Hi, new to this forum and am in need of some advice, so here goes.
My wife separated from me almost 2 months ago and thinks divorce is inevitable. She is currently living with a guy friend until she “gets on her feet.”
My wife and I met in MAR ‘11 and married in MAR ‘12. I am in the Army and we were both in failing marriages when we first met each other. I understand we didn’t meet under the greatest circumstances, but sometimes you just cant help how you meet. Our first year of marriage, I was in Afghanistan and we didn’t have too many issues.
I came home from Afghanistan in OCT ’12 and shortly after, things started going south. Bottom line, I became too focused on work- my schedule would be from roughly 530am-830pm literally every night (not by choice). I brought my work problems home with me and my wife suffered for it. My wife did not work or go to school, and did not have many friends so everyday she would wait for me to come home. I know this is unhealthy.
I would come home stressed and would rarely spend time with her. All the little things I used to do to win her over stopped. I would get angry, break things, throw a fit, and basically acted like a child and made her feel insignificant because when I got mad, everything in the house became MINE MINE MINE because I was the bread winner in the house. Nevertheless our marriage survived this year.
I left for Ranger School in JUN ‘14 and was gone for 90days and had little to no communication with my wife (not by choice, school is designed this way). While I was gone, once again, my wife did not have a job, school, or friends to talk to, so she was cooped up in the house for 90days with nothing to do and not knowing when I would come home.
The day I graduated this school, my wife told me she was leaving me. She said “I love you but I’m not in love with you, that she is tired of supporting someone who treats her like crap, and that she needs to go out and find herself again.” She says she is so tired of feeling alone and that love isn’t enough to keep her here. She left 2 weeks later.
We text everyday, and for the past week (work week, not weekends) she calls me every morning on her way to work just to talk- this is new, she didn’t do this until recently. She’s said she misses talking to me, that she wants me to text her more.
I am doing 180 and it seems to be working to an extent. Issue I have is with the internal struggle of...my wife is living with another guy for another 1½ months until she goes to an internship in mid-January at which point she will be leaving his place. She insists that he is “just a friend,” but for obvious reasons I have doubts.
What advice do you guys have for me in this situation and is this even possible to try and save this marriage? I am seeing a therapist, continuing to work out and basically living my life but its pretty empty without my wife. How do I even “compete” with someone that sees her every single day, when she only calls me during the work week? We live in 2 separate states now because of an Army move, so it is extremely difficult to even try and see her…
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Question for you all…
I feel like I am a doormat for my WAW…She calls when she wants (usually every morning on her way to work), texts when she wants, and responds to my texts when she wants to…meanwhile she carries on an EA with OM- still won't admit to it, and I have stopped asking about it.
I know that I should "back off" and not pursue her, and I haven't. I rarely, if ever, initiate texts or phone calls with her and it seems to be working to an extent.
But I feel like I am always there for my wife when she wants me to be. She knows I always have my phone on me, required for work, so its pretty easy to answer her back. I know I should always be friendly when she talks to me and I am, but how do I stop this…one way street thing where she is always 100% in control of when we talk and how long we talk, either over phone or text.
When she says something to me and I respond and she doesn't answer me until the next day, it gets pretty frustrating. Or I will completely not say anything to her all day, and she just says "Thanks for talking to me while I was at work today!" And I have no idea what to say back, IF ANYTHING? But how do i do this without being cold or angry?
Welcome to the board and sorry u find yourself here. First read DB and Sandis 37 rules. DB is about changing yourself and hopefully as you makes those changes sometimes a M can be saved. Stop being so available to her. Hard thing to do since you werent available due to work. Put the anger aside. Thats what got me here.
Dont answer text or calls right away. The more you persue her the more she will run away. Post often so you come out of moderation. It is important that you do things to get a life GAL. Do things you always wanted to do, look happy, if you speak to her sounds as if you are on top of the world.
To help get more information, I need to ask questions. Have you read Divorce Remedy? If not, make that your priority. You said you were doing 180's. Can you explain more?
Have you done anything to work on your issues with anger? How could she feel anything would be different if she returned? She is not going to want to go back into what she left.
Did you divorce your previous W in order to M this one? Was she M to someone when you met?
There is hope, but you really have to work on yourself. Don't get focused about competing with OM. That is a mistake many men make. It is not about "winning" your W back from OM. It is about chainging yourself and the issues that resulted in a separation.
@Rick. Thanks for your insight. I have put the anger aside- I call a few close friends when I get angry so she never ever sees that side of me. All she sees when we talk on the phone/text is the "happy" side. As you are more than aware, it is gut-wrenchingly difficult but it seems to be working. Depending on the day I usually try and wait 30minutes or so before I respond to her. I guess it just gets frustrating when we are texting back and forth or talking for 30-45minutes and then all of a sudden she just stops replying for like 6hours and its like ….and... ball is back in her court somehow..not sure what to do in these situations to beat her to the punch in saying goodbye first, especially over text?
@Sandi. Thank you as well, I've been following quite a few of your responses and I definitely think you offer quite a bit as a previous WAW. I have not read DR, I am almost done with DB and will switch to DR when done unless you think DR is better? 180s I've been doing really follow the general DB rules. I never initiate text/call her first, don't say I Love You, always act happy (insanely difficult), always try and empathize with whatever she's doing, and in the meantime am continuing to workout everyday, hanging out with friends, picked up hunting as a new hobby, and am trying to GAL.
I've been going to a therapist for the anger issues, seems like it is working and have identified ways to…calm down when really pissed off. Also talking to one of the DB coaches here. Also something small, but learning to not get irritated (or at least show her) when she just decides she's had enough of talking/texting for the night and just chooses to either not reply or reply 6hours later. As my coach put it, show her that I'm more "Easy-going" now instead of angry and controlling. My issue with that is, like I asked Rick, how do i beat her to the punch and not be a doormat to her when I have no idea how quickly if at all she'll respond to me? She always initiates the conversation whether phone/text and has been doing that for the past 2 months. There hasn't been a day where she doesn't initiate and say something to me. But I feel like every time she stops responding, the ball is back in her court and she controls everything. Is there anyway to turn this back into a 2-way street instead of a 1-way?
I did not divorce my previous W to marry this one, we were already getting a divorce and it just so happens that i met my W at the same time. She was in the exact same boat, already getting a divorce, just so happened to meet me.
I hear what you are saying about not focusing on the OM, although it obviously is extremely hard to not let my thoughts wander…My question to you is, most of the people here at least live in the same city/state as their H/W so they can make excuses to see each other, kids, work, etc. I'm in a different state than my W. What advice do you have as far as showing changes to her via calling/texting that I can't do in person? She won't be able to see the progress of working out, always looking my best, "all smiles", etc because I never get the chance to see her. She was here 3weeks ago for a few days to get some stuff and we went out and had a lot of fun..she made it a point to say that she really enjoyed her time and that it was really nice to be able to laugh with each other again. Shortly after that, is when all these phone calls started. I feel like seeing each other is where people "make there money" and can show their H/W changes they made. How do I do that when we don't live in the same state?
I am not sure of your situation but are you back together with your previous H after being a WAW? If so, is there anything in particular that he did/did not do that really turned it around for you? Thanks.
Hey guys, one more quick question for you all. I know like most people, I am impatient and want things to be happening now. I guess how much contact with my W is "normal" if there is such a thing in these circumstances?
I read a lot of peoples posts and it seems like most communicate through email/text and every so often talk on the phone? I know every situation is different but my W calls me on her way to work most days and then we'll text during the day, but obviously sometimes its a lot more, and sometimes its a lot less.
I know I should be, and I am, grateful that we talk as much as we do, but it seems like we get along fine? We don't argue at all, and are usually just light and friendly when we talk on the phone/text. I think its still too early now but at what point do I start initiating phone calls? Or…how do you know when to progress…to the next stage, whatever that may be. Again, I know I am being impatient, I am just trying to get a grasp on "what next" once we've been talking and communicating for awhile (not yet).
Well here's another day and my thoughts are wandering so I'll just let them out and not bottle it up…going off my last post, I wonder if there is a thing of "too much contact." We've been separated for 2 months now, and she has texted me every single day, usually multiple times a day about nothing, just superficial, friendly stuff. Since she started working 2 weeks ago, she will usually call me on her way to work and we just talk about anything, nothing serious. This was completely out of the blue, no idea why she started doing this.
But then what this is doing is setting a pattern, and I am starting to have expectations which I know I shouldn't…I am starting to EXPECT her to text me everyday and am starting to EXPECT her to call me on her way to work…but when she doesn't call, like last Friday and today, I start to wonder…ok WHY is she not calling me today, why havent I heard from her, what did i do, is she losing interest…etc etc..days like Friday and today bring me back to reality..that she still isn't my "W"
When she texts often, or calls on her way to work, it feels like I have my W back. I used to call her almost everyday when I drove to work. So this is nothing unusual for us, only she's the one calling now. But when she doesn't, reality sets in and I realize that we are still far from reconciling…she is still in the…whatever i want to do I will do mindset so if she just doesn't feel like talking today, I can't help that and I cant or will not be the one to initiate. Because we talk as much as we do, I wonder if she hasnt even had time to miss me? Or if I should be happy that we're communicating well?
A little more background on me and my W…like most LBHs I had no idea anything was wrong. Quite frankly, I thought things were ok. I knew it was a little rough with work and stuff for a while but for the past 6-7months, I thought things were going ok. Probably because I got what I wanted so I had no idea. But my W and I were seriously talking about having kids before I left this time for 3 months, and all her posts on Facebook and what not were all 100% positive. We didn't fight, didn't argue, didn't really have too many of those negatives since almost the beginning of the year! Then I left, and her world came crashing down. I was only gone for 3 months. I've been gone for 1 year before, but this time was different…this time I wasn't allowed to call her all we had was snail mail…and I come home and…BD. She told me the other day that she felt like I had died, that someone you are so used to seeing, or at least talk to every day, was just ripped out of your life for 90days (i was only supposed to be gone for 60, got extended). She told me when she first left, she has so much resentment towards me and my work because she was never allowed to have her own life. This confuses me. Yes, the Army is hard and my W has had to make more sacrifices than the average W (I've been gone more than I've been home in our 5 years). BUT, my W CHOSE not to stay at her jobs, she CHOSE not to seriously commit to going back to school. She dabbled in some jobs and took a few classes, but never made the actual effort to CONTINUE doing those things?
Quite honestly I feel like I have done well, at least in the past 3-4 weeks. I am not initiating any calls/texts, am seeing a counselor for my anger issues, reading DB, done some SERIOUS reflecting on myself and what i did wrong in our marriage, and am still working out and taking care of the house and dogs. Nothing wrong with work either.
I feel like my W on the other hand, is still living in "fantasy land" where she thinks she has it made. Actually, whats worse is, my W thinks she is struggling when in reality she isn't. She doesn't pay for anything except her own food and is currently still living with that "guy friend" until mid JAN. IMO, she hasn't had time to "reflect" on anything or do any soul-searching because she has this distraction that she is living with…I know I can't change this or tell her she needs to do this or that…but its just on my mind.
For now…list of what I did wrong in the marriage…at least just the past year. Before this, I didn't allow myself to show these things but over time, as the stresses built for me, I didn't handle it properly. I just don't know how to show this when I'm not living with her
1. Too critical- I am a perfectionist and when things weren't done the way I wanted it done, I let her know it
2. Picked EVERY battle- Going off of the previous comment, I am used to having things done MY way at work and when its not, I fix it immediately. I learned now, i have to PICK AND CHOOSE my battles, not fight everyone of them.
3. Didn't communicate well with my W- I complained when things were rough at work (working 5am-9pm every night does the trick), but never told my W what actually bothered me, I just bitched about it. I never told her that it has NOTHING to do with her and what I feel for her
4. Didn't solve problems with my W- She wanted time and space during fights and I wanted to fix it and fix it now. So we'd fight until we both got tired, slept/had sex, and the fight was over. Small things built up over time
5. Didn't look at MYSELF for why things were off, only looked at her- DB taught me this one..should have asked MYSELF what I am doing/not doing for my W to be sad or not wanting to have sex as much versus asking what SHE is doing wrong
6. Stopped doing the small things- I used to bring my W home flowers, starbucks, random crap when I got home from work. When my stresses started piling up, I stopped doing these things because I was tired and wanted to go home, not drive 15minutes to get her something…i wish i took that extra time now…
7. Spent more time together OUTSIDE- we had date night every Friday. But it was always just going to dinner. For some couples, that works. For me and my W, being 28/24, we needed to go OUT, hiking, camping, fishing, ANYTHING…this is how we met, doing this stuff, not sitting around at a restaurant.
8. I make an effort to tell my W throughout the day how wonderful she is, not just in the morning/at night- My W understood that I work late involuntarily. But all I had to do was just say "hey thinking about you" or "hey i love you" during the day to let her know she's on my mind. Some couples barely say I love you more than once a week, and I said it 2-3 times a day minimum. BUT, I understand now that MY W needs that a lot more…
9. I communicate to my W and ask for 30minutes to unwind when I get home- I just need to shower and just BREATHE after 16hour work days EVERYDAY. My W, being a stay-at home wife, would just bum-rush the door and be like HEY YOUR HOME!!!!!!! and I'm like OMG IM TIRED…sounds funny but its not…
10. My W needs an interest outside of me- she does not NEED to work, I bring home enough $, but for her own sanity she needs to do SOMETHING, work/school/hobby so that she has a life outside of me..and when I come home she has something to talk about going on in HER life, not just…me saying I hate work and I am tired
11. Supporting my W in her decisions and pushing her (to an extent) to finish school or go to work- Everyone needs some sort of self-worth. Because my W didn't work and was not actively trying to finish her Bachelors, she always felt..inferior when we would go out with friends because they all had degrees and they were "educated." I didn't know that she felt this strongly about it until recently but thats where I failed again. I don't care if she has a degree, I didn't marry her for that…but if that's how she felt, I should have told her over and over that I married her because of HER and not "what she brings to the table." This has always been a point of contention because my W never thought she brought anything to the M…and I always got confused WHY? I don't care if she didn't bring home money, didn't have a bachelors/masters, etc etc…I married her because she's gorgeous and I fell in love with her personality..who cares how much money she brought in? But again, I failed to continuously communicate this to her when she felt bad about it, and I will say that she failed to communicate it to me (or at least I didn't think so)
Sorry this has been a rant and rave…but I think it helps. If you guys actually take the time to read this, you're all awesome. I'd love the feedback
Does anyone else here get the urge to try and rescue or "save" their WAS? Pretty ironic considering all us LBHs obviously did our part to wreck our on Ms…Just had to ask my W to pay her part of our credit card bill…She didn't fight me about it or anything but made a comment about her probably not going to use our credit card anymore because its hard for her to pay it all at once vs just using her debit card…thing is, i know how much she has in her checking acct and she owes more on our credit card than she has in her checking…so…she is going to have to pull from her savings to pay off the credit card.
Its just weird how she thinks she is "struggling" right now, when in reality she's still drinking from our financial faucet. But I won't and can't let her fall on her face because she'll resent me for the rest of our life. More importantly, because as her H who still loves her more than anything, I won't let her fall. All I want to do is jump in and say "Hey babe, don't worry about this, I know you are struggling with finances, I got this." But I know that she will never learn if I do that…she'll just keep spending how she is spending. Its just difficult to stand by and do nothing and watch someone you love "suck" with money troubles, even though she caused them herself.
It also just kinda…ruins the conversation or the mood for the day…who wants to talk about budgeting or money for fun when you're going through this crap already?
I am not going to bail her out, i know she needs to learn and needs to figure this out on her own… She was fine with money whenever I was gone, but a lot of that was because she had me in the back of her head saying do this or don't do that. Personally, I know I need to loosen the financial purse strings a little, but right now, all i want to do is help her and its hard not to.
Its one of those days…and this forum is the best place to vent/get advice. Although I feel like i am going to be destroyed for even thinking of saving my WAW in this situation
Still looking for some feedback but to go along one of my last posts, I think my WAW might be losing interest, or is at least seeming to detach more herself (probably mind reading right now). 3 weeks ago, she randomly started calling me out of the blue, twice a day before and after work, and would text me all day. 2 weeks ago, she would call just once and would still text, though less. This week, i barely hear from her at all- she says she's sorry she hasn't been calling that she's just busy/stressed from work…
Either way, just sounds like she's losing interest. I feel like my W and I are at the point where we can talk to each other just fine. We never argue, don't bring up the M and are really friendly. But this is the time where i think most people would see if they could see each other on the weekend or just meet for lunch, and begin initiating that face to face contact. Because we don't live in the same state, we can't do that. Seems like everything is just kinda…stagnant and not really progressing at this point. Any advice on what to do?
Ive been reading a lot of peoples threads and something Sandi2 said kinda hit home…that the WAW needs to experience a personal loss before she will regret the A/OM. Right now it seems like I am enabling her cake-eating, she gets emotional, maybe physical, from OM, and she gets emotional/financial from me. Not really sure how to proceed at this point. I don't know if its smart to avoid her calls/texts (i usually wait at least 30min before responding), because we get along fine so why avoid it? We're basically pretty good friends at this point, but the M isn't going anywhere. Thoughts? Thanks!
Stay strong brother.
I can relate. Right off the bat it seems like my WAW had already moved on. She hardly initiated contact (once maybe twice a month). Goes out all the time, and is living life as if nothing is even out of the ordinary. Meanwhile I can hardly even function. Who knows? I think WAW's are hurting as well and are dealing with it in a different manner. I don't have much advice besides hanging in there.
I do suggest venting on here first as opposed to your significant other though. Sometimes it can put things into perspective before you put your foot in your mouth with her.
I think it's natural to want to save a WAS in some aspects, depending on the stitch.
I'm having a hard time keeping myself from wanting to fix or save my WAH. He's in the middle of a depression and I just want to swoop in and fix things. But he has to figure it out for himself. Just like your wife is going to have to figure things out. If she doesn't want to be in the relationship, she has to figure out how to be on her own two feet.
I would encourage you to have a discussion about finances sooner rather than later. It's better to have it, imo, while you both are getting along, rather than when things are nasty.
First, just noticed I'm off moderation so SCORE! Night's looking better already.
@TFWNOGF- Thanks for the feedback, can't help but notice our ages and timelines are almost identical so I'll be reading up on your sitch in a second. I definitely agree, and thats why I spend so much time here, that I vent here or get advice here first before saying anything to my W. I'm sure our WAW's are hurting in their own way, but that's something that we will rarely see- my W has "got emotional" on me twice in 2 months.
@Calibri- You're absolutely right. Just like your H, my W has to figure this out herself, but its hard to stand by and do nothing when it seems like the answer is so clear cut. Then again, I'm the "fix it" type of guy…which obviously hasn't worked too well in my M.
At what point do you try a different technique in terms of communicating with your W/H? My W has gone from…
1st month of S- Minimal texting (she initiates)
2 weeks ago- Calls everyday twice a day and texts during the week (she initiates)
1 week ago- Calls once a day, some texting in the day (she initiates)
This week-No calls, Minimal texting. She says she's working at a different location this week and is stressed and says she's sorry this hasn't been a good week.
Until this point, I usually let her initiate and have backed off almost completely. It seemed to be working but now it..died down again.
