H is MLC and very compulsive. I wanted to be a WAW but had second thoughts and after research found DR which is now worn out. Came to this forum looking for feedback and to assist with my strategy.
In many ways quite a long way down the road because of GAM Anon and following the 12 step program. But and its a big but still not GAL.
So goals
Lose the 20 lbs I have put on in the last 6 months
Return to Ceroc dancing at least once a week
Gym daily follow body for life program
Get Fitbit up and running
Sell house
Disentangle Hs finances and mine
Buy office for my business to save rent
Take Portuguese lessons
So far
Appointed estate agent for house and started to clean and house doctor
Made bid on new office and appointed S and valuer
IC with specialist in gambling gamcare charity
Attended 12 steps for 3 months and ga anon for 2.5 years
Started wearing make up
No longer watch depressing tv but listen to music instead
Read DR 3 times and lurked on board for 3 weeks
Booked assertiveness course for women for next February
Cancelled joint bank cards and brought finances up to date
Confided in 2 friends who are supportive of M and standing
Bought old banger but more reliable old banger
Got hair done professionally once a month
Dragged out colourful clothes and jewellery
Given up sugar and salt
Weekly sauna
Got nails gelled and teeth hygienist feet pedicure and chiro
Cleaned windows and glasses!
Now asking for help and feedback especially on goals GAL LRT and MLC
Having hard time removing drama and StFU
Regards
Vanilla
H and I are on holiday. I joined H last Wednesday and he has been here for 2 weeks mainly playing golf in tournaments. H appears to have been drinking very heavily every night. Yesterday he drank 8 pints ( or more?) starting lunchtime.
Had a major eye opener last night though. H has a short fuse can be about anything, an overcharge, a bad driver on the road, poor service, any minor error on my part, and last night from a dinner companion who took an important work call after dinner.
H spewed and then went to bed. My good friend stayed for coffee and quietly handed me a spare set of keys in case I needed to get away. I tidied the dinner things and went to bed in another room. I need not have worried h was fast asleep snoring like a bear and woke this morning cheerful, made coffee for me bought bread and then went to golf!
I was proud of myself as I STFU. No pont in arguing with a drunk nor an amnesiac, is his life after all. Friend txt me and I told her all was ok and not to be concerned.
We go home to-day and I am back to work tomorrow. I can GAL with more confidence at home as I have my resources around me and my books.
Regards
Vanilla
Quite a story. We're the two of you married before?
Mr bond
We're the two of you married before?
Yes but not to each other lol
Me: m1 age 19 14 years widowed h died brain aneurism age 33 no kids 1 stillbirth
M2 20 years divorce amicable 7 yrs ago
M3 this one
H m1 32 years widower cancer aged 53 s29 died cancer 6 months after wife s2
now 30 3 beautiful gds 9 6 3
M2 this one
Regs
Vanilla
Mr bond
We're the two of you married before?
Yes but not to each other lol
Me: m1 age 19 14 years widowed h died brain aneurism age 33 no kids 1 stillbirth
M2 20 years divorce amicable 7 yrs ago
M3 this one
H m1 32 years widower cancer aged 53 s29 died cancer 6 months after wife s2
now 30 3 beautiful gds 9 6 3
M2 this one
Regs
Vanilla
Ok, so what caused the collapse of your second M?
Sorry,hit 'submit' too soon.
What M issues did you have together? You weren't married that long, so maybe there was some lingering issues that weren't resolved before?
Mr bond
Thank you for looking at my story
My second marriage was very ordinary and based more on friendship than anything else, H2 was in the same field as I was and we were compatible intellectually. There was little passion either way but a great deal of respect and meeting of minds. The marriage was 20 years.
What m issues did we have together?
I assume you refer to current M so am answering that.
I think H was more traumatised that I understood by the death of his son of bowel cancer.
It turned out he has gambled everything he owned and more whilst telling me that his resources had gone on care for a sick wife and son. His DW enabled his gambling, drinking and smoking. He stopped all of this not long after meeting me and disclosed how his life was out of control. He attended GA and said he stopped. The crisis came within 2 months of us being married when a new boss told him he would need to improve to stay in role. H declared great unhappiness and decided to leave and he took money from his pension. Of course it's all gone and we have the crazy world of MLC.
I did not cope with the chaos very well at all but have attended gam anon and I still go to the meetings. H ceased ga almost as soon as he started but he claims not to be gambling. I have let go of my desire for him not to gamble with a great deal of help and support from my group only H can make that choice.
H has declared he can no longer pay his share of the bills and wants his share of the assets! This means I have to sell my home to pay him off. My S tells me that if I leave it too long he will get half of everything I have built. That actually does not matter if I can save my M. I love H but struggle with the MLC part of life.
I am trying to learn or unlearn behaviours very quickly.
Regards and thanks
Vanilla
Decide to do a 180 to day. I will give H what he says he wants and agreed the following with him:
1. I will pay a flat sum when the house is sold Generous sum
2 neither of us will have any future rights to assets pensions or the business nor will we inherit if either dies
3 each of us will receive payment if we work in the business at market rate
4 each will pay 50% of the bills but I will pay the mortgage and repairs
Seeing this in black and white broke my heart again but I held it together and drafted a basic agreement for us to sign. What a way to run a marriage but at least the crazies will leave us with a roof over our heads and H has cash to live his life.
H was very relieved and was very co-operative.
Am going gal and sauna tonight so no overlap. Gam anon tomorrow so he won't see my tears.
H playing golf all day tomorrow
DB arrived to day so can begin reading that
Regards
Vanilla
"Of course it's all gone and we have the crazy world of MLC."
I don't think it's all an MLC as you described. Your H has had a lifelong gambling addiction and his current behaviors seem to continue that trend.
He wants the quick fix. That's what gambling does. He wants instant gratification and it seems like his demanding the assets is more of the same. Now is the time to totally back off and let him self-destruct. Protect yourself so that he doesn't drag you down with him.
Went to sauna last night so relaxing with a very good female friend and moo he'd talked about nothing in particular and everything specific. GAL chatting and very encouraging.
Arrived home and H fast asleep in bed with TV blaring but first time he has been home before me in a long time. I feel the pressure is off me now a little. H went to golf early and I stayed in bed drinking coffee and eating hot buttery toast. Read some of DB (arrived yesterday).
GAManon tonight so will chat about your observations MrBond and ask for some guidance about coping. There is also a coda meeting on Tuesday's and next step is to evaluate if I need help with boundaries or not.
Will think long and hard about the instant gratification issue and low impulse control too. Very helpful thank you, it resonates.
This is clearly a man in crisis and I don't have the skills to cope or even diagnose it. You are right to advise standing back and protect myself.
My S and I together with my sponsor have been working on the financial limits of earlier posts- I really needed help with that and was very reluctant. Doing a financial agreement means I can be settled in my mind that my exposure is capped and I can plan. As you say it protects and it has the effect of limiting my exposure to financial damage. But it really pains me to do this even though I need it for my own protection and financial safety. Of course the house will have to be sold unless I can raise the finance another way. I am referring to it as the house and not our home so that I can view more dispassionately.
I feel a little better for it. This may help my PMA.
Thanks
Vanilla
Mooching
Went to GAanon arrived home half an hour ago and had a surprise
This morning stripped bed and put sheets into the laundry.
Came home 12:30 to find the sheets dried and my bed made.
Go figure......
H hasn't changed his bedding
Thank you H
Vanilla
H went into work today. Acting as if it is normal!
He even made me a coffee before he went.
One day at a time today I can do what I can
This evening GAL Halloween party we are going to dress up it is a charity event
Had a text from my sister about Xmas do we want to go?
I have parents M 89 and D 93 still alive my wonderful sis has the main care of them and I usually visit. This year is problematic as yet not gone too public until I get my self together and under control.
Unsure what to do so haven't responded as yet
Vanilla
Dreadful day yesterday.
H signed agreement and came to work. After an hour or so claimed to have flu and went home to bed. Found him flat out on the sofa watching sport on the TV. Did laundry and prepared a chili with rice for the evening meal. Also did shopping and cleaning.
Glad I went GAL as after I had gone H went drinking and this morning at 6 am has gone to golf. Clearly I make miraculous chilli; may be i should bottle it. I reacted as if he was ill. Made drinks, food and did chores was solicitous.
So hard standing back and watching someone you love fall to pieces. Detach, detach, detach or at least act as if detached.
Trying to let go of my resentment and LRT..
Noticed that I put S i(for solicitor) in earlier posts- will use L in future.
Filed financial settlement with solicitor and at least know that my financial exposure is capped.
Will GAL and am now going to the gym.
Vanilla
Realised I haven't explained the work issue.
Financial settlement says if H does any work in my business he gets paid an hourly rate for it. This is because one of his complaints was he was'helping' me and not receiving payment. So have taken that on board and have paid him for his booked hours, when we went through his log discovered a lot of the time helping was for his own issues! And he watches sport on his iPad when in the office. To his surprise he discovered he hadn't actually done as much as he thought.
