Old thread is cooked:
claire 8 Maybe I am turning a corner but feel sad about it at the moment.
Chuck said to have hope. I do have hope for my life and my future, and happy with how I am currently living my life.
But I can't have any hope for my marriage right now. Not without expectations.
He, his family , his friends are strangers to me now. That part of my life is over.
It is so surreal to write those words but I feel like I am finally, a year later, allowing myself to come to terms with the fact that my marriage is over. A full year has gone by as of this coming Sunday, and his last message to me was about the parenting plan for April's vacation.
There is no sign of anything in the marriage to hope for. He's moved on and I need to as well.
If he has not made any further movements by the end of the year, I will push for the divorce to move forward.
This is the most heart-breaking, or maybe heart-saving (?) post I've written.
Can I "forgive" him? Not sure what that means. I can move on without hate in my heart. But I think that true "forgiveness" means that I can open a place in my heart for him. And I don't think I can do that right now. I don't feel like he should get anything more from me than the common courtesy and pleasantries I give to my colleagues whom I work closely with, but have no outside relationship with. No friendship. No going way out of my way.
Perhaps it is a sign of anger that I need to let go of, but when he first left me, I asked, "what kind of person does this to someone they promised to love and respect and support?" And I know the answer: a weak and deeply flawed one. My heart is far too precious to waste on someone like that.
I will have to think very carefully about how to someday explain this to my D if she ever asks.
I'm in a sad place right now but I think that means I'm about to move forward. Looking forward to that.
Thanks for all the support.
A sad post indeed, Claire. But realistically, I think most of us can only hope to be where you are after a year's time. It must be liberating to feel OK to just let him walk away and be confident that you can, should, and will find someone better to share your heart with!
Looks like we share a BD date, Claire.
You have sounded stronger and stronger as time goes on. A year later, I feel somewhat the same as you. I'm not going to set myself a deadline of anything, but my attitude towards relationships is simply that if a new-and-improved EX comes along, that's great, but if someone ELSE comes along, that's great too. I'm not holding my breath.. what will be will be. Sounds like you have a similar outlook.
Just posted on maybells thread, I'm interested in what your thoughts are. You're definitely much further along than me, I'm just over 4 months in...but I think this is something we all face a number of times. I get its tough because no one should live their entire life like this, and while we have to ignore what we see/hear that can seem delusional after a certain amount of time.
Why is it that only DB coaches feel like there's hope? I'm not cynical enough to think its simply because we're paying them to tell us that...most of the time
Take care Claire!
WRT the coaches' hope, I think it's because almost every time I've heard of this happening, the WAS eventually confesses that leaving was a huge mistake.
Maybell,
Not closing the door but not hoping any more either. BD anniversary on Sunday. Lots of GAL activities planned. Rope is dropped.
He is a fool.
Deep breaths...
Yeah, Claire snap we are at a simlar place by Jove!
I can't do friendly, i can't do nothing happened, but I can do walk away with pleasant and civil.
Yes they are fools. I went out to a friends till 1am, then had to come home and feed the lamb.
Coupla wines lots of coffee today!
I asked, "what kind of person does this to someone they promised to love and respect and support?" And I know the answer: a weak and deeply flawed one. My heart is far too precious to waste on someone like that.
^^^
Claire, this is spot-on. I'm where you are right now. There is a lot of sadness connected to knowing in your heart that it is over, to surrendering hope. But we can have hope for ourselves and our future.
I asked, "what kind of person does this to someone they promised to love and respect and support?" And I know the answer: a weak and deeply flawed one. My heart is far too precious to waste on someone like that.
^^^
Claire, this is spot-on. I'm where you are right now. There is a lot of sadness connected to knowing in your heart that it is over, to surrendering hope. But we can have hope for ourselves and our future.
Third-ed.
Nods, it so true.
We are all flawed tho, we all show them in different ways.
^^That is true, Ggrass.
I'm in the process of letting go, but still clearly holding a bit of anger and resentment. But I know I'm getting closer because I think I can finally envision a day when I won't feel those things. Not there yet, but closer.
I know people will disagree with me, but my anger and emotions are directed at me.
Not so much him, when I see him I now feel very little. Apart from pity at what he thinks he's gained and the expense of not doing the necessary business need to be done.
After watching brene browns v talk, I kind of had these thoughts.
I opened up as he asked, I took a huge risk he did not, he asked for friendship he has not carried his end, he refused to be vulnerable at all.
There comes a time when any in put from you is wasted and pointless. I think like me you have reached that point.
He walked out on me exactly one year ago. I can't believe I am someone whose husband walked out on her. I can't believe it's been an entire year since that happened. It still feels so surreal. Will there ever be a time in my life when I think about what's happened and not cry?
One year has passed, and now I have to face a second round of milestones-- my wedding anniversary next week. Thanksgiving, my D's birthday, New Year's, my H's birthday, and on and on. Forever.
Even among the few women I know who are divorced, I can only think of two whose husbands walked out on them like mine. One of them is purely evil-- trying to take away custody, leaving her nearly penniless. Nearly all the divorced women I know left their husbands.
When I think of that, I feel small and sad and humiliated. I feel betrayed not only by him, but by his entire family and nearly all his friends who have stood by him while he walked out on his wife-- a loving, honest, beautiful person.
I'm spinning myself into a fit right now. But I'm still so hurt and angry. I hate him. I HATE HIM.
I had an amazing GAL weekend-- drinks with colleagues on Friday. Great day with D and visit with old friends (who are exceptionally loving, kind, positive people) yesterday, and an awesome cooking class today.
I'm sorry, but I'm not ready to wish him well. What he's done is not right.
I know I need to focus on me and all the progress I've made, and all that's good in my life. But right now at this moment my heart is hurting a lot. And I need to let myself feel that right now. I've been through a lot.
I am sorry you're hurting. I know what that feels like. It's like having a stake through your heart.
How's this?
Happy birthday to Clairev2.
Happy anniversary on exploring an expanded you.
It's a stretch, I know. But you deserve to celebrate yourself.
Hugs to you.
It's weird how these arbitrary days make our hearts leap out of our chests. When at the end of the day, the progress we have all made healing and growing hasn't gone away.
We are just reminded of the past. We feel the grief but it passes....
This will pass too.
Claire, I haven't been following your situation until very recently. I'm so sorry you're 12 months into this, and you know what? You don't have to wish him well. F'him and feed him fish heads.
As a member of the male species, I am dumbfounded how a man walks out on his wife with a 2 year old. I don't care if your wife is a screaming shrew and hasn't given you sex in 12 months. Suck it up man, and take care of business.
OK, sorry. Soap Box mode: off
So sorry for his BS Clare.
Question. How many of your friends that left their husbands regret their decisions? We're they WAW? Just curious as a LBH.
Pray for ya! I know I would never have left u if you were my spouse!
Claire, I haven't been following your situation until very recently. I'm so sorry you're 12 months into this, and you know what? You don't have to wish him well. F'him and feed him fish heads.
As a member of the male species, I am dumbfounded how a man walks out on his wife with a 2 year old. I don't care if your wife is a screaming shrew and hasn't given you sex in 12 months. Suck it up man, and take care of business.
OK, sorry. Soap Box mode: off
My husbands fave statement was he never got sex for a year with w1. I bet he tells ow w2 was fridged as w1. He would give me a lecture now I never made a move on him, then absolutely reject me when i did, saying no and leaving the house. I would beg him not to, he would not reconsider.
Claire, feeling better today? Sounds like you had a great weekend minus the grieving your loss.
Your question about when you will stop crying about this-I have no answer but I know that our grief lives in us and may pop up time to time. Don't take your grief as a sign that somethings's wrong with you, I think it makes you very normal. My mom's been dead for 7 years, we had a complicated relationship, and I still occasionally cry because I miss her.
I strongly believe that we can change our thoughts/change our life so I would suggest a new internal response to this: "I am someone whose husband walked out on her." to "My husband chose to walk away from our troubled marriage because of things in him. I took responsibility for my role and have used this time to become a stronger Claire."
You could also add: So he can go pound sand!
Have a good week.
Thank you, labug, and everyone for the kind words and support.
Treated myself to a good night's sleep last night, so even though I didn't get all my work done for today, at least I woke up feeling less exhausted.