Option 1: Should I continue just backing off and letting her initiate, even if she doesn't say anything for a few days? Not sure if this is just going to make her lose interest
Option 2: I initiate a text here and there even if she doesn't say much- My DB Coach told me that its not a bad idea to initiate a friendly text every other day or so that just lets my W know that I'm thinking about her, but i don't require a response from her. This suggestion was also during the week that my W was all about communicating…
I realize that for some people here, a few days without saying much to their WAS is NOTHING, but obviously every situation is different. My WAW seems to enjoy friendly communication and at one point was telling me to increase how much I talk to her. But now that she's backed off, should I back off as well? I always was confused on how much contact should I have with my WAW...
So this whole separation thing is really tapping into my patience reserves that I didn't even know I had…but I suppose that's a growing point in and of itself since I am an extremely impatient person…
This is really just to vent. She texts me this morning about random crap as usual, nothing important and then just continues to choose not to say anything the rest of the day. She's done this before, where she "one-texts" me, looking for me to say something, and I'll reply and then she just goes silent. It is extreeeemeelllyy irritating..Kinda like well why do you even bother saying anything if you aren't going to reply back to your own question? I suppose its one of her moods…and just gotta roll with it.
Well, time for a run.
T-
I'm not going to call myself an expert, but I've read enough threads where I think I can say that you have to be careful about sandi's rules and understand that they don't necessarily apply to every situation. In your example, your W left after basically having no interaction with you for 90 days and feeling ignored. She's also outright comemented about you not initiating contact with her. I fear that trying to follow the rules about not pursuing/no contact may not be the right strategy for YOU personally to follow because that is just "more of the same" - the 180 would be to show her attention and that you care, get in touch with her for no particular reason, some of the things you mentioned you used to do but stop doing (little gifts, etc.). Again, not an expert so I hope sandi or someone else will come correct me if I'm way off base, but sometimes the "rules" don't exactly apply.
KG, thanks for the reply. I definitely agree with what you are saying about the NC in my situation. I know Sandi's rules are not hard fast truths, just guidelines. I follow them for the most part, situation dependent.
I am just at the point where my WAW is just..all over the place and I don't know what to do. As I've pointed out, some days she is all about communicating and blatantly asks why I havent texted her. Other days, she doesn't respond when I do reach out to her. I feel like its a lose-lose because I have no idea what her mood is so I don't know if I should continue to let her reach out to me or try and initiate contact?
This whole week has been rough. Barely any contact from W. She calls me yesterday and says sorry this hasn't been a good week, training for her job at a new location and she's stressed because her day goes from 530am-6pm. I validated her, said don't worry about it and that I understand she's stressed. What I really wanted to say to her was…"NOW YOU GET IT? TRY WORKING FROM 5am-9pm EVERYDAY and coming in on weekends. NOW YOU SEE WHY I WAS SO IRRITABLE ALL THE TIME?" But I resisted the urge, always has been a fault of mine to compare her life to mine. In all honesty, I can see that it is still a very long day for her.
Probably going to have to delete or stop going on FB…W says she's busy at work all day this week and can't text much, yet she goes on FB on her phone all the time and talks to OM….wonderful.
Other than that, tried to GAL this week or some version of it, spent $1000 on myself and bought a crap ton of new clothes, new hunting rifle, and new surround sound system for the TV. You know you're sad when you spend that much money on yourself and you really just think the whole time, "man, the W and I could have had so much fun with this money…" yea…
This whole experience, if you want to call it that, has really made me see things from the W's perspective. How being gone all the time, not knowing when I would come home keeps her awake. How she tells me that ambien, nyquil and some combination of other sleep meds never kept her asleep and she constantly woke up at 2am just in tears because I was gone. It has really made me see the faults that I had as a H and really what is a priority in my life. Now that my career is rolling full-steam ahead, I find that i am still just completely crushed and just mope…nothing in this world is more important than my W and I could give 2 sh*ts about my career if it meant getting her home. Breaks my heart when my W told me before she left "Do you really think I cared if you finished Airborne School? Ranger School? Do you really think I cared if you didn't make as much money as you do? NO BECAUSE I LOVE YOU FOR YOU, NOT YOUR CAREER. I would have stayed by you no matter what if you just showed me you loved me"
To be honest, in a way i am thankful i am going through this experience- you have no idea how hard it is for me to say that. I never would have understood the importance of looking at yourself before blaming someone else, how much your spouse needs their own life and how important it is to not be co-dependent on each other for happiness. I can without a doubt say that I have become a much better person, much more understanding and PATIENT person for having gone through all this.
I only wish that I could actually have the opportunity to show my W these changes…so much I want to say to her, so much I want to share with her…all these new hobbies, GAL, W has no idea about because we always talk about her and she rarely asks what i did.
Something I have been trying to figure out how to change in myself is…not to be so emotional…my W has always said that she is the guy in the M because I am always the one getting angry, crying, throwing retarded fits. She says because I am always the one that is sad, it leaves no room for her to be sad and she never has the ability to let her guard down because then both of us would just be in tears.
I do understand that, I really do. Sometimes I need to just kick myself in the face and Ranger the eff up. But what I want to say to her is…i have to be a certain way at work, the rock, the calm, rationale, kick you in your teeth if you screw up person because..what soldier will follow a leader who is emotional and ultra sensitive? So when I get home…I'm tired of being that way. I want to let my guard down and just be normal to my W. And most importantly, there is no one on earth that can ever humble me enough and just break me like my W because I care about her that much. So when she's upset or angry at me, i get super sad because…my W is mad or angry at me…I guess thats why right now, it is even more important for me to show her that I am not sad or just an emotional wreck right now, even though I am…because if i show that, its just "more of the same" and she will never show me her emotional side because like when we were living together, if I show that side, she shows her "tough side."
guess I just answered my own question.
One idea is to keep that social media connection open, because that could show her your changes without having to directly contact her. Post pictures of your new hobbies, changes, etc. If you don't want to see what SHE'S doing, you can unfollow her so her updates don't show up in your feed, but still be her friend so that she in theory would see your updates. You just have to be strong enough to not click on her actual profile to see her posts if you don't want to see what's happening there.
What about your first M? What happened there? What did you learn from that? Were you a WAH?
KGirl, I have thought about that, and just posting stuff on FB because its an easy way for her to see things like you said. Part of me feels thats…slightly desperate since I rarely ever go on FB anymore and idk if she'll view it that way?
First M…really a M that wasn't supposed to happen. It just seemed like the "next step" when I really wasn't even wanting or ready for it. I wasn't a WAH, ex-wife filed for D when I was never home and always somewhere training. Hmm seems to be a common theme. It never would have lasted, and my biggest regret is that we let ourselves get married when I wasn't ready for it.
Interesting question though, looking back I actually see one big mistake that I carried over into my 2nd M. I still had a temper and was very controlling in the sense of, everything always had to be MY WAY. To be honest, I remembered that when I got M the second time, and even told my W I had a temper. But I actually attributed that to…"I never cared about my 1st W that much, and when I found the right girl, I'd treat her like a Princess and my temper/control issue wouldn't be a problem." Pretty backwards way of thinking, but it actually worked for the first couple years. I didn't have any of those issues with my current W because she does mean a lot more to me. But I guess when things get rough, you slip into your old habits again. Which is why I am glad I am going to IC to fix this issue.
Well, busy but stressful week coming up. Movers will be here tomorrow thru Wednesday to pack up the house- moving to Texas this week, thanks Army. I'm on the fence about it as far as whether I am excited or not. There's quite a bit of stuff I want to keep/start doing in Texas, whether its hunting or riding horses so that's gonna be nice.
But I know its going to be emotionally taxing on me. Moving into the house that the W and I picked out together. We actually were not supposed to even get it, I got a call out of the blue 3 weeks ago saying that its available if I want it so I took the offer. Packing up the house here is difficult, too many memories so its probably a good thing to be leaving it. Kinda strange to be moving and making the drive by myself. We've moved 5 times in 6 years, and this is the first one I'll be making alone so I'll get some quality time with my dogs. Quite honestly I don't even know if my W knows I'm leaving in 3 days since she never cares to talk about anything but herself.
Still debating on whether or not to begin changing techniques on communicating with the W. Seems like she is losing interest as her calls/texts are getting less and less frequent this month. Things dropped off just as quickly as they picked up so I don't know. I've rarely been the one to initiate things so I'm not sure if she's waiting on me since she's always the one reaching out? Or I contemplate on selectively replying back to her, if at all. Your thoughts?
On another note I've made the decision to stop financially supporting my W if she doesn't move out of OM's apartment-she's been there 2 months. Initially she said she would leave after she gets 2 paychecks from her job, and she's just gotten her 2nd check. We haven't had this conversation since the 1st week she was gone but by continuing to support her financially I am only enabling her cake-eating.
Now that she has reached her own goal of getting 2 paychecks, it's about that time to revisit that finances issue. I have been exceptionally patient, like everyone else here, but this is "my boundary." There is no reason to continue supporting her financially when she now has a job, and can move out.
Here's my issue. My W does not make enough $ to cover everything on her own if she tried to get her own place without my help. She can't cover her phone, insurance, car payment, rent, utilities etc etc. So what am I supposed to do?
On the one hand, if I continue helping her financially and she just continues to live at OM's apartment, I am literally enabling their relationship (she still denies it, they're "just friends").
On the other hand, if I cut her off financially, she is almost forced to stay at OM's apartment because she doesn't have the $ to move out.
Only thing I can come up with is that I'll continue helping her financially if and only if she moves out? It's an ultimatum, which I'd have to somehow word very carefully, but what other choice do i have?
My other problem with this is that it is very difficult to get promoted in the field my W is currently working, and will more than likely take 3-5 years before she starts making any kind of good money. How long am I and should I support her if she knows that she's not going to make enough $ to support herself but is still working this job?
I used to push her to go back to school and finish her degree so that she can start her own career but she's always been wishy washy on that. Now that we're separated, she thinks that she needs a job in order to support herself, which she's right, but she doesn't make enough $ because she's not working a "career-type" job so I'm still supporting her. Your thoughts? I'm completely lost on this.
To me it's clear cut: she left you, you stop supporting her financially.
Stop supporting her financially. Not only b/c it's the right thing to do, but she will lose respect for you as a potential H if you keep paying for her A and she's living with OM. If she can't afford something... it's her problem to fix.
Mozza, HP, thanks for your replies. I agree with you both. After speaking with my DB coach this morning, I was advised to basically go about it in a way where I get my W to say those things but I steer the conversation in that direction, so I don't come off controlling/even more as the bad guy.
I see the conversation going like this, if she decides that she's not going to her internship in JAN
W: I'm not going to the internship, etc etc etc
Me: Do you think you will be moving out soon?
W: I'm not sure, I'm stressed from work, not really sure if I want to deal with the stress of finding my own place etc etc
Me: Where do you see this going financially for us?
W: I'm not sure…(or some other wavering reply)
Me: What do you think is fair in this situation because we agreed that the money I'm giving you was supposed to be to help you get your own place so you can be independent and get on your feet?
W:------------
Me: I don't see me being able to continue supporting you financially as long as you continue to stay at OM's apartment.
Thoughts? I know its not as…harsh, as simply saying "I'm cutting you off" but I'm trying to let her draw the line in the sand and I simply steer her that way…
On another note, DB coach advised me to "match" my W in how much she contacts me and don't let her always be the first one to initiate because she says she may be waiting for you to reach out to her every now and then. As long as we are remaining friendly, there's no reason not to try initiating texts with her. We will see how it goes…it's hard not to think that the reason W isn't calling or texting as much this past week because her R with OM is escalating…
Also attempting to see W before I start making my drive for Texas…DB coach recommended I use an excuse like "Hey do you need me to bring you X, Y, Z because the weathers getting colder…" Trying to keep PMA about this but preparing myself for it not to happen. It's really difficult to not be in the same state, much less the same city as W because it puts so much pressure on the 1 day of seeing her..instead of "hey lets grab lunch or lets go walk the dogs" it comes off more…"i have 3 days off, let me buy a plane ticket to go see you, make sure you have those same days off…"
Any ideas or previous experience of how to make this work better when you're not even in the same state, please share! Otherwise, its just texts and periodic phone calls...
If I left my H I wouldn't expect financial support. But that's just me.
I would change your stance of "i don't see me being able to support you......." to "I will not help you financially while you continue to stay at OM apartment." Know what you told me about enabling my H? I'm back over here reminding you as well. :-)
A vet might have better thoughts.
I would match contact. And try reaching out -- if you haven't done that in the past -- see if it works. Sometimes you have to try different methods before you find ones that work.
If you try to see W before you leave, be prepared for her to reject it. You don't want to come off as controlling or trying to fix the situation.
Hang in there -- and good luck with your move. Somedays I wish I could move. So many memories in our house --- H proposed to me on our front porch. I feel like I'm haunted somedays.
Hey Calibri, always nice to hear from you-thanks for your insight. You're right in your wording of not supporting her financially anymore. I was thinking about that when I wrote it, and it sounds weak. Your line is much stronger so I'm going to go with that.
Quite honestly…I'm not even sure what to do anymore. I want to have this conversation with W soon, and I know we'll have it before Christmas. I am tired of enabling her A with OM. Pretty sure she will end up telling me she's not going to this internship in JAN and she is making no efforts to find her own place. I will not fund their every adventure together…and that includes her truck payment. My name is still on it so I have to pay for it, but why would I continue to pay for her truck if she's deliberately choosing to stay at OM apartment?
She will most definitely gripe and moan about things when we have this talk, and she may very well threaten to file papers for D. Not paying for anything means she won't even have a car to go to work. But I won't enable her.
My W needs to be hit with a 2x4 (as many WAS do) and this is probably the only way…I never asked her to leave. She came up with this decision while I was gone, I wasn't even home to talk about it. She definitely needs a reality check that…when you leave your H, you don't get everything you had before plus OM in your life.
As far as contact with W…I am kind of doubting DB coach, though I probably shouldn't. Cant remember if it was you Calibri or someone else that wrote it but…"how hard is it to answer the damn text." W and I were chatting over text today, and then she stops responding and hasn't said anything for hours. I am getting pretty annoyed with this whole one way street thing where she gets to do whatever she wants to do, talks to me whenever she feels like answering, and then goes back to OM's apartment.
It's time to set some boundaries, and I'm glad I reached one with the financial help, probably should have done that one a long time ago. I don't know how to set up a boundary as far as contact…DB coach says going dark is not a good idea for me because W is very friendly and seems to want contact. But she does this only on her terms. I don't know how to stop letting her run all over me with "I'll talk to you when I want, for as long as I want, and you're just going to have to deal with it." Selectively responding to her messages is an option, but how does that send any message to her that I'm tired of this being a one-way street?
Thoughts?
TLEE-
Gonna do this bullet point style tonight, cause that's how I roll.
-Are you sure there's an A going on with the person she's staying with. How does she know this person, especially if she's at at home a lot.
-Yes, it was me that uttered the "how hard is it to respond to a damn text." Had another one of those moments tonight. When H and I are texting, when he's not being Mr. Grumpypants, I try to end the conversation first, so that I'm not left hanging in the wind waiting for a conversation that may never return. Perhaps you could try it, say 30 minutes into the conversation wrap it up, "I have an appointment, it's been great chatting with you, let me know how school/work/the book you're reading ends." I wouldn't go against the DB. Coach. Your W has cited lack of contact for part of this whole thing. Don't go dark.
-it sounds like you're getting irritated, is it because you can't fix the situation or control it? . (I'm not saying that to be rude, just an observation.) If so, what could you do to work on this?
- what are you doing to GAL. How's the PMA going?
I know there is an EA. I do not believe it has turned into a PA. This person has been a best friend type person to her since before I knew her, she met him in high school. But I know he's always liked her. When she met me, her contact with him almost stopped completely. When I was in Afghanistan, I asked her not to talk to him at all because I didn't like the idea of late night conversations when I'm off in the middle of nowhere and she had no issues with that. When I was gone this second time, because it was for only a few months, I didn't ask her that. In her desperation and loneliness with zero contact with me, she turned to him for emotional support and when she couldn't sleep at 2am most nights despite all the ambien and nyquil she was taking…she called him, and he was the only person that she leaned on while I was gone. We (me and this guy) have never got along, and I know that he was not really doing much if anything to say, hey he's only gone for a few months, you can get through this etc etc. Instead, he came up with the brilliant idea that she could stay at his place if she left me. Yes, I am angry, yes I am bitter but no I am not placing blame on him. I know and have identified the number of things I could have done better in our M to make it strong enough to where we could survive these things. Quite honestly, we underestimated how 3 months of NC would affect us, I mean we did 1 year while I was in Afghanistan so how hard is 3 months?
Thank you for your insight into the texting…I will definitely try and do that. It is highly annoying when you are left waiting for a conversation that may never return, or return the next day. The only issue with that is I never know when she's suddenly gonna stop talking for a while. Sometimes its only been 10minutes of chatting/texting and then I don't hear from her all of a sudden. But…I can't control that, i can only try and implement your idea so we'll see how it goes.
It's taking a lot to not ask my W if every things ok…things have been off for the past week and a half, almost her own version of a 180. But thats not really DB…
I am extremely irritated. Its not so much I can't fix or control the situation, more because she's not doing her part. There's no reflecting on anything, trying to actually be independent and get on her own feet, just…I'm going to go and do whatever I want. It's entirely selfish. I know, I know…that's by definition a WAW, in my case, possibly wayward as well. But it's frustrating to see her do nothing to help herself and isn't looking at the big picture as far as improving her own life…basically, playing the victim AGAIN. As far as working on this, the only thing I can do is stop playing the role of rescuer.
GAL and PMA..comes and goes. Right now, the movers are here and its pretty draining watching them pack up our stuff. She still has 80% of her things here. Focus right now is really just get the house packed and ready to go so that I can start my drive tomorrow. Once I get to Texas is when I'll start doing some of the things I want to do (hunting, riding horses etc).
Insights? Thoughts? Anything I can be doing better?
ANNND part 2…again back on the lines of communicating with the W. As I've said, DB coach advised me to "match her" in initiating conversation because she feels like WAW may be waiting for an invitation from me, and that as long as I don't overdo it and start to show pursuing/neediness, I am ok to do that. Buuttttt my gut is telling me that WAW doesn't want that. She doesn't seem to be waiting for an invitation, she just seems to be pulling back. Not necessarily for a bad reason, but I know that despite how happy she seems or acts, she is stressed…about work, her long hours, whether or not she's going to this internship in Jan, going back to school, and of course the uncertainty of me and her, not to mention whatever is going on between her and roommate/OM…
I don't want to doubt DB coach, because she is the expert so I will try her idea. But deep down I believe my W is subtly asking for space for whatever reason and is naturally pulling back. Not for anything I may or may not have done, my actions have been consistent for a while now. But because of her own battles/emotions she's dealing with. Guess I'll try DB coach idea for the week and it is counter-intuitive to what I am feeling, but I'm the one that interacts with W and I just don't get the feeling of she wants more contact.
I am extremely irritated. Its not so much I can't fix or control the situation, more because she's not doing her part. There's no reflecting on anything, trying to actually be independent and get on her own feet, just…I'm going to go and do whatever I want. It's entirely selfish. I know, I know…that's by definition a WAW, in my case, possibly wayward as well. But it's frustrating to see her do nothing to help herself and isn't looking at the big picture as far as improving her own life…basically, playing the victim AGAIN. As far as working on this, the only thing I can do is stop playing the role of rescuer.
