Link to previous thread:
Inside my chrysalis 6 So the healing has begin. I feel strong and solid thanks to so many of you.
Bring on the grace and happiness... I'm ready.
Hi SS! Wishing you a strong peaceful day!
Ok, so this is actually thread 8, not 7 so pardon the confusion. Hee hee.
Thank you rpp, I'm looking forward to a good day!
I saw IC yesterday and she made some incredible observations.
Mostly she noticed that I "seemed different" and pinpointed it to that I was dressing like I had a life and seemed "lighter". I explained how, with all of your help, I'd been doing much better, feeling better about myself and really working on those things that bring value to ME.
At the end of the session she observed that I'd started off talking about myself, my strength, my work, etc. then moved on to talk about US as a couple, how we'd interacted at D's karate tournament, etc., and then ventured into talking about HIM and how he's so difficult to live with.
Fascinating how I did all that in 50 minutes. I KNOW I have more to work on but I seem to want to build a consensus with how un-awesome my H was during our marriage because I think that justifies my terrible behavior.
Interesting huh?
Yes, he is REALLY difficult to live with but I'm no peach.
Plus, if I get a well educated and very experienced therapist to say he's NUTSO for leaving me then that should solve everything right?
Um. no.
Gotta work on my trying to make myself have value by devaluing him. Easy trap to fall into but it isn't the hard work.
Back to the drawing board.
On another note, I'm really struggling with my BFF having completely abandoned me (or at least that's how I feel) in the middle of some really hard stuff and this morning I get a phone call from her husband saying she really needs my comfort and support right now because she had to take her baby to daycare this morning for the first time and isn't handling that very well.
Ugh! I hate that she's going through so much and struggling with this. It's not easy to be a new mom and have to drop your new baby off with someone else while you try to keep your mind on work and whatnot. It's hard and heartache inducing BIG TIME!
But my instinct is to punish and not be there for her because I've had to struggle so much alone.
Could I be more like an 8 year old on the playground?!
I hate this about myself. The score keeping in every situation.
I did call my BFF and talk to her while she sobbed. I told her I'd check in on her later in the day, too.
I just wish my effort were matched when it came to relationships... and when it's not, I punish and pull back and build up resentment.
See a pattern here?
Lots to look inward about right now. LOTS!!!
Well, she gave you some powerful info. Hard to hear, but, important.
You know, S, he had some stuff that he did, you had stuff that you did. Most of them played off each other. You did the best you knew how at the time...so did he.
Whatever happened, did. Cant undo it. It is important to forgive yourself for your part. Your intent wasnt to cause damage to the marriage.
I was really depressed towards the end of my marriage. How I allowed him to make me feel played a part in it. It played a part in his unhappiness.
Do I think that gave him the right to do what he did? No. But that's just my opinion. He obviously had a different one, which is his right. Mine isnt more important than his.
I get what you are saying about your friend. People are just people. Im sure she isnt consciously ignoring your issues. There could be many reasons why she isnt there for you.
If you feel that strongly about it, maybe you can talk to her. It sounds like she is dealing with some stuff, too.
While a friendship should be reciprical, it shouldnt have score keeping as a factor.
You should be the kind of friend you want to be regardless of whether there is any payback. The truth is people do what they do and you cant control it. Their choice to make. Your choice in whether you want to remain in that friendship.
You are doing some great digging...:)
Once again, uR, you make me think but you help me focus so I'm not a run away train of over analysis and over thinking.
Thank you!
I was talking to my BFF today (I sucked it up. I love her more than I could ever be upset with her. It's nice to be needed and able to give her support. I'm also learning that I need to lean more on myself and not expect everyone else to give me their wisdom nuggets so I can figure myself out) and after talking and empathizing with her situation, she asked how it was doing and much to my surprise I exploded verbally with so much negativity and bitterness.
I was SHOCKED.
What?
I thought I was really making progress and coming to acceptance about all this but my goodness...
I know I'm super comfortable with my BFF but I was aghast and my spewing at the simple question "how's it going".
20 minutes later I stopped and apologized for being so negative because I felt like it wasn't a true reflection of my feelings.
Then she said, "yes it is, honey. It absolutely is."
And she's right.
WHA??
More digging to do. I'm not being hard on myself because I realize this stuff takes major time so I'm being gentle with myself and loving towards the process. But holy moly.
On a separate note (I always have separate notes, huh?), yoga tonight was UBER interesting.
My teacher talked about the difference between feelings and emotions. She said that emotions are sticky and take our feelings and attach to us like barnacles on a ship. After some time, you begin to feel heavy and weighed down from all these sticky emotions. Instead, learning through yoga and meditation how to allow the feelings to ash through you, observe and pay homage but don't let it turn into an emotion and stick to you so you have to carry it around with you until you process that particular barnacle.
Amazing, right??
Anyway... I need to scrape off some of (all of?) these barnacles. They're weighing me down, man.
Thanks for sharing SS. What a profound moment. I think a lot of people do that. I sure do. I decide how I want to feel about a situation, my 'platform' if you will, then deny/surpress feelings that don't fit in. Problem is that it's not as easy as just deciding to be detached because 'why let WAS continue to control out emotional well being?'...the true feelings remain underneath.
I'm still new to the a knowledging feelings game as I've used that model for too long. It's tough to find a balance between denying them and being at their mercy. Good for you for meditating. It may not directly change how you feel about certain things, but it can reduce their power over you I think. And maybe if you can have moments of clarity from beyond the cloud of those feelings you can see things from different perspectives through which your true feelings change naturally.
There's a famous story about a passenger on a bus. Another passenger got on with three kids. The kids were running around and creating quite a disturbance but the father did nothing. Some of the other passengers started glaring at the dad, and looking at Each other in disbelief that he didn't seem to care. Finally the narrator of the story decided to confront the dad and let him know his kids were actin up. He was a little righteous and impatient when he confronted the dad. The dad said 'I'm really sorry. I didn't realize the boys were being so disruptive. Today's been a hard day. We just left from their mothers funeral and I guess none of us really know how to deal with it...'
I still well up reading that. And the point is that the author clearly felt quite a bit differently than he did before that exchange.
Why? What changed? Just his perspective. He suddenly saw beyond his own point of view and began to truly empathize with the pain of another. Suddenly it didn't seem so inappropriate.
That's a good reminder for me right now. It's easy to get stuck in my own view and my own pain. Even easier to 'regain control' and use that pain in a defiant attitude telling ourselves we are better off without our WAS, how dare they treat us the way they are, etc. Maybe there is some truth to that. But I think that truth can only be the right truth if it comes AFTER truly coming to terms wih your own feelings, understanding and having compassion for WAS, and only then making the tough decision that while you still love them and regret what is necessary, a new R isn't healthy. As opposed to making that decision from a place of pain.
Again, very good topic for me tonight, thanks for sharing.
I'm glad it resonated with you tonight, Zeus.
Your statement that it's tough to find a balance between denying feelings and being at their mercy slapped me right across the face. You're so right.
Because if that I'm becoming more aware of how far in advance I plan how I'll feel about something. Isn't that silly? Because I'm so reactive and I know it, I try to cut back on my reactivity not by addressing what inside me makes me that way but by planning my feelings around every single scenario way far into the future.
I'm wagging the dog to avoid having to look her in the face (I'm the dog in this scenario).
I was meditating to a guided meditation and the guide said, "I want you to simply notice the discomfort you may be feeling rather than try to change it when we scan the body for discomfort in a few moments" and I immediately started to plan for how I'd handle being uncomfortable in a few minutes, how I'd create a miracle by simply noticing it to relax the tension...
I'm even trying to control my meditation. I grasp on to everything. What in the world would happen if I just LET IT BE?? My habits are so ingrained to DO and FIX that I have no idea how to simply BE.
If it weren't so glaring it'd be hilarious. Geez. Today was a big day for awarenesses. I'm grateful though. I'm not stuck and I'm not on the floor crying next to my vacuum.
Onward!
Ss, I think identifying this tendancy of yours was the most critical part. You obviously still have work to do, but keep it up and it will become more and more natural for you. And I'm glad that vacuum was alone on the floor yesterday!
So you've identified that you try to identify and fix things that should be let be. Better get that fixed. So do you get that fixed or let it be?
Woke up in the middle of the night. Sense of humor may not be up yet. Ill try again tomorrow.
I used to think if I had a negative thought, I was that negative thing. If I had had the thought when BFF called, "Oh so you abandon me and now I'm supposed to comfort you!" Bam, I would have been right in Toxic Thought World. My IC has helped me see that we all have those initial negative responses to some things, it's how we handle that thought that makes a difference and so, as in meditation, "hmmm, there's a thought, let it go." It only has importance if we let it. We are not the thought.
About your anger, I'm sure you do still have anger at your H but do you think you might have been letting a little anger out at your BFF. You didn't feel OK being angry at her so you jumped on the other person who abandoned you.
Just a thought.
You're a trooper.
S, I know because of my childhood, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If my mom was in a goofy, happy drunk mood, that meant we had 15-20 minutes of time before it could change dramatically. If she was angry, we had less time. The next day she'd act as if nothing bad or violent had occurred the night before so I learned not to trust my perceptions...and instead to trust my fears.
One of the ways that manifested itself in me was that I needed to be very organized and liked to know what was going to happen next.
I know now why I did that and while I remain organized in a healthy way, I know longer need to know what's next. I am more than ok with just living my life and letting it unfold the way it does.
My guess is that you have a need to anticipate how you are going to feel in order to be able to handle it.
We do what we know until we know something better. It's our comfort zone. We know how to act that way.
The thing about anger is that it should be used to propel you forward. After that, holding onto it just weighs you down.
It stops you from continuing to move forward because you get stuck there.
To me, if a feeling isnt serving me well, I find a way to let it wash over me because it isnt going to help me not to.
As long as we hold onto those feelings, we dont have to deal with any others.
I see such growth in you, S. It is wonderful to see.
Fantastic perspective, uR. Pasted into my journal.
S, I know because of my childhood, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If my mom was in a goofy, happy drunk mood, that meant we had 15-20 minutes of time before it could change dramatically. If she was angry, we had less time. The next day she'd act as if nothing bad or violent had occurred the night before so I learned not to trust my perceptions...and instead to trust my fears.
One of the ways that manifested itself in me was that I needed to be very organized and liked to know what was going to happen next.
I know now why I did that and while I remain organized in a healthy way, I know longer need to know what's next. I am more than ok with just living my life and letting it unfold the way it does.
My guess is that you have a need to anticipate how you are going to feel in order to be able to handle it.
We do what we know until we know something better. It's our comfort zone. We know how to act that way.
The thing about anger is that it should be used to propel you forward. After that, holding onto it just weighs you down.
It stops you from continuing to move forward because you get stuck there.
