came through the door of my apt this am and hit by a wave of anguish. the realization that this is my life, an empty (of love) apt in a strange city. the love of my life has abandoned me and i have no hope. i actually feel the worst that i ever have! why God? why? slowly sinking in the pit of hell....
Bravo- You need to make your own hope. Pick yourself up and stop relying on your wife to make you happy. You're in a new city? That's a great opportunity. Get out. See the sights. Check out Meetup and see if there are any groups that interest you. Are you really empty of love? You have children - I bet they have lots of love to give. Focus on them right now.
Ral,
you r right of course. just sometimes it hits you, you know? my schedule REALLY makes it hard to get out. i did buy a book about my new city (portland-boo!) for the sights. i soak up as much of my kids as i can. my problem is the sense of abandonment (my biggest fear and the root of all my anger, self worth issues stemming from childhood). thanks for the gut check.
and Ral,
funny thing is i'm almost the flip side of the coin from you. i'm the LEO, W is the WAS. we made a cross country move-her 10 months before me. there is no OM, she just refuses to give me an opportunity to make things right.
I know - I've had that thought too, reading your sitch. Look- Portland is beautiful. You're close to the Oregon coast, which is spectacular....Microbreweries - wine tasting...sporting opportunities (my family is originally from that part of the country so I'm very familiar). Go check out Seattle. The southern part of Oregon is only 4 hours a way and there's all kinds of great things to do there as well. I'm a big believer in getting out doors when you're blue. I know the scheduling thing is hard (personally I think its been a huge factor in my STBX's depression and the distance that developed between us). Take good physical care of yourself rightnow - and watch out for badge bunnies! You're particularly vulnerable at the moment.
you now the saying right, your badge will get you girls but the girls will get you badge.
Rick thanks for that post!
One more thing Bravo- take a hard look at that quote on your signature line. Is that really a reflection of how you view the situation? Because that's the road to unhappiness right now. I know you've heard it on here a zillion times, but you need to focus on finding happiness and love from within right now - your wife can't give it to you
its more a reminder of the person i need to be to those around me that care about me. but i know that she is not responsible for my happiness-i am. i would like to be able to, someday, share that with her as she is really hurting beacuase of my actions and her own choices. but that is what she has to deal with-not me. she decided a long time ago that she could make me happy and by making me happy, she would find self-worth. but she couldn't, and here we are.
so after the W angry outburst the other night i didn't figure i would hear or talk to her for a while. she actually texted me last night to see if i wanted to say goodnight to my S. i called and talked to him for a minute and then spoke to her for a couple of minutes. asked her if she had a good day and her work. we ironed some childcare issues out. she was pleasant and laughed a couple of times. she then brought up that she doublechecked that our reservation for Christmas eve dinner went through (it did). i do know that she spent a LOT of time on facebook and skype yesterday (not snooping). she had put skype on my computer and made two accounts (one for her laptop) so it notifies my that she is on. just a curiousity. i know she had mentioned a couple of days ago that if i wasn't working she would've wanted us to all go T or Tng together. she said that she would try to bring the kids by before i go to work so i can be the first "house" they treat at. i'm also about to be indisposed the next two weeks for a training class so that will put a hamper on her work/social calendar. she did say that if i came home at night, i was welcome to take them out to dinner. not sure that includes her or not but whatever. this will be the first time since i've moved here that i wasn't available to all of them. who knows, maybe i'll be missed by ALL of them. nah.
I'm sure you will be missed. Absence makes the heart grow fonder an all that... It's good that you have a two week training class -- that will give you some space and distance to allow you to be missed as well. How are you dealing with the legal issues, since the papers have been delivered? Has it made a difference in how your W treats you?
Thanks for checking in Ahoy. I spoke to her arty. a couple of days ago to make sure that the changes we agreed upon we're going to be reflected in the final document. She & I have not discussed D since I told her I would prefer it being held off (submitted to state) till the end of the year for tax purposes but said it was up to her. We have been on vacation together w/kids since then. She has also invited me to Christmas eve dinner and to take the kids to see Santa but you know how reliable these WAS are. I do know that when we talk bout her day or work, she never asks about mine. I can't help but wonder if she's on Facebook more for cheerleading to keep her momentum up. Can't change that. Ladies how stubborn do you have to be to say that I'm the perfect father, compliment my changes (listening, patience, weight loss), still attracted to me, admit that she made mistakes too, and not be willing to give it a go? Frustrating!!
Quite stubborn.
More to say but I'm headed out for the day so I'll revisit later.
So left work at 6a to go to W apt to watch kids till 10a when babysitter gets them. Babysitter called in sick, no problem, I've got the kids all day w/a couple hr nap to be there for my family (major 180). Before she leaves for work she says I can still do the stockings for Christmas. Great I tell her I'll just need her & the kids stockings. She said she doesn't want me doing hers that its time to "transition". WTF? Its Christmas! This is part of who I am! I guess the gifts I've already got her ill leave at her place to open w/out my presence. Id love to tell her to stop mindreading! With the lack of respect for my feelings it may start to get easier to detach. I sure do still love her though, just wish she'd grow up & see what she has right in front of her!
The whole Christmas thing is horrible. My W has arranged our traditional trip to see Santa only I'm not invited. No discussion just a done deal.
I find it amazing that I can still love someone who has such a low opinion of me.
bravo -- why are you buying her gifts? I know it's Xmas and all, but this is one of the basic rules. No gift giving. And it sounds like your W doesn't want the burden of your gifts right now.
(jim -- may I recommend making a new tradition for Xmas with just you and the kids? Cookie making and delivering cookies to neighbors? Ice skating? Be creative. Build new memories.)
ahoy,
you are right. what i'll do is have the kids give the couple of things i've already gotten to her.
maybell,
i eagerly await you chiming in.
update:
so yesterday i rushed home to try to make my son's practice. well, i got there but he was not there. didn't hear anything from the W until 9p. she texted to see if i wanted to tell them goodnight. called and asked S why he wasn't at practice. he didn't realize he had practice cause W forgot. man he was pissed at her. she got mad at me (i didn't really care) cause i didn't text her to let her know. i told her i was sorry he was upset but she needed to back up with her anger as i did not deserve that. told her that calmly and then said "can i speak to my D now?" she got back on the phone after that and tried to placate me (as close to apology as i'll get nowadays) by saying she forgot cause she worked so much this weekend-and then hurriedly said i did too. told her to take care and hung up. 20 min later she texted again and asked if i wanted to call him again as he had calmed down. said no that's alright i don't want to get them upset unadvertantly. she said i could take the kids out to dinner on tues nite. saind thanks and signed off.
so today went to pick the kids up and didn't really pay her any attention or really even look at her. she kinda followed me around and said "are you mad at me?" just said nope and took the kids out for dinner & ice cream. when we came back, she said that she was sorry for bing rude last night and i told her i wasn't mad but i was getting tired of the anger she was showing me. she said again she was sorry and i accepted. she asked me about work this week and i kinda blew her off (it's ok) and didn't really ask about hers. she mentioned going to disney with some of her work friends in may and not being really as excited about as she usually is (that's where our Family always vacations). she was near me and was expecting me to give her a hug when i left. i looked at her and said take care and she kinda got off the top of the table with an expectant lood on her face. i smiled and walked out the door.
got to my car and realized i left important mail inside. when i went in she got off the couch and came towards me saying, "that was abrupt. i'm glad you came back." realized i better do something to show that i wasn't mad (anger used to be a BIG problem for me) so i hugged her and said i wasn't mad. i know i shouldn't have but it was a 180 to make sure that i wasn't leaving a difficult situation with feelings of anger on both sides.
let the 2x4's commence.
on a different note, i have felt somewhat detached today. which is weird after noticing that she is following a high school boyfriend on twitter but not me.