How is she not doing her part? What does doing her part look like? What do you want her to be doing, working on the M or herself? I'm not defending your W, I'm just reflecting on some things in my life. My IC 2x4'd me a few weeks ago about my H. I basically had the same complaint that you did. "Why isn't he working on himself, why isn't he doing this, why wouldn't he just pull himself up by the bootstraps and do whatever he needs to be doing to be a functional adult?" She asked me how I didn't know he wasn't doing the best that he could in his situation? That just because it didn't match MY expectation on how HE should be handling HIS life, didn't mean he wasn't doing the work. It may not be apparent to me (hell, it may not even exist) - but the thing is, right now, he doesn't have to prove anything to me - because he's on his own journey. He needs to prove it to himself. My time may or may not come.
Look, I understand about selfish -- my H left me in the middle of a packed up house, after I backed out of buying my childhood dream home for him. I was left to unpack a house, take care of our animals, take care of the fallout, etc. While he got/gets to sit in a hotel room and "find himself". And you know what he said to me? "I have to be selfish right now -- because I've put everyone, including you, ahead of my needs my entire life. To the point where I don't know who I am. So it's time for me to figure out me."
And while I don't agree with the method -- if the space is what he needs, then he gets it.
So, for what it's worth -- that's my input.
Re: communicating -- try what the DB coach said and monitor for results. And if you know she's stressed, maybe take a supportive stance. "I know you must be busy with school and long hours, I imagine that must be very stressful. Hope you're having a good day/will have a restful weekend" <-----Keep in mind I'm not a vet, and I have my own communication issues with my WAH.
Ok Ok Ok, point taken. Thank you for that.
That just because it didn't match MY expectation on how HE should be handling HIS life, didn't mean he wasn't doing the work. It may not be apparent to me (hell, it may not even exist) - but the thing is, right now, he doesn't have to prove anything to me - because he's on his own journey. He needs to prove it to himself. My time may or may not come.
This is a great point. Ironically one of my 180s was to not be so critical and be more empathetic instead of arrogant/controlling. And this just shows that I still need to work on myself. You're right, this is exactly how I was thinking..that how she is doing things is not what I would have done, or the route that I would have taken, but that's what got me to this point…I tried to control and plan everything and was critical when it wasn't my way. She is in complete control of her life and because its not how I would do it, doesn't mean its wrong. It's her life and she is set to prove it to herself.
Interesting enough, just to hammer home a point about moving forward without WAW that is a common theme here, I told my WAW that the movers were here today.
Me: "ANNND the movers are here. Let the fun begin!"
W: (8hours later…): "Sorry if I don't talk sometimes, I have moments that hit me like a brick wall that make me crumble sometimes and just havent figured out how to deal with it yet"
Me: It's ok I understand. I know you are stressed.
W: (on her online blog): "I hate this feeling I get, of pain and sadness. I know I'm still hurt, I'm scared, I wonder if I'm able, I hate what happened and whats become and how it all played out. I get so emotional I get sick to my stomach and then I put my head back down and wake up and do it all over again. Work, sleep, repeat. I have to make it on my own. But, I'm so sorry."
I didn't respond. There's nothing to say. She rarely says/posts things like this, if ever, but by tomorrow morning she will probably be rude and disrespectful again. All this tells me is, keep doing what I am doing, continue to work on me because I'm not where I should be yet, and let time run its course.
Stay in your own lane! Focus on you. What you can change?
I've seen you post several times about rude and disrespectful behavior from your W?
Can you elaborate more?
Hope your move is going well!
Hi Tlee,
I am not a vet but would like to give you some ideas.
Do you remember reading in DR about the baby steps? Maybe it would work with the texts to your W.
You would text her and more likely she will text you back, maybe changing the dynamic and timing, it would bug her to think what is going on.
Let's say you text her late at night, she will get your msg next morning, but she will see the time you sent it.
Then she may text you in the morning, but then you just ignore it, disappear for the day, answer her text like "Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, just a busy day" the following day.
Then off you go again for a day, then out of the blue text her something not very important, during the day, a time she is not expecting you to text. Say something she will need to write back.
If she reply, reply back, then she will reply again, then you say: "don't mean to be rude but I need go, later"
Does your wife text you on weekends? They are very hard but it would be good do not answer her, she would be thinking.
You see, if you text very late at night she may think you are alone and missing her. But in the same time, she can also think you could be parting somewhere and did text her later when you came back home.
The point is that she needs to know you care for her deeply and would like to work on your M... but, she also needs to feel some mystery, she needs to think that maybe she can loose you.
Learn with her, look what she is doing to you. And how crazy you get because she gives a lot and then pull back.
Many people in these boards talk about a book called "Five Languages of Love", try to read that and learn what is your W's love language.
And for a GAL, I would think you don't have much problems with that. You are 28 y old, you are a kid. Live your life in full, if you love your W then keep working to get her back, but go out there and live a full life.
Sorry you are here... it will hurt a little less every day.
Wow so what an emotional few days it's been. Got the house packed up and started my drive to Texas. W wanted to get together so met up with her for dinner for a few hours tonight.
Basically, she's starting to realize the grass isn't so green on the other side. I didn't bring up any M or R talk, she did. On more than one occasion she said "I don't know if I made the right choice," "I look back at how much I've given up and for what?" And other things along those lines. She said she left because she was angry and hurt and alone..didn't mention the ILYBNILWY part.
All I said back to her when she said those things were..."You know where we (the dogs and I) will be. I can't make any of these decisions for you anymore. This is something only you can figure out."
Besides that and lots of crying on her part, we had a great time. W noticed my new clothes and really liked them, and was pretty interested and all my new hobbies that I've done. Not sure what else to do at this point, if anything. It was really hard to not just say "then just come home...if you're wondering if you made the right choice and your this emotional than just come home already." But I didn't...
W was pretty surprised when I told her that I felt like there a lot of good things that we are learning from this and she's even starting to realize herself how difficult it is working the schedule that I had before.
Idk if I could have or should have done or said something different. I'm just not sure what to say when she says those things to me. I know that DB says not to believe anything she says but isn't this significant or should I just disregard this? Your thoughts?
Calibri/Pink- thanks for your responses, will respond tomorrow after I get some sleep!
Fingers crossed for reconciliation!
Congrats Tlee,
You did it so good. Polite, respectful and very confident. I am amazed with so how fast you learned some of these DB stuff.
Your W is very confused right now. I think you did the right thing to meet her let her know that she knows were you will be. And also that you can't make decision for her anymore, that she is the one to figure it out.
Hope your W will think about and reconsider her decision - hang in there.
Pink
NAJ- thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and I really appreciate your PMA. We are still a long ways away from reconciling, but I'd like to think that this is a positive step. I still learned that in order for us to reconcile my W needs to continue running this course that she's on until she's out of string, and only after a little longer will she actually realize that this isn't really what she wanted. She is still so determined to try and make it on her own that only when she either fails or even succeeds, will she look back and possibly try and make this work. But until she runs her own course it's still too soon to bring up reconciling.
Calibri, always great to hear from you. I've been thinking about what you said and I don't mean that my wife is rude or disrespectful. More.. Inconsiderate and cold. Again, by definition a WAW. What I meant to say was she will have these ups and downs where some days especially like yesterday it seems like she might be willing to think about working on the M but then she'll turn around the next day and just be extremely cold and ignore me half the time.
Pink- I appreciate your insight on working out this communication issue with my W. I think it has merit and I am willing to give it a try especially the early morning or late night texts. My W knows my schedule so you're right there's not very much mystery and this might help make it a little bit more...mysterious. Something else I've just started doing is matching her in her response times. If she takes an hour to get back to me, I'll wait an hour, if she takes 5 minutes, I'll take 5 minutes. Seems to be working, at least for now.
On another note day two of my drive is going well, definitely very different not to have my wife with me because we've made so many road trips together in the past. Today she's been making a lot of comments about how it's weird for me to be doing this on my own and she said a couple times how good it was to see me and that it's good to see I'm doing well, but that she never ever had to worry about me anyways.
Not really sure how to respond to this, I get the feeling that she's implying she herself isn't doing too great, but idk. Just a weird few days
Tlee,
Why do you feel the need to answer her if she text you?
She may need to feel that you are not there every time she snap her fingers. Most of the time you may answer her. You don't have any other form of contact, but if she is just blah, blah, blah, then you can let go.
After many hours you can say, sorry could not reply, was busy, and then make some comments on her text to you, if it's relevant anyway.
I am not saying to ignore her, but she may get a little worry that you may decide to kick her out of your life and find someone else now that you are exploring new ground.
She knows you are young and there are a lot of girls our there awaiting for some nice guy to come by. She is not stupid and she probably knows the risks of losing you too.
Remember, the freedom she wants and is claiming is the same freedom she is giving to you.
Some time ago, my H had this insinuation of me going out with friends, that I am his W and blah, blah, saying but not saying and I told him that, you want freedom, you got freedom, but don't forget that you also gave me freedom. By the way he looked at me, I could tell he never actually tough that way.
In all, it's great you and your W are in good terms and talking to each other, it helps a lot. Keep the good friendship, it can be a reason for your reconciliation.
Keep your heart tight, tomorrow may be a better day!
Hugs
Pink
I'm going to complain so...yea
I wonder if she'll ever come back home. I am doing everything I can as far as DBing and it seems to be working to an extent. But I miss her so much. Just got to where I needed to go in Texas and am signing for our new home tomorrow. This drive/move was definitely different and I hope I never have to do it alone again. I miss seeing my W in the passenger seat, having her help me take the dogs out at rest stops, and just seeing her pretty face and talking to her for hours on our drive. This house in moving into was one she fell in love with, and it's hard to imagine living in it without her since she picked it out.
Yes, the past few days since my visit with her have been very positive and she was clearly thinking some things over when I saw her. But I can't help but wonder, how long is this going to last. She's already said she wonders about if she didn't ever leave, that she doesn't know if she made the right choice. Her own words, she never planned on leaving me when I left, she just said she got really angry and hurt (somehow with me not there?) while I was gone so she left. She said she don't want to go to Texas but she never thought she wouldn't end up going...
All I wanna say to her is..."you never planned on leaving, clearly the emotional connection is still there...what do you think about coming back and giving it another shot?"
She's like half-committed to doing what she's doing but even she's not sure if this is the right choice...
I just miss her and want her home...She couldn't even look at me without crying when we were at dinner...I want to talk to her about coming home
Complain away - you read my angry posts the last 24 hours.
First off, glad you got to your destination safely. I can only imagine how tough the drive down would've been, so I imagine you're glad that part is over. As for the house, make it your own. If she comes back, you both can rearrange to suit you both.
I know you want her to come home. Boy do I know. But would you rather her come home because she wants to, and not because her other option didn't work out?
Try to keep up the PMA and GAL - especially with the next two weeks. They're going to be hard on all of us. Make sure to take care of yourself.
Thanks Calibri. I am glad I'm here, just signed for the house- more updates to follow a little later tonight.
Kind of a last minute help needed on what to say to my W.
She knows I'm here and just signed for our house. I sent her a couple pictures of me and the dogs hanging out earlier but nothing of this house yet. She says she doesn't want to know anything or see anything because she is supposed to be here and she's not so it makes her feel like crap.
I'm not sure what to say back to her. She's been extremely emotional this past week and as I said before is wondering if she made the right choice.
I want to tell her well why aren't you here or you know you can be here.. Or do you want to talk about it later.. But I don't know what's good to say back to her I know she's clearly thinking..
Thoughts anyone? Thanks!
Well.....you could ignore it and not send her anything. Or you could validate her feelings.
I stole these from the validation thread (which is a really good read):
----
Try and use "Would, will" statements. Do not say "should, could" if you can!!
"Wow, that's a lot to deal with"
"That sounds discouraging"
"That sounds like it would really hurt"
"It sounds like you are really feeling xxxxx"
"It sounds like xxxxx is really important to you"
"I can see that you are really upset"
"Would you like to talk about it"
"That really bothered you, didn't it?"
"How did you feel when xxxxxx?"
"What bothers you the most about it"
"What would help you feel better"
"I can see you are really uncomfortable about this"
"I can understand why you would be upset"
"So, you really felt insulted (or whatever emotion), is that it"
--
Personally, I'd probably go with "I can understand you are uncomfortable about this."
I would discourage the why aren't you here or you know you could be here talk. In my stitch, that tended to rile up the spouse, or reinforce his desire to stay away. Your W knows you want her with you. I don't think now's the time to talk about her coming home. See where her thinking takes her. Listen to her. Hear what she's saying. Validate.
Hi
Ive been dealing with this for the last month, I moved from the apartment we rented together (w moved to her mother in july taking our s - see my thread for the details) into a rental house after w asked me to do so so she could move back in and away from her mother before matricide was on the cards, she said when i was coming to see it if it was good go for it and was happy as anything so she could get moving.
Spool on to now, Im in and making it my home, s has a nice room for when he stays and W's first reaction to anything was "I dont want to know" or to be sullen and foul tempered if she was coming here to drop off s etc.
I honestly dont think theres a good plan to deal with this bar validation as Calibri says, we've got to the stage where w stayed the other day when picking s up and had a couple of coffees and some breakfast but I know she's still not happy with what she sees as my nice warm big house and her cold drafty apartment (even though its the same one she wanted to get back into).
Absolutely though dont go to the invitation to move in or the "look what you could have won" kind of scenario (sorry british cheesey game show reference for those in the US) stay positive and see what aspect is bothering her, get her to talk and validate. Beyond that the only thing Id say is dont second guess what she wants, I learned that one early on and it cost me a week of silence after the phone went down on me in a rush.
Edz, Calibri- thanks for your advice. I went with something very similar to what you guys suggested and it went well. Edz I appreciate you sharing your sitch, it seems very similar to what I'm going through now so I appreciate the insight.
Journaling..
Signed for new house today., awesome place that's close to everything on post, including a dog park and some nice running routes so anxious to try one out tomorrow. Bought some more clothes and a new laptop today- unfortunately not able to use it yet because I don't have Internet here yet. Bought some groceries and took the dogs out. All in all a pretty busy day getting things done so in happy with it. Tomorrow, more of the same before finally meeting new soldiers on Friday. Should be interesting. This place is actually much nicer than I thought. Oh! And looking for a ranch to go ride horses again, seriously might buy one, and looking at going on a hunting trip hopefully in the near future.
W ended up calling me again after work today, mostly just to BS and talk about anything. Things are continuing to go well since our dinner last week. She's been very friendly and calling more often and actually asks about my day now so score for the WAW. Ended up getting into a R/M talk with her on the phone today, didn't go bad, sort of expected it given how emotional things have been.
Bottom line, she's continuing to work on establishing her own independence, and some of it actually makes sense such as managing her own money and actually knowing what it feels like to work full time and in her words, "see what I had to do everyday." I'm actually thankful she said that because she is getting to see my side of things just like I'm seeing things from her point of view now, so it's a good thing. She did say sometimes she misses our old life together but a lot of times she says she "doesn't let herself go there" or she doesn't have too much time to think since she's working such long hours.
She says she might want me to send her pictures of the house, but it's hard because she doesn't want to see it because she doesn't want to see what she's missing out, and she knows exactly what she'd be doing if she was here. Kinda the "ostrich approach" where if you bury your Head in the sand and if you don't see it it's not happening and it can't hurt you.
My gut feeling as of this moment tonight? We both have a lot of growing to do and this experience is actually good for the both of us. I know she's still hurt and angry sometimes but as of this moment, I have a feeling that once she's finished doing her own growing she'll come back. This is more starting to sound like it's about her than it is about me and her. Thoughts?
And while I don't agree with the method -- if the space is what he needs, then he gets it.
Calibri, I just saw this nugget. Well said.
Hi all, just in need of some advice, not sure if I'm about to make the right move here so any and all input is welcome!
So as I've been posting, things with WAW seemed positive when I saw her last week as she said a lot of things that make her question if she made the right choice in leaving. She's been calling this week again and everything is pretty friendly.
I'm debating on opening up to her about how I feel about how we communicate.
1. It absolutely irritates the living (censored) out of me when she doesn't respond to my texts for hours, if at all. It's not like I'm blowing up her phone, just some hey how are you and etc, following the advice of my DB coach. It is 100% one sided and it's more of the same. I'll usually wait 30min to respond to her messages and be friendly. Again, I know a popular theme here is to go dark or be selective when you respond to texts, but in my situation, DB coach advised me to just keep being friendly. Should I tell her how (censored) annoying and irritating it is when she just disregards my texts?
I'm also seriously considering NC for a week. I just don't know if this week, Christmas week, is the best time to do it. Reason for NC for a week is just because I am tired of answering her calls and her texts when she doesn't do the same for me. I love talking to her and it almost seems normal sometimes but I want to make it a point that this can't be one-sided. It also just might let me clear my head and breathe and makes me feel like I have some more control in this whole thing. I just don't know what to say to her when we do start talking again.
Thoughts?
Hi tlee
I would*never* contradict your coach and you two know the sitch far better than I but I will say that it sounds very familiar to my ws behaviour up to the last couple of weeks. Speaking to her may work but I can say in the early weeks in my situation I did that (this is before dbing) the result was absolutely more of the same. I think w took it as me pushing her and she was if anything worse.
Now I don't text her as much, I still struggle but detatchment is starting to help. Since I've dialed it back w is texting me more. As I said I won't contradict the advice you've got but that definitely didn't work for me.
Answering your question on my thread over here:
I'm clearly not an expert on this subject. At all. But you know how your wife might react.
The way I see it, it can go three ways.
1.You tell your wife, she gets pissed off. Stops talking or sets back any progress you might've made.
2. ".........." And she agrees to do what you ask, and then doesn't.
3. "..........." And she agrees and she does.
The bigger question is, what gets you the best results? Would she perceive your feelings as a complaint or attack against her?
You told me to have no expectations. I'm telling you the same. Also, it might be time to check in with your coach and re-evaluate. There's some formula that's on the boards that suggests for every x amount of action, you do x amount of reaction.
Is it worth it for me to tell my H my feelings? Yes. But I'm pondering LAbugs post to me, and I can't help but wonder, what do I get out of telling H how I feel? That my feelings are more important than his? That I think he should act a certain way because it would make me feel better?
What I think you and I both need to think about - why are we so irritated and upset about the communication we are currently having with our WAS? What does it say about us?
Lastly, you mention going NC as a way to feel like you have control in the whole thing. Think about why you feel like you need to be in control.
/ambiguous post from someone who needs to STFU and take her own advice. :-)
Also, I think I'm going to go back to an early standby. When this all blew up and H and I were truly NC because of various different issues, I journaled instead of texting H. What I wrote wasn't healthy at all, but thank god I wrote and kept it myself instead of telling him.
Edz/Calibri, thank you for your insight.
Speaking to her may work but I can say in the early weeks in my situation I did that (this is before dbing) the result was absolutely more of the same. I think w took it as me pushing her
Point taken. I've been running this scenario through my head and all I can come up with is my W will say "thank you for your honesty, I don't mean to do that to you..(insert excuse here)...I will try and not do that anymore."
