Hi everyone, I am new here and having major issues with my marriage that i need advice on.
Quick background, my wife and I have been married for 14 years going on 15, we have 3 kids together, first child was born after we had been married for 3 years so we had some "alone" time prior to having kids. I am extremely happy with my life and love my family with everything I have. We get along great, talk and have fun, nothing wrong with our sexlife, we have it nearly every day at the least every other day
My wife is an amazing person, she is very independent and that was one of the things that really attracted me to her when we met, she is very well spoken, doesn't cuss or use slang, has a lot of respect for herself and others, always helps other people with anything they need, puts her own needs on the back burner just to help with anything she can, and she is extremely social. Anyone she comes in contact with would consider her a very good listener and talker, she's just all around an amazing person.
When our first one was born, we decided that she would stay with the baby and quit her job, she has been "at home" for the past 11 years now, and hasn't really had work outside of the home which I am totally OK with, but now I know that she wasn't really OK with it.
Throughout the years she has felt that everything has always been on my time, purchasing a home, purchasing furniture or improvements to the home. She feels that because she doesn't work, she has to ask for permission like a child, which has hurt her feelings for me.
I have always been very conservative and don't like to spend money, and always tell her " let's wait" or " now is not a good time"
Years of doing that has caused resentment in her heart towards me, and she feels that her dreams are never met, she feels that we can never sit down and talk about things together, make decisions as adults, her own words ( i always felt like in the back of the bus). She told me she didn't want to be the pilot, but she wants to be the co-pilot.
5 months ago she dropped the bomb on me. She told me that she wants to leave, she can no longer go on like this, she loves me but she is not in love with me anymore.
She said that years of resentment has caused her to lose feelings for me little by little, and she no longer can breath she feels so lonely, feels like a single married mother, lonely in everything with no support from me mentally.
Meantime through out all of this i thought everything was just going perfect, the best way to describe me is to watch Michelle's youtube video regarding a walk away wife. That would be me, the light bulb went of when she said she was DONE, and i made profound changes and want her back but getting a lot of restriction and hitting the wall.
Anyway, she has never said that shes done in the 15 years that we have known each other, this is not something that she does once every few months, so needless to say im extremely lost.
I got down on my knees, cried, begged, did everything you are not supposed to do ( after reading this site i know what not to do ) I begged her to give us another chance, to allow me to show her what she really means to me not just by words, but by my actions.
She said she needs some time to find herself, to come to a conclusion because she feels that she is not worth anything, she considers herself a complete looser with nothing to show for, she has just been a supporter for other people in life and now she has lost the will for anything other than our kids.
So I stayed with a family member just to give her the time and space she requested, but i didnt do very well because i kept contacting her, seeing her, begging a couple times a week etc...all that did was to push her away from me more and make me look extremely needy.
During the time that i was gone i checked her cell phone, spied on her and honestly i have never in 15 years had a reason to do so, i have never seen any signs of her being a cheater, and i have been 100% faithful to her with no affairs physically or emotionally.
My wife is an amazing person with very high integrity, very close with her siblings and parents, none of which would ever in a million years think that she would have an affair, so i dont think she has ever had one but as lost as i am, i was just trying to dig for anything to find and "fix"
Anyway, i admitted to checking her phone and this opened up another can of worms, now her integrity & privacy was being questioned, she felt extremely hurt and couldn't believe i would do that. This caused her to lose trust for me because i told her i wouldn't do it again but did it 2 additional times, in which she just got angrier than ever ( i didnt find anything that would cause any doubt of another man while i was snooping )
Anyway, she is to the point of wanting a divorce, she does not want to continue on living in a life that she feels oppressed in, feel like she has no say and feel unloved.
The unfortunately thing is, i show her so much love, physically and mentally, truly put her up on a pedas tool but not in the way she needed, just by working and providing everything doesn't make a good husband, there are tons of other things needed to fulfill her heart.
I have learned alot from this website, and bought Divorce Remedy today and will start reading it tonight.
As of right now, its been 5 months, i see her a couple times a week because i spend time with the kids, i told her i have hope and really hoping she will reconsider this, nothing has been filed yet.
I want my wife back so bad, she means everything to me, we get along very good other than this major issue that i have been blind to for the past several years. What can i do to continue on a track that can possibly win hear heart back? I dont expect her to throw her arms around me right away, i just want a chance to get a foot in so i can show her what she means to me.
I am completely lost, I think of her every day, I am so regretful for having my nose in work 6 days a week and did not "see" her needs.
I can't stay away, I want to see her all the time and talk, but every time I do I keep pushing her away, WHAT CAN I DO??? I am so confused, hurt and periodically feel anger that quickly turns to sadness.
I am very hopeful, i am very much in love with her and want to do anything possible to turn this around.
Thank you very much for reading and if you have any advice please share it with me, i will periodically update this thread and will answer any questions as soon as i get a minute, im on this forum at least 4 or 5 times per day
Hi,
I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Feelings of mistrust and suspicion are not healthy in your marriage. I suggest you do some immediate damage control. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Well, the good news is that nothing that you are saying is "new" here. In fact, in many respects you have a lot in common with me when I first arrived here nearly 3 years ago to the day.
It is entirely possible to live a good live with your spouse with the best of intentions and just "fall asleep" for years on end. It would appear that you did...I did too. You were neither abusive nor unfaithful...so how does this happen? There are, I found, a lot of reasons. Specifically, you loved your wife in a way that you thought was best (work hard, provide, sex life, etc.) - and it kind of railroads over what she wants/needs. I tell my XW now all the time that in our marriage I set the criteria for what made a good husband and then I judged myself against that criteria...and wouldn't you know I was scoring 10 out of 10 every time?? Where I blew it was SHE was the one that needed to set the criteria based on her needs. Without that, over the long haul I think her needs go unmet, she loses her voice and sense of value. All the while, you are chugging along thinking you are the ideal spouse in the ideal marriage.
The good news, friend, is that she gave you data....she gave you information on why she why she was leaving and why she was unhappy. That is gold. Ignore it at your own peril. Use it as a basis for change...and true change takes time. Change that she can trust takes even MORE time - so there is no quick fix here. Bring a dose of patience, because it is quite possible that you will be here for a minute or two. It has taken you years to get here - so get out is not going to go fast. They good news? You CAN get out - you are not without hope.
So what do you think you can do differently? How will you start? How can you stay out of your head and stop over-contacting your wife (hint: you are pushing her away...you gotta knock it off).
You seem to be on the right track - but you need to stop your head from spinning. Go out, GAL (it's in the books) and read Sandi's rules on the front page. Read them often!
Dig in, be strong, and know that growth and change are forged in the flames of suffering and pain....and it is quite possible you have not seen the worst of it yet.
Hang in there....there is hope.
Crimson
PS....do yourself a favor and listen to the veterans on the boards. The MOST helpful people you will find outside of individual counselors...no questions. They will push a challenge you...but always in pursuit of a good end.
Sorry that you find yourself on here. You won't find a better group of individuals who will try to get your M back on track.
First things first. Have you read the DB and DR books?
"When our first one was born, we decided that she would stay with the baby and quit her job, she has been "at home" for the past 11 years now, and hasn't really had work outside of the home which I am totally OK with, but now I know that she wasn't really OK with it."
That's a bit simplistic. This isn't about THAT decision. It's about the consequences. Did you help out? Did you talk to her and ask her how her day was or try to help her when you got home?
"Throughout the years she has felt that everything has always been on my time, purchasing a home, purchasing furniture or improvements to the home."
Is this true? Did you not listen to her when she wanted something and you didn't?
"She feels that because she doesn't work, she has to ask for permission like a child, which has hurt her feelings for me. "
Is this true? How did you talk to her? Did you talk her out of things rather than compromise?
"I have always been very conservative and don't like to spend money, and always tell her " let's wait" or " now is not a good time"
But your are in a relationship WITH her. You can't make all the decisions on how she wants to live.
Y"ears of doing that has caused resentment in her heart towards me, and she feels that her dreams are never met, she feels that we can never sit down and talk about things together, make decisions as adults, her own words ( i always felt like in the back of the bus). She told me she didn't want to be the pilot, but she wants to be the co-pilot."
Big sign here.
"Meantime through out all of this i thought everything was just going perfect,"
Sure because you got whatever you wanted.
"and i made profound changes and want her back but getting a lot of restriction and hitting the wall. "
And what exactly were those changes?
You are at the right place ... and honestly .. don't take this the wrong way .. as dire as your story is .. read here a bit .. there are those in a worse sitch.
^^^^ Totall agree with Crimson ... listen to the vets, LISTEN and DO ... if they tell you stop texting and calling .. do it man. DO not smother her ... everything at first will feel like you are doing the opposite of what you feel ... DO IT
The trifecta ... you might as well get used to these three things ... GAL, PMA, 180 ... start there along with reading the Sandi-37 and hold to it. the more you stuggle the quicker you will sink in the quicksand you have found yourself in.