To me, if a feeling isnt serving me well, I find a way to let it wash over me because it isnt going to help me not to.
As long as we hold onto those feelings, we dont have to deal with any others.
I see such growth in you, S. It is wonderful to see.
PRECISELY!!
I am hyper sensitive to the moods of others, make their anxieties mine (learned from my turn-on-a-dime-mother) and because if the hell of all of that, I definitely wait for the other shoe to drop. I'm afraid to also say that often when I'm not prepared for it, I'm caught unprepared and I fumble so it makes sense to me to uber plan.
Having been married to the most unorganized and scatter-brained man on the planet, I've loosened my ties on things and I'm reminded by our separation that I find comfort in order, not just because it helps me keep control, yes, but also because I HATED not knowing what would happen next ever.
There's a balance between having to be structured all the time and living by the seat of your pants all the time and I'm finding that. Slowly.
I am really unpracticed at allowing feelings to wash over me and just be. I want to get better at it but I keep reacting so fast that I don't catch myself until way after. I phenomenon in itself. The sheer speed of my reactivity. It's amazing. I'm surprised there's no sonic boom that accompanies it.
Jeez uR. "Waiting for the other shoe to drop" are precisely the words I've used all these years after living with so much fear of what was going to happen next with my mother.
When is that woman going to get out of my head?!
About your anger, I'm sure you do still have anger at your H but do you think you might have been letting a little anger out at your BFF. You didn't feel OK being angry at her so you jumped on the other person who abandoned you.
Interesting perspective, labug. I need to think about this further. Major projecting? Yes, it's possible. Almost like I was venting about being abandoned by my BFF directly to my BFF but through the guise of bitterness about my H. Sneaky sneaky.
If that's what I did, isn't that just a little sick? Am I THAT dysfunctional? Oy vey.
How much do I typically do that, I wonder.
Thanks, Card.
S, I had my mother's voice and my xh's voice in my head for a long time. A lifetime really. I kept hearing and feeling the way I allowed them to make me feel. Unworthy, incapable, not enough.
I figured if two of the most important people in my life thought that, well, then, it must be true. Until I realized why they did that. It was how they felt about themselves for many reasons. They were just projecting that onto me.
I realized they were wrong. I was enough. I was worthy and capable. I knew that because I became the person I was meant to be. Dont get me wrong, though, I was a good person before. But it wasnt until I walked this journey that I believed it.
The stronger you get, the more you embrace the good things about you, the smaller her voice will get. And the truth is, that you have the power to silence it whenever you want, right?
If that's what I did, isn't that just a little sick? Am I THAT dysfunctional? Oy vey.
Careful there, S. ^^^. You didn’t do it knowingly if that's what you did. You reacted out of hurt feelings. You are feeling betrayed by your h and your BFF. Maybe that crossed over, maybe it didnt. It's good to look at it, but, dont go feeling like there is something wrong with you.
The thing about allowing feelings to grab hold of you is that they are fleeting. They also dont hold any power unless you give that to them.
It takes practice to not react immediately. It really does. It is a mindset of sorts. Feelings are just part of us, and they’re not good or bad. They’re information and energy. What we do with that information and energy could be good or bad.Each feeling has a message – a message from one part of you to another part of you.
While there are many ways of responding to each situation, most of us tend to use one reaction over and over. We know it’s not the best solution, but it seems to happen automatically.But behavior is not automatic, it’s something we’ve learned by practicing.
Instead of being proactive and making choices for our happiness, we react to things that happen in our lives, and fight or flee kicks in to minimize our pain.
It’s not always easy to understand a feeling when it happens, especially if you think you shouldn’t feel it, but forget about should. Instead, try to pinpoint exactly what you feel—scared, frustrated, worried, ashamed, agitated, angry—and then pinpoint what might be the cause…then reserve all judgment.
Once you know what you feel, you can then challenge both the cause and the effect.You can ask yourself whether or not you’re overreacting to the event or worrying to find a sense of control. And then you can accept that there is an alternative—you can choose to interpret the situation a different way, soothe yourself, and then feel something different. No one else causes our feelings. Only we can choose and change them.
Pain is part of life, and we can’t avoid it by resisting it. We can only minimize it by accepting it and dealing with it well.
That means feeling the pain and knowing it will pass. No feeling lasts forever. It means sitting in the discomfort and waiting before acting. There will come a time when you feel healed and empowered.
Our power comes from realizing we don’t need to act on pain; and if we need to diffuse it, we can channel it into something healthy and productive, like writing, painting, or doing something physical.
Realize the feeling, pinpoint the exact cause (reserving judgement) then evaluate whether I'm trying to gain control or overreacting. Then find the alternative : breathe, look within, choose to feel differently.
This is my plan (is it weird that in an attempt to not have a plan with how I'll feel, I've now compiled a plan on how to handle them differently?). I like it. I'm going to put in my phone so I always have it with me.
I love what you said about channeling the pain into something productive. That's a long term goal for me. First I need to slow down my reactivity from being the speed of sound to perhaps just the speed of a cheetah. Baby steps.
uR, your words just ring directly to my heart and the right part if my brain. Thank you for your time and effort. It is very much needed and greatly appreciated.
I feel like you're putting all these lessons I know I need to learn into byte sized pieces because if I'm overwhelmed I'll procrastinate and clearly that's not helpful. You keep the wheels turning and I'm really enjoying the process.
Your reminder to me above to be careful and more gentle with myself came at just the right time. Not hear from you that this process shouldn't bring shame or regret so much as a learning and choosing who I want to be. The freedom of that is so beautiful.
I'm grateful for you in so many, many ways.
Ugh. H just left after dropping D off after going out to his moms birthday dinner.
Here was our brief conversation about Thanksgiving:
H: so what do you think about having family-X over for thanksgiving?
Me: No.
H: ok, I guess thats an answer.
Me: I though we could have our dinner and then after start making Christmas cookies, if you're up for that.
H: sounds good... What can I do? Have you reserved a turkey yet?
Me: not yet. If you want to do that, that'd be great. We don't need a big one.
H: yeah. No problem
Me: great! Thank you.
H: you know I'm really glad we can do this and have Thanksgiving together and I think it'll be good for D over the years.
Me: (thinking, "over the years??!") oh, I think this is temporary.
H: what do you mean?
Me: I don't know that I intend to have thanksgiving just the three of us forever.
H: oh. Ok.
I don't regret saying it, I regret how I said it and let's be honest, I was reactive. Mi wanted to set him straight.
He doesn't get the happy family experience without the responsibility and the commitment. At least not with me.
And his audacity to think I'll cook him Thanksgiving dinner every year. Ugh, I could have tossed my like warm tea at him.
Am I wrong here?
I mean, I'm supposed to wait to decorate the Christmas tree so that he can be part of it. Am I supposed to do that once we're divorced? I think he thinks that's our "arrangement". Is he living in denial or am I being a b!tch?
Please help me look at this from a realistic point of view.
I do not want to be his bestie. I want to make that clear. He seems to be under the strange illusion that he can walk away but have all the perks of marriage (except sex of course, at least with me). The only thing different about our life now than pre-bd is that he sleeps somewhere else and is more accountable to D.
Part of me wants him to be uncomfortable, to not like being away from this family as a whole. Then another part of me says it's not my job to teach him lessons. Then I think that I'm done bending over backwards for him and doing what he wants even though it makes me uncomfortable or not at all what I want.
The holidays suck already.
Hahaha. Hope you read my last posts, just bumped. I think I've seen this in all of us LBS's.
DB coach or not, all I can say at this point is that I'm going to do what jives with my core values and personal needs. I'm not going to worry about how STBX perceives that. I can't control her back, I can't control her to miss me or like me, and even if I could do a song and dance that would win her back I couldn't keep it up my whole life. So I will take care of myself and be respectful but discreet.
Now, I'm still trying to absorb the words of my DB coach when I said something similar about how "we won't live like this once were D and remarried down the road". She dismissed it and said "you're not there yet, do you want to be?" Point is some rules are suspended and it seems like limbo does have its own laws of physics. I am challenging myself because I know if I'm doing things out of hurt, fear, need to control, etc, that aren't helping me, then I need to step up my game.
So no answers, just sharing the questions...
There are people who do continue to have shared family celebrations over the years
You never know what might happen.
Yes, labug, I realize that. That's great.
It's not what I want.
I couldn't fathom that either.
It's what my in-laws do! I've made it pretty clear I won't play it that way. Although we are having Thanksgiving together.
I don't regret saying it, I regret how I said it and let's be honest, I was reactive. I wanted to set him straight.
Ok, so, in your quest with trying to be less reactive, what would you have done differently?
And his audacity to think I'll cook him Thanksgiving dinner every year. Ugh, I could have tossed my like warm tea at him.
Did he say that you would cook Thanksgivine every year? Just curious.
I mean, I'm supposed to wait to decorate the Christmas tree so that he can be part of it. Am I supposed to do that once we're divorced? I think he thinks that's our "arrangement". Is he living in denial or am I being a b!tch?
You dont have to wait to decorate. You dont have to spend Thanksgiving with him. But you should make these decisions from a place of strength and take your daughter into consideration. I am not at all saying that you have to do things the way he wants. Not at all. I am saying that you reacted out of anger and that doesnt serve you well because that isnt who you want to be any longer.
I do not want to be his bestie. I want to make that clear. He seems to be under the strange illusion that he can walk away but have all the perks of marriage (except sex of course, at least with me). The only thing different about our life now than pre-bd is that he sleeps somewhere else and is more accountable to D.
So, you are feeling taken advantage of. What can you do to stop feeling that way? You have power here, S. You get to choose how you want to live your life.
Part of me wants him to be uncomfortable, to not like being away from this family as a whole. Then another part of me says it's not my job to teach him lessons. Then I think that I'm done bending over backwards for him and doing what he wants even though it makes me uncomfortable or not at all what I want.
yea, none of those things are good for you. I think you need to figure out what you want for you and make decisions from there. A friend of mine wrote this about boundaries. Maybe they will help.
Think about , very specifically, what you want boundaries on.
List them out and read them (aloud) to yourself. Sometimes reading them aloud will give you a new perspective on them. If they sound funny , then find out why they do, because they might not be a boundary that you need to relay....
Make sure, 100%, that your boundaries are NOT for you to "punish" in any way...
Watch how you deliver them. Make sure that you word them without coming across as controlling.
Closely examine the words "you", and "I" . Anytime one uses those words, there is a strong chance of using guilt, or blame.
"Always" and "Never" are words that can make us hypocrites....try to stay away from them as well.
Make sure that YOU feel good about saying them, and they are only to protect your emotional being, or physical in some cases.
Make sure that you are willing to die on that hill. Meaning is it worth it to even state them.
