Old thread is at 114 messages.
Maybell XXVII My amazing boss made some calls and got me a long list of very effective lawyers. I'm going to be OK.
Next on my list is move logistics. I'm not sure how this is going to work out, but I asked for a job and the right one came. I asked for clarity and I've got clarity. I asked for a lawyer and I've got a list. I've already asked for the housing thing to work out. So I'm going to trust that will work out too and just try to be ready for it.
Labug, you said a lot of your work has been about accepting others' viewpoints. Mine is about patience, above all. But the closer I get to achieving that the calmer and happier I am, so it is completely a worthwhile effort.
My friend yesterday said she couldn't believe the difference in me. She said my posture and my whole demeanor has changed. I've noticed that I'm getting second glances from nice looking men -- no more feeling invisible. I met someone at church last weekend who is single and seems nice. I absolutely do NOT want a relationship or even truly to date (with all the expectations that "dating" comes with) but I'm up for making a new friend who has similar interests to mine. We'll see what happens.
I think I can honestly say that I am happy.
Not much else to say at the moment but I appreciate this community. I was mocking the man cave but I truly would like to see one with good order functioning so I could peek in and see how guys actually talk when they're being honest.
I truly, truly hope my STBX climbs out of his hole someday and learns to stretch himself. I loved him. There is a (big) corner of me that will always love him. We can't have a marriage together but I'd like him to find happiness too.
Yes, patience was on my list, too.
I'm going to suggest something a bit different, instead of working down the list how about, "Show me the next step"?
Does the thought make you bristle?
I'm not sure about Maybell but that makes the hair stand up on my neck.
Thanks for making me think Labug.
Sorry for butting in
I'm going to suggest something a bit different, instead of working down the list how about, "Show me the next step"?
Does the thought make you bristle?
I'm not sure about Maybell but that makes the hair stand up on my neck.
I'm at the point where I don't have much of a choice but to focus on the next step. I've lost my M, my health, my job. I could never have imagined I'd be at this point. I can't fathom what's going to happen next. But I choose to believe it's something good.
RPP, your health & job will come back. Those are things you can work for.
For myself, I feel a freedom in the loss of my M that makes me realize how far I had shrunk while in it.
Labug, I don't bristle at the idea of asking to be shown the next step. But I do fear not recognizing it.
STBX took kids to lunch for S7's birthday. They left the house happy, laughing, and playing together. Came home cheerful, but as soon as STBX left, they were at each other's throats. D11 is particularly angry. I can't do anything to soothe her. She looks so frustrated. I feel sad about that.
Related events? Maybe. Maybe not. Could be she's acting like an entitled tween. Could be there's more going on I don't know about. I wish my kids were more open.
Btw, STBX is leaving the country for 9-10 days. So it could be that too.
All three kids now completely on fire and at one anothers' throats. I'm feeling tapped. Hope the karma bus gets their dad. Nothing like acting like completely walking out on his family and behaving like an uncle to make me never want to see him again. How selfish can one person be? If there was any question in my mind that I don't need to feel badly about hiring a more aggressive lawyer tonight is solving that. I don't feel like I have enough tools in my toolbox to deal with all the emotions flooding these children.
My friend yesterday said she couldn't believe the difference in me. She said my posture and my whole demeanor has changed. I've noticed that I'm getting second glances from nice looking men -- no more feeling invisible. I met someone at church last weekend who is single and seems nice. I absolutely do NOT want a relationship or even truly to date (with all the expectations that "dating" comes with) but I'm up for making a new friend who has similar interests to mine. We'll see what happens.
I think I can honestly say that I am happy.
Happy for you Maybell! I know it's not the outcome you were ultimately hoping for but love that you have arrived here. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts lately, and one discussed "focusing on the process not the outcome." Bottom line is we can't always control the outcome (ie. our H's pulling their head's out of their a$$es) but we can control how we get there! I hope whatever the outcome for my M the lighthouse guides me to happiness as it has for you!
All three kids now completely on fire and at one anothers' throats. I'm feeling tapped. Hope the karma bus gets their dad. Nothing like acting like completely walking out on his family and behaving like an uncle to make me never want to see him again. How selfish can one person be? If there was any question in my mind that I don't need to feel badly about hiring a more aggressive lawyer tonight is solving that. I don't feel like I have enough tools in my toolbox to deal with all the emotions flooding these children.
Maybell - my kids are younger and aren't reacting to the same extent that you describe, but their angst level is definitely highest right before pick up and right after drop off.
I found one thing out accidentally that has helped. This quarter STBX is working a schedule where his visitation with D6 usually ends on Friday - which happens to be a day she has a lot of extracurricular activities (singing lessons and church youth group). Having something else to immediately occupy her mind seems to have helped. I know your H probably sees them more on the weekend so you might not have that opportunty, but thought I would mention in case its helpful.
Thanks, raliced.
I try to but it isn't always possible. I don't know if the craziness was related to spending time with H, with the fact that he's traveling for 9-10 days and they won't see him (or likely hear from him either, except maybe a text here and there), or if it was something else entirely. But it was exhausting to deal with and I really wished I had a stand-up partner who could relieve me so I had a breather to regroup and figure out a strategy for dealing with it all.
I ended up calling them all up to sit quietly with me at the kitchen table for three minutes (total silence, for three continuous minutes) and then we had a family meeting about the need for respect among one another.
Today, they were AMAZING. And also I feel loved and confident and happy.
All will be well, and all will be well, and all manner of things will be well.
Wow! I love how you centered your kids, Maybell!
That was amazing! Yes, we'd all love a partner who can tag in when we need a second to regroup and strategize but we don't, just as you showed, there are other options. It IS ok to step out, breathe for a second and tag back in on your own and it looks like you did just that.
Amazing.
You are the comforting force that brings your children peace. Know that.
(((hugs)))
I feel a freedom in the loss of my M that makes me realize how far I had shrunk while in it.
Hope the karma bus gets their dad. Nothing like acting like completely walking out on his family and behaving like an uncle to make me never want to see him again. How selfish can one person be? If there was any question in my mind that I don't need to feel badly about hiring a more aggressive lawyer tonight is solving that.
Two quotes. One liberating, full of promise. The other, not so much.
Invest your energy where there is return. Will it really help you if he's run over by the karma bus?
Zew, no. I was just venting during a moment of stress. Not my best self.
Will it really help you if he's run over by the karma bus?
No, but it was amusing
Come on folks we all have fantasies of dozens of different Karma's running them over.
It's funny and I doubt any of us act on them nor do they come true.
They are a good way to divert, the wanting to do something into nothing.
Sorry, I didn't mean to admonish. Let me add some color.
I'm leery of the karma bus right now. I have a feeling it's going to leave a nasty accident scene. Not knowing yet how custody will work out, my kids have a pretty good chance of being in the car at the time.
So I'm kinda hoping W takes a safe driving course and figures out a way to stay safe.
I've found that wanting her to find a safe way through this mess has helped my attitude as well. I don't need her to fail for me to succeed. I need her to be a good co-parent, and that's it. Karma's going to mess with that.
So I put Karma in the same category as Grim Reaper. Inevitable, and not something to fear, but not a welcome house guest either.
Ooo this post is a downer! I promise to be more upbeat next time.
Maybell,
I love hearing your updates. They are fun and witty and honest. I have to admit, when you mentioned the kids at each others' throats, part of me can see that they are siblings. Yes, they have some additional stuff they're dealing with, but really, not so different than anybody else? I know that my siblings and I were definitely at each others' throats. It always amazes me that we wound up friends as adults.
I think you *will* recognize the "show me" thing. Trust yourself. Some things you just know when you see them. I love this concept. It's like watching an eager student willing to learn algebra. They relish the act of learning something new. Again, trust yourself.
And I know you mentioned venting. So I'm not challenging you here. Just piggy backing Zew's astute observations.
If you consider the karma bus as natural consequences, they will be present naturally - without any intervention or desire from us. Besides, I wouldn't want my kids to know that I wished harm on their dad. He was good enough for me to marry and parent with, so why does that change?