Crimson, mrbond, caliguy thank you for the advice.
Crimson, I am currently on page 50 of Divorce Remedy. I have also bookmarket sandi-37 rules and have been reading them atleast twice per day and implementing them.
Mrbond, I have not been good at all, as far as the decision, it's always been on my time. Although we have always got everything she wanted, it was always in my time and when we had arguments I said "look around, we have always got everything you wanted"
She says "but look at how low I have to get before we get it, instead of coming to a common agreement like 2 normal adults"
I did not help around the house much at all.
If I could go back in time and spend 10 minutes with myself, I would slap myself silly for 9 minutes and for the remaining minute tell myself to get my head out of my rearend.
The pain of having my wife slip through my hands is a pain that I have never felt before.
I moved back home a month ago and staid for 30 days, I did nearly everything in the house. She told me I'm a different person and she has to now get to know me again. She did tell me that every time I would do laundry she felt like she wanted to puke, and she thought "why couldn't you that 5 years ago???"
The tension was just too high so I moved out again because her decision on getting a divorce was fuled by the tension. I have left her alone for a couple weeks with no contact other than very short texts about the kids. I figured that I'm going to take this time and work on myself, read Divorce Remedy, implement the guidance in the book, implement sandi-37, council with this forum, give her time to calm down and hope she makes a decition while she's not as angry as she was when I was home.
I am and have always been an optimist, A lot of people close to me are telling me "she's done, move on". Others are telling me that no man they know would take the blame as much as I have, and wait around for so long with no answer.
Truth is, Im not looking for praise, I Want my wife back and I know that I can be the person she fell in love with. I am determined to stay the course (won't be an easy one) because I want to grow old with her, cherish her and make her feel loved and supported. This woman is one in a billion, I am not about to lay down and say "ok" to the divorce.
Again thank you for the advice so far, I'm here to learn and I am determined to become a better man for my wife.
Your situation sounds like mine. Same thing, I was totally clueless. Anyway, it's rough riding, but this place is a godsend. Biggest area I struggled with is detaching. I was so scared that my feelings for her would diminish if I emotionally detached, but they don't. However, now that I have; it's like I can finally think clearly about how to react and not overreact in situations. Like they said do work on PMA, GAL and 180s.
You're probably like me and a lot of the advice here is contrary to what you are used to doing. That's the point and why this board is so great. It helps me understand what to do and not to do. Each situation is different, but the folks on here have seen so much and can be objective when our minds/emotions prevent us from thinking that way.
MCS, thanks for the reply. You are right, a lot of things that i feel like doing and saying are totally the wrong way of doing things. I am on page 100 now in Divorce Remedy, and one of the things i just read was to do the complete opposite of what i normally do.
This is in terms of how i handle conflict, "nagging", her objections etc....I use to just get to the point and try to "fix" the issue the way that seemed logical to me, but it was not logical to her. I am implementing that habit today and will stick to it, I wont try to "fix" conflict like i have in the past, i will listen to her, speak with her like adults do and come to a agreement that she feels good with. Rather than her walking away thinking that it was all her fault.
The only problem is, im not currently at home so the times i see her are very limited, but the book writes about my current situation and how to make the most out of the time that i see her. I will keep everyone posted, and if there are any people on this board that have gone through what i am, and have had success and staid together with their wife, please show me a link so i can read about it.
A little motivation never hurts
And as always, any advice/encouragement/guidance is VERY WELCOMED!
Thanks again.
Went to see the kids for a little bit after work yesterday, saw my wife. She was pretty cold, not much talking, just things relating to the kids. She saw my wedding band ( she took hers of ) and asked if it was from my girlfriend. She knows I don't have a girlfriend, she was referinf to the ring NOT being from her.
I didn't say anything, and I know that she probably felt bad later about the comment she made, she is taking a jab because she feels so hurt right now. I didn't say anything in return, I want her to get her anger out without me going to war and making the matter worse. I felt pretty crappy when she said that, but it's a new day today and I'm on page 120 of Divorce Remedy.
Not exactly sure how to handle my wife, don't want to make contact with her because she is angry, and don't want to completely leave her alone although that would probably be the best thing. I just don't want her to file for divorce and get deeper in to this mess.....talk about an emotional roller coaster ride for the past 5 months!
Well it's been 2 weeks since I last talked with her, read the book and I'm just staying away, acting "as if" when I see her and just waiting on her to say something. She hasn't filed yet, said she was but that was a month ago. What in the world is going through her head? I'm totally confused and lost.
Love14, listen to the vets on this forum. I am In a very similar situation with my W. SHe has an EA going on with an OM who fortunately does not live here. She's basically questioning everything about our marriage, says she no longer feels attraction or connection to me, and is basically wondering if her place in life is with me or not. Fortunately she lives with me still. I invite you to check out my thread.
You need to let go of the idea that you can directly control your wife's thoughts, actions or choices. You can only influence her decisions by working on you. Make yourself the best man you know how to be, but don't look around to see if she notices. She's watching you, even when you don't think she is. The changes you make must be for you, or she will see them as shallow and manipulative. Concentrate on being a strong, positive , masculine presence with her. She will notice, but will sure as hell not praise you for it.
This will take a very long time. You will dig up new reserves of patience as you move through this. Remember that she is lost, hurt and scared as well. She will be cruel and cold to you at times. Plan on it. Don't hang on everything she says or does, good or bad. It will drive you crazy..
This forum has been an absolute godsend to me. Keep posting! It's the best therapy I've had so far.
It's so much easier said that done, but I totally agree. I'm staying away and acting "as if". Showing her I'm happy and standing tall etc...I dont believe there is another man, or a emotional affair, I sure hope not but after all the snooping I have done there hasn't been 1 positive lead, which in very glad about.
But jeez this is hard, staying with a family member and keep thinking about Her every single day, I do believe she has started to see a councilor, which I think is a great thing, it's the first sign of a positive move she has done in the last few months. Hopefully it goes good as she can let go of some of the past resentment and hurt. Time will tell...
Hello love14. I'm so sorry you are here. I only have one piece of advice... it helps to prepare yourself for an OM to appear sooner or later. It could break you if you're not ready. You're first thought with your positive snooping result will be to think the best of your W and not even conceive that she would go somewhere else to get her needs met. She's acting cold in part because she doesn't want to hurt you... doesn't want to give you any false hope. She will lie to you and hide an OM for the same reason and rationalize her actions as protecting you (poor baby in her mind) from her actions. In my case, I felt my W's contact was a long distance EA which was hard to deal with but bearable. When my snooping showed that they were in fact meeting and she had further lied to me after I confronted her... the happiness in her emails to OM tore me to shreds. I nearly derailed the whole thing right there. I'm still fighting to recover. It is terrible... just be prepared. You cannot show that pain to your W if an OM appears. She will feel pity for you which will diminish you in her eyes. Let's stay strong.
Time will tell is the phrase I use all the time. She will settle down eventually, either for or against the marriage. This has been hands-down the hardest experience of my life. The detaching is vital. You cannot ride her roller coaster with her, so don't try. She needs to see you as a rock. Loving but strong.
The detaching is really for you to retain your sanity as you move through this.
HPoirot, I would be crushed if there was another man. I don't even want to think of it let alone prepare myself. The thought has come to mind but when it does, my heart races and I get sick to my stomach. I checked text messages, social media, tracking etc...nothing yielded even the slightest form of affair, and believe me I'm suspicious (especially now being in the situation I am). But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.
It's just so extremely hard not knowing what she is going to do, file or not file for divorce? She asked for time, I didn't do good by giving her enough time and kept pushing and pushing, finally I stopped pursuing her. I'm hoping and praying she continues to see the counceler and hoping for a phone call or text from her, just anything to try and move forward with her. It's such an emotional roller coaster ride it has affected everything in my life. I need to start doing things by myself and being happy no matter what happens! I'm mad one day, sad the other day, and neutral the 3rd day, then it goes back around just like a circle.
But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.
That, right there, is your kryptonite love14. I'm telling you... if she is talking divorce yours will not be a short, painless process. She will be tempted to test other options. That is the point of all of this and she won't wait. B/c you wholeheartedly believe she is a wonderful person, you would have never thought she would treat you the way she treats you now, right? My W has never said divorce and I've been through the worst pain of my life ever. You must prepare for the worst and have a plan of how you will act if it happens. Stop hoping and praying and act to improve and strengthen yourself. She will only consider you if all she see's is your strength from now on no matter what she does. She's not thinking of your best interests now. I'm serious. Good luck.