What will actually happen is she'll try for a little bit and then fall back into her old habits because at the end of the day, she knows what she's doing and if she wanted to stop doing it she would. Me saying anything will probably not cause a permanent change in her actions
The bigger question is, what gets you the best results? Would she perceive your feelings as a complaint or attack
Honestly, probably STFU and doing nothing. She has apologized before for being wishy washy with her responses and they're a variety of excuses so she knows she's not good at texting me back sometimes. As I said above, when she wants to change, she will...telling her will probably cause a temporary change, but not permanent because this is me asking her to do something, rather than her doing it on her own.
Is it worth it for me to tell my H my feelings? Yes. But I'm pondering LAbugs post to me, and I can't help but wonder, what do I get out of telling H how I feel? That my feelings are more important than his? That I think he should act a certain way because it would make me feel better?
The way I see it is by telling her she knows how I feel and I'm being honest with her and not letting it fester. Otherwise, I'm just brushing it off and pretending like everything is ok when it's not. But I guess she already knows that she's doing this so why even bring it up? I don't think it's letting her know my feelings are more important than hers, more that she actually knows what my feelings are?
What I think you and I both need to think about - why are we so irritated and upset about the communication we are currently having with our WAS? What does it say about us?
Lastly, you mention going NC as a way to feel like you have control in the whole thing. Think about why you feel like you need to be
I am this irritated and upset about my communication with her because it's completely one sided. Because although I trust my DB coach, I feel like I am just enabling and being too available for my W. Yet if I don't respond to her, my W takes it like I'm giving her the cold shoulder or I have no interest in talking with her- something I did when we were still living together. I never made time for her.
NC is just a way to let her maybe even wonder what I am doing. But then I don't think NC is a good idea because my W has already expressed concerns that we will grow apart since I'm so far away.
It's a catch-22. Talking and being friendly seems to just allow more of the same from her until she wants to change. NC means her concern about us growing apart since I'm so far away is true and is also more of the same from me as when we were living together.
Maybe I'm rambling. Thoughts?????
Tlee,
I think that you need to stop the confusion in your own head. You mention that your W is working a lot and long hours. Is that possible that she is busy sometimes and can't just run to the phone and answer you right away.
Sometimes my H text me on those days I have a lot of patients and I can't just answer. I do as I go.
Also, because she left angry with you and one of her complain is that you did not gave her much attention, she may be doing some DBing with you, even if she doesn't know about this forum, she may have the instinct to provoke some reaction on you.
What Calibri repeated from Labug is very important. Think about that it's not about you. It sounds unfair but you are the one that want to fix the M. You are the one to do the heavy lift for now and be very, very patient. You probably remember reading on DB, DR - these are Michelle's words to us.
Your DB coach said that you should be friendly and do not cut communication with her. But he probably did not say you need to text her morning, afternoon and night. Give her some space to miss you.
It's the balance that needs to be adjusted. Not too much, but do not cut it all.
Maybe one idea would be to turn things around. Like maybe you need some recipe that you know she is good at. Say you need it because you are cooking some dinner for a couple of friends that will come over to see the house.
Or maybe she knows the best way to hang a picture frame on the wall. Just something light that will keep contact but is not R talk.
Don't go NC at this time of the year (my opinion) it will drive you crazy and also you will lose the opportunity to be friendly with her.
Maybe you call or text just asking what plans she has for XMas this year. Maybe you know some routines already and it will help with the subject aprouch.
Remember, every time you want to do or say something, first breath and give some time, then you go back to that tough and find out if the results would be what you are trying to accomplish.
Take good care after yourself. These are tough times for all of us. Keep writing, we will be here for you.
Hugs,
Pink
Pink,
As always thank you for your insight. I truly appreciate the time you take in reading through my thread. Took your last advice and took a step back, literally I stood there and stepped back haha, and breathed before doing anything. Also I spoke with my DB Coach today, gotta love them, and she had some very similar points you did.
RE: W is working long hours and can't respond
Yes. I fully understand that she has a hectic schedule and is stressed. I also know that I should be grateful for how much we are talking and that sometimes she just doesn't feel like talking. What bothered me is that she always apologizes and then continues todo the same thing and never respond on time.
Here's my DB Coach advice. " Think Firefly not Flood Light" and dont acknowledge my Ws apologies because when you consistently apologize to someone, you feel like you're always doing something wrong, obviously a feeling I don't want to convey to my WAW who has always felt like she doing something wrong. Instead I should just say "hey I get it, I'm busy too" so she feels at ease and not like she has to explain herself.
Also, I've read this a lot on here but never understood it, but to say goodbye first and to keep our convos shorter. I always felt it good to talk longer but then apparently I am "satisfying my W and giving her TLEE86 fix for the day, and she doesn't feel the need to keep talking. By being friendly and keeping convos to 15min or so, it leaves her wondering. Again I know this has been posted before but I never "got it" till today..sorry Army guy. Not too bright.
She also suggested that I actually respond quicker to texts, so I am more of a firefly that just pops in and out instead of a flood light that is alwaySsss on. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about how to get my W to stop taking forever in responding sometimes, just have to roll with it but hopefully by being more "firefly-y" it makes her more interested when I do talk.
All in all, pretty productive coaching session. Really saw a lot of positives from my visit with W that were re-emphasized by DB coach. Thankful for this forum and coach to make me think about what I am about to do or say before doing it.
I realize my posts have been ALOT about my W. Not so much about me an what I am doing..probably need to shift my focus...My GAL activities are full but I can't help but think of how awesome it would be to be doing those things with WAW? Not sure if there's anyway to change that??
Anyways, thank you guys for letting me vent, and steer me in the right direction.
My dear young arm guy.
You are doing great! You are giving a chance to learn new stuff related to Rs, not only with your W, but things you will take with you for life with or without W.
This is a very positive direction you are taking. Not too many young guys would give a crap about trying to understand all this stuff about M/R. You are awesome.
As you know, I agree with your DB coach. Do this firefly attitude and your W will be curious of what is going on.
Remember that she thinks about you, she still loves you, she is the one all mixed up, she is probably very lost.
Unfortunately, it feels all upside down and awkward right now. It makes not too much sense, but the more you do and practice these techniques of detaching, making yourself happy, a man only a fool would leave, setting boundaries, respecting your individuality... it all make sense at some point and the best is that you start feeling a lot better about yourself.
Thinking about, being up one day and feeling crappy the next or even in the same day, is perfectly normal. You would be some kind of robot if it is not happening. Give yourself time. Grief is a very hard feeling to deal with.
You are doing great, keep the hard work.
And go have some fun, you are young, don't waste this beautiful time of your life.
Hugs,
Pink
T-
Glad you checked back in with a coach -- sounds like you got great feedback. I'm going to apply it to my own sitch and see what happens.
Yes, your GAL activities would be even more awesome if your W was there. But as pink so brilliantly said -- you can't waste a moment of your young life.
How are your 180s going?
Well folks... Grab your popcorn and 2x4's... This post is going to be all over the place
So in spite of a rather successful coaching session this morning, I, in all my wisdom, decided that W annoyed me enough to text her the following:
"Hey... I know you've been busy and I completely understand that but I can't help but notice you've been ignoring my messages the past few days. Just wondering if I'm bothering you or what's up"
W, within seconds, calls and immediately begins to apologize and explain herself saying it's been a crazy day and she just didn't feel like doing anything this weekend. Of course now I remember what my coach said about W apologizing and explaining herself is a no go, so I said hey you don't have to explain yourself I was just wondering if I was bothering you. W says no you're not bothering me at all it's just been hectic lately. Rest of the convo goes smoothly and ends on a good note.
Honestly I'm not sure I'm even feeling bad that I told my W that what she's doing bothers me. It felt good to get off my chest and she should know. Now, big question, did it hurt my efforts in DBing and will it get me results?
I don't know but I don't think it hurt me very much in DB. Obviously if I say that every day it'll probably start to get annoying on her part, but I won't. I'm actually kind of glad I did because she needs to know that I'm not okay with how things have been going. I wasn't a jerk and I don't think I came off THAT needy, and the convo went well after that. Took my coaches advice and cut the convo off after 20 minutes. W seemed indifferent about it, but I know that I, at least, was not satisfied because it's about half the amount of time we normally talk for. BUT, it really did feel like foreplay without the climax... And those are my coachs words (for the record I found it extremely entertaining that what I picture is an 80-year-old woman talking to me about foreplay and climaxing). But it actually makes sense. Coach said when you end the conversation short and on a high note it's like the feeling of arousal you get before climax and not the one you get afterwards. (Again, picturing an 80-year old lecturing me on this)
What do I expect from here now that I've brought it to my Ws attention that I hate how she respond so slow? Nothing really different, more of the same, but what's said is said.
On another note, bought and mailed W some Christmas presents today (Coach advice), nothing crazy just one of our favorite movies (FROZEN :P ), a heated blanket and some of her favorite chocolates. Forget who's thread I read it on but it actually feels really good to be doing that because I know that she's spending Christmas alone this year and she will also have no presents so it's nice just to know that she will be happy on Christmas day even if I'm not.
Something else along those lines is that it was actually really hard to not just break down and lose it in the middle of the store while buying presents. We have spent 2 of the last 3Christmases apart because of the army but this one is one that I never even dreamed about happening, much like everyone here. I'm so tired of being alone, so tired of being sad all the time, wondering if W will ever come home. Again I try and focus on the positives because I have at least seen some remorse from W, And she has at least said some things to give me a little hope but I'm so tired of this. Weird how the smallest things trigger sadness. I bought a large pepperoni pizza today and started getting really upset because there were three pieces of pizza remaining, because I always ate 5 and she always ate the other 3.
Yea I know it sounds SUUUUUPPPERRRR SAPPY but you know what, I'm gonna take that for this moment. And you know what? At the end of the day I'm still a (censored) Airborne Ranger!
Trying also not to be concerned with W and roommate, honestly I'm not even sure I want to call him OM, because I know there is no PA, and if there is a EA, she has even said before that it will never go anywhere. He's more of a distraction than anything else. But I never acknowledge his even existence so it is what it is...
Went to Petsmart and bought my dogs a ridiculously expensive dog bed, which they are now trying to share, but I ended up kicking out my Golden and told her we are having a no girls allowed club so me and my German shepherd are curled up while my golden is sulking in a corner-she looks pretty pitiful...ha
Pink/Cal, thanks for your comments- I'm responding tomorrow. Right now I have a date with 3 pieces of pizza + Katherine Heigl in State of Affairs. Goodnight DB, tomorrow will be a better day.
I don't think you hurt your DBing. Just don't make it a habit. I think it's interesting that your W called you and apologized.
I think where you will be tested, will be if her communication doesn't change.
You can still be sappy and be a Ranger. They balance each other out. :-)
But Frozen? Come on now. ;-)
Hi
Indeed I don't think there's anything wrong with what was said just be careful in texting, calling or emailing unless you need to as it's sooo easy for that to go into pursuing without you even realising (voice of experience here, I was pursuing poster boy for the first month or so). Sounded like a good exchange remember to validate though, hectic time lots going on etc, tricky line to walk without sounding like you're digging into what she's up to which is why it's best.......and you know the rest
Frozen eh? My s is 10 so I've seen that an unhealthy number of times, think I identify with Olaf
Nothing wrong with Disney even if you're not a Ranger and if you are? Well I'm not arguing with you then!
Take care
Edz
Really must be the Holidays because everyone's posts are starting to sound the same so here's me jumping on that band wagon.
I hate what happened and what's become of my M. I wish I never left my W this last time and rather than working on my career, I should have been working on my M. I just didn't know, she didn't even know, this was even close to happening. As of July she was all about having kids and coming to Texas with me. What happened between July and September when I finally came home? I will never know, and I suppose it really doesn't matter anymore.
I find myself wanting to text W and say "hey, let's fix this" or "I miss you W, let's try this again" or "neither one of us wanted this, so let's get us back on track."
I even wrote a long letter ( no I didn't send it) to her just detailing how I feel about everything and again recognizing the things I could have done better to not let us get here. I wrote about how I am in a way thankful for this time apart because I realize what it was like on her side of the fence, and what we could have done together to make this better. Sad part about it is none of our problems had anything to do with each other. My problems were all work related which I in turn dumped on W. Her problems were that she had nothing to do so her happiness depended on my happiness and if I was upset she was upset. It wasn't anything that we actually fought over, just bad communication.
I hate that we're not spending Christmas together this year. We had so many plans as of July that are obviously not happening. I hate that I can't even see her smile when she opens the presents I got her. I hate that she's still being so inconsiderate and selfish with everything. Most importantly, I hate what has become of our M.
She has made very little effort this past week to actually try and communicate with me outside of her apology phone call yesterday. Today is more of the same, so not really a whole lot of good it did talking to her about it.
Well, b*tch sessions over, time to go to IC. Updated list of 180s to come, hopefully tonight.
Oh and just for the record...FROZEN is a fantastic movie.
"Do you wanna build a snowman...???"
You know what? YEA I DO. Stupid Texas and no snow in December.
"Ok bye..."
I'm done. I can't do it anymore. I won't, do it anymore. What happened? Nothing too crazy but found out my W is now texting an old serious BF of hers. She hasn't talked to him since we've been married, and she mentioned last week that he wrote her out of the blue and that she "wasn't going to even really respond" but now she's texting him?
Do I think she's going to go back to him? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
But this just goes to show where her state of mind is. So Im going to either a)just ignore her until TBD...(not hard considering she's not very talkative this past week) or b) just lay it all out there and let her know I'm tired playing games while she's doing whatever she's doing
I can't deal with this woman anymore.
I'm done. I can't do it anymore. I won't, do it anymore. What happened? Nothing too crazy but found out my W is now texting an old serious BF of hers. She hasn't talked to him since we've been married, and she mentioned last week that he wrote her out of the blue and that she "wasn't going to even really respond" but now she's texting him?
It seems like people always come out of the woodwork. So, let's look at the bright side -- she at least told you that she's talking to him and not hiding it.
But this just goes to show where her state of mind is.
What does it show? How are you interpreting it?
So Im going to either a)just ignore her until TBD...(not hard considering she's not very talkative this past week) or b) just lay it all out there and let her know I'm tired playing games while she's doing whatever she's doing
Ok. Imma tough love you real quick. Cause we're internet friends right? (Say right.) What does either action do for you? Because from my end, it looks like you're upset because she's not reacting the way YOU think she should act. Going dark is for you. It may get her attention, it may not. But it shouldn't be a means to punish her. It would be a time for you to regroup, think about things, and reach out at a point when you're more detached and more in control of your emotions. Because right now you are upset (and that's completely understandable) but do you really want to show anger in the situation, given your history with anger within your relationship?
Or you could tell her that you're tired of playing games. But to what end? I've told my H I was tired of his games, several times. And guess what -- his behavior hasn't changed. And it may or may not change her behavior. But looking at the bigger picture -- why do you think she's playing games? Or, why are you interpreting her actions as such?
I can't deal with this woman anymore.
Would you be this upset if she had started talking to someone she hadn't had a previous relationship?
Breathe.
Regroup.
Breathe.
What calibri said ^^^^^^^^^
The only thing I would add is a reminder on the message believe nothing that's said and 50% ( or less) of what's done. Hold on mate
Edz
C, right
1. Yes I'm glad she told me that he fb'd her
2. What it shows is that I am even lower on her list of priorities. Just talked to my IC, and to sum up this whole situation basically her excuses saying that she's too busy at work to talk to me hurts me even more because now besides her roommate she's making her ex-boyfriend a priority over me because she's messaging him over me while she's at work.
I haven't heard from her all day and if I bring it up she's just gonna say she's busy but apparently not too busy to be talking to her roommate and her ex-boyfriend.
Now I'm not proud of how I found out she's texting him, yes I snooped and this is why you shouldn't do that.
My IC advised me to talk to my W about this because she is saying that I am building up so much anger and resentment towards her that it is affecting the way that I want to communicate with my W. Which makes sense because now I am so irritated I don't even want to talk to her anymore and when I do like yesterday I'm not as able to be upbeat or happy as much.
I asked my IC what good does it actually do to let my wife know how I feel about this and she said it really will just help you to get it off your chest so you don't have to shoulder this burden anymore and continue to build so much resentment that you just blow up at my wife one day and say things I don't mean.
This is where I told IC that I had a friend, that's you Calibri (cue the tears, sigh and smile), Who told her husband the same thing and there has not been very much change from him because at the end of the day you can't control the other person's feelings. But what I've just realized is that maybe it's not about whether or not it makes me feel better but whether or not it prevents me from blowing up at her and I really can't recover from that. C, I wonder if this is what happen in your situation to because giving your personality I can see you going up at your H and by getting it off your chest, it allowed you to continue to be patient. Basically, taking a small step back in order to continue moving forward rather than taking small steps forward and then doing something you can never recover from.
I think I'll bring it up to W. Thoughts? Anyone?
2. What it shows is that I am even lower on her list of priorities.
Ok. I get this. Because I'm struggling with this as well. I was (for the most part) my H's number one priority in life. He always put my needs before his. Now that's happening and it hurts. ALOT. But, if I remember correctly - part of the reason W left, is because she based her happiness on you. In a way, I would interpret that as she prioritized you over herself. And it didn't work for her.
When a spouse walks away -- the relationship no longer becomes a priority for them. The LBS perhaps slips down on the list of priorities -- if they even remain on the list at all. It's hard, because we, as LBS, want to feel important. We're devestated, we want affirmations that we are loved, that things will work out, that we aren't the horrible people that our spouses's think or say we are. But, it's not the WAS responsibility to assure us, just like it's not our responsibility to fix the WAS's problems. We can only focus on ourselves and hope that they are doing the same.
Just talked to my IC, and to sum up this whole situation basically her excuses saying that she's too busy at work to talk to me hurts me even more because now besides her roommate she's making her ex-boyfriend a priority over me because she's messaging him over me while she's at work.
Good. I'm glad you are able to identify why you're upset. But, I'm going to put a different spin on it. Just something to think about. Have you thought that perhaps your W isn't talking to you because she's processing what's going on. She may be feeling guilt, or remorse, or sadness with her situation. She may be having a rough time being by herself at the holidays. She may be avoiding talking to you, because by talking to you she's reminded of your sitch. You're in Texas living in the house she picked out. You're continuing on with your life. She's (in some ways - and by her own choosing) left behind to process her feelings. She may just be shutting down to process it all. Just because she isn't talking to you, doesn't mean she isn't thinking about you.
I haven't heard from her all day and if I bring it up she's just gonna say she's busy but apparently not too busy to be talking to her roommate and her ex-boyfriend.
Then don't bring it up. It's a cheese less tunnel. Her choices are hers to make. What's she supposed to do, sit at home and not talk to her roommate because she's not talking to you? It's not an all or nothing situation here.
My IC advised me to talk to my W about this because she is saying that I am building up so much anger and resentment towards her that it is affecting the way that I want to communicate with my W. Which makes sense because now I am so irritated I don't even want to talk to her anymore and when I do like yesterday I'm not as able to be upbeat or happy as much.
You can talk to her - but are you prepared for the outcome if it doesn't change? You cannot control your wife's behavior. But you can control how you react to it.
I asked my IC what good does it actually do to let my wife know how I feel about this and she said it really will just help you to get it off your chest so you don't have to shoulder this burden anymore and continue to build so much resentment that you just blow up at my wife one day and say things I don't mean.
