RPP: Best Year Ever (15) - DivorceBusting.com

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Bdub, my last reply to you was composed as I was rushing out the door to pick up D12. I'm sorry it seems so clipped, it wasn't about you at all. It was me in a hurry. Sorry!

Originally Posted By: Ahoy

As long as you're okay with being just friends with your H and have no expectations of anything more ever with him, then it's probably fine to continue attending those kinds of events. If you're trying to DB, though, in hopes of drawing him back to you (and not letting him eat cake), then more distance and NC is what's recommended.

Thanks to everyone for the words of support.

Ahoy, you have hit on the center of the issue here. Right now, I'd rather have H as a friend than a H. He's a good friend, he was a pretty bad H. I think there's something better for me out there. But I could use a friend like him. I know that's not DB-ing, and that's the dilemma. That's what I'm supposed to be doing, right, and the advice I'm getting is trying to nudge me towards being a better DB-er. I understand all that. I just think perhaps I'm done and don't want to admit it to all the good people who are actually fighting here.

Originally Posted By: labug

You're standing at the threshold of a whole new life. Scary? Yes, but what opportunity awaits.

Thanks for your nice comment on my thread.

Labug, nice to hear from you! I hope things are going well for you.

Yes, a whole new life is scary, especially since I didn't want any of it. I wanted my M, I wanted my job, I certainly didn't want to stir up any health issues. But thank goodness the health and the job came after a few months of DB-ing, because I was able to step away from it somewhat and envision a new future. It has been lifesaving.

As distressing as having to look for a new job is, I'm not really all that unhappy to be leaving my old one. It's unfortunate that it rips away my church home with it, at least for now, but maybe I'm needed somewhere else.

I'm still holding on to the idea it's going to be my best year ever.

Bdub, my last reply to you was composed as I was rushing out the door to pick up D12. I'm sorry it seems so clipped, it wasn't about you at all. It was me in a hurry. Sorry!

I push you pretty hard sometimes, I expect to be pushed back.

I agree with what Ahoy said. The contact is not good for DBing. However, the core of DB principle states basically to do what works. You know what works, and you are doing a great job holding things together and balancing everything that life throws your way!

RPP ,
When I stopped DBing I figured people here would just sort of leave and stop giving the advise and support. Actually, the exact opposite happened. Several here, especially you, have ratcheted up the support and advise when called upon. There is no such thing as a bad DBer. Every sitch is different and the DB "script" has to be adjusted for each sitch. I no longer want to save my M. I am using the DB principles to make me a better person and to prepare myself for my next R.
As long as you continue to use words such as "perhaps" and I think" and "maybe" in reference to your desire to be done, I think your support group here will continue to talk DBing to you.
Personally I would not want to be seen as trying to talk you out of saving your M or R with your H.

Bravo, bdub.

I consider a successful DBer someone who learns techniques to change communication dynamics and truly absorbs them in all facets of life. Saving a marriage requires the spouse to be open to those changes. You can only take care of your side of the street. So that's why I don't consider reconciliation as the benchmark of success here on this board.

Sure, the goal is to save the marriage. But it shouldn't be at the expense of everyone else in the family.

I consider DBing a way of life. I even had some old friends here remind me to DB my almost D21 when we were having horrible communications. Why didn't I think of that? LOL. My surviving friend said, "Bets, you know how to DB well, so why not step back and do more of what works and less of what doesn't with her?" I tell ya, it was the divine bonk on the head that I needed. And my funny D knew it... "Mom, I know you're going back to that board, and I'm not insulted. Thanks!"

I also own my own company and wear lots of hats. Much of it is sales. Do you know how much more effective I am at a difficult profession by using those techniques? It's respectful. People want to do business with people with integrity, clear communications and honesty. Happy dance! I love earning more money! So in essence, these changes mean $$$.

My former boss was really great with me when I made mistakes, especially if they were big or cost the company money. He said, "If you don't learn from them, it will cost me more. So consider this a school where you better get a magna cum laude, or it's your own damn fault." Those words have stuck with me for decades.

rpp, back to your priest before I head back to tasks here. I left my church in the early 90s and became Episcopal. My D20 was baptized in that church. (She did a profession of faith in our Catholic church when she was 8.) They were 3 good years, and unfortunately, the congregation wasn't happy with Fr. Art (don't know the drama behind it), and he was ousted. The new person I didn't like much at all. Then D17 popped out, my mom flew out to help me, and one day I just decided to go back to the Catholic church with her. I attended re-membering classes, had 1-on-1 counseling with an open minded priest and jumped back in the pool I grew up in. I think it made me a better person all through. I tell my current pastor, "I have no problems with my Christianity. It's being Catholic that I have struggles with - and mostly only when they start injecting politics into my faith." He always commiserates and soberly smiles as he gives me a hug. I'm NOT a black and white person. I think I'd struggle in pretty much any church. So I work my own program and continue to pray that I grow in my faith.

Good luck! Just remember there will always be tests of faith on this road we're on. It's up to us to make decisions that benefit us, which is where free will comes in.

BTW, I won't abandon talking to you even if you don't use words like perhaps or I think or maybe. Free will comes into play here, and you DO have choices. I trust that you know your heart better than any of us here.

Hugs to everyone-
Betsey

Originally Posted By: bdub

RPP ,

As long as you continue to use words such as "perhaps" and I think" and "maybe" in reference to your desire to be done, I think your support group here will continue to talk DBing to you.

Fair enough. I continue to use ambiguous words because I have two months left in the "official" S agreement. I think staying open minded is the correct thing to do, it's what I agreed to. So, I understand where you and others are coming from, bdub, and accept that. After all, I'm on DB-ing site, and I respect that, and I appreciate all the help I have received.

Originally Posted By: Underdog

BTW, I won't abandon talking to you even if you don't use words like perhaps or I think or maybe. Free will comes into play here, and you DO have choices. I trust that you know your heart better than any of us here.

Thanks, Bets. I appreciate the support. Here's a tidbit about the way RPP uses hedging words. When I was studying for the CPA exam, I was working full-time also. My goal was to nail the exam in one try, even though statistically that doesn't usually happen. I didn't want to spend that kind of time twice. So I studied like a banchee, and I also am naturally a good test-taker. I sat for the exam (2 1/2 days at the time) and knew I nailed it. But when people asked me how I thought I did, I hedged. Well, I hope....I think....I probably did OK..... In fact, I was an Elijah Watt Sell winner, putting me in the top 1% of scorers that year (top 115 out of 30,000 takers). Before the scores came out, I would have never said, "Yes, I feel like I did really well!" just in case. So....as it relates to my M, I use I think and maybe....just in case.

