Part 1 New thread. New direction. Looking for advice from vets on how to withdraw my support from a dangling WAW, and pulling out of codependency.
Great day with my kids! Cinnamon rolls, a long sesh at an indoor play gym, then to a friends house to play some ps3. The older boys love video games but I am dragging my feet on getting them a system (I kindof loathe video games save for very small doses) so this was a big treat for them. Youngest just explores the house and was pleasant as punch. Nothing like a nice long nonstop day.
W texted a bit ago that she missed the boys and to hug them. Said she was hitting the local bar scene (it's a tiny town) with the other women from her course. This actually sounds like a lot of fun, if I can somehow envision her doing it without OM there (he's probably there). I have to use my imagination for good not evil I guess. I kept my responses short, said the boys had a Great day, and told her to shoot for karaoke. That's that.
I feel like I have so many different intangible ropes to drop with W.
Also W being out of town means I can break my no booze in the house rule for one night only. First time in 3 months. Picked up a single can of fosters at the corner store on the way home. What says bachelor style more than that?
Hi 1foot2,
You sound much better tonight than last night. You did a good job enjoying the day with your kids. Keep up the PMA. Fosters, hmmmm. It's been so long for me.
Thanks wet! Yup, a great day. I maintained PMA with my kids all day too. Herding three of them can test the patience, but there were no real incidents at all. All my actions felt deliberate and patient. I felt at ease all day. Tomorrow I'll get up with them and make pancakes, then MIL comes over so I can go to work. She'll find a tidy house! After work I'll do some hardcore GALing, got to make a flyer for a Halloween party I'm helping throw at a bar down the street.
When it's good, it's good. I wouldn't leave me! Maybe that's my mantra.
Just to journal: hung w kids and tidied house yesterday then went to work once MIL came over. Was productive and focused at work. Came home, W still not back. She got home a little later, having stopped at target to get some things (food for kids, some baby clothes, wine). I checked the receipt and she spent close to $100. Not trying to obsess, but also just trying to get an idea of where her money is going. Ironically, she had bought the same exact set of sleepsuits for the baby that I bought on Saturday. She had mentioned wanting to get them a week back but not having the cash, so I bought them. Pretty funny that we each got the same thing. I left pretty quickly after she got home. Shared no conversation with her besides the weekend being good and the kids having fun. Did not ask her how her weekend went and she didn't mention anything.
Went out with a friend to an acoustic show at a friends house. Had a lovely time, having funny chats with people. Feeling so much more relaxed, social and just like me lately. I was standing in the kitchen and saw the sink full of dishes, so I just started doing them, and had a conversation with just about everyone there, as nobody understood why this random person was doing dishes.
W was very rundown on her way out to work this morning. Says she feels like she's getting sick. I said "sorry you're feeling bad". Dunno what else to say/do for her right now. I feel so very detached from her right now, like we are just drifting apart. But for the moment that feels right.
Struggling with my PMA around W lately. It's no longer sadness, just resentment. I'm really worried that if we go on like this, I will simply lose my love for her. Or I find myself questioning if this is really a person I want to live with. She just seems to have such little regard for our family and me. I'm having a lot of thoughts of just feeling scammed and manipulated.
Had the day off yesterday and spent the morning with S1.5. He is a total dream. We walked around the neighborhood and be explored leaves and fire hydrants and anything in his path. He napped while I cleaned house, then I picked up older boys. We did some yard work and ran around. The boys mentioned that mommy told them she would take them to get a toy when she got home from work. I raised an eyebrow at that. Our kids have plenty of toys, Legos everywhere, and there's no real occasion to get them something right now. Halloween is in two weeks and Xmas is coming. Sure enough, when she came home she took them out. I took youngest to the park. When she got home, she'd spent $50 on Lego sets for the boys. Why? Because she felt guilty about being gone all weekend? I don't approve of this, but have no idea what to say. I'm spending my whole check this week on bills, and she was asking me for money just last week.
While I was putting boys to bed, W left to go to a friends house who is breaking up with her bf for the millionth time. Her only other close friend here aside from BFF, who also has a disastrous love life. No idea when she came home.
This morning was my morning to walk S8 and friends to school, and as always, W did not leave with other boys while I was gone, so S6 had to go to school late. She even texted me as I was walking back home "are you coming back soon?" As if I am the one holding everything up.
Vent vent vent. At this point, it feels like any conversation about money and responsibilities will get very negative. And I sense my resentment about it all creeping into my barebones interactions with her. I fear this mutual loathing developing , even though she has nothing to loathe about me right now. I'm happy, fit, busy, and on too of just about everything. I feel like she is just fading away.
Unexpected R talk. We got an email from our landlord saying they are looking to sell our house next year. We talked about that, then awkward silence. Asked as how she was feeling, she said better. She asked me how I was doing. I said I felt energized by the work I've been doing on myself. Feeling better than ever. Loving working out, educating myself on better communication, being more responsible and focused on things that matter. I paused, then told her that I knew my next relationship was going to be better, whether with her or with someone else. She asked to give me a hug and came and sat on my lap. We embraced for a long time. I told her I missed her, missed her smell. She said "I'm sorry you married such a wild heart". I winced. She said she just really needs this emotional connection that she doesn't think she ever had with me. (I am DYING) That she just needs to follow her own path. I said I understood that. She sat in my lap for another five minutes. Said she believed in me, that I was going to do good. She said "ten years is a lot of time", I said "it's only a little time". She laughed. She said "can I just say how amazing you've been with the boys, being there for them, going on field trips, making time for them. It's really really amazing." Tearing up the whole time. Before she got up, I said "can I just promise you, my changes are forever changes. I am happy with the new person I am. If you come back, it won't be our old R. It will be a new R." She said "well you have to let me go then." I said, "I have, even though it's been very painful".
That was it. I didn't lose it, didn't plead, I was calm and I was honest. And I could tell she saw I was sincere. I can only hope I put some things in her mind.
I am shaking. Someone help me see some positive here.
I know not to believe anything they say. The emotional connection line cut me to the bone. They've been together for three months.
And meanwhile, she has basically taken a vacation from our family to pursue this connection. This just has me feeling so many different conflicting emotions. She said "we're too similar" again. I don't even know what that means.
I know I need to recommit to BD. Not that I've given up. She acts like she's got or is getting what she wanted, but she has nowhere near it. And from her saying I have to let her go to get her back, I feel like she still thinks she can just do this for however long she feels like. The fact is she doesn't have her "own path" yet.
Yet i resisted saying anything to this effect during the convo. I really hope that something stuck.
I haven't read your previous thread but you are saying all the right things. You are showing her that your are independent and have your own life.
I would double down on your current behavior after all she was comfortable enough to sit on your lap, that has to be a good sign.
Just keep on working out, having a PMA, etc…
There is no way she is not feeling pressure from the outside world to keep the family intact. She has a 1 1/2 yr old with you.