Is there another way you could get it off your chest without saying it to your W? I mean, you could tell her -- but I think it really needs to be a "one and done" situation. You can't keep telling her every time she doesn't talk to you that you're getting irritated. Because she will eventually get irritated as well and that leads to blow ups. Sometimes you need to have them, sometimes you don't.
This is where I told IC that I had a friend, that's you Calibri (cue the tears, sigh and smile),
Raising my glass in a salute to you dude!
But what I've just realized is that maybe it's not about whether or not it makes me feel better but whether or not it prevents me from blowing up at her and I really can't recover from that. C, I wonder if this is what happen in your situation to because giving your personality I can see you going up at your H and by getting it off your chest, it allowed you to continue to be patient. Basically, taking a small step back in order to continue moving forward rather than taking small steps forward and then doing something you can never recover from.
You've pegged me. But the problem that I have is, when I get it off my chest, I get EVERYTHING OFF MY CHEST. And it's usually not pretty. It does help with my patience, but I also believe it comes with a few steps back. I'm exploring different ways of getting things off my chest without expressing it directly to my H. Journaling. Running, Working out. Singing angry chick music at the top of my lungs, punctuated by bouts of profanity.
Only you know your W and how she will or will not react. I don't think I would talk to her yet about it, especially since you just had a talk with her a few days ago. It may come off as an attack. Or being controlling. Through this process, we have to accept that things are not going to go our way. That there are going to be things that test us. This is something that tests you. Challenge yourself to find a new way to get it off your chest, and out of your system, without immediately telling your W.
I'm telling you -- internet crossfit friend to another (and by no means am I anything like Camillie -- I wish.) that you and I are quite similar in our manners. And we also have sitch's that show hope and promise. We should be thankful that our WAS are talking to us, because we don't have the kid connection to keep dialogue open. We're sitting pretty compared to others. We need to breathe, regroup, breathe some more, lift some heavy [censored] and figure out ourselves -- and let our WAS's figure themselves out.
Merry Christmas -- do something fun, ok!
Ok So I ended up talking to my wife about how I felt because I was literally losing my patience and about to blow up at her.
I basically called her and told her that I know I'm not her #1 priority anymore but when she ignores my messages or respond to them hours later it just makes me wonder if she even wants me to be texting her at all (which she has always said yes, keep talking to me). I also told her that I felt like I was always walking on egg shells around her because it seems like some days she really wants me to talk to her and other days she seems to blow me off completely and I didn't like that feeling
Ironically she actually validated me and said that if that was happening to her she would feel pretty crappy too, and that yeah I was always number one on her list of priorities but now she's putting all her focus into work, but she said she would make more of an effort and try not to let that happen anymore. The rest of the conversation went well and ended on a high note. She actually texted me late last night and said thank you for telling me how you feel I will try to be more aware of what I'm doing
She actually is trying at least for now. She's called me twice today and I cut both conversations off after about 10 to 15 minutes, and she was very responsive while she was texting me at work. Part of me feels like I guilt tripped her into this or she feels obligated to but you know what, at the end of the day nobody is forcing her to try, so for now I'm at least happy that it seems like she is trying to respect what I said to her
I am fully prepared that she will not try as hard after a little while, and I know that I can't keep having this conversation with her as it will start to irritate her but for now she is at least trying, no matter how long this lasts
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Calibri,
RE: LBS is no longer on WAS list of priories /not their job to reassure us/not ours to fix them
Duly noted. That is just something that I struggle to deal with and realize so thank you for reinforcing that. Yes, part of why she left is because she put all of her happiness into me and had nothing for herself. I fully understand that she needs her own life and that in order for us to grow together she needs to grow herself first just like I do
RE: Could it be she is just thinking about what's happening when she doesn't talk?
Yes. I know she does because she has told me she does that. It is those times where I have to get my own negative thoughts under control and focus on GAL to distract myself
RE: Getting it off my chest helps with patience/finding other sources to vent besides telling her
For me I know that I was fully prepared to deal with the consequences of what she would say back to me when I told her. Thankfully she reacted positively and at least for now seems to be making some sort of effort to try. You're right this is a "one and done" talk and I can't have anymore of them with her, regardless of what she does. Running, CrossFit and just taking my dogs out all help ease my mind. (Too bad we're not in the same city, can you imagine if we were able to work out together? PR's EVERYDAY!) angry chick music...ehhh sometimes
I like Katy Perry
Bottom line, you're right. You and I are very similar in how we conduct ourselves and in our overall personalities, which is probably why we get along so well (as well as can be over the internet). But those same personalities are things that we are slowly working on because that's what got us in this situation. I am very grateful that I have as much communication with my W as I do, and she does 90% of the initiating so I should be grateful. We are in a much better spot from where we were almost 3 months ago, and she's gone from we're getting a divorce to I don't know what I want and she is remorseful. Small potatoes, but hey I'll take anything I can get.
Patience patience patience...something I've never had but am learning so much about. Thanks for talking me off the ledge, I was about to lay it all out there for her yesterday and I am super glad I did not do that.
--------------180s---------
1. Continue to empathize with her and do not be critical of her
- even when things are going better this week since my last visit with her I sometimes fall back into old habits and begin to give advice and catch myself doing it
2. Don't share things when she doesn't ask
- in our M, everything was always about me me ME! I have to continue to understand that just because we're talking a lot more now doesn't mean that she wants to hear everything about me this is still about her
3. Be easy-going and show her I can handle her moods
- This is the one that I have been struggling with lately as my patience was running dry. Again I just need to take a deep breath and regroup before doing anything stupid. In our M, when she would get moody I would always try and fix it but sometimes she doesn't need a fix she just needs to be left alone- this is insanely difficult not to step in
4. Continue to support her and everything she does unless it's something retarded like having an A
- kind of goes back to everything in our M was about my career and what I wanted now I need to show her that I can actually support things that she has going on in her life, most importantly her work right now
5. Do not bring up the past and good times from it unless she brings it up first
- this one isn't so much of a 180, but just something I am catching myself doing lately. Ever since my last visit with her and she started to talk more emotionally and remorsefully at times, I find myself always saying hey remember when this or remember when that, but it's not always accepted well so I need to stop it unless she brings it up first
--side note-- on the lines of GAL, one of my soldiers just put up a Facebook picture of his six-year-old son skinning, quartering and cleaning a deer. Can't wait to get my first deer so that one day I can teach my kids (whenever we have them) the same thing instead of playing his Xbox---
I apologize for writing what seems to be almost a thesis statement in this post but, hopefully this will be the last one until after Christmas. Thanks for listening DBers, hope you all have a Merry Christmas!
Hello TLEE86. Thank you for your post on my thread. I really appreciate you and your support... on this hard day here especially. I read your posts and you make me feel glad and hopeful when I see you still talking friendly with your W. Keep at it. I hope things get better for you both soon and that you find happiness this season. Merry Christmas to you too.
HP, thanks for the kind words, I truly do admire you're attitude and learn a lot from your thread. Merry Christmas to you and your S
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Side note, W called me AGAIN today, 3 times in a day, again I kept the convo short, taking the dogs out now. She called to say she got my gifts to her in the mail, and like usual, she opened them early. She kept saying it was the sweetest gift I've ever gotten her and it was the perfect package (got her a heated blanket, FROZEN movie-our favorite- FROZEN nightlight-she's been wanting a night light- and her favorite chocolates. Guess she's about to wrap herself up in the blanket and watch the movie, wish I was there but it's ok.
We're going to be face timing/skype in the morning so she can see me give the dogs there "gifts"-just bones wrapped in wrapping paper.
By far not the best Christmas ever, but I am very thankful that on the day before and day of, just might be an ok day.
I'll post an update later tonight but for now...
I miss my Wife =(
Hi mate.
Don't beat yourself up or be disappointed in life yourself or anything. We all miss our was's and there would be something wrong if that wasn't playing on our minds at this time of year.
I'm trying so hard at my PMA and gal and detachment and have been at this since July but I still have a dull ache deep in me for my w at times. The trick is to get that time down a little bit each day over time. Remember you will continue and you will be OK and happy again, maybe not with w but you will be happy and if you can be happy and content with yourself you may stand more of a chance, even if you don't you will be in a better place for you.
Regardless as I said on my thread I raise my glass to all of us dbing at this time of year and remind us all we are surviving and moving on. It still makes it OK to feel sad sometimes.
Cheers and keep going mate.
Edz
Thanks Edz. I feel the same way, although that "dull pain" you talk about sometimes has a tendency to turn into a knife to the face, and the Holidays are definitely one of those times. Sometimes, I just need to whine. ha.
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Well I hope all you guys had a Merry Christmas (as Merry as can be given what we are all going through). Christmas for me was ok, really just spent it hanging around the house with the dogs and watching the last season of "24". Nothing too crazy, but fairly relaxing so it wasn't too bad, glad its over though.
I find myself very IMPATIENT, IMPULSIVE and unable to be satisfied lately, all things that I have had under control for the past 3 months and now all of a sudden their coming out again. Things between W and I are going better, we have been good for the past few days and are having an "on" week if that makes any sense. Facetiming/Skype with the W did NOT happen on Christmas morning, which kinda bothered me a little bit but I didn't say much because I half expected it not to happen. W did tell me that she was feeling pretty blue and didn't do much and ironically was saying she couldn't wait for Christmas to be over as well and was avoiding looking at everyones FB posts (you'd think she was the LBS...)
But going back to my point, I am very impatient lately and just cant be pleased. W called me twice today and was fairly good about texting me while she was at work (which if you've been keeping up with my thread was a HUGE pet peeve of mine). But because we weren't on the phone as long as I wanted to be, I wasn't happy (i didn't tell her this but I'm just not). Usually I would be ecstatic that she called twice just to talk. But no. Not anymore. I am also going back to Georgia for some stuff next week, and asked her if she wanted to grab dinner. She said she'd tell me in the morning. But because she didn't JUMP at the opportunity and didn't say OMG YES!!! I'm not happy.
And I have been asking myself WHY? I'm enjoying my life, there's so many things that I have learned and experienced since this whole thing happened, but why can't I be satisfied lately, especially when things are going good with W? I've come up with..."if you give TLEE a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk." "If you give TLEE a glass of milk, he's going to want a bowl of Honey Smacks Cereal." (ok not really but you get where I'm going with this).
Being impatient, impulsive and not able to be satisfied are going to severely hinder my DBing efforts if i let it continue/show. I need to look back at where I started from 3 months ago, which is very minimal texting and no phone calls, and focus on the positive stuff. Now, I usually get woken up by a text from W at like 6am and then a phone call somewhere in the day just to talk and see how things are going (on good weeks). W has expressed remorse a couple times and is now "not sure what she wants from us" instead of D, which hasn't been brought up since week 1. We've even started exchanging pictures of ourselves to each other. So it's times like this where I really need to just shut up and color because 3 months is nothing in the big picture. Sure, I would LOVE if my W came home now and spent the New Year with me but its not going to happen. DBing takes a lot of time, at least 6 months on average I think, and I'm already making a lot of progress.
Sorry, I guess the purpose of this post was really just so I can write down that I need to have a better PMA and keep looking at the positives instead of the negatives- which really at this point, is just me not being happy with where we are at, even though its going forward.
Ok, I'm gonna STFU now.
Nothing wrong with journaling mate.
I think the agreed timeframe before was will show a change in behaviour is a month for every year of the relationship. For me you can imagine the delight!
As for was behaving like the lbs they are, in their script, the wounded party. Possibly justifiably - certainly my m had issues on both sides most all of which could have been resolved with better communications - even if that's not the case it is in their perception and nothing we as the lbhs's can do or say can impact that script,when we divert from it and fail to reinforce their perceptions we make them mad / quiet but mind reading or attempting to placate will just make it worse as I did in the first month or so.
Sounds to me like you're making great progress for such a short timeframe, relax, calm yourself, focus on your life and gal and 180s and fight the urge to set deadlines (I understand and am guilty of this - it must be fixed before the end of the month,my birthday,Christmas...) The time it takes will be the time it takes or you will reach a stage where you decide to move on, either will see you feel better, live better and have a better life by letting yourself detatch something I've fought with since day 1 with the books and forum but have a semi grip on now.
As vanilla has said it doesn't mean not caring, its loving and standing for our relationships but without allowing ourselves to be destroyed by the situation.
Take it easy mate, keep posting, you'll be OK whatever happens work on being the best you you can be
Edz
Being impatient, impulsive and not able to be satisfied are going to severely hinder my DBing efforts if i let it continue/show.
Impatient, impulsive and not being able to be satisfied. Are you working on these? Because they can severely hinder other areas of your life (aside from DB) if you continue to let those behaviors reign supreme. I just read this on maybell's thread. And it hit me in several places, and I thought of your post tonight and felt I should share with you (since we're two peas in a pod and all).
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1867000&page=1
C, from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU for directing me to that post. Several things that stuck out and were definitely describing exactly what I am feeing right now.
RE: I want results now, I NEED RESULTS NOW! Read those words, think about the times that you yourself may have even said those things or something similar or even just thought about it. Reflect on how needy you've become, how insecure you've become, how unattractive that behavior really is: ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!
And...ROGER. Pretty sure I think this way every single second every day. How I want results to happen RIGHT NOW. Well...this ties in to the next thought..
RE: your marriage isn't a microwave dinner and you aren't going to be able to nuke it and make it ready in 30 seconds/ The repair process takes time, it takes a long time to heal a heart, it takes a long time to rebuild trust, it takes a long time to fix a relationship because it took a long time to break it.
In my case...about a year. Not necessarily from big things, just lack of communicating between the both of us, but I definitely could have and should have done my part in telling W what was actually bothering me, that 90% of it if not more, had NOTHING to do with her. I need to understand this point...it will NOT be fixed NOW.
RE: LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you
This point hit me the hardest because it is literally what I posted earlier. My W IS calling me and texting me and very comfortable with me on most days. Progress is REALLY being made. But after about 1-1.5 months of REAL progress...I have felt SOOO many times that ok..WHEN do we talk about reconciling. I actually wrote this down in my list of questions to ask DB Coach..."now that things are going well, WHEN DO WE TALK about reconciling. (insert foot in mouth here). This will take much longer than 1.5 months of "real progress"
RE: the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing!
POINT (censored) taken
RE: Allow them the same courtesy, to heal within their own amount of time, allow them the choice of forgiving you and realize that no one owes you anything
My W has expressed this. She has said she is still angry and hurt sometimes. Not all the time like before, but she has said she sometimes does feel like she can move on and forgive. But I need to give it more TIME.
RE: If you pray to GOD (and if you don't maybe you should but then again, that is YOUR choice), pray for CLARITY so that you have a clear mind that your vision is restored so that you can see clearly enough to know what you want and know what you have to do. Pray for the CONFIDENCE to take action on the choices you make and pray for WISDOM to choose wisely
and PATIENCE to keep going.
C, this is exactly what I needed tonight. BTW, I'll be the middle pea in our pod. I like being little spoon.
WTF is wrong with me....I JUST wrote about having a better PMA, JUST wrote about being PATIENT and recognizing that I have made some very real, tangible progress here.
Yet...I still can't seem to turn around this negative feeling that things aren't where I'd like them to be. YES, selfish, I know..things are not where I, ME, want them to be right now. But I don't know why i have such a negative attitude right now...cant seem to shake it.
Also extremely irritated because its been 4 days, 4 days since i had that "i dislike how you are extremely slow at responding/ignore my texts" with W, to which she replied "I am sorry you feel that way, it's not my intent, I will try harder to make sure that doesn't happen anymore." WELL...its happening. Again. I had a feeling it would, but i didn't think it would be this quickly. A lot of good it did talking to her about it...yea I am glad i got it off my chest and it helped my patience a little bit...but now its happening again and it's not like I can bring it up again, because thats not going to do any good. Thats gonna come off controlling and whiny-which I recognize to an extent it is.
Oh, and she still hasn't told me if she's good for dinner next week. Not to dive into the weeds, but this is something that I have to coordinate for with someone else because this trip to Georgia isn't just me. I'm going with someone else and they're the ones doing all the driving so I have to let them know today if i plan to make an extra stop or not. But right now is probably not the best time to push this issue with W.
UGHHHH....WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME....
Why do you feel the need to control this situation and, in turn, your wife?
She gave you your answer. Go to Georgia and don't plan on seeing her. If she were to follow up or ask about having dinner, simply say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you so I had to make other plans."
Hello TLEE86. Regarding texts... May help you to let that go. To change it... stop texting her. Let her notice that and start texting you more often.
On the trip... what if you texted... "Hey W. I'm still going to Georgia with X next week. Care to join us? If you could let me know as soon as you read this, that would be fantastic."
Even better what Calibri said. Yes silence is an answer. SHe missed out. Thank you Calibri.
HP- here's the thing. She does text me. ALOT. To be honest, probably more than any WAS on this forum. We probable exchange between 15-20 texts a day, for no reason, no kids, just to BS. Add in phone calls when things are going good. This just goes back to not being satisfied with it. I'm going to re-read what C posted yesterday from Maybells thread.
In my mind, we are not where I want to be. I think that things are back to normal, meaning when I text her, she responds quickly like she used to- which she does sometimes. I am wanting things to progress faster than they are. To be where we call each other on the way to work and text throughout the day. I HAVE TO GET IT THROUGH MY THICK HEAD that THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN RIGHT AWAY.
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Calibri- Why do I feel the need to control this situation...and in turn my W or at least her actions. It just in my personality. You see, I don't even recognize this as controlling until you just brought it up. I thought of it as...being polite to respond quickly when someone reaches out to you. This is what I have been struggling with. Things that I don't even see as controlling seem to be.
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C, HP- thank you both for you're advice on dinner with her. I am just going to go to Georgia, and if she brings it up, I'll see if i have anything planned at the time. If not, we'll have a nice dinner, if I do, then she missed out. Thank you both for listening to me, I've just been so negative and moody lately. Maybe its my time of the month.
Ok, I need to STFU now. I sound like an ungrateful child right. And i can even hear it in my own posts. "I want this, I want that, its not where I want it to be.." I, I , I....
Gonna go for a run, i have a feeling i am going to CRUSH this 5miler.
Last thought and I'm cutting myself off for the day. This whole "ME, ME, ME" attitude is EXACTLY why I am even on this forum. Because everything became about me. Not my M, not my W.
So right now. I am asking myself...
1. Is my W happy and is there anything I can do to support her?
She is stressed with everything and i have been very supportive of her. Very rarely, do i voice my unhappiness with her. So I need to continue doing this
2. What will help my M in the long run?
To continue GAL, and to keep letting my W run her course. She is learning her own lessons along the way, and even though she doesn't share them all with me, she is learning. We need to keep growing independently before growing together
3. What can I do in the meantime to work on my M and myself?
Stand BESIDE my W, instead of in front of her or behind her. In front of her, meaning work on my 180s and do not criticize her or give her advice. Don't be an obstacle she has to overcome. Behind her, meaning do not push her to do things that she is not ready for. Stand BESIDE her, meaning I need to be there to (metaphorically) hold her hand and walk this journey with her because I am learning myself.
GAL, 180s, PATIENCE, recognize progress is being made, much faster than i would have thought.
I'm done for the day, at least on my own thread.
Tlee,
Thanks for your last post. In my opinion you are make a very strong and brilliant progress. You are becoming a better person.
