http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2504247&#Post2504247Here's my previous thread -- starting anew!
As I mention at the end of my previous thread, I want my H to leave me alone now. I need space and lots of it. If he hadn't left first, I think I would be tempted to be a WAW right about now. I KNOW I KNOW -- I'm a terrible DBer. This thread is my confessional for how much I feel I don't belong here right now.
I am doing all the right DBing things in front of my H, but my head and heart are no longer in it.
Just sharing my feelings -- I don't need to be set straight. I am fully aware of how far astray I am veering from the DB course.
Plus, I'm sorry, but who the heck buys someone champagne when they don't even know what the outcome of the MRI is? Please! Craziness!
I'm trying to think of a context when I would EVER buy someone champagne, let alone the spouse I left recovering from a brain MRI. That is some dopey stuff right there. I guess he could have gotten you underwear or hired a skywriter but other than that I can't think of anything less appropriate.
Plus, I'm sorry, but who the heck buys someone champagne when they don't even know what the outcome of the MRI is? Please! Craziness!
Even if they did know the outcome, I'm with 1foot, still a little out of bounds.
Gah!!!! How many times do you need to be reminded that DBing is for YOU???
Because of your demeanor here I often forget how far behind me you are in the timeline. Nobody here is invested in whether or not you really want your H back. We are invested in YOU and your well-being. That's all.
Because Vossy has a mental trick she uses where she stops negative thoughts by imagining a positive spin on the same circumstances, I'm going to throw one out here for you: your H bought champagne because he assumed you'd have a good result. He can't imagine you not being well.
Now don't pursue that thought with any observations about selfishness or OW or anything. Just imagine a good thought from him. And then leave it lying there. Because you need space from him, right?
"Because Vossy has a mental trick she uses where she stops negative thoughts by imagining a positive spin on the same circumstances, I'm going to throw one out here for you: your H bought champagne because he assumed you'd have a good result. He can't imagine you not being well. "
Me thinks I should employ this trick as well. And go looking for more about it.
I had read DB at the library so I don't have it on hand. What does it recommend doing in situations of cake-eating? I'm guessing NC? How does one be friendly and PMA and also go NC? I guess that's where I'm struggling. I am not capable of acting all "happy happy joy joy" around him anymore, so total NC (aside from communication about D14) is what I am wanting -- more for my own sanity than anything else.
I would love to assume a positive about his actions, but he has left me, and is not providing any monetary support for the household, and has left me to manage the raking, mowing, cats, bills, etc. alone, so his concern about my well-being is not something I can really invest a lot of confidence in at the moment. I think I'll instead spend the positive thinking on myself. Now I have some champagne to break out at New Years with my friends. And today I'm going to book a trip to New Orleans for my birthday with another friend. Things to look forward to!
Ahoy,
I'm at a similar mindset to you , there is no way I could be happy and joyful if I was to be in the same room as my W .
So I'm NC about everything even when she doesn't bother with kids I just leave it .
Wonder who has stolen there minds ?
"I would love to assume a positive about his actions, but he has left me, and is not providing any monetary support for the household, and has left me to manage the raking, mowing, cats, bills, etc. alone, so his concern about my well-being is not something I can really invest a lot of confidence in at the moment. I think I'll instead spend the positive thinking on myself. Now I have some champagne to break out at New Years with my friends. And today I'm going to book a trip to New Orleans for my birthday with another friend. Things to look forward to!"
I can see where your coming from here. Have fun in NoLa!
"Wonder who has stolen there minds ?"
I don't know but when I find out I'm going to go all Dawgy on them and kick them in the....
I would also like to know how to act when H is cake eating. I understand that I should be acting "as if", etc. . What I wonder about is if I should tell H to arrange to meet D18 and D23 somewhere other than our house. Maybe meet for lunch or something. Perhaps that would allow him to miss me (maybe, maybe not). But if I do that then I won't have opportunities to show him changes I am making within myself. I'm confused.
On a positive note, I am feeling stronger with fewer crying spells. I actually had a day that I didn't cry one time!!!! That's progress for me!!!!
dgb60, maybe plan something at your house (have friends over doing some kind of activity) so it's not convenient for him to meed your daughters at the house. He needs to do that elsewhere. The less he sees of you, the more likely he is to wonder what you're up to. The changes you are making are really for you, not him, so don't worry whether he sees them or not, because it might not make any difference in your R, but it will make a difference in your own life and sanity.
As of yesterday (and this might not last), I've decided that I don't care whether my H sees my changes or not. They are really not for his sake anyway. My changes and goals are as follows: 1. no more victim narrative for me; 2. moving on with my life without fear and without feeling the need to seek safety nets. This includes not constantly looking over my shoulder wondering all the time if my H is seeing my changes, or wondering about his state of mind. I am my own safety net. Not even friends and family can really do anything about the situation. I am the only one who can make this situation better for me, so that's what I'm going to do.
Hi Ahoy,
I'd be happy if anyone brought me champagne. I'll come take it off your hands if you like!
As long as he didn't make you share it with him then I figure it's all good. Drink it while taking a long hot bath.
I love your birthday trip idea. Fun!
As Maybell said, your timeline is pretty recent - about the same as mine in fact. I get what you are going through. And I struggle with the same questions you mentioned:
I had read DB at the library so I don't have it on hand. What does it recommend doing in situations of cake-eating? I'm guessing NC? How does one be friendly and PMA and also go NC? I guess that's where I'm struggling.
I've asked this about 100x on my thread. I'm not sure I know the answer yet but basically it is to:
-focus on yourself and being the best and happiest you can be
-don't contact him first for reasons other than kids etc (NC)
-if he contacts you (about anything) always be polite, friendly and show PMA all day long, unless he's a jerk in which case ignore it
The last point is really important and something that confused me a lot. How to be friendly but NC? Here is an example of what I did. Let's say your H emails or texts you about your daughter something like "I'll pick up D14 today at 4pm"
Now in a mean angry cold mode you could reply "fine" or "ok" or whatever. But in happy PMA all day mode you say "Hi! That sounds great!" You don't have to ask any questions like "how are you?" or any of that. You can, but no need to.
Why should you do this? Because it conveys your happy and confident attitude. It makes him think "wait, why is she being nice? wait, why is she happy?"
It works. It makes him nicer to you, it makes him think that when he contacts you, you will always be friendly and cool. It makes him wonder why you are doing so well when he is perhaps not so happy himself.
