Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Calibri Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/24/14 05:41 PM
I apologize in advance for the length of this intro post(s). I realize the more depth the better -- and I'll have to post multiple times to get the whole story out.

-----
H&I are both 31. Have been together for 10 years, married for 4. No kids. We both come from not so nice backgrounds. His mother is an alcoholic, possible prescription pill addict (at one time), with undiagnosed bi-polar or borderline personality disorder. His father enabled mother’s alcoholism, much to the dismay of H and H brother. Husband has self-esteem, co-dependency and people pleasing issues stemming from this (this is not mind reading – confirmed by him, and therapist, and well, what I’ve witnessed first hand). He also HATES confrontation. Learned to avoid it living with his mother. Mother is very volatile, manipulative, and controlling.

I come from divorced parents, my father is a bipolar, prone to violence off his meds. Father in and out of my life depending on if he was med compliant. Mother remarried – step-father was a very difficult person to grow up with. He’s mellowed out over the years, but let me tell you….being raised by someone fresh out of the military with no experience with children is not something I would wish upon anyone. I have abandonment and insecurity issues stemming from my bio dad and his mental illness. Having dealt with my dad, and dealing with some not so nice other issues (abuse) over the years – I’ve become, for a lack of better words – a tough b*tch. I’m an assertive, to the point, sarcastic, blunt personality. I learned at an early age that really, the only person who is going to look out for yourself is you. But what I can tell you, the tough exterior is all a façade and at the end of the day I have the same issues and insecurities as everyone else.

So. Having said all that……

I thought we were living the dream. Both had recently gotten new jobs that we enjoyed, were in the process of buying our forever home (which was also my childhood home), both were getting into shape and had shared hobbies we enjoyed. In short, I thought we were the best we had ever been.

Apparently I was wrong. Way wrong.

In August, I put my husband on a plane to go visit his family for a long overdue family reunion. I stayed behind for many reasons. The first day H was gone, he and I got in a fight about his parents and how they were manipulating him not even an hour into his trip. I admit it, I lost it. I don’t remember if I apologized about the outburst, but we went on with life.

H came back from the trip a completely different person. EVERYONE noticed. Couldn’t figure out what was going on. Anytime I’d ask, he would say he was fine, just stressed from selling our house, upcoming move etc. Finally got him to talk – and then the bombs started dropping left and right.

Bomb #1: H wants to have kids. I’m shocked because we both had wanted to be child free. He stated he wanted children for the past two years. NEVER SAID A THING (spoiler – this will become a theme) – even when I questioned him ever so often about remaining child free. He didn’t want to have conversation with me because he knew I didn’t want children and was afraid of what that would mean for the marriage. As the conversation went on he became more firm in his stance. He would have kids with me (gee, thanks?) but he shouldn’t have to give up his dream of having kids and if I wouldn’t have kids he needed to find someone else who would.

Bomb#2 - He doesn’t want to buy the house we’re under contract for buying. I point out that he was the one who encouraged me to go after my dream, pushed me to see if we could do it, talked me back into it when I was trying to talk myself out of it. Said he realized that, but he didn’t want to buy it – because “it was too far out there” (in the country) and that if it were up to him he’d live in a “condo downtown”. Ohhhhkkkkaaay.

Bomb#3 – H isn’t going to work on these issues, they can’t be overcome. He thinks the marriage is probably over. Fantastic.

We talk over the course of the weekend, agree to table to kid discussion, go to marital counseling, and H agrees to move forward with the purchase of the house – says he really wants to try and give everything his best shot.

A very long story short, two weeks before we were set to close on the house, I had to pull the plug on buying the house because in short, my H became a completely different person. It’s like he snapped. He started screaming at me for everything. Said he woke up and decided that he was going to quit being a people person and stop worrying about what other people thought of him and that was his new attitude and I could either get on board or get out. When he learns that I will cancel the contract on the house, you could’ve knocked him over with a feather. He thanks me for it and out of the blue moves out the next day. Bomb #4. This was three days after he sat and held me while I was crying on the floor, promising me he would never go anywhere and that we were going to work through this.

We go to MC where H basically refuses to talk about why we are there. But that he’s committed to working on the marriage. I talk to him over the weekend – think we have good conversations, are making headway, we go out to dinner, H leads me to believe this is a temporary thing – he only booked his hotel room for two weeks. I’m thinking we’re going to have a cool off period and really dig into this.

Three days later – he tells me he’s lied about his commitment to working on the marriage. He says that he’s checked out, has been checked out for two years, that he resents me because he feels he did everything around the house and he felt like a caretaker and not a husband, that I ruined the relationship between him and his parents and when we got in the fight about his mother while he was out of town, he realized he was “done” with me, and that he didn’t have it in him emotionally to work on the marriage. So Bomb #5-8. I beg and plead at this point – because I had no idea that he felt this way at all. No Indication from him. EVER. Always telling me how good of a wife I was, making plans for the future, showing affection. I am literally GOBSMACKED.
We spend the next three weeks with him alternating between screaming at me for everything (breathing, asking him to go to the doctor to get checked out from a mental health standpoint, asking if he was ok), especially emphasizing his anger at me and him cutting off contact from me. Complete stonewalling in therapy. He holed himself up in a hotel room, not eating, started smoking up a storm, drinking lots off coffee and sleeping too much. When he starts hitting things out of frustration (never in front of me, but on the phone when we were communicating) I started getting extremely alarmed. I worried about him hitting rock bottom or self harming so I call his parents. Who promptly blame the whole thing on me and tell me that if I would just give him space, he could process his feelings and he would calm down. Come to find out they think physical violence and breaking things out of anger is “normal behavior” – so not much help there. H proclaims he's staying in the hotel cut off from everyone until he's "no longer mad at anything."

He comes to our last MC session and announces that he’s going to file for separation and that I should know about it before he does it. Bomb #9. And he’s just so smug while he’s saying it. Like he’s congratulating himself on doing something. I’m just baffled by where everything is coming from and trying to figure out what’s going on. After I’ve calmed down, I go and visit him at the hotel. Tell him I’m not there to plead for our relationship, but that I’m disappointed that he chose not to trust me and tell me his concerns and give us an opportunity to work on them. That while he was congratulating himself on ending his marriage and becoming this new person – he really wasn’t. That he was repeating the same patterns he’s always had with conflict: avoid it. And that he shouldn’t be too smug because even if we didn’t work out – he was going to have the same problems in any relationship. That if he didn’t vocalize his problems/concerns if was going to be right back in the same patterns. He looked visibly shaken at that point and asked if we could go back to therapy or “talk and see how things work out.” I ask why – he had the opportunity for the last month to do that. Why now? He doesn’t have an answer. Come to find out later, he threw that out there because he felt that it was the “right thing to do”. Tell him that he should really consider not making permanent decisions when it’s obvious he’s in such an emotional place.

The next few weeks consists of a roller coaster of up and downs, he doesn’t want to talk, but then wants to take me out for dinner before I leave on a business trip because it would be nice to see me. He spends our anniversary screaming at me – telling me to “shut the *censored* up for once in my life so he can see if he can learn to love me again. He says he wants to start talking “just to see what could come of it” but quickly gets agitated during conversations and ends them and will go dark. Then he comes back – wants to hang out.

We go on two different outings – and he’s just so different. He’s dead behind the eyes, doesn’t have a lot to say, acting nervous, smoking like a chimney (even though he knows I’m allergic to cig smoke). I’m not even on his radar. He’s there, but not there. When I express how upsetting it is to be around him this way, he says “this is his new personality and according to his therapist, I’m (meaning me) going to have to figure out if I like it or not.” I’m starting to side eye both H and H’s IC. Learn that he doesn’t really want to talk or hang out, he feels like he needs to do it because, “it will make me feel better about the situation in the long run.”

Then another cycle of screaming starts again when we have conversations and I get more bombs dropped on me:
Bomb #9 – H’s been unhappy most of our marriage, all we had are bad times.

Bomb #10 – I’ve ruined him emotionally for the rest of his life.

Bomb#11 – Trying to provide emotional support to me during trying times took everything out of him emotionally.

Bomb #12– “I love you, but I will never open my heart up to you again from all the pain you’ve caused me."

Bomb #13 - I'm controlling and manipulative and he's so glad to be away from me and our house....that he now views as a prison.

At this point – I am beyond devastated. When I say that he never mentioned anything, I mean NEVER. No indication. All of our friends and family are floored because from outward appearances he was very happy, very in love, very supportive. Everything one could want in a spouse. Was I a perfect wife, no not at all – but at no point in time was my behavior ever something that would ruin someone. Was our marriage perfect? Not at all – but the way he’s acting you would think it was the worst thing in the world with constant conflicts, etc. It’s been a tough two months – because he literally changed his personality, walked out, left me in a house that was packed up (literally) ready to move and has stonewalled any attempt for me to understand what’s going on. When I ask for him to elaborate he gives me the same answer, “I’m too angry to talk about it.”

I don’t understand how someone can just NOT SAY ANYTHING. And how do you just avoid everything and expect it to change? This man is my heart and soul and it devastates me that he feels I am the cause of every problem he’s had. The lashing out, the nasty things he’s said, it’s all taken a toll. I’m in a dark place – because when you hear everything is bad and you reflect upon it – all you can see is the bad. And it’s getting to the point where I’m questioning everything. Was I the wife he claims I was? Am I hallucinating all the good times? I’ve been so happy for the last 10 years of my life, how could I have missed this?

So, here’s where we’re at:
1.Yes. I’ve read DR. I’m working on 180s though I think I need help defining them. GAL and PMA are much harder. I’ve had the wind taken out of my sails. Multiple times. Each time the wind gets taken out of my sails I’m finding it harder to bounce back.

2.Detaching. Ha. I wish there was a detachment for dummies book ‘cause I would be all over that.

3.There’s no OW/OP/EA. I snooped when he started acting weird. I’ve asked him point blank and he’s said no. And to be honest, with the way he’s acting – I don’t know how he would be able to maintain it.

4.Both our primary care physician and his IC and my IC do not suspect any type of mental illness, although I question that – but I think that’s my bias from my own background. He’s able to function at work, and with other people – so they believe he’s not having a mental breakdown. I/our relationship seems to be a trigger. That’s an awesome feeling. /sarcasm

5. He has NOT filed for legal separation. (We live in a state where you have to be apart for a year before you can file for D, regardless of legal separation)

6.He’s gotten on meds, and upped his dosage and appears to be calming down.

7.His temper is getting better but he’s still having pretty bad outbursts.

8.Our contact has become extremely limited due to the above.

9.We both are in IC.

10.H realizes that he has “lots of issues and needs to work on himself”

11.He is “open to the possibility of reconciliation in the future – but finds it very hard to see a reconciliation and doesn’t want to consider it at this point right now.” I question if this is him blowing smoke – but I have no way of knowing.

12.I realize that this blows. A lot.
Posted By: Cristy Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/24/14 06:55 PM
Hi,

I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. You mentioned needing help defining your 180s & one of our coaches can do that and much more. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Posted By: JohnJC Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 12:02 AM
HI, Calibri. I'm sorry that your circumstance brought you here, but I can say that you are in the right place. There are some folks here who are very knowledgeable, and they may help you with some of the specifics in DB.

I can say that something I learned, when dealing with a walk away spouse, they will insist on blaming you for everything that is wrong in the marriage and in their lives. I was blind sided and hurt by this behavior in my wife, and it sounds as if your husband is doing much the same. Detaching is hard....very hard, but you can not try to make logic out of something that is simply not logical. And WAS' are not, but any definition, logical.

I get the 'wind out of your sails' syndrome that you mentioned. It seemed that after my wife left she continiously found ways to cut down any confidence I may have been trying to gather. I'm not sufe if it was intentional, but it sure felt that way at times.

I have the hardest time with detaching too. It's hard, and I am not very good at it. But I have found that the little bit I have been able t detach has made me less defensive and feel just a little bit better. Its an important skill, and necessary to your survival and potential reconciliation.

I know this is hard. Any one here who replies to you knows the same. Take heart in that you are not alone...we're all in the same boat, pretty much, and there is much wisdom to be gleaned here.

God luck and best wishes to you.
Posted By: NH115 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 12:52 AM
Calibri

Sorry you're in this mess, but you have come to the right place. Listen to the vets on here (I'm not one of them, by a long shot). This forum has been a godsend to me.

My WAW has criticized (in no particular order)

That I read books too much

That I spend too much time in the bathroom and do it to get away from her.

That I play golf (The last round I played was in 2012)

Depending on her state of mind, she tells me that I ruined her life, and the 19 years of our marriage have been a lie (can't really pin her down why)

She brought up things I supposedly did that I don't even remember. I've always been up front about owning my mistakes, but it really helps if I can remember the mistake in the first place. I certainly can't count on HER recollection.

She told me about something wrong I said to her a year ago. I did say it, and I regretted it. Problem is, it was over 4 years ago. She often can't even details right when she does find things to criticize. When challenged, her answer was always "What difference does it make?" My answer was always "If you can't even get the timing right, how good is your memory really?"

I'm surprised she hasn't criticized the size of my ears yet, but our sitch is still ongoing.

My point is, unless there has been really serious marital issues like infidelity or abuse on the part of the LBS, a WAS is mentally ill in a way. Maybe not in a way that can be clinically diagnosed, but their perception of reality is really screwed up. They are lost and hurting and scared. Always remember that.

It is vital to your detaching and to your sanity to believe almost nothing they say. It's in the 37 rules. Once you're able to do that, you can weather their storms much easier, and succeed at the all-important detachment.

I'm following your thread with great interest. Grace and peace to you.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 01:11 AM
Welcome and awesome details in your sitch. It sounds similar to mine.

My mother is an Undiagnosed borderline, abused us as kids, I lived in foster care, blah, blah, blah. My H's family is involved in the film industry so = narcissists. Lovely.

I'm a tough b!tch, too. After a few months of introspection and DB, a lot of that is a defense mechanism and it's not how I want to be any more. Do you?

This is tough, I'll tell ya. I see some positives in your situation, as painful as it is, there's hope.

But first, YOU. That's where this process begins and ends, with YOU. IT TOOK ME TOO LONG TO FIGURE THAT OUT. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE.

Take a breath, honor what you've been through to this point.

He has stuff to work on and so do you.

You can't fix him, help him on his journey, guide him, suggest books, even walk beside him. His journey is his.

And yours is yours. Find a blank book, literally, and start writing in it. Your journey truly begins right now.

As a very wise vet has told me, put your marriage safely in a box and put that box on a shelf. There's nothing you can do on it right this minute so put it safely away. It has worked for me, so I can see myself more clearly.

Who I am. What I value. That I am valuable. Who I want to be. With or without my H.

You.

That's where it begins.
Posted By: gan Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 09:57 AM
Welcome Calibri. Sounds like the last few months have been a real shocker. I'm so sorry. I can see some similarities in our sitches, particularly the avoidance behavior your describe in your H. I stopped short of telling my H that he needs to face this or else he'll carry it into future Rs - but boy do I think it all the time! Reading your post brings back memories of feeling like things were just spinning out of control so quickly early on. It is a really tough time. Know that it will get better. There will be ups and downs but it will get better.

As everyone has said, the focus right now is YOU. Breathe, pamper yourself, take up yoga, do what ever it takes to help you fell better about YOU. Above all, be kind to yourself and be willing to roll with things that are not in your control.
Hi John,

Thank you for the welcome -- I was a little nervous posting, because I didn't know if I would get responses - but I'm already thankful for the support I've received in a little under 24 hours.

Some of the things he's angry at -- has merit. Things I'm like, "ok, I can see this, let's work on it." Other things -- not so much. I sometimes feel like he's just grasping at straws to justify his change in behavior.

Re: wind out of the sails. It seems like every time I got my feet under me or we were making "progress" it all fell apart and fell back to square one. There's only so much one can take -- which is why when H started (what appeared to be) steps towards progress, I suggested we go talk about it in front of a third party instead of ourselves. Because I don't have it in me to be back on my bathroom floor again...bawling my eyes out. Although I've found the bathmat to be most comfy.

Thank you for your advice and for your welcome. It's made me feel hopeful, at least for myself.
Hi Rzrback -

Thank you for the welcome. I appreciate it.

I'm having a hard time with the idea that my WAH is lost, hurting and scared. REALLY hard time with it. He got to walk away, unload 31 years of childhood/adult issues onto me. He left me behind to deal with the legal ramifications of backing out of a house purchase two weeks before it closed. He left me to unpack a house, to take care of the animals and everything that comes with every day life. And what does he do? He sits in a hotel room (paid for by his parents), goes to work, goes to therapy and become increasingly angry at me.

Yes, I realize that I am angry. Very angry. Because all I can see is my side. And I chalk that up to the nightmare that I've been living. Logically, I can understand that he is going through some serious issues to do what he's doing. I get that, I truly do. But emotionally, I'm pissed. And hurt. Really, really hurt.

And it's a tough thing to stomach.

Trying to detach. I re-read the 37 rules daily. Here's hoping that serenity and understanding comes sooner, rather than later.

Again, thank you for the welcome -- and I'm sure the size of your ears are just fine. :-D
Posted By: Little Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 02:48 PM
I'm sure you're a million emotions, right now. Some legitimate, some conflicting. It's all normal, and why detaching and focusing on yourself is so important. smile
Ss,

Being a tough b*tch is a defense mechanism. I realized that a while back. Honestly, it's exhausting. I'm exhausted from it. Do I want to be a doormat? No. But there's a probably a better way to stand up for oneself without extending a middle finger with it. HA.

I'm glad you see some positives. Right now, I'm so deep in the forest I can't see the trees.

