Since friends and family have learned about my separation and some of the issues surrounding it, I am learning more and more about my WAW that is making it harder to give true forgiveness and unconditional love. It is getting so bad... I don't even want to answer the phone for fear of learning something else. I am becoming more and more validated as each day goes by for filing against her after she left. yesterday I found out that she was basically embezzling from her last job and got away with it. Something that is so far off my moral compass it isn't even registering. She is obviously going though something, whether it be a MLC or Mental illness such ad NPD I don't know. The very first day I met with my therapist (while my world was still spinning), I told him some back stories of us. and he said it sounded like she didn't like who she has become or is so far into her lies and deceit that leaving was her only option.... I couldn't help still feeling like I did something to cause this... here is a copy of an email that I sent to Mr. Bilotta's office earlier this week.
"I am still not sure if she will change. I have owned my part in our marital breakdown.I have been changing our environment, being calm, seeking personal counseling and being nice. I have learned that my drinking was a symptom of a bad marriage and not the cause (typical withdraw, avoidance and being non confrontational.) I am genuinely happier, with the exception of missing her so much (but maybe that is just the familiarity of being married. I am also not too sure that she is prepared to give up or work on her part which was horrible financial irresponsibility, narcissism and pride. she always fought to win (her toxic take away) and seems to be doing fine on the outside (although MIL tells me otherwise. I just feel she has to figure this out, and it might not be too far down the road. She moved out learning that she only had a temporary job, filed a false PPO against me (which she got in trouble for), did not win the financial support she asked for and also got in trouble for keeping my kids from me (which I am their hockey coach). I have also saved our house. She has since lost her job and it kills me to see her in this situation, but she still hangs around with her divorced girlfriends that talked her into leaving in the first place. It has been 65 days since she has left and we have made up no ground at all in trying to fix this, with the exception of a few family activities and we are not fighting at all. She still pulls away if I offer any type of conversation regarding our situation. the only glimmer of hope is that she seems to be delaying signing the quit claim deed to our house which was an agreement during our temporary support hearing (although I wanted her to sign modification instead, but lawyers saw it different. She has also sold her wedding band (says for financial reasons) an still blames me and bad Judges for everything that has happened since."
I have been creating a good space and decided to go dark, since I have not gotten any response... last night she is blowing up my phone with texts, asking why I am all of a sudden being rude and short and....
Just wanted to get some input out there.
Thanks
Hi,
I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach. It sounds like there are lots of questions and concerns regarding how to handle your wife & her choices. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Best advice I -- personally -- can give you is that the advice here is invaluable. Keep posting. Your thoughts, your feelings, your questions; journal if you want to.
The vets here are great and the community is amazing support.
Welcome aboard. Your W really sounds as if she's a hot mess right now. She is digging her way down deeper, apparently. You will get a lot of support here if you will post often (like every day at first).
Have you read Divorce Remedy? Very important. Some people try to by- pass the book and take the board as their short-cut, but you won't understand completely unless you read the book.
You seem as if you are not trying to rescue your W. That is good! She has to experience life without you, b/c she chose to leave the life she had with you. BTW, did you ask her to leave, or did you leave? Any details will help us.
A WAW may try to be "friends" on her terms, but her definition and her H's definition are completely opposite. She wants you to be her gay boyfriend (popular these days), while you are hoping the friendship will lead to working things out.
It is extremely difficult to go dark when you are co-parenting. There is a difference in pulling back and going completely dark. Completely dark is falling off the face of the earth (as far as she knows).
Learn about healthy emotional detaching in relationships. You will need it. Many people who first come here are mistaken about real detaching.
Take care of yourself. You are going through a crises and it is easy to get down physically and in all other ways. Don't think of it being selfish if you put yourself first at this time. It is necessary.
Make short term goals about how you want to make improvements for yourself. How can you be a better "you"?
Don't waste this time. While she is working through her stuff, you grow.....really grow as a person. Read self-help, inspirational, spiritual, etc. Exercise is recommended b/c of the benefits physically and mentally.
A very important must for you is to "get a life" (GAL) that does not include your W. Find activities, hobbies, social events, volunteering, sports, whatever.....and keep that calendar full. GAL is essential to truly detaching from her drama.
Thanks all...
She left Me while I was at work. She filed a false Ex-parte PPO against me, for stalking because I was looking at her phone numbers and installed family locator so I could find my boys. Funny thing about that is I found out she did the exact same thing to me 3 years ago when she thought I was cheating on her... She has also abandoned all of her "old" friends and now has a crew of new friends that in no way comparable, morally or socially comparable to the friends we have had for so long. She started complaining about me to them and they didn't want to hear anything about it, so she went out and found a set of friends that would.
I am in the process of GAL.... I coach my kids hockey team, getting out and going back to church, working out.