Maybe you are over him and the relationship. Maybe not. But NC and seeming happy is not that big of a commitment so even if you are over him there is nothing wrong with trying it.
Now, if he contacts you and is rude or does something stupid, just ignore him. Don't do what I often did and explode.
I'm sure you already know all this but I'm just typing it up in case it helps you or someone else.
Hugs, Lisa
Thanks Lisa! I think one issue is that my PMA in the past has led him to believe that we can be best buddies and friends forever, so he gets to enjoy his exciting new affair while having an awesome supportive wife who is so upbeat and validates him at every turn, even when he's destroying our family.
I was responding to all of his communications as you recommend above -- upbeat, friendly, short. I don't plan on acting cold toward him, but I think I also need to dial back the positivity toward him. Because I really don't feel positive about him at all, and I just can't fake that anymore. I can be calm and businesslike and neutral, but I just can't do the sunshine and rainbows act anymore with him. It just facilitates his cake-eating and feels dishonest to me.
Luckily, he isn't rude because I don't give him many opportunities to be rude. I just feel the need to disengage with him as much as possible.
I really appreciate your advice and support -- I know I'm early into this race, but at the same time, our dissolution plans are supposed to go forward in January (just two months away), so in my case, I'm being forced into a sprint. At least I won't be dragged through his foggy nightmare for years on end, and can get on with my life...
Thanks Lisa! I think one issue is that my PMA in the past has led him to believe that we can be best buddies and friends forever, so he gets to enjoy his exciting new affair while having an awesome supportive wife who is so upbeat and validates him at every turn, even when he's destroying our family.
I was responding to all of his communications as you recommend above -- upbeat, friendly, short. I don't plan on acting cold toward him, but I think I also need to dial back the positivity toward him. Because I really don't feel positive about him at all, and I just can't fake that anymore. I can be calm and businesslike and neutral, but I just can't do the sunshine and rainbows act anymore with him. It just facilitates his cake-eating and feels dishonest to me.
Whoops! I was posting on your old thread. I've been struggling with this too - Being upbeat and positive in the middle of dissolution/divorce proceedings feels inauthentic.
I'm aiming for calm and businesslike and when truth darts are necessary, I'm doing my best to state them simply and without malice and move ahead.
My goal is only no ugliness or anger for now. Once we have an agreement in place - I think I can manage more, but that's because I have two young children that we need to co-parent together for the next 15 years.
And I know it shouldn't matter, but I do think if things ever end with OW, it will be easier for me to be positive with him. The fact that I have to send my kids off to the two of them every week is still raw and difficult.
Hi Ahoy. Love the new thread tittle !!!!!!! I have the same issues re the pma but I keep it up because at best it might let W see I will be ok either way and at worse it annoys the crap out of her !! LOL.
Have no doubt that the champagne was a positive. If he didn't care at all then no thought let alone champagne. As for him expecting you to be ok Well I have to agree with him there (. Sorry LOL) because I expected you to be ok too !! Someone with your strength justs makes it seem like nothing could stop you !
Keep along the path you have chosen and all you will hear on here is support even if it doesn't always sound like it. Take care and watch the bubbles don't go up your nose !!!!!
"I had read DB at the library so I don't have it on hand. "
Honestly, this is why you didn't DB very well. If you aren't willing to spend a few bucks for the book, it probably reflected that you didn't think the situation was worth it.
raliced, lisa, and rd, you guys are great! Thank you for your constructive feedback!
Bond -- I don't want to have a book on D sitting around for my teenage daughter to see, which is why I don't keep it in the house. I live 1 block from the library where I go FREQUENTLY to read that book (and also the books on the divorce process, because let's face it, I'm a realist). Please don't make assumptions. I'm sure lots of other people on these boards would welcome your feedback, so please feel free to share your advice with them instead.
Thanks to those of you who did chime in with suggestions -- you guys are awesome!
As I mention at the end of my previous thread, I want my H to leave me alone now. I need space and lots of it. If he hadn't left first, I think I would be tempted to be a WAW right about now. I KNOW I KNOW -- I'm a terrible DBer. This thread is my confessional for how much I feel I don't belong here right now.
I am doing all the right DBing things in front of my H, but my head and heart are no longer in it.
Just sharing my feelings -- I don't need to be set straight. I am fully aware of how far astray I am veering from the DB course.
Everyone takes a different course. Mine is much the same as yours. Luck to you.
My dissolution papers are being revised for the 2nd time and will be signed by December 1.
Ahoy. Go and read what Maybell wrote on the previous page and then read your new thread title again.
Being friendly, upbeat, keeping a PMA, DBing.
IT'S FOR YOU.
You can still keep it short and business like for idiot features, but you will be doing it for you, and also D.
(Not so) Old Dog xx
Hi Ahoy, what Old Dog said!
I totally get that he doesn't deserve you to be nice. But it is not nice for HIM, it is nice and upbeat for YOU! You get to be the queen of awesomeness. You get to show him that you are always happy no matter what, and it has nothing to do with him. That is what will upset him. If you are cool, short, blunt - well, that is what he expects. He is out there making a new life with OW, he expects you to be mad, annoyed and cold. The more you seem happy the more you throw him off.
But I get it.
Honestly though, when you are really done with him you won't care at all. You won't be upset and you won't be irritated. You will not care. Nothing he does (except terrible things) will ruffle your feathers. So I'd venture that you are not done but that you are protecting yourself. I get it. But my advice is to only show him the happiest Ahoy you can. Not to get him back, but to get back at him if you want to think of it that way.
Imagine tomorrow you meet the man of your dreams. That guy on the white horse. And on top of that you win the lotto and your daughter gets into Harvard University. You somehow know everything will be perfect now and everything in life will go your way. Wouldn't you be happy? And imagine your H sends you a text message while you are in the midst of your dreamy life. You have a permanent smile on your face. How do you reply? You are friendly and happy, because you are in bliss land.
That is how you want to seem in every interaction with him. That will not only make your future relationship better but it will also bother him. Isn't that great?
Big hugs to you!
Lisa
"I don't want to have a book on D sitting around for my teenage daughter to see, which is why I don't keep it in the house."
Not sure what this has to do with you not getting the book for yourself. In fact, it could be a plus to show her what makes a good relationship. Sometimes I shared a few things I read with my kids when we were going through our troubles so they could understand what the right thing to do was.
It also allows you to write notes in the book that refer to your specific situation.
Just saying.
Hey Ahoy - How's it going? Everything OK?