His journey scares me. Alot. Because it's going to be a long one. I know it's a journey he needs to take. But I'm afraid that his journey will be too hard for him and he won't do it. Historically, he doesn't do hard things. Avoids them at all costs. Probably being married to me was the first hard thing he's stuck with and well.....look where we are. I don't know if he will do the work to get where he needs to be. To be healthy, to be happy, to take ownership of his life and not blame others for his problems. And if he won't do that journey, he certainly won't work on our marriage. But truth be told, he could take the journey, and still not work on our marriage.

I've started writing but I've noticed that the themes revolve around H. What's going on with H. How could H not say anything. Why is H doing this?

H, H, H.

You're right. I need to work on me. And start my journey.

I'm scared to put my marriage in the box. To me, that means I'm not working on it. But, working on me will indirectly work on the marriage. And working on me is all I can do at this point. Still scary to tuck it away.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 03:28 PM
Welcome and so sorry that you find yourself here. I second what others commented before that listening to the vets is a great way to get insight and advice that can help you. I see a few similarities in my situation and feel for you and the extreme emotional roller coaster that you seem to be subjected to. I am relatively new to the boards and I find hope, inspiration and wisdom in reading what everyone else is going through. Hang in there!
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 03:31 PM
Hi Calibri...I am new here too, and you came to the right place, sometimes it's the only comfort to my heart.
I am learning to detach, to love myself again, to let people control their own issues and try to do the best to control mine.
I am very angry at my H right now, like you, I was left with 3 kids to take care after, bills to pay, appointments, the whole thing on me. H move out and even took a vacation w/OW. Somehow, with help and support from friends and this board, I have been giving more value to myself and yes I can do the heavy lift right now. It hurts, and hurts a little more every minute, that the person you love is saying that it's all your fault that they are unhappy.
Hang in there, every day give yourself a chance to look at something positive and slowly things will feel a little easier.
I find the best in here is the fact that you start giving much value, respect and finding the person you really are. It's amazing how we become someone else during a R, and finding who you truly are is difficult... but not impossible.
Take good care of yourself and start little by little to built that confidence that you are worth.
Be patient... be kind to you... and good luck!
Pink
Posted By: NH115 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/25/14 03:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Calibri
Hi Rzrback -

Thank you for the welcome. I appreciate it.

I'm having a hard time with the idea that my WAH is lost, hurting and scared. REALLY hard time with it. He got to walk away, unload 31 years of childhood/adult issues onto me. He left me behind to deal with the legal ramifications of backing out of a house purchase two weeks before it closed. He left me to unpack a house, to take care of the animals and everything that comes with every day life. And what does he do? He sits in a hotel room (paid for by his parents), goes to work, goes to therapy and become increasingly angry at me.

Yes, I realize that I am angry. Very angry. Because all I can see is my side. And I chalk that up to the nightmare that I've been living. Logically, I can understand that he is going through some serious issues to do what he's doing. I get that, I truly do. But emotionally, I'm pissed. And hurt. Really, really hurt.

And it's a tough thing to stomach.

Trying to detach. I re-read the 37 rules daily. Here's hoping that serenity and understanding comes sooner, rather than later.

Again, thank you for the welcome -- and I'm sure the size of your ears are just fine. :-D


It IS a hard thing to stomach, and I know right now they just look possessed and evil. Their fear, confusion, and not just a little self-loathing makes them lash out in cruel ways. I had the privilege of hearing my previously loving wife of 19 years screaming that she hated me and I ruined her life. She screamed at me that I was too weak for her and she needed a stronger man. She screamed at me that she wanted to f*** the OM. This was just a few days ago. She has never spoken to me that way ever in two decades. This weekend she was almost her old self and was picking out colors to paint the accent wall in our bedroom. Roller coaster is not a strong enough image in my opinion.

Detachment helped me to weather this and see it for what it was...the verbal spewing of a lost, terrifed, frightened and not just a little victim-y person. The ability to detach helped me set clear, firm, but loving boundaries about what I will or will not accept out of her. Detachment has helped me see (and project to her) that she is on her own journey. She'll either come down on the side of me or she won't. If she does I will be incredibly happy. If she doesn't, I'll go find a woman who's worth my time. Detachment is for YOU. To save your sanity and help you run this gauntlet with a clear sense of self and a clear view of them.

It is HARD to detach when you love the person so much. When she's not cruel, I want so desperately to run to her, hold her, and make her feel better. The problem is, you can't make them feel better, and it'll likely backfire because you're demonstrating your own neediness when you try to fix them. Neediness on your part will push them further. My wife can tell that I've detached...she even said the word "detached" last night...and then she tried to hold my hand for the first time in a week.

Detachment is a journey, and you will stumble along the way, I haven't perfected it, and it's been two months. Just pick yourself up, slap your forehead (not too hard, now), and drive on. Keep posting! This forum has been a godsend.

And yes, my ears are a hazard in strong winds, but I've never gotten grief for them :-)
Hi Ganb8te,

I don't know what it is about avoidance. I fail to see how hard it is to say, "that hurt my feelings - could you not do it again?" But maybe that's something I need to work on.

I don't know if I did the right thing by telling H to face it or else he'll carry it on into future Rs. That's just my personality -- to the point. I see it. Everyone else sees it. You can't just avoid an issue that you have and think it'll be better with the next person. Especially when the issue has manifested with your parents. Your past employers. Your past relationships. Your wife. Maybe its too demanding. Maybe it was controlling. Maybe I just need to STFU. Lots of unknowns. Lots of maybes.

Trying to take care of myself. Getting sleep - finally. Trying to do things that make me happy. Trying to breathe.

Thank you for the welcome!
Hi Pink-

Thank you for the welcome. I'm going to IC tonight, and I think I'm going to change the direction of therapy from "why is this happening to me?" to "who did I become in the relationship and is that who I am?" I know some of the answers, but I think there's alot of digging to be done.

The other day at a work function, my boss challenged us to say something good that had happened to them in the previous week. It was kind of eye opening to me that all I had was a) I've gotten dressed and made it to work every day and b)I haven't gotten legal paperwork filed against me.

Thank you for giving me ideas on how to work on things.
Rough day today - a friend of mine died last night - so have a funeral to attend this weekend. Not the way I wanted to GAL, but hey - it's out of the house. Notified H and asked if he would go to the funeral. He initially said yes, but I don't know if he will or not. Regardless, it's not about him, but honoring my friend and supporting the family.

Thanksgiving. Blech. Everyone's talking holiday plans at work. It's weird, for the first time in 10 years, I don't have the anxiety of going to IL's house for the holidays, and strangely, I miss it. Not the anxiety - but the ritual of going, I suppose. Have NO idea what that means. Will spend a low key day with my family. Lots of food, and Netflix I'm sure. It will be sad. Last year was the first holiday without my grandfather (as he had passed away). This year is the first holiday without H there. Not sure how to process it -- except to get through it.

No idea what H plans on doing for Thanksgiving. We haven't exchanged more than one word text messages since Thursday due to him being in a foul mood. He's decided to distance himself from me when his moods are less than pleasant because he, "has taken enough of his anger out of me and doesn't want to do that to me anymore." While I consider that progress, I also wonder if he's going to use that as an excuse to limit conversations in the future because he doesn't want to have them. Guess we will have to see how it plays out.

IC tonight where I plan on talking about last week's ridiculous (in my opinion) therapy session with H and his IC. My frustration with H's IC (I'll touch more on that later) but hope to change the tone in my IC from "why me" to positive goals. Talking about detaching, boundaries, 180's, etc.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/26/14 12:10 AM
Calibri, there's so much I want to say in response to your past few posts but I'm headed out to take D to karate and then dinner, bath and editing, whew!

I just want you to know I'm reading and thinking about you. There are just a few points I want to make that helped get me ME focused and less H focused, and that has made all the difference.

Hang in there.

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. No expectations about H going to the funeral. You have a friend to honor, you don't need him there to do that.

Until later,
Ss
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/26/14 12:36 AM
Ok, turns out I have a few minutes. Yay!

Remember, I'm NOT a vet!!

Quote:
I don't know if I did the right thing by telling H to face it or else he'll carry it on into future Rs. That's just my personality -- to the point. I see it. Everyone else sees it. You can't just avoid an issue that you have and think it'll be better with the next person. Especially when the issue has manifested with your parents. Your past employers. Your past relationships. Your wife. Maybe its too demanding. Maybe it was controlling. Maybe I just need to STFU. Lots of unknowns. Lots of maybes.


Wow, we're a lot alike, Calibri! I did this too. Hey, H, by the way, you should totally work on stuff because it'll help you down the road and you don't want to take ugly, heavy baggage into future relationships so you should totally work on it.

Yeah. You're not who he wants to hear that from.

You're right. And you know it but in this case, STFU is best. Any advice, direction, suggestions you give him... that's an attempt at control. It's part of our b!tchy-ness" and something we do to protect OURSELVES. Yes, you read that right.

You're not actually helping him with that suggestion. Nope. You're actually pushing him away. Unknowingly and unintentionally, yes, but that's what you're doing.

Breathe.

It helped me to have a list of things I was working on and then a SEPARATE list of things I was working on NOT doing. "STFU" is at the very top of my "not to do" list. It's HARD. Incredibly hard but I'll admit, it gets easier.

No matter how wise, insightful or TRUE your advice may be, he doesn't want to hear it from you.

Quote:
I'm going to IC tonight, and I think I'm going to change the direction of therapy from "why is this happening to me?" to "who did I become in the relationship and is that who I am?" I know some of the answers, but I think there's alot of digging to be done.


This is GREAT and really encouraging that you're turning the perspective so early in your sitch. Hang on to that.

From day 1 of after BD I was determined to NOT feel like this was happening TO ME because I wanted to feel in control. After a lot of ups and downs and major backslides I realized I needed to rightfully mourn and wallow for a minute.

Given my childhood and all I've been through in life I have always been strong and determined and nothing held me back, got in my way or victimized me. But I needed the time to crash, wallow and hit the very bottom of the bottom. If you read my sitch, it involved my vacuum and it was VERY tough.

I got through it though and I wouldn't be where I am now without that time on the floor with my vacuum. I just wouldn't.

Ask yourself if you need time to mourn first. I mean, REAL time to mourn. Get it all out. Vent big time. I needed it. I did it on paper, typing on here and verbally...

and eventually I realized that I came around to talking about changes I wanted to make in myself. Not him. Me. It all circles around to YOU. But it's a process. YOu can't force that. You have to let it happen naturally. It takes patience. Patience I'm not known for but I found it.

Quote:
Trying to take care of myself. Getting sleep - finally. Trying to do things that make me happy. Trying to breathe.


GOOD! You have to do this. HAVE to. Ever meditated before? It has helped me. I still struggle with it but it's a metaphor for life and who doesn't struggle with life sometimes? wink

Holidays are tough. There's no denying it. They just are. Instead of seeing this holiday as the first one without H why not start a new tradition in honor of your grandfather. Yes, H isn't there. Yes, things are a little nuts right now but YOU get to define what this holiday is like for YOU. There's great freedom in that.

Quote:
IC tonight where I plan on talking about last week's ridiculous (in my opinion) therapy session with H and his IC.


I'm not sure what is up with H's IC but it's out of your control. Completely. I struggled with this A LOT, too. I was so worried that H would find someone who was super pro divorce and tell him to grow a pair and stay out and blah, blah, blah.

It's not for you to choose or to analyze. He picked his IC. You picked yours. YOu can only work on you in your way.

His choices are his choices. Yours are yours. In the end, he may not do the work. That's something I am super concerned about with my H, too. He can go through the motions but the REAL work? "It's doubtful he can handle it", is what my condescending mind tells me but you know what? Maybe he is doing the work. Maybe he's not. Right now it doesn't matter.

You are. YOu're doing the work. You.

Focus on you.

Let us know how your YOU focused IC session went tonight.

(((hugs)))

Wow, we're a lot alike, Calibri! I did this too. Hey, H, by the way, you should totally work on stuff because it'll help you down the road and you don't want to take ugly, heavy baggage into future relationships so you should totally work on it.

Lol, I did that too. Great move! NOT.

Btw, wrt to IC... My IC was my MC before H stopped coming, and he told me while my H was still coming to MC and we both still said we wanted the M that my H had fallen out of love with me as though he had turned gay and that I needed to just go out and find myself a new man because I was really attractive and wouldn't have any trouble doing that. H was sitting right next to me.

C's are human and have their own thoughts, biases, and goals. Speech is an imprecise thing. We all are biased towards hearing what we want or expect to hear and so even if you and your H we're seeing the same IC he would likely take away different ideas from you. It's part of detaching, validating, and honoring his individuality, recognizing the truth in that.

What are you thankful for? smile
Ss -

I've been suggesting/begging/talking/pleading for H to go to IC for YEARS to deal with the issues of his childhood. He would go, to appease me, but never stuck with it. I could see it, brewing under the surface. I could see it creeping steadily into his work, our marriage. For the last year, his mother has (seemingly) been on the wagon, stable, trying to get it together. I urged H to start to talk to his parents, because it seemed like an opportune time. I knew that if he didn't get it out, it was going to blow up. I just never imagined it was going to blow up on me. At the time I thought I was being helpful. Trying to give him support and courage to deal with the difficult stuff. I know differently now. Had I known what I was doing was controlling/manipulating, I would've stayed the hell out of it. Except, I couldn't. Because it was effecting my life. The man I love. And I wanted to be his advocate -- because he wasn't advocating for himself. I didn't want him to be a victim to his parents anymore. I didn't want him to be a victim of a s*itty childhood. I wanted him to rise above it. To be victorious. To free himself of the chains that binded him to the toxic situation.

But the thing is, I wanted that. And while I think there was/is a part of him that wanted some of that, he didn't want to make that journey.

......I feel, sometimes, that by trying to make him better - that I made him worse. And I feel like a s*itty person. At least right now.

I've been working on my lists of what to do and what not to do. Plan on sharing towards the end of the week.


As for mourning, I'm still mourning -- but I'm the type of person who wants a plan. I like control (jesus, maybe H was right about being controlling). Because over the years with all the crappy things that have happened to me, I want to control the things in my life. My eff'd up thinking: If I can control it - then nothing bad will happen to me again. Ha. Last year I went to grief counseling because my grandfather committed suicide. Grief counseling, pissed me off, because I couldn't control how I was navigating the steps of grief. I felt stuck. I felt like I wasn't "grieving" properly. I expressed my irritation and not being able to move forward. And as I'm typing this now....I realize I'm doing the same thing with mourning this separation.

I came pretty close to rock bottom two weeks ago. It scared the crap out of me. I called my docs, got meds, and I'm seeing improvements. Where I was two weeks ago is not somewhere I want to be again.

I don't want to be a victim. Never have. I've survived every kind of abuse possible. I've survived a mentally unstable father who has tried to harm me. I've survived everything thrown at me (illness, poverty, loved ones dying, loved ones having cancer, becoming a legal guardian to an elderly relative, suicide). I always pulled myself up by my bootstraps and said "you will not be defined by this. You will not. I survived all of that...but my H leaving me? The thought of not being married to him - THAT is the thing that brings me to my knees.

--
I feel like I'm all over the place here.

--
Will post little bit later about H's IC session (I was there. It was lackluster!) and last nights IC.

Thank you for checking in. It's really pushing me to think about the bigger picture.
Little -

I'm everywhere. Especially today.

How did you detach?

Got any advice?
Maybell......

I just can't even with the thing you IC said. How does one even respond to that?

I'm going to post about the H's IC session that I attended last week a little later. My IC worked with me on helping decode it. And what you're saying makes sense. I went in with expectations, and looking back, I probably heard what I expected to hear. H may hear it differently.

FWIW, I have been validating H when we text. He seems to be responding to it.

What am I thankful for?
1. My family and close friends who have so patiently listened to me and taken care of me since this started.
2. A short work week
3. A flexible work schedule (was up last night for awhile with a sick dog - got into work suuuuper late)
4. My dogs, because without having the responsibility of taking care of them - I don't know if I would've gotten out of bed in the last two months.
5. That even though we are apart, my husband is safe and taking the steps to hopefully become happy. He deserves that.
6. Ironically, the ability to really have the opportunity to look at myself. I thought I had myself figured out. I was wrong. Way wrong.
---

What are you thankful for Maybell?

Journaling/Update

H’s IC last week: I ended up going to H’s IC appointment last week. The reason we were there, allegedly, communication. H had come to the house the week before, I had gotten emotional about our stitch and was asking what we/I could do to help get us some progress. H announced that he wanted to start coming around the house once a week to help with things because, “maintaining the place was too much for one person”, he wanted to start talking on the phone more and perhaps start doing something together once a week. Told me that his therapist was “on board” with the idea. As he’s done this before and it’s backfired pretty immediately, I suggested that before we committed to that we talk to a third party to see how that would work/if it was in our best interests. I also found it questionable that the therapist would suggest increased contact, specifically when H is having a hard time controlling his temper/verbal spew. Asked him if he had told his IC about how angry he was, he hadn’t.

H set up the appointment with his IC. I wasn’t immediately comfortable with the setup, so H encouraged me to reach out to his therapist and discuss my concerns. My primary concerns being: safety and expectations of the session. In regards to safety, do I feel that my H would hurt me on purpose? No, not at all. But, as angry as he’s getting, and so rapidly – I had concerns about the therapist maintaining control of the situation, especially seeing as H hadn’t told him how angry he had been getting. Expectations of the situation: H wanted to talk about communication, I wanted to make sure I wasn’t going in and being ambushed. Having been in previous therapy sessions before with H (prior to MC) where the therapist at the time ambushed me, I wanted to make sure there wasn’t a hidden agenda (ie: I’m trying to control the situation for my comfort).

