Hello All,
I have been reading this forum for a while now and I thought I would post my story. However, I thought I would post a bit of a back story first:
My W and I have been married for almost 14 years now. She had been a stay home mom ever since S12 was born we also have another S9. She recently went back to work full time, but works nights. I work full-time during the day.
We had a fight back in 11/14 where we both agreed that we needed counseling, so we went separately. Afterwards, we agreed to work on our M. From 11/14 - 12/14 the W was very distant (wouldn't sit next to me and would barely touch me).
So during mid 12/14 we had another discussion and she said she was pretty much done with our M. She reluctantly agreed to try couples counseling, but said that she didn't see how it could work. She also moved her stuff into the spare bedroom.
So from that point until early 1/15 I tried all of the things I shouldn't have: crying, begging, chasing, reasoning. None of it worked. She'd just turn cold and say the nastiest things to me (very unlike her).
I found this site in early 1/15 and have been applying sandi2's rules, which has helped a lot (thanks!). I also got the DB book.
However, I think we got probably the worst MC imaginable! We took a step back from what little progress we had made prior to our first session. In our second session (last week) the W said she plans to move forward with the D.
We had a brief discussion about the D that evening, but it hasn't come up since then (and I'm not going to bring it up).
I'm lost. I don't want to lose my family. I love her and my boys more than anything. I have been reading books, blogs, and even signed up for coaching as well. I hope I can save my marriage!
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Now that this is up, a little more background info:
I don't think she is having an A. I do think that she has someone in mind though. She has recently changed some of her habits and it is a bit puzzling. She never used to like salsa/dance music, but now she obsesses over it. Plus she smells like a perfume factory when she leaves for work in the evening. And she spends hours getting ready for work and her work has a very casual dress code.
We normally get along fine. Our fights are usually brief and get resolved somewhat quickly. However, I usually avoid conflict by withdrawing. So when we do argue, she does most of the talking and I get quiet and withhold affection. She would usually have to chase me down and agree to whatever my side of the argument was. This is something I have been working on with my IC (I'm still going, even though she stopped).
Another thing is that she complained about me not helping around this house. So now I have been busting my hump making sure the house is in order. I originally violated Sandi2's rule by telling her, but now I just do it. No matter how tired I am at the end of the day I make that the dishes are done, floors swept, and there is clean laundry for everyone. I also do most of the cooking as well (something I truly like to do).
She does say that I am a good father because I am always willing to help the boys with whatever they need. And I am usually the one that does out-of-the-house stuff with them. Plus, since she works nights I am responsible for bathing, homework, and bedtime duties.
However, I have cut my morning workouts short to come home and help get the kids ready for school. This isn't something she complained about, but I know she struggles with this because of her work schedule. And we have also received notices from the school about tardiness. So I make sure they are up, dressed, and fed in the morning. If she wakes up and takes them to school, fine. If not, I take them before going to work myself.
Some of my GAL activities:
Signed up for a half marathon. Going to start training as soon as it warms up.
I am planning on taking up both golf and boxing. Thanks to Groupon and Craigslist, I can find lessons and equipment really cheap.
I started going to the gym again (stopped in 11/14 when the problems first arose).
I bought some board games to play with the kids.
More later...
Thanks Cadet.
The word "eat" in your post should be in BOLD face. I think I've lost around 15 pounds in three months. It's not healthy, but it is something that I struggle with.
Just thought of something, could this be a different form of the "7 year itch"? We are coming up on 14 years.
Random stuff like this pops up in my head...
Now that this is up, a little more background info:
I don't think she is having an A. I do think that she has someone in mind though. She has recently changed some of her habits and it is a bit puzzling. She never used to like salsa/dance music, but now she obsesses over it. Plus she smells like a perfume factory when she leaves for work in the evening. And she spends hours getting ready for work and her work has a very casual dress code.
When did this new behavior of hers start? Maybe Oct/early-Nov of last year perhaps?
Starsky
Thanks Cadet.
The word "eat" in your post should be in BOLD face. I think I've lost around 15 pounds in three months. It's not healthy, but it is something that I struggle with.
This is called the LBS Diet and is quite popular on this and other marriage websites.
Welcome to the club, keep posting and yes
EAT and in general take care of YOU
Amen to that. I lost 20 pounds in about 4 weeks after BD. For me, it's been one of the few silver linings.
Now that this is up, a little more background info:
I don't think she is having an A. I do think that she has someone in mind though. She has recently changed some of her habits and it is a bit puzzling. She never used to like salsa/dance music, but now she obsesses over it. Plus she smells like a perfume factory when she leaves for work in the evening. And she spends hours getting ready for work and her work has a very casual dress code.
When did this new behavior of hers start? Maybe Oct/early-Nov of last year perhaps?
Starsky
Yep, right around that time.
When did this new behavior of hers start? Maybe Oct/early-Nov of last year perhaps?
Starsky
Yep, right around that time.
And how do you think I knew that?
I would suggest that she set you up for the fight on Nov. 14th -- it's classic script -- to justify an affair that she had already begun.
Would that be a dealbreaker for you?
I'm not suggesting this to upset you, but rather to get you to dig a little further to find out what you're up against, and to also use this time to determine what your OWN core, non-negotiable boundaries are. Many of us thought, for example, that we could NEVER be married after our wives cheated on us, but when faced with it we made it thru the other side, better than ever.
Starsky
Starsky309 is very right. If you read around here, you'll see that plenty of us have been told that our WAW had an affair when we didn't know or think they didn't. Yet, the truth came out. In my case, she was leaving me "to be alone, to find her true self, not to be in a couple", etc. Of course, she had an OM. Card29 found out after the 7-month affair was over and he was D. In fact, it's a classic script here: rookies arrive, say they don't think there's an A but there are a few signs and then after a few weeks or months, are flabbergasted that their suddenly nice-dressing and nice-smelling wife had someone. The change in attitude is also a big one. Oh and what about her cellphone? Could it be that she spends more time on it? That she's more secretive about it recently?
We don't know, but we've seen plenty of people in your situation and I still don't know one that didn't discover an OM later. It could be something useful to know (don't just ask her, she will deny and cover her tracks). Also, start thinking about your reaction.
Welcome to the boards, by the way.
And how do you think I knew that?
I would suggest that she set you up for the fight on Nov. 14th -- it's classic script -- to justify an affair that she had already begun.
Would that be a dealbreaker for you?
I'm not suggesting this to upset you, but rather to get you to dig a little further to find out what you're up against, and to also use this time to determine what your OWN core, non-negotiable boundaries are. Many of us thought, for example, that we could NEVER be married after our wives cheated on us, but when faced with it we made it thru the other side, better than ever.
Starsky
Right now I feel that a PA would be a deal breaker. But that could change.
