Hi all,
Well I finally made the plunge. I have been reading these boards for about a year and finally registered.lol
Let me tell you my story. My husband and I met in Nov of 2003 and married in July of 2005. His first marriage my second. I have four adult children he has one daughter now 13. His daughter was only 2 when we met. He was never married to her Mother and they fought in court for years over custody and access. This was certainty added stress to our relationship. I helped and supported him through it all and in the end we won full custody of his daughter then 9. One year later I noticed changes, my H was becoming less engaged and more and more withdrawn. My H is already an introvert and I am more of an extrovert so I kept trying to engage him and he kept withdrawing more. I was very frustrated because after all the support I gave I expected things to be happier once all the court stuff was over. He still wanted to be intimate with me but was spending more and more time in his office in our basement "working". BD came at the end of that year in Dec. After he returned from a business trip and again had not contacted me while away I asked him what was going on and if he still wanted to be with me. He said he didn't know. I thought he was going through a midlife crisis ( he had just turned 41) but had no idea what that really meant at the time. I tried to get him to go to see a counselor and I did not beg and plead but I did try and fix anything he complained about. I was angry too because after already dealing with supporting him through a very long trying battle for his daughter this was not the pot of gold I was expecting at the end of the rainbow. Finally that summer when he refused to get any help and told me he was miserable in our relationship I decided to leave. It was a difficult choice as I still loved him and was very close to my SD. I thought at the time that if he had time and space without me he may appreciate me more and miss me. His behavior was very confusing. Once he knew I was moving and I had stopped trying to fix the relationship. He started being more friendly, flirty and engaging with me. I didnt realize at the time that without knowing it I had dropped the rope and given him enough space to get his attention. What I didnt know also at the time was he was torn between me and a younger affair partner he met while travelling to Eastern Europe. A few weeks later she moved into our house with him and my poor SD. Fast forward and 2.5 yrs later she wasn't the soulmate he thought she was and they broke up. I have still been in contact with him because I have visitation with my SD. She never knew life without me in it and I refused to abandon her. Add to this her birth Mother passed away 6mths after we seperated. I'm the Mother figure in her life and she is attached to all of my family. Since the AP moved out my H and I have gone from being business like friendly to more and more friendly. Withnthe OW gone he would invite me in when I went to pick up my SD as well as he would come up to my Suite to pick her up rather than just waiting in the car for her to come down. The conversations grew more frequent and he'd offer me a glass a wine. In Sept he'd had a health scare and I went with him for the tests. ( I'm a Nurse) in Oct he asked me if he and SD could take me out for dinner for my BD. We were texting more and hugging hello and goodbye. We had a couple of nights were we watched movies together with SD. and went out for dinner together for her BD in Nov. I had read DR and been reading many posts on here so I was doing a pretty good job I thought applying the DB ways. I'm a pretty positive person ( most times) and have always had my own goals and activities. My H was complimenting me everytime he saw me on how I looked and I felt like the negative box he had packed me away in had some cracks in it. In Dec although he was still friendly and complimentary I noticed he was not trying to spend evenings together as he had been in OCt and Nov. I found out after Christmas he had gone on a few dates with someone new. I had felt hopeful that he was coming out of the midlife fog and we were reconnecting. On NYE I sent him a not so friendly Happy New Years message. I did exactly what you shouldn't do. I texted after midnight after a couple of glasses of wine. I said Hi hope you are having fun with your New girlfriend. Looking forward to you paying me out and divorcing you. Happy New Year! Love your wife. Not my best moment. I know. I was very surprised on New Year's Day to when he called me. I expected him to ignore, withdraw and honestly at that point I didn't care. He asked me to meet him so we could talk. I was taking SD that day to a family dinner so we met after I dropped her off. He was all over the place in what he said. He has gone through some of his midlife journey but still has a ways to go. He said that he was not proud of his past behavior and moving his AF into our house was a huge mistake. He said it was a year of hell living with her and it affected his health because he was so stressed.( so much for Happy with new soulmate!) he said he was unsure of getting back with me as he felt it was going backwards. He didn't want to hurt me again and was afraid of failing. He said he didn't have a girlfriend but had been on a few dates in Dec with someone. She had no expectations and that's what he wants. To do his own thing. No expectations. I listened, validated. I used all my new DB skills. Because of this he opened up more about his feelings than he ever has and even cried. He has never cried about us. He asked me if I wanted a divorce and I said that I had never wanted a divorce. I asked him why he had never filed. He said he didn't know. He couldn't make that final step even though he'd had a girl friend and now still was interested in dating others. I told him I had thought we were getting to know each other again and were tipping our toe in the dating pool. I wasn't home packing and planning on moving back. He told me he still had feelings for me, was attracted to me, admired me. He said I don't want to lose you. I don't want us to be strangers. I want to know what's happening with you and to be part of your life. He said he had wanted to be intimate with me over the last couple of months but knew it would go against my values if he was dating and being intimate with me. He said he wanted to date others because he was curious. Then he teared up held my hand told me I was his rock and the best person he knew. He said he knows I'm an all or nothing kind of girl and no expectation dating isn't me. Im the real meal deal. Lol. Fine dining instead of fast food..
So friends Thank you for reading my story. Here's where I need your help. What do I do now? I don't want him cake eating. Dating others for the thrill of it and enjoying casual romps while turning to me for the deeper emotional support and feeling of being loved. I told him I don't want to be his plan B. Do I just go dim? Pull back and create more distance? He knows I have a life, friends and keep busy. I don't want him thinking he can go do what ever with whoever and if he wants me I will be there. I feel like he needs to feel a fear of loss to make him step forward. Thoughts?
Hi again,
I have been home sick today and spent time reviewing and commenting on posts here on the boards. I realized after reading posts on distancing and pursuing by Cadet and Job that I have to drop the rope and stop any behaviors that could be seen as pursuit. So thankful to have these boards to turn too!
So H is away until the 11th on a business trip. I haven't heard from him since our coffee on the 1st. My SD is at her Grams so I don't have to contact him to see her.
I think I'm still on moderation. Looking forward to hearing from others on the board. Happy New Year! I hope that better things are coming this year for all of us.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
So post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power
Thanks Cadet,
I have been doing all of the above. I wish I had found this board before we separated. We've been living apart now since August 2012. I would have done something's differently if I knew then what I know now. I have read DR at least 3 times plus many other books. Having a PMA and GAL I was already doing. I work out pretty much every day and enjoy spending time with friends and family. Rereading the posts about pursuer and distancer have been helpful. I can see I was passively pursing . I will write more when I'm not at work trying to type on my iPhone lol I feel like I know so many of you on the board already. Looking forward to sharing more
Looks like I'm still on moderation.
Just hitting the hay after working a nightshift. Looks like I have a full on head cold. UGH! Hoping to go to hot yoga when I get up and sweat it out.
H. Is still away on business. Haven't heard a peep since our talk the other night. I won't be contacting him. I was thinking last night though about how far we've come in the last few months. Since the summer our convos have gone from a quick exchange while transferring SD back and forth to long convos and visits when exchanging SD. He took me to dinner after I accompanied him to a medical procedure in Sept. His Bday is in Sept. I bought him a bottle of champagne and a card from SD and myself to celebrate his good test results. He asked me to dinner with my SD for my BD in OCt. He had saved the Champagne which we drank that night. watched movies after dinner and he kissed me goodnight. Now hugging good bye too. Dinner out again in NoV for SD birthday. Another movie at home following. More frequent texting between us and he called me a few times to ask my advise about SD. I noticed in Dec. he seemed to have pulled back. Then found out that he had been on a couple dates. He did buy me a Christmas gift from him and SD. First time since we split. Think I will re read the stages of MLC. There is a post on that Forum I remember reading before.
Woohoo. I'm off moderation! Looking forward to hearing from all of you now that I can post faster. Finally on days off but now fighting a head cold.
By the way Karma12 comes from the year we separated in 2012 and my belief in Karma. Fun side note! Lol
Hello Karma12 - Thanks for sharing your story. You patience is impressive and inspiring. 2.5 years of separation and apparently a long time reading these boards before registering. It's a good idea to join the conversation with your own journey.
I wish I had advice for you, but you fall into my blind spot. If you followed my sitch, you'll know that I can't resist being nice to my WAW when she's nice in return. I'm told repeatedly to cut her off so she feel the loss of me or at least no endorsement of her A.
I like how your H is getting closer to you, but I really don't get why he's keen to see other people especially after his failed experiment with his girlfriend. He seems to realize your worth and what you bring to him, yet the idea of having casual sex seems to be overwhelmingly attractive to him. Go figure. I'm wondering if he's worth the fight? What happened to you in these 2.5 years? Met anyone interesting? Went on a few dates?
By the way, I suggest you separate your entries into shorter paragraphs to make it easier to read and engage more people. Also, add the basic information to your signature, like mine.
Welcome aboard.
Karma
I'll finish reading your thread tomorrow if possible. For now let me ask you to write in much smaller paragraphs. It's a lot easier to read, at least for me.
Plus if I use your quotes, it's easier for both of us.
Have you READ the Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy BOOK(S)?
You must. Period. They form the basis of the approach we take and the book (either or both, but the Div Remedy book is the later edition, arguably better)
has terms and techniques referred to here. But if you have not read the books, the comments here will only help you half as much.
(Besides, there are some who ask, "if someone won't take the time to read a book about how to save themselves AND their marriage, how dedicated can they be?")
What you read here will make a lot more sense once you've read one of the 2 books. Also, I suggest you consider these "rules" below which sandi assembled. They are based on the books and the Solution based philosophy espoused by the author of the books, Michelle Wiener-Davis, (aka 'MWD".)
I used "quotes" around the word "rules" b/c these are GUIDELINES and Not all of them will apply to each situation.
Some guidelines will evolve as your situation evolves, etc. So, use it as a Guide to live by while you figure out what's going on in your situation. It's not a code that you must rigidly apply to any/all events and interactions with your spouse, okay?
I copied and laminated this, and held it in my pocket for months. I read it DAILY. You may want to do the same.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.
39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is freeing.
Honestly, if I were you, after 2.5 years of separation and H living with another person, I would probably be done. But you are more patient it seems. But do you really want this person in your life? Really?
Either way, now is the time to do NC. He has to know that he WILL lose you if he continues down this path of casual dating. Only the fear of truly losing you might wake him up. Also, I wouldn't recommend this under most circumstances, but in your case I would say that now is the time for you to try dating.
He wants to date? So should you. See what your options are. You might be surprised that there are wonderful men who are not going to emotionally abuse you out there. Men that will value you. Also, this might wake him up to the reality that you are not sitting around just pining away for him. But that should not be the reason you date. The reason you date is to GAL and see how you really feel about H. Your perception might change. After 2.5 years, it's time to try something new, I'd say.
Karma,
Hello, welcome to the best place to be for a lousy reason.
