I'll post the link later.
Still struggling with the feeling of having gone down the rabbit hole/through the looking glass. It never occurred to me that he'd be willing to abandon me this way. That we wouldn't be friends that he could hurt me and the kids like this. It's not like BD, but I'm feeling my heart as broken. Feeling sad & anxious.
I saw the lawyer again yesterday and moved things along a bit. I have housing to dos in front of me and I'm scared of making a mistake. There's a vibe at the office that's tense after a small snafu last week and my coworker keeps hinting someone could get fired. It was a tiny snafu but I'm terrified (also I wasn't wrong).
Overall this week is going poorly and I'm a bit down.
Maybell, sorry you are down. Wishing you good luck at work and with the house stuff.
Hi Maybell,
Just wanted to say also I'm sorry you are having a tough week. I know how stressful a tense office environment can be, even without all the other things you're dealing with. Hang in there. We're all here for you!
Hugs Maybell.
I know this all stinks. You are strong and you wil come out shining on the other side.. I hope your spirits lift soon
Thanks y'all.
I went out with a few friends tonight and got to know a few acquaintances better. It always surprises me how people seem to know and like me even if I've barely met them. It's a big mood lifter and I appreciate not being invisible.
Interesting... D11 and I had two counseling appointments and she has settled down a lot. STBX had the kids tonight and he said he wants her to have a device again. I put my foot down and said NO. She has access to one when I know she's going to be in circumstances where she needs it for communicating and she has the means to listen to music. Then she turns it back in to me. He pushed back some and I said no, she's finally becoming almost pleasant again. It will not happen any time soon.
I'm sure he just wants to be able to text her and be in touch. I feel badly if he actually misses the kids... But I feel like if he'd wanted to parent them he'd try more than just texting them. I'm not going to sabotage the quality of my home life by permitting open season on electronics again. That way madness lies.
I also have a crazy eye allergy going on. They are literally glowing pink where they should be white, which makes the light green part pop out in a way that I'm sure looks very eerie. And they itch like mad. Good times.
I've been collecting quotes. These are from memory so pardon if they're not quite exact:
"We are all lying in the sewer. It's just that some of us are looking at the stars ."
-- Oscar Wilde
"We didn't lose the game. We just ran out of time."
-- Vince Lombardi
Great quotes, Maybell! Those are two geniuses
You definitely have a sparkle about you. It's obvious from all of the people that flock to you hear, to give to and receive from you. Glad to know that it's corroborated IRL.
How did WAH respond to you denying electronics for D11?
Good for you Maybell on putting your foot down. I like your parenting philosophy with the electronics. My children are still quite small, but it's a good reminder for me to be more firm even now--with the TV, the Leap Pad and letting the kids play with my phone. That is where the madness starts. I have a lot to learn from you as a mom!
Hey, MB...
That's pretty awesome that you stepped up to your H and stated your position on giving her a cell phone/tablet. Good rationale there, and good approach.
I'm sure he just wants to be able to text her and be in touch. I feel badly if he actually misses the kids... But I feel like if he'd wanted to parent them he'd try more than just texting them.
Exactly. It wasn't *that* long ago that texting wasn't the main form of communicating with someone. Especially if it's a substitute for the real thing.
Last Friday, I took my D18 to Noodles for dinner on our way to church. As we were leaving, I looked around and it kind of made me sick at what I saw. There were multiple tables of people who were seated at a table together but they were eating and texting. Really! WTF?????? Why not go have dinner with your cell phone and text those people? I realized that although my D18 is nonverbal and can't text, so it doesn't apply to her, I'm going to insist on all my dinners with people to be cell phone free zones. Even me. It's awful.
So I tip my hat to you on making every attempt at keeping your kids tethered. I really applaud you on that.
I can't imagine you being invisible, Maybell. I'm not at all surprised that people like you and are drawn to you. So take that!
Betsey
Thank you, Card, Lorelai, and Betsey!
He was disappointed that I said no to the electronics. Beyond that I couldn't read him, but I don't care. He doesn't have to live with the consequences of unlimited electronics. I notice also that he hasn't made ANY effort to compensate for the limitations I've placed on devices either. Not even by trying to FaceTime them through my phone or iPad.
My co-worker said that she thought he was doing as well as he is equipped to do, which I acknowledge is probably true even while I don't care to be OK with that. The Thanksgiving after I found out about the A, his sister and her husband (STBX's best friend since middle school) were laughing about the difference between my in-laws' family gatherings and the husband's family gatherings. At my in-laws' gatherings everybody stands around watching TV or football and drinking beer and wine. At the other family's gatherings people play games, sing songs together, listen to the talented musicians in their family play instruments, etc. They thought it was funny.
Now that I'm living with the consequences of those differences, I don't see it as funny. I see it as really sad. It is robbing my kids of their dad and their dad of his kids. But... no longer my monkey or my circus.
I've been thinking about the summer scheduling conflict we have WRT D11 and I've decided... one of the things the therapist said is that she's really starved for my undivided attention. So if STBX sticks with his decision to keep his plans, take the boys down to visit his family and fly D11 back (her missing the family vacation time), then I'm going to let that happen without objection. I'm going to take advantage of the one-on-one time with her and see if we can't have a ton of fun together, girls on the town without the boys.
However, I'm going to make HIM explain to her why he won't be spending vacation time with her this year. Perhaps that will make him think a little bit. She needs him too.
I talked to a mortgage person today and was more specific about my conversation with the realtor. Renting for a year or two is starting to look likely. That would be disappointing but, well, you can't have everything. I worry that D11 will have gone through her childhood a little too much like mine, where she couldn't feel settled and get a base beneath her till she's a teenager (and even then I didn't feel like I had a base, but that's a different story...) This is not the life I wanted for her. SO, SO not the life I wanted for her. If she could only know how far short I've fallen in what I thought I'd be able to give her when she was born... well, she'd probably use it against me and try to extort electronic devices out of me in exchange, so it's just as well she doesn't know.
Happy Thursday!!!
So much anxiety this morning. Not enough exercise in my life. I feel constantly behind. The babysitter does not fill me with confidence and I'm worried there. The mortgage woman was not encouraging about getting a mortgage soon -- I will likely have to rent for a year. Anxiety in my job. There's a lot of fear and a sense of failure welling up in me. I don't feel remotely good enough.
I also feel exposed and vulnerable at the thought of leading my family without the support of a loving spouse. I'm scared to death of the next 15 years of my life even while I think I can handle it. I am very angry at STBX's selfishness. I may get slapped down for it but I feel like it is objectively Wrong to make the choices he made -- as wrong as stealing is. I trusted him with all my heart and he PUT me in this mess. Knowingly chose to put me and the kids here. I'm feeling more than one kind of hurt.
Many people have said I should just find a nice rental and move, tell STBX to deal with selling this house and move on. Part of me agrees. The Nice Girl kicks back and says no, this has been your home, how can you be so callous towards this place that was the scene of so much intensity in your life?
How could one person do this to another? How could he inflict all this on me???
Wow, it's hard to hear how much pain you're in this morning, Maybell. I won't respond point-for-point because I know you know many of the answers, in your heart. I know that because you've wisely advised me when I've posted similar things.
Keep in mind - you don't have to figure out the next 15 years in one day! That would scare me to think about that, too
I know it's hard for you to see through all of the muck being heaved on you lately, but you're doing an amazing job at life right now. You're focused on the shortcomings (failed M, blow-ups with D11, AWOL WAH, etc.), but we've all been inspired by your victories (restarting a career, steadily piecing together a parenting plan for D11, still being a charismatic, attractive person to those around you IRL who aren't completely self-absorbed). Everyone on this planet has victories and failures everyday. In that way, we're all the same. The question is, which will you focus on? That is where you have a choice, even though it's impossible not to be affected by the trauma.
Can you find one thing today that you can focus on that gives you joy, even for 5 minutes? I had some nasty thoughts this morning about WAW and her A. I had to force myself to think of something joyous. I settled on how D2 has the cutest lisp right now. I've been enjoying it lately because I just finally turned her carseat to forward facing. Now I can see her face in the mirror, and she can see stop signs coming. "Thtop thign daddy! Thtop at the thtop thign!"
Take care
today! Emphasis on today.
I think Card is right Maybell. Stick to what's happening this week, or until the end of the month. Anything else? Well, that's later and I'll deal with it then...
Maybe cut yourself a bit of slack. You don't have to sort and decide on everything right now. You can maybe 'drift' for a few days if you want to. Meditate.
There are also some victim phrases in there. Maybe something else to think about. We know Maybell isn't a victim. She's a strong, self-assured and lovely woman...
Hope tomorrow is better....((Maybell))
I was talking to my counsellor the other day about the light at the end of the tunnel. I said I couldn't see it ... but I know it's there.
As Card & Toots have said do not think about the future just now. In fact any big things that come up, chunk 'em down. DB says that, Feel the Fear says that, even Tony Robbins says that. I know it's not easy, I'm terrible at it.
And don't forget you are a wonderful person and a fab mother. I'm sure I speak for everyone on here when I say we all love what you have to say on here and we are sorry you're having a rough time of it.
C'mon girl, get with the program. Do something radical that will shift your train of thought for a while.
Old Dog xx
Got myself up early this morning and made scones for breakfast for the kids.
Hustled the boys out the door early so I could walk them to school and myself to work -- exercise for the day, check. Already feeling the benefit of that little bit of movement.
Got into the office and immediately dealt with the thing that was most bothering me -- which miraculously resolved as I was dealing with it. Hooray!
I've gotten my head around the likelihood that things will be challenging for a little while longer than I'd hoped, and if that's how it plays out, well, most likely there will be unexpected bonuses along the way to compensate.
All will be well.
Hey Maybell, glad you are feeling more positive. We know this ride is up and down, nice to see you on an up.
Excellent. I'm proud of you Maybell.
When you can't trust people to be objective and it's not a good question to ask a paid professional, where do you go for a wise, objective sounding board on important decisions?
I've identified a couple of rentals that MIGHT be good options for the next year or two but I'm hesitant to start moving these steps forward. I'm not really ready to move, but seriously, will I ever be?
I envy those with a helpful parent or other relative who can talk through these decisions with them. I have tons of friends and various advisors but none feels like the right person to discuss this particular issue. (One might be but she's overwhelmed with her own life at the moment.).