But none the less I have paid him to day. One less complaint off the table.
In addition H bought shares in one of my companies and I am arranging a loan to buy them back as he clearly wants the cash back. Will survive but it is very hard work.
Vanilla
Things not so good last night.
H swore at me, he was taking a shower and the water went cold accused me of running a bath to deliberately make the water cold. I will not be verbally abused in this way. And this was before he had a drink!
H went out drank 6 pints of beer, was asleep when he came home, wanted peace to read and think. Watched a film in the living room, haven't used that room since Xmas as H usually on couch watching sport.
It is my house too..........
H went to golf this morning, peace to do my washing and ironing. Am in the office getting ready for tomorrow and work.
Can cope to day.
Am seeing an IC tomorrow to be assessed for codependency as if yes will need more directive help for my issues. PMA getting harder and harder.
Wanted to paint my garage door but it's raining hard.
Think I may go to the seaside to get a little nature top up. Sold on the idea, maybe some fish n chips for a change.
Vanilla
As the Potential WAW wanting my potential left behind spouse to invest in himself as well then some of the DB doesn't feel entirely appropriate but the detaching bit definitely does.
Let LBS find his own way and just stay away quietly and without investing in the outcome. Talking causes confrontation and I just want peace. Tomorrow I'll know if I am an enabler.
Sitting in a cafe overlooking a stormy sea feeling alone.
Can I cope with a life without connection warmth and sex? Drunks can't connect very well, and there can't be that in my life. I can't decide if that's ok or not.
Vanilla
A new day and the garage door is broken. Have to fix it in the pouring rain.
H nowhere to be seen or heard so at least it's peaceful, apart from the wind and rain. Thought of working from home today if H not around.
I lost a travel purse at the airport so I need to contact lost property about it. I have a 4 o'clock therapy appointment and we are examining the codependency issues, there are some tests I can do and discuss so will need to attend early before the session.
Today I feel good, leisurely bath this morning then up for action.
Vanilla
Had analysis at IC am apparently not codependent but am in need of urgent help.
Will be referred to a counsellor dealing with alcohol affected families. IC more concerned for my safety than I am as there are aggression markers in H behaviour. I am not convinced there is much risk however and feel this is over stated but will be more observant.
I would be well advised to completely detach from H's drinking as one drink is too many. Whether he has 1 or 10 drinks is irrelevant and I could choose to cease to notice. As far as possible I should encourage H to drink outside of the house and cease to buy his alcohol of choice as part of the shopping. He should go out to drink.
In addition keep the store cupboard stocked with sliced bread, sliced cheese and sliced ham ( no knives). Carbohydrate foods will make H sleepy after drinking so crackers, Mars bars and easy cook microwave rice noodles and other junk food will reduce aggression when he arrives home. Drunks need carbs.
Don't drink with him when he is drunk, don't reward drunken behaviour, clears own mess including toilets and sinks. Don't pick him up after drinking, try to travel in separate cars when going to events if heavy drink is involved. Don't excuse his behaviour and leave him exposed to the abuse he doles out when drunk. Just walk away if he gets aggressive when drunk and don't be embarrassed by it, he is only showing himself up.
Don't enforce boundaries with a drunk and call for help from authorities. If H injures himself when drunk leave him to deal with it himself unless serious. Ignore hangovers they are self inflicted.
Encourage the golf, exercise is good. So the handouts go on.......
Help more research to be done!
Lots to think about
Vanilla
IC gave me a task to do. Wants me to examine which needs of my own are being met in this relationship. And identify why I want to stay in it.
Actually I satisfy my own needs externally from the relationship and am indifferent to staying in it. As time goes by I realise I need to ease myself away with as much dignity as I can muster and with the least possible fuss and bother.
At this stage I am standing in the doorway, maybe I need this to detach. I hope H accepts this if it becomes time.
Vanilla
Felt the whole day today feeling very low.
Have gamanon tonight.
Feel very tearful and distraught. H very aggressive and rude today. H wanted a lift to the pub where they are all going to football which I agreed to give him and he was very aggrieved that traffic made me 2 minutes late. He rang my office and let it rip at one of my staff. Staff member felt he was due an apology from H.
This is truly awful aggression which I am finding it very hard to detach from.
I really feel lost and am going dark to avoid showing the hurt. But this will not help How do I cope with this as reinforcing my boundaries results in rudeness and aggression.
This is interfering with my rice bowl.
PMA and GAL.
Vanilla
IC gave me a task to do. Wants me to examine which needs of my own are being met in this relationship. And identify why I want to stay in it.
Vanilla, I have been reading your posts and I have to say I've wondered this myself about you. I'm not judging at all, we all have our reasons for staying, and I know we aren't seeing the whole picture, just the parts you are able to post about. But, still, I think this will be a good exercise for you. Maybe you decide you don't want to be in the R. Or maybe you do wish to stay and fight, but your list of reasons will help give you more direction on how. Wishing you clarity.
Thank you rffpl for your interest in my posts.
Sorry can't get quote to work in edit mode😳😳
I am very conflicted about this. I feel paused , held in a doorway neither in nor out, waiting to make a decision. In many ways to stand for my marriage is a way of pausing of not making a decision. A little like hotel California one can never leave!
I have been working on this offline and so far this is my thinking so far:
1. I like being married, it has meaning for me. My vows are of themself enough
2. To share in a family and 3 lovely grandchildren when my own family is so far away
3. To have someone to share the financial burden of life (although a flat mate would be a possibility)
4. To love even if that seems not to be returned
5. To know I have done everything I can before I give up
6. To grow and learn as much as I can so that I will be a better person and have better relationships including H
7. To learn detachment so my relationships will be better in general
8. To get and keep a life GAL and never stop GALing for the rest of my life
Regards
Vanilla
Easier couple of days.
Bonfire night in the Uk is a festival celebrating the failure to 'blowup' parliament and is fun with fireworks toffee apples and baked potatoes. Toasted marshmallows etc, kids love it especially H's GDs and its is HSSO's birthday too so fantastic fun evening. H on best behaviour whilst as HS but afterwards went for a drink, I insisted we go in separate cars as I wanted one drink with HSSO (I took a bottle of fizzy, some extra fireworks and a bowl of hot chilli) to celebrate bday but I do not drink and drive ever, so only sipped and added orange juice.
Last night was due to go GAL with a friend but she was unwell, but whilst at gym class some of the group were going to the sauna and invited me to go along so ended up GAL after all. Lively chat, frivolous stuff and relaxing.
Woke this morning ready for action feeling good as slept well, best for a long time. H still in bed and no words spoken but noticed he had washed his bedding!
H is looking tired and unwell, just letting him get on with it and letting go.
Had a sad letter from my dad yesterday, he is barely coping with mum so my compassion and extra energy should go in that direction. Have decided to make the long journey once a month to see M and D. My D is an amazing man and has been a great dad and I love him very much indeed. M is more difficult a prima Donna and politically very right wing with strong prejudices and beliefs- well until she had dementia. M always had to be right and D was always fogging- "there may be something in what you say" and his old favourite Groucho "It isn't possible for me to say that I disagree with you" . D maybe I am more like you than I thought, H is always saying I am -like its a bad thing?
Quietly assertive my dad , I could have chosen to use more of his tactics with H. Sounds like a plan.
Last couple of days, I have been able to detach, my IC and my gamanon sponsor have all said I must stop concerning myself with how much H drinks. If he is in a downward spiral then it's best that I watch for the aggressive phase of alcohol so that I can be protected. otherwise let H free fall as its the kindest thing to do for him and the safest thing for me, let him be ill, hungover and deteriorating. But it is so hard to do, watch someone you love fall to pieces. I have decided difficult though it is to do this. But I will not buy alcohol with the shopping and actually I drink very little alcohol, except if entertaining.
H was very rude to a good friend yesterday and put the phone down on her, she told him she didn't know where I was. She was very upset when she rang me, I apologised for the upset and gave her my mobile number so she didn't have to ring me at home. I did not rationalise H's behaviour or excuse it in any way, but I did apologise that H's attitude had upset her. Is that the right way to handle this?
My cousin and her H are coming today for the weekend, and they are such fun people, the two Hs get on well and my H is always on his best behaviour when there are family about. We have a charity event on Saturday night with a live band and 70s fancy dress. Am really looking forward to it.
Back to work!
Feeling relaxed.
Regards
Vanilla
I am working on the list given above for Monday both my next IC and 12 steps so should have some good feedback. Will post the finished list as future orientated goals for me.
I have been meditating and looking to my higher power for guidance. Seeking some spiritual truth.
Looking forward to my cousin and her H visiting for the weekend.