WHOA. I bow to thee, RPP. I did well enough, but WOW. I bow deeply.

Wow, rpp, that's amazing. I mean really amazing. It's like passing the bar the first time. You *should* be proud of yourself, because that's a really big accomplishment.

Side note -- relating to ^^^^^ accomplishment-- have you thought of hanging out your own shingle? I have 2 friends (who are parents' of D20's friends) who have left the corporate world and done just this. One's a dad and the other a mom to a physically disabled girl of 21. They both cater to small businesses and the dad specifically created a niche for start ups. They both work from home when they need to and set their schedule to work within their constraints. The money is fabulous, to boot.

I can't tell you how many people in the course of my bookkeeping gig ask me for accountant recommendations. In fact, that weird text the other day was an assumption that I *was* the CPA and not the bookkeeper. And I definitely told him I don't even do my own. LOL. (Isn't this the equivalent of the defendant who acts as his own attorney? Which we all know what that means...) Besides, I don't have your qualifications.

I know the the mom to the girl really loves the variation in her job. She spends a lot of time connecting with people she really likes and respects. I personally think it sounds like a great job. If only I got my degree in accounting and finished my MBA... instead, I have to live vicariously through you guys.

Anyhoo, just a thought. Also... the CPA firm that does my taxes (personally and professionally since I'm the officer) is always looking for a staff accountant. I know these firms are out there because I know people who work for them. They pay well, and the good ones are family oriented. They allow crunch work at home since everything is done over the network anyway. Flexibility AND great pay would be hard to turn down. Plus you'd get the benefits that way.

Okay, time to head to D17's basketball game. Or in her case, socialization mid court.

Even more Impressed By you now !!!!!!!!!! Take Care. Rd

For the record, I have ALWAYS been impressed by you, even without knowing your CPA test score.

Awwww.....now I"m all blushing and stuff......

And there are some things going on with the job that I just can't talk about. And that includes interactions with H about it all. But just suffice it to say that I did see/talk with/email/text H today, and it was almost all job related.

AND, this is bigger news, D16 finally went over to her dad's place tonight. It's the first time she's been to even see the place, and she's going to spend the night. I told her I was glad, and we talked about the best route to get herself to school tomorrow, traffic can be nasty here. Overall, I think she's beginning to thaw.

You know I'm a big fan of yours too, RPP.

rpp, per your post on ralice's thread, of course I'll stick around for you. You'll get to a good place, and are already making steps to get there. You're obviously a very smart, competent person with lots going for you. I know you'll be fine.

Originally Posted By: rppfl

As distressing as having to look for a new job is, I'm not really all that unhappy to be leaving my old one. It's unfortunate that it rips away my church home with it, at least for now, but maybe I'm needed somewhere else.

I'm still holding on to the idea it's going to be my best year ever.

Let your year be what it will, knowing full well that you can handle whatever comes.

Try not to predict what will happen around your church, cause we just don't know. While it must be sad and you might feel a bit of abandonment let that emotion move through and then roll with it. Life has a way of showing us our next steps, we can be unhappy, clinging to the past and creating more unhappiness or we can be curious and open.

Those wants, they get us every time

So...let me whine for a moment. I have previously posted about how late H always worked, how on the only two occasions I ever asked him to come home early he got there at 8pm. How he couldn't come to his kids games after school because they were "in the middle of his workday".

So today is his overnight with D12 but I'm with her at physical therapy. He just texted me to say he was leaving the office, could I drop her at his place. And my question is---since when has he ever left the office at 5:30? What the he!!? Why didn't I ever get 5:30? I'm feeling just a little jealous and cheated right now.

Oooohhhh do I hear you on that one. STBX always has to bid for shifts and miraculously 2 months after BD he started getting one weekend day off. So convenient.

And, not that I would have ever asked him to dress like a cowboy, but I do remember the grief I got for asking him to put on something besides a t-shirt and shorts to go to dinner :-)

Yeah, rpp, I hear ya. Last year this VERY time H couldn't be bothered to make it to ANY of D's basketball game but one. The one he spent behind the bleachers on his phone the entire time. Now, suddenly he's available for every karate class, tournament, every school function (that I've been going to alone since she was old enough to attend school) and up to enjoy breakfast with her and take her to school on his days.

Dont' get me wrong, I love it for D. It's awesome in every single way but man, what I wouldn't have given for him to get up with us in the chaos that is the morning. Or to hear him cheer for her at a game. Or to be home for dinner (at ANY TIME) and not seem annoyed that I even asked.

In the end, I'm grateful though. D has a dad, something she didn't have pre BD.

Yep. yep yep yep. Trying to focus on the positive that my D has so much more quality time with her dad now.

rpp,

I have so many friends who were in this dynamic, and while for some of them it took the divorce to step up, some of them had their aha moment while they were going through it. What I find sadder is that there are intact married families who accept this and just keep moving on autopilot. I have some friends with sad stories.

Consider this... your pleas might have fallen on deaf ears because he used a P/A approach to punish you? He knew full well what you wanted because you said it, and often. Please know I shared this dynamic as well - not with the kids, but in other areas of our married life. I can't tell you how many date nights got the kibbosh when something at work popped up and he "couldn't say no". I'd get pissy and he'd retaliate by ignoring me. It was his way of dealing with my control issues with the only tools he had in his tool box at the time. The deeper into this dynamic we went, the more our marriage spiraled down the toilet. By the time he moved out, we felt nothing but resentment toward each other. It was sad. What was even sadder is that our friends and family watched it happen and tried to intervene to help. It really couldn't gain much traction because our families live out of state.

The only thing I can say is that, at the very least, your H realizes what he needs to do to have a R with his kids. He's prioritized that much, and if you have to take the bullet, my guess is you'd rather take that bullet for any and all of your kids. They don't have another dad.

After I got over the sulks of this, I realized that his actions said everything I needed to know: he didn't value me as his wife. There are some good books about passive aggressiveness out there, which are good reads. They might give you more insight on better communication and parenting for the long haul. But you've done a good job at cleaning up your side of the street. Know that the past isn't an indicator of your future - especially when you continue to do the self work to get where you want to be.

