I've changed my name from ImDumb to burger. I'm still hanging in there.
Previous:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537479#Post2537479Quick summary:
Spouse with ADHD is addicted to video Game and in EA. Don't know if it has become PA.
Hoping D21 comes home after work. Very lonely always being by myself every evening while W hides in the other room to play video games. Unfortunately I can't do GAL activities every night.
I have that problem, Burger. We go to our separate places after my son goes to bed. I can't GAL as much due to location and my son. Just find something that you like to do at home. Read, do a puzzle, build something, watch tv...
Thank-you for the note Eirinn. I’m slowly getting interest back in my hobbies.
W was in a better mood this morning. I got a really long hug from her. It’s kind of like she has forgiven me for confronting her about sending naked pictures to people on the Internet. That sentence makes me shake my head.
It’s kind of like she has forgiven me for confronting her about sending naked pictures to people on the Internet. That sentence makes me shake my head.
Me too.
Starsky,
Do you forgive me for confronting her? Or are you shaking your head too? or both?
Shaking my head at the sheer dysfunction of the entire thought process of waywards.
It doesn't take long to go from EA to PA. My lady will however string someone along forever and do an EA on them while just bilking them for money and time. All in the while having compartamentalized them from any true sex activities.
However a standard issue woman, will not usually EA with a guy they can't see themselves doing those things with.
I 'think' it may not have become PA at this point because the OM lives out of state, and everything is in that online fantasy world where everything is perfect.
Burger, I am also dealing with the online fantasy world with my wife. Mine has gone so far as to pretend she is someone else at times. It is sad! I am also in separate bedrooms. I am just waiting for that guy from the show on MTV called Catfish to come knocking on my door with some guy looking for this woman he has been talking to!! LOL!! It is not really funny, it is really sad. But I think I would invite them in and sit down with some popcorn and watch the show!!! Let her try to lie her way out of that one. I have no proof of anything, but I have found things that make me believe this stuff is going on.
Burger, I am also dealing with the online fantasy world with my wife. Mine has gone so far as to pretend she is someone else at times. It is sad! I am also in separate bedrooms. I am just waiting for that guy from the show on MTV called Catfish to come knocking on my door with some guy looking for this woman he has been talking to!! LOL!! It is not really funny, it is really sad. But I think I would invite them in and sit down with some popcorn and watch the show!!! Let her try to lie her way out of that one. I have no proof of anything, but I have found things that make me believe this stuff is going on.
When these WAS's play this particular online cheating game it would be so easy to set them up. Set them up with a date and get them to go all the way through with it, caught on tape. See them try to lie out of that one.
I 'think' it may not have become PA at this point because the OM lives out of state, and everything is in that online fantasy world where everything is perfect.
Does she have any other OM's she talks to?
I completely agree!! I would like to see the look on her face as I am standing there watching!! Actually I would grab some of her things and put them in a bag and hand the stuff to the guy and say GOOD LUCK!!!
There are other OM's that she talks too from the game as well. I'm not sure how many of those have become outside the game friends.
It seems like every afternoon after lunch I get really sad. Not sure what triggers it, my mind just wanders into places it shouldn't. Anyone have any tips on how to combat this?
I recommend pudding after lunch, Burger. Cheers me right up every time!
No, seriously - do you mean if you are at work, outside work or both? Maybe have a think about changing your routine. Get out for a walk after lunch or plan some errands or a meeting. Part of coping with our sitches is getting to understand what makes things feel worse and planning/doing things to improve that.
I struggle if I get home at say 4pm, and there's a whole evening at home ahead of me. So, I try to either be out or busy until around six - and feel okay from then on...
oh, i do like pudding! Good idea Toots.
Typically it's when I eat lunch with my team and then head back to my desk. I'm thinking next week I'm going to try skipping lunch with them.
I've thought joining the onsite fitness center. Maybe that would be a better place to spend my lunch time.
We had a game last night. I have been avoiding the games with her mostly. However she asked me to go to the one last night with her, and after a rough week I thought it might be nice to spend a little time with her.
I tried to set no expectations but I must have been fooling myself. She hardly looked at me the entire game. Only talk was about the game. Just was not a fun time, even though we won. Then it was home and as usual, she couldn’t wait to get back into her fantasy game land. I think I need to take a game or two off.
She also seems quite sad the last couple of days.
I've been getting a lot of advice to give up and leave her. I have to keep reminding myself of the DR book and that friends usually only have what gets me better quickest in mind, not what is best for me long term.