I talked to H’s IC, and I’m not impressed. At all. He came off as very condescending and rude. He questioned my dedication to H and if my fears of H’s anger were actually valid saying, “women who are fearful of their spouses don’t pursue relationships, much less agree to be in the same room.” He then went on to insinuate that if I was “truly concerned” about H’s anger that I would’ve reached out to someone and tried to get him help. And that is where, I politely lost it. I explained to therapist that I had called him and left him a VM regarding H’s sudden personality change and anger. He never called me back (he confirmed that was correct). I reached out to our MC at the time. Our MC never called me back. I spoke to the on call emergency MC who expressed concern over his behavior at the time and suggested that I get his family and or a doctor involved. As the doctor can’t do anything without H coming in himself, I called his parents. And his parents blamed everything on me. So at that point, I had pretty much exhausted my options short of getting him involuntarily committed (which wasn’t even a viable option or one I was even considering, but can happen in our state). The therapist’s response? “You didn’t call *random mobile crisis center that I’ve never heard of* so, you TRULY didn’t use all of your options. I also explained that while I was concerned for H’s anger and his safety, that I had been exposed to lots of things in life and that I had seen what the power of medication, therapy and time could do, so I wasn’t the “fearful woman” he was portraying me as. He seemed kind of taken aback, but encouraged me to come to the session so I could “learn and hear all about H’s progress.”

FWIW, I did tell H about the conversation and he was pretty taken aback and appalled. Said he would’ve never expected that kind of reaction from IC and would never have suggested I talk to him or come in if IC was going to act that way. Said it was up to me if I wanted to come to the session, he would understand if I didn’t want to.

I put on my big girl panties and went. And continued to not be impressed with the IC in person. He still came off as rude and condescending. He made a big deal about how the session was not MC. Got it. He basically read me bullet points from H’s session.

Session 1: Getting to know you

Session 2: H thinks that relationship is “really bad”. IC tells me that he told H that he could end the relationship at any time if he wanted to. And that sometimes, r’s can’t be fixed because they’ve run their course. IC pauses to say that he’s “pro marriage and thinks marriages should be saved” but sometimes we “have to accept that not everything can be saved and learn to live with the disappointment of things not working out.”

Session 3: Talked about H’s childhood background.
So on and so forth. IC told me things I already knew. IC continues to go on that we “could” save our marriage, but that I would have to change, H would have to change and the R would have to change but that it only took one person to want out then that was it.

After all of this, I finally get a chance to say something, and I ask how does one expect the m/spouse to change if they don’t say anything (alluding to H not saying ANYTHING). And how does one work on this, when one party refuses to talk because of their anger, or their mood, or anything else. Because at this point H hasn’t said ANYTHING during the session. I pointed out that H has a history of not saying anything about his feelings, but wanting people to do all the work for him so that he wouldn’t have to do the hard stuff (to his credit, H nodded) and the IC basically ignored this and said that we shouldn’t talk without a third party until we can both learn not be emotional. There’s our communication advice.

He then told me that I could leave, that he wanted to spend the rest of the time with H.

To his credit, H texted me later in the afternoon, thanked me for coming and told me he wasn’t happy with how the session went. At least we agree on something.
---
My IC last night:

I talked about the session with H’s IC. I expressed concern that it felt like my H’s IC was pushing H towards D/ending the R based on what he said. Express concern that H might be swayed by the ending r talk, as H always looks to other people for guidance/decision making. Case in point, last week when talking about the R (I know, bad DB) I asked H if he felt the R was over. He said he didn’t know, because he hadn’t talked to his IC about that yet. I realize this is mind reading, I realize it’s a big what if, but it’s also scary to me that H could be so easily influenced. My IC validated my concerns but felt what H’s IC was doing was pushing H to realize that there were options, but that H had to choose what he was going to commit to. She knows H’s IC IRL and is a little taken aback and my opinion of him – but wonders if he’s therapeutically trying to push buttons to get a reaction out of either one of us. She also thinks the reading of the bullet points was to convey to me, without upsetting H, how slow the process is – and how long it’s going to take. They’re on session 6? Now and still haven’t talked about why H is angry with me. She felt that he was doing his best to convey the longevity and to see if I had the patience to deal with it.

She was thrilled to hear that I wanted to start focusing on me, and less on why is this happening to me. I mentioned a few of the things that I wanted to work on: 180s, PMA, etc. I also want to work on taking a hard look at the person I was/am in the marriage. Because apparently she’s not awesome. She said, I’m sure there are things that you did in the marriage as a result of your H’s actions. And immediately, I had several things come to mind. So obviously there’s work there to do.
Journaling:

Today is going to be much harder than I thought. Checked FB this am and first post was my SIL posting on how thankful she was to wake up next to her H (my H 's brother) and fur babies and spend time with her family. Both inlaws had already liked her status. Instant decision to stay off FB for the day. Perhaps the whole weekend.

H is sleeping in a hotel room literally three miles away. Might as well be 3,000. He's struggling right now, meds don't seem to be working and he's getting bad side effects. Not sleeping. All I want to do is go over there and curl up in bed with him and tell him that it will be ok. That we are going to be ok.

But I don't know that. And I can't do that. Instead I sent him a text saying that I hoped he was able to get sleep and that he had safe travels wherever the holidays may take him.

When this all started, I foolishly thought we'd have this sorted out by the holidays. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

I think I'm going to opt to cry. Take a nap, and go to my parents house where I will probably cry some more but will do my best to enjoy the day.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/28/14 04:33 AM
I totally thought this all would be sorted by the holidays, too.

There's no denying it, the holidays suck right now but I'm trying to make the best of them. It's not easy but I'm doing the very best I can.

One foot in front of the other. It won't always suck this badly. Ugh
Posted By: Jefe Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/28/14 04:44 AM
Count me in here too. I was SURE we would be reconciled by Halloween at worst by Today.

Hang in there guys.
Thanksgiving. Yeah.

My Thanksgiving with my family was fine. Good food, laughs, etc.

Thanksgiving regarding my H?

No, not so much.

Discovered H planned to spend the holiday in his hotel room, sleeping. Because his meds are not working for him. I suggested he come to my parents house for food. He didn't want to do that. Fair enough. I told him I would be out of our house all day and had tons of food there, and to help himself. He wasn't sure about that. He just wanted to sleep. He sounded awful. Finally, during the middle of the day I sent him a text and asked if I could bring him a plate of food. He was agreeable to that.

Took him a plate of food later in the evening. If he isn't at rock bottom he's close to it. I remained up beat and chatty, blah blah. And basically had to put him to bed because he was zoning in and out. He gave me a hug to thank me for the food but when I tried to give another one he freaked out. Got himself worked up, started blaming everything on the meds and then went into a full blown anger meltdown. He couldn't articulate what set him off. He couldn't articulate what he was angry at. He was just filled with uncontrollable anger at the drop off the hat.

This is much more than me. But yet, I can't help but feel it's my fault and the anger is about me - because he only has these meltdowns around me. His parents, his therapist, etc aren't taking me seriously when I tell them about the seriousness of the anger because I'm the only one who sees it.

It breaks my heart, shatters it to the core to see my beautiful, vibrant, funny husband reduced to this shell of a person. To be living in a hotel room going on three months. To fighting whatever it is his fighting on his own.

He plans on talking to the doctor Monday for a med adjustment and he has a therapist appointment Monday as well. I'm sure this will just provide more fodder for the therapist about why we shouldn't communicate. Whatever.

------
I don't know if our marriage is going to be able to survive this. I want so desperately for it to, but I can't DB against anger, and personal demons and depression. Can I?

So, Ss is right, the marriage is going to have to go in the box on the shelf.
And on a completely b*tchy self serving rant:

I am so ANGRY and disappointed with H's parents. They live 2.5 hours away and had NO plans yesterday. They couldn't even be bothered to come see their son, who is obviously having a rough time, on a holiday. They talked to him on the phone, and unless H put on a grand show, they should've been able to tell that he was in bad shape just from the tone of his voice. Some red flags should've been raised when he expressed that he was just going to sequester himself away and sleep all day. His parents spent the day posting on FB and enjoying the light snow they got. Happy and warm without a clue. Because they live in denial land. Our son doesn't have problems, it's all his wife.

And me? I go out to make sure he's alive and that he's at least fed and take care of him in his darkest time, and I get to witness the come apart. And get the blame for it all. And hell, maybe it is all my fault but I'm not abandoning my H in his time of need. Where the f*ck were they at? And really where the f*ck have they been his whole life?

It must be so nice to live in lala land where everything's perfect and everyone else is to blame.
Advice? Anyone?

H wants to go to the funeral with me tomorrow. To support me and our friend.

He says he's going, I say we should talk about it.

He complained that I'm controlling. So I'm treading lightly here.

But I don't think in light of how the last 24 hours has been that he should go. There will be lots of emotions, he's not stable with his meds, I might accidentally breathe/touch him/cry and god forbid set him off into an angry state. The last thing I need is for him to have an angry scene at a funeral.

I'd much rather he not go and have to make excuses as to why he's not there than to risk a blow up.

Should I just keep my mouth shut and hope for the best and trust that he can keep his composure in a room full of people? Or put my foot down and ask him not to go?
Posted By: Wonka Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/29/14 04:46 PM
Calibri,

I agree that it was a controlling statement. I'd say you allow H to accompany you to the funeral. However, you might want to communicate your concerns to H so he's aware of them and hopefully will be able to step up at the funeral by holding himself together.

Leave it at that. It is is choice on how he wants to behave at the funeral.
Wonka,

Expressed my concerns and he got pissed off and decided he shouldn't go because he couldn't control his anger about the conversation.

Probably for the best.
Posted By: Elsa Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 11/30/14 11:46 PM
I'd say so, Calibri. I'm sorry that he won't be able to comfort you right now.
Journalling

Emotionally drained from this weekend. Still upset from seeing H at Thanksgiving. He really, really needs help with his anger. No one believes me with how angry he gets, because I'm the only one who sees it/has it directed at me. Was hoping that it would show at H 's IC session I attended last week, but later learned H's IC coached him on not showing his temper to make it a "safe and respectful" environment. General consensus is to leave him alone and he will calm down. However, 17 years of pent up anger doesn't just go away all on its own. And when a simple conversation triggers it? It's not like I'm poking the bear on purpose. I'm responding to a text message.

In addition, dropped a nice chunk of change at the vet office on Friday. Youngest dog suddenly had serious aggression issues towards our other dog Thursday and Friday. Vet wanted to know if there had been any changes in the household. Told her H had unexpectedly moved out and he was "the person" for the dog showing aggression. She said dog viewed H as alpha, and he's no longer there, dog is picking up on my weakened emotional role and trying to assert himself as alpha over everything. So, blood work for everyone, and doggie boot camp, restructuring the. Household, etc to try and stop this.

Feel like a failure not only as a wife but as a pet mom.

Sent H a text about the situation. Told him exactly what the vet said. H asked how he could help with the dogs. Took everything I had not to say, "fix your [censored], so we can fix our [censored] and come home."

Funeral on Saturday where I unexpectedly had to speak. Pulled something together quickly and it was well received. H did not go. I spent a fair amount of time at the wake afterwards evading questions about where H was, and hearing how beautiful our wedding was, how great my H is because "he's just so calm and happy all the time." people wanting us to visit them. And people complementing me on my weight loss (stepped on scale at moms house on turkey day, horrified to see I've lost 30 pounds in 11 weeks) - saying, "whatever you're doing keep doing - it's certainly agreeing with you."

I smile, and say "oh just a change in diet and lifestyle."

Ugh.

And I need to detach because I know H is having thanksgiving with his family today. Worried about him safely driving the distance due to the side effects of his meds. Worried that his parents are going to encourage him to file and not work on our R, as they believe a majority of the blame falls on me. He values and craves his parents approval. Wonder if I'll get thrown under the buss (even more than I already have with them) for the sake of him obtaining their approval.

Blah.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/01/14 01:17 AM
Hang in there, Calibri. All of this is just part of your journey.

P.s. My in laws think I'm terrible, too. Not fun.
*knock on wood* But it appears the spew seems to have stopped, for now. H hasn’t spewed anything hateful specifically towards me/our relationship in about 3-ish weeks.

He said that the first two months of our stitch, he was “pretty out of control” and that he “said a lot of things that he shouldn’t.” I’ve noticed when I mention what he’s said previously or referenced how I feel about it, he gets upset about it, but more in a regretful way. He’s told me, “I know what I said, I don’t need to be reminded of it” or “I didn’t say that.” Which, unfortunately, he had, and had forgotten in his spew. He has apologized for some of the things that he’s said and he generally apologizes for things that makes me feel bad. However, I don’t see the apologies for things that make me feel bad as an improvement per say, that’s a behavior that he’s always had. A stranger could stub a toe and he would apologize for it.

He is now taking 50% ownership of the marital problems, whereas before it was 100% my problems that drove him away. I’ll take that as progress.

I’ve seen some progress with a 180 over the past few weeks (which I promptly set back this weekend via angry text messaging – hooray!). My 180 has been to not push H to chat, and keep messages short and upbeat. The last week, he had stopped conversing because he was in a bad mood. He has decided to pull back from conversing when in a bad mood or whatnot, because “I’ve already taken enough of my anger out on you, I don’t want to do that anymore.” So anytime I got a message from him saying he didn’t want to chat – I basically said, “I’m sorry to hear that you’re still feeling stressed, I know that must be frustrating. Thanks for letting me know. Have a good night.” I have gotten several thank you messages from H, especially referencing my understanding for not talking and him wanting to assure me that he wasn’t trying to be a d*ck.

So my setback conversation - We had a pretty tense conversation this weekend via text and I got the following messages:

“All I can say is this, you are not a meaningless person, and you’re not a shitty person and I don’t hate you. I’m sorry I’m still where I am. I have a long road ahead of me. But I’m trying to fight to regain some sense of my former self.”

And later:

“I have no idea how to respond. I do care and I do give a [censored]. I apparently just have a hard time expressing it or something. I’m having a hard time articulating myself right now, I’m sorry it comes across as not giving a [censored]. This is all done with a heavy heart. Everything that’s going on this isn’t some [censored] spring break. It’s difficult.”

I’m having a hard time interpreting this. When he left, he completely became a different person. A very angry, hateful, emotionless person. The spew was horrific. I took all of it to heart, which I know I shouldn’t do, but I did. So when I see statements like the ones above, I don’t know what to do with it. I’m still stuck on the, “you ruined my life.” Or the “I will never open my heart to you because of all the pain you caused me.” I saw something in someone else’s thread last night that essentially change your mindframe about the person. To think that the person in your stitch does love you, instead of what is this [censored] doing to me now mindset.

It’s just hard, through all of this to think that my husband might still love me. His actions say otherwise. That this is difficult for him. I think the part about his anger and figuring out who he is, etc so forth is hard for him. But I don’t know if leaving me and possible never coming back is hard for him. He said once that it was harder emotionally to get a divorce then to work on a failing marriage.

In other news:

I’m trying to figure out our communication, especially with our stitch. I’m trying to let H initiate any and all conversations, and for the most part I’m trying to remain up beat, understanding, etc. H has noticed it, as mentioned before, and is appreciative of it. However, I’m having a hard time STFU sometimes and I’ve lashed out a couple of times. I lashed out Friday night. First lash out in about a month or so – which is progress, but still bad BDing.

I have no idea what to do. I feel that I need to be supportive, especially with his IC, his depression, and making sure he’s generally alive. But I don’t know if I should initiate a checking in text every couple of days or so. I feel like I should leave it in H’s hands, but since his new thing is not talking while he’s in anything less than a stellar mood, we may go weeks without speaking. It would be great progress if we could actually have a productive conversation – but that involves…..having a conversation.

Thoughts? Advice?





Of note, I did send a text message later apologizing for lashing out. That I should be an adult and be able to reign in my emotions and I'm not, and apologized again.

He responded with: "I get it, it's ok, we're both having issues there."
Bad, bad mood today.

Bullet points, cause that's how I'm going to roll.

- I feel like a piece of trash that H has thrown away. Like, "oh this serves me no purpose anymore/I don't like it, into the garbage it goes."

-This has brought out all of my childhood insecurities to the surface. Especially with H's possible (probable) depression. I feel exactly like I did my entire childhood, wondering why I wasn't good enough for my mentally ill father to stick around or to be a part of my life. Or to take his meds to be stable. Mentally ill father didn't want to pay child support, and even went so far as to call me around age 12 - to tell me that I was an ungrateful, spoiled punk who was undeserving of his money and he had found himself a "good woman" who showed him the respect he deserved and he was going to support her children -- because they deserved his money and support more.

So now I'm all insecure, again. Questions running though my head: "Why am I not good enough?" "Why does everyone walk away?" "Why Why Why?"

-I am SO, SO angry at H right now. We were supposed to be settled into the house we were going to buy. I had already made pintrest boards for holiday decorating, and remodeling. That dream is gone. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for me to get that property back into our family. That's gone. And so is my H, for right now. Possibly forever.

-Another reason I'm angry at my H right now? Had he shared his feelings, once, JUST ONCE, I would've moved mountains to change our relationship. Because I love the hell out of him. I can't change what I don't know. I feel like I failed a test I didn't know I was taking.

-Trying to think about the relationship from H's perspective. I probably wouldn't come home, either.

-Realizing his mindset, he probably isn't talking to me because he doesn't want to. Because he doesn't want to work on the relationship. So, I feel like I'm some obligation. That's a crappy place to be right now.

Fantastic Tuesday ya'll.