Regards
Vanilla
I have been thinking about the observations of a GA member in an open meeting. He referred to his behaviour when he was gambling: "I was an awful person, a truly bad man, I acted without thinking and I would have done anything to stay in action. My personality was rotted to the very core, then I attended GA and suddenly in the mirror of others lives I saw myself. I had an awakening and I have attended GA every week since and sometimes more. I was out of order and unfit as a person to have relationships but I know that it was me that was the problem in my life and gambling was the way it exhibited itself. But it could have been anything; drugs, alcohol or smoking. Essentially the issue was in me and that has to be addressed every day"
I think of that being me too, addressing the issues in me every day and i ask for the strength to cope just for today. Today will be a good day, my favourite cousin is here and last night was very enjoyable. I cooked fish pie last night which is one of my favourites.
Regards
Vanilla
Good evening 70s party and danced to cheesy music until midnight with live band and day glow bracket. All in all good GAL but does that count if H came too?
H even danced a little although he was drunk again but so was my cousins H, on the whole though a good evening.
Poor old plain vanilla with her thin whispy hair and dumpy body in 70s gear and enjoying the dancing. Still got the moves........
Had a good day so PMA is high.
Observed that I have stopped LRT as decided to take D off the table for the moment.
Detached from the amount H drank so I haven't a clue but he was very drunk at 7 o'clock and it went downhill from there.
I am searching for answers but can't find potential WAWs in my sitch on the site. Lots of LBS trying hard but how does one behave in order to get a potential LBS to wake up. Do I really have to walk away? Do Sandi2 rules apply in part or in whole to the potential WAW?
Just musing
Regards
Vanilla
Plain Vanilla is one of the least offensive of my shadows, she projects very easily and emerges when I have no confidence. Projected and able to help me overcome obstacles. Tu face the pain and overcome.
At her worst she enjoys a pity party.
Regards
Vanilla
Two other more sinister shadows are the dementer who has only reacted twice in my life once with great destruction and the second time to aid me in a great struggle. I keep the dementer loose as it is almost impossible to contain but my goodness very difficult to direct when riled, glad he is on my side. The second is a recent grow your own demon that I refer to as the screaming banshee who is the master moaner and groaner, screeching as if injured, she protects me when I feel I need defending but on the whole more bark than bite. I appease the screaming banishee and am trying to get her to STFU constantly. I also have stubborn stonewaller who sulks and plays hurt hobbit but recently she has stayed quite still and not come out to play very much.
In addition to my shadows there is a small cast of translucents who I wish to encourage to be more active but they seem to stay hidden when I am under stress.
My IC and I are going to discuss my shadows in my next session and how they play a role in my life and I think I will ask to review all of the other parts too. Surely there must be some goodness somewhere.
Gam anon tonight and thoughts of what represents a higher power. Last time we reviewed the difference between the higher power and the greater power. The internal locus and the external force, with the aim of realising that the internal is more important than the external but I still don't quite get it yet. Step 11.
Regards
Vanilla
Very interesting discussion at gam anon about gratitude. Brought back memories of early evening childhood prayers and including our blessings. The older the child, the more the blessings that had to be found. Yesterday was a three blessing day!
Car battery needs to be replaced, was flat when I came out of the gym and had to blag a jump start. Went to local garage to buy jump leads and blagged a jump. Pouring rain and hair a messy helmet but was happy I coped ok.
Today am going with a friend to see the rememberence poppies in London, a once in a life time opportunity, some of the gam anon group went yesterday and found it very moving. Looking forward to that very much and will remember those lost in my family to the war. Some sad tears but part of the bravery that is the UK and its allies standing bravely against great odds. It reminds me to stand in courage.
Regards
Vanilla
Caught a chill last night, my chest is very tight and congested. Felt very tired and went home to rest.
Reading and it's cold everywhere, so feeling dreadful. Long time since my ears and my head are so full, bad tummy, perhaps it's stress but think the lady version of man flu.
Going to force myself to go GAL very soon, last day to see those poppies, 11th hour of 11th day of 11th month, must make an effort, will move in a short time.
Aching and sore.
Move that butt girl, no sorry for self please. Vanilla get up and just go do it.
Regards
Vanilla
Home and honey with lemon. On a complete high for life nothing can spoil this for me, glad to have made the effort.
My nose is as glowing as the red I have seen.
H was not for once very drunk when I arrived and in good mood. Pleasant interaction indeed H has bought me a hand warmer. Was bemused but thanked him profusely. He had cooked some left over beef casserole and washed some of his clothes. Kitchen was tidy and clean, validated Hs feelings about the house sale going slowly and then left to rest my weary achy bones.
H wanted to know if I am visiting aged Ps this weekend, can stay at favourite cousins house if needed. Was non committal as don't want to take my nasty bug to aged Ps.
Detaching has left me somewhat unconcerned about Hs drinking.
Part of my boundary is that whilst H is under the influence of drink then I will not engage in almost any discussion about emotives as he vents and spews.
I am not sure any actions of mine will be seen in a good light at almost any time, the compulsions are in charge, and frankly distance is the only choice. Light breezy nothings are the order of the day, pure polite pleasantries and swift effective exits. H has stopped persuit and baiting conversation now there are no buttons to press. Well at least visible to him. My tears are all dried as they serve no purpose and I am starting to project active love towards H rather than distress and pity.
I imagine empathy radiating from my tummy like laser lights to his battered body and I hope it helps. In my minds eye I bathe him in this for a few brief seconds and move on. H is ageing fast and looks deteriorated and worn.
We both need to look in mirror of unvarnished truth and any minor enabling of mine must cease.
I am determined to be vigilant.
H ate a whole loaf of bread in the last few days, so I need to restock.
A happy contented vanilla has read Jims thread again and loves his idea of cat like detachment.
The world is at peace tonight.
Vanilla
Had dentist today, triggered a headache and so needed some rest afterwards. Went alone. H went to see his bank manager and bought himself some new clothes, h's going to see his granddaughters tonight so house will be quiet and restful.
Means I don't have to prepare a meal.
I have been thinking about boundaries, and their importance particularly in reference to my core values. In the 12 steps we have to acknowledge our faults and make recompense to those we have harmed. One of those acknowledgements is the effect that the gamblers problem has on our own behaviour. For me nearly three and half years ago this meant the emergence of the screaming banshee. She grew in strength as Hs compulsions became less controlled and began her screeching, complaining, controlling and defensiveness. Not good as it deflects from H and allows him to externalise and blame his actions on something other than himself. A 180 and making the screaming banshee calm again prevents that deflection.
It leaves me thinking about the boundary of contempt, how can I state that H has stepped over a core boundary when I too have infringed that boundary. No excuses for this, and the past can not be changed only behaviour amended. In the Catholic religion there is atonement and absolution : in the 12 steps there is apology and rectification except where to do so would cause harm.
I have long since apologised and accepted that banshee has been spiteful and mean. H is ill, he is compulsive and he needs to manage that illness, his choice not mine. All the banshee does is get in the way of his understanding of his need to manage. My sponsor says that a compulsive will blame anything including the weather as an avoidance for recognising their behaviour but that we as significant others can appear to compulsives as genuinely at fault if we are not in recovery ourselves. My behaviour was unacceptable and inappropriate blocking my own recovery. It has been hard to stop, to detach, to press the pause button.
To face the pain of the damage and move forward is necessary to recovery. Move from the comfort zone, do something different. It is a hard uphill path. That is why contempt is not a core boundary for me.
Unpleasant to accept and hard to rectify.
Regards
Vanilla
contempt is not a core boundary for me.
I'm a little confused by this. Maybe I've misunderstood but you seem to be saying that you should accept being treated with contempt now and in the future because of the past?
There is a need to apoligise , change and make appropriate recompense but what your describing is 'eye for an eye' revenge. I personally don't think that's a good thing.
If I misinterpreted then please let me know.
contempt is not a core boundary for me.
I'm a little confused by this. Maybe I've misunderstood but you seem to be saying that you should accept being treated with contempt now and in the future because of the past?
There is a need to apoligise , change and make appropriate recompense but what your describing is 'eye for an eye' revenge. I personally don't think that's a good thing.
If I misinterpreted then please let me know.
Thanks Jim for your request for clarification.
Yes I guess that is what I am saying. How can I critise H for a boundary violation when I have done that myself? And not in a small way either!
Not that I believe in an eye for an eye but it feels more appropriate to detach rather than enforce this boundary.
My screaming banshee behaviour is largely in the past, but only the near past. I feel I need more time as this reaction is neither attractive nor effective. It causes flooding and makes me and H very uncomfortable. Largely I am deeply ashamed and regretful of this shadow behaviour. Doesn't mean that H swearing at me is acceptable though, nor is his blaming and sneering just means I am not escalating by poor reactions.
I guess I feel very guilty for my past reactions.
I can't drink near H as it's harder to control my reactions to his verbals. I am trying to ignore it rather than tackle this head on. STFU rather than screech.
I am afraid to relapse.
Regards
Vanilla
I think I have a better understanding now and that must be really hard for you. Guilt is a big deal but accepting contempt isn't going to help you deal with that guilt, I'd question if it helps in the short term
I've felt guilty about a range of things and as a result I've caved and not had boundaries (many other reasons as well but stick with simplicity for the moment) all that happened is that I made it OK to be treated poorly - did I feel better? Not even slightly, it made me get more snarky and resentful.
