OK Friends
Here is my old an apparently locked thread -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...119#Post2515119I am still working the plan but evenings and mornings are very hard still. I feel like giving up during those times. I feel so alone and desperate. I feel like I can't do this.
My WAW continues her affair, expects me to be cool with it. I have GAL and am much more social than before. I have made a list of 3- 4 goals which I am diligently working on.
My WAW continues to ask me for "patience" and be comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. That is again not my strong suit.
I am giving her space, don't contact her unless it's about kids. That helps. She keeps throwing the affair in my face which is galling. I have chosen to not respond when she does that.
I am looking to this board for support and guidance that I am doing the right thing and trying to right my sinking ship. I look at this board daily for updates and notes from the kind people here.
WE have an upcoming day trip to Disney for our D6 which I am very nervous about. I honestly don't know how I can do a whole day without being a wreck. I of course won't bring up any touchy subjects. I want to ask that we both put away our phones, no texts, no emails, no phone calls, just focus on family time together. I think that is a reasonable request.
Thank you DB Forum and God Bless. Please chime in with suggestions, comments, rebukes if necessary.
JAN
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...920#Post2515920This is the link to my other Newcomers Board
I was confused at first how and where to post. Apologies abot that.
Trying to look into myself -looking for self awareness
Always have been protective of my inner cie whic is nam protectiln strategy
From moving much as Army brat. Don't let your options show
With people as you will only get hurt when you have to
Leave again. I can see now how this strategy has
Been damaging to those I love most. They see it
As emotuonally distant- I saw it as self protection.
I think this is an insight - potential breakthrough?
So what would you do differently?
Welcome to your new thread.
Cade - I don't honestly know. Try to be open to oher people and to their pain. I am trying to be open to my pain. I am trying to be real about my vulnerabilities and how I have tried so hard to mask them over the years and how it all crashed down on me. I have been cold to others and unmoved by their pain. I am ashamed of that aspect of my character. It is if I viewed feelings as negative and harmful and how I must suppress them.
I will work on leting myself authentically feel and see/hear others feelings more. I will work on empathy fo myself and others in this world.
Cade - I don't honestly know. Try to be open to oher people and to their pain. I am trying to be open to my pain. I am trying to be real about my vulnerabilities and how I have tried so hard to mask them over the years and how it all crashed down on me. I have been cold to others and unmoved by their pain. I am ashamed of that aspect of my character. It is if I viewed feelings as negative and harmful and how I must suppress them.
I will work on leting myself authentically feel and see/hear others feelings more. I will work on empathy fo myself and others in this world.
I'm going to push you a little bit here -- what does authentically feeling and identifying others feelings look like for you? How would you show vulnerability? How would you measure yourself and identify success with doing this?
Have you started seeing an IC? I can't remember.
NAJ, watch Brene Brown's TED talk called The Power of Vulnerability. 20 minutes very well spent for anyone, especially people like us going through the biggest crisis of our lives.
Just watched the Brene Brown's TED tall- thanks for the suggestiom - it was just what I needed to hear/feel.
Yes, living with vulnerability takes courage and honesty. It is a very tough concept that you can love someone and trust them yet, there is no guarantee they will love you or reciprocate that trust. Wow. That resonated deeply with me. I have always been relucant to share my real self with the world for fear of rejection because
1) - Belief that I am not truly loveable
2). Not willing to be 100% open to myself and the word and others as it will lead to rejection
3). Shame that I am not loveable, thus I live a closed life, it's safer, more predictable but a limited way to live.
These are all things I will work on over time.
a). I am loveable
b). I will open myself up to the joys and pain of the world and other people in the efforts to connect authentically
c). Eliminate shame through conscious efforts to let people see/hear/experience the real me, warts and all.
How I will measure success to the above is by the following:
I will have more friends and be open to sharing my life more with others outside of my family of origon.
I will volunteer more and work towards connecting with people (girl scout troop leader)
Let people see/hear me and the painful and difficult situations in my life. I will work on letting go of judgement or fear of what others will think of me.
JAn,
My suggestion for the Disney trip is to go for about two to three hours then leave saying that you need to organize for the pizza party. Perhaps invite a few of D6's friends to come a long and rope in other parents to chaperone. Maybe one other Mom or Dad.
Let people see/hear me and the painful and difficult situations in my life. I will work on letting go of judgement or fear of what others will think of me.
A word to the wise: the ideal way would be one or two of your most trusted friends/people. You don't want to frighten people off with sharing the most deep and dark secrets right off bat. Friendships take time to develop and nurture. Try to be mindful of this, ok?
Love your goals.
What are your weekend plans?
Update
Today I was dropping off my 2 kids. Unfortunately I had gotten sick, barfed and was having a bit of trouble. My WAW pulled into the parking spot behind me (I was not expecting to see her at all) and took the kids into school.
She texted me today and asked how I was feeling. I did not reply. She texted m to see how our S9 holiday party went, I did not reply.
She stopped by my office at work, sat down and asked how I was feeling. I was surprised she stopped by and was pleasant but distant. She asked me to "tell her" when situations like being sick come up. I said "OK, nodded and said I hear you". She said "I need to know so I can help".
She made some idle chit chat and I just sat there and looked at her. She got up to leave and I just said bye.
I did not initiate any convo, just answered her questions, validated what she was saying and then said bye. We made eye contact for about 30 seconds which was weird.
Summation - was this a good example of DB technique (detach) or not. I am never sure what I am doing is "right" or will lead to my goal. The interacton did not feel mean, just distant as if I were talking to a neighbor.
Thoughts anyone???
Great suggestion Cadet.
Got a lot from it. Will probably watch multiple times.
Hi Wonka
Thanks for the reply. As for Disney, she wants us to ride from LA to Disney Land - about an hour drive, stay for the day and then come back. That is a lot of time in the car with her. This makes me really nervous, plus I will feel like a captive all day.
As this is for my D6, there were no other plans for anyone other than family - me - WAW, S9 and D6.
Jan,
I don't know how the convo went as we're getting only bits and pieces of it. What did you mean by validating what W said? There's nothing in that post on what W said to you.
It's okay to respond to W's texts. Just be sure to keep them to the point and on the topic at hand. KISS and STFU, remember?
You really didn't have to answer her question about what "situations occur" that makes you vomit. You could say, "eh...I think it's indigestion from some food I ate recently." You don't need to nor obligated to tell W every damn little detail about your business. W lost that right since her A with the OW.
She wants me to tell her if I need help when I get sick. I have IBS and they makes me sick and I struggle with it. One part of me wants to be able to reach out and ask for her help like I used to. Noe I don't reach out to her even when I need to. I am trying to be strong and independent - I am trying to project confidence not neediness. So when she told me to call her if I needed to I acted cool .
Correct approach or not?
Jan,
Ahhh....I see now what you mean. IBS isn't fun at all. I hear that certain foods can contribute to it. Aren't you on a special diet for your IBS?
I think you did good there with your responses to W.