We all (me, D, H) have to live with the impact of his choice to abandon the marriage. I can choose to live in the best possible way. Our choices in how we live can define us.
And while I'm not closing the door on anything, I am not actively "DBing". I am pulling back a lot, responding only when necessary, focusing just on me and my daughter.
And it may be that I push him away by doing that.
But I decided that I need this to help me fully detach. My expectations had been pretty low, and there have even been some big positives, but I was still feeling stuck.
He asked me to put D to sleep last night even though it was his night. I assume he had plans--maybe football, maybe a date, who the F cares).
So when he texted me to say thanks for filling the car up with car and for taking care of bedtime, I didn't respond. The only response I can think of that sounds honest is "you're welcome", and I feel like that would come across as nasty. Sometimes no response is a response, right?
Why would "you're welcome" sound nasty??
I don't know. I guess I can say you're welcome if he took the time to acknowledge something I did.
I'm struggling so much right now with letting go. And since I'm not feeling quite ready to be friendly with no expectations, I'm erring on the side of unfriendly.
One year. He's had enough time to see my changes and at least be able to say "I don't want this to happen. But I need more time".
If he still can't even bring himself to open up a tiny bit after all this time, I feel fairly confident I've done everything I can do. My MIL told me that one of the issues in her M was that my FIL was "emotionally unavailable". I see that in my H too. My primary 'LL is words of affection/affirmation. I grew up in a household that lacked that. I can no longer accept being in a marriage without that, or with someone unwilling to work hard on giving that to me even if it doesn't come naturally to him.
I've been without him a whole year, and my life is pretty good. That says a lot.
I'd kill to have my H say "you're welcome" to anything I thank him for. Ever. Just once. Or give me any response at all. I think that would be lovely.
Ok. I sent a you're welcome txt back. And a thank you for something else he did for me.
If the most that comes out of all this is that he at least wonders, "is this really worth it? Am I really making the right choice?" Even if he is too weak and cowardly to DO anything about that--well, I guess that's something.
This is taking up too much space in my brain today. I have IC but I'm not even looking forward to it.
I took our ketubah off the wall-- its a marriage certificate, but basically a big piece of artwork. It's in a prominent place in the living room and I took it down last night. I had second thoughts as i left the house this morning, but it is too late. He will see it this evening when he comes to get D. I won't be home.
I thought again about those photo booth pictures-- he wrote the bride and groom a check from our joint account which has both our names and marital home address on the check. If he took a date, or was somehow "with" someone there... ew. So tacky.
I reached out one more time to a couple of friends (wives of his friends). I haven't heard back from them in days. I know people are busy, but in this kind of situation, you find a minute to send a quick reply if you want to. So, I'm letting go of them, too. Not in anger, but I just don't have room in my brain and heart for people who don't value me. They all know where to find me if they want. And if not, it's their loss too.
And while I'm not closing the door on anything, I am not actively "DBing". I am pulling back a lot, responding only when necessary, focusing just on me and my daughter.
That sounds a lot like DBing to me.
Thanks labug
I needed to hear that.
Feeling a lot less afraid to let go. I'm doing pretty well without him. Still have finances to figure out but I'm not terrified.
Claire, you are doing great! I think all of your feelings and reactions are perfectly justified and normal. And it is great to hear that you feel your life is good one year without him.
Even though he may not have made moves toward you or said that he may have made a mistake, it is completely possible that he has had these thoughts in his mind. Maybe all the time. His loss.
Also about the photos on the bedside table... I know the likely thing is that it was your H and his date in the photos. But you know what? One time while we were still happily married, my H came home late from an office party and put some photo booth photos on his bedside table. They were of him and a group of other coworkers. They stayed on his nightstand for weeks. It had no meaning, he was just too lazy to put it away somewhere. So this photo you saw from afar could have been him and the groom, him and the bride, him and the ringbearer for all we know. Or it could have been his date but it doesn't mean he was gazing at it lovingly while falling asleep. Try not to let it bother you too much, it could have no meaning at all.
Big hugs, Lisa
Annnnd, here's why I feel ok about completely detaching: I just called to say goodnight (which is unusual, but my babysitter said my D wanted to talk to me, and I didn't get a chance to call before H got home), and he can't even speak to me for a second. D "answered" the phone (she's not even 4 and I called his cell phone). Who the he!! needs that.
What an a$$.
Sorry Claire. Though we all come here with the intent of a fairy tale ending, if life was all fairy tales we wouldn't need a DB forum. I know there are some people that gave their M only a snowballs chance that recovered it, but i kind of believe that had as much to do with their partner as it did the sincerity of their DBing. The sad fact is that many people just don't have the strength to stick out a marriage no matter what you do. You got dealt the WAH card in life and it blows up many of your hopes and dreams, leaving you older and a bit shell shocked.
The good news is I know it will paid off. I can assure you there are many good men out there that would love the opportunity to be partnered with you. Just because you've been strong enough not to play the field and had too much respect for yourself not to rebound, that doesn't mean you won't have more love, appreciation, and support in your life than you've ever had in the past. The best part is you know what you want so you're more likely to get it, AND you've turned yourself into a prize which will attract the kinds of men that will appreciate who you are and reciprocate that type of character.
Of course it's scary because there are no guarantees in life. Any of us could turn into a cat lady or creepy old guy. But I am optimistic that a more meaningful M is in your future. I hope for your H's sake he wakes up in time to be that man. Stay strong and keep breathing.
The generosity of spirit and support of the folks on these boards continues to brighten my heart. What an amazing community this is.
thank you, thank you, thank you all.
(And, now that I've had some time to mull it over... it's just as likely that he doesn't talk to me because it's too painful for him as it is that he's just a jerk.)
Annnnd, here's why I feel ok about completely detaching: I just called to say goodnight (which is unusual, but my babysitter said my D wanted to talk to me, and I didn't get a chance to call before H got home), and he can't even speak to me for a second. D "answered" the phone (she's not even 4 and I called his cell phone). Who the he!! needs that.
What an a$$.
Claire, Seriously. Don't read too much into this. I hardly let my kids (5 & 7) touch my android and when they do, they barely know how to operate it. They go to my mom's, she has the same exact phone, they are showing HER how do do things. If I call my Mom, she lets them answer sometimes. It makes them feel special.
It's quite possible it has nothing to do with you at all.
(((Claire))) You're doing great. You've got enough reality to beat you up 100 times over, don't make stuff up to beat yourself even harder. It's counter-productive.
Claire it sounds like you're in a really difficult place right now. I agree with Jefe, don't read too much into all of these things, it'll keep you spinning.
Take care of you.
So. .. doing some late night thinking instead of getting my rest.
I made a bold move and removed a big wedding-related picture from the wall the other day. H was here last night, my MIL will be here today. H hasn't brought it up and I don't think he will. But on the off chance he does, I wanted to be prepared with a response if he asks about it.
How do I answer if he asks," why did you take that picture down?"
the truth is that it was a painful reminder of his betrayal of his vows, and it feels fraudulent to have it displayed so prominently in our house. I should have waited until I had something to replace it with, But I didn't, and now it's done, and life goes on.
He won't ask about it, though I do sense he's pulled back a bit from the tone of his emails. But I am still curious what a response might sound like.
I'm a smart ar$e so I would say the string broke it feel off the wall and smashed on the floor, so I put it away.
I would just say that you're moving things around and experimenting with the space.
I'm a little surprised you left it up this long. I took everything about us as a couple down as soon as he moved out. Down to the feng shui thing in our bedroom. What could he say? He chose to leave. I'm not going to leave shrines to a dead marriage all over my living space.
I'm sure your MIL will understand. Good for you. I'm sure having it down will help with your healing.
It's our ketubah-- a religious-legal document, the marriage contract basically. It's the only thing I've left up. I took all our other wedding/ family photos down. I guess It was my way of signaling that I was still adhering to that contract...
And, It's not that I've decided I'm not following that marriage contract any more, but I don't need to have a public symbol to him and anyone in my home. If he wants back into our marriage, he knows where to find me.
I'm a little surprised you left it up this long. I took everything about us as a couple down as soon as he moved out. Down to the feng shui thing in our bedroom. What could he say? He chose to leave. I'm not going to leave shrines to a dead marriage all over my living space.