I read your whole thread (turns out it's not very long when seen in total).
Ahoy has a great point. Plus you have enough insight into this process AND your own personal history thus far, to know that dropping the rope really TRULY must happen now.
YOU WROTE:
"He said he didn't have a girlfriend but had been on a few dates in Dec with someone. She had no expectations and that's what he wants. To do his own thing. No expectations. I listened, validated."
I don't know what or how one validates a h dating OWS and Not expecting expectations...
He's saying in effect, that he wants to cake eat. At least he's honest about it.
While I've seen a lot around here these many years, I won't pretend to be a MC.
I'm just a DBer who had things go her way, after learning through many many mistakes on my end and finally HEARING what people were telling me, enough to implement it.
Can you allow him to cake eat, with the proviso that he's NOT likely to want to commit to you again, ever?
B/C that IS an option for some people. What if you decided that a weekend "bf" is something you could handle from your ex h?
You can decide that Karma. You really can. I know how it sounds, but hey, it is what you have now except you haven't joined his bed. So I ask, why not?
I'm serious and I'm not being snarky. I'm simply asking you to dig deep and decide if you can "casually" (or not so casually) date your ex h,
while knowing he'll date OWs and he may "fall" in love with one of them and then you'd probably lose him totally.
Because if you know that you cannot do this^^, IF you realize you only coped with the past 2 years b/c you assumed things were improving and moving towards a truly restored marriage,
then you must accept that you were mistaken. He's NOT interested in being married to you enough at this time, to choose you. And he hasn't been for the past 2 years.
That might sound like a death knell of the R to you. It's not.
So far, you simply don't know what he fears or risks or is willing to risk, b/c thus far, he's pretty much known you are around and as you say, "passively pursuing" him. Another way of saying that is you are "waiting" for him.
The only route you have NOT truly given your attention to, is moving on.
You can move on and not "give up". in 2006 I believed my m was over. I told my sisters there was a "10% chance of us making it" and I came to accept that. I also changed a lot and felt pretty happy about where my new life was heading.
I felt that h was losing a lot more than me in the end and that I'd be more than alright. I also dated and met 2 attractive men who were good company. Though in the end most of the dating confirmed for me that h was a well suited mate, it also reassured me that I would not be "all alone" if we divorced. That removed a lot of the sting and fear...I felt empowered by this.
But you have to move on as if you are an "aunt" to SD. And an old friend of his -- you can be warm, upbeat, busy GAL and happy
and NOT with him. I would date AND OR act as if I am, if I were you.
The only thing that's not happened in your situation to know if there's a way to get him to commit, is for you to let him know (thru actions NOT words)
that he's losing you to OMs --b/c he won't do what OM's do every day, the mature thing which is to CHOOSE.
I see your ex as having these options...
1) "I'm an adult and thus, I cannot always 'just date'. I must make a choice at some point in life. Karma's the best I'll ever hope to do. I choose to commit to her AND I'll keep my commitment."
[[ ** I don't think he'll make this^^ choice unless he feels the cost of Not making it, i.e. losing you for good AND to OM. For some reason, a lot of men get awakened/competitive when OMs are around. Many don't wake up til then. Maybe nothing is as attractive to them, as a woman they cannot have...]]
OR
2) "I will keep Karma as the 'aunt' to my sd and friend --but I like playing the field and or looking for younger OWs, so this is as much as she and I will have and I'll stay on my hunt"
AND OR
3) "I'll keep on eating cake b/c I'd bet Karma will take me back in the event I change my mind later. Why wouldn't she? She's not dating anyone. So there's no one treating her better. AND
We get along and she loves SD--which I am subconsciously using against her b/c I know she's still in love with me--AND I can keep dating around, having sex with whomever and maybe, just maybe, in my 'shopping around', I'll find someone better/younger/newer, who 'makes me feel' better about myself.
THEN - I'll commit...to OW, to the extent I'm capable of."
Karma, drop the rope big time. Do you want to know how or do you have that?
Also, please let me know what your 180s and GAL are.
You seem to intuitively get a lot of this DB stuff. However, in terms of concrete actions and following the "formula" (= just a guideline, and it evolves just like our r's do. So nothing need be rigidly followed unless you put it as your "DB approach")
I'm not sure what your 180s are. Maybe that's what you are asking?
Without knowing that, here are my suggestions.
Keep doing whatever personal work you are doing, like working on temper or organizational skills or whatever his complaints about you were, that you think were valid, keep doing.
This way, he'll know the marriage he left would be an improved marriage if he were to truly return. Because No WAS returns to a marriage they left,
unless....they believe that marriage can be better/different than before.
Your job is to show that it can be. Was your love life something that could use a bit more spark? What is it that you believe YOU must work on?
And open your mind to the possibility that while you could tweak a few things some more - he may be one of those guys who CANNOT or WILL NOT commit and keep his vows. Ever. (He did not marry the mother of his only child. That says something.)
So if he's not capable of fidelity, determine now how you feel about that.
And IF he is capable, we won't know that until he sees the true cost of Not being faithful, which is losing the best thing to ever happen to him; you.
Til you are ready to let him lose you, (or at least act like it),
you probably can't know if he can really be faithful to you long term. He sure isn't in a hurry to make anything happen with your r, either way. That's not adult behavior. He's not making a choice. Do you see that? His choice" is to Not make a choice. His "choice" is to stay in neutral and not get in gear. Even for his D, whom he probably feels he has served well, by inserting you into her life. Like HE did her a favor there...
Sorry Karma...that might hurt a lot to hear. Hey, at least you two don't hate each other and you have a lovely SD in your life.
Other suggestions:
Be a lot more mysterious, GAL big time, be a bit distant --- b/c you are always on your "way out to meet a new interesting person, go to a fascinating place and OR doing something FUN"....!!
Remember that "rule" that says YOU have had an awakening. YOU ARE DIFFERENT.
(Hey, that = "new and shiny"...might be sparkling enough for him to investigate a woman like...you).
Figure out for real, if YOU really want HIM as your partner. How much unreliability can you handle? And deceit? What about that?
I'm Not saying "go get your anger back"!! I'm saying "from this day forward, what can you handle from him, long term?"
You need to know that pretty darn soon, b/c you have already invested a lot of time, in a R that has stalled.
Please Keep posting and keep on keeping on.
Wow thanks for the amazing responses. Mozzarella, Ahoy and 25yrs. sorry for the Long thread. It was a long story and difficult to make more concise. Lol
To clarify, when we won custody of my SD it was only a year before we split up. It was the only real family she had known. She was so upset when I left that she slept with me every night in the weeks before and was unable to go to school for two days after being told. My H father died a year before we split and he truly appears to be in a MLC. The therapist that my SD was seeing during the the year falling our told my H after we spit up that he wasn't engaging with his daughter so it was no wonder he wasn't engaing well with me. She told him SD would be very upset by our split. H behaved totally like a man in MLC he was not spending the time with SD he should have after fighting to win custody. If I was to decide if he was the man I wanted in my life based on the last three years I would say No. I honestly felt like I didn't know the man he was during this time. Since the summer I have seen more of the man I used to know and that in part is what was drawing me closer. He has been making more efforts with my SD and was I thought getting closer to me too. There was no lack of physical connection in our marriage. H has said he still attracted to me in that way. I thought we were moving slowly in a positive direction.
I agree with what you said 25ys he is wanting to cake eat. There is no urgency or fear of loss because he thinks I'm still here if he decides to recommitt. I really got that message when we talked. What I meant in regards to validating is he used to accuse me in the past of lecturing him. This time when we talked I listened to what he said without lecturing and I validated a couple of things he brought up about our past life. I get the mindset of a WAS because I was one. I left my first marriage after 11yrs. My four kids were 3-9. I was single for 10 yrs before meeting my present H.
You all asked if I have dated and yes I have been on a few dates. I havent met anyone that I felt a spark with yet. I'm quite happy doing my own thing but would like to eventually have someone in my life again. I do believe that at the right time the right person will walk into my life. I just have to stay open so I recognise it when it happens.
I have read DR at least three times as well as many, many other books. I have also read a lot on these boards and I do understand most of the lingo. I think that I've read DB many years ago when it first came out too. As far as GAL. I live in a very cool condo in a village kind of concept. It's in an outdoor mall with all the shops below the condos. Helps prevent the feeling of isolation as there are coffee shops and people everywhere, I walk to do most of my shopping. My gym is across the parking lot. I go to the gym often, run outside 3-4 times a week and practice hot yoga 4 times a week. I go out for dinner or drinks with friends or family. I like to hike, ski ( I'm a real novice) snowshoe travel. I went on a cruise last year and I am planning two trips this year. I haven't stopped living my life.
Our marriage went down fast and suddenly. I had no choice but to put on my big girl panties and move forward. It was not easy but I did it with dignity and grace. I knew intuitively that Hubby needed to walk alone and had some self discovery to do. I was more of a distant neighbor up until the last four months. Only chatting about SD and not spending time together other than a quick exchange. He initially was the one making efforts to get closer which I respnded to. I thought the fog was lifting I'm still single so maybe? Neither of us had filed for divorce.
25yrs I think your are correct and my struggles have been with the 180's. I agree I have to drop the rope and show through my actions. I tend to feel the need to explain myself. I am not interested in dating H if he wants to date others. The flirting between us and the time spent is not what I will be doing going forward. He told me he thinks I'm amazing, I've always taken care of myself, I'm attractive, fit, funny, caring. A year ago he forgot all of those things. He had me packed away. I guess I got my hopes up seeing some changes coming from him.
Opps getting long winded again! Lol thanks again for the feedback I really appreciate it.
Mozza,
I just re read your post. I have read your thread and will go back and check it out again. I have been more friendly with my H because I thought we were moving towards reconnecting. Previous to the last four months I was not unfriendly just more friendly neighbor like. I won't be as friendly now and will be going back to being friendly neighbor. Otherwise I will be letting my H cake eat. Why would he move forward if I'm giving him all he needs without having too. I know that if I ever want a committed relationship with H. I won't get it continuing as I have. Now I need to pull back and drop the rope. When you are engaing with your W leave her wishing she could have more time with her. If you tell yourself ( when you catch yourself)!being "too" friendly that you are actually preventing her from missing you and prolonging the process it may help you be more of a friendly neighbor. Ask yourself if I text, call, chat too long am I getting closer to my goal or am I actually pushing my goal further away. That short term gain feeling you get from contact won't help in the long run. ; )
I'm off to GAL now. Taking my dog for a run and going to hot yoga. Cheers!
HOT YOGA. Love it. I know it's temperature hot, but it makes me think of something else. LOL.
Have fun!
Little you made me laugh! I could use a little of the other Hot too. Wink wink. Lol
I have this problem called personal values that stops me from having casual relationships.
