New to DB. Confronted my wife with proof of her 3.5 year affair (Voice Mail), yesterday. She is also dating/flirting with other people she plays raquetball with (text & voice mail). She still won't admit to the affair.
We still live together with 2 boys 11 & 14. I have been trying to be nice to her, buying gifts, leaving notes, working on my issues, etc. for the past 3 months, following other online programs, books. It seems like she just does not respect me. Doesn't want to go on dates together or do things unless it is her idea.
Now that I have really confronted her with proof, it really pushed her away. Where do I go from here?
Yea man, that is tough. You are in for a fight. I do not know if I could be that strong (although I may be in a similar situation). I have posted my situation and you can read if you wish, however three months ago I took the kids to fireworks while she went out with friends (one was single) and on subsequent events I see her interacting with him differently. It wasnt was caused our issues (I can take some blame for that) but it is playing a part.
All I can say is detach, get a life for yourself and your boys (I have two also), give her a ultimatum.
I cannot understand sometimes why we have trials like this, nor do I understand why they do not try to work things out civily.
I have started talking to God recently, it has helped somewhat.
regards
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Mike
Read up on my thread. I am in a similar situation. I did the Plan A/nice thing for a while. I have found that detaching and GALing has helped to both bring her back a bit AND help me feel better. My W still will not admit to the A. But she is showing signs of cooling it with him. I spoke with a divorce mediator and sent this info to my W. I also asked her to find some times/dates that would work to meet with him together. I think this action woke her up a bit to the gravity of this situation.
She is not fully out of the fog yet and has not provided transparency to me. I know that I cannot control that. So my advice, like others, is to focus on you. What did you do to lead up to this situation? What could you have done better in the M? Improve yourself, be a great dad and detach.
Not sure I would go the ultimatum route at this point, but that is your decision. Sounds like you could be a bit early for that.
Thanks guys. We are both Christians, so she says she is. I have been seeing my pastor about what I need to do to fix my issues, that contributed to her actions. I am on track there.
I agree and appreciate you input on GAL. I can't do this focus on her A anymore. It is too painfull. I figure if she is going to leave, I might as well get started GAL and detaching. I did notice when I acted like I didn't care, if she was coming back, after she left that morning of the confrontation. She came back in time to go to church with me and the boys. I had told her I was taking the boys to church.
The message was about Adultery! She didn't say anything. I just pray God is working on her heart. I am going to start working out and also do a phone coaching session, to make sure I set the proper goals and stay on track.
Thanks again for you support and advise.
Mike
I have been trying to be nice to her, buying gifts, leaving notes, working on my issues, etc. for the past 3 months, following other online programs, books. It seems like she just does not respect me.
Hi Mike. Supplication almost never leads to respect. More importantly, since most women tie their feelings of "respect" very closely with their feelings of "love" for their husbands, such behavior can actually cause her to LOSE love for you. At a MINIMUM it kills attraction.
MWD calls it "pursuit" in her books, and it's a big DB no-no. Have you read DB or DR yet?
Starsky
Yes, have you read the books yet?
I just bought DB today and skimmed it to get the main points so I don't do more stupid stuff. I will read it during my lunches away from home. I have a call scheduled with Chuck at DB for Thursday.
I know I opened a can of worms with confronting her with proof. I just need to change modes now and GAL and stop being needy. Just looking for guidlines so I don't come acrossed as a jerk, only confident. Shodan's situation sounds very similar as I read a bunch of his threads today.
W recently opened her own bank account. All of our others are joint accounts. She does have a bunch of her own credit cards and the one I use is joint. I know from one of the voice mails I found she has bought OM clothes. I make way more money than W as she works part time.
I have talked to an attorney about my options, although I am not ready for D. Went to a gym today to look into a membership. Trying to figure out a schedule, so the boys do not suffer from me being gone.
We have a family 4 day cruise scheduled for Thanksgiving with her parents and my parents and boys. Wondering how to handle that?
Appreciate everyone's time contributing.
Mike
Mike
Read the book cover to cover and take notes. It will help you understand the concepts we discuss here.
So first things first. What were some issues the two of you had in the M? What were ones that you contributed and how do you plan to change?
A couple of other things.
Before I confronted her with proof, she would talk about doing things together, like going on a date, but then would not follow through. She would rarely do anything I suggested. If she brings soemthing up again, should I tell her I would think about it? Or?
She would usually just go to bed and not say anything. I have been praying out loud with my hand on her back, every night since I first found out 3 months ago, because she always complained we never prayed together. Last night she told me good night, so I said good night and just did a short prayer, nothing about M or OM. Should I keep doing this as part of my changing?
When we have had discussions about the A, she always brings up that her needs were not being met. I think sex is a part of this. I could never get out of W what she wanted and frankly how she has been treating me the last 4 years, my interest was limited. Can't fix this part now, other than GAL and maybe her starting to be attracted to me again.
Thanks
Mr Bond,
Just saw your post. Here are a few other things I was doing.
I would react with frustration and have angry outbursts with W and boys. I have been working with my pastor on this and have only had a couple sli ups in the last 3 months. Of course she throws it right back at me and says it brings her right back to how it was. She has said that she sees me working on this and it has been better. My boys have noticed it to.
I also was not the leader of our family and allowed her to assume that role. I am working on that and have set some bounderies and stood my ground. She got upset initially but I think she respects me for standing up for myself and has conceded a few things to me.
Of course she throws it right back at me and says it brings her right back to how it was.
Pay very close attention to these words. If she says it takes her back to how it was, then it is something you must eliminate completely. "A couple of slip-ups" is still failure. If you have eliminated 95% of your outbursts, you are not 95% improved, as far as how it affects your W. It is probably only a slight improvement for her, and if you keep having slip ups, you will continue to endanger your M with this aspect of your behavior. Keep digging and make 100% control, 100% of the time the one and only goal.
Yea man,
The gym has helped me alot (cant sleep anyways...up at 4am). My wife has seen a db councelor (Denise) I will talk with Denise today. I find that the W is confused and filled with guilt over this. She has "detached" from me sexally and passionatly and looks at other (remarried or OP) and wishes that for her and me....this could be your wifes issue also. For me it is a waiting game. She has stated that she thinks seperation is the key for her in which I reply that we can get her a apartment across the street...to which she says no (she doesn't want to look like the one that is not trying in front of the kids). However that is the only option I will accept. She has a emotional attatchment (I believe) with a OM, however I do not think he sees it. Lots of pain right now, much love for her and my kids. All I can do is wait and show her and the kids that I have changed and support her (difficult cause I do resent the fact that she is considering S and the OM). Anyone have thoughts on my refusal to move out?
Thank you for telling it to me straight. Only I can control my emotions and how I react.
" I have been working with my pastor on this and have only had a couple sli ups in the last 3 months. Of course she throws it right back at me and says it brings her right back to how it was."
She's right. 3 months and you still blew up is a failure. 3 months you are doing "better" and you expect her to see that you've made a life change? Doesn't work that way. You have to earn that back from her.
"She has said that she sees me working on this and it has been better. My boys have noticed it to. "
Well that's a good thing but it will take a long time for it to be healed.
Thanks for holding me accountable. I need to stop comparing her faults "A" which seems so much bigger to me and stop minimizing my issues.
Talked to Chuck at DB today. He said she is a WAW. Need to detach and GAL. Need to set another appointment with Chuck as much of the time was spent giving all the background on my sich.
Trying out a gym in the am and planning on signing up on Saturday if all goes well. Also going to talk to some friends about going shooting soon. So busy with the boys, trying to come up with other things that I can get excited about and put a bounce back in my step. Any ideas are welcome.
W got a card today from one of her girlfriends to hang in there and trust the Lord, blue skys will come. So I know she is talking to her girlfriends about our "marital problems" but guarantee not telling the whole story. Can't worry about that.
Did you finish reading the book?
Do not mention anything religious to her and pray with her unless she asks to.
I have not finished the book yet. Only have time to read on my lunch hour. Going to try and get away this Sunday for a few hours to read more.
