Hi there! I don’t know how to link my previous post to this new one, but it was suggested I start a new thread.
Recap of my situation:
M: 30 H: 31
D: under a year old
Married for 3.5 years
After neglecting my H and failing to make him a priority… 12/15/14: H says “I want a divorce”
1/16/15: We attend intensive marriage program, but no change of heart
1/30/15: H tells me he does not want to attend post sessions to work on our marriage
He is still living at home but is working on getting a new place to live.
The day after my H told me flat out that he would not be attending the post sessions, I have to admit I was very sad…then suddenly I got MAD. I got so angry. I started to avoid him in the house, and couldn’t even look at him. He asked me what was wrong, and I said “nothing” then walked away. Then last night he got home and asked me how our daughter was while he was out. I gave a short answer and he angrily said, “Is there something you want to say to me?” I said no.
I know my behavior was not helpful but I just couldn’t help it. I am trying to let go of the anger today. It just feels like I am getting nowhere with my kindness. I have been pleasant and accommodating and patient, taking care of all his needs, making dinner, washing his clothes, trying to anticipate his needs…giving him space…and he hasn’t changed his behavior at all. In fact, he has been ruder than normal. On Thursday, I asked if he needed anything from the store, and he texted back No. I texted back “ok”. He answered back with a rant about how I don’t need to respond to his “No”, that his no is the end of the conversation. I mean…how am I supposed to react to that? With more kindness and affirmation? I seriously do not know how to proceed.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Mary,
Cadet posted this ^^^ to you early in your first thread. What does all this mean to you? Also, how are you applying what you read from the Divorce Remedy?
From your last post, you have a ton of expectations, which keeps you on the emotional roller coaster.
You are right. Your anger isn't helping. What has changed since you got here? How are you applying the advice you are getting here?
Since I started posting I have tried to “get a life” by not just mopping around the house. I go on walks, go run errands, take my daughter to my parents house…I have been trying to stay busy without doing anything that might seem like I am neglecting my H, since that is what got us here in the first place. I have also tried to use the affirmation tips, and not arguing with him but just listening. One thing that I really tried to do is empathize with him, and not be dismissive of his feelings. I have tried to act like the wife I should have been all along, while giving him space. But I don’t feel like I am making any progress. AT ALL. And I feel like a sitting duck. Because he hasn’t mentioned ANYTHING about what he is thinking, or what his plans are. So I am just waiting for him to tell me his move out date.
Oh and I set some goals for myself to improve me...go to mass twice a week, exercise twice a week, etc.
Mary,
LITB sure hit on the salient points, and I'd like to include a few more of my own observations.
You're actively trying to save a marriage that your H has stated several times he doesn't want to save. That means you respect his decision. YES, you can still work on your R with him. Remember when I said that your expectations were going to get you in trouble? What he reads from this is, "Here goes Mary, thinking she's going to control me and the outcome and I just won't listen to her... period." By doing this engaging, you're giving him the green light to go right out of the door.
You've GOT to focus on you and your kiddo and let him be.
He asked me what was wrong, and I said “nothing” then walked away.
Jeez, Mary... really? This was completely untrue. In fact, it's a damn lie. Why didn't you use your DB tactics and be authentic without all this ugly drama? You're showing him that he is right that you won't change.
I gave a short answer and he angrily said, “Is there something you want to say to me?” I said no.
Again, inauthentic and false.
I have been pleasant and accommodating and patient, taking care of all his needs, making dinner, washing his clothes, trying to anticipate his needs…giving him space…and he hasn’t changed his behavior at all.
Ummm, Mary, can you dissect this one a bit? Because I see more untruths here.
I mean…how am I supposed to react to that? With more kindness and affirmation? I seriously do not know how to proceed.
Well, I really am not someone to swing 2x4's, but I think this might be the only effective way to get you to see that your words and actions are polar opposites. You say you give him space, which is not the case as I read it. You say things that aren't true. Okay, so you withhold your feelings and use them against him in your conversations. You need to seriously create a plan and stick to it. As I see here, it's more of the same volatility from you.
What kind of stop gaps can you employ to just communicate differently? In fact, I'd put this one at the top of my goals list and leave out "save marriage" for now. Let's work on authentic communication without drama.
Ideas?
Betsey
My angry actions were a step back. I am aware. But that was ONE day. That wasn't a pattern of behavior. It was a day when I gave into my emotions. I have been giving him space by not asking him, EVEN ONCE, what is going on with our relationship. I haven't asked him when he is moving out, I don't check in with him, I don't follow him around the house. I keep my questions short and to the point. I stopped saying I love you, I never try to make physical contact with him.
The advice I got from the retreat people was, "Continue to do your part. Dialogue everyday and if he is not willing to reciprocate, at least present your letter to him every night.
You attend the Post sessions even if he doesn't and make sure he knows ahead of time that you are going. With you showing how important the program is to you, God can use that to poke at his heart."
Thoughts? Is this a total mistake?
I think if he has withdrawn from the program in the way he has, it isn't going to help presenting a letter to him every night.