Claire, I'm with you and Maybell. The day after the 6:30am disaster I took down all pictures of us in our bedroom, although I left things up in other spaces of the house. However, after he leaves they all get stored. I don't need to look at them every day.
It's your house, he really doesn't have much right to ask anything about decor at this point.
Make it your castle, Queen Claire!
I moved a wedding picture from our dresser and actually hung it above our bed when I was redecorating. I asked my sister's opinion of I should take it down before he got home and agreed with her answer. We're still married and this is me taking my stand, letting him know without talking about it. Everybody has a different way of handling things.
If he (or MIL) asks I might just tell them just what you said. "It feels fake to have it displayed."
Claire, I'm back on your thread and reading it through and I decided Not to go back to your earlier posts to find what I seek.
Instead, I'll ask you to take a trip back in time....tell me now, what you think YOUR PART in all this, originally, was...and
in what ways you are now different than you were, before.
He walked out on me exactly one year ago. I can't believe I am someone whose husband walked out on her. I can't believe it's been an entire year since that happened. It still feels so surreal. Will there ever be a time in my life when I think about what's happened and not cry?
YES.
One year has passed, and now I have to face a second round of milestones-- my wedding anniversary next week. Thanksgiving, my D's birthday, New Year's, my H's birthday, and on and on. Forever.
It will NOT be for forever, unless for some crazy reason, you choose that, (which you won't.)
Even among the few women I know who are divorced, I can only think of two whose husbands walked out on them like mine. One of them is purely evil-- trying to take away custody, leaving her nearly penniless. Nearly all the divorced women I know left their husbands.
When I think of that, I feel small and sad and humiliated.
So there's clearly an ego piece of this, b/c a lot of us would feel WORSE if WE had ended the marriage; not better. This is interesting that you feel worse b/c you wanted to keep the family intact...
anything in that other than pride talking? I'm being sincere b/c I think when you parcel out the wounded ego and injured pride, and look at what's left, it's not a lot. And that's good to know.
I feel betrayed not only by him, but by his entire family and nearly all his friends who have stood by him while he walked out on his wife-- a loving, honest, beautiful person.
Be a loving honest beautiful person and in that, LIVE IT. Honest loving beautiful people PITY those who cannot appreciate the intrinsic value in YOU.
And I do pity them. What must they say to convince themselves that their son/friend has done a good thing? And the answer is NOTHING B/c we do NOT KNOW what the feel.
My oldest brother left a wonderful loving honest beautiful woman. I still miss her although we remain close. IT's hard at holidays when I know she'd make it so much more fun. My brother was a lousy h and still is (in marriage #2). But he does not know it! We do. Make no mistake, as much as my ex SIL may believe we accepted his choice, what choice did we have? We all urged him back to her but to no avail. He's a fool...and that's my oldest brother's story and he's sticking to it.
Unfair to her? God yes, at first....b/c in time, she met OM and to be fully honest, my brother did her a favor by divorcing her. Not saying it did not hurt A LOT.
But She really is a lot happier with her OM (now her h of 10 years) than she ever would have been with my oldest brother. Her present h is much better suited to her and treats her much better than my brother ever could or would have. Just not in him to give a lot in a relationship, but her 'new h' does.
And yes, she admits she is happier than she expected to be, with or without my brother. So, there you go...and fwiw, their d does seem pretty well adjusted. I think that's b/c her parents rarely bad mouthed the other, to my knowledge. That helps. AND she did love our family and we loved her back.
Try to believe that it's possible your inlaws feel like crap about their son's choice but they do love him and at times like this (and my older brother did the same thing), their comments are being measured for "family loyalty" points. I got a lot of flack from my brotherS (3 of the 5) for urging him back to his wife and for not taking "his side" of things. Years later, they see things differently but we have accepted his new wife b/c she didn't do anything (morally) wrong by marrying our brother...
I'm spinning myself into a fit right now. But I'm still so hurt and angry. I hate him. I HATE HIM.
I had an amazing GAL weekend-- drinks with colleagues on Friday. Great day with D and visit with old friends (who are exceptionally loving, kind, positive people) yesterday, and an awesome cooking class today.
Keep this up!
I'm sorry, but I'm not ready to wish him well. What he's done is not right.
Who said you have to wish him well? Or judge his choices? Not me...get back to YOU and YOUR LIFE and GAL....you yourself and Claire....that' enough for now
I know I need to focus on me and all the progress I've made, and all that's good in my life. But right now at this moment my heart is hurting a lot. And I need to let myself feel that right now. I've been through a lot.
Yes you have. And life is there for you to live it and all I'm saying is, "live it well."
He's not the barometer to measure your value with. IF HE wins the lottery that does not make you "flat broke." He's not the indices for your happiness or misery.
Stop caring about that.
And as far as "gee his w is making it so easy on him" goes, let me tell you that few if any people will not also say "what's he really gaining by leaving a woman like that??"
Finally, don't forget that I have 2 family members who divorced and later, years later, remarried...so yes, it happens.
And, It's not that I've decided I'm not following that marriage contract any more, but I don't need to have a public symbol to him and anyone in my home. If he wants back into our marriage, he knows where to find me.
Exactly. Meanwhile you are LIVING THE GOOD LIFE, and that's what matters.
Okay?
25, you're the bomb.
25, you're the bomb.
I KNOW! And I just Can't help it!.....
25years, thank you for stopping by!
I want to spend some time thinking about your questions when I have a bit more time. It's been a tough week, I'm not going to lie. (Lots of good stuff, but also lots of work and personal stress, and a dear friend going through a tough time of her own).
Thanks again.
Sigh. Struggling so much to be detached but still responsive to positive gestures on his part.
I find that my responses are probably curt. Not angry, but perhaps could be interpreted that way, especially when I don't really engage in a conversation about something he brings up. (He brought up something about our D3, and asked, 'what do you think?'... I just replied, "sounds good".
But I don't feel like I'm in a place where I can do that and not have any expectations.
He wants to go trick or treating all together, which I know is best for my D, and I should be happy about that. But it also feels so hard.
I know the answers are on this board and that others are struggling with the same thing. Just journaling a little bit to give myself a pep talk I guess.
I saw a man on my way home and tried to imagine him as my D's step father. The thought of that was really unsettling to me.
I'm worried I don't feel strong enough to get through this afternoon showing my best self. But I have no other choice. I am brave enough and strong enough!!
For what it's worth, I've been pretty curt today too. I don't have to leap to the bait just because he's in the mood to engage. I am not Plan B.
With three kids, we never did trick or treat together. So that part's ok for me.
I also didn't want to imagine a stepdad for my kids. But I have a friend who divorced her H when her little one was four. She met a great new guy right away and has been dating him for five years -- the first three without her kids even knowing. Now things are super serious, and the kids are participating in that part of her life. I think it's a lot more organic a process for her than just finding a random guy off the street to be a stepdad.
that's how I want it to be if that's the path my life takes. The idea of really taking my time to develop the relationship appeals.
Happy Halloween!
Claire
I think you're doing just fine. I went through the stage where it was too hard for me to be friendly and I'm pretty sure my responses were curt and some days I just couldn't even respond. Don't be so hard on yourself. He's already a fool anyway. Enjoy your night with your D, H is just like a friend tagging along (easier said than done I know).
You have made strides in your changes for yourself and I'm pretty sure you would make a better choice than some man on the corner
but seriously - worry about things as they come along. Unless you're worried about dating right now that shouldn't even be an issue. I have a friend going through a D. She told me she just takes it one day at a time and tries not to stress about what she can't control.
takes it one day at a time and tries not to stress about what she can't control.
There's the one little thing that seems so inconsequential but is really at the heart of how to live a happy life.
That and let go.
takes it one day at a time and tries not to stress about what she can't control.
There's the one little thing that seems so inconsequential but is really at the heart of how to live a happy life.
That and let go.
Ditto.
(Now if I could only apply it in my own life as easily)
...tell me now, what you think YOUR PART in all this, originally, was...and
in what ways you are now different than you were, before.
Thank you for pushing me to remember this. I absolutely played a big role. I struggled with mental health issues (mild depression and anxiety) for years. Even before we had a baby, I was insecure, quick to be jealous or suspicious, quick to criticize. I saw everything through a negative lens. I was constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop in most areas of my life. Getting ready to go out with friends on Saturday night was fraught because I was so concerned about looking a certain way. I didn't love myself.
