Looks like threads can't get bigger than 11 pages? Guess time to start another one.....
Link to previous
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2495905&page=1Quick update.....
last night was rough for the wife because my daughter was up all night and then she had to go to work today. I had to get gas and money for babysitter on the way home from work so I got a coffee for my wife. When I got home she was rushing and behind and had to leave quickly for wirk. She seemed extremely thankful for the coffee because she didn't have time to stop for one or even pack he lunch. I wished her a good day and that was it. About a half hour later she text me "thank you very much for my coffee, sorry I was in such a hurry".....weird....but ok....I'll take the positive.
Tonight we went to dinner and I kept the positive attitude and practiced active listening by repeating what she said in my own words. Even though she had been pretty distant this week, she opened up and told me about her whole week. It was nice to have the small talk. I ordered a margarita. ...which I never do .....she did the same....it really threw her off when I ordered a meal that I've never had. (I always order the same foods when out)
maybe the small bit of alcohol helped, but either way....it was relaxing and seemed very comfy.
now its time to chill at home for the evening. I had thought about going out, but instead I told my wife since she was tired and had a rough week...I would take care of my daughter all night if she gets up. She said I don't have to claim it because she is used to getting no sleep. Rather than my normal response to her sarcasm.....I just said "I don't mind ...really! " once again....she was thrown off.
I know it's all part of the roller coaster, but I'll take all the positive times I can get!
good job dying. you'll find that every time you buck your old trends, it gets easier. unfortunately sometimes the WAS up their attacks to try to get you to respond. DON'T!
"good job dying. you'll find that every time you buck your old trends, it gets easier. unfortunately sometimes the WAS up their attacks to try to get you to respond. DON'T!"
Yes they do! Good job, dying.
This evening was quiet. Earlier in the day I asked if she had any plans and she said no. I asked if she would feel like renting a movie or play a game. She said "maybe if it's early because I'm pretty tired"
After I put my daughter to bed, I came downstairs and my wife was watching her show. No biggie....we had a good evening at dinner. So I just made some popcorn and watched the show. When it was over (it's on netflix) she shut it off and it was 9 pm. It was silent .....it's chose not to say anything since I had planted the seed earlier. After about 5 min of silence, she asked if I still wanted to play a game. So we played a card game. It was somewhat quiet but not awkward .....so, I turned on the automatic random laser pointer for the cat to chase around. C'mon, let's face it.....who isn't going to have fun watching that????
I brought up that I took my daughter to gymnastics last week (she insisted only one of us needed to go because she was mad) and asked if she wanted to take her this week because I had planned on going to an open karate class around the same time. She agreed.
I inquired about plans for the following weekend and told her I may have to work. She said that she was thinking of hanging out w a coworker (female). I just said ok, cool. But you may need to find a sitter because it will be my weekend to work. And asked if they had specific plans or just going out and wing it? She said a few of the girls from work may goto a haunted house about an hour away. Normally I would ask for a ton of details......I stopped myself.
Honestly, I did consider the fact that MAYBE the male coworker I accused her of having EA w may be going....but I just buried that thought and told her I haven't been to a haunted house in years and I hope they have fun.
We finished the game, she said good night and went to bed.
Now I'm going to watch a movie and talk to my buddy jim......Jim beam. No worries, not getting drunk. ....just a mixed drink.
All in all, I think it was a "good" day.
I really want to have my wife read the article "the marriage map" from the home page. It makes so much sense and I can relate exactly! I have been through the stages and feel I'm starting stage 4 since my wife and I have brought our issues to head. However, I feel my wife is stuck in stage 3 and really fear she has fallen into the divorce trap
Trying to remain positive. I just hope our next MC session is positive and she either needs more time and wants to at least continue where we are or makes a breakthrough and says she wants to try piecing us back together. It would be so much easier if it wasn't one sided.
I know, I know. ...wishful thinking. ..... but I can't give up
Hoping for a good day again ..... going to an event w our daughter....shoukd be a fun time. Must stay focused on positive thoughts! Must eliminate expectations!
Well, the place we had to go wad a TWO hr drive....I thought it was one hr. Just made for a longer silence. Minimal conversation.
Daughter had a great time. At first I started getting anxious inside about not being able to at least hold my wife's hand....especially when being around a lot of couples that seem happy . The wife started getting frustrated w my daughter and I almost gave in and got mad. But I kept my cool (barely) and turned to what few minor positives I could dig up......my daughter was smiling. ...I love her smile......and I was there w my wife and daughter. Even though she has told me she doesn't love me and I hurts like hell to just coexist beside her.....she is still there and hasn't left .
On our way home now....In silence
I guess it's better than sitting home alone 1
Should I assume my wife is on an emotional roller coaster like I am? She is still considered a WAW even though we still live ttogether right?
I'm having a REALLY bad day and getting lots of negative thoughts. I really REALLY would love to have just a hug from her and really want to ask her for it.......Assuming that would be a step back ?
Should I assume my wife is on an emotional roller coaster like I am? She is still considered a WAW even though we still live ttogether right?
I'm having a REALLY bad day and getting lots of negative thoughts. I really REALLY would love to have just a hug from her and really want to ask her for it.......Assuming that would be a step back ?
Dying, from everything I have seen/read, yes they do EVENTUALLY get on the rollercoaster in most cases.. I think it boils down to the fact that the WAW does not want to show it though.. Maybe one of the vets will correct me, but that's how I see it..
Yes, asking for a hug would be a step back as it is showing neediness, and that is unattractive to the WAW (or women in general).. We have all been where you are, and most of us are still there.. I would like some affection at times from my W at times too, but one thing we have to remember is that we need to show them we are all good, even when we are not..
Keep your head up and strong.. Remember, the bad days are like a cigarette craving when you are quitting.. If you pull through that craving without giving in, the next one won't be so bad and it will eventually get A LOT better..
I had some horrible dreams last night. I guess the positive side is I actually slept?
Almost was in tears this morning. Got up early and did the weekly grocery shopping. ....never looked at my list but remembered everything. ...haven't done that in years....that's positive#2 I guess....
I did take my vitamins and an herb that I've been using for anxiety (Kava root) , ate breakfast and having coffee.....starting to feel better. My wife should be getting up soon.....let the day begin.....
Ugh
I don't think my wife has hardly ever seen me do any cooking other than breakfast on weekends or the occasional instant brownie mix. Unless you count steaks or burgers on the grill......
Anyway, this morning I made two pumpkin rolls from scratch.....she didn't even know what to say. When she got home from work they were in the fridge and asked where I got them ....I said "I made them"..... she paused and her eyes opened a bit wider and said "you did?!?!?"
I met a friend while out last night, part of my GAL. This guy suggested that I cook dinner for the family just out of the blue, something in a crock pot or whatever. Let her discover it when she gets home from work. Funny to see your cooking story, has inspired me to give it a try.
Same guy a week or two ago recommended that I start taking walks with the kids and invite the WAW. The next day I was listening to ... He felt a walk 3-4 times a week with the whole family, no phones or earbuds, would help keep the family together. There's something about everyone facing the same direction for 45 minutes. So having two signs in two days I gave it a try. I tell the kids we're going for a walk and she has chosen to go most of those times. Seems positive. Took the kids to the park and we went for a walk there. Give it a try if it fits your sitch.
Good luck. God bless.
She seemed in a really good mood today and we painted the living room and I mounted the TV on the wall....Both things we've been wanting to do for a year. She did have a few moments that she seemed irritated and snapped at me, but I just kept to myself.
Not sure if she is making the house better to live here or get it more presentable if we have to put it up for sale ......There is my negative side again darn it!
I do it too. Just stay in the moment and don't analyze it.
so , i'm thinking again....uh oh.....
a couple weeks ago as part of my GAL, i started back to my karate classes. prior, my wife started going to an aerobic / kickboxing class with one of her female friends/co-workers.
anyways, yesterday when I was talking about going to class (and possibly an extra class on saturday) my wife said "I think i'm going to start going to kickboxing on mondays" I asked if it was in place or or in addition to she said "i'd like to go two days a week" I told her that is fine and i'll watch our daughter that night while she is there. I mentioned something about her friend being able to go that often because of recent surgery (c-section) and she said "no, she probably won't go...just me).
strikes me as odd....she typically doesn't do things on her own like that. just making a note.
I think she was irritated a little tonight. our daughter was giving issues about going to sleep and kept crying. I told her to just let her cry for a while and then we could check on her. I told her if she keeps going, I'll go up next time. well....the daughter was quite for about 20 minutes and I dozed off (napping before having to go to work for the night as sunday is the day I do not sleep all day / night). I woke up to my wife closing her laptop and saying "I guess I'll go lay with her and just go to bed for the night" I had just sat up, still half asleep, and she looked at me and didn't say a word. no "good night", "have a good night"....nothing.
I feel like it was a set back because I didn't follow through with going up to see our daughter....but I fell asleep
I know i'm making excuses, but i fee pretty bothered.
probably me over analyzing but, earlier in the day she took her ring off while painting. then she had to run to target and to pick up pizza for dinner. she changed clothes, cleaned up and left her ring on the counter. She never put it back on. she NEVER used to leave the house without her ring.
she did seem to do a bit of roller coaster today. i was a little bit, but not TOO bad. I did manage to avoid confrontation when she was on her down swing.
positive ..... overall, I feel we had a decent weekend. we worked together and finished painting the living room, I did NOT have any break downs around her....I kept my cool, even though she did a few things that bothered me.
I made sure that I complimented her on working hard as well. I posted pics of our accomplishment on facebook and gave her credit for most of the work and for motivating me.
honestly, was thinking ALOT today about our next MC session. I'm concerned / scared. I hope that she is willing to at least agree to forget about (or at least postpone) a move out separation and continue as is for now. in my eyes, i really haven't given her much to "complain" about the past couple weeks.
I really missed sleeping in OUR bed over the weekends though. even though I don't touch her or have any intimacy what so ever (and don't expect any) , just sleeping apart feels so....WRONG and LONELY
hope to at least maintain for now but really am hoping for more change in a positive direction.
any encouraging words would be appreciated. I'm constantly looking to the board for positive thoughts and suggestions.
quick question.... as part of the GAL, people frequently say to make plans on occasion that COULD include the wife if she wanted to invite herself (from what I understand)
how would I do that in my situation where we would have to plan well in advance to get a babysitter??
just thinking and needed to let out a bit...........
so I'm reading some of the success stories and it is making me feel like there is hope. Detaching is NOT easy, and I'm trying to get through it. Maybe searching for hope is not a good thing when I'm trying to detach, but some days that little bit of hope is what gets me through the day and keeps me being able to ace "as if" I am happy to continue my life by myself.