5 months ago she dropped the bomb on me. She told me that she wants to leave, she can no longer go on like this, she loves me but she is not in love with me anymore.
Most typically when a woman says she loves you but she's not in love with you it's because she has a point of comparison.... she's "in love" with someone else.
Since she came to you first she likely covered her tracks and took the affair far underground especially if the OM is married and especially while she sorts things out with you. You finding out will/could ruin EVERYTHING and make the eventual divorce HER fault versus YOUR fault (because in her mind...her seeking attention and having the affair in the first place is YOUR fault).
I know detaching doesn't include spying but it my situation I absolutely needed to know the facts before I could address any problems. In other words, if there is a fox in your henhouse what good is it doing a self inventory to determine why your chickens aren't laying eggs??? Discover the fox and then address that problem first.
Her upsettedness about not trusting her is a tip off. Those with nothing to hide don't tend to hide anything. If she were truly behaving on the up and up she'd welcome the opportunity to show you that your fears of her cheating were unfounded and it truly is a marital issue of neglect versus being offended.
Her need for a separation is another tip off. Space is the wayward code word for I don't like you interfering with my affair or I'm scared you are going to catch me and with you out of the house I can focus more attention on my affair partner.
Sorry. It's just the most likely scenario in my opinion.
Have you really heard her? Stop focusing on getting her back and start thinking about what she told you.
She has told you the problem right here. But have you really heard her?
Years of doing that has caused resentment in her heart towards me, and she feels that her dreams are never met, she feels that we can never sit down and talk about things together, make decisions as adults, her own words ( i always felt like in the back of the bus). She told me she didn't want to be the pilot, but she wants to be the co-pilot.
You really need to "get this"!
HPoirot, I would be crushed if there was another man. I don't even want to think of it let alone prepare myself. The thought has come to mind but when it does, my heart races and I get sick to my stomach. I checked text messages, social media, tracking etc...nothing yielded even the slightest form of affair, and believe me I'm suspicious (especially now being in the situation I am). But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.
Have you read the DB or Div Remedy book(s)? They advise AGAINST SNOOPING and for many good reasons. So stop making yourself nuts and realize that the more you spend your energy and time wondering what she's up to (and snooping which shows so much fear on your end),
and work on yourself. What are your 180s? Do you know what I'm talking about? You will when you read the books. You MUST read them cover to cover. They form the basis of the underlying philosophy here and you cannot skim them or "skip to the good EASY part"....this is the first part of the "Work" you must do to save your marriage.
you say you love her. Have you read the books? Please do so. And CHOOSE an approach, whether it is Div Busting or some other one, and then stick to it for long enough to monitor for results. If you combine approaches that actually conflict, you are doing a disservice to both approaches, and yourself b/c you will LESSEN the chances of success by hedging your bets and not really committing to any one approach.
And that might be a pattern for your life as well....
It's just so extremely hard not knowing what she is going to do, file or not file for divorce?
We know. The biggest regret I have is that I spent a year of my life wondering about someone I had zero control over INSTEAD of creating a better more fulfilling life for MYSELF and my kids.
The sooner you do that, the sooner things will evolve well. Stop obsessing about HER and start working on You.
She asked for time, I didn't do good by giving her enough time and kept pushing and pushing, finally I stopped pursuing her.
Obsessing and snooping is NOT giving her space or time. You MUST stop that and begin to work on yourself while you have the gift of time.
Please hear us!
I'm hoping and praying she continues to see the counceler and hoping for a phone call or text from her, just anything to try and move forward with her.
Are You seeing a counselor? How is THAT going?
Again, when you begin to obsess about HER, get a mirror out and look at the only person you can change or control or affect...YOU.
Seriously, you need to get this asap.
It's such an emotional roller coaster ride it has affected everything in my life.
How do you think you can get OFF the roller coaster? How can you stop it from affecting everything in your life?
By working on yourself so you know you are Doing SOMETHING, AND, by Getting A Life (aka "GAL").
You must GAL to Detach and you must detach to get healthy enough to work on yourself. So if and when she looks your way, she loves what/who she sees.
What were you like when you were first married? What were you like when she fell in love with you? What would SHE SAY are the issues for her in the marriage?
And what, of those, do you think have some validity and are worth working on in you?
Become a man only a fool would leave. What does that look like to you?
I need to start doing things by myself and being happy no matter what happens!
Bingo! Instead of saying you "need to start", just do it. Today. What can you sign up for this week? Want to volunteer for the Thanksgiving dinner at the shelter? (I'm just spitballing but it sure beats being alone.)
By working on yourself and becoming the best man you can become, you insure a better life for yourself, no matter what she does.
That's VERY worthwhile. Also, remember this:
NO Walk Away Spouse returns to a marriage they left
....Unless-
they believe the marriage can be better/different than before.
It's your job to show her that^^^ --not with words or promises, but w/actions.
So, how are YOU demonstrating that?
I'm mad one day, sad the other day, and neutral the 3rd day, then it goes back around just like a circle.
I understand. Been there, done that. But You really can get OFF the roller coaster and change the circle into a line of growth for you. (Only YOU can get yourself off the roller coaster.)
If you make your happiness dependent on her, (which is unfair and unhealthy)
you might begin to see the co-dependency that is NOT healthy for a marriage. Change that dynamic.
No more spiralling downward, but get the "graph" to go UPWARDS and onward...as you want.
Good luck, keep posting.
Hello love14. I'm so sorry you are here. I only have one piece of advice... it helps to prepare yourself for an OM to appear sooner or later. It could break you if you're not ready.
Sorry but I so strongly disagree strongly with this^^. (And so does the DB philosophy, btw). Since it may not even be true, how on earth would this help him? He'd be borrowing trouble that may not exist and might even serve to push her into the arms of OM. Sometimes we behave and operate in fear and we bring about the very things we most fear.
Like when a jealous possessive boyfriend of mine, whom I really cared for, constantly accused me of cheating "or wanting to" (How do I defend against that? What can I "prove"??). Eventually I began to think he was really needy and paranoid and yes, other men began to look a lot safer and more fun than he was. So I broke up with him b/c I wanted to go out with someone else!
I am fairly certain that I'd have stuck it out with my first bf (well, for junior year anyhow) if he'd just backed off and showed some self confidence in himself (attractive!!) and trust for me (a welcome feeling). He really did, in effect, shove me into the arms of OM/new boyfriend. Probably a year before nature would have parted us anyhow.
Also the distrust this reflects can often be a projection of OUR OWN beliefs b/c we know WE wanted to cheat or we did and so we assume or project onto others our own foibles AND OR,
this also involves a ton of mind reading (negatively programmed to boot!). Mind reading, especially negatively, is a bad idea and goes against DBing and isn't reflecting a healthy belief system. IT's believing the worst about someone whom you have vowed to cherish...
til your trust is proved to be misplaced, why undermine it anymore than you already have? So far what has your snooping accomplished? You have found nothing and no evidence of an A and yet you still hunt for it!
DING DING!! ALARMS BLARING!!!!
What's that tell you? If my h snooped on me NOW, or had in the past, I probably would assume he had cheated or wanted to. (Why else would he be so suspicious of ME?)
As for the comments below, I'm going to cross thru the mind reading and the negative projections so we can better assess what you need to focus on...
You're first thought with your positive snooping result will be to think the best of your W and not even conceive that she would go somewhere else to get her needs met. She's acting cold in part because she doesn't want to hurt you... doesn't want to give you any false hope. She will lie to you and hide an OM for the same reason and rationalize her actions as protecting you (poor baby in her mind) from her actions. In my case, I felt my W's contact was a long distance EA which was hard to deal with but bearable. When my snooping showed that they were in fact meeting and she had further lied to me after I confronted her... the happiness in her emails to OM tore me to shreds. I nearly derailed the whole thing right there. I'm still fighting to recover. It is terrible.
HP,
Given all this^^, and your situation, it's odd for you to give him advice that was so destructive in your own marriage.
But come to think of it, do you think the fact that you had an A earlier on in the marriage, was possibly a reason you were so suspicious of HER having one? However it is also against DB's approach and for good reason.
.. just be prepared. You cannot show that pain to your W if an OM appears. She will feel pity for you which will diminish you in her eyes. Let's stay strong.
Wow, those^^ are more reasons NOT to spy..."Staying/looking strong" is a reason NOT to snoop, In my opinion.
In fact, for ME, there is only one valid reason to snoop.
--If you knew in your heart of hearts that no matter how badly you treated your wife or neglected her, no matter what your own role in any possible affair had been,
if you KNEW w/100% certainty that you'd end the marriage b/c you could not get past an affair on her end - regardless of any circumstances, influences, etc....
then I say if things are weird between you two, go ahead and snoop and if you find something, file for divorce. That's the end of that.