I knew the consequences of his leaving and our subsequent divorce. He moved into a house of his own. As my D20 has said all along, "Dad, my home is where mom is. Your house is where I stay when I'm not at home." THAT commentary was her truth, it was said without any anger or bitterness, and it hit him in the solar plexus about as hard as anything I've ever seen. THAT was his karma bus. And I will be honest. It was extremely painful for me to watch it hit him. I loved that man and was married to him for 15 years. Although I knew this and our MC told him this, he seemed as stunned as someone who never thought about it.
I'm leery of the karma bus right now. I have a feeling it's going to leave a nasty accident scene. Not knowing yet how custody will work out, my kids have a pretty good chance of being in the car at the time.
Smart man, Lew. They have more than a good chance of being on that bus. She's the only mom they know and have. They love her because of that. It's their pain to watch their mom experience pain and suffering.
And I so LOVE this. Love, love!
I don't need her to fail for me to succeed. I need her to be a good co-parent, and that's it.
It's not a downer, Zew. Really. Because watching someone else experience their own personal train wreck - particularly the other parent of the children you both love - is extraordinarily painful. If you're judgmental, you probably think they deserve it. But if you're honest, you admit that you're human too. I know I did.
The true spirit of karma is to do no harm. It especially applies to our thoughts. A Buddhist friend of mine told me way before my own marital breakdown that their choice of action is to pray for those who hurt us - for 30 consecutive days. Apparently, it's really hard to despise or hate someone you pray for. I've not had to do that, but I think it's probably right.
I also promise you I'm not on the civil rights bus for the WAS today! Really! But somehow, in my past when I've wished someone to stumble, it might happen, but I almost always find myself getting to stumble too. I don't like backfiring! I don't need to create more inner work than I already have!
Now, back to our discussion already in progress...
Betsey
^^^^^^^^^
OK, so I said what I said in GREAT FRUSTRATION because it feels so profoundly unfair to me that my STBX could just walk away from his parental responsibilities and leave me holding the bag. I felt like HIS karma bus had hit ME.
Of course I don't wish harm to him. I have, for the record, wished for wellness and peace for him every single day that I've written in my prayer journal. I did marry him, I do still love him, and I always will. But I am NOT HAPPY with having no back up or support on the days when the kids are riding my last nerve. Especially when that's a day that they were playing beautifully together, then went to lunch with him, then came home screaming and fighting.
FWIW, I think the karma bus HAS hit him -- because he's lost me and 80% of his kids -- he just doesn't realize yet what he's lost.
OK, so I said what I said in GREAT FRUSTRATION because it feels so profoundly unfair to me that my STBX could just walk away from his parental responsibilities and leave me holding the bag. I felt like HIS karma bus had hit ME.
Many of us can relate to the sense of unfairness. The common thread seems to be that WAS get to have all the fun and we get all the pain. No need to take care of the kids, to repair a M, but probably romance and... Well, no need to twist the knife. I went so far as wondering why is it that not everybody becomes a WAS. it seems so great. I find myself finding peace in two things: karma never forgets about you and I shouldn't compare anyway.
In your case, one would hope that ultimately you'll have a richer R with your kids, which is a win for you. But I get your point loud and clear.
OK, so I said what I said in GREAT FRUSTRATION because it feels so profoundly unfair to me that my STBX could just walk away from his parental responsibilities and leave me holding the bag. I felt like HIS karma bus had hit ME.
FWIW, I think the karma bus HAS hit him -- because he's lost me and 80% of his kids -- he just doesn't realize yet what he's lost.
Life is not fair....blech! I totally understand where you're coming from. My H is in lots of pain because of his back and sometimes I think "karma's a b!" Of course I don't really want him in pain.
It's going to vent here Maybell just as long as it's a vent and not a real thought
im sure we have all had thoughts like that on a down day ( I know I have)
You're doing amazing and your kids are lucky to have you. Your H is the one missing out. Maybe he will see that one day maybe he won't ... But that's up to him to figure out.
Keep being fabulous
Hi Maybell, you are doing so well and are so strong.
I just wanted to remark on your comment a ways back about how people are saying you look good and your posture is better and that you have changed. I am getting the same comments from my friends. One said "you are glowing" and several have said that I look better and seem a thousand times happier (than before BD). That I seem like I am "doing great" and "this has obviously been a good thing for you".
I think that is telling.
To be honest, half of the time I feel sad. I guess I am hiding that pretty well if people are telling me I seem so great. But what it does really show me is that if we appear to be doing so much better and our demeanors have changed then something has happened /is happening inside us that people can actually see! Some days we feel good and some bad but we are doing better than before BD if I am to believe what people are telling me!
Food for thought. Onwards.
Hugs, Lisa
Hope you're doing well and your being absent from the boards for a few days is because you are having a fabulous time GALing!
The true spirit of karma is to do no harm. It especially applies to our thoughts. A Buddhist friend of mine told me way before my own marital breakdown that their choice of action is to pray for those who hurt us - for 30 consecutive days. Apparently, it's really hard to despise or hate someone you pray for. I've not had to do that, but I think it's probably right.
Betsey, in what manner do Buddhists pray? Do you know? Did your friend say? I like this approach, it's very loving.
I suppose, in a way, it does really matter, especially as I'm an atheist anyway. I'd just wish for strength, wisdom, love and an open mind ... for both of us.
(Not so) Old Dog xx
Old Dog, you sit and meditate for a bit to settle your mind, then you picture the person and imagine blessings as colored light flowing into their heart, and darkness coming out of them. Measure it with your breaths.
You can do this for yourself as well. I find it very calming. White light into my heart, darkness out of the crown of my head.
Nothing to report here. S8 is about to be S9. Kids have not had the sort of giant meltdowns they had when I was last here. H has called twice for about ten minutes for the 3 kids.
I would like to date very lightly. Just go GAL with someone I don't really know so I can get to know a new person. Not talk about my sitch but just go enjoy time together. Not form a major relationship but just have fun and learn new things from a new person.
The house I was interested in sold so God made that door close.
there's absolutely NOTHING to rent around here and the more affordable houses are in a different school zone from what my kids are in. Oddly enough, the less expensive houses are assigned to the better schools, so it's tempting to consider changing, but I'm really worried about taking my kids away from their friends and myself away from the support network I built before I went back to work. Also my childcare situation is about to get complicated...
Im working to trust that my path will be made clear for me because so far it has been. It's a challenge to have faith at the moment because so much is unsettled and I really want to move forward in the life I choose for myself, rather than cleaning up the messes left by STBX's choices in our marriage. All will be well.
Also, I broke my 2nd toe and it hurts even to put my slippers on, so the exercise I intended to get this weekend is in question. This too shall pass.
In 6-8 months I will have lived through all this. All the drama will be settled and I'll be figuring out what goals I want to set myself to keep growing. It will be interesting to see how that all works out.
Hey Maybell - You don't have to sort your living situation out until the spring, right?
I think rentals are just like sale houses, more of them pop up at that time of year when the kids are done with school - so I bet you'll have more choice soon.
I remeber the to-do list was a little intimidating at the beginning but you'll cip away at it. Any luck finding a good lawyer?
Thanks Maybell. Perhaps it will help me get over my bad patch.
Sorry to hear about your toe. Have had to have plastered up?
Raliced, I don't have to sort my housing till spring... But spring starts in six weeks. And our school area is really small, so even if things open up we're only talking fewer than five houses available on average for sale OR rent, and most of them either affordable but too small, or right sized but too expensive. And I do NOT want to live in a house that is being prepared for sale.
I found a good lawyer but the appointment is still ten days away. I'm using that time to comb through the finances to really understand my expenses. Also will be speaking to a financial advisor to help me with the rent vs. buy decision (and a few other things). I'm leaning towards buy because I really need the tax deduction, and because it's very possible a mortgage payment could be significantly less than the rent, depending on what and where I buy. Also, I lean emotionally towards buying as a means of calming my anxiety about how unstable my living conditions have been for the last 18 years. As head of my own household I would be able to relax into keeping my home for as long as I want it, rather than only as long as my STBX enjoys his job.