I have read several times now to not bring up anything religious. Is it because that puts pressure on her? She use to complain I never prayed with her, so I thought I was doing the opposite. She never responds at all when I do pray. Any insights on this?
I have been praying out loud with my hand on her back, every night since I first found out 3 months ago, because she always complained we never prayed together. Last night she told me good night, so I said good night and just did a short prayer, nothing about M or OM. Should I keep doing this as part of my changing?
Mike, am I to understand from this that you were praying -- out loud -- over your wife at night, mentioning her adultery and OM in your prayers???
"Is it because that puts pressure on her?"
Yes. When you pray together, does she tense up? Does she seem uncomfortable? I know you said she doesn't respond but did she say things before?
"Any insights on this?"
After the BD, it's not uncommon for the LBS to try and do an immediate 180 and do all of the things that the WAS wanted before. Problem is that the WAS no longer wants it from the LBS because they were ignored for so long. So that's why they'd rather get those actions from another person.
No. I have not been! Just praying for whatever was happening with the boys and maybe W work or friends with illnesses.
Starsky, I'm still trying to learn the abbreviations. What does LBS, BD & WAS stand for?
Here is the link to help you with abbreviations.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063#Post2183063You are in a difficult spot with your W. Most WAW'S (walk away wives) have a laundry list of complaints against their H. Perhaps she longed for you to do certain things for years that you ignored. Now that she is not interested in the marriage, naturally you feel doing all those things she wanted should solve the problem. Makes sense, doesn't it? However, things are much more complex now. She has changed. Her mindset is different now. Her feelings for you have changed. She may still have a love for you but it is more like a brother-sister type, not the man-woman attraction.
Most WAW'S have resentment stored up that comes to the surface. She may get angry at you when you try to do the things she once wanted. She is angry b/c you waited until she was through before you stepped up to do anything about it.
The anger mixed with the unattraction equals a no win solution when you try to please her. In fact, whenever you do those things to plead her, she feels you are trying to make brownie points......and it just turns her colder than ever. So, I suggest you do not try to do things in hopes of scoring points with her.
You can, however, take her complaints in consideration. Would it make you a better man if you were to change that particular behavior? Would it make you feel better about yourself? If it would, then do it. But do it for yourself and for your own personal growth.
If you are looking back to see if she is noticing your changes, then you need to question your motives.
I will give you a tip about a WAW. Don't waste your time in trying to
please her or make her happy. She has to work that out herself. All she can see in you and the M are the negatives. The more you try to convince her otherwise, the more she will resist.
Almost everything out of your mouth or the actions you do will be pressure on her. You won't be able to see it or understand it, but nevertheless.....it is pressure to her. So what are you to do? I suggest you stop trying to get her back. Take you focus off her.
This may sound rather selfish, but the end results are to become a man any woman would be a fool to leave (which is not selfish). But it does call for your focus to be on yourself while you accomplish that goal. Set personal goals of personal and spiritual goals. Live your life by keeping your calendar full of things you want to do that does not have ties to her. Get involved in new things or old ones that fell by the wayside. But don't do it with hopes of impressing her. If you do, she will see right through you.
Most LBS (left behind husbands) want to pursue the WAW. That does not work. You become a man she respects and desires and let her come to you.
Your situation sounds very similar to mine why do they go so cold like that. She is like my wife with a personality transplant. Or an alien? It's like at some level she is trying so hard to get me not to like her, they just switch off.
Thank you! I have just recently came to that conclusion. I am just going to work on myself and what I want. All the things you said. That way if she doesn't want to ever reconcile, I have already moved on mentally. I may not even want her back at some point.
I know it will not always be easy, but better than going straight for the D.
Going to go out tomorrow afternoon, without giving any details, and find a quiet place to try and finish the DB book. Maybe a few other things too.
A question I just thought of. If I have been doing some things prior to DB, that she always wanted me to do, and now if I stop, won't she think "I knew he couldn't keep up with this change very long".
Also it sounds like WAW might better respond to confident "Bad Boy". Any one have a thought on that? Or just be the man I want to become and let the chips fall where they may?
Tomorrow will be one week since I have started detaching and GAL. It is weird that she acts like everything is pretty normal, (she has normal conversations and seems happy), other than she no longer kisses me good by. I am definitely not pursuing W.
She has started giving me healthier snacks and no dessert at my request, as part of me trying to get in shape.
A question I just thought of. If I have been doing some things prior to DB, that she always wanted me to do, and now if I stop, won't she think "I knew he couldn't keep up with this change very long".
Well here's the thing, when a WAW is done with her M she will find something to justify her reasons regardless of how diligent you work to please her. That is why you have to get your focus off trying to do all those things for her b/c you're just spinning your wheels. Besides, you become a slave to that particular mentality. The more you worry about what she could think, the more imprison you become. IMO, it would take away a man's masculinity and self confidence b/c he lives in fear of displeasing her and always worrying what she may be thinking. You will become the "yes dear" man that makes her nausiated. I have found that if I live my life unto the Lord, I don't worry about what anyone else thinks. It really is a freeing experience.
Also it sounds like WAW might better respond to confident "Bad Boy". Any one have a thought on that? Or just be the man I want to become and let the chips fall where they may?
I don't think they are drawn to their "badness" as much as their air of authority and self-confidence. Women like men who have a "take charge" attitude. Not in a bully sense, but more like a leader. He steps up and gets things done, instead of sitting back and being passive. He knows what he wants and goes after it. He appears to be courageous and daring. Those are the traits that attract women......not being bad.
There may be some females who are attracted to the bad boy simply b/c his image represents a type of rebellion, and that is exciting to her. The spirit of the WAW is in rebellion, so she will often imitate a teenager who rebels about limits and standards imposed on her and/or the very lifestyle she has lived. She wants to experience the craziness of a free spirit that lives on the edge of whatever has been off limits in her life. An example would be a role model of what we might think of a Christian wife & mother who suddenly starts living on the wild side......hitting bar scenes......meeting up with men......dressing provocative......picking up bad language/undesired habits, etc.
That is some great insight. It really helps me focus more on me and not on her. I appreciate your time responding to my questions.
Been doing pretty well with detaching. Only some little chit chat about our days and work. Asked her to stay with the boys Sunday afternoon to get some things done. Got through most of DB book and got some errands done. It felt good to get away and do something for me. I didn't talk about what I did and W didn't ask.
Am struggling with lack of connection and affection from a woman. Dreaming about making out and having sex. Some with W and some with other woman. How do you guys get through this without falling into an A like your spouse did? Praying for strength, but it has been tough.
It's tough, Mike -- just prayed for strength, just as you are. DBing is not COMPLICATED, but it DOES require a lot of SELF-DISCIPLINE, and you've hit on one big area that requires it.
I'm afraid I don't have any "magic bullet" for you on this one. I did slip up once and ML to my still-very-wayward wife, but I otherwise was able to "keep it in my pants" LOL both with her and I never strayed with anyone else, either. And it was HARD, because my GAL included all kinds of time at the gym and playing men's softball and stuff and I was getting a TON of attention from other, some-very-attractive, women.
Stay strong, brother.
Starsky
Mike, funny you mention that because last night I had a dream that W and I were ML. The dream felt so real, until I woke up. When I fell back asleep, I had yet another dream that W and I were ML, and was even aware (in my dream) that I had just had this dream so this time it had to be 'real.' Only to wake up and realize that dream was also not real. Talk about a rough night....
Am struggling with lack of connection and affection from a woman. Dreaming about making out and having sex. Some with W and some with other woman. How do you guys get through this without falling into an A like your spouse did? Praying for strength, but it has been tough.
Just adding another perspective here. I miss ML with my W a lot, but I don't have much desire for any other woman. In fact, I find no other woman attractive (I was more objective before the separation). The idea of being with another woman feels like a huge betrayal and step back in my DB, like it would doom the reconciliation. What I'm looking for in ML is the connection that I recently lost, not the pleasure. I'm not trying to sound virtuous and in fact I'm kind of surprised by it all.
How long ago was your BD?