But IF you do NOT know that it would be an absolute for sure deal breaker, then why on God's green earth would you keep snooping? What GOOD does it do you?
Hey, others are free to have their own opinions of course. But I believe there are sound reasons that MWD opposes it, and so do I. It definitely turns most spouses off and if I were innocent of cheating and my h spied on me and snooped, that could well end the marriage.
It's just too paranoid and distrusting and it would make me think HE had cheated or wanted to & was projecting that onto me.
Anyhow, please keep posting. This site is a Godsend, as are the DB coaches. Can you hire one? I hired one and ended up having 15 (fifteen) or more sessions with her. Thank GOD!
Yes yes, DB coaching sessions can be pricey. (The packages save you some $$)
BUT DB coaching sessions 1) are Not more expensive than the MC we had, since he and several others were not a covered benefit for us anyway,
AND
2) it's cheaper than divorce.
IN conclusion, yes There is hope.
You can help yourself most by working on yourself. Regardless of what she plans/feels or is doing (and believe me, that will change often so don't bank on yesterdays' comments being true tomorrow...)
you'll be better off by changing the parts of yourself that most need changing. AND that means no matter what her plans are, your course of action is the same.
Become a man only a fool would leave. And learn to turn your pain/anger over to God, so you can walk in peace and get some sleep. Stay the course, don't veer off your path...
Make sense?
GAL is key to Detachment, & Detachment is KEY to becoming your best self AND it's key to backing off and giving her the space and time she has requested.
So work on yourself and GAL.
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. I had 3 kids, including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you are 'too busy' to GAL).
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life.
IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w. Plus, you'll bring more to the table as a mate...
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team for two summers (my older D was on it. Bonding!)
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, ( our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater, & got cast often. I met some fun creative people.
I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well. Yay me.
I learned to cross country ski & I got better at downhill skiing.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, and became an expert marksman with a rifle.
I learned to use/ride a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it!
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license. (Bucket list item)
Went skydiving. (Also bucket list item) Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. I found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.
I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the darkness of their long LONG cold winters).
Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).
Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty & ignoring them with my snobbish attitude about women who "Live thru their h's careers".
Wish I had joined sooner! I met two women who are life long friends to this day.
Joined a writer's group-
Took a class in Conversational French-
Took a class in Italian cooking-
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot. Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or cheap.
I'm sure you can come up with several of your own.
GOOD LUCK!
25yearsmls.....wow! Just wow.
I will reply in a little bit, just wanted to acknowledge your post, going back to read your post again for the 3rd time and then will reply....
Sorry for the delayed response. Its been a pretty depressing last few days, this "detaching" thing isn't working out very well, why in the H*** am i waking up crying for 30 minutes, and crying when i go to bed? Im a very strong person, motivated, driven, work extremely hard to get what i want and im crippled right now?
Anyway this is what has happened since i last posted a week ago. I found out she saw a lawyer, she cried while in the lawyer office and couldn't stop crying so she did not hire them. She is seeing a councilor and has gone a couple times....
Meantime i have seen the kids a couple times, she is very short and to the point when we talk, very cold, as if im a stranger and the only attachment we have are the kids so that is why she feels she even "has" to utter a few words to me. It is extremely exhausting mentally to go through that. I have been on the verge of giving up, but the crazy thing is i keep telling myself there's always hope. Everyone around me is telling me to move on, its been almost 6 months, shes done, shes made her mind up, she doesn't have feelings for you anymore, she is moving on etc.... but even after hearing people say that, i still have ( very little ) light shining at the end of the tunnel and im holding on to that.
She is telling her circle of friends that she is coming to the realization that divorce is the only answer, she is scared and never thought she would be in this situation but she feels hopeful and relieved, nothing has been filed yet but this is the course she is taking.
Meantime i hear about her crying in the lawyer office, and starting to see a councilor, so i dont know what the heck to think. I have not ONCE begged or cried in front of her for the past 4 weeks, i have totally just been on cruise control but let me tell you, when im not around her im not on cruise, im a freaking wreck.
Anyway, the only think i can think to do is just stay away, give her space and dont contact her unless its about the kids. All the begging i have done has only made it worse, i haven't done any begging for 4 weeks but i haven't seen any progress either, so im not sure what to do other then stay away.
I was planning on possibly going home to visit her next week while the kids are at school, take some coffee and give it another shot, ask her if she can give us one more shot to move forward, it wont be like before, no questions, no demands, just move forward slowly, be with the kids for Christmas, go to dinner, go shopping for the kids etc...and if its going smooth i could move in. But i wouldn't bring up the "moving in" part until things are going smooth.
Please give me any advice on what to do, i feel like im going to explode and im physically getting sick thinking about this. Its insane how a marriage turned upside down can affect a person this way....wow.
Now listen to me, four weeks is nothing! She cried, so what? She's a mess! Of course she's going to cry.....what did you expect, balloons and popcorn? But just b/c she cried does not mean she is having second thoughts. It
might......but who knows? I started every day out telling myself I would stay in my M. By noon I was doubting it, and by the time I got home I couldn't wait to contact my OM. This went on for months.
The good news is she put it off another day, for whatever reason. Maybe she didn't like the way the lawyer looked, IDK. Her mind may change tomorrow. You can't read anything into what she says or half of what she does. She is seeing a counselor (which may or may not be good). However, I would like to think she recognizes the fact she needs help somewhere. Every day she doubts her decision, is good. However, it is not for you to be there trying to persuade her. She has to figure this out on her own and in her own time. If you don't want to wait around, that's your decision, but if you try to press her to make the right decision.....she will intentionally do the wrong thing just to get rid of you.
What I am saying is that you cannot read into her actions much of anything at this time. She will be back & forth b/c she doesn't know what she wants to do.
You, on the other hand, must be the stable one here.
You say detaching isn't working. No, detaching does work! But you are not detached. What isn't "working" (by whatever definition or expectations you have on working) is that you don't see what you want quick enough, so you fall back on previous actions (begging, pleading, crying) which totally turns her off. I mean, what woman wants that kind of man to lean on for support?
You seem to know a lot about what she does and says in the privacy of the lawyer's office and to her friends, so I assume you have sources to reveal that information? Are you talking or asking questions of her friends/family?
Sorry for the delayed response. Its been a pretty depressing last few days, this "detaching" thing isn't working out very well, why in the H*** am i waking up crying for 30 minutes, and crying when i go to bed? Im a very strong person, motivated, driven, work extremely hard to get what i want and im crippled right now?
Now get this....it is fine to cry in private. Okay? And I would venture to say you wake up crying and are depressed b/c you are worried sick about her and what she will do. You chose the name "love14"
So I think you probably love the woman, in spite of what she's doing to you.
Meantime i have seen the kids a couple times, she is very short and to the point when we talk, very cold, as if im a stranger and the only attachment we have are the kids so that is why she feels she even "has" to utter a few words to me. It is extremely exhausting mentally to go through that. I have been on the verge of giving up, but the crazy thing is i keep telling myself there's always hope.
As hard as this is for you, she sees you as the enemy. You are the cause of all that's wrong in her life. The more you interfere and try to put yourself there in her life....the more she will blame you for her unhappiness. Not fair, I know. But there is plenty you could be doing that may help her see that you are not the source of everything bad. The main thing is to leave her alone and keep things short and sweet when you do have to swap kids, etc.
I know this sounds horrible to you, but the LBH has no idea just how turned off she is to him, and how resentful she is. She may be telling her friends she is "done" b/c that's how she feels, and she's talking from her emotions.
It sounds as if you have been talking from your emotions, too. Not good for you to talk to her out of your emotions. I'm not saying you aren't allowed to feel whatever you feel. I'm saying that from the standpoint of the WAW, she will not respond positively to an emotionally weak man (when dealing with her). Make sense? If not, I'll try to explain better.
We women want our men to be stronger than we are. There is something in our very being that desires a mate who we can lean on, and we simply cannot be drawn to a man slobbering all over the place, or clinging to our legs begging us not to go.
Anyway, the only think i can think to do is just stay away, give her space and dont contact her unless its about the kids. All the begging i have done has only made it worse, i haven't done any begging for 4 weeks but i haven't seen any progress either, so im not sure what to do other then stay away.
You have the first part correct. But as I said before, four weeks is nothing. It takes a long time. In some cases, a very long time. That's why you have to be detached.....to survive. Once you really are detached, she will sense it. You don't have to inform anyone to get the message to her....she'll just know. She stops feeling the pressure. Right now, every word out of your mouth is pressure to her. Everything you do is pressure. You may not understand it, but nevertheless, it is. She is not the girl you M. Stop thinking of her as being that girl. She's lost. It will take time for her to find her way back. In the meantime, what are YOU suppose to do?
What are your personal goals in your growth/self improvement?
What are you doing to GAL?