I do worry about moving my kids' school at this stage in our lives. Anyone have input on that?
I'll let others comment on moving the kids to different schools. I'm sure someone has gone throught it. Since the geographic area you're describing is pretty small - have you explored if they would still let you go to your current school?
I live in an area with a crazy patchwork of tiny school districts. Technically D6 is supposed to be going to a different school, but since I commute through town they let me go into that district - pretty loosey goosey with the rules.
The mortgage interest is huge. Not only do I get to take the decuction - but in conjunction with a single income it knocked me down into the 15% bracket.
You sound great Maybell!
They could do "out of area" -- but that feels crazy given that I would not be driving past the schools they currently attend, the schools that WOULD be in our area are much better and potentially even walking distance, and the kids in the neighborhood would be attending those schools, so doing out of area would make it harder for my kids to make friends with the neighbors and curtail the "free-range" independence I want to foster since they'd become car/mom reliant to maintain their social lives. I'm talking about moving 10-15 blocks away from my current house, so we wouldn't lose touch with these people... Just wouldn't see them daily.
Maybell, my kids all went to the same elementary school, up through grade 5. The older two then went to a school that about 1/3rd of their elementary classmates also went to, and then they knew a few kids from community sports leagues, too. The interesting part is that it's mostly the new kids they met in middle school that are still their friends, not necessarily the ones they knew when they were three. D12 went into a middle school not knowing anyone at all. But she's made friends quickly, and today they are in my kitchen making chocolate chip pancakes. Point is, most kids can pretty easily make new friends, and if you are aware of it, you can help the process along.
Honestly, I wouldn't be too concerned about the school change for your boys. We moved by choice when my son was going into 5th grade and he adjusted fine...don't get me wrong he had issues but he had issues before the move! LOL
We also changed my youngest daughters elementary school when we bought our home and she was going into 2nd grade with no problems.
I know you were having some issues with D11 so I think a school change for her may be more difficult. Is she in middle school?
I'm not sure what your area is like. Here we have 3 (public) elementary schools and they feed into mostly one middle school and high school. Extra curricular activities include kids from all of the schools so they knew kids even if they didn't go to school with them.
I have a couple of different thoughts as far as timing of the school change. I think changing schools in the middle of the year is definitely more difficult than starting new at the beginning of the year, you may want to consider letting them finish out the school year where they are even though that may be a logistical nightmare for you. On the flip side, if you are moving into a new district, new neighborhood changing school mid-year will give them an opportunity to meet new friends in the new neighborhood before summer.
Maybe including D11 in that decision once you figure out where you will be moving will make the adjustment easier for her...just a thought.
You do sound great!
Someone at church is interested in me.
He zeroed in on what is important to me, shared that he has a similar interest, and said, "I'd like to talk more about that with you sometime."
This is something important to me that STBX NEVER wanted to be bothered with. Not even in the early days (can we say red flag?)
I left today grinning like a fool. Like a teenager.
This evening the top of my back, neck, and shoulders hurt so much I can hardly move. I'm scared this nice man has an ulterior motive. That I'm not as attractive or interesting to him as I think I might be. That my shoulders hurt because I'm anxious, or that they hurt because I'm relieving long-held tension.
This is probably the wrong place to write about this, but I'm not sure what else to do with it. I'm interested in knowing him but not as ready as I thought to date.
I think it will keep. No rush.
Maybell, I think that's great. You may ultimately decide that you are not in fact ready to date and that's ok. But isn't it nice to have choices?
I am really struggling with wanting to date right now. I don't think its a good idea, but it would be a real ego boost to have someone interested in me. Not gonna lie, that would be fun.
It's a nice feeling. And interesting because of how different it feels. And he's a bit older than me, but recommended by longstanding friends.
Downside: same first name as STBX.
!!!!!!
My brother dated 3 girls with the same first name (over several years). Finally married one. He tends to see things optimistically: As he would say, "at least you won't call him the wrong name accidentally!"
Props to both of you for being open to the idea. Seriously.
For the past 10 years, I've just been in the habit of thinking that some men I met were attractive, but I never saw them as
possibilities. And I can't seem to pivot away from that, despite the fact that I seem to be giving off some sort of "available scent" and am getting all kinds of unexpected attention.
Today D6, had a ton of questions on the topic of Stepmoms and Stepdads, and I almost promised her she didn't have to worry about a Stepdad.
Maybell- my sister had a youthful marriage that ended after a year. Both her current husband and the first one had the same first name
The current one is a good egg - glad the name thing didn't scare her off.
I'm really interested in anyone on this board getting onto the dating scene, to see what the impact will be. Make that a vote in favor of this man from church.
Am I the only one who tends to imagine how a potential date gets angry? If I see a woman that's pretty, I almost immediately imagine us arguing. It seems to be a byproduct of constantly repeating that the limerence wears off, that infatuation is just a few months long, that everyone becomes boring and annoying to an extent, etc. I'm ruining my own future love life.
Laughing, Mozza!!!
No, I don't imagine arguing. I imagine me overestimating his interest in me. Or being overly pushy.
In short, I fear all the things I think I may have done wrong before.
It's been 19 years since I dated someone other than STBX and none of those guys were interesting -- just looked good on paper. This one MAY be interesting, if the fear doesn't kill me.
Incidentally, one of my good friends divorced a man and married another one in the same year. They shared a first name. She differentiates them by referring to H1 as The Devil.
No, I don't imagine arguing. I imagine me overestimating his interest in me. Or being overly pushy. .
This ^^^^^ sigh...
Incidentally, one of my good friends divorced a man and married another one in the same year. They shared a first name. She differentiates them by referring to H1 as The Devil.
I'm so afraid my WAW gave me such a nickname... The H from Hell? The Criticator? I mean: have you ever met the wrong end of a D? It seems that the other person was always wrong and that we're lucky to meet "the victim". I'm more skeptical since my sitch.
Oh yes, I've met the wrong end of a D. I'm friends with a couple splitting up where BOTH of them are the wrong end (he was Captain Grabby Hands from Thanksgiving). I've had long talks with both of them about what went wrong. Both of them are too hurt and angry to try to make it right. They both admit it, too.
One of my new single woman friends is a WAW whose husband already has a hot Brazilian girlfriend -- and my acquaintance is the OW in another man's divorce. She admits things are messy. She just didn't know what else to do.
I knew a couple where the wife was miserable because her H WOULD NOT pull his weight on caring for the child -- even though they both worked full time. We all felt so sorry for her. Her evenings were always cut short. They divorced and she went back to her home church, so we were left with him, and within four months I heard him sighing and saying EXACTLY what he'd done wrong to lose her (and became eventually the best dad we knew).
In my friend's case, H1 was abusive and even the MC told her it would be better to be homeless than to stay even one more night with him.
At the end of the day, we can't control what others say of us. We can only live up to our best selves and work to make THAT the truth.
Btw, I should say... In my first instance, I think the H is most wrong, but W has chosen to deal with it really badly and now they're both a mess. In the second, this woman has a LOT of esteem issues. No apparent motivation to use a lot of her available resources. Maybe she couldn't have made her M work, but if she were healthier she didn't need to have taken another family down with hers.
I read this today and wanted to share it because it expresses the core of what I've learned here:
I don't want to wax too poetic, but I have really been struck by something which the famous psychologist Erik Erikson said. At some point you realize that you're given this one chance -- he words it this way -- ‘this one chance in all of eternity to enact an identity and to play it out in the real world.’
Towards the end of life, what's really important to people is to be able to see how their life mattered, how it was meaningful, how there was a story to it that wraps up in a good way.
People who are able to create that kind of narrative, and think of their life in that way, are typically happier. They're more generative. They're much more serene and open to the end of life. So that is really good work for people to do. Writing about it is something that a number of my interviewees did. Often my best interviewees were people who had done some writing of memoirs.
Reality of single parenting is slapping me around today.