It wasn't all me-- I can see now that much of what was making me unhappy was perhaps that my love tank was not being filled in the ways I needed it too. But, instead of going out and getting a life and choosing to be happy (and getting treatment), I resented my H for not giving me what I needed.
I was in therapy before I became pregnant, which helped me come to terms with my R with my parents. But I was still very unhappy and I refused to go on meds.
Then, after my D was born, it all got worse. I was more anxious, more controlling (naps, food, etc etc). I couldn't just relax and be happy with my pretty great life. I couldn't appreciate the things my H was trying to do to show me he loved me. I kept waiting for HIM to be the one to change. I felt bullied and emotionally abused a lot of the time. And, it is possible that he IS a bit of a narcissist and DID emotionally abuse me. And, it is also true that I was not a loving, attentive wife, and probably did not fill his love tank either.
It's possible I AM better off without him.
That said, I'm trying to focus this on me-- but of course thinking about my interactions with him (as someone who was co-dependent) are relevant, I think, to figuring out the work I need to do for me.
Why did I stay with someone whom I felt belittled me and who didn't respect me? (he has actually admitted that he has a lot more respect for me now than he did while we were together, so I'm not delusional to have felt that way).
How have I changed?
I have come A LONG way. For the first time in my life, I really like who I am. I need to lose 10 pounds, and I'm not perfect, but I am happy with myself. I don't base my opinion of myself on how I *think* others view me.
I can see the positives in situations, and don't just dwell on the negatives.
I don't have doomsday scenarios running through my head all the time.
I don't beat myself over mistakes and imperfections. I move forward.
I reach out to others.
I don't think everything is about me.
I'm more able to accept the mistakes of others without being so judgemental (though I admit I continue to work on this...)
I don't get paralyzed by panic when a problem arises. I can problem-solve and multi-task more easily.
I have faced one of my biggest fears-- my H leaving me -- and made it a whole year and am PROUD of how I've handled this.
I'm still a work in progress, and that's ok.
And, now that I've been S an entire year, I guess I'm not technically a newcomer anymore? (though I didn't start posting until last March--4 months into this).
I wonder if this is a MLC, or that he was having an EA, or was just depressed (he was, I think)... and if so, does that change ANYTHING about my approach, or how I handle/feel about this?
How common is it for someone to up and walk out on the marriage like my H did, if he's NOT in a MLC or having an A?
Does the reason matter AT ALL?
Still searching for understanding, which will probably never ever come. That is the hardest part. Because I feel like if it WAS a MLC, then I could imagine a point when that would END, and maybe that would give me hope to wait it out. But I don't see it that way. I see that he just sort of gave up and left and... it all ended with such a whimper.
Need to decide what, if anything, to say to him on Monday-- our anniversary.
It doesn't matter AT ALL. My H walked out because he was done. No OW, MLC?(I have no definition for MLC that doesn't include depression as a major component), probably situational depression. But mostly he was done with me and my depression and my anxiety and my being controlling. He didn't have the tools to deal with that because of his stuff but that didn't mean I didn't need to work on mine.
All that matters is you and your journey. Which you haven't really started on. You've been convincing yourself to do it, studying routes and gathering supplies. Set a start date and take that first step.
Why do you need to say anything to him on Monday?
I don't think it matters much or at all. AND even if it is an MLC, so what?
I have not seen data that says they're more likely to return home, nor have I seen anything that would make me think YOUR course of action would change, if it is.
BUT I understand your wanting to know WHY??? And all I can tell you is that i wasted a year of my life asking that question.
the fact is, what reason could there possibly be that I'd be satisfied with?
What could justify doing what he did, in my eyes?
I cannot imagine any reason on earth that would make me leave my h AND OUR CHILDREN for 2 years....that was a "good reason".
Okay, if I thought I could cure cancer by leaving everyone, maybe then....but I'd still want my kids/h to totally understand and agree.
As for the anniversary, either do nothing or....IF you can honestly say that you'd go thru all this again if it were the only way to have your d in your life, remind yourself of that AND
mention how the marriage created her and that you'll always be glad you met him.
My former bil sent my sister flowers after he left her (for OW but no one knew at the time) and they had 3 kids, and a 22 year marriage.
He wrote "It's still worth remembering" and I can honestly say that was about the most decent thing he ever did. Yes she cried, but it was still a sweet gesture from an otherwise self centered fool....maybe you could send a photo of your d and say "I'm still glad we met/married/for all the times we had, good & bad, b/c of HER", or maybe just 'it's still worth remembering with a photo of her or all 3 of you. NOT signed with "love" but more like "sincerely,truly, etc"....
(& yes, my BIL did regret leaving my sister, later on. She's probably the only woman I know who got to hear the grand apology, about a month before she was to marry HER then boyfriend. She still married her "new" guy, and he treats her better than her ex knew how). So yes It happens, & I have 2 family members who later married their exes, so that happens too.
But Claire, now that you see him in a new light, AND assuming that it's a more accurate vision of him, can you see that perhaps he did you a favor?
Regardless, your marriage & this separation have made YOU grow. That's no small thing b/c it seems to me you are happier than you were before and or, you CAN be happier than ever.
Make sense?
"GOOD" REASONS I'd LEAVE MY FAMILY FOR 2 YEARS...
1) I could cure cancer by leaving for 2 years. (Don't ask how. It's rhetorical.)
2) I'd earn $100 Million which I'd then share w/my family, of course. This one is not certain, fyi.
3) MY Cancer, if I had it, OR a family member's cancer, would be cured.
4) ...hmm... I was going to say "if I got to be in a film that won me an Academy Award OR if I got to be in the Senate and making new laws and passing important treaties....
but honestly, I'm not sure I'd leave my family against their will, for #4...
5) If I were certain that the book I'm writing was going to change the world for the better and those changes would last for centuries...(which is sort of like curing cancer)...
--Then maybe I'd go for 2 years even though they didn't want me to. I would sure hope they'd let me try to atone for it however.
So, are you sure you want to keep asking WHY He left? IS there really a reason you would approve of?
What if the "real reason" is that he was just miserable? Does that "help" you at all?
A BOOK?!?!? Comedy, fiction, non-fiction? Am I in it?
Do tell, 25.
Thanks labug and 25years. You've given me good stuff to think about.
25, you're right. There is no good reason, except maybe that he is a horrible person. (he's not).
And, you're right-- he did do me a big favor. I was forced to face one of my biggest fears. And look what happened? I've made it this far with my head held high, career moving forward, new friendships forming, feeling proud and happy.
Maybe my journey starts with envisioning what a new version of my life could be. A new partner, a new family, things like that. I haven't really allowed myself to consider that vision.
I'm a bit torn-- part of me feels like, in order to really move forward, he needs to know that I'm doing that. That means (to me), separating our finances, moving to sell the home, making it clear to him that I'm detached.
But, my DB coach (and probably my L) would say, I think, there is no need to do that. That the fact that HE hasn't moved forward on those things is a positive, and I should feel good about that and just be patient. That the fact that he's reached out and opened up to me a bit recently (recent gift, just today he offered to buy groceries when he took D to the store, trick or treating together, allowed me into his home for the first time last weekend) are all positives, and I should focus on those and use those opportunities to show him a different version of me.
But I feel like the advice I'm getting here is to accept that there's no hope and feel...good(?) that he left... that I shouldn't even want to stay M to him. I think I'm not totally understanding how this all works.
I am feeling tossed around a bit. And definitely not sure what direction to move into. Could I imagine a happy life with my H? At this point... maybe.
Thank you for taking the time to stop by my thread. It means a lot!
So, I've done a lot of soul searching today. Really thinking about the advice I've been given.
25, you asked me if this was more about my pride than about wanting my H back.
I think so.
I have to let go of my pride.
The separation was needed-- I am grateful for this time. But the fact that he has chosen to continue to abandon our marriage and not consider reconciliation after all the changes I've shown... says a lot more about him than it does about me.
For whatever reasons, and in whatever ways, I don't consider him a man of quality. A man of quality might decide to temporarily separate from his wife, in order to "reset" the relationship and give some space for reflection and growth. But a man of quality would not simply abandon ship with no further discussion a year later.