The deal is as long as she is with the ap I keep no contact right? Obviously we have kids so I have to communicate on the kid level but everything g else is a no - is that right? Or does no contact just push her further away??
I have the same doubts. Of course if we have NC, we just feel further and further away from our S - hence the counter intuitiveness of DB.
As you are S, it sounds as though you should be in LRT. Have another read of the LRT section in DR, which should apply to your sitch...I do that whenever I doubt.
Of course, the further away we get, the more our S may want to get closer again. Having some contact about the kids is also a chance for your work on yourself to be noticed...
I am glad to know I am not the only one with doubts. Of course I obsess and think she is having a wonderful time with her AP. Maybe she is and maybe she isn't, I really don't know. I know I have to stop obsessing and GAL.
I will reread LRT and think about it from that perspective.
Last night, I did send her the videos I took of our D6 and her school performances. I didn't make any negative comments about why she wasn't there, just - here is our D6 and she did a wonderful job, I hope you enjoy. I sent them from a place of love and not of spite. I hope she saw them as that, but I would not be surprised if she thought I sent them to be pursuing. I did not hear anything from her about the videos so again, I am in the dark.
Today is a day of action shopping, final gift wrapping, etc...
I hope your day is good and you have a day full of love for yourself.
NAJ
Thanks Wonka for the advice. I am always happy to see you have posted. I think you are a wise DBuster.
Best wishe
NAJ
So My WAW has always had a problem with my Mom and my lack our boundry issues.My WAW complained that I put my Mom before her and in retrospect I agree that I did not see boundries with my Mom. I regret that deeply.
Anyway, I talked to my Mom about this issue and how it has impacted my marriage in a negative way. This was very hard to do and hard for my Mom to hear, but we did have a good conversation about it.
My Mom called my WAW today, left a message on her phone about Merry Christmas and how sorry she is to know of the difficulties my WAW and I are experiencing. She said she loved her and that she hoped we could work it out. I wonder what my WAW will think about this.
My Mom has NEVER done anything like this, not once during my 19 year relationship with my WAW. My WAW texted me and said did I put her up to this which I said no.
I called my WAW and we talked about some deep issues relating to how we were raised, and what she is wanting from life now. She said she felt used all of her life and that people just want things from her, want her to fix things and they don't seem to love her for just being her. I empathized and said that must be an awful feeling.
I told her that I have realized I am dealing with shame issues, mainly shame from being gay and the repurcussions that all of that brings. Dealing wiht my family or origin has been hard for me with this issue. I told her how I recognize that and how I recognize that I have let me happiness elude me and how I have been just trying to make her and others happy and not living for my joy. She agreed that takes the joy out of life and builds resentments. I said I recognize and working on those issues.
I told he I am learning about needs and wants. Needs denote ownership and implies property and wants are more an expression of love and connection desires. I am working on this issue too.
We talked for about 17 minutes which is more than we have talked in a long time. I did not bring up any R issues nor did I press her on anything she is doing. I ended it with I want you to be happy in whatever form that brings.
So, I am getting kids ready to go last minute shopping and have put on Christmas music. We hopefully have a play date and Christmas party tonight at 6.
Thank you all for reading and listening. It means to much to have found this online community. God bless.
So today's therapy session was terrible.
My WAW wife has taken off her rings, rants about how much she wants to divorce me and what a mental case I am. Christ that was really hard to sit there.
It seems that everything I do, any text, any drop off or pick up with the kids, everything makes her ANGRY at me.
She emailed yesterday that she wanted to take the kids to Utah for their entire spring break. I said I wanted half of the time to do something with them. Of course she BLEW up and flipped out and accuses me of being a hag. The parenting deal was 3 days each. Maybe I should have let her take the kids for the whole two weeks buts its too late now.
I am so over all of this. I asked her to lets concentrate,just the two of us, no third parties (her AP) to let's divorce, work this out, figure out what's best for the kids and she refuses to stop being with AP.
Do I just file and be done with this farce? How can I negotiate this while she is involved with her AP. It's truly like she is another horrible person that I cannot reach. The wife I had for 19 years is dead and gone.
She agreed to therapy for next week. I honestly don't know why we continue with it.
Any thoughts from my friends on this forum?
The advice I'm giving myself is to act as if the relationship is dead and buried (she's someone else's girlfriend now and until that ends I have no chance) and as horrible as that is I need to make decisions on that basis.
So for your situation I think you need to make your decisions based on what you want moving forward as a single person and effective coparent.
Having said that in my communication with my W I don't even dignify the existence if OM. In fact she might even think I don't know.
I will adopt that strategy - the AP does not exist .
Jan,
First question: why are you and W in therapy in the first place? For what purpose are you attending those C sessions? What type of therapy is this?
If it is MC, then it is ineffective as long as the WAS is in active A with OW/OM because they're not truly and fully committed to working on the M since they are pretty consumed with the dopamine feelings as a result of the A. A lot of the times the WASes will show up in MC so they can claim that they've "tried everything." The trouble with this faulty thinking is that they have this one foot out of the door which is incredibly unfair to themselves, the LBS, and their families.
If this is indeed the case, I'd suggest that you pull the plug and cease attending those sessions. We've advised the same course of action to HP in his thread. For all DBers who are in your shoes. MC and the WAS in an active affair are like oil and water.
You cannot reason or argue your way about "working things out" among yourselves without the OW. Any mention of OW will make your W feel "protective" of her...as wacky as it sounds to you. It is soo true and I've actually witnessed it myself with my own fetching, sexy eyes with Ms. Wonka and her OW.
Here's a plan of action going forward:
-Look past the OW (don't mention her name or acknowledge her)
-Drop out of the MC sessions
-Don't initiate stuff with W (ie videos of kids)
-Go dark (DO NOT...I repeat...DO NOT contact W unless it is an emergency)
- When you're feeling anxious, fearful, or just plain worn out....do not act based on your emotions for they're like passing clouds
-DO NOT file for D if this is not what you want (we know that you don't)
In nearly TEN years, I've never acknowledged Ms. Wonka's OW. That was my boundary. Until recently. Grrrrrrrr....BUT Ms. Wonka clearly knows where I stand regarding her OW. I've written about it in my thread over in the surviving the big D forum.
How about going back and re-reading RT's threads? RealityTrip has DB'd beautifully...of course there were missteps...and she's happily reconciled with her W.
Hang in there, Jan. Keep going like
Rocky.
Thanks Wonka for insights and hope
The therapy is not marital therapy as my WAW has emphatically stated, but therapy to help us communicate better as co-parents. WTF is how I feel about it. Maybe I should just drop out of it.
My WAW angrily told me an the therapist today she is over this marriage, had her rings off and said she is going to save up money and file for divorce. Previously, she did not want me to file. She said she is beyond trying to work this out because it's just "pretty words".
She said the problem is not her affair, but her being unhappy in our relationship. "The affair was the catalyst I needed to see how broken our marriage truly is" were her exact words. She has rewritten our 19 year marriage as being all terrible which is simply not true.
