Starting a new thread because that last one got quite pathetic with my neediness and emotional decline. I need a fresh start. I still don't know what I want--to save or not to save this train wreck of a marriage. To make the first move or wait for him to end it. I know I am busy and overwhelmed with everything going on between my marital issues, my kids needs and desires, my extended family disasters, and my new job (which I am so extremely grateful for and enjoy immensely, but is so much more work and stress than I ever imagined). I'm really feeling pulled in a thousand directions right now.
I really just need to focus on me. And I want this thread to be more proactive and positive than my last one where I think I spent a lot of time being the victim.
So I need some advice. I never get to go out with friends, partly because I don't have many in the area where I am currently living. I have gotten close with some work friends but we don't really get together much outside of work. And all of my other friends around here are connected to H through his job in some way, and I kind of want to avoid anyone connected to his work community. I am really feeling stifled by that world right now. H has a very active social life that I am rarely a part of, and now I am not a part of at all. I have been spending a lot of weekends at my parents with the kids, but this weekend I stuck around because of questionable weather forecasts and the kid's plans.
So I was trying to make some plans tonight with some work friends. I mentioned to H that I was hoping to have a night out tonight so that he would be available for the kids. He seemed fine with it, then later while I was grocery shopping he sent me a text asking me to let him know what my plans were because he "is dreading being here this weekend". So pretty much he is saying, if I don't have plans to go out tonight, then he will make sure he has a night out. I replied "I am to," and left it at that.
This really pisses me off. I know I am mind reading, but I think he thinks I am bluffing and he is trying to one up me by proving to me that it is a lot easier for him to have a social life then me. I know if he goes out tonight he will not come home--just like he has been doing--although surprisingly he did not go out last weekend.
Anyway, my plans fell through. No one is available. I haven't told him yet, because I don't know what to do. He was leaving to run errands and he told me again to let him know what my plans are, this time he asked in front of my daughter. I replied that I was waiting to hear back from some people. He said "ok" and left. Of course as soon as he left D11 started in, "why do you have to wait for people to get back to you?" "Where are you going?" "Why can't we just go to grandma's and grandpa's instead of you going out?".
I have a lot of work to do, and probably should just stay home. But I really want to just GAL. To show that I am not just home all the time and that I can have a social life to. But now I have no plans, and I feel guilty because D11 doesn't want me to go. And I know that I can probably still just leave, maybe see a movie by myself, Maybe even get a late night oil change at the dealer (not an innuendo, I really need an oil change and my dealer is opened until midnight). Or I can admit that I have nothing to do tonight, stay home and get some work done and spend time at home with my kids--right now that sounds like the better option, except that he will go and do what I was hoping to be able to do for the first time in a long time--and he does all of the time.
So, what would you do if you were in the situation? I think my biggest motivation in making myself busy is so that he will have to stay home. That, I know, is manipulative and codependent--something I am trying to overcome. But I also really just want to get back on that GAL track, and doing anything to be busy and out of the house is important. I want to not be home wondering where he is and if or when he will be home. Which is easier to do when I am not home.
It's just that if I don't have real plans, I would prefer to stay home then to run some late night errands and sit in a movie theater alone when I can be in my PJs getting some work done. UGH.
I have no advice, but I am in pretty much the same situation as you regarding GAL! So I am posting so I can follow. I do have problems and I guess at this stage it's a kind of resentment. My husband gets to have the life of Riley, off socializing more, doing what he wants when he wants, actually getting our more than when we were together. I wonder why we couldn't do all these things while we together, why now? I wanted to get out and do all these things before with him and our family!
I hear you on that end--the super-dad that has come out, making all sorts of fun plans with the kids that I had long ago suggested we do as a family. But part of me knows he won't maintain it. That helps me stay positive despite the resentment. I have no idea what he is doing when he goes out. Before he used to go out but I always knew where he was. I used to drop him off. Sometimes he would order us some take out from the bar he hung out at and I would stop by to pick it up. He even invited me along some times. Now he has found a different stomping ground and is staying with other friends. No one picks him up or drops him off. He won't even say who he is meeting up with. I don't think there is an OW, but I think he is playing games. He likes that it drives me crazy. I have to stop letting him know that it drives me crazy--or just simply stop letting it drive me crazy. If I had a social life that would be a lot easier.
I would just go some where. Drop the car off and find a cafe to have coffee go see a movie. Anything.
Just get away from the place fir a few hours let him watch the kids. It will do him good.
I took ggrass advice. He still wasn't home and I asked him when he would be. He said "when you need me to". So yeah he spent the day away waiting for me to tell him I had no plans. So I said "I'm leaving at 7". He came home at 6:45. I got I. The car and starting driving to the mall. Figured I'd walk around the mall. Maybe catch a movie. But then I said "f this I want a night out not mall and a movie". So I came back to my local train station and hopped a train to the city. I'm having appetizers and a beer or two at a little Irish pub then I'll head back. I told my cousin where I was just for safety reasons. But I love the freedom I feel right now. ill have 2 beers and a cup of coffee before catching the next train back.
Wow, now I feel like I should have ordered you to talk to the first human you saw on your night out, hot and male optional!
Mustard seed you kicked a big one. I cannot go out out locally alone mainly as too many people know me and want to gossip. I go out I control it. I talk to men and people at work I talk first I set the tone. I drive my bus, and tonight I feel you grabbed r
The wheel right out of his hands. Well done.
Take a calculated risk, be safe. It will make you feel so much better. I have traveled so by myself just me and s to family while with h. Going interstate by plane alone after bd, was empowering.
I'm on the train on the way home now. The only person I spoke to besides the bartender and train conductors was the guy I crashed into when I realized I entered penn station from an enter acne I wasn't familiar with and was looking at signs rather than where I was going lol.
It was a good night. Next time I'll be more social. This time I was more concerned with making the last train back. The weekend trains are few and far between on my line.
Pretty sure that's a huge score on the vanilla gal scale.
The funny thing is I ised to do this sort of stuff a lot before I met him, but they always ended in bad decisions. im not 24 years old anymore and I don't know if it is maturity that made me wiser or if it is just that bad decisions aren't as attracted to almost 40 somethings. But this was a much more responsible version of that girl I used to be.
Shows how far you have come from those days doesn't it?
Life's a journey. A real journey not often as we expect. It Can be as fun or not as we choose. When you choose we choose our own consequences weather we like them or not.
I took ggrass advice. He still wasn't home and I asked him when he would be. He said "when you need me to". So yeah he spent the day away waiting for me to tell him I had no plans. So I said "I'm leaving at 7". He came home at 6:45. I got I. The car and starting driving to the mall. Figured I'd walk around the mall. Maybe catch a movie. But then I said "f this I want a night out not mall and a movie". So I came back to my local train station and hopped a train to the city. I'm having appetizers and a beer or two at a little Irish pub then I'll head back. I told my cousin where I was just for safety reasons. But I love the freedom I feel right now. ill have 2 beers and a cup of coffee before catching the next train back.
Amazing mustard seed. Gets maximum GAL points of 5 for pure bravery and chutzpah.
Inspirational.
Vanilla
I knew you would approve nilla.
Like my getting dressed at work and dissappearing on a hot date with the bf!
Who is an x racing dawg! Lol
So something I didn't mention last night, because I just wanted to focus on GAL, but before I went out I had a talk with him.
I don't know if it was the right thing to do, but it felt right. I had to let him know how I was feeling. And I think it felt right because this was the first time in a long time I had a talk with him where I wasn't trying to make him feel something. I had no ulterior motive except to say, "This is how your actions are affecting me."
I pretty much told him how I felt like he was playing games. How I resent the fact that I spent our marriage accommodating his choices and I didn't mind at the time because I believed in him, but now that he made it clear he doesn't have my best interests at heart I don't see why I still have to be accommodating his choices. I told him that if he wants out of the marriage then fine--go--but don't expect me to once again accommodate your choices by having to make all of the sacrifices.
I told him how I don't think it is right that just because he wants to give up the marriage that means that I have to give up my home and 50% of my time with the kids.
I told him how I think moving in with my parents would help me financially, and if it wasn't for the kids I would be there already. But D11 isn't really on board with the move. She doesn't want to change schools and doesn't want to have the long commute which she kind of had a taste of last week when H and she were staying with friends--house-sitting/babysitting --and that commute was only half the distance of what it will be when we are living with my folks. I told him how if I have to move out there either I am the one who will be held responsible for changing their lives in a way they don't want it to change, or I will have to give up a good chunk of my time with them. A sacrifice that I don't think I should have to make since none of this is my idea to begin with!
I felt strong, and confident when I was telling him these things. I know there is nothing DB about it, but I needed him to hear it. I needed to get back my dignity. The dignity that the back and forth of neediness and coldness I have been playing at the past couple of months had cost me. I had to tell him why I am having such a hard time accepting the separation--not because he is he end all be all of my life--but that his decision to not even try to see if the marriage is slavageable and his lack of movement on getting himself out of this marriage that he claims he hates--while he waits for me to make all of the changes--is unfair. I am not going to play by his rules. I am not going to give up 50% of my time with my kids. And I am not going to be the one they blame when they have to give up the things in their lives that are important to them.
I told him that I don't know if our marriage is worth saving at this point. But I told him that I don't think we have ever even gotten to the point of trying so how do we even know. I brought up how he was all gung ho about fixing things back in September until I started bringing up some tough issues that sent him running again. I told him that I know I was far from a perfect wife, but I always had his back.
I don't really expect anything from that conversation, at least not on his end. But I do feel like I had a nice healthy purge and that I got myself out of that needy, clingy, victim role, and back into a, "this is my life, and you are not in control anymore" frame of mind.
I feel good. I still don't know what I am going to do, but I do know it is not going to be dependent on what he wants me to do.
Anyway, he didn't say much. He listened. He didn't get angry. I think he really just heard me out. He made a few comments about how s13 has been acting differently around him. He was a little accusatory with that, as if I had something to do with it. I think S13 is feeling really protective of me, and I think that pathetic zone I was in might be why. I told him I am trying to be strong around them, but I am sure they sense when I am shaken, as much as I try to hide it. And when he does things to piss me off (like disappearing and not giving any indication about when we can expect him home) I'm sure the kids sense that. Not only that, but in a few years when the kids decide to follow his example with not telling us the necessary details of their comings and goings we are going to be in big trouble. I mean, this has nothing to do with "policing" each other, but common courtesy--at least that was how I was raised. If nothing else then just a general idea of when you expect to be home.
I guess maybe there was a little bit of lecturing, but for the most part I am happy with how I handled myself. I feel like I have gotten back my dignity and pride, and took back the reins. Now I just have to keep them.
Wow, now I feel like I should have ordered you to talk to the first human you saw on your night out, hot and male optional!
Mustard seed you kicked a big one. I cannot go out out locally alone mainly as too many people know me and want to gossip. I go out I control it. I talk to men and people at work I talk first I set the tone. I drive my bus, and tonight I feel you grabbed r
The wheel right out of his hands. Well done.
Take a calculated risk, be safe. It will make you feel so much better. I have traveled so by myself just me and s to family while with h. Going interstate by plane alone after bd, was empowering.
I also could never go out alone locally. We are both teachers in the area, so there would be lots of people who I may or may not recognize who would be quick to gossip--coworkers, parents--who knows. But that is why the city is the perfect option. I also worry about having a drink and driving--we have always had a zero tolerance rule with that. Going to the city solves that problem the city is an hour train ride away so switching to coffee or water before leaving, then having that hour ride home gives my body the time to recover from any buzz I might have gotten, and it is only about a mile drive from the train station back to the house.
Also, it isn't so strange to be sitting at a bar alone in the city. I figured if anyone asked me why I was alone I could just say I was waiting for the next train out--which was kind of true. Of course no one asked. LOL It wasn't a very hopping place. Next time I'll find a place with more people. There were a lot of younger people, and it is funny how this new generation of young adults rarely talk to each other. Two 20-somethings sitting next to me were texting the whole time they were there. They didn't say anything to each other or anyone else except for when they ordered their drinks. It's a different world than it was in 2000. I probably need to find an older crowd. Happy hour is probably best.
In my towns case the gossips will not talk totally behind your back.
They will bail me up pressure me to spill my guts. To Digg dirt, in my case h told people I was the cheater. H said that about xw.
They are looking for a bone. There was no cheating from me it was done to me. I won't disscuss my life never have never will. I will create impression without substance but I won't tell all. I like my private life on the farm too much.
Just enough to add petrol to h!
he needs to know he needs to be in control.
Laughs oh it's your fault I dragged myself from my sick bed to go win a tray of snittys!
Happy to eat those for ya!
snitzels, you know flat meat crumbs veal or chicken. Auto correct can't even spell it so what hope do I?
We are educatining you in strayan! (< say that with loooong nasal drawl)
Strayan I can get
Ah got you, okey doke mmm chicken one sounds goooood.
We can refine you plum in mouth uk posh dudes, and make you
Houso strayan common. ( houso = uk estate govie housing)
Yeah, but no but yeah! Lol
Bounces off, man I do wish the nose drip would pith off!
This is becoming some bizarre version of pigmalion now 'enry'iggins.....
LOL. I think I need a UK/american translator.
I find the best way to read forums is phonetically and often what you read makes more sense if you read out loud.
Ie pith with a lisp sounds like a swear Improper word you would get sensored on.
You know fire truck... Think mustard some stuff rhymes
Persisting down rain very polite way to say absolutely pithing down.
Oh houso = trailer trash in USA
Although houso is short for housing commision which is subsidised houses for the poor.
Any adventures recently mustard Seed?
V
I have been better keeping my emotions in check. My birthday was a couple of weeks ago and I was a bit emotional in the morning, but then made a decision to grow up and let go. I have been trying really hard to just act as if. I don't even know what I want. If this is it, I want it done. If there is still a chance--I want it to work out. Our anniversary was the same week as my birthday and it passed without mention.
A couple of days ago he asked me why I am still here. Not sure if I handled it right or wrong, but it was honest and from the heart. I started off by saying that I really don't like who he is right now but I don't believe this version of him is the real him, and when the decent guy I married returns I hope to still be here for him. And I mentioned about how his friends are getting divorced so I think he is hearing all of the awful ways that their husbands treated them to make them want to leave, and he is trying to do all those awful things to me so I'll do his dirty work and make it easy for him.