I did reach out to a friend today who told me to keep 'holding the line' as long as I can. Wait until I reach the point that there is no hope of recovery.
Don't know that I have a point. Just wanted to journal this down.
Your friends may truly want what's best for you in the long run, but it's very difficult for them not to be biased b/c they care for you. Family/relatives are the same way.
Burger, I've faced the same with my friends. I think that's why MWD advises against sharing your sitch with others (I unfortunately told friends prior to reading DR). Your friends love you and want you happy; they see you hurting so their first reaction will be to say "get out of this situation that hurts you". They may not think about other factors, that's just their first reaction. I would say confide more in the supportive friend if you want someone to talk to, and perhaps don't discuss your sitch as much (or at all) with the others.
Thanks for stopping by my thread. I just got caught up with yours and your very first post resonated so deeply with me, as my XH met his OW on an online game and has now moved 1600 miles away from the only home he's ever known to be with her. Of course, he denies that is how he met her, claiming to know her through a friend, but that is all water under the bridge.
Welcome and I am sorry you find yourself here, but appreciate your comments and support and will certainly drop in and do the same for you. This is a great place to share and find help and hope. Fabulous folks around here, that is for sure!
I completely agree!! I would like to see the look on her face as I am standing there watching!! Actually I would grab some of her things and put them in a bag and hand the stuff to the guy and say GOOD LUCK!!!
"Naw babe, you can let him take care of you now", as you moved her packed boxes to his front lawn.
She told me today that is going to start looking for a new place to live. I'm actually kind of relieved at the thought of having her gone. I really need the space away from her to work on me. I think the word I'm looking for is that she is Toxic.
After an argument she moved out yesterday.
I've never seen her that angry. She said that legally she doesn't have to leave, I told her I knew that and I didn't want her to leave. She told me to [censored] off. She then brought up most everything I have done that has hurt her in the past. She admitted that what she is doing is wrong and said she would have told me eventually. I'm not sure I believe that.
I told her I was still willing to try and work past this. She said she was beyond hurt right now and it would be long time before she would be ready for that and left.
I was shocked at how much anger she had yesterday, she was brining up things that happened over 20 years ago. I did not know she had so much anger bottled up inside. Things that she said she has never gotten over. I hope that once she starts therapy she will learn to put that behind her.
She went to her best friend’s house. I'm glad she is with a friend tonight. Not sure how long she will stay there. I wonder how she will play her video game 20+ hours a day.
I wonder how long until I hear from her again.
I found her wedding ring on her nightstand.
While I miss her a lot, and have cried a lot in the last 24 hours, I do feel like a weight is off my shoulders. I think we both need the space to get better. I’m not going to give up on our marriage, even though it looks very bleak right now. I don’t know if this will push her further into one of her affairs, or further into her fantasy video game world, or if it will snap her back to reality a little.
I am debating sending her an email to see how she is doing.
I suspect I should let her cool down some more?
Please just leave her alone. As they say, haven't you done enough?
She knows how you feel. You already told her you'd want to work on the M even after the lies and affairs. She already told you that you'll never understand the depth of her hurt and anger towards you. Can't you just let that lie?
I really wish more LBS's could stop poking and prodding at their WAW. Just let them go and work on yourself. Really. That's ALL you can do. Too often even "DBing" is really an excuse to keep prodding or trying to control WAS's journey. You MUST MUST MUST let her go now.
GAL. Work on yourself. Let her be the first to initiate contact, and then keep it brief and end it first. Don't try to work things out, explain, blah blah blah. SPEAK ONLY THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS. NO WORDS. PLEASE. ACTIONS. Just GAL, and work on your own growth.
I'm not a vet, just an 8 month LBS myself. I really wish I could show you how far gone she is right now. Read Sandi's new thread again. She doesn't feel how you do, not even a tiny tiny bit. You need to pull yourself together and build your new life by yourself before she destroys what's left of you.
Burger, listen to what Zues is saying and read Sandi's post please. I was doing the same things you are. I know it is hard, but please listen to what they are saying. I fought it some at first, but these people know what they are talking about.
Thank you Zues, I think I knew to just leave her alone, but I needed someone to smack it into me. I will avoid initiating contact with her.
Joe, Sandi's new thread is awesome. It's like she has video camera's hidden in my house. I'm going to print it along with her 37 rules post to read every day.
Question for the group.
Now that she has moved out, I'm avoiding contacting her first. However I have some things to discuss with her:
* House - Now that she has left the house I'd like her to avoid the house when I am not home and return her key.