Let us know the outcome over the next few days. Does she withdraw? Seem to feel ok creating distance now that she has proven to herself that you still care about her and her feelings? Or does it stay warm? Just curious.
Agreed it wouldn't be right to leave her hanging completely. Ideally instead of a hug I might've said "why's that" with a friendly smile...but spur of the moment it's tricky. The good news is that your eyes are opened and you are fairly detached so if she reads more into it then she's the one mind reading. Keep posting!
well Zues,
interestingly enough, she called me out of the blue yesterday. i was upset because i was missing my S soccer practice (1st ive missed since i've been here). she was at the practice and she noted that it's awesome that i haven't missed any and S has too. we talked about S soccer abilities (he plays alot like i did) and how proud we were of him. she mentioned how much more difficult they have been lately (no Sh*t-wonder why?) and i validated that it was rough right now and i know she's doing a great job. she apologized again for her rudeness the other night. she asked me about work and told me a little bout her work. we talked about presents for the kids and i reminded her he has a game scheduled for fri nite and sat. i wrapped her up and she said ok have a good night, i'll talk to you tomorrow. oddly surprising that she would call considering she had plans last night w/a work friend (female). we ended talking for like 15 min. of course she mentioned that she had a lot of errands to do today. don't want to mind read but that phrase always sets my nerves on end. i've noticed that she has been on facebook a bunch kinda like an addiction. at some point, she'll run out of things to blame me with, especially as i've responded to her anger with calmness.
i would like to mention that i HATE facebook. how many spouses have "checked out" and spent all their time on facebook checking in with people that they weren't concerned enough to keep in contact with in real life? burns me up. ever heard of a phone, or God forbid a face to face visit? that was a source of annoyment in our marriage. we would all be together and she's playing on her phone-ARGH! even my S says she's always on her phone playing with facebook. it pisses him off too. no one likes to be ignored. of course, i don't say any of this to her, not something worth fighting over and won't get me where i want to be.
Facebook is just a sign of how checked out they are. But I get hating it.
I forgot what I was going to follow up with the other day, I'm sorry. I reread your posts and nothing rang a bell, so most likely Ahoy took care of it.
One thing though... you asked how stubborn they have to be to admit everything she admitted and yet not try? If you read the posts Sandi puts up (I don't remember if she contributes to your thread or not) she'll say it needs a LOT of outside reinforcement from people she trusts to have her back before a WAW will go back to the M. She's just that done with that way of life.
About 6 years ago I was in a terrible, terrible place in my marriage. I wished for my H to have an affair, to leave, to die in a plane crash. I just hated the way we were living. If I could have, I would have left him. But I couldn't leave him without leaving the kids too, and that was just something I would never ever do. Because I couldn't hurt them like that, and because I couldn't live with myself if I did. But I just wanted peace. And the possibility of being loved, needed, cherished.
Eventually, after a long, long time, I realized I couldn't live like that. It wasn't fair to my H. It wasn't fair to me. And it was a terrible example to my kids. To come back I had to find something that was just mine to invest myself in, so I could feel like I had space in the life we had made together, where before I didn't feel like I was a whole person at all. So I found an activity that I had to really invest in, that had an actual goal at the end. And I started trying to watch for the good in my H. Fortunately, he made a few good moves at the right times and I found my way back to him, and we had a couple of good years before we started drifting apart again. I guess, too, I stopped feeling like a whole person again, because we had some circumstances that I had to work on to get us through, and I took more than my fair share of the responsibility for dealing with those things. But we never dealt with those issues and I guess we're basically dealing with them now.
I didn't come back because he loved me, because I didn't believe that he did. I didn't come back because I loved him, because I didn't believe that I did. I came back because I felt a responsibility to try, and I couldn't live with the possible consequences of failing to make the effort.
My husband may have made efforts prior to my deciding to put on my BGPs, but I wouldn't have noticed. I was pretty self-absorbed in my misery at that point. So when you ask how stubborn... Realize to a certain extent she's going through the motions. Her interest right now is in being RIGHT, not in being married.
Hmmm... good words for me to hear too. Thanks for that.
Man I'm with you there. My W has always been a bit of an Internet addict (not that I should throw stones but I really try to stay off it when around the family), and shen the distance started to grow between us early this year she was on it non stop in the evenings. After years of being kinda snobby about not being on Facebook she signed up and was checking it all day. Sitting there on the computer while I was running around getting kids to bed every night. Ugh just not good. One thing I'm looking forward to should we separate is not having the d*** computer anywhere near the family area.
Wow that's a really good post maybell! You're such a great voice on these boards.
Oh, BTW, is there a reason you worked so hard to avoid that hug? Because one of the good moves my H made when I was trying to come back to him was to suggest non-sexual things that involved physical contact. That was what I'd been craving -- him doing stuff for me that I knew was for me, not just for him, as sex would have been.
wow Maybell, you really know how to make a fella feel hopefull! just kidding the reality is the reality. i just didn't want to pursue and trying to detach. but i'm glad i did because that was one of the issues in our M. and for the record for all of those reading, i began my changes before BD. and the changes can be for the M and for ME. it doesn't have to be a zero sum game like some have posted on here. do i want to be a better person-yes! do i want to keep my marriage by changing aspects of my behavior that were bad that i didn't recognize-yes!
in my M i was critical, angry, selfish, just generally not helpful and didn't show her my love in a way she would understand (LL). was i like that every day,no. but i realize the reality doesn't matter. it's the reality that she saw as our marriage and i can't dispute any of it. i live my W and i want to spend the rest of my life with her showing her that-yes, i can and want to listen! i'm actively working on me through ways i've previously posted. i think a large part of my sitch is that she wasn't happy with the way i was and who she was. as evidenced by her embracing the going out, tatoos, attitude with me (anger). she is angry with herself for not speaking up to me bout her needs (her lack of self worth from upbringing and of course me).
and she will not let anyone be a part of her life right now that has a difference of opinion regarding her decision to D.
Right... But if you read Sandi's posts, there were people in her life who could reach her without her feeling antagonistic.
But your W doesn't necessarily need that. It may be something happens to make her rethink. I was completely unsupported when I turned my mind around. You never know what's possible.
I didn't write all that to drag you down. Just to say, it's not like she's clinging to a position she likes. I think she just feels like she already tried the more desirable plan. So stubbornness isn't what it is.
Also words I needed to hear.
well no one here (her friends) have ever met me. they only know the horror stories she will tell. what's funny is that she doesn't want them to meet me as they would be in shock that i don't have foam coming from my mouth and i'm a charming Southern gentleman. we do have the anniversary of our first date coming up 12/18. i thought about sending daisy's-her fave flower-(last year sent roses to her work-she posted on facebook) on that day but i'm not gonna do that. then thought about sending a card with just a simple thank you. prolly not gonna send anything and not mention it. i'm sure that will surprise her.