Boundaries are to protect you. Letting someone else violate them isn't going to help with guilt - its just going to hurt in different ways. Making meaningful changes to you, banishing the screaming banshee, that's the stuff that will help.
Can you think of a way to tackle the fear on relapsing. If you worry about it you make it more likely.
Can you think of a way to tackle the fear on relapsing. If you worry about it you make it more likely.
Thank you, thank you. This is an observation and connection that I hadn't made before.
You are absolutely right on the mark, having acknowledged and apologised why hasn't the guilt gone? Usually it does unless there is something more going on. The fear of relapsing is because of the shame I feel at the behaviour and possibly because H has never accepted the apology. The best way is to help my screaming banshee to more effective behaviours so the fear of relapse is reduced if not eliminated. I am going to meditate on this and perhaps discuss it in my GAanon meeting tomorrow. I need goals and a plan.
I really do get the boundary issue even though I am a long way from resolving it and that is why your posts have been so helpful to me and when reading your threads I see you struggle and succeed with this. It is assisting me a great deal even though your sitch is very different.
Peace
Vanilla
I am searching for answers but can't find potential WAWs in my sitch on the site. Lots of LBS trying hard but how does one behave in order to get a potential LBS to wake up. Do I really have to walk away? Do Sandi2 rules apply in part or in whole to the potential WAW?
Vanilla, I don't think that you are a potential WAW. At least, not the kind that seems to be infamous here on the DB board. You may be thinking of giving up and leaving, but from what I have read,
you are the one trying to save the M from D. The WAW is a woman who usually (not always) has become wayward. In nearly every story here in Newcomers, there is a third party involved. It is very rare to find a stitch where there is no infidelity on the part of the WAS (or they are on the prowl and/or acting out in other ways).
I was a WAW, and yet I never actually left my home. It is a very long story, but my gratitude will be forever to the people I met on this board who talked to me very straight and helped me to find my way.
I cannot imagine what it must be like for you! I say it with kindness and, I hope, with tenderness when I tell you that you do not seem to have the description of the wayward wife. The problems that exist with your H comes closer to the picture. It sounds as if you are getting the support along with IC for the situation you are in.
The main reason I am concerned about you referring to yourself as a potential WAW is that it may complicate or confuse your position and affect the advice you receive, as well as the advice you give to others....based on the concept of the WAW. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I don't how to word things the way I want to relate the message. There is definitely a need in your life and you certainly can receive support here, as well as give it. I just want you to get the right kind for what fits your position.....which is saving your M. If I am wrong, you can correct me.
You are right that you won't find many WAW's here, b/c they aren't wanting to save the M. That is usually the defining line. Some WAW's have shown up
after their wayward behavior caught up with them.
Your issues about setting boundaries seem to come from a place of shame and regret of your own reaction to your H's problems. I didn't understand what you had written on Jim's thread, (and actually thought you were disagreeing with some advice I had offered him) but now that I have read your story....I think I see. What threw me was why you would say that, being a WAW. B/c a repentant WAW is harder on the position of the WAS than most of the LBS on the board. But now I understand why you made the statement. I knew you sounded way too nice to be a wayward.
I hope you can forgive yourself for reacting with the banshee stuff, but let me tell you....your reaction (right or wrong) does not excuse his bad behavior nor does it give him a free pass to mistreat you. Okay? I want you to get this. Just b/c you see where you were wrong, doesn't mean you have to put up with cr@p. He is/has inflicted you with a lot of pain for a long time. He's lucky all he got was some screaming! Not that it changed anything, just saying....
Just as there's no justification for a WAS having an A b/c they were unhappy and miserable for years, same rule applies here, don't you agree? His behavior/mistreatment is not justified b/c of how you responded to him.
((hugs))
Just thought I would list some of the things that have caused the screaming banshee to kick off in retaliation. She never attacks first:
In no particular order
1. That is not a good look on you as you have got so fat. (I am a uk size 12 and U.S. size 8 but was a size 6 a year ago.
2. You are a hypochondriac- for the record I have been a type 2 diabetic for 30 years and following chemo have no thyroid function
3. You never understand anything (hmmm some truth?)
4. You are the most selfish person I have ever known
5 you lie about everything and you never tell the truth
6 you are the worst driver I have ever known and very dangerous in a car
7 you put dirty dishes in the dishwasher all the time
8 you never ring me
9 you don't buy the food I like
10 you deliberately used too much/too little spice salt sugar
11 there is never any milk
12 you ignore me all the time
13 I can't watch the sport I want on TV
14 you don't earn enough
15 you work too much
16 your staff are useless like you
17 you are always late for everything especially when it's important to me (some truth)
18 you play too much music (very true)
19 you drive an awful car (so true!)
20 there is never enough hot water when I want a shower and its your fault or you turned on the bath or you didn't get the boiler serviced.......
21 you are not a we person
22 we are too different to get on and I thought it didn't matter but it does
23 you are careless and clumsy
24 you look old
25 I can spend my money on whatever I like - it's my money
26 you need to sell the house sooner rather than later (it's my house, I had this before we met)
27 you never want to go on holiday at times I want to go (untrue)
28 you pay for .............
Sounds like a rant
It is a non screaming rant
Regards vanilla
Wow, Vanilla, I don't blame you for wanting out. It sounds, at least according to this perspective, that this is something miserable inside of him as opposed to something you are doing wrong. I never, ever even considered being even close to this level of critical to my wife. Just the opposite, in fact. If I DID actually go about my interactions like this I wouldn't blame her for leaving at all.
I wonder if he's trying to push you away or make you leave?
Wow, Vanilla, It sounds, at least according to this perspective, that this is something miserable inside of him as opposed to something you are doing wrong.
I wonder if he's trying to push you away or make you leave?
John thank you for your kindness. I am not entirely blameless in this, my poor reactions have escalated this to this pitch. It takes one to tango to bring this down a notch or two so that it is capable of living with.
H is compulsive and not in management of that.
Sadly it's illness, just like my diabetes and it needs managing.
H is a charming, lively, warm and sexy man when all of this is managed properly. There are still glimpses of this from time to time. Only H can work on himself. His behaviour has deteriorated in relation to our M faster because clearly I have not reacted to it in the most effective way.
I have long since detached from H and his behaviour, seeking reasons for it have caused me too much lost time. I accept it for what it is and usually there is something somewhere in the background that emerges. Often it is some unmet perceived slight or need. Could even be the driver that cut him up or that his beer was too cold.
No blame here for H as that would not add anything or help.
I find it helps me to project active love from my tummy to him, as this affects my attitude and posture in a PMA way.
John, just add some positive stuff to your interactions. I don't tell H ILY but I try to project it even when I am in the bad place in my interactions. And do you know it has worked a little, the frequency of this negativity is reducing.
I love H and meant my vows to him, and the DB approach gives me tools to work my part.
Thank you for caring
Vanilla
Sandi
You have given me pause for thought.
I need to compose off line so won't respond very quickly, as there is a lot of washing machine in my head.
Vanilla
Quote:
I am searching for answers but can't find potential WAWs in my sitch on the site. Lots of LBS trying hard but how does one behave in order to get a potential LBS to wake up. Do I really have to walk away? Do Sandi2 rules apply in part or in whole to the potential WAW? Quote
Quote
Vanilla, I don't think that you are a potential WAW. At least, not the kind that seems to be infamous here on the DB board. You may be thinking of giving up and leaving, but from what I have read, you are the one trying to save the M from D. The WAW is a woman who usually (not always) has become wayward. In nearly every story here in Newcomers, there is a third party involved. It is very rare to find a stitch where there is no infidelity on the part of the WAS (or they are on the prowl and/or acting out in other ways). Quote
Sandi thank you for thereview of my sitch.
I confess I had not thought of it this way. I don't think that I am wayward: misguided and unhappy but not wayward. Wayward isn't in my playbook.
There is no OM, not even an tiny minute glimmer of one. It has always been core to my belief that one relationship should finish, sorted so that there is room for a new one. Besides as my grandma used to say ' if they'll do it with you then they'll do it to you'. I see myself as the faithful type and the closest I have ever been to bad behaviour is an unwanted kiss with the office leach under the mistletoe. Yuk. Who wants a partner like that. Maybe that takes away the mystery, old faithful at home et al, which is why I need to GAL. I am GAL for my life and loving it, but with my GAL pals (pun intended).
As for H as far as I can see there is no OW but nothing would surprise me these days as he is so compulsive and who knows if someone offers it ' on a plate for free' (another of grandma's sayings) then I don't know what he would do. Suspect H needs his home comforts instead.
Quote
I cannot imagine what it must be like for you! I say it with kindness and, I hope, with tenderness when I tell you that you do not seem to have the description of the wayward wife. The problems that exist with your H comes closer to the picture. It sounds as if you are getting the support along with IC for the situation you are in. Quote
Thank you, yes every help I can, as much as I can. From every source, this stuff is very hard.