I sat there while she ranted on about how angry she was I was late for the therapy appointment (translation, I disrespected her), what a chitty person I was for wanting 50% of my kids spring break time, how I didn't get her, etc... spew...spew....spew.
I stated that I wanted to give our family the best chance, let's the two of us focus on the the marriage/divorce and work something out. I said I could not negotiate with her when there is a 3rd party involved. She was pissed off with that and refused. I told her how sad I was that 4 little kids are having to suffer because of all of this. I realize this was a mistake, but it just came out. As soon as I said it, I knew it was a mistake, but there it was.
After the therapy session, my WAW and I emailed/called and worked out the spring break thing, I left her have the kids for the week if she let me have them for my week off work in January. So that issue worked out after all.
So, I will drop out the therapy sessions
Not send any photos or videos of kids
Go dark dark dark
Hi NAJ,
I read your posts and my heart breaks for you. As a fellow LBS, I feel like giving up all of the time. It is so hard not to, when you see no light at the end of the tunnel. My advice to you is to run, read, paint, do anything to get your mind off of it, even if for only 5 minutes. The relief doesn't always last (mine never does) but it helps you go a little farther, and then a little farther more...
Hang in there.
Jan,
What kind of therapy is it? What is the therapist's background? Sometimes therapists do more harm than help which is why I'm asking those questions to get a better picture here.
My WAW angrily told me an the therapist today she is over this marriage, had her rings off and said she is going to save up money and file for divorce. Previously, she did not want me to file. She said she is beyond trying to work this out because it's just "pretty words".
Spoken like a typical WAS. Now you, I hope by now, do realize and make the connection on the importance of making changes and being consistent. No WAS wants to return to the old marriage if they do not see those consistent changes.
She said the problem is not her affair, but her being unhappy in our relationship. "The affair was the catalyst I needed to see how broken our marriage truly is" were her exact words. She has rewritten our 19 year marriage as being all terrible which is simply not true.
Your W has got it all wrong. Going out and getting involved in an A isn't the best way to handle this. Please try not to take it personally for all WASes try to vilify and demonize us. Why else would they leave such wonderful spouses unless we're the spawn of Satan. I've heard some really awful things when Ms. Wonka was re-writing our marital history. She practically threw EVERYTHING at me except the kitchen sink.
I stated that I wanted to give our family the best chance, let's the two of us focus on the the marriage/divorce and work something out. I said I could not negotiate with her when there is a 3rd party involved. She was pissed off with that and refused. I told her how sad I was that 4 little kids are having to suffer because of all of this. I realize this was a mistake, but it just came out. As soon as I said it, I knew it was a mistake, but there it was.
Tattoo this on your forehead: STFU about working on M.
Your W is not interested in the M or working on it in any fashion at this stage. Not as long as she's in an A with the OW. No more trying to reason with her or trying to convince her. Not happening.
What are the Christmas plans this week?
Hello Jan. Just seconding what Wonka said... Your W said almost exactly what my W said about her A... that's it's not the problem but a symptom of her feelings about the M which is true but does not justify her choice like she would hope. Even so, and as hard as it is to take... there is no reasoning with W while in the A. I tried discussions too and even heard my W to talk about how wrong and awful her decisions were... but their words mean nothing. Their saying sorry means nothing. Even if it makes them miserable and angry they'll keep at it as long as it's not too painful.
You'll have to STFU about your needs and feelings and leave her to live without them. I'm right there with you... wanting to share your feelings with the person you have for years. It will just hurt you more. Grow into your best self instead.
Wonka advised me just now about daily affirmations. I found apps that do that and will just do that everyday. Do my best to fill myself and my days with positivity and positive action. Maybe some of that spreads to W when she's around. Maybe not. Let's just be better, imagine a better life for ourselves without our Ws, and keep moving towards it.
Wonka and HPoirot and Faith20
Thank you for responding. Reading your words makes me feel better and feel like I am not alone in this never ending nightmare.
Wonka - the therapist is more or a child focused, pediatric psychologist dealing with autism mostly, family issues, etc... I have cancelled any further interaction with her. She is a nice lady but not helping us. We got hooked up with her as our son had some significant health issues when he was 2. I am done with her.
STFU - I know, I know but so hard. I am working on myself, have my own therapist (licensed marriage family therapist), talk things thorough and am super involved with my two wonderful children. I am getting more active in my new church, making play dates for my kids and am going to be a Girl Scout Leader of my daughter's new troop.
Patience is a skill I have to learn better, I can do it but I am a novice, a beginner.
My Mom keeps telling me to file, my wife now wants to file, and at times I want to file just to end the roller coaster.
I will be PATIENT.
HPoirot - are you divorced or just separated - your tag line is a little ambigous?
Christmas plans include a holiday luncheon, spending the Christmas with my kids and playing in the park, stress free.
Thanks again for the wise words - I will do my best.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday's, etc...
Jan,
You wrote this over in HP's thread:
So I ask myself - what is she mad about - she's having the AP?
1. She is mad that I did not "love her" like she wanted. She is mad that I was not emotionally vailable.
2. She is made that when she made the request about letting her participate in an affair with the AP and I said no.
3. She is mad that I sugested she move out when she would not stop with the AP. I made he move out when she told me it was now a PA, not just an EA.
4. She is mad because.... "I am being dificult" with the kids schedules, finances, etc....
She is a mad wet hen. She has caused so much chaos and confusion and yet she seems very pleased with herself and the impact this has caused on me and our kids. She does not give me the right to be angry and upset and acts like I should just get over it, like it's a walk in the park.
I feel like she has taken away my right to my feelings, compltely steamrolled and when i do show my indignation or anger, I am "the bad guy". I can't win.
Other than going dark, there is nothing else I can do. Correct?
Oh yeah...there's plenty you can do in DBing! Plenty, my friend.
1) Stick to your boundary of not living in an open M
2) Focus on your own 180s and make sure those changes are what YOU can live with
3) Don't be a doormat and allow W to ride roughshod over you willy nilly
4) Validate when appropriate
5) Look past the OW. She's an annoying gnat.
6) Try to follow Sandi's Rules
7) GAL your butt off
8) Make sure that your email/text responses are brief, to the point, and on topic
9) Drink up that tasty STFU juice
10) Sing "Santa's Coming to Town" to the kiddos
Yeah, just had to slide that last one in to round off the list in a perfect 10.
Wonka
You make me laugh which is what I really need these days, thank you for that. Seriously.
So with your magic crystal ball and years of experience, how do you see this situation turning out? I don't know why I ask, just obsessing as usual.
Do you think that once the AP is out of the picture she will calm down and reevaluate her choices?
NAJ
Wonka
You make me laugh which is what I really need these days, thank you for that. Seriously.
You're welcome!
So with your magic crystal ball and years of experience, how do you see this situation turning out? I don't know why I ask, just obsessing as usual.
