Hey everyone . Dawgy here .Hope everyone is still fighting the good fight . oddly enough I still am too . W is still at home . Why , I do not know . After i Shait kicked OM , I thought shed be gone for sure . I wish I could get inside her head and see what she really wants of me .
I am i bad need of advice on what I should do about what i should do next . Twice shes said she was leaving the end of the month and it never happened .Third time she said she had a lawyer and she was leaving , it never happened . I beat up the OM and she said she was leaving for sure , and shes still here . WTF??? why does she keep saying this and not following through . It is torturous . I think i know what i have to do . I need to tell her to leave like she said she was going to or stop cheating and stay with her family . Either or . But isnt that an ultimatum . I need guidance here folks
Yes, that would be an ultimatum and would not be productive for anyone. What do YOU want, dawgy? Of course you'll never completely forget about the A, but do you think you could heal and forgive enough to eventually have a successful M? That assumes she eventually comes around, too, but don't worry about that for now.
You have to clarify your own heart before you can set a clear course of action. You've seen what acting without thinking does, especially for people like us who are in the midst of the biggest crisis of our lives. You now should know that doesn't work. So do something different! Start with yourself and your own desires, then we can help you with your action plan.
Can you try just maintaining a status quo? That is, be friendly when she interacts with you, but do not seek her out unless you absolutely have to and "ignore" her otherwise?
Just see what happens that way? Sort of a "going dark" even though you're in the same house?
My guess is that her reaction will be like a frightful cat - once you sit down and quit trying to get her attention, she'll start creeping forward....
Dawgy - I'm glad to hear that your still hanging in there.
Try to remember through all of this, you want her to be happy too. You cannot control her. She eventually has to decide what she wants.
After you beat the OM, do you think she's afraid of leaving because you might beat her or the next person she goes out with?
Good point MrBond.
Dawgy, good to see you back posting.
Dawgy, just try to detach and be sweet, friendly and compassionate. You're not the only one going through turmoil. Your W is too.
Sure you may believe she caused it (at least 50% anyway), but it's not the time to point fingers. You were both responsible for allowing the M to get to the point where she considered straying to get her needs met.
Time to self-evaluate, self-improve and self-control.
All the while play nice. No nastiness please. Smile. PMA. And really try to be the H she would be a fool to leave. But no pressure. No pursuit. This will take time. You must learn patience. Try meditating.
Well Mr Bond . Ive been with my W for 27 years and never abused her in any way nor would i ever . Even through the turmoil shes put me through I would never ever consider it . So as for her being afraid of me abusing her , Im sure she doesnt even worry about that however she could very well worry about me assaulting whomever the next guy is or if there is a next guy . For sure , why wouldnt she , Ive already proved im capable of such an action. And to be truthful its gonna take everything in my power to walk away if i see her with that douchebag again . Another man ?? Im not sure of what my reaction would be . You see I warned the OM before I assaulted him via text message and to his face to back off , shes a married woman with children at home . He continued his pursuit in spite of two warnings . So , three strikes your out . Simplistic way to think but it all seemed to be out of my control .
I have minimal contact with her , Im even not sure if OM is gone 100 percent but shes still at home , cooking , cleaning , she was even working in the flower beds last night . so I consider what I did to be a small battle won in the war to keep my family together . Dawgy
Keep up the detachment Dawgy. Make sure to express your appreciation for her cooking and cleaning so she doesn't think you take it for granted. You could even roll your sleeves up and take on some fall cleaning yourself without her asking.
Positive reinforcement is what's needed.
In hindsight, do you regret threatening, and even going as far as beating up the OM?
I can admit the thought crossed my mind too.
"Ive been with my W for 27 years and never abused her in any way nor would i ever ."
And in that time, has she seen you beat someone else up. And seen her son beat another man as well?
"Even through the turmoil shes put me through I would never ever consider it . So as for her being afraid of me abusing her , Im sure she doesnt even worry about that"
Mindreading. You don't know what she thought and is thinking after she saw you assault another person. Violence changes people. Her whole perspective of you could have changed in an instant. Just because she doesn't say anything doesn't mean she's not affected.
"You see I warned the OM before I assaulted him via text message and to his face to back off , shes a married woman with children at home . He continued his pursuit in spite of two warnings . So , three strikes your out ."
It takes two to tango. Your W isn't your property. You don't have a chain around her neck and own her. Even though the OM may have pursued your W, you don't know what your W did to pursue him and it was HER CHOICE to do so. While you may not like it, she has a right to do what she wants.
"Simplistic way to think but it all seemed to be out of my control ."
That's BS. You have control. You saying that you don't is the same excuse that those people in prison say when they are blinded by rage. You are always in control.
And for the record, I did catch my W with her OM who just happened to be her M'd boss twice her age. Then he came over to my place of business and tried to get me arrested and fired for some bogus claim. So I know how you feel. I could have done what you did but I chose not to.
You always have a choice.
Mindsin thanks for chiming in . My sitch is not unlike alot of others on here . however i think my personality defintely is . I dont believe anyone on here has gone to the extremes I have to try and save their marriage . Most on here have been very diplomatic in their efforts . Me on the other hand have lost it several times and even gone to the physical side of things . Not really recommended to do that . Its illegal to start with and i was lucky not to get charged . Do I regret it ??? No , not at all . It showed my anger and my willingness to go to the extreme to keep my wife . But it probably didnt help me with my wife . It did chase OM away but wife still and probably will for a long time not love me . The only thing I can say is at least I stood up for myself and if she leaves she was likely going to anyway even if I had done nothing and detached . I was tired of being shait on and disrespected by the woman ive loved and cherished for 27 years. But moreso i was tired of this guy thinking I was a puss and he could just walk in and take my wife with out me standing up .
Dawgy-In a way, I understand the path that you took. I have had thoughts of doing this (and worse). I know this chest thumping would never help me or our R.
A friend of a friend went this route with his W and OM. It turned out to be an embarrassment for himself, his kids, and wife. He still regrets his decision for losing it. It ended the marriage and 2 years later she married the OM.
I have thoughts that the OM must be the worst type of person in the world. How can someone have done this to his own family or mine. But then I think, the woman I love has done the same and I know that was a reaction and decision based on the troubles we were having. I don't know his story.
I find myself feeling hypocritical if I "show" this hate toward OM (though I do hate him) and am willing to forgive W. This is my inner turmoil. I know that I am a better person for it.
I hope you are well.
No I am not well at all . Im physically and mentally sick dealing with this BS in my life . Every time i look at my wife i hurt deeply inside . Lord I just want to hold her again .I ache for her and cry for her everyday . I was doing well for awhile but have come to a point where Im mired in anguish , yearning for my sweet woman to be back again . But shes gone , and doesnt look like shes coming back anytime soon , if ever .
Trying to cope with everyday life and remain hopeful is draining beyond belief . If it wasnt for our boys I would cut her loose . Let her spread her wings and search for what she thinks she really wants .
Why are the boys stopping letting her go? The current sitch is not a good environment for them to grow up in. And what do you mean "cut her loose"? Are you holding onto or controlling her in some way?
Dawgy, you have to cut her loose from your life. I know it's hard to do and seems so counterintuitive. But believe me, it will give you a different perspective. You have to stop focusing on her. Focus on yourself. Work on improving yourself. Like Starsky said to me just the other day, there are 3.4 billion women in the world and there's bound to be many who would truly appreciate all you have to offer.
You have to let your W find her way. Pursuing her will drive her away for sure. Stop any pursuit. Just be yourself at your best.
It's like trying to feed a chipmunk. You have to stay very still and be patient. That's the only way there will be a possibility that they will even approach you.
Take another run at detachment. I know it's hard. God, I know. I struggle with it every day.
We're in the same boat here, all of us on this site. Sure there are different levels of despair, but there's an ebb and flow with that as well. You were doing very well a while back. Now you're going through a rough patch. It'll get better again soon. Just hang in there and work on yourself. Try reading the Tao Te Ching. It's something I read almost daily to pull me back to the center. To give me perspective. It really helps.
Thanks Pete . Again you have given me a boost and give me some hope . Its been a rough patch for sure . Today is her birthday and I dont know what to do . I took her car on friday and had it undercoated , oil changed, tires rotated readied for winter . That was her birthday present . I wanted sooo much to get her roses and something personal and make love to her just like every year before this . Im so heartbroken that it s not going to happen like that again . I think the only reason she is still living under our roof is that she doesnt want the boys to know whats been going on .I cant figure out any other reason why . I need some guidance on how to proceed with the birthday . Dawgy
Give her a funny birthday card, like you would to a neighbour.