Guess it's time to pull up my BGP and make my own decisions, for better or worse.
BTW, my co-worker said one of these things she does to "get her sassy back" is to have a drawer full of sassy undies for the days when she needs a boost. So I intend to update my wardrobe.
Maybell - Are there any older folks at your church that you can turn to for this type of thing? Perhaps your pastor can hook you up.
My experience may be a little skewed, I go to an old school Lutheran church where the average age is probably about 75 (I prefer the traditional music - and I like going with my parents).I look around the sanctuary sometimes and think what a wealth of experience is sitting under that roof.
Maybell, you are always welcome to lean on the boards as well for feedback with regard to finding a new place. I've been sad about letting go of my own house, mainly because I worked so hard to get it and fix it up, but I'm also excited about the prospect of a place of my own. I hope the next step will be a positive adventure for you!
I'm thinking of hard core logistics like timing. I think it's time to start moving forward -- be prepared to move no later than May 1st and list the house at that time. The mortgage looks like I need to let time pass before I can qualify and a few other things need to be put in place with the settlement, so getting myself into a rental by May is probably the most comfortable course of action for now. It means I'll have to move twice but I don't think that's avoidable.
Fortunately the kids are taking all this as an adventure.
He's such a jerk. I wouldn't have needed to move at all till I wanted to if we'd just rented instead of buying when we moved here. Why didn't I insist? I rarely insisted on anything with him. My gut is smarter than I am. GAH.
Kid activity today means I have to spend half the day with STBX including probably lunch. I am so, so disgusted with him for disrupting our lives so profoundly while he sits back and plays video games. It feels like a ten ton weight in my chest. I wish I didn't have to see him at all while I'm going through this. He looks at me like he wishes I'd be friendly to him and I just want him to leave me alone so I can get on with things. I wasn't perfect, but I shouldn't have had to be. I'm not a mind-reader. I wish I didn't have to carry all this by myself because I married a shallow jerk.
I am sorry you have to experience this. Try your best to ignore your shallow husband. My suggestion is to focus on your kids. I would only talk to him about kid related issues only. I know it will be hard. You can do this!
I would also be upbeat and happy while you have to share the day with him. I would not show any emotion towards him at all except that you are fine without him.
Let us know how it turns out.
Best - Foolish
You got this Maybell, be the strong, amazing woman we all KNOW you are!
Yesterday went POORLY. I couldn't look at him or talk to him. He kept sitting next to me and it made me sick to be near him. I am SO disgusted with him.
I know I have to live through my anger. It's one of the unavoidable stages of grief. But I'd like to navigate it more gracefully so that everything else in my life is easier. It was hard to recover from being around him so much. I'd like to be more impervious to his presence. I'd like to get to acceptance and meh. I'm tired of him having this power over my emotions. Time to take it back.
There is a book on the NYTimes bestseller about Decluttering your home. It says to only keep the things that give you joy. Like Edith Wharton's criteria of having in your home only those things you feel to be beautiful or know to be useful. My mission for the next six weeks is to apply those standards to my home systematically. So when I move into my new home I can take only those things that make my home feel tranquil and welcoming, and as little as possible of what makes me feel overwhelmed. And as I do that physical exercise I'll try it emotionally as well. I need to live MY life, not a crippled version of our old life.
Wishing you all peace, hugs, and smiles on this almost-spring Sunday.
Maybell,
I'm sorry you are hurting. I get it. For a while, I found myself being sort of "phony" nice to WAH. Hopefully in a not very obvious way, but I knew in my heart I was acting. And then, when he left, I would give him a not - so - nice gesture on my side of the door, mutter "@$$ h0le " under my breath, and then put that anger in a separate compartment in my mind and move on.
And now...I don't feel that intense anger so often. But it took a while.
Maybell...I'm there with you. Sometimes I feel like I've gotten to "meh" about my WAW, but I think I'm just really good at repressing anger.
This morning. Sunday morning. My mom came to visit and spent the night last night. We woke up this morning and we had TWO adults taking care of the kids. I was able to read in bed with a cup of coffee for a few minutes. Then we had some adult conversation with the kids joining in and learning from it.
The most important thing in my life was having a partner that I could do this with daily. Instead I see my kids 4 days out of 14 and they get to model themselves after a broken marriage. I feel my WAW has done irreconcilable harm to my life and the life of my children. And if I want to borrow trouble from the future I could speculate that she'll be pregnant again soon, or will be shacking up with a guy with his own kids, etc. At some point I'll probably be in a future M, and we'll have a very goofy family tree with step relatives, etc. We'll make it work, but I am still grieving the loss of the family we had, and I think it is beyond criminal that someone breaks it up.
Yes, the M was bad, but you stick it out. Maybe in 2 years it would've felt different. If your only two alternatives are a bad M and a good M eventually you might make it good, when you throw in a "blow up the family and search for happiness in alcohol, flings, and rediscovery of your life" then your M doesn't have a chance. I went through a MLC when I was 31 and REALLY had trouble sticking to the M, but I sucked it up because I GOT this. I'm devastated that she didn't, with the loss that resulted, and still overcome with anger that she would make that choice. Yes, I contributed to a bad M. But to me that feels like saying I provoked someone that murdered my family. The harm is so disproportionate. I want to grow from my failings, but I did NOT make those choices.
I don't feel that anger often because as you said I don't want to give her that power, so I usually just take a breathe and go back to what I was doing. Yes, I will still be a good dad, I will be a good H to someone. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't consider WAS's right there with the Nazi's as far as some of the worst people that ever walked the planet.
That means I still have some work to do on myself. That is GOOD. That means that as I work through this and grow as a person, I won't always have to carry this much resentment. I plan on getting some books on forgiveness. I get that it only hurts me. And frankly she is out of my life, so it is up to me what type of energy I want to stew in all day. But I am trying to be more honest about my feelings so I can become better at dealing with them.
If anyone has any good book recommendations for forgiveness and acceptance please send them to us!
And Maybell...you're not alone. Keep making good choices and steering towards acceptance. You'll get there and you can still have a pretty good life in the meantime as well!
I was thinking about my last post. One thing that has bothered me is when people try to "find the positives" in the situation, or talk about how I will find love again, etc.
After thinking about it, I feel like my wife was murdered. And I feel like my WAW was the killer.
Maybe that is a better way to explain how I feel about her. And maybe that is a better way to feel explain about how I feel about the situation.
You wouldn't tell someone who's wife got murdered that "they deserved better", or "good things were around the corner". You'd acknowledge that there are things so terrible they shouldn't happen in the world, and it will never be ok. That while life goes on and must be celebrated, it will always be a loss so horrible it will change the survivor's life forever.
And you wouldn't expect someone to just "get over it" and not be emotionally impacted by the person that pulled the trigger. While it is noble to aspire to forgiveness, some things are so horrible they are unforgivable. The only reason that destroying a family should be forgiven is that forgiveness is a gift to the forgiver.
That's how strongly I feel about this. Maybe I'm dramatic. But maybe if more people put a similar value on M we wouldn't need these forums...
Maybell,
I am feeling exactly the same thing -- disgusted by WAH. Our lives are disruptive, but he is happily cruising along, leaving a path of destruction and tears in his wake. All the more reason to get away from him and stay away. NC is the only thing that helps me. I try to be professional toward my H while managing the business of the dissolution process, but I am hating him every second. The anger is good for helping me to see him for who he really is, for not wanting him back and moving on with my life. Be glad for that. It makes it easier. The anger will pass and you will reach meh.
I'm ok when he's not around. It's when I have to interact with him, like yesterday, that I struggle so hard. Not because I want him back but because I am so disgusted with him.
Zues, I've been thinking about your murder analogy. I agree with some of what you said -- about being forever marked by this experience and wanting the loss to be validated. In my case, however, I DO feel I've been validated. And that the closer I look at my marriage the more signs I see that he was never as committed as I was. He liked the status of Family Man a lot more than the life. He wasn't murdered by an alien so much as revealed for his true self ("Who is Kaiser Sozé?")
We had a super busy weekend and by the time things shut down this afternoon the kids were SPENT. They started down the tantrum road but I stopped us all, held a quick family meeting, and showed them the light at the end of the tunnel. S9 had the hardest time because he lost a privilege that was very important to him. I was proud that I enforced my boundary with him, and then when it was done he and I had a talk about how to communicate effectively. I would not have had the knowledge necessary to teach that lesson if we hadn't lost my husband. That's a pretty enormous silver lining.
I am in recovery from parenting from a place of fear. I don't feel that fear with my kids so much anymore. It makes a big difference in how quickly these little crises get settled. I hope that some day I feel that peace and strength in my heart that I will find a strong loving partner for myself some day. I look forward to exploring that when I have moved through this experience. I feel less impatience and more hope than I've done in a very long time. But I still worry that a great marriage like that might not be in my future.
Patience, patience, faith and baby steps.
Yesterday went POORLY. I couldn't look at him or talk to him. He kept sitting next to me and it made me sick to be near him. I am SO disgusted with him.
I know I have to live through my anger. It's one of the unavoidable stages of grief. But I'd like to navigate it more gracefully so that everything else in my life is easier. It was hard to recover from being around him so much. I'd like to be more impervious to his presence. I'd like to get to acceptance and meh. I'm tired of him having this power over my emotions. Time to take it back.
There is a book on the NYTimes bestseller about Decluttering your home. It says to only keep the things that give you joy. Like Edith Wharton's criteria of having in your home only those things you feel to be beautiful or know to be useful. My mission for the next six weeks is to apply those standards to my home systematically. So when I move into my new home I can take only those things that make my home feel tranquil and welcoming, and as little as possible of what makes me feel overwhelmed. And as I do that physical exercise I'll try it emotionally as well. I need to live MY life, not a crippled version of our old life.
Wishing you all peace, hugs, and smiles on this almost-spring Sunday.
Hey, I read that book and followed it. The hardest part for me was the photos of my kids growing up, knowing which to let go. It's a process but it's been good for me. I live in a small home and have always been on top of weeding out clutter. The book took it to another level.
About that anger, why not express that to your H?
Sometimes here on these boards it seems people get a message that they should never be angry with the WAS or express that anger when I think the real message should be to not ACT out of anger, or overreact out of anger and to be clear about where the anger comes from.
In the early days just after BD it's important to keep a lid on things cause everyone is hyperemotional.