Am I the only one who tends to imagine how a potential date gets angry? If I see a woman that's pretty, I almost immediately imagine us arguing. It seems to be a byproduct of constantly repeating that the limerence wears off, that infatuation is just a few months long, that everyone becomes boring and annoying to an extent, etc. I'm ruining my own future love life.
OMG, this is so damn neurotic I laughed out loud! Thanks for that! On a serious note, it's kind of a harmful exercise... not to mention unfair. But gotta tell you, 13 years later and I'm still not a good dater. I find I'm getting pickier with each passing year...
Maybell, your thread always makes me think. I thank you for that. No matter how this plays out, I think you're a good mom and you're going to be a lot happier and more successful than your wildest imagination takes you. You've got it going on, woman.
To back up all the others' commentaries about moving and schools, I'll inject my own opinions. Go grab that glass of wine now. Then when you wince, you'll have some alcohol in your system already.
I say this with the caveat that I didn't move. I was one of the weird ones who wanted my XH to take the house and ME to move. I'd have done something within the school district, because we moved there for that very reason. Right before Mr. Wonderful dropped the bomb, I had moved then D8 from Catholic school to public school for 3rd grade. Her sister was a lock for special ed and I couldn't have them on 2 different breaks. So we compromised by open enrolling her in the school closest to us (within walking distance) that wasn't home school where D17 went at the time. It was an adjustment for both of us. I know you won't be surprised that it was harder for me than her. She met some girls in the neighborhood that took her under their wings, joined girl scouts and softball and off she went.
As they traveled off to middle school, she kept some of them and made new friends. By the time she got to high school, there were more new friends and less old ones. They grew out of each other through natural attrition - sports, etc. Her high school BFF (and still is her BFF today) is someone she didn't know before they got to HS.
If I had to move--and I really prepared myself for this outcome--I told the girls that we'd make a new move an adventure. We'd all get to make new friends and do something new. My D17 was the baby and was very happy doing whatever we were doing, especially if D20 and I were embracing it. I had D20's full support. And funny thing about my D20 - she hates routines that resemble ruts. She always has and probably always will. I'll have to tell you about her middle and high school lunch routines some time. They gave ME anxiety. But they made her happy. My 2 little Pisces girls - the oldest craves change. Me? Not so much. Especially if there's the risk of any pain. You will not find me in that room embracing it by itself. I've had to learn to walk in that room. Hug it? Nope. Color me the skeptic. Show me it's good for me, and then I'll do it. Which is probably why I got where I went, right?
Through this diatribe I'm just trying to advise one course of action (which is why I wanted you to get the wine first): one day at a time, baby. Two days from now won't happen sooner than tomorrow. So live today first.
And hugs for being a single mom. When my girls were your kids' ages, there were days that I thought I could jump out a window or slit my wrists. Some of those days were strung together consecutively. (Talk to me when your D turns 16. Then I can promise you nearly 2 years of days strung together.) But 80% of the time, I felt competent and capable. I finally fell out of that rabbit hole and I'm not a dead rabbit... I actually did a pretty good job. Something tells me you're of that same stock, Maybell. The trick is to take a swig of wine and then jump! Not the other way around...
Hi Maybell,
Interesting tidbit about the man from church who is interested in you. And I had to laugh when I read what Mozza said! I had a similar situation this week, a very handsome man hit on me and I felt major butterflies and then immediately started having negative thoughts about his intentions and fears about future issues. Probably these fears show we are not ready to date but maybe we also need to try jumping into the pool (cautiously) to see what happens.
Hugs, Lisa
Betsey, I don't know why you thought I needed a glass of wine to get your bop on the head down. It was gentle, kind, and exactly right. Things have a way of working out. I'm supposed to be practicing patience.
I do worry about all the upheaval. If I move their schools then S9 will have been in one school for kindergarten and part of first, a second for part of first, all of second, and third, and then a third school for fourth and fifth. That's the sort of disruption I worry about. But maybe something in our area will open up.
I chatted a bit via text tonight with the church fella. We have dovetailing interests. At minimum he will make a pleasant friend. But I have a lot of fish in the fryer. Slow is the name of the game. I do kind of hope he asks me to lunch on Sunday though.
I do kind of hope he asks me to lunch on Sunday though.
Why not "I do kind of plan on asking him to lunch on Sunday"?
Hi Maybell, what a perfect way to meet someone. I think if this man is truly keen on you ( and it sure sounds like he is! ) he will respect your need to take it slow. a part of me wants to date and a part of me doesn't so I can relate to how you feel.
I admire the way you are with your kids. Mine all used to drive each other crazy too. Now as adults they are the best of friends.
Stress level through the roof. Missing ANOTHER day of work due to snow (at least I have stuff I can do from home and demonstrate that I'm not just sacking out) and STBX is out of town. He has seen the kids for about 2 hours in the last three weeks but is texting D11 regularly. It's hard not to want to kick him. I've missed a lot of work while trying to do this single mom thing with NO help from him and I'm just lucky my employer is so understanding. Can't wait for spring when we'll get on a more regular schedule.
Did I mention that my regular babysitter is a month out from quitting so she can go back to sports? So I have to find someone quickly. My leads are THIN.
Old lawyer just emailed asking about my status. Appt with new lawyer on Monday. I'm sick of all this and can't wait for life to become more normalized.
I'm such a catch right now. Sigh.
LOL, I suggested the wine because I was all over the place. Too much catching up to do, you know?
Missing ANOTHER day of work due to snow (at least I have stuff I can do from home and demonstrate that I'm not just sacking out) and STBX is out of town. He has seen the kids for about 2 hours in the last three weeks but is texting D11 regularly. It's hard not to want to kick him.
Oh, yes, Maybell, I remember these days not so fondly. And my memories are looking through the rear view mirror. Pat yourself on the back and find something to amuse yourself today. Read a novel?
Back in March 2003, we got the mother of all snow storms the week before spring break. I had 33 inches at my house... it was awful. Here in Colorado, they don't close schools for snow much. Occasionally, we get a late start - which amounts 1 one lousy hour for elementary and middle school kids and 30 minutes for high school. (WTF?) Anyway, they closed school the entire week, and I couldn't make it to work even if I wanted to brave it. My girls were wrapped around the flag pole, and with each passing day, their behaviors deteriorated. I tried to add to my usual arsenal of snow day fun things - baking cookies, watching movies, staying in our PJs, but that only worked for the first couple of days. Then the sh!t hit the fan--we lost power. I was ready to tear my hair out. I also have a 3 car garage - translate to 3 car driveway. I tried like hell to manage the nonstop snow with little success. My 3 month old Golden was also insane. Every shovel full of snow, I cussed out my XH. While I was dealing with a house full of insanity, HE was at his apartment... holed up, reading his stack of books that he meant to read and just loving life.
I'm not going to offer the narrative of how unfair I felt it was, because much of it was just a resentful rant. I was entitled to some of it, but most of it was due to the fact that I was overwhelmed. It really felt like the inmates were running the prison. I think I had a lot of help digging out so I could drive to work for a little while that Friday, and I made those little biatches go with me. Oddly enough, it helped. :-) My then D9 was so happy to have 2 consecutive weeks of "sleep in days". All I can remember - to this day - is thinking I was slipping into insanity.
We never had that kind of storm again. If we do now, it's just me and D17 and we'll watch movies and read and do puzzles happily. Hang in there!
BTW, my boss was also very patient and understanding. I really appreciated him for that.
Did I mention that my regular babysitter is a month out from quitting so she can go back to sports? So I have to find someone quickly. My leads are THIN.
Just remember that when one door closes, another one opens. It's *always* worked out for me, and I have a special needs kid. Trust that, Maybell.
On that note, have you checked with your school and asked around to any teacher aides or paraprofessionals who might need some extra money after school? I have always found those people are underpaid and want a little bit more to make their career choice work for them.
Hugs and good luck!
Betsey
p.s. I'm happy to report that here in Denver, it was 70 yesterday and supposed to go to 74 today. Yippee! But I'm not gloating... winter is coming back for the weekend. Snow and cold in the forecast.