Hi raliced -- thanks for checking in. I've been trying to focus on other things for a while -- I tend to get sucked into the boards, and needed a break. (i still read your thread though and keep tabs on your situation)
I've been doing better, moving on with my life. A friend (who works with H) wrote to me today to say that my H copied her on an email to boss asking if he could include me in a dinner event for work. What is up with that? He just got himself a new bed and visited his girlfriend, so I can only think that he is wanting to invite me as a social lubricant (because I'm good at those things) or to show his work associates (many of whom are my friends) that things between us are amicable. Either way, it only serves his needs as usual.
I plan to decline. I'm trying to decide whether to just decline, or to say "I don't feel that it's appropriate to attend a work dinner as your wife when you are seeing someone else." Would welcome advice.
When I first heard that he was thinking of inviting me, I was upset because at this point I just wish he would leave me alone if he doesn't want to have a future relationship with me. I want him to stop yanking my chain. So I have to stop allowing him to yank my chain.
Of course, before I came to this logical conclusion, I ran out and bought a hot dress to wear to blow his socks off at the dinner with my new bod, charm, social graces, etc. Then I realized that I don't want to audition for my marriage, and remembered that he has a girlfriend. No thanks.
But at least I have a new hot dress!
I plan to decline. I'm trying to decide whether to just decline, or to say "I don't feel that it's appropriate to attend a work dinner as your wife when you are seeing someone else." Would welcome advice.
I would totally go with #2 - but I seem to be a little more of a harda** than others here. I would probably just add "Thank you for the invitation"
You need to find another opportunity to wear that dress though!
Definitely need to rock the dress somewhere else! You go girl!
I know this mindset is controversial on here but I remember Train giving me advice along the lines of H I will not live in a open M. While I didn't say this because I had already been served with D papers and H still wouldn't tell me he was dating someone I did go a different route. H showed up in a car and acted like it was from his shop. I knew it was a lie. I just calmly said as he was spewing his story.. Please don't insult my intelligence. We both know that's not the truth and definitely not a car a 'man' would drive and maybe one day you can be honest with yourself enough to figure out what truth you are living. And got in my car asked the boys to say bye and left.
Not that this is tailored to your situation but I guess you have to figure out where you stand. This is all hypothetically speaking if he does ask you but ...
What purpose would you attending serve for you?
I personally don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. If you are adamantly not okay with your H having an OW (and I'm not insinuating that anyone is okay with this but meaning are you willing to stand up and put your foot down versus sweeping it under the rug) then I would not go. He needs to know an OW while married is not acceptable and you will not be arm candy to make him look good and that things are okay.
I don't know if me changing my mindset from finally not putting up with his sh!t woke him up or what but things really started changing for me when I started standing up for myself when I knew he was lying vs me just shutting down and acting like it wasn't happening
Thanks ladies! And I certainly welcome the advice. T0324 -- I agree. I have nothing to gain by going. It would only serve his own purposes, and I don't want to be in an open marriage or pretend to be his best buddy. Let's see if he even gets up the nerve to ask. Meanwhile, because he is too lazy to use his new address for anything, he just received what looks to be a notice from the bank and a new credit card, as if his cards had been stolen or lost while he was visiting his girlfriend. Losing his cards and racking up parking tickets -- the fun never ends!
Number 2 for sure. He needs to be real clear why you're not planning on going.
Hi Ahoy, devils advocate time.
Are you sure he is only inviting you as a social lubricant or to show his colleagues that things are fine with you? Are you certain?
If I had an important work event the last thing I would want to do is invite my ex with whom I have a strained relationship, no matter what their social skills are like. But maybe that's because my social skills are ok? haha
Maybe he is inviting you because he feels you might accept since your friends are there? Maybe it is a "safe" way for him to invite you to something.
Maybe he would rather be there with you than this new girlfriend of his.
Of course, you know him much better than I do
but from your description I am not convinced he has such selfish motives.
Personally I might consider going if I could rock a hot body in a sexy dress, show off my social skills that he is jealous of, socialize with friends and have a good time at a free party. Show him what he is missing out on.
Just another view point, feel free to tell me to piss off.
Hugs, Lisa
Sorry, Lisa, I'm with everybody else on this. While your description of his motives could be right, Ahoy's path seems clear to me. Rock that dress where you're the star.
I think if he didn't have a girlfriend then I would probably accept his offer, but I don't want to put a lot of effort in doing the "pick me" dance for him at a work dinner. I think I would get my hopes up, then come home disappointed as usual and cry for a week. That is a cycle I'm not interested in repeating. If he were really interested in being with me, then he would dump his girlfriend and tell me that. But he's not, and I'm tired of playing games. I think dropping the rope and being direct with him is what I have to do. Who knows if he'll even ask. He might have been jerking with me, since he copied my friend/his colleague on the request to extend the invitation -- he knows she tells me everything. I just can't figure out what on earth is going through his crazy little mind.
Hi Ahoy, yeah I hear you. Just putting it out there!
You go girl!
I agree. If there was no OW I would agree to go show yourself off but going while there is a known OW
He didn't bother asking after all, so it is a moot point. Wish I hadn't wasted any emotional energy trying to decide how to respond in advance. When will I learn?
He didn't bother asking after all, so it is a moot point.
So....where are you going to wear that dress?
To his funeral! (Just kidding -- couldn't resist.) The dress is proper enough for work purposes, so I might wear it to go meet some potential work contacts in the coming months. Or I'll have to insinuate myself into some holiday parties. Most of my friends here have little kids though, so there aren't many dress-up opportunities, alas.
Hi Ahoy. Positive is that the dress looked good on you. Negative is your H is still an idiot !!! I have read a lot of posts on here and it seems rare for WAS to. be happier in the long run. While I know this does not help us , it is a comforting to know that karma is alive and well !!! I have read your posts since I started on here and your strength and kindness shine bright. Your sadness and frustration also shine and it's hard to read, so it must be 1000 times harder to endure. My I/c is a spiritual lady and looks at things in a very holistic way. Her view about WAS is that until they sort themselves out why would we want to be with them We are working on ourselves and they are not. End off If and when they see our changes and decide they want to work with us at an R , we will be in a position to let them or not I am glad I ' meet' you and thank you for all your kindness. If I end up without W , I hope to meet someone with your qualities. Take care Rd
Rd, Thank you for always being there for me, and for the sound advice, which comes at a much needed time. I spent last night comforting my D14, who started crying while listening to Xmas music because she says that Xmas is ruined for her forever because it will always be a sad time now. The holidays are going to be very hard on her.