Maybe you don't even realize that after 1.5 months you are now questioning your faults, your the same behavior, your weaknesses and this is exactly what DB is all about.
It takes time to process all the pain from a separation. It's mental and real physical pain. The day I put my face on the floor and threw up with pain I decide to give my hand and life to GOD, I put my life, future, M/R and my pain in God's hands and asked for help.
It's a long process not just for the WAS but for us too. We need to digest all the grief stages and yet try to be upbeat, nice, calm and show compassion, gentleness, kindness. It's a lot and that's why many people fail to recover their M. It's just very hard to stay focus and be persistent.
You are doing great, now that you understand so much about patience, time, space, getting yourself professional help, evaluate your behaviors and correct the ones that bother you.
Don't beat yourself up, learn every day. Your W certainly had her share on the deterioration of the M. Maybe she knows that very well.
The bottom line is that you are becoming a better person, not only for your W, but most important for yourself to look in the mirror and feel very proud. It's very important to love yourself and who you are.
Built your confidence, respect yourself and feel good a little bit every day. Instead of measuring your W, which by the way you can't control, measure yourself, try to see every day how far you are in your personal progress inside your personal journey.
I have been learning with you, and look at this, I am so much older then you. Still learning, still having hope, still fighting to became a better person.
I am sure you will find peace inside your heart and slowly have the patience you need. Remember, it's a process and does not happen over night.
You will get there, it's normal for all of us here. At first, you feel so much destruction that it's hard to have clarity, but with time things start getting better.
Work on some detachment, you will feel better. I had a hard time with it. Tough that if I detach I need to let go, but it's the opposite, if you detach them the WAS feels the difference on you, they feel the reality of maybe loosing you, that you are slipping through their fingers and you become someone for them again.
Maybe it's not about repairing you old M, not about recovering your W and the same R. It's more like falling in love all over again, another person, another R and maybe another M. Think why your wife was attracted to you in the first place, who were you when that happen, what were you doing and how did you behave, maybe start there.
I am so proud of a man like you. Your values are important and she will be a fool to let you go.
Hugs,
Pink
Tlee,
I have read your posts and you seem to be making strides quickly. I am not a vet by any stretch of the imagination, but I see some who have been here longer than I are giving you great feedback. I struggle with that detachment from my now XH because he texts or e-mails almost daily. He was the WAS in our situation, but right now, I need him to be away from me to have time to process.
Hang in there and keep posting. The vets around here are AMAZING! My best to you.
Pink- thank you so much for that post. Your words seem to have a way of carrying warmth and are really truly from the heart. I sincerely appreciate all the kind words you have said to me the past month. I really am thankful for people like you on this forum that can help keep up a positive attitude.
Dawn- thank you for your feedback. To be honest your post came at an awesome time because I was feeling pretty blue at the time so I appreciate you taking the time to read through my thread. I haven't read through your sitch yet, but I promise I will, especially given that we both seem to be having daily interactions with our W/H and are having difficulty dealing with it.
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Well first off, I did crush my 5miler yesterday, set a new PR of 33:10! And I'm back in GA, at least for the week.
Next, as I've mentioned countless times, I've been feeling pretty blue lately, probably because of the Holidays. There are so many times where I just wanted to call it quits and say i cant do it anymore. Especially when things get rough. Today, I was just cleaning up my email inbox (I had maybe 5,000 unread messages) and funny enough, was able to gain some insight on my own sitch.
I came across thousands of emails between W and I during the first few years we were together. I made everything about her, or about me and her. So much love, laughter and selflessness in our relationship. All I wanted to do was be with her. She gave up so much to be with me and put my happiness above everything else. And it worked, because I did the same.
Then as I was coming across the later emails, for the past 1-1.5 years, it became all about me. I didn't convey the love or laughter anymore. Instead, all I saw was SELFISHNESS. "Hey babe send me my certificates/diplomas so I can upload them and get promoted." "Hey babe send me that cross fit video of my workout yesterday." "Hey, can you record my workout for me later?" And this was constant. Everyday pretty much. I don't have access to our texts, but I'm sure it was the same.
There was no more love in my messages to her...did i love her the same? Yea i did. But i didn't show it.
For the first time today, I took the time to figure out mine and her Love Languages. And I remember maybe 8 months ago, W told me while crying, she didn't even know what my LL was. And I dismissed it. I was thinking...WTF IS A LL?
I am Quality Time and Words of Affirmation. Surprising to me. I thought I would be more Physical Touch but it all makes sense now. I need to spend quality time with my W. UNINTERRUPTED, completely dedicated, focused time with W. Which is why I get so upset when she doesn't return my messages/calls in a timely manner. Because she's not showing "dedication/committment." She would never take her phone out when we were first married while at dinner/home. But then slowly we both did it. (Yes I realize every M probably does this). But I didn't treat her like like I was scared to lose her. Words of Affirmation. Interesting also, because going through these old emails, all she would say to me is how much she loved me and why she loved me. Thats what I needed. And I was a happier person because of it, and in turn treated her much more lovingly.
But enough about me.
My W's LL are Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch. I'm glad I know that now. Words of Affirmation, I need to show her and validate her that she is important. That what she says and does actually matters and I don't dismiss it like I started doing. That she is my equal. Again, which is why validating everything she does is so important because it just shows that I am listening to her. First date, she talked for 5 hours in a restaurant, I don't think I got a word in, but i listened to her and never checked my phone. I stopped doing that. Physical touch, besides sex, my W needs to be coddled and held, not just a kiss good morning or goodbye. Obviously cant do that now, but it still explains why when she hugs me, we hug for minutes at a time when we see each other now.
Anyways, I guess bottom line, i cant even blame my W for being unhappy. I became a completely different person this past year. All she wanted was to spend time with me, to talk to me and all she looked forward to was that when I was deployed. But I came home and then I went through my own "fog," because of work. And when I left this past time, she just became even more unhappy and in her desperation, she left. It took me a long time to screw this up, and now that I am out of the fog, my W is in her own. She stuck by me, so I will stick by her.
I want to text/call her and apologize again, I haven't done that since the very beginning of all this. I want to tell her "hey, remember when you were crying because you're therapist asked you what my Love Language was and you said you couldn't even tell because I was just..gone....well its Words of Affirmation and Quality Time."
I don't think Im actually going to do that, but...still, funny how just cleaning up my inbox can make me realize just how selfish i became.
Good introspection TLEE86. These revelations will help you going forward. Your thought to not text her is right on. As you already know... let her initiate that conversation. Then you bring up you discovered this about yourself because "You're thinking about things." Don't tell her it's b/c you want to save your M. Good for you. Keep going.
Thanks HP- its just weird when/how these "revelations" come up you know? i had no intention of thinking about my M yesterday, but just cleaning up my emails. Somehow that turned into something very productive!
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Quick side note before my actual post... Remember that serious EX-BF that emailed my W out of the blue, and she told me about it, and I got all angry (didn't express this to her, just on here) because she was texting him again? Well, she texted me again today and told me that she was getting...frustrated? at his lack of respect for her. I guess she said she's been texting him a few times, just casual hey how are you stuff, but he has no idea what is going on between me and her, and he's just flirting it up like crazy and its starting to piss her off because he has no idea whats going on, and he's flirting with a M woman still. So...point is, I'm glad i didn't bring this up to her, sounds like he's digging his own grave. I jokingly offered to take care of it (i was half joking, she knows i'd crush his soul), but she said she'd take care of it. I'm glad she told me about it, idk why she did, but at least it just proves that sometimes STFU works and you just gotta let it play out.
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I am wondering if there is more that I should and need to be doing, or doing something different. I'm looking back at my actions the last 3 months, and wonder if now is the time where I just keep doing what I'm doing and continue the grind, or if theres something that needs to be changed. I feel like I'm in a rut.
- W and I's relationship has significantly improved the past 3 months. We haven't had an argument since...week 2?
- Yes, I complain about communication issues with W, but truth be told, I think I'm doing fairly well here. Seems like its just me wanting things to progress faster than they are. We text everyday, and we talk on the phone sometimes daily, sometimes less, depends on her mood. And what we talk about is just friendly stuff, no R/M talks.
- W has shown remorse twice and 2 weeks ago said she doesn't know if she made the right choice and wonders what she left all this behind for.
- My 180s seem to be working, I need to continue to focus on them because I do slip up sometimes, not bad enough to set me back, but thankfully i post it on here and you guys call me out.
- GAL, this is going fine. I work out everyday, doing very well at work, and am taking care of the dogs. I can post about this, but theres not too much to say?
Honestly, right now this seems more about W then it is about me. I have been reading self-help books, IC, DB Coach, reflecting, looking at me, PRAYING (I have never prayed this much before), but I really feel like this is about my W. (OMG side note, my Golden just farted like 6 times in a row as I'm typing this, the smell is unbearable. She surprised herself and was looking at her own a$$. HAHAHA) Anyways...W is determined to "make it on her own" because she never had that experience to make her own money, and she is trying to "find herself" again and doesn't know what she wants with me and her. Seems like the small changes I make, she has noticed, at least just the few times I've seen her and when we hang out, everything is peachy. Almost like old times.
I guess I wonder...am I just missing out on doing something? is there something else i should be doing or do i just keep up the grind until she hopefully changes her mind?
I feel like she is honest with me, for the most part, (OMG my Golden....please make her stop...another 3 times, i need to break out the gas mask- this is really difficult to be serious about when I cant stop laughing and holding my nose). The only thing I wonder about is her and her roommate. I know there is no PA going on, and Idk about an EA...but i never bring it up because at the end of the day, i cant change that, and unless things are progressing on both fronts for her, with me and him, then theres not much i can do. Is there something else i need to be working on???? My posts just seem to be bitching that things are not moving as fast as they should be...idk if there are any "real issues" like kids schedules, solving arguments, etc etc that i can even bring up since none of it applies??
Ok. I think you're doing great. You aren't getting spew, your W is talking to you, you're in good shape. Hell, your W is talking to you.
Buuuuuut...........
What I'm seeing is control starting to creep in a bit. Not as obvious as your post a few days ago, but it's there under the surface. It's starting out as impatience but has the potential to blow up. I say these because my eyes have been opened about my need to control things, and I'm starting to see small similarities between the two. I think that might be worth looking at.
Also, what are your goals for the new year? It can be stupid or fun. How are you going to work towards them?
Mine: I'm cutting my hair and probably dying it a new color on Friday. New wardrobe coming in, signed up for a crossfit comp in April and starting tomorrow I start training my ass off for it. I need to work on my snatch, as that's where I'm very weak as well as Kipping. I'm a beast at rowing and hang power cleans, jump roping and one arm kettle bell snatches. I need to start running again so I can not die on the 800 meters in class. A bunch of us are talking about going to regionals to watch, so that'll be fun.
Also, things you can post about that's not bitching about progress or whatnot. What are the books you're reading (self help wise) have you made new discoveries?
While I can understand that you think it's more about your W (I think my sitch is more about my H) what can TL(that's your new nickname until I bust it down to T) but who do you want to be as a man, how are you going to prevent it from being the TL show in the future? Why did you become all about you and your job?
Those are the things that you should be working on. Not just sitting back and waiting for your W to change her mind.
PS, saw you're in GA, you're kind of in my neck of the woods right now, so I wave to you from a state or so away.
OMG.....I just had the WORST conversation with W in 3 months....
I should have saw it coming. All the things pointed in the WRONG direction...
- Bottom line, her roommates W fb'd me. in JULY. I didn't get this message until now. Why? Because my W had gone on my FB while I was gone and blocked her. I didn't even know who this person was. So I fb'd her back (first mistake). Then, she proceeded to tell me that W and her H were talking for hours on the phone everyday while I was gone and that he supposedly told her that they are "dating." I then call my W (second mistake) and proceed to talk to her about EVERYTHINGGGGG (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, infinity mistake).
I started calmly, told W that his W fb'd me and told me how much they were talking and that its just strange how, in June before I left, everything was ok. Then, all of a sudden when my W had her breakdown in July, she started talking to him and then when I come home, she leaves me and goes to stay at his place. I know 100% that she didn't leave me for him, but i know that he had a big part in convincing her that if she was alone and unhappy, she needed to leave. She replied, "if I really left you for him, don't you think i would be in a much happier, less stressed place right now?" And touché, she's got a point. She is NOT happy right now. Quite the opposite
Then it went all downhill. I brought up how she is putting me in an impossible situation right now, and how i am trying to support her in everything she's doing, how i feel like I've been a much better person because of all this, and that I'm living in this house that she picked out and its close to everything that she could possibly want and how its just so perfect..and she says i don't want to know those things, and i said well thats because you just don't want to hear what you are missing out...omg...Tim just STFU...
But I didn't. I even proceeded to ask her do you even wonder if you made the right choice by leaving...(she said yes she's wondered this before)...and of course tonight she says no, not right now but i have to see this choice through...FML just be quiet Tim....
I went on and said do you plan on moving out and getting your own place...and she said yea actually i do...and i started talking about $...and how I'm paying for everything...and she started saying are you threatening me and i said no...
And then yea...45minutes later, I think I just set myself back to square one...I should never have had this conversation at 11pm at night, I should never have fb'd her roommates W back... I should have controlled myself more...
I will say this though..i texted her after and said
"I'm sorry. If we can talk about this more calmly tomorrow, I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry for yelling but its probably a good idea to have this conversation when we are more calm, is that ok with you?"
W: I'm sorry too. I'm just tired and cranky, yes I'll talk to you tomorrow I think thats a good idea too. Plus you basically said I look ugly in pictures now which was rude hah so I know you're cranky. I'll talk to you in a few hours."
I'm going to post what I think I should say in a second, but PLEASEEEE any advice on what i should say in this conversation to her tomorrow...I don't think I effed it up THAT bad...but my god WHY did i even talk to this guys W...THOUGHTS????
OMG.....I just had the WORST conversation with W in 3 months....
Don't worry, there will be many more to come. Don't mind bitchy mcbitcherson over here - I've had a rough night.
- Bottom line, her roommates W fb'd me. in JULY. I didn't get this message until now. Why? Because my W had gone on my FB while I was gone and blocked her. I didn't even know who this person was. So I fb'd her back (first mistake). Then, she proceeded to tell me that W and her H were talking for hours on the phone everyday while I was gone and that he supposedly told her that they are "dating." I then call my W (second mistake) and proceed to talk to her about EVERYTHINGGGGG (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, infinity mistake).
Ok, lots to ponder here. A) why is your w blocking people on your FB? B)is this the roommate/OM? C)where is his W in all of this? Is she staying in the apartment with your W and roommate/OM? D) dating. That's interesting.
I started calmly, told W that his W fb'd me and told me how much they were talking and that its just strange how, in June before I left, everything was ok. Then, all of a sudden when my W had her breakdown in July, she started talking to him and then when I come home, she leaves me and goes to stay at his place. I know 100% that she didn't leave me for him, but i know that he had a big part in convincing her that if she was alone and unhappy, she needed to leave. She replied, "if I really left you for him, don't you think i would be in a much happier, less stressed place right now?" And touché, she's got a point. She is NOT happy right now. Quite the opposite
Ehhhhhhh. I'm not going to comment on this one fully yet. I'm going to ponder it.
Then it went all downhill. I brought up how she is putting me in an impossible situation right now, and how i am trying to support her in everything she's doing,
Ohhhhh boy, not the right time for this conversation.
how i feel like I've been a much better person because of all this
Did you say it exactly like that? Because I would take that as "hey I'm a much better person now that you walked out on me - look at what you're missing!!!"
, and that I'm living in this house that she picked out and its close to everything that she could possibly want and how its just so perfect..and she says i don't want to know those things, and i said well thats because you just don't want to hear what you are missing out...omg...Tim just STFU...
I mean, I'ves side way, way worse but that was probably not the route you want to go.
But I didn't. I even proceeded to ask her do you even wonder if you made the right choice by leaving...(she said yes she's wondered this before)...and of course tonight she says no, not right now but i have to see this choice through...FML just be quiet Tim....
Incoming 2x4. What was she supposed to say, yes T, now that you've asked me, I've suddenly seen the light? No more of that, Kay?
I went on and said do you plan on moving out and getting your own place...and she said yea actually i do...and i started talking about $...and how I'm paying for everything...and she started saying are you threatening me and i said no...
So I'm taking you still haven't had the finance conversation with her? What exactly are you paying? You NEED to have the finance conversation with her. Especially since you brought it up and she feels threatened.
And then yea...45minutes later, I think I just set myself back to square one...I should never have had this conversation at 11pm at night, I should never have fb'd her roommates W back... I should have controlled myself more...
You may not be to square one, but you have set yourself back. A good friend of mine told me to never have serious conversations with a spouse after it gets dark. Might be worth thinking.
"I'm sorry. If we can talk about this more calmly tomorrow, I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry for yelling but its probably a good idea to have this conversation when we are more calm, is that ok with you?"
W: I'm sorry too. I'm just tired and cranky, yes I'll talk to you tomorrow I think thats a good idea too. Plus you basically said I look ugly in pictures now which was rude hah so I know you're cranky. I'll talk to you in a few hours."
Did you really insinuate that your W looked ugly in her pictures?
Might I suggest waiting 48 hours to have the convo?
The bigger question is this: if you know W didn't leave you for this dude but suspect their might be an EA, where does this leave you? And if OM's wife got involved, it makes me wonder what's going on. What are you upset about, exactly?
Ok, plan to talk to her tomorrow about this. What I think I should say.
1. W, I am sorry for bringing up that conversation that late at night, I know you have to get up early to work. I am also sorry that I yelled and lost control of my emotions a little bit. I did not say you were ugly in your pictures lately, just that you looked tired and stressed. You are beautiful.
2. I'd like if we can be honest with each other. W, it really shocked me when I came home and you told me you wanted to leave. Before I left, we were ok and you yourself said that you had no intentions of leaving...So it was a huge surprise when I came home and you dropped that bomb on me.
3. I recognize my faults in the M and am truly sorry for putting work as a priority. I wish I could take that back, but I cant. You are my #1 priority and I am sorry that I did not communicate that to you, and you thought that the reason I was angry was because of you. Honestly, it had nothing to do with you, I was just tired and stressed from work everyday- I think you know a little bit now what that feels like. Again, I am sorry that I made you feel that way.
4. W, I want us to have an honest conversation about this. I want you to be happy, and I will support you in whatever you decide to do. It is your life and your choice. But I'd like to know what is going on between you and roommate. If this is something you want to pursue, then I will not stand in your way.
5. W, the last thing to really talk about is $. I have always said I will support you, and do not want to see you fail. But you have said you were going to this internship in JAN and now you are not going. The $ I am giving you is for you to move out and get your own place, because that is what you wanted. Do you think this is something you will be doing? If you plan to stay at this guy's apartment, thats your choice. But I am asking you, what do you think is fair as far as financially helping you if you are not moving out?
6. W, i know this is an incredibly stressful time for both of us, and I'd like to continue talking to you. To be honest, I miss it. I hate where our relationship is right now, and I would like to continue building on it.
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Idk if that is completely the wrong conversation to be having...or what...thats just what I'm writing down right now, please any and all thoughts are welcome. Apparently we'll be talking in the next few hours... we have not had a R talk in months...
I think you need to sit on this for at least 48 hours.