I realize my stitch is unique in the sense that there isn't an A/OP/etc, and the depression/anger factoring into it -- I really could use some support/advice. I feel very lost.
Ok, so I put my big girl panties on and instead of crawling into bed like I wanted to, I went to Crossfit, set a new personal record, slammed some [censored] around and decided a few things.

Goals/GAL/GTFOM
1. take care of myself. I look like death warmed over. Skin looks horrible, I'm dehydrated, my hair is blah. I haven't painted my toe nails in forever. Remedy this.

2. Gain weight. Stat. I've lost 30 pounds, Where I needed to drop like, 5. I use to think this was my goal weight. It's not. While my stomach is nice and flat, I've lost all my curves. I miss my booty. And I can't afford to buy all new clothes.

3. Crossfit - 3x week minimum. I was making amazing progress before BD I've lost all of that strength and progress. I am so pissed and determined to get that back. I'd like to do a competition in 2015. I did my first one in 2014. One month after BD, and two days after H quit MC saying he was done with everything. hardest day of my life, completing that competition. I had a panic attack in the middle of the first workout. I don't want to be defined by that.

4. Start running again (but that's a spring time thing)

5. Try a new recipe each week. I can't survive any longer off of what I'm doing. This will also be a 180.

6. Sort my house out. Clean it. Put things away. I'm so overwhelmed with this and honestly, I haven't been motivated to do it. But I think I will feel better once I'm not strain at the foot high pile of clothes on my dresser. And maybe I will find my black work pants. This is also another 180/ one of H's complaints about me.

7. Start interacting with friends in person. I'm a homebody. I need out of the house.

8. Try to be less of a sarcastic ass. This is a long shot.

9. Read more. Less relationship books (while still important) and add stuff in that I will enjoy. Maybe read the classics since I haven't read much, if any.

10. Watch ALL the period films, sappy/cheesy stuff on Netflix, because H hated it. While he's gone, imma watch what I want.
This hit me tonight. I'm sharing until I can get into my own journal.

“You think because he doesn't love you that you are worthless. You think that because he doesn't want you anymore that he is right -- that his judgement and opinion of you are correct. If he throws you out, then you are garbage. You think he belongs to you because you want to belong to him. Don't. It's a bad word, 'belong.' Especially when you put it with somebody you love. Love shouldn't be like that. Did you ever see the way the clouds love a mountain? They circle all around it; sometimes you can't even see the mountain for the clouds. But you know what? You go up top and what do you see? His head. The clouds never cover the head. His head pokes through, beacuse the clouds let him; they don't wrap him up. They let him keep his head up high, free, with nothing to hide him or bind him. You can't own a human being. You can't lose what you don't own. Suppose you did own him. Could you really love somebody who was absolutely nobody without you? You really want somebody like that? Somebody who falls apart when you walk out the door? You don't, do you? And neither does he. You're turning over your whole life to him. Your whole life, girl. And if it means so little to you that you can just give it away, hand it to him, then why should it mean any more to him? He can't value you more than you value yourself.” - Toni Morrison

---

Could I be any more all over the map emotionally today?
Hey Calibiri,

I've been reading your posts and struggle with advice because I think the situation with your H's depression is a tough one.

That being said, there is a lot going on in your posts. I think right now you should consider taking a step back for a moment. Your post about the 30 lbs of lost weight concerns me. Stop worrying about your H for a week. He should be ok for that long, right? (If you need to contact him out of concern for his safety keep t as brief as possible) Start with that, and during that week focus on your health. Concentrate on getting some nutritious calories in you (tip- right after BD , soup was my best friend- easy to digest and chock full of nutrients). Drink enough water everyday, cut back on coffee if you need to, etc. You sound like a smart lady - and I'm sure you know what to do - but I would make this your immediate focus. It will help you deal with everything else - and yes, get some entertaining reading in the mix!
Thank you for responding Raliced!

I know there's alot going on in my posts. It's alot going on irl. You should see what I don't post. LOL.

The 30 pound weight loss concerned me. I knew I had lost weight, and I thought it was around 15 pounds. Not 30. Which is why this should be a priority -- thank you for reinforcing that.

I also agree with stepping back away from H right now. Until he has his meds sorted out, we aren't going to get anywhere. And truth is, we aren't going to solve anything in the next week so......

Thanks for the perspective. And for the check in.

:-)
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/03/14 04:28 PM
I TOTALLY understand being all over the map emotionally! I do that too. I cry, I laugh, I cry while I laugh and laugh while I cry. It is maddening some days. For me, what works is to stop myself when I start to cry and just pray. I have never been a particularly religious person, but I pray for my family, I pray for myself and my dog, I even occasionally pray for H. It seems to calm me when I am up and down so much. Hang in there!
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/04/14 02:38 PM
Hi Calibri,
It's very hard to deal with all the stuff you need to. I have been learning all the stages of my pain. And, I did start to accept that this is what happen to most human beings, we navigate the pain with different emotions time to time.

I was reading your posts and don't remember reading about your work or his work. If he works, how is he coping with the day by day reality?

And since he is still sorting out his meds, and hopefully he is seeing the right doctor to prescribe them, there is any danger of suicide or just that he will hurt himself in any way?

If you are confident he is not at that point of depression that will harm himself, then you need to step back and make yourself whole. Maybe if you are strong and can manage to show him confidence in your self, maybe he will be leaning to your side in a way to get himself back to who he wants to be.

When reading DB and DR I remember reading that it seems unfair that we need to do the heavy lift right now for the R, and then Michele writes that yes it seems unfair but you are here and you are determined to get the R back on track, so prepare yourself for the hard work.

I see you are trying your best, and you feel crappy time to time, but try do not bit yourself up. None of what you say from your childhood problems are your fault. Someone else did this, you had no control of what people did to you, you may have control now on how do deal with all the pain you carry inside, maybe you want to work with your IC about forgiven the people that hurt you in the past. At first, it feels like betraying yourself, then with time, you feel a giant weight to be lift from your shoulders, you start seeing life in a different way.

I was reading an article that was explaining about some studies on human behavior change and it mention that it is the most difficult thing for human beings to do: LET GO!

We hold on to every emotion and become slaves of our own feelings... maybe you can check with your IC about techniques you can use to Let Go all this pain you carry inside. And, you may have a better chance for H to return. He is already noticing your changes, work on yourself and be the best woman you can be and the one only a fool would leave.

There will be days for tears, but don't beat yourself. Try to see yourself as part of nature... there are sunny days, but once in a while it rains, like the sky needs to cry.

I know you can do it, you are in the right track. It was hard for me at first, but I have been learning to be gentle with myself, and that I don't need to be tough all the time.

LOVE YOURSELF... and everyone else will love you too.

Good Luck...Hugs
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/05/14 06:43 AM
Hey Calibri,

How are you? Hope you are feeling well. Please, take good care after yourself. During this time with emotions all over the place it's very important to understand that you need to sleep and eat properly.

I know it is very hard, I lost 29lbs myself. Sometimes food is the last thing I want to think about, but eat something lite, just to keep you in good health.

You are in my prayers girl, you can do it!
Pink –

Thank you for your post yesterday – it was much needed. I confess, I read it and burst into tears and had to go hide in the bathroom for awhile until I could be non teary at my desk.

I don’t know how H is coping with the day to day reality of his situation. He said that he’s mostly going to work and trying to focus on his work and keep going. His boss knows about what’s going on (due to having to come in late/leave early for therapy appointments). Other than that – I think he goes to work, occasionally works out, and then goes back to his hotel room to do whatever it is he does. I do know I’m the only one he shows his anger to. Something about me triggers the anger in him. However, he did admit to me and his therapist that he’s been angry his whole life, but started suppressing his anger in his teens because he realized that his anger scared people and brought negative attention to him. (I can’t tell you how relieved that makes me feel – it’s not just me.)

My own arm chair psychologist analysis: I’m the only person in his life who has really pushed him and challenged him. His parents have always been very laid back/lackluster with parenting, support etc. They never encouraged their children to stick with things. To work through things. They’re very “free spirited” and feel that people should only do what they want to do in life. “Want to quit your degree one class shy of completion – ‘cause it’s a math course and you don’t like it? Sure, why not. You should only do what you want to do.” “Don’t want to keep working at your job because your boss annoys you? Sure, quit with no notice – another job will come along.” So, I’m quite the departure from do what you want to do. And at the beginning of this separation, I pushed. More than I should’ve. To talk, to try and understand. To try and get him to see reason. I also think I’m the only person that he’s really talking to, and being somewhat honest with – which is why I’m getting the anger. But I have to accept that he has to work through that, and I can avoid situations (for now) that triggers his anger. That’s HIS issue to work on, and when the time comes along where I can help with it – I will.

Am I confident that he’s not at a point where he will harm himself? Not 100%. I would say 99% confident he wouldn’t. But, having lost four people in my life to suicide, I worry probably more than I should. Factor in my own job (I work in the organ & tissue recovery field) and I deal with death EVERY DAY. With every death comes a story – and with the holidays right around the corner, the increases in suicides will start rolling in. So, I’m hypersensitive. ‘Tis the season……..blah. H does has a sit down appointment with our doctor about the meds today. Our doctor is very compassionate man and will do his best to work with H to find something that will work.

So having said all of that – I’m allowing myself to step back. I have to, because I have no other choice. My IC and I are actively working on all of your suggestions. I’ve had several moments of realization over the past couple of days and I’ve got to work on them.

Again, thank you for your kind words – and I like your analogy of being nature.

Hugs back to you.
The past two days have been rough. Wednesday night I got a message from H, saying that he wasn’t communicating because his meds were still giving him nasty side effects, making him very moody and he was avoiding blow ups. I thanked him, validated, etc.

And then about five minutes later it hit me like a truck and I spent a good 20 minutes on the floor of my kitchen sobbing. I’m not on H’s radar. At all. Haven’t been for weeks. Months, if we’re being honest. He hasn’t asked about me or my day in weeks. I suspect this is probably to the meds/depression. But then, take away the depression/meds issue and you still have the separation and his anger at me and all of the reasons why (he feels) I’m a horrible wife and doesn’t want to be with me.

The likelihood of me being able to have a conversation with my H – within the next month? Slim and none. That’s IF the meds get adjusted and he starts to feel better. Then you add into the situation, his feelings, etc. And the possibilities get smaller to the point where the reality is we’re probably going into NC.

I cried myself to sleep, for the first time in months Tuesday night.

Wednesday I forced myself to have a good day. Spent a majority of the day decorating for the holidays at work and running a lot of errands which kept me busy. I had been on the fence about decorating for the holidays since it would be just me, but I was having a good PMA. Like I said on Ss’s thread – I was all “eff yeah I’m going to enjoy the holidays. I’m going to buy a tree. I’m going to decorate, I’m going to do this.”

And I got home, and the tree is sitting in the box in my dining room, and the PMA was gone, and the sadness was back. Honestly, if I had room in my car, I would’ve taken it right back to the store. But I don’t. So it’s still sitting in my dining room. Mocking me. For some reason, I’ve assigned symbolism to the damn tree. And I can’t exactly figure out what the hell is bothering me about it.

Thursday, I was pretty weepy all day. Went to IC. IC told me H was lost in the fog of Depression/Meds out of wack and then our sitch. I have so much I want to say to him. So much I want to share. And he’s not in any place to hear it. She confirmed that. I told her that I needed to focus on myself. Because while up until the b drop, I was genuinely happy. With everything. Marriage, life, career, etc. But now? Now? I can’t name five things I like about myself. And if I can’t like things about myself – how in the hell would I expect H to come home? I feel like H’s negative view of our R has crept into me and saturated my soul. And I don’t like that.

I straight up bawled on her couch. Bawled. I never thought that if we were to come to this in our R that I would be this devastated. Even H noted when all this started how surprised at the devastation I showed. He genuinely thought I wouldn’t care. I thought I would be tough. I’m this tough b*tch right? Turns out I’m not. And I don’t want to be. Because look where that got me. Somewhere, on someone’s thread in the last week – they stated they want to be strong, not tough. I want that as well. The reason I’ve been so angry with my H? Because he can’t see my vulnerability. Because it’s wrapped up in anger. My IC believes if H could see the woman who bawled on her couch, who is making the revelations that I’ve been making – that if he was in a place where he was ready to listen and to see – that we might have a shot. That his perception of me might change. That I need to show the vulnerable, soft side. And I don’t know how to do that. And it scares me.

I cried myself to sleep again last night. Blah.

Tonight will be low key. I will ponder the tree, watch netflix, and go to bed early where hopefully there will be little to no tears.

I'm going to get through this.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/05/14 09:39 PM
Calibri,

Oh man are we similar.

My H was SHOCKED at BD that I didn't say, "yeah, good idea, let's divorce". He was surprised by my desire to work things out, make changes, find our way through this. I was surprised by him being surprised.

I've often wondered if my inability to show vulnerability during our marriage made me seem stronger than I actually was. Too tough.

In actuality, my lack of vulnerability and ability to deeply connect was my way of protecting myself from the disappointment of not feeling safe enough with him to do that. I don't mean to imply it's his fault I was a b!tch. I know it's not. It's my fault for not making changes in me. I always wrongly assumed that making a change in our marriage required his cooperation. I never saw that my singular change could create a trickle effect.

And now I'm paying for that lack of realization.

I think it's good that you're reconnecting with your bawling and vulnerable side. It's hard but in a way it feels good to allow oneself to soften a bit and to just freaking emote instead of being a strong rock all the time. Do you feel similarly?

My personal opinion is that your H is leaning on you too much. You're in a place of having to help him rescue himself but I'm concerned that could backfire. I'm not a vet by any stretch of the imagination but you can't fix his depression, anger, get him on the right meds, fix his parents, be the strict parent he needed as a kid. It's not your responsibility. Your energy needs to be on YOU. Not on helping him pick himself up.

Also, can you slide the tree under the couch or shove it in a closet? Pick a date, say, December 15th, and work your way mentally preparing yourself for putting up the tree that day. Have a couple friends over, only talk about positive things. Make it DIFFERENT than just you putting up a tree alone.

You have control over that. You do. It won't be awesome but it doesn't have to be terrible. Make that choice.
Posted By: TLEE86 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/05/14 11:49 PM
Hi Calibri, finally got the time to read your whole thread and wow…i feel like you're the female version of me…down to cross fit #TeamFroning

Of the many similarities that you write about, the one i wanted to mention was about how you feel like you always have to be in control.

I'm the exact same way and couldn't help but laugh when you said even grief counseling pissed you off because you couldn't control how you were navigating the steps of grief. I said the same thing to my IC and DB coach. What I've learned is…there is nothing on earth that is more humbling, that can literally bring me down to my knees, hell, not even that, half the time i end up sprawled out on the floor, than the thought of not being married to my W anymore. But like you wrote in my thread, there is NOTHING we can do to save our H/W even though we just want to jump in there and be like "ok do it THIS WAY and it will be FIXED." For me, this is the ultimate test of giving up that control that I was so used to having, both at work and in my M. Whenever I get the urge to "fix" my W again, I just tell myself that THAT is what brought my M here, to an extent. This whole experience has shown me that I can't control everything, not everything will go according to my plan. My W is coming up with her own plan, and the more that I try to control it and "make it my own," the worse it gets. 180 for me is…try not to care what she is doing and not make up a plan for her because I have tried to "take care of her" our whole M, and she needs to figure it out on her own. I am sure you already realized this yourself for you and your H…the more you try and pick him up and help him, he will never get that dose of reality he needs.

As for the tree, I'm sure many of us are in that same boat. You do have control over that. Maybe put it up, take a picture, send it to H. Show him what he is missing.
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/06/14 12:20 AM
Hi Calibri,

SS had a good idea, make it a date with some girlfriends, some wine, cheese, crackers, grapes? After the three maybe play some board game, or some poker, just for fun.

And... maybe it's time to pick yourself up and read DB, DR again and Sandy's list. You want to show your vulnerability right now, so you can use this as yours 180s. How you behave when you are tough? Maybe try to do "as if".

At some point, things will get better. Try do think that the priority is to make positive changes on you, respect and allow yourself to love yourself.

It's very hard, the hardest thing you will ever do in your life, but you need to "LET GO" and start doing things you like. Maybe you don't even know what you like, but try small things first and see if that smile shows up again.

Today I will ring the Salvation Army bell for one hour in front of a supermarket... it may be silly in many people's opinion, but I am having a blast to know that I will help a little bit someone that has less then what I have. It makes me feel good and I can even forget H for awhile.

This time of the year is very good for doing some volunteering, look for things that can enrich your spirit. Work out, go for a bike ride, walk.

The more you feel good about yourself, the more your H will think about what he is loosing. He thinks about you, he is just so mixed up right now that he can't bring himself to face his own situation.

Go back and check your priorities, your goals, concentrate in things that work and don't do what does not work. Be patient, patient, and when you think you are done be more patient.

About the Xmas tree... why do you do it in the first place? I do my Xmas tree because I am catholic and I believe it's a symbol of my faith in God, so for me it has nothing to do with H, I do it for myself because my faith does not change with H or without him. Just a tough.

And put some eye cream, crying can make your eyes baggy and you want to be gorgeous... this is to make you laugh!!!! kkkkk

Keeping you in my heart and prayers!
Pink
A short post tonight (shocking, I know :-))

I inadvertently talked to H today. On the phone. And he didn't lose his [censored]. Score one for the LBS.

. Was contemplating going dark for awhile prior to conversation. And then I get: "Please don't stop checking up on me. It's nice and I appreciate it. And your text about glitter and working with a pole seriously made me laugh."

And then I get "I'm going to try and force myself to make an effort to check in with you more and let you know how things are."