Quote The main reason I am concerned about you referring to yourself as a potential WAW is that it may complicate or confuse your position and affect the advice you receive, as well as the advice you give to others....based on the concept of the WAW. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I don't how to word things the way I want to relate the message. There is definitely a need in your life and you certainly can receive support here, as well as give it. I just want you to get the right kind for what fits your position.....which is saving your M. If I am wrong, you can correct me. smile quote
I guess I don't know where I fit? A potential LBS? I guess now I am working for my marriage then my strategies changed. My M is very important to me and I love H. H likes to play the nice good guy and wants everyone to believe he is generous and loving. But it leaks sometimes.
Quote
You are right that you won't find many WAW's here, b/c they aren't wanting to save the M. That is usually the defining line. Some WAW's have shown up after their wayward behavior caught up with them. Quote
Got it.
Quote
Your issues about setting boundaries seem to come from a place of shame and regret of your own reaction. Quote
Yes that's true. Plus the stronger the boundaries I set the more H reacts badly and the more tantrums and hurtful bad place stuff I get in return. Detachment has served me better, tantrums are reduced from two or three a day to two or three a week. Seems a step in the right direction.
Quote I hope you can forgive yourself for reacting with the banshee stuff, but let me tell you....your reaction (right or wrong) does not excuse his bad behavior nor does it give him a free pass to mistreat you. Okay? I want you to get this. Just b/c you see where you were wrong, doesn't mean you have to put up with cr@p. He is/has inflicted you with a lot of pain for a long time. He's lucky all he got was some screaming! Not that it changed anything, just saying.... Quote
Yes, I see it. In the world of compulsion and wilful selfish behaviour then I haven't been the best at reacting. My other reaction is hurt hobbit which is how I reacted initially, withdrawing to lick my wounds and cry but this is also considered manipulative behaviour. I soon stopped it as it made me feel worse. I got an IC instead where I could release.
Quote
Just as there's no justification for a WAS having an A b/c they were unhappy and miserable for years, same rule applies here, don't you agree? His behavior/mistreatment is not justified b/c of how you responded to him. Quote
H thinks it is. I am not mind reading H, but the more I detach from his behaviour the easier this is getting for me and the more pleasant my life is today almost tolerable. Less drama and screaming banshee feelings.
Thank you for caring
Vanilla
Hiya, Vanilla.
I just want to interrupt very, very briefly to teach you how to do quotes.
All you have to do is type:
bracket quote equal PosterName bracket
*Paste comments in between that you want to highlight*
bracket backslash quote bracket
You must spell out "quote" the rest use symbols ^^.
For example:
I think you are AWESOME!!
The other method is to use the Quote push button at the bottom instead of hitting the reply push button. However, when one does that, it just quotes the entire post and you'll have to erase portions you don't want quoted/included.
Hope this is helpful to you.
H thinks it is. I am not mind reading H, but the more I detach from his behaviour the easier this is getting for me and the more pleasant my life is today almost tolerable. Less drama and screaming banshee feelings.
DBing is about doing what works for you. If setting boundaries seem to backfire and detaching is better, then do what's best for Vanilla.
Every stitch is different somewhat, and the way another person handled their's may not apply for you.
I wouldn't worry about what to call yourself (WAW or LBW) at this time. You are not wayward, and you are standing for your M. I think that says a lot about you, Vanilla.
I believe there are others here who may be able to offer support/help who have suffered in similar situations. I know I have read similar from time to time, but right now my poor memory fails to recall a particular name.
I
do care, and that's why I felt impressed to send that post about a WAW. As I said, I don't want you identifying with wrong advice based on being misfit, or whatever. If there comes a time you have to leave b/c of him....I still think it will be different than the one who leaves out of their own selfishness/waywardness.
If he ever gets physical, please don't stay there. Protect yourself first and foremost. You should not tolerate abuse of any type.
H thinks it is. I am not mind reading H, but the more I detach from his behaviour the easier this is getting for me and the more pleasant my life is today almost tolerable. Less drama and screaming banshee feelings.
DBing is about doing what works for you. If setting boundaries seem to backfire and detaching is better, then do what's best for Vanilla.
[/color]I have decided to try soft boundary setting but needs to be when H is sober. I can't try it when he has a drink in him.
[color:#000000]Every stitch is different somewhat, and the way another person handled their's may not apply for you.
I wouldn't worry about what to call yourself (WAW or LBW) at this time. You are not wayward, and you are standing for your M. I think that says a lot about you, Vanilla.
I believe there are others here who may be able to offer support/help who have suffered in similar situations. I know I have read similar from time to time, but right now my poor memory fails to recall a particular name.
I
do care, and that's why I felt impressed to send that post about a WAW. As I said, I don't want you identifying with wrong advice based on being misfit, or whatever. If there comes a time you have to leave b/c of him....I still think it will be different than the one who leaves out of their own selfishness/waywardness.
If he ever gets physical, please don't stay there. Protect yourself first and foremost. You should not tolerate abuse of any type.
[color:#FF0000][/color]I don't think H would physically hurt me but he is very very angry at the moment and it is spilling over into aggression. I say away from him when he is in that mood. But it can flair at any time.
Thank you Sandi, will be careful how I summarise my Sitch in future. If there is anyone in a similar Sitch would appreciate knowing.
We had the following exchange at work. I have an arrangement where I pay him for the work he does at market rate.
Conversation went as follows:
H: I need to tell you about my pay. At the rate you pay me- you are taking the p***. You will pay me a much increased pay rate or that is selfish and you are taking advantage of me.
Me: You are being paid the rate for the job
H: No I am not, if you don't give me more I leave at the end of this month
Me :Fine
Then I left and went for coffee and lunch with a member of staff who was horrified at the way H spoke to me. I think it was the sneering tone.
OK - Time to check boundary infringement- when I had calmed down.
Me: I need to talk to you about this mornings conversation
H: I don't
Me: Please wait and listen
H: OK
Me: I feel that these exchanges are unpleasant. I do not want this to continue- if you have an issue with a business issue then please discuss this with me in a civil manner. I don't have any problems with discussing these things in a reasonable way.
H: Its your fault, you are selfish and always want what you want and you never consider my feelings or what is important to me. In fact you don't consider anyone else at all and they ALL agree with me how selfish you are. For example I don't know what you are doing this weekend at all- are you going away to see your parents?
You don't keep me in the loop, what is happening this evening and tomorrow?
Me: No I am not going to Aged Ps tomorrow, I do not want to take this chest infection to my parents because of their age.
H: OK then leaves
I am unsure if this was a good thing for me to do or not. This is very new for me.
In the past I would have said nothing and just acted as if nothing had happened.
Do I act as if H did not say anything, do I review his pay with him, do I look for a replacement?
I really don't know.
Another interaction 20 minutes ago
Me: I am going home to cook a meal this evening and clear the fridge for tomorrow. Do you want to eat with me, shall I leave some food for you?
H: No I don't feel like it
Me: OK
20 mins later
H: I have revised my mind I would like to eat, what are you cooking
Me: I thought a Pasta with onions, tomatoes, garlic, peppers and blue cheese sauce with Pesto
H: Sounds good I'll go home and prepare the vegetables
What is going on?
I am close to tears and will go to the house to cook. Will not let H see this sadness.
Regards
Vanilla
It sounds like your doing OK to me. Obviously tone and volume will make a big difference (tone is still a big issue for me) so you'll need to think on this but if you think it was fine then it probably was.
I wouldn't revisit the pay unless there was a business reason to.
The more I read of your situation the more it feels like your H is 'thrashing'.
On a different note i would replace the peppers with mushrooms
Thanks Jim
I have just spent a couple of hours looking up thrashing or tantrum behaviour in adults. Apparently it's very common and should not be tolerated.
Some interesting observations including a couple of u tube demonstrations on this. I am usually relying on memory when I write the outbursts down but one authority recommends recording such events.
I know I am very calm and quite placid so not reacting is easy. Not sure some of the other techniques of distracting and humour will be so easy! Might work with a three year old but finding a pacifier and rocking not so readily available.
As usual very helpful thank you Jim and Sandi
Will buy mushrooms tomorrow
I will try to get the quote thing correct soon.
Am told it could be something is disabled on the iPad. Must try harder....
Regards
Vanilla
Thanks wonka for training session on quoting
May take me a while to get it.
My flailing fingers and poor ipad skills not withstanding
Tons
Vanilla
Interesting morning.
H as usual went to golf but half the course was closed so he is home early.
He bought some shirts this week, expensive but not very nice, lumberjack style. Had to smile as he bought M, then took them back and got L, now those have gone back for XL. The beer has caught up with him.