I'm so glad to have met you too, and it is nice to know that there are good people like you in this world like you.
"Her view about WAS is that until they sort themselves out why would we want to be with them"
I'm confused on why ANYBODY would want them in this stage. What about that is attractive. They are totally self fueled and driven and this is appealing?
Hang in there Ahoy.
To his funeral! (Just kidding -- couldn't resist.)
My high school boyfriend went away to the Air Force and met a girl that he married back in our hometown. In the place I grew up, it's common not to send printed wedding invitations, but to invite the community through a newspaper announcement. So I went to his wedding. In a black dress. Yes, I did.
so yesterday was anniversary. H sent me a text saying that he was thinking of me and was grateful for our years together. Said that even though he could have done everything better that he wouldn't trade it for anything.
But he did. for another woman. So why is he bothering me with this text. Let me indulge in a little mind reading:
1. he feels guilty
2. he wants me and everyone else to see him as the good guy in spite of everything
3. he wants attention, which I have not been giving him
4. he wants me to be his "buddy" and friend
Probably in his mind he is convinced that sending me this "nice" message on our anniversary was a considerate thing to do. But of course for me it sends me right back into my sad place and makes me angry. I really do want him to leave me alone if he is not interested in rebuilding our relationship and family. I will not engage in a back-and-forth text session about the differences in our perceptions of our marriage now, or point out the ways in which his text was completely ridiculous considering the circumstances, or even waste my energy telling him why I'd prefer he didn't contact me with anything that isn't directly involved in coordinating our D14's schedule. Instead, I just am not responding at all. I need to continue on my path of detachment, and engaging with him in R discussions will not help in that respect.
In other news, we had an awesome early Thanksgiving with my sister. We all cried at some point and had a group hug. I asked my D14 why she was crying, and she said "Dad." I asked "because you miss him." And she gave me a look like I was crazy. So I guess she wasn't missing him, just mad about what he's done. I'm off to visit more family next week (without daughter). I'll be sad to be away from her, but glad to be in the arms of my wonderful family. Thankful for them and the support I've received on these boards.
Hi Ahoy, yep that sounds like a guilty text to me. And I completely get why you would not want to hear from him at all. It also sounds like he is unresolved, because if he was just over it he wouldn't acknowledge the anniversary at all.
I hope the rest of your family time goes well!
Hugs to you, Lisa
Hello Ahoy... Happy for you that you'll get to be in the loving arms of your family next week. And yes that is clearly guilt in his letter. Good for you that you left him hanging. Keep taking care.
I'm down with the guilt, too. No other reason to acknowledge it unless you are thinking about it.
Seems a little insensitive to send unless you're planning on doing something about it, which I don't see here just yet.
Hi Ahoy , just saw your post re the text about anniversary , like everyone else guilt but also it shows he is thinking about you. I wouldn't mind read about it because no one knows what it means , maybe not even him.
Sounds like a great time with your sis and I hope the meeting with other family went well.
Your post seemed upbeat even allowing for some of the subject matter so that was nice to read. Bit about D was sad but aleast she has an awesome mum. !
Take care. Rd
Back in my home state with family -- loving it, though missing my D14. I had to get up at 4 a.m. to catch my plane. After deplaning a random stranger stopped me to tell me he thought I was really beautiful. Made my day. I felt terrible -- lacking sleep, eyes rimmed with red, tired and sad. It takes so little to pick up my spirits at times. I need to remember to give more compliments to others. Sometimes that's all it takes to change someone's day completely, and it's such a small gesture. Happy Thanksgiving all!
Probably in his mind he is convinced that sending me this "nice" message on our anniversary was a considerate thing to do. But of course for me it sends me right back into my sad place and makes me angry. I really do want him to leave me alone if he is not interested in rebuilding our relationship and family.
Just adding my two cents in to say I'm with you on this. I'm in that space, myself. If you're not choosing me, then go away, because interaction with you makes me remember you're not choosing me. :P
Hi Ahoy. Beautiful on the outside as well. !!!!!!!! Your H must be mad.
Great to read how the compliment gave you a lift. My Ds tell me I'm handsome (LOL, love really is blind). Still makes me feel good Take care. Rd
H keeps copying me on videos of our daughter that he's sending to his family. Although I'm grateful for the videos, I think he is doing this (mind reading) to make it seem like he and I are on great terms to his family, who see that I am copied on the message. And, I guess as far as he's concerned, we ARE on great terms, since I no longer share my feelings with him. He is truly oblivious.
Had a great Thanksgiving with my family. It was really difficult to leave them to return home. Today I'm making holiday treats for the neighbors, sending out holiday cards, catching up with friends by phone, and getting things in order around the house. Wishing a peaceful and fulfilling weekend to all!
(Wishing I was a neighbor)
Just got another ticket, thanks to H. This time a toll road nonpayment violation when he was going to visit GF (though he told me he was flying elsewhere)... Sigh. Jefe -- you would like it -- I made Texas caviar.
Texas caviar? I'm intrigued...
Jefe how can you not know what Texas caviar is? I'm not even from TX and I know. Of course, H is from Texas. I guess that helps .....
OK, I Googled it. I know exactly what that is, we just don't call it that. I was born and raised here. I'm like 5th generation Texan. Good stuff!
I didn't know Texas caviar either!
I know now.
Will try recipe
Vanilla
Just got D14 back. She started crying instantly, saying she wishes she could have been with me for Thanksgiving instead. Also, H finally admitted to her that he has a girlfriend -- showed her the picture of her online. It's the same person I suspected (out of town). On the one hand, I am glad that he's being honest (semi-honest anyway) with her that he has a girlfriend. On the other hand, it makes things more final. I don't see how we can return from this place. D14 even tells me that I shouldn't take him back because there's no way that he could be trusted. I'm so disappointed in his lack of character. The two things I value most are honesty and loyalty, and he is neither of those things. So why do I still care? Why am I still crying about this? Why am I suffering from a broken heart, when I KNOW, deep down, that I'll be better off without a cheating liar of a husband? I feel so deceived. And lonely.
At least all my neighbors liked the Texas caviar (and Jefe, I'm sixth generation, my D14 is seventh). One came by just to check on me (before I gave him the caviar). He's the same one who takes care of my leaves for me (gratis) ever since he heard about my situation. Two other neighbors invited me to a concert and said that they are praying for me. I really don't want to be seen as a victim or a pity case, but I do appreciate their support. Feeling very down at the moment. Probably just hormonal. I'm sure my friends are tired of hearing my sob story by now. I really need to find a new narrative...