Let the pressure come from the outside world and not from you
Thanks bklyn. I'm at the gym now, drenched in sweat. Came straight here.
I guess there's positives that she's definitely seen all of my changes. And I am very grateful for those changes. I just have this fear that they don't matter. That this isn't really about me, but about her escaping into a fantasy, mixed up along the way by her drinking and her health. I have to be at peace with that.
1foot2, I read your thread . So many similar stories on these waw. Buying kids toys, been there, seen same thing with waw and my kids. They can't give them emotional support cause there in Lala land. You will come out of this a better person. Keep on doing what you are doing. I know it's hard. Take a look at starsky and Mr Bond s post. Follow there advice. It will help keep you sane. Keep up the good work with your kids. I am in a similar boat. WAw have no problem with what they are doing. One day when they do! It won't be pretty! Maybe you will be there to help her pick up the pieces and maybe you won't. That will be for you to decide. Keep GAL and detaching you are doing well for the short time this has been going on.
Thanks for the positives guys. Just had a good chat with my close friend who is all filled in on my sitch. He said it's good that I got to say what I've wanted to say for a long time, that my next relationship will be better, with someone else or with her.
What frustrates me is her saying I have to let her go. I have! She won't go. I asked her to move out in early Sept! She still seems to be making this my decision somehow, even though I have completely stepped aside and let her do whatever she's wanted, and doubled down mg efforts to run the family without her.
At the end if the night, I feel positive.
Next time she says you have to let her go. You might say something like you decided to walk a way from the marriage and family this has nothing to do with me letting you go. No vet here but I think going LRT dark is a good strategy for you to keep your sanity.
What frustrates me is her saying I have to let her go. I have! She won't go. I asked her to move out in early Sept! She still seems to be making this my decision somehow, even though I have completely stepped aside and let her do whatever she's wanted, and doubled down mg efforts to run the family without her.
from my situatuion i would never give someone the green light again to leave. think i found that out to late.
read something about not making decisions for them somewhere on the forum but it was a bit to late for me.
similar behaviour to my W . i had to be the one to ask her to leave she wouldnt leave on her own.
the amount of times she would say she was leaving and then when i agreed it would suddenly change to me throwing her out .
not one of my finest moments but remember saying to her "why dont you grow a pair of balls and just leave"
even after i agreed to let her leave and in conversations in the last few days at home i would say why dont you just stay and we can work this out she used to say
" but you agreed to let me go why are you changing your mind"
so i used to say
" ok then dont leave and we can sort this out "
and she would then reply "but i have to leave "
this would go on for days .
someitmes i wonder if i just never agreed to her leaving but think she would have just got more outragous until i did thropw her out.
something that seems to have backfired is my ability to run the family/house on my own, something that im sure she thought i would completely fail at . she passed comment to my daughter one time that give it a few weeks and the house will be a disaster and you will be all beging me to return.
well im keepping ontop of everything and feeling pretty good about it but then sometimes i think that it made her feel even more worthless to the family when she did come home for a trial as she diditn need to do anything because i did it all.
so think there must be a very fine balance of what you and your W do regards the family/house.
That might be the case but that highlights that she has her own issues to deal with. If your keeping on top of the house then what's wrong with that its certainly better than it being an unpleasant environment.
If you dated someone new and their place was a tip because they couldn't cope - how many more dates would their be? Remember part of this is about being attractive and being in control of your own life is surely part of that.
I know my W was annoyed with my increased housework because she was frustrated that I 'could just turn it on like that' I didn't tell her it was because I stopped caring whether she thought I was doing it wrong.
That might be the case but that highlights that she has her own issues to deal with. If your keeping on top of the house then what's wrong with that its certainly better than it being an unpleasant environment.
If you dated someone new and their place was a tip because they couldn't cope - how many more dates would their be? Remember part of this is about being attractive and being in control of your own life is surely part of that.
I know my W was annoyed with my increased housework because she was frustrated that I 'could just turn it on like that' I didn't tell her it was because I stopped caring whether she thought I was doing it wrong.
That made me chuckle . The part about doing it wrong . I would always miss a bit or not clean it the correct way .
Next time she says you have to let her go. You might say something like you decided to walk a way from the marriage and family this has nothing to do with me letting you go. No vet here but I think going LRT dark is a good strategy for you to keep your sanity.
I am curious what the vets think as my sitch is a bit abnormal. I am fine taking things slowly. I said two very clear, concise things to her that I have had on my mind (my next relationship, and that my changes are for me and permanent). I'd like to let those stew with her a bit.
As far as not making the decision for her, and letting reality "sort her out", I have followed that to the best of my ability. Asking her to move out six weeks ago was my last ditch effort to assert my independence, and was before I began DBing. Since then, I have left it up to her, and that's where we are now, with no sign of her leaving.
I feel good about our conversation. She didn't really make much of an argument to me, just said these empty sounding things about her own path, having a wild heart, emotional connections, etc. I guess the flip side of becoming a man only a fool would leave is, sometimes the fool just leaves.
I just don't think you should talk to her about your relationship or her hypocrosy.
Saying one thing and doing another is par for the course.
Check out the Laura Munson book - this isn't the season you think it is.
You should order it now.
Please new comers need to realize do not engage in these conversations with them. You need to find outside sources to confide in - these boards, therapists, close friends. But don't talk to them
I do not agree with igits reply because it's a come back. Do not try to debate these lunatics. You are right and they are crazy. You have zero chance of winning a debate.
You are on the right track. Do not fall for the set up of talking about it
Great advice, and oh how right you are, BklynMom!
Definitely great advice. I'm definitely not seeking to have convos with her. This seemed like a good time to say a few things to her, however, and I really think I delivered a solid message. I resisted every opportunity to argue with her or call out her thinking, which is basically BS at this point. I made no assessments or judgments of what she plans to do, nor did I point out that she really has no plan at all. I didn't argue with her when she said she has an "emotional connection", she still can't directly reference OM to me, which I take as a good sign somehow, and I did not refer to him at all. I merely told her that I was working on myself, and I do believe she sees those changes as genuine and is happy to see them. She even said "I love you, I believe in you, you are going to do good, and you will always have me." I realize that hearing that is a lot more than others here get from their WAS, so I can be grateful.
Where I am obviously still miles from my goal is: she needs to somehow reuse that she is going to lose ME. I have no idea how to send this message aside from continuing all of my DB efforts that are working, and being much better at not bailing her out with support when she needs it. Otherwise I am stuck. The holidays are coming and I suspect we are just going to "act normal" thru them. Her family astounds me. They have just disappeared. I usually see a ton of her family over thanksgiving/Xmas, we have all sorts of regular annual traditions. As of now, I'm planning on attending these, powering thru with max PMA, enjoying the time with them (we all get along) and my kids, and maybe just maybe they see a better picture of what is going on here.