* Credit Cards - She still has two credit cards that are in my name. I would like to cancel them, or give her the option to continue to use them but pay the bills like she has. She has no cards in her name that I know of. Maybe I give her a week to get a card of her own?
* Cell phone - I'd like her to pay her share of the bill, I shouldn't have to pay for a device she uses to text and talk to her OM's. Maybe I tell her to have her phone moved to her own account?
* Game Tickets - There are still a number of games left on our season tickets. I would like to sell them and split the profit for the ones that do not get used.
Any thoughts?
Should I give it more time, she has only been gone two days?
Should I put all these in a short email?
Please just leave her alone. As they say, haven't you done enough?
She knows how you feel. You already told her you'd want to work on the M even after the lies and affairs. She already told you that you'll never understand the depth of her hurt and anger towards you. Can't you just let that lie?
I really wish more LBS's could stop poking and prodding at their WAW. Just let them go and work on yourself. Really. That's ALL you can do. Too often even "DBing" is really an excuse to keep prodding or trying to control WAS's journey. You MUST MUST MUST let her go now.
GAL. Work on yourself. Let her be the first to initiate contact, and then keep it brief and end it first. Don't try to work things out, explain, blah blah blah. SPEAK ONLY THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS. NO WORDS. PLEASE. ACTIONS. Just GAL, and work on your own growth.
I'm not a vet, just an 8 month LBS myself. I really wish I could show you how far gone she is right now. Read Sandi's new thread again. She doesn't feel how you do, not even a tiny tiny bit. You need to pull yourself together and build your new life by yourself before she destroys what's left of you.
Supplication does NOT work, and it's NOT attractive. If you doubt me, just ask any of the women on here, Burger.
Starsky
I understand that I shouldn't contact her. And if she reaches out to me eventually I will not initiate any R talk, and keep the conversation quick and to the point.
Do I just leave her with my credit cards for now? Or just cancel them with no notice? That could put her in a bind.
Question for the group.
Now that she has moved out, I'm avoiding contacting her first. However I have some things to discuss with her:
* House - Now that she has left the house I'd like her to avoid the house when I am not home and return her key.
* Credit Cards - She still has two credit cards that are in my name. I would like to cancel them, or give her the option to continue to use them but pay the bills like she has. She has no cards in her name that I know of. Maybe I give her a week to get a card of her own?
* Cell phone - I'd like her to pay her share of the bill, I shouldn't have to pay for a device she uses to text and talk to her OM's. Maybe I tell her to have her phone moved to her own account?
* Game Tickets - There are still a number of games left on our season tickets. I would like to sell them and split the profit for the ones that do not get used.
Any thoughts?
Should I give it more time, she has only been gone two days?
Should I put all these in a short email?
It is LONG past the time your finances should be split, ESPECIALLY her paying for her own cellphone. I would not ASK, I would DO all of the above, then send her a short business-like email letting her know so that she can make other arrangements.
That's what I did.
Starsky
Thank-you Starsky. I will just DO, not ask. As Sandi kind of put it her other thread, I will stop enabling her behavor on my dime.
Hijack alert....
Starsky, could you please head over and help out Old Dog? I will not be around for the rest of the day.
Thanks much, Burger. How about a burger for you Burger, Burger?
I will always take a burger!
She was upset that I cancelled the credit cards, but there was a pending charge on there for more video game loot. I can't support that. She also noted that she needs her phone so I told her she could have some time to get that switched over. It is her only communication with our kids, I won't take that from her.
She also accused me of being unfair, and how I wasn't perfect either. She then accused me of deciding that I don't want to even try to work things out.
Not sure if I should have but I replied that I want to fix things and I am willing to give her the time needed to decide what she wants.
I did not cave to her complaining about having no money for a place to stay now. I was tempted to help her out with my other credit card, but I held out on rescuing her. I'm working on tough love.
I think I did good, not perfect, but she will have to live with consequences of her actions. Probably have to stay with her friend a while longer.
she will have to live with consequences of her actions
Yes. And I hear what you're saying about the phone being her only communication-connection to the kids, but I would shut it down immediately, too. She made choices. In the real world, bad choices have consequences. If she doesn't want you, she doesn't get your income/stability, either.
Brace for the spew. And stand tall.
She can get (and pay for) her own cellphone plan. Anyone communicating with an OP will have their own up and running within four hours of shutting their line down. Mine did.
No way in hell should you pay for the means to conduct her affair. No way.
Starsky
Yep. Mine did, too. In far less than four hours, actually.
Just like a druggie looking for their next fix.....at all costs.
Precisely, Wonka. Affairs are like crack. And we all know by now: Crack is WHACK.