Do you have your calendar filled during December?
Now that I've boxed your ears, I want you to know that I really do care. I hope you will post often.
I'm new to the forum, but have really appreciated your insights, sandi2, into the WAS/LBS dynamic. My W left very abruptly 2 months ago, told me one month ago it is over and she won't respond to any text or emails i send (she's kept that promise). My DB coach told me last week to go dark and i haven't attempted contact in a week. This is a second marriage for each of us and we don't have kids in common, so there isn't that opportunity to see each other or talk business.
I have one more paid session with my DB coach left and am fighting the urge to call him every day. Am hoping to start getting some more assistance on the forum. Thanks to everyone for posting.
love14,
Listen to Sandi. I repeat, listen to her. She was there, she's been here for years, she's like a prophet with these things. She'll say something and the next week, my W does that thing almost to a tee.
You are where we all were when this started. This is how I was thinking "In order for her to still know I love her, I need to show her how much I care. How much I want to make this work. How much I want our family to be together. How much she still means to me, etc."
The thing I was missing in all of this is it always is "I" or "me." She doesn't 'feel' that she cares about you or your feelings. In fact, she's gone because she felt you didn't care about her feelings so why should she reciprocate? So when you beg and plead it just looks like you're being selfish. It makes no sense, because in reality its the opposite of this, but she's not in reality right now.
It took some time for me to detach and even when I thought I did, I still hadn't. Even now, I'm not fully detached. But I can tell you that once it started to happen, our interactions started to change. I started to not take her spew, but more importantly show her if she wants a D, these are the things that need to happen. Well, I can tell you that they don't think about everything when they leave.
Today, I had the most relaxed conversation with the W we have had since BD. We had nearly no contact for the last 4 months Why was the conversation good? She was comfortable with the topic...a separation agreement. Well, as we were going through, I could see the concern in her that things were happening she didn't quite plan. When she realized that she couldn't spend Xmas eve or morning with the kids based on our schedule, she tried to get me to budge. I told her this was the schedule she set up. Then she got angry at me. Well like everything else; it was a dose of reality for her.
As many folks have told me. We want to help them....but guess what; we are the last people on earth that they want help from. I tried to help my wife cover up the A with the OM's GF. Know what it got me? Her cake eating for a weekend and then shutting me out from any communication another month when she didn't like what I had to say. My new mantra is 'Tough Love' not sure exactly what that means fully, but sandi has been the closest to me understanding what I need to do.
Been a rough road, almost 7 months. She called me a couple days ago wanting to take a step forward, a very small step but atleast a step. I was super happy, but unfortenatly according to her, I started acting like nothing bad has ever happened, so she withdrew today, to the point that she told me everything is her fault, and that I should just go out in the world and live my own life. She appologized for everything, and said she just can't do it anymore, she needs to get some control back in her life, she is tired of crying daily and feeling like a nobody, she just wants to grab on to something and take a step forward, take a breath. She can't get past he hurt that I have caused, so she told me that she will file for divorce this coming week...
I'm in utter awe, I do not know what to do. Is this really happening, after nearly 15 years and 3 children? I told her to please give us another chance, but she said that I am still the same as before, I will never change and she doesn't want to give me a "10th" chance. I told her it won't be the same, it will be better, but she said it won't because I am me and will always me me. What she doesn't realizie is that I won't ever be he same, I have so much to give and my eyes are open, but I'm not getting the chance to show her. I can't explain the grief I'm feeling, when you are shut out like this, it is extremely painful.
So, am I nuts for thinking EVEN AFTER ALL THIS , there's still hope?
Thoughts?
Hey love14. I'm not at all a vet... but I think you know the begging you did there pushed her away. What would happen if you surprised her by saying... "you're right W. I understand you can't get past the hurt. You have to get some control back in your life and so do i. I've got to go. Take care of yourself. bye." something like that that tells her that you are accepting her where she is and walking away yourself. Not at all intuitive. A huge risk if you look at it intuitively. But that is DB.
Don't fight her. Say you accept what she's saying and that show your courage by doing it. You showed her you're nuts about her. That is the problem she currently has with you.
Did she call you after a period of NC? Even if she didn't from now on don't send her a letter, or a text, or an email. Don't call. Anything you say now about how you think or feel will hurt you. If she contacts you... listen to her so you don't "start acting like nothing bad has ever happened" again. Surprise her by not chasing her. Take a chance and let her wonder about you.
In the meantime... do good thing for yourself. Become a better you. If she files... don't beg. Accept it with grace. Act as if you're moving on. That's DB. I mess it up all the time. But it works. Sorry about where you are. It is terrible. You can make it.
If she's talking D now... it is VITAL that you don't beg or contact her again. You've got to be the strong one. Strong enough to SHOW HER SHE IS LOSING YOU. If any part of her wants you... that part wants to see that strength.
Do you know why she pulled away so quickly? B/c you acted super happy. As much as you want to feel happy and start all over or act as if nothing ever happened, you can't afford to do it with her, yet. B/c she does not feel it at all. It kind of scares her away, like the squirrel in Divorce Remedy.
One reason a WAW acts so coldly to the LBH is b/c they don't want the H to get the idea everything is okay. It is their way of saying, "We have problems and things are not normal".
I could just give a small smile and my LBH would get excited. I would instantly pull back. I was not ready for him to get all happy acting b/c I could not feel hope like he was.
Do you know what she was referring to when she said you had not changed?
Have you had that deep soul search yet? Made out a list of goal? 180's? GAL?
Not a fun day....she filed. Feeling like I'm the lowest scum on earth.
So sorry to hear that. Hugs to you !!
Stay strong love14. Don't let her see you hurting. Go and do something anything to feel better. It's not over for you if you don't want it to be. Just keep following DB.
Stay strong. Accept it on the surface Don't ask her to change her mind. She feels (at the moment) that this is what she wants , you cannot change her mind with words. Keep busy and detach It's so tough and a lot of us are where you are but it's not in your control. Detach detach detach
I feel your pain and wish you the best Rd
What will detaching do for my wife and I? Will it help reconcile & mend our marriage? I keep hearing detach detach as if it's the cure to everything. I begged like a sorry worthless piece of dirt today, begged for mercy, begged for forgiveness, begged and begged.
All to be told that she can't trust me, I will hurt her again, I have brought her to this point, I have ruined her etc. she even asked if I'm happy that I have pushed her so far, she said that now she has to start her life over again and she burst out in tears. EVERYTHING is my fault according to her. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pointing fingers, I'm taking responsibility for 95% of it, but it's getting old to hear it over and over again. But I did break down when she told me she filed.
I respectfully told her I will let her go ( she asked me to let her go twice). And I hung up the phone. I am no longer going to pursue her, interestingly enough she called me after 1 hour and wanted to talk calmly, but only to tell me why she filed ( because of me ). Seems like because I said I'm done chasing her, she made a move towards me. Not s game changer but still....
Anyway, as of right now a couple weeks before Christmas, she has filed for divorce. So what in the world can a guy that is crazy I love with his wife do?
Ps: sorry if there's typos, doing this on my phone
Dear Love14
I am sorry and feel your pain. Begging is not the answer nor the way, I've been thee myself. It makes you look weak, not in control and it ruins your self esteem. We both know we can't change our wives minds, they have to change it or desire it. That's the sad honest truth.
My suggestion is to detach, let her go, don't plead or pursue, it only makes it worse. Again, I have made all of these mistakes too.
Work on yourself, be the best person you can be, GAL, and it's in God's hands. Regardless of the outcome, know that you have given it your all and you will be a better person in the end.
I'm sorry about the turn of events. You seem very frustrated about getting advice to detach. First, let me ask you if you have learned through your experience of begging that it has no effect on her? Will you continue to fall back on these non-effective actions?
You apparently do not understand the true sense of emotionally detaching from your W. The purpose is to save yourself, and saving the M through that process is a bonus. It takes more than detaching to save a M. That is only part of it.
So now the D is final? I know you are in terrible pain. Will you spend the next two weeks with friends and family, and don't hang around those who don't love you? Leave her alone. That is the only thing you need to do at this point. The worst thing is to continue to pursue with more pleading, trying to be her friend, or whatever. Just let it go. Take care of your needs for now.
love14, just caught up on your situation. Sorry for the pain and frustration you are feeling.....
Know that you are not alone (check out my situation - when I started reading your first post I though for a minute it was one of my older ones......) and that you can continue to move close to detaching........ it is certainly not easy and it will likely be a scenario similar to 2 steps forward, 1 step back for awhile.....
Stick with it and it will work though - you are getting great advice from vets and others w/similar situations......
Thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong!
I'm sorry about the turn of events. You seem very frustrated about getting advice to detach. First, let me ask you if you have learned through your experience of begging that it has no effect on her? Will you continue to fall back on these non-effective actions?