I had to work late today, and W grumbled a bit that it would cut into her study time. She is starting to get stressed with due dates for assignments coming up, and I sensed her trying to put that on me, even though she's been going out plenty of nights to supposedly do work. I said I would be home as soon as possible and that I'm fine with her taking whatever time she needs. Just trying to stay out of her way. When I got home, she left without taking her bag of books or the laptop. So incredibly in the fog! I'm planning for a hectic morning without her.
As i'd planned for, W did not return home this morning. same ish different day.
Am I right to just make peace with "doing nothing" right now? I'm focused on what I need to do. I am doing some gigs this weekend, so I'm sure she sees this as getting her time in.
Wish I knew when this A would run its course. I know its constrained somewhat by its relative secrecy. W and OM cant really do too much publicly. He cant come over here. Ws friends might accept him but I dont see them doing too much together. Ws family wouldnt want to meet him or welcome him right now. I know I shouldnt focus on this, I just wonder when it will hit this dope (this duck?) that something about this just isnt right.
From our convo a few nights ago, I sense her just dangling in the wind right now. Hoping for a stiff wind soon.
Kids in bed, another night alone with my thoughts. Wondering today if my W is truly capable of love, at least right now. Near the end of our talk the other night, she said "ten years is a lot of time". Is that it? Has she just run out? Is she so closed off, that I know her too well for her to feel comfortable with me? Is she only able to be romantic with people who have just met her, and pour adoration on her, as I did when we first met? (And still did until recently, I would say) is she only able to feel safe with someone who hasn't fully come to understand her yet? Will she just do this over and over again for the rest of her life?
All dark questions. She said over and over early on that she still feels close to me, doesn't want to lose me as a friend, wants to be with me for the rest of her life, just not "with" me. Is that just the way it is? The ten years comment really gets me, as if she's just run out of love. I want to promise her that the love I will give her if she comes back will be better than ever. But I can't.
Just feeling lonely tonight. Making myself a nice dinner and early to bed.
OMG - my ex used almost the exact same script - we are too much alike, has a deep connection with the OW, etc. My fiance told me that this is "not about me - he just wants something different" after 8 years together. (Funny how this perspective only came up when he met the OW.) Are these guys all drinking from the same Kool-aid? This is nuts. I am so sorry you are dealing with this crazy behavior like me. Any ideas of what she found so appealing about starting the affair in the first place?
Please check out my thread if you can - I think our situations have a lot in common, except you seem to be much more poised than me and I can't help but lose it sometimes when he says these awful, irrational, selfish things.
Thanks zimmy, I have been reading your thread, I will take a look and see if I can offer my perspective. Sometimes I feel like I do t give very good advice here!
If I seem poised, it's only because I have already made it through what I hope is the absolute worst of this. The first month after BD was hell. I am not ashamed to say I even felt somewhat suicidal. This made me realize how serious I needed to take things, however, and I have made some solid progress since then. Finding the books and this forum, reading about affair fog, etc, really gave me the tools I needed to make sense of this. Also getting in with an IC and back on ADs was crucial. I think I have shocked my W with how quickly I turned around.
It's sadly comforting to know that I'm not the only one hearing these things. I try to look for the kernels of truth in everything my wife says. When she says "were too similar", I think that's her way of acknowledging the marital issues we share, that we would need to address together. I agree with her that we have problems in common. In general however, and especially right now, we could t be more DISsimilar.
About her affair: I honestly don't think she was actively pursuing one. We were having a stressful summer, she was distancing herself from me, checking out around the house a great deal, and I was withdrawing my love languages out of resentment (of course I had NO IDEA I was doing this until I read DR many months too late). I think she went out with a friend, met a guy, they hit it off and she wanted to fool around with him and started rewriting our R right there on the spot. On e it happened, she had to retroactively justify it by convincing herself our R must already be over. A week later we are at dinner and she's trying to sell me on it. We just stay in the house and start sleeping around, everybody's happy right? Wrong. 3 months later, here I am.
Wow - that is almost exactly what I think happened to my fiance - he met a woman on a plane who stroked his ego and made him feel good, and then he started to rewrite our life and history to justify his actions.
Very similar. Except my fiance now wants out so he can pursue the OW and this other life? And there is nothing I can do to stop him.
How are you feeling now?
She has no doubt that you love her. That is precisely why she takes you for granted. Do you think for a second that she would "want to be friends" if you were the WAS? It's just like an old pair of shoes, u take them for granted but when you can't find them or someone throws them away suddenly you realize what they meant to you. Be the shoes! Prayin for us! Also are y'all still intimate? Go on dates?
I'm continually surprised by just how similar a lot of the stories are at their root. But that gives me hope because in some ways it makes it slightly sciency.
I Agree with bravo - you take for granted what you've got and then your head is turned and off they trot. Im willing to bet that you would say you took your other half for granted until they walked away.
I certainly did.
No we are not intimate. Her sitting on my lap the other day was the closest we have been in physical contact for months. It hurt like hell. No dates, no quality time spent together at all really.
She left when I got home last night and is a no show again this morning.
While taking boys to school today I found another parking ticket in the car. From yesterday. Same location. Third one. Time stamped 1130 am, when she should have been at work. I just paid our babysitter for the week, so that W can be at work instead of home with baby, and she's not going to work and racking up parking tickets. She is completely out of her mind.
I want to confront t her with the ticket and ask why she wasn't at work. This is out of control. I just keep rolling over.
Been too busy to even think/do anything about my sitch lately, which I suppose is a good thing. Worked Friday, came home and read with my oldest in bed then conked out early. Worked sat, W was complaining of feeling very sick when I left. Her only close-to-full day with the kids of course. I told her I wished she felt better and left for work. Busy day. W texts around 4 asking if I can leave early, as she is on the couch in pain and can't watch the kids (I'm usually home at 630 on sats). I considered just saying it wasn't possible for me to get out early, but then I thought of the kids, probably having a very boring day without anyone to do anything with them. When W is sick while watching the kids, which is usually every couple weeks or more often :(, the kids just run wild in the house. It's a bummer. So I was able to leave early. Came home and took them straight out to a nice park by the lake, ran around, chased ducks, had a bunch of fun. Came home, made dinner, bathed all three, bedded everyone, did loads of laundry, then hustled out to my dj gig, which went great.
A friend came to hang out last night and told me that he saw my W with OM checking out a video Thursday night. This would have been the night where she frantically left the house when I got home because she is behind on schoolwork. Yup. He told me he felt really awkward even saying hello to her, that he wasn't sure what to say. I told him not to worry, that she probably felt 10x as awkward. My friend has a way with words (and is gay) and said OM didn't have anything on me in the looks department, "he looked like an extra" was his quote. Hah.
Got up this morning and took kids to breakfast while W slept. Then while baby napped I took older boys to volunteer to help get their school garden ready for winter. Nice activity on a beautiful day. When I got home, W said she had to go see an apt by 2pm. (After telling me she is broke again). But then she didn't leave the house until 2. She spent 3o minutes getting dressed, complaining to me that she couldn't find the outfit she wanted. I am just baffled by her at this point. It's like she's a zombie. She left to study and I assume we won't see her until after dinner. No big deal here. I'm well detached today.