Anger is an honest emotion in reaction to a threat or an injury. What if you told him "It's hard for me to communicate with you/be around you because I have a lot of anger about what's happened to my family. You've not always been honest with me in the past and I can't trust you right now" or whatever is the root of the anger. Then add whatever you need to say about how much time you spend with him. Don't keep carrying the anger.
I too am hugely upset at my situation. Everyone keeps telling me to let go of the anger, but I am just not there. I don't know if I will ever be there. Will this make me a bitter old lady? Perhaps, but until I can move past it on my own, it is just there.
Yes, I have a IC and we talk about this all the time. I don't know if it helps of not. All I know is that I seem to be stuck in this place and I am so very tired of feeling this way. It is exhausting right?
Carry on!
And again, be a bit kinder and gentler with yourself.
Perfection is an unattainable goal.
There a few single decisions that will actually ruin your life, so relax a bit if you can.
Do you see how things seems to be working our for you as time goes along? Maybe renting a house is a good thing, no maintenance headaches.
Things with D11 seem to be progressing.
MB is finding herself.
Why not let H have the responsibility for selling the house?
I think the disgust you feel is resentment. Resentment is pent up anger.
I agree with others. It is healthy to express your anger. I expressed mine privately for a long time. Once I had a better handle on it I expressed it to my WW. In my sitch I saw her about 4 times a week at basketball games. Until I started leting go of that anger/resentment it was extremely difficult to be in the same room with her.
Well, two weeks ago I told him I hated him and that I hated what he had done to our family, and also that I was disappointed and disgusted that this is the person he chooses to be. Also that I was horrified at having to coparent through D11's really difficult behavior with someone I couldn't trust. So I'm pretty sure he knows I'm angry and also exactly why. (BTW, about the trust he said "You can trust me on this," but I'd had to wait almost an hour for him to show up because he was at a dinner.)
It's official I'm going to have to rent for a year or maybe two, so I'm spreading the word as loud as I can about renting in the hopes that an unlisted option surfaces. D11 is starting to demonstrate some anxiety about the quality of our current options so it would be good if something turns up soon. I'll also be reading up on helping her cope with her anxiety.
OK, I just pop in and out so I miss things.
I hope you didn't read that as snark. It wasn't intended to be. I honestly do think I need to start working on letting go more and releasing what was into the ether.
I was thinking back earlier today and another memory popped into my mind. He'd decided he wanted to do a year abroad in Australia but I was still in grad school with another year of classes to go. I asked him to wait the year till I finished the class work and he got very agitated. I suggested we go snuggle together to talk it through and he went, reluctantly, but when I tried gently to make my case for the extra year he got really angry and stood up and walked out, saying "Now I feel REALLY trapped." Of course I was really hurt (because at was such a serious thing to say) but when I tried to get him to explain himself he just shut down.
Looking back, it seems clear I should never have trusted my life to him. I think maybe he was pretty plain that although he said he loved me first, although he surprised me with the engagement ring, although it seemed like it was mutual agreement all along... Maybe it really wasn't. Like, maybe he wanted people to think of him as a grown up guy with a wife and everything, but really he never wanted anything more but for his glory days to stretch in forever.
I need to stop looking back. I never knew what I really wanted till now. Now I can see what I want very clearly, and it is within reach if I work at it. Marriage to STBX was apparently the proving ground for me to see myself a little more clearly.
Good for you, Maybell. Being able to see yourself clearly is just one of the positive outcomes that can come from an otherwise $hitty situation. I too was married to a hologram who liked the "credibility" of the marriage and family life, without putting any work into it. I can see that clearly now. Why didn't I ever see it before?
Hey Maybell - When you say you are going to need to rent for a year, is that because you need to be able to have child support in place for a year in order to be able to qualify for a mortgage?
If that's the case - I will just throw it out there that I think it would be totally reasonable for you to ask your STBX to co sign on a mortgage now to help you qualify. Then you can assume the mortgage on your own in about a year (there's a fee - and you have to make sure the mortgage you get is assumable). That's more or less what I did - I refinanced the house shortly after BD to get expenses down and will assume it alone once the year is up and I can count my child support as income.
If your STBX is sincere about wanting to help out and be reasonable - this would be a way he could help his children avoid multiple moves in the next few years. If he worries about being "stuck" on the mortgage -I'm sure the lawyers can come up with some legalese.
Sorry if this isn't the case - just wanted to throw it out there as an option.
Well, he just sent me a LONG email asking me to leave the lawyers out of it so all things considered I'd rather just be utterly divorced from him. He has demonstrated a willingness to lie casually when it suits him and also that he doesn't have my best interests at heart (or at arms length either) so I'd rather rely on him as little as possible.
Commiserating, Maybell. They are just so limited. I'm starting to think that, as difficult and painful as this is, the universe is telling me that this is what is best for me. If our WAH are this way, now, and after our best DB efforts, what long term future would the marriage really have.
They are who they are. Becoming a parent and spouse forces you to grow up and put someone else first. It is not easy, and not for all.
When we respond to things we're coming from wherever we are. I try not to take responses personally, even if it was meant to be snarky, it's all good.
Hope that makes sense.
raliced's idea is worth considering. Don't let your anger with him get in the way of something that might be beneficial to you and the kids. Take some time to think about it.
There are pros and cons to leaving the attorneys out of it. Consider it carefully.
renting is a good short term option. If you are trying to get things untangled with H, having him sign on a mortgage might not be the best idea. However, if your ideal home falls into your lap, it is an idea that could work.
Labug, don't mean to hijack but could definitely use your perspective on my thread if you get a chance. I would appreciate it so much.
I will not have STBX on my mortgage. I don't think he'd qualify anyway. I have looked carefully into all this and the alimony & child support will count against him in the debt-income ratio. That plus his existing rent, which is very high as swank downtown bachelor pads don't come cheap even in this little town, will put even my mortgage out of his range. (his rent is about the same as my mortgage payment would be. If I could get one.)
Today was rough. I can not go without a lawyer in this divorce. STBX is a knowledgeable fellow with a lot going on and a demonstrated will to lie and manipulate me to get his way. My lawyer is doing due diligence at his business to verify STBX's employment contract which I don't have and wouldn't understand if I did, and STBX was complaining that it was "humiliating" to him to have those questions raised. He wanted me to call off the attorney and trust everything he says about complicated compensation agreements that I don't understand at all. Even the email in which he promised to be fair and reasonable suggested that HE keep the largest asset in question and administer it himself "for the kids' benefit." Then my lawyer forwarded a string of emails to me in which it was clear STBX was trying to manipulate my L to accepting his word for all that without verification. Then STBX called me because it's his night with the kids and he didn't know where they were (he could have if he'd looked at the calendar or called the babysitter or asked me when he arranged to take the kids tonight, but he didn't; he just took it for granted that everyone would be where he decided they would be). And in the call he basically accused me of wasting "the kids'" money and told me that my L is a shark and "he knows that type" and that the guy was just racking up fees to scr#w us. (He's not, you should see how piddly my case has been thus far).
STBX makes 10x more than I do. And he's just 40. My salary isn't enough to pay for childcare plus the grocery bill. No WAY am I going to bat face to face with him. I'm trusting, I'm loving, maybe I'm even sometimes a little naive, but I'm not flat-out stupid. I need someone who understands all this stuff and is motivated to stand up for me.
I told STBX that I don't trust him ONE LITTLE BIT and that I needed someone knowledgeable to keep an eye on my best interests. He was angry and tried to push it and I just said no. I'm not his wife anymore. I don't have to be a team player. This is what "every man for himself" feels like. He just never knew it before.
I know this isn't DB but I've been holding this garbage in all day and I feel sick. I feel like STBX is targeting me unfairly just for having been his wife when he was tired of being married and I'm supposed to just lie down and accept yet MORE cr@p from him after already taking SO MUCH and that I'm going to start hearing a lot of fight from him because I won't roll over and do what he says.
I have a life I have to plan for myself. I have a life I have to plan for my kids. I fully expect him to move (far) away from our town before D11 is even driving (he's practically come out and said he would). I've already spent 17 years at his mercy. I don't want to trust my future to his lies and self-interest too.
Thank you for listening to my vent. This is not how things should be. I don't even care what happens to him, if the karma bus finds him or not. As far as I'm concerned, he's cheating himself out of a lovely life with wonderful people and exciting adventures and the karma bus has hit him already. He just can't tell.
GRRRRRRRRRR.
Maybell, it's so strange that these men have become nearly unrecognizable.
Hang in there. I'm glad you've got a good support team. I think you are right not to trust him at his word. This situation makes people do wacky things out of their own fear.
It's a bit eery how our sitch have followed such a similar pattern. Now, I often shake my head in wonder and pity thinking about my STBX (time to start calling him that.)
There may be no more divorce busting for us, but there is certainly kick-@$$ life-making. A lot of the same rules apply.
(((Maybell)))
Actually, on the L thing STBX is being pretty recognizable. He always thinks of other experts as charlatans waiting to defraud gullible people of their money and congratulates himself on being above all that. In giving me a hard time about it he's practically calling me an inflammatory sheeple.
I do find it interesting how similar our two sitches are. Maybe because we're both relative old-timers at this?
I'm a lot older than you. Don't complain, whipper snapper.
by "a lot" you mean "not much at all"! Gotta update my signature, since I'm such an old timer at this that a birthday has come and gone.
Tehehe.. I have to chuckle because I do kind of think STBX's L took advantage of him and he was pretty gullible. He said he was hiring someone just to write the settlement agreement but somehow now she's doing his financial disclosure for him, running documents to the courthouse (and mailing them to me!) and all sorts of other administrative work that he is perfectly capable of on his own. And then he complained about the bill and how he probably won't get any refund from his retainer (he put down $3000 and was under the impression from his lawyer that it would take under $1000 but now most of it is gone). Silly him! Oh well, his money, not my money or any kid's money going down the drain.
I do sometimes wonder what happened to some of the people that posted back when I was first on here (or you both were first on here) and then they just disappeared... like 3boyzmom, bluesgal, artsy, there was a hope with some different numbers, too.
I think I've come to some similar conclusions - my STBX is just really not capable at this point of the work and effort it takes to be in an M or serious R. And really, who wants to stay in an M where the other person is only looking out for #1 (themselves)?
