Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: gan Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/13/14 07:54 AM
Yoga has been one of my go to GAL activities since BD. I've done it on and off for years but never with a studio, always a gym or class arranged at work. I'm loving my new studio. Last weekend was the Christmas party and they had a DJ in to mix the music. It was so fun! Best of all, I can see my practice getting better. I used to look at photos of people doing crazy poses and think I could never do that. Lately though, I've been looking at them and thinking wow...I'm working my way up to that!

As a start, I hereby pledge that I will conquer crow pose by the time this thread locks.

Last thread here

Thanks once again to everyone who shares their story here and to everyone who stops by to read mine. You've helped me out of some dark places and for that I am eternally grateful.

Namaste.

Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/13/14 08:16 AM
Well the first thought I had is often threads sound like crows on a fence!

Lol wink gets noisy at times. Not sure about light place when crows flyin tho.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 03:01 AM
At the end of my last thread I explained that I intended not to initiate contact till after the new year. Does a siege constitute a valid reason? There's a hostage crisis unfolding downtown right now - near where my H works. I don't want to text him and have him not reply, only to put me and my family in more of a panic.

"Please just tell me you are not near X" Would that be ok? Surely he has enough sense to reply to that.

Stoopid world we live in. For many reasons.
Posted By: KGirl Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 03:51 AM
I just saw this situation in my newsfeed. This seems like a gray area, especially given you don't have kids - not really a right or wrong answer. Maybe a "Saw the hostage situation oh the news - are you OK?" Something about "please just tell me" sounds a bit antagonistic, like he won't respond to any other inquiries.
Posted By: Little Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 04:51 AM
"worried about you considering X, hope you're all right"

Then let it go.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 10:41 AM
I went with "Hi H. The hostage situation downtown is rather alarming. Trust you are ok?"

….and got back:

"I'm ok. Thanks for checking. I leave on XX date. Would you like to get together for a drink before then?"

(First of all, phew).

Secondly, the game plan is out the window. I've generally done ok with the last few meet ups in terms of PMA etc but that approach hasn't changed the course of things much.

Thoughts on how to proceed?
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 11:55 AM
A few days ago you said if he asks you'd suggest something fun to do. Is that still your plan?
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 12:20 PM
Hi Jim, fair point. Yes, I did say that. I wasn't expecting that I would reach out (over highly unexpected circumstances mind) only to have him initiate back. Feels like I didn't get to play my hand, ya know?

I'm left questioning his motivations and am back questioning my approach. Is he incapable of initiating himself in which case I should initiate more? Or is he capable of initiating but not enough time elapses between contact in which case I need to stay dark. I just feel like I have no idea what to do at this point.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 12:37 PM
Also I feeling a bit like "what's the point"? He's heading off to his sister's wedding without me. Going to the wedding was actually one of the goals I set early on (missed that one). I meanwhile have been researching good places to go as a solo female traveler to make up for the fact that I am not going to the wedding...partly just so I can show him what a great time I'm having. This all bites.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 03:00 PM
That it does.

Its do what works. I'm someone who mirrors, so I withdraw when they withdraw.

That's not to say you should pursue but not everyone is the same.

You could stick with your plan and suggest something fun. Just have no expectations and NOTHING relationship based to be said.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 07:27 PM
Thanks, Jim. This is the first time since BD where a big part of me doesn't want to see him. Some of that relates to the above (what's the point), but also it's because our meet ups tend not to be fun because he's negative and down about things. The way I'm feeling I'm not sure that I can compensate. I worry that these exchanges reinforce his belief about our R and do more harm than good.

I think I'll respond with "Glad to hear it. I'll get back to you about drinks" just to buy me some time to work through my feelings on this. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

(Good the siege is over)
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 09:48 PM
Maybe you can decline, it makes you Not available if you had some thing else on. Other plans, it's Christmas.

My thought is if they could initiate for a new person why not for you?
By always taking that role you let him off the hook.
Posted By: vossy Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 09:55 PM
Ganb8te, I was trying to get on here all afternoon yesterday to see if you (and your H) were okay, given yesterday's events. I finally managed to post something late last night but it's not here for some reason.

Anyway, glad you're both safe. I think go get a drink and make it as positive an experience as possible. Give him something to miss while he's gone, don't discuss the R at all, not even if he brings it up, and mention a few awesome things you'll be doing while he's gone.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 10:09 PM
Its just a thought, but if the previous times youve met for a drink he has been down then i would say do something else.

Get Ice cream and walk around the harbour instead maybe?

something side by side and slightly active without anything between you is generally quite good for making people more comfortable. Theres some information around on body language which gives some guidance on settings that make people feel more open.

like i said its just a thought.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 11:32 PM
Ggrass - not accepting is always an option. I know OW is a possibility but I have no real evidence of that. The evidence I have is that he's negative and depressed. Possibly for a lot of our relationship (in hindsight). Hard to imagine others would be attracted to that. I guess I was once though so...

Vossy - yes we are both fine thankfully. I hope you weren't affected? Strange day in Sydney today. Brings back memories of siting in front of the TV waiting for more info on 9/11 (in Boston, with H) and again for Boston marathon bombings (in Sydney, with H).

Jim - good idea re combining with an activity. Sorry to say that going for a drink/dinner is our status quo so even a walk for ice cream could seem like a stretch or ploy. But I guess that's the point. Have to get us to a point where different seems possible.

Just not feeling strong today, for a variety of reasons.
Posted By: vossy Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/15/14 11:41 PM
Luckily I live in a very "masculine" beachside suburb, if you know what I mean, and I work from home, so I was well away. But I do know how you feel today. I am emotionally beaten down, due to a variety of things (I won't hijack your thread about them!) I've left it quite late and I'm going away for Xmas next week, but if you feel like meeting up for a drink this week, perhaps we could meet halfway between you and me.. do you work in the city? Maybe CQ would work? Understand if you can't though, this time of year is already so difficult, coupled with yesterday's events and DB and everything else, so we can also meet in the new year too.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/16/14 12:18 PM
Ha ha Vossy. I like masculine beaches! I'm back waiting for H to reply to my text about times to meet. Probably best if we put off meeting til the new year as I am also away for Xmas next week.

(Still on my eternal quest to figure out what works - just documenting things here for future reference)

Is it possible that H is mirroring me?
1. I text him asking if he is ok vis a vis siege
2. He doesn't read if for a while but replies 1.5hrs later & invites me for a drink
3. I read the text but don't reply til 18hrs later suggesting possible times to meet up (I was genuinely mulling things over)
4. He reads it within 10 minutes but hasn't replied 8 hrs later
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/16/14 12:37 PM
Could be, who knows that would be mind reading.

You really need him to be motivated to do the work. He needs to think there's a dead line that you might fine another option.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/16/14 01:58 PM
Its definitely mind reading

I think GGrass is right. But one way to test the middle ground would be to be limited in your availability and make him fit into your schedule.