If I can change into God, then just maybe I'll be able to read the crystal ball perfectly. Who knows how your sitch will turn out. However, I do want to emphasize that your actions DO have influence on W and your situation.
Do you think that once the AP is out of the picture she will calm down and reevaluate her choices?
We cannot answer this because we are not inside your W's mind. This process is different for each OP based on their personalities, backgrounds, cultural influences, etc.
Some WASes do see how things are playing out. Some just simply push forward because it is very hard to climb down from this path and admit that they were/are wrong.
Unfortunately, as long as they get their "fix" or "hit" from the OP drug they're not in a reflective state of mind. It is all ME...ME...ME.
NAJ
So now WAW informs that me the Disney day trip (the one I hd been dreading) is off. She doesn't want to have "anything to do with me on that day.", She emailed that to me during one of her spews. I did not reply.
That at least takes care of that issue - I was uncomfortable being with my WAW for that long anyway. I was afraid of being trapped with her and not being able to escape from one of her spews or he constant texting with the AP. I hope she enjoys Disney!
am i missing something, if she wants it to be off how come its her going and not you?
She is taking our kids s9 and D6 to Disney. She had originally asked me to go as "family time". Now, she is angry at me and uninvited me. I could ask her to please let me come but that is not going to happen.
Here is her email line -
And cancel the trip to Disneyland. I want no part of you there with me and the children.
Jan,
What happened? Did you two have any interactions today?
I'm sorry Jan you had to read such ignorance. Please know you deserve better and better will come for you.
No interaction today but over the weekend she emailed she wanted to take the kids to UTAH for their Spring break. I said I would like half of the Spring Break time. She became vey angry and "punished" me by banning me from Disney with our kids on a day she had planned.
Later on we talked and I agreed she could take them to UTAH for the week.
Here is the email exchange - my WAW is A and I am J
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
Kind of far out but I'd like to take the kids to Utah to visit I think I asked you this before but I can't remember if you responded. Thoughts?
J
How about we split the time?
Sent from my iPhone
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
If I leave on Saturday with them, I'll get there Sunday and would have to turn around on Wednesday to get back. I suppose it's doable but that seems quite rushed.
J
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
We will have to split the time 50/50. As the time gets closer I will review schedule to ensure equal times.
Sent from my iPhone
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
to me
Doesn't it get old being this much of an [censored]?
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
to me
Then I'll be adjusting some times that first weekend in January so we have equal time then as well.
And cancel the trip to Disneyland. I want no part of you there with me and the children.
Steer clear! Great job not responding to spewing
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
Kind of far out but I'd like to take the kids to Utah to visit I think I asked you this before but I can't remember if you responded. Thoughts?
This was positive and she asked for input.
J
How about we split the time?
Sent from my iPhone
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
If I leave on Saturday with them, I'll get there Sunday and would have to turn around on Wednesday to get back. I suppose it's doable but that seems quite rushed.
She had a very valid point right there.
J
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
We will have to split the time 50/50. As the time gets closer I will review schedule to ensure equal times.
Sent from my iPhone
This is where you f@cked up. You just practically ordered her around that it had to be 50/50 with no flexibility by offering some alternative dates/suggestions. You simply shut down the lines of communication with this type of response. Do you now see this, Jan?
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
to me
Doesn't it get old being this much of an a--hole?
This comment isn't too surprising at all considering your earlier response.
A
Dec 20 (2 days ago)
to me
Then I'll be adjusting some times that first weekend in January so we have equal time then as well.
And cancel the trip to Disneyland. I want no part of you there with me and the children.
That no go Disney email come out of sheer frustration.
There's a way to save this and regroup.
I suggest that you say this (you can make any changes as you see fit):
W,
I am sorry that you feel this way. I can only imagine how frustrated you must be with my inflexibility about the Utah trip. After thinking about it some more, I recognize that it was unhelpful to you. It just makes sense logistically for you to take the kids with you for that length of time. Although I will miss the kiddos like crazy which was why I reacted the way I did as it will be the LONGEST time apart from them. I am sure you probably can relate to those feelings as a parent.
Thank you for listening and understanding where I was coming from.
Jan
Wonka
I used your email as a guide and sent it to her.
Maybe she is right Wonka, I am just too angry and damaged for my wife. Maybe I am not worthy of being married to. I swear, I cant do anything right, whether it's text, gmail or actual converation, or anything. I just come across WRONG and only make things worse and worse.
I am a mad bull in a china shop breaking things and relationships.
I feel that I am hopeless. Despondant and angry at the same time is an awful feeling.
Wonka
I used your email as a guide and sent it to her.
Maybe she is right Wonka, I am just too angry and damaged for my wife. Maybe I am not worthy of being married to. I swear, I cant do anything right, whether it's text, gmail or actual converation, or anything. I just come across WRONG and only make things worse and worse.
I am a mad bull in a china shop breaking things and relationships.
I feel that I am hopeless. Despondant and angry at the same time is an awful feeling.
We all get these thoughts Jan, and it's hard to deal with a WAS, but I will say that if you and S were great at one stage, there is ALWAYS the possibility you can be again.. Keep in your mind that WAS have their own little thing that is going on in their head and it wouldn't matter how you put things, they will see it how they want to see it.. If it is going to happen, then it will, but it's just a matter of when..
Keep up the GAL and PMA..
We were great - for 19 years and two beautiful happy little kids came from it. Everyone said we were the greatest couple they knew. We had our bad and stressed moments,over the years, but I swear to God it was real. I know my WAW knows it. But, it's in the hands of God, there is nothing else I can do but accept this horror show reality.
To find your thread, you need to go to the Newcomers forum and scroll down the list until you locate your own thread. Then you can hit the 'reply' push button to compose your posts/responses.
I'm going to top replying here. Will do in your other thread.
Even a better way is to go to
MY STUFF (at the top)
POSTS (scroll down)
TOPICS Created (upper right hand part of page)
Wonka
I sent your email suggestion (I modified a little bit) but overall your sugestion was very good. Here is the response I recevied from my WAW regarding Spring Break. Should I revist the Disney Trip or just let that dog lay.
WAW Wife Email to me -
I'm not frustrated with you. I understand where you're coming from. From my perspective, I think that I'm actually helping out by taking care of a full week with the kids so you don't have to take off work. But I know how hard it will be to be away from them. If it's easier, I can plan to leave on a Sunday and then come back on Friday. That gives you the buffer of the weekend on each side to make things a bit easier.
Would that help?
Jan,
The goal is to have positive exchanges with W. I'd keep my mouth shut about the Disney trip...focus on the present moment. She may or may not change her mind about the trip.
I am going to make a suggested response here then the next time you can draft your responses here for feedback. I think you've learned about how to keep those responses short and more collaborative which will elicit a more positive reaction from W.
Suggested response:
W,
Thank you for getting back to me on this. I now can see clearly that you were trying to help out and I do appreciate your effort to make this schedule work for everyone. It'd be great if you can come back on Friday so I can spend some time with the kids as well. Your suggestion was a good one and I think this schedule is something that we both are comfortable with. Are we in agreement with this plan?