PS i know you weren't trying to drag me down. just cop humor.
funny thing is when she told me that we treated eah other awful (while back) i told her it was good we weren't those people anymore.
I definitely feel your Facebook pain.
Having said that its really odd to see the contrast between what's on FB and real world
just saw the W at the soccer game. kinda a even keel encounter not bad not great. at least it's easier for me not to screw things up. at this point, i kinda think that's the most i can do. not shoot myself in the foot in interactions with her. the working on me is my deal. she has to decide to forgive me and work on her own issues. i still love her though.
took the kids last night to a hockey match last night by myself. another GAL and 180 at the same time! they had a great time. D got her pic with some of the ice girls. they thought she was adorable and that dad wasn't too bad either. one of them asked where "mom" was and was SO impressed that i had them by myself. sent pics to W. of note, she sent me 4 texts that i did not respond to as they were inconsequential. didn't "hop to " respond.
saw W this morning at soccer game. she was bout the same as yesterday towards me. seems like every time i see her lately, she asks if i'm alright or mad. just she's just now figuring out all those times i didn't smile in the past i wasn't mad, just not a "smiley" person. she walked us to my car while i put the kids in. she waited and then told me how impressed she was gettin the kids to the game and that i did a great job. shethen said "well i gotta go home and take a nap (she worked last night and tonight). give me a hug."
she mentioned again how she wasn't excited to go to disney in jan (for a race). she's only going for a couple of days and may not even go to the park. she said that it was prolly because the kids aren't going while looking at me sad. gotta call BS on that one. that was always the family vacay. she said that she's lost 5 pounds and i told her that she's worked hard for that and i'm proud of her.
so this afternoon, i'm taking the kids to S end of season party. another 180. i'm sure all the soccer moms will take note. if they knew what W was doing, they would think she's crazy!
Talked to W last night when she called to say goodnight to kids. She knew I had a test at my training & haven't been able to study like I want to (watching the kids). She told me she knows I'll do great and she believes in me. I told her I'd prolly stay up a while to study. She said don't stay up too late and to pleasebe careful driving. Wished me a good night. She was impressed that I had everything ready for babysitter this morning. She was running down a list & I already had it all done. Even down to giving S money for a field trip (she had forgotten about). Is this positive interaction or am I just too jaded?
Bravo, those all sound positive. Like most, (even me!, post-D guy) you still seem all too interested in whether or not your changes are evident to the STBX/WAS.
I have a feeling that you're so money and you don't even know it.
She will see it only when/if you are doing it for yourself because you have internalized a new reality. Our former mates can smell fake/trying too hard from a mile away.
Ever been in a dating drought when you were younger? Couldn't get a date to save your life? Didn't get one until you quit trying? Then, all of a sudden, your dance card is full.
That's all a stereotype of the single guy, but stereotypes exist for a reason. Potential mates (especially former ones) can sniff desperate. So keep on practicing until you are a pro.
Best of luck, my man!
Thanx Shake. Honestly, I'm not doing them to impress her. Would it be nice if it did? Yeah, but I'm doing it cause its the right thing to do. Took the kids out yesterday to let them pick out presents for W. Even took an 8 & 4 year old to a end of year soccer party by myself. But not looking forward to a long week w/oyt the kids.
The first day that they leave is always the hardest. Then I spend the next several prepping for the next time. Or for GAL. Or binge-watching Blacklist.
Heh, I am not guilty of trying to impress my XW; I'm guilty of wanting to show her how it's supposed to be done. The house looks better every time she comes by. And my motivations for that little factoid are layered and complex.
Best of luck to ya in the coming week.
So, W sent me a text this afternoon asking how I did on my test. She then said good job when I replied an hr later. Little while ago, she asked if I wanted to call to tell the kids goodnight. Told them I loved them and missed them.
Then she got on the phone. Pleasant talk bout her day. And then just as pleasant told me she talked to the L and he let her know that we can move forward w/out my insurance info. I mean, it was like we were talking bout the f*ing weather! So I guess she's gonna talk to him tomorrow. And I have another test I've got to study for. I just got quiet and said ok. She said well I'm sure I'll talk to you tomorrow.
NOT DOING WELL!!!!!!!!!
So, I'm sure she'll contact me today. Any ideas? I dont really want to talk to her but I don't want to feed into the picture she has in her head that I'm angry all the time and giving the silent treatment to punish her. HELP!!
Hi Bravo,
Are you concerned that she wants to talk about the divorce? I think its perfectly ok to let her know that now is not a good time (while you are studying for a test) but then give her a time and date when you think you can talk.
If she just wants to talk about general things - I would just keep the tone pleasant and end the conversation first.
Hi Bravo
I find a pattern that if I have a friendly conversation with my W, and particularly if I make her laugh she will almost immediately bring up the divorce or something related to it. There's lots of mind reading I can do here about the why but it would just be mind reading.
In my case if I end the conversation first she doesn't get a chance to do that (not great at this)
In terms of handling I think Raliced is right in that asking to put of D talk until after your test is perfectly reasonable
Ok folks. Looks like the D train is on its way down the tracks I'm tied to. Anyone got a knife they can cut me free with? Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. I want to be with my wife more than I'm scared of being divorced. I want her because she's awesome not because I can't have her!
We can give you the knife but ultimately you've got to cut yourself free.
The thing you'll find is that even if the D train hits, if you've put the work into yourself then you'll still be standing strong while the train is just wreckage.
Imagine yourself Hollywood slow motion walking away from that with barely a hair out of place while it explodes in the background. Those guys get any girl they want and that could well be your wife - you'd just need to marry her again.
I may have taken this metaphor too far....
We can give you the knife but ultimately you've got to cut yourself free.
Now I like that! Stick around Jim, we may just want to keep you!
The thing you'll find is that even if the D train hits, if you've put the work into yourself then you'll still be standing strong while the train is just wreckage.
Imagine yourself Hollywood slow motion walking away from that with barely a hair out of place while it explodes in the background. Those guys get any girl they want and that could well be your wife - you'd just need to marry her again.
I may have taken this metaphor too far....
Speaking for myself only, I like metaphors.
How are you doing tonight, Bravo. Any better?
Not really. Cried on the way home from training. Seriously, if you looked at me on the street & were a criminal, you would never want to cross me. But I had tears rolling down my face while driving. So I went for a long run in the dark in 40' windy weather. Spoke to her on the phone briefly but D wasn't mentioned. Very short & wrapped her up with a take care. She did mention that I'm quite the runner now. Some good memories were had buy us running together, she could talk freely cause I was out of breath. And I was happy to listen to her talk. I remember 1 time I hurt my ankle and went back to the car. So to inspire her, I drove the car beside her while playing " go the distance" from Hercules soundtrack. Cheesy loser huh. Just goes to show how awful I was all the time. Wish she would let herself remember just a few of those times.
Hi bravo,
I don't know if this will help but I went through a little exercise a few days ago that really helped me get the focus on me (that and the really good advice I've been getting).
Its 5 questions in turn.
1) list 20 things you like about yourself (you're not allowed to include anything that depends on external validation or that's only temporary). Don't move on til you get to twenty.
2) list things you don't like - but stop after 5 minutes then no more.
3) look at the two lists and right a new list - what would you like the list of 20 things you like about yourself to be (same rules as Q1)
4) list what needs to change to get there
5) come up with a list of small actions you can take consistently each day, starting today, to make progress on the changes listed at 4.