Thank-you Train and Starsky.
With the phone taken care of I finally have no more reasons to contact her, and I WILL NOT look for any. Once she finds a place to live she will need to come get her stuff, but until that happens I’m free to work on me.
My therapist will be happy too, I was too consumed with my relationship and her while living in the same house to make a lot of progress. I had a very hard time detaching from her. Even when I was doing my GAL activities I was worried about what mood she would be in when I got home.
Now I can just let her go and start working on me.
Burger, it'll be hard. Nothing about these sitches is easy. But I don't think my sitch would have turned as quickly as it did if H and I would have been living together or still sharing a cell-phone plan/bank account. You will be able to detach from her in half the time now that she won't be there, right in your face, and you've separated things to minimize contact and your ability to look into what she's doing. The downside is she won't have as many opportunities to see your changes. BUT, I think it's hard to make genuine changes and progress when, as you said, you're consumed with her/the relationship while living together.
Just be sure to really ROCK it when you DO know you'll be interacting with her. Let your light shine!
Thanks for the encouraging words Train.
I really feel it is for the best that we are now separate. I was becoming too much of a doormat with her always saying she needed more time to decide what she wants. I was living in a state of limbo just waiting and waiting for a sign from her.
I really stood up for myself during the argument before she left, I couldn’t deal with the lies and deception anymore. It was, and is, the time for tough love.
Thank-you everyone for helping me survive this far.
Question for the group....
I'm behaving myself and not contacting her. She just forwarded me email about a special event coming in 2 weeks that is part of our season ticket package. There was no note from her, just the email forward.
I'm not going to attempt to read her wayward mind.
Do I ask her if she would like to attend with me? Seems a bit soon for that. Especially since I have no indication that her EA's are over.
Maybe just say: Thank-you, maybe I'll see you there?
Any thoughts?
You may want to tone it down a little - maybe I'll see you there sounds a little like pursuit. How about - thanks for forwarding these. I'll try and get along to that one..
Perfect, that's just what I was looking for, a non-pursuit response.
Thank-you.
It's not about the kids, and it contains no question. I wouldn't reply.
Had a good visit with my therapist this morning. We talked about what happens if W suddenly decides she wants to come home and work on things.
I told her that I would not allow W return home until there was some commitment to MC and I'm ready for her to come to home, which may be a while. I think I read a Starsky post somewhere that it is a big mistake to just open the door back up to my W.
My therapist had me gather a list of topics and questions that I will need answers to, before deciding on how to proceed.
I even got a talking point ready in case this ever happens:
"W, I’m glad to hear you are willing to talk about our M. Please let me know your availability and I will schedule something with a MC to get started."
Does this sound like a good plan to keep in my back pocket?
Does this sound like a good plan to keep in my back pocket?
Yes
Just as long as you are still wearing the pants with the pocket when that happens.
Until then keep living your life.
My wayward left her ring behind when she left.
If I take mine off does it signal I'm moving on, kind of a tough love thing?
Or would it signal a pathetic attempt for her attention?
That's a personal decision. Don't do it for a reaction - one way or the other - from your W. Do what is authentic to YOU.
Thank you. I will keep wearing it, it feels right.
I think I'm starting to overthink things again. *deep breaths*
I've been doing well this week so far.
I suspect at some point this weekend W will want to come by to get some more of her stuff. I’ll have to wait and see, but I will not bend over backward to accommodate her. If I have plans and will not be home, she will have to come at a different time.
I’m thinking that while she is in the house:
I will let her initiate any conversations. I will then be friendly, courteous, and keep conversations brief when they happen.
I will not help her pack or load things, I’m not going to help her leave me.
I will not offer any financial assistance, no matter how much I want to help her out.
I will not be a sad wimpy looking mess. I will be strong, happy, and confident.
I will not follow her around the house, but I will keep an eye on what is leaving the house.
I will not get trapped into another argument.
Any other tips for how to behave if she does show up?
That's a personal decision. Don't do it for a reaction - one way or the other - from your W. Do what is authentic to YOU.
Yep. This ^^^ is pretty much the consensus view on the forum on this often-discussed topic.
Starsky
I've been doing well this week so far.
I suspect at some point this weekend W will want to come by to get some more of her stuff. I’ll have to wait and see, but I will not bend over backward to accommodate her. If I have plans and will not be home, she will have to come at a different time.
I’m thinking that while she is in the house:
I will let her initiate any conversations. I will then be friendly, courteous, and keep conversations brief when they happen.
