Previous Thread Morning all, the old thread locked so here we are with part 3 already, wow, I dont know if thats impressive or depressing. Would be nice to say by now everythings on the way up and relations are good but, nah.
House vetting went ok so should be moving in december, into an empty place, in time for christmas by myself for the first time in 15 years, no family decorating, no family tree, S and I will do some bits of course but, well, I cant say Im looking forward to anything but it being over.
Yesterday was a new low since all this started, see previous thread, we did tie it up in a text (sigh...) saying sh hopes she'll have more time today. W just doesnt see the issue, S has 90% of her time MIL and friends the other 10%. I cant afford to mind read but either she's just in full avoidance of the the whole emotional side of this (a BIG issue in our relationship anyway) which has been easy for her being away from it all from day 1 (living at MIL wont be easy but she doesnt have to face our life together every minute or split it apart in front of her eyes) or she's so cold toward me she doesnt think theres anything worth dealing with and I should just shut up and go away. Honestly, right now, I dont know.
Anyway following on from the chat Jim and I were having on going out alone, planning on going out Friday night. No real reason other than getting out of the house, I don't want to face trick or treaters not because Im an old grumpy boots but I'm excluded this year so I don't want to be reminded of what I cant have - think its a better plan to control my surroundings and go out somewhere I can be away from it all (as much as possible anyway)
Sat looks like I'm heading to my dads hopefully with S to surreptitiously pick up his birthday present (Dad cant really come here in its state of being ripped apart) may be picking S up from tennis, may decide not to meet up with W first this time if she's even there, on one hand it makes me feel hypocritical as I'm pushing to get away from texting / emailing but if its like last time she just wanted some toast and then my advice on what television to buy and any mention of anything else (credit cards on the account or anything else) led to her getting angry. On the other hand not sure how stable my PMA mask will be right now and any more coldness from her right now may tip me over the edge. Will see.
Sunday will be exercise and more splitting stuff up - likely the garage.
I remember when I looked forward to time away from work, now I still dont want to do it but hate not working as well, push myself to do my 180s and get out and exercise and interact and GAL but I cant say I feel the progress some of you guys do. I'm waiting for it to kick in and feel a sense of freedom and enthusiasm and fire for the future or some sense that W may be even vaguely considering a future together (and yes I know 3 1/2 months is probably way too early especially with W being at MIL for that time) - maybe being in the flat on the run up to holidays will make her think about it but given she booked her birthday up and "didn't see" a message from me regarding meeting for a drink or lunch I cant see much sign of it.
So I continue on the only thing I can do anything with, me. Unfortunately I just find myself increasingly fighting off feelings of why bother, I did get another counselling session which helped a little but even he was prompted to say moving is probably a strain I could of done without, cathartic or not.
Hey ho... get up, work, deal with flat, eat, go to bed, rinse, repeat and somewhere in there keep hoping I suppose.
Interesting(ish) day today. Estate agent contacted me to say that the house may be available earlier. I texted W to say that there may be an option if she can also move faster and indeed MIL can as well.
Importantly I said we can talk about this when we speak.
W then started to try to run through things on text but since we're meeting when I pick up S on saturday I've said we can talk then. I dont know if this boundry is me being petty or not but I really feel we need to start running through things in person, that W has got too - comfortable - proceeding by text and email and not feeling enough of whats happening.
I cant do what I so want to do, cant even suggest it, I cant sit down and talk through what it would take to put us back together, I can only control my interactions but I have to put a boundry in place, had two near miss arguments that I cant afford caused by misreading intent in texts and thats not counting the emotionally crippling effect it has being at the end of a cold message instead of a phone call.
Also I still love to hear her voice and see her, even if that's all I have right now.
Edz
Sorry for where you find yourself .
Don't give up mate
The sha is just up the road from me if you ever want a chat
South
Glad your going out - if it were to brum you'd find my W on the pull. \o/
In truth though her behaviour is making it easier for me as the more she behaves like this, the easier it is too detach. And that's what will help (I also found a good rant really helped)
I think that the face to face is a fair boundary to set especially if you think text is getting misconstrued but having said that it is much easier to control emotions by text as there is less pressure for a response.
So got the initial costings in for moving (just the house) without the removal costs month 1 will be £2360, ouch.
Can you hear the boing from my flexible friend, damn just got one of these things paid off, well at least 1000 of that is the first months rent in advance so can be paid off next month as I wont be paying for this place.
Still feeling low and sorry for myself today, just want my life back but as it was 3 years ago before all these issues started to build up. But, no, nothings going to change and this is what Im stuck with garbage as it is..
Divorce is an expensive business. Only a couple of months ago I was telling my W we couldn't afford a £3k holiday and here I am now taking on an extra £45k of debt and increasing my monthly outgoings by about £500. I sure wish I had picked the holiday....
Its garbage for a while but it will get better. Besides you don't want exactly like it was three years ago because you didn't know what you now know and so wouldn't have done any different.
Smooth waters don't make for skilled sailors
No you're right, 3 years ago but with the wake up call I suppose, both equally unachievable.
My main issue is I really have no idea where I stand, one minute Im getting jokey fun emails and texts, challenges on facebook and in person we're laughing and joking the next I'm completely blanked or getting the cold shoulder. I suppose I'm also waiting for the other shoe to drop. All along W has said no, she's not talking divorce but she's never said what she is talking.
I was always the emotional one in the relationship with her the cold one except when she felt like she needed to be reassured. I do sometimes wonder is she just worried what I'll do to myself (no, no chance of that really) if she flat out and said we're over and so she wants to be in here and me out before she drops that final nuke. Maybe she is just feeling conflicted and unsure and needs space, maybe there will be happiness and an abundance of happy endings at christmas but this is my life so I doubt it.
I dont know about the future, I dont look to it with confidence or vigour or anticipation or excitement just a dull aching feeling of loss and fear right now, fear for how its going to work logically and fear for facing it alone.
Not inspiring or supportive Im afraid, I dont know if DB is working for me or making it worse, if Id be more of a basket case or worse if I hadnt done it. Just a case of its something to hang my routines on right now which is better than rolling in a ball and crying my eyes out which seems the alternative right now.
Wow, what a downer!
You know having written that I do get that W is wanting to keep the best friends part of our relationship, sadly - as I told her - I can't do that, I've been smitten with her since we met, still am now and couldn't cope with always wanting a relationship we couldnt have, worse what if she gets into another relationship, no I can't go there and stay sane.
Edz
Sorry for where you find yourself .
Don't give up mate
The sha is just up the road from me if you ever want a chat
South
Thanks mate and thanks for previous offers too just wanted you to know not ignoring them just the thought of you meeting a 6'4 man who descends into either a blubbering mess or a depressive doesnt sound like something you'd find appealing just at the moment. I imagine like the other phases this will pass or something unexpected (and probably equally bad) will happen but right now Im trying to keep around people (GAL/180) but not too much having to deal with people 1:1 if that makes any sense at all?
Sorry this is rough. Its very easy for me to empathise as I'm going through the same (only not 6'4).
Do you really want a friend that treats you like this? That takes you for granted? That could hurt you and your S in this way? This is her choice and so she has to accept the consequences.
If you don't think you can be friends then don't. Marriage or co parents is the way I look at it - anything else is a LONG way down the road.
My W was my best friend but my friends comfort me when I'm down, they treat me with respect, they apologise if they hurt me and they most definitely do not try and take my kids away from me. She was my friend and I miss that but she isn't anymore.