It might not help, but to me it felt like taking back a bit more control rather than thrashing helplessly trying to control my situation (or my W). If I can make my answer to Q1 the same as my answer to Q3 then I have no doubt I will have a good and fulfilling life.
things i like about me: esp/including the changes i've made
punctual
dependable
loving
great Dad
great kisser
can start to see my abs
loyal
honest
good listener
forgiving
quick wit
pretty eyes
keep my wits about when sh*t hits the fan
smart
don't want to list the negatives as i'll focus on them.
any vets out there? the clock is coming up close to midnight. any suggestions? i did speak to W today and asked her to leave car seat at daycare so i can pick up D tomorrow. she wanted to bring them to me but i'm leaning towards not wanting to see her. i haven't seen her since sun. i do know that once again she got a babysitter to watch the kids so she could go to a party. S told me on the phone last night when i asked why he called from the home phone and not her cell phone. i know she was talking to me with no emotion at all today. this fcking sux!!! so should i see her tomorrow or not?
oh and i've learned so much about relationships through my reading that i desperately want an opportunity to use with my W. any WAW out there-can you tell me if its a concious choice to forget the good times or has she honestly stricken it from her memory? i just can believe that she has herself convinced that 15+ years were all crap and just gone from her memory like a fart in the wind.
Maybell,
Did you remember the good times? Did u strike them or did something happen to refresh your memory? Sandi, 25, anyone?
Hey, bravo...
No, at that time I did not remember any good times. If I did I didn't give him credit for good motives. I can't say I actually saw him at all. I don't think I was able to see him till I made up my mind to. MAYBE I saw one or two glimmers that woke me up to the idea that I needed to see him differently.
The memories weren't gone, they were just eclipsed by the pain I was feeling. And there was a strong sense that if he loved me he couldn't have treated me that way, therefore he mustn't care about me or want to be his best for me. That's what makes the equation of consistent actions plus enough time equals change they can believe in so important.
Thanks for asking me that very timely question, bravo, remembering how I felt and saw things during that time helps me understand why things are the way they are for me now.
maybell,
if she invites me to do things with the family should i do them? reason i ask is whenever we are all together it provides a contrast for her in the kids behavior, my behavior, and that she can be relaxed around me. she actually has a good time (ie the vacation). this D is gonna happen. you know how you women folk are when you have a long time to make a plan. i have however, begun to detach somewhat and i'm not looking for ways to "save" her. i'm still kind but not falling all over myself to prove myself to her. like today, i'm gonna have the kids tonight, tomorrow night, mon night, and tues night. i want them for sun night but she said she want to see them as she is working the other nights. i just said we can talk about it.
she then said "what about us taking them to see Santa on Sun". i said sure sounds great and asked if she wanted dinner while we were there. she replied that it was a awesome plan.
she also wanted to verify that i would still be able to make the Christmas eve dinner reservation (my schedule changed).
my kids have also been telling me that she needs to be nicer to me and have been telling her that too. my D said that she told W that she needs to kiss me. thanks guys!
i'm definitely not pushing her on anything right now. no texts, calls, or stop bys. no R talks at all. the friend stuff is a definite bug up my as* though. she has a tendency to reflect those that she is close to and these are not quality people.
even S said that W is not the same person she used to be and its like her and i switched brains. ah the wisdom of an 8 year old. he's also getting pissed that she's making a habit of working 4 days a week and then on one of her off nights, getting a babysitter for them so she can go out. he's mentioned several times that he glad that he can always depend on me.
also she is getting NOTHING out of her counseling! the woman is a quack! she actually told her to go buy something for her. WTF? according to W, the goal of counseling is to "get the stress out of her life". i know buying boots has always worked wonders for me. how bout working on communication, self esteem, learning to forgive, owning your own happiness issues?
you know how you women folk are when you have a long time to make a plan.
Sigh. Seriously?
Except asking about spending family time with her, those two posts were all about what she's doing and how much better you're doing than her, etc. Get out of her sandbox.
WRT family time, that's up to you, but it sounds like it's working so why would you stop?
Marvell,
The comment bout the plan was passed on to me from women friends,FWIW. I'm not making a US v them or male v female. I get your point. Thanks.
I thought he'd renamed you to be a part of a 60s girl group.
I like my story better.
Maybell, short for Marvelous.
Yes, and I'm the lead singer of the sh*t tones. Lol
Hope y'all didn't think I was being disrespectful. That's far from the case. I apologize.
took the kids last night to meet with the W for Santa pics and dinner. i think i'm starting to actually detach. only a couple of times did i look at her longingly (she didn't see). things were relaxed and pleasant. i did catch her watching me a couple of times and i just kinda gave her a small smile or a wink.
the thing that's bad is that my S is really getting pissed at her. he even said it's like her and i changed brains. he doesn't really like who she is now and he hates her friends(absolutely no prompting from me).he just keeps asking me why is momma making bad choices? he has noticed that she doesn't go to church, gets babysitters so she can "go out", and is pretty selfish (his words). i just told if he is that worried about mama, that we will say a prayer for her. he did ask about my ring and if i was gonna take it off if/when mama divorces me and i said yes. he got a little sad and he doesn't want me to give up on mama that she's "just lost right now". breaks my heart.
this cross that i am bearing is becoming awfully heavy. just went to tuck my little girl in bed and found her crying. "what's wrong? why are you crying?" her reply "cause you and mama are not together". SHE'S 4 YEARS OLD FOR GOODNESS SAKES!
really struggling to not be bitter right now. just held her and let her know that i love her and i'll be her daddy forever.
then she prayed that we would all be a family together again. does the W deal with this? nope. if she did, she'd just blame me. will i ever let her know bout these things? nope, that would be manipulative but i wish i could.
i will be saying a special prayer for all the kids that are being hurt by these parents that are so caught up in their own pain (and its real) that they can't see the pain caused to the truly innocent!
You have a very astute and amazing little girl, bravo.
My D has tough nights where she asks a lot of questions. "do you want a divorce, Mama?" or "Why can't you guys work this out? I mean, it's important. It's important to me!"
We talk a lot about it and I talk about her feelings rather than place blame. She asks if I'm sad about it and I'm honest. She's a pretty bright girl and I think has put the picture together. She's not loving the situation as it is but she has adapted as well as can be expected.
I don't think my H deals with half of the conversations about it all as I do. He just speaks with a happy voice and reminds her that he loves her and that mommy loves her and that all should be right with the word. She calls him on it. LOL
She actually says, "I know you love me dad, that's not the point." Cracks me up.
H has actually said he has talked to "lots" of people who say they aren't that broken up about their parents' divorce and are perfectly "fine". I tell him he's talking to the wrong people. He just shrugs.
Just goes to show you that you can find evidence to support your cause no matter what your cause is.
Can't change the situation for her though as much as I truly want to.
I'm just sorry we have to see their pain on their faces.
I have no idea if my W gets the same from D3 that I do but it breaks my heart.
I get
'Why doesn't mummy like you anymore'
'Don't leave me daddy'
'I don't like it when you're not with me daddy'
'Dont worry daddy I still like you'
'When will it be a mummy and daddy day again?'
'When will mummy go back in your bed'
'Why isn't mummy in granny's room'
Etc. Etc.
Like you say though if she did it would just be another cause for resentment that 'I made her do this'
While D affects kids and yes, they would probably be happy if their parents stayed together, we know that's not going to happen in all marriages.
