I hereby resolve to make a strong attempt to take at least two weeks to use up this new thread. With great gratitude for the many people who kindly participate in my threads and have helped me move along on this journey.
Maybell XIII
Owing to a trick of the call-waiting, my IC got hold of me today and spent 14 minutes and 20 seconds begging and pleading for me to come back, offered me a free session, denying that he'd said the stuff about my husband, backtracking like crazy on my moving on and finding love again, claiming to have misread the infamous hug, etc.
I held VERY FIRM for 14 minutes and 20 seconds and did not waver at all. I told him that there was no way I could close myself into a small room with him again and feel good about myself. I said I had taken time to consider my feelings and my decision and that I felt very confident about it. He still was nagging. It was kind of awful.
He would not take no for an answer. Finally I said "This is how I feel. If I change my mind then I know how to reach you. But as things are, I absolutely can not go back." And that he finally accepted.
I feel STRONG.
YES!!!! This is so great, Maybell!!!!
It must have been awkward at first but you turned it around and rocked it!!! Good for you! You stood up for yourself and definitely have made him think about his behaviors for the future. YOU did that, Maybell. You did it!!!
Roar!!! Give yourself a big pat on the back and a treat!
So excited for you and happy to hear that you feel strong.
Oh boy! What a shocker that he begged you to come back?! That = validation of your gut feelings right there.
You are AWESOME, Maybell!
Tell him if he wants you back he should read DR and come here! Hahahahaha!!
Tell him if he wants you back he should read DR and come here! Hahahahaha!!
Absolutley. Did it get easier the longer he went on pushing you away Maybell? Well done.
Wow! Good for you Maybell! What a douche he is. I'm proud of you!
It actually got a little bit harder before it got easier. Those of you who have kids know that wavering feeling sometimes, when they're trying to get out of trouble, or convince you they're sick enough to stay home from school... I could totally understand Stockholm Syndrome during that phone call, even though everything he said was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what I knew I had experienced. My lifeboat thought was, "a good therapist wouldn't be telling me to ignore my gut," and then I pictured a portcullis coming down between him and me, and then I delivered my final line. He went completely silent for the first time in the whole conversation, and I thought, my voice must have sounded different when I said that.
Later that day I was emailing with my H about the kids' schedule for the week, and I mentioned that the IC had called and I had talked to him. He said, "I hope that wasn't too painful. Let me know if you want to talk about it."
You're an intelligent woman capable of making decisions about what is best for you. You also know when a situation may be harmful to you and can express that.
Maybell,
I was looking for your thread. Lo and behold... new one and a new Maybell who morphed into
Xena the Warrior Princess!!
Fabulous!!! Love it...love it...LOVE IT!
Xena, I like it. I might change my handle!!
(just kidding about that, I like Maybell just fine)
I got an invoice and letter from my lawyer. The balance has fallen below an agreed-upon level and I need to replenish with the full amount again.
This is a pretty large amount of money and I'm going to need to alert my husband before I make the payment. We've been up-front and cooperative about finances through this experience and I'd like to keep that part positive.
My dilemma is that he was specific that he does not want a divorce, but IF we reconcile, I'm going to want a post-nup. Since I seriously do not want to have a relationship talk at this stage, how do I talk to him about paying an attorney money that he assumes would go towards a divorce he knows I don't want?
I want to keep my attorney on retainer while we are going through this so that I continue to feel protected in case things go scary south.
Thanks!
Maybe just matter of factly, not apologetic or angrily/defensively . He has rent to pay... you have a lawyer to keep on retainer. You are entitled to legal representation in this situation.
If he questions it, reach out to us for help! But maybe he won't. No mind reading... ;-)
Thanks, Claire.
Also... D11 was supposed to go to dinner with him again tonight and declined. She also declines to talk to him on the phone, though she will occasionally answer his texts. My MO when I tell her the plan and she kicks up a fuss I'd to defer to H, who always backs down. Should I offer to him to deal with this differently on my end, or quietly leave it for him to deal with and bring up to me? In similar circumstances a couple of months ago he said he didn't want to be pushy. My instinct is to let him bring t up, but I don't want him thinking I'm throwing him under the bus with her.