What part of DBing isn't working for you? If you didn't what would you do different?
Or to phrase another way whether you save your marriage or move on you need to do the same things:
Detach so she doesn't control you
Get a life outside of your M
Take care of yourself
Be the best dad you can
Face your fears and take charge of them
Rebuild your self esteem and self worth
Understand and learn from your mistakes
Have some fun
So forget about the goal and the what its of the future just focus on doing the bits above today and plan what you're doing tomorrow
Sooooo much easier to say to someone else than do, I know.
Look after yourself, things will get better and us anonymous internet folk will do what we can to support you. You have a whole bunch of strangers that wish you well and want to help so if nothing else that shiuld help prove your worth.
Thanks Jim, right on all counts. W isnt accepting the consequences because so far, for her, there are none. Yes she's had to stay at her mums which is purgatory for any normal human being but she is never going to deal with her until her funeral (at which point I can research finding a mariarchi band) she's spent ever waking hour with S which is what shes wanted to do for the past 3 years when school wasnt in the way and she's not had to deal with anything else, car she just took so had her mobility, she has and is blessed by the bias of the family courts and knows it - complete control on when S comes and goes to me and the only way I can challenge any of it is to nuke the relationship myself and risk (really risk) the little I have left by her calling the shots on a divorce.
Does she want to divorce? She says no, does she really, who knows?
Do I *need* her in the codependant way I did? No
Do I want to share my life with her, miss her and love her still, abosultely.
So to your questions above on DB. So far I see nothing Divorce Busting about it (and yes Ive read both books and had my own councelling although there seems no access to coaches in the UK) W seems the same now as she did at the start, at least in talking to (or not) me. Someone else posted it seems more of a Separation / Divorce councelling and support service and that I can see. For me I think the forum has helped more than anything in the books although theyve been good roadmaps to ways to proceed rather than thrashing about on my own.
Im glad I found it and am still following it, if nothing else its helping me get in shape but for what I dont know. Certainly the getting a life outside your marriage is a resonant point, issue is I never really wanted one, not didnt need one, I was happy as a husband and father and Im not in my twenties I dont want that life. The relationship with my Son (as with South) is probably the best its been in years and Im grateful for that but its such a short window I have that that right now I dont know if its a huge improvement or just he's not around enough to see there are still problems, W doesnt seem that interested in exploring anything else although her point on the impact of the flat in turmoil is a good one. Theres still a huge double standard, what does she think will happen when she moves in and half the place is gone, all the tech and some of the memories he's known his whole life removed? I genuinely believe she doesnt "get" that S is going to be hurt, damaged and have to cope regardless of what anyone does or says because of this. I also believe that if/when he is she'll just blame me and disregard her actions.
When I move, yes its a nice place but again Im going to be left financially hurting with no appreciable freedom, no money to have much in the way of fun or rebuild. She will be less so having divested herself of a lot of debt, getting social support, reduced rent and sending S to a state school - unpicking everything we sacrificed so much for over the past 10 years and thats before the 15% of my salary she now gets monthly.
So right now my choices are all fairly grim and so is my future, I'll keep working on it. Doubtless my mood will lift some days and we'll see what the future holds.
To answer the big question do I want someone like that for a friend, hell no (censor will that go through, oooh interesting to see) do I want W even if she would behave like that. Now theres an interesting answer to think of myself, if we could work on it and see where we went from that point in a marriage yes, yes I would. As friends no, not because of those reasons though, simply because I could never see her as a friend ever and it would hurt every time I was with her knowing whats been lost.
And thanks to the rest of the internet folk too. You all are helping more than you know.
New email from W telling me she's taking S to play date then this prty so cant find time today to come round or talk. Thanks, next excuse coming in 3...2...1..
Just went back with fair enough, will see you tomorrow. Take care tonight at the party.
Sigh, thing is I know (not suspect, know) that a lot of the time she says these things she's not telling the truth. I caught her out on it several times when she's said she's out all day driving S here there and everywhere and then I've seen the car in MILs driveway (not spying its on the road to the supermarket) she wasnt anywhere like where she's said (believe nothing said half of whats done) I also know its not another man (at least not those times) as S has inadvertantly told me those days they were playing monopoly with MIL/FIl or he was just playing on W's phone while she slept / read kindle.
So again, I just dont know what she actually is doing or wants, I really dont think she does either.
Anyway another few hours and Im off out, was going to the cinema bust just looked at the listings,errrrrrrrr, ok going to be pot luck as nothing I'd like is on. Probably grab whatevers on next and a hot dog (live dangerously) and other cinema pathogens and just while away the evening in the dark..
I have to agree with you that I've found the advice and support here more directly useful than the books but the books helped.
And the get a life doesn't mean do stuff for the sake of doing it - its doing things that will make you happy but doesn't depend on someone else to make you happy.
My major GAL activities have been reading and building a better connection with existing F&F. They are turning into new activities and opportunities.
Edz
Fury is brilliant .
Have you considered going LRT with W .
If anything it would reduce contact which I do see as a source of your unhappiness .
I've had 2 months of no contact with W and in that time just 2 texts . If i do reply it's just a thanks or ok I keep it very brief .
But I feel so much better for not seeing hearing or having texts from her. I still think about her and possibly what I may do if she was to ask to come home but it becomes more and more less frequent as time goes on .
Funny I think I've read the parts dealing with GAL more than the 180s. Problem is not knowing what makes me happy any more. Yes some things I did/do make me happy like new technology but even if I had money I don't know it holds the appeal it did. My happy moments before this revolved around having fun at legoland with the family and getting drenched on the rides or watching movies together or a hundred other things with S and W.
Problem is she only sees the bad, forgets those or they never made her happy and she just didn't say. So how do I do the things that make me happy when I am barred from them? I can fill my time sure, I can get out and not sulk but really, truly get a life to be happy, I think I have to settle for accepting that right now that's not something in my power to do and I have to settle for taking care of myself and trying to be the best Dad I can and keeping the road smoothed and the door open in case W wants to come back. Dropping the rope is light years away for me, even if W did say she's done. I'm not going to be a negative influence or effect in her life (providing she doesnt become adversarial as I cant be the doormat any more and must protect what I have and what I can be for my Son) but I also cant easily drop the last third of my life, shrug and move on which is what she at least portrays even if she is not feeling.
It does make me feel better that you and South and others do seem to be getting further though, both because I truly want us all to be happy and have a great life and maybe it can happen to me at some point too (I must have read the divorces busted threads sooo many times by now) just right now I don't believe anything good will happen ever again which is just the depression phase talking I imagine and I just have to plug away day by day to get through it with the silent support of those who do care for me in real life and in here.
Edz
Fury is brilliant .
Have you considered going LRT with W .
If anything it would reduce contact which I do see as a source of your unhappiness .
I've had 2 months of no contact with W and in that time just 2 texts . If i do reply it's just a thanks or ok I keep it very brief .
But I feel so much better for not seeing hearing or having texts from her. I still think about her and possibly what I may do if she was to ask to come home but it becomes more and more less frequent as time goes on .