Do NOT overstate them. Say what you want ONCE, and rest on that. Don't explain yourself, you have your reasons, just like they have theirs.
Then you need to back away, and live with those boundaries, and let them live with them. They will cause them to spin a little, but that isn't your problem now.
Use tact, not anger. Tact was described to me as telling someone to go to hell, and they look forward to the trip.
Be the person that you want to be, regardless of what happens. You are setting a boundary, not to induce a reaction, but regardless the reaction.
Ss, a while back you said "when is that woman going to get out of my head?!"
I have a great friend who told me a long time ago that we all have a committee of other people's voices in our heads, and if we can't get rid of them then we should at least they give us positive messages. If you have someone on your committee who is hurting you, you have to fire them. Then you need to either replace them with someone supportive or leave the position empty so your own voice sounds louder.
Every time you hear your mom contributing to your actions, think "YOU'RE FIRED," very firmly but calmly, and choose a different voice to listen to.
Ss06, while I can completely understand your position, all your future holidays? Why decide on them now? You never know what will happen down the track, or how you'll feel about any of this.
My mother's parents have been divorced for almost 40 years, and for most of my 31+ years we've all had Christmas together, and it works. You just never know.
I totally agree with you about wanting your spouse to feel uncomfortable. I don't feel like my H should be able to have the whole family experience. Plus it's going to be very awkward. But I realize including him will provide an opportunity for me to show him any positive changes I have made. So I go back and forth on this issue. One day I am sure I want him here for Thanksgiving and Christmas and the next day I totally do not want him to join us.
Yes, labug, I realize that. That's great.
It's not what I want.
Right now it isn't. Who knows in the future? And I don't know that it's great, it just works for some families because it works for the kids. My posting was more about opening yourself up, not deciding about the future today.
I would never have thought of doing that until I saw it working successfully for some families I know.
I am so full of anger and resentment that I can't seem to move on from it... So I need to face it. All of it in it's disgustingly ugly glory.
I'm on the verge of hating H and while that's somewhat alarming I'm more concerned about my feelings of apathy toward him.
I am not doing well with calming myself and staying centered. D has been a huge handful lately and I'm not handling it well. I just have no patience for having to repeat myself 1,000 times. I can tell she's a bit off kilter and that's not helping me stay grounded. I'm a mess but i look good on the outside.
Ok, that's not really true. A number of people in the last week have asked me if I'm ok. That's not something people have asked me before. I wonder if I have resting pissed off face lately. I have these moments of severe darkness where I think about how all of this is just so typical of H and apparently it's showing on my face. I never could bluff my way out of anything once someone looked in my eyes, I'm a terrible poker player.
To walk away with no plan, to be stubborn for the sake of stubbornness, to have no direction, or personal goal, to not do the work, the real hard work. I'm not mind reading here. I can see that he's making visualization boards of the life he wants, which is great but he's not asking himself what HE did to contribute to the demise of our relationship and that's just so typical.
And I'm the bitter seperatee.
Not attractive but it's reality right now. I'm bitter. There's no question.
I've been meditating every day and I feel good for about 30 minutes after but I can't maintain the feeling of mindfulness for long and the negative thoughts and bitterness creep back into my head and heart.
I think I need some serious time away. I feel like the water level is getting higher and higher everyday and I'm going to slowly drown. How do I stay empowered and strong?
Tonight while D and I were getting ready for our mother/daughter photoshoot (my friend takes our photos and I take hers with her daughter, even exchange. We've done it once before), H came over. He had no idea we were doing this. He asks why D is all dressed up and her hair blow dry, etc. she tells him.
A few minutes later I come down stairs in a skirt, heels, silk top with my hair all bouncy and shiny, makeup applied perfectly, etc and he asks if I'm in the photos, too (duh). I reply, yes.
He asks if these photos are Christmas card photos and his face looked shocked and braced for bad news, like he was about to be hurt and angry.
I said, "the photographer is taking a couple shots of just D and that'll be a holiday photo but the rest are a mother/daughter session".
He seemed relieved that I was implying I wasn't sending out "family holiday cards" with just D and I.
But in reality, if we were divorced, that's exactly what I'd do. If he wants a divorce why can't he face the reality of a divorced life? Separate holidays, separate holiday cards, separate, separate, separate!!!!
I'm angry and bitter about that, too.
I'm the bitter divorcee I always joked about (except I'm not a barfly with Botox like the ones I see around here).
I think I need sometime to hate myself in this stage before moving on.
I'm so sorry you're having a rough time. I want to say something to help you move through it, but I've got nothing. I think you're right, you're going to have to live through this. Just don't linger in this place. Look at it hard, and try to find the path out.
If you're going to live like the separation is permanent then at some point you have to make up your mind to inch towards the person you want to be permanently. You can do that over time, though.
What have you been able to do to get space from your h? That has been key for me finding my equilibrium.
Hugs, Ss.
The space I have right now is no contact outside of D talk, I don't initiate seeing him AT ALL.
The talk is short and business like with some friend sprinkled in.
That's it.
I need some time away, I think to get out if this space of anger and resentment.
My bestie can't get her 4 month old to take a bottle and I know it's tough on parents to do that. I want to offer to help by going up there and spending 48 hours with the baby and making this bottle thing happen so mom doesn't gave to worry about a hungry baby at daycare. I'm not sure I could fit it in the schedule but I'm trying. It's just the complete mental change I really, really need and I'd be helping someone, too.
Hey sweetie. So, you're angry cuz this all succks, right? I mean really, you didnt sign up for this.
You have to go through all the stages of grief. Sometimes you go through and back around again. Doesnt happen in a straight line. You just dont want to stay stuck in any one stage.
Here's the thing about the anger part. It can be used to propel you forward and that's a good thing. The bad part about it is the bitter part. Thats not good for anyone.
So, you are angry that he gets to decide what he wants regardless of how it affects anyone else. The thing is that you cant control anyone else but you. You cant expect that he should have a plan. You cant control if he does the work.
The only one you can control is you. When I was going through this, it was important to me what I saw when I looked back on this part of my life. Who did I want to see?
I realized that it wasnt what I wanted, but, I would be damnnned if I was going to allow him to take anymore than he had already taken. That makes me a victim and I aint one.
I used my anger to make sure that he wasnt getting anymore of me. Not one part. By that I mean, I wasnt going to allow what he was doing to change who I wanted to be. I wasnt going to allow his decisions to impact mine. I wasnt going to let what he said or did affect what I did. Nope. Wasnt gonna happen.
So I decided that he can make his decisions, and I sure as heck was going to make mine. And mine were that I was going to become the person I was meant to be. I was going to use this time to become strong. I was going to take care of my son and teach him how to handle life's tough stuff.
And nothing that my h was going to do, was going to throw me off MY path. Ever. In any way.
Leave him to his ridiculousness. You do what you need to do for you.
And you should start by not allowing him to just show up whenever he feels like it. Not to punish. But because you deserve to be respected.
Get back on your path, SS. Dont give him any more power. Take it back.
You can do this. I know it.
Man, I needed you to show up, uR. Thank you.
I do let the anger and resentment color my outlook and I can work on that while also recognizing that this is a process, one that follows no script.
I was journaling last night and allowed myself to just vent and spew, something I normally don't allow myself to do because it keeps me stuck but I tried it to see if it really was something I just needed.
It was.
I vented a ton and by the end, I'd wrapped around and found my PMA again. I need to listen to myself when I'm itching to vent and do it via journaling. If i do it with a friend they empathize and encourage which keeps me in my rut, when I work through it on paper I come out ok on the other end. Most of the time.
Like you, uR, and probably many others, I don't want to look back on this time and dislike the person I was. I feel like though, given my circumstances, it makes sense for me to be a little "off".
I'll admit, I have not found my footing in this long-term mountain climb and I keep trying different ones on to see what fits me. Nothing is quite right. Hence my general avoidance of H. When we do hang out, it's ok but I still have a basic instinct to internally roll my eyes so heavily that they might not right themselves again.
More distance is my only answer I think, so I can work through some of this anger and figure out how to let it propel me further forward.
I don't want him to have anymore if me. I feel like he's still taking but that must mean I'm still giving, right?
He stops by to see D under the guise of "charging the car" which I don't mind but then he makes a comment about something regarding the house and I find it critical and it triggers me and I react. I feel set up almost. So when he's here I spend a lot if time reminding myself to not ask him questions, to do my own thing, to not even be in the same room. He makes himself quite at home and even seems to take stuff without telling me (suddenly two chairs from the patio are missing and about 4 bottles of wine from a recent shipment).
I can hear him in my head say, "it's my house, too" and this is true but he can help clean the dog pee up from the playroom carpet then, right?
Then today, I asked him (prepared for a no or even a laugh) if he'd be willing to snake the shower drain (my long hair clogs any drain after a few months). He did it no problem, even cleaned up after himself. I was shocked.
He goes up and down, too, and that makes me go up and down.
Reactive.
I need to find my even-keel. Get back on my path.
What other things can I take back my power on? How do I state it?
It's a process and yea, of course you are going to be a little off. You will right yourself up.
I was also living in the home when this happened. I'm sorry, but, I dont think he should be able to just come over. I dont care if its his house too. Its your home that you are living in and unless he doesnt mind you showing up where he is living unannounced and making yourself at home, he should be told it isnt ok. Nor is taking anything without your permission.
"H, please call before you come over. I do not come over to where you live unannounced and expect the same from you." or however you want to say it.
Also, cleaning out the drain and stuff like that...figure out how to do that stuff yourself, ya know?
Time to start showing him that you heard him. Time to start realizing you are more than capable.
You're right, I need to learn to snake the drain and tell him that coming over for piddly stuff needs to be prearranged. Him coming over can be hugely disruptive, the dig goes insane for 30 minutes, D is talking a mile a minute because she's not sure when he'll say, "gotta go" and he's throwing questions at me about this and that. It just [censored] the life out of me and it's only 30 minutes or so.
Anyway, back to ME.
I don't want him to have any more of me. That's tough because he's rather manipulative (though he doesn't see this about himself). I don't want my anger to be a tie between us. I have to let it go. It's doing nothing for me but adding to my justification of being reactive and let's face it, there's no justification for that.
I feel like I'm back to taking small steps again but at least they're steps right?
The negativity seems to seep in. I need to find my PMA again.
Ss- as hard as it is to remember, sometimes it does just take time. I know I am very smart/analytical too, and I tend default to a tendency of trying to think my way out o the situation. Like ill 'solve' it by coming up with the right perspective that allows me to find Nirvana. The reality is we can't run from out feelings and there wi be a lot of pain from a loss so monumental.