Hi maybell,
I'm not fully up to speed with you're thread yet so i may have missed something key, but I would say that there is a fair chance that it is being perceived differently on all sides.
When my parents divorced my brother refused to speak to my dad for about 2 years as he was so angry at him and he thought it was being disloyal to my mum. My dad had to make the effort to win him round but it also took some others, me included, to get him to give my dad the chance.
I suppose what I'm saying is that you're D might be torn about what the right thing to do is and that she needs to know that its OK to be angry at him but that you will support her whatever she wants to do about her R with her dad.
Whether or not to bring it up with your H is a different matter and might need to be led a little by what your D thinks. But I would hazard a guess that he will need at some poiny to be told that he needs to try harder if he wants a R with his D.
Hi Maybell, I would let your H handle the relationship with D11, and don't intervene. If he asks you about it, you can share information with him and assure him that you're supportive of them building a relationship, but how and when they do that is up to the two of them. I know how hard it is not to intervene, especially when we see our children struggling with anger and sadness, but this is something the two of them will have to figure out. In my case, I tell my daughter that it's natural for her to have those feelings, but that she only gets one dad, and she may feel differently in the future about him and the situation. I try to validate her feelings without throwing him "under the bus" as you say. That's about all I can do. One of my H's complaints in the past is that I intervened too much in his interactions with our daughter, so I'm going totally hands-off in their relationship and how he parents when she's at his place (even when his decisions run counter to my own). I have to practice STFU and trust that my daughter will be able to manage herself regardless of the situation, since she's a teenager now. And if not, she will learn from the experience.
Maybell,
His R with the kids is his. Let him figure this out.
I did ask in an email related to some other issues last night if he wanted me to handle it differently in the moment when she pushes back on spending time with him and he didn't answer, so I consider that done until I hear differently.
Things have shifted between us to be friendlier, warmer, and easier, but he's also working super hard. There's a project that's going to suck up a lot of time and energy happening, and it's exactly the sort of project that would freak me out till it's over, so the 180 will be trusting him that it won't end up having a bad impact on our future.
As part of he project he asked me to swap weekends with him. I said I would, but that there were things scheduled for my weekend that I really wanted to do with the kids. He said he would keep them but we all would do them together. He also asked if I wanted to have dinner at his place with the kids.
It happens that the weekend he wants to swap for is our 17th wedding anniversary.
I worry about letting him slide back in like that, and then I wonder if I'm not just making things difficult for myself. If he's just testing the waters, or if this is a new dynamic that he wants to try out. Then I remember how firmly he said no, he doesn't want a divorce. I'm CONFUSED.
I had all kinds of poetic introspection about fall being my favorite season, etc., but this is enough for now. I have a life to go live too.
Oh, and, he's "highly offended" at the IC and doesn't intend to see or speak to him ever again (IC called him but didn't leave a message) -- is he offended on my behalf or because of what IC said about him?
And why can't he just tell his parents that we are not yet in the process of divorcing? And why did his parents assume that we are???
What exactly did you tell H the IC said about him? I'd caution against mind reading. He should be offended at what IC did to you! He should be more than offended.
You are awesome maybell. Just wanted you to know I've been reading your threads and you are handling this with strength and grace.
Maybell, can I ask you something? You have mentioned dinner at his place a couple of times. Are you actually comfortable with that? My H hasn't moved out yet, but I have absolutely no interest in ever going to his place. I can't imagine spending an evening there. What are your feelings around that? I'd like your perspective, pretty please.
I've been there once. It's like visiting a piece of his mind. Seeing what things look like when he takes charge is informative.
I would love to be a guest at his place. The dynamics of our relationship were such that I never felt confident that he was getting what he wanted. To be in a place where he was unequivocally in charge would make me feel... More equal? Less uncertain? Less like baggage? It's hard to know how to put it, but I would like to know him again in that way.