Then I kind of changed course.
He is into sports I thought a sports analogy was fitting. I said that I know we haven't been playing our best and we have been taking hits from life but I meant what I said when I took my vows and until I am convinced the game is over I am not going to walk off that field. I said that I am surprised that he went right from being "I love you and we are fine. It is my job that is the problem" to "This isn't working I want a divorce" without even seeing if there is a way to turn this game around. I said something about how I am surprised how with his athletes he makes a big deal about being a team and playing your hardest until the game is over, yet he is ready to just walk off the field in the middle of the game on the most important team of his life. I said that if he feels that quitting is what is best for him, then he can go right ahead--but I am not going to be the one walking off the field until I am sure the game is over.
He hasn't said anything about it. The past few days he clenches up and gets a really angry look on his face whenever I am in the room. The more I think about it the more I wonder why HE is still here? If he is so certain he wants this done why hasn't he taken any steps to make it happen?
I still think so many things will be better if we divorced. But if we can get on the same page they will be fantastic! Maybe it isn't possible, but I don't think we will know that until we learn to communicate. I have know idea what his specific problems are with the marriage. It is all speculation because he is very charming and when he talks he makes you feel like things are getting addressed, but then after you leave the conversation you realize that all you did was talk around things and never really get any answers. I always end up more confused after a conversation. Maybe a healthy relationship with him really isn't possible.
However, I still think about the turmoil that the kids will have to face. Two things I know for sure. I don't want to disrupt their schooling or living situation until I absolutely have to. And I refuse to leave them, even part time, until and unless I absolutely have to. Bottom line--if they live here, I live here!
We currently rent a three bedroom unit from H's employer for $1000/month less then the going rate in this area. If I have to move, my plan is to first move in with my folks to save as much money as possible and pay all of my debts (except my student loan which will take a while), and buy something out by them. Rents by them are the same as out here, but houses are a lot cheaper. That means an hour commute for me and the kids. I don't mind the commute, but for them I would rather not put them through that until I have to.
Now I have another issue that is annoying me. I mentioned that I might be moving to my choir director just to let him know that I might not be around much. I plan to spend more time out of town (at least once the snow melts) and I probably won't be around many weekends. A few members of the choir overheard and figured out it is due to marital issues. They have been kind and supportive although I don't want to discuss it with them. Now this man (who is much older than me) has been annoying me with FB messages offering support and an apartment. When it snows he messages me to see if I got home safe. I ignore as much as possible and I think I am going to just cancel my FB page for a while. I don't use it much. Part of me even wants to just quit choir all together to avoid him. I know there has to be a better more mature way to handle this then to just ignore and blow him off. It is incredibly annoying and when I go to church and choir I want to just be left alone to sing and listen. Now I notice that I get all angry and tense whenever I have to go. I wish I never said anything. I am not close to these people. I am fairly new to the church and choir and while they are all perfectly nice and choir was always enjoyable I don't consider them friends--more like aquaintences, and I am happy with that arrangement. I am not a particularly private person and I don't mind people knowing my business, as long as the respect the boundaries of when I want to talk about it and when I don't. This guy seems to be sniffing around too much and it pisses me off. I'm pretty sure he has ulterior motives and I am not interested in the slightest. This is another reason why I think I should just give up and move out. I don't like living in this town now that people don't think of me as H's wife anymore. I would rather be back in my home town if I am going to have to be a single woman.
Is that all so completely immature of me?
Do you think we are both just waiting for the other to pull the trigger?
I am sitting here this morning fantasizing about what life will be when my marriage is over--and I am looking forward to it. I don't really think I will miss him at all. But I am still hung up on the fantasy of who I thought he was and the marriage I thought was possible with us. That is my ideal. But maybe it was all make-believe. I think I will survive and thrive without him. So why can't I just pull the trigger? What is holding me back? Disrupting the kids is a biggie, but they already have been disrupted and already know that moving in with grandma and grandpa is a real possibility. My aunt told my mother that d11 was talking about how excited she is to be able to baby sit for my cousin's kids once we move out there. At the same time when we are home she keeps saying how she doesn't want to move. I guess they feel a lot of the same back and forth emotions that I do. I really wish they didn't know so much.
I don't think I really want to fight for this marriage anymore. I think one of our biggest marital red flags that we are both non-action sort of people. Well, he is a Gemini and I am a Pisces-both mutable signs. Makes for a lot of indecision--if you believe that stuff. He is trying to make me go, and I am waiting for him to follow through with his words.
My parents are taking a cross country trip this spring. That might be a good time to start my exit plan. When the kids are done with school we can make it permanent. I really hate this.
We sucked at planning for our life together, and we are just as bad about planning for our lives apart. All because we both live in a world of avoidance and poor communication. When I would try and have a discussion with him about something I will get the vibe that he did not want to talk about it, and I would table it for when he was ready which never happened. This was the situation with finances, trips, weekend plans, anything big or small. The only time things got done was when it was a last minute--on a whim--decisions. And we both liked living that way until I realized it was causing major anxiety for me. Maybe I am the one who changed. I started trying to get a little more stability. I craved some sort of safety net or security blanket. And maybe he really feels way to confined when things need to be planned for. Maybe he just cannot handle predictablity and having some sort of a plan for future goals.
When I decided to make decisions and then just present them to him to avoid that cycle and get things done, he would just yes me, but not follow through. When I would just go ahead with things the way I though they should be, he would pull away and separate himself more from me. And then, if we fought, usually because I started pushing too hard and pushed the buttons to get ANY sort of reaction from him, positive or negative, things would blow up and I would get blamed for making all of the decisions. Why am I even fighting for this? Why do I think that he is anything different from who he has always been? The more I think about it the more I think that maybe he didn't change, maybe I did. Thinks went south once I started getting our finances in order. I didn't even touch his spending, all I did was make a plant to get the bills paid on time and plan for big bills coming up. And I hoped that once he got on board we could start planning for bigger things, like buying a home. But instead of it easing his stress he rebelled like a teenager. He gave me the money I needed to pay the bills, but started treating me like his mother.
Maybe this marriage really has nothing left for us?
Mustard
No one can tell you your M is over, not H or any other creepy choir member.
It is over for mustard when she says it is and if she changes her mind she does.
Please Msd get out of H sandbox, do what you do because you want to do it. let H be H and work through his stuff in his own time. Let H be what he wants to be and Msd be who she wants to be. You loved this H for his differences to you and this was how you related to each other. Be free to love that part of H and his difference and allow H respect for those. H seems to be hanging on in there too.
This is confidential to Mustard and you do not have to disclose to H if you do not want to. It is personal. Hold your counsel.
Has Msd looked after her interests and sought up to date legal advice? Please Msd look after yourself and your children.
As for creepy choir drawers, if it were me then I would say STOP and tell him there will be consequences if he does not. You sense this guy is a predator, trust your instinct. If it smells to you like a rotten fish then it most probably is.
You went GAL Msd, please much more, give yourself a break, get some space with your sitch. Hot housing is emotionally draining.
V
Thank you, Vanilla. I have sought legal advice and I retained a lawyer in December. It felt really good to do that because 1-I had the money too. A couple of years ago when he was in charge of the money there never would have been so much as $100 for unexpected expenses, but since I separated my finances and started budgeting I had that money sitting in a buffer fund. It was a blow to go from being a month ahead of everything to being back to month to month. But a couple of years ago I never would have dreamed I could just write a check for that amount and not have it cause complete turmoil. These are the things I can accomplish without him!
When I retained the lawyer she gave me all of the paper work for me to file and I have been slowly filling it out. When I am ready to file, I will really be ready. She touches base with me every once in a while and she knows I am on the fence. She told me that now that NY is a no fault state it doesn't matter who files first and if I need to take my time that is fine.
My other thing is now that I have my finances under control I have a positive balance with money sitting there for various future expenses and a cushion for some minor unknowns. If we get D I don't want to have to split that. It was a lot of hard work for me to get there and that money is for family needs, not my own fun. I know that he probably still ends a pay period with nothing left even though at this point the only bill he is paying is the rent which is automatically deducted from his paycheck before he gets it. I would hate to have to give him half of my sinking fund money and E fund money just because I managed it better than him. But I will clarify that with my lawyer. We make the same amount of money now. Which is amazing because a few months ago I made 1/3 of what he made. And in that short amount of time I was able to make major strides in getting ahead. Even before I got this job I was able to get so much further ahead then he ever could, with my little paychecks that he loved to dismiss as a useless waste of time--simply because I started budgeting and paying attention. What a novel idea--but it still too much for him to handle.
Mustard
This is confidential to Mustard and you do not have to disclose to H if you do not want to. It is personal. Hold your counsel.
As for creepy choir drawers, if it were me then I would say STOP and tell him there will be consequences if he does not. You sense this guy is a predator, trust your instinct. If it smells to you like a rotten fish then it most probably is.
You went GAL Msd, please much more, give yourself a break, get some space with your sitch. Hot housing is emotionally draining.
V
I didn't get to address this part of your post before because I had to go to work. Keeping things to myself is something I have a hard time with. I have never been good at holding things in or keeping secrets, part of why he infuriates me so much because he never shows his cards. But you are right. I don't have to explain my motives to him. I probably need to learn to be a little bit more like him in that way.
As for Choir Guy. I think I really do need to address it. Singing in the choir was one of the things that I really love doing just for me, and I hate that it is so uncomfortable right now.
I have been doing more GAL things. I went away during my week off, and we sort of took turns with the kids, although I ended up getting more time with them because of some cold weather plumbing and electrical issues, so we thought it was best to not have the kids in the house until it was fixed. And last weekend I spent the night (with the kids) at a friends new home which was a lot of fun. This weekend the kids and I are going away again. These things aren't much different than before BD. I traveled a lot with my kids and my family. He used to go but gradually pulled himself out of these trips. I think too much extended family got to him. But I enjoy traveling and we never really could afford it on our own. I also really value extended family--he used to also. Now he pretty much shut himself off from everyone except his work buddies--mostly because they are local, I'm guessing.
Msd
Mind reading dear one, H may have nothing in his head but cotton wool, on the other hand he may be a secret Russian agent. Even if you asked the answer could be different tomorrow. H may hold no cards, he may prefer tennis!
Let H be H, struggle to be H. No labels, as otherwise your thinking will set in stone that which is lava and flowing. Sitches change, H changes, Msd changes. Deal with today Msd, not yesterday or tomorrow. The volcano erupted and now there is the beautiful flowing glowing lava, go near and it will destroy you. Let the lava flow and make its own beautiful forms, lave makes rich fertile soil for growth. It will cool and be warming and will go down hill to the sea.
Msd all you need to know is what Msd wants.
Creepy choir guy can be a practise, I would like to bet this is a repeatable creepiness.
GAL, please Msd I enjoy hearing about your GAL. So more.......
V
V - great lava analogy! Thanks for that one....
Msd
Mind reading dear one, H may have nothing in his head but cotton wool, on the other hand he may be a secret Russian agent. Even if you asked the answer could be different tomorrow. H may hold no cards, he may prefer tennis!
Let H be H, struggle to be H. No labels, as otherwise your thinking will set in stone that which is lava and flowing. Sitches change, H changes, Msd changes. Deal with today Msd, not yesterday or tomorrow. The volcano erupted and now there is the beautiful flowing glowing lava, go near and it will destroy you. Let the lava flow and make its own beautiful forms, lave makes rich fertile soil for growth. It will cool and be warming and will go down hill to the sea.
Msd all you need to know is what Msd wants.
Creepy choir guy can be a practise, I would like to bet this is a repeatable creepiness.
GAL, please Msd I enjoy hearing about your GAL. So more.......
V
Thank you V. You are SO RIGHT. I am always trying to mind-read and it always puts me back in a really bad place. I read H's horoscope every day and my opinion of him changes based on what that random blurb of info tells me he should be going through today. I am deleting the APP right NOW!! Giving it up for lent at least.
I had a fun weekend away. The place we went is a place H and I used to take the kids when they were little. When we used to go the place was pretty new and no one really knew about it. It was always a spur of the moment decision and we have a lot of good memories. It has been at least 5 years since we have been back (I think closer to 7 but I can't really remember). During those 5-7 years we have been planning on going back. Had a gift certificate even. But the place had gotten popular and more expensive and it was impossible to get a room without a reservation--and since we had messed up our credit so bad we didn't have a way to reserve a room. So this time I went back because my sister has a contact who sets up a group rate trip once a year. H never wanted to do it, but this year I figured WTH and my parents were also wanted to go. I am glad I did.
It was fun, but I have to admit it brought back so many good memories, and while I sat in the hot tub alone while my kids--who are now old enough to be on their own in a place like this--did their thing I have to admit I got a little emotional.
I think H might have been feeling the same way because he has been asking the kids a lot more questions than he normally does and has pretty much blown me off. I did invite him to come along since this trip was planned when we were still in that place where I thought we were piecing, but he couldn't--same excuse as always but I know he also didn't want to since my family was involved. (oops, mind reading)
Anyway, I was the only non-coupled adult--it is a very family oriented place and geared for kids. I had some adult time in the 21 and over hot tub, but took advantage of when my kids stopped by to ask me to go on a water slide with them and really didn't spend too much time with the other couples when they were coupled (except my parents). Still, it made me miss him.
But when I thought about it, it wouldn't have been much different if he was there. He likes going off alone even when it was just the four of us. I realized that he really is who he is--I just believed he was someone else. Even when he loved me he wasn't really the "let's just sit here together and enjoy the moment" kind of person. I would have still been alone--but probably not feeling quite so lonely because I still had a connection to him even if I didn't have his presence. I think, back then I would always assume it was because the kids needed so much so we would give each other breaks by taking turns. And when we vacationed with my family my parents would usually give us a night to just go off on our own which we usually took advantage of. But then I got to thinking that even before the kids (which wasn't that much time for us) he always liked to go off on his own every morning and evening when we were away.
He likes his own space. I get that. He also hates waiting around for people or following an itinerary. I am kind of the same way, but somewhere along the line I started taking it personally. And started missing having some sort of frame work in which to plan my day. I think we are a lot a like in all of the wrong ways, and very different in a lot of the right ways.