What we do know is kids fare better in these situations when the parents don't put the kids in the middle, don't blame the other parent (even subtly)and don't involve them (child) in something that's an adult situation.
That's where our focus needs to be. Your W isn't doing something TO the kids, yes, her actions, along with yours will affect them but it doesn't have to ruin them. I don't know your whole story but marriages aren't usually broken by just one act or one person. Your W may have tried in her way to work on the M, and most likely it didn't look like trying to you as I'm sure you may have tried and it didn't look like trying to her. That's how these things go.
Both parties have responsibility.
Stop keeping score. It's a no win exercise.
Accept responsibility for your part and let go of the blame. It's completely unproductive and the hurt and anger that doing that keeps alive will be telegraphed to your kids.
Take the high road.
Walk your path leave her to hers.
i don't involve my kids. its hard sometimes when they ask me questions but i always respond with positive things to say about their mother (even when its hard sometimes). i have accepted responsibility for my part (even more than my part) but it is difficult to see the kids pain that comes as a direct decision on her part. i did not choose this and i do not support this. ergo, i'm not gonnna take ownership of this, but i do not project this to them.
H has actually said he has talked to "lots" of people who say they aren't that broken up about their parents' divorce and are perfectly "fine". I tell him he's talking to the wrong people. He just shrugs.
My W says the same thing. But I know that you can google anything and find the point of view I want. Heck I could probably google "is it okay to kill someone" and you would get a positive answer
wondering if the ramifications of D is starting to cross W mind. the other day she mentioned how she was going to have to "figure something out" when it comes to getting a house in the area we live. she makes good money but not enough to be able to stay in the same area by herself. she looked kinda stressed and she HATES living in that apartment. i didn't say a word just listened. i know my S really wants to stay at the same school and was grousing that if W didn't leave me we could pay for a house. didn't respond to that either just said that his mom was doing the best she can.
i don't involve my kids. its hard sometimes when they ask me questions but i always respond with positive things to say about their mother (even when its hard sometimes). i have accepted responsibility for my part (even more than my part) but it is difficult to see the kids pain that comes as a direct decision on her part. i did not choose this and i do not support this. ergo, i'm not gonnna take ownership of this, but i do not project this to them.
Of course it's hard, many things with kids are hard in some way. But that's what we do as parents. It's good that you're not involving them, my post wasn't accusatory, just stating the facts of what good parenting looks like through this. Cautionary tale, I did do some subtle back stabs and in 26 years of parenting those are the things I wish I could take back.
I went back and read your early posts and I'm curious why or how you've taken responsibility for more than your part?
Were you the sulking, brooding angry person or the explosive, violent angry person? (violent doesn't have to mean against another person, it could be throwing things, punching walls, etc)
It seems your W is probably afraid of you, that's what living with an angry spouse does. Kids living with an angry and/or depressed parent don't do well. Everyone walks on eggshells. This is mind reading but when she moved she most likely noticed the difference in her life with you and her life without you. the eggshells were gone.
It's going to take her a long time to be able to see that that angry man isn't coming back. What are you doing to show her your commitment to change, especially in regards to managing your anger?
I know you said it went away but I would need to see some concrete steps were I in her shoes. She could think this is a Mr Nice Guy act just to get her back and fears that if she lets you in just a little bit angry H will return. I would guess that might have happened once or twice in your M. And that's why her decision to leave you was the last resort. She saw no other way.
And now she's thinking "Why did it take me leaving you to get you to change? I don't want to continue in a situation where everything has to go to this extent."
I was the depressed angry person in my M so I'm speaking from my experience. I wasn't violent, I didn't yell and scream or break things. Mine was the silent but deadly type, just as destructive. My H still had feelings for me but he didn't want to because he'd had enough. He shut that part of himself off. He went so NC on me you would have thought he wrote the DB book.
He had to see real change and continued commitment to change in order to even be in the same room with me.
And it did take him leaving for me to change, really change. We had had the discussion before and I said things would change. It never lasted because I wasn't committed to it. You could say I hadn't hit bottom.
I finally saw that I was the negative force in my life, no one but me. I had to change for me, not to get my M back, but to get my life back.
Maybe this is your bottom. I hope so, because your life can be so much better.
I know you're hurting now but you have power here. The greatest power we have is, we control our lives.
What are you doing consistently to be the man you need and want to be? You had a lot of trauma in your past, how are you dealing with that?
You can do this, it's not easy but most things that are worth anything, aren't easy.
Hang in there.
I wanted to add that even tho I said this is mindreading
she most likely noticed the difference in her life with you and her life without you. the eggshells were gone.
it's also common.
My H dropped the final bomb after I came home from a 10 day mission trip to Honduras. I knew something was different the minute I saw him in the airport.
bug thanks for commenting.
i have been in therapy since early july (2014) to be a better me. i've learned that i didn't deserve the treatment that i got as a child. i felt that it was something wrong with me instead of issues with my parents. i have never been violent but yelled in fights but never threatened, punched walls, etc. she did feel as if she was on egg shells. i've realized that all the things that would happen that i would get upset about JUST DON"T MATTER!
i guess that means that i have hit rock bottom. in spite of the "spew" i've gotten from her since i've been here, i haven't raised my voice one time but truly have tried to see her point. and even when i can't, i realize that those are her feelings and who am i to try to change them. go back and read some of the spew i've gotten-its been bad and no reverting to who i was.
even my C has said that i'm a totally different person. i mentioned to her that i am worried about being bitter towards W. she said that she had no fear of that as "you wouldn't even fit in those clothes anymore".
i had an epithany yesterday. the person my W is right now is not who i want to be with. this relationship does have to die. i deserve better that i have been treated. i could not take her back in the shape she is in right now. i've put/and still putting in the work. basically i'm hoping to keep a small kernel of hope in the shadows of my heart while still moving forward. i do love her (well who she was and could be again) and i hope she finds the woman she once was. for that to happen, she will have to face herself in the mirror and change what needs to change. oddly detaching at an alarming rate.
I read your threads and I don't see any spew from your W. Can you point me in the right direction?
I do see lots of mind reading.
i had an epithany yesterday. the person my W is right now is not who i want to be with.
So she lived with an angry person for several years and decided she didn't want to live like that anymore.
You've been at this for a few months and have decided she's not who you want to be with but you can't understand why she walked away from you.
What is it that's she's doing that makes you want to let go?
Who are you? What are your values? What kind of man do you want to be through this?
I think you could take a few days and really think about who you are and who you want to be cause right now, you're all over the place. That's not unusual but it helps to be able to choose a direction and work to get there.
i do understand why she walked away. intellectually i see it. and the thing is i'm not mad at her for it. it hurts like hell, but i can see her reasoning. i don't understand, however, her belief that people can't and don't change and her willingness to throw away the hope for what our M could be. especially in light that i started making changes before the BD. why not give it a little time to see if its real?
first and foremost, i am a Christian man, a loving father, who is generous and kind and loyal. i believe in surrounding myself with other Christians who will encourage, support, and keep me accountable in my walk.
i do love my W, and i want to have a R with her as i believe that we can work things out. i do want to be wanted though. the aspects of her that have changed for the negative have allowed me to detach.
so far as spew, when the love of your life tells you that she wishes she had kids with someone else, that she was supposed to have a good life, and tells you that she doesn't remember a single good time, that feels like spew to me. maybe i'm wrong though.
she is reflecting and allowing poor influences in her life right now. she only has a couple of days off a week and gets a babysitter to watch the kids so she can go out drinking with her friends. it hurts the kids. her Christian values used to be more a part of her life and her closeness with people of these morals is saddening. she doesn't go to church anymore or say prayers with kids at bedtime. she drinks everyday and its like she's trying to find her 20's. i'm not downing people who choose this lifestyle, but i always respected and cherished her for her strong faith and value system. i pray for my W every day and that He will take away the pain i have caused her. i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME. i know she can't/won't see that right now, so i'll continue to show her unconditional love while still working to improve myself.
i'm sure all this is confusing and seemingly contradictory but its my story and i'm sticking to it
.