H has done no washing for three weeks so has no favourite clean stuff. I won't wash his clothes as:
1. I put too many garments in the machine to wash things properly
2. I am allergic to bio washing stuff and clothes not washed properly and this is clearly hypochondriac behaviour
3. No conditioner on clothes
4. He smokes and his stuff smells bad and I hate that stale tobacco smell
5. I don't check pockets properly
6. His collars and cuffs need scrubbing (golf mud and general grub)
7. I use too much soap
And so on
Just waiting for h to discover the hot setting on the tumble drier doesn't work!
Neither does the Hoover but it will take him many years to discover that too.
Regards
Vanilla
Another calm day, spent mostly resting.
Broke a tooth, great pain and discomfort plus lots of cost no doubt!
More books arrived, am reading avidly, nothing to match the DB principles, watched some u tube videos on working the twelve steps. Very heart warming indeed and I can see some parallels with DB, such as working on ourselves, humility and selflessness. I would dearly like to be further developed and I struggle with my junk. I know that the higher power within me stops me from being lonely and keeps me warm and safe. Unfortunately I am not recovered yet only working my recovery at steps 8 and step 9 making amends is next. That will be hard for me as sometimes the feelings of inadequacy get in the way of recovery.
Mistakenly I confused inadequacy with humility but actually they are poles apart. Inadequacy keeps me in a hurt place afraid of doing, writing or saying something wrong or damaging. Humility tells us that actually that we are not important enough to make that much impact. Our impact is mainly on ourselves. If only I could think that way, it gets in the way of my recovery.
I feel like more sleep as tomorrow is a very busy day.
Peace
Vanilla
That feeling of inadequacy is a real burden to carry. It weighs us down and tires us out.
You know from my thread that I'm carrying this one as well but trying to put it down.
Be careful of that definition of humility though because it can be a step on the road to feelings of 'I don't matter' (not a long journey for me'
In the short term why not try and think in a different way. Maybe something as simple as 'I am enough' - youre not saying you're perfect or that you can't do better but you are enough for you and that's what matters
I use I'm awesome.
I resigned a job for a friend of h. It just didn't suit hours wise, so I rung him up said I'm really sorry but I cannot do the job this time things have changed. Then I said because I'm so awesome I have the name of someone who said they could do it for you. All you have to do is talk to her and see what you think.
He agreed I was awesome. See what I did? Even tho I was packing my pants feeling like I could vomit any second, I told him what I thought about me. I'm ok because although I've cause some drama by not doing the job. I have organised you a replacement or a place to start to solve your drama. In effect I didn't actually let him down.
I went the extra mile, leaving the choice to him in the end, but I didn't leave my commitment without great thought. It showed I took it seriously.
Often you can tell people those things in a nice way and unless they have a serious problem with you, they won't disagree.
I tell my customers "I'm awesome, but don't tell anyone one you will ruin my bad girl image with a ;)" they all laugh and smile. They often agree with your awesome but it will be our secret!
I try never to "should " on myself anymore.
Thank you GG, I love your parable, thank you, great guidance
Thinking about it..........
So......
I text H earlier this evening as follows:
When you are ready, we can chat about the remuneration issue.
I would like to be thought of as generous. Let me know.
V x
No response from H
But this is the first text to H in about a month about non factual stuff- such as we need milk, can you put out the bins plls etc
Unsure
It's more about self talk and the way you talk about your self.
I used to make jokes and put myself down constantly. I used to shoot my own worth down. I'm trying not to. Tough gig.
I haven't yet tryed it in front of h yet, but I don't see him lrt and being dark as midnight has put that to a moot point.
Thank you GG for the clarification
I guess the self deprecation is an English trait, that is engrained. I adopted this at birth, it came with my passport. The warning is well taken, I do as you say the opposite of PMA.
You help me be cheerful. I look forward to your reports of PMA with H. There will be lightness in the dark, and humour in the dour.
All happiness
Vanilla
Thank you Jim
As always concise and on point.
I will meditate on this in my morning wake up. Please do the same, take the wise guidance given.
vanilla
I am trying to build everyone up not just me. Often I fail, because of the words and the way I express myself.
I always feel my intent is good, in the past I always thought people could see or feel if you were genuine. Seems not.
I have found tho with the amount of external stress my h was deliberately placing on me had a much bigger impact than I or anyone else realised.
This latest revelation, although I really deep down knew it really has made me feel better about how I acted. I was acting with good intent, while my h wasn't.
I need to take a leaf of Ggrass' book.
I do the British self deprecation thing and I think my W got fed up with it. She thought I was saying I don't trust her to not cheat (which she now has but anyway....).
Having said that my intent was always good.
Be positive about yourself and others. It will pay off in the long term.
Aussies do it too.
Although saying "you old b@tard" isn't really polite anywhere but Australia.
Or how are you biatch?
Or hey biatch! Instead of hello.
I am trying to build everyone up not just me. Often I fail, because of the words and the way I express myself.
I always feel my intent is good, in the past I always thought people could see or feel if you were genuine. Seems not.
I have found tho with the amount of external stress my h was deliberately placing on me had a much bigger impact than I or anyone else realised.
This latest revelation, although I really deep down knew it really has made me feel better about how I acted. I was acting with good intent, while my h wasn't.
Dearest GG
You have the clarity of a good heart. A good heart acting with best intent will always shine in meaning even when you think this may not be visible. This is better than genuine as it gives example. What others see is their concern, and if they do not accept the great gift of GGs involvement, the more fool them. Don't stop GG, you are ALWAYS welcome in my world. Thank you.
I am glad that the gift of GG is repaying with a beautiful happy insight.
Fun and laughter
Vanilla
Jim
Thank you for helping us all to greater insight.
I am not entirely sure any nation but the English make self deprecation an art form
Not entirely sure it serves us as well as it should.
Now where did I leave my stiff upper lip?
Light and breezy
Vanilla
Saw lovely sis last night, ate out again. A glass of wine but a very long day. Worth it as I love my glam sis.
Server is down in the office. H rang whilst I was at fast growing client, but I could not help at all. Good days work yesterday. I am facing a really stressful day, so decided that I will change my attitude to the challenge. Try to resolve it.
Tonight a new gamanon group is staring, will be closer to where I live, it's an inaugural meeting. Would be very sorry to miss it, so will go. I get a great deal from these meetings plus my steps meetings so this is very important to me. I suppose it's GAL.
I am on step 9 (making amends), won't be recovered until step 10 which is a maintainance step. Those of the groups who are at steps 10, 11 and 12 have a glow about them, this also applies to the GA members. I want that glow and that peace. I am still making amends, make take many years!!
Nearly let my bath overflow, so colder than normal bath.
Lively days
Vanilla
I hope your new gamanon meeting goes well.you'll get that glow soon enough.
Best wishes for you Vanilla on your new gamanon group. Your beautiful new peace and glow is soon to come.
Thank you Jim and HP.
Was very pleased, small group including a couple of guests. Leader from another group has got sponsorship for 6 weeks for the room hire. One evening the room isn't available so the guys from GA have decided we can have an open or joint meeting. So that's 7 weeks covered. There will be a collection each week so that can go towards room hire for the following 6 weeks. One week is Xmas week. The lads and lasses in GA have decided that they need GAanon so they will top up the second set of weeks. Looks like I have 13 weeks paid for., GA want me to give an hours talk though. I should have added this location already has a GA group ( relatively new) but no GAanon attached so there is a desire for the GA group to support GAanon in this location. They are separate clubs though.
I know this is hard but I am not yet recovered (that means step 10 onwards. This will make it tough to lead this new group. Why? Mainly the ratio of recoverers to non recovereds will be low, so between meeting care will all fall on a few. There is very great distress in our GAanon room sometimes.
Starting last night my number was distributed, think I may get another phone just for this purpose. H checks my phone, he doesn't tell me he does but I know he does. He also forgets and puts it on charge. H is also not supportive of my starting a gamanon group nearer home. Tough.
Reasons for new group are:
1. I travel 3 hours for my nearest group
2. Tuesday is a much better night than Thursday and I can go dancing Thursday now GAL
3. It will be a challenge for me
4. The nearest group is 1.5 hrs away x2 travel is 3 hrs, hard for non drivers and very tough if have kids
5. We start half an hour earlier so I won't be late to bed on a school night
Sounds selfish all about me...............
As I move towards being recovered then I am trusting that my higher power will help me. I have my DB and this board too. But it means I am doing step 12 before finishing step 9.
Discussing practical issues, gracious.
A late morning as I have the dentist, broke a tooth.
Yesterday I decided to start to tackle the big weight issue more seriously. A year ago I discovered (after a long flight) that I had a chest infection. That infection developed into pneumonia and in February 2014 my doctor started me on steroids. My left lung is still congested and it means strenuous exercise hasn't been possible until the last few weeks. Whilst I do gym, it has been weights not really energetic spinning. I love spinning so my new regime will include this. My first class for over a year is on Saturday.
H cancelled his gym membership as he says he can't afford it! Even though when it comes up for renewal this time it's mt turn to pay. That way we get a discount as we pay for a year in advance and we get free lockers plus 10% off drinks food, treatments etc. there is free wifi and there is a glitch so a further discount for that.