Hi South
yes I did consider it but W dominates and controls S's availability and time. I'd be seriously impacting my ability to see him as I know W would just clam up too and I would then be the bad guy in so far as "not wanting to see your son". Ultimately when I've moved I have to hope some of this will self-resolve if and when a schedule for seeing him is in place but even there she has some sort of cock eyed idea that she doesnt want to miss him every weekend and maybe we can slide days around with one week being a monday and another a sunday and....all sorts of other garbage that confuses the hell out of me never mind a 9/10 year old. I keep saying he needs consistancy and schedules but she just isnt listening right now.
Any wonder my mind is turning to rice pudding?
I know exactly what you mean but you had a life before. I miss my W but at least I see her and my kids everyday. No contact would be so painful because my feeling of helplessness would increase.
BUT I'm not helpless.
I hate that my W is dating and that she hates me and that she blames me for everything. I hate this hurts my kids. I hate that I know I let her down as a husband and myself as a man. I hate that my W is desperate to get as far away from me as possible as quickly as possible. I hate that she worked against me not with me. I hate the pain this causes everyone. I hate OM is damn ugly (he could at least be attractive).
I hate that I'm going to miss out on the life I wanted. I hate the way she has changed. I hate the effort she is making for OM abd her casual flings - effort she never made for me. I hate the connection she has with her poisonus friend. And I hate the fact that I know she will be happier because she can't have been anymore miserable.
But quite a lot of what I hate is jealousy
However...
I love that I can make plans to see friends without asking permission
I love that I can just do things with my kids when I have them
I love that I can see my family more
I love that I've finally told my dad what I've needed to for 30 years and we are closer than ever
I love that I have a whole new understanding of me and my behaviour
I love that I've learnt better ways to parent
I love that I'm learning new skills (empathy, LLs, assertiveness, having a spine etc.)
I love that I'm watching less TV and getting my fitness back
I love that I'm actually trying to make something positive from this
I love that there are strangers who will take the time to help and support me.
And there is part of me that loves the fact that when all is said and done I will be able to look my kids in the eye and genuinely know I tried.
Hi Jim
All excellent points and I wouldnt argue against any of them.
I think I just need to work out who I am now or at least can be, the man I was 15 years ago is plain gone, the man I have been since well the good version seems to have gone AWOL at some point and the man before BD date isnt required to come back ever. My 180 / post BD persona is a good one and has some far more positive features as well as being slimmer, healthier, more assertive and not a doormat and having a much better relationship with his S.
From there, I dont know.
I suppose, unlike some on here who've had a much, much, much worse time with their WASs I simply dont know what she wants now. She's not in a PA or EA that I have a shred of evidence for, she just hangs with S all day, every day, every week I dont have him and her fears over my relationship with him and - as misplaced as they seem to be - her fears over him being upset mean shes not opening up that access to me for regular times with me at home. Its that thats paralysing me and the main reason I agreed to move.
One way or another I think that will start things changing, I hope and prey they go the way I want them to but if they dont then at least I can start to rebuild from the total destruction and not be in a limbo state.
I hate OM is damn ugly (he could at least be attractive).
That made me laugh out load .
My W other man is not a good looker either and is such a pussy which I don't understand because I always thought she waned a man to protect and look after her .
Hi Jim
All excellent points and I wouldnt argue against any of them.
I think I just need to work out who I am now or at least can be, the man I was 15 years ago is plain gone, the man I have been since well the good version seems to have gone AWOL at some point and the man before BD date isnt required to come back ever. My 180 / post BD persona is a good one and has some far more positive features as well as being slimmer, healthier, more assertive and not a doormat and having a much better relationship with his S.
From there, I dont know.
I suppose, unlike some on here who've had a much, much, much worse time with their WASs I simply dont know what she wants now. She's not in a PA or EA that I have a shred of evidence for, she just hangs with S all day, every day, every week I dont have him and her fears over my relationship with him and - as misplaced as they seem to be - her fears over him being upset mean shes not opening up that access to me for regular times with me at home. Its that thats paralysing me and the main reason I agreed to move.
One way or another I think that will start things changing, I hope and prey they go the way I want them to but if they dont then at least I can start to rebuild from the total destruction and not be in a limbo state.
Edz
Someone said to me in the early days after BD that I must be such a kind caring man and that I shouldn't let what happened change me . And it has stuck in my mind and all though there is a little bit of change I'm still that person .
You just need to find him Edz
Thanks South
I know some of him is in here but its the same part that has to hide or at least take a back seat when all this is going on to protect himself and leave the stronger parts to deal with it.
I also fear that until I know where W wants to go he will be wary of resurfacing for fear of not being able to cope with yet more abandonment or rejection. He will though, when I'm alone and feeling lonely and in the good times when I have S with me.
Well took myself out, didnt go to the cinema since nothing vaguely interesting was on at the time I got there (got delayed as there was a big traffic crash on the route) decided to go to Pizza Express had a nice calzone, single beer and cheesecake/coffee brought the kindle along so kept myself occupied.
Still nothing on the cinema (showing time wise so gave up) went and did the shopping for the next few days, also picked up a card and a few small bits for her day (nothing overtly romantic just a couple of books, small gin & tonic and peanut butter cups & a card (all things I know she's always loved but nothing thats expensive or overly gestural).
So back now, will be meeting up with W for coffee tomorrow while S plays tennis then heading off to my dads.
Anyhoo back now, big bang theory then time for bed said florence.
Just a quick update.
Saturday morning met up with W and we spoke about the accelerated time frame and other bits, she wants me to leave my ps3 for S so his friends can play etc, I said no to that shes welcome to pay half and i'll pick up a slim so he has one at both places but not reducing what he can do with me to salve her conscience. I also - lightly - went into her accepting some consequences which she is presently pushing back on me, not really my issue she cant build up her finances and pay her credit card, not an excuse to leave it draining my account - we're not talking pennies here either.
We ended up talking about what had gone wrong in our M - wont go into that theres lots I've already posted - could see she was looking emotional so backed off. She's course set for this move to the flat although S has been working on both of us to move to the new house together. I'd love that but nothing I can say or do is going to make it happen, I've accepted its going to be me moving there, S visiting and likely, to quote the immortal MUD, lonely this christmas.
Made a quick call to the estate agents to confirm moving up the timeframe then took S down to Dads and we hung down there for the afternoon and picked up S's present bag which I dropped off at MILs when I dropped son off (of course he cant come to the flat at the moment) sat alone last night watched some tv and messed with the PC's and game box. W started texting again sending me links for TVs she's thinking of getting when she moves in. Even my dad was flabbergasted at her lack of thinking on money but as I said to him, what - exactly - can I do? She knows the door is open, the road paved, I've been open and accepted my issues and she knows my counselling has been great for me and can see my relationship with S is better than ever, the new place is plenty big enough and we could all have a much better start and work on things. There's the slight issue that, right now, she doesn't want that which means it isn't going to happen.
So today picked S up at 9 and we went swimming (Sorry South no records broken today more fun in the pool although got S to do 10 lengths in payment for a biscuit at the coffee shop - well it turned out to be an eclair), was going to call W to let her know when I got a couple of delayed texts (pone was off while in the locker) saying did I want to keep him a while while she went out for coffee with a friend as MIL/FIL were too busy as they were going to go to get groceries (their normal helpful selves for W when she needs something) well was going to take him for a treat at the coffee shop and a look around the game store anyway (so he can show me the next game he wants for christmas (another reason not to give in on the ps3 or then I'll hear its too difficult to unwire it at christmas and he can only play his game at the flat - I just know that would happen) so called her - got her voicemail but then she called back - and said yes.