Honestly, deep down I know that it gets better over time as I went through a heartbreak years ago. it took me about 10 years to finally open my heart (which was to my wife) and trust again.
I fear the uncertainty, but am trying to stay in the moment and realize that the future has not been determined yet and i cannot control my wife's decision. I can only control what I do and hope she realizes that we can be BETTER than ever together.
The wife seems very distracted today. When I got up, she was reading to my daughter and looked like eyes were bothering her.... and as soon as my daughter saw me she jumped off mommy's lap and wanted me to read to her. Not sure if that started it or not. She has been pretty quiet and playing w her hair "looking for split ends) much more than normal. I asked if she was ok and she said she was just tired and her knees hurt. Tried conversation about work but she kept it pretty short. I asked what time her class started and she said she wasn't going. She was all hung Ho yesterday about the class....
Oh well, I just went on my way and made dinner , cleaned up and now cooking my lunches for the week.
Maybe she will offer to talk later. ....really bothers me to see her upset about something. ....feels like something is bothering her....not just tired.
Guess just keep the "as if" going
Don't keep pushing. Just let her be.
not pushing, just tried initiating conversation a couple times but just let it go after I see that she obviously wasn't into it.
I actually kept the smiles going all evening, played with our daughter while laughing and made a few jokes to the wife.
I'm actually pretty impressed that I am able to do that. a month or two ago there is NO WAY I could have held it together.
Recognizing the wins...duplicating and learning from them. That's how the DB train goes.
Keep it up, dying (you need a new screen name!) Oh, shoot, I'm projecting expectations on you.
(REPHRASING)
I really think you're an upbeat guy in spite of your circumstances. How does your screen name fit you?
I'm trying to recognize the wins an work with them. it's hard. later this evening I saw an ad about the new dumb & dumber movie coming on Nov. 14th. my wife and I both LOVED the first one and we used to reference it frequently. I said "think you would like to see the new dumb and dumber movie when it comes out?" holy hell you'd think I asked her if she wanted to renew our vows or something?!?!?! she got very defensive and said "I don't know" (very sarcastically) I said "I just asked if you were interested" she responded "when is it????" (still, very sarcastically) , I told her it comes out november 14th. she just said "I don't know, How should I know?!?"
****OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS NOT A WIN - NOTED!!!****
holy cow! I guess I should have known better because of the way she was acting this evening. But, i figured touching base on something that I KNOW she thinks is funny and that she has mentioned as recently as two months ago would be an ice breaker. It was more of an earth shatter . darn!
Anyway, that is the point at which I would NORMALLY blow my fuse and have a major break down! honestly, the thoughts did start circulating through my head as "<well, I guess that answers any questions that I had. she obviously doesn't think we will be together next month>" (was just a thought, I didn't say it) and it really started to bother me. I quickly redirected my thoughts to "I will just make plans to go see it with someone else and if she wants to go, that's fine. if not, I will just have fun" . I can't tell you how hard it is when I have a situation like this tonight. However, i did make it through. I won't lie though, I'm definitely a little more worried about our next MC meeting Thursday.
I just started getting my stuff ready for work, packed my lunch and was practicing for an upcoming test in karate class. then just as I went to the restroom, I heard her get up from the living room because it was time for her to go to bed. She waited for me to come out so she could say good night and tell me "I hope you have a good night".
I guess it's all part of her roller coaster.....
anyways, as for my screen name. I couldn't think of anything. and I just put how I was feeling. at times I still feel like I'm dying inside because my heart has been ripped out and stomped on and not being able to do anything about. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle but I refuse to give up as hopeless as it may seem. I cannot stand the thought of losing my family. I had thought about changing my screen name, but not sure how anyways.
you are correct about being upbeat. I'm always the one to be able to lighten moods. I'm typically the FUN person. not to sound ignorant, but I could make people laugh and feel relaxed at a funeral. Just lately I feel so worthless, so beat down, and like nothing matters. some days better than others, but they are all hard
having a really bad night....one of those nights that I just feel like giving up
just having a really bad night - I work third shift (it's 1 am now) and I am trying to stay positive and not think about the negative things, but they are over powering me tonight. It doesn't help that things aren't going so well at work either. I have a lot of spare time on my hands because I'm a supervisor. I come to this forum for uplifting thoughts and encouragement. I read as much as I can but it seems to be the same old stories everywhere.
I know I shouldn't be analyzing, but every thought I have tonight ends up making its way back to me thinking of my wife and our relationship. the stress is pushing me to my breaking point. I just feel like blowing up. i'm trying to think of things to do as my GAL , and it is REALLY a challenge. I really don't have many friends because I've spent so much time in the past several years investing in my family and our home (remodeling two houses now). My one good friend is moving to Florida in the spring. I've made my wife and daughter my everything. now that i'm in danger of losing that and it's ripping me apart. I'm not feeling too good about my self or my future. My patience is wearing very thin and I'm losing my self esteem.
how do you all deal with it day in and day out?
like i said earlier, I'm really paranoid about the counselor meeting thursday.
I know I'm just thinking too much and it's making me have a breakdown!
as everyone has at one point, i wish it could all just be fixed today.
I don't understand how she can seem so cold. she used to be such a loving and caring person.
I'm trying to put on a front as if i will be fine no matter what, but my heart keeps making me feel the exact opposite.
I know this probably all sounds like babble, and I guess it is because my head is really spinning in chaos right now
deep down i know that I am creating this chaos by dwelling on the negative thoughts, but tonight I'm having an EXTREMELY difficult time controlling it.....
GRRRR!!!!!!
I have thought about doing a sample budget to see where each of us would be financially if we were to separate, but I just can't get myself to do it.
I know I need to detach, but tonight I feel like it's so cold. I feel like if I detach more, I will be inflicting the hurt that she is putting on me when I feel like she is perfectly fine with splitting up. I try to think about her feeling like I do and wanting me back so badly if I just treated her like she does me, but then I think why would I put her through the pain that I can't stand myself.
can you see that I'm very confused and lost tonight?
"I know I need to detach, but tonight I feel like it's so cold. I feel like if I detach more, I will be inflicting the hurt that she is putting on me when I feel like she is perfectly fine with splitting up. I try to think about her feeling like I do and wanting me back so badly if I just treated her like she does me, but then I think why would I put her through the pain that I can't stand myself.
"
Ignore this train of thought and pull back. You've got to be doing these things for your PMA and your life. Not to win her back. Get YOU in order and if one of the by-products is winning her back, then excellent. If you don't fix YOU, you are going to loose her for sure and you're going to take this mess with you everywhere you go and into every relationship.
I know it's tough to detach when y'all are under the same roof. But you must realize how many people on this forum would kill to have even the situation you have. I know you are not deeply religious (if even at all) but you need to start making a gratitude list or something to help get your mind off of you and on to the positives you have going for you.
You got this, just stop analyzing (says the guy to over analyzes everything).
thanks for the response. i'm really trying to ignore that train of thought. I know I'm doing this for me.....i'm not trying to change JUST to win her back. the part that bothers me is the "IF" I win her back. I know, that is counterproductive....but it's the truth and I'm sure everyone has been at that point.
I know today /tonight will pass and it will get better. I don't know why I'm dreading the counseling session so badly. Maybe she is too?
my thoughts are like this:
- two weeks ago, she wanted to separate and we agreed that we would stay in same house and I would give her space.
- i fear that she is going to insist on separating
- but wait, I have given her space...I haven't really bothered her...I haven't inquired about the relationship....I haven't pressured her (that I know of)....she has no reason to want separation
- but she seems more distant because she hasn't talked to me much
- if she wants me to move out I do not feel like I should - if SHE wants a separation, then SHE should find a place
- I should be loving and move out to give her more space
- I cannot be the one to leave , I need to be with my daughter each day
- why am I thinking like this, i can't control it
- ok, stop, breath....she hasn't left.....yet
- she doesn't love me, she doesn't want anything to do with me
- I need to detach and she will miss me
- she just wants me to leave
and the list goes on..... blah!
you are right, i'm not religious at all
I try to think of everything I'm grateful for, but then my stupid negativity keeps interfering and making me feel like what good is any of it without them.
i just need to get through tonight, go home and sleep all day and wake up with a fresh start.
analyzing is what I do, i've always done it. I have an engineering mind. I've always been the person that fixes things all the time. I have issues with persistence.... i'm really holding back A LOT and that is one of my 180's....but it's building and getting harder
My problem (really) is expecting some sort of sign from her. I know that is WRONG.....and I know that is what's killing me!!!! I've worked on everything that I can so far that was an original complaint. I'm just trying to muster up the courage to be more patient and not expect anything. I am trying to be loving, but how can I do that without crossing the line or breaking the rules?
i'm just extremely frustrated .
ok, re-reading the rules to help my negativity. this is my thoughts ...... any input is greatly appreciated. the more I read stuff, the better I feel...so please participate.
rule number 8 - do not buy gifts to make "brownie points"
maybe I broke that one this morning? I had text my wife this morning (as I almost always do) because when i left last night my daughter was having issues going to sleep. when that happens, she is usually up frequently and my wife doesn't get much sleep. anyways, my wife said Daughter was up a lot and they didn't get much sleep. She was running late, so I offered to stop and pick up a cup of coffee for her on the way home since I was ahead of schedule. she just said "if you don't mind, that would be great" so I did...... is that breaking the rule, or is it allowed as long as it isn't frequent ?
rule number 9 - do not schedule dates together at this point & number 5 - do not encourage talk about the future ...... I think I may have touched on these two by inquiring about seeing the dumb and dumber movie that comes out in November...??
rule number 12 - act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them < - - this by far is one of the hardest things for me!!!!!! i need some major help on this one
rule number 24 - be patient...very , very patient. < - - this is another hard one for me lately! I should feel thankful that we are still in the same house, but it's still not easy.
rule number 18 -do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and see if it is noticed.....everything I do feels cold. all I want to do is lover her and show it, but that defies rule number 1. however, isn't waiting to see if she notices having an expectation?
rule number 33- do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel - I'm starting to struggle here. at first it was easy because I felt like there is nothing that could make me give up. I'm starting to lose faith
rule number 36 - I have done this a couple times just to get out. my nephew works at bars as a "bouncer" he is HUGE!! we discuss bodybuilding together. he and his wife seem to have the prefect marriage (very young @ age 23 & 26) - but found out it's just a front on face book. he said it's not anywhere near perfect ...then he proceeds to tell me about all the times he cheats on her then offers to hook me up with some hot chicks... it made me sick actually - I can see why this rule should be followed
rule number 37 - do not backslide from your hard earned changes - this one is hard to follow. seems like we ALWAYS have back slides....but they seem to get less frequent and less substantial.
is my situation still considered a WAW even though we are still living together?