25 yrs I have am rereading your post and each time getting more out of it. I know and knew already a lot of what you are saying. It is helpful having someone else say it.
Just back from my run. The one benefit of being on my own is I can do what I want when I want. Hot Yoga is at 8pm. a great way to finish the day.
Back from Hot yoga.....always feel better after.
I'm pretty sure my H was in a depression when we split. He was checked out of life ( other than work) not just me. He had stopped seeing his friends, stopped seeing his sister. ( parents are both gone as are mine) He didn't go out and GAL. He was never as active or social as I was but he literally was spending every day in his office in our basement from the am until 8pm other than picking up SD from school. I was the one being the parent to SD and taking care of everything around the house. We had gone to an Xmas party at his friends and he withdrew and was down in there basement with all the teens. He shut down from life. I was worried and had tried to get him to do things and spend more time with me and SD. He had lost his job as a broker and I think this took away part of his identity. He took a job ( without telling me) that involved travelling to Eastern Europe for ten days every six weeks. Every time he went I felt he was moving further and further away from me. I felt like a switch went off in him and he had shut off emotionally when it came to me. I was very confused and hurt. We had finally got SD and the family he wanted and he checked out.
He has said that he knew I wasn't happy and figured I was going to eventually leave so he detached. His only complaints were that I nagged him too much. I reminded him when we had coffee the other day of all the things I had suggested to try and keep us connected that he had dismissed. I told him how I had worried about him and felt the emotional switch off. He said you know you did try and I wasn't . Most of all of our problems are my fault. I'm not proud of my behavior and I don't know why I did some of the things I did. You didn't deserve it. I think I am in a MLC.
When we chatted a few days ago at coffee it is the first time he has ever teared up when it came to me. I could see his confusion and he was not making sense. I want to date others and not have to have any expectations. I want you in my life I still have feelings for you, I am still physically attracted to you. I've thought of us getting back together. I'm scared of failing. I don't want to hurt you again. You were my rock. I don't want to be strangers. I want to know what's happening in your life.
I left him with some food for thought as well as I have been thinking about what he said. He knows I've been on a few dates but has not had to face me moving on with someone else. He does still have a way to go out of his MLC tunnel. I see that. I will be pulling right back and will be more mysterious.
You're so articulate and insightful sounding, I feel as if you are on the right course & barely need my advice.
Just to be clear, I am Not suggesting you pull back and disappear. I'm not a fan of an indifferent attitude to a WAS, especially one who is being polite and flirty with you. You don't want to shut him down but you don't want to pursue.
In your situation (and not all are like this), I really believe your h KNOWS what he'd need to do or start with, if he were ready to try for real. So you don't have the problem of thinking "OMG what if h doesn't realize I'd be willing to reconcile under certain conditions??"
He knows you're more than willing and that has NOT gotten him home.
Now that he SAYS he is seeing you in ways that sound familiar from the good times, just confirm those visions he has of you, the positive images that contrast witht he negatives he used to justify leaving, and then ACT like a woman who is moving on. (I would tell you to just "move on, he knows how to catch up",
but something "acting" is the most we can ask for until the LBS is really ready to do it).
In any case, YOU are the one who must have no expectations. NO expectations of him going forward as a partner to you, AND while you are also being a kindly neighbor to him and "aunt" of your SD...
That phrase or mantra for your life "Gotta hurry b/c I'm Busy doing fun new things, meeting fascinating people and going to interesting new places!!" has to be what you radiate.
The paradox of this^^ GAL,
is that on one hand, these pieces add up to you being your most attractive to your h, WHILE NOT being the goal of it, at all.
Rather the upbeat happiness and appealing self you will become, is the byproduct of active GAL and so,
when some LBSers worry about how GAL Might make it seem as if they don't care about their WAS, we remind them of how much more appealing they are by doing this^^.
We remind them that clinging and obsessively 'needing' their spouse (or making the WAS responsible for their happiness...) won't work. Making the spouse the focus of our lives makes us boring, too.
Around here we know most, what does NOT work.
Make sense?
Finally, you sound healthy. I believe the fun loving, self care activities you are engaged in, are things you just need to keep on doing.
Hi 25yrs,
Thank you for your thoughtful insights. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying.
Part of what I think sparked H. To get friendlier in the Summer was my SD telling him about a young guy that was hitting on me when I took her on vacation to visit my brother. We had just arrived and we're taking out our suitcases when this man that was no more than 30 something came over and was asking me my name, if I was single, telling me how attractive I was. I was really embarrassed at the time and SD told EVERYONE the story.lol Apparently she told H when she got home all about it.
H does know I've been going to parties over Xmas and that I have traveled. He also knows I have a profile now on an online dating site. He knows too that most of my friends that were single now have boyfriends.
H said we had coffee the other night that he knows I'm the real meal deal and not someone that has casual relationships. I told him that that did not mean I had my suitcases packed thinking I was going to sell my place and move back in. I told him I had thought we were getting to know each other again and would maybe date and see where things grew. I said that way I could come back to my nice clean place and you could stay in your messy place without it bothering me. We both laughed other that as it is the truth! Lol
I agree being indifferent is not the right idea. I was thinking more of not answering texts as quickly, not being as available ect. He did start the getting closer by doing funny little trying not to be obvious but being soooo obvious things like texting me not about SD at weird times using silly reasons. Eg. He texted me once at 2:30 am to say " I heard Scotland is voting for independence. ( I'm Scottish) what does your family think?" Haha.
When we first split H did not want to spend time with me and his texts were very short and only about SD. At that rime I think he would have been happy to not have to see me again. Now he wants me in his life and was worried that I was going to shut the door on him. He can't committ to yes and he can't committ to no.
One thing I have learned in my life is the definition of insanity is repeating the same behaviors expecting different results.
I will do as you said. I will move ahead in my life with no expectations. If I'm not really ready to date I will act as if I am. I will be more mysterious. H said he wants to stay close and know what's going on in my life. I will be more evasive when it comes to my social life. ; )
Once her returns from his trip and we are in contact I will be asking for feedback to help keep me on the straight and narrow.
Thanks again!
Oh and since I was a WAS once and am now a LBS I hope that my experiences I can also help others on the board.
There is something peaceful about no contact. Lol
Went to hot yoga then out for dinner and drinks...GAL!!
May I ask what hot yoga is?
Other enquiring minds would like to know that too..
Haha...hot yoga is taught in a heated room. The temperature is 40 Celsius that's 104 degrees F in the USA. The classes are 60-90 minutes long. We do flow through poses and it increases strength as well as flexibility and balance. The music is spa/yoga relaxation music. You do sweat a lot and eel totally recharged after a class. It helps quiet the mind. Great for the body and soul. Distresses me.
I live on the West Coast in BC Canada. It's very popular up here with both men and women.
Hi all,
I'm still keeping busy with all my GAL activities. No contact since Jan 1/15 with H. Actually feels better to have some distance. Our talk was an eye opener for me. I am moving forward in my life. If he catches up that's up to him.
He says he admires my values but now I question his. SD 13 is left alone too much. This is going to come back and bite him in the a$$ in a couple of years. I worry what will happen to her. One day he will be a story man.
25yrs I'm dipping my toe in the dating pool. I've created an online profile. Lol
Life goes on and I want to live mine.
I'm home after a nice night out visit g my brother. He and his wife just bought s new place.
another dark day unanswered. On we go to another day,
No contact with H. now since Jan 1 gotta say it feels good.
25yrs I'm going on a coffee date next week. ; )
So today I had the first contact with my H since Jan1.
I was working and my SD called. She wanted to see me. I'm a nurse and work 12 hr shifts. I told her I'm at work sweetie and won't be home until 730 pm. She said that's ok Dad says I can come and he will pick me up at your house later.
I picked her up at 730pm. H. Was not home. SD had not had any dinner. We arrived at my place. I ordered her dinner and we walked my dog. She told me she is sad that her Dad is not spending more time with me. She had gotten hopeful she we spent more time together in Oct and Nov. I told her that her Dad does love her but has some personal things to work out. She told me she was home alone one night this week until 630am! She caught him coming home. I was furious. I told her if he is ever really late call me. ( I live five mins away) I will come get you. I to,d her it is not ok for you to be home alone all night and your Dad could get in big trouble for doing that. I would like to personally kick his a$$. Who leaves a 13 yr old girl home alone all night?!
I am so disgusted and have no respect left for this man. He showed up an hour and a half late to pick up SD. He would have liked to stay and chat. He hugged me hello and goodbye. In the past I would have thought it was great. Tonight I gave the awkward half hug pat on the back back. This MLC crap is so maddening. My poor SD is suffering for his selfish behavior.
Wow Karma that is terrible your H would leave SD home alone like that. I can see how you ant to kick his a$$. It must be hard not to wonder what your H is thinking when he does things like that. Will you talk with him about it?
Hi HP,
Thanks for reading my thread.
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. My SD told me her Dad tried to make up excuses as to why he was getting out of his car at 630 am. He told her he had been at Costco. ( no bags and it opens at 10 am). Then said he had gone for a run. I know him well enough to know he will lie to me too if I question him or he will say SD is exaggerating. I told SD that the next time he is out past midnight on a weekday that she is to call me and I will come pick her up. That way she is safe plus when he finally shows up I can then give him an earful. Her Grandma ( maternal) and I are both very worried about SD. We also have to watch we don't alienate him as he has all the rights as the only parent.
I told SD that his behaviour is not normal and it has nothing to do with her. I told her he loves her as much as he is capable of loving someone. All she wanted to do was sit with me and cuddle. She is so sad. She loves her Dad and wants his attention so badly. I felt the same way when I was still in the home. Always waiting for something from him. At least then she still had me. It breaks my heart. One day he is going to be a very sorry man.
Hello Karma. I sympathize so much with you and your feelings for your SD. To you it is so clear how easy and right it is to simply come together for SD as a family. Much easier even to just take good care of her... not leave her alone overnight. It's hard for me to understand too when my wife chooses not to see my S12 on Christmas. Just let it go... right? You were right to tend to your SD'd love for her father. I think you're doing well for her and for yourself.
Oh I just feel terrible for your SD! That's terrible. It's technically neglect and his MLC life could get infinitely worse if DCS gets involved. That's scary. Poor thing. I am so glad you're there for her. She needs you. Oh man.
I know hard to fathome isn't it. To be it goes against the basic instinct to take care of your young. MLC is like a Narristic mental illness. While in their tunnel they can't see beyond their own needs. Not that it excuses at all their behaviour.
Your sD is lucky to have you. Im proud you watch out for her like that. Its the right thing to do. This mlc thing is just sheer horror, how can someone do this to their own d???
Hi Mom22 thanks for stopping by.
This MLC thing is awful. It is shocking to read on the boards all the damage
that is done. It truly is like an Alien has taken over the spouse we knew. At times there are glimmers of the old H. I know though he is still in the tunnel.