I also did some snooping (I now know it violates the rules) and found no hard evidence that would indicate that she is cheating (no texts, calls, etc). So if she is, she is covering it up VERY well. But like I said, I definitely think that she has her eye on someone. And a strong possibility of an EA that may turn to a PA, but that's it. I can handle an EA.
She rarely goes out, so the only time she could actually do something would be during the day while the kids are at school and I am at work. Is it possible? Absolutely.
The other thing I noticed is that she is becoming more and more protective of her cell phone (again, no strange texts or calls though). She even takes it into the bathroom when she showers! When I am able to peek over her shoulder and see what she's doing, she is usually browsing something related to salsa music.
Right now I feel that a PA would be a deal breaker. But that could change. . . But like I said, I definitely think that she has her eye on someone. And a strong possibility of an EA that may turn to a PA, but that's it. I can handle an EA.
Classic dumb-azz male mistake (and I say that as a charter member of the DAMs!). To a woman, the strong emotional attachment of an emotional affair is even MORE of a betrayal than the physical act of sex. Only men say "only" an EA. If you doubt me, ask the women on here.
Starsky
I also did some snooping (I now know it violates the rules) and found no hard evidence that would indicate that she is cheating (no texts, calls, etc). So if she is, she is covering it up VERY well. . . .
The other thing I noticed is that she is becoming more and more protective of her cell phone (again, no strange texts or calls though). She even takes it into the bathroom when she showers!
I suspect she's chatting via one of her apps, and not thru the text messaging of the phone itself.
I could be wrong, of course, but please keep your eyes and ears wide open.
Starsky
Leon
I hate to break it to you but I think you already know the answer. My wife was exactly the same. If you read my story one of the last things she did that confirmed it for me was that she took her phone into bathroom when having a shower. I mean wtf! She might as well have just put a sign on her back. The next night I got access to her phone and had all the proof I needed. Everything then just dropped into place. It's always the same. It's amazing really from a human habit point of view.
It's up to you whether you need to know. I know I did. Let me brace you though. The pain is almost unbearable. Starsky is right as well. An affair for a woman is not about sex. You have to see past that or it will drive you mad. Women have pa for the emotional connection. My wife is with a man that I know 100% she would never look twice at in the street. He is a lot older, not good looking smokes drinks just not her type at all. Her dream man is Zinedine zidane (french footballer) who like me is bald but and this the big but he has connected with her where I have been failing. This is how an affair starts and continues as long as those needs are being met. It's usually a friend or work colleague.
I hope for you I'm wrong, maybe I am, it just all sounds so familiar.
Be strong keep busy enjoy spending time with your kids
Starsky309 is very right. If you read around here, you'll see that plenty of us have been told that our WAW had an affair when we didn't know or think they didn't. Yet, the truth came out. In my case, she was leaving me "to be alone, to find her true self, not to be in a couple", etc. Of course, she had an OM. Card29 found out after the 7-month affair was over and he was D. In fact, it's a classic script here: rookies arrive, say they don't think there's an A but there are a few signs and then after a few weeks or months, are flabbergasted that their suddenly nice-dressing and nice-smelling wife had someone. The change in attitude is also a big one. Oh and what about her cellphone? Could it be that she spends more time on it? That she's more secretive about it recently?
We don't know, but we've seen plenty of people in your situation and I still don't know one that didn't discover an OM later. It could be something useful to know (don't just ask her, she will deny and cover her tracks). Also, start thinking about your reaction.
Welcome to the boards, by the way.
Thanks!
Wow! I was typing my reply to Starsky309 when your post showed up. I guess I am going to have to do some more digging and see what comes up. And think about my reaction.
Now that I think about it there are some other behaviors that I have noticed. Maybe some of you vets can look at:
Yes, she's very protective of her cell phone. I am able to get to it at times and so far have not found any hard evidence.
However, there was a message to her sister about looking for good wines. At the time, I didn't think much of it because she likes to drink wine. But it is suspicious now.
She originally accused me of having an PA with a MALE friend of ours.
Her attitude towards me and the kids is different now. Before, she was super protective of the kids. Now she doesn't seem to care what they do. She gets irritated if they ask her for something.
I asked and she outright denied having an A with anyone.
She has taken treats to work (more than enough for herself).
Knitted a mini-sweater (she said it was a gag gift) for a male co-worker this past Christmas.
Leon
Db stance is don't snoop and that's for self preservation.
The pain I'm in now and will be for a long time I wish I didn't actually know. Has anything changed? Apart from that the secret is out and we're both in pain...no. She still continues to see the OM and she will continue for as long as he fills that emotional need. What I see and have seen in other stories is we both fill her needs. OM has the emotional connection makes her feel great. She feels in love again but then I fill her need to have a family life someone supportive at home.
She likes wearing her secret expensive glass slippers but when she comes home she puts her old comfy ones back on. Nothing I can say will persuade her otherwise. Only she will decide when done, if ever.
like I say I hope I'm wrong
Starsky,
Thanks for the input. I will definitely keep my eyes open. I never really thought of the difference between a PA and EA, but this behavior is so unlike her. It is like she's a different person. And it all changed over the period of a month.
I didn't see any chat/text apps on her phone, but it is still a possibility that it is hidden somewhere.
SRD,
The pain right now is pretty tough. I have to put on a happy face with the kids around and be strong for them. It kills me that she is doing this to them more than anything.
Funny thing is that cleaning the house does take my mind off of what is going on. So I suspect the house will be spotless tonight.
Now that I think about it there are some other behaviors that I have noticed. Maybe some of you vets can look at:
Yes, she's very protective of her cell phone. I am able to get to it at times and so far have not found any hard evidence.
However, there was a message to her sister about looking for good wines. At the time, I didn't think much of it because she likes to drink wine. But it is suspicious now.
She originally accused me of having an PA with a MALE friend of ours.
Her attitude towards me and the kids is different now. Before, she was super protective of the kids. Now she doesn't seem to care what they do. She gets irritated if they ask her for something.
I asked and she outright denied having an A with anyone.
She has taken treats to work (more than enough for herself).
Knitted a mini-sweater (she said it was a gag gift) for a male co-worker this past Christmas.
Take everything I said and
x 3
It is like she's a different person. And it all changed over the period of a month.
Leon,
Wow, hate to chime in here, but reading quickly; this is my sitch all over again. Everything just fine than BAM lie a totally different person in every aspect. Personality, kids, friends, everything.
Hate to do it, but I was same boat.....no way of an A, then we'll maybe an EA, then friends started to piece things together, then I started looking and saw it. Over 30 different things I saw.
Confronted, denied; but I had so much proof that I kept pushing her. Finally she confessed. She was having an A for more than a year. Going out with him in her lunch hour and her days off from work. I thought it would be a deal breaker too, but I then realized I was still in if she made some huge changes.