I think I also started getting used to it to the point where I just started making my own plans with or without him because I never knew if he would be around or not and hated having to wait for him to decide or to let me know what his decision was.
He really didn't change much. But I think I did a two-fold mistake of resenting him for doing his own thing without including me in his plans--but expecting me to go along when he was ready, and giving him total distance by no longer making my own attempts to spend time with him or asking him what his plans were. The truth is that I think he wanted me to be their for him, but he wanted me to know exactly when and how to do that without telling me. It is too exhausting. I don't want to be lonely anymore. And maybe I need to just not be married in order to stop feeling that way. I can deal with alone. But I want it to stop feeling so lonely.
So I think--at least for today--that I am ready to move on. I think that I can truly say that I love him, but we just aren't right for each other. I think that I am in a place--at least in this moment--where I can accept that this is over. We are attracted to each other for the same reasons that makes this an impossible situation.
So it is time to move on. I need to learn to be alone. Before meeting him I tended to jump into relationships--not on purpose. Before him I was only 3 months out of a 4 year relationship with someone I knew I never wanted to be with long term. And before that person it was a couple of months single from another person who I always knew was better as a friend but he wanted more and I gave it a shot. I think I really need to learn to be by myself, and to be friends with men. I realized I don't really know how to be friends with men, every time I try it ends up in a relationship. And when I am in a relationship I don't make any attempts to be friends with other men. This is a major flaw that I think I need to overcome. How can I expect my husband to think of me as his best friend when I have no idea how to be friends with a man.
When I think of how crazy jealous I get about this "very good friend" of his I realize it is not because I think he is attracted to her in any way, but because he knows how to be a friend to him and I guess I never really got into that zone with him. It hurts more than if they actually had sex. I'd much rather it be that superficial.
So I really just suck at this. Another blow up yesterday when he gave me the stuff I need to finish filling out the paper work. I couldn't just let things be, I had to push buttons. Honestly, I feel satisfied by it--and that just shows how little I have grown. But I actually got some information and that feels like a breath of fresh air. I found out that he had found a bunch of old journals I kept from my teens and early 20s, leading up to not long before I met him. I loved exploring my dark side back then, and for the couple of years before I met him I was really caught up in emotional turmoil. I had no direction and acted impulsively and really just went on this path where I decided to break all the rules.
It led me to make lots of mistakes that I finally said "enough". I cut ties with toxic people, and made some conscious choices to get back on track. Once I made the decision it was like everything started to magically fall into place. I finished school. I ended up getting my first real job. And I met him. And for the most part, I grew up. Our relationship was a whirlwind that moved very fast, from meeting to moving in together within three months time. Married a year from that first meeting date with a baby on the way. Last night he decided to use that information as his new weapon to prove how crazy I am and I haven't changed. Interesting how I never kept any of that stuff from him--it wasn't like I was hiding the fact that I went through a wild phase and the only real red flag that should have sent up was that YES it was very recent to the time that we met--but he knew that at the time he met me. However, if that was who I really was and not just going through a phase, then don't you think he would have realized that withing the past 15 years of living with me? Why now--15 years later--is that at all relevant? Apparently those journals (which I thought we tossed when we moved out of our first place together) had made it through 3 moves without me knowing they were still around. But SOMEONE must have. And what a well-kept secret that was. He really must have been searching for ammo. It must have been driving him crazy that I was so positive and confident while he was in so much turmoil that he had to go digging up old dirt. It is interesting because our first big fight was right after we moved in together because he found that stuff. I thought we moved passed it then--before we even got married. Apparently for him it was just a matter of waiting for the right moment to pull that dirt out again.
I am so done. I am done with him acting like a victim because he had to contribute 1/2 his salary to supporting his household--and then somehow claiming the fact that he always funded Christmas. Yeah, but does going over board on Christmas mean anything when you are going to spend the next three months worrying about keeping the heat turned on? No, I never splurged on Christmas because I was taught that bills get paid before fun stuff.
Once again the kids heard us fighting. I hate this. For most of their lives my kids never had to overhear us fighting--minor disagreements yes, but this kind of nasty fighting never ever happened around them and rarely happened at all. Now within the past 5 months they have had to hear it 3 times. I think it really is time to just say, enough. I don't like him at all. I still love him, but in a "you will always have a place in my heart" sort of way. I still love the man I thought I was married too. Now I am not so sure he was ever real.
He finally said that he will leave. Let's see if it actually happens. He wants me to give him the money for the rent since it automatically comes out of his pay. I can totally swing it--however, I know that the law doesn't work that way. So this will just light a fire under my ass to file the papers.
I will not be writing him a check for the full amount because 1) he still has to support the kids so 1/3 of that is still his responsibility. 2) his car ins and cell phone are still being paid by me because they are under my contracts so I will be deducting that from the amount I get. The kids cell phones probably should also be split between us, so maybe instead of just subtracting his portion I should split that bill 50/50--although I won't make a huge deal out of that. 3) I should probably also subtract 1/3 from the utility bill. I'll be calling my lawyer today to hammer out the logistics on how to handle this until we get the agreement written up.
I don't plan on this being a permanent situation and still plan to move in with my parents to get my debts paid off and save money. But I will wait until school is over. I'm just relieved he is finally leaving so I don't have to make all of the major changes thanks to his impulses.
Definitely time to find a family counselor to help the kids, and me navigate through this. I realize how many mixed messages those poor kids are getting. Hearing us fight last night. H announcing he will be leaving. Then this morning--life goes on as usual as if last night never happened. Pleasant to each other and parenting well. I think it is a good thing that we can be this peaceful for their sake, but I can also see how confusing this might be for them. I downloaded a book about parenting through divorce a few weeks ago but I haven't had the chance to read it. I have so much going on at work that has me overwhelmed but I need to make sure I do this parenting piece as well as I can. That has to be my top priority.
Msd
Space will be good for you.
If V were Starsky and you were a new guy on the board then I would be saying that your H sounds like he is in at minimum an EA or PA with the 'friend', or she may be a POW in the wings. This may explain a few things. I say this to be kind Msd as I believe in Intel.
From my sitch you will see that I tackled this aspect of an infidelity head on with POW (a 'friend' of H) and H directly. Msd you need Intel, and under normal circumstances the 'if you snoop, you will get poop' rule applies, but in this circumstance I believe you should know. Can you check phone or email? Pink followed her H to uncover the waywardness. OD found documents. V made direct challenges to H and POWs.
Starsky, Wonka if you are about can you help a little as V may not be putting across properly, but I think this may be the case and worth checking out. H may be gaslighting Msd.
82% of affairs start with friendship Msd. Friendships between opposite sexes are difficult territory and often the other person is a trade down. The key research paper is by Shirley Glass (sadly died of cancer and her site is now a memorial to her wonderful work) and I have her research paper but can not find it on the internet.
Her book arising from it is often quoted.
If this is infidelity then you can lance this sore. The main link I can find is:
Affairs and How they start hope this helps although it is biased to Ws having affairs so you may need to interpret. I agree with Sandi waywardness is in the end a choice.
V
Vanilla, I hear what you are saying. He's been friends with many women before and it never bothered me because I felt secure in my relationship and in my attractiveness, and because the other women always included me. This particular woman has never made an effort to connect to me beyond having daughters who are friendly and in the same grade. I knew they were friendly and worked closely together, but I wouldn't have considered them friends because they never got together outside of work unless it was a work sanctioned event.
Usually with my kids' friends' mother's who were also H's coworkers we would get together and have a connection separate from H or kids. This one never made much of an attempt which is why it surprised me that she considered herself his "very good friend for a very long time" (her words). It probably is an EA and if it is a PA than I find it hilarious and surprised he could even get the deed done with someone who looks like that (catty--I know--but true).
It is made so much worse by the fact that she is s13's teacher and D11's friends mother. That I just got a text from D11 telling me that this woman's daughter asked if she was free friday. That yesterday H had OW tell my daughter where to meet him because D11 and friend were haning out in OW's classroom. I can't detach as hard as I try. And if nothing is going on--which maybe there isn't--then I know that he is still trying to use that because he knows that is the one area where I crumble into an emotional wreck and stop taking the higher road.
I don't think finding out will help me much at this point. Because if nothing is going on I don't think I will believe it until his entire attitude me changes anyway. And if something is going on it is still going to make me want to be an Evil By-otch to both of them. And I have to think about my kids. I have to stop obsessing over it. I just don't know how to right now.
I want her gone from my life. But H made it clear that I can't dictate who he is friends with (which is true) and the reality is I know it is wrong for me to try to draw a wedge between my D's friendship. And she is still teaching my son and will have my d next year if they continue to go to this school. I can't let my own jealousy determine their schooling. He put me in a really bad position and he knows it. i think that is why (if nothing is going on) he wants to keep playing that card because it gives him leverage. I gave that to him. The only way to get it back is to stop caring and move past it.
I just don't know how to do that right now.
I have to just stop trying to have conversations with him. Every time I think I am being rational and stating a boundary it ends up disintegrating to low blows and tirades (from me mostly because he is so good at just being annoyingly silent). This time I just had to tell him that I don't like D hanging out in OW's classroom after school. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up. I should probably just let it go and allow things to happen whether I like it or not. I didn't like his reaction and I took the bait.
I want to leave. But I want to take the kids with me. I don't want to live here anymore, but I don't want to leave the kids behind. I couldn't get in touch with the lawyer yesterday, hopefully today I will be able to. I have to get this done as fast as possible because the longer we are living in the same house the harder it is to not react based on my emotions.
ETA and after this conversation I am starting to think that OW isn't really an OW, but a tool he is using to make me feel insecure. I think his fear is that I will confront her again because it will make work more uncomfortable for him. He should have thought about that before he started using her to hurt me.
Work has been crazy stressful. I am so distracted and I don't know which way is up. I have wanted this job for so long and now that I have it I am regretting it. The parts of my job that I am very good at is not enough, and the other pieces are just too much for me to handle. There aren't enough hours in the day, and when I was devoting all of my time to getting it in order, my kids were suffering. When I started focusing more on my family the job suffered.
I was given the heads up that when my contract is up I will probably be let go. It gives me a few months to try and turn things around, but frankly I don't know if I have it in me. Part of me was relieved to hear that, the other part is devastated and completely panicked. Now what? I devoted so much time and money into this career path and now that I finally made it I am feeling like it is the completely wrong fit. Or maybe just the wrong time. I don't know. I am feeling old to be starting over. And right now I am starting over in every way possible.
I am so distracted by everything going on in my life that I am not handling anything well anymore. I thought I was going to have a stroke this week with all of the stress. I ended up talking to H, just to unload a bit. The first time was when I was panicking about deadlines, we both shared some of our work stress with each other and it was kind of a nice bonding moment. Maybe not quite bonding, but a little bit of an open door. But then I made the mistake yesterday of telling him that I will probably lose my job in a few months. He has been having a stressful week, too. He feels more stuck in his job then I do in mine. I think that me losing my job makes him feel like everything is falling back onto his shoulders--whether we are married or not. I plan on finding another job ASAP--probably in a different field or maybe just go back to doing what I do well even though it doesn't pay well, but at the same time, I am not going to quit. I will go down with the ship. Part of the frustrating part is that I don't know if it is just the timing of this position was wrong. In some ways it was so right--I needed the distraction and the financial support. In other ways it was so wrong--there is no way to be successful in this field your first year without devoting 100% of your time to it, but my family also needed that time. I also think that for a first year position it was wrought with unusual circumstances--there was little planning in how it was all going to work out. I was hired because they thought I could get things off the ground with little direction, and apparently I did not take as much initiative as was expected. There were so many pieces that I was not prepared to handle, and it made other things that should have been no-brainers fall to the wayside.
I am dreading the next few months. I hate that everything in my life is falling apart. I hate that right now I feel like there is nothing I can count on. I know there are lessons to be learned in all of this. I just don't know what they are right now. And I don't know where to put what little energy I have left at the moment. Do I throw everything into trying to save this sinking ship of a job, of a marriage, of a family? How do I know where my focus needs to be? I still don't know what to do about my living situation. I don't know if I should go forward with the D or if I should continue to wait for H to do it. I don't know if I should move out or wait until I have to. I haven't been able to eat and I am tired all of the time.
I was always a pretty optimistic person and lately I feel like I am just so defeated all of the time.
My anxiety right now is beyond anything I have ever experienced in my life. Part of me is saying I should just quit my job. I am on vacation right now but I have a lot of work to do and feel absolutely paralyzed about getting it done. Every time I sit down to start my heart starts racing. Knowing that I am failing, and knowing that I don't have what it takes to make it work the way it needs to work makes me just want to throw up my hands and give up.
How do I get myself to muddle through? At first I keep telling myself, just do what you know how to do. Accept that it isn't what they want, but at least it will get your through the first few weeks back. Talking myself down of the cliff this way helps me to to get started, but as soon as I get started the anxieties start creeping back and I end up procrastinating. Finding other things to do, like cleaning the fridge or taking my dog for a walk. H has been in and out and I feel so judged by him.
I'm just full of shame and panic. And even the easy things are getting to be really hard for me. I can't tell if part of this is because I am not at work, so the problems feel bigger than they would if I was at least busy and in the throws of it rather than planning for it. Planning has never been a strong suit of mine. Part of why I am struggling so hard in this position. Planning is a huge piece. And in this particular position it is even bigger than in a typical situation. I know now I was really the wrong person for this job, and not only that it was probably the worse time.
I keep saying, I should just quit. That will ease my stress immediately. However, there are a ton of reasons why I need to stick it out. Financial reasons being only one of them. The other being that even if I am not doing a good job, they will be in an even bigger lurch if I leave now. I can't do that to them. They were good to me. I really wish they would just let me go, but I don't think they can because I am contracted until June. If I can stick it out until June I will be able to save enough to feel ok for a few months. I will be able to collect unemployment when it is done. And I will know that I have insurance at least until then.
Every logical solution requires me to stay, but this illogical and paralyzing feeling of anxiety is telling me to just end it now, and deal with the problems it causes when they come.