This is the man that spent 100 k fighting for custody to give his daughter a better life. It breaks my heart to see her sad and hurt.
I have known SD since she was two. She doesn't remember life without me in it. I promised when I left I would not abandon her.
Its sad the children always suffer when a parent thinks only of their needs. Again im proud of you, withoutyou she d be alone. As he is mentally unavailable too, i mean who leaves a 13yo at home at night for a date???
Thanks Mom22 for your encouraging words.
He is actually a very intelligent man. Unfortunately he's not using his head. I think he intended to come home and probably fell asleep. He then thought he'd be able to sneak back in without SD realizing he'd been out all night. Her room is over the garage so when he opened the garage door she heard it. Still he shouldn't be going out late on school nights period. Now that her Grandma and I are aware we will be keeping closer tabs on what's going on.
I know he does love her and sadly I think it is going to take something happening to wake him up. She's 13 and in high school. This is the age she needs to be supervised the most.
He obviously knew he did wrong and was feeling guilty. He normally would not have agreed to her coming to me like she did the other night.
This MLC thing creates a monster. It's like all people have their good side and bad side but are usually able to balance between the two. With MLC the good disappears and they are their worst selves all the time.
Im sorry you got your hopes up. It s hard!
I ve got some idea what its like. :-) @ss brought AP2 in to our hpuse when we were gone to give him 'some rest' and she stole one of my rings. But 'no she would never do that'...... He's just not 'in there' anymore. Its just the MLC.
Should you maybe consider moving on for real? It doesnt mean he can never come back but it would mean a beginning for you. Not just living your life waiting for him. Its been really long now and you deserve peace & some fun.
I hope I'll be able to move on/close the door on my H this year. If he then wants me back (which i doubt) he will have some serious work in proving that. As I do not want to be sn example that teaches my daughters its ok to be frequently cheated on.
Hi Mom22
I haven't been waiting all this time. I've been keeping busy doing things I like to do. I've been on a couple dates but haven't met anyone special yet. I did get hopeful when I saw glimmers of my old H. There is still live there. I do know I have to just keep moving forward in my own life.
I don't get how the a$$ thinks bringing his AP into your home is ok. You would think it would create too much guilt but it doesn't! So disgusting. The fact that he defended her taking something of yours is disgusting too.
I found out about my H having his AP from Eastern Europe move into our house from my SD. My SD came home from a vacation in Mexico to find her DAds new "friend" living in the house. He thought she bought the friend story and he had even set up the spare room for his "friend". SD was 11 and not so easily fooled. She realized her Dad must have cheated on me. ( what an awful discovery) she didn't want to tell me so she showed me.
SD was coming to my place for dinner. Her Dad dropped her off but didn't come up. This was odd as he usually did. SD was acting kinda different so I asked her if she was ok. She said is it ok if we go back to my house before we go out for dinner and pick up my asthma med. I forgot it. I said oh ok. We drove back to the house. When we got there she said can you come in with me? I thought this too was odd as she normally would just run in and back out. She opened the door and we stepped in. I felt like something was really off. I noticed a frame on the wall that had had our pics in it now had pics of a strange woman. I heard someone shuffling. The woman was trying to hide in the butlers pantry off the kitchen not realizing it was glass and I could see her! I was in total shock. I grabbed SD and we got back in the car. My son ( thankfully was with us driving) I was bawling my eyes out. SD had thrown her Dad under the bus. She was angry and knew I should know. She didn't realize how hurt I would be. I had no idea what I was walking into. Her Grandma told me later they had talked about how to tell me.
H. Called my phone constantly after I left until I picked up. I went into the bathroom at a restaurant and blasted him. I don't anger easily but I sure did then. He had the oddasity to tell me he didn't want me making SD feel guilty and I was upsetting SD. I told him you friggin fool your own D just threw you under the bus. Do you think she's stupid? One day Mark my words when she's a teen she's going to throw all this back in your face. That night was worst than BD.
Now he says it was a huge mistake moving AP in. Now he understands why I was so upset. Because ya know he does have feelings for me and thinks I'm great. He just wants to see what's out there and date others with no expectations. Ugh! The craziness of the MLC.
I really am in a much better place now. I am pretty happy most days. My home is my solace. I find peace there. One day when the time is right the right one will step into my life.
Time does heal all wounds. One day you too will meet someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated. We are role models for our daughters. We are teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. Big hugs to you.
Oh dang it, Karma...
((( ouch! )))Hi Mom22
I haven't been waiting all this time. I've been keeping busy doing things I like to do. I've been on a couple dates but haven't met anyone special yet.
Date some more, and this time do it with the concept of your X h,
being your EX, as in Former h.
Please do something for me, okay? I just want you to imagine this for 5 MINUTES
ok?
SO, imagine that your x h passed away a few years ago, and your grief has mostly passed.
Imagine that the grief really has been processed...he's gone and you have accepted it...
and imagine now, that even though he's gone, you are happy--
What does that picture look like? Flesh it out in a lot of detail.
What are you doing? Where do you live?
Taking a class? Learning a new language? Still working at the same hospital? Different floor or ward? Dating anyone new? What about someone from work?
Imagine that You are now ready to date "for real", with an open mind and heart, and a great sense of humor.
Where have you travelled lately? Did you take your SD or your other kids?
Imagine a fulfilling life,
without him.. and with you happy...
and now, what of those ^^ things can you do...this month?
I did get hopeful when I saw glimmers of my old H. There is still live there. I do know I have to just keep moving forward in my own life.
I don't get how the a$$ thinks bringing his AP into your home is ok. You would think it would create too much guilt but it doesn't! So disgusting. The fact that he defended her taking something of yours is disgusting too.
What I'm reading here ^^ is that of the many mistakes he's made, only a few have registered in these 3+ years.
You said He's intelligent, and I believe you. So his resistance and whatever conflicts with whats right, is deep & has been winning the internal war.
Not a good sign at all....sorry
I found out about my H having his AP from Eastern Europe move into our house from my SD. My SD came home from a vacation in Mexico to find her DAds new "friend" living in the house.
This is his PAST (reprehensible) behavior, from which he's learned very little. I guess my question is, what's your question? I'm not being snarky.
Earlier, I asked you if you could handle this "Friends with benefits" relationship -
AND Or the "Loving Aunt to a needy/wonderful Stepdaughter" role.
From what I see, those ^^ are still your only options.
He thought she bought the friend story and he had even set up the spare room for his "friend". SD was 11 and not so easily fooled. She realized her Dad must have cheated on me. ( what an awful discovery) she didn't want to tell me so she showed me.
SD was coming to my place for dinner. Her Dad dropped her off but didn't come up. This was odd as he usually did. SD was acting kinda different so I asked her if she was ok. She said is it ok if we go back to my house before we go out for dinner and pick up my asthma med. I forgot it. I said oh ok. We drove back to the house. When we got there she said can you come in with me? I thought this too was odd as she normally would just run in and back out. She opened the door and we stepped in. I felt like something was really off. I noticed a frame on the wall that had had our pics in it now had pics of a strange woman. I heard someone shuffling. The woman was trying to hide in the butlers pantry off the kitchen not realizing it was glass and I could see her! I was in total shock. I grabbed SD and we got back in the car. My son ( thankfully was with us driving) I was bawling my eyes out. SD had thrown her Dad under the bus. She was angry and knew I should know. She didn't realize how hurt I would be. I had no idea what I was walking into. Her Grandma told me later they had talked about how to tell me.
OMG She's so brave and loving!! And how disappointing for her. Karma, she's already endured too much for such a youngster.
You are her ONLY Model for what is acceptable from a man (oh, and her biological mother, whom he never married...)
Are you certain this $#&@ is what you want to teach her is, in effect, acceptable? B/C your openness and not moving on (for real I mean) is
in effect, an acceptance, is it not? Am I missing something?
H. Called my phone constantly after I left until I picked up. I went into the bathroom at a restaurant and blasted him. I don't anger easily but I sure did then. He had the oddasity to tell me he didn't want me making SD feel guilty and I was upsetting SD. I told him you friggin fool your own D just threw you under the bus. Do you think she's stupid? One day Mark my words when she's a teen she's going to throw all this back in your face. That night was worst than BD.
Now he says it was a huge mistake moving AP in. Now he understands why I was so upset. Because ya know he does have feelings for me and thinks I'm great. He just wants to see what's out there and date others with no expectations. Ugh! The craziness of the MLC.
Hey let me make one point here^^ about this "MLC" stuff. There are vigorous debates about it, using it as an excuse or b/c an LBSer wants to hang on to crumbs, etc.
I tend to dismiss some of the labels b/c SOME LBSers hang onto the MLC term thinking that it somehow makes the WAS more likely to return.
I'm not sure 1) there is ANY data supporting that^^ hope/belief; and
2) just b/c someone regrets a mistake 7 or 12 years later, does it mean they were in a MLC? And so what if it does?
What if they were just jerks and took a really really long time to figure it out?
And
3) Nothing says that the MLCer who does "wake up", means he/she learned the lessons they need to learn;
AND OR
4) theres on proof that they improve as partners later on...(none that I know of.)
So My question would be, how do you know it's some type of MLC versus,
the culmination of a long pattern for him?
WHAT IF??
What if Once the utility of your presence (i.e. getting custody of his d) was achieved, you became far less appealing and interesting to him.
As in, "Mission accomplished, what's next?" That's almost like an ADD kid/man who wants the new shiny thing every few years.
Never commits unless he has to (like he would need to, in order to get custody)
I don't mean to suggest he consciously used you for custody, and then dropped you for OW. But at some level it sure looks that way.
You happen to be a great catch, but he's not.
And he never has been...I mean, you guys were in "happy family land" for what, a year? 2years? Out of a decade+...
I am concerned you're holding onto something that isn't what you thought it was b/c you were in love and happy.
Whatever it was, b/c of SD perhaps, you sure have been around a long time. To your ex, you probably appear to be a woman...who remains available to him.
You know, you can still be a great stepmom, forever. That does NOT have to change. And When she's 14, her rights will increase too (are you in the US?) She can ask for more visitations and so can you.
Even if you are biologically unrelated, I have seen step parents granted mandatory visitation.
Maybe that can be worked on without any other expectations on your end and you can be around him as if YOU ONLY WANT his "co-parenting r" with you.
Like you are "Fond" of him b/c hey, he's a good FORMER bf,
and an old buddy you sort of feel sorry for
b/c you know what a great catch YOU are/deserve,
which HE has NOT been for quite some time, and is not now.
I really am in a much better place now. I am pretty happy most days. My home is my solace. I find peace there. One day when the time is right the right one will step into my life.
Well, you probably need to be on the dance floor to meet the dance partner, don't you think? ((Not that you are one of them, but I never understand women who believe they'll "meet someone" but literally don't go where the opposite sex is....just a pet peeve)). I think they don't believe effort is needed, but it is. I don't know how often love "Falls" in someone's lap.