I will not help her pack or load things, I’m not going to help her leave me.
I will not offer any financial assistance, no matter how much I want to help her out.
I will not be a sad wimpy looking mess. I will be strong, happy, and confident.
I will not follow her around the house, but I will keep an eye on what is leaving the house.
I will not get trapped into another argument.
Any other tips for how to behave if she does show up?
That sounds like a pretty good list to me. You may find that it calms your nerves to remind yourself that you do NOT have to make any decisions, or even get drawn into any relationship conversations with her. Know ahead of time how you will respond (example: "Wow, I'll have to think about that." Or "I really don't want to discuss this right now; let me know how much longer you're going to be -- I'll be out back working on ______." Or whatever.
Thank-you for the feedback and the idea to have some responses ready ahead of time. That will help a lot.
She emailed me asking to stop by tomorrow to get some things, I proposed a time when I would be home and she agreed.
I will be ready this time.
Good luck today Burger. Remember to stay calm. You sound pretty well prepared. Just remember those responses and remember you can leave the room if you start to get upset. Although you will probably want to be in another room/out back most of the time anyway. You might also want to think about and prepare yourself for what you will do if she spews, and how you will handle that (e.g. "I will speak to you later when we can have a civil conversation" and then walk away)
Thank-you everyone for your help with this. I'm prepared this time, last time she just showed up unannounced and caught me off guard. I'm dressed nice, in clothes I haven't fit into in years. I'm feeling nervous, but surprisingly calm.
She was all business when she got here. Came in and immediately started gathering up some things. She didn't say much and I kept out of the way. Took a lot of stuff with her. Lots and lots of clothes, some food and even some booze.
I think I held up well, while she was here. When she left she started crying and gave me long hug. Then I started crying too as I held her. I didn’t want to let go. She said she was sorry and has a lot of stuff to work out. I told her to let me know if I could help, and that I'm here if she wants to talk. I also told her that I had a part in this as well, and I am working on some things too. I told to her "don't forget that I love you." I kissed the top of her head like old times. She was very remorseful. Maybe she is taking a small step forward in her recovery.
Even if she doesn't come back to our marriage, I still want her to get better.
I then met a friend from work for lunch. It was really nice to catch up and talk about some other things for a change.
My children are both adults now, in their early 20's. How should I deal with questions about what is happening to their parents?
For now all I've told them is that there were some problems and your mother is finding a new place to live while she works on some things.
I don't want to tell them the details of what is going on, but I also don't want to lie to them either if they ask a direct question, there have been enough lies in this family lately.
Is it up to my W to tell them about the EA, when (if?) she ever feels ready?
Stolen from the Mozza thread:
But once you find yourself, you won't be saddled - or at least feel burdened - with the same questions you have right now. Because you KNOW you'll be okay, no matter who (or where) your W ends up being. That's why this journey is actually more about saving yourself than your M. Saving your M, if it ends up being worth saving, is just the coveted "icing" - an oft "natural consequence," if you will, of you loving ... truly LOVING ... who you see looking back at you when you look in a mirror. Because that kind of self-love and self-awareness and self-confidence is powerful. And it will make you irresistible to *anyone* worth her salt.
After reading that it is starting to finally sink in that this is very much about me. I am responsible for 50% of the problems in the M. This is becoming my focus now that WW is no longer living at home.
I’m starting to make progress on me.
I think it's imperative to tell our children the truth at all times, in an age-appropriate way. However I know it's an extremely difficult decision.
In my sitch, I did immediately tell the truth to our two adult daughters, then 18 and 20 years old. I told our S-then-14 a couple of months later when he asked me a direct question, and I decided I wasn't going to lie to him (I told him only that "Yes, Mommy has a boyfriend, and it's wrong for married people to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend other than their husband or wife. That's what we've been fighting about lately"). I told S-then-11 only that "mommy and daddy are having some problems" type of thing.
As it turned out, D18 already knew about her mother's affair, and had been holding that burden to herself for about a month, as she didn't want to tell me and break my heart. It was a good opportunity for us to support each other.
Starsky
Talk went ok with S, later on with D was a little difficult. But we made it through. She did get upset about what her mother is doing, I told her nothing more than there are boyfriends from a game that have spilled into real life and she is in what’s called an emotional affair now.
Not much to report on the W, been very quiet since she stopped in for a visit over the weekend. I did get an email forward from her about our season tickets. But no comments, just the forwarded content. I did not respond to her. If there is no question, or it doesn’t involve the kids or finance, I’m assuming it is just a temperature check as Sandi calls it.