The kids could give her the flowers.
This is not a year like every other. Face it. I know it's friggin' hard to take.
Maybe she's just as confused about everything as you are, maybe even more so. She's the one going through all the PEAs of the A and its aftermath. If she's ended it, then she'll be going through a grieving period like one would when any meaningful relationship ends. Extend some compassion her way.
Again very counterintuitive, but it's the way of DBing.
Ive had a brutal time this week . It was hard but last night we went out as a family for her birthday supper . The boys enjoyed it and she seemed ok . I was very uncomfortable but kept it well hid . She talks to me like Im stupid , she doesnt seem to have any respect for me anymore and IM not sure why . I still work hard , pay the bills , look after vehicles and Im a great Dad to my boys . She has forgotten about everything i have done for her since she was 18 . Either that or she chooses not to think about it because it makes her feel too guilty .
She talks to me like Im stupid , she doesnt seem to have any respect for me anymore and IM not sure why .
I'll go ahead and say it- do you think by chance it has anything to do with the fact that you (and your son) attacked someone who at the
very least was a friend of hers and have not made any attempt to apologize to her?? Think about that and let it sink in before you give your typical response that he deserved it.
Regaining that respect she once had for you is going to take more than paying the bills.
The lack of respect was going on long before I shait kicked the OM . She talked like that to me for the last few months . Like I said before , when I first found out about the affair she was very loving and caring and assurring . As the affair progressed over time she became more distant and colder . At first she said she would straighten things up and for me to relax and everything was going to be fine . Then about three months of suffering by me she comes home one day and says shes leaving . And wants me to tell our sons that the OM is a nice guy and he makes her happy . WTF?????? was she thinking , why would i roll over and do such a thing . Ever since shes asked me to do this and I said I couldnt do that and I would have to tell the truth about the affair shes turned to stone .I really wished I had have exposed way back in March and got it over with . What did i have to lose . Her I am 7 months later still being tortured and trying to keep her dirty little secret
When are you going to quit feeling sorry for yourself and start growing? You're on a board full of people in similar situations but you act like you're the only person this has ever happened to. Yours isn't even the worst case I've read. Not even close. Do you know what I and many others would give to have our spouses under our roofs? You are squandering your gift of time.
"The lack of respect was going on long before I shait kicked the OM ."
And your beating probably made that lack of respect worse.
You did read the books right? I tried going back through your threads but I couldn't find your list of M problems and your responsibility on them. In what ways have you changed since all this happened, for the better?
".I really wished I had have exposed way back in March and got it over with . "
And who would you actually have exposed the A to anyway?
Yeah, Dawgy. Disrespect is typical. You want respect? Detach from her. Become your own man. Work on yourself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Yeah it's a hard row to hoe, but roll up your sleeves & get to work on yourself. It take kahunas but you're not going to get respect by wallowing in your misery.
Make a plan. Did you read my plan. I think I sent it to U-turn or Jefe - can't remember.
Point taken Maybell . I agree , having her under our roof is defintely a good thing for the boys , not so much me . I find it uncomfortable for both of us . If she would be nicer or respectful it would be fine . Anyway Maybell dear I apologize for any remarks or advice ive taken in the wrong way from you . And would like your advice on how i could take advantage of her still being under our roof . What is it I could do to use the gift of time wisely .
I believe she is hoarding money (probably to leave ) but I dont know for sure .Ive asked her whats she s been doing with all of her income because she knows about all of mine . She lists off a few bills but it surely doesnt add up to what she makes by a long shot . I dont know how to address this problem either .Im just not able to make rational decisions `concerning my sitch . Dawgy
Mr Bond . Well for staters I believe i was a good husband . But where I may have lacked in our relationship maybe affection . But she was the same . Shes always been very sexy and uninhibited in the bedroom with me . But outside the bedroom she was always a little prudish . I still love her soooo much . But I cant show her affection very well if she wont hardly even speak or sleep with me .
As far as exposure . Her parents , my parents . OM s wife , his boss , his adult children ,Our families and friends and finally regretfully our children . If it wasnt for our children losing total respect for their mother , I believe i would have exposed . I do not want her children to hate her or disrespect her in anyway , but i think thats she knows and I know that is precisely what will happen if her two sons find out . This is the biggest reason Ive been trying to keep our marriage together. Whether she sees it or not I am protecting her from that out come
Confronting her about her money is pursuing. Don't.
As for showing her affection, it's not all about sex. It's about doing the little things that you did while courting. Thinking of things she would like, from her perspective, and doing them without being asked. Little courtesies. Try to put yourself in her shoes - to see things from her perspective - very difficult but necessary. Have you read Gary Chapman's Love Languages? If not then do so.
And you need to detach your emotions from her behaviour. When she does stuff that would normally drive you insane with jealousy, doubt or grief, detach and look at it like it's a movie playing out. Step back from the emotional edge and just observe. Think of it like a sociological study of primates. Look at it from a dispassionate point of view - like a scientist studying a specimen.
I know it's very difficult to do, and I get caught up in my emotions and imagination daily. But I just catch myself and reel it in. Awareness of your emotional responding is necessary.
I do not want her children to hate her or disrespect her in anyway , but i think thats she knows and I know that is precisely what will happen if her two sons find out . This is the biggest reason Ive been trying to keep our marriage together. Whether she sees it or not I am protecting her from that out come
Is that really the biggest reason you want to stay married, to protect her from the consequences of her actions? That is awfully egotistical and controlling. You're trying to control your W and sons' emotions and actions. You can't control them just like they can't control you. You have to learn this dawgy. It has been said to you on here dozens of times now. Yet every time it seems like you acknowledge and agree, then a few days later post something that suggests you did not learn anything.
Listen to what Peter just said, especially at the end where he says
I know it's very difficult to do, and I get caught up in my emotions and imagination daily. But I just catch myself and reel it in. Awareness of your emotional responding is necessary.
Every single one of us gets the same feelings you do...hopeless, yearning for what was lost, etc. It's what you do when those feelings start that counts.
- NOTICE that you are starting to think or feel something that you know will lead down a painful path
- DODGE your thoughts to a different subject or perspective (as Peter suggests, like you're watching a movie)
That takes practice but it is effective.
Some days i feel like throwing in the towel . I wonder if she came to me today and said she wanted to work on us I would say yes. But how can i come to grips with the fact she has had sex with another man all this time . How can i kiss this woman ever again ? This question must come up in many minds on this forum . Just wondering has anyone have suggestions on how to get over the fact that their spouse has been sexually intimate with another person , likely with out the use of condoms ? Is this something an individual must conquer
When I first heard about the A, one of my first thoughts was "When did we last kiss? Was that the last time we'll ever kiss again?"
The thought was unbearable. So I tried to forgive him.
You can see how that worked out. Yes, I got to kiss him again, and even ML. But without doing the work to repair the relationship, it was worse than just sex. I felt used, and I felt like I was competing with her.
If we both do the work to change ourselves, I'll probably still be aware of her for a long time. But that's all it will be. Just awareness, that I can dismiss. If we do what's needed to truly reconcile, she won't be in my bed with us. (Assuming HE is, which is by no means a given!!)
Hope that helps.
Yes it did help > Thank you for that . Dawgy
Good morning to you all . Dawgy is still wondering how to use the fact that wife is still under our roof to the advantage . I dont want to squander the gift of time . What are some things I could be doing . Detached as best as i can . Ive had ample opportunity to snoop but Ive forced my self to stay away from it and reminded myself of the pain that comes with spying . Too much pain .Im still very confused all the time . I feel alot less dedicated to fight for my marriage than I was a month ago . I feel my mind is getting weaker and is losing the battle to keep the love alive . The love seems to be changing to resentment and just plain disgust
Hey Dawgy, I can relate. There are times that I just feel like calling up the OM and tell him go ahead and have her and good luck with that. It can get downright discouraging sometimes.
I guess we just have to take a bit of a break and try to get centered again. The weather doesn't help either. Enjoy your kids. Take some time out for yourself - go to a movie or go listen to some music. Take care of yourself. That's what I'm trying to do now.
We'll be feeling better again soon, you & I.
Cheers
Thx Pete . Yeah the last month or so has been achallenge . I take my hat off to all you people on this forum who are here fighting the good fight . Its incredibly draining and full of disappointment . A month ago I would never dream about telling my sons eveything and throwing in the towel .I feel much differently at this point . Im having serious thoughts about telling her to leave and working out a payment schedule for her . I think im having very serious thoughts of moving on . The damage to my well being has been horiffic . And to think the person I would lay my life down for has caused this damage is becoming increasingly harder to deal with daily .