Time does heal all wounds. One day you too will meet someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated. We are role models for our daughters. We are teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. Big hugs to you.
Karma, you wrote this last^^ paragraph to Mom22...and I could have written it just that way,
to YOU. Your SD is watching you and praying that you'll show HER how to deal with such a setback and betrayal.
You have to model for her that your pain is deep, yes, but it's NOT FATAL
(for you will heal and you heal yourself, it's not "out there"in the universe, it's within you to heal yourself)
AND it's NOT ETERNAL b/c it does end. You will be happy again, laugh again, explore and venture and date AND LOVE AGAIN...
you'll choose wisely & extra carefully (b/c SHE is watching you)
and If & when you meet the deserving male, then you shall give yourself fully, but always in a manner that allows you safety.
The safety of knowing that no matter what someone does around us or to us,
we are not defined by it. We shall heal ourselves and move forward, starting now.
You sound like someone who doesn't mind being alone, but you are also someone still carrying a torch for a man who treated you quite shabbily, for quite some time. And he's not exactly winning prizes for winning you over sweeping you off your feet with proclamations of all that he's learned and realized and is NOW ready to commit and do right!!! Nope, not so much... 
I'm not someone who minds being alone, though it's easier for me to say b/c I'd be near my family or close friends.
The one thing I'm sure is worse than being alone,
is wishing you were...
Question: What would you tell your SD if she dated a man like your ex?
Would you want her to marry him and have kids with him?
Would you want her to give up the chance to meet someone else way better suited and a ton more ready for commitment than her "bf" might never be?
B/C to me, you've spent the last several years in a relationship that is not acceptable, and you are here wondering how to get to a place where it is acceptable.
I'm sorry to say ^^^that. God, I really am.
-
The only thing you don't seem to have tried is being truly unavailable b/c you moved on.
Maybe it won't work. Maybe he's not up to it, and never will be for any real time.
But what you have been doing is not getting you the results you need/want. And there is damage being done to the SD -
and your "opportunity costs" (chance of meeting a better partner)
go up every year.
How long are you going to keep paying those costs?
PS
I hope you'll really do that 5-10 minute exercise and drop the rope for real.
Move on. Go forward. Act as if reality has sunk in, which is that he's NOT husband material. Be brave.
Be a GREAT LOVING step mother, and expect No lasting improvement from your ex h.
If he makes an adult choice about you, you'll know it. He knows what to do; he's 44 y/o! There won't be mystery or foggy stuff; it'll be clear & overt.
(If not, it's simply not worth turning around for.)
You've gained a wonderful SD for whom you are grateful. She's always going to be in your life.
Stay the course. I truly believe if there is a chance of him growing up for you, it'll be b/c he honestly think he's lost you.
And if he never wakes up or never does the work needed to win you back,
then Imagine her seeing you alone, but happy.
AND OR -- imagine her seeing you in a healthy loving M w/OM. Now that's a life lesson!
My .02
I think thats a very good perspective: YOU ARE THE ONLY ROLEMODEL for your SD. Show her what you'd want HER to do if she was treated this way. This is why I am leaving. My daughter will NOT learn that this is acceptable behaviour.
25mlc has some good points. Go out! LOOK for a guy. I seriously have no idea where I d meet any men. But maybe some of your friends do?
There is no chance for reconcilliation right now. Maybe there will Mevrr be, but the only thing you can still control now is him losing you. Become happy with a man that deserved you. You might not even want him back then. :-)
Hi 25yrs thanks for checking in and for all of your wise words.
I actually think that H. has ADD. I was the longest relationship H. Had and his only marriage. He didn't marry the bio Mom because she was addicted to coccaine. She was a legal secretary and he didn't know about the addiction when they met. They broke up and she went to rehab. While in rehad she contacted him and said she wanted to see him and share her experinces. He took her out on a day pass and she got pregnant with SD. She did use a few times while pregnant. They tried getting together again but it didn't work. Bio Mom did stop using and SD became her life. Bio Mom fought H tooth and nail over access. She was also DX as a Borderline Personality disorder. If you know anything about them you can imagine the conflict.
H. was good for all of our dating years. He was loving and engaged with me and SD. We were together for three years before getting engaged. We married six months later and the first two married years were good. ( other than the stress of the trial ) It was the last two that things went downhill. Especially the last year.
I agree that when the fight for SD ended and she was living with us full time H. was looking for as you said a new shinny something to focus on. Looking back part of it was all about winning. He was doing things with SD because he wanted her to want to live with us. Once she was he wasn't being the parent I thought he should be and he had been so I was thinking "what the heck?! " . I was becoming the primary parent.
I have four adult kids. 32-25. My daughter is 25. It was after I tried in the last year to get H. to re engage and after I tried to get him to seek IC or MC and after he had been not treating me the way I deserved for at least a year that I threw in the towel. I chose to leave. The final straw was he told me he was miserable in our relationship but refused to do anything about it. I told him you are miserable period and blaming me. I told him you are not treating me or our relationship with any respect. After all the support I gave you to gain custody of SD you owed it to both of us to at least try. I said to him that I am a role model to both of our daughters and I don't want them to think that the way you have been treating me is acceptable.
H. told SD that I was moving out ( without me present ) because I wanted to move closer to my cousin. I was met when I came home by a tearful SD asking if this was true. I told SD that no that want true. I told her that unfortunately her Dad did not love me in the way someone is supposed to when they are married. I told her that i had to leave in order for me to be happy. I promised I would not abandon her and would always be there for her. I involved her in my condo shopping and decorating. She slept with me every night until I left.
I am very close to my kids and see them often. My daughter lived with me for the first six months before moving in with her BF. I found it a big adjustment suddenly being an empty nester. I was going through most of my grieving in the first six months. I was most hurt by the betrayl. It's funny you mention thinking of H. As having passed away because I have used that analogy in my own mind.
I never stayed home and boo hooed. I have been through a lot in my life and do have pretty good coping skills. I went to Vegas, Mexico and the Carribean the first year. Last year I went on a Mediterranean cruise for 2 weeks. I go out with friends or and family. My kids and I are very close and love getting together. I workout many times per week. This year I'm hoping to take SD and my daughter to Mexico in July. Then go myself to Scotland in Sept. I was born there and my second eldest is living over there with his girlfriend.
After the H. And his AP broke up and he was more engaging with me it did trigger those old feelings and I did think maybe he had woken up. Now after our talk and after seeing the way he's been putting SD on the back burner to go date. It has made it much easier for me to detach. His behaviour especially towards his D. Disgusts me. He won't change now unless he goes for therapy. I haven't texted him or contacted him at all since Jan 1. I went through SD to arrange her coming over or she called me. I did see him when he picked her up. I was friendly but not any friendlier than I would be to an neighbor.
I did talk to SD. When she was here the other night. Thats the night she told me her Dad had come home at 630 in the am and tried to lie about it. I told her his behavior is not normal and is wrong. . I said it has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with me. There is something not right with him. I said you can't fix him and neither can I. I tried. He needs help that is beyond us. I said I know he loves you as much as he is able to love someone. I don't want you thinking you need to wait for love. You are love able and deserve more. I told her I love her and she has my whole family's love too. I said I will never regret meeting your Dad because he brought me to you. I told her I was sorry as I knew she had been hopeful seeing her Dad moving closer to me before his latest fling. I said I deserve to be happy too so I have to move on from your Dad now.
Im actually a people person. I don't like to be alone for too long. As long as I'm busy and have stuff to do im actually pretty happy. I Have always taken care of myself. I'm in pretty good shape and have never had a problem attracting men. Sometimes I think I'd like to date and sometimes I'm not so sure. I was married for 11 yrs the first time and spent almost 10 yrs with my second H. I like living on my own now. My place is great. I am out a lot so there will be opportunity in the future.
H. Still needs to pay me out some $$ by July once he does I will file for divorce. SD. does know she will have more say in the next year. She knows she can come to me or her Grandparents if she needs to. She's coming to my place for my sons bday dinner on Sunday.
Thanks again 25 yrs. your input is greatly appreciated. Yours too Mom22. I'm sure you can apply some of 25s advice to your sitch too.
Oh and my thoughts on MLC? I was interested in what Wonka had to say about his experinces. I do believe some people go through a " life crisis" I don't believe that gives them a get out of jail free card. I think we all have to be held accountable for our behaviour. I can empathize with someone in crisis. I would not be waiting for 7 yrs. If my H had come around I still would not have jumped right back in. I would have had boundaries. He would have to have gone for IC. Otherwise what is to stop the pattern from repeating itself. If getting stressed and depressed equals blaming my spouse and stepping outside of the marriage then what happens the next time life throws you a curve ball and you are stressed or depressed?
My H. Is not sorry or trying to change. He is acting like an irresponsible adolescent. I don't want that in my life.
You sound pretty together, thats good. You re very active and doing great stuff. Maybe the only thing left for now is to move on for real in yoir head and heart too. Like 25ymlc said maybe the only thing that works if you pretend he is dead. The man you married IS dead in many ways...
My situation does seem similar as i suspect my husband has add/adhd too.
I am convinced that ifyour H and mine too (after 2 affairs and a whole lot of cr@p) do not make a life change and or get professional help, they will never change for long. So yes im glad you re moving on! It may be the only thing that opens their eyes and if not, the only way you (and me) will move on.
Ps. My sisters live in Scotland. Small world.
Thanks Mom22,
I've done a ton of reading and self growth over my life time. I came from a troubled childhood. My Mother as lovely as she was was a chronic Alcoholic and my Father was stressed, angry and emotionally cold. I had three younger brothers and quickly became the parent child. I from the age of 9 remember cooking and taking care of my younger brothers. I would clean so it looked like my Mum did it and try and keep the peace in the house. My Dad would get violent when my Mother drank. Today we would have all been removed from our home.
My first marriage I tried to fix what my parents did wrong. I didn't marriage a drinker but he had anger issues. I had been conditioned to accepting unacceptable behavior. We had four kids together and when he was losing his temper and putting my children at risk. I left. The final straw was when he threw the kitchen table because he couldn't find his keys. My daughter then three was standing new by and could have been injured. She told everyone " my daddy had to leave because he threw the kitchen table." I didn't want my boys growing up repeating this behavior. I was already emotionally detached. It was not easy and he tried initially to make it as hard as possible for me. I was on my own with four kids 3-9. He behaved like most and begged and pleaded now promising to change. He did eventually get help for his anger when he lost his fiancée ( after we were divorced) due to his anger too. Now he has a good relationship with our kids and is a happier person.
I know that my second H. Did love me. He inside is full of insercurities. I think he also partially envied me. He said to me once " everyone always loves you" and it wasn't said nicely. I know he was depressed before the affair. He had lost his Father ( his only living parent) lost his job, found out his Step Mom robbed the Will. He couldn't cope withdrew took it out on me. I wasn't happy either getting next to nothing emotionally from him. When he met his AP she filled his ego. Like many from that area she just wanted to move to Canada and he was ripe for the picking.