You could say

'My plans have changed a bit, but if you still want to meet before you go then im going xxxx at xxxxxx on xxxxx, but am free afterwards if you want to get an ice cream'

I'm not great at this stuff but you get the idea. The concern is if it seems pursuing. If he's mirroring then he will respond with either a yes or a no but....

If he doesn't respond or its a flat no then he's not mirroring

Just a thought so hopefully others will weigh in, definitely listen to the vets on this stuff
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/17/14 09:32 AM
Mind reading? Or just watching and monitoring? He replied ~18 hrs later (i.e. next morning) suggesting the time. We had a bit of back and forth today. Based on that exchange, it does seem like he is more responsive if I respond sooner rather than later. Just something to keep in mind…it may or may not mean anything. I get that.

So Monday night it is. No specific plan yet but I have a few days to come up with ideas. Although it would be nice to propose something fun and different, he suggested a drink so I don't want to come in over that and seem antagonistic. That can be a bit of a trigger for him I think.

Whatever. If it all boils down to picking the perfect thing to say or do then this is not a R that I want. Card's thread is so inspiring at the moment - he's speaking honestly about their issues and his contribution to it in a remorseful and compassionate way. I wish I could do that!

I am going to go pen that letter (not sure if I will give it to H). But first some dinner: melon and prosciutto, accompanied by a glass of guava juice and champagne. Because it's Wednesday.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/17/14 10:11 AM
Watch and monitor, what works well do more of.

Just remember its about what gets them back long term not makes them nice short term.

My W is much nicer to me when she spent the evening before with OM - definitely not the affect i want more of.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/17/14 10:37 AM
Thanks, Jim. It's so hard to tell though, isn't it? I guess that's why I've started to track our exchanges a little more carefully as we see each other so infrequently it is hard to tell. I expect it makes for boring reading so apologies for that!

I've just been reading GGGs thread and found your interpretation of her H very interesting. I'm wondering if there is a bit of my H in the things you wrote there...
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/17/14 12:45 PM
Tracking is a good idea and sharing it means some others might see a pattern.

I'm glad you found it interesting. Whether its correct or helpful is a very different matter
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/17/14 07:50 PM
Giirrrrlllllllll, hey! It's been a while since I've checked in and WHOA! Something exciting is happening! You communicated with your H! He asked you to have a drink! And you are meeting up on Monday!

This is pretty much what you wanted, no? But you are not pleased. WHAT?

Go back and read the end of your last thread where you wondered how to get back in communication with him and how you could get him to meet up. Hello! That is what is happening now. Terrific!

Embrace it and make it as awesome as you possibly can.

1. Look hot
2. Show PMA
3. Show off your 180s
4. Try to figure out where he is at without asking

Be friendly, happy and cool Ganb8te! You can do it!
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/18/14 11:37 AM
Thanks, Lisa, for the kick in the pants. I'm feeling a bit better about things tonight. You're right, it is good that we're going out.

How to explain my feelings the last couple of days….I suppose there were a few possible outcomes after I sent my text the other day:

1. H replies, invites me out because he wants to see me
2. H replies, invites me out because he feels obligated
3. H replies, but doesn't invite me out
4. H does not reply

So, it's good that I didn't open Door 3 or 4. Now the question is whether I opened Door 1 or Door 2. Door 2 is bothersome to me since I see him do it with his Mum. He doesn't want to see her but does it out of obligation. I don't put myself in the same category. Far as I'm concerned, if he knows he doesn't want to be in an R with me then he should feel no obligation to me. No sense prolonging this mess.

I'll have to wait and see if it was Door 1 or Door 2…but I'd feel more confident that it was Door 1 if he texted me first and invited me out (or asked if I was ok given the whole siege thing for Pete's sake).
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/20/14 11:07 PM
So, I managed to pen a letter and would appreciate some feedback. To explain the context, H invited me out for a drink on Monday night (after I broke NC by sending him a text about something else). My plan is to have a letter in my pocket to give to him if the circumstances feel right i.e. if he expresses the same thing he did previously (IF we were to get back together it would have to be a completely different relationship, right now he doesn't see how that could happen). If he says he's seeing someone, that he's done for good etc then I would not give it to him.

Why a letter? Because when we were together I sometimes wrote letters to him about how I was feeling and he responded positively. Because it was usually me who took the initiative to plan things, do things, move us forward and waiting for him to initiate seems very risky. Because I wonder if he is depressed and can't find a way forward in himself. Because he's about to attend his sister's wedding and meet our nephew for the first time and I'm sure it will provoke some deep thinking. Because my IC keeps suggesting I do it based on everything I've told her!

I'm least certain about the sentences in red (definite pursuing).

… … … … …

Dear H,

The end of the year is always a time for reflection and this year there is a lot to reflect on. I've spent a lot of time thinking about our relationship the last 6 months. Things really weren't going well the last few years, and so your decision to leave made sense in many ways. It still makes me sad, but I accept that you were unhappy and needed space.

One thing I still find so difficult is knowing that the things you want from a new relationship - more fun, more passion, more connection - are the same things I want. It's hard for me to understand why we would go our separate ways in search of that rather than choose to create the relationship we want, together. Or at least give it a try. I may never understand that.

I read a really enlightening book a few months ago called Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. In many ways it put into words what I drew the night you told me you wanted to separate (two overlapping circles). He explains how important it is for us to maintain a sense of self when we are in a long term relationship with another person. If we don't, we get lost and end up distancing ourselves from the other person to reduce the pressure we're feeling (the opposite of connection/intimacy). He says the solution is to learn to soothe our own anxieties and confront our own issues so not to unnecessarily burden the marriage. There was so much in this book that reminded me of our relationship. I think we both got a little lost/stuck the last few years and so it became difficult to articulate what we needed from the other person.

I hope through all of this, we will both find the happiness we deserve. If you never want to return to our relationship then I know I must accept this. I certainly don't want you to return to an unhappy marriage. I hope though, that you will reconsider your decision because I truly believe we have an amazing opportunity in front of us to create the relationship we want now that we've exposed these wounds.


G
Posted By: vossy Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/20/14 11:32 PM
Hi Ganb8te. I'm not sure how I feel about you giving over the letter, as it *generally* seems like a method of pursuit. However, in terms of how the letter reads, it is very calm and well articulated and to-the-point.

The only issue I have is that it seems, overall, that it is a question. It reads to me like it needs an answer. And I'm not sure he's ready to give you an answer.

I think you should continue to explore methods of communication with him and hanging out with him and being your best self, but I think you should try to avoid any R talk at this point.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 02:13 AM
Thanks, Vossy. Interesting perspective about it sounding like it's a question. I suppose you are right - I would like some definitive answer at some point but I'm not in a rush to get it right now and that is not the aim of the letter.
Posted By: Okabe Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 04:00 AM
Hey Ganb8te,
While I don't know your sitch too well I had a thought on your letter.
I know elsewhere in the forum they don't recommend suggesting R books or articles to your spouse.
Do you think the passage from the Snarch book would get through to your H? Or would it be simply resisted or discarded? I don't know how receptive he is to that kind of feedback. I have gotten tempted at times to send my W articles that I think would help but in reality she would probably turn a blind eye to or get annoyed by it.
Not saying I am right, just something to think about.
Posted By: Calibri Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 04:12 AM
I have to echo Okabe about the Snarch book paragraph. It could possibly come across as, "look - this is what's wrong with you, and how you can fx it."