So. i'm resolved. I will show my best self, to the best of my ability, because I am LIVING MY BEAUTIFUL LIFE. But I am not walking on eggshells, worrying if I look good enough when he comes by, or if I answer his barely-friendly txts sweetly enough.
My next biggest fear is learning to live within MY means-- including support by within my means. I need to broach that with him because I think it is the only way to move forward. I am terrified of that. I have become very comfortable where I am, not thinking about the prospect of down-sizing my home, or quality of life. But it's keeping me stuck with hope and expectations.
Maybe this is something you guys can weigh in on.
So, I've done a lot of soul searching today. Really thinking about the advice I've been given.
25, you asked me if this was more about my pride than about wanting my H back.
I think so.
I have to let go of my pride.
and let go of your h? Is that what you are saying? And even if it is, you are allowed to change your mind!
The separation was needed-- I am grateful for this time. But the fact that he has chosen to continue to abandon our marriage and not consider reconciliation after all the changes I've shown... says a lot more about him than it does about me.
maybe...but just b/c he has not SAID he's interested in rec, does not mean he's not. You might be the last person he'd tell.
Don't you think he fears what would happen if you two reconciled and you reverted to old habits?
Also, why do you believe HE KNOWS you have changed? Not asking IF you changed but how or why you believe HE noticed at all?
If he can't be sure you are showing change, then how can we wonder "why" he won't consider a recon?
For whatever reasons, and in whatever ways, I don't consider him a man of quality. A man of quality might decide to temporarily separate from his wife, in order to "reset" the relationship and give some space for reflection and growth. But a man of quality would not simply abandon ship with no further discussion a year later.
hmmm...easy to say but what IF he were "all done", OR had been deeply hurt for a long time, if Or he felt he'd told you while married what his unmet needs were, only to see no changes...?
I guess if it helps you to say these things about him, maybe it'll help you detach. But if you're being unfair or merely maligning him and it's Not true,.....
I think there is value in truth, when we can handle it. Part of life is probably learning what truth is and facing it and maybe sometimes, changing it.?
So. i'm resolved. I will show my best self, to the best of my ability, because I am LIVING MY BEAUTIFUL LIFE. But I am not walking on eggshells, worrying if I look good enough when he comes by, or if I answer his barely-friendly txts sweetly enough.
Fair enough!
My next biggest fear is learning to live within MY means-- including support by within my means. I need to broach that with him because I think it is the only way to move forward. I am terrified of that. I have become very comfortable where I am, not thinking about the prospect of down-sizing my home, or quality of life. But it's keeping me stuck with hope and expectations.
Maybe this is something you guys can weigh in on.
Are you saying that by "moving forward" you will get less money? Hmm, are you saving any now? I sure hope so.
Will your d suffer in terms of life style if you "move forward"? IF SO, why rush it?
I think I need more info...
At least set aside some money to prepare and maybe if enough time passes between now and that time in the future, you'll have enough resources to feel more financially secure AND OR your h will have an awakening....
THEN the question will be what YOU can do when you say you are "resolved"< which means you are "Done." IOW the shoe will be on the other foot.
The separation was needed-- I am grateful for this time. But the fact that he has chosen to continue to abandon our marriage and not consider reconciliation after all the changes I've shown... says a lot more about him than it does about me.
Claire, one thing that has always struck me in your threads is that you don't seem to engage in R talk with your H, ever. I know that's how DB-ing is supposed to be, but I wonder if maybe you're mind-reading here -- how do you know he isn't considering reconciliation?
I do think that you have shown amazing strength over the past year and you should feel immensely proud of yourself for all the things you've accomplished, whether or not your H is willing to recognize them.
25, you are a tough cookie! And that is why I am here. The only other person who has even attempted to push me hard is my IC... and she hasn't come close to the folks on this forum.
Also, why do you believe HE KNOWS you have changed? Not asking IF you changed but how or why you believe HE noticed at all?
I've thought about this a lot, and spent some time last night looking back through old emails. He has said and written an acknowledgement that I've shown bravery and grace. He's said that he respects me more now (specifically seeing how well I'm handling being a single mom) than he did when we were together. (Let's set aside for a moment the implication that he did not have much respect his W who was dealing with major anxiety and depression, including undiagnosed PPD...)
Unlike some other LBS's here, I don't really get any spew. I get acknowledgement and thanks for being flexible, or kudos for being a great mom.
He's made comments when he saw that I had done some cooking (a 180 for me), or noticed when I was driving more confidently (there were a couple of times he was a passenger while I was driving recently).
The last time we spoke about our R, a few months ago, he said he was happy that I seemed to be doing so well, that I should be proud of my progress, but that he 'didn't see a married future for us.'
But, I have to face it. He is OUT. And if he's not out, he's very far from being ready to tell me he's had second thoughts.
As for finances, that is definitely an area I need to work on. I'm embarrassed to admit that.
Thinking about what Card wrote on Maybell's thread about male/female friendships.
My H had at least a couple of female co-worker friends who were single (or at least, not married). He was/is fairly close with them--one-on-one lunches, etc. One of them had an affair with another married co-worker. One night, my H met up with her at a bar, very late, after he had already been out with another guy friend.
He couldn't understand why his relationship with her made me uneasy. He got so defensive. I felt like a shrew.
I was such a fool. Why am I fighting for this man or this marriage?
Even if by some chance he did NOT cheat on me, the fact that he couldn't see it from my perspective says a lot about him.
I never told anyone stories like this one, because I was too embarrassed. They would think he was treating me so poorly, and then what kind of person would I be to stay with him? Ick ick ick.
sigh.
My anniversary is tomorrow.
I'm so over this.
I'm sure your anniversary makes you feel tender. I'm sorry for that.
Many of us are aware of affairs and we're still here. Does it matter what others think of me?
I put my kids to bed after a rollicking night with four of their close friends, and S6 started crying because he misses his dad. I'd rather have his good opinion for exhausting all my efforts at preventing a divorce than anyone else's good opinion for giving my H the boot.
You seem so angry to be standing for your marriage. Why is that? What if you accepted that is your position at the moment and examine the reasons you are so angry to be making this choice for yourself?
Do you feel pressured to stay the course by others on the board because you worry what we'll think if you decide you're done?
Oh Claire, you've faced so much this past year.
I can totally relate to not telling people the stories of your truth because it's too embarrassing and they'd think badly of how he treated you and how could you possibly stay? I really get that.
The situation you described... H meeting up with a single female coworker, very late, and him not seeing your perspective. My H had done the same thing and couldn't just come out to say that it felt good to feel wanted (that was me trying to see his perspective). Instead he defended himself and made me feel insane and small. You're right, it says a lot about him.
I'm grateful for you, Claire.
Do you feel pressured to stay the course by others on the board because you worry what we'll think if you decide you're done?
I hope you feel no pressure from anyone but if you do, let me reassure you that my admiration for your strength, your standing, just YOU doesn't dwindle in the slightest if you decide standing us no longer what you want. For reals. Genuinely.
Yes, hopefully you understood that from me too.
I haven't been much help to anyone else lately-- stuck in my own stuff this week and also balancing not feeling well physically, and overwhelmed a bit at work.
But... I just have to say that the compassion and sense of community on this board leave me so humbled and... well, I just can't find the right words to adequately express my appreciation.
Thank you all. So much.
So, today is my anniversary and H sent me the "today will always be important because our marriage produced our daughter. You'll always be important to me. I think it's worth acknowledging that, even if things haven't worked out as we anticipated."
There is a new finality in this note. Things "haven't worked out the way we anticipated"?!?!!
Yes, because you anticipated that marriage wouldn't require any work, and I anticipated that my husband wouldn't abandon me.
Holy crap. I've been fine all day and now I am falling apart.
Is it just wounded pride I'm feeling? I don't think so. This still feels like such a nightmare. Who is the stranger that just sent me that email? I can't even right now.
At least you got one. My H ignored it entirely.
I'm sorry you're stinging, though.
So sorry, Claire.
It hurts, no doubt about it.
For what it's worth, you're not alone.
I'm in Maybell's camp.
Not a mention from H this year on our 23rd, but that's a big improvement over last year, where he ignored the day completely, was nasty to me, made me cry, and this even after receiving a card from me along with a plan to go horseback riding together. (We never went.)
That day he picked a fight so he could get out of the house. I found out later that he went to the mall and bought an expensive gift for OW.