That doesn't mean there's not value in everything we do. I'd like to think we'll learn more from our mistakes, process it more quickly, avoid responding to our emotions poorly, etc, etc. So I'm glad to see you doing all these things. But there is no way to fix it today where it doesn't hurt and you'd be inhuman if you could.
The biggest reason this is important to me is that it would be easy to blame all my unhappiness on the D, and tell myself that someday I'd be healed and either reunited or remarried and I will be in a better spot, yadda yadda. But I often question if this is just me self medicating with a fantasy. What if I can grow but am pretty much always going to have some of the same problems? What if I don't find an R that lasts? What if I never truly process all the emotions and make peace with a decision that is so hard to understand and accept?
I'd love to grow in all those ways and achieve those goals. But I'd also like to be able to enjoy being me. Right now and maybe ways that's a slightly abnormal guy with a screwed up situation feeling a lot of powerful, scary, confusing, inconsistent, and sometimes quite unpleasant emotions.
This isnt very clear so let me share an insight i had once: desperately seeking balance is about as far from being balanced as you can be. But truly accepting that you're just plain out of balance, that is actually very close to the balance we were seeking for before.
Ok, I'm hit or miss, I get it. But keep putting one foot in front of the other because you are on a great road. No clue where it leads so why is it so great? Beats me. Lets just have fun and go with it
Ss, I don't have any profound wisdom for you at the moment, so instead I'll let you know of how you picked up D2 and I last week. When she was sick with a stomach bug, in my thread you referred to her as "pumpkin pie". I thought that was cute, so when she was laying on my chest that night watching football with me, I told her she was my pumpkin pie. She said, "punkin pie?" I said, "Yeah, do you like that?" And she nodded her head calmly. Sweet little moment. Thanks!
About your anger, I'm sure you do still have anger at your H but do you think you might have been letting a little anger out at your BFF. You didn't feel OK being angry at her so you jumped on the other person who abandoned you.
Interesting perspective, labug. I need to think about this further. Major projecting? Yes, it's possible. Almost like I was venting about being abandoned by my BFF directly to my BFF but through the guise of bitterness about my H. Sneaky sneaky.
If that's what I did, isn't that just a little sick? Am I THAT dysfunctional? Oy vey.
How much do I typically do that, I wonder.
Most of us do it, we just don't realize it. That's why getting in touch with our emotions, what am I feeling and why am I feeling it is so important. Otherwise, we do react to everything.
uR is giving you great direction and again, I see so many similarities in your story and mine.
You can change. Your life can be different and better. I think I've told you I was so far in a hole, with so many dysfunctional defense mechanisms I thought I would never crawl out.
But I did, I'm even thinking of putting my therapist on an as needed basis.
Never thought I'd see the day.
I'm holding good thoughts for you.
SS, small steps, big ones, backward ones, all count...as long as you are moving.
You need to live your life as if you have heard and accept that your h doesnt want to be married at this time. That thought helped me figure out how to act.
It meant that I had to learn to rely on me. I hung shelves, did dry wall, fixed toilets. I learned more about finances. I would not call him or ask him to do anything. And I did it, SS.
That also means that he has to live with what he has decided. That includes no longer just comimg over. Sorry, but, he cant have it both ways.
I sense that you are a little afraid to set that boundary. What is that fear about?
It will be better for your daughter to know what is happening, too, when she knows he is seeing her and for how long. Children need that structure.
Yea, I get the manipulation. I also know that the anger keeps you stuck. It keeps you in the bad moments. It stops you from moving forward with your life because you can hold onto it and use it as an excuse.
I will tell you that once you let the anger go and once you start doing things for yourself without asking him for help or running things by him, you will start to feel more in control.
This is your life, S. Start living it. Leave him to whatever it is he is doing. Not your problem right now.
You can do this. Get good and strong. What an amazing opportunity for your daughter to see that. She is watching. Trust me on that.
He can only be as manipulative as you allow him to be. Dont allow it.
IRT Zeus:
Ss- as hard as it is to remember, sometimes it does just take time. I know I am very smart/analytical too, and I tend default to a tendency of trying to think my way out o the situation. Like ill 'solve' it by coming up with the right perspective that allows me to find Nirvana. The reality is we can't run from out feelings and there wi be a lot of pain from a loss so monumental.
That doesn't mean there's not value in everything we do. I'd like to think we'll learn more from our mistakes, process it more quickly, avoid responding to our emotions poorly, etc, etc. So I'm glad to see you doing all these things. But there is no way to fix it today where it doesn't hurt and you'd be inhuman if you could.
Oh man, you nailed it. I am definitely looking for the right perspective that will open the gates to Nirvana. Are you in my head?
How does one turn off their nature to analyze and think? Isn't this about accepting who I am and fixing things about myself I don't like? I like the analytical part of me... but I guess that's not the point. The point is that certain things help in this situation and certain things don't.
So far, hoping for the right perspective to open the gates to Nirvana hasn't worked. Huh.
And there's no way to fix it today where it doesn't hurt?
Are you sure? What about tomorrow?
I'm so short sighted and unable to sit in the discomfort. It's actually one of the biggest surprise for me in all of this... that I can't seem to find my footing and walk without limping or without resting after two or three steps and then having to look at the map again which leads me to wonder why I'm even on this journey.
We call that denial. Yes, I'll admit it. I was on my way to work this morning and a song came on that made me drift off into a daydream of our vow renewal ceremony and how amazing it would be and how we'd be so strong and committed... and happy. Deep down I thought, "Oh this is totally happening" and only NOW, hours and hours later am I able to come down from that ridiculous cloud and say, "meh, it's unlikely, sister".
Because I can't believe he'd be that much of a fool. Even with the little work I've done, he's a fool.
and here I am talking about him again. Sheesh.
desperately seeking balance is about as far from being balanced as you can be. But truly accepting that you're just plain out of balance, that is actually very close to the balance we were seeking for before.
This is profound, Zeus. Let me say it loudly and clearly:
I am just plain out of balance.
There I said it. And it's true. Very.
True and genuine acceptance is a problem for me. I need a step by step workbook on that, too.
I'm a smart woman but man, I can't seem to wrap my head around half of this stuff on my own. I can barely stand up without someone else telling me exactly how to do it.
Card,
I am so glad you and your D had a little moment there.
I have 10,000 little terms of endearment for my D7 and one of them is "pumpkin pie". It's great because let's face it, pumpkin pie is 10,000 times better than just "pumpkin".
She's also my poodle-pie, schmoodle, cookie face and freckle bug.
I'm grateful she allows me to call her all of these things because I know it's only a matter of time before she says, "mooooooom! Stop calling me that!"
labug,
You can change. Your life can be different and better. I think I've told you I was so far in a hole, with so many dysfunctional defense mechanisms I thought I would never crawl out.
But I did, I'm even thinking of putting my therapist on an as needed basis.
I definitely have a ton of dysfunctional defense mechanisms, many I can't even recognize myself and need YOU to point them out. I do worry that I'll never crawl out. That I'll be an 82 year old bitter woman shaking my fist and yelling at kids to get off my lawn and to take those hover boards somewhere else because I'm still bitter at my long since disappeared xh.
The concept of crawling out almost makes me want to fold into a fetal position and take a long nap. There's just so much... baggage... and blech.
I know that the process doesn't have to always be painful, I'm sure there's catharsis in a lot of it and that part I am excited to face head on. Wading through the muck to get to the catharsis, while totally worth it, isn't easy (I imagine).
I want to be that strong person though. The one who faces all the demons in the closet with only a little fear and the understanding that ALL will be better for having done it. My struggle and hesitation is that picking old wounds makes me feel vulnerable emotionally and physically. Like if the wind blows too hard it'll sting my heart because it's so raw from the healed scab that has been protecting it for so long and how do I heal it again?
I don't imagine wading through that muck can be a "fake it till you make it" kind of task and I keep waiting for the feeling of "Ok, I got this, I'm not superwoman but I'm almost her so let's do this" to take over... and I'm getting the sneaking suspicion I'm deluding myself into procrastination.
OMG, did I just type that out? I think that's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm waiting for Nirvana to appear (see Zeus' post above) BEFORE I tackle the ugly stuff. Well, that's hilarious. It doesn't work that way does it?
Ok, well, I'm glad I figured that out right here and now right before your very eyes.
I'm putting my spelunking hat on because I need to get buzy!
SS, small steps, big ones, backward ones, all count...as long as you are moving.
ok, well as long as backwards steps count, I'm good. I do hate staying still though. You need to live your life as if you have heard and accept that your h doesnt want to be married at this time. That thought helped me figure out how to act.
No more complaining and putting this off! Living as if I have heard and am starting to accept (after three whole months) that my H doesn't want to be married to me at this time means that I need to get busy living. I need to start having fun, not waiting to include him in the fun with my D, create traditions between D and me, work through my muck with no excuses and remember that my marriage is up on a shelf somewhere. That's also where I need to put H. Up and away.
This also means to me that I'm not actively cultivating a friendship with H. Coparents is the extent of our relationship right now and I'm happy with that. I won't let it be awkward because that's him having more of me than I'm willing to give. I don't like being uncomfortable so I won't put myself in a situation that makes me feel uncomfortable. I will choose my words wisely and ask for time to compose them so there is little room to perceive them as anything other than respectful, honorable and genuine.
I will take care of myself emotionally and physically (like snaking my own drains) without disdain that he is not here to help me pick up the pieces of me he left behind.
These are my first steps.
What do you think uR?It meant that I had to learn to rely on me. I hung shelves, did dry wall, fixed toilets. I learned more about finances. I would not call him or ask him to do anything. And I did it, SS.
That also means that he has to live with what he has decided. That includes no longer just comimg over. Sorry, but, he cant have it both ways.
I sense that you are a little afraid to set that boundary. What is that fear about?
I am notorious for not phrasing things well. My word choice and often my tone of voice comes across as condescending, controlling and punitive. My fear to set that boundary is 50% my delivery and how it's received which i can completely work on and practice. The other 50% of my fear is that I feel like it pushes him further away. I know it's what is necessary but the idea that he stops by makes me feel like he's actually trying to see me... but perhaps that's wishful thinking and I've had enough of wishes lately.It will be better for your daughter to know what is happening, too, when she knows he is seeing her and for how long. Children need that structure.
This is very true. My daughter especially. H isn't a man of consistency or schedules. He doesn't like being told what to do or being fenced in. It's a wonder we actually have a visitation schedule at all because he is SO not a schedule guy. Yea, I get the manipulation. I also know that the anger keeps you stuck. It keeps you in the bad moments. It stops you from moving forward with your life because you can hold onto it and use it as an excuse.
And it has definitely been an excuse for long enough. I'm taking a big step forward, even with the anger in my chest but I know as I walk I'll let it go. Right now, I'm choosing to begin to work through it and ACCEPT it. It'll take time but standing still being angry only makes me more angry and adds to my feeling of hopelessness. I will tell you that once you let the anger go and once you start doing things for yourself without asking him for help or running things by him, you will start to feel more in control.