Still got you beat -- mine is in two weeks and I'll be 43. And while we're at it, my BD was three months earlier than yours. Take that!!! LOL.
happy almost-birthday! what do you have planned??
Haven't planned anything yet. It falls midweek so it will probably end up being an eight-day celebration.
Still got you beat -- mine is in two weeks and I'll be 43. Take that!!! LOL.
Are we having a who's oldest contest? What do I win?????
Elder status.
Well, I have nothing useful to add here, so take that!
Thanks, MB. Maybe I'll have that put on a t-shirt!
Last week I went to a blues fest with a meet-up group, and met a lady that I took to be about 10 years older than me. She asked if I was in any other groups and I mentioned one that has "over-40" in the name. She told me I didn't look old enough to be in that group. I told her I loved her. Ha!!!!!
Elder Status!!
I win, I win, I win! tee hee hee.
Proud to be a crone!
I will not have STBX on my mortgage. I don't think he'd qualify anyway. I have looked carefully into all this and the alimony & child support will count against him in the debt-income ratio. That plus his existing rent, which is very high as swank downtown bachelor pads don't come cheap even in this little town, will put even my mortgage out of his range. (his rent is about the same as my mortgage payment would be. If I could get one.)
Today was rough. I can not go without a lawyer in this divorce. STBX is a knowledgeable fellow with a lot going on and a demonstrated will to lie and manipulate me to get his way. My lawyer is doing due diligence at his business to verify STBX's employment contract which I don't have and wouldn't understand if I did, and STBX was complaining that it was "humiliating" to him to have those questions raised. He wanted me to call off the attorney and trust everything he says about complicated compensation agreements that I don't understand at all. Even the email in which he promised to be fair and reasonable suggested that HE keep the largest asset in question and administer it himself "for the kids' benefit." Then my lawyer forwarded a string of emails to me in which it was clear STBX was trying to manipulate my L to accepting his word for all that without verification. Then STBX called me because it's his night with the kids and he didn't know where they were (he could have if he'd looked at the calendar or called the babysitter or asked me when he arranged to take the kids tonight, but he didn't; he just took it for granted that everyone would be where he decided they would be). And in the call he basically accused me of wasting "the kids'" money and told me that my L is a shark and "he knows that type" and that the guy was just racking up fees to scr#w us. (He's not, you should see how piddly my case has been thus far).
STBX makes 10x more than I do. And he's just 40. My salary isn't enough to pay for childcare plus the grocery bill. No WAY am I going to bat face to face with him. I'm trusting, I'm loving, maybe I'm even sometimes a little naive, but I'm not flat-out stupid. I need someone who understands all this stuff and is motivated to stand up for me.
I told STBX that I don't trust him ONE LITTLE BIT and that I needed someone knowledgeable to keep an eye on my best interests. He was angry and tried to push it and I just said no. I'm not his wife anymore. I don't have to be a team player. This is what "every man for himself" feels like. He just never knew it before.
I know this isn't DB but I've been holding this garbage in all day and I feel sick. I feel like STBX is targeting me unfairly just for having been his wife when he was tired of being married and I'm supposed to just lie down and accept yet MORE cr@p from him after already taking SO MUCH and that I'm going to start hearing a lot of fight from him because I won't roll over and do what he says.
I have a life I have to plan for myself. I have a life I have to plan for my kids. I fully expect him to move (far) away from our town before D11 is even driving (he's practically come out and said he would). I've already spent 17 years at his mercy. I don't want to trust my future to his lies and self-interest too.
Thank you for listening to my vent. This is not how things should be. I don't even care what happens to him, if the karma bus finds him or not. As far as I'm concerned, he's cheating himself out of a lovely life with wonderful people and exciting adventures and the karma bus has hit him already. He just can't tell.
GRRRRRRRRRR.
I think it's good that you told him honestly that you were going to have a L. I did the same, we never got there but I would not have done a D without one because it is a business negotiation.
You don't have to explain that decision to anyone. You don't have to lie down and take crap from anyone.
However...
And please read this in the spirit intended with all due respect, try to let go of characterizing everything he does or says. It immediately puts you in the position of victim. You don't have to be in that place.
When he acts like King Baby can you, in your mind, think "FU, not a snowballs chance in he!!" and move on? It's not easy but otherwise you churn this negative stuff that serves no purpose.
You really don't need to know why he acts as he does, you just need to know your boundaries and who you want to be.
It's hard to tell here if you're blowing off steam or if you're really biting the hook. Either way, carry with you the knowledge that you get to decide what you let into your head.
No one believes him, probably not even him.
The simpler version of the above.
Choose your path and walk it. Allow those who can't walk beside you, not in front of or behind you, but beside you, to fall by the wayside.
The old Maya Angelou quote, "When people show you who they are, believe them," has such meaning.
Yes, you are right. I'm wobbling between anger and grief now. It hurts.
Last night he said he wanted to behave fairly to "leave things as right as they could be" between us. I don't understand how he could have spent sixteen FULL (as in eventful) years with me and want to just shake me off him like dirt from his shoes. I told him that expecting my trust at this point was entitlement and if he wanted to regain it even a little then he needed to respect my opinions and whatever I actions I felt like I needed to take to see to my own best interests.
As good as it felt to lay that out so plainly, I feel like I crumpled with my daughter today. She turned twelve today.
It was very, very bad. Something was clearly upsetting her. But she exhibits it as utter disrespect and ugliness. ALL EVENING. Horrible. I wanted to just walk away from her and be calm. But I needed to get dinner on the table. I needed to get things done. And the whole night she's just chasing after me complaining, criticizing, awful. My boundaries trampled (though not as bad as they used to be) and I couldn't enforce them. I still have so much growing to do.
STBX called her on the actual phone tonight and since she was really angry and wouldn't take the phone, I put it on speaker and set it next to her. She never did take it and eventually he gave up. Then he texted me that he was sorry but he'd call back later when she was calmer.
I found that moment very infuriating. But rather than responding with some version of FU I ignored him. BTW, I don't know if she knows why he wasn't here for her birthday. I didn't ask because I don't want to give the appearance of getting in the middle of them in any way. He didn't post his travel on the family calendar (that has been the agreement in the past), but I understand from the email exchange forwarded from my attorney that he seems to be traveling today. She didn't ask on the phone, he didn't say. If she thinks he's in town and only called her, no wonder she's upset and clingy.
I have become much stronger in the last year. Much, much stronger. Still so far to go, though. My girl was so upset today. Time of the month? First birthday since her dad moved out? Too tired/hungry? Adjusting to the strict (but not completely organized) babysitter? Something at school? Why today and not yesterday? The boys are feeling better and finally sleeping in their own beds again (at least for now). My girl seems to be getting a little clingier. I hope I can help her learn to speak her needs so she can be better.
Maybell,
Get over to school book dot org and check out the #being12 series. It will help you understand the high drama, mood swings, etc.
Do something good for yourself very soon, ok?
I just want to say how impressed and pleased at how you are dealing with your H right now. I'm very happy that you stand firm on your desire to use a L. I don't trust him one bit either. I also find that you articulate very well to him why you are choosing that path. I think you're touching a nerve with him and taking away his capacity to manipulate you to his advantage. Keep at it, there's a whole stadium here cheering for you.
So just to be clear, I meant the say FU in your head, not too him.
Do you really need to know exactly what she's upset/angry/hurt about in order to be there for her? This is somewhat familiar territory for me as my son never shares things feelings with me however his mood changes like the seasons only more often. I try to remain consistent, loving supportive but not take on his stuff. It's the most difficult thing I've ever been called to do.
EVER!
But he also shows me where I need work.
Did you ever get an IC?
I got that -- I just couldn't think of a polite response worth the effort so I let it go.
Wonderful evening with my kids tonight. D12 was snuggly and lovey. We watched a couple of Taylor Swift videos together and she's happy. There's a slim possibility I might get into the house I really want as a rental too -- patience and faith. And being ok if it doesn't happen, which I totally am.
I hope this moment of peace streeeeeeeeeeeeeetches out for a while.
No. I'm at my limit right now. For the last three weeks I've had a new babysitter who is older and that has eased a lot of the pressure on me, but before that I spent every minute of my sick leave on kids' sick days, snow days, and lawyer stuff. I could barely keep my head above water. Three weeks ago I started D12 in therapy which has dropped to every other week. That helped a ton. I'll be dropped from STBX's health insurance when the divorce is final and its unclear how my budget will work so I'm reluctant to start with a new IC if I can't afford it. My new insurance won't cover it.
Feeling tremendous anxiety about having a place to live and enough money to meet all my goals. I've been playing with some budgeting calculators and realized that we don't have nearly enough money saved to pay for the kids' college. A big part of this anxiety comes from STBX's email about the lawyer -- it brought up a point about college that got me thinking. Now I'm thinking, how am I supposed to do all this? If we had continued the budget meetings that I tried to start when we were newly married (he shut them down within six months) then maybe we would have made better financial decisions all along, but we spent money like college students, not really worrying about the future except retirement. And the retirement savings were made in a way that, while there's lots of money saved up, there was no strategy to it, and so much could have been done a LOT more intelligently.
I could go on... but I won't. I know money panic is a big part of divorce. I doubt STBX is having fits about it. but a lot of the equity in the house will be evaporated by having to sell it without a corporate package in place... so much money just DISSIPATED by STBX not being able to face himself and hiding in sex with strangers. OMG.
Somebody talk me down.
Maybell, I'll talk you down about college costs. Yes, it's expensive. But there are options if you start early. There are people who make their living by helping families figure out how to make college affordable and they give free seminars that are very helpful, and often give a free consultation as well. See if you can find one of these people and make a plan. You have a few years to put a strategy in place. It's not all about how much you have saved up.
One guy in my area is College Pete. Google that, and sign up for his newsletter. It will make you feel better and more in control.
I don't know that I can necessarily talk you down.....because I have a similar moment of panic at least twice a month. Then I remind myself that even people in high functioning marriages who have sound financial plans probably have moments where the retirement/college whammy seems intimidating.
Here's what I remind myself. I'm at a place in my life where my major expenses (car/ house) are unlikely to increase by any significant amount, but that my earnings (and those of STBX)should only continue to grow.
I guess this is one area where I am usually an optimist and frankly, I have a lot of faith in my ability to provide if the chips are down. My own goal is to get to the point where I don't need STBX's child support check each month to maintain our standard of living. With a few lucky breaks, I think I might get there in 4 years or so.