I'm really hoping it isn't too late
I'm actually in a much more positive mood at the moment. However, I feel like I'm starting to look to the cold side just to keep from having a break down.
How do I walk the line of detaching and being cold hearted?
I know i'm asking a lot of questions and going in circles, but if it were easy..... no one would be here.
I did not initiate any contact this morning. No text from work or anything. (Normally send good morning text and ask how night with my daughter went).
Got home and only said "good morning" , packed my daughters lunch and then went upstairs to wake my daughter to get her ready (I usually initiate conversation , but didn't say a word this morning)
I was getting my daughter ready and my wife came in and said good morning to our daughter, kissed her and told her bye & I love you.
I asked what time my daughter got up because her pillows and blanket were in my wife's bed. She told me about 5 am and said she was laughing in her sleep. Then she told my daughter she loved her again and then walked out of the room. As she was walking away she said "see ya later" (she normally talks more and tells me to sleep good and have a good day) I simply told her to have a good day.
I wasn't unpleasant or anything, just didn't pursue conversation like usual.
That is the least amount of conversation we've had for quite a while. Honestly, it sucked! It hurt! And I freakin hate it.
Here is the part that I really have to get control of..............
I know I'm not supposed to worry about the future, but My gut feeling (which is usually right and I should have learned to follow it a long time ago) is telling me that in our counseling meeting this week she is going to say she doesn't want to work together on the relationship And she wants a full separation. I REALLY hope my gut is wrong.....
Any advice for how to react ?
if she wants a separation, she will more than likely want ME to move out. I will not. Is it wrong for me to feel that if she insists on it and I do not , that SHE should have to move? I feel so horrible even THINKING about my daughter going through this.
She has said in the past that I can't expect her to change her mind over night about how she feels, I understand that.....shouldn't it work the other way too? Why not give us ample time to work on things now that I'm aware of how she feels and what I need to do?
I feel so bitter and cold just thinking about it
Oh yeah, one more thing......almost two moths ago I started messaging my wife's best friends (they were in our wedding) and they are all out of town. We have been trying to set up a surprise get together "spa day" for them to have fun and reminisce. I never mentioned anything about our relationship issues I just wanted to do something nice for my wife because I know she misses her friends.
Anyway, I was wondering if I should continue with planning that get together or should I politely tell them that we will not be able to follow through with it?
As far as I know, only one of them has any idea that we are having issues because my wife confided in her back in June.
Opinions ?
Looks like I may end up filling my 11 pages myself ....
okay, my man, you need to RELAX. Seriously, if I could give orders, I'd give you one now. You are going through a manic cycle I know all too well. Visualize a STOP sign in your head. Get some rest.
Re-read the 37 rules daily. If your W is agitated, happy, sad, joyful, cold, whatever. Often, her agitation stems from you giving her exactly what she wants - separation - and then she has to work through why that is bothering her.
You have to be consistent. Pull back. Be upbeat. Limit conversation. She must come to YOU. Restrict conversation w/ wife to logistics and shared concerns for daughter.
Let the spa thing die a natural death. That is a no-go in so many ways.
Do not move out. Love your daughter. Encourage your W anytime you witness her exhibiting love and kindness toward your daughter.
Research validating statements and memorize.
Use this energy to make yourself better, more prepared. Not desperate. Detaching is a B!+@#. And, it requires practice. Log your wins. This morning, brief convo without conflict, was a WIN, whether you realize it as such or not.
I know, I'm trying to relax. I'm posting here because I have no one to talk to about it and it actually makes me feel better (a little)
I try reading the 37 rules a lot. It's hard to be upbeat when I'm so miserable. I haven't showed it in almost two weeks.
We do not talk about relationship at all.... Haven't since last counsel meeting. Almost wondering if we should pause counseling until she acknowledges that SHE wants to work on us too?
The spa thing is trying to get people from three different states together....been difficult to plan....but I will just wait to see if the friends are still in , I won't bring it up unless they do.
'My wife hasn't expressed anything but love for our daughter. Sometimes it's like she over does it in front of me out of spite....
Validating statements?
Time to try sleeping........
Got up from sleeping and only said "good morning" to my wife .....made my coffee and played w my daughter. The wife looked at me a few times like she was waiting for me to ask how work was for her as I usually do.......I didnt.
Finally after about 15 min she said "how was work last night?"
We chatted a very short bit then I started getting ready for class.
I guess I need to mark this as a minor win?
Absolutely. That's where it starts. I like the new screen name!
Me Too, I don't feel like I need to call the coroner every time I visit your thread, now.
Got home from class and only said hi. Made a couple sandwiches and sat down to eat....In silence as she played on her phone. After about 5 min or so, she broke the silence . Actually laughed a few times talking about our daughter and wife made a couple jokes about her toys.
Baby steps.....but I guess tiny wins
As for the screen name.....thanks. but I still feel like I'm dying inside
Wh am I worrying so much about the next counseling ? Things haven't been bad but I just have the feeling that something major is wrong (more wrong than normal).
feel like I'm going to have another bad night with anxiety
I really shouldn't let it bother me....but it's ripping me apart. I'm not showing it to her anymore, but I'm getting to where I can't deal with it. I'm not liking many thoughts that I'm having
I know we are not supposed to feel like we NEED someone, but I'm having a very hard time with that. Ironic because when my wife and I were dating my attitude was " I want someone to be a part of my life, not be my life". Over the years of being married, that has changed and I feel WRONG to not "need" her....like I'm abandoning
On a positive note, she went to bed and said good night. Another conflict free day.
However..... I really miss her telling me she loves me......I really miss her loving me. But she has to choose that....I can't force it ......I can only hope
some advice needed....
last session she wanted a trial separation of a couple weeks (me go stay with a friend) - I was starting to plan it but just couldn't leave my daughter. So we are trying to separate as much as possible while in the same house for a couple weeks. we do not sleep in same bed during week because we work opposite shifts. for the past two weekends I have slept in the spare room on weekends. However, i have still been coming home early to take my daughter to daycare so she can get to work earlier, I still take my daughter when the wife wants to go do something, I still make dinner on occasion and we still talk (not much though).
if she insists on a separation:
1. I feel SHE should be the one to move since I want no part of separating. I feel that would make things worse...especially for my daughter. is that wrong?
2. should I make tell HER to sleep in spare room ?
3. should I quit leaving work early so SHE has to get my daughter ready and to daycare? my boss is pushing for me to stay til normal time anyways and the wife knows it was not a permanent thing.
4. I'm afraid of how we can handle transactions with my daughter. i would want to see my daughter every day, but it will rip my heart out even more to see my wife every day when not together.
5. how do I keep from being cold since it will be so one sided?
I have read in other threads about a guy that remained his wife's best friend after they separated even when she was seeing someone else....I don't think that can be me. As much as I love her and want to be with her, the thought of her persisting on separating seems like it would build so much resentment that I wouldn't even be able to look at her (i know that sounds horrible - just my current thoughts - I do not like them one bit)
she repeatedly beat into my head that this didn't happen over night so i shouldn't expect her to be "fixed" over night. Why doesn't it work the other way around?? I didn't make her feel like she doesn't love me anymore over night, why keep taking steps towards negative outcomes because things aren't changing over night??
my head is spinning!!!!!!
sorry for so many posts....just looking for support.
I am currently watching michele's videos on youtube. it's actually making me feel a lot better at the moment.
not sure if anyone is even reading right now, but as a self therapy I typed up a "script" (if you will) . it makes me feel better but I know it is pointless to try to reason with a spouse that wants out. And that is why she will probably never see it or even know about it. I'm hoping for the best, that's all I can do.
here is what I typed....
"first a couple of questions.....
1. What exactly do you want our marriage to be?
2. What makes us not worth fighting for?
3. Why do we keep taking steps that are not constructive?
I understand that you didn't get to the way you feel over night.it took time to build this wall and when it got high enough that you could not see over it, all you can see is the other side (separation / divorce) as your way out. I don’t expect you to change your mind over night, and in return I am asking you don’t expect me to change overnight. You have made your point; you have stood up for yourself and made me see that you do not want to be treated as you were in the past. I get it!!!! I’m sorry it took us getting to this point for me to see the true value in our marriage. You obviously know what you want from a relationship from this point forward. Allow me to learn and work with you to build the marriage that we both want.
We need to acknowledge what we want from each other and then act in order to provide that. It won’t be easy, it won’t be instant but it WILL be worth it in the end. give us time, we can do it.
I cannot change the past, I cannot take back the things I’ve done. From this day, I can be a better husband and father.
Marriage is not easy, but we have a great opportunity here and I am asking for us to take advantage of it so that we can build the marriage that we both want."
no action tonight eh? ya know, I've been reading other threads and many of them keep talking about fixing themselves so even if their wife doesn't come back, they can take what they have learned to the next marriage.
I can't even fathom the idea of even dating anyone let alone a relationship even remotely close to marriage. I know it's wrong, but I am sometimes telling myself that if my wife leaves and we get divorced that I'm not sure I will ever be able to open up my heart again.
anyway, I've finally convinced myself to be positive and up beat tonight. i felt myself falling back into the circle I had last night....and it scared me! I just started watching micheles videos on youtube and it DEFINITELY helped.
I'm still worried about how my wife is going to handle the next session because I KNOW the counselor is going to ask her if she has made a decision. it's going to get quite emotional. I'm just reminding myself of the positives.............
1. I have managed to not even bring up our relationship for the past two weeks,
2. I only broke down and cried once when she was home over the past few weeks
3. have not lost my temper at all or pushed her in any way (intentionally).
4. we worked together on some remodeling without conflict,
5. and she is still living at home.
I feel pretty accomplished as slight as it may be. in the beginning i did EVERYTHING wrong. I just hope it's not too late (sound like a broken record yet?)