Had very little interaction with her these past few days. She thanked me for coming home from work early. I said my pleasure. She thought I was being sarcastic! Maybe I was. I haven't mentioned the third parking ticket yet but I did leave it conspicuously on the passenger seat of the car.
Have you order this isn't the season you think it is by Laura Munson
Her story reminds me so much of yours and they reconciled. Check out the book
I checked out a bunch of reviews of it and it seems to have gotten a lot of bad reactions! From the reviews it does sound sort of like my situation. What did you get from reading it?
Exhausted this morning but about to take my littlest on our Monday walk. W stayed out yesterday from 2 to 9pm, came home just in time for me to go to my gig. I'm baffled that she thinks it's normal to do this, but I'm fine being a de facto single dad right now. Saw her BFF yesterday and she was full of compliments on how I was looking and all my work with the kids. Said she hasn't seen much of my W lately. I said me either. Asked me a bunch of questions about Ws drinking, health, help around the house, I deflected and politely told her to ask W. She asked why her fam wasn't getting more involved. No idea.
This morning W asked me for gas money. I gave her 7 dollars. She kinda scoffed that I was giving her so little, and I just said that I really need to stretch money this week. I sensed a little snippyness as she left. I really need to come up with a game plan for her asking me for money, as it's just going to keep happening.
I've got so many parts of this sitch held down. It's the money thing, and figuring out how to reel her in so she's doing SOMEthing for the family and household, that's really hard. It's like she's just digging a hole straight down, and I'm up here holding a rope.
I guess I should clarify that I'm not really trying to "reel her in" on household/family tasks. That's on her, and I've done really well at having no expectations of her and thus little resentment in that area. It's more the cake eating aspect, that she can just come and go willy nilly and know that I will handle everything. What's crazy is that she doesn't even acknowledge the imbalance at all. Like she thinks this is just normal. Having one of those days where I just want to tell her to **** or get off the pot.
Had an amazing day w the kids. Got a necessary nap in while baby napped. Ate a great lunch and spent the day outside w the kids. Hung with Ws BFF again. We ended up having a longish convo about everything, where I reiterated that I'm putting in work for myself and boys and basically factoring her out. It's good to talk to her in small doses, as she is literally the only one with an open (ish) line to W right now, and I admit that I'm demonstrating my 180s/GAL to her pretty overtly, as I know she will relay that to W. She still struggles, as everyone seems to, with how to approach any of this with her. W is in a steel bubble.
She texted me while I was out that we needed to discuss picking up supplies for our Halloween gathering on Friday. I said I would pick up whatever we needed. "I thought money was tight?" Was her reply, referring to me not giving her much gas money today of course. Unbelievable entitlement at work here. I replied that I'm happy to make it work, didnt take the bait at all.
The book is about being a de facto single mom and not engaging with a person as he/she says one thing but does another.
It about serving this crisis and not pushing any additional buttons.
Without being a divorce busting book it adheres to the db criteria.
It's also a success story.
That sounds good, I bet I can find a cheap copy next time im in the relationships section. I suppose a lot of the reviews I read said "why was this woman even fighting to stay with this guy who didn't love her?" Which is generally the anti-DB sentiment to a T.
But sometimes I do wonder why I'm wasting time fighting for her when she clearly is doing nothing to deserve me. I know a better partner is out there.
Weird note tonight: our S6 came home today with a form letter in his backpack informing us that he is recommended for this therapy program for kids in "housing transitions". Huh? It wasn't directly addressed to us by name, but still. W showed it to me and said "you didn't tell his teacher we were separating did you?" I said of course not. I haven't. She seems distressed and has been on the phone with BFF for a good while. It's fairly likely that she doesn't believe me, or thinks that something is up that she doesn't know about. I honestly have no idea where this would have come from. Ironically, she's the one who wants a separation so this should be all on her. Very weird though. Could just be a strange coincidence or error or......what? Do public schools have affair detecting software?
We haven't told my D3 properly yet but she knows and her nursery picked up on it and asked. So it may have come from S6.
Yeah that's what I'm assuming, but I'm having a hard time imagining what my S could have said. We haven't discussed anything with him yet, but obviously he is aware that my W is not around as much.
I realize that her feelings on this are hers to deal with. She says she wants this, but doesn't want anyone to "know", and is obviously in fear of any judgment from his teachers/school. Well, she made this situation. I'm so sick of this.
I've taken the opposite approach and basically taken the view that my W doesn't get to do this and pretend she isn't.
Well thats what Ive been doing too. I just wonder if I've mistaken passivity for detachment. I am taking no responsibility in initiating the separation, beyond covering my own bases and looking after myself and the kids. But its brought me to this situation where I feel like she is not forced to make any decision or face any consequences.
I'm at a loss as to what to do (aside from whats already been working for me). W claims she has an "emotional connection" with OM. they clearly text all day and hang out several times a week. Should I be trying harder to "be there" for her emotionally? is acting like a distant neighbor just confusing her and pushing her away?
or should I just tell her enough is enough, that I can no longer allow this to go on and continue to respect myself?
these two courses are millions of miles apart.
Sandi has been posting some good points on this but I've not quite figured the in practice bit.
Basically she said WAW has no interest in an attachment with you emotionally or otherwise - in fact at the moment mine is DESPERATE to break all connection, to escape so she can guilt free pursue OM (and the meaningless hookups she says she wants) - what i think that means is that the more we try to be nice it just makes us look weak and needy which she won't respect.
Not quite figured out what that means at the moment for what I should do. If I don't intimate conversation at all then it just seems rude so a bit stuck on what to do. Doubt that helps but it might.
Yeah, I certainly dont do anything pleading or pursuing or overly nice. My fear is that I'm going too far in the opposite direction and just seem totally cold. With our schedules and all the coming and going, i can go a day or two or three without saying anything of substance at all to my W. it just feels really weird.
last night, i sensed that she was agitated about that letter Though I really didnt know what to say, aside from "well..what did you expect?" Ive gotten good at detecting when my reaction to her will be anger or emotion, and I check it, but then my response is just.....nothing. And i find myself second guessing that lack of a reaction, as it would be an example of me "shutting down" which my W dislikes. hard to find the right tack there.
oldest son came back downstairs shortly after she told me about the letter, so i went back up with him. when i came down, she was on the phone outside looking concerned, so i didnt want to intrude (prob talking with BFF about the letter). then when I went to check on her again she had left the house (to return the extra sleepers she bought). so no conversation about the letter. i went to bed.
this didnt feel right to me, so I sent her a text this morning telling her that I am open to talk about the letter if she wants, and that I was looking for her last night. I want to seem like I'm available for discussions that are important, right? she responded that she emailed his teacher and the contact listed in the letter. she didnt say WHAT she emailed the teacher though. should i ask?