My general advice, to take with a grain of salt cause I'm doing soooooooo well/sarcasm:

When in doubt, leave it out.

----

Also, I went back and re-read your threads. And I wanted to give you a virtual hug. Some of the things that your H said to you, mine said to me, or something similar. When my H told me he was moving out, it was promises of rainbows and butterflies: we will still talk, see each other, I'm right down the road if you need anything. And then the [censored] went downhill from there.

I just find it so strange that a globe apart, two women (and literally not just us, everyone here on the board and thousands of other people) are going through a eerily life changing situation. Makes the world seem smaller, and puts into perspective how we all can be connected by shared experiences.

Or my meds could be talking. :-)
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 04:22 AM
Its a good letter but I definitely wouldnt give it to him. I think you should concentrate in making the meet as pleasant and fun as you can.

If you think you MIGHT give the letter then you will spend the time looking for signs as to whether you should and that's going to be hard on both your detachment and your PMA.


Vossy is right
Put your focus on being your best self (as you want to be) and then just be.

Avoid R talks but if, and only if, he brings it up listen to what he has to say. It might be that you can offer to write a letter rather than talk about your feelings straightaway, but it would need a substantial and obvious cue before you did
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 04:48 AM
I would leave it at home, so your not temped.

It should happen naturally, without force like in the beginning.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 11:36 PM
Thanks, everyone for your input. I see there is a consensus - don't give him the letter. I'll let you know what I decide. Funnily enough, my IC also took a once over and encouraged me to make it even more from the heart. She's lovely, a bit of a romantic I think.

So, today is the day. I've sent H a few options for tonight. Two places we've never been to together and one we've been to once. Let's see what he picks...
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/21/14 11:39 PM
Hi Ganb8te,

I have to agree with the others that the letter is not a good idea at this point. I think it is a good letter but probably it is not the right time.

I have sent my H a few letters at the beginning of my situation. I will tell you that it did not really do anything positive for the situation. He replied to my letters - the first one with a brush off "thanks for sharing" type reply and the second with a heartfelt long letter telling me he was sorry but our relationship was OVER. Neither response made me feel very good nor helped me move on! So it was a waste of time.

And he and I also have a past history of communicating via writing so I get what you are saying about that being your most effective means of communication.

Maybe in the future the letter will be read, absorbed and appreciated but I think now you don't know enough about where his head is to know if the letter should be shared. Leave it at home and you can even mail it after you see him. But don't take it with you. Too much pressure.

Just try to go, have fun, look sexy, show positivity and be cool. This meeting may reveal nothing or it may set something in action. Just go and see.

I'm dealing with a possible meet up with my WAH this week too, I'm feeling stressed about it. Hope you are feeling better and positive!

Big hugs,
Lisa
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 12:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Calibri
Also, I went back and re-read your threads. And I wanted to give you a virtual hug. Some of the things that your H said to you, mine said to me, or something similar. When my H told me he was moving out, it was promises of rainbows and butterflies: we will still talk, see each other, I'm right down the road if you need anything. And then the [censored] went downhill from there.

I just find it so strange that a globe apart, two women (and literally not just us, everyone here on the board and thousands of other people) are going through a eerily life changing situation. Makes the world seem smaller, and puts into perspective how we all can be connected by shared experiences.

Or my meds could be talking. :-)


Thanks, Calibri, for catching up on my threads. My story is a tad dull…long gaps punctuated by meet ups that don't really change much. It's uncanny though, that there are so many similarities across everyone's experiences. Like even down to the wording… And knowing that you all are out there, totally changes my view of the people around me. Like people in the street, I wonder what they are going though behind the scenes.

Your experience is one that I relate to more than others, as I do wonder if depression played a role in my H's decision. There was no open acknowledgement of it before he left, so it's hard to say. But looking back on the 6 months prior to BD (and even earlier) I do think there were some signs. Also, some of the things you've said about yourself - not wanting to change the core of yourself but wanting to be more compassionate, less hard, less controlling and needing to learn to bit your tongue - this is how I feel about me, too. And regular yoga and mindfulness practice are helping me get there, so keep it up girl ;-) I am so glad to see that Labug has started reading your thread. Her advice to you speaks very much to me, as do her own threads.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 01:30 AM
Originally Posted By: LisaB

I have sent my H a few letters at the beginning of my situation. I will tell you that it did not really do anything positive for the situation. He replied to my letters - the first one with a brush off "thanks for sharing" type reply and the second with a heartfelt long letter telling me he was sorry but our relationship was OVER. Neither response made me feel very good nor helped me move on! So it was a waste of time.


Thanks, Lisa. I guess I wasn't expecting that H would respond to the letter. Given Vossy's impression that it sounds like it is a question and given your experience getting responses above, I am rethinking.

Originally Posted By: LisaB

Just try to go, have fun, look sexy, show positivity and be cool. This meeting may reveal nothing or it may set something in action. Just go and see.


OK, so what is everyone's take on the word COOL as MWD uses it?

1. Cool - as in awesome
2. Cool - as in luke warm or unenthusiastic
3. Cool - as in calm and composed

I guess I've been aiming for 1 and 3, but am wondering if 2 would seem more consistent with moving on
Posted By: vossy Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 02:08 AM
Cool as in AWESOME!
Posted By: raliced Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 03:05 AM
Cool as in confident, poised and compelling.

You can do it Ganb8te!
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 10:43 AM
Well then. 1.23hrs. That's a record for us since BD (x 2 or 3). It wasn't fun but it was the most authentic. The low down:

+1 Ganbatte for suggesting somewhere new (after we arrived, he specifically said he wanted to go somewhere new). Cool place. Hardly recognizable from outside. H found the actual door. And that's why I love him.

He gets the first round and says "you can get the next one." Huh? So this isn't going to be as quick as I expected.

Small chit chat about work, family, his travel plans, etc. He seems agitated from the get go (almost like first time we saw each other after BD) so I try to relax for us both. Did I mention I went to yoga immediately before and focussed on my breathing on the way to our meet up? I mentioned that I was shocked to learn the news about his best friend (open heart survey to remove a benign tumor). He was surprised that I knew about it. To which I said I had spoken with his wife and sent a gift but they had not acknowledged it so I'm not sure if I stepped over the time. He said it was kind of me and that they should have acknowledged it (interesting).