"Dreaming about making out and having sex. Some with W and some with other woman. How do you guys get through this without falling into an A like your spouse did?"
Think about it this way. You vowed to be with her forever, through better or worse, sickness and in health. If she was incapable of having sex for any reason, would you have an A? This is the same thing.
Thank you all for feedback. At least I know I am not crazy and like so many other things with DB, I am not alone with this. Venting and talking it out here in the forum really helps.
W has been talking to our dogs more lately in a cheery voice, like she is trying to cheer herself up or get their unconditional love. It is weird enough I noticed it.
W did cancel racquetball tonight (where she has met OMs), so I could go to a business dinner tonight, which was last minute plans for me. Trying not to read too much into it, but always hopeful what I'm doing with DB might be helping.
Did you get a chance to finish reading the book?
Almost finished with the book. Too many business lunches this week, cut into my reading time. Thanks for keeping me on task.
I don't know if you can see my reply to all the responses I got. Thank you for your insight.
Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if you can see my reply to everyone.
I don't know if you can see my reply to everyone. Thanks for the feedback.
Finished the DB book today. Scheduled to talk to Chuck tomorrow. Spending tonight with S 14. He likes racing RC cars. I do the wrenching and he does the driving. Good quality time together.
"Finished the DB book today."
What is your list of actions?
1) Working last resort - Detach
2) do not initiate any conversations about relationship
3) initiate no physical touch or ask to go out
4) don't ask about where she is going or where been
5) GAL - Work out, join gym. Do things and go out by myself or with friends
6) Spend time with boys doing fun things
7) be happy and confident
8) don't expect anything from W
9) work on my issues
10) be hopeful but prepare myself mentally for the worst
That's not the list I was referring to. In DB, you write down the issues that occurred in your M that you have control over. Then you come up with exact actions on how to fix those issues.
Your list is all over the place. For example, if you say that you are going to "work on your issues", what are they and what exactly are you going to do. For example, if an issue she had was that you were messy, then your solution could be that you will wash the dishes every day after dinner.
That list will keep you on track.
That's not the list I was referring to. In DB, you write down the issues that occurred in your M that you have control over. Then you come up with exact actions on how to fix those issues.
Your list is all over the place. For example, if you say that you are going to "work on your issues", what are they and what exactly are you going to do. For example, if an issue she had was that you were messy, then your solution could be that you will wash the dishes every day after dinner.
That list will keep you on track.
Mike, as you put together this list it's imperative that you try to focus on "the things that sting," as they say over on the MLC forum here. Those marital complaints of your wife that you KNOW, in your gut, are TRUE and that you really do need to work on them to become a better man and husband.
It is NOT done to placate your wife, or try to "hoop-jump" your way back to her (and her to you); in fact, she will see thru that and see it as a net-NEGATIVE. Your tack needs to be "Hey, these are things I'm not proud of, that I realize I need to work no regardless of what happens to us, to make myself a more attractive partner to someone. I still hope that will be you, but I know I'm going to be okay regardless."
Does that make sense?
Starsky
Mr Bond & Starsky,
Thank you for the clarification. I will work on this list.
How are you doing, Mike? Did the kids have fun Halloween night?
Not good. My 14S has never been too big on dressing up. My 11S dressed up for school but decided he wanted to hand out candy, because my W kind of talked him into doing this instead of going out. I am going to take them to burry a time capsule they put together later today.
I am really struggling with living with my W when she continues to see these other men. Sunday morning is especially hard because she puts on make up to go hiking with OM. Then we all go to church like nothing is wrong. It is hard to live this lie and no one else knows what she is doing. Thinking about telling her I am going to sit by myself in church.
I am trying to stay strong. Part of me wants to leave her, but I don't want to leave the boys or my house. She doesn't seem to care if I am GAL. It just seems to make her more free to do what she wants. I am sure she doesn't think I would leave, so she can continue to do whatever she wants. It is hard for me to GAL around her and with all the responsibility of the boys.
I know this is probably normal for this type of sich, but not sure how much longer I can do it. Needs some encouragement.
Do your sons know about the other men?
"Thinking about telling her I am going to sit by myself in church."
Don't do that. Take your boys and sit with them in church. Just not with her.
Mr Bond & Starsky,
Here is my list of things I need to work on.
1) Angry Outbursts - Have been working with my pastor & reading books on why I have been doing this (the causes) and how I need to change my thinking to stop these. I need to think before I react. Has been much better. Today it has been one month consecutive since I have done this.
2) Grumpy - This is how I reacted when I was upset with W. Being more cheerful and positive. Have stopped this altogether for 4 months now. Need to continue to smile more. Be happy inspite of sich.
3) Do more fun things with the boys - Have been doing this (last 12 months), even before I found out about the affair and am continuing. RC cars, Project Car, Burried Time Capsule, Play board games & cards, bike rides, etc.
4) Pray together - Been praying at night when in bed. Just something short about the boys, family, friends, health, work. Did pray about our relationship early on when I found out about affair, but have stopped praying about that for the past couple months.
5) Bible devotions with boys - Do almost every night, when home, as a family. Continuing this.
6) Hygeine Important / Likes Cologne - Now brushing teeth twice a day instead of just in the morning. Eat a mint before I get home from work. Put on cologne after showering every day.
7) Initiate sex more & spice it up - On back burner now with sich. Started excersising and working out, watching what I eat to lose a little weight & items in #6 to be more attractive.
8) Be more confident & sociable - I have a more reserved personality. W never really came out and said this, but I could feel it and from some comments she has made over the years about not having many friends or deep relationships. Read some books on this to be more outgoing, initiate time with friends to do things together. Not letting W bully me. Taking the lead on opportunities that arise. (W is the outgoing type with many friends & relationships).
These are the big ones. Please comment and your suggestions are always welcome. Thank you!
No, my boys do not know about them. My oldest son was with me when I found out W Costco card was with another man, but I don't think he thought much about it and has never said anything.
I took my youngest son to his separate bible class. My oldest son sat with me and my W this week. He usually goes to a separate high school class.
Are you saying I should not sit with W? Pastor talked about Adultery again this week.
New to DB. Confronted my wife with proof of her 3.5 year affair (Voice Mail), yesterday. She is also dating/flirting with other people she plays raquetball with (text & voice mail). She still won't admit to the affair.
We still live together with 2 boys 11 & 14. I have been trying to be nice to her, buying gifts, leaving notes, working on my issues, etc. for the past 3 months, following other online programs, books. It seems like she just does not respect me. Doesn't want to go on dates together or do things unless it is her idea.
Now that I have really confronted her with proof, it really pushed her away. Where do I go from here?
I have NOT read your whole thread but before I do I have to ask you 2 things.
1) Do You want to save your marriage, or prove your wife wrong?
And
2) Have you read the Divorce Busting Book(s)?
A question I just thought of. If I have been doing some things prior to DB, that she always wanted me to do, and now if I stop, won't she think "I knew he couldn't keep up with this change very long".
Keep up the changes you were making, which she liked and which were occurring before you learned of the A. Also if the A has lasted this long and IF YOU ARE SURE it has, sounds to me very unusual in that she's not wanting to go off with him...really?
Usually a physical affair (PA) for a woman means she is falling in love with the OM and eventually wants out of the marriage. IF NOT< that's a different matter. I'll keep reading though before I say more
Also it sounds like WAW might better respond to confident "Bad Boy". Any one have a thought on that? Or just be the man I want to become and let the chips fall where they may?
NO not the "Bad Boy" but the strong independent MAN. Please don't fall for the TV version of marriage counseling which = "be a jerk and she'll come around." If your wife is not into being abused (and sadly, some are) then it does not apply so don't turn into a jerk as some sort of tactic. That will fail.
1) Save my marriage.
2) read Divorce Busting only. Would you recommend Divorce Remedy for my sich?
Been doing pretty well with detaching. Only some little chit chat about our days and work. Asked her to stay with the boys Sunday afternoon to get some things done. Got through most of DB book and got some errands done. It felt good to get away and do something for me. I didn't talk about what I did and W didn't ask.