What you focus on expands. So don't look at the ugly. Look at the good. You'll get that back tenfold.

Hugs, friends.

Betsey

Originally Posted By: Underdog

The only thing I can say is that, at the very least, your H realizes what he needs to do to have a R with his kids. He's prioritized that much, and if you have to take the bullet, my guess is you'd rather take that bullet for any and all of your kids. They don't have another dad.

After I got over the sulks of this, I realized that his actions said everything I needed to know: he didn't value me as his wife.

Bets, this part is right on the money. I'm happy my kids have a new-improved dad, and realize that he could have put me first all these years but he chose not to. So be it.

I really never nagged him about his schedule, I'm more of a rug sweeper. I might ask once or twice and then when I don't get the response I'm looking for, I don't ask again. I just seethe silently.

All good information for the future.

I had lunch with a friend yesterday, we talked about a lot of things, and she asked me if I was ready to date. I'm still turning that one over in my brain, I really want to, I don't know if I should, and nobody is knocking on the door anyway. I'm watching Maybell very closely.

What you focus on expands. So don't look at the ugly. Look at the good. You'll get that back tenfold.

Boy did I need to hear that. Thanks Bets.

I would like to chime in on the whole "working late, always busy" issue.
Is it possible these "workaholics" justified their actions by saying they were doing it for their family? I know that is what I did. I worked a lot of hours thinking my W would always be there and that she would be glad that I was sacraficing for the good of the family. Instead, she felt taken for granted, abandoned and that she was not a priority.

RPP, it scares me slightly how much you're paying attention to me.

I want to remind you -- after my conversation with STBX when I found out how far back his cheating goes (and how casually he approached it), I came to a moment of ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR clarity. And I really, really do want to be with a person who treats me as I'm important (and church fella has expressed interest in ME and MY INTERESTS) and I realize that in spite of how hard I tried, I haven't actually been in a marriage in many years. Just pulled around like luggage. So things feel very different for me than they will for you.

If STBX came back today and said that he wanted to work on the M, I'd say no. Because FIRST he'd have to be a great dad. THEN he'd have to be interested in me in a way that he never, ever has been. And then we'd have to find some common interests (which would require him to be interested in something I like, inconceivable), and we'd have to have fun together. Those things are NOT going to happen. Maybe the dad thing will, but the rest of it, for sure, will not.

I'm not ready to be in a serious relationship, but I love people and church fella looks interesting enough to get to know regardless of whether it ever becomes "dating" -- whatever that is.

Hugs to you, lady, I feel like we'd be good friends if we ever met IRL.

rpp--You know that "silently seething" is a form of passive aggressiveness, right?

bdub--I think men have a tough time with the slippery slope of workaholism/avoidance. From the get go, you guys get immersed in "must take care of your families by working hard and earning money". I get that... really do. And there are good role models out there, people who are in the middle somewhere, and people who are horrible role models. (Mothers too.) I think our cultural upbringings have something to do with it as well.

Workaholism is no different than any other "-holism". (A*holism?

) Addiction to anything isn't good for us. Balance is good for us. Yet, we know people who just can't seem to shake this type of addiction. They think they aren't hurting anyone. My sister is a classic workaholic. She has an on and an off button. No speeds in the middle. She's either ON or OFF. It's created problems with her marriage, though their marriage is not in trouble. My BIL keeps at it, and my parents and I periodically have to have a reality check with her. I think my brother's death helped a little bit, but time will tell.

I also understand the ebb/tide of jobs that have demands that sometimes you can't mitigate. Like the doctors' spouses, who are on call frequently. Or military spouses, who get used to long term deployments. Or CPA spouses, who figure out they can't ever vacation from January to April 15th and leave weekends alone too. You get the drift. My XH is a rocket scientist. No, really. The 18 months after launch, he travels 10 days/month. Then he can go a couple years with light travel. I just accept that. I wasn't so great at that before. That's the part of me I hated and changed.

But there will *always* be people who hide behind work to avoid what they know they should be doing to create balance in their home and professional lives. I find this uber true for people having marital problems for any length of time. I have a really good friend who has basically hated his wife for 18 years now. (She's not a very nice person, and I speak this personally--control freak, chore-aholic, moving addict, not a nurturing mother.) He's got some sort of moral compass that he uses to tell himself "after the kids leave". Ironically, his youngest graduates in June, so we'll see what he does. His job is busy, don't get me wrong. But I've known him long enough to say that if I lived in the same town as he does, if I called him on a Wednesday night to go to an Irish pub, he'd leave work early. Happily. And he'd buy rounds all night. You get the drift.

It's up to us to be authentic in our own relationships. Everyone else can f*ck off.

I often wonder if the extra work causes the marital issues, or the other way around. Maybe a combination of both.

That moment of clarity that Maybell speaks of hit me too. I did not trust that feeling for several weeks and I actually tried to talk myself into not giving up. Several times.

Originally Posted By: Maybell

RPP, it scares me slightly how much you're paying attention to me.

Maybell, I have to watch reasonable people on this board, it's all I have to go by. The only two couples I have been friends with while they went through the D process are both disasters in a huge way. I need a better example. And here you are! My virtual friend

H came over for his birthday dinner tonight. He and D12 just left. It was nice. It was interesting. I'll fill in more tomorrow.

Good morning!

Here's the rest of the birthday dinner story. Last night was H's birthday dinner. His choice to grill steaks at the house. D16's bf was there and it was a nice evening. After dinner, at a moment the kids weren't around, H said thank you, gave me a hug, and his hands wandered and lingered on my backside a while. Ahhhhh.....so we are back to that?

Sometimes I listen to an advice radio program in the car. Yesterday the advice-giver used the term "make it real" referring to allowing people to reap the consequences of their own choices and us not bailing them out. Maybe this is the week to make it a little more real.

That almost sounds like a break through moment.

He was after a birthday present ?? ;-)

I have chosen to take the path of "make it real". I will admit that when I first decided to stop helping WAW it was so that I could watch her fall flat on her face. Horrible, I know.
The benefit I got was that her problems were no longer my problems. I needed that so I could focus more on me, detach, and work on my side of the fence. Now when I hear about the leaky faucet, the leaky checkbook, and the ill mannered boys I validate her feelings and think to myself that I am very lucky to have non of those issues.