Unfortunately I believe that if I told her it was over and to get out she may very likely smarten up and want to keep it together . Unfortunately i think i would tell her its too late and she can go with her POS OM .Day by day I realize life is too short to be tortured like this and I know even after i kick her out it will be a long time trying to find myself again . Never again will I marry . Its not the institution it used to be .People are getting out far more than getting in .
I know theres alot of emphasis put on the LBS being half to blame . Thats BS . I can truly say that maybe I got too comfortable in my marriage and so did she but never once did I contemplate having an affair and destroying my loved ones . Its insane to do such a thing . I would do anything to spare my family from any harm what so ever . But she is a weak individual and not worthy of our family ,or at least thats how i feel today
There is an emphasis here on the LBS's role in the death of the M because that is what we can control. I would agree that an affair is not 50/50 on the WAS/LBS. The WAS is the one that doesn't communicate their pain/suffering/neglect and wrecks the family. But it is almost never about the WAS simply being a POS. I know you must still be really hurt, and I don't blame you. But I hope you're able to wake up to your own faults someday. I definitely agree that you shouldn't be married again until you do so. But even if you're never married again, if you don't learn something about yourself through this crisis, it will truly have been in vane. Maybe you do need physical separation to get to that point of introspection. You are obviously not handling the presence of your WAW very well.
Additionally, I believe that under the wrong circumstances, we are ALL capable of having A's. I don't see how anyone could learn about all of the different people, from all walks of life, that have A's and conclude that they are different than them. That is the definition of "terminally unique". Your WAW was emotionally starved and that pain caused her to do something horrible that she probably never dreamed she would do. Same thing with my W, although she didn't have an A. My W from age 19-28 would have slapped her 29 yr old self for walking out...she never even dreamed it was possible. But she was emotionally neglected, and coupled with severe depression, that caused her to act drastically. The same thing could have happened to you.
Good luck to you, dawgy. I hope you can get to a place of clarity soon because you have not been able to truly receive a lot of the advice you've been given here. Every time I check your thread, you are extremely attached instead of detached. You will not heal or learn until you do.
Hey Dawgy, I'm sure you've been told this 1000 times already but you can't control your W. She is going to do what she is going to do, all you can do is be the best you can be.
You clearly want her back or you wouldn't still be here. You don't want to kick her out because you're scared she will call your bluff and actually go. You need to find some way to accept that you will be ok without her in your life. I know this probably isn't the best advice in the world but you really need to detach and it worked for me. Go out to a bar and just try to pick up a girl. Don't go home with her, don't brag to you W, just give yourself a little confidence boost that things will be ok with or without your W. Remember women are attracted first and foremost to confidence, if you're mopping around your house and acting insecure you'll never turn your W on.
Hoju, I'd watch what you say to Dawgy in that regard. He's a babe magnet from what I can gather and going to a bar and trying to pick up a girl is not the right tact for him. He's already had a couple women try to woo him. Luckily he's been strong enough to resist them - still heroically committed to his marriage. I don't think his confidence issue is anything more than being worn down from the constant rejection of his live-in WAW.
Dawgy, consider this: offer for her to move out. Try to make a plan with her in that regard. You can even help her find a place. Just tell her it's better if you're apart for now. That way you'll be away from the daily in-your-face rejection and she'll be free to consider the consequences of her choices. I doubt she would ever expect you to offer that - but it's definitely a 180 that may make her think.
Just an idea.
Thanks guys for the input once again . W seems to come around a little then right back out again .I believe shes being controlled by the OM . I think they are still on but went deeper underground . Not sure but this is my feeling . I wont know for sure unless i snoop and we know thats not DBing . Im just confused all the time .Im not cut out for this , I feel humiliated alot . Thinking that W and OM are laughing at me because they are doing whatever they want and cant do anything about it .
That feeling is what led me to assault that POS to start with . To top it off i tore ligaments in my knee playing hockey the other night and i have a full blown cold . Wow lololol bring it on . What else can i pile on before I break .
Hoju thx for the advice , i have been able to interact with women very positively very easily which helps the confidence a bit . But the sting of being tortured and abused by the woman I adore overshadows everything . I try to understand how someone you have loved and slept beside for 25 + years can do this to their spouse . Why not sit down and say im not happy anymore , Im leaving . Then leave and start a new relationship after that . But cheating , thats just sleazy and disgusting , totally wrong
Dawgy - I really feel your pain and the thoughts of humiliation. I have had the thoughts of them laughing about this (I still do). I don't know what to think of this - except try to believe that they are not thinking of you AT ALL. You do not even cross their 18 year old minds. It's all about them and there is nothing you can do about it.
It sounds though that this torment is not letting you function - are you doing anything to help remove yourself from these thoughts? Are you doing anything for yourself?
Hang in there - take care of yourself.
Dawgy, stop the mind reading. Even if W is indeed seeing OM I doubt the conversation would be about you. But regardless, you have no control over what she does and you shouldn't try to control her. You only have control of yourself and even that is at times difficult.
I can see you're thinking about her all the time. That's not good either. Get your focus off her and onto you and your life without her. First of all it will improve your PMA and as a secondary effect your positive PMA may be noticed by her - but don't get a PMA for the purpose of drawing her in. Do it for yourself. I know this is hard to do when in such turmoil, but the more you focus on your own life the better.
Withdraw from her. But still be kind and gentle when she interacts with you. It's a tightrope and hard to do. But withdrawing will help both you and your sitch.
Hey everyone . Its been awhile since I posted . My W is stll in our home much more civil lately but still detached as per the plan . I want so much to ask her if I can sleep in our bed again . Just sleep . But domnt know how to ask or even if i should . Dawgy
I don't think you should if she is not showing any kind of affection or positives signs towards you. Maybe I missed it - why did you stop sleeping in your bed? I know she was wayward. Were you just disgusted to sleep next to her?
No I wasnt disgusted although i should have been . But no, she started sleeping on the couch . I told her not to be silly and we were only sleeping in the bed > i wasnt trying todo anything . But she said no . This was here way of feeling separated from me i believe . But she still hasnt left . And shes been somewhat nicer to me but i dont know how to read this . How do i know when if ever she wants to try to make things work
Hi Dawgy. I too haven't posted in a while.
Why don't you just get into bed beside her, turn your back and go to sleep. If she asks what you're doing, just say sleeping in our bed. She may get up and go to the couch. Or she may just shrug her shoulders, roll over and go to sleep too.
If she tries to pick a fight, don't take her bait.
I highly recommend reading the book: Hold On To Your NUTs. I just finished it and I'll be a better man for it.
Have you been working on a self-improvement strategy? What are you doing to be a better man?
Don't focus on her and her problem. Focus on your own improvements. As you become better, she may notice. If she doesn't then it's her loss. You only have good things to gain by working on yourself.
Hey Pete , thanks for dropping me a line .Im down in the heap again . She was being nice and things were feelng better till last night . I asked her if things were better and she said no . She said shes just living day to day . ( well me too )Anyway i told her i wanted to sleep in our bed and she said go ahead she would sleep on the couch . I said i just want to sleep beside you nothing else and she said it aint gonna happen . I asked her if she was still seeing OM and she would not give me an answer .Its been a year since she started her affair . Dawgy
Too much pressure Dawgy. Too much taking the temperature of the relationship. Don't ask about OM. Don't ask about the affair. I know it's enough to drive you crazy. Like Michelle says, it's the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. Just keep a PMA and detach. Don't think about her. I know it's hard to do. I struggled with it. But detaching and working on self-improvement is the only way to go.
3 Cs
Connect
Change
Create
Connect with your W when she gives you the opportunity - don't force it - that doesn't work and only pushes her away faster.
Change yourself - for the better
Create a new path for your marriage. Start with just a visualization in your own head. Don't share it with her - that's pressuring.
But the most important C is Change - change yourself. Be a better man. If she ends up leaving you for good then you'll make someone else a better partner.
Had a bad night on Saturday
Do you want to elaborate on Saturday night?
Hey all . I havent posted much as of lately . Things are a bit different under my roof . W is still here . I told her to go ahead and leave but she seems hesitant . I asked her if she was leaving before xmas and she said she didnt plan on it . She swears she isnt seeing OM anymore but i dont believe a word she says anymore either . Ever since i ve told her to go ahead and leave she seems to be holding in and then she becomes nice . She was very nice for several days but this morning she seems bothered again . Mornings seem to be bad for both of us . I really do feel for her , I know she must be torn up inside from all the damaged shes caused . And now im ready to throw in the towel and she knows it . I didnt think i would get to this point but Im so very tired . It wore me down . Ive just crossed the one year mark two weeks ago and I feel defeated . Ive done everything possible to keep the family together . Ive given space < time < forgiveness, patience . Then i went the other route , boundaries tough stance and even crossed the line into the abyss and committed assault on the OM . I heard things and seen things no spouse should ever witness of the one they love but I held tight . I dont see any end to the madness except for her to leave me alone so i can move on with someone new .