My SD is dealing with all the same things that drove me crazy. Constantly waiting. Waiting for him to have time, real time to spend with her. He'll call her and say he'll be home in ten mins. She knows that means an hour. She knows he's late for everything and everyone. That's also where the ADD comes in. They can get so focused or obsessed with something they are doing they lose all sense of time. For years he spent hours and hours researching law to fight for his daughter. Now he is fighting his STep Mom over his Dad's Will spending hours and hours doing that. His DD died of colon ca and she convinced him to change his Will right before he died. Threatening to leave him if he didn't.
I used to say to H. I don't need a lot but I need something from you. I'm a pretty independent person and would go ahead and do things with or without him. He is going to find himself repeating his same patterns over and over again. He's great at the start of a relationship but is unable to carry through. I said to him you know when I have patients that are really sick and dying they are not calling out for their lap tops. I can tell you Mom22 I have had many sad lonely male patients call out for their ex wife or have their ex wife show up to help them at the end. Very sad pathetic waste of their lives.
I know that I was a good wife. Not perfect by any means but a good wife. I deserved the same in return. I am at peace knowing I did everything possible I could have. I have a sweet little dog named "Charlie" she is always happy to see me and is my cuddle bunny now at night. Lol Onward and Upward
Oh and thankfully my adult daughter has a really nice man in her life. They have been together for 3 yrs. they now live together and are planning their life together. He is so good to her and our family loves him.
My daughter had cancer when she was 15. Ewing sarcoma. It was the worst time in all of our lives. She lost her left leg below the knee and under went a year of chemo treatments. We lived at children's hospital one week of every month. Thankfully she had no metastasis and is considered cured. She has never let it hold her back. You would never know she lost part of her leg. She runs, snowboards anything she did before she has relearned. She just had to have tests done to see if she was able to have children. The chemo treatments could have affected her ability to ovulate. the tests came back showing she is producing eggs and will be able to have children of her own. We are all thrilled.
I could write a book about my life lol
Hiya, Karma.
You called me. What is it that you would like to know or how can I help you? Honey, this Wonka is a girl!
Oh so sorry Wonka. Is this the same Wonka that went through their own MLC?
If so having experinced it what is your opinion of the difference between a WAS and midlife crisis? If you read my thread we have had some discussion about it.
Karma,
Oh so sorry Wonka. Is this the same Wonka that went through their own MLC?
Yep, the one and the same. Here's a link to the mind of a former reformed badass MLCer aka as moi. Enjoy! Or NOT.
A Voyage Into The MLCer Mind
Wow...thanks for shring Wonka! This MLC stuff Is as clear as mud. Lol
Now what do you thing...about the difference between a LBS and MLC. 25yrs thinks it's sll an excuse and I can understand why she feels that way. Your thoughts?.
Hi Scott,
I have had some time now to digest our convo from Jan 1. I know when we talked you asked if I wanted a divorce I said no. That was before I heard what you had to say. After hearing where you are are at I have to say that yes I want a divorce. I do not want to be in an open marriage. I accept that you seem to be in a MLC that could take years to work through. After supporting you for many years and helping you achieve soul custody of Mikka I had hoped that we could have given her the life we promised. From what I understand from our talk it doesn't matter what would make Mikka happy or what would make me happy. You are wanting to date with no expectations. Good luck with that. I wish I had known that before supporting you for many years.
It truly saddens me to see you become what everyone else told me you were before me. You told me you didn't want to be the typical married couple. Guess what neither did I. I thought you were going to be a fun companion. I have never been the typical house wife. I was so bored in the house.
I made a slide show today of pics of Ryan. I had to go through many pics to put it together. It made me sad because I saw pics of us. We were happy and looked in love. Have you ever looked back at our pics. It seemed to me you erased all that was good in our past life.
At this point I have to think of you as dead to me. The you that I knew is dead so I have to move on with my life. I am starting to date and seeking s life companion . Our talk was good because it helped me let you go.
I do hope you are planning on paying me out soon. I have planned my mortgage around u paying me out. Considering I spent a good part of my DAds money supporting us and left you with everything in the house I think our agreement is very fair. Please let me know when you are able to do this. Thanks.
I am hoping once you pay me to take Mikka away this summer with Louise and Eileen to Mexico. I have some time off in July.
I hope you find what ever it is that you think will make you happy. I want only the best for you.
Once you pay me out I want to file for divorce either through Steven or Aaron. I don't care.
Loved you once
Kerrie
Sent this tonight
Sent from my iPad
Wonka thank you for sharing. It was enlightening. If you have any advice on my sitch it would be appreciated.
25yrs I sent this email tonight. Thoughts?
Anyone elses thoughts appreciated too
Karma,
A LBS is just that...a left behind spouse whose spouse walked away from the M regardless of the kind of WAS (MLCer or WAS).
Now what do you thing...about the difference between a LBS and MLC. 25yrs thinks it's sll an excuse and I can understand why she feels that way. Your thoughts?.
I will let 25 speak for herself. However, both 25 and I are of the view that the underlying DBing principles continues irrespective if your spouse is a MLCer or WAS which is working on YOU. The danger we both see in some newbies is trying to excuse the WAS' behavior on a potential MLC when oftentimes it is not the case at all which prevents them from using the gift of the time to work on themselves.
In all of my years on the boards, I have told THREE newbies in the Newcomers forum that their spouses were definitely MLCers and referred them to the MLC forum because as a former MLCer I am able to spot a true MLCer from a simple WAS. Those three newbies were Jer, Gwen and GoBlue. Jer and Gwen both have set up their tiki huts over in the MLC pool area while GoBlue chose to hang out in the Newcomers area.
In your sitch, I am reluctant to label your H as a MLCer because I do not have enough information and data to come to that sort of conclusion. To me, your H is a WAS at the moment unless I see additional details to refute it.
Karma12,
I've been following your stich from a distance for a few days now. I find it fascinating for some reason, perhaps because you seem so level-headed, so it's a respite from the frenzy that we so often show in our own threads. I also enjoyed knowing more of your background. Thanks for sharing.
First thing I wanted to say, is that you seem to have a very clear mind and a good idea of what's going on. Some suggest that you need to take a big step, but to me you're already on track. It's normal that you had a glimmer of hope recently and you handled it very well.
Thanks for sharing the letter. I encourage you to post your letters here before you send them. Many people have gotten great advice on how to phrase certain delicate things, avoiding mistakes and embarrassment. Sometimes, the advice is to send nothing! Also, it's unclear how we can help after the fact.
By the way, make sure you replace all names from anything you post here with the usual codes (H, SD11, [lawyer1], etc..) Privacy is taken seriously by the moderators and your stuff might be erased or you could be back in moderation.
I'm not a fan of letters at all, but yours started well and signaled a change of direction (yes to D). I don't think it useful though to guilt H over SD11's happiness, not coming from you. And MWD specifically advises against mentioning old pictures, good memories and the likes. I believe her that it does nothing to the WAS. Also, you still do a lot of hard selling by implying that you two were a good match, that you are what he's looking for. Apparently, this is counterproductive and the only way LBS will believe it is when they come to the same conclusion themselves.
Hope this helps.
Karma,
We advise DBers to post their draft emails/responses here FIRST for feedback and suggestions. Not because you are not capable, but because newbies do not yet have the tools on how to DB effectively through email using the STFU and KISS principles.
Generally speaking, we do NOT encourage sending emails or letters to WAS because it introduces pressure for them and they actually push them away. Writing letters falls under the begging and pleding column. We would not want that, do we? No?
Let's dissect your letter as we cannot unring that bell, shall we?
Hi Scott,
I have had some time now to digest our convo from Jan 1. I know when we talked you asked if I wanted a divorce I said no. That was before I heard what you had to say. After hearing where you are are at I have to say that yes I want a divorce. I do not want to be in an open marriage. What did you hope to acheive with this comment? How's that keeping the road to home paved smooth?? You need to remember that many WASes speak in the absolutes and then later on change again. They're confused and many things escape their mouths that seemingly ring true when the opposite is "true." Make sense? I accept that you seem to be in a MLC that could take years to work through. Will Robinson!! Careful of assigning labels that you know nothing about and are in NO position to do so. How's that helping HIM? Not at all. Right. It does come across as being judgemental and superior to him. Ohh lala. After supporting you for many years and helping you achieve soul custody of Mikka I had hoped that we could have given her the life we promised. From what I understand from our talk it doesn't matter what would make Mikka happy or what would make me happy. Do I detect some resentment in there? Like he owes you something here? You are wanting to date with no expectations. Good luck with that. I wish I had known that before supporting you for many years.
It truly saddens me to see you become what everyone else told me you were before me. Why would you bring other people's opinion in your M? How's that helping you and him? If you were to reconcile with H down the road, how do you think he'll feel about this??! You told me you didn't want to be the typical married couple. Guess what neither did I. I thought you were going to be a fun companion. I have never been the typical house wife. I was so bored in the house. Whose fault is that?? Is your H responsible for your happiness?? I think not.
I made a slide show today of pics of Ryan. I had to go through many pics to put it together. It made me sad because I saw pics of us. We were happy and looked in love. Have you ever looked back at our pics. It seemed to me you erased all that was good in our past life. Slapping my forehead. Did you have to show him how weak you are?? Nope. Be the strong and courageous one. He made the CHOICE to walk away...not you. It is all on him. Yopu know the truth: you have had many, many good happy memories of your M and family. Right now, H is high on OW dopamine so he blocks everything out of his mind where the OW is concerned.
At this point I have to think of you as dead to me. The you that I knew is dead so I have to move on with my life. I am starting to date and seeking s life companion . Are you trying to "prove" something to H by making that sort of comment? Actions speak louder than words. And I know you don't want a D nor date others. Why even say that except to try to iniduce some jealousy in H. That never, never works. Trust me. Our talk was good because it helped me let you go.
I do hope you are planning on paying me out soon. You are in NO position to negotiate with H since you are not even in the D process at all. It just made you look weak in H's eyes. Why? You just created a perception that you "need" H for your needs. I have planned my mortgage around u paying me out. Considering I spent a good part of my DAds money supporting us and left you with everything in the house I think our agreement is very fair. What agreement? There's no agreement at all since you two are not in any D proceedings at this moment. Why get ahead of yourself here? Please let me know when you are able to do this. Thanks.
I am hoping once you pay me to take Mikka away this summer with Louise and Eileen to Mexico. Why do you expect H to pay you? He doesn't owe you vacation money. I am not undrestanding this part at all. Care to explain a bit more? I have some time off in July.
I hope you find what ever it is that you think will make you happy. I want only the best for you.