The truth is, I already feel very in control of my own life. I just wish he were in it. That he wanted to be in it. However, I can only control ME. I think I'd like to start with genuinely learning how to control my emotions. This is a HUGE weak spot for me. I've always been controlled by my emotions and have been known to outburst or fly off the handle (hello, reactive?). I need to focus on controlling my emotions rather than them controlling me. I am NOT what I feel.This is your life, S. Start living it. Leave him to whatever it is he is doing. Not your problem right now.
In a strange way this is a relief. When he's around things are SO complicated. I like simple. Occam's razor all the way; though I'm not sure Occam's razor applies to self exploration. huh. You can do this. Get good and strong. What an amazing opportunity for your daughter to see that. She is watching. Trust me on that.
I can. I just have to start walking without knowing where I'm going for a second... then I'll see the horizon, I think.
I know my daughter is watching but I'll tell ya, I'm not sure she likes what she sees. She spent Saturday drawing pictures of her two karate senseis with "You're my HERO" written above it. She also made one for H. It's so sweet. I wish I could have one, too, though. 
He can only be as manipulative as you allow him to be. Dont allow it.
You're right. I just don't see the manipulation until I've already complied with whatever he wants and I'm resentful about it. I need to stop bending over backwards and gently putting my foot down. This will come with time, too. Thanks for the pep talk, uR.
These boots were made for walkin'...
Hi, Ss, I'm just getting caught up on you. I see you're being followed by the best of the best. That uR is a pretty special friend....she has talked me off of many a ledge.
There is nothing new I can add at the moment in the way of advice, since you've received such golden words already. Just tons of support and hugs for tonight.
Keep going, Ss. You got this.
Hey Ss, first time I've read through your stuff in a while. I feel your pain. Keep your chin up...you're getting a lot of great advice too.
First I want to say, you are a very good writer! Such good clear descriptions and analogies. You also maintain your sense of humor. In my case that too was a defense mech but I think it's good when we can see the humor in our situation.
The concept of crawling out almost makes me want to fold into a fetal position and take a long nap. There's just so much... baggage... and blech.
I asked my IC many times, "Is there hope? There's so much, can people really recover and get better from this place." Her simple answer was, "Yes."
It has taken some time, but the pain was inflicted over a long period of time, so it follows that it's not an easy fix. Doable but not easy.
So with this too, we have to drop our timelines and our expectations of perfection for ourselves and realize no one has that expectation of us, but us. And if there are those that do, we can let them go. Detach. We don't have to cut them out of our lives completely but we can say or think, "I won't allow you to hurt me anymore."
Sometimes we do have to drop people from our lives. I found I made better progress when I surrounded myself with like-minded people. People who weren't content to just sit in the muck. I credit 12-Step meetings for pulling me out of that initially. I picture meetings as the wrecker and I was in that deep hole, being slowly wenched up. I could go, be completely anonymous, not say anything if I didn't feel it necessary but just soak up the recovery. At one point I was going to 3 meetings/week.
I also volunteered. Not a lot (there are a lot of volunteer hours in my job
)but enough for me to focus on something other than my story. I'm the person who needs a schedule so I had IC on Mon, and went to 12-Step on Mon night, Thurs morning and Sat mornings. I did yoga and meditation at home. I also rode my bike (a little) 4 or 5 times/week.
I read a ton of books and online sources. That's how I've always tackled problems, read, read, read to understand. Initially some of the reading did depress me, thinking I had to o far to go but then it started giving me hope. Other people had conquered worse.
The process is like strengthening a muscle as we're building new neural pathways, so we need consistency and structure. My "structure" may not work for you. You'll find what works.
But it has to start with "I can" even before you believe that you can.
In a talk with my IC yesterday about my son, I said "I'm letting go" and then I looked at her and asked sheepishly "how many times have I said that?" but then before she could answer, I said "What I've learned is, letting go is a process, it happens in phases and stages and it's not linear. I let go, I hold on, I let go a little more, I hold on. It's not that I haven't let go in the past, it's just that now I'm in a different place and letting go."
This whole process is like that, a little progress followed by a little rest or what may appear to be "backsliding." It doesn't have to be negative, perhaps there was something we didn't learn when we were last in that spot, that we're now ready to learn. Our tendency is to chastise ourselves instead of saying gently, "Hmmm what am I to learn from this."
“People get into a heavy-duty sin and guilt trip, feeling that if things are going wrong, that means that they did something bad and they are being punished. That's not the idea at all. The idea of karma is that you continually get the teachings that you need to open your heart. To the degree that you didn't understand in the past how to stop protecting your soft spot, how to stop armoring your heart, you're given this gift of teachings in the form of your life, to give you everything you need to open further.
~Pema
(( ))
Labug, I just wanted to say that these words resonated with me so much. We've talked here often about how, when we begin to feel conflicted and i pain again, after a relatively calm phase, it perhaps means we are taking a new step. I think that is where I am at this week.
Ss, maybe you are taking a new step, too.
I hope you are feeling a bit better today. Let us know...
SS, I want to tell you a story. I was helping someone on here some time back. We would write back and forth everyday. I could tell he respected me a great deal.
One day, a friend of mine posted something to him and asked him what he would write to help this person. It was a post from a woman who was in a very bad way. She blamed herself for everything. She had very low self esteem. She had issues from her childhood. She was depressed and full of despair.
I remember reading this post and thinking - oh that poor woman. I feel so badly for her.
Until I realized....it was my first post to this board. The man I was helping didnt believe it...and then he got it.
I am telling you this to let you know that you can get through all the muck. You can get to a place where you feel good about you and your life. You can heal and grow.
It takes time and patience and resilience. It takes hope and hard work. But most of all - you just have to believe in the possibilities.
Hey SS, how are you doing?
I am doing quite well. Feeling solid.
Nothing to report except after reading a few other threads (mighty's in particular) I'm finding gratitude in the "simplicity" of my situation. That's not to say it's easy but it is simple and that's a humbling reminder that, as hard as all this is, it could be much harder and often is for others.
On Tuesday night I took d to karate and she got in trouble and lost her belt for a week. It's a long story but d has impulse control issues and I feel like teachers are often trying to punish her out of those issues but it doesn't work that way. It's frustrating that she gets in trouble for things she literally cannot control. Add to that that she has a vocabulary and articulation of a 10th grader and people forget she's only 7!!!!
I talked to h about it that night and he listened and supported. At first I was frustrated by him "handling" me but I stopped, breathed and reminded myself that I have to handle myself so he doesn't have to. I need to state what I need (his help with some of her teachers, etc), vent for a minute and move on.
I listened carefully and he was venting a little bit too. I validated and I could tell that helped him validate for me.
We sometimes get into these stubborn standoffs where we don't support or "give" to the other until the other gives first. It's sick but I think it's like dipping your toe in the water, is it safe to give or will I be punished or unappreciated? So, I dropped that game and gave first anyway. It worked.
He gave back.
I got off the phone feeling validated, that he understood my frustration, that we were in it together and we were both going to do something to help the dilemma.
This is 180 degrees different than pre BD.
Resolution? We've NEVER had that before. It feels amazing, even if it's just over something small.
I was also careful to be clear in my venting. I kept it brief, first of all. Long-winded vents often make H feel like I'm actually venting about him. I kept it short. I said something like "and I feel like I'm handling the impacts of D's behavior all alone" and I STOPPED. I knew H would interpret that as me saying, "you jerk face, I'm all alone in this and it's your fault" so I breathed and said, "I'm not trying to imply that you're not a great cop aren't or uninvolved. I think we work very well as coparents and your involvement has been wonderful so please hear my appreciation of that."
He thanked me for clarifying.
That felt good to have the power to keep the conversation clean and healthy with no opportunity for bad feelings to mar it. It felt even better to feel safe enough to compliment him and encourage him. It doesn't make me weaker to appreciate his new involvement with D. What a wonderful thing.
This is new stuff for me but I'm liking the direction it's taking me. We still only talk in relation to D. Nothing personal.
So, I'm working 2 am to 11 am on Black Friday. Talk about crazy. Strangely, I'm excited about it. I have a lot of fun at work. It's simple, no drama and uncomplicated. Just what I need to keep my mind off overthinking.
Juuuust got home. Whew, long day.
D7 is having trouble behavior-wise and I got a call right as my shift started at work from the principal. Great. My kid is always getting in trouble, it has ALWAYS been this way. I just never know how to get her back on track, it's like i have to let her right herself... which is hard when she's SEVEN!
Ugh, so dealing with that.
On my break I called H just to talk about D a bit. He offered to pick her up from school tonight and keep her tonight (he has her this weekend, too). I know he was reaching out and letting me know he'd heard me when I said I was at my wits end with D. He wants to give me a break. The truth is, I don't need a break from her, I need a break from people who can't handle her but his gesture was kind and I took him up on it. He left work immediately to pick her up.
I thought about that part for a bit. He left work immediately to go pick her up.
Pre BD he would have never left work early to pick D up from school for ANY reason. NEVER. It's nice to have this support from him regarding her.
At the end of my shift I received a text from him saying,
H: I'm thinking about sushi with D tonight. You're welcome to join us.
Wha?! He hasn't invited me out since BD.
I tried not to read into it. It's a delicious meal and I get to hug D after her rough day at school.
I respond:
Me: I'd love to! Thank you! What time?
(in retrospect, perhaps exclamation points evoke too much excitement. subtlety isn't my strong suit)
When I arrived I got a running smiling hug from D and a nice "Hello, glad you could make it" from H.
The table was a 4 top and I sat down next to D. H said, "Oh you're not going to sit here? ok." and pointed to the seat next to him with the place setting and moved it over to where I was sitting.
Only then did I realize there was no place setting where I chose to sit. Usually H either sits alone on one side of the table or next to D. It was strange and very out of character (even pre BD) for him to expect me to sit next to him.
Oh well. It means nothing.
We ate. We nagged D to eat her dinner. We talked about why she got in trouble today, and yesterday... and everyday. We talked about consequences of actions, trust, etc. I'm 99% sure it didn't sink in with her. I think I need to look into testing. Ugh.
Anyway, at the end of the meal, I thanked H for dinner and he said, "No problem, I'm glad you could make it."
That was nice, huh?
Anyway, that's about it. I'm really trying not to find hope in any of that and to just keep on keeping on. Way too much to focus on right now. After all, my marriage is in a box up on a high shelf as suggested by uR. I'm not ready to take it down yet.
Glad you had a nice interaction!
That's a small victory. Maybe one you can tuck away in that box on the shelf.
Great victory Ss! Good for you on being distant/detached without even meaning to!