When we were dating I had a 1BR apartment to myself and he lived in a house with three of the biggest pigs you've ever met, so we were always on "my turf." But when we very first met he shared a nice apartment with one other guy and I shared an apartment with a guy (who had the hots for me --awful) so we were mostly at his place till I shed the bad roommate. I fell in love when he had the better place but very little of our relationship was conducted that way. I would be happy to revisit it.
My H's cousin divorced her husband July 2013 and today on FB posted a picture of a dozen gorgeous roses with the caption "One year. He's a keeper!"
New boyfriend.
I'm feeling impatient.
Yeah well, don't get too jealous or excited. My H used to give me flowers too and I would post them on facebook. Look how great that turned out a few years later. haha!
Maybell you are doing great! And I totally get why it is interesting to spend time in his new place. My H and I also started our relationship in my space and I have never really gotten to see him living in a place that was totally 100% his own and where he is in charge.
Have a great day Maybell!
Hugs, Lisa
Thanks, Claire.
Also... D11 was supposed to go to dinner with him again tonight and declined. She also declines to talk to him on the phone, though she will occasionally answer his texts. My MO when I tell her the plan and she kicks up a fuss I'd to defer to H, who always backs down. Should I offer to him to deal with this differently on my end, or quietly leave it for him to deal with and bring up to me? In similar circumstances a couple of months ago he said he didn't want to be pushy. My instinct is to let him bring t up, but I don't want him thinking I'm throwing him under the bus with her.
Why would he think that? Is that what you would think if the situation was reversed? Trust him to talk with you if he needs to. No second-guessing required. No transplanting your story into his brain and believing you can read his mind.
Drop the reigns.
I'm feeling so impatient. There has been talk of why people want to stay married, and the reason I want to stay married is that I want to be close with another person, really close, in a first-level-of-importance relationship. The change in temperature in my relationship with my H lately confirms that I want that relationship with him. But I feel like with this new project he has going on that I'm going to be back-burnered again and I can't stand it.
I can sense that he cares about me. I know we want the same thing, and we agree that we didn't have good models for how to get it. I feel better equipped now than I was before to work towards it and even achieve it. But at the same time that I know all these things, there is still a huge gap between us and I am TIRED of living like this. It's been coming up on two years of distance. I want to be through this phase and moving into my own ideal of happiness. I am tired of wrestling this bear. I am tired of being patient and waiting for him to come around.
I know this is going to smack of being controlling, but a real marriage is what I want from my life. I don't want it because I'm not sufficient by myself. I want it because people matter to me, relationships matter to me, and a close, loving relationship is one of my values.
At what point do my desires for myself start to matter again? Do I have to just let go of him, tell him I'm done, that I want my life to look like what I want from it, and just move on? I deserve better than this. I am willing to give 100%. I want to be with someone who is willing to do that too. If it's not going to be him, then maybe my next step of healing is to cut my losses and move on.
The fact that the need to replenish the lawyer's retainer is sitting out there on a deadline complicates this for me, because I'm going to have to communicate that with him and I need to do it in a way that isn't threatening.
Can someone please help me think through this calmly? I know I'm impatient, but I'm worth more than this.
I see that this may be another snap of the rubber band and I will take the 2x4 if it is. I don't want to be divorced. I don't want to go through a divorce and I don't want to put my kids through a divorce. But at some point I need to be first priority. I do not want to keep on having to be patient for his job, especially since there's a 10% chance that the project will work him OUT of a job and that would mean another move, which I WILL NOT DO.
Oh, and he said that he "has an aversion to being in a relationship with ANYBODY" not just me. I don't know if I believe that or not (I know you all will say not to) but how long am I supposed to wait around?
Someone please talk me down.
Maybell,
Perhaps that is the issue? Waiting? It sounds like you are waiting for him to do something. What (just curious) is it that you are waiting for him to do? I'm not saying to do anything. I'm just not sure what you *expect* from him right now.