You apparently do not understand the true sense of emotionally detaching from your W. The purpose is to save yourself, and saving the M through that process is a bonus. It takes more than detaching to save a M. That is only part of it.
So now the D is final? I know you are in terrible pain. Will you spend the next two weeks with friends and family, and don't hang around those who don't love you? Leave her alone. That is the only thing you need to do at this point. The worst thing is to continue to pursue with more pleading, trying to be her friend, or whatever. Just let it go. Take care of your needs for now.
Sandi2, have seen many of your posts here and in other situations. I think it is great that you continue to take the time to "pay it forward" and help others who find themselves in these situations. I am sure I speak for all here when I say "Thank You!"
I know it is a lot to ask but if you have sometime would love your perspective / insight on my situation.
Thank you for the replies everyone. Sandi, she got an attorney yesterday and filed the paperwork, in our state it takes a couple months for it to be final.
I understand the detaching, I truly do, but how can one just wake up one day and decide to emotionally detach from the person they are madly, deeply and wholeheartedly in love with? Someone I would do absolutely anything for, someone who is constantly saying that she is in this position, her mental state, her depression all because of years of me neglecting her and valuing her? I had never in a million years had intentions to cause this. I love her so much, I showed it to her with words daily, affection daily, text messages, verbal, kisses, hugs etc... What I did not do is to listen to her true needs, her need of companionship mentally. That kept causing resentment in her until one day she said she's done.
As of right now, all I can think of is that I won't be spending the rest of my life with her, I won't have a chance to show her ( with actions ) what she means to me, I won't be raising our children with her by my side. It is unbearable, if I could flip the "detach" switch in my heart and mind, I would do it right now, but I cant, I just want a chance to be with her and show her how important she is, show her what an amazing person she is and how dearly I value her, I just want that 1 chance to show her with my actions.
Today you are too full of emotions. You are angry at yourself and deeply regretting your mistakes. You feel as if she is the air you breathe. I think it is human to have a lot of the feelings you have today. I am probably not the person that should be talking to you at this particular time. I just wanted you to know we were here and could hear the pain you are having.
We want to help you come through this, however, I am not sure how well you are able to take in a lot of DBing today. You can get better. Your life will get better, but it will happen a lot faster if you do certain things to help yourself. That is what detaching is all about. It is not to stop loving her, but to help yourself.
First thing is to stop beating yourself up. Go ahead and have some time of grieving, crying, anger, etc. But tomorrow, you need to make yourself get up and move. Learn to become your own friend and be good to yourself. That means forgiving yourself, too. Trust me, the self hatred is no way to live. It does not accomplish anything positive.
I will talk to you later. Maybe another LBS will be able to come say some words of encouragement.
Sandi, I did not mean any disrespect, I do appreciate your advice more than you know, I am just having a very rough day not looking forward to what's coming.
I know exactly how you feel and there's really nothing anyone can say that will make you feel better, unfortunately.
I had to understand that it didn't matter what I wanted. The choice was up to someone who didn't want the same thing as I do. I want tons of answers for a ton of questions, but most of them don't make any logical sense and that's stupid, too.
In the end you just have to feel crappy. That's all you can do is feel crappy.
Love14
i understand, believe me i really do. I thought i wanted more than anything to fix my marriage but actually i realise that somewhere along the way that a big part of that is wanting the pain and anguish to stop.
for me it felt like my whole insides had been ripped out or that it was like a black hole that was sucking everything good out of my world. At times i still feel that way.
The bit I find hardest is seeing how much i contributed to the problems and all the 'if only i had....' that comes from that. and that just adds to my pain.
I long for the switch to turn the pain off, just like i long for the switch that can turn my wife's love for me back on but i know that unfortunately neither of those exist.
what does exist is detaching. detaching doesnt mean not caring and it doesnt mean not wanting what you currently want. it means finding ways to not let the pain and self flagellation distract you from your goal which is not to save the marriage but to save yourself. when you save yourself you give yourself the best chance of saving your marriage.
its not easy, in fact its really really hard, and i am nowhere near there. somedays are harder than others but week by week it gets better.
in the meantime use this forum, youll get help and support here and great advice from the likes of Sandi2. but also express yourself here - let it out here - then you have a better job of showing your wife the best possible side of you.
Good luck
It [censored] - it really does. I feel your pain completely. I am in the exact same situation. So much pain - I feel like I am in hell.
Love14. So sorry , when people say detach it's for you. Not trying to hijack but I am sitting here at 3am in the morning watching tele Until this started I could sleep through an earthquake. Since W left I sleep about two hours a nite. I constantly think of her and how I will deal with life without her. She was everything to me and all I ever wanted.
Detachment is so you can deal. My W is gone 2 months and I now only cry about twice a week. She is not overly happy my kids aren't and I certainly am not however this is a road W has chosen so what can I do. Accept and detach, it's incredibley hard but without doing it I would be in a funny farm.
Your in the same boat and that's the only reason why the detach advice. Please belive that I and most others on here know exactly how you are feeling and understand the pain. Detachment is a way to deal with it but I think time and detachment together will get us through this.
Take care rd
Hey love14,
So sorry to hear about the recent turn of events.
The feeling of your wife shutting you out of her life is the worst feeling in the world.
Please know that you are not alone in how you feel right now. Also, just because she has filed does not mean this is over. Your wife has simply acted on what she has already verbalized to you. Her filing really shouldn't be such a shock to you. Your reaction is reinforcing the idea in her mind that you really are NOT hearing what she is saying.
My suggestion is that you take a step back, maybe read up on some other folks sitches, and realize that you are at the very beginning of a LONG road.
IF you continue begging, pleading, crying you will reach the end of your road VERY SOON. Is that what you want? What if it took 6 months of no contact with your W to fix this? Can you stomach that to save a 14 year marriage?
You are smothering the dying embers of your wife's love for you. STOP. Leave her alone. Your actions are the most harmful thing to your marriage right now. Do you not see this? I assume you did not win her heart over acting like this 14+ years ago. YOU NEED TO CHANGE. NOW!
I am rooting for you man, and so are many others who are watching. Please grow a spine and don't let us down.
Love14,
One of the most useful bits of advice and tools I've gotten here was to read and use the validation cheat sheet:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566I made the same mistake it appears you are doing, NOT validating your W's feelings and NOT acknowledging they are real. Validating her feelings is not a quick fix, it will not reverse her D filing. But it IS a tool missing from your marital tool belt that you will need to fix your marriage, or to function healthily in any future relationship if things go that route.
Right now you're the only one who thought "everything was okay." She doesn't feel that way and if you don't acknowledge her feelings, and you know her feelings are her guiding light right now, she will completely eliminate you from her life to protect herself on her new journey. She is still interacting with you right now, so optimize your own part in each of those interactions. She might go dark on you soon, so this really is your time to make your good impressions for her to think back on when she has doubts about her decision to leave the marriage.
Sandi, I did not mean any disrespect, I do appreciate your advice more than you know, I am just having a very rough day not looking forward to what's coming.
Don't worry about it, no offense taken. The reason I said I probably was not the one you needed talking to you right now, is b/c I felt another LBS could probably identify with your pain.
Even though detaching may look impossible from where you sit at the moment, it can be done.....if you want it. First step is making the decision to do what is necessary to get there. Based on what I've read, I don't think it is ever an overnight accomplishment. You have to set personal goals that will get you up and make yourself get out and go get a life that does not depend on a relationship with her......or any individual.
I saw the kids today and saw her, she was nicer to me today than she has been in the last couple months. Is it because she filed 3 days ago and feels some type of relief? Is there a chance that she filed out of anger, and now that she has some relief she might have a change of heart? Gosh this is so hard, I want to detach, but its so much easier said than done. I'm afraid there is zero chance if I detach. That's why I'm holding on, but the reality is that everythinf I have done during our separation has only made things worse. Answering my own question huh? Jeez my mind is just mush!
You are hurt and your reaction is completely natural and normal. All of the LBS who come looking for forums like this start exactly where you have.
You have to make the choice to change course if you are going to win your wife back. Your pleading, begging, chasing, moping around is just going to give her confidence that she made the right choice to file.
Her momentum right now is to RUN AWAY FROM YOU. You need to back off and believe me, it WILL stop her from running. She was once attracted to you, so it is extremely likely that the freedom you give her will cause her to question her decision to file.
Remember, no decision is permanent. She can divorce you and you can get remarried. She could even stop the D process. It's not for you to control what she does though.
Do you remember when you were a kid and you played tag? Everyone just stands around until they are being chased. When they get chased, they run away, until the pursuer stops going after them. Then everyone goes back to standing around.
I have recently made all the same mistakes you have, and the best results I've seen so far have been after I stopped chasing.