Again, I did not text my wife before coming home from work. Had a pretty positive attitude on the way home. Came in the house and the wife was right there pretty much ready to leave and in a surprisingly good mood? She instantly said "good morning" with a smile. Weird ...but I'll take it. She already had packed my daughters lunch (I usually do it)
So I asked how my daughter was for the night And my wife said she never heard a peep. She actually got some sleep. Then she jokingly talked about the cats waking her up two minutes before her alarm went off. She then said " ok, I have to go. Sleep good and see you later". As she was walking out I noticed her one eye was puffy and asked if it was ok. She said it feels fine, just puffy ....then made fun of how she looks with it. Then I cracked a joke about her coworkers thinking I hit her. She laughed about it and agreed. If told her I would prob have to work fir night so she will need a sitter if she was still planning to go with her friends. Told her unless she can be home by 1030 pm. But I made sure she knew I wasn't putting a time limit on her night , just had to be to work on time.
Anyway, not sure why she wAs chipper....but it felt kinda nice.
Hey lost, some of us are following your thread. Hard to keep up with the volume you're posting. I used to be pretty manic too, I definitely see how emotional this is just based on the amount you're writing. Sorry this is so tough.
In regards to your self therapy letter, I wrote one as well. What's even more important is that you answer this question: WHY CAN'T YOU SHARE THAT WITH HER? Seriously, please answer that. It is crucial that you do.
Beyond that, you need to detach. Right now her moods are impacting your moods. That's not easy and requires some serious growth, change, and patience. But it must happen as right now you're absolutely attached and as a result you're going through some overwhelmingly turbulent emotional waters.
Proud you are still being disciplined, please reply to this. As you make it easier for yourself you will only see further growth and less pain.
Isn't that letter considered "pursing" or "begging"? I assume that it would just push her further away. Maybe it would be something to bring out at next counseling session?
Sorry for the volume, I work all night and have way too much time on my hands .
I admit, detaching is very hard for me. I am working on it though......not easy for me
No! Don't share that letter! My apologies for not being clear. The question is, please elaborate on why it's a bad idea. You're right, it's pursuing. But there's more to it than that. Please think about it and see what you can come up with. Hint- your W is in a totally different state of mind than you are, and a totally different person than who you've always thought she was during your R. This exercise is needed so you can start to understand who she is now, how she feels, and how she will perceive these types of actions. It's one thing to know not to send it, but getting the 'why' behind it is invaluable!
Keep going!!! You can do this!
I was a bit confused at first lol. Right now she is nearly convinced that the grass is greener on the other side. The letter would make her feel as everything she is doing is wrong and push her further away. Maybe make her feel like I was trying to be controlling?
This isn't easy for me....
Zues...I haven't commented on your threads, but I've read them. Man, you have got to be one of the biggest turnarounds, attitude and perspective-wise, on these boards.
lostluv: "I know it's wrong, but I am sometimes telling myself that if my wife leaves and we get divorced that I'm not sure I will ever be able to open up my heart again."
Heh. I'm a fairly devout Christian. I figure I could do something convenient, easy. I am a reasonably attractive, apparently successful guy. But a real relationship with someone ELSE(which is pretty much required!) sounds like the last thing in the world that I would want.
Try to push those thoughts away for now. If that moment ever comes, your DB journey will have prepared you.
I am definitely affected by HER mood. I'm sure that is normal at this point, and I am trying to work on it. it's hard. tomorrow's session will be a good thing. I know she isn't going to say she loves me or even admit that she wants to work things out. it will either be to confirm that things have not changed and possible stabilized, OR ..... that she wants to separate. I'm hoping at least for the stabilization.
she is going out with her friend tomorrow. I hope she has fun, but i cannot lie....I still have thoughts about her cheating while she is out, or at least meeting someone new. but, I hope she does have fun....my feelings set aside. I do still worry because I know there will be drinking and they are driving an hour to go to a haunted house AFTER happy hour. like I said, part of me is glad that she is going out and having fun with friends, but part of me is saying she should be a bit more responsible because she is a wife & a mother. not that wives or mothers shouldn't have fun, just shouldn't act single. (her friend is "engaged" but they are having major issues as well)
i'm really trying to be patient.
Lost ... wow .. ok .. took me a bit to read all your sitch.
You really need to detach ... and as I type that I laugh becuase I suck at it too. Thing is, and I want you to brace for the 2x4 because the things that will help you will hurt to hear. I know this .. I need the smacking around in my sitch too. I see alot of yours in what I did wrong ... difference ... you started DBing way sooner ... I only started a couple months ago .. and am almost at the 1 year point of my separation. Truth is ... I am FAR better off right now .. than I was before DB
Ok ... here it comes. As I have become a broken record .. you need the Trifecta in your toolbox, GAL/PMA/180.... You have to man up, DETACH, you are letting her ups and downs control your moods, she will not respect this of you, you are a puppet to her at the moment. I see you actually working on the PMA, thats good ... Let us help you .. we are all here and have been at various stages only to revisit them again ... I actually believe I could read my own sitch over and give great advice at certain points ... and do .. just to get myself back where I need to be.
What are the 180's you need ... giving her space? What else ... do some new things .. FOR YOU. Get out and DO SOMETHING .. GAL man ... ya have to , you need to find that guy who you really are because you have basically admitted you lost that and became less of Lostluv and more of just a married guy.
Stop texting her
Dont pursue
REALLY focus on leaving first/ending the convo first
Be happy ... make her wonder
Try to be mysterious (When I do this .. instant feedback)
I am no vet, nor expert ... like you I wanted nothing to do with my marriage being over, thought I would die honestly... in a way I did... the old me id dead, he really is .. the new me is still being born, and I am not sure where that will lead me, but I know because of this site, God, and my journey ... I will survive this and be stronger for it.
Now there are some days I want to be that old person and start my pity party ... its all part of the process.
Have you thought about an IC>? I never thought I would .. but it helps ... she taught me my self esteem was shot ... I have a feeling you might have the same issue ... work on that!
Bottom line ... Focus on YOU , not her or what she is doing .. YOU. Thats all you have control over at this point.
should I give the wife ANY compliments on how she looks ? or is that detrimental to the detaching phase?
divorce remedy arrived today, will be reading that over the next few days. already did divorce busting
I just need to comprehend it better
should I even tell her that I'm glad she is getting out and having fun when she is leaving friday?
should I give the wife ANY compliments on how she looks ? or is that detrimental to the detaching phase?
divorce remedy arrived today, will be reading that over the next few days. already did divorce busting
I just need to comprehend it better
Have you read 5LL ... another helpful tool
Another one for you ... No More Mr Nice Guy
Can you pull it off with out it looking like pursuit? I know I have done it dropping off S in the morning as an exit strategy ... "You look nice , have a nice day" and make my way out without saying another word.
I have read 5LL and took the test trying to think of her. Acts of kindness is the main and words of affirmation is a very close second. (Assuming what I know about her....but she is completely different now)
I can pull it off without sounding needy I think.
Basically thought of doing it the same way u did. She always looks great when she goes out....it's hard not to gawk every day I'm reminded how beautiful I think she is as soon as I see her. But I don't tell her every day like I used to ......
Wow shk, that is quite a compliment. I appreciate that. I am not getting cocky, I have a lot more growth ahead. But I am recognizing some growth and it feels good to know its visible to others as well.
As for future Rs, it's ok to feel that way. First off, being a little jaded and cynical is easy, like when a woman smiles at you and you think 'I know where that leads, stay away!' But its not a spot to live. It's just a sign you have more growth ahead. Once you truly understand you STBX's feelings and failings you'll find it's easier to be compassionate and accepting rather than hurt and victimized.
And, funny thing- ill post on my sitch later, but there is a chance I may have to take the kids at some point and be a full time single dad. That would mean working all during the week, and having the kids every minute I'm not at work. Wouldn't leave much time for dating or hobbies! In fact, being a dad might be the only thing I'd be doing for 15 years. That would jus end up being the bulk of my life.
That's not what I wanted. I wanted a M. But that's what I may get. And if it is...ill find joy in it. Who says I have to be married to enjoy life? Again, no sour grapes here, I am standing by my M to the end. But it would be ungrateful for me not to enjoy what God has given me simply because my W wanted out. The human spirit is extremely resilient if we let ourselves be open to the joy all around us.
Keep at it. I can feel you're early on your journey. I am too in many ways. It's long, doesn't always lead where we want it, and will hurt a lot at times. You could say the same things about life itself. Enjoy what you have now, keep growing and stay true to your core values, and have faith that joy will come if you make righteous decisions and can let to a little. March on!!!
Her mood effects me I admit, but the past couple weeks I've been pretty good at hiding that from her with the "as if" attitude. My GAL is difficult since we work opposite shifts and babysitter is scarce. I have started karate classes two nights a week and I still work out several times a week. I used to play music and ride motorcycles a lot but have sold all that stuff. I sold my corvette a couple months ago and used the cash to pay off some other bills. No money for my old hobbies without stressing the wife about financial stuff. Weekends are hard with remodeling that needs done ant again....babysitter if wife is doing something.
A lot is riding on session tomorrow. I know it shouldn't, but that's where we will discuss the relationship and see if things I've been doing the past couple weeks are a step forward. ....I feel things have some what stabilize but it's better to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak
tonight's update :
today was my wife's aerobics class. When I got up from sleeping (4:15 pm) I simply said "good morning" and went to make coffee. as soon as I get up, my daughter always gets excited and runs right to me and wants to hang out with me....even if she is sitting on my wife's lap reading. anyway, I played with my daughter and read her some books for a little bit as my wife and I didn't really chat too much other than about the weather (she spoke first) and she informed me that she DID get a babysitter and she would be at our house around 10pm before I leave for work. I simply said "ok, cool." she then said that she was going to meet her friend (female co-worker that is going with her to haunted house) at buffalo wild wings @ 6pm first. I asked if her friend was driving as usual. she said they were both going to drive in case she had to leave earlier if her friend wanted to stay. I agreed that it sometimes takes a long time to get in and I heard that it's pretty busy and you need to make sure you are there in plenty of time to get tickets. she agreed that was the plan. it was a pleasant conversation and I did not pry for any details otherwise.
my daughter went to play in her room and my wife was fixing herself something to eat, so I changed clothes and told my wife I was going to workout for a while before she left.
unfortunately, I lost track of time and my wife came into the basement gym and was a little irritated @ 630 and said "my class starts at 645, I need to go!" I smiled and said "wow, didn't realize it was so late. sorry for not noticing. you better get going!"
she was still irritated, but all part of life.....
when she came home, she was in a surprisingly better mood. I just said hi and she told me a little about how class was and that she was going to be sore. she said she did a total of 80 push ups and 46 of them were REGULAR style (not on knees for women). I said "wow, that's awesome! great job. think you'll be sore tomorrow?" she laughed and said "oh yeah"
she went to shower and I put my daughter to bed. the rest of the evening was pretty quiet.