You're a smart lady Maybell - if you need to make something happen financially - you will.
Maybell,
There are a ton of options for college money. Namely scholarships...merit and athletic. Many young people qualify if they are industrious students or wicked awesome in sports. Hence, your parental guidance will be critical in that you drive home the importance of good education to your kids.
For you, I would focus on the immediate needs: roof over your heads and food on the table. When things are a bit more stable and you get bigger pay, then you'll be able to squirrel money for your kids' education & retirement.
Take a short-term hit now for the long-term view.
reality is that you may not be able to provide college for them, or that maybe you will just be able to help out.
No great financial advice here.. but just wanted to remind you that you are a strong resourceful intelligent woman. It's not something that will be solved today or this week, so no need to panic, but the fact that you are thinking about it (something I have to admit that I haven't done) means you are on the right track.
My H and his brother both ended up at prestigious schools-- H got a partial scholarship thru his step mother's company, ironically. And there were a total of 8 kids between his dad and mom and their 2nd spouses. And no one was a millionaire. It's doable.
Hey Maybell...I can't tell you that the D won't impact your ability to hit all of your financial goals. It's the same as how you won't be able to hit your marital goals, your goals of having your kids grow up in a home with two parents together, etc. D is just SO devastating.
What I can say is to have some faith that things will work out. They will rarely work out the way YOU want them to, but they may work out in a way that you will be blessed with tremendous joy and happiness if you are open to it.
For all I know you'll be scratching along for a few years, then you'll meed a classy guy at an art show that turns out to captain an Alaskan cruise ship and has some money, pretty soon you'll be putting 100% of your income towards retirement and your children's college while you're whale watching and sipping champagne off the west coast.
I'd say put together a 3/6/12 month plan for now, and don't worry about the 5-10 year plan. Once the D is final, you have everything nailed down, etc, then things come in to focus a bit more and you'll be able to start looking ahead a bit. But TRUST that if you make good choices day by day the road will always open in front of you. Most importantly, you'll always know you did everything possible. For me that's worth more than a polaroid of a humpback anyway...
Much like everyone here says to see an attorney because knowledge is power, see a financial advisor. You may not be able to complete your plan until everything is settled, but at least you will have an idea of what is available to you. I agree with Zues on this, work out a 1/3/6/12 month plan. That SHOULD help clarify things further down the road.
Bdub, I WORK for a financial advisor and that's what I'm working towards now as my career goal. It's part of what's got me anxious -- I see the impact every day of not being sufficiently prepared for the future. I've been doing a LOT of research into budgeting, etc., in preparation for my divorce, and part of my pain is seeing how VERY different my financial situation could have been if STBX had not decided that going over our finances together made him "uncomfortable." If he had sucked up his discomfort seventeen years ago and learned to communicate through it, we might not have saved the marriage but we WOULD have saved a he!! of a lot of money. (Partly my fault too since I took his word for it that we were "fine" and never pushed the issue till about 4 years ago... hm... that's about when he started sleeping around... interesting).
Anyway....
I'd say put together a 3/6/12 month plan for now, and don't worry about the 5-10 year plan. Once the D is final, you have everything nailed down, etc, then things come in to focus a bit more and you'll be able to start looking ahead a bit. But TRUST that if you make good choices day by day the road will always open in front of you. Most importantly, you'll always know you did everything possible.
and
My own goal is to get to the point where I don't need STBX's child support check each month to maintain our standard of living. With a few lucky breaks, I think I might get there in 4 years or so.
were exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. (And bdub, Claire, and Wonka too!!!) The shorter my view has been through all this process, the better things have fallen together for me. I do need to have faith that I will have everything I need.
My parents paid a VERY minimal amount for my college, and it was TREMENDOUSLY stressful. I paid my own way through most of it through a combination of work and scholarships. I didn't have a car, either, as most people did. By the time I finished school I was really burnt out for any significant efforts for several years and I made some pretty bad decisions. I have lots of friends now putting kids through college and they all talk about how much harder it is just to get in than it was when we all went to college. My kids will have to do everything I did in high school just to gain admittance to college; I don't know how they'll get assistance paying for it. My co-worker, who has two adult daughters, said that a lot of people only have so much to pay up front for school, so the kids take out loans and then the parents will contribute to some amount of the payments for however long after. So I guess there are a lot of ways to finesse it.
My in-laws paid for EVERYTHING for all three of their kids plus a niece. And I mean everything -- down to beer money. My FIL used to be really impressed because STBX would put together a spreadsheet showing exactly how he'd spent his money each month, including beer money as a minor, and happily paid up. It's kind of infuriating to me that had we made more mature decisions and done a better job of communicating with one another early on, that we would have been positioned to be that generous to my kids. I want to be able to help them focus on school so that they aren't as burnt out on graduation as I was, though not to the extent that my in-laws were.
It's better for my kids to have skin in the game. It may be that they have to go to community college for a couple of years before moving on, and that's probably a good thing, because they'll be better prepared to use the big bucks wisely.
And yeah, I can't eat the financial elephant any more than I could eat any of the other elephants up to now, so I'd might as well just keep my focus short term and know that things will likely be ok. Because now I know better, I can do better. It's just... D12 is only six years away from college and I already feel like she's taken enough hits because of her irresponsible parents.
Thank you all for coming through for me.
I spent the morning out at barn sales with a great friend of mine, getting lots of ideas for my next home. That was a really hope-filled way to spend the day. Now I'm going to continue the theme by doing a big home tidying and purge and planning a yard sale.
Here's another quote that I need to hang up in pretty much every room of my house:
She believed she could, so she did.
I think it's Jethro Tull.
All will be well. All IS well.
Wow. Potential amazing opportunity to solve ALL of my housing issues. Thank happy thoughts, folks, if this comes through it will be more grace/good fortune/luck/blessing than I could ever deserve.
Think happy thoughts. Think happy thoughts.
Nope, I disagree it's not more than you deserve. It's what you worked for mayb!
You worked for it you created it. Gooooooooooo mayb
Hey Maybell,
I know finances can be extremely stressful. Unfortunately, 6 years will come sooner than you think but you still have time. Try to keep your focus on your more pressing issues for now. I know it was mentioned previously, but in anything I've read about saving for the future, college tuition is lower on the list than other things.
Other than student loans there are tons of scholarships out there, many go unclaimed simply because people don't know about them.
Sounds like your H does well financially, talk to your attorney about him contributing monthy to a college fund for the kids (outside of child support). I know when I talked to mine (a long time ago) it was on of the things to consider. Just a though.
Today was a weird busy day. I started it off touring the house I'm REALLY hoping to get and having breakfast with my friend, and then I spent the rest of it clearing up the house, doing laundry, and trying to start working my way towards being ready to move. Reviewing the budget and finances and running models to see if it's remotely possible for me to do all this.
So when STBX dropped the kids off tonight I wasn't very nice. I wasn't rude, but I clearly didn't want to look at him or smile at him or really talk to or acknowledge him in any way. When he brings them home I wish he'd drop them off, hug and kiss them, and then go. But he lingers around. He kind of half smiles at me. I wish he'd just GO. He wanted this. I can't be friendly to him when I've been scouring Craigslist for rentals and fielding Zillow links from D12 because she's so anxious to know where we're going to live.
I want to be more remote and less hostile when I see him, but I can't be detached when I am because in my head we click so well that I can't understand why we're divorcing.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is reparable. He will always be the guy who fell in love with a woman so remote that he only actually laid eyes on her four times but she was apparently the love of his life. I'll never unsee the sexts he exchanged with her while we were on our family vacation. I'll never forget how I asked him NOT TO CALL HER when I was confronting him about the communications from her baby daddy and HE CALLED HER RIGHT THERE WHILE I WAS TEXTING HIM and told me how wonderful she was. It has taken a ton of work to come back to enjoying the books, shows, music, and activities that I prefer without feeling like I should be watching the ones he encourages so that he'll think more highly of me. I should never have felt like he thought poorly of me for enjoying my own tastes in the first place anyway.
He treated me with profound disrespect and contempt and that is not reparable. And I made such a fool of myself before he moved out that I think (I know, mind-reading) that if I let down my guard even a little that he'll think I either 1) agree with him that breaking up our family is for the best or 2) care so much about him that I'm willing to let myself be treated that way just to get a few crumbs of his sunshine. It's probably mind-reading but I think he thinks it's so wonderful that he broke free and found his liberty and "himself" that I should just come around to his way of thinking and then we can be super-sophisticated buddy-exes like the evolved, rational people are.
I do NOT want to be his friend. If I didn't have to share my kids with him, I'd like him to walk off and never show his face to me again. I wish I didn't even have to hear his name again. It sounds like poison to me.
(which, by the way, gives me a funny little issue... I don't intend to change my name back for a number of reasons, but the sound of my own name chokes me a little now. But my maiden name does too, because I feel like my parents have really let me down through all this. And that name doesn't feel like mine anymore either.)
Still, I don't like being so hostile, although I AM doing it for my own self-protection. It gives him a sense of being more powerful than he deserves. It makes me look kind of petty and unforgiving. It makes me feel like a person I don't want to be after he leaves. But I don't want to be any nicer to him. I hate that he is putting me through this. It's maybe not OK, but I want to be absolutely sure that he does not think I am AT ALL OK with the choices he's made. I don't want him to think for one bloody little second that I am willing to be friendly to a guy who cheated on his wife and tore up his children's home without even investigating how he could make his life work without destroying so much. I wouldn't treat an acquaintance with his history any friendlier than I treat him. Maybe I'm being self-righteous.
I feel like I should communicate some of this to him so that I can relax my shielding and behave more neutrally to him while knowing that he is aware of my position and that the adjustment in my attitude towards him is for me and not him. On the other hand, if he's as narcissistic as I suspect, it won't matter to him any more than the other times I've told him what I am angry about. He'll just congratulate himself for taking it on the chin and being evolved about things.
Please don't redirect me to IC again. I'm not going back soon. I just want to get moved and divorced (or divorced and moved) and start my own life without having all this hanging over me. I don't want to make myself all vulnerable to another stranger (yes, I know, IRONY) and maybe have to do that 2-3 times or more, paying $100/pop for the privilege of baring my soul in the hope I'll get help and the suspicion I'll just be taken advantage of again. I just want someone to tell me how to conduct myself.