Can anyone out there say something to give me a boost to maybe ignite the flame in me again and continue the fight ???? I hate to tear my boys hearts out , thats been my main concern through all of this , but i can tell they are seeing cracks in what used to be as solid as a rock . Not on my part but definitely the way Mom treats Dad . This has got to stop or she HAS to leave .If she could on;ly understand my ability to forgive and forget in time , but all i see is anger and guilt in her eyes > DAWGY
Dawgy, would you consider leaving yourself? I know the view is generally don't leave the MH, but I did. And if your W won't go, perhaps you could?
Even if you just took on a rental for 6 months for some space & sanity?
Toots :-)
I would never leave . Shes the adulterer, the offender . Its her duty to leave . I would never leave my boys....ever . If she wont leave I will make it unbearable enough that she will unless she opts for reconciling and is genuine about it . Right know she seems to still be hiding her phone . So that tells me she is still up to no good . Dawgy
P.S Thx for the input Toots . Much Appreciated .
Dawgy, It's been a year for me too. W has finally moved back home but won't commit to reconciliation. That's fine. She needs time to heal. I'm busy working on my own demons anyway.
I think you're taking the wrong approach here. At any time in your life you are free to choose your thoughts and your feelings. But it takes practice - like working out. You need to thought-stop every time you start thinking negative thoughts about her.
YOU CANNOT CONTROL HER.
You can only control yourself - and even that is a challenge. But I believe you're up to it. You've got this far. That shows stamina and strength of character. Use those attributes of yours to focus your thoughts on the good things: she was nice for a few days.
When she gets bothered and grouchy, don't take it personally. She is the one having those feelings, not you. You need to detach enough so that her moods do not affect yours. When she's grouchy, you should choose to be calm and content. Observe her like a specimen - an experiment in human behaviour. But don't allow her moods or actions to get under your skin.
The more your can be like that, solid, content, PMA, focusing on the good even if it's just a sliver of good some days, what you focus on will grow - that's just the nature of the universe.
Don't worry about her phone. She may have ended her affair but may still be grieving the loss of that friendship. Allow her to grieve it. She needs to go through that process. It will take time.
Read Divorce Remedy again. Michelle does say, "it's only been a year - this is still hot off the press". She also says the path back to rebuilding is a zigzag. With that awareness, get to work on yourself, focusing on only the positive and controlling your feelings - be happy. It may seem counterintuitive, but you;ve been on this forum long enough to know that it's the counterintuitive things that bring results.
So be happy. Let that happiness be the light around you. You'll be surprised what gets attracted to the light.
Thx again Pete . As usual you are a source of positive feedback and good feelings . You are right . Detachment is still key . I struggle with her ill feelings towards me . Thats the worst . Worse than the affair . To think that shes the one who has committed adultery and thru our family under the bus but is pissed off at me is bothersome . Dawgy
Dawgy, when I first started visiting these boards I saw people who had been S for 3 mos, 6 mos, even a year! I thought to myself 'How do those people do it? No way my sitch will last any longer than maybe 3 mos.' Well, here I am almost 2 years after BD #1 and 15 mos into S!! I can't believe I just wrote that...
I think to outsiders it's easy to look at the length of time and question why we're not D already. But as you know, this is one big roller coaster ride and if you still want to save your M, real progress takes time- lots of time.
The fact that you and W are still in the same house has probably made it more difficult for you to detach. I asked my W to leave the house in March, so not having those day to day interactions with her has helped me detach (I'm still not 100% though). If you don't want to be the one to leave the house (I'm not encouraging it), try to find as many activities outside of the house you can. New hobbies, take the boys places, etc. I truly believe my W is slowly regaining respect for me the more she see's me living on my own, enjoying my life and doing things with the kids- 'oh wait, Tarheel doesn't need me to take care of the kids/house/etc? Maybe I want back on this ride!'
Yes Ive been thinking seriously about telling her to leave . I agree the day to day interactions are uncomfortable . Shes threatened to leave multiple times but hasnt . She says shes stuck because i wont hide the truth and she doesnt want anyone to know the dirty little secret . I cannot hide the truth if she leaves . She said I can but I wont . This is the conundrum . I could tell everyone we just grew apart and we need space from each other and that it is mutual . But its not the truth . So she feels trapped because of me and hence hates me for it . But in reality she is trapped by her own doing > from whats shes created and her fear of owning up to whats shes done .
Hey Dawgy - I understand how you feel - I have some of the same feelings too. I too never thought that this mess could continue like this for as long as it has. I'll be at a year soon too and don't see an end. I go through definite times that I just want it to end - I don't want to move out, but will if necessary and she refuses. I've never been good at dealing with stalemates and usually push for some sort of conclusion.
Just throwing that out there - I know it's of no help, but I am still here to tell you to hang in there and keep working on yourself.
I struggle with her ill feelings towards me . Thats the worst . Worse than the affair .
But these are her ill feelings, not yours. Why are you taking possession of
her ill feelings? Choose to have sympathetic feelings towards her, feelings of love. Treat her with love, even when she is spewing. I know it's hard to do at first, but with practice it'll get easier.
Remember her feelings are not yours. Choose your own feelings and thoughts. You are totally free to do that, and by choosing positive feelings and thought you'll be amazed at how you can improve your day.
Thx guys . I could move out tommorrow with a new woman ,but i refuse to leave my sons . Ive been there for those boys everyday of their lives so far and im not giving in to her . She needs to be the one to go . I only have the boys around for another few years till they are really living their own life so im not pulling out . As far as reconciling with her , ive given up all hope . Shes still not showing remorse and acting like its her right to sleep with whomever she wants
Is the way to look at this to accept that she will make her decision and you will have to work with that? Presumably she has a right to occupy the house if she wishes, and if she decides to, she will. Are you pushing against and trying to control things that are outside your span of control right now?
So, lets say she decides to stay put and you choose to stop pushing against this - what can you do?
*move out and accept that you will see the boys part time
*stay put and make things as pleasant as possible
*stay put and agree some practical arrangements which make it less of an ordeal for you.
Engage with the reality and decide on your plan. Do the best thing for you and your lads. You may be harming yourself most by bashing your head against a brick wall.
I hope this helps Dawgy....
Dawgy. Stop focusing on her. Control your thoughts.
At this stage of the game I do want her to move out . Ive held things together long enough . Now is my time . She will have to live with the horror of destroying her family while I try to rebuild and make my boys feel like they are in a family again . I need to start looking for someone new . There are many lonely women out there that would like to come into a sitch like mine and step in as a mother and wife as long as it is indeed over between us . And truthfully I stll love her but have come to realize that she doesnt love me so its time to face the music . My heart aches for my sons to have to live with this reality she created . Im gonna hold tight till xmas is over and in the new year I will set them down and tell the story . Sadly I know last minute shes gonna chicken out and ask me not to and likely tell me she wants to start again but its too late . Ive given all I can without losing my soul completely .I ve got to say that the respect that ive lost for her is the most painful part . When i look at her now I feel pity and I worry about what will become of her . And my heart aches for the girl she once was . Dawgy
I need to start looking for someone new . There are many lonely women out there that would like to come into a sitch like mine and step in as a mother and wife as long as it is indeed over between us.
Dawgy, just wondering why is this your focus. I get the fact that you are lonely in your own house. I feel that too. But I cannot see how entering another relationship with just this in mind is a recipe for success. Take these thoughts slow, figure out who you are first, get your sh!t together first, take care of your kids first - on your own. They don't need additional pain either.
I think it's great to think that someday there will be someone out there that will fit all of these qualities, but you know it has to be and you have to be better next time.
just my thoughts.
I am with you - I feel this pain too.
I agree with U-turn. First become the best man you can be. Don't go looking for another relationship. First of all it won't be fair to your new partner, having to live in the wake of the disintegrating marriage. Believe me, I've been there, done that and it doesn't bode well for the new relationship.
If you need to, tell your W to move out, so you can get on with your life. Even help her find an apartment or something. You shouldn't be to one to leave. You need to take care of the kids. If she chooses to leave the marriage then she'll have to deal with the consequences of her actions.