Hi Rppfl sounds like he was very comfortable with you and while that's hard for you it shows the connection is still there on a certain level. Take it for what it was , a nice moment but no game changer.

Take care. Rd

Originally Posted By: bdub

That almost sounds like a break through moment.

In a way. Not a breakthrough as in "boy, I never thought of that" because, obviously, I'm well aware. And I broke that "rule" with my eyes wide open. It was more of a gentle nudge of "maybe I should move that direction". I don't know exactly what that will look like. Holidays, surgery, birthdays are over (well, D16 turns 17 in a month). But we have taxes to get done (and they are complicated this year because of a business transaction), some items regarding my employment or lack thereof. And on a smaller scale, I have already committed to going to church and breakfast tomorrow because S19 came in for the weekend. So, we'll see. At the least it's something to be aware of. Notice how I'm interacting and see if I can cut it down. I haven't been in contact with him today, although I have texted D12 a few times, and I'm sure she tells him every word I say.

Originally Posted By: bdub

He was after a birthday present ?? ;-).

Originally Posted By: rd500

Hi Rppfl sounds like he was very comfortable with you and while that's hard for you

Yes, H was apparently after his birthday present. I guess a guy gets used to certain things after so many years.

You know, RD, it's not difficult to have him do that, it's easy. I've been faithful to him since I was 22. Here's the hard part: H thinking that he should be able to ease into a sexual relationship, even a part-time one, without any of the trappings that I now want to go with it. I want compliments, a guy telling me I'm pretty, flirting that's not so overtly sexual, want to feel valued, that someone is interested in ME and not simply getting me into bed. I love sex, think it's important, and in the past I've allowed H to skimp in the romance department for lots of different excuses: it's not his personality, I personally can enjoy the sex without it (not true for most women, guys, don't go by me). It's just that now I have the chance to get it, and H isn't offering it. That's the hard part. It would be super easy to fall into bed with him, and I'd enjoy it. But I just feel like I need to hold out for better.

I have plans tonight with the party meetup. They are nice people and always up for a good time. They just aren't going to be my new best friends, and that's fine. They are getting me out of the house tonight.

Originally Posted By: bdub

I have chosen to take the path of "make it real". I will admit that when I first decided to stop helping WAW it was so that I could watch her fall flat on her face.

bdub, I've been thinking about this. There's no possibility that H would fall flat on his face. He's good-looking, charming, makes a very nice living, is well respected in the community. My lack of contact isn't going to change any of that. Not a drop. In fact, the only thing I have to offer is shared history.

Boy, are you selling yourself short with THAT statement.

Don't you realize how much you legitimize him?

Originally Posted By: Maybell

Boy, are you selling yourself short with THAT statement.

Don't you realize how much you legitimize him?

What I meant was, a WAW might have trouble financially, might not know how to handle a house, a car, etc. and would struggle if LBH cut her off. That's clearly not the case here. H has a lot going for him, and there's no inconvenience to his life if I'm not in it. So he eats out a lot and does his own laundry. Not a dealbreaker, apparently.

Maybe not. But my STBX is similar in some ways to your H, and I think that the ways he's permittin his character to evolve put him at risk of dying alone. Living like a hipster might be ok now, but will it work for him in 10 years? I expect to be better off.

ATTENTION: Yesterday was a NC day, the first one since before Christmas. Just thought I'd point that out. Today won't be, as I"m heading to church in a bit.

My GAL last night was ok, not all that great, really, but I got out of the house. My party group met at a really popular bar in Little Havana, there was a band, it was loud, it was really, really crowded. Not my preference in a lot of ways, but I dressed up and got out there anyway. I'd really rather have a glass of wine in my pjs at home, but I'm not going to make new friends that way. So I GAL on......

rppfl,

I also feel like there's no consequences to my H. He also is quite good-looking and charming. One of the reasons I've been so annoyed with my MIL is b/c he's staying there (I realize this is probably better than him staying with a friend) and she let him set up his playstation in her living room and she recently joked "I can tell when I'm watching my shows at night that he's waiting for me to go to bed so he can start playing his game. It must help him to relax or something." I sort of laughed, but thought "Why should my H have to come back? Rather than saying, 'You're 40-something years old, go home to your family.' She's saying 'Here son, set up your playstation and get as comfy as you can and make yourself at home.'"

The NC and GAL is more for us than for them, we have to keep reminding ourselves that. Glad you hear you got out to Little Havana. That sounds like fun, but yeah, I get you on the preference to be home in PJs too.

I really hate my H right at this moment. He's an insensitive jerk with no regards to my feelings whatsoever. He always has been. So why is that upsetting me today?

Hi Rppfl. It's upsetting because your a good , decent woman that doesn't deserve this. It's easy to get upset because while you might have be 50% to blame for problems in your marriage , you wanted to work on them.

We all struggle with how the WAS now behaves because it's not as you would expect of the person we feel in love with. My thoughts are with you and chin up. The future has to be better. Hugs and take care. Rd

(((RPP)))

Thinking of you today.

I'm sorry that's how today went. Hugs for you.

Thanks RD and Jefe. The issue was a conversation at breakfast that I found awkward, disrespectful, and just generally clueless about me in general. I texted him my feelings later and he was dumbfounded at my position. He hasn't given a flip about my feelings our whole M. My opinion, yes, I'm a clever girl, but apparently not allowed to have real human emotions. Anyway, I suppose the moral of the story is that those breakfast conversations can't happen if I don't attend breakfast.

I'm sorry that convo was insensitive and disrespectful, rpp. You're right though, not attending breakfast will prevent bad breakfast convos.

Who are you going to breakfast for? The kids? Him? You?

Originally Posted By: Ss06

Who are you going to breakfast for? The kids? Him? You?

The kids. S19 was home this weekend, and it was dad's weekend for D12. I find it near impossible to pass up spending the time with her on his weekends.

Hi rpp, sorry to hear your H was being a jerk at breakfast.

I wanted to step back a page to something you and Maybell were talking about. How your Hs are charming successful and will not fall flat on their faces. (That's not what Maybell said but that was the topic) That H will be fine and the only thing he will miss is your shared history.

I see what you are saying but I don't agree. While it may be more dramatic in situations where the WAS life crumbled upon leaving - homeless, no money, drama... I also think that the person who seems on the outside to be doing just fine can be suffering just as much on the inside.