...........ok. Really could do without the second part. But now what? You don't want to work on anything but yourself, and not our relationship but you want me to keep checking in on you? This pisses me off. But at the same time, I guess I should consider it progress. Maybe? Whatever.

I feel like I'm being played. Or friend zoned. And I feel like an [censored] for saying that about someone with depression. But that's how I feel. I plan on rereading DR tomorrow, especially depressed spouses part. And regroup.

-----

And for those of you keeping score at home......we are at the end of day four of the Christmas tree standoff. Gotta find humor somewhere.

----
Ss, TLE, Pink - thanks for the check ins - I'm responding tomorrow.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/07/14 04:26 AM
Calibri,

I'm not sure you're being friend zoned quite as much as you are absolutely being put in the position of being his crutch. He wants to be accountable to someone and he's making that someone YOU but I'm really worried that's going to bite you in the butt later. I can see him saying that you pushed him into certain things, etc., you know? It's not a great scenario given his depression and your habit of control. I don't want him to out you in a place where he could accuse you of trying to strong arm him into anything.

He's putting you in a bad situation. He's clearly codependent and if you continue to be his crutch, you're enabling him.

Be careful of that.

IMO, it is best if your checking on him is VERY limited and done from a place of serious detachment, which given the newness of your sitch, I'm not sure that's possible right now.

Your H sounds like a bit of a manipulator by playing the victim. His parents are covering his living expenses. His work is dealing with his strange hours because of his therapy schedule and you're being sucked in to checking in on him.

Maybe a vet can chime in.

And him checking in on you is him furthering his crutch. He's looking to be cared for but he needs to learn how to do that himself and you have to learn to let him do that.

It's going to be hard for sure but there's power and freedom in that.

The Christmas tree is up. This inanimate object that, for the past FIVE days has mocked me about the situation I'm in - is up. And decorated.

And I'll be damned if the lights didn't burn out on me right as I put the thing up.

The irony is not at all lost on me.

I tried fixing it. I didn't have the patience to try and find which bulb was burned out. I thought about leaving it, half burned out, but that seemed ridiculous. I thought about calling H for help but scoffed at that. I stared at it for awhile and said eff it. I went downstairs, grabbed a strand of regular green lights and wound them around my all white Christmas tree. Keeping it classy.

It's not perfect. And neither am I. But both will do for right now.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/08/14 04:51 AM
Way to make the tree, in all its mocking glory, imperfectly perfect, Calibri.

What a beautiful metaphor for your sitch!! Now, it's time to make yourself imperfectly beautiful, despite it all!!!

Cheering for you!
So, from my posts from Ss, TLE, and Pink I’ve got a couple of themes that are swirling around in my head – will probably be a multiple part series.

H leaning on me/needing to pick himself up:

I’m struggling with this (clearly). The past few weeks H has been clear that he “needs to go down this path on his own, wants to be left alone, etc” – which is why I was shocked to hear that he wanted me to keep checking in on him. And I’m still debating on if I will or not. I’m very careful not to suggest anything when I talk to him – aside from small issues with his meds. (I did tell him that the doctor’s office was open the day after thanksgiving and that there was an after hours nurse line that he could call – simply because he doesn’t know these things.) Like Ss pointed out – I don’t want to be accused of strong arming him into anything.

I’ve been reading a lot on the Karpman drama triangle which essentially says within relationships there’s a victim-rescuer-persecutor triangle. I’ve seen myself in both the persecutor and rescuer position. I’ve seen H in the persecutor, victim mode.

Key points of a persecutor:-blame, -critical, mobilized by anger, -rigid authoritative stance or “this is all your fault”

Key points of a victim: feels oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, looks for someone who will perpetuate their negative feelings, blocks self from making decisions, solving problems, or “poor me”

Key points of a Rescuer:-Rescues when really doesn’t want to, Feels guilty if doesn’t rescue, keeps victim dependent, gives permission to fail or “let me help you.”

Oooooh boy are we on that triangle. Big time.

I do believe H is a chronic victim. I’ve noticed that over the years. It’s always been related back to crappy childhood, alcoholic mother, crappy work situation, nagging wife, etc. I feel that I stepped into the role as rescuer because I wanted to be the advocate for H that he didn’t have in his childhood. But it developed from a selfish point. I wanted to be the advocate for H that I didn’t have. I felt that I could prove to H that he didn’t have to pay the role of victim. That he didn’t have to accept his family and their co-dependent dysfunctional BS. That he would thank me for looking out for him. But instead, I got sucked into his/their cycle of dysfunction. And I got dropped on my ass in the process.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who play the role of victims. I'm starting to think that makes me an [censored]. I’ve been through some horrific chit. And I’m not a victim, I made a choice to not be defined by the stuff that happened to me, but instead use it as a tool to navigate through life. But, I became a very hardened individual. I came across this quote today: “All the hardest, coldest people you meet were once as soft as water. And that’s the tragedy of living.” Iain Thomas.

Which will be touched upon on another post – but I’ve got to get over being a hard ass. Which brings me to Pink's point -- how to show vulnerability.

So, currently working to get out of the triangle. Will be a topic in IC. Also received co-dependency no more in the mail today. I have a feeling I’m going to learn I’m more co-dependent than I thought.

Hoooray for DB!
Aaaaaannnnd......just had a revelation.

Know one knows what I've been through in my life. Joe Blow could walk past me and has no clue. He doesn't know what I've gone through, but he does get to see the attitude, middle finger in the air, "I'm not taking your chit" mentality.

I haven't been protecting myself from other people so much as I've been protecting myself. Part of the hardness is a coping mechanism, but it's also a way I thought I could control others from hurting me. But the only person I've been hurting is myself. And the relationships I have.

Fantastic.

Ss? Others? Thoughts?
Posted By: TLEE86 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/09/14 02:29 PM
Wow thats a deep post! I definitely hear you on what you're saying about the drama triangle and can definitely see myself in the same persecutor/rescuer role. My question to you is you mentioned you're working to get out of the triangle. What exactly are you doing? Curious to hear what you have to say in later posts about how to show your vulnerable side.

Can't remember but because you were always the tough one in the relationship, I'm assuming you're H was always the soft one, and like you said the victim? Like DB says, relationships are always a see-saw. When one person takes on one role, the other person doesn't have to, and plays the other role. IMHO, because you are always so tough and "don't have a lot of sympathy for victims," you are not letting your H have the opportunity to get out of the role of victim. By constantly showing that you are a hard ass, your H will continue to be soft, which in turn makes you more frustrated and more irritated at why he is the way he is. Please let us know what you come up with as your course of action. I know I've learned a lot just by reading your thread.

BTW, glad to see you put up your tree. I have yet to do that. You're a better person than I am right now. ha
I'm going to whine.

I miss my H. Deep, deep within my soul. I miss the way his eye crinkle when he laughs. I miss the way he would dance along to music when cooking, getting ready for work, cleaning, etc. I miss his cooking (god, do I miss his cooking. Bless him - because I do not have the patience that he has). I miss the warmth of his body. I miss watching him gain confidence in himself in Crossfit.

But most of all, I miss talking to him. Not even about serious stuff. About the shenanigans in our lives and with our respective families. We're going on day like 9,000 of decorating for the holidays at work. The level of glitter and fake garland is unthinkable. H would get a kick out of it. I would love to talk to H about it. But I can't. It's also my 1 year anniversary of working at my job today. We probably would've worked out and then gotten take out to celebrate.

Instead, I'm writing here. I suppose I could get takeout after my workout tonight. But it's not the same.

This blows. Hard.

/whiny post.
Posted By: Little Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/09/14 05:46 PM
*hugs* From someone that feels the same way, I offer you what solace and comfort I can from afar.

I wish there was so magical way we could fix our situations, all of us that have had to resort to this site.

I, myself, find little things to talk to BF about all the time and truly wish that whatever it is we have between us, he felt as strongly about it as I do. God, you're so right about that soul feeling of something NOT RIGHT in your world when the one you love so deeply isn't right there with you.

Hang in there. You're not alone, not by a long shot.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/10/14 03:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Calibri
Aaaaaannnnd......just had a revelation.

Know one knows what I've been through in my life. Joe Blow could walk past me and has no clue. He doesn't know what I've gone through, but he does get to see the attitude, middle finger in the air, "I'm not taking your chit" mentality.

I haven't been protecting myself from other people so much as I've been protecting myself. Part of the hardness is a coping mechanism, but it's also a way I thought I could control others from hurting me. But the only person I've been hurting is myself. And the relationships I have.

Fantastic.

Ss? Others? Thoughts?


Wow, Calibri, are you my soul sister or what? I think on page two or three of one of my first threads I wrote these same words verbatim. Scary.

The interesting question is, what are we trying to protect ourselves from exactly? And is it working?

MWD says to do what works. Clearly being hard and direct and assertive, or in my case, reactive to the point of verbal brutality, hasn't served us well... At least it hasn't protected us the way we thought it should.

But it's an old habit I find myself slipping back into sometimes. It's comfortable there. Predictable. Controllable.

After a few months I can look back and see I've softened a bit. I used to go years and years without shedding a year. Now I can barely go a day. It's not just my sitch I'm crying over, I'm generally more sensitive to life now, more compassionate, empathetic and I think that may mean my hardened brick walls of emotion are crumbling. I kind of like it.

I've been reading your responses to people on the board, Calibri, and I see that you're doing better than you might think. You sound strong and confident... And you're exploring the world of letting go a bit. That's NOT easy and as someone who is similar in personality, I KNOW it's hard and a process. Give yourself credit.

You're doing it. You're climbing. Just don't look down. wink
Ss,

I think we are soul sisters. Reading your story gave me the strength to post my own -- because of how similar we seem and some of the similarities that we have with our issues. It's nice knowing that I'm not alone out there.

What are we protecting ourselves from? Me - hurt from people who claim to "love me", and abandonment. Does it work? Yes and no. Have I hip checked some toxic people out of my life. Absolutely. But I have to wonder what I've missed in the meantime.

That's why I felt (and still do) so strongly about my H and my relationship with him. He knew what I was up to (allegedly). I tested him early on to see what he could handle and what he couldn't. I was honest with him, about my fears, about my problems, about me. He's actually softened me up a bit.

But I have found, upon reflection, when I'm extremely stressed out, or upset about my life -- I get nasty. It's not on purpose. But more of a, "WTF - why do I have to do this, this and this on top of everything else?"

Prime example: I've had to become Health Care Power of Attorney for my grandfather who lives six hours away. Why? My father had a breakdown, neglected my grandfather who was having his own breakdown, and could no longer look out for my grandfather, who had appointed my father as HCPA - should the time come. I had to become HCPA, override my father, put my grandfather in a nursing home and deal with the daily responsibilities that come with caring (from afar) with a 90 year old man with dementia. Once my dad came out of his breakdown, he got nasty. Very nasty. Thought I was trying to take away power from him and threatened all kinds of things. And in the middle of all this, I became nasty myself. I was pissed off because my grandfather put care for his life with his mentally ill son. My father, who has never been responsible for ANYTHING in his life, shirked his duties, and never once thanked me for taking care of his dad (then or now). I became angry that my dad had been enabled his entire life and faced no repercussions. I was angry that I was the only one who gave a damn to step in and take on this role.

Add that with my step-dad having cancer, my best friend having cancer, my other grandfather having a stroke and declining rapidly, being unsatisfied with my job, feeling insecure about myself (oh hai, I have a graduate degree and I can only secure part time work, I fail at life) and it became a big ball of "mad at the world, middle finger to everyone, ball of anger." At one point in time I said to my IC: "why am I constantly surrounded by people who cannot get their [censored] together, and why am I the one who has to be the one to pick it up?"

Why do I feel the need to be responsible for the irresponsibility in other grown peoples lives? Most likely because it's a learned behavior that I watched with my father and his father. My grandfather cleaned up all the messes that my father made, because "it was the right thing to do." The mentality that it wasn't fair or right didn't matter. It was ingrained upon me that you took care of the mess of your loved ones, because that was your responsibility of being an adult.

Does it work for me? Probably not. My family looks to me as this beacon of strength. This pillar that supports everyone else. Several people in my family, my H included, have told me they wish that they had my fortitude. They wished they had my strength. They wish that they could just "tell it like it is" like I do, and not worry if people were pissed off at them.

And all I can think is, I became this way, because I didn't have the pillars of strength in my life. I tell it like it is, because quite frankly, I'm exhausted with the constant bullshit and enabling, and head in the sand mentality from my loved ones my entire life. I'm tired of sacrificing for others. I'm tired of being the one to take care of things be it with my grandfather or my H because THEY didn't take the steps in their lives to prevent things from happening. And I get that life happens, and no one expects what gets thrown at us, but COME ON, PEOPLE.

So no. Protecting myself hasn't served me well. Because, by protecting myself, I haven't set boundaries for myself. By protecting myself, I allowed situations to be created, that I in turn resented being a part of. It's the whole triangle thing I was talking about.

Will I stop being hard? Probably -- I'm working on that daily. Having my H leave me - has humbled me. Deeply. Will I stop being direct and assertive? Probably not. Those are things that are rooted deep within me. But I'm choosing to work on being direct and assertive in non combative ways that are more constructive rather than destructive. Not everyone needs what my brother lovingly refers to my honesty as "a truth kick to the face."

---

I don't think I'm doing great. But then again -- I'm kind of like, well - this is where I'm at today. Yesterday was an eye opener for me. I miss H deeply. But I went on with my day. I worked out. I set a new PR, I got myself take out on the way home. I watched the series finale of Sons of Anarchy. I did what I wanted to do with my day. You know what, it was ok. And my thought when I went to sleep was, "I hope H is getting what he needs out of this separation. I hope that he's becoming as enlightened as I am. I hope that he would like to come back. He's missing a beautiful life with me. But regardless, it's going to be beautiful."

---

I may be back on the kitchen floor this weekend, but hey -- this is where I'm at today.
More text diarrhea from Calibri tonight: aka I won't need IC this week because I'm doing it all here.

Being a hard ass was self preservation, I've established that. Repeatedly. But what it freaking boils down to is this. I felt unloved. By a lot of key players in my life who should've done a better job, but were doing the best they could. Some more than others. I felt like a magnet for bad things: people who didn't love me, abuse, etc. I hid a lot of my childhood from my peers and some family, because who wants to open up about the nasty things in life. Add in that I was a late bloomer and yeah, I felt like the ugly girl that would always be alone. Unloveable.

Sure, you can pad a bra, buy makeup, change your hair. But who wants to love the girl with the crazy father? The girl who could go crazy herself, cause you know, things pass down. Who wants to love the girl who doesn't trust people because she's seen the worst in people? She sees what weakness gets. So the wall went up. Because no want wants to marry a girl like that.

And the wall came down. For H. But the chip on the shoulder was still there. While most of the pain had subsided, the fears still lingered in the background. When the fears came to light. So did the not so great parts. But surely the man who had the patience to tear down the wall would have the patience to love me, right?

Apparently not. I am living the reason daily, why I had the wall up in the first place.

And that ladies and gents is how 24 hours, finishing a book on radical acceptance and thinking too much can take you from a PMA day to a "I'm going to bed soon because it's much more comfortable to cry there - as opposed to my kitchen floor. "

----
On the plus side, my GAL activities are so full this up coming month. So.....yay!?

----

Ugh





Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/11/14 03:49 AM
Girl, we need to chat. For reals. It's against the rules to share personal information but we gotta figure out a way. It's like you're in my head saying exactly what I'm saying.

How do we make this happen?
And one more before I cut myself off from my own thread tonight.

Finishing up Radical Acceptance (total recommendation by the way), the author talks about when we are caught up in our own drama, everyone else becomes an "other." We don't think about their needs or their hurts, in fact we perhaps categorize them as "unreal or unfeeling."

So, while in the midst of all my pain, I was unaware of my H's pain or drama. Partially because the enormity of the situation I was in, and partially because I assumed that he would speak up about anything that had bothered him. He didn't. And he was hurting with his own issues just as much as I was with mine (I'm assuming here). He felt pressure to keep me happy and support me, while doing so, perhaps at his own expense.

I feel like such a shitty wife and person as well.

No more posting on my own thread tonight.

I'm cutting myself off.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/11/14 03:52 AM
Don't cut yourself off! You're making good strides and it's cathartic to type this stuff out sometimes!!

Ps I just bought that book. Seriously, not 10 seconds before logging on and reading your post. Weird.
Posted By: Little Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/11/14 04:34 AM
Near as I can tell, if one or both posted to the DB Facebook page with a code word.....*cough*
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/11/14 07:28 PM
Hi Sweetie,

Hey girl, don't let a bad day destroy the hard work you have been putting to get in a better place.

I know how hard it is. And you know how hard it has been to face my childhood issues. Alcoholic father, abusive mom that spanked me with a piece of fence wood a million times, sexual abuse from step father, you name it.

It's all in you and your past, it bothers you and will be a wound that never heals, sometimes it is like a sleeping volcano and sometimes it feels we are rubbing salt on it.

I anyway the time to stop the insanity is now. You have that power to start working to stop all the pain. Underdog told me to put aside my R issues for now and focus in get myself back. I am doing it. To tell the truth I am getting to a place that I don't even think much of my R now, I want to clean my closet once for all.

My IC told me we will start a 8steps program called EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing). Look up online, there are tons of info on this. It's even used to treat PTSD. And addressing the childhood problems will help to address the anxiety, depression, inferiority, insecurity... all the negativity inside yourself.

Please, give yourself a chance to be happy. At some point, it does not matter anymore if H will be back or not. What it matters is exactly what we learn here. That we are the most important person no matter what. And if we take good care after ourselves, we have a chance to have a healthy R with H or someone else down the road.