I REALLY wanted to continue reading Divorce Remedy, but I don't want to do it when she is there. so, for now i will have to read when she is not home or at work.
when she went to bed, she got up and went to the kitchen to put her dish(es) in the sink and goto bathroom. she could have just said she was going to bed and went upstairs without actually looking at me (she has done that several times recently), but she actually came back into the room far enough that she had to turn around and face me and said "i'm going to bed now, good night. Hope your night goes well at work". I simply smiled and said "good night, sleep good"
like I said earlier, not a major win, but any day that is without major conflict ....is a good day.
baby steps.
after she went to bed, i grabbed my book and started reading.
Positive attitude:
I can do this....it's going to be hard, it's going to take a while, but I can do this. I shouldn't dread tomorrow, maybe she will agree that things are "stable" and we will continue how we are in the moment...which will buy me time...TIME is my friend...as long as she is living here, it will be easier for her to see the changes. I'm further ahead than some other guys on the board and I need to take advantage of that.
negative thoughts:
maybe she is just being nice so when she drops the bomb tomorrow I won't be expecting it.... if she wants to separate, then she had better find a place to live....she is probably going to hook up with some guy when she goes out.....she isn't "herself" and she is capable of so many things right now that I never thought she would ever do....that sux and scares me......hey wait!!!! you stupid A$$, you can't control her....go back to your positive thoughts.
back to positive:
if she wants to separate, just tell her you understand how she feels and even though you do not want that in any way, she needs to do what SHE feels she needs to do. she will have to find out the hard way that the grass on the other side is greener because it is fertilized with bu11 5h!t. when she gets ready to leave friday, just smile and say "wow, you look great. have a fun time!"
yeah, sometimes my rollercoaster is from minute to minute......
lostluv...your roller coaster is a wild one, but the ride is starting to smooth out. Have a great 3rd shift! (Haven't done that since my Army days.)
Thanks for posting on my thread. I added a post. Check it out.
As big strong confident men its amazing how much power we give to the woman in our lives. We sometimes don't even realize it but just assume they know best about family, house, etc. when the day comes where we define out identity, self worth, and our own happiness by their opinion of us...that's just not good. That's codependency to the core. Problem is no one will ever love us enough to fill a bottomless hole, and we can't be true to ourselves if we're walking on eggshells trying to earn the approval of others.
This whole good day/bad day stuff is no good. Sorry bro, I have a feeling it's about to get rockier. I don't see your W suddenly recommitting to the M. Not a bet, just have a feeling she's going to go much further before she thinks about returning. I think this relationship is gone, and even if there is chance for a new one it will be long down the road and only if you're a different person. The 'you' you feel like today will lose her and there's no getting around that grief. I hope I'm wrong and she tells oh at counseling that she can make some adjustments and work through this, but her roller coaster, social engagements, and actions towards you tell me she's checked out to a large degree. I hope this comes out clearly soon because I know first hand nothing is worse than Wondering what she'll do. Want you to truly let it go and just run your life with pride and virtue.
"I don't see your W suddenly recommitting to the M. Not a bet, just have a feeling she's going to go much further before she thinks about returning. I think this relationship is gone, and even if there is chance for a new one it will be long down the road and only if you're a different person"
I don't see her suddenly committing either, I would not want her to (you know what I mean) because I don't want to go through any of this again. I'm sure she will probably go further and that's the part that hurts. I'm REALLY hoping we can remain living together while we "work" on things....or at least stabilize. it crushes me to even think about her not living here....mostly because of my daughter. I do not want to put her through that if we don't HAVE to. right now, i don't see the reason to. she has said that she doesn't want to be divorced (a month or so ago) and I'm hoping she means that.
as for this relationship being over....at first I took that very offensively to be honest, but as I started to think about it....I'm glad "this" (meaning the old) relationship is over .... I don't want us to be the way we used to be if it wasn't what we wanted or we weren't happy. I told her in our last session "I don't want our relationship back, i want us to have a better one with each other using the knowledge we have now" **or something real similar**
she told me in June that she was ready to check out, and that's when all of this started coming out.
the suspense is definitely bothersome!!! However, at this point I THINK part of me would rather hear "I don't know what I want yet" than "it's over, i want out", yet part of me may want to hear the later. I'm extremely scared about the later....because I feel like it would trigger my cold/bitter side and that alone makes me want to start crying (even as I'm typing now). I truly love her with all my heart and know that somewhere deep inside of her is a glimmer of hope. I just need to quit pushing her away so she can relax and re-discover it.
Typically I'm the first one to cry in counseling. we have frequently talked about the issues that led up and how my wife has serious forgiveness issues and is holding onto resentment. the counselor was originally working on that with my wife and basically said at some point she will have to forgive me (but not forget) in order to start working on us. one session the counselor asked her in the beginning if she was still mad and if her heart was softening....my wife snapped pretty hard at the counselor and told her she is tired of having her feelings minimized and feeling put down. the counselor explained that it was no way intentional and she apologized and said she would never intentionally make her feel belittled .
anyways, the next session (our last one) is when I suggested that rather than a weekly session, we try bi-weekly because i wanted to reduce the pressure on my wife. I think it surprised the wife a bit, but I think it also gave soem slight relief. not sure if that would have been considered a 180, but for that whole session I pretty much validated my wife's feelings and tried to take the focus off of HER.
I'm really trying to GAL but working 3rd shift is a bit harder. i'm somewhat scared to do TOO much away from home because one of my wife's original complaints was I'm not there for her enough, I didn't support her, she felt like a single parent, etc.
i can definitely sympathize with the juggling act of working third shift and trying to GAL. i also understand the whole "you weren't there for me and the family". it's quite a balancing act to DB and the 180 of being there for the family. praying for you bro. in some respects, the lag (time between bomb drop and action) is the toughest. although knowing that the executioner's axe is coming down isn't a cake walk either.
so I'm reading DR and just finished the 4th chapter. I wrote down three fairly simple, short term goals and then the "signs" that would show there was progress..... then I dtermined the best time to approach my wife to "ask" for the goals. I was feeling pretty confident about where this was going. then I got to the part that said, now don't ask. your relationship isn't ready. so I was like WTF? and the next sentence basically said that I was probably wondering why I was told to do all that if I wasn't going to use it ..... it's like the book is reading my mind hahaha
on a side note, I'm looking at some of the timelines on people's signatures and see that i have a very youn gmarriage (4 yrs) and most of your guys situations happened relatively quickly from the first day until papers were filed or they were physically separated. that was giving me some slight hope thinking that I may be slightly ahead of the game ..... and then I read Bravo61's sig.... the bomb day is very close to mine and papers were delivered just last week. ugh.
but I'm not letting that stop my positive thinking yet!!!! she has not filed, and I do not believe she has seen a lawyer, let alone talked to one. She has yet to "decide" what she "wants".
now I'm thinking on here again, but it's better than telling my wife the following:
i'm really hoping tomorrow she at LEAST agrees to avoid separation right now. worst case, i can get yet another hobby or do other things in the evenings if she wants more time to herself....or I can just spend most of my time in the basement working out, online, or playing music. and if I want to play with my daughter, i can let her ride her bike around in the basement or help her practice her "gymnastics" in the basement on my mats. i'm determined to make it and to do it by avoiding separation. I know most of you have done the separation, but I do not feel we could reconcile after an extended separation. Maybe I will change my thought, but right now I feel the only reason she would have to be completely separated is to see other men or to try to meet someone new and justify it's "ok" because we are "separated".
i'm sure you have all been there, and hoped for the same. maybe I'm just still delusional
I'm trying to hold on to hope here ......
ok, i'm still reading in between working (shhh, don't tell my boss)
anyway, instead of dreading the outcome of our next session, i've decided to use the "act as if" technique as used in chapter six when michele refers to her plane ride home "knowing" that her husband is going to be grumpy.
Can't hurt to try. because if I go into our session acting depressed, down, anxious, and miserable..... even if she was considering saying somehting positive, I may trigger her into being pushed away.
so I guess that sort of leads me to the next idea as well, "try something different" ....
by now you are probably thinking * great, he is going to give us a play by play while reading this book *
not really, I'm just trying to log my thoughts, idea's and progress on this board to maintain my positive attitude.
it's all therapeutic right?
Lost, this is very tough. I can see how much it hurts and how scary it is. I do believe you are doing your best. But you HAVE to make some changes here. You are the opposite of detached. You are holding on so tight it is painful. Here's the thin about DBing...it is for YOU. It is NOT about controlling her. I know you're thinking, "I thought the point of DB was to salvage the M!'
I don't feel that way anymore. Ill be the first to admit I was controlling in my M, couldn't stand the thought of life without her, and when i realized i couldnt control her directly anymore i read DB/DR trying to find a way to control her ndirectly through my behavior. That's just not going to work.
As long as you NEED the R to work out you ate not in a good spot. Why?
-you will automatically fixate on YOUR needs and pain, and automatically minimize/dismiss/misunderstand your Ws needs and pain.
-you wont grow as a person. This is because you will avoid taking accountability for your own behavior that drive her away.
-you will be weak and needy. You can act as if and I'm glad you are, but the reality is clear. You have no idea how much comes through in body language, instant reactions, etc.
-it will HURT more
I've read all your posts. You really aren't in the right ball park as to understanding your Ws feelings. Read my thread. My W said she was 'checked out' as well. What followed was a four month alcohol binge, several affairs, and a suicide attempt. God knows I don't want that for her or you, but the fact you still want to say 'sorry, we can work on this honey' just shows you don't understand he magnitude of what you're up against.
Bottom line, you need to make some big personal changes in your heart and attitude. Detach and let it go. Don't kill someone you used to love (you can't love her now because you don't even know her, she is NOT who you think she is, qui trying to force her to be). Let her find out who she is. You find out who you are without her and work on making that person strong, healthy, etc. you can do that. All this about "I don't know if I could forgive separation" is more control. You may feel it is true, but that just shows how controlling/needy/dependent you are. Learn to take care of yourself.