At some point he asks about my plans for the holidays. I say that I'm going back to my parent's place tomorrow and that I was trying to organize a last minute trip to Cambodia after that but it fell through (true) so I'll probably just go to Uluru (Ayers Rock) or the Daintree (rainforest, far north Australia) instead (true). After a little bit he asks who with. I was probably too quick to say "by myself" and so I backed it up with "group tour" (there are single males, not that I'm looking ;-) )

At some point he goes to the loo and gets another drink and returns to say "I'm sorry. It's nice to see you, I'm just frustrated." Why are you frustrated? Long pause. Did.not.interupt.his.chain.of.thought. He explains that this is not what he imagined - me going on holidays by myself and "not that he thinks things should be different" but just that it makes him sad.

More chit chat. He's still doing yoga twice a week. As am I H, three to four times a week. My goal is to conquer crow pose in the next month ;-), and last night I did my first inversion! Heck maybe I'll even go to the upcoming yoga retreat…there's a band playing that we both liked at one of the music festivals we went to a while ago. He's seen the ads. Consciously trying not to get into R talk. He goes to the loo again. We talk about him renewing his visa (easy - phew) and the siege in Sydney.

Eventually he calls me out on making small talk. I say that I was hoping tonight would be fun. He says "maybe some day we'll get together and it will be fun…" but something to the effect that tonight was not that night.

…after some good PMA and self control, the rest is a bit of a blur as I was in tears and he was borderline (in no particular order):
- he was definitely the first to bring up R talk, after I resisted for a long, long while
- at some point he says something alluding again to the fact that he's still sad, to which I responded: "Well I'm dealing with that by going to a therapist, doing yoga, doing mindfulness meditation, and lot's of reading….I came across a good book that helped me understand some of the things that went wrong in our R." He says "I'm doing all those things, too" (therapist, much?) and *literally* says "Maybe you can text me the details (of the book)"
- he says "People don't change"
- he says "You're an amazing person" but "You're not a good match for me" "I'm not a good match for
you"
- I sorta conveyed what I said in my letter but with much less finesse :-( I said for the first time we seem to be on the same page (things weren't going well) and that before I didn't understand he was so unhappy. To which he said something like "How sad is that". I refrained from saying…we'll it ain't like you communicated that very clearly!
- he says "let's meet in February" (one of my goals for the evening was not to suggest that we meet again, which I didn't)
- he says he doesn't want to sit here and cry so makes a move for the door…at which point I say no, he's not going to leave me here, wait for me to finish my drink (ugh...that goes way back, he used to do this and it used to irk me and so I stated my boundary thinking how it would need to be for our new R…but it was probably too early, so my bad. But he stayed…)
- he calls me "hon" at some point on the conversation
- we hug at the end (first time since BD)
- he walked away to catch the bus and was looking at his phone…not reading into that

… … … … … …

Intense. Friends, this is not someone who has moved on. He is someone who can't see us being together in the short term. I am clearly under his skin but he can't see that things could be different if we both committed to the such.

Please help.




Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 11:26 AM
Hi Ganb8te

actually I think you did really well. A couple of the most minor points where you could have done slightly better but you already picked those up and they were so minor he probably didnt notice

two bits i just want to pick up on if you dont mind

Originally Posted By: Ganb8te

- he says "People don't change"


To me this is the key line in all of this. People change all the time its how we grow as people, the difference is which parts you choose to cultivate (you might even be ok to say this some time)

Now you are showing those changes in the way your conducting yourself - he just may take some time to believe them.


Originally Posted By: Ganb8te

I came across a good book that helped me understand some of the things that went wrong in our R." He says "I'm doing all those things, too" (therapist, much?) and *literally* says "Maybe you can text me the details (of the book)"


I do think you should text him the details of a book, just not necessarily DR or DB or which ever book you were referring to. If you sent DR he might think he is being played where as if you texted something like 5 LL or His needs, Her needs then this may have a more self improvement slant (its about you rather than the marriage itself)
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 11:33 AM
The book I was referring to was Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch! (the one I mentioned in the letter…that I didn't give him). Definitely not going to give him DB/DR per DB/DR rules!

I plan to follow up with a text in a couple of days. 5LL might be a good one to throw in, too ;-)
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 11:47 AM
Ganb8te! Awesome! You did great and it sounds like a bit of a breakthrough.

He is sad but feeling hopeless. So how can we get him to have some hope?

I think it is a good idea to text him the book info but see if you can do it in a 180 way. Or just make it really clear that you aren't pursuing/telling him to read it. Maybe say something like "hey here is the name of the book I was telling you about. I found it fascinating!" Not something like "I hope it helps you to ..." or "I think it shows a lot about us .." Not that you would say anything like that but just see how you might be able to show the complete opposite?

What do you think about employing my previous style of ideas now? I think maybe that could give some hope or flip the situation a bit. I don't know if you recall but my suggestions were a bit pursuing but in a confident and friendly way I think.

For example while he is on his trip maybe send him some photos of you on your trip (looking hot of course) or just some photos of gorgeous scenery or amazing food. Not "thinking of you, wish you were here" but "hey, isn't this incredible?!"

Basically keep in touch in a fun, friendly and relaxed way. Build a friendship. Show him that you have a lot in common. Don't bug him with a million messages but just maybe see if you can build a connection in a fun way.

I think it is so funny that you are both dealing with the break up with the same methods - yoga, therapy, meditation. What about connecting with him over yoga, like sending an occasional text about something you accomplished? Make it a competition? Who can conquer crow first? haha

Maybe I am off base but it looks like he is trying to avoid his feelings and wish them away but he can't. You can't rush him through the process but maybe you can try to build a connection so that he can have hope for the future. It seems maybe in your case a friendship would be a good thing. Even if he has OW it doesn't sound like that is the issue.

Well, those are just my few cents of thoughts. Probably worthless. smile

I hope you are not feeling too down the next day. These emotional conversations can leave me feeling so sad the next day.

I think this is great!

Hugs and kisses,
Lisa
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 02:13 PM
You wait till I update my tonight, it's scarey!
Posted By: labug Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 04:23 PM
Originally Posted By: ganb8te
Yoga has been one of my go to GAL activities since BD. I've done it on and off for years but never with a studio, always a gym or class arranged at work. I'm loving my new studio. Last weekend was the Christmas party and they had a DJ in to mix the music. It was so fun! Best of all, I can see my practice getting better. I used to look at photos of people doing crazy poses and think I could never do that. Lately though, I've been looking at them and thinking wow...I'm working my way up to that!

As a start, I hereby pledge that I will conquer crow pose by the time this thread locks.

Last thread here

Thanks once again to everyone who shares their story here and to everyone who stops by to read mine. You've helped me out of some dark places and for that I am eternally grateful.

Namaste.


I just noticed your thread title.

How's it going with crow?
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 10:28 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
I just noticed your thread title. How's it going with crow?