I thought after confrontation and confession, we could start working on M, but like Starsky said, the emotional connection for women is more poisonous than anything physical. Goes against a guy's mentality. Her OM didn't leave his relationship and it seems she's still hanging on trying to get him to leave and go with her.
We don't mean to beat it into your head, but trying to prepare you. Also......do not let her know how you are looking. Starsky told me that and like an idiot, when we were being 'honest' I told her how I found out. Then boom all of those loopholes closed up and communication wnet to nothing.
If you want, go back and read my thread "I thought everything was okay". So similar. I had a scripted fight set up from her. It was a normal night, then some little thing we were discussing than "I'm checking out of the marriage" my main struggle has been the personality change, it's been so difficult.
Starsky is right, my W took the A to the next level (or tried to anyway) about 1-2 months before BD. I think that's the guilt ticking time bomb that is so prevalent. The WAS can't keep up with lies. Sorry that we are all downers on this.
Hang in there, we're all here for ya.
I know I shouldn't have, but I checked her phone again. Only to find about a dozen pictures of some guy from her work. Ugh. Looks like you guys were right.
I initially thought about confronting her tonight, but thought against it. So thanks for the advice, MCS. Going to play it cool this weekend. And yes I am starting to see that an EA is more damaging than a PA.
And many thanks for the support. Need it more than ever.
I'm so sorry. I really do NOT like to be right on these things, trust me.
DO NOT CONFRONT HER YET. You need something more solid. For now, just keep your cool and DON'T PURSUE HER. Follow Sandi's 37 rules.
Who moved out of the marital bedroom, you or her?
Leon,
I'll give you the advice that Starsky gave me. You can only play that card once. Prepare for it. Get in a better emotional state before you do anything.
- As much as it stinks, let it sink in for a little bit. Your first reaction is not how things are when you balance your thinking
- she's not going to confess or just give you only as much as she thinks you know.
- one of the toughest things is to be stern about the affair. Read around here and you'll see we all start with the nice guy attitude with limited success
- but don't be a jerk, your wife is in pain and in her head its you that caused this, you drove her to do this because you didn't care. Of course this isn't true, but when you try to convince her you do, she doesn't believe it but if your a jerk about it, she then confirms in her head that that's how you were all along
- take care of your kids. The most painful thing is watching the mother of our kids hurt them. It took me 5 months to get some clarity between what I was doing to try and help our M and what I was doing to help the kids
- don't try and convince her of ANYTHING. It will backfire, my kids beg her to come home and she still doesn't believe it to be how they actually feel
- Eat like we said. I lost 30lbs in 2 months.
- you will not be able to think of anything else for a while, but force yourself to try. It will slowly fade and you will be able to concentrate better
- please realize that your not alone. You probably already feel it, but just hearing the stuff on this thread has probably given you some comfort that your sitch is not unique
- as much as you don't believe it now, stick with the boards and you will be okay on the backside of all of this, whether with her or not.
Again, we're all here for you. It's a tumultuous ride for you right now, but we've all been there. There's no easy answer to get out of this. It's like getting into an accident, the initial damage is done, it's how we react and press forward that makes all of the difference.
Thinking about you in all of this
Leon,
Sorry to find you in this heartbreaking situation. You are on the best site you could be on to help yourself and maybe even save your marriage.
At this point you have found that there is a possibility of an EA. IMO I would not snoop anymore. The reason I say that is for your own sanity. This is my second time DBing and I played private detective the first time around and I can say all I did was mess up my head by the things I found out abt her affairs. You want to DB mostly to help yourself and it would be easier if don't know the details. I thought I could snoop and DB, but I did too much backsliding when I found hurtful things she was doing.
My first go around was successful, we ended up getting remarried a couple yrs after the D. I am back here again because of several reasons, but one of the major reasons is I got lazy and forget to use what I learned the first time.
Try your best to follow Sandi's 37 rules, I read them every few days to help me stay focused.
I'm so sorry. I really do NOT like to be right on these things, trust me.
DO NOT CONFRONT HER YET. You need something more solid. For now, just keep your cool and DON'T PURSUE HER. Follow Sandi's 37 rules.
Who moved out of the marital bedroom, you or her?
She moved out of the master bedroom.
I'm so sorry. I really do NOT like to be right on these things, trust me.
DO NOT CONFRONT HER YET. You need something more solid. For now, just keep your cool and DON'T PURSUE HER. Follow Sandi's 37 rules.
Who moved out of the marital bedroom, you or her?
She moved out of the master bedroom.
Good
Just stay put there.
Do not move out of the house either.
Let her do that if she chooses.
Good
Just stay put there.
Do not move out of the house either.
Let her do that if she chooses.
Right now, neither of us can afford to move out of the house. Speaking of that, we are so far upside down on our mortgage (~$50K) I am not sure what we are even going to do with the house anyway. We have two mortgages, so short selling or foreclosing probably isn't an option (at least from what I have been reading).
JBird, MCS, Starsky,
Thanks so much for the advice. I was so distraught last night that I didn't do any cleaning. Fortunately, I awoke around 3am and got some stuff done.
We only said "Good morning" to each other today and I plan to leave it at that. She has been on her phone pretty much all morning.
Tonight is going to be interesting because we both will be home.
Hi Leon, look after yourself. it's very hard not to focus on W and what she doing and it will take some doing, listen to the experts on here.
You are not alone so post as much as you want. This is the place to spew, not at your W.
Take care, RD
Hi Leon, look after yourself. it's very hard not to focus on W and what she doing and it will take some doing, listen to the experts on here.
You are not alone so post as much as you want. This is the place to spew, not at your W.
Take care, RD
Thanks. The hardest thing for me right now is eating. I feel hungry, but feel sick to my stomach after about three bites of food. S9 has noticed and asked "Daddy, are you going to eat tonight?" It kills me to see that they notice. And the W probably knows as well.
Hi Leon, yes, eating can be tough in the early days. It's important to look after yourself though. Maybe stock up on some 'invalid' foods that you fancy - yoghurts, smoothies etc. Eating little and often is a good idea too. It will get better, and try not to worry - we all go through that, and it will pass.
Thanks. I have been trying those shakes you get at the health food stores which has helped.
Thanks. I have been trying those shakes you get at the health food stores which has helped.
Good. This was exactly what I was going to suggest.
Starsky
I'm going to differ from some other posters on this, but I would NOT -- yet -- discontinue the gathering of intel. You still do not have NEAR enough information about what's going on. If you find you can't handle the data raw, then ask a trusted 3rd party to view/listen to it, but if it were me (and it was, 7.5 years ago) I would be gathering MORE intel right now, not LESS.
Snooping isn't advised because it messes with your detachment. I say there are things you can do to minimize that, and then when you have what you need, THEN you stop doing it except for periodic checks or to, say, confirm a promised no-contact pledge from her or something (more on that separately).