So specifically, let go, stop controlling. In your posts focus on talking about any insights you had on how you messed up, how that made her feel, and how you're using those lessons to make 180s for YOU to be a better man in your next R. Don't make changes just for her, they won't stick. And don't think it gives you the right to expect her to forgive you. Please read my post. There's one by 25 where she copy/pasted a quote from a WAW about why she didn't accept her Hs changes. Please read it. It's obvious to me you were very controlling and your growth at this point is still trying more of the same. Better let go before you get hurt worse and crush any chance left. You can't force her back, but you can force her away.
just purchased "no more mr. nice guy" as well. it has been recommended in my thread as well as many other threads and I have always been "the nice guy" ..... can't hurt.
is it considered a 180 that I've read several books in the past couple months when I only ever completed two books cover to cover in my first 40 years? or does it make me pathetic?
books I've read so far:
1. love busters
2. his needs, her needs
3. the 5 love languages
4. Divorce busting
5. divorce remedy (reading now)
6. give and take
7. fall in love, stay in love (half way done)
8. Half water - science fiction that my friend wrote (on amazon)
9. Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia of bodybuilding (half way - rest is pretty much reference material)
10. my wife doesn't love me anymore
dang, I didn't realize I read that many !!
you would think I would have the knowledge of an expert about relationships.....yet mine is not good.....YET!!!!
Zues....I know it sounds harsh, but thanks for taking away all of my PMA
I'm working on the detaching. I admit is is very hard for me. i'm doing MUCH better now than I was ....and it will get better. I can't do it over night. a lot of what I type here never makes it to my wife. i come here to vent and release so I don't do anything stupid. I don't feel I'm controlling her, i definitely tried in the beginning and it majorly backfired.
i did EVERYTHING wrong in the beginning ...which is pretty normal. I have been making changes...slowly but surely.
Now you're using controlling techniques on me. You're acting hurt and blaming it me to try control my behavior and that of others to steer us towards what you want. Only you control your PMA.
If you want everyone to tell you great job for doing your best that's fine. Just ask us to. When your divorced just reread our cheer leading, I'm sure it will make you feel better.
Why am I so sure? If you read both my threads you'll see I did/said he same things. I was used to acting sad/depressed when hurt to manipulate others. I saw that in my posts. I owned it. Not only am I (gradually) becoming less controlling, but I AM NO LONGER DEPRESSED. The only reason I hurt so much because I had learned it was a way to get what I wanted. Stop the controlling behavior, stop the hurting, suddenly I felt better.
My intensions were not to control you. I'm not acting hurt to blame you. I was just saying my positive attitude was being brought down by your negative response. I'm not the best at communicating / interpreting so maybe I misunderstood ? I just felt like I was being told that a divorce is inevitable so I might as well just face it and accept it.
I am not acting sad and hurt to manipulate others. I am working on me, and trying to accept things as they are. Detaching without feeling like I've given up is very hard.....we all know that. I've owned what I've done but I can't change the past. I can only move forward from here.
I, simply trying to avoid separation unless it is absolutely necessary. Like I said before, if she decides she still wants to be separated we will deal with it. I just feel like I would be a door mat if I just left. She has never feared me and I have never abused her in any way. I did take her for granted and I have openly admitted that. I have no doubts she would make it on her own. She is a very intelligent woman with masters degree in her field and a decent a career. She is an amazing mother as well.
If worst case happens, I have no doubts I would make it on my own and be fine....but opening my heart would be a near impossible challenge.
I didn't mean I wouldn't forgive a separation, I meant I don't think I could forgive one if it was just to see other people, Maybe there is someone else right now.....maybe not. Yes I consider the possibilities, but that is normal given the situation.
Right now I have the gift of time and I intend on using it. I'm not holding anywhere near as tight as I was for the first couple months.
I cannot control her, I get that. I don't think I'm trying to. I am controlling me and how I act around her. I am changing to prepare myself but absolutely am hoping for a better outcome than worst case.
I apologies for any misunderstanding.
so tonight's session started with counselor asking how things were. my wife instantly focused on the night two weeks ago that I cried and she got mad. she never brought it back up but she said that I've just been acting like everything is fine....and things are NOT fine. that's the only thing she had. not sure if I should take that as SHE NOTICED a change? obviously she did but it seems to have backfired??
basically all came down to making it understood that I do not want it to end, and she said she is ready to be done but don't want to hurt me. she said she doesn't know how to "fix" the way she feels.
basically our "assignment" is to go with the thought for the next two weeks (until our next appointment - which I left up to her if she wanted) that it's a strong possibility that the marriage is done. counselor feels that before anything, my wife needs to feel "safe" emotionally so we need to entertain the idea that it is "safe" to allow my wife to feel it's done. but she insisted that any decision is NOT URGENT. We have time, just work on making each other feel safe and know each will be ok without the other if it comes to that. Then we will go from there.
I feel empty and cold. I do want to make my wife feel safe, and I told her in the session that this is not at all what I want, but I will not stand in her way if this is what she truly wants.
how to act as if it is done is beyond me. I am numb and feel like giving up.
Hey lost, sorry to hear that. We do all support you for sure.
Feelings aside...
Feelings aside, when you look back at your road in a few years, wherever you are, how long would you want to say you stood by her? An hour? Week? Month? 6 months? Or until it was clear she had healed and moved on with her life as her new self?
Feelings aside, if (heaven forbid) something happened to her, what would you do with your life?
Feelings aside, what changes do you feel you want to work on for yourself so you are healthier on your own?
The reason these questions are so important are that they make you FEEL better sooner for two reasons:
1) you will grow into a stronger person, someone who can accept what life brings you, and is strong enough to handle their sitch without missing out in the joy in their life. This is not only completely positive, it is the only person she could get miss or make a R work with down the road.
2) focusing on you empowers you because you are in complete control. Focusing on her does the opposite because you have no control.
Remember one thing- separation and time for personal growth are REQUIRED for both of you. Even if she said she wanted to work on the M 6-12 months apart might've been the only way for it to have a chance. My suggestion is to act 'as if' she told you she is open to possible R down the road but wants 6 months to work on herself and have you do the same, then see where you're at from there. Because if she said that you'd do the SAME THING. Bottom line, make your 6 months count and whatever she does you'll be better. And she will never say hat but trust me, she's watching you closely as well.
I know it's different when you see her start to pursue other men, etc. if that's a deal breaker that's yours to decide. For most of us on the board we recognize that as a short term coping mechanism by a depressed person no more personal than drinking, shopping too much, or going to the casino. Would you give up if she was doing that? I know for me I feel sad that my spouse is in that much pain and will stand by until I know she's not going to recognize and address it.
My vote is that you set the example. Show her the character you wish she had. Show her how to grow in ways you wish she would. If you can't do what you expect her to do that's not fair. And if you do, like I said, you'll be better off no matter what.
Sorry it's a tough day. I just want you to grow from it. You've paid the price in pain for your mistakes. I don't want them to be repeated because giving up is easier than standing tall in the short term.
appreciate that zues.
I actually went through this quite a few years back. long story short, married at a very young age to a girl I got pregnant (tried doing right thing for wrong reason)...she was EVIL!!! ended up cheating, getting pregnant and living with a guy as we were splitting up. then she was with a few other guys and had two other kids (different fathers) and then married again, divorced and living with many different men. my son came to live with me when he was 9 til he went to the army.
anyway....a short while after my divorce, I dated a woman and I was heavy into it with my heart .... a girl from highschool. that was a heart breaking experience. it took me 11 years to open my heart again, and that was to my current wife. we both had the same morals, outlooks, everything....even the same outlook at marriage. we used to joke about people getting married saying it should be "to have and to hold til death do us part ...or until we don't want to be together aymore" ....that was only a year ago. even a year ago she used to tell me how grateful she was and how much she loved me...that's why I was so thrown off by all of this.
I know how I am with a broken heart and I do NOT want to go through it again. I know I'm attractive, smart, funny, great work ethic and a loving father but at this point I don't feel I could ever love another woman.
anyway, I had a back slide tonight.....we talked a little bit and I tried to validate her feelings and told her I understand that she feels she can be done and asked her how she wanted to proceed...she said she don't know. I just told her that it's ok for her to feel the way she does and I understand and as much as I do NOT want a divorce and that doesn't have to be our ONLY option, I am not going to hold her back if that's what she truly wants or needs to be happy. she just got mad and said I don't even listen. then I repeated back to her in my own words how she felt and she agreed....wtf?
basically ended the night with telling her I love her no matter what and kissed her on the forehead and said goodbye as I got ready for work.
deep inside I hope she changes her mind, but reality tells me she won't . she is stubborn (polish / russian LOL)
where to go from here?
should I put together something splitting up the bills and assets for her to review?
we make about the same money, we both have student loans (hers are MUCH more than mine), we only have one car payment (hers) and the house payment. I would like to keep the house becuase I've put so much blood and sweat into it already....and JUST IN CASE she changed her mind ....also, it's a familiar place for my daughter.
she always used to cringe about people getting nasty in a divorce and taking each other for everything and she used to say that if for some reason that ever happened she hopes we wouldn't come to that.....but ya know....she changed her mind about everything else!!!
anyway....yeah...going to be a rough night at work, and a very rough road ahead. physically and financially I'm sure I will be fine, but the emotional part may kill me this time.
oh, another part of the backslide.....I copied and pasted the article about the walk away wife syndrome and emailed it to her. I'm sure that is going to be devastating to any chance i have....
I cut out the last paragraph about coming to the website and the intro paragraph.
That sounds like a serious oops. Not at all like "Acting as if" it's done per the counselor's recommendation.
(2x4 coming) I don't want to be an @$$...but are you TRYING to harpoon yourself?
I was going to recommend...go ahead and make the division of assets plan. Put on some pressure. But not now. Additional confusion is exactly what this relationship does not need.
i don't know how to ACT as if we are DONE if nothing changes. I'm tryng to think of what I should do and am just spinning inside.....dazed....confused. (even though I saw it coming)
she is absolutely convinced that she is done and her feelings won't change. I was convinced that there was a chance. looks like she wins....harpoon or no harpoon. I do not have a choice in the matter because I do not control her. I do not want to be the one to file, I do not want to be the one to move out.
the most unfortunate part is my daughter!!!!!! I'm SO f'ing bitter and mad that my daughter is going to have to go through this. she is such a happy and content little angel. divorce is so devastating to children. and it DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's going to be an EXTREME struggle for me to act like i'm not completely crushed.
sorry to rant and vent, just doing therapy.......