Ile Guy,
Sorry about your situation.
As others have said (and it sounds like you've started) : work on detaching and GAL. I have found this to be a process of lettings go what I cannot control (think A.A.'s Serenity prayer) and one day you'll be doing well and the next not so much, but just reset when you backslide on what you are trying to change and keep at it.
I have also used this time to look at myself and what I did to help get the relationship to this point. Get relationship books to read that would help facilitate that (I am sure there are those on here with many good suggestions).
Hang in there and keep posting. And try to see this an opportunity to get yourself in a better place (even though your sitch is not good) for you.
She is making it easy to let go... and that [censored]. She had me believing that I was this "super turd". Come to find out after knowing her for almost 11 years and being married for over 9 I really didn't know her at all. I was going crazy, My therapist told me I wasn't an alcoholic, my friends say I'm hardly drunk, and gave everything that I had. But her financial infidelity and now this entire possible legal thing that may happen is making wish I was able to turn back time and help her. When she is happy, she is a smart, funny witty, charming and still the most beautiful woman I have ever known. I'm just not sure that I can forgive the embezzlement part even if I knew I were not exposing myself and my boys to legal and financial risk.... That's the worst. And even if I could forgive her, I would have to live the rest of my life with that on my shoulders.... I am hoping to talk to my Priest after Mass this morning.
Thanks for letting me ramble and get this off my chest.
SO W and I have been having decent texts lately. so I asked her to send me a list of things that I can improve upon... I was expecting just some bullet points.. but instead I get this....
Drinking:
Your alcoholism
Was the main reason I left. You've acknowledged it yet don't seem
To understand how much it affected our family. Climbing trees while drunk, driving home from
Fairs (with the kids) while drunk, Lucas drawing you a Father's Day card with a beer can on it. You drunk in the parking lot (and drinking still) while I was having my first major photography show. Kids running around in the woods half undressed when chilly out while you sat by the bonfire. At my show People asked where you were and I was too embarrassed to say you were tailgating in the parking lot on one of the most important nights of my life. Those are just Examples of just how it affected our family.
Things that were important to me didn't seem to be important enough to you:
Molly's defacing of the kids room for example. It was a health hazard. That's why the kids weren't allowed in there. I scrubbed the carpets until I just gave up. Begged for you to help me remove the carpet. That's why the kids didn't sleep in there. You couldn't breathe with the crap and urine everywhere. Another example. My car. I drove daily with your kids. When I had concerns you blew them off. Brakes, other issues. I've had nothing but issues with it and was scared at times because of a new issue. Now that I told you I had my car worked on and had to pay, you say "I would've done it". You didn't. When I sent you pics of cars, it wasn't because I wanted to be money hungry like you claim. My car has always been an issue. Those were all cars that the payment would be the same or lower. Newer. Safer. Less miles. It was an embarrassment that your dad came over to constantly help with projects because you wouldn't do them. We had holes in our walls for 4 years. I gave up on caring that the house was clean because who cared? The carpet was trashed. You didn't follow through on a sidewalk, I would've never had anyone over with holes in the walls, pee soaked carpet, etc.
Unwillingness to do anything/leave the house:
We could have done family things that did t cost money. We had a zoo membership. Bike rides, walks, park, etc. instead you had bonfires and drank in the yard.
Constant criticism of money:
Yes it's a major thing. I know my not working sucked. So would paying daycare. Thought we were on the same page with not working until you blamed me for everything. Kids are expensive. We have 3. It's impossible not to spend money when you have kids. Food alone is awful. I sold the kids clothes to buy things. Yes I got my hair done but it was something I needed for me. I was home with the kids and honestly deserved something for me.
Your constant job loss:
You are never happy at a job. The first few months are great. Then you hate it. You get miserable. I've seen it time and time again. We lose our insurance, etc. it's such a huge stress. You were drinking on the job at Compact Power. In the office and while traveling. When you started the job, you swore that was your dream job. You wanted to travel. The money was great. We had benefits. When you have a family you make stability a priority. Even if it [censored] sometimes.
I refused to be in the same room with you when you were drinking. If you think back we had great talks and texts while you were at work because I could deal with you sober. Then you started drinking after work at "team meetings". You'd come home from dj jobs and people would tell me you were at sharkys after. You told me you stayed late or played longer. Your drinking consumed you. I told you to stop. I asked your dad if you could move in with him while you got help so that I wouldn't uproot the kids and move (because he told me you've needed rehab for years and promised we would get you help so I would stay).
So I sent her a reply... with my list.
Thank you for the list.
I will not get as personal with mine (I do not want to escalate your emotions much more). and this is NOT a bitchlist....OK it is...
I have put myself in you shoes and I understand the validity of your concerns. I am not here to make excuses for my behavior.