Am struggling with lack of connection and affection from a woman. Dreaming about making out and having sex. Some with W and some with other woman. How do you guys get through this without falling into an A like your spouse did? Praying for strength, but it has been tough.
I am still not clear about your marital issues. What were they? What would SHE SAY?
And as far as the sex life goes, it sounds as if intimacy was a major issue. Can you elaborate?
Mr Bond & Starsky,
Here is my list of things I need to work on.
May I assume that your DB coach helped you with this list?
1) Angry Outbursts - Have been working with my pastor & reading books on why I have been doing this (the causes) and how I need to change my thinking to stop these. I need to think before I react. Has been much better. Today it has been one month consecutive since I have done this.
Good. Outbursts to men are Not the same as they are to women. When a man has an angry outburst, he may think the next day all is well b/c after all, HE is not mad anymore. But to a woman, a man losing his temper is traumatic. The H is supposed to be her protector, not the scary guy.
And so when a husband "loses his sh1t", it is deeply disturbing to a wife. SO MUCH SO that at her core, it can be like the floor is yanked out from under her. And since this was a frequent event, you need to own it and not gloss over it. Are you a lot bigger physically than your wife? The more discrepancy between your sizes tends to underline this more.
It's a big deal. Don't be a bully.
2) Grumpy - This is how I reacted when I was upset with W. Being more cheerful and positive. Have stopped this altogether for 4 months now. Need to continue to smile more. Be happy inspite of sich.
Glad you are seeing this. What it may mean is that you were Not easy to live with and in fact, maybe you were a really difficult person. Given the outbursts you confess to (which is great) and this piece of news, I can see that your wife may have felt alienated from you for quite some time. Can YOU?
Regardless, keep it up!
3) Do more fun things with the boys - Have been doing this (last 12 months), even before I found out about the affair and am continuing. RC cars, Project Car, Burried Time Capsule, Play board games & cards, bike rides, etc.
Hey, these ^^ are great ideas! No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her chldren with their dad. Be the best dad you can be for them, and for you. And the bonus is that it's a turn on for most women. Indeed some women stay with a man solely because he's a good dad or good provider...
4) Pray together - Been praying at night when in bed. Just something short about the boys, family, friends, health, work. Did pray about our relationship early on when I found out about affair, but have stopped praying about that for the past couple months.
Glad you are not talking about an A. Be mindful of playing the holier than thou routine. It's a huge turn off. Remember that your wife has justified the affair b/c she felt her needs were unmet for so long.
So to HER, you pushed her into the arms of OM and have no "right" to be mad at her.
5) Bible devotions with boys - Do almost every night, when home, as a family. Continuing this.
6) Hygeine Important / Likes Cologne - Now brushing teeth twice a day instead of just in the morning. Eat a mint before I get home from work. Put on cologne after showering every day.
Great. Peresonal hygiene is huge. Are you in good physical shape? Women love to feel protected and we are feel safer with a man who can open the pickle jar or mow the lawn without getting out of breath...not to mention making love to us without seeming as if a heart attack is minutes away..
7) Initiate sex more & spice it up - On back burner now with sich. Started excersising and working out, watching what I eat to lose a little weight & items in #6 to be more attractive.
Why is it on the back burner? What does your DB coach say about that? (not people here, but the DB coach?)
8) Be more confident & sociable - I have a more reserved personality. W never really came out and said this, but I could feel it and from some comments she has made over the years about not having many friends or deep relationships.
Good insight.
Read some books on this to be more outgoing, initiate time with friends to do things together. Not letting W bully me. Taking the lead on opportunities that arise. (W is the outgoing type with many friends & relationships).
Maybe she's a good role model for this specific trait? Have you ever complimented her about it? What are her love languages? Have you read the "Five Love Languages" yet? I think you'd like it.
These are the big ones. Please comment and your suggestions are always welcome. Thank you!
See above. Keep on keeping on
25,
Wish I could believe the comment about WAW and the loving interactions a dad has w/his kids.
25,
Wish I could believe the comment about WAW and the loving interactions a dad has w/his kids.
Why wouldn't you? You think your wife doesn't care about the kids and their happiness, or she does not believe you care? Or what?
Saying "No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her children and their dad" is something I stand by. I'm certain of it, but let me qualify it.
No mentally healthy woman is unmoved. So are you saying your wife is nuts? Or evil?
1) Save my marriage.
2) read Divorce Busting only. Would you recommend Divorce Remedy for my sich?
They're similar. Div Remedy is like the 2nd edition of Div Busting, imo. But it has a bit more techniques and a bit less of why divorce sukks.
That's how I recall them and btw, I read them both, at least 2-3 times.Also read the Five Love Languages, which was an easy read with good reminders.
And "Boundaries" which is probably mandatory for co-dependents and those who are lousy with boundaries. Also I heard but did not read "Co Dependent No More" is good and my sister said "After the Affair" was excellent.
Til your wife is sure she wants to work on the m, of course those books are only for you. And most of them will always be only for you.
Can you elaborate on or answer the other questions I Posted?
Like what the marital issues were and what SHE would say if she were here?
Thanks.
25,
Wish I could believe the comment about WAW and the loving interactions a dad has w/his kids.
Why wouldn't you? You think your wife doesn't care about the kids and their happiness, or she does not believe you care? Or what? Saying "No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her children and their dad" is something I stand by. I'm certain of it, but let me qualify it. No mentally healthy woman is unmoved. So are you saying your wife is nuts? Or evil? I sympathize with bravo61. It seems like my W is using my good parenting as a rationale (not a reason) for leaving me. I'll remain the dad anyway so the kids will not lose that. And we get along so well about parenting issues, which is the only thing we'll have to communicate about. Perfect! (imagine how it feels to be told being a good dad makes it easier to leave you...) She even
called me last Thursday because she was overwhelmed by D6's attitude. I listened, reassured that it was sometimes hard for me too and gave her some tips (I doubt she was listening though). Perhaps I should cut these calls -- it was the first.
My wife treats the kids as work more than people. She's dutiful and does her half, but you can tell she mostly distributes the workload between us and "her" week is the free week. A barrier to our reconciliation is actually the fact that it would mean for us to have the kids 100% of the time. Imagine that.
Anyway, it seems like some women don't factor the good parenting in their assessment of a life partner.
I have to say that to an extent I agree with mozza and bravo on this. It feels like seperation is win win for my W as she gets to have kids but has a reliable willing and free babysitter whenever she needs.
We couldn't go out as a couple as she wouldn't let anyone other than her mum babysit.
I suppose I'm not saying she is unmoved but that the knowledge I will do what's in the best interests of the kids makes it a lot easier for her as it reduces the harm to them and she gets the freedom she craves.
Having said that I 100% think you should try to be the best dad you can.
I don't understand what you men are saying. Or maybe you don't understand what 25yrs is saying. What
if your assumptions are correct about your W's? Are you going to make her sorry, or wrong, by not being a good father to your kids? I don't get that line of reasoning!
Sandi, I think they're basically saying "I will be the best dad I can be, because it's who I am and it's the right thing to do, but I'm not buying that my wife is 'moved' by it."
I think???
Sandi, I think they're basically saying "I will be the best dad I can be, because it's who I am and it's the right thing to do, but I'm not buying that my wife is 'moved' by it." I think???
Yes Starsky309, that's what I'm saying. There's no way I'm going to be less of a good dad because my wife uses it as an excuse to split. I go through this separation with my head high, making every effort to act in a way I will be proud of two, five or twenty years down the road.
I guess our struggle comes from feeling we're working against our own good by doing the right thing. This being said, let me be clear that my W wouldn't have stayed anyway if I was a "bad" father!
What starsky said ^^^^
I will absolutely be the best dad I can because that's right for me and for my kids.