Hi Love,
I feel your pain, I really do. My H filed the week before thanksgiving and it nearly took the wind out of me. But here's the thing-- that feeling only lasted close to 15 minutes. Why? Because I have been working on detaching. And because, just as all of us have seen that M does not guarantee a permanent state with our spouse's, neither should D.Yes she filed, yes she has started the process. But it's nowhere near over. You still have TIME, and time, my friend, is a great gift. Go for a run, get a massage, pamper yourself. Get those endorphins flowing and try to find something positive about every day. The first few days it will be really hard. I had to leave post-its around the house to remind myself to eat or feed the dog. The shock can be paralyzing. But YOU can pull yourself out of this. It's simply a choice.
Hang in there-- it get's better, I promise. And above all, try to have faith. Faith in your M, but most importantly, faith in YOURSELF.
Many people on this site have turned their situations around after having many obstacles, including filing for D, put in front of them. Just remember: fear begets fear. Positivity begets positivity.
Have a good day! Be strong!
I'm afraid there is zero chance if I detach
Okay Love, then you tell us what part of detaching will cause zero chance? You say you understand it, so tell us how exactly what you would do to cause zero chance? It is not good enough to say detaching causes it. How are you seeing that particular part of it?
Have you read Peanut's description of detaching?
Hi
I know exactly where you are coming from but,as others have said, detaching is NOT just to work on your r its to save YOU from madness. I fought the whole process, a part of me still does (please check my various threads for my sitch).
I love and still miss my w despite having moved to another place and working my a55 off on detatching. That hasn't changed but the intense nightly pain has dulled and I'm working on a life without her temporarily (I can hope) or not but the difference is that if we do reconcile I won't be so hurt by small things and will be in a position to work on the relationship without it being needy or there being blame thrown around, likewise if it doesn't end that way when the pain and sadness subsides I'll have started the process to give a new relationship a chance without too much baggage.
Its also the truth that without me doing this there's no chance ever of her coming back to the old needy me.
I can't say dB processes will bring my w back only she can decide that but its put me in a much better position than I would be otherwise, stay the course, its a painful long slog of a road this and I think I'm probably still early in the route but I feel more human now than I did in July and possibly even before the bd date in July.
You're not alone. We all understand the gut ache this is, keep posting, keep the PMA, keep short goals and don't dwell and take care.
Edz
Thank you for the support. Is it morbid to say that I have comfort in knowing other people are going throught the same thing??? I hope not, but it's good to know I'm not alone & habe support.
So I called her today, keep in mind she filed 4 days ago. I asked if she would consider letting me spend the night Christmas Eve (in a seperate room) so we can both be there in the morning for the kids when they wake up at 6am to open presents. I went on to say "as friends" just for the kids so they can have an enjoyable christmas. She didn't hesitste and said that sounds good.
She also went on to say that she has a hard time just forgetting the past hurt, I kept agreeing with her and said there are no good excuses for the way I made her feel. I also told her I should have respected the time she requested instead of pushing her, because I pushed her in to filing. She told me she felt like she was drowning, and hadn't had any control since our separation and just had to get some control so she filed.
So, I have a golden opportunity here with Christmas Eve and Christmas day. I know it won't happen over night, but I need to conduct myself and leave a good impression during that time, absolutely no pressure or talk about the marriage, or the changes in me etc....
I'm thinking about just acting totally normal, respectful, not needy, confident in me, be great with the kids (normally great with them anyway) and just basically be out of her way, just to show her that in not needy, klingy etc...but I'm just happy to be there with the kids and share that moment with them including her.
Hopefully it could spawn some more " family dates" and I can continue acting "as if" and showing her respect, which in turn could cause some doubt in her heart and possibly put the divorce on hold?
Is my thinking right here or am I totally out in left field?
She saw her therapist today, first time after filing for D, the therapist is appretantly totally PRO marriage so I'm hoping she can talk to her about making decisions this major while angry.
Let me know what you guys think, what advice can you guys give me for the night I'll be spending there as far as being around her, conversations, topics so stay away from etc...
Thank you.
Hi
I don't think its morbid at all, I was really in a despairing state when I first arrived. I have no unrealistic expectations that there's a golden bullet to bring my W back then or now but being able to pop in and get advice, give some occasionally and very often have some of the great people here smack me with a 2x4 when I need it has helped as much if not more in a way than the counselling I also had.
As I said my sitch is more that my W has entered her own space bubble and occasionally floats my way or we intersect when I'm picking up S. Some things have got better mostly connected to my changes and detachment but reconciling or piecing are nowhere near coming to me yet, I'd settle for regular calls even!
So take my advice from the point I'm at and if a vet pops by here listen to them and ignore me completely
My opinion is that first and foremost I think it's great you will see the kids on Christmas Morning, my s will be with my W and her response on a suggestion like that would be "it would confuse him" - I'm having a t-shirt made up with that on it as apparently almost everything confuses him - BUT me being a downer here, be careful and this is where I encourage you to listen to those who have got to this point over me as this is opinion only.
Be there **for the kids** and enjoy them, don't focus on w and don't touch on the relationship unless you're validating.
Certainly you have a fantastic opportunity to show off PMA, 180's and validate but ensure you have absolutely *NO* other expectations at all which is for your sake. Before you go read Sandis rules and memorise them, then read them again, then again.
Be confident and PMA/180 your backside off and then when its time to go don't hang on for an invitation to stay, don't bring up "its a shame we can't hang out longer" etc avoid pursuing.
Keep that confidence exuding and be positive throughout even when you go.
I really hope you have a great day with the kids.
Edz
Thanks I appreciate it. Obviously I'm happy to see the kids and be with them, but more so to see and be with her. I will absolutely in no way talk about anything regarding our situation, when we talk it will only be about general things, the house, kids, work etc. I will keep my attitude confident, engaging & positive without coming forward as arrogant. I do not want to give her any hints of my pain, or that I want her more than life itself, she already knows that. I just want to act "as if" everything is fine and hope that it will spawn some more family "dates". My short term hope is that she puts the divorce on hold, she felt as if she was backed in to a corner and filed, which was mostly done out of her temporary anger, since she filed I have seen her twice and her attitude has been better than the last several months. Almost like a load was lifted from her shoulders.
I don't have any expectations, I'm just very happy that I have the opportunity to be around them on that special day, who knows maybe it will be a start of something very good. Slow start but still a start! Again, I'm going to behave, no questions and no expectations!
Hopefully it could spawn some more " family dates" and I can continue acting "as if" and showing her respect, which in turn could cause some doubt in her heart and possibly put the divorce on hold?
Acting as if....what?
As if I'm fine with what her decision is, I'm only there for the kids, not pestering her anymore regarding us, for her to reconsider etc...truly not asking her those things anymore. Just swallowing it and working on trying to cope and move forward. Not fully ready to "let go" in my mind. But one of the rules you had about "as if" was to act as if everything is normal, I will do that this Christmas Eve, no questions about us or our marriage.
Sandi this is hard but believe me I am doing my best. I'm just a hair away from calling her daily, texting her and just driving home to see her but I haven't done that. It's very hard but I'm making some very very minor progress in myself.
Sandi i would love your input regarding me spending the night at home christmas eve, wife is fine with me doing so, any pointers?
As if I'm fine with what her decision is, I'm only there for the kids, not pestering her anymore regarding us, for her to reconsider etc
Okay, good. The reason I asked is b/c some people use the "as if" but don't know how they are applying it.
But one of the rules you had about "as if" was to act as if everything is normal,
Actually, it says to act as if you are moving on with your life with, or without, your spouse. It may be possible to do Christmas, if you won't do certain things you would do if everything
was normal (putting your arm around her, giving her a kiss, snuggling, calling her a pet name, etc.)
Sandi this is hard but believe me I am doing my best. I'm just a hair away from calling her daily, texting her and just driving home to see her but I haven't done that.
So you are making progress b/c even though you really want to do these things......you don't. That takes a lot of strength. You are doing good. Keep it up.
A little piece of advice for Christmas: use silence. Sometimes, you'll have the urge to say something which you know is wrong, then be silent. Sometimes you'll say something just to fill a void: be silent.
Silence is almost magical: people assume you think the cleverest things, that you understand them, that you're on top of the situation, etc. Your heart will be screaming in your head, but if your really love your W and want your M back, know that silence is your ticket to spare you much trouble and setbacks.
Oh and avoid alcohol: your prefrontal cortex will be out of commission and it's the center of self-control. Avoid it completely if you can, even if it's a bit awkward or your W makes you feel bad about it. It could get much more awkward if you drink.
Thanks, definatly won't be drinking, I'm horrible when drunk and right now I'll just start sobbing begging her to take me back, I'm not having that!