It was good that he attended and it sounded like you both got something out of it. That's great. But he doesn't want to do this ongoing stuff - no problem - I think you should be glad of what you guys did both achieve and let go of the rest.
Why don't you carry on with the program yourself in the way you want to and just respect your H's wishes that he doesn't want to participate for now.
The advice I got from the retreat people was, "Continue to do your part. Dialogue everyday and if he is not willing to reciprocate, at least present your letter to him every night.
You attend the Post sessions even if he doesn't and make sure he knows ahead of time that you are going. With you showing how important the program is to you, God can use that to poke at his heart."
Thoughts? Is this a total mistake?
I have to say that I don't think it is a good idea. You place a significant amount of pressure on your H. He knows what you want. No need to keep reminding him.
Also, you are placing a lot of expectations on him. He went to the weekend with you. Now you expect him to attend every post session with you. When he told you no, you came away disappointed and hurt.
I suggest to keep dialoguing for yourself. If/When he chooses to join you, then would be a good time to share. Otherwise, let it be.
Also, keep a journal on your feelings and observations. Keeping a journal helped me tremendously.
You have to be patient. This isn't going to change as quickly as you hope.
This is what I believe your H is thinking...the "changes" you are making, are a ploy to make him change his mind. Why do I think that? Because your changes seem that way to me. Maybe I am wrong, just the feeling I get.
Your changes have to be sincere, and consistent over a long period of time. That's when they are believable.
You have to be patient. This isn't going to change as quickly as you hope.
This is what I believe your H is thinking...the "changes" you are making, are a ploy to make him change his mind. Why do I think that? Because your changes seem that way to me. Maybe I am wrong, just the feeling I get.
Your changes have to be sincere, and consistent over a long period of time. That's when they are believable.
My W and I are in a similar situation and let me tell you what she saw from her perspective.
Like you I felt like I was not pressuring her. I felt I was on even keel emotionally and that I was showing genuine change and was being consistent.
She told me she would look at me and see me swinging up and down emotionally. She did not know how I was going to act. She thought a lot of my actions were manipulative because they were not consistently changed for a long enough period of time.
Now here is the biggie. She felt tremendous pressure from me about working on the relationship. I was trying to change for her and the relationship and would ride along with her and her emotions as we both reacted to each other. When we were separated and spent more time apart we were doing very good. When we came closer together she felt more pressure from me and started to withdraw. I felt the withdraw and started to pursue and apply pressure that she was not ready for. This became an ugly dance and now she had filed D papers.
read this thread and see what you think
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574I understand as a LBS how we feel that we are not applying pressure or that we are creating expectations that are crushing us emotionally. There is some great advice above that you may want to read again. I wasn't patient enough in my situation so I beg you to try and slow down so you don't end up where I am.
Gogofo, thank you for your input. I am sorry your wife has filed. I know you must feel so defeated. I appreciate your words of warning. I will be praying for you and your sons.
I know I need to slow down. You and LITB are right, my changes are in an effort to change his mind, which is manipulative. I do want the changes for myself, but if I am honest my main motivation is to try to stop the divorce. I had a major breakdown on my drive home from work yesterday afternoon where I just really let it all out. I have felt so torn up about not knowing what my husband is feeling/thinking, and then I realized that I do know. I just don't want to come to terms with it. He wants to move out. And I have to make my peace with it. Like Cadet said, he is giving me the gift of time. I just have to have the patience and endurance to survive this time, and use it to make myself someone he would even want to be married to. I really liked that thread you shared gogofo. I just continue to struggle with how to make the sincere changes I should have made long ago, putting him first in my life, while stopping the chase. I guess it is about doing what I need to do for him, without having any expectations of how he will react? Doing things for him because it is the right thing to do, not because it will make him want to stay?
I just continue to struggle with how to make the sincere changes I should have made long ago, putting him first in my life, while stopping the chase. I guess it is about doing what I need to do for him, without having any expectations of how he will react? Doing things for him because it is the right thing to do, not because it will make him want to stay?
Credit to you for being honest with us, and not telling us what we want to hear.
These changes are not for him. These changes are for you. At the end of the day, no matter what happens in your sitch, you still have a life to live with or without your H.
That’s why it is important to GAL. It helps with detachment, and expectations. It helps get you to your happy place. Happy is attractive.
Were you happy before you got to this difficult place? Can you look back in your life and identify when you were happiest as an adult? Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own happiness.
Fix what is yours to fix. That is within your control.
What specific changes are you making for you?
I'm trying to live my life on purpose and stop being reactive. I set goals for what I want to do, and schedule those activities instead of just running around but not doing what I actually want to do. I also want to change some of my behaviors.
My goals are:
Daily mass twice a week
Exercise twice a week
One fun outing with my D a week (we have a play date tonight!)
See my family twice a week
Behavioral goals I set for myself:
No alcohol at home (watching those calories, even though I love wine!)
Dress nice for work (No more wet hair and jeans!)