For example, my H is good looking, successful and young. Since BD (7 month) he has dated and had sex with more women than he had in his entire life before that. He's meeting hot new people and partying with them all the time. He has a swanky apartment. He has a fancy job. You get the idea.

He is miserable. I can clearly see it in his eyes and he even says so.

Sure all these outer successes might make him feel like he's doing great but he doesn't feel great.

And I've seen it with many other guys I have known in the past. On the outside they are living the good life: nice car, hot women, good job. But what they miss is that GOOD KIND SPECIAL best friend who understood them and who they had a bond with. It's a huge factor.

I know you basically said this, but I just wanted to repeat it.

Rpp you sound like a super amazing lady. Your H is an idiot.

Hugs, Lisa

Thanks, Lisa. It must be difficult for you to watch your H and see he's miserable but yet doesn't see you as the solution to that. In my case, H seems just fine. He seems happy as a clam, and we talk about nothing at all. No indications that he has anything less than a perfect life. Maybe it's there on the inside, but you think something would slip out if he was truly unhappy.

Still, I am grateful that he's being a good dad, is being attentive to the house, being helpful to me in a friend kind of way. Heck, he even issues booty calls from time to time, which is almost flattering. Maybe that's going to have to be enough for now. Maybe that's going to have to be enough for a long time.

Last night I had a dream that I was sitting at a table in a restaurant with a group, and I was flirting with a guy that was clearly into it. But when I woke up from the dream, and thought about it logically, I estimated the age of the guy to be somewhere in the realm of possibility of being my S. (My own S is 19, but I could have easily tacked on 10 years to that.) Ewwwww.....way to kill the fantasy. Maybe I'm not ready to date after all.

Maybe your flirting partner appeared young in your dream because it was a representation of something fresh and new to you? Maybe it was because you are used to flirting with a mental midget? Dreams are so amazing because you can take WHATEVER you want from them.

Great job on the NC day ;-)

RPP you are riding the rollercoaster more than usual. This too shall pass.

Originally Posted By: bdub

Maybe your flirting partner appeared young in your dream because it was a representation of something fresh and new to you?

RPP you are riding the rollercoaster more than usual. This too shall pass.

bdub, I love your take on the dream. In general, I think dreams are largely a file purge, cleaning out what's not useful, filing away what is. I do believe that some dreams are significant, however, that there is meaning attached. I don't know that this one is significant, but seeing it as a sign of fresh, new, and exciting is something I like.

And yes, I am in a period of ups and downs way more than usual. But I'm aware that a big chunk of that is my health and job issues. If those had not taken place, I think my R with H would be a lot more stable. Or maybe not. Maybe it took those things to show me what a good friend and a good X he could be.

Its interesting that you took not wanting to date a 20 year old as not being ready to date.

You've got a lot going on but hopefully things will level out in a good place for you soon.

LOL, Jim, ^^^^^ cracks me up!

rpp, I'd NEVER, EVER date someone my daughter's age. I wouldn't even have a one night stand with anyone in that age range. (My personal sliding scale goes 12 years, so for me, that makes 40-41--my birthday is coming up

). But I can promise you that I sure as heck can appreciate a beautiful specimen who is a peer of my D20. I'd even go so far as to say I'd allow a fantasy that includes one.

But to make that a reality? Hell, no! Gross!

But when it comes down to good old fashioned dating, I want someone around my age, give or take a few years. Sliding scale can come into play if I meet a truly fantastic and mature 45 year old. I'm keeping open about that. Don't start making excuses to cover fear! Besides, you're not D yet, so why put that cart before the horse? Get through that crapola and *then* you can see if there are any candidates out there that interest you. If one appears, let him audition for you. Like Maybell with her church guy. He's auditioning, and it's not a lock that he's right for the part.

Back to basics, friend. Rein back on those expectations. All you need to do is act the way that makes YOU feel good. Period. His jerkiness is not a reflection of you. Got it?

Hugs-Betsey

Bets, I don't actually have any expectations regarding dating, it was just a dream. I can't control those LOl. In reality the whole thing probably came from a sweet young piece of bartender eye candy that I was enjoying on Saturday. Just my brain cleaning and purging.

I saw my IC today and will update later when I don't have to do it from my phone.

LOL, well, dream on! I'm holding out for a Channing Tatum look-a-like. Why not go for the top rung of the ladder?

Originally Posted By: Underdog

LOL, well, dream on! I'm holding out for a Channing Tatum look-a-like. Why not go for the top rung of the ladder?

Oh my you and I think a lot alike. And now you understand my attraction to the bartender.

Finally getting a chance to update on IC session. We spent a good chunk of it going over the time around my surgery, how H transformed into BFF and how that was OK with me. IC commented that H is a good friend and will make a good X. And I think she's probably right. Better than a bad X. And we talked about the booty calls, and how I didn't know what they were all about. And that I don't really care what they were all about, as I have no intention of taking him up on them.

And we spent the rest of the time talking about my job, or lack thereof, how it was something that needed to be done but the timing seems unfortunate. What type of job I might want to do, how accounting/finance in the obvious choice, but that I have gained a lot of skills in a lot of other areas in the past 12 years. She gave me some suggestions to think about.

And for the first time since I've been going to her, I didn't cry. Didn't even tear up. I consider that a milestone.

Oh, Channing Tatum. I hadn't even imagined that high up. I'll have sweet dreams tonight.

You know, he's 34, which by the 12 year over/under rule makes him in range, if only he weren't married.

RPP, the day I went to IC and didn't cry made me SO HAPPY. (Of course that was also the second to last day I ever *went* to IC, but as they say... that's another story).

You are amazing. You got here so much faster than me. Well done.

Oh, and sweet dreams.

Originally Posted By: Maybell

Oh, Channing Tatum. I hadn't even imagined that high up.

LOL, Maybell. I said on RD's thread the other day that I'm not one to drool over movie stars. And it's true. But that boy is fine.

I just found out that one of the secretaries on the school side has been living apart from her H for two years. I didn't know. There's an OW, and I understood every word of how she felt about still having feelings for H, how he spends a lot of time with her, but runs off to OW when he needs a fix. I understood her frustration with having to live in a teeny apartment with her S while her H lives in a teenier apartment by himself, when the rents combined could get them something nice for all of them.