No later had we taken a look around the gameshop and sat in the cafe than my phone rang and W was saying she was heading back to MILs now so drop him as soon as we're done. Usual she's no longer busy so please give him back....now.
So played along, dropped him back and again neither of us wanted him to go, explained to him this is short term and once I've moved he can stay with me a couple of times a week - which WILL happen as I'm not taking any more garbage on this once W is out of MILs place.
So now, had a quick start at going through garage contents but MIL/FIL have stuck their garbage in there and its throwing it down making it difficult, I can see most of my stuff is already boxed to go, some mixed stuff but I cant split it in the rain, A couple of nice mirrors that belonged to my mum and some stuff I can get rid of.
So waiting for 6 to cook dinner, messing with PCs and writing lists of moving things to do this week. Feeling low, low, low (or whatever's below low) and overwhelmingly lonely, the weather is too bad to really walk anywhere and although even with the risk of alcohol I did consider going to the pub for surrounding company I looked in there and it seems to be full of couples and families so I decided against it. Money is too tight to do anything else and I cant have S this afternoon (which is definitely a control thing - S said he has nothing to do today so will likely try and play Minecraft till MIL sticks her oar in again).
Ho hum, about 19 days to go till the move and only 60 days until the damned holiday season is over and the pain will only be unmanageable and not torturous.
Very tough time for you. You seem to be doing the best you can and that's all you can do. Take care
Thanks rd good to get any feedback if Im doing right or wrong, so difficult to tell this deeply enmeshed in it all.
Anyone with a similar situation, if such a person exists, tell me one thing, how do you carry on with these feelings? It is just so painful, it hurts to my bones and deeper and I just don't know how to keep going through the motions, sure I can keep up the gal and 180 and even the pma in front of W but here, on my own, how do I just keep going?
Difficult to know exactly what to suggest but reading your update it does look like you are ceding too much power to your W and in turn your MIL. What your W does with your S is her issue.
Once she texted you that your S could stay with you then you could have simple said 'OK I'll bring him back at 1600' for example then ignored your phone and had a nice day with your S.
Hope your doing ok in yourself though.
Thanks, thats a good point. You are right, I am giving her a lot of leeway because of the way she felt I was upsetting, distancing and not supporting S in the past few years. From her conversations I think its a case similar to those mentioned in the books, a month for each year of a problem, she has to trust me with him (not in an endangering him way - never anything like that - just in a his continuing happiness and the best relationship with me. This was the core of the issue my constant distancing and withdrawl from the world and the effect on him and to a lesser degree w.
So theres that and then the balancing that theres a chance if I push too hard I dont exactly hold a lot of cards at the moment and theres not a lot - non legal - I could do.
My dad raised a similar point but, right now, I'm trying to show I dont have to have my own way all the time and I respect her decisions and space.
Is this right, I have absolutely no idea
I'm still guessing so I can only give my limited opinion.
The best way to show you can be trusted with your son is to maximise your opportunities with him. Have fun, make sure he has fun. When I was growing up my dad bought me loads of stuff but all I ever wanted was for him to play/do something, anything with me. Thats not expensive its quality time (my LL by the way - actually I think there is a LL For kids which might be worth a look)
Yes respect her space but also respect your own. I may have missed it but is there something legal already? UK law is much more balanced these days so don't assume you have no recourse.
Hi Jim
exactly right, I was very much in the time starving bracket, I'll do anything to spend time now, meals, arcade or just at the park with the baseball glove. W is starting to see it but its slow.
Nothing legal as yet, Im afraid to go there until I know, until she knows even, what she wants to do next. If it isnt reconcilation then if I need to I'll be looking at the options including the CMS (CSA replacement) full documentation.
If you haven't find a family law solicitor. Quite a few will do a free initial consultation so at least you get a better idea of where you stand.
Hi Jim
Had a meeting with CAB who outlined possible options open to me. Next steps are agreed custody / visitation I know with things at the mo - W would not entertain a shared custody she has said to me S stays with her. So for now this seems to be my best course of action especially when W is away from MIL in a couple of weeks time.
Im not interested in figting with W or going legal and I dont think she is either right now, MIL is an unstable influence who can and has thrown everything away rather than lose so getting W time away from her to decide what she wants and time to listen to her thoughts certainly seems the best way forward - for now at least.
Ultimately I want us all together or as close to that as is possible.
So the kids thing is important. You need to protect your rights and access.
The courts don't tend to get involved and then they will do what's in the best interest of the child and unless one of the parents is unfit that will usually mean both have access.
I drew up an agreement with my wife. We sat down and negotiated - if you will struggle with this then you need a neutral 3rd party. In your situation I'd suggest that S spends every other weekend with you (Fri eve to sun eve). And that you have access one evening a week as a minimum. But that's entirely up to you.
Sorry don't mean to overbear on this but the access to your S clearly bothers you and I know how I would feel. Don't lose your rights and access because you want to save your M - it might not be saved then you'd have neither.
I really hope you do get the future you want though
Thanks.
W and I have spoken about all this in case any thinks otherwise, I think the above is the absolute minimum she'd expect anyway, just she wouldnt go for a 50/50 style arrangement. Depending on how the next 3 months go (unrealistic to think anything will change before Christmas) and if W doesnt want to make any reconciliation attempt I think it will be time to get things on a formal basis (not heading for D specifically, just making sure we all know how things are set up).
I'm tensing myself for a bad couple of months anyway, not just because of birthday / christmases but also because I've stopped these direct debits (because I cant afford them and pay for this house and all the costs) I've told W I wont be paying these but I know she still wont action any changes and will flip out when they contact her.
Oh for a time machine!
Indeed. I think you'd get a lot of takers for the time machine.
Its worth getting it on an written basis even if not formal - and probably before financial changes bite.
Just a thought but could you set your S up with minecraft at MILs? You could then run a server and work on something in minecraft jointly - you could have time with your S even when you're apart.
Indeed. I think you'd get a lot of takers for the time machine.
Its worth getting it on an written basis even if not formal - and probably before financial changes bite.
Just a thought but could you set your S up with minecraft at MILs? You could then run a server and work on something in minecraft jointly - you could have time with your S even when you're apart.
Yup suggested this and got a straight push back that going legal would probably make things costly for me, this was a while back (keep having to remind myself we're "only" 3 months in though) and W seems less angry at me now but who knows. Was about the time W was pushing for a direct transfer for money for S and I was suggesting she just spend as needed (see part one of my thread)
S is using Minecraft at MILs and has suggested to me a server, only reason I havent done that yet is the pending move and internet / server chaos. I run enough tech and VM servers here that once set up I can easily put a new one in and set up a private server so once all the moving has finished I'll make it a project and then he and I can get building
The fibre at the new house (stuck on congested Sky ADSL here following be being bought out
) will make that a lot easier to accomplish
Ive said it before but W seems conflicted and doesnt show any sign of knowing what she wants really beyond being in the flat with "space" to make her own decisions - getting out of MILs place. Its whats leaving me so frustrated as without knowing what she actually wants - she seems to bounce between it all being over and not - I can only plan on being alone and moving on but then I feel overwhelmingly lonely and her indecision makes me think it might work out.
As I say needs a few months with her away from MIL before the truth will really out.
All that being said though, doesnt change the emptiness I feel in my life right now. Just seems a never ending cycle of work, tasks to do to get the move accomplished, bad news, an all too brief visit with S and possibly a meet up with W then sleeping and repeat. I know things will change (for the better is a different matter) but right now it all seems very bleak from my perspective.