D11 on the warpath again. I'm trying so hard to be patient and she is just being intentionally HORRIBLE. I don't know how to cope while I'm trying (not very successfully) to work from home and field her disrespect and anger. She would be fine if she could just go outside but I can't let her treat me this way.
God give me strength and patience and creativity and calm. She is so disruptive.
She seems to need to go outside to play at her friend's house but she is SCREAMING at me and I don't want to let her leave the property while she's being disrespectful.
I hate when things get so horrible like this. She finally came out and said that she's angry because I have to work from home and can't take them out on their new sleds. She hates that I'm working and don't have as much time for them as I used to.
I don't blame her for any of that. I'm doing the best that I can but it's not anything like what it used to be. I hate how they've changed too and it is so frustrating to not be able to explain it all. She wants to redecorate her room and can't understand why I won't plan that with her (kids don't know about divorce and move yet).
I am so angry with STBX when I have to deal with this stuff by myself. I want to hate him and also I want to just not care AT ALL about him but I resent like I can't even express how ANGRY I am with him for being such a cr@ppy dad and for leaving us like this. And now he's just sent me an email asking if I planned the boys' birthday parties and I want to kick him in the shins and say a half decent dad wouldn't delegate EVERY STINKING THING about his kids' birthdays to the other parent. He didn't even write "Love" on the gift tags for their birthday presents. He put "from Dad" on the electronic ticket.
I feel sad for my D11. I want her to have what she wants and sometimes I worry that I'm overparenting her because I don't want her to turn out to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic jerk like her dad. But she can't scream at me like she does either. I don't know how to find the balance at times like this.
And welcome back, Labug, I hope you're OK.
Maybell - When it rains it pours.
I just wanted to let you know that in my experience - yes stuff seems to hit all at once (Lawyers need stuff, kids get sick or upset, work explodes, school projects are due, extracurricular activities ramp up).
I'm a few months ahead of you (in terms of the actual divorce) and I can tell you there are a few moments here and there where I feel all caught up and at peace. Fleeting and far between - but they do happen.
And you sound like a much more organized person than me - those days will come for you too!
I don't know why people have such a high opinion of me around here. Sometimes I have wins, but I don't feel like a person who is anything out of the ordinary. D11 got to go outside but it didn't help her demeanor very much. I'm not at all on top of things -- haven't checked the kids' homework in a few weeks, I'm sure their grades are drooping.
Someday I'll get my feet under me. I just hope I still have three kids at home when that happens.
don't know why people have such a high opinion of me around here. Sometimes I have wins, but I don't feel like a person who is anything out of the ordinary.
Because you're blissfully honest about things, Maybell. I personally find honestly flawed people endearing. That's why.
Someday I'll get my feet under me. I just hope I still have three kids at home when that happens.
Snicker, snicker. We're *all* works in progress, Maybell. Some day you'll look back and realize you have a lot more grounding than you currently think you have. We grow up with our kids. And sometimes our kids are the teachers and we're the students. Actually, I think that's more the rule than the exception.
Don't be surprised if they remember your parenting differently. My D20 sees that week long snow vacation just that through HER rear view mirror. She remembers it FONDLY. I remember it as a horrible prison sentence. Somewhere in the middle is the absolute truth.
Lol. D11 said yesterday that I constantly criticize her. I see it completely differently: I'm cheering her on all the time. She freaks out about a B; I say, well, I'm sure you know how to do better. My mother constantly criticized. She said, "You always come so close but then you never make it." I feel like I parent so differently. But it's making me aware of how she hears me and I'm going to try to pay closer attention to that now that I've heard her say it.
I have a memory like your D20's -- home with flu and chicken pox for a little over a week when I was 10. That was a very peaceful week that I spent in bed reading, when I fell in love with Jane Austen and Charlotte Bronte. My mother remembers it as a HORRIBLE week (my little brothers were sick then too). Funny how perspective works.
LOL....
Back to your D's perspective about criticism... maybe you could just tweak your words, though they mean the same thing?
She freaks out about a B; I say, well, I'm sure you know how to do better. My mother constantly criticized. She said, "You always come so close but then you never make it."
I had issues with these types of semantics too. I'm laughing because my D20 is a whole lot like your 11 year old. So this is what I'd say back to her (and meant every word):
"Sweetie, I'm sorry you're so bothered by this. But you make really good decisions. I know you'll make a good decision about this."
I think that might be the way you can nail it rather than get close and not make it?
It gets harder, Maybell.
At 15, she'd come to me with problems or vents and even those words pissed her off. So I'd flat out ask her, "Do you need to vent and me to listen or are you wanting advice?" Oh yes, she knew what she wanted and wasn't afraid to tell me. In fact, we *still* communicate this way now. She'll call me from school and now just say, "God, I need to vent. And I need to have you be the person who has to hear this. Okay?" I can only smile inside and say, "Okay".
But it's making me aware of how she hears me and I'm going to try to pay closer attention to that now that I've heard her say it.
This is why I like you, Maybell.
This is all we can ask of ourselves. In many, many ways, THEY are the teachers and we are the students.
For the record, my mom--to this day--still feels the need to help me fix my vents. It's frustrating.
I hate when things get so horrible like this. She finally came out and said that she's angry because I have to work from home and can't take them out on their new sleds. She hates that I'm working and don't have as much time for them as I used to.
I don't blame her for any of that. I'm doing the best that I can but it's not anything like what it used to be. I hate how they've changed too and it is so frustrating to not be able to explain it all. She wants to redecorate her room and can't understand why I won't plan that with her (kids don't know about divorce and move yet).
I am so angry with STBX when I have to deal with this stuff by myself. I want to hate him and also I want to just not care AT ALL about him but I resent like I can't even express how ANGRY I am with him for being such a cr@ppy dad and for leaving us like this. And now he's just sent me an email asking if I planned the boys' birthday parties and I want to kick him in the shins and say a half decent dad wouldn't delegate EVERY STINKING THING about his kids' birthdays to the other parent. He didn't even write "Love" on the gift tags for their birthday presents. He put "from Dad" on the electronic ticket.
I feel sad for my D11. I want her to have what she wants and sometimes I worry that I'm overparenting her because I don't want her to turn out to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic jerk like her dad. But she can't scream at me like she does either. I don't know how to find the balance at times like this.
So what do you need when you have emotional outbursts when you can't have what you want? (not picking on you, we all have then and many of us learn to shut down those feelings, unable to articulate them or out needs and end up in crappy R down the road)
Just a caution, take a inventory of what you're feeling when she does this and try not to react based on whatever that is. See where you are and separate that from her, then try to help her.
If you do scream and yell at H, what will change? I'm not saying you shouldn't, just what do you want it to do for you and what are the chances that it will help?
What if you told him exactly what you feel, without the anger?
Are you afraid of that conversation and if so, why?
In many, many ways, THEY are the teachers and we are the students.
So, so true.
If we can only be open to their teaching.
I don't yell at STBX (anymore). Besides being disrespectful and not who I want to be, he doesn't care and won't respond.
Half an hour ago I let D11 get a limited social media account to communicate with out of state friends and relatives. I didn't discuss it with STBX. it didn't occur to me. (I don't think this is ok, but it does show how little he is involved)
Five minutes later I got a text from him confirming I'd gotten her the account. I apologized for not discussing and he said it was fine. We briefly discussed logistics and then he was done.
He didn't ask how the kids were.
He didn't ask to talk to the kids (he talked to S9 for a minute on his birthday, otherwise hasn't talked to them since Friday morning)
He was careful to tell me he has work dinners all week so he won't take them midweek like he's supposed to.
I asked him to take the next snow day, he pushed back a little but gave in.
I would be really stupid to rely on him for anything beyond money once the D is done.
What did I ever see in him?
What did I ever see in him?
My (Freudian) IC told me that we get with people for two reasons. First is that they share certain flaws with us and so they will not confront us to them. For instance, a smoker might be with a smoker, a homebody with another one, etc. The second reason is that we see these people as helpful in getting us to a place where we want to be. It might be a traveler if we want to travel, a sophisticated person if that's what we aspire to, etc.