I'm contemplating responding that S6 must have told his teacher something. Or should I let her reach that conclusion on her own. She's not likely to. I suppose the teacher will just tell her what she knows.
I just hate feeling "complicit" in hiding this. W clearly feels shame of some kind here and wants me to share in that somehow.
Aren't you tired of dancing on eggshells yet?
Gotcha. I guess I know what you mean but not exactly how to put it into practice. I feel like I am leading my family and W is just along for the ride. My main issue is if I should embrace my principle that I wont accept an open marriage. But I worry that its too soon for that.
It's never too soon to stand up for what you believe in.
Yup. Ive been writing a letter in my head for weeks now, outlining the principles that I'd like to officially "declare" with W. As an exercise for me, of course, but also with the intention of giving to her. Not a letter asking her to do anything, not pleading or stating any case for our M. I feel like she doesnt take me seriously. Maybe I dont take myself seriously.
Write a letter??? Seriously?
Might as well issue a memo .....
Write a letter??? Seriously?
Might as well issue a memo .....
Or, submit a strongly worded directive ???
I sense that Im being mocked, but I have no idea why.
Not gonna speak for Drew here....
MY thought however...
Why more words ??
And why are you looking to her for YOUR direction ??
You gotta live your life for you right now, REGARDLESS of how she reacts, follows, or otherwise...
Actions buddy. Strong positive, consistent actions...
You aren't gonna talk your way out of something that you acted your way into....
Yup. Ive been writing a letter in my head for weeks now, outlining the principles that I'd like to officially "declare" with W. As an exercise for me, of course, but also with the intention of giving to her. Not a letter asking her to do anything, not pleading or stating any case for our M. I feel like she doesnt take me seriously. Maybe I dont take myself seriously.
I think the point is - writing a letter is NOT a good idea.
If you must do it, write it out here first and get some input before you send it.
I dont think you are being mocked TBH
Ok. Well yeah, I have days where I think about the letter and days where I think its a terrible idea. Obviously I'm all over the place from day to day, in my postings here, but im trying to maintain consistency at home.
Ive been focusing on my life and my actions. Its hard to just live a life completely without her, as shes in and out all of the time. I'm struggling with where to apply boundaries.
basically i have no idea what to do aside from waking up every day, doing the work i have to do, providing for the kids and enjoying time with them, hopefully getting a little time to myself, and going to bed. maybe thats en-ough for now.
Ok. Well yeah, I have days where I think about the letter and days where I think its a terrible idea. Obviously I'm all over the place from day to day, in my postings here, but im trying to maintain consistency at home.
Ive been focusing on my life and my actions. Its hard to just live a life completely without her, as shes in and out all of the time. I'm struggling with where to apply boundaries.
basically i have no idea what to do aside from waking up every day, doing the work i have to do, providing for the kids and enjoying time with them, hopefully getting a little time to myself, and going to bed. maybe thats en-ough for now.
Well 1foot....
You are 3 months post bomb date, and still pretty fresh at DBing.
So I would imagine that a LOT of your decisions are emotionally based. And that will not help you when you interact....
Anything that you write, will just come across as pursuing, and pleading for another chance. Not attractive to anyone...
So yeah...
Take some time for your emotions to settle down, and you can act, rather than to REact...
Find out who you are, and be that...just for you
And please read about healthy boundaries, so that you can set the ones that need to be set.
And I'm pretty sure that enforcing them is the most important part of a boundary.
And from what I see, you aren't ready for that just yet....
Boundaries aren't set to "punish" her, they are set to protect yourself....
Ultimately I dont understand what that means. How do I set and enforce boundaries while not acting and focusing on me? Ive been inactive for close to 2 months now.
ugh I am going nowhere fast today. i think i need to get off the forum for a little while.
Ultimately I dont understand what that means. How do I set and enforce boundaries while not acting and focusing on me? Ive been inactive for close to 2 months now.
How ??
First off, what boundaries do you NEED to set ???
Why do you need to set them ??
Are you setting them because you are hurt ??
Or are you setting them to punish her ??
Are you setting them to fix anything about your relationship ??
Are you setting them so that she will "see" how you have changed ???
WHY are you setting them ???
And BTW, I am NOT against healthy boundaries. I'm just against boundaries that are manipulative....
I dont even really know. Im not sure i grasp the concept of a "boundary" in the sense that its used in DBing.
I'm definitely not mocking you.
I'm trying to get YOU to see for YOURSELF what you might be doing wrong. Of course, in my opinion.
There is an excellent book out there on "Boundaries" that isn't to hard to find ....
There's a very good summary of setting proper boundaries on the boards here that someone quotes, but it escapes me at the moment....
Just to think out loud. i dont know if these are boundaries or not
- I dont bring alcohol home. My W has a drinking problem, this is all I can see thats currently in my power to support her getting help. its also good for me.
- I dont snoop on her phone. I have read some of her posts about our S on a private messageboard, but its been a few weeks.
- I dont ask W where she is going or when she will be back when she leaves the house. When she is out, I do not have an expectation of when she will be back, so Im not let down or inconvenienced
- I dont do Ws laundry. Typically I do about 90% of the laundry in the house. I no longer do hers, just separate it out and leave it by the washer in the basement.
- I will pick up things at the store that W requests, but I keep this relatively small. Sometimes I do buy her small things that I know she likes and is probably afraid to ask me for. I do not buy her alcohol (though i got kinda tricked into that a few weeks ago)
Thanks, I will be reading through this tonight.
Well, crash course in boundary setting? One of my best friends from 1000 miles away is passing thru town tonight and staying for the night, just for a few hours really. I let W know this morning. She knows he's pretty filled in on the sitch (she also loves him, he's my tightest bud and the kind of guy everyone loves to be with), so I knew this would be awkward. I honestly thought she would just leave for the night, though I'd never suggest it. When I got home from work, she asked me if she thought she should stay and see him. I told her it was up to her. "But doesn't he hate me?" "W, nobody hates you." "But he knows about what's going on right?" I removed myself from the conversation. About a half hour later, I said "I want nothing more than for us all to be able to hang out. But the fact that we can't is not because of me." W looked confused, "what do you mean?" "The reason you don't feel comfortable with him is not because of what Ive talked with him about. It's because of your decision." She nodded. "And when you make me feel like I am responsible for you feeling bad or awkward, it hurts my feelings, and makes me feel like the bad guy." She nodded. Then she said "I just don't like anyone ever thinking bad of me." I wanted to say "then don't do bad things" but I just said "I understand that."
Boundary set?
Also, when I got home I asked her if she heard back from S6s teacher, she said no response yet. I said "the only thing I can think of is that he said something to her." W looked utterly incredulous. "Why would he say anything? What would he say?" She acted like I'd just told her the sky was orange. Later on, she said she heard back from the teacher, and that the letter had simply been put in his mailbox by mistake (??? This still seems really weird to me) She gave me an I told you so look, and I said "what was that for" and she said "maybe he told her" in a mocking tone, imitating me from earlier. I let it drop. I have no idea how to confront her complete denial on this.