And I hope his doesn't sound harsh. From my perspective, it looks like you are still seeing yourself as a "we" (and I get that you legally are). In reality, I think you need to think about *you*. I know your h said he didn't want a D. I get that. However, you aren't really in a R with him either. So, really and truly..... What can Maybell do to make Maybell happy? Because regardless if whether you R, D or remain S for x long, that still is pertinent. I don't mean to sound dismissive. I know you want to save your M, not get a D, and not put your children through a D. They are going thru a good bit with a S.
I don't want to be D'd either. I am though. I dunno. Just what I see.
Gah... the rubber band snapped. I see that. I've talked myself down. I have a great weekend planned but I'm feeling low energy today. I'm not going to throw in the towel yet... but I AM feeling impatient and I AM really tired of all this. I DO want to be in love and to have someone to snuggle and kiss and chat with. I want to live with another adult because I am happy with people around.
Giving up and throwing a temper tantrum isn't going to get me what I want. Nothing will, except time. Sigh.
You've said 2 very clear things, you want to be married and you want it to be to your H.
You can GAL, let go of the time line and see what happens or ...not.
If he has to get another job and a move is a part of that and you're not going to do that again them you have decisions to make.
But here's the big truth, even if he comes back and things work out, life is still life. Full of uncertainty and conflict and moves and illness and bills to pay and bad weather and kids with their own minds.
Your future is in your hands.
GB, I feel like my alternatives are:
1. Wait for him to make moves to come back
2. Throw in the towel and start dating, pursue the divorce, etc.
I want what I want. What I want is REASONABLE. It's not controlling another person for me to want a close loving relationship for myself.
I think I see what you're saying, I just don't know what to do about it.
Oh Maybell I dont think it's controlling at all to want a loving R. Absolutely not! It's a similar thing I see on some threads. Sometimes people are afraid to let go of the reigns because if they do, the WAS may not "come around." There is always a risk with everything.
Labug is right. Life is full of uncertainty. Glad you have a fun weekend planned:-)
I've been GALing like crazy. It's just this "getting out and doing things" business isn't enough for me. I have great friends and I love them, but there is only so close you can get with good friends and I want a little more. I don't know if it's the timeline that's getting me down... I had three great talks with my H last week and they made me comfortable with waiting. If I could have SOME personal communication with him it was easy to be patient. Now he's busy at work, I have only barely heard from him, and I can really feel what I've been missing. I don't want that to be the rest of my life, that he is only present when other things permit. I want to be cared about enough to not be back-burnered at every opportunity. I want someone who really, really loves me and who feels as refreshed by time with me as I feel by time with him.
Maybe I should face the possibility that that's not my husband?? I don't know. I don't want to, I chose him on purpose. But I didn't have to fight for his attention when I chose him, either.
And it's the waiting thing, stop waiting and live.
There's a whole lotta life between waiting for him to move back and throwing in the towel.
I've been living. I've been doing. I've been planning. I've been looking for a job, cultivating friendships, caring for my children, managing my problems, pursuing my interests, finding new ones.
I want more. I want someone to snuggle. I want someone to kiss. I want someone to watch a scary movie with or to snuggle up to when I wake up from a nightmare after a scary book. I want to hear about someone else's day than my own. I want someone to cook grown up food for. I want to be able to say I love you or invite someone into the shower with me. I'm tired of living alone and of facing a future of being alone. I LIKED being married. I liked having a vault to pour my secrets into.
I don't want to live like this any more.
I hear you Maybell. Moving is awful. I have a FB friend (someone from HS) whose H is in the military. They have moved a lot. I see from her posts that she finds the happiness in her life, in her family. She has embraced her life--even the hard parts-- and they have a strong marriage.
If the moving is a deal breaker for you, put it on the table when it gets to that point. Maybe he will seek out another job. But, and I say this with love, I am also realizing how toxic my own resentment was in my M. My H travels a lot for work. If we get back together, we can discuss ways to make that feel more manageable for me, but I can't just resent him for it all the time if I want to have a successful relationship. I have to accept that part of our lives as a team.