On the GAL front, I have a busy evening planned, dinner with an old friend I haven’t seen in a while, and then meeting another friend for a drink later tonight.
Yesterday was a good day. I’ve been able to focus much better at work the last couple of days and am getting lots done.
Had a great therapy appointment after work, going to work on self-esteem for the next couple of weeks to try and re-build some of that which went missing.
Dinner with my friend was great, he went through a divorce 12 years ago and has been a great source of support. He is one friend who keeps telling me to not give up hope, no matter how dark it looks. Keep hanging in there until you are sure there is no chance of reconciliation.
I did send the WW an email this morning, some mail she asked me to look for arrived. I kept it short. Maybe I can have my D home when she comes to get it so I can be ‘busy’ elsewhere.
Keep hanging in there until you are sure there is no chance of reconciliation.
The point is you need to detach.
There can always be hope as long as it is inside of you.
But you need to let go of the rope, strip, thread.
And then progress can be made.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank-you for the reminder. I'm still working through detaching.
For some reason it's a concept that has been hard for me to grasp. I've read the link from your welcome post many times, and it often comes up in books I've read the last couple months.
I think something my therapist and I talked about last night has made it start to click: She mentioned how I often say I feel like a part of me is missing now. She said our goal is for me to feel complete as a person individually. Then a relationship with another person would enhance me, not fill a void in me as a person.
It’s kind of hard to explain, does that make sense.
She mentioned how I often say I feel like a part of me is missing now. She said our goal is for me to feel complete as a person individually. Then a relationship with another person would enhance me, not fill a void in me as a person.
It’s kind of hard to explain, does that make sense.
Yes that makes perfect sense.
I was reading some posts on another site. They recommend telling family and friends about the affair to get their help in ending the affair. Specifically they mention her parents as people to get involved. Currently she has not even told them that she has moved out of the house. I’ve been hesitant to involve them, figuring it is up to her when she tells them.
I’m of the opinion that if I tell my in-laws about her behavior it will only make things worse.
Am I off the mark, should I get her parents involved?
DB does not advocate exposure, Burger. There are other sites, as you've found, who do and where you can better get your questions answered.
I personally wouldn't (and didn't, in my sitch) lie to the in-laws if asked a direct question.
Starsky
Thank-you. I agree that not exposing her business is best right now. I also feel that DB gives me the best odds right now.
I will not cover up for her though if they ask what is going on.
I’m really enjoying my GAL activities. I'm re-connecting with so many friends I haven’t seen in what seems like years. Even doing new things with them.
Last night I had a nice dinner and spent a few hours talking with a friend that I used to work with. It was so nice to catch up. We've always just talked at work, or at a post work happy hour. But this was the first time talking outside of a work function.
I've decided that even if the WW eventually comes back, I will not lose this new found time with my old and new friends.
Today is starting out tough.
She came by the house to pick up more stuff yesterday. It’s hard watching her pack up things to leave me.
There was a little bit of talk about how she is going to find a new doctor, and then start looking for a therapist.
She did cry and talk about how hard this is. It was really hard to not tell her I love her and miss her and how much I want her to come home and work on things. Instead I tried to use some validating statements: “I care about your feelings. Let me know if you want to talk about anything, or even if you want me to just shut up and listen.”
Unlike her last visit I did not cry while she was at the house. Thankfully I was able to appear strong and hold off until after she left.
I feel like I’m doing an ok job with letting her go. I don’t initiate any communication. I only use brief replies when she contacts me first.
This is so much harder than I ever imagined it would be.
She did cry and talk about how hard this is. It was really hard to not tell her I love her and miss her and how much I want her to come home and work on things. Instead I tried to use some validating statements: “I care about your feelings. Let me know if you want to talk about anything, or even if you want me to just shut up and listen.”
Careful -- you don't want to fall into "gay boyfriend" territory if your goal is still to re-attract her.
A better response would be "I know, this has been incredibly difficult for all of us."
Starsky
Thank-you for the reminder. I now remember that from one of the Sandi threads.
I want the position of Husband, not friend. Anyone can be her friend.
BINGO. You can't "nice" them back into attraction with you.
Good talk with my DB coach yesterday. We talked about some of the validating statements and how to make them more personal for next time I need one. I need to work on my role in what has caused so much resentment from her that escaping into a game and the affairs became an option for her.
She suggested that while it goes against my detaching, that I spend some time on these questions:
Where did I fell short in meeting her needs?
Where did I drop the ball?
What would she tell her therapist the biggest issue was?
What hurt her heart so much?
What got her to this place?