Ok thx guys . I guess somedays I just get overwhelmed . I feel very needy without a woman beside me at night . My sleep is all but gone . a few hrs of up and down at night . 4 hrs tops on a good night . So I ve resorted to medication again but it makes me feel stupid the next day for a few hrs . Shes been very nice here and there . Last night for about an hr she was my wife then 10 mins later shes the witch again. I wish there was a pill that I could give her to make her stay her old self again . I know she must be ridden with guilt but i think she fights it all the way trying to blame me for her behavior . Dawgy
Exercise before bed. It will wear you out and help you sleep.
Hi Dawgy, with you on the sleep, take the meds early and slow down with your thoughts. Of course there is someone out there for you but that won't help long term. Try some relaxtion tapes or the like. Take care RD
I am deciding how to handle asking her to leave after the holidays too. I don't feel good about it. I have thought of myself as a somewhat chivalrous person and this is not chivalry. But what can I do? I've also martyred myself through my marriage, not cared about myself, taken the hits so she would be happy.
I don't want to leave but part of me says I can get through it better if I just go. I am torn and all over the place.
I found the pattern too. My wife is extra nice to me when she plans something w/ OM, or feels guilty about being with him. (mind reading, but it's been noticeable). and gets angry when I don't respond to it.
Take care of yourself
Hey Turn buddy , Ive been saying for months now our sitches are very similar . But i strongly advise you not to leave .She must be the one to leave .Remember the kids are the most important thing in your life , not her anymore . If she wants to be she will have to work hard to get there . If she doesnt want to do the work you cant do it alone . I struggled with the thought of her leaving would give her alot of time with OM , but you know what ? she will make time for that anyway even if she stays in your home .
Im not affraid of her leaving anymore . I actually look at it as a new beginning . Yes I will miss the old life alot but if she passed away it would be the same things to deal with . So we gotta suck it up and realize nothing lasts forever . Hell she will in all likely hood want to come back at some point , most do from what I hear but by then you will likely have moved on unfortunatly .
Ive been bouncing between letting her leave at her convenience and asking her to leave . not sure what to do . The Holidays are rough on you arent they ? I know , its killing me too . Anyway buds remember no rash decisions . I know I talk the talk sometimes but alot of it is just venting .. Merry xmas to all my friends here .. thx guys/gals Dawgy
Dawgy, you're starting to detach in a good way. Keep it up. Yes, she will do what she wants regardless. You only have control of your own thoughts, actions and emotions. Keep it up! You're getting better at this.
Dawgy, just found your thread. Your sitch is almost identical to mine....so much so it's scary. I too have suggested that she move out but she says she will never leave the kids so we are stuck. We are in same bed but back to back and house is cold as ice. Just trying keep thing nice for the kids. Now that holidays are over not sure what's next. My job requires me to be gone out of town for 4-5 nights a week and I have taken time off to work on my family and obviously need a job change to be there for the kids no matter what happens. I too am trying to detach and get on with my life while being available in case she wants to reconcile but she is living in an alternate reality. She is Affectionate with the children in every way.... Almost weird. One of her primary love languages is affection and she is filling that need with the kids....it's a little scary how much she rubs on them and at times makes me a little uncomfortable. The best she can do for me is an ice cold, fake hug every few days.... Very weird.
Anyways, thanks for posting and nice to here others are Ina very similar sitch and what works and what doesn't.
Hey Hurt . Good to here from you . As yu can see by the title of my thread , it is a rollercoaster ride . Ive been in this predicament for over one year and i must say Ive gone through some profound changes . None of which i wanted but developed because of the sitch . My wife is a bit inward and never was a good communicator , it has turned out to be a major factor in our relationship demise .
I have reached a point that denial has made way for acceptance .My W is a mess and I am the glue holding it all together . I only ask but a few things from her while shes still under our roof . She wants to keep the secret so it seems but my new boundaries are simple . Treat me with respect in front of our children and if she wants to continue to stay together for the kids then act like it . No more cold shoulders or snide comments etc.
W too says affair is over but im skeptical
Yeah, Dawgy, it's hard to believe when they say the A is over. Our imaginations are fertile and play tricks on us. Maybe you should work on a Dear John note with her for her to send to the OM.
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
OM,
I have made a decision. I want to be with my husband. I no longer want to continue our relationship or keep any secrets from Dawgy. Everything is out in the open. I realize now that I used poor judgment in getting involved in this in the first place and am sorry for that. I plan to get help to understand how I could betray my own values as well as my family.
I am recommitting to Dawgy. Do not contact me again for any reason.
I know this is abrupt but that is the only way. We both knew the risks we were taking. Please respect my decision to no longer have any contact. I will no longer respond to any email, text, calls or other attempts to communicate with me.
W
OM;
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that Dawgy did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay Dawgy for the pain I have caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he’s been missing. I care a great deal for Dawgy and I would not want to do anything to risk his happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
W
Just a couple of examples to run by her - see if she'd be willing to send them. Feel free, both of you, to edit them as you see fit.
Just a thought. It may help bring you together.
Good luck.
This is great stuff Peter - I hope Rzrbck sees this.
Well people W is still under our roof . Shes showing no signs of leaving and hasnt threatened me in a couple months .When I look back at the cruelty she subjected me to I feel sick to my stomach . Forgiveness isnt looking to easy and as far as forgetting the pain caused . That will never happen .
Interestingly enough though I find my self still sexually attracted to her even though I consider her to be tainted now . Hmmmm , a topic of conversation with my therapist i would say .
Anyway here is my dilema as of today . W has been fairly pleasant and has not really shown any signs of the affair still being alive so maybe its the truth .I want back in our bed . The two of us side by side . There doesnt have to be any touching, any sex , we dont have to even share blankets but i want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about .
Im to the point now if she wont do this I want her to leave . The relationship is garbage now if we cant share our marital bed . Im finish with sleeping alone . I want to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. Shes been much nicer and interactive in the last few weeks and now that she knows that I dont care if she leaves shes lost her control over me . Any suggestions ????? Dawgy
She's still the woman you fell in love with, Dawgy. That's why you're sexually attracted. She's only "tainted" because she made some poor choices and she hurt you. You can be sexually attracted to someone who has broken your trust, believe it or not. They're not mutually exclusive.
Dawgy, do you hear how AGGRESSIVE you sound? you're all "She needs to do this MY WAY or get the he!! out!!"
You scare me from here. Especially after the parking lot incident.
What kind of relationship do you actually want with your wife? The kind where you get all overbearing and she complies, or the kind where you meet one another lovingly and share your life together?
Dear Dawgy,
I'm so sorry for your pain.
I read your WHOLE thread (both of them). (*1 small suggestion-- If you'd fill out the signature block lines so we can more easily recall things like your son's ages, yours, etc. it really helps us keep each situation separate).
Okay here are some observations and questions I have for you. It's a lot to take in but I hope you will b/c heck, I'm writing too much too late!
Dawgy, first off, Your anger is not your friend, though you sure do bring it everywhere.
Your anger is an albatross around your neck; it's the enemy of your m. Unfortunately it is such a companion to you these days, you seem fiercely dedicated to keeping Mr Anger with you at all times.
Thing is, the anger consumes YOU...no one else. I learned that the hard way.
I've said (and seen here) the phrase "holding onto anger, to hurt someone else,
is like lighting Yourself on fire.....to get Smoke in Their eyes..."
Give that^^ some reflection.
You are on fire, a lot. The biggest problem is that you resist efforts to process and RELEASE the anger...as in, let it go. As in, do not go pick it back up. You even get upset at those who fear anger like yours.
Second, You have admitted to zero flaws as a h or father. Seriously...
You have listed ZERO flaws or traits in yourself which you wish to change. Not one.
You seem to have no personal self improvement plan (and that's a first here.) and No 180s and the ONLY FOCUS in your posts that I can pick up,
is your w's behavior and your feelings.
Check it out. It's "W did this and that and I feel so angry/hurt/humilated/mad, sick, etc."
The whole time you have been here, the theme is fairly consistent.
Where's the DBing part to this? I see very little. And that makes me sad b/c I know you are suffering.
yet you are also resisting 90% of the advice you are getting here.
(And btw Dawgy, how do you feel you were as a listener, to your wife?
I mean, is it typical of you to just 'not hear" what people are telling you, when you don't like what they are telling you? Do you pretend they didn't say anything or that it doesn't deserve a response? I'm asking hard questions to get you jump started.
3) You continue to ask questions about what you should SAY or DO, about something that may not happen or which you make happen b/c of an incessant need to try to control things... instead of giving her REAL space which includes you NOT obsessing about her...
you seem to want simple easy "lines" to say or "Actions" to take WHILE the only ones that would really improve your situation , are being ignored.