Once you pay me out I want to file for divorce either through Steven or Aaron. I don't care. Maybe its just me...but this smacks of exortion to me. That's how it came across to me. Imagine how H would view this?
Loved you once
Kerrie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A word to the wise, please post here FIRST before you hit the send button. We could have saved you a world of trouble with this type of thing. I tell all newbies to keep it short and concise to 1 to 2 paragraphs.
Oftentimes, I tell them not to EVER send out anything to the WAS and let their actions speak for themselves.
Hi Wonka and Mozza,
Sorry I should have blocked the names. I didn't think first names would matter as they aren't full names. You are right Mozza it would have been better to post first. Even those of us that are level headed have our moments of weakness. when I realized the names were there I tried to edit but couldn't figure out how to.
Wonka we have a seperation agreement. H. Agreed to buy me out of my half of the house. He did that. He also agreed to pay me out $$ as soon as he was able to or by July of this year at the latest. I know he sold a piece of property and also received a pay out form his last employer. The agreement was made before I knew there was OW so I trusted him. Now not so much. I was very fair and trusted he would follow through. The reason for payout to me was because I had used my money to support us for a number of months. I didn't mind doing it at the time because I thought it will all balance out. I didn't know we would be splitting up so quickly following. H. earns much more than I do and has other propery and assets I never touched. He hasn't mentioned paying me and I'm a little worried he will delay or not follow through. I was telling the truth when I said I had arranged my mortgage around his paying me. I also left all of the furniture as it would have been too big for my condo and didn't ask for any extra money as I thought the pay out was fair. We did not have a prenup and I could have asked for half of everything including his other properties. I didn't. I only wanted back what was mine to start with.
Here the banks won't deal with you unless you have a seperation agreement. It is not a divorce so you can't remarry but it is still legal and binding. If you chose to divorce then the seperation agreement becomes part of the divorce. There is nothing else to do expect to file.
I do think my H. Is/has been in a MLC. He has even admitted it himself. He went through the depression and withdrawal stage. It was like he checked out and our marriage nose dived.
I am thinking Divorce may be the better option for me. 25yrs and others on the board have all suggested I do as well as my own friends and family. I need closure. I still feel too married. Plus I don't want to be his plan B. I feel like his getting closer to me a couple months ago set me back.
I agree with what you are saying Wonka. I know that WAS say things they don't mean. I have to agree though with what 25yrs said to me. I don't want to hold hope that he's going to have a light bulb go off. It's been 2.5 yrs already. I felt like the letter was closure for me. Some of it he will understand more than others reading he because he does know our history. I can't unsend it now.
Thanks for your help. I really am strong and independent. I do live my life. This has been a process. Please stick with me.
I and a long talk with SD's Granma today. I had sent her my letter and she said I'm glad you sent it. She said....there is nothing I would have wanted more than you back in that house with my Granddaughter but he doesn't deserve you and you deserve so much more.
She's right. I do deserve better. I don't want to be with someone that is morally bankrupt. I found out he left SD home on Friday night until after midnight. That's after he was out all night already on Wed. and I had her until ten at night on Thurs. when SD complained about not wanting to be alone he said " I have to have a life" He told her it was her fault she was home alone because he had wanted to go away to his cabin with SD and his new GF. He said for a family weekend. SD said she's not my family and didn't want to go. SD is made because he says he's too busy working to spend time with her yet he has time to stop work and go see his new GF. What kind of example is he setting for her? Seeing him go from woman to woman. It's disgusting. Grandma is coming back early from their Island home because she is so worried about SD.
Soon SD will have a more of a say and she will be able to stay with Grandma more. I'm thinking the good side of ex H ( 25yrs I said ex! ) is really the lesser side and his dark side is who he really is. It just took me longer to accept that.
We are so lucky here to have mild weather. I am heading our for a run. Yesterday I was looking and Looking for my sunglasses. They are Prada ( bought at Norstrom rack) and I swore I put them in my yoga bag. I looked all through my bag. No luck. I checked at the lost and found at my gym. No luck. I checked at the lost and found at my Yoga studio. No luck. Then wheni was lying down at the end of my yoga class it came to me. Had I thrown them into my washing machine with my Yoga towel? I checked when I got home and sure enough there they were. Luckily they had been inside the towel and not damaged going through a wash cycle. Hahaha. Note to self check towel before throwing it in the machine.
Strange little thing I noticed about myself. While I went through my recent period of wondering if STBX and I would maybe reconcile my balance was way off in my yoga class. It was frustrating me because I had better balance a couple of months back. Now since I decided to move ahead in my life without STBX and file for D. My balance is much better again. I think the Universe was sending me a message! Lol
Went for a run, the gym now heading to hot yoga. Tonight dinner out with a friend.
I thought about all the emotional abuse and mixed signals from Stbx. I let myself get sucked back in ( emotionally ). Now I know better. No more smooth paved road home. I just lay tire poppers out on the road home. Lol
25yrs thanks for helping me go from saying H. To Stbx. Thanks to you all for your input. I read and read posts getting more out of them each time.
Home after a nice night out. Feeling better and stronger in my choices. ; )
Quote: You are never asked to do more than you are able
Without being given the strength and ability to do it
Wow...thanks for shring Wonka! This MLC stuff Is as clear as mud. Lol
Now what do you thing...about the difference between a LBS and MLC. 25yrs thinks it's sll an excuse and I can understand why she feels that way. Your thoughts?.
I do NOT think "it's all an excuse". I said I worry that there are some who mistakenly focus on it and don't recognize that they must work on themselves no matter what.
There are some who believe that IF it's MLC, then they can just sit and wait and hope. That somehow it means their spouse is more likely to return...that they have no work to do...and they love to mock the "Crazy MLCer", rather than working on their lives...
I believe that
The LBS course of action,
to GAL, do 180s and become a spouse only a fool would leave,
is the same, regardless of whether it's an MLC or a WAS.
THAT^^ was the point I was trying to make.
I know I spent way too much time focussed on what my H was thinking and dong and planning and endlessly asking "WHY??" (A question with no "good" answer).
I worry that too many lbs'ers focus on the WAS rather than on creating a more fulfilling life for themselves and their kids.
But SOME spouses who leave, are not like others. SOME have inner issues that are not very related to the marriage and IF they work whatever the heck that is,
they MAY be more likely to have an awakening of their own, but I can't say that this would not occur, anyway.
IN some ways, I wonder what difference it makes.
But Wonka has another theory and makes good points. I'm not comfortable being put in a position where one of us has to be made wrong on such a nebulous matter.
Hope this helps in some small way.
Hi 25yrs Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I misunderstood. I didn't think either of you were wrong. I thought you both had some valid points. I have learned a lot from what you have posted on my and others threads.
I agree with what you are saying. It is easy to become obsessed with the "whys"
I think my ex has issues that are most definenately beyond the marriage.
I allowed myself to get sucked back in a few months ago and it set me back. I'm moving forward now without the hope of reconciliation. My ex hasn't changed and I would not be happy being back were we were.
Thanks again for all of you much appreciated comments and insights. I hope you will stick by me as I move forward.
Jbird thanks for the support!
No exercise today ( other than dog walks ) . Heading out for a little retail therapy. Lol
Thinking today that I am blessed. I have a beautiful condo. I am in good health and fit. I have amazing adult children and a SD that I am close too. I have a little dog that loves me 24/7. It is sunny and spring like temps here. I know who I am and what my values are. I am a wife that only a fool would leave. I'm on my own now and that's ok.
Retail therapy successful! I bought and new sweater 70% off. Lol
Just realized I sent my letter to my ex with my second hotmail address. One he doesn't have. It's probably in his Junk mail. Oh well. I will I think as him to meet me for coffee in a few weeks. I want to discuss SD, his paying me what he owes and filing for divorce.
Just heading to bed. I have to get up early in the morning and take care of all the sick people. Lol
This will make a few of you laugh. I was texting with My friend to night. She was asking for my advise after a weekend of fighting with her BF. She was putting lots of pressure on him. I told her sometimes you have to learn to STFU. She texted back what's STFU? Hahahah.
Hi Karma,
Im sorry you are in such an uncertain state about the pay out. Its horrible. I lent my H €17.000,- in Dec 2013 and he s starting to stall his payments. His bonus turned out €950,- instead of €1400,- so i got €650,- instead of €1000,-. No asking permission nothing. Its very unnerving and feels very unfair. Can relate.
The only thing I think you can do is get the divorce proceedings started and request the judge pay out must be made before its finalized...?
I think the respons to your email text was good advice. It was formulated a bit harsh, but i agree with the basics. I think you tr generally much more together and db-smart. Maybe thats with the tough live :-) Everyone has an off day...
Again I commend your support of your SD.
However i dont think scolding your ex-H will work. i mean you ve seen it doesnt work. So its not helping you or your SD. He just doesnt want to hear it. You will become the enemy if you continue, its opposite to what DB advizes. Though its natural you want to help your SD who is hurting. But...it doesnt work... And HE and he alone will suffer the consequences of his actions. And all you can do is be there for SD. You can not prevent her pain. Unfortunately.
In very happy to hear your D has come through her cancer so well. Its a joy to see your kids happy.
You are strong and have your own life and lucky enough to be able to enjoy motherhood, the best experience in the workd.
Move on. Divorce. Do a 180 but for you! It is now up to him to change. Maybe the 180 will hrlp or the divorce. Maybe not. But be happy!!!! Big big hug
Hi Mom22,
Thanks for your support.
The truth is the letter was more for me. I needed my own closure. Funny thing is he may not have got it. I didn't realize I was in my other email acct. it's prob sitting in his junk mail.
My ex would not have got soul custody on his own. He was granted it because the judge thought I was a good maternal role model and we had a two parent home.
I was at every L appt. , therapist for SD appts, . Ex asked for my help with bringing up SD. I was at her first day of school, her first sleep over at his house.
He cried about the unfairness of his lack of time with his D and fought for more. He was good with her up until we got her full time. He said things would be better once we got her because he would be less stressed. I was patient waiting and waiting for him to have more time for us.
Once we had SD. He withdrew and checked out from me and her. I got frustrated pretty quick. Especially as I was having to
Be the primary parent.
SD was seeing a therapist to help with the transition from her Mums to our house. She too saw a switch go off in my ex. She told him he owed it to me and SD to figure things out. That if we split it would cause a huge setback for SD. SD was so upset when we split she didn't go to school for two days. She told her Therapist that I was taking care of her and she didn't want me to go. The therapist was about to suggest sharing custody again with bio mom. She said I was the emotional buffet as ex H was not emotionally engaging. With me not in the home this changed things.
Next he brought his Ap into the home and Bio Mom died. He brought his AP to the funeral to the horror of everyone. His sister sat with me. SD had me move out Mom die and a strange woman move in all within six mths.