Right now, you should be in this mode:
1) taking care of yourself, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
2) taking care of your sons (yes, this is 2nd, but only in the "put the oxygen mask over your own face first, so you can then safely help your children" sense).
3) GAL.
4) READ everything you can on affairs; learn the patterns, learn how to deal with them and how to protect yourself during this phase.
5) (and this isn't 5th overall, but rather an over-arching thing above the other four) -- DB. What are those things you let slip about yourself during your marriage? What are the legitimate self-improvements you need to make? What things is the OM providing to your wife emotionally that you were not? What would the next 100 days look like for you and your kids if your wife were suddenly killed in a tragic car accident? (sorry to be so morbid, but the concept is sound -- how would you live your life?). That sort of thing.
Who pays for her cellphone, and do you get detailed billing on it?
Starsky
She originally accused me of having an PA with a MALE friend of ours.
Any chance this could be her OM??
I ask because early on in affairs (especially EAs), before the betrayed spouse finds out and before the cheating spouse gets confronted or exposed, the cheating spouse will often get their "fix" -- their "rush" -- by talking about their OP to their spouse. Then, as their affair progresses and/or as it's exposed, they of course will clam up.
Just a wild thought.
Starsky
Another update: Again, I know I am violating the rules. But I am just more curious.
W left her FB account logged in so I decided to take a peek. Her two most recent searches were of two hispanic guys (remember the salsa music) from her work. One is married with a kid and the other has been in a LTR since '07. The married guy looks a lot like the guy in the pictures on her phone. Odd....
She originally accused me of having an PA with a MALE friend of ours.
Any chance this could be her OM??
I ask because early on in affairs (especially EAs), before the betrayed spouse finds out and before the cheating spouse gets confronted or exposed, the cheating spouse will often get their "fix" -- their "rush" -- by talking about their OP to their spouse. Then, as their affair progresses and/or as it's exposed, they of course will clam up.
Just a wild thought.
Starsky
I doubt he is her OM. He's married with a kid (not that it matters) and I am closer to him and his family than she is. This guy works in a different town as well. I think the OM is definitely someone from her work.
This all COULD just be "unrequited love/infatuation" stuff at this point, and she COULD be guarding her phone just so that you don't see these kinds of searches. This is why I still recommend you gather some better intel before making any rash and potentially life-altering decisions.
btw, it's a common MYTH around here that MWD has a hard-and-fast "no snooping" rule. In fact on p. 226 of Divorce Remedy, she even goes so far as to recommend the use of a keylogger if you suspect your spouse is guilty of internet infidelity.
Here's my own philosophy on it, copied and pasted from my personal archives:
On snooping “makes you nuts” – I say just the opposite! :
You know, it's funny, but every time I get into one of our frequent "Snooping is bad!" debates around here (I am very pro-intel, as you all know), one of the arguments that the anti-snooping crowd always give is, basically, "It'll make you nuts!"
I contend just the opposite. Us humans are wired to fear -- to "go nuts" -- over the UNKNOWN, not the KNOWN.
Ronald Reagan said, of the Soviets, "Trust -- but verify." It is in that verification that we can either find STRENGTH AND PEACE OF MIND (if nothing is going on), or KNOWLEDGE AND DISCERNMENT about the right course of action (if something is).
For the life of me, I can't see anything wrong with that.
Pro’s and Con’s of “Snooping”:
1. to verify initially whether or not there is infidelity involved in your sitch, so that you can attack it appropriately.
2. to establish evidence/grounds for a possible divorce action if yours is a "fault" state.
3. to gather evidence for a possible custody battle, and to help you make a determination as to whether or not you SHOULD go for custody (is the cheating spouse engaging in risky behavior that would make them a poor parent in their current state).
4. to determine what it is that OM/OW is providing your spouse, so that you may begin to better provide it. To determine what OM/OW is doing that ticks your spouse off, so that you can avoid those behaviors.
5. as an early warning system for any possible financial or legal threats.
6. to monitor what outside pressures are having an affect on your spouse (her parents, her friends, your adult children, etc.).
7. to determine if the affair has gotten physical (medical risk).
8. to verify no-contact once no-contact and transparency have been agreed to as part of reconciliation.
9. to determine the extent to which you believe OM/OW may be a threat to your spouse and/or your family (ex.: abuse, unstable behavior, etc.).
10. to expose deceitful tactics of the cheating spouse which, if unverified, may lead you to make false assumptions and tactical errors (ex.: cheating spouse says they want to go to MC to try to work on reconciling the marriage, but they confide to a BF that they are only doing it to buy time while they squirrel away marital assets to be used on a divorce).
Those are some "pro's" just off the top of my head.
On the "con" side, all I can come up with is:
1. If you don't control your emotions, you may not be able to handle it.
I'm sorry, this whole "snooping is BAD!" thing, to me, is just one of those mantras that gets mindlessly repeated, until it becomes part of the official catechism, without stopping to consider the real merits of it.
Puppy
Thanks again Starsky.
I do think it is more of an infatuation than an EA (right now, at least). For one, none of the pictures on her phone were actual poses. It looks like the guy was unaware he was being photographed. The pictures were from the side or back. Which also makes it a little hard to tell if it is the guy from FB.
She is really submerging herself into latino culture. Learning spanish, eating mostly mexican dishes, and of course the salsa music.
Outside of work, shopping, and getting the kids to and from school, she rarely leaves the house. She's gone out once in the past 6-7 months.
A-freaking-men to Starsky's snooping post.
You need more information, not less, right now, Leon.
You're in amazing hands. Follow the advice you're being given. Hang on tight. And TRUST the process, even when it seems backwards.
Hang in there!
Also, we have a shared cell phone account in her name. We don't get detailed billing, but I can look up call records online. And I have checked all the way back to October and don't see anything unusual.
Texts are a different though. I can only see the number of texts delivered. So what I do is keep an count of the number of texts and compare that with the texts she sends me. The count may be off by 1 or 2 a week. And when the number are way off (more than say, 5), she'll usually say something like "I got a text from my mom today". Could she be lying? Possibly. But she doesn't know that I am checking. So it doesn't make sense.
Also, we have a shared cell phone account in her name. We don't get detailed billing, but I can look up call records online. And I have checked all the way back to October and don't see anything unusual.
Texts are a different though. I can only see the number of texts delivered. So what I do is keep an count of the number of texts and compare that with the texts she sends me. The count may be off by 1 or 2 a week. And when the number are way off (more than say, 5), she'll usually say something like "I got a text from my mom today". Could she be lying? Possibly. But she doesn't know that I am checking. So it doesn't make sense.
Good deal -- I'm glad you're checking. She could however be texting internally thru another app (ex.: you can text with people you're playing with in Words With Friends), and it's also very typical that cheating spouses have 2nd "affair phones" (usually prepaid). Just keep your eyes and ears open; of all the things you reported to us it was the "suddenly treating the kids very coldly" thing that jumped out the most.