What can I do to help me survive these feelings? They are so new to me. I feel on the verge of a stroke or a heart attack. It is odd because I remember H feeling this way in the past. I never quite got it. I have a new sense of respect and understanding for him right now.
Hi Mustardseed
Sorry to hear you are experiencing waves of panic and anxiet - not fun but NORMAL.
You need to find a way to express your panic - jumping jacks, running, walking around the block, etc... This offsets the anxiety. Also working out really helps. I have recently joined a gym and work out way more than ever, it does tire me out and leave me less suspectible to anxiety.
I also see a physician to help me manage, my anxiety was such that I was almost paralyzed. I have a prescription which is amazing and got me through the worst of it. It flares up from time to time but I can manage it better now and function.
Do not quit your job. Anxiety feeds on inactivity. Focus really hard on your job, can you do that? Be really productive and that will help. Plus you need the financial stability in your life right now. This is an area of your life that is not in turmoil. Try to focus on that.
Hi Mustardseed, I'm so sorry you are feeling the way you do at the moment. I work in human resources, and the advice we would give would always be - talk to your manager. Do you have a reasonable relationship with them and would you feel able to share with them how you are feeling right now?
One thing I have learned over the years is that work is - just work. We sometimes feel indispensible and as though if X doesn't get done the world will almost stop turning. But the fact is, there are always ways of resolving things. If I am out of the picture for a little while, someone else will step in and do what needs to be done - particularly if you work for a larger company.
The important thing to recognise is that your stress has become 'distress' and you are feeling immobilised when you sit down and try to do some work. That's a clear message that you need to take some steps to resolve things. No employer wants someone who works for them to be feeling that way about work.
Hopefully your manager will be supportive, but if you have any concerns and there is an HR function within your company, I would certainly have a chat with them too. Also, does your company have a stress policy? It may be worth checking. Many larger companies will. Ours has a stress risk assessment form. You work through this with your manager to identify stressors, and then look at what steps can be taken if these arise.
I hope these suggestions are useful, Mustardseed, and that you'll start feeling much better soon. Take care (((Mustardseed)))
I might need to make an appointment with a dr if it doesn't get better. I can usually talk myself out of stressful situations. The problem is that my job is the problem. Right now my job is the turmoil.
I'm a first year special education teacher who was given a class that started a few months into the school year. It is made up of students from different classes and different grade levels--mostly behaviors but the one silver lining of all of this is that most of the behaviors have greatly improved since the class began. These kids came a long way in that area, but the academics are where I am struggling and that is a big deal. It is making everything else fall apart. My planning is the worst part of it because I just don't have the time, and it is also not my strong suit. I realize now that I am better at troubleshooting then planning. I think that is why I enjoyed being an assistant working with students with various behavior struggles. As the teacher I have to leave that up to the assistants and it is hard for me to not get involved. But when I get involved the rest of the class falls apart.
The class was put together very quickly and I wasn't prepared for how it was all going to work. 5 months later I feel like every few weeks I am given suggestions that kind of throws everything off-kilter. There was a vision for how this class should run, and I an unable to make it happen. The challenge of trying to get it right has made me drop the ball on even the simplest tasks. And the fact that I come home to my own children with their own needs and their own turmoil in our current situation makes me feel like there is not one area of my life that I can do well right now.
I have a bunch of assistants who are all certified teachers and I feel judged by them. I am pretty sure two of them went to the principal to complain about me, and I am sure they have valid reasons but I wish they would have come to me first. The whole situation is such a mess. I'm falling apart and it is written all over my face. My principal gave me the heads up that my contract will probably not be renewed. She feels awful. She knows my current situation we discussed how this position came at both the right time and the wrong time. She said that if I didn't have children having such a challenging job probably would have been the perfect distraction for me. But because there is so much going on at home, I just don't have the time to devote to getting this job done right. She is wonderful and I hate that I let her down, but part of me is relieved about it. The other part is dreading the next 3 months. Because I know I can't do it the way it needs to be done. I have meetings with parents coming up that has me in a panic. I am dreading planning the lessons because I know that I can't get it right. The best I can do is what I tried in the past, which wasn't what they want.
I have learned a lot about myself in all of this, though. I learned that teaching is not for me. I like working with the kids 1 on 1 or 2 on one. I like dealing with behavior strategies and positive discipline. I like working with the autistic population doing ABA and discrete trials. I don't enjoy planning and I'm not very good at it. I am much better as a troubleshooter. I like being in the moment. I'd rather react to situations that need to be dealt with then to plan out some scary unknown future. I like coming up with plans, but they are plans to help navigate the unexpected rather than plans to road map a certain situation before it happens. I think that is why my work anxiety level is always higher during school breaks and weekends. When I am in the moment I am just reacting. When I am thinking about what will happen I am panicked.
Maybe that is also why in my current marital situation I am still hanging around. Right now I am not trying to save my marriage, but I am also not moving to end it. The problem is the H is very much the same as me. Limbo might be our status quo for a long time coming until something major changes. Maybe losing my job is the major change?
Msd
Sounds to me like mild anxiety attacks, baby ones. Please take care, as giving up work and retreating may be the last thing you need. Yes, it may relieve the anxiety for the short term and can make your world gradually smaller.
My lovely one, this is very great pressure for you, anxiety (if that is what it is) is one of the easier behaviours to resolve, can I suggest you approach your doctor to chat about this and see if this may be anxiety. Just the description sounds familiar and it is worth knowing, but I am no doctor so my assessment may be incorrect and it is something else.
Anxiety is a rush or flooding emotion which will overwhelm you. It comes on very quickly in the space of a couple of minutes and takes about 45 minutes to calm down. It may leave you exhausted and weary. It is hormonal (can also be exhilarating) and may interfer with the rhythm of your breathing (too much or too little) so often regulating breathing can calm you. Response is good to CBT.
How do I know?
I suffer from ADD and anxiety goes with that sometimes. It leaves me feeling unattached to my body and cold with pins and needles in my hands and feet. Sinking feelings in my tummy, it passes and back to normal within an hour or so. I do not have full blown panic attacks though, just fearful episodes very occasionally. Knowing what they are then this too shall pass.
If this is the case, it is uncomfortable but non fatal. The human body can cope with its own hormones so it is scary but not damaging.
V
Thank you for all of your encouraging words. Today I felt much calmer. I took baby steps and I got some work done. And it wasn't too bad. I was able to incorporate a bit of what was suggested along with what I felt comfortable with. I doubt it will save my job, but it might help me get through the rest of the year. I have a little more to do tomorrow, and then I will take a deep breath and hope for the best.
I just had a function at my kids' school and I managed to avoid the "very good friend". I was pretty anti-social in general, but my kids did a great job. H couldn't make it so it was pretty painless.
Msd
Sounds to me like mild anxiety attacks, baby ones. Please take care, as giving up work and retreating may be the last thing you need. Yes, it may relieve the anxiety for the short term and can make your world gradually smaller.
My lovely one, this is very great pressure for you, anxiety (if that is what it is) is one of the easier behaviours to resolve, can I suggest you approach your doctor to chat about this and see if this may be anxiety. Just the description sounds familiar and it is worth knowing, but I am no doctor so my assessment may be incorrect and it is something else.
Anxiety is a rush or flooding emotion which will overwhelm you. It comes on very quickly in the space of a couple of minutes and takes about 45 minutes to calm down. It may leave you exhausted and weary. It is hormonal (can also be exhilarating) and may interfer with the rhythm of your breathing (too much or too little) so often regulating breathing can calm you. Response is good to CBT.
How do I know?
I suffer from ADD and anxiety goes with that sometimes. It leaves me feeling unattached to my body and cold with pins and needles in my hands and feet. Sinking feelings in my tummy, it passes and back to normal within an hour or so. I do not have full blown panic attacks though, just fearful episodes very occasionally. Knowing what they are then this too shall pass.
If this is the case, it is uncomfortable but non fatal. The human body can cope with its own hormones so it is scary but not damaging.
V
That sounds like what I have been experiencing. Today I felt better. I just forced myself to do little things, and once I got started I was able to keep going. I took frequent breaks and drank lots of chamomile tea. I still have more to do, but it feels much more manageable right now. I keep telling myself that right now I am not in it to impress anyone, or to save my job. Just to do what I can to survive the next few months with as much dignity and strength as I can muster. If I am let go, then that is ok. I will move on. If not--well, sometimes that feels like the scarier option at this point, but the money is good and motivating.
Mad
Please go and take care, chat to your doctor. This is nothing you have to do alone.
I sense that you are like a rabbit looking at the headlights of an oncoming car. This is a very sad time, difficulties at home, a sensation of lack of achievement at work. Your head teacher sounds very valuable too as a resource.
Msd you are struggling alone and really that may not be the best way, seeking help is a strength. Discussing your choices with an independent party deciding if teaching is the right choice and which type of involvement are big decisions.
If you were choosing a pension, selecting an investment, looking at a complex legal case, having serious surgery then you would take advice and go looking for resources. This is the same, two major life events and serious change to face with lowered confidence, really tough. Msd use every resource you have and amoung those is extra medical help. You may also want career advice. Can your head help with a resource or contact. You seem to want to adopt the English reserve position, that is fine, and extra resources and help can be part of that.
Msd remember that the sense of feeling insufficient is compounded by life events, two life events more than doubles the feeling. So this may be quadruple the effect of a single issue. Work and home, RPP also faced this double whammy according to my notes.
I prefer to see this as an opportunity for you to grow and change and it could be delicious strength to have support through this, so that Msd can move faster to where she needs to go.
I recollect a brave Msd going GAL to new destinations in the city one night. This bravery is in Msd to use and gives her strength.
V
I know about work drama. Not in the teaching field but often it's made worse by gossiping helpful people.
Just don't worry too much untill it reaches the point the principle comes and starts making noise. Anything else is just rumor.
Or if you really felt you needed to go see the head person in charge and ask for an a
Asment or help with managing things.
Anxiety only gets worse if you feed it, so being out there doin is the best way to kill it off.
Thank you everyone. I wonder if I can get in to see my doctor today. Unfortunately it isn't rumor, it is the principal who gave me the heads up that she might not renew my contract because it isn't working out. Although, I have a feeling a few other people were aware of this before I was--not that I didn't see it coming, I know I am floundering.
You are right about the gossip making it worse. I've worked in this school for a very long time as a sub and as an assistant, and have a good rapport with my coworkers. They all thought I would do better in this position then I am doing. My TAs are mostly new and don't know me very well and don't have any sort of loyalty to me, especially since they started the year with other teachers--experienced teachers--and I was a peer. Two of them are seeking teaching positions, 2 of them used to be teachers themselves, and I can tell they are frustrated by how I am doing things. The other has been working in the school for longer than me and we always had a good rapport. I like to think she is on my side, but I think she has lost faith in me.
The principal said that nothing is final yet, but there was something in the conversation that told me this was no longer a "let's see if Msd can turn it around" and more of a "start looking into other options, unless some sort of miracle takes place". Either way, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I'm curious about the resources available to help me explore my options and feelings. It took me 8 years to land this job--public school teaching jobs are really hard to come by in this area. It took multiple diplomas and lots of student loans. Right now I can't imagine wanting to do it for another year, but I don't know if that is just current circumstances clouding my judgement, or if this really isn't the right path for me. Once I give it up there is no turning back, and it would be good to know if it is the job that is wrong, or the timing.
Every first year teacher seems to ride a similar roller coaster. My first year assignment is wrought with challenges beyond the typical first year experience. The principal is as pressured as I am to make it work because the class was her idea as a way of giving these students a smaller placement to help curb some of the behaviors and learning struggles they were having in the larger setting. To get support for a program like this, from parents and higher ups, there were a lot of promises and expectations. I am struggling to meet those expectations and if it fails it falls on her. I understand her position. I know that she is losing as much sleep over this as I am. And at first I was just resigned to the fact that I am doing the best I can with what I have available, but the stress has compounded and made me drop the ball on even the obvious things. I can't excuse those mistakes. Home problems are not an acceptable excuse, but they are my reality right now.
I think part of when I started really feeling the pressure was after my last observation. Suggestions were made to change what I was teaching and how I was teaching. What I heard was major curriculum overhauls was what was expected, and I had no idea where to begin. The next day d11 was sick, and for the past 2 years when she had gotten a cold she ended up hospitalized in ICU with asthma for nearly a week at a time. I was afraid that it would happen again. So I had to take a day off to take her to the dr. She was put on steroids. Luckily we avoided the hospital this time around, but that weekend when I was compounded with work stress, she was having emotional breakdowns. We all were.
D11 is like a rock, she is always happy and always seems to handle things well. Seeing her break down was alarming to me. She was saying how she feels she has no control over her feelings, that she is afraid she is going to get kicked out of school because she can't concentrate and hasn't been able to finish her homework. Going on and on about how she doesn't want to move, and she doesn't want anyone to move (me or H). How she never wants to change schools. Then she was saying how she is hungry but can't eat and she is scared. This all happened at the same time. I did what I could that weekend to try and make changes to my planning, but I was really thrown off, because it became obvious that my kids need more of my time. Time that this job has taken away. So my implementation of the work suggestions fell short--and everything else that was coming up for work was neglected.
After talking to H and taking d11 back to the dr for a follow up we learned that he steroid is probably what contributed to D11's breakdown. And her appetite returned a few days after being off of it. That was a relief, but also a wake up call that they need more of my time. And I don't know if I can successfully pull of my work obligations and still give my children the attention they need during this turmoil. I miss having a job that didn't have to consume every waking minute of my day--and even most of those minutes that I am sleeping. Maybe if I was in my 20s with no kids this would work out better. Maybe if my kids weren't in turmoil right now and their only stresses were school, friends, and extra curriculars, this would be the perfect time for me to devote to getting this career off the ground. Or maybe I'm just not cut out for it.
Msd
If this were me, I would review the position with each person involved. Clarify the expectations of teachers, principle, students. Perhaps the expectations were too high, too soon? Perhaps you need extra/different resources.
What went right, what went wrong. What can easily be changed.
Examine a plan, ask for help from a more experienced 'safe' teacher to assist you to put that together and help for you to decide what you might prefer. Even if you leave or get asked to move to a different role or are let go then it will be clearer to you where the problem areas are. No one wins a battle single handed.