There are so many things I don't understand......

Sigh......I thought I might have NC day today. And it's not even 10am and that has gone to he!! in a hand basket. There's always tomorrow......

Channing sure is eye candy, isn't he? He's one of the select few that my D20 and I both go gaga over. When Magic Mike came out, you can bet we were first in line. Sad plot, but more eye candy. If she's around when the next one comes out, I'm sure we'll have to see that too. Part of our civic duty. BTW, she's got an eye for eye candy my age. We both are gaga over Jon Bon Jovi as well. So it feels good to have a generational companion for universal male appreciation.

Well, the OW fills a "need" just like a drug addict gets his fix. He's addicted to how he feels when he's with her. I'm not sure I'd give anyone more than 2 years if that nonsense continued to be part of the equation. I'd definitely not be sleeping with him. I never have been attracted to guys who sleep around, for any reason.

My D17 and I started a water workout class at the gym last night. The instructor got in the pool and came over to a couple women who had been chatting up with me and D17 and told us that before class, she found a note at home after work from her H telling her he was leaving, and he'd be in touch through a lawyer and not to contact him because it would upset OW. We were all a little amazed at her. She was pissed, but focused. And her middle school aged boy seemed... happy. Afterward, we congratulated her for sticking through a workout with 43 people, and she just said, "I had a feeling that something was wrong. He'd go from not speaking to me much to being sicky sweet. But I'll tell you that I take a back seat to no other woman, and if I'm not #1, I don't want him either. I'm no dog that wants to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me." And it was a good workout, so no complaints about her being unfocused. Kind of amazing, actually. I was a wreck when my XH left. There is no way I was focused enough to do anything other than sign checks.

Onward and upward. That's all we can do.

<------ Wipes the drool off the DB message boards.....

I don't get the Tatum thing. Just because hes rich, talented, successful, good looking, ripped, and has a full head of hair is no reason to lust after him :-)

Bets, I was crushed the day D16 identified Mark Wahlberg as a good looking "middle aged man". Broke my heart. She still likes Johnny Depp, though, and doesn't add in an age qualifier.

Bdub, sorry about the drool. It's been a long 2 1/2 months.

LOL, bdub!

Okay, here's a little secret. Although I can't speak for others here, I'm going to weigh in with the opinions of my inner chick circle - some married some not. All of them are 50+.

Those adjectives you listed? Individually mean nothing to me. Rich? Nope. I like a man who is willing to learn. College education implies this, but I'm willing to overlook that degree for someone who reads, is intelligent and absorbs knowledge. Getting down to brass tacks, I'd like for him to have a job or be in financial position to take care of himself and his obligations (if any). In short, we come to the table as partners and peers.

Talented? We all have talents. I don't have a thing for celebrities. I could definitely have the hots for a carpenter. Oh wait, I've already done that. LOL.

Successful? Well, yep. Successful at whatever his passion is. Not by my terms. See "support himself" above.

Ripped? Nah. I admire them because it's a lot of work to get a six pack. But I'll admit that I don't mind the battle scars of aging one bit. If he has a little ponch, I don't mind. That translates well to someone who will eat with me. And I love to cook for an appreciative audience.

Hair? No again. I totally dig a balding head. No combovers, though! See below for commentary on the combover.

Combovers are indicative of someone who just isn't happy being him. In a huge catchall nutshell? One word. Confidence. I totally have the hots for someone who exudes confidence. Not cockiness or conceit. Just a simple he shows up to a party, knows his own self worth, is kind to his mom and kitties but knows he's a man. One other thing: he better have a good sense of humor.

Nice to have? Okay, let's shoot for the moon here. I LOVE Irish men. Blue eyes, dark hair. Scots also welcome. LOVE. But I have no problem with gingers or blondes. Or grays.

I'll add someone who likes to read and has a good or decent vocabulary. He also better like to travel.

And it goes without saying that anyone I'm gonna drool over for real is going to have to accept my special needs daughter. We're a package deal.

As my grandma used to say, "handsome is as handsome does".

rpp--HAHAHAHA! But... Marky Mark IS a middle aged man now. And Johnny Depp is only 2 years younger than I am. So, I guess that makes us... middle aged?

2 1/2 months? You'll have to read if you want to know how long it was for me. And I have no regrets either.

Originally Posted By: Underdog

rpp--HAHAHAHA! But... Marky Mark IS a middle aged man now. And Johnny Depp is only 2 years younger than I am. So, I guess that makes us... middle aged?

I had "Marky Mark" typed out and changed it because I wasn't sure anyone else here would catch on.

It's looking like tomorrow is my last day at the office. Still working out details. H has been helpful in this whole process. And today he met a plumber at the house and he picked up D12 from school because I had a dr apt. He really is being a good friend right now.

I'm back for one last post tonight because I'd really like to tell my H goodnight. I sometimes have that urge when we've had a lot of contact in a day. But I won't do it. So I'll tell all of you instead. Goodnight.

Good night, sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.

And...

Sweet dreams.

Goodnight!

Thanks ladies! I slept great until about 4.I do remember a dream nothing with any eye candy though.

I will check in later.

No dreams here, either. At least any that I remember. Plus I slept through my snooze alarm, so I think I was just plain tired. It's snowing outside and one of those days where you just want to crawl back into bed. Oh well.

Quote:

He really is being a good friend right now.

Good for you! Who couldn't use a good friend when you need one? Besides, if you're anything like me, if that had happened 6 months before, you'd have been lucky to get acknowledgement, let alone help. I'm glad that you have support, rpp. It really does go a long way in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck today at work. Just remember, your passion is through the next portal and awaits your ending here. Who couldn't be excited about that?

I did have a dream last night. It involved the revelation that my house had a whole large room I previously had forgotten about. It included a luxurious bathroom, closets, and dressing area. Apparently H had decorated it all by himself, used it all the time, but I used another very small bathroom elsewhere in the house. It seems that it never occurred to H to ask me why I didn't use the larger nicer room. Hmmmmm.....that one's not all that hard to interpret, is it?

I have nothing to say today. Just wondering what I'll do with myself tomorrow instead of go to work. A year ago I thought I didn't want a job, and I had a list of things I wanted to focus on instead. I'll pull that list out and revise it a bit, take H off the list, add look for a job.