Clearly on that day she was more important than I was.
Oh, then he rerouted the credit card statement so I would't see the bill come to the house. Sweet!
He then went to a bar where phone records indicate he spent the entire time talking to her. He wandered in later on that afternoon and picked another fight that drove me from the house for a three hour drive. I assume this was so he could continue to converse with her. (I think they were actually breaking up at this point, so lots of drama! Must have chapped his hide to get caught not even a week after it was over! Still.)
Stupid me. Still didn't have a clue.
WORST. ANNIVERSARY. EVER.
You have my sympathy however.
I wonder, when does it stop hurting when they say things like your H said to you, suggesting such a final ending?
However, you do realize that you are reading a whole lot more into that then I am?
He also said a bunch of nice things!
Typical for us though, to focus on the one thing that is like a dagger to the heart.
Don't forget, these are just words. For all you know, this is him thinking you're done with him.
It stinks, I know. But it I were in your shoes, I would just thank him for the card and say it was nice.
And it was nice... best to acknowledge something compassionate he does for you, and the compliments he gives you. It means he sees you and appreciates you on some level. Let him know you appreciate it, even if he didn't say what you'd hoped.
I'll bet it was a struggle for him to decide whether or not to mention the day, and then what to say to you.
It took a bit of guts, although I'm sure it's hard to appreciate that, considering.
You can still reward yourself for remaining married through thick and thin. And that is an accomplishment.
So--Happy Anniversary from US.
((((claire))))
---(G)GGG
Thanks. I've been sitting here for the last hour thinking about this. Clearly I'm not detached... from my marriage at least.
I've drafted a long email that basically says, "I understand why you walked away, and I understand the fear of trying to reconcile. Its so risky. But I'll never regret choosing to fight for our marriage, or believing that love is a choice, or that with effort and support, relationships and love can be rebuilt.
And that I hope he is on a path to peace and happiness.
I mean, at this point I feel like I have nothing left to lose. The fact that he can acknowledge today, and write those words make me feel like he is detached. He's made his peace with his decision. He doesn't spew at me, he's not acting crazy, he is generally a good, attentive dad. He has just decided he is DONE. And there is no going back.
So what do I have to lose by validating what I've heard him say in the past, (which was that I didn't understand), that I actually share his fears, and that I don't regret choosing a more optimistic mindset.
I'm going to sit and think if I can accept the worst- case scenario. That's probably that he's in love with someone else. Or that while he "understands" what I'm saying, he still is resolved. I'm going to imagine those responses, decide if I can handle that, and then decide whether to send it to him or not.
I know I shouldn't send him anything (I already sent a 2 sentence response: " Thank you for this note. Yes, I will always have something to celebrate today-- our D"
Claire,
I think the note you sent had just the right sentiment. All the rest is coming from a place of pain...
But you really are mind-reading here.
You're not done unless you want to be. Don't base it on a short note he wrote.
It seems you're reading quite a bit into those very few words he wrote.
The fact is, none of us really have any idea what he's thinking or doing. Not really. He probably doesn't know himself, and even if he does, it could change on a dime.
I know, we LBSs do this all the time, deciphering every little word or phrase or punctuation mark, looking for clarity, looking for clues.
The point is, you just can't know that he is trying to communicate all the things you are concerned that he might be.
He might have really just wanted to acknowledge you. That's a GOOD THING.
Don't make it more than it is.
What if he meant it in the nicest way possible, as an opening to R and you unleashed some emotional stuff on him about your M ending...?
How would you feel then?
Best to think the best of him and accept it as an expression of his affection for you. As Maybell said, it's more than most of us get.
My bomb drop was May 2013, but GUBU had OW and had checked out long before then. He reiterated many times how he was "done" and was "moving on" and "would never want to stay with me" and more... Yet. He's still here.
(Well, not "here" here, but he's hardly gone, either.)
It has only been in the last month or so that I've seen glimpses of the man I used to know.
Even my H's crazy texting from the other night swung from one pole to the other.
So--as my H himself used to say: "Don't borrow a jack".
(Long story, but you don't go to the trouble of borrowing a jack to fix your flat tire unless you know for a fact the tire is flat.)
You're borrowing heartache for yourself that may or may not be real.
I get feeling like you've had it, but make that about YOU and what you want for your future, not on assumptions about what your H might or might not be thinking or feeling.
Okay?
GGG-- thanks. I'm still thinking your words through.
But today, anyway, I really do believe that he's in that small percentage of people who just make up their minds and never can waver.
You're right I'm totally mind reading.
The fact that I haven't hit send yet does show I've made some progress.
He said something yesterday that made it clear he still reads my FB posts. And last night as he was leaving my apartment after putting D to bed, he said, "is there anything else?" .... as if I would bring up some R thing about our anniversary. (I just said, "nope, I think that's it. Good night")
He is not comfortable expressing emotions. But many men aren't, right?
Gah, I need to STFU before someone whacks me on the head.
Geez this is so.freaking.hard.
And several times a day I read MWD's fb posts or tweets, and those of another, similar pro-marriage blog...and they give me hope but also make me feel so defeated.
Why didn't I know about these resources years ago, and why can't he choose to believe any of them? I'm sure he's reading things that validate his position. Maybe I have just drank the pro-marriage Kool-aid, and I'm actually a "chump".
Ok. STFU already, Claire.
At least if you're gonna drink the Kool-Aid, spike it with some Vodka, will ya?
Might as well enjoy it...
For what it's worth, I spent some time reading up on Chump Lady the other day, and guess what?
After about 15 minutes I decided I was the biggest chump ever.
Since I don't really believe this, I elected to stop reading.
Just like when I start to feel old, fat, and ugly, I know it's time to stop perusing the pages of Vogue...
I know it's hard to believe, but your sitch is not that long. Yet.
I honestly believe my H is suffering from some sort of depression and that he has, on and off, dealt with it, but not as severely.
Looking back it's pretty clear. Not to him, but to me.
I keep drawing the parallel between his behavior and that of my parents when they were in a clinical depression. It's so similar.
That's why I can't abandon him yet. There is something wrong, and I know it's not our terrible marriage.
If it can't be fixed, then I don't want to take on this role for the rest of my life, but it's too soon to know one way or the other.
Just food for thought.
Claire, if he's anything like MY H, he may well be waiting for the green light from you.
Stranger things have happened.
Oh... sorry.
I mean my H is an avoidant type. He has dropped subtle hints about "talking about the future" and taking my temperature on the R.
He, however, will not stick his neck out one bit. Too much fear of rejection, is my guess.
I think today if I said: "H, I have decided to let bygones be bygones, and I will stick with you through thick and thin til death do us part, and I will forever be happy, never mention anything you've done that hurt me, and you can enjoy all the porn you want with no comment from me", well, I think he'd be home in a flash.
Too bad that ain't gonna happen!
So what I'm saying is maybe your H was sticking his neck out a little, emotionally speaking. He did something nice. Small, but nice.
Maybe he's looking to you for some direction.
I dunno. After some time I decided in my sitch one of us had to extend the olive branch. No, not DBing 101, but being mysterious and dark was backfiring big time.
So.. I give a little here and there and sure enough, my H is warming up slowly. Still in the oven and not anywhere near edible, but at least approaching proper baking temperature.
Perhaps your H could use a tiny incentive. Nothing like pursuit, just an opening.
See what he does. At the worst he'll shoot you down.
Heck. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?
If you've tried all the other stuff and there's no movement for a long time, maybe try something else, is what I'm saying.
Just--a little baby step with no expectations.
---(G)GGG
So, today is my anniversary and H sent me the "today will always be important because our marriage produced our daughter. You'll always be important to me. I think it's worth acknowledging that, even if things haven't worked out as we anticipated."
There is a new finality in this note. Things "haven't worked out the way we anticipated"?!?!!
Do NOT over read into this! I could have written his note to you! It's totally appropriate in my opinion and pretty classy of him to admit the truth (i.e. that you are NOT where you both anticipated) AND that he'll always be grateful for the marriage b/c of your d, (if nothing else).
Why be mad at ^^^this? What more could he have said and been believable?
I urge you to go look at what I had suggested YOU write and see how close it is to what HE wrote...
Yes, because you anticipated that marriage wouldn't require any work, and I anticipated that my husband wouldn't abandon me.