I appreciate your standing for your M. However there are a number of reasonings that you've come to that you should dispel.
When you first got here you posted ... "Over the years I broke her spirit w/my critical nature and anger."
Now you said "years". Not days or weeks, but YEARS. That's why she doesn't believe in your changes. She probably tried to get you to change before or to bring it up to you so you wouldn't keep hurting her, but you didn't listen and probably became even more angry and critical of her.
And now because you've "suddenly" woken up, you expect her to fall back into love with you just because you've made a few cosmetic changes. Doesn't work that way.
All that stuff about you being a Christian man, etc. doesn't mean anything because you only became that after she left. Now suddenly you seem to act holier than thou and see her as a terrible woman when she had to put up with so much over years.
"i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME."
This comment especially seems very judgmental. She thought that when you first got married, but not any more. A little more humility and compassion on your part will go a long way.
Mr. Bond,
the realization that i needed to be a better man was not brought on by the BD. i get why it seems as if i'm not humble or compassionate. i have worked hard at being a better man and i'm proud of the work i've put in. i don't think she's a terrible woman but she is not the quality of woman she has been. i don't bring up any of the concerns i have regarding her behavior as its her life. if this is a mistake, its her mistake to make. just as i wasn't the quality of husband she wanted me to be. i truly regret that and i will be a better man the rest of my life. i hope that i get the chance to be a better husband to her.
so far as compassion, i am working on that. i validate every chance i get, and ask about her day and let her know how proud of all her accomplishments i am. i have also asked for forgiveness for all my wrongdoings. i never tried to convice her her memories weren't accurate or minimize her feelings of pain.
with all that said, i can't change the past or force her to forgive me. that has to be a decision she makes and i pray that she makes it. i love my wife. in the past, if someone were to cross me, they would be out of my life (prolly forever). that is something that i decided needed to change before i moved here and made concrete steps to reaching out to those that i had crossed of my list. i never thought that i would be in the position that one of the first people to test that resolve is my W. proudly though, its not a concern of mine as i still love her with all of my heart.
what's the best next step?
So what's the best next step? I really want to learn from y'all
I didn't see an answer to this from my earlier post to you.
"I went back and read your early posts and I'm curious why or how you've taken responsibility for more than your part?"
i do understand why she walked away. intellectually i see it. and the thing is i'm not mad at her for it. it hurts like hell, but i can see her reasoning. i don't understand, however, her belief that people can't and don't change and her willingness to throw away the hope for what our M could be. especially in light that i started making changes before the BD. why not give it a little time to see if its real?
Tell me what you understand about why she left.
I think you are mad and that's to be expected. Anger is an emotions we all have. Denying anger isn't dealing with an anger problem. It just makes it worse.
Have you told her in the past, "I'll change, you'll see. This time will be different"? or something similar.
first and foremost, i am a Christian man, a loving father, who is generous and kind and loyal. i believe in surrounding myself with other Christians who will encourage, support, and keep me accountable in my walk.
That tells me nothing about the man you are or want to be.
i do love my W, and i want to have a R with her as i believe that we can work things out. i do want to be wanted though. the aspects of her that have changed for the negative have allowed me to detach.
You're not detached, far from it.
so far as spew, when the love of your life tells you that she wishes she had kids with someone else, that she was supposed to have a good life, and tells you that she doesn't remember a single good time, that feels like spew to me. maybe i'm wrong though.
When I read the word spew, I expect cursing, anger, emotion, lies.
Why do you think she wishes she had had children with someone else?
she is reflecting and allowing poor influences in her life right now. she only has a couple of days off a week and gets a babysitter to watch the kids so she can go out drinking with her friends. it hurts the kids. her Christian values used to be more a part of her life and her closeness with people of these morals is saddening. she doesn't go to church anymore or say prayers with kids at bedtime. she drinks everyday and its like she's trying to find her 20's. i'm not downing people who choose this lifestyle, but i always respected and cherished her for her strong faith and value system. i pray for my W every day and that He will take away the pain i have caused her. i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME. i know she can't/won't see that right now, so i'll continue to show her unconditional love while still working to improve myself.
Right in this paragraph, you're all over the place and I understand that it's tough.
All you have control over is if the kids say prayers when they're with you.
How do you know she drinks everyday?
How many days a week do you have the kids?
How much of your time off did you spend one-on-one with the kids before BD?
You don't get to decide what's best for her.
None of that paragraph shows unconditional love, it's all about judgment, control and superiority.
You haven't lost this yet but it seems now you want to deflect the focus from you and turn it to her. She's not a "quality" person. What does that mean?
Are you ready to D her re this quality issue?
i'm sure all this is confusing and seemingly contradictory but its my story and i'm sticking to it
.
If that's the case, no one here can help you.
"i don't think she's a terrible woman but she is not the quality of woman she has been."
"quality of woman"? So you expect her to be a certain quality? She's an individual not a piece of meat.
What I mean to say with the quality statement is that her values have seemed to change.
Before BD, I was not near an involved Dad as I am now.
I put all the blame on myself for the broken relationship & put her on a pedestal and I expressed that to her.
I want to continue to be the man I've become, calm, considerate, trustworthy, learn how to be happy on my own.
Her askng me to change things I did was an issue I struggled with . She would ask me to for example kiss her bfore I left everyday. So I would do that for a while and over time she would ask for something else. Well I would get upset that she wasn't acknowledging my improvements and say to myself, nothing is ever gonna be enough for her. I actually expected to be rewarded for things I should've been doing all along. I was such an ahole. I see it clearly.
That's why its so important to me to end every interaction w/her with a hug if she wants one.
She texted me this morning about signing the papers. She mentioned that she's not happy but needs to move forward. Told her I wasn't goi g to stand in her way. That I cared about her so much and I didn't want to say hurtful tthings as I'm in pain a d could we finish it later.I regret telling her we could've been an awesome family because I've lesrned so much. Then she invited me to thanksgiving.
So Bug and Bond,
I'm just a broken man that loves his wife that is trying not to self destruct due the poor decisions I've made in my life thst has impacted thosebi love negatively. I'm so sorry I hurt my W and kids with my critical and selfish nature and i would give up years off my life to show them how I truly feel inside.
I guess I've been looking for things she's doing wrong (in my mind) thinking that will help me detach.
Bug,
She didn't/couldn't believe I would change. She thought if she didn't get out now, she never would. My S complains that she drinks everday. I have the kids two, sometimes three days a week. I spent a little time w/the kids one on one before the bomb drop but acted like it was more obligation than joy.