Can I ask you a personal question? Are you guys still ML? If so, does she kiss you on the lips? Does she kiss you on the lips even OUTSIDE of making love?
Starsky
Leon,
You can look for some apps on her phone. Snapchat is one. And Kik. There are also free texting apps. Not to make you feel too overwhelmed, but my D17 was telling me about an app that looks like a calculator and is even titled "calculator." The user opens in, plugs in four numbers and hits =. That's the passcode to get in.
Ridiculous.
My H and XOW were using Snapchat a lot. I didn't even realize it was on his phone. Then they started using a free texting app.
As long as your eyes are open, you'll find what you need.
Also, we have a shared cell phone account in her name. We don't get detailed billing, but I can look up call records online. And I have checked all the way back to October and don't see anything unusual.
Texts are a different though. I can only see the number of texts delivered. So what I do is keep an count of the number of texts and compare that with the texts she sends me. The count may be off by 1 or 2 a week. And when the number are way off (more than say, 5), she'll usually say something like "I got a text from my mom today". Could she be lying? Possibly. But she doesn't know that I am checking. So it doesn't make sense.
Good deal -- I'm glad you're checking. She could however be texting internally thru another app (ex.: you can text with people you're playing with in Words With Friends), and it's also very typical that cheating spouses have 2nd "affair phones" (usually prepaid). Just keep your eyes and ears open; of all the things you reported to us it was the "suddenly treating the kids very coldly" thing that jumped out the most.
Can I ask you a personal question? Are you guys still ML? If so, does she kiss you on the lips? Does she kiss you on the lips even OUTSIDE of making love?
Starsky
We haven't been intimate since BD2 (December).
I should also say that our sex life up to that point had been boring. Between BD1 and BD2 I tried to do things to spice it up (massages, flirting, pecks on her neck, etc.) But she was turning cold then.
She could have a "burner" phone, but again she hides it well.
I should also say that our sex life up to that point had been boring. Between BD1 and BD2 I tried to do things to spice it up (massages, flirting, pecks on her neck, etc.) But she was turning cold then.
This is very typical. A woman, especially, will (as sick as it sounds) feel like she's CHEATING on her OM if she makes love to her own husband. Or they will have sex, but won't kiss their husband on the mouth (I've never seen this with men, but very typical with women .. kissing is a high form of intimacy to them).
Whatever she's doing, she's probably doing 5x more of it during the day. That's where I would focus my efforts, but only SECONDARY to your own self-improvements.
Starsky
Leon,
You can look for some apps on her phone. Snapchat is one. And Kik. There are also free texting apps. Not to make you feel too overwhelmed, but my D17 was telling me about an app that looks like a calculator and is even titled "calculator." The user opens in, plugs in four numbers and hits =. That's the passcode to get in.
Ridiculous.
My H and XOW were using Snapchat a lot. I didn't even realize it was on his phone. Then they started using a free texting app.
As long as your eyes are open, you'll find what you need.
The problem is that I have VERY limited access to her phone. And I have to be extremely sneaky when doing it. I don't want her to start using a pass code on it. For example, last night she finally forgot to take it to the shower with her, so I had about 15 minutes. BUT I had to keep checking to make sure she didn't exit the bathroom unexpectedly and the phone was in her room. So if she caught me in there the game would be up. So I'd take a minute to check it, bail, listen to the noise in the bathroom, and check again.
I try to check the background apps she leaves running and her web browsing history. The apps on the main screens are the usual ones.
I'll tell you my own story on this subject, since it's on-topic right now. Again, from my own archives:
“A Wayward Will Eventually Let Their Guard Down”:
My wife also kept wiping her cellphone -- call log and TMs -- a couple of times every day, and also kept the phone with her (or near her) 24/7, it seemed.
I also noticed, that NOW THAT SHE FELT CONFIDENT THAT SHE HAD IT WITH HER ALL THE TIME, she no longer locked it.
So I began to study her habits/patterns every day. And I noticed that every morning, she woke up before I did, came downstairs, put on her shoes, and went outside to get the paper (we were sleeping in separate rooms at this time, me in the master BR and her upstairs in our daughter's old room).
I also noticed (made a beeline/"dry run" up there one morning when she went out to get the paper) that she kept her phone up there after she woke up, near her "bed" (a sleeping bag on the furniture-less room floor), charging, and UNLOCKED.
I quickly set the phone back down where I had found it, and slipped downstairs back into my bed. But I had my plan.
I went online and got a .pdf of her cellphone instructions, as I knew I wouldn't have much time with it, and would have to use that time quickly and wisely, and couldn't afford to be stumbling around with the buttons (I was totally unfamiliar with her phone). I studied the owners manual until I knew the navigation for call log and especially TEXT MESSAGES, frontwards and back. I waited for my opportunity, making sure to begin CLOSING MY BEDROOM DOOR EVERY NIGHT WHEN I WENT TO BED (I hadn't previously; had left it open a crack).
This I did for a week or two.
One morning, after a night where she had gone to bed early and I KNEW she was text messaging up there in her room, I pretended like I was asleep, and waited for her to go out and get the newspaper. When she did, I bolted up out of bed, left my bedroom, and shut the door the way behind me. I ran upstairs, went into her bedroom, and quietly closed the door behind me. There, next to her sleeping bag, was her cellphone, unlocked.
I spent the next 5 minutes looking at more than I needed to know, or that I wanted to see. Lots of "ILYs" and "no one does it for me like you do's" (this after she claimed the affair was over, and they were "just friends" again). Made sure to check both a few Sent Items and a few INbox, to make sure this wasn't a one-sided affair.
It wasn't.
I laid the phone back down, and came out of her bedroom and into our upstairs game room, and just went on the family computer for about 10-15 minutes. She was now downstairs, reading the newspaper at the kitchen table, just as she always did.
After awhile, I came down the stairs, and gave her a cheery "G'morning!"
She looked like she had seen a ghost, and the poor girl probably wet herself.
"W-w-what are you doing up?" she stammered.
"Oh, I couldn't sleep -- just went on the computer for a little bit," I answered.
"What's wrong with your laptop?" she asked, worried. (I rarely used the family computer upstairs)
"Oh, nothing," I purposely said briefly. "I"m gonna get in the shower; you need anything out of there?"
"No," she said, obviously worried shitless.
I knew all I needed to know, and it was GOOD that I knew it, because no more than 4-5 days later, she tried to gaslight me about not having any feelings for this OM. At that point, I said "STOP IT -- we both know you're lying to me right now. I saw your text messages the other morning, so you can sell that to someone who's buying."
'Nads, there is nothing wrong with protecting yourself, and your family. In fact, I would claim that you have a moral imperative to do so.