Thanks for stopping by, Labug! Last night I did my first face plant. I just ducked my head and went with it. Didn't hurt one bit. One of life's great lessons ;-)

There's been a bit more activity on my thread that usual so I'm going to have to step it up if I want to conquer crow by the end of this one. Any tips? I know you are also a yogi. Poor upper body strength is my biggest yoga limitation. Even downward dog seems challenging some days.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 10:57 PM
Originally Posted By: LisaB
He is sad but feeling hopeless. So how can we get him to have some hope?

What do you think about employing my previous style of ideas now?
...
Well, those are just my few cents of thoughts. Probably worthless. smile
...
I hope you are not feeling too down the next day. These emotional conversations can leave me feeling so sad the next day.


Thanks, Lisa. Your few cents are priceless to me! I'm not sure that I'm ready to execute your list just yet but believe me, it is still in my back pocket and I intend to pull it out once I feel like he is ready for that.

As for today, I'm ok. Didn't sleep well but I'm generally ok. I'm happy with how things went last night (from a DB perspective anyway). I should have validated more. It's easy for me to fall back into old patterns and think "but he didn't say much that I could validate". I need to look for those moments. This is my biggest weakness I think, and something I really need to work on.

I need to trust in this process and let him walk his own path through this. One thing that he did say (and which I forgot to mention last night) was something to the effect of "Ganbatte made many mistakes, and H made even more mistakes." That's the first time that he's acknowledged that a) we played a role in the course of events (i.e. it wasn't just a natural process) and b) we BOTH played a role in the course of events. So it seems he is working his way through this (perhaps with the therapist).

My plan from here:
1. Txt him the details about the book tomorrow morning. I agree Lisa that I should just drop the name and leave it at that. He can decide if he wants to read it. Apropos the comment above about validation I may switch to email instead and throw in a "Thanks for sharing your feelings. I know that it can be difficult" or something to that effect. Ideas?
2. Not going to contact him again til on or after 6 Jan (his birthday) and only then say "Happy birthday, H. I hope you had a great day."
3. Wait for him to initiate contact (most likely February, based on the conversation above)
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 11:27 PM
2 and 3 on your action list are good plans but will you respond if he initiates between now and 6 Jan? or are you only talking about initiating contact

with regard to 1.

I would be tempted to stick with just
'XXXXXXX is the book i mentioned the other day, i found it really interesting.

you could add a
'let me know what you think'

if you want to throw in the validation, which i'm not sure is a great idea, then you might want to consider something like

'Thanks for sharing your feelings. I know that it can be difficult so i'm pleased you felt you could'

the added bit is a reminder that he felt safe with you at that time and i think adds sincerity to the thanks because it shows you felt it was a positive thing
Posted By: Old Dog Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/22/14 11:34 PM
Well done ganb8te. I also think you did fantastically well.

And Lisa, your few cents are certainly not worthless. You do yourself a disservice saying so.

I think you're all right about the book. Just checked my own library and I'm missing that one.

I'm good at the sleeping dog in my yoga class.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/23/14 09:15 PM
Originally Posted By: jim0987
2 and 3 on your action list are good plans but will you respond if he initiates between now and 6 Jan? or are you only talking about initiating contact


Experience tells me he's unlikely to initiate contact. Besides, he's away for much of the time between now and then. If he does, well in my case I think it makes sense to be responsive. As Lisa said, the main obstacle seems to be that he feels hopeless right now - thinking that people don't change so things can't be different. I forgot to mention that I said the other night (in context, in a calm voice) it would be useful to understand more specifically what he thinks would need to change. He responded by saying he didn't want to sit there and make me feel bad and that maybe we would talk about it later. Maybe he'll put some thought to it and decide that they aren't such big obstacles after all...

At my parents place for the next few days. Can't shake the feeling that there is someone missing...
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/23/14 10:01 PM
Awww Ganb8te! Well, I am glad you liked some of my ideas. I think letting him find his own path is the best plan. I just thought maybe mixing it up with some lighthearted playful connection would be ok. Maybe for the future...

Sleeping dog.. yes that is also my favorite pose, Old Dog! smile

I think validating is great but too much sappiness is pursuing. Maybe say "xxxx is the name of the book. Hope you find it interesting. It was good to see you and I hope you have a great trip home!"

Happy holidays sweet Ganbatte! Hugs!
Posted By: Nettles Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/24/14 05:35 AM
Hi G. Just offering up some suggestions.

The birthday text - If H sends you Holiday wishes or Happy New Year wishes, then send a birthday text. If H is silent on these, be silent on the birthday. H will set the standard on these type of communications.

Next contact - H already has it in mind when this will be, so no contact. It appears H is on his path and he must travel it alone. It must be done. Let H have the space.

I noticed in some of the conversation you posted that H would say something and you turned the focus to you. Perhaps this is just the way it was written and isn't a transcript, but could it be happening? Dealing with this and yoga are two examples where you don't write about H's experience, but how you tell H what you are doing. Did you ask probing questions? Just wondering.

Keep working on your breathing G. You'll get there.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/27/14 12:42 AM
All great points, Nettles. Thank you.

I think it is probably just the way I wrote it. I'm actually quite a private person and don't like to be the centre of attention (we are both that way). Writing about things that are going on in my life feels quite odd for me in many ways and I'm mindful of the fact that he probably wouldn't want details of his life shared either. So I probably write more about me and my thought processes for that reason. Also emphasise DB principles to get feedback. But you are right, there were moments where I could have done more to keep the focus on him.

As for asking probing questions - I feel a need to tread carefully here. H can get annoyed when I ask questions and this is going to be a tough dynamic to crack. While I think he needs to learn to give me the benefit of the doubt (know that I'm asking because I care even if it comes across in a different way) I also think I need to change the way I ask questions. This relates to my comment about communication/listening/validation being my weakest link. I think I may look into some courses in the new year. Reading about communication is one thing but practicing it is another.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/27/14 10:50 PM
Well SIL's wedding is on right now. Wish I could be a fly on the wall for that one. Alas no, I'm at the airport about to go to Australia's red centre for a solo get away.

I did end up sending a text to H with the book info before he left. No reply - but I didn't expect one. Also sent a one line email to SIL to wish them a great day today. Not sure if anything will come of that. She's not been in touch with me since BD which makes me a tad angry when I think about it. Whatever.

After a month or so of silence my H's best mate's wife sent me a few texts the last couple of days - asking for my address, sending Christmas photos and well wishes from their respective families. Interesting given that I told H just the other day that I hadn't heard back from them after I sent his mate a get well gift. Anywho, I'm glad to know that they are still thinking (well) of me. H will see them some time over the next week. I'm pretty sure they will give him a gentle earful about his recent dubious decision.
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/27/14 11:10 PM
Ayers Rock is awesome, so is the olgas.
Alice and its attractions are good too. You will have to let me know what you think, when you get back.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/28/14 12:50 PM
Hurting tonight.

I'm sitting under a spectacular night sky in front of my single person safari tent (yet bizarrely still have good phone signal). Had an amazing day watching the sunset over Uluru. Tomorrow we'll get up at 3.45am to go see the sun rise. Yay for GAL + seeing Australia.