If you would like to discuss specific issues then I can suggest and feedback and there is so much expertise here on the board to provide a balanced view.
Mad, you got this!
V
Thank you V. I return to work on Tuesday and I am very anxious about it, but I got pretty much all of my planning done, with a few tweaks for two students still needed. I still have to write up a bunch of reports. This was one awful, anxious break that just keeps getting worse, and I keep digging myself deeper and deeper into the ground.
Last night I found out that H had signed up to do a charity run with OW. I found the roster for those who signed up. There is no one else from work, just the two of them and one of his buddies who is not connected. That felt like a slap in the face that he is now including her in plans with friends from outside their shared environment. I confronted him, probably should have left well enough alone but with everything I am carrying right now my panic attacks where so unbearable, I had to unload. Of course it made everything worse.
Apparently he had also made plans with her yesterday to get the girls together. i think he was also originally part of the plan but back peddled a bit. I told him I was ok with her going if I was the one to drop her off. He said ok, and then later stated that she did not feel comfortable with me coming to her home. On a side note, H had previously arranged situations where OW dropped D off at my house--she wasn't afraid of running into me then? I told him that if she had a problem with me dropping my own daughter off at a play date then she needs to tell me directly. Of course she didn't, I dropped off and she hid in her house, she sent her kids out to meet D in the drive way. H insisted that he pick up. He was a real douche about it. He was gone for the day, ended up signing up for a new phone contract without checking to see if dropping the line for our current contract would cause a problem. He called me from her house when he was picking up D to tell me about the new phone. Then he told me he is trying to figure out how to get me out of our home, and suggested I leave last night. I refused.
I was kind of relentless with pressing for information and I did pile on a bit--maybe a lot I don't know. I got some info, but I'm still not satisfied and I know that I need to detach and that everything I did for the past 24 hours was the opposite of that. I think that there is no turning back at this point. He told me that I am unraveling. I told him I am going through a really tough time, and that when he went through his tough time I was there for him. I never turned my back on him. He said that I wasn't as supportive as OW was. I said, I tried to be but you turned away from me. He admitted that that was probably true, and maybe one day on his rode to recovering his happiness I will have to be one of the people he apologizes to.
So I now have a confirmed EA. I have an H who is so caught up in controlling the entire situation that he has given OW power to dictate if I am allowed to drive my own children to play dates due to her discomfort. I told him that I need to be included in plans and that she needs to get over her shame of facing me if she plans to invite my kids over to her house. I did nothing to this woman except ask her if there was something going on between them back in October. I accepted her answer, apologized for making things uncomfortable for her, and have been nothing but civil and friendly to her ever since. She has given me dirty looks and runs away from me every time she sees me. Either he is feeding her BS about me, or she has a guilty conscience.
But the fact of the matter is that it is killing me. DBing was so much easier before I suspected OW. Last year I felt like I was making such great progress, but this woman has made it impossible to detach. Now my marriage is really over. I don't think I can save it. I don't want to move without my children. I don't want her involved with my children--but it is too late for that. The only way to avoid that is to interfere with the girls' friendship (which I am pretty sure has been fostered and pushed together by the two of them because the girls have know each other since birth and never were that close until this year), or to pull the kids out of the school--which will be terrible for them. I'm stuck with this woman and it makes me sick.
So in such a muddied situation, is there a place for boundaries? Am I in the right for insisting that if D goes to their house I have the right to do the drop off and pick up regardless of how much discomfort it causes OW?
Msd
If this were me, I would review the position with each person involved. Clarify the expectations of teachers, principle, students. Perhaps the expectations were too high, too soon? Perhaps you need extra/different resources.
What went right, what went wrong. What can easily be changed.
Examine a plan, ask for help from a more experienced 'safe' teacher to assist you to put that together and help for you to decide what you might prefer. Even if you leave or get asked to move to a different role or are let go then it will be clearer to you where the problem areas are. No one wins a battle single handed.
If you would like to discuss specific issues then I can suggest and feedback and there is so much expertise here on the board to provide a balanced view.
Mad, you got this!
V
I wanted to address this separately from my marriage issues. I am going to approach the principal on Tuesday when I hand her my new plans. I want to see if what I did over break is closer to what she had in mind. My biggest concern is that I won't be able to implement it. But I will do my best. Also, I clocked about 15 hours to getting those plans done. I hope that is something i can manage going forward. It also requires a lot of delegating to my TAs which is tough for me. I have everything written out as best I could and all I can do is hope for the best. i really hope the anticipation of returning to work is worse than what the reality will be when I get there on Tuesday.
I just reread Sandi's rules for the gazillionth time and yes I have been breaking every single one of them. Before I knew about OW it seemed to come so easy. The backsliding, is there any way to ever recover from that? How did we flip flop places so badly. He was the broken one last year, and I was the rock--the stable one. Now things have reversed. I hate being on this side of it.
I think for my own sanity I have to go dark. I lost sight of what is controlling behavior and what is boundaries and parental rights. My kids have been put in the middle because ow is a part of their lives separate from him. And I feel like they are manipulating the situation, but maybe I'm just muddying everything altogether. I have to let go. Every time she gets involved I lose my mind a little. And she isn't going away. She drives my daughter home from school without consulting me. She tells him she doesn't want me dropping my own daughter off at her house. She arranged play dates with him without them consulting me and without my daughter even knowing. And when I find out I handle it really badly. If she would just disappear I think I might feel sane again.
Msd
If this were me, I would review the position with each person involved. Clarify the expectations of teachers, principle, students. Perhaps the expectations were too high, too soon? Perhaps you need extra/different resources.
What went right, what went wrong. What can easily be changed.
Examine a plan, ask for help from a more experienced 'safe' teacher to assist you to put that together and help for you to decide what you might prefer. Even if you leave or get asked to move to a different role or are let go then it will be clearer to you where the problem areas are. No one wins a battle single handed.
If you would like to discuss specific issues then I can suggest and feedback and there is so much expertise here on the board to provide a balanced view.
Msd, you got this!
V
I wanted to address this separately from my marriage issues. I am going to approach the principal on Tuesday when I hand her my new plans. I want to see if what I did over break is closer to what she had in mind. My biggest concern is that I won't be able to implement it. But I will do my best. Also, I clocked about 15 hours to getting those plans done. I hope that is something i can manage going forward. It also requires a lot of delegating to my TAs which is tough for me. I have everything written out as best I could and all I can do is hope for the best. i really hope the anticipation of returning to work is worse than what the reality will be when I get there on Tuesday.
Can I suggest you present the plans as draft and ask for feedback?
Especially on the implementation, you were specially selected for the project, it needs adjusting and you have reflected, taken the hit and adjusted. Sounds good to me. What is not to like. If you want to move on then your references will be excellent too.
Keep posting msd and you will get there. This is an issue you can really manage, I can sense you can. Even if this is not for you then ultimately this is a real achievement.
V
The problem is that the plans are for the week I get back. There isn't time for feedback until after the fact which might help going forward but coming up with a weeks worth of plans for 4 different levels individualized for 8 students each week is so overwhelming especially when I keep being told to change how I am planning. I have a back up plan in mind for if I end up getting let go, I will probably resign at the end of the contract year to avoid being let go. This stress is too much for me. That made me feel a little bit better to know I have a plan b.
As far as h and OW I ended up sending an email to her. Not sure if it was appropriate to do it, but I feel like it will allow me to move on.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ow:
I realize that both of us might be being fed false information and this email is in no way meant to be accusatory, but just to clear the air for the sake of my children. H mentioned that you were not comfortable with me driving my daughter to your house for a play date that neither I nor d knew was planned. I'm not sure if this is true or not and it might just be a matter of my husband using you as a means to hurt me. If it is true I want to assure you that your relationship with my husband is not my concern as long as it is kept separate from my children. I ask, as their mother, that I be included in any plans and correspondence regarding them. As their mother I will be involved with their education and play dates and as a result you and I will have contact. If this is a problem for you then we need to address it directly.
I am certain that this situation has probably been blown out of proportion by second-hand information, but if I am to believe what I have been told I want to assure you that I do not wish to cause you harm or discomfort, or to interfere with our daughters' friendship or my son's relationship with you as his teacher. However, excluding me from these important aspects of their lives is unacceptable to me, as is exposing them to relationships that they should not have to accept at this point in time.
Going forward please understand that you and I will have contact and if you have any issues or concerns about that I ask that you address it with me directly. Thank you.
---------------------------------------------------
It might have been a huge mistake to send that but part of me likes that she got to hear my concerns and not his spin. I gave him the heads up that I sent her an email as I know she will share it with him. I told him before that I needed to talk to her about her avoidance of me and he told me to go ahead. So it isn't done behind his back although he might have been bluffing.
Spoke to OW. The strangest conversation ever. I probably opened up too much but it is clear that he is as honest with her about thjbgs as he is with me. That makes me both satisfied and upset because clearly their relationship was so much more than I ever knew. I feel like such a fool and I think she was a little surprised to find out we were sexually involved with each other up until a few months ago. The nature of their relationship is still unclear but the fact that she was trying to convince me to move on and I said that I have but I will not leave the home until it makes sense for me and the kids and if he wants out so bad he would have left. She keeps defending him staying and acting like I am not accepting the fact that my marriage is over. So him staying is protecting himself legally but me staying is being unable to let go? I said that I was willing to wait out his midlife crisis and that I allowed myself to be pulled back in by him too many times but the infedelity is something I can't over look. She niether denied or admitted but I am pretty sure this is a romantic relationship now. She seemed a little shaken about our physical relationship. I didn't go into details but it is clear that she thinks of him as hers at this point and was surprised he was not being honest with her. I made it clear that I need to be included in plans and details regarding my kids and that they need to keep their relationship separate from them at least until our divorce is final. it is so odd that she thinks it is my responsibility to end the marriage. Is he dragging his heels too much for her taste.
Anyway my anxiety has been beyond anything I ever experienced. Even before the phone call. I went to a med station and my blood pressure was so high they sent me to the ER. I was given Xanax and I have some therapists that I am calling. When I was talkkng to the social worker he was surprised about how twisted my life is right now. i hope that the therapist can help me untangle this mess and help me identify where the boundaries are and what I need to just let go of.
Msd
I contacted my husbands POW and there was a big backlash by H. Nasty stuff but it killed the starting R stone dead. Potential OW is now a Casual Friend of mine. H had been lying to her.
Intel never hurts in my book.
If your physical R with your H is a surprise then it's an A. This is a very brazen OW with a man who leaves her to tackle the issues. OW will get fed up of it and frankly she is nasty so the minimum of info from you to her. OW is someone to stay away from. The POW in my case decided that as H had lied to her she would cease contact with him and she has. No contact for 6 weeks and CF has invited me for coffee since twice! My H said in a conversation repeated to me that he did not want a D as he did not want his then (different) OW having 'ideas'.
So this particular OW of your H lacks morals and is the 'boss' type. Just let your H get on with his horrid affair. If you have been exposed to any risk of infection, please get tested. OW wants you to let go because your H clearly hasn't done so. Let them get on with the A and it will run its unpleasant course.
I am glad you have a work plan, even if you can not get immediate feedback, I believe it would still be helpful to ensure that you present your plans and ask for feedback. That way all concerned know that you are working on improvement. Well done for stepping up to the challenge, this can not have been easy. Let us know. Behind you all the way Msd.
Your sitch is one of the toughest here and I admire the way you are up to the challenges and taking action. Despite your anxiety and that is wonderful to hear. Brave too, anxiety is a real tough challenge on its own.
Sending you all the love and support I can
V
Work went very well. Since taking the Xanax I started feeling like myself again. At first I thought that maybe just being back in the throws of thing was enough to make my anxiety subside, but I realized that the feeling start coming back right around the time I am supposed to take my next dose. Hopefully this a temporary necessity. I hate taking medicine, even the baby asprin I'm supposed to take once a day annoys me and I never do it.
I handed in my plans but the principal didn't really have a time to look it over. At the end of the day I checked in with her and let her know the day went pretty well, although Tuesdays usually do go smoothly. She took a quick look and I told her a few areas that still have me stumped and she gave me some suggestions.
I have some work to do to prepare for the meetings on Friday, but the Xanax has pretty much elminated the paralyzing feeling I was having and instead now I just experience a more appropriate wave of urgency and uncertainty that comes with deadlines and new experiences rather than the extreme panic.
I still seem to be sucking at the going dark piece of this. But I spoke to a therapist today and I feel like I am getting the perspective back that I had before I found out about OW. Why the hell am I with this man? Poor thing is going to fall apart once this is all done because he can barely manage life. I forgot all about that part. I have behaved very badly, but what it all comes down to is that he is not worth it. However, I am not going to complicate my life for his convenience. Once the timing is good for me I will make my move. Unless he actually takes some initiative for once in his life and actually gets it done.
Mustard seed, I'm glad Vanilla is showing up for you. She is wise and you should listen to her.
I want to add, however, that you must not have a stiff neck about meds. They aren't necessarily forever. You're in a tight, tight place. Meds are grease to get you through. Once the tight place has passed (and you will know when that has happened) then you can re-evaluate what you need.
That includes the baby aspirin. Empower yourself. Care for yourself. This is a B.F.D., normal rules do not apply.
Hugs.
Thank you. Right now I am definitely going to continue the Xanax. I am practicing as much self control as possible to avoid trying to have a conversation with him this morning. Why do I always feel the need to talk.
Mustardseed: as a teacher myself, I can relate to how stressful our job can be-- mentally, physically and emotionally exhausting.
You may want to read some of the recent advice I got from labug, urWorthy, Maybell and mozza... or perhaps my earliest thread with awesome insight from 25 years.
The stuff with the OW and playdates sounds pretty controlling. I would not expect my H to consult me on every activity or playdate he arranges. I would certainly hope that he would give me a heads up before introducing my D to a girlfriend, but I can't control what he does.
please do not contact the OW anymore. Focus on you, on GAL, on managing your anxiety and stress (which makes everything in a special needs classroom so much worse!)... and work on detaching.
Nothing you say at this point will change how either of them feel.
You can do this-- all of it. If you want to get some feedback on teaching stuff, I'm sure I'm not the only one here, and I'd be more than happy to offer support.