Well friend will be here soon and I'll have an evenings respite.
Good night. W left to meet BFF for dinner just before friend got to town. We hung out for a good while, then talked about sitch. I explained to him that W wanted to see him but was scared he hated her. He said he was stressed about seeing her and didn't know how to act. I explained to him briefly my approach to her, friendly neighbor, PMA etc, and reiterated that it would mean a lot to her, everything about our M/S aside, if they got to just chat and catch up for a little while. I was worried she just wouldn't come home, to avoid seeing him, and I wanted her to feel like she had a choice. So I texted her that friend would love to see her for a bit, and she came home with her BFF. We all had friendly chat for about 20 minutes, before friend and I walked down the block for a drink. "I see what you're doing now" he said afterward "I understand your approach." I explained to him that the idea is to show myself happy and comfortable in my life, to show her what she's missing, and how just avoiding or shutting her out or having a cold awkward convo would not accomplish that.
So I had a nice night with a good friend, and also demonstrated some healthy PMA to wife. Coupled with my boundary setting early on, I feel good about the night.
Good job!
Starsky
About a half hour later, I said "I want nothing more than for us all to be able to hang out. But the fact that we can't is not because of me." W looked confused, "what do you mean?" "The reason you don't feel comfortable with him is not because of what Ive talked with him about. It's because of your decision." She nodded. "And when you make me feel like I am responsible for you feeling bad or awkward, it hurts my feelings, and makes me feel like the bad guy." She nodded. Then she said "I just don't like anyone ever thinking bad of me." I wanted to say "then don't do bad things" but I just said "I understand that."
Boundary set?
Maybe. Do you think she understood you were drawing a line in the sand? You threw some truth darts at her and told her how she made you feel. You got part of it down, anyway.
My question is how are you using a boundary here? A boundary protects you from something you will not tolerate. You obviously don't like it when she tries to make you feel responsible for her being uncomfortable. You have confronted her and told her how it makes you feel.
Sometimes it's not enough to just tell a person how their actions makes us feel. Especially when it is a man to woman situation, he can't afford to sound as if she
weakens him. Sometimes we have to state what we will do if that boundary is violated. But whether the action is stated or not, you have to be prepared to follow through with some type of action if she continues to do what she now knows you don't appreciate.
I applaud you for speaking up about it. It's a beginning.
I agree with sandi and Starsky here.
Sometimes it's hard to know how/where to draw the line.
But it's not our responsibility to manage their uncomfortable feelings. Part of them learning and growing is for them to take responsibility for how they deal with life.
It's like the culture of "educate yourself so you never offend anyone unintentionally". Everyone *should* know that this and that is offensive...
That's all well and good, and I think it is important to be sensitive to people and their needs. Learning proper terminology and educating yourself on people who are not like ourselves.
Does that mean that we need to take the heat if we "offend" someone with a well-meant comment or action?
At some point, the "offense" lies with them. We can't expect the world to cater to us and to prevent our feelings from getting hurt.
As adults it's our job to educate others on how we would like to be treated.
Having that little interaction with your W is interesting, and it sounds as though you injected a little reality there.
Her feelings are her business.
You just keep carrying on being true to your values, being civil, considerate, personable, and reliable. That's all you really need to do.
The degree of "friendliness" is something that seems to vary in every sitch. You want to be warm, but not over-involved, and don't rescue her from the natural consequences of her actions.
If you don't feel like being friendly, don't be. But don't be her "friend" either.
Like they say around here, "Be friendly like a neighbor." That's ALL she gets from you.
Let LIFE teach her what you cannot.
If you don't want to be around her, then don't be.
Hold your head high and move forward. She has her own decisions to make.
---(G)GGG
Thank you so much for the feedback. I agree that I came up short of stating a consequence. I'm unsure exactly what that consequence should be, although it's probably best to just start with politely ending the conversation if she violates the boundary again. W is smart. I could see the truth dart hitting her (I know when this happens because she gets this lost, listless look that absolutely breaks my heart). I know now what path to take in these conversations, and I feel great about that. As you can probably tell from my threads, I really struggle with owning my values/opinions with W and let her bowl me over. I feel more confident today, just having this one interaction with her (after reading that amazing coach thread) and knowing where to go from here.
The next step is addressing her comments about S6 telling his teacher. I need to express to her that I don't see him telling her as a bad thing (even though it apparently didnt happen), and that we should want to instill in our kids that they can confide in adults they trust. I don't want to silently agree with her idea that we keep the kids in the dark and trust that they will cover for us at school. This is not healthy.
Thoughts on how to broach that conversation?
1foot2,
If at all possible, try to avoid "telling" her anything about your consequences. Sometimes you can back yourself into a corner where you can't get out.
If you can let LIFE teach her by letting things happen naturally, you'll be better off.
I would suggest taking no action either way unless there really is a pressing issue. Listen, validate, and be the best parent you can be.
If she wants to know what transpired between S and teacher, let HER ask about it.
Set the stage for her to put on her BGPs and face reality.
If she has a question about something that happened with your son, you do not need to be the go-between, nor do you need to smooth things over between her and other family members/friends.
You need to protect and support your children, but that doesn't have to include covering for her. She has to own that.
She needs to take responsibility for her own feelings and actions. The way to make that happen is for you to stop doing it.
You don't have to be rude about it; you can just say, "It might be easier if you just asked him what happened."
There is no condemnation or judgement in that statement. It just is sensible parenting. She doesn't need you as an interpreter.
As for her not "wanting to feel like the bad guy". That's understandable!
Wouldn't it be great if we could all just do whatever we pleased with no repercussions?
I think for flying by the seat of your pants by saying "I understand that" was pretty darn good. Anything along those lines is good.
"Yes, I know it's a difficult situation/hard to know how to handle it sometimes/uncomfortable predicament/tough place to be right now..." and leave it at that.
You're not disagreeing that it s*cks to be the bad guy, but you're not rescuing her from her actions either.
-------------------------------------------------------------
But IT'S NOT YOUR JOB to help her feel better about what she'd doing.
It's also not your job to help her feel worse. (That'll drive her away for sure.)
You're just sort of---neutral. You validate and move on.
As for boundaries, that's a bit harder.
You can't "make" her do anything.
So they've got to be about what you will/will not tolerate for the health and well-being of yourself and your family. And what you do when she crosses one of them. No need to state the consequences. After a while it'll become apparent what will happen if she does x, y. z.
You can, however, state your boundaries if the situation arises.
"I will not do x. y. z..."
I'm not sure you need to tell her that you think this or that, (like it's ok for son to tell his teacher.)
Does she CARE whether or not YOU think it's good or bad? Most of the time, they're not caring a whole heck of a lot what we think or feel. Why burden them with that?