Hi Ahoy. So sorry for D. I appreciate people need to live their lives but why do they have to rush at it without thoughts for any one else. Your H should have given his D a lot more time to deal with the sitch and very slowly introduced the idea of someone else. It's like the WAS selfishness knows no bounds. Sorry to hear your so down but bad days are gonna happen. You've shown great strength on here so please know that you will come out the other side You have a lot of people on here cheering you on. Take care
I think that was a little insensitive of H to do that to your daughter.
Only you can decide if you can return from this place. It certainly can be done. And boy have I ever had the same thoughts that your having. Why do you still care? Love's a funny thing.
Glad you are there for D right now.
Ahoy,
I think that the vets might, choose to comment, but it might seem appropriate for some boundaries with H and his EA/PA and your D14.
A picture from online? A dating web site, FB or some such doesn't seem very personal to H. Not a happy snap on his mobile phone? There is a not so good smell about it.
You and D deserve better.
((((Hugs)))))
Vanilla
I have been avoiding H. Not responding to his texts or emails unless they are about D14. So today I get an email saying he wants me to come to the door when I drop off D14 so we can chat and catch up about things and discuss D14's schedule and such. I told him I needed space, and but that I'm always happy to discuss D14 and her schedule by text or email any time.
Of course, he was more than happy to drop off D14 without coming to the door when he first left me and "needed space" to "find himself" (aka sleep with his girlfriend). Now he wants to show D14 how "civil" we are when dropping off by being able to chat with one another during drop off? Why? Because he once again wants to put on a show that everything is peachy (it's not), because I haven't been giving him the attention he was used to receiving (I no longer care now that I've figured out he's a narcissistic jerk), and because he wants to yank my chain to see if I'm still pining away in pain, longing for him (nope! tootle-loo, cheaterpants).
He wants his cake (me being friendly ex-wifey all smiles and supportive) and to eat it too (home-wrecking girlfriend). I'm not going to play that game. I can be civil, and I am happy to coparent effectively with him, but I am not going to do the dog and pony show for him anymore. He can be as phoney as he likes, since that is what he does best.
He says that he didn't want to hurt me and regrets that I no longer want in-person interaction with him. Can't imagine why not! He hurts me over and over, is intimate with me, then her, then me, then her before vanishing, lies to my face, lies to my daughter, but he wants to have fun little convos at the door and "catch up on each other's week"? No thanks. Jeez.
1.) ROFLMAO @ "cheaterpants". Love it. Silly girl!
2.) ROCK ON. You got it, girl. Well said.
3.) I love the "I'm sorry I hurt you" these folks throw out; BF gave me that spiel, too. If they honestly didn't mean to hurt us and didn't want to hurt us, they could have thought about their actions before they did them! Truth is that they didn't CARE that what they were doing was going to hurt. Nimrods! *shaking my freakin' head*
Nods uh huh, cheaterpants!
I do really like that.
Ar$$hats a good one too or f^*%tard as s16 says.
haha good for you Ahoy! This is your boundary and you have every right to enforce what makes you feel best.
Although I guess something to think about when we are feeling so angry is that they probably are sorry they hurt us and do really want things to be happy and smiling. Not sorry enough not to have done it, not sorry enough to make you actually smile for real. But it is highly likely that they are confused, conflicted and maybe even surprised/ashamed by their own actions and decisions.
But again, you (we) have the right to not have to go along with them pretending all is fine and that we are still best friends and always have their back. There are consequences to their actions.
Hope you have a good day!
Hugs, Lisa
I love the "I'm sorry I hurt you" these folks throw out; BF gave me that spiel, too. If they honestly didn't mean to hurt us and didn't want to hurt us, they could have thought about their actions before they did them! Truth is that they didn't CARE that what they were doing was going to hurt. Nimrods! *shaking my freakin' head*
In the one real conversation we had after BD, my H told me that he sincerely thought that I wouldn't care if he slept with someone else. Really?????? How far gone do you have to be to believe that your W doesn't care if you cheat? Boggles my mind.
Hi Ahoy. Sounds like cake eating to me Sorry for the anger / hurt this causes but you come accross really strong In your post Take care. Rd
Hi Ahoy,
I don't think you're right not to do anything that feels hypocritical or insincere right now. I will add two two things for you to think about. Remember the exchange we had about a civil divorce yesterday? For better or worse that will require somewhat civil relations with him. If you're sticking to email, fine - just make sure your tone is pleasant and upbeat while remaining businesslike. Also, your D is really mad at him right now, but I'm sure she still loves him. Someday, she might actually want to see chatty exchanges between the two of you - so just keep that in mind as a possibility.
Hope you are having an awesome Wednesday!
Whoops! Hadn't had my coffee yet this morning " I meant to say = I think your're right not to do anything that feels hypocritical" - not sure where that superfluous "don't came from"!
raliced, You are right, and I do aspire to have positive carefree interactions with him in the future, as that's in my daughter's best interest. I just can't do that right now as I need the time and space to heal -- and that's what I told him. I just need space for right now, not forever.
However, I have to say that I think his request is not really about our daughter's needs but more about his needs. He wants my attention. He wants me to be his buddy and not think ill of him. When he brought her to my house, he didn't come to the door -- I came to him to his car to give him the ticket to pay that he accrued in my name -- and though I didn't stick around, I didn't say anything nasty to him at all, just asked him to email me once he'd paid the ticket. Also, our daughter was inside and not around to see the exchange, so it's kind of irrelevant.
I want things to be good for my daughter, but I also recognize that H's request has very little to do with her needs at the moment. If he wanted what's best for our daughter he wouldn't have left the M for an OW and lied to both of us about it for so long. So now there are consequences, including my loss of desire to spend time around him, and that makes him sad. Do I care? No, I do not.
Just went to the gym with someone who has friends who work under my H. They apparently dislike him because he's such an awful boss. It's funny -- I'm learning a lot of things about my H's true personality and character that I didn't realize before (people never told me). He is really not the man I thought he was. How on earth did I not see the real him all these years? It's disheartening. I really don't trust my ability to read people anymore I guess...
So sorry that you are having to deal with all this. I can totally relate to H wanting everything to seem peachy keen between y'all. My H expects the same. He wants me to act like it is all normal so he can seem like the "good guy". I feel for you and continue to pray for peace for you and your D.