Life is short, we have wasted some time crying our pain and it did not help much, we have been destroying some things because our masks do not stay with us all the time. Take some time, clear those tears and approach the problem with real solutions.

I know it may seen impossible at times, but it's not. You are here for a reason, you are a smart person. You helped me when I needed help. You are kind and ramble to say "I was wrong... I messed up". Give yourself credit and look how and what you can do to really help all your issues.

I don't know what will happen tomorrow, if this EMDR will really work for me, but it a starting point and I will try to get all the bad out of my heart, or at least let go the pain. I will do it and I believe you can do it too.

You say you are tough, well, I think I know that kind of tough. I am the same way. Now, I can see myself, I am not tough, I am a strong person that has strong personality. I have my own opinions and I like to respect myself. Along the way, external factors made me tough, rough skin, just to protect myself.
Inside me I am gentle, soft, a loving person that is always afraid to show and get hurt again.

You can do it Calibri, get the help you need for yourself, tell yourself it has been too much too long and you do not want to start 2015 without a plan to clean the skeletons in your closet.

It's for your own good, but you will see that the sunshine inside you will slowly come forward and you will start attracting good stuff, good people and maybe H will fall in love with a better you all over again.

Believe in yourself... I already believe in you.

Lots of hugs sweetie.
Pink
Originally Posted By: TLEE86


IMHO, because you are always so tough and "don't have a lot of sympathy for victims," you are not letting your H have the opportunity to get out of the role of victim. By constantly showing that you are a hard ass, your H will continue to be soft, which in turn makes you more frustrated and more irritated at why he is the way he is.


So I've been thinking about this for days. I'm on the fence about this. H had victim tendencies before we got together. But they didn't become glaringly apparent until we hit serious conflict (money, my MIL, apparently buying that damn house). When I say I'm a hard ass, rest assured, I'm not riding H 24/7. Most of the time I was laid back. But when we had conflict, that's where the hard ass came out and was directed towards him. I tried different approaches with him, and the only thing that got results was being a hard ass.

Seriously. We could agree upon something, and he would go along with it for a week or so, and then fall back into old habits, or "forget" that he had agreed upon something. I attribute this to what I call the "special snowflake syndrome." With the way he was raised, his mother placed her kids on unrealistic pedestals and gave them over inflated views of their roles in the world. I've touched on it before, but what it boils down to is - they were given the message by their mother that they could do whatever they want, because they're so gifted/smart/good looking and that life was too short NOT to do what you wanted. And if they made a serious mess, their mother always cleaned it up while either raking them across the coals saying she "raised them better than that" or placing the blame on someone else in the situation.

So when I would get frustrated, he would tell me that, "it's not that big of a deal." Which is like waving the red flag in front of me and daring me to say something. :-) What got results was either a)yelling or b) being a hard ass. I think he responded to that because that's what he grew up with his mother. Nothing was ever discussed, it was angry reactions and screaming that they all abided by because it's what would pacify her at the time.

I don't like that I had to be a hard ass or yell to get results from him. But I felt, that was the only way that would get a response, and that would get me heard. And I felt that way, because that's the only thing that got me results. And for the record, this wasn't like every day things -- there's been only five times over the course of ten years where I was a serious hard ass and we were having knock down drag out fights about something.

So, to answer your question, I genuinely don't know if not being a hard ass will allow him to change. I think he has to change his view on how HE wants to be. I know he has expressed a desire not to be the way he is, but he doesn't see himself as victim. I'd be curious to see what he actually thinks of himself. I think he doesn't believe he has the ability to change his situation.

Oh hell, I don't know. But good thought provoking question of the week!
I've been reading your past and my situation is quite similar. H has depression and anxiety,he pretty much had a meltdown after BD. Everything you have described, i went through. His anxiety skyrocketed when our family came to visit us in June. I had no idea he had these mental diseases and he basically denies it or rather he knows he had it but doesnt want to see the doctor. We are only staying married till summer, 2015 . Recently, he keeps wanting to see baby and I more often. I mean I understand seeing the baby but why me? He tries to get us to visit him [since I'm living with a friend]. Somedays, he tells me that he is confused about this and cats about me but other days tells me that his decision on D has not changed. But, he would get mean and angry with me when we were going back home, later he opens up and tells me that the reason is because he hates being alone all week [his choice anyway]. So bottom line, I actually feel way better than I did a few months ago. U jane nor really been doing GAL because I'm pretty much just working and spending time with baby. I do get out and about visiting friends though. I have not dropped the rope yet. I've been telling h to get help since both his parents have depression and anxiety but he is a stubborn donkey.
I just keep praying and hoping he realizes I'm not the problem. But, if he decides to go ahead with the D, i just hope he will be happy. It's really hard not to blame myself for this mess. I have constant heartaches but I'm also letting him cut the cake and have it too because I go out of my way to stay worth him during the weekend. But, it's getting tiring and i feel stronger most of the time now. The only reason I'm letting him do this is because I fear he is sucidal 30% and I'm the only one he talks to about his feelings. I've told him to talk to professionals but he absolutely refuses. My friends and family tell me to let him be and i should not take that kind of pressure but i can heal, he can't eight now.

I'll keep reading your post.
Hope -

Thanks for stopping by. It's tough watching loved ones have a meltdown. My H is in denial that he's having a meltdown. But I've learned that he has to go down this path - regardless of where it leads. It's hard not to want to help them, but from my research and experiences, trying to help someone who has depression can blow up in your face. They may view your help as being controlling, or make them feel worse, and therefore the situation gets worse.

The most important thing for my H and yours, I believe is to get a to a place where they are healthy and happy -- whatever that looks like for both of them.

I'll be thinking about you!
Pink,

As always, thank you for stopping by and spreading such warmth on my thread. It's always warming to see your positive outlook.

I've heard about EMDR. My IC and I have talked about it. I'll be interested in seeing how it works for you.

The funny thing is, I thought I had worked through a majority of my issues and had come to peace with most of them. But with taking care of my grandfather and being pissed off at my dad combined with H leaving, I realize that there are a few things that aren't resolved, they've been brewing underneath the surface....and have exploded in my face.

IC and I have talked about working on what's bothering me in my own life, and issues within my M - as H is against working on the marriage at this time. That feels like the right thing to do (all though my next post is going to seem counter intuitive to this), as the only person I can focus on is myself. By working on those issues, I hope to become a better person who will cut herself some slack, and in turn, others as well.

It will be out of my comfort zone, but I'm hoping that it will be worth it.
Ok, so this post is going to be counter-intuitive to what I just said to Pink. But, I opened a door I probably shouldn't have with H, and I need advice - would love if the vets could help out here.

H is less angry. He's *saying* that he said alot of things over the past two months towards me that while angry, were not based on his feelings. He appears to be softening his stance towards me (saying that he wishes he did things differently, that the problems we're having our his fault too, etc). However, he's still not open to working on our M "at this time." He says he's not where he needs to be emotionally, still needs to work on himself, etc. The last time he addressed our R he said, "he was open to the idea of reconciliation in the future, but found it very hard to imagine that scenario. I also got the ILYBNILWY punctuated by "i'll never open my heart to you again because of all the pain you've caused me." (Which, for the record, he's sort of taken that back, but I'm taking that with a grain of salt.)

The other day I texted him and said I would like to have the opportunity to talk to him because there were some things on my mind and I didn't want them to fester and become bigger. I immediately regretted sending that text because I knew that anything I had to say really wasn't a)productive DBing and b)going to fall upon receptive ears. Shockingly he texted me back and agreed and I thanked him but said that I actually wanted to contemplate my feelings more and perhaps talk at a later time. He followed up the next day asking me if I wanted to talk about it. I again reiterated no, but said I was receptive to having a general conversation if he felt up to it. He agreed.

We've basically have been limited contact (ie: me texting him to see if he was alive) since his AD meds increased. He purposely put the distance between us because he didn't want to blow up on me and he was feeling very stressed and irritable. He's in the process of changing meds now.

We were supposed to chat last night, he blew me off, I politely confronted him about it. And I blew off some steam, using lots of I feel this way when you said this but then did that. Etc. Despite all of this, he still expressed an interest in starting to have conversations with me.

So. What do I say in these conversations, should they happen? Knowing that my H doesn't want to work on our M "right now"/if ever. Obviously no R talks. I know he reads my facebook because he referenced something I posted today and said, "your post today made me chuckle. I want to hear more of the great stories you have." To which I responded, "You'd know about the great stories if I was even on your radar and you wouldn't shut me out." (Mental 2x4 - multiple times).

Obviously no responses like that. I'd like to show off what progress I've made without saying it, I'd like to make him want to talk to me more. Basically, I'd like to position myself so H things less of me as the big bad bitchy wife, and more of the W he fell in love with, 10 years ago. With the hopes that it might guide him towards working on the M.

----
I feel like I'm auditioning to be a part of my marriage again.

---
Advice?
Oh Calibri!

I feel like I'm auditioning to be part of my marriage too. I don't feel experienced enough to give a lot of advice, but I'll just say something I read in DR that's helped me a ton when I'm wondering if it's OK to say this or that or talk about something. MWD said something along the lines in DR like "No one ever got in trouble for something they didn't say." For my own marriage, my husband felt controlled but I also know my words had a big impact on him—criticism, things yelled during fighting, etc—so I'm ver careful with my words these days!

Not sure if I helped or hijacked your thread. It's good your H is opening up to you though!
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/12/14 08:21 PM
Hi Calibri,

You know I am not a vet but have some miles on me. I feel a lot like you personally. It's difficult for us to talk about some issues we want to resolve, we are tough girls, we learned to be that way.

But, but, but... we are also trying to change that and become more lovable, spontaneous, have a smile in our faces and feel light. We want to stop the anxiety, fear, pressure. It's very hard for me to stop reacting to everything I see as a treat to hurt me, my feelings. And I am quite sure you also do that even in your dreams, just like me, it's automatic.

So, like Lorelai said, maybe you try to hear more what he can say to you, behave very DB. Make sure he knows you acknowledge all what he is saying. Have eye contact, be gentle without being fake. Be patient, patient, and when you think you can blow again, be patient.

Instead of blowing on his face for all he has been hurting you. Try to blow his mind seeing that you are a nicer girl and maybe, just maybe he will think he was too confused and did not see how much he needs you, how much he still loves you.

Like my H, yours does not want to work on the M right now, so plant a little seed of confusion on him. It will probably make him back off a little bit, make him afraid of his own feeling for you, but he will think, and he will think of you.

Good luck honey! I will keep you posted on my progress with EMDR, it sounds like it can help me.

Hugs,
Pink
I don't understand how someone can not be opposed to having a reconciliation, but doesn't want to commit to actually working on the marriage? But then wants to have conversations to see what happens and go from there? And for the record, I didn't even want to talk about the damn R. It just freaking snowballed and sucked both of us into it.

.....in other words, convo with H didn't go well. I suck at DBing. We both suck at communication. We can't break the cycle of our communication problems that we have when there's conflict.

So he wants us to ask our IC's individually how we should handle breaking the cycle. That would probably require us to have C. Together. Which would constitute working on the R. Which is what H doesn't want to do, right now.

*throws confetti in the air*

So frustrated right now. More to post later but I'm off to my company work party where I gave to put on a happy face. But damn it, I'll at least look good.



Posted By: Little Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/13/14 09:18 PM
Yikes. I'm sorry that's the circle you find yourself. It is, indeed, a frustrating loop.

You go look cute, lady. You deserve to have a good time. smile
Posted By: TLEE86 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/14/14 01:19 AM
Am I the only one that sees this as a positive? The fact that he wants you guys to ask your IC's how to fix your communication problems, to me, sounds like a good step. And if you guys go to counseling together isn't that a good thing? I know you said your H doesn't want to work on the M but going to counseling to fix your problem, even if it's just communication, seems very positive to me? The fact that he is even addressing it sounds like he wants to work on it.

RE: your H wants to have conversations and go from there

obviously I'm no vet but my W said the same thing a while back. That she just wants to be able to talk to each other again and just see what happens. To me all this means is they want to establish some sort of communication to where your friends again and not at each other's throats or just angry all the time. They just want to see if you can even talk to each other again because if not then obviously there's no marriage to be saved...

These are just my thoughts, my W said the same thing and now we are very friendly when we talk to each other. I know that a lot of vets say it is not about what makes your H/W nice to you but what he/she does to make the M work, but IMHO if your WAS is not nice to you and isn't talking to you on a friendly level, how can you save the marriage?

Any vets out there that care to shed some light on this in case I'm way off base, please share
Posted By: Pink17 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/14/14 02:05 AM
Hi Calibri,

I am not a vet, but I think you got to the top of the mountain. It's time to take good care after yourself girl.

Your H is very confused, stressed out and is dealing with meds, he does not know what path to take, and maybe does not know if there is any path at all.

You said that his parents were very manipulative, and I see that in some ways that is what he is doing. I am not saying he knows that, but he is doing it because it's what he learned to do to handle situations in his life.

The whole meltdown is a sign of weaknesses. He put himself in that position because he does not need to confront himself. His insecurities does not allow him to see with clarity, he is in the fog.

And if he has some issues like Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder, then he won't see anything the same way you see it. It would be good to determined that he has or not those kind of mental issues. It makes a world of difference if he is diagnosed and takes the correct medication. He becomes just normal again. The fact that he did start acting this way after his family reunion just show that it could be the trigger for all meltdown.

So, I would take a step back and think about the patterns, what you think he is looking for with all this. He does not want to be far from you, he trust you and he probably love you. But in the same time, because you are a determined person, you are also a symbol of his failures, his inferiority.

He may never say this to you but deep inside he knows he needs to step out of his comfort zone. He needs to confront his issues by himself. You can give him some support letting him know you care deeply for him, but you may want to make it clear that he needs to sort all this stuff up on his own.

Maybe, you need to make it clear to him that you want to work on your M, but going through this hard time in your life made you understand that you had your own problems and have decided to work on making yourself a better person.

Maybe the best is to have some time and space, and you can even tell him that. That you have been thinking and decide to give yourself some time to work on your own issues.

This will make him think. Also will give him some perspective that he is not the only one that struggles during this time.

The least what you want is to make things worse, and it just sound like the stress is growing. He is going in circles, buying time so he does not need to face his own issues.

With kind words, and I mean just kind, not kissing his behind, you can let the guard down for a bit and let him see the fragile side of you. You don't need to look needy, but look as a person that had enough. That this whole drama is poisoning your soul.

In some ways he may also take a step back and think of what he is doing, what he wants, what he may lose, what is important for him and most important who he is in all of this mess he create for himself.

The most important thing here is not "do what is the same and does not work". You two are going cheese-less tunnels. Stop, think, breath, reassess, look for options. You know this man and you can probably think of what happens when you talk to him is way A, B or C. How is the interaction between you too when you say things that show you more vulnerable, maybe this way he can step up and feels that he makes a difference for you.

You know that the tough side, the controlling, confronting, being bossy is not working for you. Then, even if you need some time away from him, think about ways that can better approach him. If he calls you, be nice to the point it does not hurt you. And then be off again. You don't want to go dark, but you don't want to suffocate him. There must be a balance.

I hope it helps with some ideas, It's just a perspective from a 3rd person's eyes.

Be good to yourself, don't beat yourself up. I have been trying very hard to be gentle to myself and it's helping to reach my core.

Lots of Hugs to you!
Pink
TLEE-

I would view it as positive if he actually meant it. And right now I don't believe 90% of what comes out of his mouth. He has a history of saying whatever the other person wants to hear in the conversation.

He will say and do things he doesn't want to do, all for the sake of not wanting to rock the boat. Or having someone think poorly of him, etc and so forth.

He's pulled something like about once a month since BD labor day weekend. He will suggest talking or hanging out "to see how it goes" and then either won't follow through, will get pissed off at something I've said or done, or will reveal that he never wanted to do anything he suggested in the first place. He was just making the suggestion because it was the, "right thing to do" or my personal favorite, "I thought that this would be a way of letting you down easier." Yes, because pretending to work on our relationship with no intentions of actually doing the work? Great way to let me down.

If I sound angry or bitter, it's because I am. I'm letting it out here.

I'm painted into a corner. I can't initiate conversations because that's "pursuing" as defined by DB and him. He won't communicate with me unless he's feeling over 75% happy and or not tired. So, we aren't talking. If we do talk, I'm supposed to keep it light and upbeat (as defined by DB and him) and anticipate how long of a conversation he can "handle." Because talking to me or texting me can "trigger" (hi Ss, I feel your pain.) his bad moods. Ones that last for days, which puts us right back at not talking. The rules are now defined by him, and they change daily, and I never know what they are because he never articulates them, and then gets mad at me when I step over a boundary that he hasn't defined, verbally. While they may be defined in his head, I am not a mind reader and I cannot abide by so,etching I don't know. Which is part of the reason we are where we are at. He doesn't say anything, I have no idea and then I'm resented for it.

Add in the few times that we have talked? It's either met with apathy, ambiguity or leaves me questioning if he's talking to me because he wants to or out of obligation.

It's a crap place to be.

So yes, I would love to view it as a positive. But it actually has to play out.

In regards to everyday talking - I'd love to do that as well. However, I get frustrated by the constant rule changes. The talking only on his schedule, which is dependent upon his mood. And you add in the fact that I feel he's manipulating a lot of people, combined with his hair trigger temper. We don't get very far.

It's a vicious merry go round. I'm ready to get off of it.
Pink,

Getting ready to fall asleep, so will respond in depth tomorrow - but you hit the nail on the head with this statement:

"You are as symbol of his failures, his inferiority."