I don't buy for a second this makes it harder for WAW because she is all about reconnecting with her 25yr old self. that's easier when you can guilt free leave the kids. Id find it easier to believe that she thinks she is doing me and the kids a favour.
fwiw, I do think that most wayward wives can still see their husband's good fathering, and at some level it connects with them. It matters. It's just that when a person is caught up in the throes of an affair, they are filled with resentment and SEETHING with a sense of entitlement usually. So it's more of a "yeah, he's being a good father but it's a little LATE, and besides, I DESERVE THIS (affair) -- I DESERVE TO BE HAPPY FOR ONCE!" sort of a thing.
fwiw, I do think that most wayward wives can still see their husband's good fathering, and at some level it connects with them. It matters. It's just that when a person is caught up in the throes of an affair, they are filled with resentment and SEETHING with a sense of entitlement usually. So it's more of a "yeah, he's being a good father but it's a little LATE, and besides, I DESERVE THIS (affair) -- I DESERVE TO BE HAPPY FOR ONCE!" sort of a thing.
Thanks for the reminder. I try to think of it as "believe none of what they say". I'm happy to be a good father and can't imagine that my W would tell me anything to make me stray from this. Now that I know there's an OM, I realize better that I shouldn't take all that she said at face value. Even though I feel used now, I do agree that in the long run, it can only play in my favor. Also, I want to attract a woman who appreciates good parenting in a husband, not just a babysitter.
I hope all of this is useful to mikechc.
Ok, I think I understand now. You guys had me worried!
Final bit from me on this slight tangent but it irks so I just want to add a final 2 penneth worth.
I'm a good Dad. Not perfect but good. And BD hasn't and isn't going to change that. I wash them, clothe them, feed them, bathe them, play with them, read to them, clean them, teach them, take them places, make them laugh, comfort them and make sure they know they are loved. And a million other things. I look after them 3days a week and work the other 4 to out a roof over our heads and food on the table. I tell them off when they are naughty and apologise to them if my temper gets frayed. I've never hit them (don't agree with smacking).
Its harder because I'm sad and this is heartbreaking for my kids. I better know why my W found it so hard given she has been so sad for so long.
My W has said that she used to watch me with the kids and wonder why she couldn't just love me. And it upsets me the automatic assumption that somehow LBH weren't doing enough for the family.
So I suppose my point is that good dad or not the WAW will twist it to whatever fits their justification.
So be a good dad not because its going to help with the M but because its the right thing to do so that your kids have good lives and you get the unconditional love and happiness from your kids and grand kids. Hopefully if we teach them right they can avoid this pain in their marriages.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Sorry if this doesn't help you mikechc
25YearsMLC,
I actual put together most of this list before DB. Here are my comments on your reponses.
1) I never new how deeply it effected W. Doing everything I can to stop this completely.
2) Yes, looking back I see this. Hard to be happy in this sich, but know I have to.
3) I know this is big to W, but I think she knows I would be a good Dad with or without her.
4) You nailed this. I think this is exactly how she feels. Do I ever acknowledge this to her?
6) I'm in average shape, but would not call it physically fit. Working on that now.
7) I have gotten advise from everyone here, DB Coach, Past Therapist, not to pressure her by asking for sex. We are so far apart emotionally that if she did it, like the past several years, it would be out of obligation if at all.
8) I read 5 Love Languages years ago. Can't remember what she is, maybe physical touch. Need to look for the book and research.
It looks like your marriage was restored. I have been wondering about the different advise I have been getting here and who actually saved their marriage. That is who I want to get guidance from.
DB says to do what works, but I have not figured out what works for my sich. Trying to go by DB book and advise here.
Financial issue coming up right now. We were a little short with bills and had to pull some money out of our joint savings account to cover them. W said she was going to transfer money from her account, but has not done so. She just keeps transfering money from our savings. She also asked me about the price of Gold today. We have some gold that we invested in. Concerned she is going to cash that in and put the money in her account. I have not asked her about why she has not transfered the money yet. Any thoughts?
I just wanted to chime in is support of what bravo/mozza are saying. I've never been egregiously lacking in father skills but post-bd I really got my rear in gear. And W noticed. During our last talk, in the midst of rambling about feeling wild and needing to follow this path, she pointed out how amazing I'd been with the kids and how happy it made her.
Makes no sense at all. Is it drawing her back? Maybe in the long term. Does it make her feel comfortable that what she's doing right now is having minimal impact on the kids because I am picking up her slack? Most definitely. It doesn't mean I'd ever do anything less, it's just very, very frustrating, and puts me into a category of devoted family member when all she wants is a sexy thrilling escape.
Thanks for chiming in. I feel the same way. My 11S is disabled and needs lots of care for hygiene ect. and I do most of it in the morning and night, 7 days a week. We have a nurse that takes care of him at school during the day. This gives her time to go be with OM.
I know doing this does not replace what W was missing in her needs not being met by me. It's just frustrating.
Starsky,
This is my W. Your dead on.
yes 25,
i don't believe my W cares about the happiness of my children. she's more concerned with her "freedom" and going out with the girls than the effects of D on the kids. their behavior around her has taken a nosedive since i've moved out. but she has to "think about me! make decisions for ME!".
I have to say that to an extent I agree with mozza and bravo on this. It feels like seperation is win win for my W as she gets to have kids but has a reliable willing and free babysitter whenever she needs.
I could not disagree more with this^^. First, and btw, "babysitting" is when you care for other's children. When you care for your own, it's called "parenting." (Yes it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine to see men call parenting "babysitting" as if they are doing something "extra" for someone else's kids.)
Secondly, your wife has wanted you to be close to your kids since they were born. NOW it's happening and you can be sure she wishes it had happened before. My ex sil told me that my brother was "spending more time with D than he did when we were married." That was a sad reflection on him as a husband, NOT a great reflection on him as a divorced dad... The closer the child is to the father, the more the child resents the WAW for separating her/him from their daddy.
We couldn't go out as a couple as she wouldn't let anyone other than her mum babysit.
I suppose I'm not saying she is unmoved but that the knowledge I will do what's in the best interests of the kids makes it a lot easier for her as it reduces the harm to them and she gets the freedom she craves.
Having said that I 100% think you should try to be the best dad you can.
Think about the implications of what you're saying.
And let's be OVERTLY selfish for a minute. I mean, leave aside what a crummy thing it would be to decrease time with the kids for any reason, let alone to punish her...which sort of seems tempting to you...
But why on earth would a woman who sees the father of her children neglecting them during a separation or divorce, slap her forehead & say to herself "Gee, I guess I lost a GREAT DAD when I left him...Too bad! I better rush back for a reconciliation so he won't be such a neglectful man/jerk..." ??
It SO does NOT work that way.
No, instead, she'll say "I knew he was selfish. What a jerk he is! Thank GOD I left him. NOW I can finally go find a OM who will be a REAL Father to them..."
Aside from the love I Hope you have for your children, and the priority they ought to have now more than ever, Not being available to your kids at this time
is also a lose lose way to approach this.
Women KNOW that when their kids are close to their dads. The kids then see him living elsewhere, so there is NO WIN WIN for the mother who left him and keeps her kids away from a man they know to be their loving father.
You guys are reading this inaccurately up the wahzoo. I"m serious. Your thought process is off base. So what if you make a few of her dates more convenient?
A) it's not only about you and B) her home life with the kids will suffer for HER if they blame her for keeping you away, which they must do if she pushes for a divorce and you've become a great attentive father!
Besides, your take on this is skewed in another way. By implication you are saying that your PMA should not be good b/c then you are "making it easier" for her.
Like you are saying
"Gee, I better NOT have a PMA or be happy, b/c then she won't feel enough guilt about how miserable I am and how SAD I am and how she destroyed me b/c she left me..."
(As if that^^^ would be attractive to any woman.)
You being happy around her may make for more peaceful interactions, but that's a GOOD thing! Your goal these days is NOT to "make her pay" for her choices or "teach her a lesson."
LIFE DOES THAT...
She will Not second guess leaving a miserable man. She MAY second guess leaving an improved confident man, who is now the man she always wished for, or to whom she once was married years ago...
Of course, if your behavior is what drove her to leave, make darn sure it's clear that those flaws are being refined and you are now the man she always wanted you to be.
THAT^^^ is what will give her pause. The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.