I do acknowledge all those here who've had it much worse though, whether its just I don't know where I stand, the season, the dark wet winter we seem to be heading into a combination of the above or me just having less resolve to overcome it all I'm not sure.
I keep telling myself, this will not be the state of my life this time next year, it helps a little but it doesn't change anything.
The only positive thing I heard that buoyed me somewhat was my W saying on Saturday that she and S had seen this behaviour for "years" and she needs to balance that against how I am now, I can understand that, it's the easiest thing in the world to say you've changed, much harder to show it's actually true (as the books and Sandi's rules repeat!)
Sounds like she doesn't know what she wants so you've got no chance of figuring that one out. Focus on you is all I can say.
Written doesn't have to mean legal. Mine is just a word doc that we discussed then I drew up and emailed to her. My L said that's fine and would be a good start if it ever went to court.
Yup I've done the same a couple of times, once for what we were doing finanancially which she delayed as she was housesitting, then because she was busy with S then because .... she didnt want to deal with it and its still up in the air, once for visiting S which she wouldnt even discuss and once for whats going and staying when I move which i forced the issue on by emailing her saying this is what im doing tell me if you disagree which she promptly did.
From talking I take away she's in self imposed limbo until she leaves her mothers, she knows she wants time alone, she is set on that before anything else. Money, practicalities and anyones feelings except hers are all being ignored until that happens.
S tells her he doesnt want this and its me telling him to say that (its the opposite Ive asked him to go easy on her and not blame her and that we both love him regardless of what happens) I tell her, well, all the stuf I've said without violating the 37 rules and I just get the same answer she needs to get away from being told what to do and think (which hasnt been by me in the past 15 years under any circumstance, I've been guilty of the opposite - withdrawing due to being constantly pushed away in our marriage and feeling unloved) but I think its her against the world right now until she's alone.
As you say I stand no chance of figuring it out and beyond making sure my circumstances dont get crashed by it and that S is ok and, preferably, that theres a way back (keeping it paved) I have to just let her get on.
I have concerns as she's said when she did have time when housesitting in august (see first thread) MIL followed her to the place she was housesitting and stayed the night which doesnt sound to me like she's going to get space "alone" especially as MIL owns the place, Id think given the plumbing, electrical and mould issues here and the lack of, well, me to fix anything she'll be onto them to fix things and MIL will be just as present. Additionally she said when she did have time alone in august she just withdrew and slept a lot with S watching TV / on the laptop / phone games.
As you and I have said nothing I can do except be the lighthouse in this, up to her whether she wants to head for the dock or the rocks, kills me to be unable to help bring her home though.
I'm a solutions man and so there is little that bothers me more than feeling helpless (not in control) but that's what we have to do because in this circumstance helping is controlling.
Doesn't stop it hurting and being rubbish though.
The positive that I'm trying to hang on to is that actually I was pretty unhappy as well, constant rejection hurts and I was dissatisfied about a lot of things. These things are going to get resolved now one way or another and that's a good thing.
Well W called me while I was driving back from the shops, as was to be expected she is too busy for lunch or breakfast tomorrow on her birthday. To be expected but hurts like hell, first time in 15 years I wont see her on it.
Only thing she wanted to discuss was dates for getting into the flat and had I arranged for it to be cleaned on exit before her mum kicks off on it.
Kept it together just although my voice was cracking toward the end of the call. Emailed her this evening to wish her a happy birthday for tomorrow and a separate one with dull stuff on the flat.
I'm in pieces tonight. I've turned the phone off because I cant face speaking to anyone. I think, for me, this has all failed. May just be too early but I cant see her turning around from this full sail especially with her mother gunning for me and her inability to ever go against her mothers wishes.
Maybe things will improve, if so I'l be back. For now I dont know I'll consider it but if I dont post again thanks for all of those of you who posted replies to help me, I dont know where I go now, I'll move, I have to, I wish I didnt have to and could just curl in a ball and wish the world away. I've truly had enough now.
Thanks all.
Calmed down somewhat. I'll report back tomorrow.
Well its W's birthday. No idea what she's doing or where. No contact today although she did send me some humorous links late last night. Wished her a happy birthday again. Nothing since.
Low doesn't describe me today. Got up and started sorting things but gave up. Spent the rest of today in bed as i just couldn't find the enthusiasm to do anything else.
Probably snap out of it tomorrow at least until sons birthday mine and the godfather of depressive days over Christmas.
Re read detachment but realised some part of me is fighting the whole thing.
Anyway nothing else going on here lots i should be doing but today is a curl in a ball day, first since August but i can't deal with it all today...money..Being blanked...house move. ..mil and her demands on the flat.....Being away from son ... too much right now. I admire all you people who take it in your stride I'm feeling very much like everything's ending not a new beginning.
No idea what's next but it's getting harder to believe it will be anything good right now.
Its OK to have a curl in a ball moment. Its a hard situation and you're going through a lot. sometimes we all just need to adopt that protective position.
What can you do for you that would make you feel a bit less vulnerable?
Hi Jim
no idea really can't tackle money further really. Moving is a nightmare but is in progress. Can't go much less contact without hurting contact with s.
Money is to tight to get away and all the friends in have left who haven't bailed with w are married so I'm pretty much isolated.
Not great and not too sure on what comes next.
I guess I was thinking smaller and more immediate. Something to come out of your ball for rather than solve the big stuff.
Today's a milestone day and so its fine to feel this all more. Today is a cut yourself some slack day - its hard work, but you've earned a tea break (we are British after all)
My mates are all married or engaged and actually their wives have been brilliant support for me. So Id be willing to bet your not as isolated as you feel.
I will unfurl a bit for dinner have a shower cook a meal and raise a glass to w. Friends were mostly made through w which has left me lost
Why don't you raise a glass to yourself.
Anywhere you can go this evening just to distract yourself?
Not this month money's just too tight sadly.
There's a lot of stuff you can do out and about without money. Get creative.
Edz,
I find things like housework and gardening help me when I start thinking about things to much .
Mind you if I carry on won't have much garden left lol.
Like jim said raise a glass to yourself . You've come this far .
Don't give up on yourself mate .
My trial at the moment is I keep doing washing and the putting it out to discover it's gonna rain . Glad I bought a tumble dryer.
South
Thanks guys. There's lots I could do but I'm stuck in the mental rut of doing it "without her".
I'm normally house proud but since I'm ripping it apart no point. Too early to get going on the new place too.
Just having trouble getting the shape of my future alone right now. Can't count on w returning can't start the journey toward acceptance and dating as she hasn't said she's definitely over and limbo is an anathema to my solution personality.
Dinner is on, I'll either have a movie night and relax my normal junk food munching rules for the evening or may see if I can get any further in Borderlands (unlikely)
What do you guys do about feeling lonely, Im ok when I have my S around but thats a rarity although it should be less so when Im at the new place
I read a book or do some gardening ,walk the dogs.
Wash the car , go to the ark for a tea, play battlefield 4 on my ps4, go to my mums and dads for a tea and chat , play candy crush, do some housework,watch a comedy ,
What is a good book that I'm reading at the moment is total recall Arnold swarzeneggars life story .
I do feel lonely when the kids are at school or college but quickly find something to do so it doesn't overwhelm me .