There are a couple of big universities in town, and a few smaller ones. IC thinks I should explore jobs there, because there would be so many people to meet. It's not a bad idea.

And, finally, to conclude my disjointed rambly post, let me just say that I have noticed that H has not yet paid his February rent. That concerns me that he has either 1) opened a new bank account, or 2) thinks he's moving home. I won't dwell on either of those because it's total unproductive mindreading, but there you go.

Originally Posted By: Underdog

Good for you! Who couldn't use a good friend when you need one? Besides, if you're anything like me, if that had happened 6 months before, you'd have been lucky to get acknowledgement, let alone help. I'm glad that you have support, rpp. It really does go a long way in the grand scheme of things.

I totally agree. I am grateful for his support, for his kindness, for his willingness to spend time on things. He's a crap H, but a good friend. And, as IC pointed out, will make a good X.

I just turned in my keys and closed my door for the last time. I worked there 17 years. Oh my...

Reinventing yourself from the ground up. Congratulations.

On to new and exciting opportunities!(But take a little break for a while

)

Hi Rppfl as one door closes another one opens !!! I hope your ok Take care. Rd

Praying for you RPP.

Thanks, friends. This week has been stressful, from that perspective I'm glad to have it over. I dont have any big to do lists for the next couple of days, I truly want to take it easy and thoughtfully plan my next steps.

NC was clearly out the door today as I negotiated the final agreement. H was very helpful in that regard. Tomorrow will require contact relating to D12. Maybe Friday

RPP

Offering you all the support I can across the miles.

V

What did you feel as you closed the door?

(loved the palatial BR dream)

Thanks, Vanilla, and all. I have very modest goals for the day. I have already dropped D12 at school, turned in her registration form for next year, been to the gym, stopped by the gas station, done some laundry, checked a few other things off my daily list. I deleted my work email account from my phone so I'm not tempted to check it.

As far as H goes, he sent a text long after I went to sleep last night, and I responded this morning. All about D12's schedule today. That's fine.

Hmmmm....what to do next.

Originally Posted By: labug

What did you feel as you closed the door?

Leaving that job felt a lot like I do about my M right now. It was a great run, I poured my whole self into it, I did the best I could, I have some great memories, and it's clear that I'm no longer valued. It's time to move on, and I can leave it behind with honor. There's something out there much better in my future.

That is so powerful!

May you be happy
May you be safe
May you be free from suffering.

RPP

Have you put together a network plan with all those lovely guys and gals from the church?

Time to make a few calls, put a CV together and sashay into the limelight.

You have the freedom to choose just within your grasp.

I said it once and will say it again louder this time. I am excited for you

V

Vanilla, I haven't decided exactly what I'm after here. I'm enjoying a few days with no agenda, and letting a little awkwardness die down on both sides.

Tomorrow I have lunch plans with former boss and then dinner out with new mom friends from D12s school. These are the same moms I had to explain a couple of weeks ago that "D12's dad will come pick them up". So at least they know we are S. I don't have to do any confessions. That's nice.

Day 2 of unemployment. I have to say it's pretty nice.

I received the severance payment as a direct deposit in my bank account today. I intend to transfer it out to a new account so that I can keep track of how much I'm spending. It occurs to me that I now have the means to pay a L retainer without H knowing about it. I'm not running off to the L's office today but its something to consider. I made a commitment not to file until the defined S is over and I'll honor that. What happens next depends on what kind of conversation we have then, but D is looking like a strong possibility. H has never once brought up reconciling, not even in theory. And I'm at the place where I'm ok with that. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me and clearly he doesn't.

Former boss 2 (the one I just left) texted me this morning to say he was sending a letter to the congregation explaining my position had been eliminated due to budget cuts. And proposing a Sunday to honor me for my years of ministry. I am ok with that, I've seen this played out more than once over the years. It's not really for me, it's for the congregation. Its a funeral of sorts, a way for them to come to terms with it. I was there for 17 years, involved in almost every ministry, and for some, the only remaining tie back to the retired priest they loved so much. They'll miss me.

Today I have a couple errands and lunch out with a friend. It's a beautiful day, we'll find a place with out door seating

Quote:

It occurs to me that I now have the means to pay a L retainer without H knowing about it.

I know you are saying that he won't know now. Keep in mind that if it goes to D, everything becomes visible during the discovery process, so he'll know then. At that point, maybe neither of you care -- just saying nothing is invisible.

Originally Posted By: zew

Quote:

It occurs to me that I now have the means to pay a L retainer without H knowing about it.

I know you are saying that he won't know now. Keep in mind that if it goes to D, everything becomes visible during the discovery process, so he'll know then. At that point, maybe neither of you care -- just saying nothing is invisible.

Thanks, Zew, I do understand that. But if the decision comes to D, I won't care what he knows.

The L I've chosen is expensive. But H has spent many multiples of that on the apartment, rent, nice furnishings, extra parking for the duck. And I haven't forgotten the really large chunk of cash he took out and gave me a very lame excuse what he did with it. The L's retainer is a drop in the bucket, and I'm not going to cheap out on representation. I guess I don't want to tip my hand now because I feel like he's going to say we can settle this by ourselves and not spend a lot on Ls. But that's not the way it's going to be played.

I'm a big believer in things working out the way they are supposed to. A couple of months ago, I was thinking that if I was supposed to file for D, then the money for the retainer would miraculously drop in my lap. Hmmmmm......something to think about.

Is it possible that H sees things a little differently? Maybe he sees it as a set amount of time apart, and THEN talk about R?

With that being said, my reccomendation is to seek legal counsel. Knowledge is power.

Sounding strong Rppfl. Take care. Rd

Thanks RD.

Originally Posted By: bdub

Is it possible that H sees things a little differently? Maybe he sees it as a set amount of time apart, and THEN talk about R?

With that being said, my reccomendation is to seek legal counsel. Knowledge is power.

Bdub, you are right, he might be waiting for the "big" conversation. But I'm kind of basing his lack of interest on other things, too. He's not showing any interest in me in general. This week's version had to do with a dr appointment. I went to see a hematologist. He knew that I was going. I texted him after the appointment with no reply. The next day we were texting about other things (kids) and I mentioned I'd like to talk to him about the dr visit. There are some genetic issues that could affect the children, you think he'd be interested in that at least. But he said he was busy, that he'd call later. He didn't, of course. And we still haven't talked about it. He just doesn't put any effort into me. Into the kids and family, yes. Into family finances, yes. Into RPP personally, no. And you think if he wanted to R, if he was even considering it, trying to keep the door open, he'd make some effort in this department.