And that, Pink, is why I'm afraid that this M won't work out.

Ugh.
Originally Posted By: Pink17


You said that his parents were very manipulative, and I see that in some ways that is what he is doing. I am not saying he knows that, but he is doing it because it's what he learned to do to handle situations in his life.


I believe him to be manipulative right now. Me, his parents, possibly his IC. I would agree that he may not realize what he's doing, but he started handling this the way he always has. Avoid avoid avoid. Now it's too big to avoid. I believe he's waiting on someone (other than me) to tell him what to do. Because he's never had to handle bailing himself out of a crisis. Someone's always done it for him. Which is why I think (partially) he's stalled where he is.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

The whole meltdown is a sign of weaknesses. He put himself in that position because he does not need to confront himself. His insecurities does not allow him to see with clarity, he is in the fog.

I don't know if it's a weakness, per say. But rather he's backed himself into a corner and doesn't know what to do. He revealed to me the other day that him leaving? Not all about me. Rather, he had a revelation that he couldn't keep doing down the path he was going, at the expense of himself. Through his IC he's learned that he's a people pleaser, always put others in front of himself, co-dependent. He's always been someones son, or boyfriend or wife. But he's never been himself. So he's now on the path to discover his "authentic self."

Originally Posted By: Pink17


And if he has some issues like Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder, then he won't see anything the same way you see it. It would be good to determined that he has or not those kind of mental issues. It makes a world of difference if he is diagnosed and takes the correct medication. He becomes just normal again. The fact that he did start acting this way after his family reunion just show that it could be the trigger for all meltdown.


I don't think he has bipolar, and neither does his IC, my IC, or our doctor. I (along wither everyone else) think he's bottled up way too much [censored] for 31 years, and it finally came spewing out. He's always controlled his anger, controlled his emotions, and I think something "broke" for a lack of better words and it's all coming out. I read something that said people who bottle up their feelings and anger finally reach a trigger point and everything comes out -- and when it does it's usually explosive, destructive and out of left field. I can attest to that. That's been the last three months at my house.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

So, I would take a step back and think about the patterns, what you think he is looking for with all this.


I think he wants someone to tell him what to do. Because he has no idea what's going on, because he's never dug deep within himself and identified the issues that he has. Does he want to be less moody and volatile - absolutely. This isn't a walk in the park for him. But if I tried to reframe it from his perspective, I would imagine he's looking for himself in all of this. Which is why the R is not a priority to him. And realistically, I know it shouldn't be. But I don't relish in the thought of him finding himself at the expense of me or our M.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

He does not want to be far from you, he trust you and he probably love you. But in the same time, because you are a determined person, you are also a symbol of his failures, his inferiority.


I don't think he wants to be anywhere near me, personally. Just from his actions and his words. But I'm in the middle of the trees and can't see the forest. I do think that I represent his failures and his perceived inferiority.

H has low self esteem from his childhood and dealing with his alcoholic M. I think he never had a chance to develop his self esteem because he was too busy dealing with the volatile nature of his mother, the house he grew up with, being a teen with the weird mother, etc. He's often articulated to me that he wishes that he could be like me, from a confidence standpoint as well as a conflict standpoint. He sees me as someone who has their life together, who doesn't face trials and tribulations (ha!) or if I have conflict, I generally take it head on and solve it. I believe his comparison of himself, to me, has made him feel worse about himself and our relationship. And I've tried to tell him, he can't compare himself to me - it doesn't work that way. But it's just fuel to the fire at this point.

He yelled at me, early on in all this, in a fit of rage, that he never had a voice in our relationship. This is his perception, but it's far from my truth. Any big decisions, I always talked with him about. Every time he has said no, I've respected his wishes. I always sought his input with everything from my own personal matters to our relationship matters. But what I think he's saying, is that he wanted to say more and didn't feel comfortable saying it -- because he was trying to please me. Or be a good husband. Which, I never asked for. He assumed that he had to modify his behavior to make ME happy. He's had a voice, all along, he just hasn't used it or realized until it exploded in his face that he needed to articulate more. For himself, not for me.


Originally Posted By: Pink17

Maybe, you need to make it clear to him that you want to work on your M, but going through this hard time in your life made you understand that you had your own problems and have decided to work on making yourself a better person.


I'm going to sound like a bratty teenager. But I've told him this. He doesn't care. Or, I should rephrase this to say -- I've told him this, but I don't know how much of the information other than I was to work on the M he is retaining.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

Maybe the best is to have some time and space, and you can even tell him that. That you have been thinking and decide to give yourself some time to work on your own issues.

I'm already getting time and space. He's not in any place where he wants to hear anything, if that makes sense? If I tell him that I'm going to give myself time to work on my own issues, he'll just say "ok" and not initiate conversation -- which is pretty much where we're at right now.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

This will make him think. Also will give him some perspective that he is not the only one that struggles during this time.

Again, I'm sounding like a bratty teenager -- but he isn't thinking of anyone or anything other than himself right now. Those are his own words. He knows that I'm struggling. But, it's not really making a (from my perception) impact on him. I get "I know this is hard on you, I'm sorry." And that's it.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

He is going in circles, buying time so he does not need to face his own issues.


Exactly! And really? Why would he face his issues? What's his motivation? His parents are paying for him to live in a hotel, buying food, paying for his therapy. I have access to his pay check and I'm making sure that the mortgage and bills at our house get paid. I'm making sure the animals are taken care of. All he has to do is go to work and go to his hotel room and EVERYONE ELSE takes care of the messes behind him. While I realize this is not easy for him at all and he's in a dark place --- but, he's got a pretty sweet deal. All of the responsibilities are being handled by someone else, he isn't getting pressure from anyone, he doesn't have to do anything except go to work. And even that's optional. He could quit his job right now and his parents would continue to fund this.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

With kind words, and I mean just kind, not kissing his behind, you can let the guard down for a bit and let him see the fragile side of you. You don't need to look needy, but look as a person that had enough. That this whole drama is poisoning your soul.


I don't know how to show him the fragile side? He's been with me 10 years. He's seen my cry and wracked with insecurities. He's seen me struggle with issues, he's seen me absolutely gutted by all of this. And honestly, I don't know if he would believe anything, because he has built me up as the big bad wolf in his head. And when I've tried to show humbleness, or fragility, or how I'm really feeling -- it's met with apathy or ambivalence. And then I get angry. And then we start the cycle round and round again.

I know I need to STFU. And for the most part I've been doing it. But there's only so much that I can sit and bite my tongue before the blood starts pouring out of my mouth and I have to spit it out.

Originally Posted By: Pink17

You know that the tough side, the controlling, confronting, being bossy is not working for you. Then, even if you need some time away from him, think about ways that can better approach him. If he calls you, be nice to the point it does not hurt you. And then be off again. You don't want to go dark, but you don't want to suffocate him. There must be a balance.


I've said this in my response to TLEE -- but with communication -- it's now his rules, his way. And I don't know the rules because they change, daily, right along with his moods. He doesn't want to talk if he's tired. Or if he's in a bad mood. Or if he's not feeling it. Or if the sky is blue. He has boundaries in his head but he doesn't articulate them, but gets mad when I step over them -- not on purpose, but rather because I'm not aware of them.

He got mad at me the other day because "we were on the phone longer than he wanted to be." And I finally said, I can't respect a boundary that you don't articulate, and I'm not going to continue to be flogged for something I don't know that I'm doing. He asked me to explain in detail because he was intrigued by the concept. I told him, "I didn't know you didn't want to be on the phone a long time. If you only want to have a 15 minute conversation with me, then you need to say so, rather than think it in your head, and not say it, and then get pissed off at me because the conversation goes longer -- because you haven't stopped it. I can't respect what I don't know."

This was a new concept to him -- but he agreed that it made sense. But now it's back on him.


I agree with almost everything you're saying. I appreciate the suggestions.

I'm frustrated. I'm tired. I am pissed off. I am myself. I don't like walking on eggshells around someone. I can't practice non confrontational conversations with my spouse, if I'm not talking to him.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm ready to just go dark and tell him that he can contact me either when he wants to work on the relationship, or when he wants to file for D (which he couldn't do until September of next year).

But I won't do that -- because I'm afraid I'll miss an opportunity. Then again, if he wants to figure this out -- he knows where to find me. At this point - I'm going silent for the week. He can follow up or he can't. Right now, I'm tired of doing the heavy lifting. I can't check up on him and be the bad guy as well. I'm tired of the lopsidedness of what going on. I realize that's DB. But I also realize that I have to live with myself regardless of the outcome.

And right now, for today at least, he's on his own.
I decide to go dark for the week, take a break from all of this.

H just texted apologizing for not being in contact today, and says he will call on his lunch break tomorrow.

I swear to God, I am in the Twilight Zone.

---

Im ashamed to say that I'm on the fence about taking his call. I want this, so badly, but I am tired. Extremely tired of all this. I realize what I have to do on this phone call. Be upbeat, be humble, be charming, not be pushy/controlling/myself. I'm in a grumpy place right now. And I realize I should stfu and be greatful that he even wants to talk.

I actually can't talk to him because of a work function. Will text him later tonight/tomorrow and let him know. Should I suggest another time or just let him decide if he wants to follow through at a later time.

I'm leaning towards the later.

--
I'm going to eat cookies and go to bed.
Posted By: TLEE86 Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/16/14 02:10 AM
C,

I'm glad you are taking some time off and going silent at least for a little bit. You sound extremely irritated and frustrated right now and the last thing you want is to be sucked into a conversation when you're already angry. You know right now you will have to do all the heavy lifting, it's not fair in any way but it is what it is.

RE: being vulnerable and showing a softer side

You said that you show him your insecurities and he's seen you cry and all this stuff during your marriage. Maybe that's not what being vulnerable is...I remember you posted a while ago about your IC saying if your H could see how vulnerable you were when you completely opened up and let your guard down and were bawling on your IC couch. Maybe showing your softer side isn't necessarily crying or being understanding and not being "tough." maybe what being vulnerable means for you is to simply open up to him and give him the controls and let him help you for once. Look what happened when you were honest with him about not being able to abide by his boundaries when he doesn't articulate them. He was intrigued and agreed to try it out. Yes The ball is back in his court but isn't that what you wanted? At least to an extent he knows that he has to tell you what his boundaries are in order for you to follow them. You just posted that the other day so I assume you haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Keep being patient and just see how it goes now that you've expressed this concern to him. Give up that control and see what he does.

I read in DB that sometimes some people just set aside a certain time for a specific amount of time every week to just talk... I don't know if this is something you want to suggest to your H? So at least both of you are prepared for a conversation and your husband and you know exactly how long you'll be on the phone for.

Idk if any of this makes sense, sorry if I rambled, I've had a long drive today.
Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/16/14 02:14 PM
Calibri, what does going dark mean to you?
Labug,

Going dark to mean means no contact, no reaching out, nothing. I was using the time as a mental break and regroup with a beginners mind, stop going down the same path etc.

Thoughts?
So, I sent H a text message letting him know that I was unable to talk at lunch due to a work function.

No response.

Sent another text later in the day saying I was sorry we wern't able to connect and asked about his day.

No response.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't really hurt that much. Guess I'm getting somewhat better at detaching.

---
I'm open to suggestions, ya'll.
This situation reminds of of my own H. He is similar. He gets mad at me and doesn't contact me and then all of a sudden he misses me and then he texts to see if the baby and I can come stay with him for the weekend. It's bee. That way for months now and I still keep going down the same path. At this point, I don't think that my H with depression has much thoughts of how I feel. It's all about what he is feeling at the moment. In a way, it's really selfish and i am exhausted by his behavior. I keep telling myself I'm not going to see him or visit him anymore but then it's just a vicious cycle of getting mad and texting again, all while reminding me that we are still getting a divorce. I'm just go f to let you know that dealing with a depressed spouse is tiresome. My head hurts from just thinking about him now. I think this marriage of mine may be 95% gone. I just thought of posting because I know exactly how you feel. I guess it's time for me to re-read the dB book and maybe move on?
Originally Posted By: hope224
. At this point, I don't think that my H with depression has much thoughts of how I feel. It's all about what he is feeling at the moment.


I feel that way, a lot. But I'm trying hard to realize that he has very real pain right now - and that it's altered his life. I feel extremely sad and worried for him. having been depressed before, I know how everything just gets......fuzzy. I try not to take it personally, and most days I'm unsuccessful.

Originally Posted By: hope224

I'm just go f to let you know that dealing with a depressed spouse is tiresome.
Amen to that. I thought I'd be able to navigate the waters as I've suffered from depression before. All of my parents have as well. My grandfather as well. I didn't realize though, how different of an impact it makes on oneself when it's a spouse and not a friend or family member.

Originally Posted By: hope224

My head hurts from just thinking about him now. I think this marriage of mine may be 95% gone. I just thought of posting because I know exactly how you feel. I guess it's time for me to re-read the dB book and maybe move on?


I actually retread DR and the part about depressed spouses. I actually have another book to start reading about dealing with a depressed spouse, once I get motivation to do so. Hugs to you Hope!
And in news not related to my text message quandary and lack of conversations with h.


I am exhausted from GAL. I've been to the movies with my brother and a friend of his. Last weekend I attended two different work holiday parties. I took my sister to my evening work party, where I spent the majority of the evening dancing to really bad music. I figured, I was there, why not. It was also a good bonding experience with my sister. We have a 12 year age difference and therefore not a solid relationship. That's something I'd like to change. The next day my brother, sister and I went on a holiday tour of historic homes, discovered an amazing local food truck, and did some Christmas shopping.

This weekend I'm judging at a crossfit competition, and making chili. Going out of town for Christmas where there's no cell phone service and spotty internet. Huzzah! A friends going away party is in the works for the Saturday after Christmas.

Add in working full time and crossfit 4x a week (2 new PRs set tonight), and I've had a busy month. Looking for new things to do to occupy time and develop me as a person.

Having trouble sleeping. But my appetite has returned. Need to gradually put the weight lost back on, and not all at once.

Continuing IC. All I can do is listen, reflect and learn.



Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/17/14 02:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Calibri
Labug,

Going dark to mean means no contact, no reaching out, nothing. I was using the time as a mental break and regroup with a beginners mind, stop going down the same path etc.

Thoughts?


So stop the contact. If he contacts you be selective about how much of you, you put into the response. I'm not saying be a jerk, just be selective.

If a person really wants to be with another person, no contact won't change that.
Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/17/14 03:22 PM
Wow you are so early in this. Slow down, take some deep breaths. Let the dust settle. You're very much in fix-it mode.

Originally Posted By: Calibri
I believe him to be manipulative right now. Me, his parents, possibly his IC. I would agree that he may not realize what he's doing, but he started handling this the way he always has. Avoid avoid avoid. Now it's too big to avoid. I believe he's waiting on someone (other than me) to tell him what to do. Because he's never had to handle bailing himself out of a crisis. Someone's always done it for him. Which is why I think (partially) he's stalled where he is.

Lots of mind-reading here. We all manipulate, some more than others. He may be waiting for help or not. But the answer for you is the same.

Let him live his life.

Quote:

And if he has some issues like Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder, then he won't see anything the same way you see it. It would be good to determined that he has or not those kind of mental issues. It makes a world of difference if he is diagnosed and takes the correct medication. He becomes just normal again. The fact that he did start acting this way after his family reunion just show that it could be the trigger for all meltdown.


Quote:
I don't think he has bipolar, and neither does his IC, my IC, or our doctor. I (along wither everyone else) think he's bottled up way too much [censored] for 31 years, and it finally came spewing out. He's always controlled his anger, controlled his emotions, and I think something "broke" for a lack of better words and it's all coming out. I read something that said people who bottle up their feelings and anger finally reach a trigger point and everything comes out -- and when it does it's usually explosive, destructive and out of left field. I can attest to that. That's been the last three months at my house.

What significance does this have for you and your actions? I'm not saying it doesn't but try to put this in perspective.

Quote:
I think he wants someone to tell him what to do. Because he has no idea what's going on, because he's never dug deep within himself and identified the issues that he has. Does he want to be less moody and volatile - absolutely. This isn't a walk in the park for him. But if I tried to reframe it from his perspective, I would imagine he's looking for himself in all of this. Which is why the R is not a priority to him. And realistically, I know it shouldn't be. But I don't relish in the thought of him finding himself at the expense of me or our M.

Again, a lot of mind-reading.

But about your last sentance, really?

Think about that from a non-emotional perspective. You love this man, right?

Quote:
I don't think he wants to be anywhere near me, personally. Just from his actions and his words. But I'm in the middle of the trees and can't see the forest. I do think that I represent his failures and his perceived inferiority.

H has low self esteem from his childhood and dealing with his alcoholic M. I think he never had a chance to develop his self esteem because he was too busy dealing with the volatile nature of his mother, the house he grew up with, being a teen with the weird mother, etc. He's often articulated to me that he wishes that he could be like me, from a confidence standpoint as well as a conflict standpoint. He sees me as someone who has their life together, who doesn't face trials and tribulations (ha!) or if I have conflict, I generally take it head on and solve it. I believe his comparison of himself, to me, has made him feel worse about himself and our relationship. And I've tried to tell him, he can't compare himself to me - it doesn't work that way. But it's just fuel to the fire at this point.

He yelled at me, early on in all this, in a fit of rage, that he never had a voice in our relationship. This is his perception, but it's far from my truth. Any big decisions, I always talked with him about. Every time he has said no, I've respected his wishes. I always sought his input with everything from my own personal matters to our relationship matters. But what I think he's saying, is that he wanted to say more and didn't feel comfortable saying it -- because he was trying to please me. Or be a good husband. Which, I never asked for. He assumed that he had to modify his behavior to make ME happy. He's had a voice, all along, he just hasn't used it or realized until it exploded in his face that he needed to articulate more. For himself, not for me.

