a crazee thought you can stand and be happy.
You can stand and Do stuff. I kind of was for a long time. I kind of hoped that time wouldn't pass but it seems it kind of has as well.
I'm still out there doing stuff.
You can stand or not stand or keep a even money bet each way and be happy too. It's all about attitude and you need to make it first on the outside.
And it seems I'm very tired and scrambled after a very big weekend.
It not db to be miserable, it's about moving forward no matter what with a pma.
My xh1 always had a miserable attitude. Combine that with a I'm giving up on life, it was a dead duck, I couldn't live his life for him.
Miserable attidue and venting at your wife will put the no return nails in the coffin.
Try to keep things lighter.
Well there's been some movement in Chez Chien today. That's House of Dog to those non French speakers.
WW came home early to 'have a discussion'. I apologised for losing it with her Saturday and then said when I come home I don't want you here. To which she said that's a good idea, that's fine.
I then said I hate what you’re doing. I wake up every night and cry: still, ten months later. I don’t want to say anymore. I was feeling pretty emotional at this point and wanted to leave but she called me back and we did discuss some logistical points but only after a bit of venting and finger pointing from both sides.
So I will come back every other weekend and she will take herself off. This week we will alternate evenings looking after the kids. When she came home at lunchtime today, I went to the music/cofffee shop round the corner and I'll do that again for each day. I'm just waiting now for her to go to her book club this evening.
I have also been to see solicitor for a brief chat. If WW is true to her word that she doesn't want to screw me for every penny and we can keep it civil he is hopeful that any settlement, financial or access would be fair. It put my mind at ease a little as far as some of the horror stories you hear about the H losing everything. It felt horrible sitting there explaining how my marriage has fallen apart. He was very sympathetic, a nice bloke. What I didn't ask was how much are his rates. To get them to do a divorce would be £1200 including the £400 fee charged by well, I don't know. That's what it would cost if I did it alone.
You know I'm terrible at remembering convos so today I recorded it on my iPhone. Clever eh?
She's finally gone out. I can breathe again.
OD, I'm glad you and your W have come to an agreement on the weekends and so on. That's a step forward from the limbo you're in, and will hopefully make things easier when you are home with your boys.
I think you'll just have to get used to the fact that she will take herself off to be with OM. But it's no bad thing for them to spend time together - plenty of time to get on each other's nerves and so on. Things need to run their course and the passion and fantasy will ebb away if their A is like most A's.
In the meantime, I think GG is right. It would be great if your exchanges with your W could be more upbeat and pleasant. Now you have a plan, maybe you can just stick to logistics and pleasantries - no R talk. Like GG says, some of these convos are 'nail in the coffin' territory, and you don't want to be there.
Glad to hear you sounding more upbeat anyway OD....x
I don't think she'll ever return. In which case I never want to see her again. I don't even want to be in this house. It was never my home. When we first moved here I took that job down on the south coast almost immediately so it doesn't mean anything to me. It's rented, it's too small and now it's the place where she cast me off like some trifling amusement she's no longer interested in.
But on a positive note me and the boys just watched All You Need Is Cash, The Story of The Rutles. What a preFAB film :-)
I'm lying in bed thinking of the convo we had this morning and recalled this.
WW - OK I know you don’t want me to be here and it’s obviously too difficult for you to look at and OK, that’s fine but we cannot risk that (me swearing at her in anger - not good I know) happening again and the children looking at it and that being their experience.
OD - Why not, it happens?
WW - Yeah it does happen because …
OD - They’ve got to find out.
WW - Yeah OK, but I lived it when I was a kid.
OD - So why are you doing it now?
WW - No it’s not about that.
OD - Yes it is. You’ve chosen this way. You’ve chosen to do this. You’ve decided this is what you’re doing. It’s your choice.
WW - I’m not going down this route.
OD - It is entirely your choice.
WW - It is something that has happened. It’s a dynamic between the two of us that had happened. I’ve had the bollox to come out and say no this isn’t enough.
OD - You haven’t had the bollox to fix it. You just left it and left it and left it and than haven’t had the bollox to try and do something about it.
WW - At intervals throughout the marriage I’ve said …
OD - Said. We didn’t do anything about it.
WW - Yeah I went to therapy once.
OD - That didn’t work out too well because it wasn’t the right therapist it didn’t …
WW - Oh god OD how many times have I had this conversation? I’m not having this conversation.
OD - No, I don’t want it.
I got drawn into it a bit rather than STFU. And then I remembered and changed it abruptly to logistical arrangements.
But the interesting thing is her saying she lived it as a kid. Her elder brother was the apple of his mother's eye. He could do no wrong which made their father very jealous. Enough to take it out on her brother and have an affair (I think that's right). They survived the crisis and are still together. And yet she still can't see that you can work things out.