I tried SO HARD to be a good wife. I tried to pay attention to what he needed and what we needed and to build a way of being together that was satisfying to both of us. I don't think I could have succeeded. I should have known that he hates intimacy (hence the much younger woman he interacted with electronically who lived in a foreign country and could never get any closer to him than sex in a hotel room with nothing of their real lives around; ditto the one-night stands).
The last MC we went to (that ended up being so weird with me at the end) told STBX that even if we didn't stay married that he was sure we'd be friends. I told him I never would be and MC contradicted and disagreed with me. MAYBE in 3-5 years, when my feet are under me I might be able to have a family dinner with him without choking on my meal, but no time soon, and when he lingers around like that I feel like he's waiting for me to say something friendly to him to let him know I've moved on.
I don't even want to call him names anymore. I just wish he was a much better quality person. I'm sad and disappointed and disgusted that this is as much imagination as he has. That he doesn't realize how different life could be for him. That he didn't want what I tried to offer. And that he didn't have more compassion and care for me, that I meant so little to him after the investments I made in our life together.
I had a whole long post typed but the internet ate it!
Anyway I just wanted you to know I hear you, maybell.
I hope you can work towards letting go of this anger and resentment you have. Ya who cares about STBX - but it's affecting YOU.
I know I'm in a different place than you are but it saddens me to read how frustrated and angry you sound. I can't imagine it's not radiating off of you.
If you were reading this post from someone you admired, what advice would you give them?
I get it, there's no hope for your M, you want to move on. This is directed at saving yourself from this terrible distaste your STBX leaves with you.
Anyway - I just wanted you to know I'm listening
I feel like I should communicate some of this to him so that I can relax my shielding and behave more neutrally to him while knowing that he is aware of my position and that the adjustment in my attitude towards him is for me and not him.
The first half sounds good. Tell him: "WAH, I wish you just dropped off the kids, hugged them and left. That's just how it is now." Period, no explanation. That's why I'd drop the second half: don't tell him why, don't tell him it's for you. Speak only with your actions.
Maybell, maybe we can work on preserving ourselves together...
(((Maybell)))
All the work I did today barely made a dent in all there is to do. I want to be more minimalist but I didn't acquire all this stuff by myself -- there is a whole garage full of hardware supplies and equipment that won't fit in his swank little bachelor pad, and some of it I'm going to need to own as a homeowner. But he's of the "I can't find it so I'll buy a new one" mindset and so there's multiples of everything and guess whose job it's going to be to pack up and/or dispose of a lot of it?
I need this chapter of my life closed. Then maybe I can heal enough to be less resentful. But every time I go to work on some part of it it's like the scab gets ripped off and I'm bleeding again.
This is so overwhelming.
So when STBX dropped the kids off tonight I wasn't very nice. I wasn't rude, but I clearly didn't want to look at him or smile at him or really talk to or acknowledge him in any way. When he brings them home I wish he'd drop them off, hug and kiss them, and then go. But he lingers around. He kind of half smiles at me. I wish he'd just GO. He wanted this. I can't be friendly to him when I've been scouring Craigslist for rentals and fielding Zillow links from D12 because she's so anxious to know where we're going to live.
I want to be more remote and less hostile when I see him, but I can't be detached when I am because in my head we click so well that I can't understand why we're divorcing............................
Still, I don't like being so hostile, although I AM doing it for my own self-protection. It gives him a sense of being more powerful than he deserves. It makes me look kind of petty and unforgiving. It makes me feel like a person I don't want to be after he leaves. But I don't want to be any nicer to him. I hate that he is putting me through this. It's maybe not OK, but I want to be absolutely sure that he does not think I am AT ALL OK with the choices he's made. I don't want him to think for one bloody little second that I am willing to be friendly to a guy who cheated on his wife and tore up his children's home without even investigating how he could make his life work without destroying so much. I wouldn't treat an acquaintance with his history any friendlier than I treat him. Maybe I'm being self-righteous.
I feel like I should communicate some of this to him so that I can relax my shielding and behave more neutrally to him while knowing that he is aware of my position and that the adjustment in my attitude towards him is for me and not him. On the other hand, if he's as narcissistic as I suspect, it won't matter to him any more than the other times I've told him what I am angry about. He'll just congratulate himself for taking it on the chin and being evolved about things.
Maybell - just my .02 here. You've been at this for many, many months, and you tried really hard to save your marriage during that time. I think that anger, and even some rage, is both totally normal and even called for in this circumstance. But when you spend so much time and effort in trying to repair the relationship it muffles some of that anger and now that you have truly let go - it's all bubbling to the surface again, and probably will for a while. I feel that way too sometimes (usually when one of my kids says something that is just heartbreaking) and I expect to have moments like this for years.
Also- I think an active divorce is by its nature adversarial (is it Starsky who always says that here's a reason they put the "v" in between the parties names) and its almost impossible not to see the STBX somewhat as the "enemy" while its going on. Even in an amicable situation, there are still "sides".
As to being a little hostile when he drops off the kids - I'd reframe that one as being strictly for the kids, and who gives a darn what your STBX might think. It's probably going to be one of the few times they see their parents together, so best to make it as pleasant as possible for
them.
And just so you feel a little better about the drop off thing, this is how bad it got at
my house. In the beginning, STBX wouldn't even acknowledge me or say anything, he just dropped the kids off and basically ran. During one of the very few conversations we had since BD, we literally had to spell out how every bit of that interaction would play out. When he srops of the kids, he is to help them with their stuff, walk them in to the house, give me a brief download of anything that I might need to know (last time D3 napped etc) and kiss them goodbye. When he picks them up, I will help him get them into his truck, tell them to have a good time and wave cheerily goodbye. Yes, we had to spell it all out...and it's still strained although I do my very best for the sake of the girls (honestly it works a lot better when he picks them up directly from school right now and drops them off there as well, but that isn't always possible).
The nice thing about where you are? There's plenty of room to go up
.
Sigh. Raliced said it as nicely as it could possibly be put, Maybell. Warning: I am not going to be as nice as she. It's time for some tough love.
My Aries sister, you are undoubtedly the worst at letting go as anyone I've ever seen. I thought *I* was bad. You return to the scene of the train wreck more than the average bear. What is the payoff for you to continue this insane and heartbreaking ritual? Seriously. What do you get out of this?
This is why I ask you every so often if you've found an IC to help you through this. If you were a victim of a crime, I'd be advising you to work with victim advocacy. Consider the IC in that role, sweetie, because staying on this path is toxic and harmful to everyone in your circle of influence. You deserve better than how you're treating yourself. And more importantly, your kids deserve to have a mom who is functioning at 100% emotionally. I realize that this process is painful.
I want you to think about the you that you want others to see. Do you want people to avoid you because you radiate the outrage and bitterness? You know the person... everyone knows someone who had something unfortunate happen to them that became their lynchpin to staying stuck and the excuse why they couldn't do or be X. It is always someone else's fault that they choose bitterness over betterness. Do you want to be that person, Maybell?
It's not that he deserves mercy, Maybell (though I believe that most people deserve it at some point in their life). It's that YOU deserve mercy.
Still, I don't like being so hostile, although I AM doing it for my own self-protection. It gives him a sense of being more powerful than he deserves.
This is total BS and the ego talking.
It makes me look kind of petty and unforgiving. It makes me feel like a person I don't want to be after he leaves.
Uh huh.
But I don't want to be any nicer to him. I hate that he is putting me through this. It's maybe not OK, but I want to be absolutely sure that he does not think I am AT ALL OK with the choices he's made. I don't want him to think for one bloody little second that I am willing to be friendly to a guy who cheated on his wife and tore up his children's home without even investigating how he could make his life work without destroying so much.
Sigh. OK. We know this, you know this, your kids know this, your H knows this. So you don't want what you got? Check. Maybell, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US who posts here has felt the same way. You just can't stay in this place. This place is groundhog day.
I wouldn't treat an acquaintance with his history any friendlier than I treat him.
This is also BS, Maybell. You probably treat the woman who accidentally rams your car with her shopping cart better than this. It's not a reflection of your H, Maybell. THIS IS A REFLECTION OF WHO YOU WANT TO BE. So your H did the unthinkable. Okay. This forum is filled with people who share this journey with you (myself included). But it doesn't give you the excuse to choose to act like a biatch because you're hurt. It would be far more helpful if you were to go to your H and tell him, "This has hurt me more than you'll ever know. I'm struggling with managing my hurt." I'd understand that a whole lot more because it's authentic.
But you don't get a do-over in this life, Maybell. You're in your early 40s. There is still time to find a deep, true love that you want, need and deserve. But this type of thinking is like garlic to the vampires. Five years are going to pass quickly, and then you're going to turn 50. Who do you want to be then? What's your road map to get there? No excuses, Maybell. It's time to pull up the bootstraps and make a plan. You'll never get these years back. Make them worthwhile.
Since you're into the spiritual, did you know that being Aries means we are the sign of being reborn? When I went to a medium 12 years ago, he told me that I wouldn't recognize myself in 10 years. I found that incredibly difficult to believe. Friday before last, I went to a spiritual fair and got myself a new reading. The first thing she said to me was, "What was the impetus for your change? You're a totally different person than you were 10 years ago." I was a little taken aback. It's true, BTW.
And NONE OF IT would have been possible without this journey. Apparently, like you, I learn things the hard way. I just decided I don't want to be as unhappy in the last half of my life. You're being handed that golden opportunity to figure out how you want to live your life from here on. You can stay the same and want nothing to change and probably wake up dissatisfied when you're 50 or 60. Or you can change and grow. Your choice.
BTW, Raliced, Mr. W. and I started our drop offs the same way as you. When my oldest told him how much it bothered her to see him be so cold, he changed his tune. We started out like all of you. Bitterness, resentment, fear and ego ruled our world. Until power was taken back.
Oh, one more thing, MB. My hardline in dating now is that he can't hate his XW. Why? Because that means his energy is still being diverted into an emotion that keeps him stuck. I deserve better. I'm not giving anyone any energy that isn't coming back to our R.
I truly am sorry if any of this seems unusually harsh. It's not something I enjoy doing. If you were a casual poster, I'd just not read you anymore and move on. But I feel connected with you, and if you were a friend IRL, I'd have this conversation with you over lunch, as my friend, and someone who is important to me.