Puppy
I just joined here recently myself. I have been dealing with this stuff in the wrong way for quite awhile. I am definitely no expert. I did alot of snooping on my wife when she started acting funny. I know I made it worse, but it was so hard. I have felt so much better the past couple months since I stopped snooping and just started working on myself. One of the best things I read was from someone else that said he acted as if he was living his own life with out his spouse. I just started accepting the fact that if she is going to cheat, she is going to cheat and I have no control over that. She will have to answer to God for that and her kids if they found out. I have felt so much better since I quit snooping. My relationship has improved a ton. I have been able to work on myself and my confidence has come back. I decided that I really want my marriage to work, but I want to become the man that my wife would want to be with. I am working hard at becoming the type of man I want to be. I have never been a snooping man in the past. I guess I have decided that if I can become the man I want to be in my marriage and she still leaves or cheats, it is her loss and someone else's gain. Eventually the truth always comes out. At least since I have been making these changes in myself, it has gotten her attention. Now she has something to really think about. Snooping was also feeding my negative thoughts of my wife and made me feel less confident about myself. I pray everyday for God to give me strength and to help me with the hurt. He is definitely helping me. Not sure if anything I said helps, but I wanted you to know that I am in the same boat. Still just rowing along!! LOL!!
Starsky,
Thats some good stuff! I thought I was being covert by waiting for the shower to start.
Joe,
I never snooped before either. It's her bizarre behavior that has me wondering. And I'd like to know what I am up against.
Another thing, I was able to check her email and there was one from her mom. It started with "I know you don't want to talk about the house, but..." Which has me thinking she and her mom are at odds on the whole thing. Thoughts?
Snooping was also feeding my negative thoughts of my wife and made me feel less confident about myself.
Also, this is the opposite for me. I keep asking myself (especially last night) "what is wrong with me?", "what did I do". But seeing the stuff on FB today made me feel MORE confident about myself.
Snooping was also feeding my negative thoughts of my wife and made me feel less confident about myself.
Also, this is the opposite for me. I keep asking myself (especially last night) "what is wrong with me?", "what did I do". But seeing the stuff on FB today made me feel MORE confident about myself.
I felt the same way. Once I found out my wife's behavior was VERY typical of someone having an affair, and then when my intel confirmed that she WAS having an affair, I knew I wasn't going crazy!
Just look up and learn about "gaslighting" -- it can have very serious consequences on the one that's being gaslighted.
I honestly don't know why anyone would NOT want to know the truth about something, so they can deal with it accordingly. If -- as Jack Nicholson famously said -- "you can't HANDLE the truth," then have a trusted third party handle it for you, and just keep you apprised of any immediate threats to you, your family or your finances.
Starsky
Leon,
You are in great hands here with Starsky. He is a badass. I had never read his post from his archives. That was pretty slick.
You can look for some apps on her phone. Snapchat is one. And Kik.
Yep, my W had Kik as well as some Role Playing Game that had a chat component.
It took me a while of thinking it was just an infatuation, until I started piecing circumstantial evidence together. This was especially difficult as she had left before any of this. After >30 things (searches for football tickets, found a hotel review on the 'net while she was 'visiting her mom,' searches for mens shoes, deleted facebook account, people seeing her in town with someone else.) I finally got to 95% certainty and broke my own rule and downloaded her backup on her phone. I looked for about 15 minutes and saw nothing in there. Nothing at all. Its because they were using the Kik app. Then one text message. Him asking for her to come over so they could ML and have his GF watch my kids.....She still denies that ever happened, but at that point I was out of evidence.
Anyway, moral of story is that I felt 1000x better (after a couple days) when it was someone else because like you it allowed me to fit all the puzzle pieces together, formulate a plan and prepare to talk to her about the 'truth' in our marriage for the first time in over a year. She initially seemed to reach out to reconciliation and then clamped down hard when I said I wouldn't be 'Plan B.' Now, 4 months later she's just getting out of that total withdraw from me.
YMMV, but it helped me keep focus that it was not 100% me that caused out M to breakdown, especially with me not knowing anything was wrong.
I am going to try to check for those apps this weekend. But again, I have to be very, VERY careful.
Okay, now that you see what the issue probably is for her checking out of the marriage, you're going to have to start to look at what the causes were. Think back to the time that your marriage was starting to be shaky and try to see what things your wife would tell you she was unhappy about. These are the things you're going to need to change. Sometimes it's more apparent what our issues were in our marriage, And then sometimes the issues aren't that apparent.
Much like you, my wife said same things, help around the house, kids, Etc. It seems like there were other things for my wife that she didn't tell me when she left that were the real issues. For me it was she felt like she wasn't my equal, my expectations were too high, I didn't give Her enough individuality. The tricky part is some of these are validate some are not, but in a WAS they all are valid. It makes you really need to think abou t how to change these traits.
There are definitely some things i did to cause her to check out. And i am working on those issues. Right now she could care less though.
You do understand that the issues you are supposed to be working on are for YOU and NOT HER, right?
Yes. And I feel better by doing them.
Last night was pretty uneventful. She called me at work and asked if she could make dinner for the family. Again, odd because she rarely cooks for everyone.
We ate dinner together. But afterwards she got her phone and retreated to the basement. She came up every now and then to get a drink. But stayed down there until after I was in bed.
A friend suggested that I dress up nice and treat myself to a movie tonight. So i plan on doing that.
Wise friend.
OK, this GAL thing is a stroke of genius!
Just left the house. Clean shaven, dressed nice, cologne, the works. She was sitting downstairs when I left. The look on her face was priceless. Yeah, I know, I am doing this for me. But it feels great!
Decided just to come into the office to get some work done instead of going to a movie. There's not much out that I am interested in anyway.
Personally, I've recently discovered the pleasure of going for a drink by myself, sitting at the bar. I discover new places, I experiment with drinks and food, and sometimes I meet new people. Afterwards, it feels like I've really GALed.
Personally, I've recently discovered the pleasure of going for a drink by myself, sitting at the bar. I discover new places, I experiment with drinks and food, and sometimes I meet new people. Afterwards, it feels like I've really GALed.
I thought about that. But I don't want to risk a DUI or come home with alcohol on my breath. Especially with a potential custody battle coming up.
Some other thoughts on some crazy stuff the W said recently:
During one of my rule breaking moments (right around BD#2) I asked the W if she would let me work on our issues. To which she said "you shouldn't have to 'work' on any issues with me. You should want to do them."
During our first MC session, when it was my turn to speak (mind you, I did not interrupt her when she spoke) I was saying something about how I felt that some of our problems is that we have different love languages. I said that mine was touch and hers is quality time. She then cut me off and said "See, you don't understand. I want it ALL!"
Does this make any sense?
Well, yesterday's high just came crashing down. She's no longer wearing her engagement or wedding rings.
Let's see if she wears them to work tonight.
I was able to check her purse and work bag this morning. No burner phone. But it is still not looking good.