Please listen to me with this.
When I went to MC's with my h, the first 3 (THREE!!) MC's, ALL told him that he was "being selfish", "acting like a single man", "not placing the family as a priority" in his life.
(Think about the odds of that happening but I swear, over an 18 month period that really happened. H said I had "brainwashed" them...you know, I can barely believe H ever went back to any of them.)
I felt temporarily relieved. At the time, I felt vindicated. After all, I pretty much just got declared "Right" and h was "Wrong"....
I spent almost a year asking "WHY??" and "HOW CAN YOU?"....and h just dug in his heels and got madder at me and fled my presence all the more.
Dawgy, I know what it's like to feel you have wasted a year on this but my first year was NOT very effective b/c I resisted the idea of ME being at fault for blatantly selfish acts on my h's part. Still, I knew I wasn't helping things...and all I kept hearing was about how the changes in ME had to start...not in h, b/c they might not ever happen and it was all up to him in that area.
That made me, ultimately feel MUCH WORSE...b/c then I was simply powerless. I mean, if I'm doing all the things right, and he still wants out, then wth do I do with that "he's wrong" information?
You mean, there's NOTHING I CAN DO??
Not once did any of those 3 MCs ask ME to work on ME...
So I got a DB coach who forced me to dig deep in ME.
And to realize a few simple but profound truths.
Since I really am the ONLY PERSON I can control, the more focus I put on my h,
the less effect I'd have in "our" world.
I really had to dig deep within to look AND FIND some things within me, that were NOT very attractive. Here are just a few...
I kept a scorecard in my head/heart about the ways H had "failed" me or let me down.
I often made sarcastic remarks with a passive aggressive stance, as if I had NOT meant the lousy remark, "just joking", and garbage like that.
I withheld the fullest forms of love I had once given, b/c I somehow believed that if i was "more loving" to him when he'd neglected/mistreated me/us, that he'd take me for granted.
Somehow in my head, I convinced myself that because HE had been selfish by, for instance, working late again, that my welcoming him home with open arms would "reward" him for "Bad behavior"...
So I'd stand in the home with my arms crossed, figuratively...
What a proud angry fool I was.
Why didn't I ever once ask myself "is this cold woman approach, HELPING??"
Why didn't I welcome him home to a warm hearth, happy children and a loving HUG??
Why didn't I give him a home to miss??
Mostly b/c I had a lot of self righteous anger (like you) and pride. There's a line between self respect and false pride. You need to find that line asap,
so that your wounded ego is not the part of you that makes decisions.
I had to let go of my anger and boy, that was SO liberating! Best choice I had made in a decade.
So you know, there were times h worked late, for a "selfish reason." I ask that you trust me on that, for a reason. I tell you this to make my point, which is
So what?
So what if H did a selfish thing?
IF I am not divorcing him for that^^ action, then MY choices are how I can behave myself. I can ignore it , inform him of how I feel about it once, making sure he hears and "gets" me and THEN I drop it,
or I can make us both miserable holding onto that righteousness tightly...
So the question is,
= Do You want to be RIGHT, or happy and loving??
As for having "no clue" why your w was unhappy, you simply must dig deeper
and or, be more honest.
It's a very rare woman who makes NONE of her unmet needs, known. It's a rare woman who never ever complains to or about her husband...yet that's what you claim. In >25 years, she never said a single thing that might mean you could improve, however slightly?
Are you saying that IF SHE were here and you were not, She'd say "Dawgy is a Great husband, partner, lover, friend, companion and father -- I just don't want to be married to him. I want to split my family up."
Short of mental illness/severe depression, I have never seen or heard of a married woman with children, wanting to leave a good strong fulfilling marriage.
There are men who might have an A for reasons that are not emotional. But almost every woman who has an A, has a significant Emotional attachment and that means there was an element of that MISSING in the marriage.
This does not mean you are a jerk. But it does mean you DO HAVE SOME CONTROL over how all this goes.
Work on you and only you. Get out of her sandbox and stay in yours.
Well people W is still under our roof . Shes showing no signs of leaving and hasnt threatened me in a couple months .When I look back at the cruelty she subjected me to I feel sick to my stomach . Forgiveness isnt looking to easy and as far as forgetting the pain caused . That will never happen .
Forgiving her will mean letting go of it, not throwing it in her face whenever you get mad or holding it over her head like the Sword of Damacles.
If you can't do that, then file for divorce now. It'd be the best thing for your son and you and your w, really.
I mean this^^ 100%.
If you are not going to forgive her and drop this, then you should end it now.
Yes, of course this presumes she wants to restore the marriage and ends the A, (among other things). But if you already know you want your anger to be your "new wife," then so be it. Cut everyone's losses.
Please don't stay married to stay miserable.
Div Busting is about saving yourself first, and then sometimes, saving your marriage.
you cannot save ANY marriage if you are not healthy yourself and Dawgy,
I think you know you are not well. You are stuck in crisis mode and you resist real efforts at GAL or looking inward or at least NOT staring at her most of your days.
You need to make some changes, and fast.
Interestingly enough though I find my self still sexually attracted to her even though I consider her to be tainted now . Hmmmm , a topic of conversation with my therapist i would say .
Anyway here is my dilema as of today . W has been fairly pleasant and has not really shown any signs of the affair still being alive so maybe its the truth .I want back in our bed . The two of us side by side . There doesnt have to be any touching, any sex , we dont have to even share blankets but i want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about .
Ouch...
Reading your words there, that is such a turn off to me. You sound uber controlling.
"I want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about.."
Hey, no offense, but who cares what you want? Does SHE want to heal? Has she told you so? Has she said she wants to stay married AND work on the marriage to make it better? What indicates to you that she is interested in what YOU want now?
If she has NOT said anything along those lines, then you are in no position to harp about your needs and wants.
But Dawgy that's part of the problem, You do that a lot. A LOT about how you "won't stand for x" and "cannot tolerate Y!", etc.
It's counter productive. Like stomping your feet and screaming that you "won't stand for any more rain"...
Dawgy, you don't control the weather OR YOUR WIFE...yeah, that is really hard to process and digest when you say it out loud, isn't it?
But the faster you let go of what you cannot control, (and the illusion that you ever could)
the sooner you will focus on what you CAN Control and do something about.
Take the focus off your feelings and Get A Life for real. (I'll post more on GAL later but you need to do MUCH MORE than you are. Trust me on that. Listen to what I and many others here are trying to get you to see.
You Cannot Detach, without GAL. I think GAL comes first, and then you can detach and THEN healing is much faster and easier.
NONE of^^ these things requires your w to be out of the house. You CAN do this with her under the same roof, in some ways more easily b/c she can watch son.
Im to the point now if she wont do this I want her to leave . The relationship is garbage now if we cant share our marital bed . Im finish with sleeping alone .
On one hand, I don't think anyone ought to be forced from their bed.
But here^^, You are just oozing a demanding form of neediness. You say you won't demand sex, but heck, why not?
I mean, you are demanding that she lay next to you.
Really, that's not very different, is it? I mean, you are forcing your company on her...why would she assume your "needs" won't continue to be her responsibility and why would she assume they won't increase?
And the other piece of the neediness is how much you really hate being alone, which is telling. Have you finished reading either of the Div Busting books? IF so, what did you think about them, or have trouble with or love about them? You need to discuss that for more effectiveness here.
And How are your sessions with the IC going?
Do you feel the IC is "Solution based" ? That means, to me, that Rather than some traditional therapy which can consist of rehashing all of your childhood history and then thinking about how you FELT during those times and how you feel NOW,
instead,
Solution based therapy begins to identify behaviors you want or need to change.
Because that is where your focus should be now.
You are the only one who can get yourself onto a path of self improvement and growth.
I want to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.
Really? Welcome to a large club of people who don't always get to see that.
Yet we have to trust that there is one and it's an internal one. See, no matter what happened to my m, I came to realize that b/c of the changes I made within me, I had become a happier more loving woman. What a bonus!
So no matter what, I'd be more than alright. For me, that^^ was detachment.
As for what your Wife wants to see, I'd bet-
Like any other WAS,
She won't return to the marriage she left, .....
unless...she believes it can be a better/diferent marriage than before.
Your job is showing her that it can/will be different/better.
And that means change, in YOU. Yes, you must take the first step..and the second step...
and the 420674th step, to work on yourself to help your marriage improve.
Why only you and why so many steps?
Because SHE IS NOT HERE trying to save the marriage; you are.