No social media on my mobile phone (I didn't cancel my accounts but took the apps off my phone)
I am open to suggestions!
I would like to ask my H for a status update regarding his plans to move out. Before the retreat, I had agreed to separate, and he was working on getting a place to live but had run into some issues that was delaying his actual move out. He was very cold towards me in our day to day interactions for about 4 weeks after D day, and a few times he pressured me to discuss the specifics of our separation, which I mostly avoided. Then we had our retreat, and during the retreat, he did not mention anything about his plans to move out, in fact we didn’t even mention the word separation or divorce. After the retreat, he once briefly mentioned he was still having issues with his moving situation, but nothing else about the separation. That was three weeks ago, with no conversations about our separation. We just do the same song and dance, living in the same house, playing with our D, and just being civil. This week he has been rather friendly, and he instigates conversations. I don’t think he wants to reconcile, AT ALL, but would it be wrong of me to ask…exactly when does he plan to move out? This limbo feels very strange, sleeping in the same bed and all.
Should I just keep my mouth shut? Or can I respectfully ask him what his plans are?
I guess I am wondering, would this be seen as pressuring him to make a decision? That's not what I am trying to do, but I don't get the impression he is trying to make a decision. I think he is just waiting to get his stuff in order, and I would like a heads up as to when this is all going to "go down" if you will.
In a way, I also want to let him know that I don't think we are reconciling by "playing house". I want him to know that I have accepted that we will be separating. I just don't know how to communicate that without first getting him to verify 100% that is what we are doing.
I don't think it is a big deal to ask him. Do you think you can ask him without getting into an argument?
Yes I think so. Like I said, our interactions the past few days have been actually pleasant. So I feel like the time might be right. Should I do it in person or email?
I'd suggest to do it in person if you can. Just like any other conversations:
"Hey H, before we went to retrouvaille, you had mentioned that you had planned on living elsewhere. Curious to know if you are still considering it? Just trying to be prepared."
Hey Mary....how are things going?
Hi there! Things are going ok. I thought a lot about whether or not I wanted to bring up the conversation about his move out date. I decided against it. It just felt a bit selfish, I was really only doing it to calm my nerves, and I felt like by bringing it up I wasn’t doing a good job of detaching. So I have been busy GAL’ing, and had a great weekend with my D, family, and friends. It was really one of the best weekends I’ve had in a really long time.
So yesterday, my H came home, and was in a good mood, spending time with my D and me. And I asked him what he thought we should do about her upcoming B day. I was prepared for a very negative response, but he surprised me by going along with my idea to have a party for her, including his family and mine. He said it was going to be very awkward, and I said that I thought everyone would be mature enough to focus on our D for the day.
Then later that night, he gave me a brief update about how he is still having issues with his new living arrangement. He didn’t give me specifics. But I feel like that was his way of telling me he is still pursing it.
And I am okay with that. At this point, I have had plenty of time to get used to the idea.
I have told my three best childhood friends, all who live in different cities and don’t interact with us or our social circle, about our situation. Well today, they sent flowers to my house. He saw them, and saw who they were from, and he sent me a text, letting me know, and said “so I guess you told them.” I said yes, I told them three weeks ago. He then asked if I had told my best friend who does live in our city and knows all our friends. I said No, which is the truth. He didn’t respond.
I don’t know if he is upset, but honestly, he told me he was going to talk to his friend about our situation, so I don’t feel bad for doing the same. I was getting to be in a dark place and having my closest friends supporting me has been very helpful.
Sounds like a good thing that you put off the conversation about him moving.
Honestly, you sound much better than you did just a couple of weeks ago. You are doing well with only sharing your situation with your 3 friends.
Keep on keeping on.
Thank you LITB! I really do appreciate you checking in with me. So nice to have someone who is piecing give their input
Happy to try to help and encourage you.
Well today my family told me that they don’t feel comfortable doing a birthday party with my H and his family. I am very disappointed. I hate that my D's life events that were supposed to be so wonderful…her first Xmas, her first bday…are being completely over shadowed by our R drama. I don’t know what to tell my H. I don’t want to push him away by telling him my family doesn’t feel comfortable around him.
I know I just decided against asking him about his move out date...but should I use this birthday party to figure out what in the world he is planning/thinking about "us"? I don't think he wants to stay, but he doesn't seem desperate to leave? My pleading and such has stopped, and I haven't asked him anything about us since at the retreat. No I love yous. I am trying to be patient with this process, but at some point I wonder if I am avoiding....
Well we had the conversation. He told me that he wants to separate and that the only reason we've been getting along at home is because he hasn't been interacting with me. He wasn't mean in the way he said it, just very matter of fact. So there we have it I guess. It was what I was expecting but it still hurt to hear it. He had met with a friend about a month ago to talk about our situation but he never told me what came of it. Well today he told me his friend recommended to do whatever he had to do to make him (my H) happy. I am so disappointed he has yet to get any advice to stay and work on our marriage. What a crappy world we live in. Anyways, he did tell me he wants some space to think, and honestly it can't come soon enough. We both need space.