And I think you need to read sandys rules.
And take out the part about she now knows what it feels like to be stressed with work. That just can be construed the wrong way.
Honestly? I think you should address the finance issue in conjunction (maybe) with the OM scenario.
But I still think you should sleep on it and I will look at this again the morning when I haven't had sleeping pills in my system.
Breathe.
Ok, lots to ponder here. A) why is your w blocking people on your FB? B)is this the roommate/OM? C)where is his W in all of this? Is she staying in the apartment with your W and roommate/OM? D) dating. That's interesting.
A. I didn't know she did this, I wasn't even home. She's never done this before. I just noticed it today, and apparently she blocked her in July when I was gone.
B. Yes roommate=OM (EA probably, PA No-100% sure)
C. OM's W is separated from him, for a while, their D is final in JAN
D. Dating...I doubt it. Not in July, 99% sure of this one.
So I'm taking you still haven't had the finance conversation with her? What exactly are you paying? You NEED to have the finance conversation with her. Especially since you brought it up and she feels threatened.
No, I haven't. I was seeing what she was going to do about this internship in JAN, but now that she's not going, we have to have this conversation. I am giving her X$ every months so she can actually afford her own place because she doesn't make enough $ in her job. But if she plans on staying at his place, then theres no way I'm giving her $. I know a lot of people if not everyone will say, well thats her choice to figure it all out, if she left, no $ for her.
You may not be to square one, but you have set yourself back. A good friend of mine told me to never have serious conversations with a spouse after it gets dark. Might be worth thinking.
I don't think I'm at square one. I do think I set myself back about a week, at least until this blows over again. Im confident, i think, about that.
Did you really insinuate that your W looked ugly in her pictures?
The bigger question is this: if you know W didn't leave you for this dude but suspect their might be an EA, where does this leave you? And if OM's wife got involved, it makes me wonder what's going on. What are you upset about, exactly?
1. I didn't insinuate that she was ugly in her pictures, every picture she send me I tell her she looks great/beautiful. I just said something along the lines of..I know youre not happy and you're stressed...i could see it in your pictures, hear it in your voice (probably not the best thing to say.... =(
2. I know W did not leave me for this guy. It was not a...IM DONE WITH YOU AND THIS GUYS BETTER! No...not at all. It was more of a...I'm angry, alone, stressed, and turned to "best friend" for help. Where does that leave me...well Im pretty sure there is EA...so it doesn't leave me anywhere. Suck it up and drive on.
3. OM's W is crazy. They've had their own infidelity problems for a long time now. I stopped talking to his W on FB...it just doesn't do any good.
4. What I am upset about? I don't even know. This conversation shouldn't have happened. OM's W FB'd me and i responded because I didn't know who it was...All this does is just make me wonder what is really going on...
My thoughts? W never intended on leaving me for OM. She left because she was alone and unhappy while I was gone. OM was her "best friend" and EA naturally developed from talking on the phone for hours while I was gone (this is a [censored] feeling btw, when Im gone and to learn W has been talking to someone else on the phone) I think W doesn't know what she wants. She misses me and her sometimes but now is torn between seeing through her commitment to "finding herself and making it on her own" and what she had in our M. OM...is a distraction. I don't think there is a future there.
Feeling completely broken right now. Beyond broken...I don't think I've felt this low since this whole thing started. Maybe because its 1:30am...maybe because I had an awful conversation with my W, first bad one in almost 3 months...maybe because my head is spinning on just how deep the EA is with my W and OM...that she still denies
Scared to talk to her in the morning...scared to talk finances. But how can I enable her to continue doing what she is doing? I cant...because the more I do...the more she will continue.
One of the inspirational success stories MWD posts about is the one of David, how he showed his W unconditional love, and did things most cant/won't do. Helping her pack, paying for her new place to get her started, being that friend even when she was with OM....all kinds of selfless stuff. Ive been trying for the past 3 months to be "David." Helping her through everything, putting my needs last, talking to her, comforting her, telling her it will be ok, financially supporting her, being that friend. But even David drew the line somewhere, and stopped paying for things once she left. To my knowledge, he helped pay for her place, but then stopped once she left. I have to stop enabling W...and I'm scared to tell her this. Scared that even though Ive rocked the boat now tonight with this conversation, Im scared that in the morning when we talk again, and i bring up not enabling her, that i will capsize this already sinking ship
Recently read post of "the quick solution and being unique" on Maybells thread (thanks C for posting it to mine). I guess ill be stereotypical and say i do believe my sitch is unique. My W never meant to leave me, her own words. We didn't have a string of fights over a few months that led to a big blow up BD. We didn't have a conversation about how unhappy she was. Quite the opposite. She was excited, planning to have kids, excited for our move, ready to move to our next place, all kinds of stuff in the months leading up to me being gone. Then I left. for 3 months. And came home to a resentful, angry, lonely W who had made up her mind when I wasn't even home.
I feel like giving up, and then I see pictures of W and I and how happy we were and i get my mojo back to try again. But right now, i feel completely broken, completely lost, and just done. I almost wish W would just say T, I'm going to divorce you. Then at least the healing can begin...but this limbo is destroying every part of me. It hasn't affected work yet, but i can feel it creeping in, quickly. But I don't want to divorce W. At all.
Idk what to do anymore. Ive been doing very well at DB until tonight, making some actual progress, and now I'm just crushed. And I don't want to have this talk with her in the morning. But maybe it should have happened long ago, idk.
Thing is...besides everything else that may get brought up, this financial talk is just...idk what to say. If she moves out of his place, and gets her own like she's saying...she cant afford it without my help. Sh*t right now she cant even afford her car by herself..she just doesn't make enough $. So...how long is this gravy train gonna keep going??? If she moves out, and I help her pay for her rent every month, how is this really doing anything on her own? Then if she doesn't move out because i stop enabling her financially, doesn't that force her to stay with OM, and allow EA to turn into PA?
But then again, maybe moving in with OM and having to deal with real issues like $ may give her that reality check she needs that life is (censored) rough, and welcome to my life where I had to be the one to take care of everything while you got to sit at home all day...which obviously didn't prove to be a good thing anyways...But I don't know if our relationship can handle that. She will turn angry and bitter, and I keep looking at people like HP, who did drop that rope and cut everything off and got his own place...but it doesn't seem like its going very well either in terms of him and W communicating..but maybe thats just the beginning part and it will eventually pick back up??? Idk..lots of thoughts...brain cant process this much stuff right now.
W is determined to see her course of action through. Whether its the right choice or not, she needs to see it through. And theres not a thing I can do about it.
I feel like I hit rock bottom. I wish I never left for (censored) Ranger School. That tab on my shoulder means absolutely nothing to me now. Its just a constant reminder that W made the decision to leave me while I was gone. Why did I leave. I wish I never did.
Did you talk to her this morning?
If you haven't, might be best to wait until cooler heads prevail and you aren't tired, and upset and you're in a place where you can process things right now.
I've got more to respond -- but it'll have to wait until my lunch break later this afternoon.
Talked with W this morning- it went...ok.
- Bottom line, she is moving out of OM's place either next month or in February. I did talk to her about $...finally.
- Right now, I told her that as long as she stays in OM apartment, I won't help her financially. She hasn't said anything back yet- this was over email.
- I'm not sure thats even the right move. She's already taking a step by moving out of OM apartment- we'll see if and when this actually happens. I don't know if I should drive the knife further in by saying BTW, I'm cutting you off? Or do I help her a little bit? I keep reading some peoples threads in similar spots with OM. No PA with my W, but most likely EA. All the vets are encouraging to cut her off and let her deal with it.
"Its not about what makes your W nice to you, but what steps she is taking to make the M work."
1. W is moving out of OM apartment, but not because she wants to work on the M. But because she wants to find herself and learn what it is like to be independent and make/manage your own $
2. She still denies EA with OM...
3. Before I lost it yesterday night and set myself back, W and I were in constant communication. Shouldn't this be a step towards the M? Cant work on a M if we don't talk...
4. The only time W has shown remorse and regret for this whole situation was the day before I left for Texas and went to dinner with her. When she realized I was moving to a new place without her, is when she really started questioning things. But now that that "shock" is over...how do I continue to show moving on without her? Just GAL? DB Coach suggested I respond QUICKER to text messages and continue answering her calls so thats not really an option to not text her back and make her wonder that way.
- Something I am struggling with is the whole..."friendly neighbor" concept. Everyone that has a WAW in an active ongoing A is doing this "friendly neighbor." But their WAW's are in both a PA and EA and have admitted it. My W is not in a PA and will not admit to an EA. Do I still treat her like a "friendly neighbor" even though her complaint was that I was never emotionally there?
- To this point, in 3 months, I have been treating her like a W, and it seems to have helped pick up our communication and seemed to be working. Thoughts?
Talked with W this morning- it went...ok.
- Right now, I told her that as long as she stays in OM apartment, I won't help her financially. She hasn't said anything back yet- this was over email.
How did you word this? It seems open ended, like, I won't support you while you're in OM's apartment, but I may help you otherwise.
- I'm not sure thats even the right move. She's already taking a step by moving out of OM apartment- we'll see if and when this actually happens. I don't know if I should drive the knife further in by saying BTW, I'm cutting you off? Or do I help her a little bit? I keep reading some peoples threads in similar spots with OM. No PA with my W, but most likely EA. All the vets are encouraging to cut her off and let her deal with it.
What do YOU want to do? And for how long? So, if she moves out of the OM's apartment, are you willing to support her? For how long? 3 months, 6 months, a year? Is this solely your money or both of your money? My opinion? She wants to be independent and figure herself out -- then she needs to do it on her own dime. It's going to be hard on her? Yeah, well, so is life. That a decision she faces when she walks out and wants to find herself. If I had left my H, I wouldn't expect (nor want) any financial help from him, especially with no kids involved. On the flip side, my H moved out -- and he isn't touching our shared account at all. His paycheck goes into that account - assuring that I'm not going to be hurting because of his choice. This may change if he ever moves out of the hotel batcave, but at this point -- he's made arrangements to make sure what little bills he has on his own (which, really would be rent and food) are covered on his own or *coughparentscoughcough* But at the end of the day, I respect the hell out of him for making sure that I'm financially stable during this period.
"Its not about what makes your W nice to you, but what steps she is taking to make the M work."
1. W is moving out of OM apartment, but not because she wants to work on the M. But because she wants to find herself and learn what it is like to be independent and make/manage your own $
2. She still denies EA with OM...
3. Before I lost it yesterday night and set myself back, W and I were in constant communication. Shouldn't this be a step towards the M? Cant work on a M if we don't talk...
I see her doing things to work on herself. And, one could say that working on herself is indirectly working on the M. But T, there's a difference between constant talking and "working on the marriage communication." I'm not privy to the conversations you're having, but I don't think that chit chatting about the weather means you're actually communicating. These chats may make her feel like you're being more attentive and may open her mind towards thinking about a reconciliation. And you can work on the M by talking, but until she's ready to work on it---it's just conversations....you know? I know I'm not wording this the most cohesive way.....
4. The only time W has shown remorse and regret for this whole situation was the day before I left for Texas and went to dinner with her. When she realized I was moving to a new place without her, is when she really started questioning things.
How did she actually show remorse?
But now that that "shock" is over...how do I continue to show moving on without her? Just GAL? DB Coach suggested I respond QUICKER to text messages and continue answering her calls so thats not really an option to not text her back and make her wonder that way.
Dude -- you have to settle in for the long haul. I get the sense that while you're going to work, working out, etc....you're not really living. That you're waiting for her to wake up and want to come home. She may see that as well. You need to GAL, you need to work on yourself. She's a part of your life,
but she's not your entire life. You have to figure out how to be ok if she doesn't come back. Look at some of the vets -- Labug (who is my spirit guru) was S for 2.5 years. 25years was Dbing for 3+ years I think. Starskey for a year I believe. This is not a quick thing. I saw something from a vet that said the quickest reconciliation they've seen is 8 months. Are you going to live your life every day this way?
As a W and a Female.....I would be intrigued if my H started doing new things. Things that were out of the ordinary. Things that said "hey there's more to my H than I originally thought" Live a little. Do cool new things. Let go of your need to control the outcome of this. Sometimes doing nothing, is doing SOMETHING. I challenge you to sign up for a crossfit competition. Either individually or with a group. I have one coming up at the end of April. Do you think you can do better than me and my team?
- To this point, in 3 months, I have been treating her like a W, and it seems to have helped pick up our communication and seemed to be working. Thoughts?
Continue down your path. But don't be afraid to try new things. No more R talks, at least until she brings it up. You have to breathe. You have to get over your need to have her do this on your timeline. You have to stop the need to control the outcome.
My W never meant to leave me, her own words. We didn't have a string of fights over a few months that led to a big blow up BD. We didn't have a conversation about how unhappy she was. Quite the opposite. She was excited, planning to have kids, excited for our move, ready to move to our next place, all kinds of stuff in the months leading up to me being gone. Then I left. for 3 months. And came home to a resentful, angry, lonely W who had made up her mind when I wasn't even home.
Ok,I respectfully call BS. She may not have set out from the beginning to leave you. But she did. The "I didn't mean to leave you" sounds like she's trying to soften the blow of actually leaving you. To assuage her guilt. That's just my .02. I'm sorry -- but I don't buy into it, and I don't think it makes you situation unique.
I feel like giving up, and then I see pictures of W and I and how happy we were and i get my mojo back to try again. But right now, i feel completely broken, completely lost, and just done. I almost wish W would just say T, I'm going to divorce you. Then at least the healing can begin...but this limbo is destroying every part of me. It hasn't affected work yet, but i can feel it creeping in, quickly. But I don't want to divorce W. At all.
I think I'm the female version of you. Because that's where I am, right now. I'm scattered in the wind in a million pieces. I want answers. I want them now. I told H a few days ago if he had no intention of working this out to get his [censored] out of the house and start the paperwork. That's not what I want. At all, but I feel like I need some sort of answer. It's because I'm not in control of my life and it's freaking me out. You cannot let it affect work, especially your line of work. I've had to take several days off work to get a grip on myself during all this. You have to find an outside coping mechanism to help you with this. But if you aren't done....don't put it out there.
But then again, maybe moving in with OM and having to deal with real issues like $ may give her that reality check she needs that life is (censored) rough, and welcome to my life where I had to be the one to take care of everything while you got to sit at home all day...which obviously didn't prove to be a good thing anyways...But I don't know if our relationship can handle that. She will turn angry and bitter.....
You obviously have some anger and bitterness about the situation. This is the fourth time you've brought up your W sitting at home, and keep pointing out that you were the one taking care of all the bills while she sat at home. Are you angry that she didn't pull her weight or are you angry that she didn't stay in the life that you were providing for her? Why are you pissed that she stayed home and that you worked alot?
and I keep looking at people like HP, who did drop that rope and cut everything off and got his own place...but it doesn't seem like its going very well either in terms of him and W communicating..right now.
HP's wife is a whole different ball game, whole different sitch. You can't compare the two. I do thing that if you're struggling with what to do financially with your W, you could do what HP did and offer her assistance for 30 days and then she's on your own. But you can't compare your sitch to HP's or mine, or anyone elses.
W is determined to see her course of action through. Whether its the right choice or not, she needs to see it through. And theres not a thing I can do about it.
No. You need to let her go down the path. It may come back to you, it may not. But what path are you going to go down?
I feel like I hit rock bottom. I wish I never left for (censored) Ranger School. That tab on my shoulder means absolutely nothing to me now. Its just a constant reminder that W made the decision to leave me while I was gone. Why did I leave. I wish I never did.
Ok. I'm going to be a bitchy bossy pants here. You DO NOT apologize or feel bad for going to Ranger School. You went to Ranger school to further yourself, to further your career. To be the best solider you can be. Not everyone can be a Ranger. Dude. You're a [censored] Ranger. That's badass. You should never apologize or feel bad for the accomplishments in your life. And that's an accomplishment. That patch means you are elite, a badass, and someone to look up to. Your W made a decision for herself. Yes, she made it while you were away in Ranger school. Your wife's decision to leave does not take away from your achievements. And if you hadn't gone to Ranger school? There's a possibility it could've been something else that triggered her reaction. A class over the weekend, or another deployment. The thing is, it didn't happen because you went to Ranger school. It happened (presumably) because things weren't great in your M and she felt that she needed to leave. That's on her dude. And not on your achievements. Do not let that negative thinking in. No way.
I'm sorry if I'm being harsh today -- but, you have to cut yourself some slack. You're doing the best that you can.
What do YOU want to do? And for how long? So, if she moves out of the OM's apartment, are you willing to support her? For how long? 3 months, 6 months, a year? Is this solely your money or both of your money? My opinion? She wants to be independent and figure herself out -- then she needs to do it on her own dime. It's going to be hard on her? Yeah, well, so is life. That a decision she faces when she walks out and wants to find herself.
Yes, I talked to W again tonight. Bottom line, she is moving out, I'd guess by February, and I did communicate to her that I will not support her as long as she stays in OM apartment. I told her that I am willing to help her, but not help him. My sitch is a little tricky because the Army actually requires that I give W $X a month when we are not living in the same house. But she does know how I feel, that as long as she continues to stay where she is, I am not willing to help her. She is going to figure out her budget soon for when she does move out, how much she needs to get by. Again, it is a little different because I am required to give her "spousal support."
Divorce...was brought up. First time in 3 months. Because the Army does require I give her spousal support money, she said "Well, I'll just file the papers then and it'll solve all your (money) problems." I didn't even realize that whether intentional or not, this was a jab and a way to guilt trip me...Basically, if you don't want to help me, then I'l just divorce you. Could it be that maybe she's not getting a D because she wants continued $? Yes. But she does recognize and has acknowledged that I am not willing to go along with this charade of hers indefinitely, so she is planning her budget of getting her own place as if I am not helping her. To be honest, this thought scares me, that she is only not getting a D because she knows she cant support herself. She actually threw this in my face when she was raving mad when this all started. But as time plays out, the less likely I see this as her reason for no D because she didn't have to escalate her communication with me, from minimal to daily. She could simply have just kept it going with minimal talking and strung me along that way. I am trying to not let negative thoughts in here, because it is very easy to think that way about this.
How did she actually show remorse?
She said she is sorry for everything, and that it is all her fault. She said she doesn't know why she gave up everything she did, and that she's not sure she made the right choice. I think this is remorse? Apologizing and questioning her actions?
Dude -- you have to settle in for the long haul. I get the sense that while you're going to work, working out, etc....you're not really living. That you're waiting for her to wake up and want to come home. She may see that as well. You need to GAL, you need to work on yourself. She's a part of your life, but she's not your entire life.
As a W and a Female.....I would be intrigued if my H started doing new things. Things that were out of the ordinary. Things that said "hey there's more to my H than I originally thought" Live a little.
You called me out C. I am going through the motions, going to work, working out, etc etc. Honestly I am not enjoying it. At all. Whether W sees that or not, Idk. But yea, I need to find something I actually enjoy and live a little and not just go through the motions.
I want answers. I want them now. I told H a few days ago if he had no intention of working this out to get his [censored] out of the house and start the paperwork. That's not what I want. At all, but I feel like I need some sort of answer. It's because I'm not in control of my life and it's freaking me out/ But if you aren't done....don't put it out there.