I thought I'd throw it out there.
He sounds pretty broken. Your kids are so lucky to have you.
I feel like I read somewhere (maybe here? Or maybe my IC said it) that we might be attracted to the "wrong" people because their wrongness is familiar somehow (like...I wasn't imagining it when I thought my H was acting like my dad). We seek an opportunity to "fix" the dysfunction of our past...or at the very least it is what we are used to so it feels "right".
Food for thought. Definitely makes sense in my aitch.
Well the church fella acted exactly the opposite, so we'll see what happens there. Hopefully I've learned a thing or two.
Gooooo mayb,
I have a few choices but I'm not sure who might be a good fit.
Claire,
Our MC said the same thing to us, and in my case, it was 100% correct. And it blew up. I don't know if I'd use the term "wrong" but perhaps people with issues where we need a lot of work. My mom is really controlling (lots of fear, which originated in childhood), and my dad is pretty passive aggressive (had a lot of issues with his dad in childhood). No surprise I became controlling and married someone with P/A issues.
I think you're right in that it feels comfortable to us. It's a pattern we know well, even if it svcks and we know it svcks. The real problem is that our filter is skewed, if not broken. It's tough to rebuild, but not impossible.
In some cases, we need to learn how to own our stuff without blaming others and taking responsible for how we feel. For me, that seemed to take more than 4 decades.
For anyone entering the dating scene, or soon to be...
I have been somewhat actively dating and it is a whole new experience. It is a great way to GAL, its wonderful for the ego, its amazing to get to know other people.
One word of caution: Make sure you are very clear about who you are interacting with. A lot of WAWs tendencies are still in my head and I have to be very careful that I don't project those onto the person I am with. Many times I have caught myself jumping to conclusions because I was so accustomed to interacting with WAW.
I am enjoying the good experiences, laughing at the bad ones, and looking forward to the next one.
Such a weird night.
I go to Scouts to drop off papers and find that one of the most helpful, committed dads there has just been gutted by his wife, I listen to his story for an HOUR. STBX is there with my kids and it's weird. I feel awful for the guy. And sad and disappointed -- his wife was someone I liked. And I'm listening and doing my best to offer support and at the same time thinking, "my God, this was me except I held it in and kept it secret while making multiple family visits, hosting visitors, parties, unpacking the house, volunteering for PTA, etc., for SIX MONTHS. HOW did I do that?" I feel awful for him and his boys.
And then church fella texts me and we have even more overlapping interests and I'm excited but also worried it's a bit of a set up at the same time.
And then I go to a wine party and hang out with a ton of friends. I had a great time and it was liberating to be out for the first time in more than a month. One is a realtor so I talked to her about listings, down payments, location, etc., and I feel much better. She is signing me up for an early warning system and that will help. I think I need to lower my expectations about timing. It's good to know that.
It's time to let go and let God. He's led me right so far and the right things will happen if I don't get in my own way. SUCH a strange evening.
Hugs to all you people, especially tonight the ones who are new to their sitches and feeling most raw. I'm saying prayers for serenity for you all tonight.
Maybell, you did hold it together and were mighty for a long time. I think you're smart to be cautious about church guy. He is in a vulnerable place and primed for a rebound relationship to diminish his pain. Just take it slow and see where it goes. It's sad how common these stories are. Sometimes I fear I will never be able to fully trust in a relationship again. For me, I though marriage was marriage, and I would never betray that vow. It's been an earth-shattering realization to find out that this wasn't true for my H.
Anyway, I'm glad you see possibilities with someone else -- honestly the only people I would be interested in right now would be widowers and other chumps.
Yeap, I kept it in too!
Took me 3 month to tell my bestie, but h had already told her. He told her it was an amicable split, he neglected to mention the ow!
She thought I was nuts holding out hope, althought she thought like I did ow was recent and given h penny pinching nature ow would prove to far away and too expensive to keep seeing. Seems not, seems she is soul mate material! Lol
Poor cow, knowing what I suffered and hearing what I hear from others ow is getting treated the exact same, poor cow.
What I'm saying in a long story is look out for mayb, no one else will and you don't know what the church guy is really like. He might be great he might be right for now, but won't be mr long term.
We don't know what is around that next bend in the tunnel It's could be a bus or train instead of a light. Lol it could be bringing great stuff for you.
Ahoy, church fella is not the same as the guy I listened to for an hour last night. Church fella divorced 5 years ago and seems to be in a great place, judging from what our several mutual friends tell me.
Yes, I'm looking out for Maybell. I want to just get to know people. I'm in NO rush to be in "a relationship" -- it's WAY too soon for that. But I think it would be very affirming to spend time with someone who doesn't find my interests curious rather than shared. I don't want to be a thing apart the way I think STBX thinks of me.
Anyway, we'll see what happens. There's a lot on my plate. This is just something fun to make me smile.
I'm sure you do smile mayb.
I never really stop these days, it's almost manic smiling. People love it, and they aren't shy to share that. Which is nice and gives me motivation to keep it up.
Even stuff some see as negative now makes me smile. The rhc xh tells me how abusive he is makes me laugh. People tell me h is running Nekid down the street, I would cheer.
It's weird, but I don't care about things like I used to. Which is a flip back to a prior me.
Mr. Bond : Yes. Everything is signed and filed. Gavel falls officially on the 23rd of Feb.
Maybell, you mentioned a few comments back that you are not sure why people have such a high opinion of you around here, but I can tell you, from my point of view, that you are someone that I really look up to because you seem to really exude strength and confidence. I follow your posts and know that you have down times and stressful times (as everyone does), but you seem to handle it with a grace and style that I HOPE to find at some point in the near future.
Like you, I tried to go on as normal about my sitch and it was HARD. It is only recently that I can use the D word without breaking down or refer aloud to my xh as my Xh. You just seem to have it together and that is why people think highly of you. You (among some of the others on this board) are a great example of how to handle yourself and how to move on with your life.
Thank you, Dawn, that was really validating.
Opened my morning with a laugh when I read my horoscope:
Aries: Week of Feb 1, 2015
This is an ideal time to sneak away to a private hideaway with your romantic partner. If you're single, you may meet someone special at a house of worship, spiritual retreat or charitable fundraiser. Be sure to attend a party, since you'll be the center of attention. An opportunity to take a business trip could fall into your lap; this will be a great time to sign a prominent client.
Wow, that covers most bases!
I seem to have all the blokes looking my way, I've been working a few seems this week I should get pay off then if the stars are right!
Nope not hold me breath.
Attorney appointment tomorrow morning. I'm getting the party started. And even though I'm absolutely certain that I can not go back to my STBX cheating fool, I'm still kind of dreading it. There is no glee. I'll be relieved to move on, but that doesn't mean this all doesn't sting. He was a pretty lame husband, but I still care about him. Maybe stupidly, but there you go. Nineteen years leaves a mark.
I had a loooong coffee date with church fella today. It was nice. He seems nice. I like him and it was enjoyable to meet someone new. I don't know if these interactions will amount to anything but he was easy to spend time with. He called me radiant and poised and complimented me on what I had to say in Sunday school. STBX used to say I was sharp, but he never complimented my appearance, nor was he specific in the sort of way that made me feel seen. I don't think he wanted to be married when he married me. I think he just wanted to be together. Maybe we rushed things. Or maybe we were too young. I don't know. I shouldn't be comparing and I hope I don't hurt this guy. I need to proceed with caution. It will be three weeks before we have the opportunity to spend time together again (owing to my schedule with the kids and the fact he lives an hour away) which is likely a good thing.
I wish I could explain how I'm feeling. I dread the attorney appointment for making things more real. I resent STBX for dumping this on me (though it gives me a greater amount of leverage in getting what I want, so I'm not complaining) and I resent him for making the choices that destroyed our family this way when things could have been so different. And I'm sad to be closing this door myself. I will be so relieved when it's done.