Marylov, I'm so sorry to hear that - nothing useful to say, but sending hugs to you
(((Marylov)))
I've spoken to a few people (reconciled) who were really glad (in the end) that they S as it needed to happen. Maybe that's the case for you guys too. Take care x
The way you handled it is a 180 for you. Sounds like you handled it from a calm place. I'm sure you have found that it isn't as emotionally taxing when you don't get worked up.
Like Toots said, sometimes separation is a good thing. Continue to utilize your time wisely. Continue GAL, and addressing issues. That's a never ending process.
Well I was calm during our conversation but I am sadly still pretty emotional about it. I feel like I am grieving. i just had to leave my office because I can't stop thinking about how our potential divorce is going to affect our daughters life and I started tearing up at my desk. Luckily no one was around but it is still not good to be crying in your office.
Well, I confronted my H to ask if he was having an affair after he didn’t come home on Saturday. He admitted he has been spending time with other women, but denied an outright EA and said nothing physical has happened. I told him he needs to move out ASAP, because his living at home in this limbo stage is very unhealthy for all of us. He agreed. I didn’t give him an deadline, and was very calm about it, and he said he understood. We talked a bit about the logistics of our separation. I was very clear that I didn’t want to see other people. He said he couldn’t promise that he wouldn’t get physical with someone else while we were separated, because he is very lonely. I told him my expectations, and that he needed to at least have the decency to tell me if something does happen. Am I an idiot? How much disrespect can I take?
We talked a bit about the logistics of our separation. I was very clear that I didn’t want to see other people. He said he couldn’t promise that he wouldn’t get physical with someone else while we were separated
Did you believe he was going to separate from you to work on the M?
In the VP of the WAS, the LBS make themselves look a little ........well, foolish, when proclaiming your intentions and
meaning you expect the same from
him.
He gave you as honest an answer as you've probably had so far. He has no intentions of living like a monk. If you want to live like one, that's no skin off his back. It is not going to influence him to do the same.
I am afraid your attempts at trying to be the W he has always wanted came too late in the stitch. It hasn't worked out for your benefit. Maybe you should consider a different approach.
I wasn't expecting him to say he wanted to proactively work on our marriage, but how about not proactively working to make things worse? If he wants to see other people, then in my mind we might as well skip this separation. I don't think it is too much to ask for him to keep it in his pants until we officially say our marriage is dead. That is just cowardly and I am sorry, if we are still married, that is cheating!
" If he wants to see other people, then in my mind we might as well skip this separation."
That's your decision if it's a boundary and a deal breaker for you. Right now he was honest with you and gave you an answer that you didn't want to hear. Some WAS's just want to see if what they have is really what they want.
He told me he is going to see a doctor for his depression. I told him I was very proud of him. He told me how alone he feels and how he has nothing. I told him that me and his daughter are his family and that we will always be there for him. He said he tried to get me to listen for a year and I didn't care about him. I fought the urge to say that wasn't true, that I did care, and instead validated my heart out. I told him I understood how alone he felt, and that I wanted him to find some peace and be able to breathe. He walked out of the room and then later texted me that he wanted me to know that there were several special memories he had with me that could never be replaced. It was a nice thing to say but it felt like a goodbye. I told him thank you for telling me that, and that I wanted to give him the time and space he needed. I think this is where I have changed because before I would have said, "why can't you focus on the good memories then!?" I really hope he can get some medication that will help him.
I read the section about dealing with a depressed spouse last night. It sounded all too familiar. I had made my peace with deciding to be patient, and then my H came home so drunk he could barely walk. I left him alone, and didn't say anything about how drunk he was. The next morning he acted like nothing had happened. I am not sure if doing the LRT with a depressed spouse would be a mistake?
Does anyone have any advice on how to treat a depressed spouse? My H asked for a D three months ago, stating that he was miserable. He finally admitted he is depressed and now I don't know what to do. His complaint was that I wasn't attentive, so I became attentive. That didn't work. So I was ready to do something different and do the LRT. But is seems wrong to do the LRT right after he told me he is going to seek help for his depression. Interestingly, he told he is going to seek help the same day I told him that he needed to move out, so maybe my tough love was what forced him into action?
You're mindreading. You don't know why he told you what he did. Best thing for you to do would be to support him but don't enable him. What will be key is if he actually does something on his own to help him get out of depression.
Marylov. Have you read the depressed spouse chapter towards the end of DR? That has some useful pointers. I agree with Mr Bond - it's important not to try and be Mrs Fixit (another Mrs Fixit here) and let him make some progress himself in terms of treatment and support.
Yes I read that chapter! It was helpful. I understand I can't fix him. Honestly I wouldn't even know how. I just want to encourage him to get some help. So do you think it would be wise to do the LRT?
Why would you do the LRT? Did he file? Did he threaten you with legal action?
LRT means that you tell him that you're okay with the D and then go dark.
Doesn't sound like you need to do that in your sitch.
In the book it says to do it if you are physically separated. We are soon to be.