This is exactly how I feel. I just want an answer. And I want it now. But it won't be the one I want right now. I'm not done, I think I am sometimes but it's only been 3 months. I need to keep going. I WANT to keep trying.
You obviously have some anger and bitterness about the situation. This is the fourth time you've brought up your W sitting at home, and keep pointing out that you were the one taking care of all the bills while she sat at home. Are you angry that she didn't pull her weight or are you angry that she didn't stay in the life that you were providing for her? Why are you pissed that she stayed home and that you worked alot?
I am not angry that I worked a lot and she stayed home. I am angry that because I never communicated to her that my being upset had nothing to do with her. That it was all work related, not something that she should take so personally and think it was herself.
I am bitter because I thought, "Im providing my W with everything, and she doesn't have to do anything!" And I was proud of that. But in the end, she needed something for her own, and something to make herself happy, not just rely on me. And THAT crushes me because this paragraph here, sums up our M problems. My inability to communicate stress from work to W, made my W feel unhappy and miserable because she relied 100% on me for happiness. What I thought I was doing to provide her with everything, ended up backfiring because she couldn't make herself happy.At the end of the day, I'm ok with how the conversation went. I definitely think it was much needed, to let her know I will not enable her relationship with OM, whatever that may be and though I am willing to help her out financially (Army dictated or not), I will not support her and him. I'm glad she is going to work out her own budget, and we will see if her words of "I'm moving out of OM apt" actually hold true in the next 2 months.
Until then, the only thing I can think of doing, is to back off a little for the next few days, and then continue to keep up communication with her, regardless of how "deep and meaningful" they are not. They are just friendly, surface level convo's, but it does show her that I am attentive and here to listen. Because its not the right time to talk about R/M, keeping up with convo's at least keeps communication open and the possibility of reconciling. Thoughts anyone?
Hello TLEE. Sorry things aren't looking much better for you. Yes remember this is the long haul deal. Don't make the mistake of expecting good things your W... just good DBing from yourself.
I see you're following my journey... thank you for that. I'm just going to talk, then, from my experience and the advice I've been given.
My sitch started with me believing my W was in a long distance EA. She encouraged this belief. I heard a lot of the same things you're hearing now. Not an EA... innocent contact... apologies... maybe I'm making a mistake... questioning her actions. This while we were sleeping in the same bed. All the while, though, she had already had sex with OM. I spent I 2 months trying to nice her back while clueless b/c denial.
Not to say your W doesn't feel sorry like she says. It is not, though, a reassurance you can believe in. Besides, EA is more meaningful to a W that PA.
So, she is in OM's house. She doesn't get your financial or emotional support. You communicate that lovingly without anger. If a vet has told you to pull back... stop contacting her. Let her contact you and then keep the convo short. You don't have to be mean about it. She will fight it. She will respect it. Doesn't mean you get her back sooner or at all. Means you kept your self-respect and good sense which is attractive.
After that, when she's in her own place after 2 months, she might still not get your financial or emotional support if she's still in contact with OM or not. You're GALing and moving on. You're busy and you have options. Give her space to come to you if she wants to. Until then, don't pay for her exploring her life and don't reassure her that you're waiting for her by contacting her or accepting her every contact.
Tonight, for example, I am again denying money to my W. This after she texts me about being stressed to buy a car and get an apartment. Really? She has the nerve to tell me she's stressed and ask for a break? Wow.
But, this seems to be how it is...W on some level expects you to be the strong one through this hell... maybe even hopes you will be right now. Keeps testing you to see if your as weak or mean or needy as she believes. My W questioned if I'm strong enough for this. I can't fold.
You're an Army Ranger. Women all over the world respect you for who you are. Love her you do... but, for her to love you, she has to see that you are rare and she doesn't have you and your attention and your money and your time unless she acts like your wife.
If she can't, that's her problem.
Oh... and remorse is when she says sorry... asks you to forgive her... asks about your feelings... and asks what she can do to make things right... and then tries to make things right.
HP, as always, thank you for your comments. Yes, I am following your journey and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts here on my thread.
My sitch started with me believing my W was in a long distance EA. She encouraged this belief. I heard a lot of the same things you're hearing now. Not an EA... innocent contact... apologies... maybe I'm making a mistake... questioning her actions. This while we were sleeping in the same bed. All the while, though, she had already had sex with OM. I spent I 2 months trying to nice her back while clueless b/c denial.
Not to say your W doesn't feel sorry like she says. It is not, though, a reassurance you can believe in. Besides, EA is more meaningful to a W that PA.
I 100% agree EA is more meaningful then PA. What concerns me is that this isn't some random stranger she met. This is a guy she has considered a "best friend" for a long time. So the emotional attachment is already there. Trust me, I wish it would have just been a one night stand. Id rather (knock on wood) have a PA then an EA. But W denies it...continues to deny it. Nothing I can say about this.
So, she is in OM's house. She doesn't get your financial or emotional support. You communicate that lovingly without anger. If a vet has told you to pull back... stop contacting her. Let her contact you and then keep the convo short. You don't have to be mean about it. She will fight it. She will respect it. Doesn't mean you get her back sooner or at all. Means you kept your self-respect and good sense which is attractive.
After that, when she's in her own place after 2 months, she might still not get your financial or emotional support if she's still in contact with OM or not. You're GALing and moving on. You're busy and you have options. Give her space to come to you if she wants to. Until then, don't pay for her exploring her life and don't reassure her that you're waiting for her by contacting her or accepting her every contact.
This seriously confuses me. Vets here all say "be a friendly neighbor, cut off unnecessary contact with her, don't satisfy her emotional needs." My DB Coach has told me to MATCH her contact, and to continue staying on friendly terms with W, but just to keep phone calls shorter and less than 15minutes. And keep text messages shorter as well. But do not ignore her messages, and to answer her quickly, not wait 30minutes as Ive been doing...seems to be the OPPOSITE advice of vets here...strange...thoughts on this?
Financially, I have told W today that I will not support her as long as she continues to stay in OM apartment, and she is leaving (supposedly). By Army regulation though, I am supposed to give her spousal support $ every month, so when she leaves OM apartment, I feel ok helping her financially, at least for now.
But, this seems to be how it is...W on some level expects you to be the strong one through this hell... maybe even hopes you will be right now. Keeps testing you to see if your as weak or mean or needy as she believes. My W questioned if I'm strong enough for this. I can't fold.
You're an Army Ranger. Women all over the world respect you for who you are. Love her you do... but, for her to love you, she has to see that you are rare and she doesn't have you and your attention and your money and your time unless she acts like your wife.
Yes, COMPLETELY AGREE. W says that she feels that I should be able to come to her when things are not going well for me, and that if I need help from her in any way, that I can easily do it and she will help. Is she insane? Does she really think that I will go to her for anything right now? That is the most unattractive thing I can do, to ask her for help. I don't think my W is consciously testing me to see if I am strong enough for this, but I do have to prove to her that I can handle her emotions. I think all WAW's test their LBH's this way, just unconsciously. If we fail this emotional roller coaster test, its just confirmation for them that they made the right choice.
RE: Army Ranger. I thank you and C for putting so much emphasis into this. But that has little to do with anything. All that proves is I can suck it up for a long time and be tired and dirty and do things that a lot of soldiers cant/won't. But let me tell you something. "Sucking it up" when life is miserable because you're tired, hungry, dirty and walking for miles and miles with a heavy a$$ ruck is NOTHING compared to the emotional hell we are all going through. My "happy place" at Ranger School was my W, and just picturing how happy I would be to see her again. Little did i know, she was thinking the opposite the whole time I was gone.
I'd go through anything else in the world besides do what we are all doing now. Thanks for checking in HP. I apologize I haven't been too active on other peoples threads the last few days, been kinda down in the dumps worse than usual.
TLEE, I'm sorry you're hurting, but I want to promise, you can get through this.
There aren't a lot of people on the boards these days that were around during my worst stretches over the summer. I don't even know how I got through the summer. I had gigantic meltdowns for days. I was miserable.
I have been going through this for a year and a half. I fought it like he!! The first ten months. It was inconceivable to me -- truly unimaginable -- that my H could betray me like that.
As soon as I started acknowledging that this is my reality, things started getting a lot easier. I stopped speaking to my H about anything besides kids & finances the 3rd of October and things got enormously better much more quickly. Contact with him is kind of deadly to me.
I can see him more objectively these days and the sting is different. The occasional moderately positive interaction doesn't make me impatient anymore. I don't know how detached I am, but I'm a lot more at peace.
Things get better. I know it's impossible to see it now, but they truly do. Just don't fight the lows and the reality and trust there will be better days in your future.
My brother was a Ranger too. He's been a blessing and a support to me like he didn't know how to be before (he's retired now). Don't underestimate the ways your training has shaped you. Perspective and tenacity are critical skills in a situation like this. You've done way more than haul a heavya$$ rucksack with Tobasco in your eyes. Hugs, hugs, hugs to you.
Hey TLEE... one word about a happy place...
I've been looking for one this whole time. Tried imagining running on the beach... moving to someplace warm with my boy... having money and free time... enjoying a night out with a new someone.
You know what has really worked for me recently...
After a post by Wonka on my thread of an email from MWD about imagining miracles... I imagine a good MC session with my wife. What We would say... how we would heal. I imagine her low key move home... the awkwardness of being around her again... my son face seeing her at our first dinner together... how fragile it would be... piecing. All that would be a miracle. It makes me smile but not too much.
Focus on what you want, right? Tenacity, right?
Happy place.
My happy place is not about a person.
At the beginning of my current thread I told about a blog I read that reminded me, "Fear is a lighthouse guiding you to where you need to be. Head for the lighthouse."
Maybe you're less of a coward than I am, but deciding that I have the courage to intentionally head in the direction of my fear has been immensely happy for me. It's a relief to think I can take up the space a whole entire grown up fills without being perfect at everything I attempt and that that's a good thing.
Whatever makes you happy, fellas, so long as you believe that happiness is something you're entitled to and that you can foster it without relying on the cooperation of anyone else.
Bell- thank you so much for your insight and taking the time to read through my thread. I have been following your sitch as well, and really admire the patience and commitment you have shown...I cant even imagine going through this for a year and a half, but its people like you that have shown that anything is possible, and with the right attitude and a little help from God, maybe a lot of help ha, we can get to where we want to be.
I have been going through this for a year and a half. I fought it like he!! The first ten months. It was inconceivable to me -- truly unimaginable -- that my H could betray me like that.
You're absolutely right. It is so difficult to even fathom that this is my W...my loving, beautiful W. Sometimes I see glimpses of the W I used to know and then it goes away. When I think of these moments, I try and put myself in her shoes when she was angry and unhappy while I was gone. That she probably looked at me the same way, "where was the H I married?" I am not excusing her actions, but I try and acknowledge that I obviously played a role in the state my M is in. A year and a half...I can only pray that if this sitch does last that long- I truly hope it doesnt- that I have the same patience as you do.
As soon as I started acknowledging that this is my reality, things started getting a lot easier. I stopped speaking to my H about anything besides kids & finances the 3rd of October and things got enormously better much more quickly. Contact with him is kind of deadly to me.
I can see him more objectively these days and the sting is different. The occasional moderately positive interaction doesn't make me impatient anymore. I don't know how detached I am, but I'm a lot more at peace.
I have yet to truly accept this is what it is right now. I still fight to control it, and I struggle with the fact that I have no power in this matter. Ive written this before, but a lot of vets and people on this forum seem to continue to urge minimal contact but my DB Coach seems to actually want to me sustain the amount of contact we have, and to even initiate with her as much as she does me. To keep talking to her about friendly things and just shoot the (censored) with her. I am really confused on the difference in opinion...your thoughts?
You've done way more than haul a heavya$$ rucksack with Tobasco in your eyes.
This last line made me laugh, I really needed that so thank you. Tobasco in the eyes...haha, I will never forget that feeling. Im sure your brother has told you countless stories that you probably roll over laughing from. Tell him hello for me, and RLTW!
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HP/Bell,
I think you both have very interesting versions of a happy place. HP, I think it is wonderful that you use your end goal as your happy place. Envisioning success is definitely the way to go. I too have tried this technique and it always makes me smile, but its bittersweet for me, because I don't know if that will actually happen. Maybe this is a defeatist way of thinking, but this idea is both a blessing and a curse when I think about it. Still on the fence sometimes if it works for me or not.
Bell, I am going to have to ponder your idea. I think it is great that you don't rely on any one person to make you happy, that you determine your own happiness, which ultimately is what matters and the only thing we can control. I'll get back to you on this one. It's definitely something worth thinking about and I cant wrap my head around it yet.
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W seems like she wants things "back to normal" before we had this conversation today. Sent her a couple pictures of the dogs, and she replied back and I didn't say anything to her because I really had nothing to say..and she sends another text with a "?" as if she was expecting something back or wondering why i didn't say anything to her in a couple hours. Funny how when I don't reply to her and she's wondering where I'm at that she gets anxious. Ive been complaining about your lack of urgency when responding to texts for the past 3 months there W.
TL,
You've received some great advice from Maybell. It really does get better with acceptance and time. I think most of us can agree that accepting that your M is dead and the spouse you once knew is gone, is exceptionally challenging. You are still watching all of your W's words, actions, and movements. As soon as you don't analyze each of those, you will feel so much better and confident that you can build a new life for yourself. Maybe it's with your W and maybe not. No one knows that answer.
Happiness? I've really started to loathe that word as people toss is around like a beanbag. However, I've always been a rather *happy* person. This last year has been a struggle and I'm sure I have more struggles ahead. I agree with Maybell that happiness shouldn't be a *person* but rather with you. I realized quite a while ago that I'm going around one time on this planet (at least in his format ).
Definitely feel those feelings and acknowledge your fears. That's pretty frightening in itself. For your own sanity, please know that regardless of the outcome of your R, you can have a great life. Sometimes things look a little different than what we think they are supposed to and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. You are still so young.
Hang in there:-)
GB (I'm thinking of calling you Peaches- I love GA peaches), thanks for your time and your insight. Your words really resonated with me, especially this first part.
You are still watching all of your W's words, actions, and movements. As soon as you don't analyze each of those, you will feel so much better and confident that you can build a new life for yourself.
You are right. 100% right. I watch her words, actions, and movements. Sometimes they are positive, sometimes they are negative. My emotions ride this roller coaster everyday. This is where detaching is supposed to come in- I am obviously failing at this right now. I have not yet learned to not wait on her every move, looking for good or bad signs. I need to take the good at face value but not put all my hopes into it and have no expectations. And I need to take the bad and brush it off and do what I can to change if I contributed to it. If its just her mood, then I should just let it roll right off. Thank you for this GB.
Happiness? I've really started to loathe that word as people toss is around like a beanbag. However, I've always been a rather *happy* person. This last year has been a struggle and I'm sure I have more struggles ahead. I agree with Maybell that happiness shouldn't be a *person* but rather with you.
Happiness, as I wrote to Bell, Im still tossing this one around in my head. My happiness and my happy place was doing all these wonderful things with my W. Now that that is taken away from me, I need to find what truly makes ME happy on my own. Still working this one. More to follow on this
-----Break Break Break-----
Just got off with my DB Coach again tonight, what great timing following yesterdays slip up. I love talking to these ladies, so helpful and encouraging.
Some notes I took down from what she told me.
BoundariesWRT my boundary I set today regarding $, I need to truly enforce that when the time comes. Lovingly and kindly enforce that boundary of finances. I will help you W and I am here for YOU but i don't want to be in the position to help you AND OM. I will not pay for his bills. I need to convey to her that I will help her out, and do what I can to help HER but draw the line to where it is not going to OM
Other Notes- IOT connect emotionally, we have to build trust, and create emotional safety through validation and empathy. STAY with her feelings.
- Continue this validation statement I have been saying:
I have no doubt about your talents and intelligence W. I know you will be successful. I have absolute faith in you. You know that. (I actually truly mean this but never conveyed it to her. This will keep being a 180 from her not feeling as an equal to me)
- For my sitch: Although it is advocated here by many to be selective in responses to W, because her complaint was that I was never emotionally and mentally there, that would be more of the same. Our communication has increased, so I need to continue doing what I am doing. Respond to her when she reaches out to me. Keep talking to her. It is a GOOD THING when she keeps wanting all this contact with me.
Validating Her Feelings if the opportunity arises - It makes me feel sad when you say there is no future. It hurts me to know I have hurt you, and I have not been there to support you and encourage you. Instead Ive been critical and rejecting. It just hurts me to have hurt you like that and I am sorry.
I encourage you guys to do this exercise and develop your own course of action. It is really enlightening, at least for me.
How would she describe youTim is very determined and knows exactly what he wants. He always has a plan. But he can get very controlling sometimes to get what it is he wants. When he is happy, he is very thoughtful and kind and does all the little things I like. When he is unhappy, he becomes extremely self-centered and focused only on himself.
*Course of Action: No matter what my mood is, I need to convey and continue to be consistent in my actions and how I treat W. To continue to make her feel special.
This is probably why my Christmas gift went over so well. It made her feel special and was just a small token of what she meant to me even though we are going through these difficult times. I showed I thought of her no matter how sad I was. This was a 180 that I just realized I did unintentionally. Showing her I care about her, no matter my own feelings.
What frustrates her about youHe doesn't treat me like he used to. He used to do the most thoughtful, sweetest things in the world for me before we got married and he came home from Afghanistan. All I looked forward to was re-living the times we had before he left for his deployment, and there was a huge build up that came crashing down because when he came home, it was no longer about me and the marriage, but about him.
What she thinks you think of herI think he thinks I am a Trophy Wife sometimes. He likes to show me off to his friends but sometimes doesn't let me be who I am and have to be someone I am not. I think he does love me very much but my personality that he used to love so much, seemed to have bothered him this past year. I think he doesnt think of me as an equal because I dont work and I dont go to school so I dont bring anything to the marriage. This is something that I struggled with my whole life, and when he argues with me and he becomes possessive of everything in the house, it makes me feel even less of an equal
What is the most painful thing to her about what you doThe most painful thing is that he stopped treating me like he used to. He started taking me for granted because we are married and he “got me.” He no longer treats me like he could lose me. (I know better now…).
*Course of Action: Continue to EMPATHIZE with her and VALIDATE her. Make her feel like she is admirable, and loved. To let her know she has many talents and will be successful. That I have FAITH in her.
---Bottom line...DB continues to see a lot of hope and promise in my sitch. Regardless of my little screw up yesterday, W seems to be anxious to get back to talking normally again. DB Coach saying that there is just a lot of hurt in W because her expectations were so high, especially when I returned from deployment, and I let all of them down and became a different person. EA with OM...I need to disregard as much as possible. Control ME and keep doing what I am doing. It was working. PATIENCE....is continuing to reach new levels by the second.
Thanks for reading everyone...I am really thankful for you guys. Don't know how I would get through this without you all.
Hey bud,
One of the things I said to my XW that I could tell made her think, "who is this guy" was when I screwed up something small. I immediately apologized and told her that I was a work in progress. I'm never gonna be perfect but I'm never gonna stop trying. Also, try to be genuine in your affirmations. Never say the same thing twice. Or even bring up considerate things she did for you in the past that you never really acknowledged. Like, hey W, remember xyz that you did? That was really awesome and it really made me feel special. I don't think I ever expressed how much so. Thank you.
Just some ideas. Don't give up!