I miss those things, too, Maybell. But remember that this is just a moment -- that these feelings will pass. You're missing companionship, and that is normal. Even if your H did want to work on M, it likely wouldn't be back in that magical place you describe wanting above. Everyone feels lonely at different points during this process. You will get through this, and your life won't be like this forever, so don't despair. Try to identify at least three things that you are grateful for and happy about in your life today. Hugs!
OK...
1. I am grateful that it's fall. There is something about the turn of the season that makes me hunker down and get things done which makes me feel good about myself.
2. I am grateful for the kind of person I am. We've only lived in this state for 20 months but the kids and I have an annual party planned that we're really excited about and it will be a challenge keeping the guest list short enough to be manageable. I'm lucky to have so many wonderful people in my life. (Including all the fine folks on this forum who only don't make the guest list because we're all anonymous!! :))
3. I'm grateful that the only urgency to my finding a job is my own need to keep moving forward in my life. My kids are well supported in every way and that is no small thing.
Thanks for reminding me that this is just a moment.
We are decendants of wild animals. It is in our genetics to "gather up" this time of year. It was 80 degrees here yesterday but I was out winterizng the camper, plugging air vents in the basement, re insulating water lines, and putting the lawn mower "to bed" for the winter.
It's fantastic that you have a large group of friends after only 20 months. Keep up the good work!
All my good feelings about last week's conversations have been wiped away today by five days of silence and my just being TIRED of not having the relationship I have invested myself in for the last almost seventeen years. I know these feelings are temporary but they are very very strong right now and I don't know what to do with them. If someone could please just tell me what to do with all the intensity of this feeling so I can let it go and be the person I want to be I would be so grateful.
I know I'm supposed to just get living but it's really hard to live on two separate planes at the same time when I have to interact with him for the kids each day (him asking if they want to talk, them talking about him, etc.) He is IN my life and I am so struggling to figure out how to live like this when on one hand he says he doesn't want a divorce, he cares about me, he cares about our friendship, etc., and then on the other he does so very little to show or support any of those claims. I mean, he'd rather shut down and not talk to his dad at all than clarify that the "process" isn't going and he doesn't even have a lawyer!
I do not know how to navigate all this today. I just want my equilibrium back.
My answer is usually meditate.
Control what you can control and let the rest go.
Does it matter that he hasn't told his father anything? You're giving that importance that it may not have.
This is a process and parts of it are painful, no doubt about that.
Oh Maybell,
I read your thread faithfully and I never know what to say or advise when your rubber band snaps, and it doesn't help that I am wired to give practical advice rather than emotional support. This probably isn't very DB, but would it help for you to tell him it would be more comfortable and less awkward for you if he at least clarified the situation with his parents?
Enjoy your fall day (we don't really get "fall" here like you do on the east coast and I am jealous). Pumpkin Spice Latte, maybe?
While I was stomping around being miserable I realized what an old question this is for me.
I do poorly at home by myself and I hate the pointlessness of getting out just for the purpose being out.
I need a role in life that is JUST MINE and I've been using not being able to find a job as an excuse for not seeking out my purpose. I've got to find my vocation and get to work on it.
I have one that I had been hanging on to since childhood, but I've never really pursued it properly. I made a lot of excuses for that. I can do that now while I'm seeking something outside the house too, if I just organize my time appropriately. This one thing that isn't working for me is just an excuse for keeping other things from coming together. Time to change that.
When I find myself fixating on an unfixable situation, I find something that I can fix and do it -- like organize a closet, sort through the basement for clothes for goodwill, pull weeds. Anything menial that will give you a sense of accomplishment. Just do anything to break the mental cycle of focusing on it. And -- perhaps this is anathema -- you might give yourself a break from the computer for a bit. Get outside your head, your feelings, and just do something. Exercise helps too. These activities will keep you occupied while you pass through this part of the cycle -- and keep in mind it is a cycle, so you'll be feeling differently eventually, maybe sooner than you think!~
Today is being spent searching and applying for jobs. Hence the excessive computer availability.