Hugs-Betsey
A friend posted a saying on FB today that kind of illustrates my post much more succinctly:
"Sometimes God doesn't change your situation because He is trying to change your heart."
When I got stuck in my angry, hopeless feelings, I changed my prayers to read, "Please change what's in my heart. Your will be done." THAT's when things changed for me.
I probably should not chime in here but I will anyway. When XW comes to my house she gets a minute or 2 and then I go to the door and open it and hold it open for her. If that does not do the trick I will say (have said) "OK, its time for you to go". Nothing harsh or hostile, but I get my point across clearly.
You don't have to let him hang around. You don't have to look at him. Why torture yourself? Eventually it will get better. Doesn't have to be today, or even next week. Take your time working through it.
Maybell, my doll, do you see it? We gots some work to do. We've both been schooled, bonked on the head and told we are stuck.
I could use a growth partner. Would love for you to be mine if you are willing. Hold me accountable to staying focused on me. (And perhaps I could do the same for you )
What do you think?
Claire, yep.
Not sure how to implement, though, do you have a plan?
Betsey, thank you, I do appreciate your perspective and I'm going to stew on your words for a while.
This is NOT a but. This is processing. Maybe clarifying.
I don't think I'm that bitter when he's not around. I don't talk about him much unless I'm asked or if there is some past event I'm trying to put in its proper place as part of my processing process. What was real? What wasn't? Where did I go wrong? What is his?
RIGHT NOW, I still feel the same response to him that I always felt. Meaning, that I feel the same connection to him that I felt when I very first knew him. That he and I are... I don't know... sympatico? I don't know. But I feel a physical sensation of belonging together.
Now I'm trying to really let go of him. But when I SEE him, I want to say casual connecting things like "Hey, did you see Walking Dead this week?" But I DON'T want to say that -- because what's happened between us was so destructive and I don't want to gloss over it and I know that's how he'd take it. So I overstate the coldness just to keep myself from reaching out to him again and making a fool of myself some more.
He doesn't want me. OK. I HEAR that. I am living it. I'm trying to live it gracefully. It is really, really hard to let go of him when my instinct is to connect, and I can see that he's standing there waiting for it.
(is it worth saying that my instinct with people generally is to connect? and that this is part of that?)
He doesn't want the marriage back. He just wants us to be friends. Because I'm his best friend but he wants passion. I can't live with that. At least, not for a long time. Not till my life has been lived for a while without him and all the detritus of this destruction has been left behind.
I'm not contradicting what you're saying and I promise to reread your posts more carefully and really take your message to heart. For what it's worth, I am a very different person from who I was even only three years ago, and a lot of that is due to the kindess of people weighing in here. I do take a little pride in that.
When I got stuck in my angry, hopeless feelings, I changed my prayers to read, "Please change what's in my heart. Your will be done." THAT's when things changed for me.
This is the part I needed to hear. Thanks for following up with that. I will do this.
Claire, goodness, you are such a good egg.
I had a few women here (who are still people I call friends IRL) who were my change compadres. It was such a worthwhile group effort that it would have been difficult not to choose growth and discomfort through it all.
RIGHT NOW, I still feel the same response to him that I always felt. Meaning, that I feel the same connection to him that I felt when I very first knew him. That he and I are... I don't know... sympatico? I don't know. But I feel a physical sensation of belonging together.
So are you saying you have 2 speeds? Off and on? All or nothing? My personal choice is to connect to the other person (we are not just talking sexual partners or former spouses) where they are, within my healthy boundaries as well. This belonging together is a something that you've stuck in this equation. Why? You belong together. You hate what he's done and he disgusts you. You still want to connect. Yet you want to kill him and can't even ask about Walking Dead? Woman, this is completely nuts.
Now I'm trying to really let go of him. But when I SEE him, I want to say casual connecting things like "Hey, did you see Walking Dead this week?" But I DON'T want to say that -- because what's happened between us was so destructive and I don't want to gloss over it and I know that's how he'd take it.
Good grief, MB. This is a pure ego instinct. You'd be asking him about a TV show, for crying out loud! Not a meaningful sexual experience or a sharing of raw emotion. This is small talk you'd have with an acquaintance at your D11's school who you knew watched the show.
So I overstate the coldness just to keep myself from reaching out to him again and making a fool of myself some more.
EGO, EGO, EGO. Somewhere between spilling your guts all over the floor and outright refusal of any small talk is a blissful medium, MB. It's ok to talk about Walking Dead. It's okay to judge Tiger Mom's sh!tty cupcakes at the science fair. It's okay to discuss how gas prices have been bipolar. It's okay to complain about the remodeling at the grocery store. It's okay. IT'S OKAY! It's okay to connect as 2 human beings who converse. I realize that your R with him is a work in process. I also realize that you're butt hurt that he rejected you and pulled the trigger on your marriage, dishonorably as he did that. But I hate to tell you that the milk spilled on the floor and it's not going back in that glass.
In your case, someone cleaned up the mess and you're still staring at it saying, "I can't believe you spilled the milk!" This is the insanity I had to point out. It doesn't mean it wasn't an colossal mess. It means that you do your level best to live right now. Quit looking in that rear mirror.
If you did that, and he walked through the door to pick up or drop off the kids and you had those blinders on, could you say, "What did you think about Walking Dead this week?" He'd tell you. Or not. Then you could say, "Well, thanks, but it's time to get the kids started on homework/chores/whatever. See you Wednesday." Tell me what kind of foolish that would make you for connecting in such a fashion?
He doesn't want the marriage back. He just wants us to be friends. Because I'm his best friend but he wants passion. I can't live with that. At least, not for a long time. Not till my life has been lived for a while without him and all the detritus of this destruction has been left behind.
Ok, so you don't want this. At least not right now. So don't be his best friend. Be the kind of person who can have a conversation with another parent. He just happens to be the parent of your kids, but you don't have to make it that personal even. Neither one of you is ready to be friends the way you both would define it. So do what you need to do to be happy TODAY. Just today. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
I don't think I'm that bitter when he's not around. I don't talk about him much unless...
Well, he's not around when you blog so I'll challenge you on that. I get venting, MB. I'm not advising you to not do that. If you think bitter with him or without him, it's affecting you. It's getting in your way of being close to others because you're still butt hurt but letting it come out as anger.
or if there is some past event I'm trying to put in its proper place as part of my processing process. What was real? What wasn't?
I'll answer this. Yes, you both did wrong in your marriage. It was real. End of story.
This, too, is a work in progress. Haven't you been doing this all along? What grand conclusions have you reached? Will they help you today? Or tomorrow? What kind of feelings are associated with this processing? How are you processing them? By processing, I mean literally replaying and then leaving the past in the past. It's helpful to have a game review if it helps you come up with a plan from this day forward. But if you want to review the breakdown of the 2014 Superbowl (I'd rather not, BTW), what value is in it for you? If the value is to assign blame or wield the hammer of judgement, MOVE ON.
Not your place, and it certainly won't be of help processing.
Now, let me have a bite of our lunch dessert. 'Cause I need to ask you a really personal question. Is the reason you do this because you feel judged by others so much that you have to judge him and also to have him know you have weighed in on the judgement? I'm handing the fork back to you to mull over.
For what it's worth, I am a very different person from who I was even only three years ago, and a lot of that is due to the kindness of people weighing in here. I do take a little pride in that.
I believe it. Hopefully, we all get some wisdom along the way. But every single one of us is a work in process, you know? When you quit growing, you die.
And p.s.: Thank you for being gracious with a post I really would have not penned. I appreciate your willingness to hear what I had to say.
Maybell,
It seems to me that Bets et al are all trying to say this in not so many words:
You have not yet arrived at the indifference stage.
When you experience hate which is the opposite of love, it is still feeling
something that suggests you're not completely detached.
Indifferent, no? Nope.
Trust me, you'll get there....EVENTUALLY.
Maybell,
Not totally sure, but perhaps we could agree to check in on each others threads regularly and give gentle quick reminders or ask questions that will prompt us to focus on the right things. ..?
Like I said, I am clearly BRAND - NEW at this kind of thing, so flying a bit blind but willing to give it a go!
Betsey, Wonka:
Nope, I am not in the indifference stage. And I do actually really want to be there. And also, I'm really terrified of being there. Does it mean he and I are really, truly over if I actually get indifferent? Maybe that's it. But I really, truly do WANT to be indifferent.
Also, my housing situation is completely up in the air at the moment and that always brings out the crazy in me. It could be awesome or it could be awful, and I have no way of knowing which way the chips are going to fall. Before I'd get worked up about housing but I tempered it because someone had my back (you should have seen how zen I was when I moved into this house!). But now, I don't know for sure what I can afford, I don't know if the kids are going to have to move twice, I don't know how all these options are going to play out once the settlement is written and I am SCARED of it all. So that's a big part of all this emotion too.
(I'm just back at looking at a rental house that is kind of far from my home, that is tiny and FILTHY but not in a scary neighborhood... and at the moment my life feels like two steps forward, three steps back.)
Betsey, you are completely right to call BS on me. I appreciate how nice you are about it, too.
At the risk of navel-gazing. You ask about my two speeds. You have to understand that in the last several years most of our conversations were about movies and television. He stopped reading during the years we were happy together and he never wanted to hear about the books I was reading. Then he decided to make it a personal goal to read 100 books in a year. Do you know how focused you have to be to read 100 books in a year? But he did it. But if I ever asked him about any of the books he was reading -- if I'd enjoy them, what he liked about them, what he found thought-provoking, whatever, he'd get mad and say his brain didn't work like that and why did I have to keep pestering him? The deepest conversations we had were about characterization on shows like Walking Dead and it was mostly just him holding forth about the White Hat/Black Hat thing. So reaching out to him on a playground level is too much for him... and yet he lingers in the house and won't leave. I mean it like playground conversation. But he wouldn't see it that way because for the most part playground conversation was as deep as he went. And I need him to just go but then again I guess not saying "Please go now" is a way of holding on to a tiny crumb.
In your case, someone cleaned up the mess and you're still staring at it saying, "I can't believe you spilled the milk!" This is the insanity I had to point out. It doesn't mean it wasn't an colossal mess. It means that you do your level best to live right now. Quit looking in that rear mirror.
This is completely 100% accurate. Point taken. Thank you for phrasing it in a way that could get into my head.