Cut to the chase and let your ACTIONS say it for you.
Yes, it would nice to agree on how this should be presented to the kids, but don't expect her to be on board with what you think "should" happen.
Trying to have even a reasonable "agenda" can feel like pressure to her.
(Certain exceptions apply, of course. Your kids come first. But make it about THEM, not about what you think or feel should be done.)
You can only control yourself, so if you feel it's reasonable that the kids should be able to express their emotions to trustworthy adults, you might just say:
"I am not going to tell my children that they can't talk to trusted adults about what they're going through, or any problems they might have."
If this is your stance and is agreement with your values as a parent, you don't need her permission. It cuts both ways. You can talk to your kids and support them in their choices, without cutting her down.
If they say "Well, mom said she doesn't want us doing x", you can ask them what THEY feel is the right thing to do for them. And then support their decision if it's a healthy one.
You don't need to say she's wrong, or anything else. You're the adult and you can steer the conversation to "I want you kids to always feel comfortable and safe, that's the most important thing."
Period. Don't make it about her. It's about the children.
You don't even need to imply that it's because of her actions. She knows that, and it also applies to ANYTHING the kids might be experiencing at any time that has nothing to do with your W and your M.
If they say something to her that she doesn't like and it gets back to you, you can simply reiterate to her:
"I told them I supported them talking about how they feel to adults they trust." Which is TOTALLY FINE of you to do.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a parent, but I was a social worker for many years and worked closely with troubled families and extreme parenting situations. So I have some experience which is pretty objective.
I would love to hear more what other parents have to say on this.
Hang in there,
--(G)GGG
I understand completely about the actions vs statements thing. Its definitely an area I need to bring into much stronger focus, in all areas of my life.
Just to get specific about this particular situation: the issue is that we havent said a word to our kids about what is going on. Its clear that my W feels that her relative absence around the house has been explained/justified/vague/sneaky enough that the kids have no idea what is going on. I agree that this is the case. I also feel implicated in this "pact of silence" for two reasons: I havent said anything to them, and I give vague, comforting explanations when they ask where she is ("shes with a friend, shes doing school work"), and because I feel slightly guilty for when I do take my time out of the house for GAL activities.
So its not that she wants to specifically "tell" S6 not to talk to his teachers, or to intentionally mislead him about whats going on, its that she believes he has no reason to tell them anything, and no reason to feel insecure/worried/afraid right now by what she's doing.
My concern is that when she asks me "what would he have told his teacher?" the implication is that I am the one making an outlandish suggestion that our/her actions are alarming our kids. When she asked this, my reaction was to say "I dont know" and hem and haw, because the only alternative was to say "he would have told his teacher that his mommy isnt around some mornings, or some sundays, and he doesnt know where she is". Saying this to her feels way too confrontational, and I am also plainly afraid of sticking her with that dart.
Im just thinking out loud here. Its not that I feel an urgent need to address this with her, I've been maintaining just fine for months now. But how long can we keep our kids in this limbo?
I agree with sandi and Starsky here.
Sometimes it's hard to know how/where to draw the line.
But it's not our responsibility to manage their uncomfortable feelings. Part of them learning and growing is for them to take responsibility for how they deal with life.
It's like the culture of "educate yourself so you never offend anyone unintentionally". Everyone *should* know that this and that is offensive...
That's all well and good, and I think it is important to be sensitive to people and their needs. Learning proper terminology and educating yourself on people who are not like ourselves.
Does that mean that we need to take the heat if we "offend" someone with a well-meant comment or action?
At some point, the "offense" lies with them. We can't expect the world to cater to us and to prevent our feelings from getting hurt.
As adults it's our job to educate others on how we would like to be treated.
Having that little interaction with your W is interesting, and it sounds as though you injected a little reality there.
Her feelings are her business.
You just keep carrying on being true to your values, being civil, considerate, personable, and reliable. That's all you really need to do.
The degree of "friendliness" is something that seems to vary in every sitch. You want to be warm, but not over-involved, and don't rescue her from the natural consequences of her actions.
If you don't feel like being friendly, don't be. But don't be her "friend" either.
Like they say around here, "Be friendly like a neighbor." That's ALL she gets from you.
Let LIFE teach her what you cannot.
If you don't want to be around her, then don't be.
Hold your head high and move forward. She has her own decisions to make.
---(G)GGG
AWESOME post, GG. Simply awesome.
Yes I am definitely going to revisit this post many times! Thank you GG.
I would love to hear more what other parents have to say on this.
I raised four kids (and now have two grandkids), and I wouldn't change a dang thing in there, GG. Your last two posts were GOLDEN.
Starsky
Yes I am definitely going to revisit this post many times! Thank you GG.
I just copied both of them and saved them in my personal DB archives! Awesome, awesome stuff, GoatGal.
Awww... Shucks. (Scuffing toe in the dirt and looking at the ground.)
T'weren't nuthin'...
Yeah. I can talk a good game.
LIVING it is 100 times harder.
But you guys know that.
Still, I'm learning.
I am a Work In Progress.
---Your Pal,
The Goal Gal
Yeah. I can talk a good game.
LIVING it is 100 times harder.
Of course. If it were easy,
everyone would do it.
Text exchange with W as I was leaving work.
W: Can u bring me home some wine? U are gonna say no but u should say yes!
W: did u get my text?
M: Just saw it phone was plugged in. I'm afraid I can't
W: why?
M: Because it's a principle I have to stick to
W: cool
----
That means she's mad. Too bad. Headed home now.
Oddly enough W was relatively warm to me when I got home. I had about 45 minutes downtime before a dj gig, and she came and gently woke me up from a doze in the couch so I wouldn't be late. She was smiling at me when I opened my eyes and for a brief moment everything was perfect.
I have a very hard time accepting that adopting a more assertive role will draw her back to me. It's just so truly counter to the typical dynamic or our R. If it works I will be so amazed, and happy.
I have a very hard time accepting that adopting a more assertive role will draw her back to me.
But she obviously thinks it is attractive.
"I have a very hard time accepting that adopting a more assertive role will draw her back to me. It's just so truly counter to the typical dynamic or our R. "
It's basic human nature. When you first dated I'm sure you were much more assertive and not afraid of what she thought of you as much as now. That's attractive.
Exactly. Little by little I feel myself finding my way back to that place. Feeling pretty positive today.
Got a text from W's BFF this morning: "I think its really good you didnt buy her that bottle of wine."
Hiya, 1Foot.
I've been a lurker. Wanted to drop in briefly and say this.
There is a difference between being assertive and aggressive. You might be afraid of appearing to be or being overly aggressive. Or the other possibly is confusing assertiveness with aggressiveness.
One can be firm and assertive without being abrasive and/or aggressive.
Make sense?
Yes, that makes sense. I am generally not an aggressive person at all, and I definitely need to learn more about the difference between the two.