Hang in there.
Thank you Claire. I will look into your threads. I am going to do everything in my power to let go of their relationship. Unfortunately contact is unavoidable as she is my sons teacher and will be my daughters next year, not to mention our daughters' friendship. I just have to realize that now he is her problem and that will take care of itself. The more I try to control the situation the more I push them together.
Oh gosh, I would be raising my concerns with the school about that I think. Is it really possible for her to continue teaching your kids when she has contributed to the break up of your family?
Msd
This week is very important to you work wise. You have a plan and are applying it.
I am glad the first day went well as it is a boost for later days when you may need to make adjustments, some will be fine tuning and others may be because of feedback.
You are really up to this, and are applying effort and sense to it. Soon you will start to enjoy the successes you get. It is a virtuous spiral of improvement and performance. As a result of circumstances your initial performance needed revising and Msd you are doing that. I am pleased you are also letting everyone know there are changes to come and adjustments. That way you will get buy in.
I am really looking forward to reading about more days and in particular I shall be with you as your cheer leader on Friday.
Really pleased for you Msd.
V
I am trusting today went well
V
I survived the week. Right now I am feeling very good about things involving work. I'm kind of hoping I am able to save my job. I received some supportive compliments from coworkers who sat in on the meetings with me, saying that I did great for my first time. I hope my principal noticed. I know she was worried, and honestly given my fragile state the last couple of weeks I don't blame her.
The meetings went well, and I think the medication helped. I got all of my reports done last night so it was fresh in my head. I said my piece, often having to start the meeting, and contributed when necessary. I focused on the things I felt the most confidence about, and relied on the data and reports for the information that I was unsure of.
The one thing about the meds is that I realize that it works really well right away. I feel sane and normal, and confident in a really healthy way. Then a few hours later I start to get very drowsy, and right after the drowsiness kicks in, the anxiety starts to come back. The worst feeling is when I have the drowsiness coupled with the anxiety. This happened during my fourth meeting, and I felt myself trembling when I spoke. I took another pill right after that meeting and was fine the rest of the day. It is such a relief to have that part done with, and I think that now I can devote all my focus to getting my planning right.
I met with a therapist earlier this week. I didn't even get into my work issues when I spoke to her but just unloaded about H and OW and my complicated situation. My goal is to stop handling things so badly, but I felt like she was validating my bad behavior because she was surprised by how complicated my situation is. I don't want validation. I don't want anyone telling me that my feelings or reactions are understandable. I want some one to tell me how to move on. I want someone to come right out and say, "Here is the line. This is your boundary, and this is none of your business." I wonder if the the first session is just supposed to be information gathering. I don't want another excuse to vent--I have been doing too much of that and it is getting me no where. Just making me obsess and hold on and feel justified in doing so--which only makes things worse. I want someone to tell me to knock it off, and to give me strategies to get me to the place where I was over the summer.
I thought that I had it all figured out last summer. I felt like holding on and letting go was completely my choice and in my control. And through prayer and faith I could take control of my life. Right now I don't feel I have a choice. Like my body and mind have completely been hijacked. I keep trying to give it up to God, but it is so tangled up all around me that it just refuses to go. Maybe I am depressed? I've never experienced a situation where I wasn't able to apply mind over matter before. Is that what it feels like to be depressed?
I'm home alone tonight. I was supposed to go away to celebrate a cousin's birthday but I was afraid that between the travel time and visiting time I won't have enough time to get my plans done for next week. The kids were going to stay with my SIL because H has some stuff going on. They were excited so I didn't change their plans. I appreciate the alone time, but I am also feeling kind of lonely.
I am so proud and pleased for you Msd. The work issue is turning around.
Breathe, the other stuff with H will resolve itself too.
V
I ended up going out last night with a friend from childhood. I took a chance and FB messaged her because I am in my home town and I noticed that she goes out in town often. I felt a little embarrassed by reaching out like that, but I am so glad I did it. We had so much fun! She is very outgoing and has a lot of male friends. Being friends with men is something I want to work on. All of my closest friends have always been females, and I think not knowing how to be a friend to a guy might have been detrimental to my marriage. We had a passionate, loving, and committed relationship for many years, but I don't think I can really say that we were friends. Obviously he felt more comfortable opening up to someone else instead of me, so I am sure he feels that way.
The one thing that I never thought would happen was that I could find another man attractive. I have closed myself off from men since meeting my husband. He had some jealousy issues with some past relationships and flirtatious friendships from my past, and he always commented negatively when men looked at me. I didn't want any reason for him to feel threatened by anything so I cut it all out of my life. Last night my friend asked me what kind of man I am attracted to, and all I could think of was H. But then I started to look at the men differently. I allowed myself to put that wall down and just enjoy the men in our presence. It wasn't flirtatious, maybe a little, but very innocent. And I realized that I am able to find other men attractive. I felt comfortable having another man's arm around me--whereas before last night I would have felt very tense and guilty by that.
H has always had female friends and I never felt threatened by it until OW--mostly because that friendship was kept so separate from me. Now I see what a double standard I had about that. I don't even really think it was his doing, but my own. I know that before H most of my friendships with men became intimate in some way, shape, or form, so I didn't trust myself to be friendly or comfortable with other men when I was in a relationship. And as much as I might say his jealousy had something to do with it, I realize that it is a pattern that I had in previous relationships as well. Once I made a commitment to a man, I cut the rest of them out (except family and friends' significant others). So now it is time for me to learn how to be friends with men and not feel guilty about it.
I have so much work to do that I don't want to do. And I am running low on the meds--but I know I am going to need them to get through the week so I am trying not to take any today.
If the meds are helpful Msd, make sure you have the routine dose.
Care Msd, I will check in so please post about the work.
I know exactly what you mean about male friendship though, as I have only a few male friends.
V
The meds are as needed and I figured I'm better off using them when I have to work rather than weekends unless I am feeling really off. Today I didn't feel quite as anxious even though there was some anxiety related to my lesson planning. My blood pressure is also back to normal. Actually it was even kind of low today.
I'm back to wanting to quit. But I think I'm always like that on weekends. There are 10 weeks left. I will take it one day at a time. One week at a time. I'm home now but h is still house sitting. I am surpringly ok. Not obsessing over what he may or may not be doing. I guess a night out with a little flirting was what I needed to get out of my head.
The meds are as needed and I figured I'm better off using them when I have to work rather than weekends unless I am feeling really off. Today I didn't feel quite as anxious even though there was some anxiety related to my lesson planning. My blood pressure is also back to normal. Actually it was even kind of low today.
I'm back to wanting to quit. But I think I'm always like that on weekends. There are 10 weeks left. I will take it one day at a time. One week at a time. I'm home now but h is still house sitting. I am surpringly ok. Not obsessing over what he may or may not be doing. I guess a night out with a little flirting was what I needed to get out of my head.
Hello mustardseed,
I have been trying to catch up with your situation. I think you have come a long way!
Not obsessing about what your H may or may not be doing is wonderful. (I wish I could get to that point about my W.)
Hang in there -- we're rooting for you!
Bob
Thanks Bob. I am feeling good about work right now. The beginning of the week usually goes well, but Thursday's are always really rough. There is no diwn time and I always feel under planned. I think it is because the students' schedules are more staggard. There are fewer pullout and a bunch of my students don't go to some specials due to their disabiliti s so I feel like I need to plan triple. Also my prep time has a lot more kids in the room then any other day and so planning for my TAs during that time I s stressful. Usually they end up doing somethibg I planned for another time or an activity I didn't know about which leaves me floundering later on in the day. Maybe that is the next hurtle to overcome.
I'm also going to try to get most of my planning done after school on Thursday and Friday so I'm not so stressed out over the weekend now that the ieps and meetings are done.
The principal hasn't said anything so I don't know if my changes are changing her opinion or not, but my main focus right now is just getting through each week.
As far as h. He still is house sitting and pops in every now and then before heading back to his buddies house. Ow contacted me yesterday because she wanted to give d a ride home. I told d she needed to wait at the library because I had a dr appointment. H told ow the same thing. I'm sure d was annoyed by having to stay but i still got annoyed that I had to explain my reasonings for wanting d to stay at school to ow. To prove that I'm not putting the kids in the middle, or neglecting my children, but just that if she came home too early she would have been home alone for longer than I felt comfortable.
I can tell the situation stressed h out as well. If d just had her phone charged ow would not have needed to contact me. Life has gotten very complicated for him. I have a bit of spiteful joy in seeing it. I just need to be careful to not think too much about it. My night out out me in a good place and I don't want to lose this pma. Right now I am in the place where she can have him. It won't last anyway. I realized last weekend that I am fun, attractive, and confident with who I am when I am around people who aren't part of his life. I will be ok. He doesn't get to define me anymore.
He should be coming home tonight. I am feeling anxious about it. I have to go to a school event for s13 and there is a chance of running into ow--but that doesn't bother me as much as having H come home. When he is gone I almost feel like we could be ok. Maybe that is just me continuing to fantasize that he is still the man he used to be. The good news is he isn't going to the event tonight so at least I won't have to see them together. That always sets me off in a really bad way. Take the high road msd. Be proud of who you are and unashamed of what your life has become.
I think I need to file papers ASAP. But my stubborn side is telling me not to because it is what OW told me to do.
Event went great. S was fantastic. No uncomfortable run-ins. H is home and status quo resumes. Two ships passing cheerfully and resentfully in the night. Even my work day went well. I think I might be getting my planning under control enough to overcome even the chaotic days of the week.
I posted this on someone else's thread but I think I should put it here as a reminder and journaling experience. I've been thinking a lot about my night out and what I learned from it. Our crowd was a mixture of single and married people, and me--the in between. No one had their SOs with them. It made me think of what H's nights out without me might have been like.
I found that I could feel comfortable and attractive around other men, and the one I was the most drawn to was married. I didn't feel guilty about a little bit of flirting at the time but I felt awful a few days later. I was trying to figure out what it was about him that attracted me to him, and I realized because he reminded me of H. Not in looks or even personality, but something about the way he carried himself. Maybe it was the marriedness about him I liked. I liked the banter that was just comfortable and fun without any attachment or obligation or expectation. It made me think of how OW might have let her guard down with my H when her marriage was in trouble. I still hate her, but I kind of get it.
I think, for me, it felt like I got to be that friend that got to socialize with him. That is a role I got pushed out of with H. Even when we did go out together it was always with his friends and I always felt like the outsider. So different from when we met--I never thought our fun times together would end. But first he stopped wanting to go out with our mutual friends that we knew before we knew each other. He never would go out with my friends. When his friends started dating my friends he stopped wanting to hang out with them. And the rest of our marriage it was all about his work friends--which I was sometimes invited to, but always as the outsider--unless it was a family or couples outing, which he always tried to get out of going to. It felt good to be on the other side of things. The one who got to have fun and be in the mix, rather than the one sitting at home waiting or sitting on the sidelines while the banter went on around me. I realized that I am still that fun person he met. For some reason he didn't want me to be that anymore and I complied. I think that there is a reason why we become drawn to someone else who is unavailable during this time. The important thing is to recognize it for what it is and cut it off before it gets into the danger zone. The ego boost is useful, the unavailability makes it feel safe, but the reality is it has to stop immediately.
I am needy and every day I break the rules. I keep pushing for answers. He keeps blowing me off and telling me how much he doesn't care for me, I was never his friend, he never trusted me, he would never confide in me. He told me he is waiting for a file number. I guess he did it. Time for me to wait to get served. And I just keep on digging.
Ugh. Why can't I stop??? Why do I feel the need to tell him everything then push him and push him to the point of making him so annoyed. I'm not even sure what I want. I don't want this marriage but I don't want him to win. He says I ambush him every morning. I am constantly trying to have conversations with him. I can't stop myself. I am needy. I am clingy. I am all over the map. Why???? Why can't I just DB like I did over the summer. It was easier to detatch when I felt confident we would make it through this. As soon as that curve ball was thrown it's like I just deteriorated into this needy mess. I wish I just filed before he found a lawyer. I think he might screw me out of child support.
Is there a way to recover from this loss of dignity? Not even to save my marriage but just to save my self respect. Right now I am in a really bad place realizing how desperate and crazy I have become. I can't tell if it is just because he confuses me and twists things until I just start reacting like a crazy person. Or if it is really who I am. Right now I'm afraid that maybe ow isn't an EA at all. And I feel foolish about it. The biggest issue I have is in coming to terms with what the past 15 years of my life was about. What was real about any of this? If he thought this way of me why did it go on for so long? I've lost my mind these past few months. I know he wasn't sure a few months ago and now he is absolutely sure. And I know my behavior since finding out about ow has everything to do with it. Was my whole marriage a sham? Why did he even pretend to want me in the first place. I dont even remember what I loved about him, except the ideal of happily ever after. Our life together has been a disaster. I think it was because we were careless. He thinks it's because we were a mistake. He said that I dont inspire him. I feel like I have that effect on men. Like I make things too easy that they stop trying harder. Do I just have this way of making men fall into a rut once we are in a relationship? Maybe I need to be more bitch and less enabler?
Choices or fate? I believed in fate when we got together, but now I feel like it is all about choices. We need to separate. I know that. Things aren't going to get better and they really suck right now. I'm scared. Im ashamed. Im heartbroken. And I feel the need to hang on to this dead fish of a relationship just to prove it wasn't all make believe. That is crazy, right? Also the fact that I can't keep my mouth shut is crazy too. I tell him everything. For me it is impossible to keep anything in. Why? Especially since it is. Dry clear that he's never felt comfortable telling me anything. That's why this relationship bothers me so much. What if it really is me and not him? im sure it is both of us. He wants me to find someone else. i guess the jealousy issue is no longer in play for him. Now that I got jealous he no longer is.
Is there a way to recover from this loss of dignity?
You are Msd. Pain is not loss of dignity. I am so proud of the way you have handled your work challenge. That is dignity Msd.
Not even to save my marriage but just to save my self respect. Right now I am in a really bad place realizing how desperate and crazy I have become.
lovely Msd you are in pain and grief. This is to be expected, you are human after all. A mother invested in her family, why be surprised. Without exception on this board we have all had this! It is absolutely completely normal, natural and part of the process.