Bit different for me. We still live in the same house so generally I have to deal with seething resentment.
That cant be easy Jim. Just the loneliness at the moment but who knows what comes next.
I still get the loneliness but not to the sane extent. Its something I'm dreading.
I think you just need to try and make connection wherever you can. Ive always been terrible at it so I don't think I'm a good source of advice here.
The last new friend I made was my W 7 years ago. That's quite lame.
And to me dreadfully familiar mate.
I'm doing a spectacular job if cheering you up aren't I.
OK so instead I'll try my D3s favourite joke.
Where do fish keep their money?
In a river bank!
(Yes I did get more lame)
very good, same level of jokes as my sons (9)
You're all doing a good job of keeping me sane which is the best I can hope for right now guys..
Cheering me up is probably only something I can do (well W could but thats not too likely!)
I feel I have to say that only we can make ourselves happy and equally only we can make ourselves unhappy.
I know its true but doesn't feel it yet. It will do one day though.
Sane is a start at least.
My biggest issue is Im not entirely sure how to make myself happier.
Making myself unhappy is an interesting idea, theres certanly an element of being together so long and then suddenly not being and it not being right anymore. Im not gregarious though so not a lot I can do, I go out by myself fine, happy to read in resteraunts etc but I miss my W for company, talking as well as someone to be there especially as the nights get colder and draw in. Not sure what to do about that really.
Thats what GAL is for - your not sure so try stuff till you find something that makes you happier.
But yes I entirely believe we make ourselves unhappy. When we put too much emphasis on someone else to make us happy, when we focus on what we've lost rather than what we have, when we have expectations that don't get met.
But if that's true then the reverse must also be true.
It sounds like you're hurting and really miss your W but that's normal so don't make it worse by beating yourself up about it. Just recognise how you feel and be OK with that.
I have no idea if any if this helps
Empathy, compassion and supportive is kind if new for me.
Well got through the evening with the movie Oblivion and some You Tube, nothing from W. Maybe she's still out with her friend, dont know. I know I miss her and I keep catching myself collapsing in that ball again, time for bed said Florence, I hope against hope tomorrow is better.
Night guys
Edz.
Yesterday is in the past ok . Forget it and start today happy .
I try and go for a walk every morning , I have an excuse a 9 stone baby dog .
I do find that routine helps a lot .
You've got a cat haven't you well maybe every morning give her/him a brush or just play with the cat . Not saying you don't already .
South
Thanks South
Not a bad plan actually, this morning was a keep hitting the snooze button till I absolutely had to get up as I didnt sleep well. But I think I'll try that from tomorrow.
Feel, unsettled today but not as bad as yesterday. At least at the moment.
Then wife texted me and I'm back where I was, she thanked me for her presents and commented that she didnt even know one of the books I got her was out yet (always knew what she would like book wise) but she didnt answer anything connected to the card, sicne our last anniversary card I found in the recycling the next morning I dont have hopes for my card even being opened sadly. Not all that was said but then she's laser focussed on when am i going from the flat.
Dont know why such a small message brings me down so quickly but it does, suppose when I hear nothing my mind runs on hope and then when she contacts me it gets dragged down to earth again. All part of detatchment, sadly its rather apparent how much I seem to suck at it!
Just had a long IM chat with a mate of mine, got to unload, feel a little better for that.
Thats good. Unloading makes me feel better.
I can't remember do you have an IC?
Hi Jim I have had counselling through my health plan and outside that as well. Direct DB councellor no. Only real reason Ive got this far, cant praise AXA enough really in the help they offered me.
I don't know if it's an option for you but I'm still seeing my IC regularly (not DB coach) just to unload and help me understand what I'm feeling. I find it really helps.
But I get what you say about the small message. I'd rather my W didn't get me a birthday card than the cold impersonal one she did get. Its why some people prefer no contact.
Im really dreading my birthday, in some ways more than christmas. If the dates work out I'll be in my new place but then what? If W doesnt want to come to dinner or S isnt available I dont want to run back home to my dad (difference between W and I, I care for my family but I dont consider running home particularly a great idea at this point in my life).
I got W a card - nicely written not too mushy but reinforcing that she is missed I am honored by the 15 years we were together and that I could call her wife and hoping we can work a way back together in the future and leaving it at that - too mushy? Maybe, I dont think it was needy or pushing my agenda just being honest and it may be the last year I get to call her wife for all I know. Will she send me a card, well I've had 5 years of not particularly romantic cards anyway (she's always been the colder one in our relationship anyway) I'll have a nice card from S hopefully (Im expecting one anyway!) and from my Dad and family, would be nice to not be alone though and I dont have any close friends who will be around to come over / out so whatever else would happen I'd have to set up.
Been reading on planning for first christmases alone, lots of advice on planning to avoid voids in the day and descending into dispair. One reason Im trying to get wife to commit to what we're doing now before MIL gets her cold claws in to dominate christmas again.
Cant presently afford IC all the time, had 3 months or so regular visits and have paid to go myself a couple of times, with the move and other costs cant afford it this month but when ive moved and registered at the doctors may try to get on to get some through the NHS if possible.
Quick addendum when I say getting wife to decide I mean on schedules / son not on coming back to the marriage!!!
Don't think of it as running home. I'm sending some quality time with my dad - something that was missing from my childhood. I'm bonding with him while he is still here.
You got your W a card for your birthday? Or am I misunderstanding?
Take the lead on Christmas if you can. Say how you think it should work So you get what works for you.
You should be able to get some help through your GP. Equally there are some organisations that help with this stuff. Also have you tried the Samaritans? There be a local branch to you or there is an anonymous number. Its a really good charity that helps a lot of people.
Ha! no I got her a card for her bithday just gone (gave her a present bag and card on saturday)
I get your idea on family, my dad and I have had our ups and downs, best we've been really at the moment. I'll be back there before christmas though.
Spoke to the samaritans the first week after W went when I was the darkest. They were great and I'd advise anyone to speak to them who is feeling depressed in any way. Donated to them a few weeks later as well.
Well that's better. You had me worried.
The Samaritans can probably still help you if your having a really low day.
And I know IC isn't cheap but if you can it might be really good for days you know are going to be a trigger. I'm struggling with free options - I think just make sure you have a plan for your BDay.
My wedding anniversary is coming up but I'm going to be so tired that day I think I'll be fine.
W texted me to complain my Dad hadnt sent her a card and chasing me on moving dates.
Pointed out he, as all of us, are confused as to where she wants, needs, to be and he was trying not to offend.
I agreed its not nice but until she comes to a conclusion on what she wants we are all in a state of confusion as to how to proceed. I have no intention of not sending her a card but I dont believe I'll get a card from her mum either.
She replied my relationship with her mother is hardly the same.
Needed to stop the back and forth and this was starting to hurt me so responded that wasnt my intention, tried to point out this is a consequence of her not being able to tell us all what she wants and being vague on the reason she needs to be at the flat alone - its changed many times - I also commented that it was probably the nature of text and this is why I want to talk rather than text or email but she sounds distant and angry today.
One final reply saying she's not angry "with anyone..." just said that was good and I hoped she can come over sunday to run through furniture thats staying / going - phone / adsl contract decisions (is she going to sign up to one of these for a year and pay a fee if she ends early or keep the current ones and take over payments) reiterated its too much information for text and hope to see her sunday and that we can always retire to the pub to discuss things (keeping it neutral) reminded her both her and S are missed and left it at that.