Also, I feel like going dark would be a 180 from being attentive, which hasn't been working. I think being kind is making me seem weak. He has been pushing my buttons, staying out all night, getting drunk. My kindness seems to be having no affect. Like I said, it was only after I had a come to Jesus talk with him about moving forward with our separation (he has been living at home despite wanting to move out) that he sent me the first nice text he has in a long time & decided to go see someone about his depression. So I'm not trying to read his mind but I am trying to monitor what is working. It seems like maybe my conversation where I acted like I was okay with the separation and actually eager to get it started helped him realize what is happening. Or maybe it didn't because last night he got plastered and ignored a text I sent him. What a mess
I Reread the section tonight and I think I really need to focus on two things, 1) not taking things personally and 2) not letting other people pressure me. I am starting to hear a lot of "why are you putting up with this" and it is making me question my resolve, and I shouldn't let it. I DO want this marriage to work, and even though my H is being very hurtful, I still think he is worth fighting for
Yeah, so here's the thing about depressed spouses. They're unpredictable. You can't fix it. All you can do is be supportive and let him go down the path he needs to go down.
My H is in a rather severe depression. It's horrific. All I can do is validate and support, but I'm trying to stay the hell out of his way because the changes he needs to make - he has to figure them out himself. He also has to do the work.
Take care of yourself. That's all you can do. See a therapist for yourself if you need help coping with his depression or your situation.
Thanks. I see you have been separated for awhile. Are you making any progress? My fear is that this will just drag on forever. I told him he needed to move out, and he just told me he is moving out his weekend. So we are just getting started.
You seem to be confusing alot of things.
"He has been pushing my buttons, staying out all night, getting drunk."
How is him going out all night and getting drunk pushing YOUR buttons? He's not doing it to hurt you. He's doing it to deal with something. Your getting irritated is just your frustration of not being able to control him.
"My kindness seems to be having no affect."
You don't know that. You EXPECT that if you're kind to him, he should react a certain way. You don't know for sure how he's going to react. Again, that's more of your control.
It is interesting that you say that. We just got into a big ugly fight. A bad one. He has a very bad temper and I got scared he was going to break something. One of the things that came up was he said he hasn't been rude to me and I brought up the going out and such. He said that it was to drown his sorrow not to hurt me. So you are right on there. However the ugliness of this fight, made me really question if I want to stay in this marriage. The only thing that I am holding on to is that he is in a very bad place right now, and is acting out of pain. But I don't know how much longer I can make excuses for him.
My husband is also depressed though he never admits to it. He will not get help at this time.
He said, "I am sad all the time"....That breaks my heart. But I am learning that I can't help him. He has to do this himself. I hope that he will do this with me but that I cannot control him.
We can only control ourselves, right? I try to focus on the good time we had and picture us being happy in the future.
One of the things that came up was he said he hasn't been rude to me and I brought up the going out and such. He said that it was to drown his sorrow not to hurt me.
Mary, I can relate to some of your sitch. My husband sunk into a depression a few months before our son's 2nd birthday. He pulled away and it felt like he became a completely different person. He went out drinking all the time and, although I didn't know it at first, started an affair with a coworker. He was essentially in a fog and nothing I could do or so was going to bring him out of it. He had to do that on his own.
You cannot control him or his actions, only yours. IMO, you need to stop engaging him in conversations about R and even his behavior right now. I know how hard that is. It will save your sanity in the end though. Plus it avoids saying things in the heat of the moment that you or he might regret later. GAL and do things that make you happy outside of him. You don't need to intentionally exclude him from everything, just don't wait around for him either. Say with your actions "I'm going to be happy living my life. You are free to join if you want, and if you don't, that's okay too."
If he starts a conversation, be friendly and validate what he is saying. Remember validation doesn't mean you agree with what he's saying, it just means you hear him and you are trying to understand his viewpoint. In my person sitch I was amazed and how much that reattracted my H. I stopped trying to fix him and his problems and instead tried to say "I'm here for you".
I know we all want to fix things in an instant. Unfortunately that is rarely how this works. As Cadet always says, you've been given the gift of time. Use it wisely and work on making yourself the best you can be. That's literally the only thing you can control.
I am trying to focus on the good as well. What I saw last night was a person who was very scared and sad. He had also been drinking which isn't an excuse but it is always a factor in our big fights.
Thanks Heart14. I appreciate your advice. He is moving out today and tomorrow. Our fight yesterday really made it clear that we need time away from each other, things are getting worse every day he is in the house
I'm sorry, Mary! I hope the S will give you both some peace and time for healing.
Hi Mary, when drugs/alcohol are involved, it is a whole other world completely. My H used to do cocaine and in the midst of it, it was hell for me. He went to rehab for 6 or 9 weeks a few times but we never really separated. It was insane and I know I lost friends and pieces of me bc of it.
I think you are brave to move ahead with your separation.