I saw two Ls a few months ago, and have a good understand of how this all should play out if we go that route. The one I like most is the more expensive of the two. So be it. You are correct that knowledge is power.

Good morning! Last night I had dinner with some parents from D12s school and had a really fun time. Before they invited me I had planned to go to dinner with a meetup group. This was definitely more fun, more comfortable for me. I knew lots of other people at the restaurant/club and as the other parents and I talked we found tons of people we know in common. It was fun.

Yesterday was an almost NC day with H. He forwarded me a couple of emails from people he'd received about my job but we didn't really discuss anything.

No big plans for today.

Hi Rppfl. Sounds like you had a good evening and that's always got to be good.

Can I ask if you and H have a date set at the end of separation to discuss R ?

What's your thoughts on how it's going for you , are there signs that H is thinking over R or to you does it seem done and dusted. I only ask because you seem strong in your posts and you have had a lot of extra stress due to job etc but you remain strong

Have a nice relaxing day. Take care Rd

Hi RD. Yes, the separation agreement spelled out a defined S period of four months, at which point we would make a conscious decision what to do next. He moved out mid-November, so that date is mid-March. I feel like it's rushing towards me quickly. But I'm happy that there's a definite conversation date, that we aren't just limping along in limbo. The seven months we lived together after BD were like that, especially the three months of apartment shopping. That was he!! every day, not knowing what was coming next.

I think H is done and dusted. I don't see any signs whatsoever that he's considering R. As far as I know, he's still seeing the duck, he doesn't seem to give a flip about my personal life, isn't affectionate in word or touch (booty calls are about sex, not affection), never talks about the future. We haven't been on any dates, don't have any conversations outside kids and house and finances. We don't even fight, that would be showing too much emotion, not to mention there's really nothing to fight about. There is zero to indicate he's interested in me as a W.

I don't know what will happen in the mid-March conversation. I am not sure what I want. Neither one of us has ever used the word "divorce", not even once. Truth is, I'm content with S. A D would force us into some financial actions I'm not anxious to take, things are fine now.

It still bothers me that the February rent hasn't come out of his account, though. That indicates that either he paid it from a different account (that I don't have access to), or he thinks he's moving back. Both are disturbing.

Thanks for replying, i hope I wasn't to intrusive. I wouldn't read to much in to what you see with H as we have no idea what they are thinking If I went through everything my W said to me you would be convinced that W had her bags packed and was ready to move back !

As you well know I'm no expert but your H might be very comfortable now because he has months to go before any decision has to be made. My L/C has told me you are never able to know what the other person may be thinking and even if you did they could change their mind in a heartbeat.

I'm glad your strong because it gives others hope that we can get through this.

Thank you for all the support you continue to give me. I will make it my life mission to buy all the ladies and gents on this site dinner once I am out the other side ( it might be a McDonald voucher in the post ) but dinner it will be

Sorry if it's cheeky but XOXOXOX. Rd

Too intrusive? RD, I've shared a lot more personal things than that! LOL

It's true that H could secretly be thinking R. I just have a hard time believing that a guy could want to R and not show it. That there wouldn't be some sign. That he could basically ignore me as a W, as a woman, and then say, "yes, let's spend the rest of our lives together". I just don't think it works that way. After all, he's not DB-ing.

Dinner is confirmed. There are flights into MIA every day.

Lol Rppfl I know you think I'm joking but dinner will be on me and that's a promise. As I say , it might not be face to face but it will happen.

Take care. Rd

I am up for dinner too.

Cheeeeeeeese..........

I need the cheeseless tunnel less calories and all that exercise running up and down.

H did tell his sister that he did not want a divorce as it might give OW ideas!

Made me roar with laughter, purple bed socks to stop exposure. Bed socks now gummy.

V

V, can't have the OW getting ideas now can we?

Still can't get into the purple bed socks, though.

Hi Rpp

Could be anything going on in his head.

In the couple of months before we got together my wife was clear in her no not interested (less so in how she interacted as there was a lot of chemistry but said no very clearly) because she was worried what other people would think. She was determined we weren't going to be a couple and to keep me as a good friend, so threw herself into dating (slept with a couple of them) to try and distract herself from me but when that didn't work she changed her mind.

I say this because her feelings for me didn't change, But the way she behaved toward me shifted dramatically. To me though it was all very confusing (and quite hurtful when I think about it). So could be anything going on.

Not sure if its helpful but have you given any thought to what your redlines are?

I hope your enjoying the agenda free days.

Originally Posted By: jim0987

Not sure if its helpful but have you given any thought to what your redlines are?

Jim, can you explain this? What would a redline be?

So I have a sincere question. Neither of my Ds wants to church tomorrow. And I am going to allow that. So the question is, if we aren't going, is it rude if I don't tell H? Remember that he and his band have a key role in the service, and also he'll probably be getting a million questions where I am after my abrupt departure this week. Most people don't know we are S. Should I give him a heads up?

Personally I wouldn't but I'm not sure how that fits DBing I do t have any sitchs like that. Go with what's right for you. Take care. Rd

Thanks RD.

I know this isn't a major life decision, but anyone else want to weigh in?

Given the totality of the situation - your recent departure and the overall friendliness of many communications with your h - I don't think a brief text could hurt. I don't think its rude if you don't do it, but its a nice courtesy if you do.

It would be different if it were just you and not the entire family being absent.

I agree with Raliced on this one. Don't have to, but still should.

Or I could just go without the girls......

Why is this hard?

So...the decision is that I will go to my own church (the other choice was go to the one I visited over the summer, I never intended to stay home). Because I don't want it to look like I'm hiding from anyone, and because I don't want H to have to deal with questions about me. I do think there will be a point where I explore other options, but today isn't the day.

Yesterday was a NC day. If I still notice, then I'm not where I want to be yet.

Moving over to a new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2535651&#Post2535651

Good decision I think.

By redlines I meant your limits/boundaries.

As in will you take him back irrespective of how he behaves during the separation or are there things that would mean that it doesn't matter how committed he might decide to be, it would be too much for you to get past. For example if he committed a felony (lots of more likely things but its an example.)

Just wondering about your side of the decision really