Thanks,
Jan
I am just too angry and damaged for my wife. Maybe I am not worthy of being married to. I swear, I cant do anything right, whether it's text, gmail or actual converation, or anything. I just come across WRONG and only make things worse and worse.
I am a mad bull in a china shop breaking things and relationships.
I feel that I am hopeless. Despondant and angry at the same time is an awful feeling.
First word, starts with a "B", ends with a U-L-L
Second word....rhymes with "zit"
NAJ....
You have to stop pushing for a "fix" here...
You are trying to fix her, instead of just being yourself and doing things, because they are right for YOU...
You are still looking towards her, for YOUR answers in life. She doesn't need or want that right now. It could change down the road, yet for now, it isn't something that can help her. Therefore, she has zero interest in it.
Slow down man...
It didn't break overnight, and it won't work out over night...
Back away a bit, work on detaching from her a bit, and find out what works for you, not the situation...
Jan,
The goal is to have positive exchanges with W. I'd keep my mouth shut about the Disney trip...focus on the present moment. She may or may not change her mind about the trip.
I am going to make a suggested response here then the next time you can draft your responses here for feedback. I think you've learned about how to keep those responses short and more collaborative which will elicit a more positive reaction from W.
Suggested response:
W,
Thank you for getting back to me on this. I now can see clearly that you were trying to help out and I do appreciate your effort to make this schedule work for everyone. It'd be great if you can come back on Friday so I can spend some time with the kids as well. Your suggestion was a good one and I think this schedule is something that we both are comfortable with. Are we in agreement with this plan?
Thanks,
Jan
Just like that ^^^^
(BTW, Happy Holidays Wonka )
: )
Hey Mach,
Merry Christmas to you too! Dancing to the 'Jingle Bells' in your pink tutu??
Hey Mach,
Merry Christmas to you too! Dancing to the 'Jingle Bells' in your pink tutu??
Not yet...work kinda frowns on that before 5...
: )
great email suggestion. I have taken you up on it with a few minor modifications.
Wonka, thank you.
And the email exchange - A WAW and J (me)
J
Thank you for getting back to me on this.
I now can see clearly that you were trying to help out and I do appreciate your effort to make this schedule work for everyone. It'd be great if you can leave on a Sunday, come back on Friday so I can spend some time with the kids as well.
Your suggestion was a good one and I think this schedule is something that we both are comfortable with.
Are we in agreement with this plan?
A
Yes. We are in agreement.
Well done, sweetie.
And the email exchange - A WAW and J (me)
J
Thank you for getting back to me on this.
I now can see clearly that you were trying to help out and I do appreciate your effort to make this schedule work for everyone. It'd be great if you can leave on a Sunday, come back on Friday so I can spend some time with the kids as well.
Your suggestion was a good one and I think this schedule is something that we both are comfortable with.
Are we in agreement with this plan?
A
Yes. We are in agreement.
See, you ARE all of that , and a Cherry Coke Slurpee !!!!
Jan,
Mach is a very good seasoned, grizzly vet to keep in your corner. Never mind his zany humor!
I found this excellent post from Bets over in Maybell's thread that is apropos for you. I love the Daily OM.
In response to Bug's teflon comments and observations, this is a passage I got in my inbox yesterday from the Daily OM:
There will always be factors and people that we cannot control; how we respond can determine the quality of our lives.
There are many stories of spiritual masters embracing the presence of an annoying student in their community. There is even one story that documents a teacher paying an irritating person to live among his students. From an everyday perspective, this is difficult to comprehend. We generally work hard to avoid people and things that we find annoying so they don’t bother us.
From a deeper spiritual perspective, however, irritation can be an important teacher and indicator that we are making progress on our path. Being able to remain centered and awake even when we feel uncomfortable is much more impressive than doing so in an environment where everything is to our liking. No matter how good we are at controlling our circumstances, there will always be factors and people that we cannot control. How we respond to these experiences to a great degree determines the quality of our lives. The goal of spiritual development is not to learn to control our environment—which is more of an ego-driven desire. And while having some measure of control over our external reality is important, it is when we are confronted with a person or situation that irritates us and we can choose not to react that we know have made progress spiritually. It is when we have mastered our internal reality that we will have become the masters of our lives.
The more we try to eliminate annoyances, instead of learning to handle them gracefully, the further we get from developing the qualities that come with spiritual growth, such as patience, tolerance, and acceptance. It is often in the presence of people and experiences we find annoying that we have an opportunity to develop these qualities. Fortunately for most of us, our lives offer an abundance of opportunities to practice and cultivate these traits.
Hey Mach,
Merry Christmas to you too! Dancing to the 'Jingle Bells' in your pink tutu??
HIJACK
The pink tutu is Erics not Machs!
Hey Mach,
Merry Christmas to you too! Dancing to the 'Jingle Bells' in your pink tutu??
HIJACK
The pink tutu is Erics not Machs!
Dang! Maybe purple tutu is Mach's.
I am beginning to realize that this could be a spiritual growth opportunity. I did not fully grasp this concept previously. I can accept that reality and that somehow it makes the fear go down a level or two. I welcome that feeling. How I choose to react is the issue I think I am learning. Once I can control my reactions, the better off I will be spiritually?
So now it's detachment and allowing things/situations/WAW to just be. Wow, a two-fer. My WAW did tell me she wanted us to get to a place where we could just let each other "be" and accept each other as we are. She has also asked me to be "uncomfortable" with this process. Part of me thinks this is crap that the AP has put into her head, which makes me mad, as she NEVER talked like this before. Now, however, maybe I can accept that this is the path we are on.
It is true that when I am detached I get better much results from her. Thanks to you Wonka and the generous application of improved email communication techniques.
I will ponder it and apply to my situation.
The old me thinks - Naj, you are just giving in and letting A "control" you which Pi$$es me off. The newer me is thinking "Maybe I could learn a lot from this experience, maybe I could learn to be a better person, one that is more open to life and experiences and to let go of the fear based responses that I have previously used.
Life is a curious thing.
Jan,
I'm glad that today's post from the Daily OM is helping you look and think about your reactions in a different way. That's the utter beauty of DB forums....we're constantly growing and learning from others.
How I choose to react is the issue I think I am learning. Once I can control my reactions, the better off I will be spiritually?
What would that look like to you?
Better off in comparison to what?
So now it's detachment and allowing things/situations/WAW to just be. Wow, a two-fer. My WAW did tell me she wanted us to get to a place where we could just let each other "be" and accept each other as we are. She has also asked me to be "uncomfortable" with this process. Part of me thinks this is crap that the AP has put into her head, which makes me mad, as she NEVER talked like this before. Now, however, maybe I can accept that this is the path we are on.