It seems that we have both done things to withdraw from each other, which [censored]. some of the things that caused me to do this were...
1. failing to rescue the condo. We budgeted the income of it to be able to take care of HOA's taxes and the payments.
2. Finding out that you MAY have had me followed 2-3 years ago and going through my texts (same reason you were granted a PPO) and phone numbers on the Verizon account.
3. Not keeping the house clean when you were a stay at home mom.
4. Opening up credit cards under my name without asking or consulting about it with me.
5. Multiple Facebook accounts (of which you started blocking me from over a year ago).
6. Constant calls from friends and relatives regarding collection accounts.
7. My line of credit was always in the negative.
8. The abandonment of your core friends, and convincing the new ones that I am some monster (Alison hates my guts).
9. OUR inability to compromise.
10. taking our kids to Florida and keeping them away from me for two weeks during an important holiday.
11. not allowing me to do simple things with you.... Laundry, picking out furniture and painting...working out... (to me these are things that we should do together...time away from the kids to do small things together).
12 We have never set GOALS!!!
13. Finding out that you may have POSSIBLY, committed a very serious offense at your old employer.
14. hiding mail from me... and finding out about overdrawn accounts, of which I knew nothing about.
15. $16500 in judgments at the district court
16. Not taking responsibility for OUR actions.... not just you.... but ME as well.
17. Not a single apology for letting me sleep on the couch for 11 months.
Every time I found out a little more, the more withdrawn I became (my fault for not being responsible to address with you)
It was NEVER my intention to keep things from you.... I do not want to be like your mom and Step father, with separate accounts. It was always... and still is my intention to do things together... Make joint decisions. Be a team. be a loving couple and work on our issues together.
Things I didn't understand about marriage, But am learning everyday is:
1. To love you unconditionally for who you are and If I want you to change, I first have to SHOW you a reason to first, by changing myself. (which I am doing every day)
2. To give true and deep forgiveness.... Which I have (and I pray for you to do at some point as well).
3. Take time for us....
4. Be willing to compromise.
The list looks large, but it is not impossible to address. These are issues that we can tackle together!!!! During my research the last 63 days, I still have not found anything that says we cannot make this work. It will take a commitment from both of us... and a major lowering of pride... I am doing this.... and I honestly pray multiple times a day that you will too. I ask God daily to touch your heart and soften it towards me. I ask that His will be done and pray for the restoration of our family.
I just ask, that you PLEASE put yourself in my shoes and try to see things from a slightly different perspective (my views on our crisis), and have an understanding of my feelings.
We have both been hurt for a long time and it will take time and effort if you decide to do this. BUT IT CAN BE DONE.... I just ask that you consider it. This is a major step if both of us are willing.
For what its worth, I can count on one hand and 1 finger on the other how many beers I have had in the last 52 days.
It feels good to get this off my chest, and I am sorry for taking so long to do this... Going forward, I hope we can have honest and calm discussions about what hurts, when we step on each others toes.
If you are willing to sit down, I would eventually like to talk about these... a little at a time.
In the meantime, I would like to have "date nights" to reconnect and build trust (the intimacy will come LATER).... No pressure or talks about what went wrong. I want to know how you are. and what's happening in your everyday life.. I want to know how Cori is doing.... I want to do fun things that we have neglected to do for the longest time (bowling, movies... ).
Then she got upset... Im not sure that we didn't take a few steps backwards today. I just wanted her to put herself in my shoes and understand how I feel.
I think the problem is that you completely disregarded her issues. You did the opposite of validating. You asked her for a list, then said, "Ok. Got it. I agree I could do better. Now here is everything wrong with you." It almost seems as if your whole reason for having her write up a list for you was so you could pile on her with your own list.
If you are DBing you are supposed to be convincing your WAS that they are a fool to leave you. I think your response did the opposite and instead convinced her that the marriage is doomed.
As a woman who was a SAHM before my kids were in school, your issue with keeping the house clean rubbed me the wrong way. Being a SAHM with young kids is very different from being a housewife. Honestly, becoming a working mom was a lot easier because at least I had a break. I was lucky if I even made it into the shower once a day, much less had a clean house. Imagine you doing your full time job at home and still being excepted to keep the house clean. Now add in 3 little people who spend the entire time you are working, making a mess. Do you really think you would be able to keep the house clean and still do your job. Being a stay at home mom (when kids are home not in school) requires you to be on 24/7, no break. If you are lucky they might take naps at the same time, I never had more than 20 minutes of overlap nap time when they were little, and that was barely enough time to pick up the mess they made before the nap, much less tend to other household needs.