I actually wanted to do the email as therapy as I saw suggested "just type it up but don't send it, save it as a draft and just re-read it a couple times"..... yeah....that didn't work.
how do I not give up now.....definitely feeling hopeless
Very tough night last nigh. Had to leave work early because I lost it.....Couldn't keep from crying in my office. Cried the whole 20 minute drive home and for about an hour at home. Luckily was all dried up by the time my wife got up.
She looked ROUGH. eyes were extremely puffy. Not much said before she left for work. I took my daughter to babysitter then came home and had a few bv & coke ....but still had trouble sleeping.
Got up and had some coffee. My wife informed me that she read the article I sent her. She was fairly talkative (I let her initiate other than "good morning"
She didn't do much to get ready for her "girls night".....still looked kinda rough. She informed me of their plan change of plans as to were they were meeting up. Weird. I simply told her to have fun.
I made a list of assets and bills but haven't approached her with it yet. I'm torn between asking to keep the house and I will assume the payment or selling it and finding a place to rent. I'm assuming SHE will want to keep the house. Guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
Slow down, man.
Best thing I can offer you for now is BE STILL. I know you're not a Godly man, but you are going to have to figure out some sort of higher power and surrender to it. Be still, and stop trying to "manage" and "control" your life. That's where the breakdown is happening. Let things unfold on their own, especially now.
Keep a PMA as best you can, and if you can't do it around her, fake it. My mental state sux right now too, but I don't show that to her.
Keep journaling.
I'm struggling a little bit right now. I'm working on detaching and my wife is out w girls. They are driving an hour away (after happy hr) for a haunted house....which I'm sure they will drink more after. I will be at work and babysitter will be here.
I'd really like to know that my wife makes it home safe, but I don't know how to ask her without her thinking I'm just trying to keep tabs. We have always been considerate that way but things have changed.
Should I just tell her I am still concerned with her safety and would appreciate knowing she gets home safely?
It's not me being controlling, I'm legitimately concerned
Jefe....thanks for the support
But was this a typo?"figure out some sort of higher power and surrender to it. Be still, and stop trying to "manage" and "control" your life."Should LIFE be WIFE?
My wife moved out 2.5 months ago, I worry like hell about her. I quit asking where she is/was and what shes doing the day I found this place.
My answer is leave it. You must find your own truth.
I'm just starting " no more mister nice guy"
Maybe that will help with my pma and detachment.
Right now I know I could detach but it wouldn't be"lovingly" the only way I know is cold and bitter. ...I don't want that for my wife.
I'm tired and emotionally drained. I started getting frustrated w my daughter at bed time (she's almost 3) and I had to get very stern. Normally not an issue but because I'm so emotional right now, I felt SO bad and I broke down crying right on the spot. She stopped acting up instantly and hugged me and said "it's ok daddy, don't cry. I love you" as she patted me on the back and kissed my cheek.
I feel like such a terrible person for letting her see me like that.
Jefe....thanks for the support
But was this a typo?"figure out some sort of higher power and surrender to it. Be still, and stop trying to "manage" and "control" your life."Should LIFE be WIFE?
No typo, often our problems can be the result of self will run amuck. Stop trying to manage your life and just be still in the moment, whatever that looks like for you.
It's my number one problem, the greatest cause of all my marital problems. My self will and my attempt to control my life and that of my wife. And for her it's the same. Seriously, stop trying to fix it and just be still for a minute.
I had a meltdown holding D2 about a month after BD. Made D2 cry hysterically because she didn't know what was wrong with me and was scared. But these little ones get over it quickly! So don't fret. The hysterics will still come to you from time to time (less and less frequently, I promise), though, so you need a plan. As long as your D3 is safe alone for 30 seconds wherever you are, if you feel that coming on, just run to a different room, shut the door, bawl your eyes out, get it over with, wipe off your face, take a deep breath, and go back to her.
Building on what Jefe said, think of you as a rock and your emotions as a stream flowing over the rock. The emotions are just flowing over you, but YOU are unchanged. You are still a rock. I heard that from someone here when I first signed up and it has helped me a couple of times.
Also, have you seen people here talking about the Stockdale Paradox? Apply it to your sitch. It is very powerful. Look it up, but basically it's two components: Forcd yourself to be relentlessly positive while also being 100% aware of the reality of your situation. Face the gravest details of your reality - say them out loud, write them down and read them. It HURTS to admit the worst, but give it a little time and those facts will have less and less effect on you and your emotions. I promise.
I don't know how to just sit still. I'm having a fit at the moment trying to calm myself.
my wife is out with her girlfriends (from work) and is posting pics of them having fun and their location...that's fine. but her friends are posting the pics on her line of all of them, with their boyfriends and an extra guy. she told me it was "girls night out" and I was completely fine with that..... but to see the pics is a dagger in the heart, repeatedly stabbing with a twisting motion while dumping salt on it.
WTF....
i'm so p'd right now. i want to give up on EVERYTHING, tell her to move the F out. i'm SO angry right now. I want to react so bad but I can't!!!! that's probably what she wants!
i need some serious help
Stop stop STOP checking her FB. Id recommend getting off FB altogether for now, but if you must be on there, at least "ignore" her feed so you're not subjected to it. Same idea for Instagram, Twitter, whatever. Don't check them, period.
What good can come from it? What are you hoping for, her to publicly announce that she loves you again? And you're not going to find direct evidence that she's running around on you, either, unless she's really dumb. You're just going to get a bunch of mundane posts and pictures like that (I'm sure nothing is going on and she's just enjoying an escape from the misery of the sitch), and you'll end up mind reading.
If you can't sit still, then look up a fitness routine on YouTube RIGHT NOW and do it. Something cardio, high-intensity. I know you can't go anywhere because you have D3
Hang in there, lovelost. You have to make detach your absolute #1 priority. I was right where you are about 3 months ago. Checking her FB, text bills, installed s tracking app on her phone, I even tried to spy on one of her outings (unsuccesfully). It was all stupid and pointless and only caused me more heartache. I know why you are doing it - because it's all you can think about. You need to stop thinking about her, but the thoughts won't slow down while you are actively snooping.
What part of your sitch has you most anxious? Fear of losing W, living a future without her? Fear for D3's development? Fear she is having an A or looking for an OM?
I did the snooping before....and ur right, just hurts. So I gave it up. I wasn't looking on her favebook, her feed just shows on mine and that's where I saw it.
I actually did deactivate it last night, but the next morning my son messaged her then she text me to tell me he couldn't message me. So I had to reactivate it since that is the only way my son (20 and in army) can communicate w me when in Korea.
Which part scares me....honesy.....All of them do .. I know, sad.
I pretty much busted an emotional affair in the beginning but she still denies it even when I had proof from app on her phone. When I called her out on it is when she started getting real bad. Not certain it ever went physical, but now with all these "nights out" lately....it is very possible.
As of 11 pm, I am at work and the babysitter is w my sleeping daughter.
Part of me loves her so much and wants her back no matter what.....another part wants me to just drop her completely like a bad habit. My daughter is at such a delicate stage, this could be devastating and have a horrible life long effect.
i'm planning on going out tomorrow. supposed to meet my buddy and his fiance out for a couple drinks and my cousin's daughter invited me over for a drink with her and her hubby. my nephew is working at a bar that has a very popular local band playing and wants me to stop in.
i have a few issues. part of me feels "i'm a father and i'm married having severe marital problems, i shouldn't be out partying!"
the other part of me wants to go out and have the best time and post it on facebook so she knows that I can do it to....but that would be stooping to her levl.
the downfall, is when I drink....it amplifies my depressed and sad feelings eventually. at first, it feels ok...i loosen up and have fun. try to meet new people (playing pool or something)...but as i'm getting later....I start seeing couples everywhere , either they came together or they are hooking up, having so much fun and I start thinking about how my wife and I used to be like that. then I start separating myself and eventually leave and go home to cry my heart out.
I even catch myself eyeing up other women....and that makes me feel EXTREMELY guilty!!!
I have went to the movies...but usually go by myself....that's a blast... (sarcasm)
I've just invested so much into my family and home that I neglected making new friends and ll of my old ones have their own families and jobs and interests.
like I said earlier, I'm reading no mor mister nice guy and I have to admit...it's disturbing! I almost feel like the book was written about me! that scares me even more
If you and your W love your D, and you don't let your relationship (even if a BigD happens) turn nasty, she will be fine. I've wrestled with the same thing with my D2. But I think that as the LBS, one thing we do have quite a bit of control over is the "radioactivity" of our R, assuming one didn't abuse their WAS during M. If we are willing to let go of anger and resentment, we give us and our WAS's a great chance to have a respectful relationship, if the M doesn't work. Then we can coparent well, and give our children a great chance to thrive.
I also understand the wresting between wanting to "love her or leave her". But that is a dichotomy of which neither end will work. If you obsess about your love for her, you will never detach, will remain miserable, you'll violate Sandi's 37 rules and most of DBing, in general. If you make some grand statement to leave her while you're in this state of mind, you will inevitably regret that, probably within a day or two of doing so. What you really need to strive for is detachment and independent happiness. It is there waiting for you, but it will take a lot of time, patience and work to get there. But once you do, you will be able to be patient, calm, clearheaded, and still in love. Just not an obsessed love that causes you to burn from the inside out while she does not reciprocate.
"It is there waiting for you, but it will take a lot of time, patience and work to get there. But once you do, you will be able to be patient, calm, clearheaded, and still in love. Just not an obsessed love that causes you to burn from the inside out while she does not reciprocate."
i'm really hoping I can make it to that point.
right now, i don't think it's a matter of IF the divorce happens. I truly feel my wife had her mind made up a while back....she completely denied it, but evidence seems to be clear
(there I go mind reading again ?)
Lost. Ill say it again. The more you focus on what is out of control the more you will be terrified. The more unwilling you are to be alone the more terrified you will be.
If you were healthy you could be alone. You would hurt. You would miss her. You would grieve. But you would be able to manage through. You aren't doing that very well with now. None of this 'I'm coming here to vent'. Until ou admit that you are hurting and reacting more than a healthy, emotionally stable individual would, you won't change, and you won't feel better.