Shes been much nicer and interactive in the last few weeks and now that she knows that I dont care if she leaves shes lost her control over me . Any suggestions ????? Dawgy
Don't mind read (Which is the part I struck through)--it's counter productive negative thinking, and it detracts from the real work you must begin asap.
Dig a lot deeper. Be brave about it. I know it's not easy to think that you may have played a large part in the pain you are now experiencing. I know!
I can almost guarantee that you did, b/c unless your wife was a serial cheater before now, you have work to do that has gone undone this whole past year.
EMBRACE THAT^^ WORK, b/c it means You are NOT powerless.
You can change things inside the marriage, b/c you can change you.
See the inner work you must do to become the Best Dawgy You can ever become,
as an empowering challenge. Because it really is just that.
Hey Dawgy - that there ^^^^ is pure platinum if I have ever seen it. Read that out loud a couple dozen times.
I just wanted to jump in and say thank you 25 for your generosity here . You clearly care and spend a lot of time helping others. I'm off with a weather day day today and am lurking today - every time I read one of your posts I am inspired by what you share and what advice you give.
thanks!
Dawgy, copy 25's advice to Word and print it out. Read it over and over again. She's hit the nail on the head. Whenever you start ranting about W, pull out 25's text and read it. You've been given a great gift here. Please pay heed.
dawgy, your posts today sound just like your posts 6 months ago. You NEED to be here and to hear what people like 25yearsmlc are telling you. You're here, so that's a win. But you have not listened to dozens and dozens of excellent posts of advice specifically written for you. 25yrs just gave you the most comprehensive, most accurate response yet that I've seen for you. If you don't soak up and embrace that post, I fear you never will actually get what you need to get out of DB (or anything else).
I second that from Card 29. 25yearsmlc put in a big effort with a hugely helpful post - and you just don't seem to want to hear it. Talk to us Dawgy. Why are you struggling to take good advice on board? We're all here to try and help my friend...
Well in my defense ive eaten alot of shait during this last year and forgive me if i sound pissed off .I was very willing to save my marriage for along time but she pushed me too far, now i dont know what i want . Dawgy
Hi Dawgy - you're not alone on that front! Many of us have eated our fair share as you know. I understand your anger, and that your W has pushed things.
You may decide not to save your M - but this is about you - about learning from what has happened, dealing with your anger and taking the responsibility that is yours. There will be some - none of us are perfect spouses.
You just seem to want to push things onto your W. But think about shifting your focus onto things you can control - you. What sort of man do you want to be - with our without W. What kind of relationship do you want with your sons? Look for the joy in your life, apart from what your W is doing - and focus on that.
You can do this Dawgy! Can you write a post and list ten things you are thankful for today? That might be a good place to start?
Hi Dawgy, it's your DB friend Toots bugging you again...I slept on things and realised I also wanted to comment on how I read what you have written.
"Well in my defence" (defensive) ive eaten alot of shait (victim) during this last year and forgive me if i sound pissed off (angry) .I was very willing to save my marriage for along time but she pushed me too far (blaming), now i dont know what i want .
So, my question Dawgy is - whatever your W may have done....do you want to be a defensive victim who is angry and blames others for what has gone wrong in his life? That's how your two sentence post reads to me.
I hope this isn't too harsh, and I really mean well Dawgy..
You know what ?? I do get it . i do understand that Im half to blame for the demise of my marriage Ive never said I wasnt .Ive even told the W that fact . However I really cannot accept any kind of responsibilty for what shes done . Shes , lied , cheated , stole , abused ,hmmm what else ? Anyway whatever . She coulda left if she was unhappy . She didnt need to be a cheater .
Im alittle confused about this whole Divorce Busting anyway . I mean alot if not all posts to me seem to be directing blame onto the LBS . I simply cant accept that .If she hadnt have had the affair we would still be together and we could have exhausted all avenues before seperating . But oh no , she done it the evil way and i cant get past that . Sorry I believe Ive tried . For over a year . Im about me and my sons now . She will have to face the music . I pity her . I gave her a chance to save our family but she just played on my fear . Im done . Dawgy
Im alittle confused about this whole Divorce Busting anyway . I mean alot if not all posts to me seem to be directing blame onto the LBS . I simply cant accept that .If she hadnt have had the affair we would still be together and we could have exhausted all avenues before seperating .
Dawgy, I think you're misinterpreting it. The point that so many are trying to get across to you is that you can only change YOU. I understand your feelings of hurt and anger- we've all been there. But eventually I got to a point where I realized that W is her own person. She makes her own decisions. She has to live with those decisions and it's not my 'job' to tell her that the decision was right or wrong. I'm very similar to you in that I like to be in control. It's been difficult for me to let W go and live her own life, make her own choices. All I can do is continue to work on myself and become a better person. I promise that if you keep the focus on yourself and letting go of W's decision making, eventually it gets easier.
But oh no , she done it the evil way and i cant get past that . Sorry I believe Ive tried . For over a year . Im about me and my sons now . She will have to face the music . I pity her . I gave her a chance to save our family but she just played on my fear . Im done . Dawgy
Not your 'job' to judge her and her actions, but if you've decided you can't get past them, go ahead and file for D. But make sure that's really what you want and that you're not just speaking from a place of anger.
Yes I believe I want a Divorce now . She obviously doesnt love me anymore otherwise she would never commit such unspeakable acts of disrespect and to continue to do so after being given a chance to save us . She only cares about her . She says she cares about her children but thats a lie too.Otherwise whywould she risk their happiness just to satisfy her own selfish indulgements . She even cares about the boyfriend more than her own flesh and blood . Lies , lies . lies Anyway whether I didnt employ the strategies of Dbing properly or whatever happened its divorce time for me . At least I can look at myself in the mirror and say I tried to save my family with every bit of heart I had left after she ripped it out . She wont be able to do the same . I dont see where she tried to save our family in the least but she only took advantage of my fear of her leaving . As far as her boyfriend goes , I dont know whether shes seeing him or not anymore . It doesnt really matter . Hes a piece of shait for having an affair with a married woman. I wish him all the worst . lol Dawgy
I feel your pain Dawgy. I just don't see how they can look at themselves in the mirror and sleep at night.
I filed for legal separation which is a not quite divorce. The process is the same, you divide up assets and debts but it's not a divorce. It gives you time to think. If you still want to divorce, it's a small step. It also gives you time to talk things through more calmly.
I am in the same boat. My wife wants us to be friends. Dont see that happening. I wish her the worst for blowing up our family.
Sorry but that is how I feel today.
Ouch Dawgy I feel your pain, what your W did was wrong and there is no excuse for it. However, maybe just for a bit try to put yourself in her shoes, I know it's hard and I was unable to do it until I lived it under different circumstances.
I recently applied for a new job and got hired, the pay is better then my current job and the location closer to home. When I went quit my boss immediately booked a conference room to have my exit interview, he proceeded to beg me to stay offering a more competitive salary, more vacation and saying they would find someone to help offload my work. He claimed he had no idea I was unhappy to the point of leaving. I just sat there listening dumb founded, I've been telling him for years I was over worked and under appreciated. Now even though I'm being offered everything I've wanted for the last few years I still want to leave. They've abused me long enough and it's time for them to pay for it. I'm scared, I'm upset and I'm nervous, what if this is a huge mistake and the new place doesn't work out? What if it's worse then my current job? I remember thinking to myself while being escorted out of the building this must be exactly how my WAW felt.
Maybe this helps you relate, maybe you can think of something similar in your own life where you've been where she is. Your W doesn't want to hurt you, she didn't go into your M hopeing it would fail. She's felt abandoned for years and you've ignored all of her cries for help. Only now that she has a real chance to be happy and is truely moving on is when you want to listen.
I don't mean for any of this to sound harsh as it applies 100% to me as well. If you're done it's ok, if you want to leave the door open a crack for her to come home that's ok to. What you do need to do is take ownership for your mistakes, understand where your W is coming from and forgive her. This hate will only destroy any future you two have of being successful co-parents to your sons.
Thanks people for the comments . It has given me a lot to think about for sure . Legal separation is the way I will go . It sounds better and makes better sense . I m thankful that I found this forum . Its literally been a life saver . Dawgy
Something i have a real problem wth is the fact that I truly didnt know that we we in trouble . Why did nt she say " Dawgy , Im not feeling it anymore , Im unhappy " then I could have done something about it or at least tried to fix what was wrong before it went further down into the pit . So to the comparison of you being offered the new job and being unhappy doesnt really work for me . You told your boss repeatedly that you were overworked and under appreciated and you gave him/her the chance to make it right and keep you. My wife didnt do that . I was shocked when i found out what she had done . She never once said she was unhappy . And if she showed it i chalked it up to the ebb and flow of a long term relationship . No one in a 20 + year R has been dancing around in complete bliss for that long . There are ups and downs . I f she was so unhappy she could have said so . Instead she let some POS into her life and ruined it for our whole family . She bears all responsibility for such behavior . The only thing i can own up to is not being able to read her mind and know she was unhappy . She still hasnt left . I wish she would . The longer she is here the more bitter ive become . Dawgy
dawgy,
i understand your sentiment completely. my XW was still sending "inspirational pics" a month before she dropped the bomb. she told me it was to "buy time". this all stinks but it is life for right now. you can only control how you react to it.