Meanwhile, I've also seen the photos on FB of my SILs wedding a world away. There's a photo of my H there with his brother and his wife. He's wearing a nice smile. It just feels rotten that I'm not there.

Sometimes I wonder if I've not really come to terms with the fact that my M may not work out. I know I'll be ok regardless (truly) but I still hold out such hope that it will work out. Tell me - am I delusional? Does our meet up the other day seem like someone who is ready to walk away? Somehow I imagined that people who are ready to move on would be (1) more composed and content with themselves, not throwing peanut shells across the table because they are frustrated that this isn't what they imagined (e.g. me traveling solo) and (2) not anticipating future meet ups (e.g. suggesting we meet up in February).

I know there are no guarantees but some sort of measure of feasibility would be nice!

Have a good day fellow DBers. I'm off to bed.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/28/14 12:54 PM
G, what a wonderful trip you're on!

Labug posted a quote from Robx on my thread yesterday that might help you.

There isn't more I can say, I'm no good at reading tea leaves.

Enjoy your trip. It sounds bucket-list-worthy.
Posted By: Barrybran Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/28/14 01:34 PM
That was a good read. Thanks Maybell and Labug.

G, I don't think you're delusional at all. It sounds like your husband is either curious or courteous, and highly conflicted about what his future looks like. It's tough to deal with at times but you're already on a great path; this trip is an example. You're doing something for yourself, not wallowing around in self-pity and creating stories to tell people in the future. Stay patient, keep your interactions with your husband light and be grateful for the interactions you do have with him. Enjoy the rest of your trip!
Posted By: labug Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/28/14 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: ganb8te
Originally Posted By: labug
I just noticed your thread title. How's it going with crow?


Thanks for stopping by, Labug! Last night I did my first face plant. I just ducked my head and went with it. Didn't hurt one bit. One of life's great lessons ;-)

There's been a bit more activity on my thread that usual so I'm going to have to step it up if I want to conquer crow by the end of this one. Any tips? I know you are also a yogi. Poor upper body strength is my biggest yoga limitation. Even downward dog seems challenging some days.


Tips? Just something I learned from mindfulness which carries over into yoga-"paying attention in a particular way; on purpose, in the present moment, and non judgmentally."

And my favorite yoga thought, non-striving.
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/29/14 01:18 AM
Yeah funny about Ayers Rock, a gazzllion miles from anywhere and it has top mobile and Internet but no grid power.

The inside of our country is a real contrast and both backwards and modern all at once.

Love it, is it green or red atm. When I went there was hardly and red as they had more wet than ever before. I was disappointed in the no red sands.

Bush mice were funny, tho big things with funny feet every where. Quite cute but boy they could infest something quick tho.
Posted By: Little Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 12/29/14 02:18 AM
That's hilarious. I barely get cell service in my apartment. And people say America is the capitalist society with our noses too into our electronics. LOL
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/02/15 06:51 AM
Well I am back from a truly spectacular trip. Turns out there was no internet connectivity out near Kings Canyon. I moved from my safari tent to a swag one night and literally slept under the stars. I was terrified of the idea at first (there were scorpions and dingos around apparently) so I said YES I will do it! I woke at 4am to a truly amazing sky and saw numerous shooting stars. I wished for you know what... The walk around the base of Uluru (Ayers Rock) was probably the highlight. So humbling to have an aboriginal guide show us rock paintings by his "grandfather"……dating back 22,000 years. Certainly brings some perspective in terms of my significance in the history of the universe!

Maybell - If only we all could read tea leaves! I'm pleased to report that I've now done TWO bucket-list worthy things in the last 6 months (the other being Diner en Blanc). Thank you for the reminder about the Robx quote (and thanks Labug for posting it originally). I did go back and read the whole thing after skimming it the first time round. There are some good reminders there. Slow is fast.

Barrybran - Thank you. I needed to hear those words. Great point about being grateful for the interactions I do have with H (Robx made that point too, if I recall). I'd lost sight of that given that our interactions are still quite tense at the moment. I'm hopeful things will get better in time. The idea of not interacting with him makes be genuinely sad, so I must be appreciative of what I do have.

Labug - Love it! You may have seen my post on Calibri's thread (I found it easier to navigate the treacherous Kings Canyon rim walk because I felt more purposeful in my movement). It was so great to feel my mindfulness and yoga practice paying off in this practical way. One of the things I'm striving for in 2015 is to learn to be less judgmental - of people, events, whatever. Purposeful + present + non-judgmental. I think I will adopt that as my mantra.

Ggrass - there was a lot of red sand but I was surprised at how much green vegetation there was. It rained 5 days before so maybe everything just came out? I didn't see any hopping mice. Just dingoes and brumbies. I was the only Australian in a group of 23. The guide had been working there for a year and this was only the third time she had an Australian on her tour. I think we should all be made to do it!

Little - yeah, my sister in London has major problems with her cell phone signal in her house. I suppose the old buildings weren't designed with that in mind?! I did a safari in Uganda a few years ago and was so disappointed that I still had phone signal out there. Made it hard to appreciate that I really was seeing wild elephants etc and not just animals in a park or something.

Happy New Year everyone. May 2015 be a year of peace, love and happiness for us all.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/02/15 07:32 AM
Welcome back. Sounds like an amazing trip
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/02/15 07:15 PM
Sounds like an amazing trip! You inspire me!

Happy new year lovely ganb8te!!!

Hugs, Lisa
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/03/15 04:26 AM
Yeah, Kings canyon had nuffink.

But it's a great part of the world, the little mice are native big almost like rats. Bush mice.

They used to come out when you stoped any where and they can smell water if you drop some. They are everywhere when that happens.

Australians tend not to do organised tours. as the guides don't know that much. Aboringal guides are best depending on the guide you get or the crowd. Australians tend to dismiss the native culture and some of their stuff is very different to what you would expect.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/05/15 11:46 AM
Still trying to decide whether I'll send a birthday text to my H tomorrow. H didn't text over the holidays, but I didn't expect him to. Probably not a deal breaker either way.

I know I've turned a few of you on to the Headspace mindfulness app. I also have he book by the same name/author. It's a useful companion. Interestingly the author first came to meditation as an 11yo, when his mum turned to meditation during a messy divorce.

Anyway, I came across a passage the other day that I wanted to share with you as it seems relevant to our work here. The set up is that the author is recalling a story his Tibetan teacher once told him. I've substituted some DB words for effect. See if you can pick which ones ;-)

... ... ...

“Imagine every day you have to walk to work." ..."Toward the end of this street there is a very big hole [substitute:cheese less tunnel]"... “[Every] day you go down the same street and walk straight into the [cheese less tunnel]. You don’t mean to do it, it’s just that you’ve got so used to following that particular path...that you do it without even thinking.” ... “Now...when you start to meditate it’s like you wake up and become more aware of what’s going on around you.” ... “[At] first you just see the [cheese less tunnel], but the habit of walking down that part of the street is so strong that you can’t help but walk straight into it” ... “But...if you continue meditating, you’ll begin to see the [cheese less tunnel] much earlier and be able to take some evasive action. At first you may try to go around the edge and fall in anyway. This is part of the process. But eventually, with practice, you’ll see it with such clarity that you’ll simply walk around it and continue on your way.”