Thank you! I don't feel very brave, I am taking this pretty hard. Yesterday was one of the hardest days. My D and I left Friday evening to go stay with my parents. He was packing when we left, and it was a very emotional goodbye for both of us. I am really praying that these next few days pass quickly, and that I can start to feel at peace with our new normal. And I am going to really try to keep in mind that my actions should say, "I'm going to be happy living my life. You are free to join if you want, and if you don't, that's okay too."
I feel your pain. I don't even know if or when the S happens with me, if I 'd be able to stand it. My life is so intertwined with him. I don't even know if any of us know who we are really.But I am trying to get this in my little head, " I am the only one who can make me happy".
So, Mary You are the only one who can make yourself happy
Well today was a good day. Even though I have had moments where I feel very overwhelmed by single motherhood, I am (for now) trying to act as if my husband is on a business trip. That is, enjoy time I hardly ever get to myself, and enjoy the freedom to do whatever makes me happy. And not focus so much on what he is or isn't doing while he's away from me. I have to say, this is easier to do because of my amazing family support system. The silver lining in this whole scenario is that it has made my close relationship with my family even stronger
Have you considered talking with a DB coach?
Your M can be saved. However, it will take major work on your part, and no expectations on his part. If you can't do that, then you need to accept it. I am saying this based on why you didn't think it was asking too much of him when talking about the dating issue after S.
If he wants to leave the M, and is depressed, too..........then having expectations from him would set yourself up for big disappointment. Sorry for being so harsh, I am trying to tell you from my own personal experience of being the depressed WAS. He doesn't have the energy or desire to work on a relationship. If you press him, he'll bail. Now if he has good working medication, plus time, it could help him with the depression. I don't know how well it may work on his desire for the MR.
Knowing this, what will you decide?
Mary, I posted this in response to you on my thread. I thought I'd copy it here to make sure you saw it:
No apologies necessary. Everyone walks their own path, but so many paths here are amazingly similar.
Do not give up hope if that's what your heart desires! That is not foolish. But follow the advice uRworthy once gave me:
You can have hope. Nothing wrong with that. You can have it. You just dont want to live in it, ya know?
That phrase really resonated with me. I hope it helps you.
Also, don't follow my lead with the chasing, begging and pleading...I was a habitual pursuer! I don't know how many it helped or hurt my sitch, but it definitely harmed me. It just held me back somewhat. Of course, I would have needed several months to process this loss even if I had followed the DB script to a t. But that didn't help. Don't be discouraged by failures, though. You're not going to blow your chances for reconciliation with a few DB slip-ups
I'm so sorry that our first holiday season as a mother was like that. There is not much I can promise you with your sitch. But here is one thing I feel confident saying, if you can stick with the ideas here: Your 2015 holiday season will be much better, as far as your sitch and your emotions regarding it.
How have your last 24 hours been?
Sandi, I understand that he doesn't have the energy to work on our relationship. I sent him a set of items regarding a controlled separation that I found online, and one of the items was in regards to doing work on our relationship. His response was that doing any "homework" was the last thing he needed. My response was to say that I agreed, that we needed time to just breathe. I am willing to do the work, and I am working really hard to not put any pressure on him. It is totally against my nature and instincts though. I want so badly to try to reason with him as to why he can't just quit on our family. But I know that will do no good. My strategy right now is to back off, not contact him unless necessary. But I want to be pleasant and friendly when we do communicate. I just don't know if he will follow through with his "announcment" about going to see a doctor. I Kind of doubt it.
Card, the last 24 hours have been a roller coaster ride. I cried myself to sleep last night, but tonight I am quite calm and almost content in bed watching my shows. I think I am struggling right now with the fact that I really miss him as my friend. I still love him so much, and I would love to just go to dinner with him. I am hoping that after another week i can start to work on starting to rebuild at least our friendship. I keep telling myself that if I focus on reconnecting instead of reconciling, things will be easier.
Didn't realize you had this thread already, so I'll post my response to your "post retreat" thread here:
Soak up those moments when you are content. Don't chase them or try to force them to happen, but try to sink into them when they do come, savor them. You need rest, especially with a D1 by yourself. Anytime you're stressing about your sitch, you are doing the opposite of resting. I lost 15-20 pounds (starting from a healthy weight) in 2 weeks last summer. Yes, I was eating less, but I was also burning at least an extra 1,000 calories a day due to anxiety. Get as much sleep as you can (try to nap), and when you find yourself in one of those moments of calm, try to dodge any thoughts that will take you out of it.
MrBond, I'm confused about your comments about LRT earlier in this thread? Going from what DR says, as Marylov mentioned, a physical separation requires LRT. And he exhibits every other sign (not wanting to work on the R at all, etc.). Any additional thoughts?
Mary, from your other thread:
I think I am struggling right now with the fact that I really miss him as my friend. I still love him so much, and I would love to just go to dinner with him. I am hoping that after another week i can start to work on starting to rebuild at least our friendship. I keep telling myself that if I focus on reconnecting instead of reconciling, things will be easier.