At least it means that I won't run into H at the gym from the 1 December 2014.
I have a credit card with a zero offer so I will pay on that. I need my gym membership and all the facilities especially if I am selling my home. I own the house we are moving too, it needs a new roof so I plan to add an extension and a new roof. I currently let it out although that doesn't cover its costs. Selling the big house means that I can pay off the mortgage on the small one, extend, pay off my mortgage on my holiday flat and pay off H for his shares and agreed buyout in the financial settlement. Won't be anything left though and I may need to keep a small mortgage.
This means H will have no claims on me for the future. Anything he gets he gambles or spends away. His choice, he is a big boy, should wear his long trousers and socks.
But it is so very hard and heartbreaking. I will protect myself from his compulsion and I will be a leader to my group. PMA Vanilla, PMA.
I have you lot to chivvy me into action too.
On another track, am reading Thorntons thread all of it, as his OH was a dry drunk, and that is very helpful indeed. Thornton if you are still out there, I would like your guidance.
GG I am working your thread too, as I don't like posting until I have done that.
Amazing words on Jim's thread yesterday evening (UK time). Especially from GG.
Off to the dentist.
Happy days
Vanilla
That sounds really positive about the GA meeting. I'm glad it went well
If its the first spinning class in over a year take it easy and do over do it. Never done one but they look tiring.
Thank you for the kind words and support you've given me.
Vanilla,
Weight has been an issue of mine ever since I've been an adult. Mum too, nana too sister too.
I have dropped from over 100kg to I suspect around 80. 42inch waist to 36. Not where I need to be but heading there. I have done spinning In The past it's fun. Walking is good low impact, if you can still talk that is fast enough. There was a famous diet plan called the clothes line diet. The lady was to scared to walk on the street thinking she was too fat. So she walked around the rotary clothes line.
The sky is the limit. Just focus and weight loss will be easy.
I am going to have to be careful, we have two lovely GG and Gg.
Both of whom dispense terrific advice and support.
Tooth only need support buckle filling. Sore but covered by NHS.
I am off to get a new vacuum cleaner, loo rolls and basic bits from the local Costco discount centre.
Need to look for a tumble drier: it's my fault the old one is broken apparently I over used it. Really H?
Am going GAL tonight with a friend to the cinema. Going to see a bio about the code breaker who helped win the Second World War. Will be absorbing, and informative. That is Elementary.
Last night, I missed all the action for HP and Jim: guys please have a quiet evening.
Gg amazing physical change, needs a lot of adapting to I imagine. I shall be asking you loads of questions and digging into your knowledge base. Hope that's ok, I have never had a weight issue before so this is learning territory. H has made a big thing of my weight gain: he is ignoring his own beer bump. He looks 6 months pregnant with twins if he stands sideways. But of course he never looks at himself sideways in the mirror or else it's an invisible beer bump.
Love the irony of it.
Ramblings of a disordered mind
Vanilla
Its official.
I am apparently so awful. H wants out. He wants his money and to leave because my business and I are not good enough!
Let go Vanilla
Let Go
Let me report the conversation in the office just me and H
Me: There is a matter I need to discuss with you
H: There always is
Me: Before I visit aged Ps on Saturday and Sunday, I wanted to have this conversation with you as there were some remarks that caused me concern and my fav cousin and her H also mentioned them They were about my mother
H: I don't remember, was I drunk?
Me: Yes, but let me remind you. You observed that my mother (89 with Dementia) was a terrible old selfish woman and you had only once ever seen her out of bed. I know that you feel my dad (93) is suffering as a result of that and I agree. The remark that upset me a great deal was that 'if you were my father you would have put a pillow over her face'
H: I was only joking
Me: I am afraid that I didn't find it humorous
H: I think I need to move out
Me: silent
Later
H: I am out tonight, I am going to dinner with a couple of friends at friend A's house. They have asked me to take wine and I will be staying out. You went out last night and after I had seen my 3gd I stayed in. You didn't let me know you were ok please do so in future as you were very late back and gone before I got up
Me: I have noted this
Later
H: have you told your family yet?
Me: only a little
H: I have told my S there are problems but not much more as I don't want it to be difficult
Later
H: I don't have many friends- friend I'm seeing tonight my only friend and I am going to rent near her. Every one around here is just a drinking acquaintance and A and B are both alcoholics
Me: silent
Space
H: I need to rent somewhere soon so I urgently need the money from the settlement or some of it. Your business is a failure and there isn't enough cash to pay me off.
Me: silent
H: I am going to dinner
Me: have a good evening
I am NOT going to mind read but I am going to a BFF and will stay overnight
Sadness this evening
Vanilla
My intention was to get merry and let myself cry it out. It didn't happen, no alcohol, quietly sitting watching rubbish TV and posting on line. Downloading software.
I feel empty but resolute. I am not alone and I am loved.
I am hoping I will sleep.
Just numb, one more hurdle.
Vanilla
I cant sleep at all. Staying at a friends so I am not invested in where H is tonight.
Attempting to detach but not really succeeding very well. I need to sleep.
Ate some custard!
Vanilla
Stay strong Vanilla. Detach. Detach Detach. I'm thinking of you. Sleeping pills for you and me.
Its official.
I am apparently so awful. H wants out. He wants his money and to leave because my business and I are not good enough!
Let go Vanilla
Let Go
Seems your in good company vanilla I was a used up dirty tissue and h spat on me!
Oh and 20kgish, helps when you don't eat anything for months! And vomiting oh on a good day 6 times on a bad day I couldn't count.
I was a Ww leader last time I lost weight. 22kg or so when son almost 17 was born. Took years. This time half the time. Giving away meat and doing my own meals for work and not having h cook has been a huge difference.
I consider myself ordinary, just ordinary. Not better or worse than anyone and I try to treat everyone equally. If you treat me like a fool, then you get treated accordingly.
I'm the opposite. I eat when stressed do not only am I droressed now I'm getting fat. I wish the weather was better do I could get to the gym or bike.
I feel for you Vanilla. The detaching is easier said than done. I have reading these threads very helpful as well as dinners and lunches with friends. Distractions have been the best so I don't focus on H.
Hang in there!!
Devotee
I have replied on your thread. Thank you for your lovely words. You are right detaching is easier said than done. Distraction isn't detaching though. It can be part of GAL.
When we are with compulsives including alcoholics, then there are extra obstacles and we need extra and special resources. DB is an important one, you are having a very difficult time because of the extra burden.
When is someone alcoholic?
Probably only they know, there is something that once they take the first drink they can't stop. Not every time but the alcoholic is unsure when they start if they will stop.
Some drinkers can drink heavily every day and not be an alcoholic. They stop and start at will. Others drink infrequently but bend and are alcoholics.
Heavy drinking is one issue- bad behaviour and very unpleasant but can be more easily recovered from. Alcoholism is a different scale.
Find out, take advice. Only the drinker can stop.
Loving thoughts to you
Vanilla
gg
I know what you mean by the sick feeling that makes us vomit. Not a good way to diet though!
Would you my online friend stop by Devotees post as she too is struggling with this. We all need gg brand of directness!
HP
My supportive travel mate. I am proud of you in persisting this far, and I value your encouragement
Today is a new day
Vanilla
I hope you will all find this as amusing as I do.
It is so so silly it is belly laugh good.
Tonight I was invited by a fellow Rotarian to man a car park for a concert. Collecting bucket in hand and cold nose together with a guaranteed cold. Duty is 5 until 7 pm.
Concert cancelled because of illness of artist.
Fellow Rotarian not only female but 72 and married. Happens to have a name that could be male or female. let's say Jo. Today many texts between Jo and Vanilla as concert rearranged. Vanilla in charge of coffee and cakes for cover staff and liaison for Red Cross first aides together with parking permits. Obviously really very important key to the universe stuff. I think not!
Any way Jo and I are clearly in love and arranging assignations! Well H thinks so.
I just find this Marx brothers farcical, but gave an enigmatic smile.
My mobile has been ransacked. All messages deleted before H got to it, as no importance.
I did not deny or confirm.
I love DB GAL.
Smiling ear to ear
Vanilla
I am a Rotarian as well! I knew I felt a kindred spirit with you for some reason.
Oh and yes, CLEARLY, you and Jo are in love. Thanks for that laugh.
Cooked H one of his favourite meals last night. Got some reduced price fillet steak. With mushrooms and H chopped vegetables and went for chips (fries). H was sober and some pleasant easy chit chat. Was supposed to be at a concert last night but it was cancelled. H went out drinking after dinner.
Early to bed and have slept for 12 hours.
H is at golf today.
I am going to visit fav cousin today and my aged Ps tomorrow. H is going to see his sister who is also an alcoholic and has even been in rehab. H also has a brother with an alcohol and infidelity issue. His last sibling sister seems ok but is abroad.
H has a mum and dad still alive but he claims not to love them.
It is a long journey to drive so I need to leave. Fav cousin and her H are taking me out tonight, a charity dinner. I am looking forward to it very much. Will see my glam sister tomorrow at aged Ps.