Why is it okay for you to be "uncomfortable" with this process when taking in the fact that your W is in a full-blown A with the OW? Hell yeah! Im uncomfortable for a good reason. By stepping out of the M with another person is incredibly disrespectful to you, the M and the kids. If and when W brings that crappy line again or allude to it, just tell her that you're not willing to live in an open M and having OW is incredibly disrespectful to you. That is YOUR boundary. This doesn't mean that you have to like the path you're on right now, but it is far more important that you are authentic with your own values.
The old me thinks - Naj, you are just giving in and letting A "control" you which Pi$$es me off. The newer me is thinking "Maybe I could learn a lot from this experience, maybe I could learn to be a better person, one that is more open to life and experiences and to let go of the fear based responses that I have previously used.
Life is a curious thing.
Letting go of the fear will set you free mentally. With fear, you remain stuck in place looking at your W and worrying constantly about doing the "right" or "wrong" things. That type of prison is preventing you from breaking free and living your own life. How to break free? GAL your butt off which will aid the detachment process greatly.
Yes, life is interesting indeed.
I have made and enforce boundries.
She does not live with me in our house anymore.
I dont communicate with her anymore (except kid issues),
I don't support her financially. She had to get her own checking and cc's
All is these are boundries I have established and maintain to protect me and my kids.
Any others you think I should employ?
Letting go of fear is something I struggle with. I have always struggled with that issue. I have an anxiety disorder which makes it harder but I deal with it and have gotten medical help with that issue, but it's always there, lurking, waiting for the right time to kick me in the shins. Let the kicking begin.
My WAW said most of my decisions were fear based. That one hurt because there is some truth to it. My biggest fear was that she would up and join the circus one day and give all of our money to them (she did in a sense). So do fears of the future play themselves out because you fear them or are you just insightful about the future. I am guessing that fearing them in the first place gives them actual life.
I hope to learn how to react better to life's shocks. My typical reactions have been to shut down, have a panic attack and try to regroup. My future self hopefully can have a better foundation built to not self destruct.
For example, maybe when my WAW told me she wanted an open relationship and I could have talked to her calmly about it I wouldn't be a LBS. Maybe if I had not completely freaked about it, I would not be in this nightmare. That I will never know and I regret not acting in a better manner. Maybe when she begged me that first night that she would not pursue it any further, I should have listened compassionately and loving. There were so many times I could have responded better, more objectively more self assured and that situation WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Then again, maybe it was already on the self destruct train and there was nothing I could have done to stop it.
Enough fear musing for the night. Good night friends.
My WAW sent me a text yesterday asking me to come over and bake Christmas cookies with the family. I missed the text and didn't see it until after 6PM. I called and apologized for missing the text. However, maybe it was good I didn't see them.
I did make a date with my kids for Christmas Eve lunch today and my WAW agreed. After we hung up, I thought, Jeez, maybe I should have invited her to come too, just for lunch. So I called back and said I am sorry but realized she may like to join us for lunch and she agreed.
During lunch, I will be light and airy and NOT bring up any issues outside of Christmas for the kids and birthday party plans for our D6. I hope I can maintain my composure and dignity. I will try my best. I hope my wife can see the changes I have made (made new friends, dated, have not collapsed without her, gotten a professional hair cut and colored, and just been living my life successfully without her).
I will not mention any of these changes, how will I know if she notices? Do I even care?
Hey
just some thoughts of mine.
So do fears of the future play themselves out because you fear them
More or less, yes they do. Its a common occurency and there is a lot of stuff out there about self fulfilling prophecies. the other thing that plays in here is what is called confirmation bias (you only accept evidence that supports your existing view point).
You've probably seen on the boards people talk about 'what you focus on grows, what you ignore withers and dies' and i think that happens in millions of tiny imperceptible ways. In my case I focused on feelings of rejection and so thats what I saw - it grew and it grew until my wife fully rejected me for someone else.
when we pursue we are focusing on them and the fact they are leaving us, and it pushes them away (grows)
There were so many times I could have responded better, more objectively more self assured and that situation WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
yep and that is true for so many of us (I definitely could have responded better than kicking a hole in my wall and breaking a foot on christmas eve). At the same time your WAW could have also handle a bunch of stuff better.
we need to look at these bits and identify where we werent as good as we could have been. Not to apportion blame but so we can work out what we need to do to change our behaviour IN THE FUTURE. we cant change the past or anyone other than ourselves.
Then again, maybe it was already on the self destruct train and there was nothing I could have done to stop it.
maybe. Assume that this is true. how does that change your approach now?
I will not mention any of these changes, how will I know if she notices? Do I even care?
No you shouldnt care if she notices (theory so much easier than reality). If you are focused on whether she notices then you are encouraging her noticing as the thing to grow. now that may sound good on the face of it but in reality what is more likely to come accross is false attempt to impress and potentially expectations that they will respond in someway.
What you are better to focus on is whether the changes are real and lasting and stick. If they do people will notice, how they react is up to them
Today I met my WAW and our kids for lunch at McDonalds. I was working and it was close. My kids and I had a great time, they hugged me and I hugged them the whole time. We talked and giggled. My wife was cool and frankly seemed depressed.
I did not talk about anything except our kids, kids plans and work/house related topics. There were no R talks. She did notice that I had my hair cut and said it looked nice.
1). The kids asked if I was coming to Christmas eve services at 5PM. I said, I don't know - they would have to ask Momma (wife) as she set up the event. They did and she said "sure". Do I go fo the kids or just let it drop?
2). She sends me a text that she scored 4 tix to the RoseBowl parade and they are great seats. Would I like to go (as in the entire family go). I said - wow - how did you get such great seats, that's amazing, etc... and that I might go.
Should I go to this event or just cancel?
We have a lot of family events coming up - Xmas, D6 birthday party at our house and D6 birthday party at a party place.
I have made an appointment with my Divorce attorney for Jan 6th.
Dilemma - keep going to family events for the sake of the children or just let it go......
If I keep going to family events and playin happy family it feels like my WAW wins - she gets the AP and does what she wants AND uses our happy family time to make her feel like nothing has changed.
Pi$$es me off or is there another way to think about this??
Jan,
You got an haircut and coloring?! Way to go!!
I think you did a really good job during today's lunch. Light and breezy is the way to go.
If I were you, I'd go to the Xmas Eve event for you'll meet other people and put on your biggest smile like you're really happy to see people. Mingle, baby!
Yeessss to the Rose Bowl event. It is all bout making happy memories for the kids and leave positive impressions indirectly in W's mind about the fabulous Jan. She will most definitely see the contrasts between a happy family unit and the solitary road she's embarked on with the OW. For women, it s all about emotion and bonding with the kids by having different experience.
Best advice? Check your pride at your front door.
You got this!
Merry Christmas.
P.S. What is the purpose behind the visit with this attorney?
The purpose is I am a realist as well as a doormat. I am getting my divorce paperwork started and in process. When I am ready, I will throw the gaunlett down and file. I will file probably Feb 1 but my paperwork will be all ready.
Jan,
Slow down! Breathe.