Had a good sesh with IC today. Told her about my boundary experiments. She saw the wine text as a test and thinks I passed it in Ws eyes. It's hard to think of her testing me right now when she seems to think so little of me. But I have my eyes open to it now.
IC also suggested I schedule family therapy for kids on my own and invite W. Don't have to tell kids anything about S, just that they're going to talk with some people about anything that they want to talk about. She said I could then invite W, and she would probably go, and perhaps see the benefits of therapy. This sidesteps me having to confront Ws illusion that the kids aren't being affected by this. I like that idea.
My W didn't believe that the kids were affected at all too. At MC to just discuss the kids, I finally got her to admit that the kids were struggling and they keep asking her to come back home. Not sure if she really is thinking about it though, as she goes about her fogged thinking/talking less than a day later.
I've been debating family counselling. I did tell her earlier that I wouldn't send them to a counsellor without talking to her first. My D4 is having the roughest time with it.
There is a difference between being assertive and aggressive.
Thanks Wonka. You are correct and that is the word I
should have been using.
Well, a couple of busy days. W stayed out thurs night and I took all kids to school/sitter. When I got back, she had been home and made a list of things to do for our Halloween party. Hard to say if she had left the list in plain sight for me or for her, but I scrambled to do a handful of things on it before dashing out to work. She left work early to prep for party and I got off early as well to trick or treat. Party was a success, lots of kids came and everyone had a blast. Hard to be around W with so many other parents who know/don't know our sitch. She seemed very distant and a bit moody. I admit that I also had to force some PMA. Kids were scrambling around together in a pack so I just kept up with them and ignored W. Towards to end, it had gotten very cold, so I offered W my coat. Ws bff said "oh isn't he just the sweetest." W quietly agreed.
Went out to dj a Halloween party later after I house was cleaned and kids in bed. Fun times. Danced with a cute girl for a little while.
When I got home, I checked browsing history on laptop. I still do this occasionally, sometimes to see when my W went to bed, also because I'm sti curious if she is looking for apts. I know I shouldn't do this. I found that she had looked up a pregnancy due date calendar, that told her her baby is four weeks along.
Yeah. Now she could have been looking at this for other reasons. Maybe her bff missed a period, maybe a girlfriend she was chatting with online. But it seemed to explain her very distant behavior from earlier.
I went upstairs. Boys had climbed into bed with her so I took them back to their beds and tucked them in. W thanked me, as it's hard for her to sleep with the boys piled on her. I gave her a quick embrace, and told her that it used to be my duty to hold her at the end of the night and make sure everything was ok with her, and that its been very weird just going to bed alone for the past two months without checking on her. She said it was weird for her too. I patted her back and said goodnight and went to bed alone.
If she's pregnant, I'm worried for her. In her last A, she got pregnant by om and had to travel out of state for an abortion. It was immensely difficult for her, and I tried to be there for her however I could. It also spelled the end of the A.
She is so lost right now. I'm still detached but this was a blow.
I will add that I tried to give her a lot of affirmation about the party. I had wondered if she was even going to pull it off given how scattered she's been, but she did it. I pitched it and helped out wherever I could, and we high fived at the end.
I suppose I will continue to monitor from a distance re: her being pregnant. I will need to offer her some kind of strength and support without getting too close. I love her and don't want to let her fall. But I know that I'm on the right path to being a better person for myself and my kids.
In the midst of spending a whole day with them today. W texted asking if I have plans with them today (she still hasn't come home) and I said yes. She will show up whenever she wants to I guess.
Don't take this the wrong way, but since she has experienced pregnancy and abortion from a previous A, why on earth wouldn't she have her tubes tied? She obviously does not learn from her mistakes. It would seem she would get a little smarter if she's going to sleep with other men.
I don't how you deal with this. I really don't. You deserve better.
No offense taken. Hence the title of my thread! She's struggling, making bad decisions that she hides from everyone including herself. Having her tubes tied would mean admitting that she's out of control, and she can't do that.
It's out of my hands. I feel oddly at peace.
Having her tubes tied would mean admitting that she's out of control, and she can't do that.
Strange. Were the two of you planning for more children?
No we definitely werent planning anymore. The only real discussions we've had have been about me getting it done.
Pretty normal interactions with W yesterday and this morning. After I went out last night, she sent me a text thanking me for responding to her text sat night (she was staying out that night, but texted me around midnight to ask me to check on the baby for her. I actually didn't respond to it until early sunday morning. If she has random anxiety about the baby while she's staying w/om, Ive got nothing for her.) I waited a while to respond but eventually just said no problem.
Maybe it's starting to set in for her just how bizarre she's acting? I'm at a loss for what to do aside from keeping up what I'm doing. I definitely feel like my efforts are having some kind of effect on her but at the same time, she has everything she wants. She brought home a six pack last night and said "well I went four days without wine, but I got a six pack tonight. I'm just going to have one." She offered me one and I declined. Now she was out of the house two of those nights so I assume she drank then but still.
Limbo is a strange place.
Feeling low. Got home with kids from zoo at the same time W got home from work. She got a package in the mail from an old friend who makes perfume. They made her her own perfume, called " momentum". OM gets to smell it on her.
Feeling like ****, any four letter word will do. Hating all of this. Heading to the gym.
1foot2,
"Maybe it's starting to set in for her just how bizarre she's acting? I'm at a loss for what to do aside from keeping up what I'm doing. I definitely feel like my efforts are having some kind of effect on her but at the same time, she has everything she wants."
Sorry, but I wouldn't count on her figuring that out any time soon. This is for the long haul.
As for being at a loss, remember, these are changes you are making FOR YOU.
I think this is a newbie thing. Everyone wants to believe that if they do everything "just right" it's going to "work" and the wayward spouse will return ready and able to recommit.
It just doesn't work that way. As long as you're basing your success or failure on the results with your spouse, you'll be wasting valuable time you could have spent making yourself feel better and become stronger--thereby being a more attractive mate.
You make the improvements you need to make based on what is important TO YOU to be a better person. Not trying to do this or that to make her react this way or that way.
A. It comes off as phony.
B. You'll never be able to sustain it, because
C. You're doing it for the wrong reasons.
You've got to get it out of your head that you can control this by your actions.
That's where the detachment comes in.
Or call it "acceptance". I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. They just don't want to accept what is happening and they are desperate for a "fix".
We don't want to accept that our spouses have checked out, so we hold onto a vision of how things "ought" to be. But they're not that way, and the sooner we grasp that and start behaving accordingly, the sooner things will get better for us.
There is no fix. I wish there were.
The only hope for your M is to follow DBing, and that means to focus on YOU and not on her.
Put your well-being first, figure out what kind of person you want to be, then make the changes you need to make to make that happen PERMANENTLY.
Your M and your wife come second right now.
IF you start piecing, that will change.
But not now. Not if she is actively involved with anyone else, or trying to be.
--(G)GGG
Thank you goat gal, that is just what I needed to hear. I'm walking to the gym now, dr in my bag.