Major mind reading and all of it, negative. How does this help YOU?
Holy crap. I've been fine all day and now I am falling apart.
Is it just wounded pride I'm feeling? I don't think so. This still feels like such a nightmare. Who is the stranger that just sent me that email? I can't even right now.
yes its' wounded pride AND FEAR....
and I see nothing "more" final in his note, (or less final for that matter.)
He sent a courteous authentic note to you on an awkward day for him...
Relax Claire, you are making this worse than it is. Seriously.
Yes,
That's what I've been thinking. There has been movement lately... since late September a few fairly significant (small, but significant) gestures.
That's kind of what I meant when I said I have nothing to lose. I want to think about how I will handle it if he shoots me down. I want to be ready for that. Or whether I can have no expectations.
But first, I'm going to treat myself to a delicious dinner and a glass of wine. I'm not GAL tonight-- I am doing some self care. And allowing myself to be sad today. That is ok and I'm not going to feel like a failure for that.
25, would love to hear your thoughts on what GoatGal suggested.
Thank you (and you too, GoatGal! ) very much for stopping by. I appreciate the feedback so much.
25, you are a tough cookie! And that is why I am here. The only other person who has even attempted to push me hard is my IC... and she hasn't come close to the folks on this forum.
Also, why do you believe HE KNOWS you have changed? Not asking IF you changed but how or why you believe HE noticed at all?
I've thought about this a lot, and spent some time last night looking back through old emails. He has said and written an acknowledgement that I've shown bravery and grace. He's said that he respects me more now (specifically seeing how well I'm handling being a single mom) than he did when we were together. (Let's set aside for a moment the implication that he did not have much respect his W who was dealing with major anxiety and depression, including undiagnosed PPD...)
Unlike some other LBS's here, I don't really get any spew. I get acknowledgement and thanks for being flexible, or kudos for being a great mom.
^^ Not really the kind of changes I was hoping he'd notice. Anything more substantive? It's pretty important b/c I can't see a road home if he thinks he'd be coming home to more or less the marriage he left...
He's made comments when he saw that I had done some cooking (a 180 for me), or noticed when I was driving more confidently (there were a couple of times he was a passenger while I was driving recently).
So who did the cooking and driving before? Him? The last time we spoke about our R, a few months ago, he said he was happy that I seemed to be doing so well, that I should be proud of my progress, but that he 'didn't see a married future for us.'
But, I have to face it. He is OUT. And if he's not out, he's very far from being ready to tell me he's had second thoughts.
As for finances, that is definitely an area I need to work on. I'm embarrassed to admit that.
Claire, I'm sorry for where you are or feel you are.
From where I sit, you did have some big problems inside and that stinks. But it's also really really harder to stay married to a depressed or moody person (even someone with PPD, especially undiagnosed b/c all he sees is tears and pain in someone who he thinks ought to be pretty darn happy.)
Depression to a spouse feels a lot like a failing of their own. "If they loved me enough they would not always be sad"
AND OR "they are sukking out my will to live... it's draining MY PMA and life energy to try and 'make them happy' when clearly the will not Choose to be..."
I think the impact on a spouse of someone who is depressed, is very under rated.
You did not cook or drive much or handle the money. So, as a wife what did you feel your main "duties" were? Did you work full time? Did he?
I mean, do you feel that it was a lot for him to carry? What if he also had to hope you were not miserable and he worried a lot? I mean, not to slam you too hard on this day, but Let's face it, that's a drag.
I say this but want to let you know that I DO relate to you!
After our 2nd child, I got baby blues pretty badly. I have to confess though, that it came on so suddenly that I was cognitively aware it had to be hormones b/c no one gets that sad that fast...but I did! Fortunately for me, it only lasted a few weeks and rather suddenly, it improved.
Not sure what your situation was or how it could be recognized if you have struggled for years with depression anyhow...but it is draining on a marriage.
I had surgery a year ago (nothing life threatening). Long story but it was a major pain in the butt to heal from, and to do Physical therapy for--b/c the problem with the surgery was/is PAIN CONTROL...
So for MONTHS, I could not walk or stand and therefore h or one of my older kids (who does not live at home), had to do a bunch of shopping, cooking and cleaning for me AND driving me. And moving a TV or pillow or getting ice for my leg, ETC ETC ETC
It sukked for them! (And me--turns out, h is a lousy cook once he uses up his 5 meal repertoire.... 
).
And though no one complained, (thank God) I could see that I was a drag... especially when I was in a lot of pain. And yeah, it depressed me after a few months.
Hmmm...
You know, you could pull a real 180 and thank him for the support he DID give you for as long as he did and THANK HIM for waking you up to the need for getting help b/c now that you have, YOU are so much happier (and implicitly, more loving)
What do you think? Can you pull it off? It sure would stand out to him as a 180 would'n't it?
BTW, Chump Lady is not a place I would like to hang. Full of anger and resentment and little acceptance for owning ANY part of the situation.
Goes against my grain on so many levels.
Sorry, carry on....
BTW, Chump Lady is not a place I would like to hang. Full of anger and resentment and little acceptance for owning ANY part of the situation.
100% agree. It made me want to gnaw off my own arm.
Nope, me either.
Chump Lady is good for a laugh, and I think very good if you've decided it's time to move on and you need some fuel for that fire you need to light under your butt.
Not so good for DBing though.
Depression to a spouse feels a lot like a failing of their own. "If they loved me enough they would not always be sad"
AND OR "they are sukking out my will to live... it's draining MY PMA and life energy to try and 'make them happy' when clearly the will not Choose to be..."
I think the impact on a spouse of someone who is depressed, is very under rated.
You did not cook or drive much or handle the money. So, as a wife what did you feel your main "duties" were? Did you work full time? Did he?
I mean, do you feel that it was a lot for him to carry? What if he also had to hope you were not miserable and he worried a lot? I mean, not to slam you too hard on this day, but Let's face it, that's a drag.
Oh man, you really hit the nail on the head. He felt both of these things. He told me he did not feel like I put as much effort into making him happy as he did for me... and that my sadness affected his mood and outlook.
I was not easy to be with. I was stuck, and anxious, and insecure, and jealous and suspicious and resentful and passive aggressive. I was both a control freak AND couldn't actually accomplish tasks. He carried a lot of the weight in our home. I do work full time, though he earns 5x what I do. He did the cooking, and handled the finances.
So, what did I do? I did most of the childcare. I was home with our D for the first 9 months, BF almost exclusively and since I get home much earlier than he does, even when I went back to work, I did the evening routine nearly every night. He spent very little time alone with our D. I made sure any bills that were not paid on-line got paid, and I am more handy around the house than he is, so I tended to handle that kind of stuff.
But, I often wondered myself-- what value did I bring to the relationship? My family is difficult to be around, I don't have a ton of friends, AND on top of all of that, why would he want to be with someone who was such a burden? Let's just say that THAT feeling did NOT help my depression. Sigh.
You know, you could pull a real 180 and thank him for the support he DID give you for as long as he did and THANK HIM for waking you up to the need for getting help b/c now that you have, YOU are so much happier (and implicitly, more loving)
What do you think? Can you pull it off? It sure would stand out to him as a 180 would'n't it?
Yes. This is amazing advice. Thank you for helping me see this from a new perspective. I am really grateful that you took the time to write all this. I have been stuck in a place of anger the last few days. I haven't seen it enough from his perspective.
Oh, and I totally agree about the chump stuff. It's such an easy place to fall to when you are feeling weak and sad (you know, like on your anniversary...)
I'm not exaggerating when I say that this forum and community have been a major reason I've come this far.
I'm so grateful.. and so sorry... you are all here.
Quick update:
I took a machete to my draft email and sent one that was mostly validating and, like 25 suggested, a thank you. I remembered that I actually did thank him for the opportunity he gave me to work on myself, shortly after BD. I remember telling him that if the best thing to come out of this was that I had the 2nd half of my life to live happily, I would always be grateful to him for that.
But I haven't said that in a while.
So, I opened up and sent a heartfelt note at around 1 am last night.
This morning I get a text: "Good morning. Do you know where we go to vote?"
Me: "no I'm sorry but you can probably look it up online"
H:"google actually has a great feature for that today. Here's our location, by the way..."
A crack in the ice? Who knows. But I'm glad I sent that email and not the one i had originally planned, which was much more self-righteous and accusatory.