The purpose is I am a realist as well as a doormat. I am getting my divorce paperwork started and in process. When I am ready, I will throw the gaunlett down and file. I will file probably Feb 1 but my paperwork will be all ready.
Is a D what you really want?
If not, then I'd suggest that you cancel this appointment.
Remember that DBing is a marathon, not a sprint. It took a while for this M to slide into the crapper, so it will take some time to turn around the U.S.S. Jan battleship. You must give this process time to have an effect....it takes about 1 month for every year of M to right the ship. This is an approximate estimate.
Do I need to talk you off the ledge?
I am ready to pull the plug on this Wonka. Once the paperwork is ready, I will let them know when to file. It will most likely be in Feb. That will be 5 months after the DB imploded.
What time estimate do you feel is appropriate? We have been together 19 years, and the bobm dropped in September 2014. How many months do you think is enough to "right the ship of the USS Jan"
Jan,
I get that you feel that you're in a very dark place with no way out of this mess and feeling it pretty keenly with the Christmas holiday. This is precisely why we all advise LBSes not to take any action that they will regret deeply.
I am ready to pull the plug on this Wonka. Once the paperwork is ready, I will let them know when to file. It will most likely be in Feb. That will be 5 months after the DB imploded.
Will this action bring you closer to the goal?
If not, then do NOT do it.
You are feeling a whole wide gamut of emotions such as despair, raw pain, rejection, feeling discarded, bruised pride, unlovable, and a whole ball of anxiety. This anxiety is causing you a great deal of discomfort and pain. You want this to end so you believe that it'll go away with filing.
Not the case. One rash action based on high emotion is not the best idea. Get your head screwed back on and refocus your energy back to YOU.
Even if I have to, I'll crawl through the screen and duct tape you 100 times to your chair until the anxiety passes. It ALWAYS does. I've crawled up the walls in agony wishing I could talk, text, or email Ms. Wonka. How did I solve those pesky antsy pantsy emotions?
Going out for a walk and phoning a friend. Those distraction techniques worked for me in addition to implementing the 72-hour rule to force myself to get through to the other side of my twitchy nerves ready to pounce into foolish actions.
You CAN do this too!
I've tried to DB Ms. Wonka for about 4 years. That is how long I hung in there.
Many posters here with reconciled marriages have withstood some really rough stuff for 2 to 4 years. Bond stood for 3 years and I believe Starsky stood for 2 years.
Wonka
5 months of her bullshi%% cheating is enough for me. I went to church with her tonight and out kids cause it's Xmas eve and the kids wanted me to go. She sat there the whole time and cried and sobbed. Last time she did that I read an email (snooped) to the AP and said she just had so much emotion going on (with the AP) she felt it was a safe place to let it out. Chr$st. Exactly what she was doing today.
I am OVER IT. I want to file to end the financial issues we are having with our mortgage. She left and will not pay her half of the mortgage and her name is on the deed. Each month I bleed money to stay here as she has abandoned her finances as well as me and our children for her scum b@g AP.
My plan is to have the docs ready, completed and serve her in Feb. Boom goes the dynamite. Good riddance.
Wonka
Very Very dark place now. You are right. I am crawling through my skin.
My WAW came over at 9AM with some presents for kids. She went to the bathroom and like an idiot fool I checked her texts. it was full of I love you, I miss you, Merry Christmas, How did you sleep...." and photos from her AP's kids etc... It made me sick to my stomach. I am so done with this.
My WAW came out of the bathroom and left in a about five minutes. So now I have my two beautiful kids with me, and I made bacon and biscuits. I am trying very hard to not crawl back in bed and sob.
How did this happen - where did my life go? How is my wife an alien who wants hates me so much? Really tough for me to digest.
We went to church last night - she asked me to keep the kids longer than I agreed and then asked if I could drop them off at church which I did. I stayed through the service and she sobbed the whole time. Not because of me but because of her sense of longing of her AP. I know this again because I read an earlier text.
I have called my shrink to get some meds to get me through this black whole.
Tell me why again I am not ready to move on with my divorce from this insanity?
She then sends me a text message - next time you snoop on my texts try to make it less obvious.
I ignored that.
Yes that happens. Really don't snoop again. Do it to protect yourself so you can get better.
Going to get out of the house tday - Target for a few suplies - a bike ride for the tree of us and maybe a movie. How does that sound for GAL?
Working it even though i don't feel like it.
NAJ
Sounds GREAT! I used to love bike rides with the kids - so many adventures.
time to work on you.
that goes for me too!
NAJ
Just catching up on the tail end of your update/sitch.
I have been there ... its a tough pill to swallow, one I have spit up repeatably. But Wonka has some words of wisdom ... in fact I think if I would have given every single major decision in my life that 72 hour rule ... I would be in a much different/better place. With the DBing approach you have to be a coola$$ cucumber. I too have not always been this way and I will tell you ... every time I let out that emotional hurt little boy do my bidding .. i regretted it ... now I hired a Clint Eastwood stand in to take care of my heavy lifting, much cooler and it is who I want to be.
The snooping will only make you spin, I do that from time to time too .. puts ya in a "how the F dare she" mode ... again .. when you focus on an ant it gets bigger ... move that focus to what you can control .. you and your kids .. that bike ride, that's a nice memory, Hey remember that time the world was crashing around us and we just said F it and went for a bike ride ... do that .. do more of that stuff .. the way my S looks at me, he knows who is the rock, who is the safe person, who has his back ... be that guy ... let her go about doing her stuff .. its not going to last .. its a band aide .. the more you fight it the more she will cling to it.
Godang that is a bitter bitter pill.
What is the 72 hour rule? I am assuming not doing anything for 72 hours or 3 days?
I will never SNOOP AGAIN, it is just too painful and counterproductive. I don't care if I have to tie my fingers up, NO SNOOPING.
Godang that is a bitter bitter pill.
What is the 72 hour rule? I am assuming not doing anything for 72 hours or 3 days?
I will never SNOOP AGAIN, it is just too painful and counterproductive. I don't care if I have to tie my fingers up, NO SNOOPING.
Anything big ... like "Hey WAS I want the D and I am filing" ... obviously you do not want that hence your being here .. we all get emotional and during this time of year .. yeah .. its frustrating .. how dare they put us in this spot ... but that all goes back to .. Detach, GAL, PMA ... alot of things change in 3 days ... my W can wish me dead to giving me a hug in that time .... seriously .. it happens often .. I can not even make this up.
and yeah .. do not snoop .. Jack gave me some wisdom here ... Snooping is like putting your hand in a blender ... so don't do that ... it hurts.
So I talked to my WAW today and it was the best conversation that we have had since this whole awful situation has happened.
She was at work and I called with some logistical questions about our D6 upcoming birthday party. This led into general questions about how are you doing, are you eating, how is your apartment and we actually shared a laugh or two about things. She asked about how I was, the house, the kids etc...
She admitted she was not happy about any of "this". She said she is very sad and hates that our family is not together. She does not like hurting me or the kids and for the first time admitted feeling bad and lonely. She said she wants to call me about 10 times a day.