Oh, and STBX won't be taking the kids any week nights this week, because he supposedly has dinner meetings every single night this week. Who CHOOSES to not leave even one evening free for his kids? He prioritized work ever family every time. Also, I was going through the expenses in preparation for this meeting because I found NO food or gas charges of his going through any of our accounts in three months. Except one gas charge, at a station not near any of the places he has a reason to be (residential section of town) and three restaurant charges at restaurants I know that were unusual amounts for those places. So I suspect one of the work dinners keeping him away from the kids is a date.
Maybell,
My dad didn't choose to see me any more than the custody agreement allotted (which was, from my understanding, anytime he wanted as long as he got his ass in a car and drove and it was ok with my mom, plus a week in the summer and the week after Christmas). And even then, he just wasn't "in it."
Heck, I'm "grown" and I haven't seen my dad since 2011. No suggestion from him for us to get together. I imagine the next time we will see each other is at his fathers (my grandfathers funeral). After that, I doubt our paths will cross.
Some people just have different priorities, I suppose.
Will be thinking of you tomorrow. I admire your strength.
Met with the lawyer this morning. He's the right guy. In many ways I feel much better.
However, it did reawaken some anxiety. Someone out there might have some input on this.
I explained what I understand of my STBX. The attorney asked what I thought the three worst things STBX would say about me. The relationship with my D11 immediately came to mind... and then I drew a blank. I said, well, I get tense and anxious when we're planning moves, and he didn't like that (then explained how frequently we move). He asked about STBX's job history and said he felt like he needed to make sure kids and I were very well provided for because STBX is demonstrating unreliability.
And now that I've written that I am remembering that several years ago I had a dream about that exact scene. And I told him about it the next morning and we laughed.
I really DO NOT understand what was so intolerable about me. The attorney (who is GREAT) kept shaking his head and saying it was a shame, that STBX seems to be on a path of self-destruction and that he was an odd duck. That he has a lot to be embarrassed about and that since that was the case we probably could wrap things up fairly quickly. Thankfully. He gave me all the same compliments I get here, praised my introspection (this L asked some GREAT questions) and gave me strong warnings to keep "pure as the driven snow" till we got everything signed. Shook his head over STBX's choice in living arrangements and said how bad that would look to a judge. Legally, this is all very reassuring.
But I don't understand why my family has been ripped apart this way. Is that unreasonable? Will I ever understand it? Am I so horrible? Does it matter?
L was so adamant that STBX is not behaving rationally that it made me wonder if there really is something intolerable in our relationship that I was not aware of that I should have been doing (besides, maybe, more sex? Because I didn't do a lot of initiating because I was so dang tired all the time, and I felt lonely, and, and and).
I'll probably never know.
Maybe the answer is that there is nothing you could have done...that he has his own issues which he will carry with him into his next relationship.
Maybell, I think about this question a lot myself. If only *I* had done or been different, maybe I wouldn't be here now.
But let me also say that I have friends who have had (or are going through) similar problems in their marriages. The difference is that their spouse did not walk out on them one afternoon while their child was napping.
I guess what i am trying to say is, it's not just about us.
What I am trying to take away from this right now is how can I use this experience to heal the parts of me that led me to marry a man with whom I never felt totally secure. How can I change my sense of what's attractive so that I seek out healthier partners.
I'm glad you got a good vibe from your lawyer. You deserve a superstar in your corner.
Maybell--I don't need to say anything, because Claire answered your question perfectly.
Your H is likely carrying around baggage that you can't see, or at least see well enough to know. Until he gets rid of this baggage, he's not going to be authentic. End of story. Notice that my commentary did not include anything about Maybell in it? That was intentional.
Leave the naval gazing to the less enlightened. It won't even get you a cup of coffee. Seriously, a waste of time.
BUT, since I do have something relevant to add, I will. Last night, I watched an older "episode" of Joel Osteen on ABC Family. It was about making the most of our time here on earth, for time is the only commodity we cannot buy more of. (I know, I ended a sentence with a preposition... ugh). He went further and talked about consciously letting go of people who don't support us or benefit us, because we can't get back time wasted on those types of people who svck us dry.
So here's a link to a
very worthwhile message Let go of the ashes, Maybell.
Hugs to my Aries friend. No wonder we get along. Did you read our forecast on Susan Miller's site? It's pretty awesome. I'm taking her advice and making plans on the 22nd. That's my D20's 21st birthday, but she's not here. My college is sending someone out to do an alumni outreach, and I'm happily accepting. I'll try to wear something cute and not my yoga pants.
Betsey
But I don't understand why my family has been ripped apart this way. Is that unreasonable? Will I ever understand it? Am I so horrible? Does it matter?
Hey M. Is it reasonable to not understand why your marriage was ripped apart in this way?..Ayep..very reasonable.
Will you ever understand it? Probably not because we cant really know what is in another's mind and heart.
Are you so horrible? You know the answer to that.
Does it matter? Which part? That you are questioning whether you are horrible? Yes, that part matters a great deal.
Does it matter that you understand? It would be nice to understand it. Do you need to in order to have a good life? No.
I know, seeing who you are, that trying to make sense of it is important to you because of how you think. I know because I am similar in that regard. Til I accepted that I would never truly understand. I cant because I wouldnt take the same actions. I cant because I am not the same person as he is.
So I eventually let that go. It will happen for you, too.
Here's what I know. That is was important for me to own the things I needed to regarding the breakdown of my marriage. But were they things that warranted his actions? Abso-freakin-lutely not.
However, it was important for my growth to acknowledge the things I could have done differently or better.
I know that there wasnt anything that couldnt have been fixed. There wasnt anything that makes what he did and especially the manner in which he did it, ok.
But I still had to acknowledge his right to his opinions and actions. Even though they werent the actions I would have taken.
I had to acknowledge that in order for him to do what he did, in the ways that he did them, that he was in pain and very broken.
I have changed those things that I agreed with. I have grown in ways I would not have grown had this not happened. I found my worth. I know now I am enough.
I am glad you got a lawyer that gets it. Im glad that he has acknowledged some stuff about your h.
I believe that our spouses are broken people. People who arent, dont behave in the way that they do. They just dont. I think it has way more to do with them than it does us.
So, dont allow what this lawyer has said to make you doubt yourself. As long as you have done the work of looking inside truthfully and honestly, M, you have nothing to be anxious about regarding you.
Claire, Betsey, UR, thank you very much. It helps to hear the message I know intellectually reinforced in the moment.
I feel a little bit like I'm abandoning a cancer patient. But if someone signs a DNR you have to respect it, however much you want to wish for a different outcome.
The L said that it's one thing to say you want a divorce and another to actually go through with it, and not to be surprised if STBX does a bit of a turnaround at the last minute and tries to stop it all.
I know my STBX fairly well in some ways I think that won't happen. I think he'll be uncomfortable at the time, sigh and kind of say, well, I must endure, and carry on.
In the unlikely event he says "Stop! It was all a mistake!" I'm intending to say: I agree that this is not a desirable outcome. I appreciate that you think this is a mistake. Please show me that you are willing to prioritize my needs and sign the settlement. There is a LOT of mending to be done and if you are sincere in your desire to do that mending then signing this will be a show of good faith, and will give me the security I need while you do the work that needs to be done to heal what's happened in our family."
I realize this isn't the DB answer but I think it saves me from further limbo and sets a healthy and needed boundary.
You. Are. Amazing.
That's all.
What she said ^^. And M? Taking care of you is never the wrong thing. Ever.
Claire, Betsey, UR, thank you very much. It helps to hear the message I know intellectually reinforced in the moment.
I feel a little bit like I'm abandoning a cancer patient. But if someone signs a DNR you have to respect it, however much you want to wish for a different outcome.
The L said that it's one thing to say you want a divorce and another to actually go through with it, and not to be surprised if STBX does a bit of a turnaround at the last minute and tries to stop it all.
I know my STBX fairly well in some ways I think that won't happen. I think he'll be uncomfortable at the time, sigh and kind of say, well, I must endure, and carry on.