I don't mean to berate you, a lot of people don't get it. I hear working mother's always complaining about how much easier SAHMs have it, I've been both and believe me being a working mother--while not easier--is certainly a lot more sanity saving because at least you get a lunch break and some alone time while you commute. I loved being home with my kids, but it was surprising how little I was able to get done. So I think that first, not giving her issues proper validation and time for you to really let it sink in, followed by giving her a list that comes across as a bit dismissive probably wasn't the best idea if your goal is to save your marriage.
Next time she opens up, even if it hurts, resist your urge to be dismissive or defensive and just listen. You don't have to agree, but you should try to understand and let her know that you are hearing her. You both have some valid issues, but right now you are the one who wants to save this marriage so you need to be the one to demonstrate the willingness to understand her.
Your thread sounds like a big mess. I'm very sorry to hear, and now she is just blaming you. It sounds like she is very bitter. And I think bitterness is one of our worst enemies in a D situation. Because bitterness will change us, for the very worst, but if your heart gets shattered in a million pieces it's also one of the hardest to overcome. I wouldn't reply on anything that includes blaming.
Did both of you see a therapist/counselor together ever? Maybe it would help to talk to someone again and set some rules for communication for both of you.
But I'm not an expert by any means...still learning my own cra p
Hi Mustard... Thanks for the input... I was a SAHD for almost 2 years during the recession with a newborn and a 1.5 year old. But I scheduled everything. there is also a difference between keeping a clean house and allowing a filthy one. .... and I agree with you whole heartedly, its wasn't easy. I admit, I came across a little snippy to her. But since she left, this was the first time I have been able to express how I felt. Like I said, I was afraid I took a step backwards... and I though I did. Now all of a sudden tonight, she is texting me constantly. I hope I was able to show her, how I have changed my perspective and am taking ownership for my past actions. I had the perfect opportunity to stick it in and break it off 2 weeks ago when she told me she sold her wedding bands for $700... after I have over $2800 into it. But all I did, was give her a one arm hug from the side and kissed her on the head and told her, its only a ring. that was a huge step for me. I am not sure if she actually didnt sell the ring and was looking for a reaction, or if she really did. I didn't take the bait. I offered true empathy and forgiveness.
howdy Complex. I have been seeing a therapist since week 3..and doing a lot of studying on a few different sites. My first objective was to create a calm environment. which I have done a good job of. If she gets upset and starts unsing the blame game, I will just text her back and tell her that It just doesn't seem to be the right time yet to talk. My therapist says its ok to push a little once in a while to gauge where we are headed. I really thought that I made a mistake with the Email back to her... I kinda wrote it out of spite, because I was just expecting maybe 5-6 bullet points, brief and succinct. Instead I got the cliff's notes version of everything that has happened over the last 2-3 years. I want to keep my confidence and show her I am not the meek pushover I once was, so I decided to push back a little more... But I used more we's and us'es to soften the blow. and it has seemed to work a little. time will tell.
My therapist told me tonight, that she does notice..... even if she doesn't come out and say it. and she will continue to test, to make sure its not just a façade. Men are action oriented. most times words don't get through to us till its time to take action. Like Michelle said in the WAW video, your husband is going to make someone a really good second husband. He finally gets it, he is getting in shape, he's helping around the house, he's going back to temple or church.... She basically tells the walk away wife to recognize this. I may have broken some ground tonight. If you haven't watched the video... I suggest you google Michelle Wiener-Davis Walk Away Wife on youtube. It gave me great confidence and hope.
I'm glad that you are getting some positive feedback from her. I'm sorry I was so harsh, I know that if I did that it would have back fired completely and he would have completely retreated or spewed a bunch of hate in response.
But maybe that is because I am a woman dealing with a man. As a woman I would love it if my H would actually tell me why he doesn't think our marriage is worth saving. When I ask he can't give me a straight answer, talks in circles, if he is feeling kind he says things like "it's not you it's me" sort of arguments, or "we are just so different" but then can't give me examples of what he means by that. Really? After 14 years of marriage you suddenly woke up one day and decided we were so different we needed to divorce?
If he is in a nasty mood he will just throw my vulnerabilities back at me to get me to shut up, or cry, or walk away (which I have a hard time doing). Like saying "I wish you would die" "you're just mad because she's my friend and you aren't" or--before I got my job--"you destroyed this family by not making enough money". All things that he later takes back when I bring it up later claiming he was just mad.
Most of the time he just says, "I feel like I'm in a prison" (because we are all downstairs watching TV) or " I don't know why I feel this way". It is infuriating, but I am learning to not care anymore. It's his issue not mine--and when push comes to shove the reality is that he just doesn't love me anymore. No reason.
Sounds like we are in a similar sitch... sans the genital difference.. LOL. not to worry about what you posted... I understand.. BTW... I am making you my unofficial, official prayer buddy.
but with out begging pleading or constantly apologizing I am giving her hope that we CAN do it TOGETHER.