OD... sorry you had that experience. But you've got to start letting go. Why would she want to work it out with someone who cuts her off, doesn't listen, dismisses her feelings? If you read this exchange from a different perspective, that's what you've done.
Work on you, OD. Become someone only a fool would leave. You can do this. We're rooting for you.
Another gem from this morning's convo.
WW - Yeah, clearly you are angry. I know that you are angry, I know that you are hurt. Don’t think ever that I don’t know that you are hurt. Don’t think that it’s not going to stay with me. Don’t think that I’m OK with you being hurt. Do not …
OD - Seems like it.
WW - No.
OD - Seems like you couldn’t give a flying f*** about me.
WW - No it’s not that. It is not that. It’s not that and that is why I really really wanted to try to be able to have some communal life together.
OD - No, that’s not going to happen.
WW - And it’s not going to happen and it was naive. But that’s not me thinking I don’t give a f*** about this person.
OD - You don’t.
WW - Well you don’t know what I think or what I feel.
OD - No, that’s true.
And then back to more logistical stuff.
Now, 17 hours later I'm thinking validation. I could have said "I'm sorry you're upset you have hurt me so much, that it's staying with you and that you're not OK with me being hurt. It must be hard for you to see me in so much pain".
That would have been funny.
Yeah I know Claire. I'm so bad at DBing ... still. I don't think I'll ever be able to do it.
I am going to work on me though. And I'm avoiding her as much as possible until I can STFU.
Yeah I know Claire. I'm so bad at DBing ... still. I don't think I'll ever be able to do it.
Um... try to spin that around. the only way to get better at something is to actually practice it, and for that, you have to have the emotional and intellectual strength to pick yourself up when you fail and get back at it.
no one ever got good at something by giving up on it.
Right now I think what's the point, she's gone and I'm sure she won't come back even if I do become the man only a fool would leave.
Maybe in the morning it'll be sunny. Sounds very stormy out there now though.
OD - Seems like you couldn't give a flying f*** about me.
I just read part of your stitch. You're feeding her ego with these lines... like you can't live without her; which isn't true.
You're letting her cake eat emotionally. The point you need to focus on is getting your strength up and be a man.
Try doing something simple like putting a rubber band on your wrist and every time you want to talk up, you snap it... retrain your brain. You're caught in your script of reacting.
Hey Sherman, a new voice on my thread. Thanks for taking the time to come by.
I've tried the rubber band technique actually and had partial success. I had to use my last one for a bike repair so I'll have to find another.
I'm a 'nice guy'. That's a big problem. I'll have to re-read NMMNG. I'm trying to get an European online group going at the NMMNG forum.
And I have trouble detaching. I think it is coming but painfully slowly.
Husband Haven has some good ideas too. Google it.
Thanks Sherman. I just downloaded the eBook.
Yeah I know Claire. I'm so bad at DBing ... still. I don't think I'll ever be able to do it.
Um... try to spin that around. the only way to get better at something is to actually practice it, and for that, you have to have the emotional and intellectual strength to pick yourself up when you fail and get back at it.
no one ever got good at something by giving up on it.
I really like this reframing Claire. Wonderful, thank you. Pay attention OD that is three posts plus Sherman and his band.
V
Yeah I know Claire. I'm so bad at DBing ... still. I don't think I'll ever be able to do it.
Um... try to spin that around. the only way to get better at something is to actually practice it, and for that, you have to have the emotional and intellectual strength to pick yourself up when you fail and get back at it.
no one ever got good at something by giving up on it.
Yes. I tell that to the boys all the time. Time for some role modelling then.
There ya go! Show don't tell!
I just got a text from WW. She's been made redundant!
I replied sorry to hear that.
But what now? That throws the cat among the pigeons.
Oh gosh OD - sorry to hear that. Isn't OM her boss? Did he make her redundant?!
I would validate and purely discuss logistics...(((OD)))
OM is her ex boss at a previous position she left 18 months ago.
Validate. Yes, but I doubt she'll discuss it. I barely know what she does anyway as she's always been very reluctant to tell me anything about what she does. Just the bare minimum despite me asking several times over the past 18 months. I know what she does as far as job description goes of course; after all it was me that found the job for her. How's that for proactivity love? Oh you forgot about that didn't you? But I know nothing about what she does day to day, interactions with colleagues , never met any of them, don't even know any of their names. Just part of the pulling back she implemented.
Part of me selfishly thinks ha ha (Nelson Muntz style), I hope you enjoy signing on the dole like I had to a couple of times. Another part thinks oh **** because she won't get any housing benefit or council tax benefit due to our particular financial situation.
She's already decided to spend money going to see her parents this Easter. Er hello? You can't afford to do this now. And she hasn't paid her share into the joint account this month yet.
Can you start a new thread, so we can link this one.
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