I really have to detach. Which is hard because we see each other and talk often. She usually starts the conversation though.
The phone could just as easily be in her car.
In whose name is her car titled?
Some other thoughts on some crazy stuff the W said recently:
During one of my rule breaking moments (right around BD#2) I asked the W if she would let me work on our issues. To which she said "you shouldn't have to 'work' on any issues with me. You should want to do them."
During our first MC session, when it was my turn to speak (mind you, I did not interrupt her when she spoke) I was saying something about how I felt that some of our problems is that we have different love languages. I said that mine was touch and hers is quality time. She then cut me off and said "See, you don't understand. I want it ALL!"
Does this make any sense?
Yes, both very much SCRIPT. It's very typical of the wayward mindset, whereby they basically take a "Great -- so NOW you're changing!" stance, resent the h*ll out of your positive changes. It's also very likely that by the time she went to MC with you, she was already "done" or -- at a minimum -- so emotionally connected with an OM (or the fantasy of one) that she's basically physiologically BLOCKED to you.
Starsky
The phone could just as easily be in her car.
In whose name is her car titled?
I doubt it is in her car. We share both cars so if she kept it there the chances of me finding it are pretty good.
I am leaning more towards an app on her phone that allows texts or chat.
Yes, both very much SCRIPT. It's very typical of the wayward mindset, whereby they basically take a "Great -- so NOW you're changing!" stance, resent the h*ll out of your positive changes. It's also very likely that by the time she went to MC with you, she was already "done" or -- at a minimum -- so emotionally connected with an OM (or the fantasy of one) that she's basically physiologically BLOCKED to you.
Starsky
Right again Starsky. In the first MC session she said she was "pretty much done" to quote her.
The phone could just as easily be in her car.
In whose name is her car titled?
I doubt it is in her car. We share both cars so if she kept it there the chances of me finding it are pretty good.
I am leaning more towards an app on her phone that allows texts or chat.
Most likely.
Okay, now that you see what the issue probably is for her checking out of the marriage, you're going to have to start to look at what the causes were. Think back to the time that your marriage was starting to be shaky and try to see what things your wife would tell you she was unhappy about. These are the things you're going to need to change. Sometimes it's more apparent what our issues were in our marriage, And then sometimes the issues aren't that apparent.
Much like you, my wife said same things, help around the house, kids, Etc. It seems like there were other things for my wife that she didn't tell me when she left that were the real issues. For me it was she felt like she wasn't my equal, my expectations were too high, I didn't give Her enough individuality. The tricky part is some of these are validate some are not, but in a WAS they all are valid. It makes you really need to think abou t how to change these traits.
After a bit more reflection, I do think that she was missing out on quality time and affection. Especially since she started her new job. It is hard to make time when you only see each other for ~2 hours a day. And she works with mostly men, so she's spending 8+ hours a day with them. THAT is what I am up against. I did suggest that she quit the job, which she seemed open to. But I am not sure about that now.
Another thing: On my way to work this morning* I got a call from the W asking my opinion if she should keep S9 home from school today. He has a slight fever and has been coughing for the past day or so. Odd because usually she'd just make that decision herself and call just to inform me.
*I am still doing my morning routine of helping get the kids up and ready for school. Since W was awake I decided to go in to work early. W seems to appreciate it.
Another thing: On my way to work this morning* I got a call from the W asking my opinion if she should keep S9 home from school today. He has a slight fever and has been coughing for the past day or so. Odd because usually she'd just make that decision herself and call just to inform me.
Someone may be advising her to document the ways in which she is cooperating with you, being a good mother, etc. Or she may be doing it out of guilt over other behavior that's not so noble, hard to say.
Ah. Thanks Starsky.
Hard to get a read on her behavior at times. I have to stop trying to analyze everything she does (I need to detach). But it is hard.
Ah. Thanks Starsky.
Hard to get a read on her behavior at times. I have to stop trying to analyze everything she does
Yes, for several reasons. A), as you note, it makes it difficult to detach. But also, B) making sense of wayward behavior is oftentimes to try and make sense of the senseless. When people are caught up in affairs their behavior is often totally out of character for them, and wildly erratic -- even psychotic at times. Remember the otherwise-sane/intelligent female astronaut OW who drove across the country WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER so she wouldn't have to stop for bathroom breaks, as she drove to Florida to confront her husband's wife?
"I said that mine was touch and hers is quality time. She then cut me off and said "See, you don't understand. I want it ALL!"
Does this make any sense?"
Yes it does. You assumed that's what she she wants. Your'e mindreading and it seems controlling. You should have just let her say what her love languages are.
You two seem to be going to MC alot. What else do you discuss?
Right again Starsky. In the first MC session she said she was "pretty much done" to quote her.
Yep, this is what my W has said to me too. She actually sent me an email early on saying she wanted a D, but then (after I confronted her about OM) said she just wanted to be separated. Also said that she can't see herself going back to the relationship she had, and so on. Basically its tough to admit, but for them they are 'done' with us. I feel for my W, she had to feel that way in order to do what she was doing with the A. I don't know, it seems like there's two things here that I've had to deal with
1) Wayward spouses say whatever is on their mind at the time, they are not thinking about the M (just OM) and we are thinking about it always. So, when we ask a question, its usually thought out by us and their response is how they feel that minute
2) We as LBS are trying to look at what we can hold onto for hope that this is not permanent. That's not a bad thing, but can lead us to overanalyzing everything
As far as MC goes, I've heard if there's an A; MC is pretty much useless. After I confronted W about OM, we've been going; but its been pretty much just talking logistics. Every time something emotional has come up; she tries and cancels. Well, just two weeks ago; we actually had a conversation and next thing I know; I'm back ten steps thinking that the solution is just around the corner. It stinks, but its normal, I guess
Yes it does. You assumed that's what she she wants. Your'e mindreading and it seems controlling. You should have just let her say what her love languages are.
You are right. I've learned to shut up and let her talk.
You two seem to be going to MC alot. What else do you discuss?
No, we only went to MC twice. The first time was horrible. The MC didn't help at all. It seemed like she wasn't even listening to either of us and just kept asking scripted questions. However, I do fault myself in this. I was in a hurry for us to go to MC looking for a "quick fix" to our problems. But after reading these boards I learned that it was NOT the thing to even suggest at the time.
The second time we went, the W said she is going forward with the D. And the MC simply agreed and started searching for information about co-parenting. I kept my cool though.
What were her reasons for leaving that she brought up in C?
Also said that she can't see herself going back to the relationship she had, and so on. Basically its tough to admit, but for them they are 'done' with us.
My W said that as well.
I feel for my W, she had to feel that way in order to do what she was doing with the A. I don't know, it seems like there's two things here that I've had to deal with
1) Wayward spouses say whatever is on their mind at the time, they are not thinking about the M (just OM) and we are thinking about it always. So, when we ask a question, its usually thought out by us and their response is how they feel that minute
Yeah. And this gives me some hope, because her exact quote was "
right now I don't see myself going back". I hope to show her she won't be going back. But only time will tell.