I can't tell if it is just because he confuses me and twists things until I just start reacting like a crazy person. Or if it is really who I am.
The former.
Right now I'm afraid that maybe ow isn't an EA at all.
What a nasty little worm this OW is. Frankly EA or PA it really does not matter. Your H is enthralled and the sooner it runs its course the better
And I feel foolish about it.
It is your H who is the foolish idiot.
The biggest issue I have is in coming to terms with what the past 15 years of my life was about. What was real about any of this?
The past is the past Msd. Leave it, let it rest. Please leave your history as your best memory. I always say today's hurricane need not replace last summers sunny picnic.
If he thought this way of me why did it go on for so long? I've lost my mind these past few months. I know he wasn't sure a few months ago and now he is absolutely sure.
He is an idiot.
And I know my behavior since finding out about ow has everything to do with it.
He is in an A, it has little to do with you. He chose this and you could have been the most wonderful ever and H make his choice. Msd get to a place where you say it is your H behaviour that is the cause not your own.
Was my whole marriage a sham?
Of course not! Why tell yourself this.
Why did he even pretend to want me in the first place.
I doubt he did.
I dont even remember what I loved about him, except the ideal of happily ever after. Our life together has been a disaster. I think it was because we were careless. He thinks it's because we were a mistake.
Your H needs to rewrite history Msd, but you don't have to buy into his version of events. If your washing machine breaks down after 15 years you don't say I bought the wrong machine. You say I will repair it, it has done well. If a tree bough breaks you say I need to prune the tree so it will be healthy.
Choices or fate? I believed in fate when we got together, but now I feel like it is all about choices.
Yes of course it is.
We need to separate. I know that.
Do you! That is why you DB?
Things aren't going to get better and they really suck right now.
They do, and they will get better with time.
I'm scared. Im ashamed. Im heartbroken.
Scared and heartbroken I really understand those. I would ask you Msd why are YOU the one who is ashamed, and is that appropriate?
And I feel the need to hang on to this dead fish of a relationship just to prove it wasn't all make believe. That is crazy, right?
No, it is not crazy. I would like you to want a better R and a different M even if that is with your H. To move forwards rather than to hang on. To want to renew, to want to DB, but Msd no one can ask you to move faster than you want to go.
Also the fact that I can't keep my mouth shut is crazy too.
I am concerned about the use of this word crazy. Msd why that word in particular? What does it mean to you!
I tell him everything. For me it is impossible to keep anything in. Why? Especially since it is. Dry clear that he's never felt comfortable telling me anything. That's why this relationship bothers me so much. What if it really is me and not him? im sure it is both of us. He wants me to find someone else. i guess the jealousy issue is no longer in play for him. Now that I got jealous he no longer is.
So much mind reading. Stop. please stop.
Msd can we explore the use of the word crazy?
It concerns me.
Calm, peace ((((((((Msd)))))))
V
Thanks V. I think I am just feeling like I am acting crazy. I am doing and saying whatever i can to try and control things that aren't within my control. And I am making myself look like a complete fool.
Today OW's d came over. The girls were having fun. I had to go down to the school to drop something off for S and the girls came with me. I ran into one of H's coworkers who was asking odd questions about where I was living and mentioned that she has heard things. I played cheerful and clueless. "Yes, WE are still living here. Yes I have a new job." I guess there is a lot of gossip going on about my situation among his coworkers. Of course, then the girls came out to give me a pizza to carry back since they were on bikes. And my mind started racing. If there is an affair, and the coworkers know, and here I am down at school with OW's d and playing it off like my marriage is still in tact then maybe it will make them look bad for carrying on behind my back. But it also makes me look foolish. And maybe nothing inappropriate is going on between them at school, but they are all talking about how I should be moved out, yet there I am pretending nothing has changed. The whole thing is such a mess. I had to know what the deal was.
I had to bring it up to H. H seemed genuinely surprised that this person would know anything. If he didn't say anything, then it shows that people he trusts are talking. Not that it is a big deal. I am talking, too. My networks are just much less entwined with his then his is with mine. I guess it isn't really that big a deal. I could have left it at that, but I went right back into my questions about OW. Wanting to know everything--"why does she think of you as her best friend?", "Why didn't I now you were that close?", "When did it begin?" "Why is she in such a rush to get us divorced?" He gave me nothing, but told me how his lawyer is aware of this "ambushing in front of the kids". The girls were inside. We were outside. I told him I just need answers. He just told me he owes me nothing we are done, blah blah blah. The girls came outside but they were nowhere near us. And I continued my interrogation. OW came to pick up her D while we were doing this. She didn't park or come in, but she asked her D to call him over. I walked out from the patio with him but didn't go to the car. It was brief--couple of seconds at most.
Ugh. I just want to know if it is an A or not--how do you know if a friendship is an EA? I don't think he is in love with her or thinks of her as a potential partner. She might have different ideas, IDK. He is really attractive, she is not. The problem is not so much what their relationship is, but that I care too much. I need to NOT CARE, but I'm obsessed with it. It gives him power. That makes me feel crazy. Honestly, I really just want her gone. D wants OW's D to come over again tomorrow and we agreed. She isn't going away.
See. I am not DBing at all anymore. I am doing the opposite. I am in a desperate place of think, if it is all over anyway then I am going no holds bar. I don't want this marriage I have right now. I don't even want the one I used to have. But I still want that man--that man that I am not so sure ever existed. I keep trying to dig him back out of this man who is rejecting me but it keeps making things worse. And i know better, but I just can't seem to stop myself. That is why I feel so crazy. Usually I can rationalize my way into a better place, but right now I am letting my emotions make all of the decisions and they are always really, really bad ones.
Sorry about your recent troubles mustardseed, I hope things get better for you.
I think we never really get an answer that satisfies us with why this is happening, so pressing our WAS for answers and discussions doesn't do much for us, yet we all it at times. I think that's one of the more difficult parts of this is accepting the answers we want or need don't really matter in the long run and might not even exist.
We all have those moments where we break down and fight for that answer, its normal. Just a week ago I was in tears after I found something that strongly suggested W slept with OM. I asked W why I wasn't good enough, why OM, why she pushed me away during the miscarriage and never let me be there, but she did HIM...... I hate I asked it because I felt like I was doing so well, but I was desperately grasping for anything at the moment to give me some comfort and/or closure. It was the first time I've been needy and desperate in a long time. What we need to accept is that the answer doesn't exist because it really isn't about us, its about them. We fight our battle, they fight theirs.
Also, give yourself some credit. Your going through an extremely difficult experience and loss, its normal to have wild thoughts and emotions. It takes time and patience with yourself to be able to control your emotions and let go. Your not crazy.
I haven't read all of your threads but I plan to when I get some time. I see some similarities just from the little I've read and what you posted on my thread that interests me.
Stay strong and keep moving forward.
Msd
It appears that it is the not knowing that is the problem. That it is the living in a position of hidden A, an insecure position. Is it or isn't it?
How can you be sure?
It is the gas lighting and hidden nature?
Who knows or thinks they know?
I am absolutely convinced that it is this denial by Msd. The insecurity of not wanting this to be true. That your H is saying selfishly that this scuzzy W is not an OW. In the meanwhile you are babysitting her daughter.
Msd you are too good to your H. This friendship or EA or PA is wholly inappropriate and needs to stop.
Msd you need peace from this, a space, a gap, this is not you being crazy, it is your sitch. There must be a way of confirming this to your own satisfaction. Msd as your DB friend I am convinced enough this is damaging to you. I am sure this is an R that you do not want to accept. An inappropriate R.
This is untenable, you are asking yourself to live in this tension in order to maintain an illusion of hope. Your H selfishness with this inappropriate R is harmful to you as is your denial, the denial of harm. Living in denial and harm is amongst the worst damage you can do to yourself. Msd this is like living in an alternate universe, when you live with a gambler or a hidden alcoholic there is this illusion. So it is with a hidden A.
Consider if this is a full on A what would you do? What evidence would satisfy you?
What will you do with the knowledge?
You will breathe, get support and DB. You will stop babysitting OW D, you will have hurt but you will have space to move on. I understand you wanting to maintain the status quo, and you use the word crazy.
You use this word crazy, you cry it out over and over wanting to be heard because the pretend life you live is different from the reality. Google the word gas lighting and know what this is doing to your soul. This dissonance and failure to see reality. This wanting something different from the reality is normal, it is usual for LBS.
I hear you Msd, I would like you to face the reality, to cry with pain for loss, for I truly believe this will release you. Call this A from the roof tops, be real, know the love Msd has for herself. Find a safe person and go cry with anger for the reality. No longer be isolated in real life. Forget about saving face and save yourself from further harm.
Msd then the word crazy will be only a word again.
V
Thank you V. I don't know what to do today. Ow d is coming over. I have no idea what h's plans are. I have work to do and dont feel like driving out to my parents. I was going to take d out there yesterday until she made these plans. Her friendship with this girl has never been this close before. In the 10 years they have known each other this girl has been to our house maybe 4 times. And my d has never gone to hers until ow family affair that was meant to include h. I don't know how to handle this situation. I won't say no to d. But I feel like I'm being played. I just went back and reread my threads from the beginning. I wish I just let go back then. i wish I never gave in to h's affection and believed things were getting better. I wish I never stopped DBing.
So what is the DB way to handle this. Not be around while ow's d is here and have him deal with it? I just have so much to do and I don't want to leave the kids the this weekend since I wasn't with them last weekend. Or stick around get my work done and keep up a pma? I feel like I want to just ruin his plans. Make things awkward for him. But part of me wonders how much of this is tgere doing to make it awkward for me. He wants to get out of paying child support. My L told me 25% of his salary was standard but his L must have told him something different. He told me he told his L how I was ambushing him in front of the kids every morning. I always bring things up when the kids aren't around but his double talk and avoidance usually drags things out until they are eavesdropping. I'm not going to get any answers. I have no control over anything that is happening anymore, and I don't know where my boundaries should be with this.
I was posting from my phone before so I didn't get to address your questions which I know is useful for helping me get past this.
Msd
It appears that it is the not knowing that is the problem. That it is the living in a position of hidden A, an insecure position. Is it or isn't it?
Not knowing is definitely part of what is making me crazy. The thing is that I don't think I will ever have an answer that satisfies me. I want to believe it is an EA or PA because then at least I will know I wasn't creating a villain to help me understand what has been going on. The friendship trumps our relationship--at least at this point in time and that is painful enough. Knowing it was an A at least makes me feel justified in my jealousy about the friendship. But I believe that my jealousy has put me in a bad position because they are able to use it to their advantage, whether it is an A or not.
How can you be sure?I don't think I ever will be. If it is just a friendship or EA I will never have adequate proof. If it was a PA, well, honestly a PA doesn't really cause the same amount of pain as the EA or friendship does. If it is a PA I know it will just crash and burn on its own. But the friendship or EA is the piece that has me feeling so betrayed. It is the friendship thrown in my face that keeps twisting the knife and is keeping me behaving badly. I need to stop letting it hurt. I need it to stop effecting me. Somehow if it was a PA I think I could move on a lot easier. I know that our sex life and physical attraction was never the issue. But the lack of friendship and intimacy was a vulnerable spot for us, and knowing he turned to someone else rather than trying to make it work with me is where the pain and betrayal lies.
It is the gas lighting and hidden nature?
Yes. When I read the definition of gaslighting, I think maybe we both do this to each other. He does it by withholding, not answering questions directly, double speak. very much like a politician. I think I might do it to, when I speaking emotionally. I don't really do it intentionally, but I just end up being all over the map and I end up contradicting myself or taking things back then bringing it up again. I end up being very confused and confusing. He seems a lot more deliberate with what he does. I keep trying to get answers but always end up more confused.
Who knows or thinks they know?
Only they know. If anyone else does, they won't tell. There is no one who will be able to give me the answers I need--except for them and they are playing games with me right now. He assures me he isn't. He just wants to be left alone. But I am pretty sure she is. D asked me yesterday of OWd could come over. I said yes. I noticed on D's phone that OWd was the one who invited herself over and told d to have H call her mom. This whole thing seems orchestrated to me. They live almost an hour away. It doesn't make sense to have weekend play dates and it has never happened before.
I am absolutely convinced that it is this denial by Msd. The insecurity of not wanting this to be true. That your H is saying selfishly that this scuzzy W is not an OW. In the meanwhile you are babysitting her daughter.I'm not so sure that I don't want it to be true because the friendship in and of itself hurts as much as any affair. I think that I want to know so that I feel justified in feeling the way I feel. I want confirmation that I am right, not that I am wrong. The only way I will be satisfied with being wrong is if it comes with tons of assurances the I am the only woman for him and he feels awful that this friendship made me feel this way. That isn't going to happen. And if it isn't going to happen then I would rather believe that this is an affair that will run its course, rather than a friend that gets to be involved in my family without me. This is pure clingyness on my part. I don't want to let go, but I have to.
Msd you are too good to your H. This friendship or EA or PA is wholly inappropriate and needs to stop.I feel the same way, but I have no control over that. Trying to control is the problem. I have to learn to let go of it. Stop making it my problem and let them run their course.
Msd you need peace from this, a space, a gap, this is not you being crazy, it is your sitch. There must be a way of confirming this to your own satisfaction. Msd as your DB friend I am convinced enough this is damaging to you. I am sure this is an R that you do not want to accept. An inappropriate R.I absolutely do not want to accept this R. But it is one of those things that I cannot control. The more I try the worse it gets. I don't think i will ever know the answer. Maybe once the D is final and I see how he moves on. But even then I will never know for sure.
This is untenable, you are asking yourself to live in this tension in order to maintain an illusion of hope. Your H selfishness with this inappropriate R is harmful to you as is your denial, the denial of harm. Living in denial and harm is amongst the worst damage you can do to yourself. Msd this is like living in an alternate universe, when you live with a gambler or a hidden alcoholic there is this illusion. So it is with a hidden A. I think I am living in denial. But I think the biggest denial I have right now is in believing there is a part of H that still cares about my well-being and feelings. Whether there is an A or not, H wants it hidden because it is causing me to behave badly and gives him leverage. He knows I want to know. Even if it isn't an A having me wonder gives him power.