I need to soul search and think about all the things she has brought up so I can really understand what impact my actions, or lack of actions, has had on her. I need to understand her emotions to the best of my ability and really emphasize to her how what I did hurt her and I understand how painful it must be for her.
I've come up with a couple so far:
- I think she felt neglected and that other things took precedence over her emotional needs. Especially when I was working all the time and she was home by herself with the kids in the early years of our marriage.
- I think she has felt overwhelmed. Especially with having to do almost all (99%) of the cooking and cleaning for the entire family during our marriage.
Once I have a list, and begin to understand how I hurt her, I can work to correct that behavior with my therapist, and then turn them into a validating statement so she knows I understand some of my role in this.
I think this is what I am aiming for:
“I really care about how much pain I have caused you, especially when I think of how overwhelmed you must have been doing all the cooking and cleaning without help from me.”
Any thoughts?
So long as it's used for thoughtful self-introspection and to validate her feelings, I have no problem with it. If it's used to try to get some reaction out of your wife, or if for example you take the "she felt neglected" to mean that you should now PURSUE her, I'd be strongly against that in her current wayward state.
But yeah, you gotta understand your part in the dysfunction that led to her destructive decisions. Otherwise, you're doomed to repeat them, be it in this relationship or in a future one with someone else.
Starsky
you gotta understand your part in the dysfunction that led to her destructive decisions.
Otherwise, you're doomed to repeat them, be it in this relationship or in a future one with someone else.
I think this bears repeating over and over!
Cause I may be repeating but it is not what you want to do!
Thanks for clearing that up. These are for more personal validations, and to let her know I understand my role in this.
I need to make sure I fix me so this does not happen again with her, if we decide to try and fix things, or with whomever I end up with in the future. I will be a better man when this chapter is over.
you gotta understand your part in the dysfunction that led to her destructive decisions.
Otherwise, you're doomed to repeat them, be it in this relationship or in a future one with someone else.
I think this bears repeating over and over!
Cause I may be repeating but it is not what you want to do!
It is definitely not easy to look at yourself in the mirror and find all these flaws. After spending the day looking at me and my memories I can't imagine why she would ever want to come back.
My list now has examples of where I can see how she has felt:
Abandoned
Neglected
Alone
Not cared for
Like I didn't care about her
And I have multiple examples of each one. It's kind of depressing.
I think the first step is forgiving yourself.
I think the first step is forgiving yourself.
Thank-you HeavyD!
I see my therapist later today. I have quite the list to go over. My first question will be about your first step.
It also seems like some of these are things that I can change now that I have taken the time to think about them. For example she could have felt overwhelmed having to do almost all the housework and cooking is something I’m already addressing with a 180.
Or how she could feel alone or ignored when I would get depressed and clam up for a day or two. I’m now on better medication and working through depression with my therapist, and psychiatrist.
Hey Burger, thanks for stopping by the other day. I've just caught up with you, here...
A lot of helpful advice to coping on this thread, looks like you're doing great. I'm sorry for everything you're going through. The one wise thing my H said to me the day we decided to S months ago - no matter what happens, we'll be better on the other side.
I believe that now for me, and offer the sentiment to you. Becoming a whole happy person looks like a wonderful thing. I know I have seen people laughing, carrying on with exuberance, and I can't remember the last time I felt that - M or S. So, we'll get there.
Thank-you for the kind words Zelda. I really appreciate you stopping by and sharing them.
I do believe I'm becoming a better person than I was just three months ago. My therapist today thinks I'm moving in the right direction, and working on the right things.
It just takes a lot of work to change. But I'm determined to get there.
I don't even like roller coasters. Now I'm stuck on one.
One side effect of all this personal reflection is that I'm starting to question if I was really happy in the marriage. As I dig into things I did that hurt her, I recall her behaviors that have hurt my heart over the years.
My memories are becoming clouded.
Maybe I need to step away from this for a couple of days.
I don't even like roller coasters. Now I'm stuck on one.
One side effect of all this personal reflection is that I'm starting to question if I was really happy in the marriage. As I dig into things I did that hurt her, I recall her behaviors that have hurt my heart over the years.
My memories are becoming clouded.
Maybe I need to step away from this for a couple of days.
There's nothing wrong with BOTH the wayward and the betrayed spouse to take this opportunity to re-assess their pre-affair marriage. I certainly did! It helped me begin to tear down the whole "Mrs. Starsky on a Pedestal," princess image I had of her and learn to begin to deal in a more healthy way with my love for her as SHE REALLY WAS, flaws and all. In the end, it STRENGTHENED our marriage, not weakened it, and she even told me that part of the problem she had with me before her affair was that she was afraid I didn't really love her for who she was, but rather she felt like I had some inflated, up-on-a-pedestal image of her that I was in love with and that she couldn't possibly ever live up to.