I'm trying hard to keep perspective. I try to not be impatient. Some days are easier than others.
Ugh. Just had interaction with my H and now I'm right where you have been, emotionally. I need to find a closet to organize! I'm going to read my own advice now... I hope your job search goes well. I know what you mean about some days being easier than others. Heck, some minutes are easier than others!
I believe that your number one goal should be to find work outside the home as soon as possible. I think you have too much alone time on your hands. NUMBER ONE GOAL...!
That would be what I would recommend and the ONLY thing you focus on right now.. Everything else on the back burner.. (Your husband, your marriage, reconciling, what he thinks, how you interact, etc. etc... all on the back burner until you find work outside the home)Too many goals gets confusing and sometimes hurts us more than helps us....... One goal.. Find work outside the home...
You said this on another thread...
I wish I understood men better.
Your threads come across to me as "women talk" type threads... Very few responses or interaction with what us men really think about your situation...
I can tell you that as a man, I would be directing you in a different direction than the one you have been on. No wonder you are "tired of it"... Is it possible that deep down inside that you KNOW that you KNOW?..
What would you say your husband is doing with his "sex drive"? Do you just believe he doesn't have one?
Also.. Sometimes people on here try to make so many changes and set so many goals that they keep getting confused. This causes them to constantly change goals or start new ones.. Very confusing..
Make one goal (ATTAINABLE).. Attain that goal.. Make another goal.. Attain that goal...
Conquer some "attainable" goals....
Food for thought....
Hang in there Ahoy. You can do it. It's the rollercoaster!
A rollercoaster with several cars on it in different places on the track. When one of us goes up, another goes town.
Come on you guys, I have faith in you. I know you'll pull through.
JCred, thanks for that rousing pep talk, I certainly feel better now.
Old Dog, what comes down generally comes up again. I had a rough day but I have a fun weekend planned and all will be well. That's true for all of us.
Maybell,
You're always one of my favorite reads! I decided I would try and get back on everyone's threads and yours was top of my list.
I thought of you today because it's First Friday in Downtown Lancaster.
(One of these days, girlie!)
You are very popular on here, lots of ongoing support from the best.
I admit that I haven't been able to read everything you've posted but I've got the big picture at least.
I'm also a SAH(Farm)M, and I know how that goes.
Sometimes getting out "just to get out" seems like more trouble than it's worth, unless you've got something really enjoyable to do.
I think re-discovering your "own" purpose is invaluable, and finding your vocation is a big part of that.
What is the one you've been "hanging onto since childhood"? I'm curious!
But for what it's worth, I'm also a big fan of the AVOCATION.
While you're waiting for that big job, dealing with the interview process and all that, what about finding some things that are at the core of Maybell that don't necessarily pay?
As they've done for me, they might pan out to be paying gigs of a different color.
Not that I'm against "real" jobs, per se, but at a time like this, the interviewing and rejection, and stress of new obligations might be an added burden.
(Or they might infuse your life with energy and supply you with a new direction.)
If you don't "need" the money, maybe this is a possibility to "find your bliss".
As they say.
Heck. You should come swing dancing with me sometime!
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Also, I agree with some others that you do seem to get whiplash from your circumstances day-to-day. That's got to be so hard.
One day you feel one way, the next day, it's the opposite. Some based on what your H is up to, some based on what you're thinking--and therefore, FEELING, some just because being in this situation STINKS.
I feel pretty detached these days, but it comes and goes. I *think* I'm getting the hang of it now.
I have a sort of Zen approach now. I try to be aware of what I'm thinking, and how those thoughts are affecting me.
Then I CHANGE THEM.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Today I was in the store and that always makes me sad.
I hate shopping for one, it seems so lonely, pathetic... I see this future of me being an old lady buying frozen discount dinners and a bag of cat litter...ugh.
Then I catch myself and I make it stop!