Consider if this is a full on A what would you do? What evidence would satisfy you?I want to hear it from him. I think if it is a full on A and I get confirmation I will be able to let go and move on. It is the EA and friendship that makes it hard for me to let go. It is the knowledge that he is confiding in someone intimately who is very much involved in our children's lives separate from their relationship that brings out this mama bear, territorial instinct. That is what is making me behave in a way that is damaging to our relationship, to my self respect, and to our co-parenting relationship. If it was someone random, or even someone who knows our kids but doesn't have a relationship with them outside of him or us I don't think it would bother me so much. But it is these blurred lines of her being their teacher, us being mothers with Ds in the same class, her being his coworker, and their relationship that seems to have caused or was the result of their respective marital problems.
What will you do with the knowledge?
I think it will make me feel justified. I think it will allow me to just let go and move on. I know I need to do that anyway, but I am struggling because of all of the questions. I have to let go of having to know.
You will breathe, get support and DB. You will stop babysitting OW D, you will have hurt but you will have space to move on. I understand you wanting to maintain the status quo, and you use the word crazy.H, I, and OW made a deal that we will let the girls arrange their own play dates. They have agreed to that, and so now the plans are coming from them. It is a matter of us saying yes or no. If I am always the one to say no, then I am the getting in the middle of their friendship and I am the bad guy. I say yes. I wonder if I should stick around or leave. H will be in and out just like he was yesterday when she was over. I probably will be in and out to. It is supposed to be a beautiful day. Maybe I will take the dog to the dog park.
You use this word crazy, you cry it out over and over wanting to be heard because the pretend life you live is different from the reality. Google the word gas lighting and know what this is doing to your soul. This dissonance and failure to see reality. This wanting something different from the reality is normal, it is usual for LBS.
I hear you Msd, I would like you to face the reality, to cry with pain for loss, for I truly believe this will release you. Call this A from the roof tops, be real, know the love Msd has for herself. Find a safe person and go cry with anger for the reality. No longer be isolated in real life. Forget about saving face and save yourself from further harm.
Msd then the word crazy will be only a word again.
V
Thank you V. I have been crying to people. Too many people. I think that is part of why I am so ashamed. He says I am badmouthing him. I say I am trying to get answers and figure out what is going on. He isn't giving me anything and keeps telling me he doesn't have to. I get that he doesn't have to, but if he wants me to let go and move on then all he has to do is tell me what I need to know. It is a game. I have to be the first one to stop playing. I keep pushing button A and getting the same results. 180s need to be the way I go, but right now I don't even know what the 180 is since I feel like I have just been all over the map with how I handled things. I am spinning and getting no where. I need to take a step and move past this spot but I can't tell which way to step.
This morning I asked if OW got in touch with him about her d coming over because I was going to send a text to her and I wanted to be on the same page. He couldn't even give a straight answer for that. All he said is, "the girls arranged this, you can text her to find out the time." So I pushed, asked if she texted him at all about this. He just kept saying, "I know nothing, find out the time." Anyway, I don't know why it was so important for me to know if she contacted him about it. It doesn't give me any information except that she continues to bypass me with all of these plans. Finally he told me that yes she did mention that her d wanted to come over, but he doesn't want to be involved. I texted her to get the time. She hasn't responded, but I guess it is still early for a weekend. He hasn't mentioned if she got in touch with him since my text, and I know that he won't tell me. That is why I have to stop caring. I have to let go. I am trying to get control where I have none.
It has been a while since I have gone to an alanon meeting. Maybe it is time to get back there. My IC isn't helping me to let go.
If you do get the confirmation of PA would you be able to let go of the other "why" questions? I've found myself wanting to know if W has been physical also recently. I'm not sure what that will honestly do for me after the initial shock/pain wears off some. Part of me thinks it would help letting go/moving forward, another part thinks I would just obsess about it happening way too much.
I don't know if it will stop the questions. I think I want to know for self-righteous reasons. I'm probably better off not knowing and not wanting to know. Anyway, today's situation kind of took care of itself. I'm still mind reading here but h must have told ow to talk to me about the plans. Ow will be at the school for about an hour this afternoon so rather than having her over for the day they will hang out either at our house or at the school. I feel sane again. I went for a run. First run since September. My time was slow but I am proud that I stuck it out for the full time. While I was running it dawned on me that I do t need to feel justified in my feelings. They are my feelings and they are legit. It's my reaction to them that I am trying to justify, but behaving badly is behaving badly wnd there is no justification for that. Now how do I keep reminding myself of this as I proceed?
You could try to take a moment before you speak out and ask yourself what it would accomplish. Why are you wanting to ask what your asking and what could be the outcomes. It does take a lot of self control, but its possible. You already know hes not giving you any answers, or none that will satisfy you, so all its doing is hurting you.
I had to face this myself a while back because I kept directing any relationship talks we had to OM and asking about it. She would open up quite a bit about it eventually, even telling me she asked him to pick between his girlfriend and her and he choose his girlfriend. She also said something along the lines of "whatever its his loss, hes the one who's going to regret this and be miserable". Its then I somewhat realized I might not ever really get the answer I was looking for. I also realized just how far into a fantasy she is so mind reading is pointless.
I realized I needed to set a boundary, but it was with myself. I wouldn't talk about OM to W or discuss him unless it directly involved setting another boundary. I slipped up last week, but it happens. None of us are perfect.
Msd
These are your feelings, and you are entitled to them. 100% and more. You need never apologise for your feelings or justify them. Please do not deny them to yourself. You are clear to me. Your answers have clarified a great deal. Thank you.
This tension is untenable and is creating issues for you which it is ok for you to resolve. I now understand more, yes there is denial and not of the type I believed need clarifying.
Msd this EA is tacky and OW is a tacky horrid little scuzz. You can think of her as such and need not engage with her. She is less than you a downgrade on a wonderful wife such as Msd.
As a boundary you may state that if her interference with your daughters social and education life continues you may discuss the matter of breach of professional ethics unofficially. State that you are considering a change of schools for D and want to evaluate this. You can if you feel that this is for the best.
It is likely that OW colleagues are more than aware if there is an EA. In these sitches it is usually the OW that has to move on. This scuzzy is unprofessional at the very least.
Msd think about what you want to do and not what others want. Do what is best for you and your D.
Firstly, you are NOT crazy! You are being gaslighted even as your instincts say you are and things are unclear. This tension is unreasonable and your H wants it this way. Your gut reaction seems correct. Clearly you would be best if the truth were known.
Secondly, if you prefer to prevent your D play dates in your home do so. There is no reason why you can not limit your D friendships to those of your choosing. Unsuitable friends are unsuitable friends. Say "no" and let others resolve it.
You can try the elastic band technique and pinging it on your wrist as a reminder. That helped me keep screaming banshee in order for a long while. it is a classic CBT and straight from the manual, eventually it was unneeded but it worked.
Consider a new IC if this one is no longer helping you. As long as you need fresh eyes and ears then it's good to change the therapy and therapist. Do that which you need to do.
If I were Msd then my job considerations would come first for a short while.
Ignore if H is a master at manoeuvres with regard to Legal stuff. Msd your own counsel would be wise as you wear your heart on your sleeve. Even if H is irritated that does not matter, Msd has feelings too.
You do not have to do anythidng, you can do whatever you damn well please whenever you want. If you want to contact OW then do so, whenever you want to about whatever pleases you. Make your own mind up about it, it is ok, you need not apologise for it.
Make as much fuss as you want whenever you want to. Do this as a plan, a strategy, not to be nasty or make wild accusations, use the truth as a sword, it is your friend. Instead of being random be deliberate. You have your suspicions if they are neither confirmed nor denied then you have the right to discover and uncover the truth. That has to be better than where you are at the moment and would be a 180. This feeling of craziness can be resolved.
Otherwise be silent hold your own counsel as a tactic. Think of yourself as a secret agent on an undercover mission. If you want truth then you can have it, if it were V she would want this. It is not unreasonable, you could consider a three way meeting with this OW and H, they may or may not agree. Msd take care of you. You are worth it.
Msd the tide of feeling is turning in your favour you know this. Slowly slowly beginning to change. The edge of hopelessness is gone, Msd I am so very proud of you that I smile as I type this.
Your DB friend
V
Sorry fat finger syndrome again, posted too soon.
It suddenly occurred to me that H and OW may be trying to manage their way to the end of term.
V
It could be. He's been home all day. In and out a bit. I've been good. Pma. No more questions. Now it is a waiting game. He said he is waiting for a file number. I guess that means I'm getting served.surprised he actually followed through with this. I can wait it out. I'll call my lawyer monday and give her the heads up.
Msd
You got the power to blow this out of the water if you want.
V
So she came to pick up her d. She must have texted him when she got here because I saw her pull up and called upstairs to let her D know, but he was already upstairs getting the girls. Then he ran out to her car to chat. It took all of my self control to not make a snide comment. I waved, then went back in the house. I looked out the window (not good I know) and she pointed at me, then he went to the back of the car to make a fuss over her son like he always does. When her son was a baby she took him on a school overnight trip with her because she was breastfeeding so she, H, and her s drove up together. I thought it was great because it meant that he came home a night earlier. i really thought he was doing it for me, so that he wasn't away so long. Now I question everything. I highly doubt he would have an A with a woman who just gave birth to another man's son, but I always think that that might have been the moment where their friendship shifted from friendly coworkers, to emotionally connected, inappropriate friends. When he came back from the trip he told me that her S was hungry and he joked with her about just feeding him in front of him. He's a father and seen it before. That bothered me at the time, but I figured since he was telling me it must be innocent. So I let it go. But that keeps popping into my head now and again. That was 5 years ago.
Anyway, it took all of my self restraint to not make a comment. I didn't say anything. My heart was racing. I was trembling. I wanted to hit something really hard (her big ass head would have been nice). But I didn't say or do anything. Now he is dropping s13 off at a bar mitzvah. I wonder if he is going to come home or if he has plans for after drop off. A friend's mother is bringing S home. Part of me hopes that he just doesn't come home so that I don't feel tempted to pick.
Msd
You are allowed to say that you don't want this tramp at your house. A new baby and she is EA?
Yuk! What behaviour...........
Puke already, it is nasty. I would have a hard time with that too. Let it go though, accept its low, flush it with the dirty nappy behaviour. And my lovely we read some sad stuff but her kids have this behaviour in their mom? That's not good.
V
I'm seething. I just want to break down. I keep thinking of ways to get her fired. But I know focusing on them will only backfire on me. Talking to her about my side of things was probably the worst thing I could have done. He just texted me that he is going out and will be home by the time s gets home, I just responded ok. I'm trying to go dark. To let go. I have to do my lesson planning. I should just throw myself into that to distract myself from this pain. because it is this feeling that makes me want to pick a fight.
Msd
Tell me about Thursday timetables. If I understand mon to wed ok almost enjoyable. Thursday and I don't really understand what makes that day different. It sounds chaotic.
Is it a resource issue? Or a planning one?
Can the problems be worked around or overcome?
Will this happen every term?
V
You are not going to break down because you are getting angry. Just cut her from your life, completely. No more waving.
My sweet Msd, this is shifting.
V
I don't know how to set that boundary without it looking like I'm putting the kids in the middle. I think I really just need to move out. But I want to take the kids with me.
Msd
Which boundary would you like to tackle first?
Can you ask H to move out instead so you stay in your home. Would you prefer to move?
You can certainly say no OW comes to your home and if she does you will discuss the appropriateness of her professional behaviour, which you can do by letter or email. A simple request can do it. I said this by text to my H because he rants and OW stopped coming to my home. You could even try turning up at her home and even waving when picking up your D. Frankly though get lost to OW is best.
Your H works in a religious school? There may be religious counsellors there to discuss the issues with. Is that worth considering?
You can also say no calls or texts etc to H with OW. He leaves his phone in his car. Can you name OW and H in your D? Another matter to discuss on Monday with L.
These are clear boundaries, the Jewish faith is strong on family and respect. This is to enforce your boundaries not for revenge. If they back off then no need to enforce, your boundary, but you have to be prepared to do so.
V
We rent through h's employer. He said he would leave twice but never did. When I asked when it was happening he told me that he was advised not to. Once we are divorced I cannot live here. The housing is on campus. The campus where they both work. I can set a boundary that she not step foot in our home, but she never did anyway. As far as I know she has never been in our home except maybe to use the bathroom back when he used to throw a sports related bbq every year after graduation. I think I just need to leave. I just have to talk to the l about how to do that with the kids.
I hear him downstairs right now and it is taking all of my self control to not go down and start a conversation. He doesn't deserve my time or attention anymore.
OK
I get it now. Campus life, job related accommodation tied to H job. Tough one Msd.
You really need peace and quiet. A space of your own to grieve and relax. I know the feeling. I would love to reach across the miles and go for a lovely long walk in the fresh air and discuss nothing but the breeze with you.
I know you are seeing L tomorrow so that is another step in the right direction.
Peace and quiet, rest and tomorrow will come. H deserves nothing from you.
V
Thanks v. I love reading your posts. They mean a lot to me. I survived the day and let my anger propel me forward rather than staying stuck. I stayed dark. And it got easier as the day went on. I'm making plans. I got tickets to see a matinee next weekend. I'm going alone but through a meetup group so the price was better than it would be. I'm excited and nervous to do it. Before marriage and kids I loved going to the theater but it isn't his thing, and Broadway has gotten so expensive it was hard to justify the cost. I also made plans to take surf lessons with my sister this summer. I developed a fear of waves sometime in my early teens, as a kid I was a fish and loved getting Thrown around in waves. Then all of a sudden I got skiddish. So what better way to reinvent myself then to overcome that fear.
I still have no idea if I will have my job come june. But I'm not so worried about it anymore. If I have it--great! I'll have to work over the summer but it will be a shorter day. So I can still do my surfing. If I don't have my job--something else will come along. And I will get my summer pay and apply for unemployment. And look for a new job. I will move out as soon as legally advisable and stay with my parents until I can get back on my feet. I am going to move on and rihht now the only people I need to care about is myself, my kids, and my dog. He can drop off the face of the earth with whatever old hag he chooses.