Punishing her or Making her more miserable to "pay the price" will Not make her regret leaving you; it'll make her regret ever marrying you.
yes 25,
i don't believe my W cares about the happiness of my children. she's more concerned with her "freedom" and going out with the girls than the effects of D on the kids. their behavior around her has taken a nosedive since i've moved out. but she has to "think about me! make decisions for ME!".
Bravo, don't forget how you got here.
You wrote on your very first post, a lot about your anger and how lousy you had treated your wife. Don't forget all that and blame her for being selfish.
Here's what you said in your first post...
"My sitch-I have been struggling w/anger all of my life & it's costing me my family
---..... So obviously I was angry at God for all this and blamed myself and felt unlockable. Fast forward years & I meet the girl of my dreams. She loved and her only goal was my happiness. That wasn't her responsibility but I let her take it on. Over the years I broke her spirit w/my critical nature and anger.... I didn't plan it but I did it even though she never told me how bad I was hurting her.
For the record, you'd have to be that rare person who is evil by nature to have "planned" to hurt her. You are not that way. But the fact is, your intentions are Not really relevant when your behavior is so poor. Most abusers do not "intend" to break the nose of their wife, but they lose their temper and slug away. After a year or so, Intentions are more or less irrelevant in these situations.
We have been together 15+ years married for 11. To hear her tell it it was all bad because she doesn't want to remember the good times and there were a lot!
It's HER recall she will go by. And chances are that you don't really "get" how bad it was for her or how hurt she was. Also, men with bad tempers (and bullies) tend to think if they say they are sorry OR if they're simply no longer angry, that all the dust has settled. But a big blow up has much more lasting effects on a woman and if fear is involved, which is usually the case, it undermines the whole marriage.
Why? B/C most women want a husband who is a Protector, a man who makes them feel safer, not more threatened. Violent men, and men who yell or throw things are scary. They do NOT make us feel safe. Or loved.
The good news is that whatever good memories do exist, WILL resurface if you don't fuel her negative images of you with more of them. Instead, CONTRAST those negatives with new positives.
If she says you are always "losing your shlt," then you become Mr ZEN MASTER in control of his calm thoughts and confident in control emotions...
Make sense?
So last August she took a job in OR and her & the kids(s8 d4) moved out here w/out me. I stayed
behind to sell the house and needed a job before we moved cause we couldn't 2 homes on 1 income.
Why did the move happen at all? And Did you join them when you sold the house? I would visit every 1 1/2 months. At home I was so depressed cause l missed them &
felt like I asserting them down.
Please explain ^^ b/c I don't know what that means.
Fast forward to May 2014. I get a job offer and start to feel hope.
So this is 9 or so months later? And how were your visits when you did see them?
Begin to listen to God tell me that I need to be a better person and husband. Make the Decision to change and a miracle happens-God takes away the anger that controlled my life. I don't tell W as I want to show her not tell her. So after driving cross country in 2 days, the first day I'm here she says I can't do this anymore. Meaning us! Thing is I understand and I'm not mad at her
-but to not even get a chance?
Why do you think you did not get a chance? You were married for well over a decade. Are you saying She NEVER told you she didn't enjoy your temper? You thought maybe it was okay? But you also said you "struggled" with it all your life.
Think about this from HER Perspective...or you won't get anywhere. What would SHE say about that statement?
I moved out Aug 1st and we've done some things as a family and even went out 1x just me & her (great time by the way).
But she says she doesn't trust me and doesn't care about my changes.
Meaning she does not trust that your changes are real or that they'll last. The "cure" for that is simple, though it may not happen in time for you.
"Consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in."
She cares about your changes. That's a certainty. I think you mean she isn't willing to reverse her decision to leave you EVEN IF you are making those changes.
But are the changes being made to get her back, or b/c you think the changes are needed so you can become the man you were meant to become?
She's not having an affair-but
I'm now the husband she always dreamed of.
no offense, but according to whom?
B/C If SHE said that, then you are in a great position. You merely keep it going and divorce or no divorce, she will most definitely consider a reconciliation b/c you're her dream h!
She's paid the retainer for a divorce atty and wants someday to have a
normal relationship w/someone who will love her.
what do you think that^^ means? Describe how you think SHE would describe the marriage before...AND
then describe what you think YOUR WIFE would like in a marriage. Can you visualize it? Flesh it out so you know what the end zone looks like and where it is.
And then the next minute she cryingbecause she's hurting me so bad.
And saying the classic WAS quotes it's time to make decisions for me. I'm gonna do something for me.
Don't label her comments in such a dismissive way. Is that typical for you?
Those ^^ particular "Classic WAS" are also the words of someone who has had an awakening, & who no longer wishes to be controlled or manipulated or responsible for everyone else's happiness, including/especially the adult man she married.
And they are the words of someone who has not had enough freedom to act without critical scrutiny.
Don't skim over your role in the marital problems, b/c you do so, at your peril.
Hi 25. I think that maybe there are some wires crossed or divorce.t some miscommunication.
Id like to reassure you that I don't see it as 'babysitting' - I love my time with the kids and have worked compressed hours for the last 3 yrs so that I get an extra day with them all to myself. I will take every minute I can get with my kids.
I believe my W only wants freedom to chase OM and that at the moment the kids get in the way of that therefore to her I'm the perfect 'babysitter' (for a while it has seemed her only interest in me is that I love my kids and earn a good wage - she has now decided that's not enough).
I'm not trying to say she doesn't care about it its just it seems to be a long way down her priorities. She's too busy being angry, going drinking and chasing OM.
I think the point we all agree on though is that you should always try to be the best parent you can because not doing that is just stupid.
Oh man, I apologize for the hijack! Got sidetracked.
Mea Culpa.
yes 25,
i don't believe my W cares about the happiness of my children. she's more concerned with her "freedom" and going out with the girls than the effects of D on the kids. their behavior around her has taken a nosedive since i've moved out. but she has to "think about me! make decisions for ME!".
Bravo, don't forget how you got here.
You wrote on your very first post, a lot about your anger and how lousy you had treated your wife. Don't forget all that and blame her for being selfish.
Here's what you said in your first post...
"My sitch-I have been struggling w/anger all of my life & it's costing me my family
---..... So obviously I was angry at God for all this and blamed myself and felt unlockable. Fast forward years & I meet the girl of my dreams. She loved and her only goal was my happiness. That wasn't her responsibility but I let her take it on. Over the years I broke her spirit w/my critical nature and anger.... I didn't plan it but I did it even though she never told me how bad I was hurting her.
For the record, you'd have to be that rare person who is evil by nature to have "planned" to hurt her. You are not that way. But the fact is, your intentions are Not really relevant when your behavior is so poor. Most abusers do not "intend" to break the nose of their wife, but they lose their temper and slug away. After a year or so, Intentions are more or less irrelevant in these situations.
We have been together 15+ years married for 11. To hear her tell it it was all bad because she doesn't want to remember the good times and there were a lot!
It's HER recall she will go by. And chances are that you don't really "get" how bad it was for her or how hurt she was. Also, men with bad tempers (and bullies) tend to think if they say they are sorry OR if they're simply no longer angry, that all the dust has settled. But a big blow up has much more lasting effects on a woman and if fear is involved, which is usually the case, it undermines the whole marriage.
Why? B/C most women want a husband who is a Protector, a man who makes them feel safer, not more threatened. Violent men, and men who yell or throw things are scary. They do NOT make us feel safe. Or loved.
The good news is that whatever good memories do exist, WILL resurface if you don't fuel her negative images of you with more of them. Instead, CONTRAST those negatives with new positives.
If she says you are always "losing your shlt," then you become Mr ZEN MASTER in control of his calm thoughts and confident in control emotions...
Make sense?
So last August she took a job in OR and her & the kids(s8 d4) moved out here w/out me. I stayed
behind to sell the house and needed a job before we moved cause we couldn't 2 homes on 1 income.
Why did the move happen at all? And Did you join them when you sold the house? I would visit every 1 1/2 months. At home I was so depressed cause l missed them &
felt like I asserting them down.