Good luck with your D7.
Hugs, Lisa
Nice interaction Ss! I hope it gets even better for you with your H next time he asks you to join him.
Maybelle, Jefe, Lisa and Poirot, THANK YOU! Your encouragement means so much!
I am so grateful for all of your support and encouragement.
Hey S. Yes, it would probably be a good idea to get some testing done with daughter. Knowledge is power, right?
So, I think he is reacting to your changes. You are right, though, you should stay on your path and leave him to his.
You are doing great.
Nice job, Ss!
Completely relatable about the exclamation point.... I overthink that, too. I agree with you, tho. I believe it matters how we present ourselves, not overly excited, as it could be seen as a form of "pursuit."
My son was in trouble from the ages of 3-7.... Yes, we had him tested. Glad we did. Started down the add track, knowing that wasn't it for him. He was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 7. Through school programs etc....no one would see this in him today. ( not suggesting it's the same for your D, just advocating testing in general).
Keep going, girl!! Love your attitude!!
(((((Hugs)))))
Shining, I appreciate you sharing your story about your son.
I'm definitely looking into testing. She had a HUGE tantrum/meltdown at H's tonight and he called to discuss it. I can tell he is mildly traumatized by it.
Part if me is super glad he had to face that because I've done it solo for YEARS and told him something isn't right and he just wrote me off every single time.
Now he's saying something isn't right.
Oh how things change.
D was tested for Asperger's when she was 5. The doc basically diagnosed her before even meeting her, send us home with questionnaires scored them and voila! Asperger's. Later on we were seeing another behavioral therapist and said it seemed more like severe ADHD and ODD. Now someone else is telling us it's giftedness.
I'm so sick of people guessing because I freaking need answers! She's bored out of her mind in school but the principal won't accelerate her. She reads at an 8th grade level and has a 10th grade vocabulary. She taught herself to read at 2 years, 9 months, taught herself division and multiplication, French and has a borderline eidetic memory for music but she's horribly impulsive and genuinely cannot control herself. She is in trouble constantly and has been since she was 2. Teachers HATE her.
I can't imagine my daughter is the hardest kid on the planet but why are answers so hard to come by? We spent $10,000 and over a year at the behavioral therapists office with NOTHING changing even a little bit!!
She is on TWO (non-stimulant) medications after trying 10 stimulants with horrifying results. She is such a trooper because she wants to stop being the kid who gets in trouble all the time.
I just hate this so much. Add to her troubles her parents separation and... Well...
I know a little bit of what a struggle this is. I agree, testing would be really helpful.
Have you considered private school for her? Since academics aren't the issue a Montessori program might work well for her.
Good luck, I hope you find the solution soon.
Hey ss, I get it, too. I was so grateful we homeschooled cause I would have had a phone call from the principal every day. S21 showed signs of something early on (ingancy) we just didn't know what. As the years went by, it became easier and easier to see what it was. By 12 we knew he had OCD and then later OCPD along with it and probably a bit of a few other things.
His intellect is a force to be reckoned with.
Anxiety sometimes manifest in rages.
What do you want to do at this point? You're in a town with lots of resources and that can be overwhelming. I'm sure you've done your own research, what do you think it is?
We're with you!
Maybell,
She was in a Montessori program for preschool through kinder but got kicked out. Yep. They didn't want to out up with her inability to conform and be a quiet learner. The academics were challenging but her behavior was off the charts.
Now she's in private school with only 13 kids in her class and still struggles. The academics are NOT challenging and while she still does well her behavior is still a problem.
Labug,
I would not be a good candidate for homeschooling. She and I are so similar is so many ways and too much time together makes us butt heads. Plus, if I'm divorced, I have to work. See where I'm going here??
She has anxiety, too. That's part of it all. She's on meds for it. Anxiety, inability to self soothe (which means tantrums last for hours), incredibly easily frustrated (mostly be her own lack of perfection). I've gotten her to a point where she is MUCH more forgiving and patient with herself. For that I'm just so grateful because her self esteem has been so low she would talk about wanting to die.
What do I want to do? I want to do what it takes to get answers and I feel like testing doesn't even really do that. It's frustrating. Teachers don't understand fully when I say, "she can't control her impulses". They often think that means "she won't control her impulses so you have to be a tyrant and punish her all the time so she'll learn to control her impulses". No. That just isn't how it works.
Yes, my location allows me many resources but it's hard to figure out the best direction. We've tried so many already with no real results.
My instinct tells me (brace yourself) it's high-giftedness, with moderate ODD, severe ADHD and maybe mild Asperger's.
And if I'm correct, wtf do I do for her to make school a challenge but her behavior more appropriate?
The frustration is overwhelming.
Ss, the behaviors you're describing sound a LOT like the daughter of a friend of mine in Marin County. She wrote an article for Brain, Child and she uses the pseudonym Sadie for her daughter. I'm quite certain that if you reached out to her she would be thrilled to help you sort out how to talk to the teachers to get a more effective classroom experience for your D, as well as any friendship issues she might be having, etc. She writes to help parents advocate for kids who have unusual struggles.
Hope that helps.
Oh, and if you didn't guess... Maybell is not my real name so if you mention it to her she won't recognize it.
It's not?!?
Man, disappointed at every turn.
Maybell,
Thank you! I read the article and cried. Sadie's behaviors are not quite like D's but as everything seems to overlap when it comes to mental health issues, there are similarities.
I am definitely reaching out to the author. I'd love to reference how I know you but since Maybell isn't your real name (figured, Ss isn't mine either. Shocked?) I don't really want to say, "so I met this lady on a divorce support forum... do you know her?" LOL
Anyway, off to compose that email
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
If you tell her I was in her writing group before I moved she'll know who I am.
I'm glad that was helpful. Feeling helpless when your child struggles is the worst.
roger, Maybell. Thank you!!!
ss, I wasn't suggesting you homeschool. Choosing to homeschool or not is like deciding to have children...or not. Ain't nobody's bidness.
Just relating my personal experience.
BTW LOVE Brain, Child
Ok, clearly I need assistance with gently but solidly laying down boundaries.
I texted H this morning as I do every Sunday when he H's D saying she needs to do her piano homework and practice and how is that going to happen.
Why must I be the sole person responsible for this stuff? I got a call from the school last week because D didn't do her homework. She was with him the night before. I talked to him about it. His response: "I can't even figure out what she's supposed to do when I look in her folder."
Really? REALLY? You can't figure it out? Ask D? Probe? Draw conclusions?
He starts off everything with an argument with her and then wonders why she's so rude to him and sassy. Then he gives up because "it's just not worth the argument with D". Her doing her homework isn't worth the argument?
My suggestion this morning, as it is every Sunday morning, was for him to come get her piano book and practice in his studio at his apartment.. He suggested they'd just come over to my place and practice on the big piano. I said nothing. He comes over, sits on the couch, looks through magazines, I get D something to drink, get the piano book and pencils and then go about my business.
I'm in the middle of vacuuming and doing laundry when he comes to me and says, "I can't figure out what she's supposed to do". I say, "It's all written on the homework sheet the teacher sends home. I think you can figure it out" he addresses my tone. I tell him, "there was no tone. I believe in you to figure it out. I'm 99% involved in every single little thing! I know you can handle this"
Five minutes later he says, "I'm getting the vibe you don't want us here so we'll be out of your hair". I say, " there's no vibe. I'm going about my Sunday business as if you're not here. I'm vacuuming, editing photos and doing laundry. I'm emitting no vibe of disdain or resentment. I simply don't want to be responsible for her piano homework on your weekend while you sit on the couch reading a magazine." He said nothing.
After 30 minutes he said, "from what I can figure out, you've already done the homework, D". I say from the laundry room, " no she needs to finish it, she didn't complete it yet". He says, " well if you knew that why didn't you just tell me that?"
I say," because it's written clear as day on the homework sheet, 'please FINISH page 18'. I thought that was pretty easy to understand."
He said, "oh, I didn't see that"
Really? It's freaking HIGHLIGHTED in yellow at the top of the page. This is so indicative of his "help" pre BD. In order to get his assistance or for him to take responsibility for anything, I have to walk him through it, hold his hand and help him help me. Then he gets upset at my tone. And yes, I'm aware that I was slightly condescending. I don't like that but I'll say that the degree of my condescension was better and I didn't just let him off the hook like I used to.
I need to work on all this but I also think I'm still a crutch. He told me during the week that he doesn't have any pants for D. What do I do? Pack some up for him. I should have said, there's a great sale at Old Navy and we get a discount there. Instead, I did it for him.
We're only separated in living arrangements. I'm still taking care of him, picking up his messes and making things easy for him. I pay all the bills, buy all holiday presents, maintain the entire house,
I need a nice way to draw a boundary without him "addressing my tone" or seeing me as the b!tch. Is that even possible?
It might be more effective for you to go over the HW with D before she's with your H, and then if he comes over, for you to LEAVE THE HOUSE. He can't pick fights with you or sack out and not pull his weight when you're not there. Also, if you get a call from the teacher about her homework can you forward it to him in some way? Or ask him to take your D to piano so he has to be responsible to the teacher?
This is an issue where maybe brainstorming your alternatives would be helpful. Or coming at the problem backwards: "I don't want to police the homework. If I'm here, I will be put in that position. How can I back off?"
Another solution would be, when you do the handoff, to go over the homework with him before your D leaves, point out the highlighted portion, ask if he has any questions, and if he says he's got it, don't be available if he wants to come to your place for her to play.
Before he actually moved out, my H asked me to hang around his empty apartment all day to take delivery of his new bachelor pad furniture. I found that disgusting and so WRONG. I looked at him and said "If you want to be separated, then we have to be SEPARATE." I wasn't going to continue taking care of him if he didn't want to reciprocate.
We're only separated in living arrangements. I'm still taking care of him, picking up his messes and making things easy for him. I pay all the bills, buy all holiday presents, maintain the entire house,
This is one simple sentence. "Now that we're separated, I'm not going to take care of XX anymore." Bam. Done. Nice voice, but firm. He is completely taking advantage of you.
We don't actually do handoffs, maybell. It's taken care of by whomever picks her up from school that day.
To be frank, figuring out the homework is very simple. It's not like I had anyone show me how to figure it out. I open her folder and look. It's pretty easy to see if she did the worksheets or completed her spelling word sentences or not.
He still does not realize what it means to be involved. Dropping your D at school doesn't make you an involved dad, though it's much more involved than he used to be.
It's THIS stuff I honestly have little patience for and it's a trigger for me to speak condescendingly and unkindly. I need to just back off entirely or take it on entirely. Backing off means hoping he'll pick up the slack but HE DOESNT or he does the absolute bare minimum (well I told her to do her homework).