Blaming her behavior is an excuse so you don't have to grow. Good luck trying to feel better controlling her. You say you're reading no more mr nice guy. The idea is that you believe something is wrong with you that others won't accept. That's your fear. And her actions are 'proving' that is true in your mind. Why are you giving another person control over your self worth? Why can't you tend your own garden?
Once again I would urge you to read my threads. Start with the first. I too am a bit manic and can write a lot. I too struggle with these things. I'm not a different species from you. I just learned a few things because it hurt too much not to. Check out my post on self-abandonment.
Oh, and blowing things up won't help. Anger is just hurt disguised, it's easier to feel anger because we feel like we're in control. And blowing things up is another way to regain control. It won't change how you feel and will only keep you trapped. You say you're not controlling but when you can't accept the actions of another person by definition you are trying to control them to not do what you can't accept. You can't have it both ways. I'm on your side, I want you to take the road with less pain and a brighter future.
still reading NMMNG... realizing it's not as much about me as I thought. haha However, I am definitely showing a lot of traits of a "nice guy" and I definitely can see why it is an issue.
I had a chance to chat with a friend/relative that I haven't talked to in a while and she was pretty good at making me start thinking about my positive attitude.
Also, thinking about myself actually getting out tomorrow night is starting to make me feel a bit more positive. I'm starting to work on accepting that my wife said she is DONE. it's VERY hard and heartbreaking, but not much of a choice. I'm really trying to not let the resentment build and lash out or let it get in the way of co-parenting my daughter. this is going against everything I believe. makes me feel like I have to give up on my idea of what marriage vows mean. makes me doubt the entire concept of marriage.
in the past three months, I would feel naked and paranoid if I did not have my wedding ring on. Now I'm wondering why I even still have it on.
obviously still struggling but am trying to be inching my way forward....
edit: zues, just read your post - was typing this one while you posted. thanks for the input.
Im reading NMMNG as well and its worryingly accurate. Remember that because if you identify with the NG then your W will easily recognise all the negative side affects. Read it, take it in then deal with what it teaches you.
If you haven't then read Zeus' and card's threads (and lots of others if you can) you can see the journeys they are on and if nothing else should help you see what you need to do for you. Because that is the recurring theme - its about you learning to love you, only then can you truly Love and be loved.
Thinking your not good enough is a self fulfilling prophecy unless you use that fear to make yourself better.
Was thinking last night as my wife was leaving to go out drinking she asked me to take my daughter to gymnastics in the morning. ....I was like wtf? I am working all night and usually go to bed in morning .....and wondered why SHE couldn't get up and take her???
Later at work as I'm working on pma...I was pretty happy that I get to take my daughter because I've been working on the front roll with her and she is doing great.
Baby steps
In a pretty good mood this morning....but extremely tired!
Also spent some time looking at places for rent online.....further pushed my thoughts of wanting to stay in the house and assume payment and let the wife move. I've put a TON of blood and sweat into this house.... However, if I moved I would only need a 1 bedroom and my daughter could stay in familiar home
Tough dilemma
"Also spent some time looking at places for rent online.....further pushed my thoughts of wanting to stay in the house and assume payment and let the wife move. I've put a TON of blood and sweat into this house.... However, if I moved I would only need a 1 bedroom and my daughter could stay in familiar home frown "
Lost, be still.
I'm going to keep repeating it until you understand what I mean. (it's helping me too).
be still......
was just looking at places to make my night go by. seeing what's out there....
I'm just trying to ride out the next two weeks and see what happens....she DID schedule the next session.
being still and acting still are both hard. but as long as I keep my PMA, I should be ok.....
thanks Jefe
Look at things you may want to go do or a movie you want to see or a website that sells stuff for a hobby you're interested in or interested in trying to make the night go by. Do nothing involving any aspect of the marriage = be still.
INCLUDING GETTING AWAY FROM THIS PLACE FOR A FEW HOURS!!! (me too!)
LOL yeah no kidding! when I'm at work all night in my office I don't have much else to do other than surf the web and read....some of it is total crap. I try to read peoples stories here, but they all seem to end the same no matter what....and it makes it feel like divorce is inevitable.
I need to get some friends....but it's so hard when you get older. when we were kids we could just walk up to someone and say "wanna be my friend?" and you were best friends. actually, that's how I met my wife. we were chatting online and I told her that line pretty much....the next thing you know we were dating.
don't worry...i'm not trying to date you
i have SO many hobbies that I used to do and would love to do, but they take so much time and I still feel like I should spend as much time as possible with my baby girl. I work 3rd shift , sleep all day, work out in home gym, go to karate two nights a week (occasionally saturday) . maybe I should consider going to a public gym?
I sold my motorcycles, sold my car, sold my synthesizers and other instruments....all to invest into this house that I assumed I would be in for the rest of my life.
oh well.....guess it's time to start re-living
Also, have you seen people here talking about the Stockdale Paradox? Apply it to your sitch. It is very powerful. Look it up, but basically it's two components: Forcd yourself to be relentlessly positive while also being 100% aware of the reality of your situation. Face the gravest details of your reality - say them out loud, write them down and read them. It HURTS to admit the worst, but give it a little time and those facts will have less and less effect on you and your emotions. I promise.
^^^Read this, Card is dead on with this.^^^
I'm researching it now myself.
I sold my motorcycles, sold my car, sold my synthesizers and other instruments....all to invest into this house that I assumed I would be in for the rest of my life.
Man, I got more guitars than I know what to do with sometimes. I got rid of my cars (OK I kept one in the garage). I could still spend hours on guitar and car websites.
You don't have to give up time with your D to spend already wasted time at least dreaming about some of these things on the internet instead of trying to manage your situation while your dying inside.
Seems I have made my wife irritated?
Seems she is fishing for me to ask her about her night, and I wont. When she asks about what I'm doing tonight I keep it vague but tell her minor details that she specifically asks.
That's not what irritated her though.....When I got up she mentioned she was hungry, I said I was too. She was online and said "oh, that Asian place delivers" (the place we went to dinner a couple weeks ago on our *date*)
I said "oh yeah, you ordering? " she said "I was thinking about it. ...do you want anything? " me- "no thanks, I'll warm up some left overs. You can order if you want though"
wife-"nevermind, I'm not going to have them deliver only one meal"(very snotty)
Me- "ok. That's up to you."
She got up and stomped into the kitchen
Why is she mad? I don't know and not sure I care....
Time to go have some fun!
Please don't take my last post as being cold. I was pleasant the entire time. Just logging experience
Just after midnight and I am home. Crying like a sobbering idiot. Wtf is the point
My buddy invited me to go to a "beer fest" next weekend. I want to go but not sure if I should. It is over an hour away and my buddy and his fiancé are staying the night. (They didn't invite me to stay over, lol, just to goto fest).
Anyway, I don't want to drive but not sure I want to get a room IF there is even one available. I feel that if I go I'm sure it will be fun but I don't want to end up emotional as I usually do
.
Anyway, today is a new day . Got up early and went grocery shopping......as always on Sunday morn. Came home and made pancakes and coffee. I was going to just make pancakes for just me and my daughter (my wife typically eats the gluten free ones) but I asked the wife if she wanted any even though they weren't gluten free.....she said sure. So I gave her a couple of mine.
I let her initiate conversation and kept it short. She inquired about my night and asked what time I got home. I was honest but didn't give many details.
My wife asked if I happened to get any lasagna noodles when went shopping. I told her I did because I planned on making lasagna later this week because I have a new recipe I want to try. (Remember: I don't usually cook lol). She said " oh, I was thinking of doing that as well". That caught her off guard and she really didn't know what else to say.
Later She said that the yearly Halloween party at her aunts work was Friday night "if you are interested in going" ..... So I agreed to go. I am not sure I really want to go and be there w her, but I'm going for my daughter. Also, her aunt loves me and has been the one to sake my wife about how seriously she takes her wedding vows and i have always gotten along with them. It is at a retirement home that is run and owned by nuns that live on site.
I told her I planned on going to the beer fest (just to give heads up about planning so if SHE wanted to do something she would know to get a sitter) but I'm still debating .......
I really need to get some more friends. I did run into an old friend last night and talked a bit, but it's a female and I can't do things with her because wouldn't feel comfortable hanging w another woman.
Hi Lostluv,
Are you kidding me? You are invited to a Beer Fest with friends, and you're not sure you're going to go?
The Beer Fest is a wonderful GAL activity. You put on your PMA with your friends, so they want to hang out with you. This is the same PMA that you keep on when your W is around, so its good practice. Do not be a "Debbie Downer". Smile and have fun!
Today the wife had to run some errands and when she got home she said she still had another one but my daughter needed a nap. I told her I wanted to shop for a few new shirts. She said she could take our daughter w her (but didn't sound happy). Normally I would offer to keep her because of how she hinted but this time I said "ok, I will head out then" I went shopping and got a couple new shirts then went to a movie. I text to let her know I wouldn't be home for a couple more hours cuz seeing a movie.....her response "by yourself? ?" Yep
My concern isn't about keeping my happy face w friend(s) , it's how I always end up after drinking and seeing couples everywhere. At least locally I can leave to be alone for a breakdown.
Maybe I will check on the price for a room........
How much are you drinking? Might be wise to cut that out for while to allow yourself to process this.
I know what you mean about seeing couples everywhere. You don't realize just how many people are already married until you are threatened with the possibility of being "back on the market". Went I met WAW, when I was 19, jeez, every girl I was available (not that I'm amazing and had my pick, just that the pool was wide open). I had a weak night once and checked old GFs, female acquaintances on FB. ALL of them are married now.
Until you get over that sting, avoid places heavily packed with families and couples- hardware stores, Target, populated playgrounds (find something secluded for you and D3). I also recommend regularly attending group dance lessons. It is a great GAL activity, and you almost never see couples there.
haven't drank a lot really. even when I go out (like last night) I had 6 beers spread over 6 hours.
I just went online and bought a "package" deal. a ticket for the beerfest and a hotel room on the resort.
not a cheap night ($312), but I need to do this for ME.
pretty sad though that inside I feel paranoid that my wife will be mad about how much it was. then I thought "what's she going to do, leave me?" and chuckled to myself.....
I know, that's bad to think that. and I do feel guilty....but I really need to try to get away.
the countdown begins