SD is going through the same things I was at home. Constantly waiting for him to have time for her. He was great with me at first and great with her but it doesn't last.his AP left too because he was no longer spending time with her.
Now he's seeing yet a new woman. Leaving SD alone. SD is angry now. He was too busy with work before to spend time with her but now he had time to go see his new GF. She said other kids go home to a family. It's dark when she walks to the school bus and he doesn't walk her. She's going to either leave to live with her Grandma is a year or get herself in trouble.
SD was hopeful we would reconcile after ExH made efforts to get closer to me. It wasn't just me that was lead on. The three of us had been spending time together going for dinners, watching movies.
I would like to throttle Ex. H.
I know that there is something not right with him. It just breaks my heart that his D has had to deal with all these changes.
No exercise today ( other than dog walks ) . Heading out for a little retail therapy. Lol
Thinking today that I am blessed. I have a beautiful condo. I am in good health and fit. I have amazing adult children and a SD that I am close too. I have a little dog that loves me 24/7. It is sunny and spring like temps here. I know who I am and what my values are. I am a wife that only a fool would leave. I'm on my own now and that's ok.
I really love this^^^attitude. It is key to living well, for anyone.
In my 2nd pregnancy I was hospitalized with pneumonia and a herniated disc. I felt pretty sorry for myself and felt miserable.
There was a full moon I could see thru the window. I found myself thinking of all the pregnant women in the world seeing that same moon....and then it occurred to me that for many of them, they'd be out in the open looking at that moon, not in a shelter or hospital .
I realized that many of them were not going to give birth in a hospital at all, and that many of them probably wondered if their husbands (if they had one) were coming home that night, or were alive, or fleeing or hiding from soldiers, or warlords or rival tribes. (The number of people in that situation was in the millions).
I thought about how many women, world wide, had a refrigerator at home, or one with food in it at home, or a home at all. And or electricity and or running water.
I was not worried that our son was being kidnapped or recruited for a rival warlord, or that I could not worship as I want, or vote, or drive, or wander free.
None of those things have ever been withheld from me.
Our son is healthy, as was I (well, I was improving!) as was my h.
In that moment, I was reminded that just by being a westernized woman with an income, my situation put me in the top 5% of women's, globally.
Karma, aside from material wealth and safety, (which are big things), you have your health (huge "asset") AND you have healthy children and a wonderful stepdaughter who loves & needs you.
Yes, you are indeed blessed.
In a sweet irony, the woman who knows this^^, is even more richly deserving.
((( )))
--
I will I think as him to meet me for coffee in a few weeks. I want to discuss SD, his paying me what he owes and filing for divorce.
May I ask what there is to discuss? I'm being sincere. Are there risks to informing him in advance? Why bother?
Are you hoping, deep down, that the "talk" will really be an attempt to "wake" him up?
As long as you truly have no expectations of him "changing!", is this a way to reduce legal fees?
What could he say to stall you from filing? B/C my guess is, that's what he'll say.
Wow 25yrs. Thank you for sharing. That was beautifully written.
I work on a Nero surgical ward. I am reminded daily how precious life is.
i have held the hand of many as they have taken their last breath. I feel it is an honor to assist someone from this life to the next. Life is a gift.
Sorry 25yrs I missed your question.
No I have no expectations. Im feeling quite done.
He has until July 1 at the latest to pay me 75k. In a few weeks. Maybe March April. I want to talk to him find out when this will happen. I'd rather not have to go to a lawyer. Our agreement is legal and binding. I'll file once he pays me out.
I know that my W was done....but even after I told her i would file and then i did file she tried to convince me to stop the process due to financial changes that would occur. She asked me to just live separate and continue to pay the bills like we were but to feel free to date and do as I pleased.
It was about our things together. Not about US. I couldn't do that.
Be careful of why they might ask you to hold up on making this thing official....it may just be for convenience. My 2 cents.
Ps don't do anything if you can't follow it through (I.e. File for D) or if its just out ofnanger or to "wake them up". No sense wasting the time and money if you're not really ready.
Hi Paul, thanks for weighing in. Mine has to pay me out regardless. I'm not sure why he hasn't filed for D. For me it's about my personal values and respect
Life is too short
Grudges are a waste of perfect happiness
Laugh when you can, apologize when you should &
Let go of what you can't change
Today's mantra
Its a horrible situation for your SD. Icome from a divorced family and know that its better to be loved and cared for by 1 parent (or S parent or gran) then live with someone who doesnt care. Its horrible. But you cant change it. You can not change his behaviour towards SD. All you can do is be there for her. She will have to live with the scars and he with the regret. Tho it might not come until his deathbed.
If he doesnt show signs of paying you, enforce it through court and get a debt collector.
I m praying for you and your SD!
Thanks Mom22,
I believe in the power of prayer. I will be praying for you too.
We both deserve so much more and we are smart enough to know it.
Im praying for your money too lol!
Hi all,
I wanted to share a success story with you. My Brother went through a divorce three yrs ago after 19 yrs of marriage. His wife was a WAS. He was devasted and spend many hours talking to me about it. They also have a daughter that is 8.
A year after he met a woman online ( he had been dating for a while ) that he really liked. My brother also has Polycistic kidney disease. This was passed down from our mother. It causes fluid filled cysts that affect your renal function. My brothers kidneys were doing ok until two yrs ago. He got an infection in his bladder that knocked his already challenged kidneys right down. He was almost in complete kidney failure and told it would soon be Dialyisis or a transplant.
The woman he met became his fiancée. She insisted on being tested and was a perfect match. Last November her kidney was transplanted into my brother and last January they were married.
My brother went from depressed and hopeless to new life ( literately) and new wife.
I am sharing this because sometimes we hold on so tight to something or someone that no longer serves us. We have know idea that sometime amazing may be waiting us. Sometimes we have to let go and have faith.
My brother has been blessed with a life he never would have had if he had stayed in his marriage. He never realized that it ending was actually a gift.
When we ask for messages and signs we often think it will be something obvious. There is a reason for everything that happens in live. We just don't always understand it at the time. Good night all. Sweet dreams!
Beautiful story. Im so happy for your brother.
I agree sometimes you have to truely let go. And no longer expect the other person to come back to you. Sometimes they do but if they dont... Maybe another door will open.
Thanks Mom22 for your always welcome input.
I heard my phone text chime while I was asleep. I didn't think much of it as my son who lives in the UK will often send a text or a message on our Family what's app.
I checked it this morning when I got up and it was text from STBX. He sent it at 245 am. He was responding he said to a text from last week. We had texted when I had SD last Sunday and he mentioned having to see a lawyer about his Fathers Will. I had responded to that text with only " how did it go?" He never responded. Last nights text he went on at length about all that occurred at the Lawyers, having to research all week, he went to court ect ect. Plus he apologized for not texting back sooner. Said he finally had a minute to breathe.
I thought WTF.? I think he either didn't get my email. ( I noticed later I sent it from my second email address and it may have gone into his junk mail) or he's testing the water thinking I was maybe ranting and ok now. When we first started getting closer a few months ago it started with him finding weird reasons to text me and it was usually late at night. I know this is mind reading but I think late at night when he is alone with not as many distractions is when he does some thinking.
In the past. I would have been his support person through all this stuff he's dealing with in regards to his Dad's Will. I knew his Dad and I know all the history. Just like I was there for him through his custody issues over his daughter. Since our talk Jan 1 I have kept my distance and I'm sure he's noticing something has shifted with me. Even if he didn't read my email.
It didn't go unnoticed that his text was all about him and what he was dealing with. He never asked how I was. It was kinda funny to see him having a conversation with himself via my text at 245 am as it was obvious I wasn't answering.
I decided I'm not going to mention the email. In my mind if it was meant to be he would have seen it. I really wrote it more for me. I do still want to address his owing me $$ and seeking a D. But I will wait until early Spring and ask him then.
I need advice re the text. I haven't responded. I was thinking of responding tonight or tomorrow with a simple " sounds like a lot of stress. If you continue to be busy at court I'll take SD one night next week when I'm off."
That would be a 180 for me as I usually respond quickly and my past pattern would be to help fix it. Getting into discussions about what he could do or try ect. This way I'm validating but bringing it back to SD. I also could just not respond at all.
Thoughts? I'm asking first this time. Lol
Hi Karma
thats a good story about your brother - thank you for sharing it
with regard to the text response, if you do decide to respond then i'm not sure about the wording
sounds like a lot of stress. If you continue to be busy at court I'll take SD one night next week when I'm off."
The second part of this could easily be read as a 'fix' - as in 'if its too much for you to cope then i will help fix it this for you by looking after SD'
You could say pretty much the same thing but without suggesting he cant handle it. for example
'that sounds like a lot to do and i'd imagine quite stressful? I'm sure you'll get it sorted fine though. I'm off next week would it be possible to arrange for SD to spend some time with me?'
Others are much better than me at scripting
It sounds a bit like what my WAW is doing to me, trying to connect in different ways. The advice I've gotten here and elsewhere is to ignore it. I simply don't respond. It's a way to make them feel their loss and for us to detach. It's taking her a lot of time to stop, but I think we got there in the last week. She still chatted me last week to offer a book recommendation though. I didn't see it until 3 days later and, again, chose to ignore it. I'm going for the DB Soldier of the Year award.
I understand the desire to reply. But when I resigned myself to stay silent, I feel better and prouder. Also, your email kind of suggests you were done. He might find it later even if he hasn't read it yet. I know I sometimes verify my junk mail folder.
Life is too short
Grudges are a waste of perfect happiness
Laugh when you can, apologize when you should &
Let go of what you can't change
Today's mantra
I might make this a "Life Mantra" b/c it's very good.
Hi all thanks for the feedback.
At the moment I will do nothing. I agree with your rewording Jim if I do decide to reply. It would make more sense to wait until I'm wanting to make plans with SD. I just had lunch with her and her Grandma. 😃
You are right Mozza it is more empowering to chose to say silent. I'm one of those overly polite people that always thinks I should reply or it's rude. In this case it's not. It's again about him and what I can give him. He could have had all my support. He chose not too. I check my junk mail too. I can see my ex not checking though. He has a hard time keeping up with what is in his inbox! Lol I'm the organized one.
Thanks for always bring a smile to my face 25yrs. Your energy brings me up. I agree it makes a great life Mantra.
I have the same thing wanting to be polite,
I do feel nit responding at all would be rude. But maybe wait at least 3-5dsys.
Then reword. And dont bring up SD.
If you want to see her, you can always let her ask and it ll look like her idea.
Hard not to be hopeful after that text huh... Im a s<ckers for stuff like that too. But Ive become bery very wary.
Life is too short
Grudges are a waste of perfect happiness
Laugh when you can, apologize when you should &
Let go of what you can't change
Today's mantra
Karma that is a great mantra, now if I can only live it!
This ones good too. I just read it today.
" There is a difference between giving up and knowing when you've had enough."