I know you're trying to make sense of all this but does it move YOU forward.

You want to fix him, you have the answers, this or that is what you would do...

Let it go. Hand his life back to him and let him solve his problems. He deserves that.

Quote:
I'm going to sound like a bratty teenager. But I've told him this. He doesn't care. Or, I should rephrase this to say -- I've told him this, but I don't know how much of the information other than I was to work on the M he is retaining.

Why did you have to tell him anything? Would you agree that ultimatums rarely ever work in the long run?

Quote:
I'm already getting time and space. He's not in any place where he wants to hear anything, if that makes sense? If I tell him that I'm going to give myself time to work on my own issues, he'll just say "ok" and not initiate conversation -- which is pretty much where we're at right now.

And that's bad because...?

Quote:
Again, I'm sounding like a bratty teenager -- but he isn't thinking of anyone or anything other than himself right now. Those are his own words. He knows that I'm struggling. But, it's not really making a (from my perception) impact on him. I get "I know this is hard on you, I'm sorry." And that's it.

So does he need to work on himself? From your description it sure sounds like it.

What kid of impact do you want to have on him?

Quote:
Exactly! And really? Why would he face his issues? What's his motivation? His parents are paying for him to live in a hotel, buying food, paying for his therapy. I have access to his pay check and I'm making sure that the mortgage and bills at our house get paid. I'm making sure the animals are taken care of. All he has to do is go to work and go to his hotel room and EVERYONE ELSE takes care of the messes behind him. While I realize this is not easy for him at all and he's in a dark place --- but, he's got a pretty sweet deal. All of the responsibilities are being handled by someone else, he isn't getting pressure from anyone, he doesn't have to do anything except go to work. And even that's optional. He could quit his job right now and his parents would continue to fund this.

Depression is never a sweet deal.

You can't control his parents. I have a son with metal illness and I'm sure a lot of people would have input in to how I'm not doing my job as a parent right.

All I can say is let it go. Allow him to face whatever he needs to face without pushing from you.

Quote:
don't know how to show him the fragile side? He's been with me 10 years. He's seen my cry and wracked with insecurities. He's seen me struggle with issues, he's seen me absolutely gutted by all of this. And honestly, I don't know if he would believe anything, because he has built me up as the big bad wolf in his head. And when I've tried to show humbleness, or fragility, or how I'm really feeling -- it's met with apathy or ambivalence. And then I get angry. And then we start the cycle round and round again.

Who do you want to be Calibri? Who are you? That's who you need to let him see, not someone created to get hi back but who you really are. Your authentic self.

Quote:
I know I need to STFU. And for the most part I've been doing it. But there's only so much that I can sit and bite my tongue before the blood starts pouring out of my mouth and I have to spit it out.

Why is that?

Quote:
I've said this in my response to TLEE -- but with communication -- it's now his rules, his way. And I don't know the rules because they change, daily, right along with his moods. He doesn't want to talk if he's tired. Or if he's in a bad mood. Or if he's not feeling it. Or if the sky is blue. He has boundaries in his head but he doesn't articulate them, but gets mad when I step over them -- not on purpose, but rather because I'm not aware of them.

Make your own rules. No contact. Get your act together, decide who you want to be in all this and then be it.

Drop your need to control. To be right (you sound like your mothering him. that's me being very honest)

You have the choice to get off the roller coaster. Don't let fear control you.
Originally Posted By: labug
Wow you are so early in this. Slow down, take some deep breaths. Let the dust settle. You're very much in fix-it mode.

I agree. I want to fix it. But I know that I can't fix it. But I still want to try and fix it anyway.



Originally Posted By: labug

What significance does this have for you and your actions? I'm not saying it doesn't but try to put this in perspective.

Loaded question -- I think. If he has bipolar, I don't know. Having lived with a bipolar parent, it's not a path that I'm sure I want to go down, which is hypocritical because I have just as equal of a chance of trigger bipolar. But that's what it is. But I don't think he's bipolar. The anger I can deal with, if the tools are there and he's willing to work on it.

Originally Posted By: labug

Again, a lot of mind-reading.

But about your last sentance, really?

Think about that from a non-emotional perspective. You love this man, right?

Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.

Originally Posted By: labug

I know you're trying to make sense of all this but does it move YOU forward.

You want to fix him, you have the answers, this or that is what you would do...

Let it go. Hand his life back to him and let him solve his problems. He deserves that.

No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.


Originally Posted By: labug

Why did you have to tell him anything? Would you agree that ultimatums rarely ever work in the long run?

Because I felt like he should know........? And no, ultimatums usually don't work. Ever.

Originally Posted By: labug

And that's bad because...?

Point taken.

Originally Posted By: labug

So does he need to work on himself? From your description it sure sounds like it.

Yes, he absolutely does need to work on himself. Otherwise it'll be the same story down the road for him, in his life.

Originally Posted By: labug

What kid of impact do you want to have on him?

A positive one. One that changes his life, but in a good way. One that makes him want to stay (if that's whats best for us both).


Originally Posted By: labug

You can't control his parents. I have a son with metal illness and I'm sure a lot of people would have input in to how I'm not doing my job as a parent right.

All I can say is let it go. Allow him to face whatever he needs to face without pushing from you.

No, the depression isn't at all a sweet deal, and that's not at all what I'm referencing, although I can see how it's inferred by the way I worded it. What I'm saying is that, he's not having to face responsibilities in life right now, because both his parents and I have shouldered the burden so that he doesn't have to. It's frustrating, that's all, being left behind to deal with it all, but it's the same for every left behind spouse, I imagine.

And I know I can't change or control his parents. I've known that for a LONG TIME. There's just alot of family dynamic there that contributes to this and it's.....frustrating. And hard.

Originally Posted By: labug

Who do you want to be Calibri? Who are you? That's who you need to let him see, not someone created to get hi back but who you really are. Your authentic self.

Ok, this is where I struggle. I have been (at least I believe) my authentic self the entire time of our relationship. Have I been my best authentic self? No, absolutely not. The last two years have been tough on me and therefore I've been less pleasant to deal with. I don't want to change the core of who I am. But I would like to be more compassionate, less hard, and less controlling. And, I have to admit, I'm having an issue with the control thing, although I realize that I have control tendencies. I never thought that I was controlling in our R, because it wasn't something that I was purposely doing. I never woke up and thought, "hey, I'm going to control H by doing this, that and the other." I'm having a really hard time accepting this and reflecting upon it. And trying to figure out how to change it.

Originally Posted By: labug

Why is that?


I've always spoken my mind about things. It's a habit that's tough to break. That's why it's hard for me to bite my tongue. Unfortunately, there's only so many times I can get railed on before I get fed up with it. Which is probably something else I can work on.
Originally Posted By: labug

Make your own rules. No contact. Get your act together, decide who you want to be in all this and then be it.

Drop your need to control. To be right (you sound like your mothering him. that's me being very honest)

You have the choice to get off the roller coaster. Don't let fear control you.


I absolutely feel like a mother some days. I don't like that role, yet I keep stepping into it, because of old patterns that come from both of us. That's something that HAS to stop. He felt like a caretaker, well, I felt like his mother. So, we both have roles that we didn't like.

Thank you labug for the perspective and the questions and observations. It's helping me with my journey. I appreciate your time and insight.
Labug,

I've been thinking about your post to me. I also went back and read some of your sitch. Very enlightening stuff.

And I came across this while doing some reading on control:

"Do you really want to deprive those you love of the benefits of learning from their own experiences? They too have a need to write their own story."

A lot of things clicked - today. Thank you for setting me on the path of where I need to focus.
Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/18/14 03:34 PM
Let's face reality and look at what you actually can control.

Quote:
Loaded question -- I think. If he has bipolar, I don't know. Having lived with a bipolar parent, it's not a path that I'm sure I want to go down, which is hypocritical because I have just as equal of a chance of trigger bipolar. But that's what it is. But I don't think he's bipolar. The anger I can deal with, if the tools are there and he's willing to work on it.

Why is it loaded?

Do you have a crystal ball? Are you qualified to diagnose your H? If not, let it all go. You don't need the anxiety of worrying about what ifs right now. You're borrowing trouble, complicating your life.

His mental health is his to deal with...and this is the hard part, or not.

Quote:
Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.
/quote]
So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.

Lovingly detach.

[quote]No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.

The bolded sentence, you don't know that to be true, he's just not doing it on your timeline. Give him a chance.

Think of this, every time you interfere in his process, he has to go back to square one. He can blame you for interfering, so again he's focusing on you as the culprit. If you're not around, he doesn't have you as a scapegoat.

Quote:
No, the depression isn't at all a sweet deal, and that's not at all what I'm referencing, although I can see how it's inferred by the way I worded it. What I'm saying is that, he's not having to face responsibilities in life right now, because both his parents and I have shouldered the burden so that he doesn't have to. It's frustrating, that's all, being left behind to deal with it all, but it's the same for every left behind spouse, I imagine.

And I know I can't change or control his parents. I've known that for a LONG TIME. There's just alot of family dynamic there that contributes to this and it's.....frustrating. And hard.

So stop shouldering the burden. Give it to who it truly belongs to. Face the reality of the situation.

I have to use these test question often, I learned them in AlAnon, "Whose problem is it?" and "Did anyone ask me for help?"

Doing these little practices is how you learn to let go.

It's only frustrating as long as you remain enmeshed in it.

Quote:
And, I have to admit, I'm having an issue with the control thing, although I realize that I have control tendencies. I never thought that I was controlling in our R, because it wasn't something that I was purposely doing. I never woke up and thought, "hey, I'm going to control H by doing this, that and the other." I'm having a really hard time accepting this and reflecting upon it. And trying to figure out how to change it.

None of us really want to be controlling, it's a mechanism we've learned to make our world seem safer. Why do you think you're controlling, where does that come from?

Use this time you have away from him to work on you. Sometimes we stay tied up in other people's problems to keep the focus off us. Let go of that and use this time as a gift to work on and heal you. Look your demons squarely in the eye, just like you'd wish your H to do.

Quote:
I've always spoken my mind about things. It's a habit that's tough to break. That's why it's hard for me to bite my tongue. Unfortunately, there's only so many times I can get railed on before I get fed up with it. Which is probably something else I can work on.

Yep!
Speaking your mind is one thing, being hypercritical and opinionated and calling it speaking your mind is another.I had the same problem. As I said, look those demons in the eye. Have no fear.

You can do this, you just have to decide to start.
Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/18/14 03:47 PM
Quote:
Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.

So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.

Lovingly detach.

Quote:
No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.


edited for clarity
Quote:

Why is it loaded?

Do you have a crystal ball? Are you qualified to diagnose your H? If not, let it all go. You don't need the anxiety of worrying about what ifs right now. You're borrowing trouble, complicating your life.

His mental health is his to deal with...and this is the hard part, or not.

It's a loaded questions for me, because I make it loaded. Having a dad with bipolar, and lots of family members with mental illness or depression - I see how destructive it is. I have this mindset that just because someone has problems, doesn't mean you give up on them. You help them, etc. It's a learned behavior from watching other family members interact with one another. But, I have a hang up about bipolar, just from having such a negative experience with it from my dad (who I learned to detach from years ago. Need to channel this). I didn't get to choose who my father was, but I did choose my spouse. And I don't know if I can live with someone who is bipolar - but that's neither here nor there, as you said. I doubt he is. And if he is, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

It just makes me feel like a dick. Having hang ups about it.

Quote:

So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.


I'm trying. I need to do a better job. And you're right, his issues aren't my issues. He's starting to come out of the fog and starting to admit that alot of what he spewed at me when he left......wasn't true. He isn't ready to elaborate yet, but it's a small step and a (tiny) hopeful step that we might move in the right direction -- now that I'm not being blamed for EVERYTHING that's wrong in his life.

I don't like yoga. It irritates me because it doesn't go fast enough, and I can't relax and then I get irritated because I can't relax. Hi there control issues -- I'll own up to that right now. I've never tried meditation -- I don't know how to do it correctly, if that makes any sense?

Quote:

Lovingly detach.
I realized the other day, that part of the reason I'm having trouble with detaching is I equate the detachment I have with my father (which is not loving at all, more business like) with the detachment I need to have with my H. Working on it.

Quote:

The bolded sentence, you don't know that to be true, he's just not doing it on your timeline. Give him a chance.

Think of this, every time you interfere in his process, he has to go back to square one. He can blame you for interfering, so again he's focusing on you as the culprit. If you're not around, he doesn't have you as a scapegoat.

I wish I had seen this before today. We had it out. Cheese less tunnels = convos with my H right now. Today's convo probably set us back a few weeks. Hoooray. But you know what he said to me, "I know this is frustrating for you, and I'm sorry that I'm not as far along as you would like me to be." Point taken from both of you --- I'm STFU.

Quote:

So stop shouldering the burden. Give it to who it truly belongs to. Face the reality of the situation.

I'm talking in terms of paying bills, taking care of the house, making sure our animals are taken care of. He's all "they're all animals, it's our house" when it comes to minor things. But when it comes time to figure out if there's an animal rooting around in the eves of the attic, or figuring out some behavioral issues with our animals, *crickets chirp*. I've had to shoulder the burden of taking care of everything in his absence. I can't put it back on him because he won't do it. But I get what you're saying.
Quote:

I have to use these test question often, I learned them in AlAnon, "Whose problem is it?" and "Did anyone ask me for help?"

So I've learned that I'm a fixer. Regardless of if I want to or not. This is a learned behavior. I resent people for having to fix things, because 9 times out of 10, I'm feel people should be fixing their own problems. But, H has yet to ask me to fix anything right now. So, I'm going to stop trying to fix it. And stop resenting him because he's not willing to work on it. We both need to work on ourselves to even have an opportunity to "fix" our relationship.

Good points. Very good points.


Quote:

None of us really want to be controlling, it's a mechanism we've learned to make our world seem safer. Why do you think you're controlling, where does that come from?

I know why I control things. It comes from my childhood. I've touched on it before, but I had a raw deal in my childhood. Along the way, the control is a defense mechanism to protect myself from being hurt - because I was hurt by so many people who should've protected me. I felt and do feel by controlling things in my life, that I can have a "say" in what happens to me, and I can prevent negative things from happening to me. (Life lesson learned -- you can't control anything but yourself.) I also have a fear that if H and I get divorced, that no one will love me. Because I'm a tough gal to love. I have crazy family members, I could go crazy too, I'm a smart ass, tough, stubborn, opinionated woman who wants what she wants. Add on to the fact that I don't like to cook. I don't view myself as a catch. Sure, I'll talk myself up, but deep down, I don't see how anyone else could love me, if my H couldn't/can't.

And that would be my issue. In a nut shell. I've challenged myself in my personal journal to come up with 10 things that I like about myself. One month in....I'm at two. That says ALOT. What, exactly, I'm still pondering. But it speaks volumes.

Quote:

Yep!
Speaking your mind is one thing, being hypercritical and opinionated and calling it speaking your mind is another.I had the same problem. As I said, look those demons in the eye. Have no fear.


I am guilty, guilty, guilty of being hypercritical. That's something I'm actively working on. I identified that early on. I don't necessarily see being opinionated as a bad thing, but if my opinions are being used against someone, then I suppose that's where it can become problematic.

I do have fear. Fear in the sense that I don't want to be divorced. Fear in the sense that I don't want to lose my H. Fear that this won't work out and then what? I know, realistically, that getting a divorce isn't the end of my life. I know that I can do this without my H. I know that if we don't continue our lives together, that I had ten great years with him, with a lifetime of memories that I wouldn't trade for the world - and that will always stay with me. But I have fear, because I have something to lose. Does that make sense. I know I can't have fear, yet I seem to be paralyzed.
Quote:

You can do this, you just have to decide to start.

I am. Today. As soon as I stop boohooing from writing my post.

Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. I needed this and I hope that you'll continue to whack me upside the head when I need it. Which may be alot.
Posted By: labug Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/18/14 11:48 PM
So it sounds like yoga is just what you need. smile Learn to slow your mind and thoughts.
Posted By: gan Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/19/14 03:31 AM
This is such great conversation! Calibri, I relate to your sitch a lot. I agree with Labug that yoga and mindfulness could be good for you. As for learning mindfulness, I use an app on my phone (Headspace). There are dozens of others but I found this one to be a great place to start.
Hi ganb8te,

I just did my first headspace. And after I got over the initial wtf is this this is too new age for me, I actually relaxed. It almost put me to sleep. Much better relaxation naturally vs anxiety medicine.

Going to try it again tomorrow. Sure beat out hot yoga.
Posted By: gan Re: Angry WAH blames me for everything....... - 12/19/14 11:12 AM
He he. Glad to hear it! I ended up taking out a subscription I liked it so much.
"Because I'm a tough gal to love. I have crazy family members, I could go crazy too, I'm a smart ass, tough, stubborn, opinionated woman who wants what she wants. Add on to the fact that I don't like to cook. I don't view myself as a catch. Sure, I'll talk myself up, but deep down, I don't see how anyone else could love me, if my H couldn't/can't."

Ok, I said this two days ago, and I'm going to call myself out. This is BS. I am a great catch. I'm a good looking, smart, fun, funny, adventurous, passionate, creative, dedicated woman. When I love, I love with everything that I have. I'm devoted and loyal. No. I don't cook. Yes, I'm a pain in the ass. Yes, I am flawed. But I am absolutely worth it. Absolutely.

[censored] that negative thinking.

Carry on, Friday.
© DivorceBusting.com