I was very careful with my responses, validated everything she said even though I did not agree with several large chunks. I said Yes, I can see how you feel that way or that must have been awful, just validated her feelings whatever they were. That was a big step for me.
I asked how how she envisioned our family being intact again and she said she just didn't know. She said she feels a lot of pressure from me to "fix" things and I again validated and said that must feel pretty bad. She said she wants our family together but without the pressure from me. Again, I said yes, I want our family together again too.
I told her I missed her too and wanted to call her up a lot but I don't. She said she wants a partner she can trust to "figure things out together" and I said "We can do this".
So - I ignored the elephant in the room, talked only of positives and that was that.
5 minutes later the phone rings, it's my wife and she wants to have a family lunch and then see a movie tomorrow.
I will have no expectations other than to have a good lunch and movie with my family.
What do y'all think about that? Suggestions for tomorrow? I will KISS and not talk about anything deep especially the AP.
Oh Jan fantastic job! Fantastic for you and your PMA. Really wonderful. From what I understand... if you can keep your cool up... not mention AP... not show your pain... not show expectations... no pressure... just be fun Jan talking about light subjects (decide what you want to talk about before you get there)... don't act like you're there to R... have something to do right after so you look busy... you can start to reconnect. Think of your W as a curious cat and stand as still and cool as possible as you know.
My W asked me and S11 to have lunch on his birthday and, when I didn't respond immediately, made another offer. She knows I want to R from our recent screaming R talk and she's not said she misses us or wants to speak with me (as she says I'm avoiding her) so clearly I'm not where you are yet.
I'm so happy for you that you had a successful positive interaction and now a chance for more. I'm with you and cheering for you. You inspire me. Maybe I'll do lunch with my W and S11. Maybe I can do it.
How do you feel about it Jan? How are you dealing with anger and hurt in light of this?
You've made my night Jan. Good luck.
Thanks HP
I will have a list of about 5 topics we can discuss. Nothing of the annoying AP and that situation. Wonka said to treat it an annoying gnat. I will do just that.
I am feeling good to even hear that she misses us and doesn't want to cause us (me and family pain). That is the FIRST time I have heard her say that.
I am still mad as he** but for now I will swallow my bile and play nice. My goal here is to get her feeling good about our family and being together in a positive way. I will STFU about negative topics and no guilt. I will sit on my hands.
I will let you know how it goes. No expectations.
Now maybe I think I am reading more into it than there is. Hmmm...... Guess I will just have to use my crafted patience skills that I have learned from DB Forum.
Hey Jan... don't read anything into what she does or offers. Just go do what you know to do with this opportunity. You place no expectations on her. Expect yourself to do what you know to do. Success is only doing what you know you're supposed to do. How she responds is less important. Even better... not important. Please remember that. I will try to remember that too. Promise.
Feeling antsy about meeting my wife for lunch and then movies with kids. AGGGHHH... It feels like ants are crawling over me and they are now starting to bite.
Wife said she misses our family so we will try to reconnect for them. I have ZERO expectations but I must admit I look pretty good. My goals are:
cool
detached
friendly
no R talks
to pressure
live in the moment
I think I can,,,I think I can.....I think I can..... Why is this is blasted hard for me? Does anyone else feel like this when they meet up with their WAW?
Breathe.......Breathe......Breathe....
You can, you can, you can!! :-)
Hope things are going well for you today Jan. Take care.
Scenario breakdown:
1. Met wife at Pizza Place with our two kids (s9) (d6). We had a good lunch and I acted liked everything was normal.
NO talk about anything significant.
2. We all got into her car and drove to the the movies. We were early so we all went to Ross and bought some clothes.
3. We went to movies, and had a good time with the family.
My thoughts
1. No arguments which was good
2. AP did not come up in conversation
3. I acted as if I were normal, not overly happy nor a downer, just a happy medium
4. I did not ask any personal questions, she did not either.
I did not feel really good about the day, I had no expectations but nothing positive happened. I just feel blah.
Thoughts anyone?
Hello Jan. I would say you were successful. You acted like you knew you were supposed to. You didn't make things worse. You made a space where your wife can start to feel comfortable spending time with you again. That's all you can do and you did great. Keeping that up every time you interact will make you stronger and more confident which is the most important thing. If your wife then wants to spend more time with you b/c you are a pleasure to be around... that's a bonus.
I know you don't feel it was great b/c your W gave you nothing to hope for. Expect that's how she's going to be for months and then let that go. Just focus on what you're doing. Just keep going.
I am in the same place - still awful but more resigned to it.
Took my kids to the LA Arboretum which a a tree/plant sanctuary. I did it all by myself, and felt pretty good about it. I know it's not a big deal, but to me, it is a big thing. I have done everything with my wife for the past 20 years and the loss of her has left me paralyzed.
I forced myself to get up, get the kids up and go. It was a 20 mile drive there. Again, not a big deal for most folks, but a really big deal for me.
Hooray for me, and now back to my Pity Party.
More than anything, it feels like my wife is a spoiled bratty little kid who is "teaching me a lesson". I hate that.
Great job with the kids NAJ
I hate the feeling that this is all some kind of scorecard that is yet to be balanced out. Or they haven't won by enough yet. I wish we could say Ok, you win. lets start this over, but it seems like it's never enough for them.
Right - like some awful no participatory game that I am forced to play. I am not playing for much longer. I have tired of the game. The next card is my choice.
I have gone dark on FB too, completely not playing that game either. I thought well I will post my trip on FB to "show" my wife that I can live/function without her. Obviously, that is the WRONG thing to think and do and it's not about her anymore. It's about me and my kids. So, she is not privy to what we do anymore.
I also hated seeing FB posts with her and the kids, I swear she is taunting me through FB - look how great and happy we are without Mommy (me). I am through with that game too.
Hey Naj fantastic fun day with you and your kids. I know putting together that kind of day on your own is hard just in general... much more so under these circumstances. But you did it and you will keep doing it. You're the one who's right and you will reward yourself with a better life. Just keep going.
Thanks HP for the vote of confidence. One day at a time one foot in front of the other, one deep breath after the next.
Even if no one ever knows how hard this is for me, I will keep treading up the hill as we all do.
Thank you for caring HP.
More than anything, it feels like my wife is a spoiled bratty little kid who is "teaching me a lesson". I hate that.
If thats the way YOU feel, maybe it is something YOU can change.
It is YOUR feeling not hers, after all.
Good job with the FB decision! I think for many people in our sitches, looking on FB just causes a huge load of pain and upset. Things are tough enough without torturing ourselves with FB too!
Jan,
I think you did a good job with your recent outing with W and the kids. Your rules are pretty simple and continue sticking with your game plan. Loved reading about the Arboretum event with the kiddos. It's a great GAL activity.
Keep going. Eyes forward!
Jan,
Checking in on you. How are things going for you? Hope you have some nice HNY plans with the kids.