Well had a quick chat with W this evening, she's off out with her friend from work this evening, she's coming round on sunday to discuss furniture after I again sent a list today. I'd had a text from BT saying someone was trying to take the line over, normally thats ok but I've had adsl lost on lines before due to bt changeovers, having spoken to W she's also planning on using Sky so bt is pointless as it will be LLU unbundled.
I appreciate she's trying to get organised but I did ask her to talk to me on Sunday sigh...
Anyway will call BT tomorrow and cancel the request. I was in quite a good mood as I sorted a lot out today for work and in planning for the house but now I cant stop myself from thinking that means she's in it for the long haul as she's signing up for year long contracts. Makes me wonder how honest she's being with saying she's not decided what she wants and how much its about just getting me to move away quietly. Ultimately Im moving anyway for my own sake and to set myself up for son but if thats the case I'll be extremely upset with her not just telling me that.
I suppose we shall just have to see and see what she says on sunday!
While I remember what are you guys and gals thoughts on taking off a ring? W hasnt been wearing hers but that wasnt unusual as she'd take it off and forget even when it was really good times, she was only really mad about them when we first got engaged and married a very long time ago.
In my case I have literally had mine on for about 8 years so much so my hand has changed shape (and got a little fatter it must be said) so I'll need to use the elastic cord trick to get it off anyway or do I just wait.
Feeling very confused right now and W confuses me by behaving as she is now but when I discuss taking my ring off (came about when I commented on hers a couple of weeks back) she says no theres no need to now and then she also reacts as she did when my dad didnt send her a birthday card.
Arghh!!!!!!!!
Spoke to BT today, line wont be impacted until after I leave so thats ok. Nothing from W today so imagine it will be tomorrow when I speak to her picking up S.
Trying to detatch myself to the point when, as I think is likely, after she moves in she lets me know she was just trying to stop everyone being hurt and she doesnt want to come back. Before anyone shouts mind reading, she has form on trying to stop other people being hurt by simply not telling them the truth as per her original plan to wait till I was at the other end of the country and move out without telling me.
Have a horrible feeling all this has been to re-engineer the mistake she made when she moved to her mums which she said was a huge mistake and finangle me out so she can be back.
Still dont understand how she will work the finances (as I'll no doubt be told - I cant worry about those). If she changes her mind in under a year - to move to me or elsewhere - she's going to get about £500 in contract ending bills at this rate so cant help but feel deflated as chances of anything positive happening between us seem even less likely by the day.
Also despair at the sheer amount of work I still have to do to move but cant be there organising that and be working which W doesnt grasp as she hasnt been "at work" except to go in and see if they can change her hours, since about may.
Been invited to a fireworks night by an old mate who I worked with back in 2007-2008 may trundle along with her tomorrow night (nothing between us now or likely - just friends)
Well, sitting in the middle of the disaster zone that is the part packed flat contents. Sure in 3-4 weeks it'll all be done but right now theres a very very very long list of things I need to do. My weather station says -2 out there and in this poorly maintained place my very cold nose concurs!
Of course I am too mean and money concious to turn on the heating!!!
Lonely - empty feeling in my stomach somewhere - but coping, thanks South I have a cat here whos not madly keen but putting up with being stroked - for now....
Hi Edz, hope you're doing OK in your disaster zone.
-2, my car says 6 so there must be some regional variation.
You too money concious for a blanket? Your cat will thank you
I imagine it must be hard being surrounded by stuff like that but remember that moving has its upsides. Try and focus on those.
Hi Jim
Not too bad, feel like a melange of emotions this evening, mostly I want to get into a stable state. Nice throw over me at the moment btw but I have the only cat who hates being on blankets, she paddles the duvet time to time but isnt a fan. Mostly likes to just "be near" when it gets cold!
Temps up to 6 here now, think it may have been the freezing rain/sleety stuff and the wind chilling it down out there.
If its like this tomorrow Im staying in with a movie and packing not standing in a field, free sausage in a bun (not a hot dog - these are the proper ones) or not!
There are times British weather is just unpleasant. Autumn I think we call it.....
winter, spring, some of the summer........
Had a good day with S
Went met up with W and S this morning at the cafe as S didnt want to play tennis and we all had toasted teacakes. W still very quiet with me but not so physically hostile muscle memory touched her hand and she didnt draw it away (still not wearing her rings but ive spoken about that before) interestingly she mentioned shes having a bed delivered here in a week or so but is only getting a double (we have a king) as she's moving into what was my office and moving S into our old room but she said Sam can have it later anyway. Not sure what to make of that if anything or why she said it to me. I had said I was keen not to double up on too much in case we do get back together as we'd have a load of stuff to store, dump or sell so seemed interesting but nothing to hang my hat on.
When we finished S and I nosed around the shops at Skylanders, games, consoles and generally then found somewhere selling removal boxes so I could pack up my DVDs tonight and then started to look at homeware shops as the rain was chucking it down. We are starting to work out what he'd like in his room and whether he wants a more "grown up" style room with a futon and more a lounge of his own that a small boys room (w always hated this idea since she sees him as her baby, he's my baby too but he's 10 now and I want to give him a space he can grow in) we failed utterly to find anywhere that had futons (so I can show him that they are low on the floor when used - he has asthma so this may be something he wants to avoid but we'll see). We had lunch, went to toys'r'us after him saying he definitely knew he wasnt getting anything, where he negotiated another skylander to add to his birthday list as its an exclusive he's been after and it was on sale..of course I folded..on the condition I keep it till his birthday of course.
We had a drive-by the new place so I could show him, he commented on the fact the surrounding area is a bit "built up" wit which made me laugh as he's been in leafy suburb areas for a while now and hasnt really lived in a "cityscape" since he was about 5, however he liked the side road the house is in and said it looks great and that I picked well so thats praise indeed. He said he wants to live there instead of the flat, didnt do much on that comment except reinforced mummy's time is important too and she wants to be with him as much as I do - cant be seen to not do that and he's not a game piece, I do of course actually want him all the time (and his mother too but this wasnt the time to say that).
Dropped him off after 7 hours together today (ran to my schedule and just texted W 15 minutes or so before I took him back, he didnt want to go but didnt cry this week which was good since it didnt set me off).
So will have a small dinner in a while (was a mcdonalds at lunchtime and no swimming tomorrow as - finally - W is coming round to run through furniture). Also I'll get my exercise finishing going through the garage / cupboards tomorrow anyway! Less than two weeks to the move now....Eek!
S not Sam, thats typing on a phone for you...
Course S's comments have now set me worrying about the house's location..should I have gone for less in a more expensive area? Of course this was all done at breakneck speed so wasnt exactly meticulous selection except looking at postcode, school, crime figures, house quality, parking, utilities, broadband, TV availability, storage, white goods, pets.....
Packed up 4 boxes full of DVDs...and have another boxload with no boxes to put them in unless I use one of the larger ones. Darn.
Glad to hear you had a good day with son.
Funny how your W would pick layouts of rooms etc for your S. Mine was the same even down to colour of paint and wall paper even if kids didn't like it .
Sounds like a really positive day with your S
Its standard fare I think. My W picked my D's room based on what she (W) and MIL like. I did mention that's not what D3 likes but was ignored. Changing it when W moves out...
Well after a good day yesterday with S, today with W was predictably stressful and depressing. It's always good to see, W, I do still love her after all, but since her intention here is/was just moving on the moving me out and her into this flat it wasn't great.