Be careful trying to rebuild anything at this point, even friendship. To him, it may come off as pressuring, and could push him even further away. It also sets you up for extra, unnecessary disappointment. You know your sitch better than anyone though. Search your heart - do you really think he might want to work on your friendship right now? I know that you so badly want to connect with him, to laugh with him, talk with him. Try as best you can to make decisions from deep thought, though, not your desires, however desperate they are.
Here's to a good Thursday for you!
Hi Mary,
You have been getting some good advice. A lot of your focus remains on your H. Specifically identifying his issues (his drinking, anger and depression). I am sure it has played a role in your sitch.
Here's the thing. It is always easier to find faults in others. I am challenging you to look within, to identify and address the areas where you contributed to the demise of your M/R. I gather from reading this thread, that control might be one of those areas? Also, please don't tell him he needs help. That will make him defensive, and push him away.
I realize that you and your H aren't working on your M, so some of them you are unable to correct at this time. You can validate, as has been suggested.
Another challenge for you, is to envision what Mary's happy world looks like, independent of your H. You have to make that place your destination. Why? Because your happiness is your responsibility, and happy people are attractive(not chemically happy either). How is your GAL going?
Well since we have been apart my H has been reaching out to me quite a bit. I have been doing my best to let him set the pace for our communication. I let him know today for the first time that we missed him, after he started to tear up at the end of a FaceTime converation with our daughter. He said he missed us too and that this was tough. Which doesn't mean anything, in terms of "us", but it felt like a real moment between us.
Thanks guys. I have been trying to avoid pressuring him. Since he moved out, I haven't asked at all about "us", or what he's thinking. It's only been a week but already I feel like this time apart is doing me good. Of course I miss him terribly, but missing him is easier than being on eggshells around him all the time. He face timed with our D yesterday and got emotional as he was saying bye. He texted me thank you and I told him that this time is what our family needs but that we miss him. He said he missed us too and that this was tough. I simply said that I agreed.
I hope that by giving him space and just being positive during our interactions, he will be be open to a friendship. I dont expect it to happen overnight of course.
Control is definitely something I struggle with. I'm not very good at letting things go unresolved, which is why I am having a hard time detaching. Honestly it is hard for me to picture my happy place without him, because no matter what, he will be in my future because of our D. I guess the closest thing to happy would be us at least being amicable co parents. And me being successful at my job.
I woke up this morning to a long text from H. He said he is miserable and hates how much our situation is going to hurt our daughter. He said it is killing him.
I didn't know how to respond. I decided to just be honest. I told him I knew it seemed hopeless. That he seemed to be looking at two bad options, stay miserable with me or split up and be miserable bc of the guilt of leaving our D. I told him that I hope our time apart would let us see a third option where we work on marriage and give our d the happy home she deserves.
He didn't respond. Maybe I blew it, but I felt like he was being real with me and letting me know his guilt. It didn't seem like the time to "play it cool". And I didn't want to reassure him that she would be fine. Bc I don't agree with that. I know she will be ok, but I believe the best thing for her would be for us to work things out. So I'm not going to lie and say everything is going to be ok, just to make him feel less guilty
You didn't blow it, BUT you could have used this opportunity to validate his feelings.
"H, I can understand why you would feel that way. Undoubtedly our situation is difficult."
That's it. Many times, less is more. It might have encouraged him to continue communicating with you. VALIDATE! VALIDATE! AND VALIDATE SOME MORE!!
Personally, if I were on the receiving end of your message, it would come across as adding salt to the wound. Instead of validating, it comes across as dismissing his feelings, and imposing yours.
Do you see that?
These opportunities are going to present themselves again. Hopefully you take a different approach. Probably a good idea to post here for some input, before responding.
Should I reach out to him and say I hope he is feeling better today?
I think just let him be for now.
How are things going for you? GAL? 180s?
Things that you are working on, and in the middle of changing?
How can we help you, aside from your interactions with your H?
Mary,
One thing that I want to touch on when it comes to interactions with your H. If you don't already, keep in mind before you respond to anything, "Will this get me closer to my goal, or further away?"
Another thing to consider. Make the most of every single opportunity. Demonstrate that you are evolving into a new, and improved person.
I like to use a marble analogy. Let's say you have a jar filled with marbles that represent every single opportunity and interaction with your H. After each interaction, you take one out, and place it into one of two jars. One that represents, "Made the most of" and another that represents, "Wasted Opportunity". Obviously you want to maximize every opportunity, before no marbles remain.
Only time will tell the outcome of your sitch, as there are no guarantees in life. For me, I took comfort in knowing that I was going to give my best effort.
That is a great analogy. I can see how I could have handled the situation better. I think I need to work on recognizing the difference between validating his feelings, and agreeing with his actions. I can be supportive in terms of understanding that this is difficult without supporting a divorce. Tricky though.
I have signed up for some fun exercise classes, and I am going to see a play with my mom tomorrow. I also REALLY need to focus on my work. I have really let it slide and the last thing I need is to jeopardize my career.
You are right, it is difficult, but not complicated. That is why it is so important to detach and have no expectations. It helps to keep your emotions in check.