Ahoy,
You'll know when the time is right for friendlier communications, just wanted to plant the seed there.
They apparently dislike him because he's such an awful boss. It's funny -- I'm learning a lot of things about my H's true personality and character that I didn't realize before (people never told me). He is really not the man I thought he was. How on earth did I not see the real him all these years? It's disheartening. I really don't trust my ability to read people anymore I guess...
Oh boy, do I know this patch of real estate well. I've wondered if STBX was just trying to please me all these years by showing me his best face when in reality he was someone else. In my situation, I at least have the comfort of friends and family being shocked by his behavior as well, so I know its not just me and my potentially flawed judgement.
I do think that there is the possibility that who they are in this moment of crisis is not their core "personality and character", but a persona that they are trying on for size (my STBX suddenly started wearing cowboy boots and putting politically charged bumper stickers on his truck).
Its not you, or your judgement, Ahoy.
Hi ahoy. I have to agree with above comment My own W was a fantastic partner and mother and now she's distant and not even a good aunt. I do know if the WAS changes are for good but for their own sake and life's going forward. I hope not
All
I am going to be a little contrary here.
We do not know what is going on in the minds of our SO. If most of them don't know their own minds how are we supposed to know? Most of these SO are wayward and behaving dreadfully. But they are the mothers and fathers of our children, grandparents, work colleagues and for that alone we take the higher ground.
Some of them turn around quickly others go on their cheeseless tunnels for many years if not till the end.
The best we can do is DB and if we want a return to our M and at worst civility then we have to take that higher ground. I try to remember the good even if it is only that little tiny bit left in the big toe nail. We can't change them, we can only be the one in the Tango that alters the reaction. That makes the behaviour a little less repugnant to us. We can chose to detach.
If all you see now is the bad then you will keep finding more of it. Like buying a new red car and seeing that car everywhere, you will only ever the see the bad bad behaviour. But DB is about what works and I for one doubt if only seeing bad is going to help.
I love you guys but PMA! PMA!
Vanilla
Very positive. And something we could all do with being. Take care
I do only see the bad in him right now, but I think it's my brain's way of preparing myself for our dissolution. Just as he probably had to think of me in a negative light and blame shift in order to pick up and leave with another woman. For me, this is part of the process of separating and detaching. At the end of it will come the more peaceful detachment that means that I am ambivalent about his actions and life. I'm just in a natural stage of the process -- one that won't last forever, but one that is definitely helping me through and helping me take the necessary steps to move forward on my own, regardless.
I don't have anything negative or angry to say to him -- I keep it all professional, but it is brief and I am no longer putting on the sunshine and rainbows act, and this is what he's missing. DB counsels to do what works. Sunshine and rainbows wasn't getting any results. Going dark has gotten his attention, even though I don't want it now.
Ahoy
You don't know what H was thinking. He is not thinking at all, he's lost in some crazy world of his own, it can't last the crazy world, his hormonal system won't be that good.
if you are here DBing then this site is pro marriage, doing what works to reinstate your M. Or giving it your best shot.
You don't need to stay angry, if you feel angry that will show through, consistent actions remember, no matter how professional the interaction.. The body holds anger and resentment and it will leak in gesture and posture. Respectfully that will damage you not H. It will enable him to justify his actions to himself and rationalise his decisions. In the fight, flight or freeze reaction this is clearly fight, a detachment stance is neutral.
Detachment doesn't mean ambivalence or separation. It means letting go of the result, Sunshine and rainbows wasn't getting results but in detachment we are sunshine and rainbows for ourselves not to get results. Results follow when this is done for us. I can't find anywhere in sandi guidelines find the bad in SO.
Ahoy I read your advice and it is so wise and incisive, full of apt metaphors and descriptions. But I fear you are not being kind to yourself by losing the PMA which shines from your writing.
Be sunshine and rainbows because it works for you and your family, be sunshine and rainbows because it feels better to you. Sunshine and rainbows won't work if it's an act, it needs to be an action. You can act as if it is sunshine and rainbows on the way to feeling it for real.
Go dark because it gives you the peace you want not because it has an effect. Go dark because it gives you the space and time to grow. You say you don't want dark then don't do dark as it isn't the best for you. Do what you want to do irrespective of what H wants or you think he wants.
These are not alternatives! You can become sunshine and rainbows whilst also being dark to H. You can do it for you and for your family.
I am not sure I am explaining as well as I can.
A concerned
Vanilla
Vanilla, you're right -- I'm not pro-marriage if it means staying in an open marriage in which my husband is openly dating another person and my daughter knows about it. I think that's setting a pretty terrible example for my daughter. Thank you for reminding me why I probably shouldn't be on these boards.
Ahoy, I am close to my D being final. W was definate with me that she did not want to stay M. I could've waited longer to see what might happen. I didn't. There were others on the same timeline who stayed. Still others who are now ahead of me and D. it's a very personal choice how long to try. No one should fault you for either choice. The most consistent thing I have gotten over this past year was support and encouragement to become a better me. labug, 25, Melissa and so many others helped me not to crumble. They reminded me to respect my W wherever possible but to strive to be the best man and father I could be.
They also reminded me that I could not change W or wish her into being someone she is not. This has been a year of learning acceptance. I am seeing someone else now. In fact, W suggested I do just that shortly after I filed as long as I left the money where it was. That's when I knew there was nothing left to stand for in my case. I still feel regrets and pain over this lose. My GF has been very kind and loving. We each share experiences and lessons from our failed Ms. Without this chance to grow we would not have found out what we did about ourselves. David Schnarch (passionate marriage) describes marriage as a "people growing machine". I think he is right.
Sometimes we grow in ways that no longer work(in my case I overlooked things for years about my M and tried to make W someone she is not) with our current partner. At that point you may have to let go. In each of the success stories I read, letting go was part of the process regardless of the outcome.
Hold on to yourself and your dreams. Stay if you feel its healthyand you can. Let go if you need to.
My STBXW met my GF while we played with my kids in the yard. They shook hands and the next day when we spoke, my W wished me well. She said she prayed that after so much hurting for us and our kids, we'd both find peace. Its all we had left. Its something we can teach our kids. Today my kids see me with someone who holds my hand, dances with me in the kitchen while we make breakfast and never misses a chance to mlremind me she loves me. They were the first to point out they'd never seen their mom treat me that way. It makes them happy. Sorry for the long post. I hope itmakes sense.