Please explain ^^ b/c I don't know what that means.
Fast forward to May 2014. I get a job offer and start to feel hope.
So this is 9 or so months later? And how were your visits when you did see them?
Begin to listen to God tell me that I need to be a better person and husband. Make the Decision to change and a miracle happens-God takes away the anger that controlled my life. I don't tell W as I want to show her not tell her. So after driving cross country in 2 days, the first day I'm here she says I can't do this anymore. Meaning us! Thing is I understand and I'm not mad at her
-but to not even get a chance?
Why do you think you did not get a chance? You were married for well over a decade. Are you saying She NEVER told you she didn't enjoy your temper? You thought maybe it was okay? But you also said you "struggled" with it all your life.
Think about this from HER Perspective...or you won't get anywhere. What would SHE say about that statement?
I moved out Aug 1st and we've done some things as a family and even went out 1x just me & her (great time by the way).
But she says she doesn't trust me and doesn't care about my changes.
Meaning she does not trust that your changes are real or that they'll last. The "cure" for that is simple, though it may not happen in time for you.
"Consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in."
She cares about your changes. That's a certainty. I think you mean she isn't willing to reverse her decision to leave you EVEN IF you are making those changes.
But are the changes being made to get her back, or b/c you think the changes are needed so you can become the man you were meant to become?
She's not having an affair-but
I'm now the husband she always dreamed of.
no offense, but according to whom?
B/C If SHE said that, then you are in a great position. You merely keep it going and divorce or no divorce, she will most definitely consider a reconciliation b/c you're her dream h!
She's paid the retainer for a divorce atty and wants someday to have a
normal relationship w/someone who will love her.
what do you think that^^ means? Describe how you think SHE would describe the marriage before...AND
then describe what you think YOUR WIFE would like in a marriage. Can you visualize it? Flesh it out so you know what the end zone looks like and where it is.
And then the next minute she cryingbecause she's hurting me so bad.
And saying the classic WAS quotes it's time to make decisions for me. I'm gonna do something for me.
Don't label her comments in such a dismissive way. Is that typical for you?
Those ^^ particular "Classic WAS" are also the words of someone who has had an awakening, & who no longer wishes to be controlled or manipulated or responsible for everyone else's happiness, including/especially the adult man she married.
And they are the words of someone who has not had enough freedom to act without critical scrutiny.
Don't skim over your role in the marital problems, b/c you do so, at your peril.
Hi 25. I think that maybe there are some wires crossed or divorce.t some miscommunication.
Id like to reassure you that I don't see it as 'babysitting' - I love my time with the kids and have worked compressed hours for the last 3 yrs so that I get an extra day with them all to myself. I will take every minute I can get with my kids.
I believe my W only wants freedom to chase OM and that at the moment the kids get in the way of that therefore to her I'm the perfect 'babysitter' (for a while it has seemed her only interest in me is that I love my kids and earn a good wage - she has now decided that's not enough).
I'm not trying to say she doesn't care about it its just it seems to be a long way down her priorities. She's too busy being angry, going drinking and chasing OM.
I think the point we all agree on though is that you should always try to be the best parent you can because not doing that is just stupid.
And plain wrong and probably vindictive (wanting to punish WAW) etc but YES I take your point.
Have not been on in awhile. Trying to get a life, be happy and confident, but emotions and feelings about what W is doing brings me down. She is pleasant to me but distant emotionally. Has been telling me and hear her telling others about how people comment on what a good person / Christian she is, as well as a good friend. All I can think about is, if you only knew the lie she is living. Feeling hopeless and wonder why I don't just file for divorce. It's the boys, our home and the shame. Feel trapped.
Going on a cruise as a family over thanksgiving with both of our parents and wondering how I am going to deal with W. Also still struggling with not having an affair myself. I have needs too. Know it is not right, but think it might build my confidence that I am loveable. At least that is my justification .
Mostly just venting here. Could use a dose of encouragement and suggestions right now.
mikechc - Your W is living a lie right now. I know it's hard because she looks like she's ahead. She gets the compliments, the fun, etc. and you get the pain, the shame. But it can't last forever. Take confidence in the fact that you're playing a long game. It's not about today, but how to reach the desirabl outcome a few months down the road. Perhaps over a year, even.
The uncertainty is very hard to bear, I get it. Apparently, people prefer knowing they have cancer than waiting for a diagnosis. But obviously, not knowing is objectively better. So hang in there, accept the uncertainty, try to get your mind off of it. Don't file for D if you don't want a D.
Even I, who's more tolerant of dating than most on this board, think it wouldn't be good to have an A to increase your confidence. I very much doubt it would anyway. Affairs are fraught with emotions, many of them negative. The sex is not all that satisfying either. Chances are that you'd end up with more problems on your hands.
Come here to see tons of people trying to do the right thing for their M, their children. See that some have been successful. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Mozza
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Is there a way to search for threads on this site that talk about couples getting back together after going through an affair? Right now I think I need to read about people who have weathered the storm and came out to see blue skies again.
I have assembled some success stories in my thread number 3.
Struggling to be warm and caring with W, but still detaching. I think I went too far detaching from her emotionally. How do I move back a little without coming across too needed?
Struggling to be warm and caring with W, but still detaching. I think I went too far detaching from her emotionally. How do I move back a little without coming across too needed?
Hi Mikechc,
On warming up to your W, you remember when you were first dating your W, right? I bet it was fun and exciting. You can do this.
Is it possible that you are not coming across as "warm and caring" b/c you are judging your W and what you think she is doing? This is something I have a problem with too. If not, where do you think it is coming from?
It is because I know there are OM, I confronted with proof and she still denies it. It is hard for me to get past this. I am sure it is my pride. The other thing is that she knows I know, so I wonder how she would perceive me being caring in this such.
You know she's having and affair.
She knows she's having an affair.
She knows you know she's having an affair.
What's the purpose of her admitting it? You described her very much as someone who is not living in reality, yet you seem to be expecting her to acknowledge reality.
I haven't read everything on your sitch, but do you have a plan in place? Put it into action and do the work. Eventually she'll fly too close to the sun on wings of pastrami and her fantasy world will crash. How much damage she does until that happens can't be controlled by you, so just do what you need (and ought) to do and detach from the rest.
Just my humble, late to your party, advice.
-PM
PM,
shame on you! now i want a sandwich
If she got in your face and screamed, "YES, I AM HAVING AN AFFAIR!" Then what? She admits it, then what are you going to do? Admission doesn't solve the problem, and it doesn't cause remorse. What is your goal here? Get off this soap box. You messed up by presenting her with your proof, and now you have more problems than you had before she knew you knew.
Going on a cruise as a family over thanksgiving with both of our parents and wondering how I am going to deal with W. Also still struggling with not having an affair myself. I have needs too. Know it is not right, but think it might build my confidence that I am loveable. At least that is my justification .
Okay, you said you were a Christian, so brother....I'm going to talk to you as such. No where in the Bible will you find where man is
justified to sin. No where will you find that someone else's sin gives you permission to do likewise. No where will you see where it is okay to commit adultery, under any circumstances. God put the man as head of the home, and it is the man who will be held accountable for how he leads his family. That is a serious responsibility! So, you better rethink your position, and your needs, before going out and having an affair.
Are you nuts? Are you trying to pour gasoline on the fire? You point your finger at her and then say you are struggling with not doing the same? You have needs? What makes that any different from her and what she's doing?
Sandi2
You are absolutely right! My only hope in saving my marriage is to do the right thing and trust God. It has just been an emotional roller coaster and I am trying to keep my emotions in check. Thank you for it auger coating your message. I need a kick in the A.. now and then. Focus!!!!
W asked me to take a walk with her and the dogs last night. I did a lot of listening, stayed strong and confident and did not talk about the relationship. It went fine, nothing earth shattering.
This am she asked me to do some minor things that she usually does in the am. I did them, but I feel like there was no reason she would ask me but to emasculate me. Testing me. I did not know how to say no without coming across as a jerk, since they were so minor. It just seems like she always gets what she wants. Am I too nice of a guy?