Glad to see that you are busy GAL. It will play a significant role in your detachment.
Well my H has given me several more chances to validate. He is constantly telling me how much he misses our D. And yet he doesn't ask to make plans to see her. He is staying about 30 min away from our house. So I don't really know what is stopping him. But I don't ask. Or accuse. So I just try to validate. I just acknowledge how difficult this time is, and that I'm sorry he is hurting. I am not going to mention again my hopes that we will work on our marriage. He knows that's what I want. I have to keep reminding myself of that. There is no need for me to say it, it will only come across as pressuring him. Last night he texted me to just check in. I tried to be positive but brief. I am trying really hard to give him space and let him initiate our conversations.
In other news, I went out with my mother last night and had such a great time watching a play. Laughed more than I have in a long time and it felt great!
Going to see my H tomorrow for the first time since he moved out. *Deep breath* My goal is to be positive and pleasant and not get into any conversations about "us".
Went well, we actually hung out a bit after our D went to sleep. We even enjoyed each other's company. I was very calm, but he got pretty emotional at the end. Told me how he is really struggling and hurting. I tried to be as supportive as I could. I really do hate seeing him hurting, and I wish that this time apart was giving him even a little peace. But it seems to be making him even worse. I guess I might be detaching better than I thought, because when he left, I didn't really feel sad. I am okay now being alone, and have gotten used to my new normal. It is not what I want. But it is where I am at.
Hi Marylov
It sounds like you're doing pretty well, and handled the meeting with your H just fine. Sorry to hear that he isn't finding peace apart as he may have hoped. That may give him some pause for thought, particularly if he sees you are doing well. And from your description, you do sound in quite a healthy place all things considered.
Hang on in there...
Thanks! I don't know if I am in a healthy place of detachment or if I am in an unhealthy place of denial. I know what is happening, but I do think sometimes I prefer to forget about what is going on. I can feel myself pretending that it isn't. Especially since we have chosen to keep it fairly confidential, only telling our immediate family and a few friends. I guess there isn't much else for me to do. I can say I am prepared to accept us divorcing until I am blue in the face, but there is no way I will actually be able to fully accept it until after it is DONE. Until those papers are signed, I don't think I'll be able to fully let go. But I am as far down that road as I can be, given our situation (he hasn't filed, he seems to be lost/confused).
I don't know if it's because I'm so busy at work or because im getting sick but I am feeling really emotional today. It's so hard to not have the person who used to be your best friend to talk to.
I don't know if it's because I'm so busy at work or because im getting sick but I am feeling really emotional today. It's so hard to not have the person who used to be your best friend to talk to.
It is, isn't it? The things I miss most sometimes are the little things. To have someone to talk to about who I saw at the grocery, what my mom said on the phone, what happened at work, what the kids told me, what I heard on NPR, about the new novel I'm halfway through, what I tried at the new restaurant. And I wonder why H doesn't miss those things, and then realize he has the OW.
I don't know if it's because I'm so busy at work or because im getting sick but I am feeling really emotional today. It's so hard to not have the person who used to be your best friend to talk to.
Hi Mary,
The emotions will cycle as your sitch is relatively new. It is good to process all of the emotions, even though it suks.
You still keeping busy GAL? How's your baby girl doing?
im doing good with staying busy...would actually really like a day to just relax!! Time has been going by fast, I think I've mentioned that my husband has always traveled for work so I think I've mostly been on autopilot, pretending he's just out of town....
Our little one is turning one soon! I think I am a bit emotional about that as well. It's so hard to remember that this time last year I felt like my life couldn't get any better. I was going to have a baby with the man I loved and we were both so happy and excited. And now he has left us. It just is so hard to believe sometimes. I have been making a photo book for my daughter of her first year and it is so hard to do because it is all pictures of us as a family.
Our little one is turning one soon! I think I am a bit emotional about that as well. It's so hard to remember that this time last year I felt like my life couldn't get any better. I was going to have a baby with the man I loved and we were both so happy and excited. And now he has left us. It just is so hard to believe sometimes. I have been making a photo book for my daughter of her first year and it is so hard to do because it is all pictures of us as a family.
No doubt, it is difficult to think about the affects for our children from these situations. Keep being the best mom you can be. She is still very young, so hopefully your H will come around soon.
Glad that you keep yourself busy. At some point in time, you will be able to look back with gratefulness that you stayed busy. Of course get some R&R when you can.
Well. It's been awhile since I posted an update. Not much has changed. I have good days where I am pretty upbeat and don't spend too much time feeling sad. And other days I am very emotional and feel overwhelmed. I think it's to be expected.
I would like some input...I'm open to any suggestions of how to connect more with my spouse when we do interact. I try to validate evey chance I get. I have stopped with the I love you's. I never tell him I'm sad or lonely. I feel like we are just civil. Pleasant, but not warm. Our conversations are mostly logistical and brief convos about our D. What can I do to open the door for more? I'm not looking to jump back to being a couple, but even friends would be nice