If you two do get the opportunity to reconcile, Burger, you're SUPPOSED to begin working on a brand new marriage together, learning from what each of you did right and did wrong before.
You need to decide if those things -- those flaws -- in your wife, pre-bomb-drop, are just minor (or even pretty major) flaws . . . but she's still basically a good woman of character and integrity with whom you have a lot of shared history and strong emotional connection . . . OR, if they are "dealbreakers" for you.
In my situation, we had 20+ years of mostly a very good marriage, and she was a very good wife and mother. She screwed up, and I played a role, so it was easy for me to re-start with that understanding as we headed into piecing. For some other posters, they begin to have their eyes open and see their wife or husband's affair as just "more of the same" questionable behavior from them, and NOT as a just a huge and destructive misstep along the way of an otherwise life of integrity.
Ask God to give you clarity as you think about it all.
Starsky
Thank-you Starsky,
I am still hoping to reconcile someday, and I do realize that the M as it was is gone. So is Burger and Mrs. Burger. We will need to create M 2.0 with the new Burger 2.0 and Mrs. Burger 2.0
Hopefully that can work, only time will tell. I do believe this is just a huge misstep for WW.
I'm starting to see the major factor behind almost every behavior issue I find in me and her was a severe lack of communication. If something bothered me, I internalized it. Same for her. If we went through a larger bump in the road, once things felt better, we just swept it under the rug.
I guess with so much [censored] under that rug the M was bound to topple.
While very busy with my GAL activities this weekend I got a note from my WW.
She apologized for everything that has happened, how I created an environment that didn't meet her emotional needs, how old problems surfaced when all this started, and she talked about how hard her life is right now.
She mentioned that she is starting therapy this week. And how she looks forward to our weekly talks. She mentioned how much she has lost: kids, house, dog, and me.
I replied and used many validating statements, and mentioned some of the statements my DB Coach suggested last week to really emphasize specific examples of how I have hurt her in the past, to let her know I understand what my actions did.
Am I wrong to get my hopes up that maybe there is a crack in the fog?
"Am I wrong to get my hopes up that maybe there is a crack in the fog?"
Hi Burger, that does sound interesting from your W. And it's good that she is starting therapy - great, that's an action. The rest is all 'talk' and I wouldn't rush into feeling all hopeful. Best to keep your expectations at zero - then you won't be disappointed - only pleasantly surprised!
You'll have read on the forum that very few sitches get resolved quickly. Most take 9+ months. Many much longer. So yours would be 'quick' and I think it's best to assume that, yes your W is feeling some impact here - but there may be a winding road ahead.
What I would say is that it sounds as though your approach is working, and I would stick with it!
Good luck to you Burger :-)
Thank you Toots,
I will keep my fingers crossed, and not get my hopes up. I will continue with what I'm doing and wait for her to reach out like I have been doing. It's tough not to try and influence her, but I will hold steady.
Very busy weekend for me, lots of GAL activities. I fear I may have to cut back a bit on them, the chores are starting to pile up.
The WW had her weekly visit over the weekend. She re-iterated how she has a lot of work to do to make herself better, and how it will take a long time.
She mentioned that if we have a future together, she hopes she realizes it before it’s too late. That phrase worried me a little.
I’m going continue what I’m doing and hope she finds a good therapist who can help her.
While very busy with my GAL activities this weekend I got a note from my WW.
She apologized for everything that has happened, how I created an environment that didn't meet her emotional needs, how old problems surfaced when all this started, . . .
I would be extremely careful in answering things like this in writing. Anything that could be used to show "culpability" is best done verbally, sadly.
Starsky
That's the tough part, we've very rarely discussed things verbally. That's also the common theme to almost all the problems we have encountered.
Decided to take a break yesterday evening. No journal, no self-help book reading, and no workout. Just me and some hobby time. It was nice to put everything down for an evening and clear my head a bit.
I also received confirmation that the WW has her first therapist appointment scheduled.
I think I may have been suckered into a temperature check by her with the note over the weekend. I've been very happy with the few little emails from her now and then. I felt bad after reading her note about she has lost everything and is all alone.
This afternoon I realized that none of the 'talk' really means anything. I need to look for actions. I have no proof that she has stopped her internet flirting, or that she has 'broken' up with her EA men.