See, i take on these things because he does nit give a flying eff. I pay all the bills. Why? Because for the 6 months he did it we got 5 notices from Edison about having our power shut off. I'm not even joking. And he doesn't care. Somehow it's someone else's fault. He doesn't even have a key for the mailbox so he'd blame me for not getting the mail... But the bills give plenty of time to pay them and I don't go more than two days without picking up the mail.
He's still stuck in "it's not my fault" mode and I'm over it. It's not his fault D didn't do her homework on Wednesday, not his fault he can't figure out what her piano homework is, it's not his fault our marriage failed, it's not his fault!!
I'm sick of it being ALL me. And it's not all me, I know that.
I just wish he'd take some ownership, some responsibility. I feel like he's a 12 year old kid helping me by babysitting my daughter. Except H can drive.
Preaching to the choir, baby. Wish I could make it better.
Just got off the phone with H. Trying to plan this week between my work and all that.
He said he'd be picking D up from school except for a Tuesday to help me out since I work late on Monday and Wednesday and don't want her waiting for me at school that late. Here's our convo:
H: just so you know, I'm going to be at the house a lot this week. You know? With picking up D and all?
Me: why? You can't go back to your apartment?
H: well everything she needs is at the house and it's just easier.
Me: she just spent the entire weekend at your place, I'm confused about why you guys need to be at the house if I'm not here.
H: well, I don't have the luxury of having accumulated close to 8 years worth of stuff for her and she doesn't have a playroom here and all that!!
Me: well, she doesn't need 8 years worth of stuff but what kind of stuff do you need for her?
H: you know, toys and stuff.
Me: she doesn't play with toys, she reads.
H: well, there are things at the house I need sometimes and I need to be able to get it.
Me: like what?
H: like a sweater (his closet is completely empty here at the house), or a cable for the studio, or a tool.
Me: I have no problem with you getting what you need out in the garage.
H: well, that's good to know.
Me: I just feel I need to set a boundary here. I don't see any reason for you to be here if I'm not here.
H: well, there are things I need. Like wine that is delivered to the house or Amazon stuff that's delivered there or whatever.
Me: I have no trouble with you taking what you need when I'm here.
H: but you're increasingly not there and stuff and I don't know when you're working and it's just hard to coordinate.
Me: look, it's no biggie to just text me and say, "I want to grab a few bottles of the recent shipment of wine that came in, is tomorrow at 5 good for you?"
H: I guess I could do that.
Me: yeah. And I'm not a punitive person, I'll tell you if it's convenient or not but I won't keep you from your stuff if I'm home.
H: that's good to know.
Me: and if you have so much of your stuff here, why don't you get a few boxes and pack up the rest of your stuff?
H: maybe I will.
Me: ok, then you'll have everything you need.
H: ok. [silence]. Do you think you can meet me and D at Starbucks with her meds at 7:30?
Me: oh. Hmmm, I was planning on staying up late and editing these
last few sessions but I'll get up early, sure.
H: I know it's probably annoying for you.
Me: I'd tell you if I couldn't or didn't want to and I know you'd solve that problem. I've never implied or even suggested it's annoying, I don't mind so I'll see you at 7:30.
H: ok, I'm just trying to shadow box you.
Me: no shadow boxing necessary. I'm a grown woman. If I can't do what you've asked, I'll let you know.
H: ok. See you in the morning then.
Me: k.
I'm proud of myself. I was generally calm, straight forward and unwavering (all new things for me) and I don't *think* he's harboring secret resentment about my boundary. He's notorious for agreeing to something but being SUPER bitter about it. He doesn't like following rules, least of all rules I've placed down.
Hopefully I didn't push him further away by suggesting he come get the rest of his stuff but it makes sense for him to have it, right?
I think that was AWESOME. You've inspired me.
I agree! That was an excellent exchange, Ss. You should be proud.
Wow! Thanks Claire and Gan! I appreciate the feedback! Woo hoo, feeling even prouder now!!
Great job, and great recall
Thanks, Card! Great to see you!!
Hi Ss
I've been reading your thread for awhile and i see some similarities in our stitch. I just worked up the nerve to post about mine today, and I credit a lot of it from seeing your stitch - because I thought mine was unique and couldn't be DB.
I can relate to being tired about everything. It's an exhausting place to be, especially when a spouse doesn't take ownership of their own responsibilities and feelings.
I think your latest enter action was well done.
Good job, SS.
You know this isn't about the stuff, right?
Calibri, thank you for visiting!!
Yes, there are similarities.
It could be argued that I pushed my H away. I was under no illusion that we were happy, whereas you were very happy in your marriage.
The lack of ownership on our H's part, I'm convinced is something that only time can change but I have no expectations. I do have hope but since I can only change myself, I have to separate my hope from a mutual hope and make it more singular. Once I actually figured out how to do that (through all my avid supporters, especially labug and uRworthy among about 20+ others), I felt an actual relief wash over me.
I only have to worry about me?
Really?
Yep. And it's helping me detach significantly, figure out and BE who I want to be (not that condescending, self-protecting b!tch who keeps score all the time and tries to teach lessons by being emasculating).
You seem very level headed, Calibri, and that's to your advantage. Stay your course, lean on us and GAL.
It has helped to have limited contact. I've had to set some boundaries, as you read above, but in did it strongly and unlike the old me. I'm proud of that and I'm taking that success along this journey. I'm tired of counting my failures. I only have room for successes.
Onward!
Good job, SS.
You know this isn't about the stuff, right?
How do you mean, jefe?
I don't think his rambling about being at the house needing "stuff" was really about needing "stuff", that's all. I think he's looking for a way to stay connected. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time today.
I thought that, too, jefe. And the fact that he has not bought D anything to play with or do in his place...
But I'm assuming nothing and not allowing any of that to change my direction.
And see, that's why you're detached and I'm not so much.
And see, that's why you're detached and I'm not so much.
Know what, jefe? I don't even know how I got here. Seriously. I'm grateful because detachment has really helped me see things more clearly and help me stand without leaning so heavily on either H or friends or other distractions.
I wish I could give directions on where detachment is on the path but I stumbled upon it accidentally and I like it here. It's a good place to be... And grow.
I'll be waiting for you here.
"I'll be waiting for you here. smile"
Awe, that's so sweet, but I'm married. Sorry. LOL
Thank you dear. Maybe I will catch up with you soon.
"I'll be waiting for you here. smile"
Awe, that's so sweet, but I'm married. Sorry. LOL
Thank you dear. Maybe I will catch up with you soon.
I seriously just spit out my water! Lol!
I do have hope but since I can only change myself, I have to separate my hope from a mutual hope and make it more singular. Once I actually figured out how to do that (through all my avid supporters, especially labug and uRworthy among about 20+ others), I felt an actual relief wash over me.
Oh do tell you you managed this! I am pretty detached these days but find there's a strong correlation between how I'm feeling on any given day and what I think will happen in the end. Feeling PMA = it will work out (hopeful); feeling NMA = it won't work out (hopeless). I will be ok without H. I know that for sure. But I just wish I could be PMA and not have that raise my expectations of how this will play out.
So how did you separate your hope from a mutual hope and make it more singular?
I thought that, too, jefe. And the fact that he has not bought D anything to play with or do in his place...
But I'm assuming nothing and not allowing any of that to change my direction.
Pure gold!
Detached is such a good place to live.
I think being truly and lovingly detached begins when we let go of attachment to outcomes (cause we know we'll be OK) and we stop trying to control others, even "for their own good."
I occasionally challenge myself to pay attention (another good skill to develop) to every time I try to control another human being, even in the slightest way. It can be with a look, a tone of voice, phrasing, demeanor. I'm always surprised at how ingrained control is in us and so it shouldn't be a surprise that we do this a lot with our children.
So how did you separate your hope from a mutual hope and make it more singular?
Frankly, it all started with putting my marriage away. It's not an alive marriage. Trying to perform CPR on it is futile in my case. It just is dead. I know this. If there's any hope for H and I to be together again it has to be 100% a new marriage. 100%.
Knowing that is one thing but preparing myself for the realities of that is harder. That means divorce. Flat out, the marriage is over. So as MWD suggests, I mentally divorced my marriage (this is a process, I'm not done yet). Doing that, I developed hope for me. ME. Singular hope.
That's not to say I don't have hope in H but hope in him sets me up for disappointment because I can't control him. He's on his own journey and he's certainly not going to walk his path the way I'd want him to. To expect he would perpetuates the problems in the marriage that is dead and keeps me from working on my issues with control, condescension, etc.
I'm determined to not waste my pain. I'm going to learn from every single ache I've felt and will feel. And I don't want to carry resentment about it, I want to be free and clear and that only happens when you let go. I can't claim I've dropped the rope, not that kind of letting go. I mean, I've taken back my responsibility for my own feelings, my own work, my own path. There's freedom in that and so, so much hope.
H may or may not get there. It's out of my hands. I can only be the best me I know how to be. For me. For D. For any future relationship I'm in.
Detachment came naturally for me once I got here. I'm an overthinker by nature and mental distance (meditation, staying busy, leaning on myself) helped immensely.
As a bonus, I started to like things about myself again. I stopped trying to see myself through his eyes and began to look at myself through my own. I like order and systems. H is the creative type and nothing happens systematically or without chaos and a giant path of destruction. I was ashamed for a long time by my need for order and systems. I'm learning that that's just ME and there's nothing wrong with my need for that. I'm not over-the-top about it.
I simply like being able to find things, know there's money in the bank account, scan my card without worrying if the bill got paid, make a grocery list, post a school calendar in the kitchen where I can see it. These are NOT shameful things or reasons why I'm inadequate. I know this now and I'm proud of that realization.
I have some resentment to work through there but it's mine. Not his to fix for me by coming back.
I can only work on me and while the responsibility there is great, there's a relief that I don't have to fix him or help him fix himself.
Nope.
He will or he won't.
But I will say, he's an absolute fool.
Wow Ss ... you have come so far... you sound very strong and it looks like you have your chit together ... Keep at it!
Cali, I feel like I have my chit together... Mostly but given my need for systems and order, I can now at least FIND my chit.
Claire, thank you. You were instrumental in helping me get here. Truly.
I think being truly and lovingly detached begins when we let go of attachment to outcomes (cause we know we'll be OK) and we stop trying to control others, even "for their own good."
Thanks for that, Labug. Interesting to see you link it back to control. I need to do some more work in this area clearly.
Ss, you sound like you are a world away from when I last stopped by your thread. You are a different person, comfortable in your own skin. You should be so proud!
Thank you ganb8te! I am proud and I'm not lookin' back!