In the unlikely event he says "Stop! It was all a mistake!" I'm intending to say: I agree that this is not a desirable outcome. I appreciate that you think this is a mistake. Please show me that you are willing to prioritize my needs and sign the settlement. There is a LOT of mending to be done and if you are sincere in your desire to do that mending then signing this will be a show of good faith, and will give me the security I need while you do the work that needs to be done to heal what's happened in our family."
I realize this isn't the DB answer but I think it saves me from further limbo and sets a healthy and needed boundary.
Yeah, it's what I'm thinking I need if he comes back at me.
Although mine considered settlement a betrayal, so it just adds to his paranoid issues and helps his delusion along.
I really admire how you are handling this. You are inspiring! When I met with the lawyer I remember feeling suddenly defensive of H when she was talking about him. But when I talked to friends who have been through D they told me that is what I need. Someone who is looking out for me when my judgement is clouded by my emotions.
I feel very comfortable with my L and I like how she recognized my panic when we were discussing the D agreement, and assured me we could file it as a separation instead if I was unsure.
Maybell I feel for you. Sometimes people are on a path of self sabotage. My STBX is. All you can do is protect yourself as best you can.
I feel like I at least know I did all I could. I was a good wife, I tried hard and when it got tough I tried even harder. I don't want to be with someone that looks at me as an option. Keep your head held high. One day why this all happened will become clear and you will find happiness.
Maybell, love your whole post, especially the DNR part. It's so true.
You are a smart cookie, Maybell...
The L said that it's one thing to say you want a divorce and another to actually go through with it,
Which is why I refuse to date men who have not made this legal. I've encountered men online who have been separated for years, and they believe it's as good as D. Well, physically, maybe, but they still are legally attached to someone else until they aren't. Whatever reasons they have, they aren't good enough for me.
Mine didn't try to stop it either. It just took him 2 years to figure out that he was going to pull the trigger.
Maybell, I have quite a few friends (more than 5 couples) who have gone through a D and wound up back together again down the road. And every single one of them is happy and still together. They all say that the D gave them the chance to hit a reset button and really change. I respect the hell out of them. Not one of these couples has come back to the marriage with any doubts. They were just in the game--all in.
LOL, one of these couples divorced because the H had a LT affair with someone at work. His family was very, VERY quick to take his wife's side. However, and I should really say HOWEVER, she is the FIRST to admit that for the longest time, she left him out in the "some day, I'll give him the attention he wants" pile. Her kids, her job and their dogs *always* had priority over her H. She said that nobody outside the marriage knew how inattentive she was, and she always felt bad that he was cast in the role of the dick. He had been telling her for years that he wanted their marriage to grow together. They are my role models in marital forgiveness. Periodically, if he's being a jerk, she'll quip, "Oh crap. You're starting to sound like that jackass I was married to in my first marriage."
He gets it and grins. They were D for about 5 years, and now have grandkids and more dogs. And I have other success stories in this department too. Some of these folks I met here.
DB may not be the answer in saving this marriage, but it might be the long term answer to being in fully present and giving relationships from here on out. Not to mention, you should keep the book and refer to it when your D11 gets to be 15 or 16. Those techniques will definitely go a long way in navigating that female yuck period I so despise.
You are a smart cookie, Maybell...
Yes, you are! You keep questioning the high regard people here have for you, if you were reading this on somebody else's thread you would think highly of them as well!
Quote:
The L said that it's one thing to say you want a divorce and another to actually go through with it,
Which is why I refuse to date men who have not made this legal. I've encountered men online who have been separated for years, and they believe it's as good as D. Well, physically, maybe, but they still are legally attached to someone else until they aren't. Whatever reasons they have, they aren't good enough for me.
This hit home with me, my H changed his FB status to single (not a big deal in real life) but he's NOT single. Having some sort of R with OW and then came home, has not made any move toward divorce. Hasn't told the kids, filed or even seen a lawyer from what I now. Makes me wonder why OW is involved with him, except the fact that she probably doesn't know the whole situation.
If somebody really wants a divorce than not much should stop them...kids, finances whatever. Sorry for the slight hi-jack, this struck a chord with me.
When and if I get to the point you're at Maybell I hope I'm as strong as you are! And btw, it's ok to have moments of weakness or doubt!
she is the FIRST to admit that for the longest time, she left him out in the "some day, I'll give him the attention he wants" pile. Her kids, her job and their dogs *always* had priority over her H. She said that nobody outside the marriage knew how inattentive she was, and she always felt bad that he was cast in the role of the dick. He had been telling her for years that he wanted their marriage to grow together.
This wasn't my marriage. My marriage was like the Bunkers.
I just kept hoping we'd eventually start growing and pulling together.
I did use DB tactics on S9 yesterday. He's been really screechy and impatient lately, sneaky about not doing his homework, failing to take responsibility for himself. Yesterday morning after D11 left for school, while S7 was getting dressed, I sat down with S9 at the breakfast table with my coffee and said "You seem to be having a rough time with things lately. What do you think you should do about that?" When I sat down he visibly tensed up and by the time I got to "What should you do about that?" he relaxed, sat up straighter, and came up with a solution we could agree to pretty promptly. Then I said "I haven't gotten a hug from you yet today!" and he came over and gave me a HUGE one. So DB is definitely full of important lessons.
Last night I was emailing one of my friends on the west coast who got divorced a few years ago and she said (among many other profound things), something really helpful:
Remember, you don't get divorced FROM someone. You get divorced TO them.I can't help but wonder if STBX heard and understood this, if it might not have changed his approach to our M. Probably not. But it startled me a bit, and I get it. I appreciate her saying that. She had a lot more gems but I've got to get the kids to school.
Church guy isn't really a romantic prospect for me anymore. Or at least, not like he was. I still like him and appreciate him. I think it would be fun to do a few adventures together because we have a lot in common and it would be nice to not have to rely on married friends all the time. But I don't have the hots for him. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever have the hots for anyone. I feel like I'm really hard to please and I wonder if I was made to be partnered. I'm not even sure if I hope I am.
Maybe this is just the moment I'm living through.
Congrats on dbing your son! It's clear that your personal growth is having a huge affect on your R with your kids.
As for church guy and your romantic future? I think it's safe to say that anytime thoughts like, "I don't know if I'll *ever*..." feel or do something... Well, those are probably not permanent feelings, right? Seems early to make that fortune teller pronouncement! :^)
Maybell, your church guy story is inspiring, precisely because it didn't work out romantically. My IC has been trying to impress upon me that getting out there and talking to people, making new friends, some of which are going to be single guys, doesn't mean I have to enter a new R. I can enjoy myself and not feel like I have to commit to something. I tend to think in terms of a new R, it's clearly what I'm comfortable with after 27 years. But that's not the only choice, right? You go girl!
I hope you don't mind that I almost snorted my coffee all over the screen when I read the Bunkers thing?! FTR, we were somewhere between Archie and Edith and Peg and Al.
And like you, I was hoping we'd pull together too. Read: he'd come around to my way of thinking.
Great job with your S9. Isn't it an awesome thing to experience? They're so easy to work with, and the sooner we get them to own up to how they feel and how they choose to act is a parenting moment at its finest.
I feel like I'm really hard to please and I wonder if I was made to be partnered. I'm not even sure if I hope I am.
Sigh. Maybell, I'm pretty much wondering the same things 10 years post D. The more I fly solo, the more I love answering only to me. He'll have to be REALLY special to enter my queendom now. One day at a time, baby.
Maybell, I hear you. I wonder if I have too high of expectations for a partner. Maybe I'm too picky. Maybe I'm intimidating? I don't know. If there's someone out there for me, I guess it will either happen or it won't. I miss the companionship, but I am finding that I'm connecting more with friends instead, and that makes me happy. But I did, in a fit, sign up for a certain online dating site -- not because I'm ready to date, but to just dip my toe in the water and see what is out there. And, more important, to give my monkey mind a fun distraction so I won't waste more time dwelling on my WAH. It's terrifying, but definitely a distraction!