Excerpt From: Puddicombe, Andy. “Get Some Headspace.” St. Martin’s Griffin. iBooks.
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/05/15 11:59 AM
Wow g! That's eactly what happened to me! Exactly.

I flew over the bloody cheeseless tunnel I finally got it. You can too. I am seriously thick at times.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/05/15 12:07 PM
Thanks for the app recommendation - I'll give that a go

Personally given your interaction recently i would text but only a simple 'Happy Birthday' or the kind of standard office birthday card message.

it acknowledges but doesnt pursue. He may respond, he may not but it wont hurt you.
Posted By: Calibri Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/05/15 04:20 PM
Send a text. You'll wonder if you don't. At least I would.

Echoing Jim - it won't hurt you either way.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/05/15 09:30 PM
Glad you liked the passage, Gg. I think I am at the point in the passage where I can see the tunnels and stop myself falling in, but I can't quite figure out the alternative route. Sounds like you are well on track.

Thanks, Jim and Calibri, for weighing in on the bday text. I am leaning toward sending it.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/06/15 09:41 PM
Mmmm. Sent the text around 8pm last night. Read at 3.46am. Mind wanders off....

1. He was out partying til late (on a Tuesday, ya'll; Lisa and Mozza's sitches are coming to mind)
2. He's not sleeping well (he probably has jetlag. Truth be told, it was 4am when I saw that he picked it up...probably more to do with my neighbours noizy aircon unit)
3. He's in a different timezone (but I thought he was back)
4. Any number of other possibilities

Is there a way to turn off the time stamp in iOS? I know how to set it so others can't see when I read a text, but can I set it so I can't see when they read it even if they have this feature turned on?

Anyway, I made some good progress with crow pose last night so it all evens out.
Posted By: Little Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/06/15 09:46 PM
Double check your settings, G. My understanding is that if you've turned if off so that others can't tell when YOU'VE read a text, it goes the other way, too (you shouldn't be able to see when THEY'VE read it).

I could be very wrong, but that's my understanding.
Posted By: Zelda09 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/06/15 09:48 PM
G - Apple forums usually have good articles, but I don't think so.

I know it's hard to imagine the best with too much information and it all has a way of being a nuisance, no matter if you imagine them miserable, happy, or anything else.

Happy New Year to you, I am inspired with all the joys and goals you're going after.
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 01:36 AM
Happy new year my dear! One way I do it is to send the message and then delete it from my records so I can't see if they read it. Does that make sense?

Not useful if you like to keep a history but useful for detaching! Send then delete, can't check if they read it and can't obsess as much...

If you turn off your read receipts it still shows theirs.

I totally get what you are describing with the reading your messages in the middle of the night. Like you said it could be any manner of things: different time zone, out partying for his b day, woke up in the middle of the night because he was depressed and went to sleep at 7pm... Who knows!

Hugs,
Lisa
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 11:46 AM
Thanks, Little, for the suggestion. Sounds like that won't do the trick.

Hey Zelda. Thanks for stopping by my thread. Glad to hear you find it inspiring! I'll head over and check out your sitch soon.

Wow, Lisa. Delete the evidence? I'm not sure if I could do that! I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to texts and emails. Good suggestion though. I envy your ability to let go sometimes! Hope things are ok in your circles.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 11:49 AM
Ugh. Having one of my impatient, frustrated, needy days today. Probably because I let my mind go wild with the idea that H might actually respond to my bday text having turned a leaf after his trip back home.

Sometimes I just want to call him up and say: “Look, what’s going on here? Is there someone else? What are your plans once we’re eligible to file? Personally, I don’t really get this. I know things weren’t great in the lead up to BD but they weren’t always that way. After all my reading and IC sessions I’ve reached the conclusion that we are a totally normal couple with really common problems that just need to get worked through. There are MCs, couples retreats, so many things available to couples like us that have problems like ours. Why don’t we just hanker down and get this done? If we don’t they’re bound to resurface in our new relationships and we’ll have to work through them then. I’d much rather do that work with you because - in spite of everything - I actually still like you and am attracted to you. Do you still have feelings for me? You seem like you do. OK then, take my hand and lets do this!”

Right then. Just wanted to get that off my chest...
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 12:02 PM
I have every text for the past nearly 3 years.

I will need mine for L, and perhaps court.
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 12:07 PM
Hi Ganb8te

Not just you having those feelings, I'd love - just love - to be in a position to say the same to w, but I suspect I'd get "its not that simple" back either that or "nothings changed since..".

Not sure about you but its the Mr Fixit in me, somethings broken, it appears to be fixable so the problem is... Last months have been about me looking closely at those drives and realising I can only change me, if w choses to be off in her own world with her own edited memories then I cant do much about that except sort myself, 180 and be the best me I can starting with how those changes appear and then making them a core of me.

It does seem so very counter-intuitive and complicated when it feels it shouldnt be though.

Short version, you're not alone in feeling that way.

Hang on in there.

Edz
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/07/15 12:10 PM
On the text front are you using straightforward SMS (GMS messaging) or the IOS version (imessage) you can tell as mms/sms's are green imessage texts are blue.

Config is different depending on which you're using which may be causing you issues.
Posted By: LisaB Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 12:45 AM
Hi Ganb8te, sorry you are having one of those frustrating days, I hate those. You just want to smack some sense into them or at least find out what is "going on". Sadly, it won't work.

I too am a hoarder of messages and then deleted them in a fit of anger one day. Then it became easier to delete as I went along. The other day in a fit of anger I deleted almost all photos of him from my phone, even the cute ones where we look super happy.

There are some ways to download all the message history to the computer and then you can delete them from the phone but I think it is a bit complicated. I looked into it before. As usual with these things google is your best buddy!

Those of you talking about imessage I'm afraid that you can see their read time even if you change your settings so that they cannot see yours. I know this because these are my settings on my phone and I can see their read times. Maybe there is a way to change it but it isn't automatic. My best advice is to delete it. But I know that is hard!

Hope summer is treating you nicely Ganb8te! Those of us in the cold north are jealous, well, at least I am!

Hugs, Lisa
Posted By: Calibri Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 02:18 AM
Originally Posted By: ganb8te


Sometimes I just want to call him up and say: “Look, what’s going on here? Is there someone else? What are your plans once we’re eligible to file? Personally, I don’t really get this. I know things weren’t great in the lead up to BD but they weren’t always that way. After all my reading and IC sessions I’ve reached the conclusion that we are a totally normal couple with really common problems that just need to get worked through. There are MCs, couples retreats, so many things available to couples like us that have problems like ours. Why don’t we just hanker down and get this done? If we don’t they’re bound to resurface in our new relationships and we’ll have to work through them then. I’d much rather do that work with you because - in spite of everything - I actually still like you and am attracted to you. Do you still have feelings for me? You seem like you do. OK then, take my hand and lets do this!”