I wasn't excited about having a second child and especially not a girl. I was afraid of having a girl because of the poor relationships I had w/my sister and mother. Scared that I wouldn't be a good dad to girl.
my pride is gone. i'm at my bottom. where do i go from here? i'm maintaining the changes cause i never want to be that person again. help!
Keep on with what you're doing. If this is bottom then the only place to go is up. Think how exciting that is! From here, you and your life will only get better! What will that be like? Imagine it here. This is the person you'll be no matter who is by your side. The things you'll do, the hobbies you'll cultivate, the new things you'll learn. Who is that person?
You've so got this.
just got back from taking the kids back to W apt after church. i gave her pictures from Santa and soccer pics. she gave me the divorce settlement to sign and send to her lawyer. nice trade huh. noticed that she had taken down a picture of her and i from one of our first trips as a married couple. i didn't say anything but she noticed me notice it. she said, i'm erasing you from their lives. and you're such a good person. i didn't lose it or cry. of course i wanted to say if i'm a good person what does that make you for leaving me.
let's be honest divorce means that you are willing to give up days with your own children of you're own accord. that's such BS! yeah looking at that i see how sorry for myself i'm feeling, i just hate this and i'm tired of the pain. she wants me to go to thanksgiving with them. she gave me big hug when i left.
i only get the kids for one night this week because her mom is in town. i wonder how long it will take after the divorce for her to realize that i can't be her default blame for everything and happiness isn't garunteed with divorce.
I'm sorry that's how things are right now. I wish I could change it for you and for all of us.
noticed that she had taken down a picture of her and i from one of our first trips as a married couple. i didn't say anything but she noticed me notice it. she said, i'm erasing you from their lives. and you're such a good person.
Are those the words she actually used. I'm pushing you because you sometimes say things and then walk it back. Like her spew.
So what were her words about the picture.
let's be honest divorce means that you are willing to give up days with your own children of you're own accord. that's such BS! yeah looking at that i see how sorry for myself i'm feeling, i just hate this and i'm tired of the pain. she wants me to go to thanksgiving with them. she gave me big hug when i left.
bravo, you've said yourself that before the BD, you didn't spend much one-to-one time with your kids so it's hardly honest for you to paint her as an uncaring parent. She did everything for them for years.
Her inviting your to Thanksgiving with them hardly follows with the "erasing you" comment.
i only get the kids for one night this week because her mom is in town. i wonder how long it will take after the divorce for her to realize that i can't be her default blame for everything and happiness isn't garunteed with divorce.
Her happiness wasn't guaranteed with you either. And this is all from your writing here when you're being honest with yourself and us. You have said you were angry and treated her horribly. And that was for how many years? So it may take half that number for her to feel comfortable with you if she ever does. We have no crystal ball.
But what you can do is set your plan and work it. You have a roadmap and it's pretty much contained in this quote from you
I'm just a broken man that loves his wife that is trying not to self destruct due the poor decisions I've made in my life thst has impacted thosebi love negatively. I'm so sorry I hurt my W and kids with my critical and selfish nature and i would give up years off my life to show them how I truly feel inside.
It's easy to say you'd give up years of your life but you have the opportunity to do just that starting today. Make every interaction a good one. Spend fun times with your kids but don't just be a Disney dad. Read Claire's and Maybell's threads for suggestions on what to do and what not to do as a father who is now taking an active role in the lives of his kids. Or ask them directly.
Most importantly, believe that your W knows what's best for her. Don't remind her constantly that a D is not what you want, drop the hang-dog look when she's around. Stand proud knowing that you're going to change and make life better for your kids.
IN the past how would T-giving had been spent by you? Not your family, what would you have done?
Bug,
She said I was NOT being erased from their lives. Simple typo.
Simply put, the comment about treating her horribly for years is kinda muddy. Was I unkind during fights at times, yes. The point was that she felt that way and I refuse to minimize her feelings in that regard even if they may not be 100% factual. That is the way I took on more of my share of the blame. If that makes any sense.
She is a caring parent it just seems different now and not only to me. My S has made many comments about it & I reassure him how much she loves him.
The only time D comes up is when she brings it up. Outside of the reaction to the pictures and the text the other day, I haven't said anything about not wanting a divorce in a couple of months.
I make every interaction w/W pleasant and upbeat as I can. The kids and I have a great time together. Sure we go do the "fun stuff" but also the mundane like homework and grocery shopping.
This is all so hard, because I was so excited about a new start with my family. I don't want to believe that this is the end but it is for now. It's lime I was the one in a "fog".
Buts it's my choice and responsibility to be the man I want to be. The man I am is all the things that she wanted. Even though she says she doesn't now, that may change later. But regardless that man can be a blessing to his kids and others in his life.
Most T-giving one or both of us had to work. If I didn't, I would cook for the fam or we'd go to the in-laws.
Lord, please heal my family and send a Miracle to bring us back together whole.
Those were your words. It's very hard to get your full story in an understandable way as you do the walking back thing.
I wish you well.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to leave the NOT out as that most definitely changed the message.
I get to have my kids for the night. Yea!!!
Simply put, the comment about treating her horribly for years is kinda muddy. Was I unkind during fights at times, yes.
This is what's confusing. Many times throughout your thread you've written about how terrible your behavior was and now, it seems it wasn't that bad.
It's difficult to understand what exactly is going on because the picture you present keeps changing.
Enjoy your kids.
I can understand that confusion. Did I while arguing with her call her names? No, never. Did I question her love for me during fights? Yep. She was nagging me in fights(my perspective). I was telling her how she should or shouldn't feel during fights. I felt that I was being attacked when she was asking me to address her needs or even just listen. I had no idea of the differences in which we were both assuming the other thought.
I'm looking at our relationship as she saw it and I can see how it was horrible for her. There are no excuses or even justifications I could offer. The point is is that although I never hit, called her names, or cheated on her the emotional pain I caused is just as real. I didn't tell her how much I appreciated the hard work she did. She worked full time, took care of two kids, was in grad school all while her Dad was sick. And her husband was cloistered up in his man room. I sucked!
That in combination with not being a generally happy person and not being their for her led her to this decision. It has led me to see a lot of things about myself and my behavior I didn't like. I know it would take a long time if ever for her to give me an opportunity to be together again as in, or for her to even forgive me.
But my behavior and who I am is the only thing I can control.
I do miss her so much and I know how great it could be.
So I just had the divorce papers notarized and sent off. Even though the M was over the second she decided it was that still really hurt. Especially as it seems so few WAW ever come back.
So I booke a hotel for just me and the kids for a couple of days before Christmas so we can explore a resort area we've never been too.
I also got an email from George Kenworthy yesterday that he was praying for me. God I hope and pray that you'll reunite our family someday.
I've decided im going to Tgiving w/them tomorrow. My S pled with me to go. Gonna go & be pleasant and soak up my kids.
My schedule changed & she's gonna wanna talj about how to cover the 5 days she & I r both working. Im gonna leave that in her sandbox. What do y'all think. I told her that I had the option to stay on old schedule & she encouraged me to change. Also this is what she wanted so she can pay for childcare for those days. She also makes twice the money I do. Not to mention that several times in the past months I've taken days off for coverage not her.
What makes you think so few WAW come back?
It seems from the threads on here that a WAH is more likely than a WAW to come back.