Sandi thanks, I won't do things like I usually do when things ARE fine. I'm going to be nice, helpful, conversation will be good and not on the D topic, spend time with the kids and just keep the pressure of.
Hey love,
Sorry to be a buzz kill, but I've got to say something. Acting really doesn't work. Sandi's rules are just a starting point for newcomers. Eventually you DO need to be okay with your W's decision and you DO need to understand you'll be okay with or without her.
You have to start somewhere, and acting as if you're okay and holding off on calling her now is important, but you need to actually begin to move on. Yes, it sounds counterintuitive, but it's just how attraction works. I think you get that because you are doing a great job despite the intense feeling of loss that you're dealing with now.
WAWs are clever. They pick up on "acting" and she will test your resolve sooner or later. It will take some time for her to see that you are serious about moving on with or without her. Could be weeks or months. For some it takes years. When she sees that the pressure is off her, that creates room for her to choose you. You can't control that choice, but you can create an environment that allows her to freely choose to be with you.
Grow a spine, quit groveling, and start being a strong, independent, and confident man your W would have to be crazy to leave.
I agree with you, i will eventually have to be OK with her decision however, i cant even think of being OK with the thought of a divorce and losing her at this moment. I am trying my best by not contacting her with texts, email or phone. And i have not done any of that for about a week now. No begging either, i am going to act normal, as if im OK with everything and ready to move on with or without her, i will show her respect next time we meet and play alot with my kids. I am just hoping that at some point she will reconsider her decision and possibly consider a legal separation while she works on finding herself, and continues to see her therapist.
She kept asking me for time but i couldn't do it, i kept pestering her and did basically everything opposite of sandis rules. Obviously i now understand that i need to back off, but it is possibly too late because i pushed her in to filing for divorce....but again, im hoping she will reconsider if she can see a different side of me. I am doing the complete opposite of what i normally do, hopefully she will take notice because i wont bring anything up.
Take a deep breath. You're sprinting in a marathon race.
Remember that DB takes a L O N G T I M E
You're changing your course, which wasn't working, so that is good. Continue to build on your progress one day at a time. When you fall down, dust yourself off and get back up. Don't give up, despite how dark it looks now. If you choose to keep trying, you have a lot more energy and resolve than you realize. The longer you go without chasing her, the easier it will get for you to do what you need to do.
Hang in there.
I have seen her a couple times while I'm taking the kids. She's very nice to me, the anger is gone, not sure if it's because she's relieved that she filed for divorce or if it's because she has second thoughts. Could also be because I have totally stopped pursuing her, just speak with respect and somewhat of a curiosity (same as I was when we first met). I don't ask questions about the situation or anything of that nature. Although inside I'm burning up, I want to talk with her so bad, ask for a second chance, beg etc....basically everything your NOT supposed to do, I'm not doing it though. She invited me to the neighbors get together today, I'm going there for a couple hours to mingle with the neighbors and her, I'll be on my best behavior
The gathering at the neighbors went well. She was very nice (as she always is in public). We spoke and with eachother, socialized with the company and things went smooth. When it was over We went home and I said bye to the kids and her, then left. All in all, it was a very nice day, my hopes aren't up, the journey is long, but I truly believe her filing was mostly out of anger and because of me being pushy. I do believe if I continue this course of totally staying back, acting as if I'm moving on with or without her, and that I'm fine that it could possibly turn around. Let's see how christmas Eve and Christmas day goes....I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks for the update love. It sounds like you are holding strong.
Christmas is a few days away - what are your expectations for her on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day?
(I'll give you a hint - your answer SHOULD be "I have NO expectations"
)
You're probably already thinking this too, but set your sights further down the road. You need to pace yourself and avoid the temptation to place pressure on her to change her mind, or to back down on D proceedings, just because it's Christmas. No begging, no pleading, no convincing her to reconsider. Accept that this is how she feels now and acknowledge and validate her feelings toward your M. Give her the gift of freedom for Christmas this year.
Spending time home yesterday and today. We are taking like morning has happened. She opened up yesterday and said she feels relief that she did something, anything ( filed) to get out of the funk she was in. She also mentioned she is aware that she can put a stop/hold on the D. I was just acknowledging her and didn't say anything. She said that she wants to feel whole again, she has felt so low for so long and feels some type of relief now, and we have been taking for the psy 3 days like we did prior to all of this mess. The way I see it, she was in such a insecure place emotionally, feeling neglected in the marriage and basically felt everything was my fault, she might have a little doubt about the D now because I have stepped back 100% with the questions about "us", begging, pleading etc...I'm just acting totally mellow, engage in normal conversations and I'm not bringing ANYTHING up. I'm very confused about our future, but I'm just keeping my mouth shut to see what path this will take. The path it was on when I was begging wasn't going to a good place, atleast we are now talking like everything is fine but she did say she is aware of the sincerity of the situation, but she does feel good that she can breath and clear her head a little. So I'm going to stay this course and see if she feels good enough to in a few months to possibly work on us. What do you guys think of this situation? Is this headed to just a friendship or a marriage being mended?
Sorry typing on my phone, meant to say "talking like nothing's happened"
Hi love14. Really hard place to find yourself. Your W needs time and it's up to you to wait or not. My W left 9 weeks ago and came home Christmas Eve and is still here. If you were to visit my home you would think W and I were perfect. We watched a film until 2.30am this morning and cooked dinner together and cleaned up. Played games this pm and now chilling watching tele. I know her and know she is done. She has OM / friend and is happy. I have no doubt she will regret her choices one day but like you I never mention R or M. I act as if all ok and life goes o.n. It's so tough but we can control others and our Ws want / need to do their own thing. Detach and move on for your own sanity Take care. Rd
Hey love,
Glad to hear you had some relief from the stress of it all. But be very careful not to get comfortable. Nothing has changed, so you need to be sure you are working on your 180s and that you get a life (GAL). This will be crucial to your success in the future, which is uncertain, whether you wind up married, single, dating, or remarried. You need to rebuild your identity and sense of self worth apart from your W to really have your own life and sanity back
I'm only hearing your side of the story, but it sounds like your wife hasn't fully shut the door on your M just yet. Be very careful, if you hope to preserve the embers of love she still has for you, your pursuing, pleading, and begging must END. That has been smothering the flame between you two. Now is the time to get serious about acting out the advice you've heard.
Stick with the basics:
Validation Cheat Sheet Sandi2's 37 rules What are your 180s and GAL activities?
Thanks for the reply UpperCu,
Im hoping she hasn't shut the door fully, but im not showing my hope, im taking it one day at a time, she is supposed to have a party new years eve at the house, she mentioned it to me and i am hoping she will call or text next week to invite me. I don't have any plans so if im not invited i would feel crushed, but i have felt crushed several times in the last 5-6 months, so im really getting used to that feeling, seems like im just hopeful and loving her, i don't have control over anyone and just will go with the flow.
As far as me pushing and pursuing, i have stopped that, and since she filed for D 2 weeks ago it seems like she has opened up to me a LOT more, we talk very good when around each other and i don't ask, push or pursue. Nothing! I think that's helping her to possibly see a different side that she hasn't seen for the past 5 months.
Still hopeful, but defiantly holding back and not showing that.
Excited to see a "invite" to the party in the next few days.....
Hey Love 14
Remember, it's really important to detach, GAL and have zero expectations. Instead of waiting and hoping for an invite from your W, why not make your own new years eve plans? You won't be so disappointed if you don't get an invite, and you might really enjoy yourself doing something else with some other people...:-)
Would like to do that, but I also want to spend New Years eve with the kids. Making my own plans would mean I don't see them new years Eve.
Making your own plans secures you have something to do that night and are no longer held at your W's mercy. She isn't thinking about you right now and you will be disappointed if you place your expectations on her invite.
Do a 180 here. Make your OWN plans and have a great time. The kids will be okay without you that night. You should do something different and exciting. This can be the start of the "new" you!
I went on a Roadtrip by myself after my W dropped the bomb and it was scary and unlike anything I had done before, but I had a great time and had some adventures I hadn't planned on. For new years this year I'm going on a ski trip with some college buddies I haven't seen in a few years. Panning your time out ahead is crucial for the journey you're startung out on...
Sorry to hear your story but it really sounds like your marriage has hope, more than for many others here. But be careful because too much hope will make you slack becoming the person that you want to be/can be. Try to see the positive in your situation that you have a chance to personally grow, so does your wife. And give her the chance too. Going from married for so long to just friends is a long way, don't be scared. You can win her love back, but prepare yourself for a long and slow fight.
Like everyone else said. Do sth yourself, go on a trip, do something crazy, scary, exciting. For me it helped to become the person that I was before, more authentic, more fun. You will become more confident, stronger and less confused. The foggy mind in that you probably have will only go away if you GAL and get away from it a bit.
Happy new year and good luck!!