Right then. Just wanted to get that off my chest...


Heyyyyyyyy, I may or may not have said something similar to my H in the past. It got a mixed response with the end result being, he's still not home. *throws confetti in the air* he is talking to me though. So, maybe slight progress.

Re: read receipts. Unless your H turns it off on his end, you're going to see it. So, either you'll have to delete the text after you send it, or be faced with the knowledge that he read it and didn't say anything.

I'm assuming he hasn't said anything?

This is so hard. I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. I know how infuriating it is when text messages aren't responded to. I know how unsettling it can be to want to work on so,etching so much, but have to wait and see. IT blows.

So, you just got back from a trip, what's next on the GAL scene?

Personally, I'm binge watching shows on netflix, training for a competition and going to go and start spending time helping my family at our mountain house.

Hugs to you.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 10:58 AM
Oh man. You guys and with all your posting. At this rate I'm going to have to up my game with the crow pose practice. Nearly at the end of this thread! (Which is a cheeky way of saying thanks so much guys for stopping by to lift my spirits - it has worked!)

So I think I figured out a solution thanks to Edz' reminder about text vs iMessage. Read receipts only come through with iMessage. Soooo...if we toggle from iMessage to text right before we send something to our WAS I'm pretty sure we won't get read receipts. Woot!

Feeling a bit better this afternoon. Good yoga practice tonight, and funnily enough my employer just sent around a recommendation for Headspace. I'm ahead of the curve!

Calibri - at this stage I'm not even expecting my H to reply to my texts. Thankfully I would still put us in the category of "still talking" since he does still reach out - even if on his schedule - every couple of months. I don't expect our next contact to be til February or later based on what he said last time. I have no plans to make contact. Must have faith in this process and leave him be… In the meantime I need to work on my validation skills. In hindsight I missed some opportunities at our last meetup.

In terms of GAL I've got a few things to look forward to:
- Yoga 3x per week - just signed up to a vinyasa party class with live music and drumming (?!)
- Music festival next Fri - volunteer gig, this festival just happens to include one of my favourite bands ;-)
- (New) friends bday get together week after next
- Spoke with a friend last night about going out to her place in the mountains for some personalised yoga training (sort out my downward facing dogs) and rock climbing
- Possible yoga retreat end Feb
- Must.finish.my.paper.mâché.moose.trophy.head.craft.project.that.I.started.months.ago!
- Need to book into a mozzarella or pasta making class (Xmas gift)
- Probably going to conference in Amsterdam end March - trying to tack on a week in London to visit sis after that
- Probably going to Tanzania for work in April/May - thinking of tacking on a safari or trip to Zanzibar (one of my favourite places ever)

One of my goals is to expand my social circle so I need to find a few more things that get me meeting new people. I found a kayak meetup group that looks interesting. I’ve also come across a women’s trekking training group which sounds cool - but I’m not sure if I’m ready to invest in that given that I have no immediate goal of climbing Kilimanjaro or Everest (still relatively early days DBing though so who knows!) Oh…that reminds me about Oxfam Trailwalker! 100km in 48hrs, teams of 4. Tried to get on a team last year but missed out, so need to start looking now.

Still toying with the idea of joining St Johns Ambulance as a volunteer (provides first aid at public events).

I also came across a nonviolent communication monthly practice group that I want to make some inquiries about. Not sure if that counts as GAL, but it is something to do nonetheless.

Wow. That felt good to write out! Husband Who?
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 11:22 AM
That's some serious plans...I like it a lot. Have you been to London before?

And anyone who is making a paper mache moose head goes up enormously in my estimation.

St Johns is really worthwhile as is red cross who will likely do similar stuff. My SIL does St Johns and loves it.
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 11:23 AM
Glad I was able to help ganb8te smile
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 11:24 AM
See if I made a papier Mache moose head I would have to say Mooosssssee every time I saw it, but thats just me obviously

...everyone backs away slowly smiling.



*In my defense I only slept 3 hours last night wink
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 11:29 AM
In fairness I say moooossseee quite a lot anyway without the moose head.
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 11:56 AM
Well thats good we can be quite bonkers together Jim wink

A FT quote I take it?
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 12:23 PM
What the heck are you guys talking about? I've been googling and can't figure it out.

Jim - yes, I've been to London a couple of times. Love it. I'm the only one in my family who hasn't lived there. It's a rite of passage for Australians don't you know? I instead fled the mother country and settled in New England for several years before moving back to Australia.
Posted By: jim0987 Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 12:40 PM
I think we are just being very British

I'm sure I read somewhere that by population London is Australia's 4th largest city.

I've travelled a little bit, not enough though, and there aren't many places to rival London.
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/08/15 01:59 PM
Oh yes, people of a certain age in the UK grew up with the TV show Fawlty Towers (which is AMAZINGLY,embarassingly unPC now I saw it recently) one episode has, for reasons we wont enter into, a moose head on the wall. Theres a line "I am a moooooosee" so if you saw it as a kid, and copied it as a kid, you probably still say it now whenever you think Moose.

And yes, its both British and (at least for me) showing I'm quite, quite odd.
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 12:30 AM
Australia imports bucket loads of British sit coms and comedy.

Faulty towers good life goodies dr who 2 Ronnies vicor of dibley
Red dwarf young ones the bill lots of others but they are the ones that spring to mind.

Wow gran,busy busy. I cannot be that busy, I need quiet down time. H wanted to rush about and do 3 squillon things at once. While fun, it wasn't that relaxing to be honnest, especially with h nagging me to do things at his pace.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 10:20 AM
....and they are all on about the 40th re-run. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen the moose episode.
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 10:22 AM
It may have been skipped.

Its from the now PC-controversial "The Germans" - which had Basil (after being hit on the head by the aforementioned moose's head and getting a concussion) behaving in a way hilarious to audiences then then but extremely un-pc for broadcasters now!
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 10:48 AM
Hmmm...that does actually ring some bells.

So right now I have the choice between 2 Brit shows: Snog Marry Avoid and Midsomer Murders. Tough call...
Posted By: Barrybran Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 10:59 AM
What? No soccer? :p
Posted By: edz Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 11:01 AM
Hmmmm Snog Marry Avoid or Midsomer Murders....hmmm.....

I'd have to go with........................hmmmmm

Sherlock.
Posted By: gan Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 11:26 AM
Yep - we get that, too. Honestly, our ABC may was well be called BBC.

I enjoy the World Cup when it comes around, Barrybran, but don't really follow the Socceroos in between (for somewhat obvious reasons...just now reinforced by the 0:1 score).
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Ganb8te 3 - conquering crow pose - 01/09/15 11:57 AM
There was cricket on!


Bloody boring stuff! Tennis must have been on another channel
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