Thank you all.
That sounds really positive Claire, I'm glad.
And for what its worth I think it was a nice text from him on your anniversary. Mine came and went with no contact from H whatsoever.
A few months ago I did sent H a text to say I was sorry things had gone this far between us and that I did not expect things to turn out this way. I shouldn't have sent it, but was feeling very emotional after a talk about finances. He never responded. I was gutted. It would have been a perfect opportunity for him to wish me well, or say sorry, anything.
So I would have been delighted with some sort of acknowledgement on our anniversary after 22 years of marriage.
Take care
Claire,
This is what I meant when I said
maybe your H needed an opening.
My H is very much an "Acts of Service" and "Words of Affirmation" guy.
So even though we are separated, I am servicing and affirming my butt off...
(With NO EXPECTATIONS, of course!
)
I realized that in the past neither of us had spoken the other's Love Language very well. I take the hit on that one.
However, I did ASK my H to help fill my love tank in very specific ways, which he refused to do. On his end, he got resentful that I wasn't able to read his mind.
Although I can blame myself for not understanding this relationship dynamic sooner, I did show my love for him in many other ways, including Acts and Words. I just never realized a man could need so much external validation, because i sure don't!
Still, I don't think that my behavior was grounds to cheat on me and file for divorce.
Anyhow, I'm rambling. I'm glad you sent a note that was heartfelt and positive.
Your H has been through a lot in the M, though that doesn't excuse his behavior, and it probably is a warm fuzzy towards you that you recognize and appreciate that.
And yes--maybe a little crack is appearing. Time will tell!
---(G)GGG
Ok gang.... I've got an update.
I got a reply to my "thank you" email. It's mostly very, very good. And, I'm wondering if I need to just sit tight, or perhaps nudge the tiniest little bit, as an experiment.
Here ya go:
Thank you for writing this. It is quite eloquent, and even more brave.
If I had to characterize how it makes me feel, the answer is sad and happy. That you so clearly can capture the essence of what I felt (probably better than I ever articulated it) is somehow gratifying, but more saddening than anything else. No one wants to be unhappy or feel hopeless or drained. I don't think I recognized how much I felt that way, or the ways in which my own biases and instincts contributed to those feelings. And if I'm being honest, perhaps I'm still trying to pull myself out.
I appreciate the thanks you mention, and it's a generous thought to say you're grateful to me for the fact that you are happier now. But you did the work to get to that place. Not me. I'm very very happy that you feel differently about yourself and your life. Your happiness means a lot to me on a variety of levels, and I'm glad that even though there was a feeling of melancholy that accompanied the first part of your message, I was able to finish reading on a very high note -- one that brought a knowing smile to my face because I've had the occasion to see some of the changes.
Whoah. Good, right? Lots of good stuff: he's noticed changes in me. He thinks I'm brave. He's still unhappy, a year after leaving me (so, it's not ALL about me)
But... I was thinking of asking him why the fact that I can now understand how he felt and why he left is "so saddening" to him. What if I said, "I wanted to ask you a question-- and I understand if you don't want to give me your answer, but perhaps it is a question you can ask yourself: Instead of being "saddened" that I can now understand what happened, is it possible to see it in a different way?"
Should I just let this lie for a bit? He's so stuck in the mud. Or maybe he is just now in love with someone else. Can I please give MWD his phone number?!?!
Bumping myself up in case anyone has thoughts to share! Feeling very trigger-happy and distracted today. ..
Hi Claire,
First, congrats on that positive exchange. It does sound like you've made some changes to make you better and your life fabulous:-). That is awesome, my friend.
I'm going to ask you a question. Do you really want to say to your h "thanks for noticing my changes. Why does this make you sad? Do you still not think our m is worth fighting for? How can you not try?" I know you wouldn't send that although I have a feeling that's what's lurking below. But that is mind reading on my part.:-)
I say sit on it for a bit. What do you want to ask?
I'd leave it alone. Let him arrive at his own conclusions. You may push him to a very different answer than the one you think you want.
Why do you think he's stuck in the mud?
Just sit on it. His gears are turning. Silence on your end is going to work much better for you at this moment than anything else, i think.
Rats. So not the answer I wanted to hear! (Pouts and stomps feet in the corner).
And, yes Georgiabelle... you are a good mindreader!
Claire, would showing appreciation be a 180 for you (compared to pre-BD)? If so, you could send a simple reply that said thank you for taking the time to read and respond to your earlier email. I am having a lot of success over here just by being appreciative.
I would not ask him any questions at this point, or encourage him to see things differently. It will feel like criticism or pressure (or both). But I definitely understand wanting to respond!
Rats. So not the answer I wanted to hear! (Pouts and stomps feet in the corner).
And, yes Georgiabelle... you are a good mindreader!
Holds Clare's hand and pouts too. It's not fair, but neither is a black fellows bottom!
patience. My lovely.
Why do you think he's stuck in the mud?
labug,
The tone of his emails suggests, to me, that even though he has sadness about the outcome of our relationship, he isn't willing or able to take a step towards me. His own parents got divorced when he was about 3 or 4, so it was all he knew, and he has said that, since his parents got along cordially, it was kind of no big deal for him. (I think he has some unresolved issues in that area, but if he is not ready to face them, then so be it).
25years gave her M a 10% chance of survival. I give mine 1% or less.
If he was showing anger, or acting crazy, I might give it a better chance because that shows there is a lot of unresolved stuff. But my H seems calm, friendly, detached.
I've also been thinking a lot about our interactions in the last few days. I opened up a lot about my role in our downfall. He thanked me for that, told me he's happy that I am happier now... and yet still has not been able to really acknowledge his side of things. I played a big role, yes... but so did he.
And I've been thinking that this man who cannot--after a full year, after I have opened up about my responsibility, acknowledge any of the ways he specifically pushed me away or contributed to the failure of our marriage--is certainly not the right man for me. Not now anyways.
Part of me--the vindictive part-- wants him to get into a new R because I think that's the only way he'll learn that what he thought was so horrible was actually just LIFE. And that if he hasn't changed the same old Sh!t will come up for him again.
I don't think he's capable of doing that work. I think he believes that you either pick the right person for you or the wrong person for you, and it either works or it doesn't.
Fine, I'm doing tons of mind-reading. But I think the road back together is so long and filled with obstacles that I don't think he can handle. It's taken me a year to get where I'm at... I have seen a tiny bit of growth in him, but not much.
I dunno. Stuck in a negative zone right now I guess. Which means I need to GAL.
Probably best that this thread is dead.
Onward:
Claire #10 See you there.
labug,
The tone of his emails suggests, to me, that even though he has sadness about the outcome of our relationship, he isn't willing or able to take a step towards me. His own parents got divorced when he was about 3 or 4, so it was all he knew, and he has said that, since his parents got along cordially, it was kind of no big deal for him. (I think he has some unresolved issues in that area, but if he is not ready to face them, then so be it).
25years gave her M a 10% chance of survival. I give mine 1% or less.
If he was showing anger, or acting crazy, I might give it a better chance because that shows there is a lot of unresolved stuff. But my H seems calm, friendly, detached.
I've also been thinking a lot about our interactions in the last few days. I opened up a lot about my role in our downfall. He thanked me for that, told me he's happy that I am happier now... and yet still has not been able to really acknowledge his side of things. I played a big role, yes... but so did he.
And I've been thinking that this man who cannot--after a full year, after I have opened up about my responsibility, acknowledge any of the ways he specifically pushed me away or contributed to the failure of our marriage--is certainly not the right man for me. Not now anyways.
Part of me--the vindictive part-- wants him to get into a new R because I think that's the only way he'll learn that what he thought was so horrible was actually just LIFE. And that if he hasn't changed the same old Sh!t will come up for him again.
I don't think he's capable of doing that work. I think he believes that you either pick the right person for you or the wrong person for you, and it either works or it doesn't.
Fine, I'm doing tons of mind-reading. But I think the road back together is so long and filled with obstacles that I don't think he can handle. It's taken me a year to get where I'm at... I have seen a tiny bit of growth in him, but not much.
I dunno. Stuck in a negative zone right now I guess. Which means I need to GAL.
So much of this resonates with me right now. I now it stinks being in that negative zone, hope you get out quickly.