It's going to be a good weekend
Vanilla
That's funny, I'm going out often in my red heels that's have been nick name my kick ar$e heels. Nothing from h, but I'm sure he's heard.
Those tops and dresses are famous and awfully low cut.
even s16 has no clue where I am and what's happening. Often just off to mates for coffee and wines.
Now vanilla, new clothes hot hair do or new make up. Make vanilla high maintenance look good smell great.
Helps I lost a tad more in the last few weeks and now there is more to choose from in the cupboard.
Well gg on your advice am taking kick ass heels! Don't have any red ones though.
Am doing the make up, perfume and hair styles.
A little gym but want to do more.
I feel worn out with all the way GAL will take vits.
H just came up with my phone in hand ( was on charge)
H: you have some texts, shall I read them to you?
Me: ok
H automatically unlocked my phone, he obviously knows the code! This doesn't occur to him
H: you have a message from a Big B (the only name he doesn't know)
It says "that's a good one?"
Me: I sent a joke
H: sis wants to know if you are travelling alone. She will see you tomorrow
H: cousin says taxi booked for 6:45 do starts at 7
H: there isn't much here, you must delete everything
Me: yes
I think I will get another SIM a pay as you go. EE or orange do half price films on a Wednesday and I love the cinema
Only have to top up by £10 pm to qualify
I have a plan
Regards
Vanilla
If there is a kind vet out there, my thread is getting close to closing can you explain where and how to link the old one to the new one?
I am not so good at this posting stuff as its my very first board.
Gratitude
Vanilla
Hiya, Vanilla!
You will need to go to the http field and copy the whole field.
Then go ahead and make a new thread.
Follow the steps to post the link to this thread:
-Click on the Earth globe icon next to the smiley face
-You will see a pop-up box with http: in it
-Erase the http:
-Paste the whole field that you copied from your first thread
-Hit the return button
-Type in the name of your first thread (Plain Vanilla)
-Hit the return button
Viola!
If this doesn't work, just ask someone to link your previous thread in your new one.
Here's a tip, Vanilla.
You would want to keep an eye on the number of replies to your thread. Right now, you're close to 83. You're okay for a while. Generally, threads get locked when they reach over 100 posts/replies.
I would change the code on ya phone.
My h used to always delete everything in his phone, me I locked it to stop son accessing the net h made a big deal of trying to crack it. He mad the thing lock I never told him the code.
He never asked to see messages but like you I often told him who they were. Once e wants to separated tho, you don't need to tell him every message unless he's telling you.
Thank you my guru Wonka. Is there an easy way to tell the number of posts or do I need to use fingers and toes?
Vanilla
Couple of exchange yesterday
H: please text me to let me know you have arrived
Me: OK I will
Another
h: which car are you travelling up in, the Jeep or the little green car?
Me: Little Green Car
H: that's not safe
Me: the Jeep eats fuel so it's much cheaper
H: I prefer you to use the Jeep
as I was leaving H came out
H: drive safely and let me know you have arrived
Waved as I left
Curious exchange. I think he is "up to something". Unsure what that could be, he hasn't shown any concern for my safety in at least 9 months. Any way acted as if it were usual and waved back.
Text "I had arrived ok."
Then got a text back "enjoy your evening". I replied "you too"
Lovely evening in town hall with local big wigs. Some auctions for charity, raffles and prizes. I do not gamble so let fav cousin have my tickets.
Dancing, gg you would have been proud of me. Strutted my stuff, moves like Jagger! Only one glass of wine. Food was poor so didn't eat much.
I dance quite well, I can jive, salsa, tango, Ceroc and ballroom. Usually there aren't many dancers at events like these, but last night a group of young men (old enough to be my grandson young) were there. These lovely young men adopted me and I jived all night. Could take them all home in my handbag as a GAL tool. Such fun. You know the song " could have danced all night", it applies.
A group of ladies came up to me afterwards and said they loved my dancing. And they meant it!
This is GAL as it is meant to be. Resolve to dance more often.
A very happy and tired Vanilla slept without stirring all night.
Happiness
Vanilla
I'm so happy Vanilla about your awesome GAL! You are an inspiration. Good for you and keep it up!
One issue I would dearly love the views of my on line friends.
I really do not like smoking, the ashtray smell is very much like repellant to me.
6 months ago H took up smoking. He smokes in a BIG way 40 to 60 a day. The odour is awful, on his clothes, his hair, his bed , his car and now the house.
Since I have had cervical cancer then there is no sex without condoms whilst he smokes. Cigarette waste is a carcinogen and a major cause of all types of health issues. H doesn't believe this and his view is that this is all in my imagination.
His life, his health and his belongings.
Most nights he is drunk any way and I will not sleep with a drunkard. Especially one who in that state has a habit of being verbally hurtful. He spews. So I stay away, if H is having a heavy session my door is closed when he gets in, as he has been known to "let me have a piece of his mind" and "another thing"..........
Thank you H but I would rather have peace of mind instead.
Do I try to separate the smoking and the drinking? The heavy drinking is non negotiable I will not be close to a drinker who behaves as H does.
Am I unreasonable in this?
I have never lived with a smoker before and find the smoking unacceptable. Is this one I should adapt to and do a 180?
Is this a boundary issue?
Advice and views needed
Vanilla
On the page where the threads are listed vital stats like pst counts post views etc are along side each thread.
No fingers and toes required to keep track vanilla.
Vanilla, Is there a reason why you would treat those two behaviors separately at this point? Have you noticed if they go together typically?
The smoking habit is a BIG one to take up out of nowhere like that.
Thank you Maybell.
H and his W1 both smoked heavily. They drank and did not eat very well either, a lot of meat, fried food, cheese, junk, takeaways. H played golf but otherwise no exercise. H refused to allow W1 to cook fish- it smells the house. Both of them went to casinos and played poker. As far as I understand W1 was not compulsive.
W1 had three treatments for breast cancer until eventually went into her bone marrow and she died a long and painful death. S1 died of bowel cancer' he was diagnosed and died within 4 months. When younger S2 also had brain tumour but that was benign. S2 does not drink heavily or smoke and his SO is lovely and cooks healthy food, so S2 a dad to 3 lovely daughters has really lives a healthy life.
When I met H, he appeared very sorted, and was not smoking but generally normal social drinker. He confessed to the gambling but that went too, and we both attended GA and GAM-anon
H decided he did not want to work any more in Jan 2014. By March he was drinking heavily, by June smoking and I believe gambling again. He won't go to GA or address his behaviours.
He claimed he had memory problems and could not work, he won't have counselling (waste of time) and GA is boring. We agreed he would go to have medical tests to find out. I eventually booked the appointment ( an agreed item if I was to support him giving up work). He had medical tests and there is nothing wrong medically or clinically. Doctor says it alcohol and behavioural and offered counselling. H says doctor is an idiot and doesn't know what he is saying. Doctor says H is compulsive and in crisis but if he won't help himself there is little he can do.
H is angry, aggressive and unpleasant when drinking but smoking doesn't affect it. He smokes more when he drinks.
I have let go of the outcome of all round sobriety and have decided I need reasonable boundaries. The question I ask of myself is what is reasonable?
You ask if smoking is tied in with drinking etc? Smoking seems to be the last behaviour to come and the first to stop.
Trust that explains
I do have a great deal of empathy with H, I lost my first husband very young and I know grief. I also had a still birth and a late miscarriage. But for me that is part of life's unfair hand but these life curses do not excuse the tantrums H throws my way.
That is how I currently see the situation.
Thanks
Vanilla
Wow, that's a tough life hand to deal with.
Sounds a bit like smoking and drinking are linked for him. Perhaps he smokes more when he drinks, which is common
My xh1 he when I left become a huge drinker as he felt I always harped him about it and became a chain smoker. Stress can make Both habits far worse.
Long and difficult talk with my sister and father today. They think H is verbally abusive and my sis says he has been unpleasant to my family.
For my 60th party they felt H was aggressive and rude. I did not know this.
They also know he has said negative things about mother. They don't like it. Sis says they will not allow him to drive them away because they love me but if H is openly hostile they will leave or ask him to leave. They will try to be civil for my sake as far as possible.
Sis said she thought H a charming man but he seems to be very agitated and aggressive. She is worried.
Assured sis I was ok, and decided to travel back early the next morning so I can establish rapport with glam sis. All is well tonight safe at sis house. I am wondering if I should move nearer to sis and my family. Am I strong enough with just my friends around me?
Very sad tonight, but resigned that if H does not get help and things sink lower that I may not be safe.
I did text H that I would not be back until following day. I know he tracks my ipad so he knows where I am.
Tired
Vanilla
Mmm sounds like my h, he trolled forums and my fb constantly.
It's almost stalking. That's a real worry, protect vanilla.
Aggressive controlling men can resort to violence when they get very angry. Mine hit my child, you don't hit a woman but assault on a child fine!