This am she asked me to do some minor things that she usually does in the am. I did them, but I feel like there was no reason she would ask me but to emasculate me.
OMG, what did she ask you to do? Minor things....like she had you waiting on hand & foot? Like she was a princess?
Opening the blinds. Doing some things for my disabled son she usually does. Should I call her on it now, after the fact? Saying I was thinking about this morning and wondering why you could not do those things... She had the day off too, so it was not like she was running late for work. I have to stop being a wuss!!!
Opening the blinds. Doing some things for my disabled son she usually does. Should I call her on it now, after the fact? Saying I was thinking about this morning and wondering why you could not do those things... She had the day off too, so it was not like she was running late for work.
No, don't call her on it
now, but be prepared with what you will say the next times she pulls it (and she will). It needs to be something short and powerful...not a speech. (Starsky is good at finding the right words.)
I often tell my kids "I'm more than happy to help you do anything that you cannot do yourself."
...and just as Sandi predicted, Starsky came through with the perfect words...
What a tag team!
Thank you Sandi2.
Starsky are you out there? What's your thoughts on how to respond??
What about "Is there a reason you don't want to do it?".
I just gave you my thoughts on how you should respond.
W asked me yesterday if, since I was off work, I could take my son to basketball practice. I already had plans for my day off. I asked her what time. 10 - 12. W had to work. Did she not know about this before? Then she asked me if I could take them to the dentist at 4:30. W gets off at 2:30. I asked her if there was a reason she couldn't do it. She said no, I just thought since you were off. I told her I had plans and wished she would have mentioned this before. She threw a fit. Then the silent treatment last night and this morning. All she said was "by" with an attitude as she left to be with OM. At least Sat morning was her normal time to see him, back when I was tracking her moves. I'm just tired of her telling me what to do! Standing up for myself. Probably did it all wrong, but doing the best I can.
I do this too often myself. Staying flexible for W and then showing it. If you had plans... or if you might... Don't ask her "what time?" or what her reason is or anything else. Just practice automatically and politely saying "oh, I already have plans" and then STFU. Don't explain yourself and don't say you're sorry. This is hard for me. The first time I pushed back on a simple request from W I felt terrible. It's interesting how they still expect you to be helpful kind understanding husband when they're in an A. Oh, that's the impression we gave them of ourselves. That's why they went to OM. If anything's going to change, we can't allow ourselves to be seen as doormats.
Thanks for the message. I needed to here that.
W still mad at me. Hope this is doing what it is suppose to be doing. Re-asserting myself as the Alpha male. Staying positive and happy despite her pouting angry demeanor.
W still mad at me. Hope this is doing what it is suppose to be doing. Re-asserting myself as the Alpha male. Staying positive and happy despite her pouting angry demeanor.
She's testing you, to see how quickly you'll cave. Once she finally sees that her little hissy fits no longer hold their old power of you, she'll switch gears to something else. Like being super sweet, or using sex to control you.
Stay consistent, and you will see!
Starsky
Yea man,
The gym has helped me alot (cant sleep anyways...up at 4am). My wife has seen a db councelor (Denise) I will talk with Denise today. I find that the W is confused and filled with guilt over this. She has "detached" from me sexally and passionatly and looks at other (remarried or OP) and wishes that for her and me....this could be your wifes issue also. For me it is a waiting game.
NO, it's SO NOT a "waiting game". You have work to do.
And telling someone else to give an ultimatum in their situation, when you had not read the DB books was premature. It's advised AGAINST in DBing, btw.
And there are several good reasons for that. Have You read the books yet?
I see you are talking to Denise but have you READ the books that form the basis of this site's philosophy? You can use another approach but I strongly believe in using ONE CONSISTENT approach, whatever it is. Don't mix them up or you'll be unfair to both and imo, less successful by that.
Sorry for the hijack...
-- Lots of pain right now, much love for her and my kids. All I can do is wait and show her and the kids that I have changed and support her (difficult cause I do resent the fact that she is considering S and the OM).
Anyone have thoughts on my refusal to move out?
Most of us think that moving out can be used against you legally (you can check with a L) and or at least be seen as you quitting or abandoning the family.
OTOH, if things are truly that tense, & you might go nuts OR lose your temper, (which you simply CANNOT do)
then I could see a Temporary agreement to sleep elsewhere. I'd be loathe to sign a lease however. That's too "non temporary" and just feels like it'd be going too far away. Too "official".
Do you have a friend with an extra room, or a family member? Again, it depends on your alternatives. Don't stay home in someone's face if they are visibly resenting you. Get Out of the house when you can and if it means taking the kids, then do it. But don't be in a situation that is a no win b/c you will probably lose your head at some point.
Seriously, GAL makes all of this easier. And you cannot detach without GAL. So start there and keep up with the 180s.
Again, sorry for the hijack! Hopefully this will apply to more than one...
Thanks again Starsky. Your the man! She told me tonight I had to go to a store a half hour away to pick up a basketball shirt W put on hold. That I had to go tonight or tomorrow. I have ignored her request and won't cave. W still won't talk to me at all. This is a huge test for me. Staying strong!
Thanks again Starsky. Your the man! She told me tonight I had to go to a store a half hour away to pick up a basketball shirt W put on hold. That I had to go tonight or tomorrow. I have ignored her request and won't cave. W still won't talk to me at all. This is a huge test for me. Staying strong!
Wouldn't it be stronger & maybe more mature to TELL her what you want and don't want, instead of just ignoring her request?
Using words would be better & she won't count on your for something you're not going to deliver (and your son won't be missing his team shirt).
I'm curious. Why you won't just come out & calmly say "No, I won't do that" ?
If you fear her response to you stating your position openly, then I don't think you're modeling what you hope to.
Sorry if I misunderstood this.
25yearsmlc
Your right. I thought about that last night. Part of the reason I ignored her was that the boys were there and I didn't want to confront her in front of them. Maybe I should have, to teach them what a man says and leads calmly.
I agree that just ignoring her request does not show a woman you are being a strong man. She will see it as several other characteristics, but strength isn't one of them.
Since she habitually tells you what to do, have you considered telling her that it would be to her advantage not to make any other appointments or arrangements for the kids (or whatever) when she is scheduled to work or there is some other reason that prevents her being available to take care of it. Her disadvantage is making those arrangements while having in her mind that you will take care of it. From this point forward, when she schedules anything that might require assistance, she should either check with you in advance or plan to take care of it herself. You will do likewise.
When the R is healthy and each S do things for the other one, then it is seen as an act of love. However, when there is a third person involved and the WAS is issuing errands for the other S, the dymatics is completely different. It is an extension of her disrespect. You become her errand boy. She doesn't appreciate it......she expects it. If you don't do it, she will throw a fit. Well, whoopee-do. Let her throw one so big it knocks her out! But you maintain a firm, respectful stance. She can't emotionally blackmail you.
Don't just ignore her request, but give a firm answer and that you are not available to run the errand or take care of whatever she previously arranged.
W told me I put her stuff on Sons iPad. I didn't touch it. I think it must of linked via the cloud and she saw something from her A on his iPad. She said she wasn't going to go to church and had to study. When we got home I found she took all the computers, including my work computer and my personal credit card. She also found my DB book in my truck and some other marriage CDs. She took those as well. I am going to stay calm and demand she returns the items when she gets home.
That is really horrible! Is your work computer password protected? Police needed?
That is really horrible! Is your work computer password protected? Police needed?
Whoah, police? Really??
Please do NOT escalate things so fast!! I love that you want to stay calm.
I took a communication class for trial lawyers and recall that
"When two people are in conflict, the calmer person is the one with the power". The one who Loses their sh1t, is the loser...hence never losing it, (at least not in court.)
First, verify what is gone and who is responsible. THEN address it calmly, firmly.
But be ready for HER to feel victimized and betrayed, which is something you'll have to handle well, too. It'll be a balancing act of validating her concerns with empathy, and asserting yourself and your property rights.
You have the right to privacy as much as she does, that's for sure.
Are you ready? Remember, the power goes to the calmer party...
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