Dawgy, my first 11 thread titles started with the word "blindsided". I truly was. I absolutely thought we were happy up until the moment of BD. I have no idea why H didn't come to me and say he was unhappy. I'll never know. But it doesn't matter now. It doesn't change what I need to do for my future.
Dawgy, you are becoming increasingly bitter and angry. And while that's understandable, is that the person you want to be? Choose something different.
Going through your threads again, I might have missed it but did you ever go through and read DB or DR? That would have mentioned what signs you could have seen that made your M fall apart.
Yes I read DB , Hindsight is a wonderful thing .If I only had have read DB before I knew my marriage was in trouble I may have been able to keep my marriage together . lol OR she could have communicated the fact she was unhappy . Hmmmm what seems to be the most logical ?? I know what your saying Mr Bond , but I truly thought we were stronger than Oak . Now I know that I am stronger than oak but she is weak as a toothpick . Dawgy
Dawgy- I agree that reading DB (or any similar type book) would have been very helpful in building a strong, A proof M. I've even considered giving DB as a marriage gift to friends. Hindsight...
I bet if you do an honest reflection of your 23 yr M, you'd be able to identify some type of signs that W was not happy. A comment here, an interaction there... I thought W and I were perfectly happy, but when I look back, I now see what were warning signs. I've also tried putting myself in W's shoes to realize how unhappy she must have been to finally speak up about her unhappiness. Like my W, I'm sure yours had an internal battle on her feelings- maybe 3 to 5 years (or more) of thinking 'I'm not happy, but maybe this is what M is like' eventually turns into 'I need/want out.' I don't think anyone goes from 100% happy one day to wanting to D the next- it's a slow process in most cases.
If you truly believe some of the things you've posted recently about your wife being weak, you pit her, how she makes you more bitter by the day, etc- then file for D tomorrow. But I worry that in your next R, these same anger issues will eventually arise.
The post about my new job was just an example to try and give you an idea of how to place yourself into her shoes. Perhaps you can think of a time when you blindsided a family member or friend with a selfish act? I'm sure you've never done anything to the same magnitude of your W but the same basic feelings should apply.
I think we all feel blindsided and ask why didn't she just say something. Your W no doubt was telling you but not in a way you understood. In my sitch my W told me directly she was unhappy, as a concerned husband I would ask why? Is it your job? The house? Family/friends? Me? She would just say no to everything. She would tell me the "spark" was gone, I had no idea what this meant, we had been together 10 years and weren't into each other like we were at 18 but we still had plenty of good sex, held hands, kissed, laughed. She would say I can't talk to you about anything and I go to anyone else for support other then you, once again as a concerned husband I would say what can't you talk to me about? Why do you feel I don't support you? She would say nothing or I don't know. All the while she is saying these things she is working on a photo album of my baby pictures with my mom, then a week later it's "I love you but..."
Signs can slap you right in the face and you, exactly like me, likely just ignored them because doing the work of figuring out what the real problem was just too much effort. You need to own your mistakes in the relationship, you need to understand and forgive. I've met plenty of people who 10 years down the road are still fighting with there ex's because they refused to ever let go.
Sometimes I think this is all BS and it is really as simple as this . She was weak and slept with another man thinking she could get away with it . The sex was great , like a drug she didnt want to stop, . Then she got caught !!! Oh shait ! now what to do ??She knows we will never be the same again , so she goes into survival mode and decides that she must stay with OM to make it right .lololol But as we all know an affair relationship has about as much of a chance of survival as hell freezing over . And yes it lasted about a year and now its over . Hmmm she thinks, Now what am i gonna do ? Hence she still under our roof , cooking meals , doing my laundry and acting like a mother and somewhat of a wife again . BUT..... I dont think I want her anymore . She has done tooooo much damamge to ever come back from . But maybe not . Has anyones marriage survived this kind of Trauma ?? Anyone on here that can tell me they did it . Afterall I actually caught her and him naked in bed having sex . Dawgy
Has anyones marriage survived this kind of Trauma ?? Anyone on here that can tell me they did it . Afterall I actually caught her and him naked in bed having sex.
If you're asking if anyone on here has survived their spouse having an A, you haven't been reading any other threads. Whether you caught them in bed or not, you know there was a PA and what that involves. Not to make light of what you walked in to- it makes me sick to envision my W and OM, so I can only imagine your feeling having actually walked in on it.
Dawgy, what is your hope in all of this? To save your M? To make yourself a better person? To D your W and always hold onto that anger? All of your posts are just about how angry you are, how much you despise W, how bitter you've become. At some point, you have to accept what happened and come to peace with it, whether you save your M or not. Why not start today?
Dawgy, I'm sure you'll get replies from people on the board, but let me tell you that, yes, marriages survive from that. My cousin cheated on her H in their house, he came in and caught them. They stayed together, and I can say they are happy as can be. I saw them last summer, and they were kind and affectionate with one another, told stories about their grandchildren. It is possible.
Yes, marriages can survive. It doesn't happen without a lot of personal growth though. You have to BOTH make lasting changes.
My H had an A last year. I hesitate to say we are fully healed because I still have moments where the memory of what happened is painful, but I am no longer in daily pain over it. I would say our R is stronger than it has probably ever been. We are truly happy together again. Now, we didn't get here overnight. I had to drop the anger and the scorecard. I had to recognize my own behaviors that contributed to the deterioration of our M. Yes, H contributed too, but I have no control over what he chooses to do. It helped me to think of it this way: someday I want a better R, with or without H, and I'm not going to get it dragging this baggage with me. Funny thing about change, I changed first but H then followed my lead. We didn't talk about it at first, we just started shifting the way we interacted. Once H recommitted to our M, we both acknowledged the changes we'd noticed. At that point he also had to show his remorse and make me believe that his changes were true. All of that happened. We're both thankful we roughed it out.
Dawgy, your anger is evident in your posts. I understand that an A is horrible and no one ever wants to go through that, BUT you will be miserable for the rest of your life if you do not let go of it. If you feel like too much has happened and you can't be happy in the M ever again, then file for D and start moving on. Just remember, all of that anger is coming with you until you choose to let it go. Yes, your W hurt you. I bet you hurt her too and I'd guess that you are not very kind to her now even though you live under the same roof. IMO, you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't look at your own attitudes and behaviors to figure out how you could have been a better partner. We all make mistakes. It's up to each one of us to learn from them.
Im no poster boy on how to conduct yourself DBing wise for sure . If there was an action you shouldnt do if you want to save your marriage , then I did it . I guess that comes with the territory when you have an emotional personality . Here I am 13 months into this shait storm and I still dont know what im doing . One day I want out and the next I cant bare the thought of losing it all .
Having said that , if I being honest with my self , my feelings tell me right now that its over , she ruined me . It will take years if ever to trust anyone again . After all , cheating on your loyal husband of 23 years is THE worst thing you could do to your spouse . There is nothing else . What kind of person would do such a thing to such an extent after being given chance after chance to save our family ? A terrible person . Someone that cannot be trusted by anyone ever again the rest of their lives IMO .
I admit to a role in the marriage breakdown , for sure , but never ever will I shoulder any of the blame for her disgusting behavior . At this point I can say it truly disgusts me what she has committed . And I understand why it is illegal in many countries around the world.
My focus has to be how in the heck am I gonna recover from this assault on my being ?How will I ever be ME again ? Has she ruined me for life ? I pray every night that I can survive this but it seems to be a mountain tooo high to climb .Perhaps I can go around ? Dawgy
Dawgy, you and I signed up here within days of each other. And you continue to confound me with your lack of responsibility for yourself. I don't mean admit your role in the M breakdown, you just did that above, but I mean taking ownership of YOU. Another person cannot ruin you. Dawgy is the only person with the power to ruin Dawgy. And you are doing a good job so far. Come on, Dawgy, you seem like a decent guy (assuming the parking lot incident was a one-time slip
) Caring, a good dad. Focus on getting you back. Save yourself. Start fresh today. What are you going to do for yourself today?