Paul, Thank you for that. I really appreciate the balanced view that you provide, and also it is good to hear how you have moved on and kept things positive for your family. The kind of support you have provided me is really valuable. I'm glad to hear that you have found yourself in a better place, and I aspire to achieve that as well. The healing takes time, I know, but it's good to see that it's possible. Thank you again.
I am glad if it helped. The one thing I have found and want to say is...this thing leaves a scar. Stand, let go....reconcile,divorce...both leave scars. It took me this long to begin to really see, working on YOU and protecting YOU is the only positive part.
I never want to suffer like that again. Now I have some tools and growth so that I most likely won't. That is what I gained here.
Peace.
Ahoy, I think Paul covered it all!. Just want to selfishly say, I would miss you if you left the boards.
Thank you for reminding me why I probably shouldn't be on these boards.
Ahoy, honey, don't go there again.
You know we value you and want you around. Not every stage of this is sunshine and rainbows, and we just have to work through it all together.
Paul, I enjoyed your post. Neither my H nor I have ever mentioned the word "divorce", but I am pretty sure it's coming. I don't know who will file first. Your post gives me hope that even D will be OK.
Ahoy, Paul, I just want to add/agree that while we can all continue to stand and wait for things to turn around - sometimes they never do and sometimes it is not worth it. Sometimes you are just better off without the person that you married because they are not right for you!
I know this is a pro-marriage site and all that but sometimes you just have to do what is best for you. Sometimes that is getting rid of a bad person or relationship in your life. Only you can make that decision.
Ahoy, it sounds to me like you are just done. Maybe you could wait and turn this thing around and reunite with your H. In fact it sounds like it is quite possible. But to me it sounds like you don't really want that. And I think that is fine and that is your choice to make!
Big hugs, Lisa
Ahoy et al, choosing to move in one direction or another does not mean you need to leave this forum. I don't want to be D. its something I have to accept. If you get to the last chapter of DR and if you read Passionate Marriage (mwd draws on some of Schnarch's work in her writings) you will find that D is discussed. D is not defeat. Rushing to D or D with the exact same dynamics as the M( or worse) is.
A big concept outlined by both authors is called Differentiation. It referrs to holding onto to yourself or maintaining a sense of self while involved in a long term intimate relationship with another. We humans tend to do a bad job of this....hence the script from WAS. "I need to find myself...." If we look at it honestly, we each need to find ourselves too. Hence all the good advice from people like bug and 25 who have done the gut wrenching work of differentiating. Stay or go, that choice exists throughout the M.
Our WAS does not choose us today. They may never. They may regret the choice and never tell us. They might even remarry and repeat the same awful cycle if they don't do their work. We can't do anything about that.
For myself, I fought this fight (with and without these tools) for at least 10 years now. I am 47. My kids are almost grown. They had seen me living in a disrespectful M with a partner who openly disliked me. Dispite my changes to feel better and be more of the person I stopped being, W did not feel well enough to fight for a better life with me.
I wanted to show my kids what respect and love should look like. I was unwilling to wait and see if W might (and its a big might) think better of me and come home. She was unwilling or unable to show love to me and our children in ways that I could understand. Its early...but I have a chance of that now.
For the record I told my W the family we created is timeless and will never die. I have seen it with my GF and her XH. 6 years post D, they share a bond they cannot break. They are not healthy in the same space for extended periods, but she admitted to me that she appreciates him as a person more now than when they were M and we so enmeshed.
That's why I am committed to making whatever comes next be OK for all of us. W recently admitted to me that she sees this too.
Sandi...I left you out in the above, but I have read your posts and learned so much from them. Thank you also.
Thank you all for chiming in -- I guess my comment about maybe not being on the boards is more due to the fact that at times people respond to the fact that I've accepted D as a fact that is fast approaching as me being not pro-marriage. And they are right that this is a pro-marriage site. I guess I keep coming back for the support because this is a difficult time -- coming to a place of acceptance with what is happening and what is likely to happen. And also because I know so many of you are also where I am and feeling these things.
Paul -- can I ask, why is your D process as long as it is? I just had coffee with a friend, and hers took only 4 months. I'm just trying to get an idea of the time frame for the process.
Hi Ahoy As I have said before What ever you decide I and most on here will support you. I see a subtle change in your posts since you first spoke about the "end ".
My life coach tells me that I will go through different stages , sad , glad, etc. I have read on this site that at least a month must pass before any decision is made
In my humble opinion you are a strong intelligent woman but even someone like you needs time to adjust and let your feelings settle I have no doubt you are confident in your choices but would giving it time make your life worse ?
I feel for you and your daughter because I believe we all feel you pain with both your feelings and your Ds.
Keep strong and I am 100% confident you will be happy again If that's without your H then his loss.
I wish I could post some words to help and make this journey easier but I have none. Please know that from your posts on here you have made a differance to me and I am sure many others on and you would be sorely missed
If you go dark on us then we will pursue !!!!!!!!! Lol. Take care RD
I waited a few months to file. Then she waited a few months to respond. Then it took time to gather the info for what we own and what we owe
The site is about saving your M. but there is a topic about surviving D in here too
Vanilla, you're right -- I'm not pro-marriage if it means staying in an open marriage in which my husband is openly dating another person and my daughter knows about it. I think that's setting a pretty terrible example for my daughter. Thank you for reminding me why I probably shouldn't be on these boards.
I am reminding you why you need to be on these boards.
You are clearly pro marriage! And like DB not pro open marriage.
In order to get to a closed marriage, open marriage may have to be accepted but you don't have to like it, go along with it, or accept it in your life. Just keep on doing core DB if you want results with or without H.
I would like to be clearer so I hope a vet will chip in.
Vanilla
Ahoy, I've been quiet lately because I've been working, but I want you to stay on the boards. Selfishly. Also unselfishly, because it is important to be able to say the things we think aren't allowed or acceptable to the people we have to face in real life. This is a good space for that.
I think I mentioned a week or two ago that there had been people on the boards when I first joined who came to the decision that divorce was the right thing for their lives and that they were really happy. You could tell in their voices that they were happy with the decision. You don't sound like that. So please, at least stick around till you can get in that place.
I think there are a couple of reasons why people keep urging you to stand for your marriage:
1) You don't sound done and when you try to sound done it sounds more like defensive posturing than truly done. You are rightfully very angry.
2) We are all a little hung up on our own wishes and we want as many people here to share them as possible because so few people in our daily lives do. So we're projecting on you.