She turned up and firstly said did I have anything to eat (since apparently M isn't feeding her - joke, I think) So cooked her eggs on toast and fresh coffee. We had a chat but it was soon apparent she didn't really want to talk about M or anything bar things relating to the moving. We ran through the furniture, couple of things I'm now taking which I was leaving, couple of things I was going to take which she asked could she keep here, nothing particularly controversial.
While she was here I asked her to split the vinyl collection as, after doing the cds, I couldn't face it so thought she could do it which she did, will double check it to make sure she hasn't got any of mine - not because of trust but because we both had a couple of duplicate albums so she may have taken both by mistake.
Finished packing the DVDs and some other bits today. That's where the good stuff ended as W was giving me a bad time on me not being able to be 100% sure I was moving on a certain date, pointed out I am working full time and will aim for this date but I do need the moving company to actually confirm they can do it and the cost. Hey ho, used to being the bad guy but I did push back on this and also pushed back on her accepting consequences. I validated and talked with her for a while but she started to say that what has happened and what she is doing now is nothing compared with my depressed behaviour in the past which she was unhappy with in the M.
I validated as much as possible but when she carried on saying that she needs to be in a position where she can decide what she is doing, when and with whom. I asked why she cant do that now, is it her mum that's stopping her or something else - she deflected that to say in the M I stopped her which, although I said nothing is, to be honest, rubbish. Pointed out that at no point have I ever told her she couldn't do something and, while I may have been in a depressed state (and had reasons relating to her treatment of me although I am not playing blame with her and just accept and own my behaviour and aim for a better me) if she wanted to do something she could and I pointed out she indeed went on a camping trip with her friends with S and went on holiday with her mum while I worked. She then changed the subject.
We did briefly cover what's happening post move and Christmas. As expected she doesn't want to come to me or share lunch saying it would confuse S - she seems to think everything upsets or confuses him, seems to be the other way around from my perspective but that's not a fight for today - looks like she has Christmas eve with S and Christmas morning I get afternoon evening and him staying over (at the new house) for boxing day (I will also push for the 27th if I don't get Christmas morning).
We spoke about what happens next (I kept saying she can stop talking, leave it or indeed if she had enough she could go and didn't need to talk about anything she didn't want to. She did carry on but the conversation was circular and she still seems confused on her intentions. Ultimately I said that at the moment we are married but not living together - she agreed with this, she told me that she has no desire to see anyone, hasn't been and definitely doesn't want anyone else (she just seems to be unsure if she wants me). When asked I said I'm building a new home with S and I and the door is open and she is welcome when and if she wants to walk through but I'm just getting on with things.
We did discuss whether she was seriously still thinking or whether this was one of her ideas to minimise pain (manipulation in my opinion but that's an accusatory word and wasn't appropriate) she denies this and indeed said "that sounds like me doesnt it?!", I resisted delving into the fact its not her I think of as manipulatory.
Lots of other stuff but a lot was circular.
Effectively held up my PMA and positive me, portrayed that I have hope for our future if she chooses that, for now I wont stress her out and she should work out what she needs but that I will carry on with my changes and building a new home with S in the meantime (this is to make sure Im not seen as a fallback plan, W takes it as I may decide to just move on if she spins it out too long, I havent denied that but whether I could do it I find difficult to believe at the moment, in 6 months - alone - maybe that view will change)
S's birthday tomorrow looks like he has a stacked day as he wants to go to a lot of events be with MIL/FIL for cake, see me and then go with a group of others to get pizza in the evening. W doesnt want me along for the evening event so I'll get a good few hours with him which is good (booked the day off as I can catch up with house move stuff)
W was backing out of the room in the end, a body language trait she has learned dealing with her M. I would have loved to talk more but ultimately I could tell she was getting emotional (she had to leave the room a couple of times and I think she was crying but this version of me knows not to follow or go into her personal space and be patient - she doesnt need or want my shoulder or reassurance at the moment) then at the end I could tell she was shutting down and veering toward getting defensive and angry, she also was getting jumpy as S was with FIL and apparently he has been rude to MIL/FIL and disrespectful. Personally I dont blame him and I can see whats going on, he's not buying W's excuses for their behaviour, doesnt excuse being rude but W is in worry mode over it. Between that and her emotions and defensiveness she then left quietly, learning from mistakes in the past I sat quietly in the lounge and just said drive carefully.
Sat there and fely sad for 15 minutes but then got myself up and finished some packing. Wrapped S's presents for tomorrow and then got on with dinner (Steak, roast veg, y'pudding - yum) watched the torrential rain.
Just chilling now, been abandoned by the cat who's curled in a ball ignoring me as cats do. W had asked me to look at her old mobile to see if it can be unlocked for S to use on some android games (not as a phone) which took all of 2 minutes, texted her to say that was done - W criticised me for texting / emailing too much today which (A) seems hypocritical as she keeps starting these conversations and I just reply and (B) seems to be her trying to enforce control again - no reply. Not (since I cant) going NC but I'm switching to only emailing / texting updates relating to the move that affect her or anything to do with S. Think for a while best if I just disregard her texts or facebook invites as she seems to be goading me into conversations which she then criticises me for.
So this evening, Sad but coping... not great but not suicidal.
Sounds like quite a day. But reading through looks like you did alright.
Sad is OK for a bit
On the subject of W picking designs etc, thats the joke of her saying she couldn't do things in our M she pretty much dictated anything that wasn't a technical question from decoration through furniture and layout and I made it happen. Certainly S seems really excited about having a "grown up" style room over previous efforts but he's quite clingy at the moment - which is understandable but W denies is anything to do with her choices and in some cases blaming my issues with him (which would of course explain him being clingy with me, her, mil/fil, no?)
W and I discussed his room today as well, she seemed apprehensive about the idea of him having computer access in his room, pointed out that if and when that happens there will be restrictions in place and also we've been sensible with him and safe computing all along (living room / office access with one of us about etc) plus I'm not planning on him having tv, console, unfettered internet access at 10 just setting up the style - although we will be building a raspberry pi music / media player as part of our IT we'll work on together and I may set it up for him to have NES / Megadrive (Genesis) emulation nothing more modern than that yet except music playback from the media server - maybe access to some of his tv shows later but TV/Internet/Movies etc will be something we'll all discuss and I would of course respect W's opinions and ensure as much safety as possible (and, of course remembering he'll soon be a young man not a boy and will begin to get curious on some things that are best not plugged into a search engine in his own room)
W seems to be having real issues dealing with him getting older and stopping being a baby, I completely understand this but have to ensure S is being given his own development space as well as W's opinion being respected.
Its a theme in some of what I've read that people who can be controlling see that in others. Although that's apparently true more generally in that a lot if fears and anxieties are actually a projection of self
Sounds like quite a day. But reading through looks like you did alright.
Sad is OK for a bit
Thanks mate. Not as sad or down as I have been even after today, main feeling I had (although Sad was in there) was frustration as W will not face her emotions or consequences of what she's doing. Will pop by South and Your threads a little later and see how you're getting on.
Edz,
I'm starting to wonder if they ever realise the consequences of what they are doing .
South
I think they do, just in my WAW's case she sees it as actions that I've forced her into
I can only imagine what my W Mil and SIL think I'm saying to the kids about the whole situation .
And then like your saying jim that I have forced them into the actions or in there case inactions .