Anybody see any hope for the W and I reuniting after D? Really struggling for hope right now. I am resolved to allow her to put on her BGP. It's gonna be a challenge to let her know it's not punitive and still have the hope in the box & not throw away the key. What's the best way to let her know she's on her own w/out throwing it her face that she wanted this? And I'm sure she's gonna couch everything in terms that it's for the kids. Could really use some encouragement right now!
She really doesn't seem to care at all and doesn't seem to be struggle with the ending of our R.
just got back from Thanksgiving with the W,kids, and MIL. we met out a restaurant and had decent time. she sat by me and we laughed and flirted a little. when we spoke, we looked into each others eyes and leaned in close to hear each other. i said the prayer and thanked God for them and for the impt work that she (nurse practioner) and MIL does (teacher) and also prayed that we would be an example to the unsaved friends, acquaintances, and strangers that we met. we held hands during the prayer. i asked her if she wanted D to sit by her and she said "no you can sit by me". funny thing is D always wants to sit by her but i think D is trying to help me.
i was pretty charming told W and MIL that they both looked great and connected with MIL like never before. looked her in the eyes and listened to her. asked her about school and asked questions to show i was listening. W picked out my wine and we shared hers and mine. she talked about the needs for babysitting cause her schedule (sorry honey you are on your own). told her i knew she would figure it out (in a non-snarky supportive way). gave MIL a big hug and told her i hoped to see her before she flew back home and to call if she needed anything and it was great to see her. W gave me a big hug and presented her forehead so i could kiss it. she smiled real big and said that she's see me next week.
as they drove away, i only cried for a couple of minutes. i smiled and was pleasant without being needy or pushy. is there any hope for R after divorce or even a miracle to stop the D?
she did text me at 3a (both working nights) about a doll for D that she found. i did not reply. she brought it up today and i simply said i'd handle it.
i miss her so much. how is it possible for her not to miss me at all? does she have to date someone else to do that? i'm so confused and lost but i don't show her that.
i miss her so much. how is it possible for her not to miss me at all?
I wonder this, myself. I don't get how (in my sitch) you can spend 10 years with someone and not be fazed when they're no longer in your life.
I'd give my right arm to have BF tell me he misses me, even in some tiny capacity.
i took off the ring a couple of days ago as the papers were signed by me. my S noticed and was PISSED.
i've had the kids since Sun morning and won't give them up until wed morning. on Sun the W asked if i needed any clothes. told her no that if i needed something i would handle it. on Sun night she called and talked to S and i told him he could hang up when he was done. i didn't feel the need to talk to her. also on Sun, we went out and got a tree and lights. that was fun putting together just the three of us.
W did not schedule daycare for D so i'll have her all day and can't really do anything for me. that's fine she and i will find some fun activities! W offered to take her for a little while on those days. i told her not to worry about it.
on mon, W sent a text that she would drop off clothes on my porch and asked what time cause she didn't want to "interrupt" us. i told her i didn't care and i left her beer outside for her to pick up. she texted later that night to ask to speak to the kids. my phone was in another room charging and i didn't see the text until too late. there have been other nights that she didn't ask to speak to the kids. she said that she really wanted to and she'd try again tomorrow. when i saw the text, i sent back that my phone was charging and didn't hear it. told her that the kids missed and loved her. no response. whatever don't care. truth is, the kids didn't want to speak to her anyway (they told me). they feel that W is more concerned about her friends and work that she is them. and i thought i was the only one that felt that way.
this morning first thing, she sends me a text that she and i will probably need to talk this week. that she has a couple of frustrations bout the night calling. she has been decent about letting me talk to the kids at night (usually every other night) but she is sporadic and i never try to keep her from talking to the kids. really getting tired of her ascribing every negative thing to me!
when she calls and begins to tell me how i'm doing something wrong, i not gonna take the bait. i'll just tell her(calmly) that i'm tired of it and since i've been here i've been kind, loving, considerate, helpful, dependable, and per her words a good person. i don't deserve nor will i tolerate all the anger she directs towards me. ideas?
also, never realized how much i played, fiddled with my ring while i wore it. its really different now cause i do the same things but the ring ain't there. i was proud to be her H and proud of her. while i still love her, i accept that she is not the same person anymore. can she come back to being that same person? don't know, that will be her choice and journey. do i hope that for her? yep, she was an awesome woman. it's sad that my children recognize and comment on how different she is.
any ideas on how to deal with the upcoming lambasting by W?
thanks for the ideas folks. just got done texting with W. she said i can only have the kids for 3 days for a couple of weeks a month. 2 days the other weeks. get this, because she doesn't want to go without seeing them for 3 straight days. hello, this is what you wanted. that pisses me off. especially considering she usually gets a babysitter to watch them while she goes out one of those nights.
I seemed to have missed in your thread why she gets to set the possession schedule. Why is that?
the parenting plan that has been submitted to the state
well this will definitely help with detaching
had a moment of empathy today. i realize how bad i must have hurt her for her to totally turn her back on her values regarding the vows. she said while back that she never told me cause i couldn't/wouldn't change. well it's been six months and i've changed totally. this must be rough for her to see, but she's too proud/scared? to back down.
Bravo,
I spent the whole evening reading about your riveting sitch- both threads . Holy moly! What an ordeal. Your W doesn't know what she is passing up. You really are in the trenches and have handled it with grace and true grit. Early on you were posting without much response, and I was wondering why no one was taking notice,yet you persisted. That is even more impressive because you did a lot on your own. You really put your ego aside in the interests of the R . Now you are a hero to your children and survived the big D with your integrity intact. How many can say that they truly tried everything to save their M. I expect that you may be grieving and that is totally understandable. You are human. But recognize that there is meaning in your ordeal and it was not for naught. You seem to be a better person for all this and a real man. It is a shame that not everyone knows how to appreciate that.
I have such a long way to go in comparison,but I have learned so much from how you have and are conducting yourself. I know you love your xW, but I don't think you need her to feel whole again. I know you will find fulfillment in your new life without her, whether she ever comes back to her senses or not. Derive joy instead from your wonderful children and cherish every moment with them. One day you'll link back and smile at what a shining example you set in the face of adversity. You really took the high road in choosing to work on yourself and not be vindictive and self righteous.
You asked many times about WAW success stories. I would argue that yours is one. I think you just need to redefine what success means. It's like the wizard of Oz. The lion had courage all along and just didn't know it. In the same way,you have been successful all along. You were looking for external validation. To quote ericmsart: the star is inside of you.
Respect,
RAI
P.S. Loved the expression "unicorn farts". Had not heard that one before.
wow RAI, you must have me confused with someone else but i'll take it!
i will say that i have grown a bunch through this. would i have grown this much without going through this, don't know and it doesn't matter as this is my reality.
i am MUCH closer with my kids and i truly cherish every moment with them. i have tried to use myself as an example of what not to do with all my married friends and hold them accountable for their actions.
i hope and pray that the W will heal from the wounds that i have caused and someday forgive me. i hope also that she can work on herself and be able to realize that she is worth so much. my S and i will continue to pray for her. for myself, i will continue to love her and cherish the good times we had without wallowing in my pain (which is pretty difficult to do right now).
do i believe that we'll ever reconcile, not sure but probly not. however, i do not know what God's plans are for me/or us. i do not know what could be only what is. that is for Him to decide and for me to graciously accept.
i love you my Sweet Girl!!!