2) We as LBS are trying to look at what we can hold onto for hope that this is not permanent. That's not a bad thing, but can lead us to overanalyzing everything
As far as MC goes, I've heard if there's an A; MC is pretty much useless. After I confronted W about OM, we've been going; but its been pretty much just talking logistics. Every time something emotional has come up; she tries and cancels. Well, just two weeks ago; we actually had a conversation and next thing I know; I'm back ten steps thinking that the solution is just around the corner. It stinks, but its normal, I guess
This is how I felt after both of my MC sessions. It seemed like we were making progress. We were talking and laughing together. We were also eating meals as a family, and even sat on the couch and watched a movie together. Then, MC and BOOM we barely spoke to each other for a few days.
So again I am learning that this takes time. My sister was almost a WAW with her husband and it took nearly 3 years for them to reconcile.
What were her reasons for leaving that she brought up in C?
She had a bunch of them. Some of it was true, some not (IMO, at least). I did NOT argue with her though. I let her speak. The ones I remember:
- I wasn't affectionate enough.
- She didn't feel valued in our W.
- Gift giving: I have to ask her about gifts. In other words, I have to ask "What do you want for X?" (birthdays, Christmas, etc). That I never buy her gifts from the heart.
- Pornography. (she has since said this wasn't a problem, but she did mention it then, but it may tie in with the affection issue)
Also, regarding the porn issue: Around BD2 I deleted the porn, reformatted hard drives, installed games, and pretty much turned my computer to the kids.
"Some of it was true, some not (IMO, at least)"
So what were the things that you didn't think were true. And for now, you have to understand it doesn't matter what YOU think is true. What matters is what bothers her. If she brought it up in C, then it's probably an issue to her. Stop ignoring that.
Mainly, it was the issue with gifting. Yes, I did sometimes ask for ideas. But I have often gotten her things on my own doing. And I have also surprised her with flowers, chocolate, etc. I have come to accept that if she mentioned it then it is an issue and that I am not a "gifts" person.
However, not to complain, but she isn't good at giving gifts either. She rarely gives gifts and if she does, it is usually something for the house. Keep in mind, I did NOT say this during MC. I was trying to agree with her before she cut me off.
"However, not to complain, but she isn't good at giving gifts either."
You are complaining. Complaining and score keeping. You do quite a bit of scorekeeping in your posts I notice.
Mr Bond.
I will try to keep that in check. But that is kinda what i thought this forum was for. Better to do it here than to the W. Like i said, I did not say this in MC.
On another note, I was able to check her phone tonight. No kik or anything else suspicious. Doesn't prove or disprove anything.
" will try to keep that in check. But that is kinda what i thought this forum was for."
It is. HOWEVER, you need to recognize that when you say something that is contradictory to what you want your W to believe, that means that your "changes" are fake and not lifelong. That the changes are just to get your spouse back and when they do return, you'll go right back to the way you were before.
If your changes were real about how you listen to her more now, etc., you wouldn't have even thought to make a scorekeeping comment.
MrBond,
I hope you understand that this has truly been a wake-up call for me. There are some things that I know I need to work on.
And thanks for keeping me in check.
He's good at that.
Listen to him though. MrBond knows what he is talking about.
Thanks, Squigs.
So far I have found lots of great advice here.
Got on the scale this morning. Ugh, I'm down 25 pounds since BD1. I guess the silver lining is that my stomach is flat.
More ups and downs.
Found more evidence of a EA/PA yesterday. I've been noticing that the W hasn't been smelling like perfume as she leaves for work recently. Last night her work bag was open and I peeked in and saw that she has been taking her perfume, toothpaste, toothbrush, and mouthwash to work with her. And she has been arriving home later and later. There was also a book on co-parenting in there.
I did have a pretty good session with my IC last night. Told her about this blog and we talked in great details about EAs, PAs and workplace romances. She really opened my eyes.
So what's your plan at this point, Leon? How can we best help you?
So what's your plan at this point, Leon? How can we best help you?
I want to keep my family together.
I don't really have a plan, but I have an appointment with a marriage coach set up for next week. I hope to get some guidance there as to how to move forward.
Starsky, your success story gives me hope. And I know I have a long way to go. I have to keep telling myself that it is a marathon, not a sprint.
Leon01: If you want a plan, go back to DR and really put down in writing the exercises. It's structured to give you a plan.
Mozza, I have the DB book, but not DR. I will add that to the list.
A close friend recommended that I keep a log of all of the things she has done that seemed "cold" towards the kids. He claims it could be useful in a custody battle. My IC was against it.
Over the past couple of weeks she has
1) Forgot to pick them up from school.
2) Forgot to feed them.
3) Closed herself in her room and left them unsupervised for ~8 hours. I'm sure they didn't mind, but they were up until around midnight and they were not fed during this time. I was out with a friend (GALing) and when I arrived home they were watching TV and hungry.
Keep in mind that this isn't something I want to do. I want us to be a family again. But friends keep telling me that I should take these steps in order to protect my kids.
You should keep a daily log of EVERYTHING, good and bad, including how she's spending the family's finances.
Went to my first boxing class tonight. Got hit in the face a few times, but it was a great workout. I think i am going to try to go once a week.
Attaboy!!
Went to my first boxing class tonight. Got hit in the face a few times, but it was a great workout. I think i am going to try to go once a week.
Go three times a week. You will get into great shape and the confidence will be outstanding.
Glad to hear of your progress!
More ups and downs.
Found more evidence of a EA/PA yesterday. I've been noticing that the W hasn't been smelling like perfume as she leaves for work recently. Last night her work bag was open and I peeked in and saw that she has been taking her perfume, toothpaste, toothbrush, and mouthwash to work with her. And she has been arriving home later and later. There was also a book on co-parenting in there.
I did have a pretty good session with my IC last night. Told her about this blog and we talked in great details about EAs, PAs and workplace romances. She really opened my eyes.
She's pulling more and more away, as she gets more comfortable in the other place she comes home later and later.
You are being so strong...
Oh and the W has been searching those two guys on FB again today.
Sounds like SHE needs to GAL!
Lol. Yep. To be honest, all of this is still puzzling.
Oh and S9 was home sick again today and wasn't fed until i got home from work/boxing class.
I know some of these posts sound like I am still score keeping, And I guess I am. But I am also very angry to be in this position. I know I have to work on that.
Anger is understandable, and even healthy. The key is not to be GOVERNED by it. Anger -- like emotions -- are part of who we are, just make sure you're not making major DECISIONS based on either one of them.
Starsky
Thanks, Starsky. I was on the edge of making a few bad decisions a few times, but reading this site has kept me in check.