Ss, you crack me up. You say you don't know how you got to detachment, then you proceed to rattle off one of the best detachment roadmaps I've seen so far
And I don't think it was an accident. It was just persistence + time. Keep it up, and don't be discouraged by backslides or bad days! I still have them, but they're fewer and further between, shorter, and less intense every time. Now it's more like bad hours instead of bad days
I knew you'd get here
So many of you had so much faith in me I feel so blessed to be here, like you all thought I'd be. What would I do without you all?
Card, ever get writing and responding to someone and then say, "OMG, I just answered the question if been working through for the last month?" Well, that's what happened there with the detachment thing. It feels good. Natural. And what a relief because I was in a BAD way. Really bad.
And you're right, there are still not-so-awesome times but they're fewer and farther between and when they do arise, as they are wont to do, I can handle myself better in them because it's just ME I have to worry about.
Do you feel the same??
hugs
Nothing to add but wanted to know I've been watching and you are awesome.
I certainly feel the same, Ss. The biggest thing for me now is trusting that I'm not going to fall into a total funk. I can feel sad at times but I trust myself to pull me out of it. Self soothing in the words of David Schnarch (Passionate Marriage)! If I could only separate PMA from expectations of a positive outcome...
Maybell, thank you.
Ganb8te, thoughts are things. If you prepare yourself for falling into a funk, you will fall into that funk. Instead, shift your thinking. Prepare yourself to handle the funk, just as it is. Not by faking it, but by BEING it. Be the you who works through the funk, the strong you, the accepting you. It doesn't just happen, you have to practice it. I'm convinced no one is an expert at acceptance. It's a huge struggle and in most cases requires a funk.
Breathe, treat yourself well, do something fun, smile for a minute, and walk through it. Funks don't last forever. By definition, funks are short. And you never get a phone alert that you're on the other side of the funk (that would be so helpful!). Strangely, you actually get to decide how long that funk lasts, to a point. The power of that is immense.
Separating PMA from expectations of positive outcomes is a good thing to work on. We have positive expectations as a way to maintain control. It's almost magical thinking... If I believe it, maybe it will come true. I call it the Santa phenomenon. It's not just glass-half-full mentality, there are expectations there. Expectations of things we have absolutely NO control over.
PMA is, for me, something that comes naturally with some space and detachment. It's an expression of how I feel about my life while my marriage is on a shelf. I laugh, I sing out loud to '80s songs in the car, I polish my nails a color I like even if it's a little funky, I act silly with D, I poke gentle fun at coworkers who return the banter. I had to busy myself so I could stop over thinking and obsessing . Meditation helped here. I was able to observe what I was facing from more of a distance.
Distance has made all the difference.
So how did you separate your hope from a mutual hope and make it more singular?
Frankly, it all started with putting my marriage away. It's not an alive marriage. Trying to perform CPR on it is futile in my case. It just is dead. I know this. If there's any hope for H and I to be together again it has to be 100% a new marriage. 100%.
Knowing that is one thing but preparing myself for the realities of that is harder. That means divorce. Flat out, the marriage is over. So as MWD suggests, I mentally divorced my marriage (this is a process, I'm not done yet). Doing that, I developed hope for me. ME. Singular hope.
That's not to say I don't have hope in H but hope in him sets me up for disappointment because I can't control him. He's on his own journey and he's certainly not going to walk his path the way I'd want him to. To expect he would perpetuates the problems in the marriage that is dead and keeps me from working on my issues with control, condescension, etc.
I'm determined to not waste my pain. I'm going to learn from every single ache I've felt and will feel. And I don't want to carry resentment about it, I want to be free and clear and that only happens when you let go. I can't claim I've dropped the rope, not that kind of letting go. I mean, I've taken back my responsibility for my own feelings, my own work, my own path. There's freedom in that and so, so much hope.
H may or may not get there. It's out of my hands. I can only be the best me I know how to be. For me. For D. For any future relationship I'm in.
Detachment came naturally for me once I got here. I'm an overthinker by nature and mental distance (meditation, staying busy, leaning on myself) helped immensely.
As a bonus, I started to like things about myself again. I stopped trying to see myself through his eyes and began to look at myself through my own. I like order and systems. H is the creative type and nothing happens systematically or without chaos and a giant path of destruction. I was ashamed for a long time by my need for order and systems. I'm learning that that's just ME and there's nothing wrong with my need for that. I'm not over-the-top about it.
I simply like being able to find things, know there's money in the bank account, scan my card without worrying if the bill got paid, make a grocery list, post a school calendar in the kitchen where I can see it. These are NOT shameful things or reasons why I'm inadequate. I know this now and I'm proud of that realization.
I have some resentment to work through there but it's mine. Not his to fix for me by coming back.
I can only work on me and while the responsibility there is great, there's a relief that I don't have to fix him or help him fix himself.
Nope.
He will or he won't.
But I will say, he's an absolute fool.
You've got this, ss!
Peeling those layers can be painful but what's at the end holds so much freedom.
So 18 years of thanksgivings together. 18 years of spending thanksgiving with H's parents, who are NOT the most fun people to be around. Critical, complaining, bickering, high maintenance, unwelcoming, cold, unsupportive and I've basically had to be around them for every holiday since H and I started dating because I have no relationship with my parents. I'm over it really and I've felt H never appreciated how hard it was for me to be expected to just do that every year, every holiday.
To sit with his parents who don't give a flying eff about me, to listen to everyone bicker, to see H transform into someone I don't recognize... I just didn't want to do it ONE year. We are separated for goodness sake.
PLUS, last time FIL cooked, he dropped the turkey on the floor right after it came out of the oven. So, I started hosting and cooking. My ILs have strict dietary restrictions and making a meal is a nightmare let alone Thanksgiving!!
So this year, I said it'd just be the three of us. I don't think that's the worst thing in the whole world.
Well, my ILs are angry with me. One year out of 18 and they're mad at me.
I should care but I just don't. I'm tired of accommodating everyone, bending over backwards making the holiday great for them and I'm literally ignored by H and his family while I care for D and cook for everyone's dietary restrictions. Why should I volunteer for that?
Add to all that an awkward separation and I'm supposed to sign up for more awkwardness? Um, no.
Yet, for some reason, I feel guilty.
. Blech.
Ss .... I get it .. .but you should not feel any guilt, you did not ask for all this ya know? Maybe they just missed you because they had no one else they could ignore
.. KIDDING
Holidays seem to sugar up the Drama-llamas for whatever reason ... tis the season no?
Thanks, Cali, I definitely didn't ask for this.
I also think H thinks everything will just always be how it has always been except we won't be married. Well, he's in for a rude awakening.
Although, I will say, D was super upset that a bunch of people didn't come over tonight. I guess she didn't realize it was just going to be the three of us. She cried and was really sad about it. Last year we had 8 extra people. H took her to see his parents after dinner for a bit. When he came back he looked at me like I was some evil woman for keeping D from her grandparents on a national holiday. I wonder what he'll make my fault when it's not 'his year" to celebrate thanksgiving with her.
This holiday has made it so I'm around ah more and I feel like it's too much. I liked the distance we had and now we're back to seeing each other a lot and I don't like it.
Slow down, holidays have a way of dredging up old stuff that we then think we have to act on or those feelings color everything.
Your in-laws' anger is theirs to deal with. Don't take that on. Sometimes we have to have a boundary with unhealthy people in order for us to remain healthy.And the holidays are the best time to stay away from unhealthy people.
Slow down, holidays have a way of dredging up old stuff that we then think we have to act on or those feelings color everything.
Your in-laws' anger is theirs to deal with. Don't take that on. Sometimes we have to have a boundary with unhealthy people in order for us to remain healthy.And the holidays are the best time to stay away from unhealthy people.
Labug, you stop by at juuuust the right times. I so needed to hear that I need to slow down and not let my work in reactivity be for naught. I needed that reminder today.
Boundary setting is something I intend to get very good at. I'll admit that scares me because even though I'm tough, I'm also a people pleaser... My ILs are precisely the kinds of people who need tight and copious boundaries lest they trample all over me.
It's something I really need to learn to do for myself across the board. When it came to my ILs I hoped H would stand up for me but no, somehow I usually ended up under the bus or the butt of a joke.
Leaning on myself has really done a lot for me. I'd love to learn how to non-b!tchily lay down a boundary that'll be respected even by the most pushy people. That feels like level: expert and I am still navigating level: novice. One step at a time.
I'm in hour 5 of my 9 hour shift working retail on Black Friday and I can barely remember my name let alone type on my phone but it's a good exercise.
OMG! Working Black Friday in retail should help with boundary setting.
On a more serious note, the great thing about boundary setting is, when you have strong boundaries you need very few. But don't expect people to immediately respect them. You have to defend them because if people weren't boundary crashers, we wouldn't need to state boundaries (if that makes sense).
DO NOT expect them to fall in line and immediately aquiesce.
It's your H's job to set your boundaries even with his parents. It might be nice if he helped defend them but we all need to be able to say what's damaging to us.
If you set boundaries with in-laws and he doesn't stand with you then that gives you more information.
((( )))
Interesting.
I was briefly talking with H and the issue of his parents came up. I noticed how, by not validating my feelings and frustrations, I immediately felt he was defending them. Was he actually though?
I know I feel like he doesn't and never did have my back when it came to them. He'd roll his eyes, try to "talk me down" and the incidents I was upset over are no small potatoes. He wouldn't defend me when they got on my case or were critical of me whether I was in the room or not. It hurt. A lot.
I have a feeling he's the same when in their presence and I'm not around.
I think he's trying to be neutral but in this case, neutrality is perceived as permissive to both sides and I feel I deserve to have been supported and defended and validated when it came to his parents. Couldn't he have shown some loyalty and solidarity with me? Had my back. Not implied that I was over reacting when I attempted to set some boundaries. Ugh, that really hurts.
And even now, he's neutral. Trying to stay out of it and it digs up old feelings of being hung out to dry. I deserved better. So much better.
With divorce I smoothly escape having to deal directly with my in laws ever again, really and even if I did, with divorce comes the general assumption that they pick Team H. If we don't get a divorce, this is something we will definitely have to face. I won't be hung out to dry, often in front of my daughter, again.
That's not too much to ask, I don't think. There's a big possibility though that I won't get to ask. Such is the journey.
::sigh::
Mwd just posted about defending a spouse's honor on FB...
OMG! Working Black Friday in retail should help with boundary setting.
On a more serious note, the great thing about boundary setting is, when you have strong boundaries you need very few. But don't expect people to immediately respect them. You have to defend them because if people weren't boundary crashers, we wouldn't need to state boundaries (if that makes sense).
DO NOT expect them to fall in line and immediately aquiesce.
It's
not your H's job to set your boundaries even with his parents. It might be nice if he helped defend them but we all need to be able to say what's damaging to us.
If you set boundaries with in-laws and he doesn't stand with you then that gives you more information.
((( )))
I left out a very important word up there.