I don't want to be angry for long, but I think till the move and things are settled (hopefully in the next few weeks) I'll be pretty raw. When we moved here barely two years ago. I had full expectation that a lot of the material factors that were causing us to be distant to one another would be resolved with this move here and then I found out that instead of caring about me I'd been dumped that way. I'm cleaning up stuff that was half-unpacked when I found out about the affair and since it was just one grenade after another I've only really been functional since October or so -- and I started a full-time job in November. So I never really got properly unpacked and I keep stumbling over things that ratchet the tension back up again. I'm trying, Betsey, I really am. I don't want to be stuck. This isn't a pretty place to be.
Now, let me have a bite of our lunch dessert. 'Cause I need to ask you a really personal question. Is the reason you do this because you feel judged by others so much that you have to judge him and also to have him know you have weighed in on the judgement? I'm handing the fork back to you to mull over.
Yes. I feel very judged. Mostly by my parents. In the past whenever I needed help from them it wasn't long before my mother would mock me for needing them. I am kind of holding my breath for the day when she says something like "You couldn't even keep your marriage together" in a contemptuous tone of voice. She will. She has before.
I also feel judged by him. Weighed and found wanting. I am still trying to convince myself this isn't all my fault. I'm being defensive.
And I'm scared he's the best I could do and it's all downhill from here. Or that I'll find someone to love and it will be so complicated and messy blending our families that it won't work.
I did want to apologize to him last night but I don't know how to find the right balance with him without it getting too personal for either one of us.
Claire, that sounds good. Shall we set up a priority list for things to be mindful of?
Still at the hate stage over here too.
I wake up in the middle of the night and curse her.
When will eventually happen? Perhaps I can mark it on my calendar.
Well, one of my boys has lice. I guess that's my karmic justice for nurturing my bad attitude lately.
Anyway, I sent STBX an email saying I wasn't proud of my behavior and asking if we could find a way to work things out so that they were easier between us. He agreed and said he hoped for the same thing too. (it was much longer than that but I just discovered the lice and now I'm looking at a huge treatment activity rather than crawling into my pajamas and heading off to bed... the bed my boys sleep in with me half the time... sigh...)
I did also ask him to leave more promptly and he agreed to that too.
It sticks in my craw a little to extend that olive branch. It is for the kids. Nurturing a grudge helps no one and is the sort of thing my mother would do. I'll try to be the bigger person.
BTW, Betsey, yes, I would be nicer to the lady who accidentally let her shopping cart hit my car. I'd be very gracious, if she were apologetic. But if she did it on purpose because I drive a minivan rather than a sports car, then no, I'd speak out. To me, that is the difference.
BTW, Betsey, yes, I would be nicer to the lady who accidentally let her shopping cart hit my car. I'd be very gracious, if she were apologetic. But if she did it on purpose because I drive a minivan rather than a sports car, then no, I'd speak out. To me, that is the difference.
There's always "Towanda!!"....just sayin'.
YES!!!! I need to watch that movie again!
OK, first of all, I'm really sorry to hear about the lice. I haven't had to deal with it as a mom, but we had a lice infection in my FOO house when I was 14. It was ugly. Then there's my moment in the spotlight. I struggled with sensory issues when I was younger... so when my mom came into the bathroom to explain to me how to scrub, I saw some down in the Netherlands and fainted in the tub. The problem with me fainting is that I wind up going into convulsions. It took my whole family to hold me down. My naked self. It was awful. But looking back, it was my mom who got the crappiest job. I'm so sorry.
So, let's get down to brass tacks, shall we? Did you save me some dinner? I'm hungry.
And also, I'm really terrified of being there. Does it mean he and I are really, truly over if I actually get indifferent? Maybe that's it.
I was going to try to be a little more breezy to add some levity, but figured you probably need some authenticity from me about now. Yes, THAT marriage between you is dead. It is not ever going to be resurrected. It does not mean that in the future you won't see things differently. But that marriage is over. Oh, look! Look down, MB... the floor did not drop out from under you and the sky hasn't fallen! Here's the thing. Being an observer and detached from the outcome doesn't mean that the outcome isn't what it is. Does this make sense? The elephant is in the living room, sweetie, whether or not anyone wants to admit that.
The housing situation is for sure a stressor. Be nice to yourself. And those around you. Since I know the fear monster pretty well, and also suffer from anxiety, I can relate to this in a big way. When these things start to spiral out of control in my head, I ask myself, "Okay, so what's the worst that could happen?" The Eyeore in me says, "You and the girls could wind up living in a cardboard box." Then self says to that, "Pish posh. You've lived on nothing before. Have you ever lived out of your car or in a box?" Eyeore says, "Well, no." Self says, "Ok then. Let's take it one day at a time. What can you do about this today?" Eyeore identifies some tasks, and Self says, "Ok, so what's stopping you?"
Recognize that little Maybell is scared and needs to be reassured it's gonna be okay. Big Maybell is definitely up to that. She's a good mom and they believe her when she says it will all work out. Right? So make sure that you corral little Maybell as well. Give that little kid in you a voice. Have you ever done this exercise? I think it might be in one of the Feel the Fear books? It seems kind of neurotic, but when we get scared we go into that fight or flight mode and we revert back to the time in life when we felt that need.
You have to understand that in the last several years most of our conversations were about movies and television. He stopped reading during the years we were happy together and he never wanted to hear about the books I was reading. Then he decided to make it a personal goal to read 100 books in a year. Do you know how focused you have to be to read 100 books in a year?
OK, so he's a weird one. BTW, I can blow that 100 books a year out.of.the.water. Amazon frickin' loves me. So tell me what's wrong with having playground conversation at this point? Then ask him to leave when you need to force a transition. You know you can do that light and breezy, right? It doesn't have to be biatchy. "Hey, thanks for dropping them off. I really need to get dinner started/wash my hair/floss my teeth/pick my nose." Whatever you want to say to let him know it's time to disengage.
If your emotions are raw, it's time to take a step back and amp up the self care. Pizza and movie nights. Dessert before dinner nights (yeah, my girls LOVED that night and still do). Appetizer nights. Kids plan the menu nights. Breakfast for dinner nights. Build chair forts and read to each other with flashlights or tell stories. Take a walk, if it's nice enough to get out there. Call your BFF from college. Talk only about things that make you both laugh. Go do the pottery place and create some stuff with your kids. Manicure and pedicure with a cute design on your big toes. Schedule a day trip to the hot springs. Schedule some time for smiles, Maybell. Whatever shape and form that takes.
OK, now time for the juicy stuff.
Yes. I feel very judged. Mostly by my parents. In the past whenever I needed help from them it wasn't long before my mother would mock me for needing them. I am kind of holding my breath for the day when she says something like "You couldn't even keep your marriage together" in a contemptuous tone of voice. She will. She has before.
Let's return to the broken filter thought for a second. Tell me something. What makes your mom or your H the authorities on Maybell? This sounds like a Maybell who keeps reading the role that others have cast her in. When does Maybell get to say to herself, "I hate that fricking play, and I hate that fricking role they keep wanting me to play. So I'm not doing it anymore. From now on, I choose my own roles. What they think doesn't matter, because I'm the authority on me, and only I can be the boss of me. So there."
Just because she says you're a failure does not make it true. Repeat after me. What they say isn't my truth.
And I'm scared he's the best I could do and it's all downhill from here. Or that I'll find someone to love and it will be so complicated and messy blending our families that it won't work.
Please know I'm sitting here snickering. Until you came along, I thought I was the only person who had these types of imaginary scenarios with imaginary pitfalls. It's self defeating and I can tell you from experience, the worst case scenario rarely happens. If at all.
FTR, we got a diagnosis on my D18 shortly before she turned 3. Even without the Dx, the truth was that she didn't walk until she was 2 and she still didn't babble or verbalize. The moment I got that Dx, I crumpled to the floor of my bathroom. (Story for another day. Or maybe it's somewhere in the annals of my old threads.) I was without hope and despondent, because her Dx became what would define her from that point forward. Or so I thought.
Then someone smart approached me and kindly suggested I live every day in the moment. This person told me to celebrate the joys that came in a 24 hour period and to avoid looking too far ahead because things would be different when I got down the road a bit. When she was 3, I was deathly afraid of what our lives would look like when she turned 18. Maybell, I was freaking out about her being an adult disabled person at the age of 3! WTF? I think it took one or 2 more people in the know to convince me to live each day as it came. To put the blinders on when I was tempted to get too far ahead of myself.
Here I am, and my D18 made it this far. So did I! Okay, so she didn't outgrow her seizures like we thought she might. She's still nonverbal. But she can do lots of things that I never imagined she'd ever do. Like sleep the night through. Like do things that require multiple steps in a task (she is in charge of the faculty coffee bar at school and LOVES making coffee!). Like have a cadre of people believe in her ability to do things that other typical people do. But the one thing that is her hidden jewel and the best gift someone could ever give me? Every day is a clean slate with her and she doesn't hold a grudge. Ever. She genuinely cares about the feelings of others. How could I ever want her to be someone else?
What I'm trying to say is to resist the temptation to live in the land of what if. Sure, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. But don't live in the trap of thinking the sky will have to fall sometime. Here's the kicker. I was the person in the crowd who always thought I always got the fuzzy end of the lollipop. (Lollipop for anyone who can tell me the movie with that quote.) The thing is that because I believed that, it was generally true. Why? Because what I focus on expands. It was a real struggle to change my filter. The new filter says, "There is nothing that I can't handle. But it always turns out fine because I'm smart and capable and handle things well when everyone needs a champion." It's empowering. And guess what? That's even more true.
Leave Eyeore in the book with your kids where he belongs. Pooh and Piglet are better role models.
Now for the final observation:
I did want to apologize to him last night but I don't know how to find the right balance with him without it getting too personal for either one of us.
You're making this seem like brain surgery when it's not. "Hey, H. Last night I was really grumpy and you were caught in the crossfire. I'm really sorry about that and promise to do better in the future."
Whether or not he accepts your apology matters not. It's whether or not you are sincere and authentic - as your commitment to yourself. As I told my D21 today (who was struggling with a conversation with someone that got weird and out of hand and she was asking for advice on how to communicate clearly without becoming defensive or even offensive), "Say what you mean and mean what you say."
It really is as simple as that. Be authentic. What "they" say or think doesn't matter AT.ALL when you're being the person you want to be.
Late night hugs for being a trouper.