Where you are right now is that you don't want the marriage, which is fine. But I think it's tangled in your anger and hurt, especially given what you've told us about your interactions with your H a year ago when you were both going through the depths of your various health issues. And the fact that yours are ongoing and he's behaving in this callous manner.
I for one will absolutely respect your attitude toward dissolution for as long as it stays this way. I won't assume a change in it till you specifically say you've changed. (I can't speak for anyone else, and those who jump in here and there will probably keep bumbling in that way, so please be patient...) But it would be really, really helpful to yourself if you could work towards getting in the place where you sound cheerful and enthusiastic about dissolution. I know that sounds like a tall order... But if you're going to embrace it, embrace it in hope and excitement rather than anger.
What do you think???
What Maybell said ^^^^^^^^^
please move to PMA whether D or R
Vanilla
I actually feel very good about the possibility of dissolution, now that I've accepted it as a reality. In the past week, I've been able to visualize a life going forward on my own without fear, and it feels really good. It feels better than the possible years of dealing with an H in MLC and the consequences of infidelity, actually. Maybe I'm quick to throw in the towel. It's been six months since BD, but his affair has likely been going on much longer, and this is his choice to leave me and have a girlfriend. He has not wavered in his decision at all.
I'm getting closer to a place of peace in accepting his decision and even feeling like this might end up being the best thing for both of us in the long run. Whatever happens will happen, but in my heart I have started to move on, and it feels better. I was angry initially after H told D14 about his girlfriend, because it brought up a lot of issues, but now that I've had a week to let that go, and have told my H that I need space, I'm started to focus on my own needs and desires for the future. I don't want to stay sad and angry -- those are very unproductive emotions. Of course, I'll have flashes of them from time to time, but my goal is to move through that to a place of peaceful acceptance.
As always I wish you the best. Take care. Rd
Ahoy,
You actually sound quite healthy. Good for you.
You are on the right track. Keep up the good work.
I will admit that it is easier to have a wayward spouse dark (no contact, not in your face) than it is constantly have to deal with someone who won't X, Y and Z, especially when you want to work to save an R.
I chafe without BF in my life, even through text messages, but I find my PMA is higher when things are silent. I still think about him every moment of every day (working on it), but now there's nothing to react to.
Do what you need to do for you. There are no wrong answers.
So just found out through mother of D14's friend that D14 was sick yesterday, but H told her to "calm down" and go to school anyway. Then H later called the office and said he would pick her up. I suspect he had some work things to do, and so made her go to school sick so he could get them done, then picked her up. Makes my blood boil. D14 is home sick today as well. I so wish I could be with her. She cried when she had to go to H's place this weekend for the trade-off. It feels good knowing that I can be free of him, but for her it is much harder. He will always be in her life, he will always be her father. I hope they can grow a healthy relationship in spite of the issues he's caused, but that is entirely up to them. I just have to be careful to not be negative about him in front of her, which is difficult at times. But I'm doing okay with it.
I think H just got a dog. Why does this annoy me. He left me with three cats, and he could have taken on some of that responsibility, but instead he gets a dog? And he travels a lot, so how does he plan to accommodate the dog? More and more I am convinced he is just crazy. Also, this is yet another sign for me that he is really done -- he couldn't move back in with the dog with our current pet situation. I've known this all along, deep down, and I am also done with him at this point, so I guess it's irrelevant, but it's just another indicator. So weird to have him become this total stranger overnight. What's wrong with these people?
Also, this is yet another sign for me that he is really done -- he couldn't move back in with the dog with our current pet situation. I've known this all along, deep down, and I am also done with him at this point, so I guess it's irrelevant, but it's just another indicator. So weird to have him become this total stranger overnight. What's wrong with these people?
Well, FWIW, I think he has
thought he was "really done" since BD. I think the vast majority of WASs do - you don't take a sudden drastic step like that without being pretty committed. The question in these situations is more if they stay in that place.
I think this is something impulsive and "impulsive" describes a lot of decisions that he has made lately, right?
I do get why its an annoyance though - this sort of uncharacteristic behavior that slmost seems like they are flipping us off. In my case STBX put a bunch of politically charged bumper stickers on his truck post-BD. Now, granted, I don't particularly agree with those particular political positions, but I wouldn't have cared if he had put them on previously. Now though, it almost feels like he is saying "Finally! I'm free to really express myself"! Which of course, is total malarkey.
Its just a dog. And frankly, I feel pretty sorry for the dog, given what you've described about his work commitments. Hopefully he doesn't decide to end the relationship with the dog as impulsively.
BTW, any chance this was done to curry favor with D14?
Yes, he totally did this to curry favor with D14, because she cries about missing the cats. I have THREE cats -- I would have been happy to share some with him. In fact, it's going to be quite difficult to find a place to rent with three cats when the time comes. But he is shrugging off all commitments. He just wants to "live his authentic life" -- which includes a new younger girlfriend, a beard, a dog, travel, karaoke nights, etc. All of these things, with the exception of the girlfriend, he could have done and still maintained our family, but I guess he fell out of love with me when he fell in love with this other person, so it was worth it to him to destroy the family. Met with L yesterday to get the dissolution process started -- I know I'm not supposed to initiate, but I need to be back in my home state where I have a job with benefits and family support by this summer. So now I have to try to get his financial information from him in a timely way and have a difficult discussion with him about coming up with a long-distance parenting schedule.
Huh, my H used the word authentic also. Not at all an in-character word for him, either.
As Inigo Montoya said, "You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Did I miss something? Does your D have an opinion about the parenting schedule?
But he is shrugging off all commitments. He just wants to "live his authentic life" -- which includes a new younger girlfriend, a beard, a dog, travel, karaoke nights, etc. All of these things, with the exception of the girlfriend, he could have done and still maintained our family, but I guess he fell out of love with me when he fell in love with this other person, so it was worth it to him to destroy the family.
I know you know this already Ahoy, but I'm just going to say it anyway. You know this isn't about him falling out of love with you, right? This is about him being unhappy with who he is as a person. And instead of dealing with what his own issues are, he's looking ot all the external things he can change to make him "happy". Again, this is just my amateur opinion, but I don't believe when they are in this state they are capable of real love, which after all, is not a selfish emotion - passion and lust, yes, but not love.
Hang in there, Ahoy. I am keeping you in my positive thoughts and prayers. I wish had some advice, but I am sure the vets can say it much better.