If I can get my thoughts to shift onto something more positive and away from all that nonsense, I immediately start to feel better.
So I thought about making some cool sandwiches for when my Farm-Boy-Toy is here next week and how much he would appreciate that.
I picture myself as the cool lady who makes all the kiddies laugh behind their parents' backs. I think how lucky I am that I can afford to buy good food--and for the fact that now I am able to actually EAT and ENJOY it!
I think about my upcoming plans, anything, ANYTHING BUT GUBU.
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I know you've heard all this before, so it's just a reminder.
I swear I credit this way of thinking to helping me detach so much.
Control your THOUGHTS (which you can do), and you will by extension, control your feelings.
I guess it's what they say when they say "Focus on YOURSELF".
I know you already know this, it's just something we often forget to be within our power to control.
Anything to help you feel more grounded is a good thing and I hate to see you going up and down on that roller coaster.
When you catch yourself ruminating over H, be aware, and change channels.
You don't want to be watching the Kardashians forever, do ya?
--------------------------------------------------------------
You're a peach, and peaches are wonderful and juicy.
However, they've got an awfully strong stone as a foundation for all that sweetness.
Stone Fruit.
(Okay, maybe that metaphor was a bit of stretch, but you get what I mean.)
You're strong deep down where it counts.
(Especially when life is the PITS!!!
)
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
----(G)GGG
I wish I had something helpful to say. All I can say is that I think I feel similarly as you do lately. The things that I value in an R just can't *quite* be met through relationships with friends, other family, pets, myself, etc. For as much as we say we should be able to meet those needs and wants on our own without waiting for someone else to do them... at some point making a decision and acting on it is probably going to be taking care of our own needs or wants, I would think? I am also having a lot of thoughts lately about wanting to take some action one way or the other...and maybe moreso wishing H would take that action since he started this train. I call it my "H needs to **** or get off the pot" story
So far I feel like if I have any doubts, then I don't need to force myself into a decision. I've had other people in similar situations say "it will come to you one day and you'll just know"... a decision will be made when it's time for it to be made, is how I'm trying to think of it (and in our cases we can't choose to reconcile if the other person doesn't want it, so I guess that's the D decision). I found labug's latest post on claire's thread to be relevant and helpful - maybe check that out if you haven't already.
Hey Maybell,
Aren't I on your privileged guest list for this weekend's party??!! Or do I have to bribe your bouncer?
Wonka, you make the cut, but you may not want to anymore...
I got home from my party, took his temperature, got upset, and threw him out.
I can't keep doing this yo-yo thing anymore. If he wants me he knows where I am, but he can't keep drawing close and then back-burnering me.
My husband left me, my parents are unreliable, and I had to fire my IC. It really is just me now. Like, for real, I can't keep lying to myself and pretending like this is salvageable. It's not. I deserve better.
He wants things not to be awkward. He wants it to be nice and convenient so he doesn't have to feel badly about being such a selfish coward. It costs me too much to let him have that. I told him I need to not be around him anymore and not pretend like he's my friend because I can't heal from the horrible way he's treated me when he acts like he did last week.
I realize I'm the worst DBer on the boards. Other people can smile and chat through their depths. I'm sure I'd be better off if I could too, but the fact is, I just can't. I need my space. I need to heal. I need to get in a place where I don't have to think about him. I can not do this.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with needing space and saying that. NOTHING wrong with that. It's not your job to protect him from himself. It's your job to look after you and your feelings and that may mean you have to be assertive with him like you were with IC. Calm, mature, straight forward but direct.
Space is a good thing. You DO deserve that. On YOUR terms. Work out the language with us if you want. We're here to help.
You NEED it clearly and you deserve it.
It's not a matter of being a good DBer or not. It's about doing what is best for Maybell at this time. Only YOU know what that is and only YOU can carry it out. You have been ramping up to this for a while.
Work out what you want to say, how you want to say it, what you really want to convey. Write it here.
We'll help. That's why we're here.
Sending you ((hugs)).
It's ok to ask for what you need. It's really ok. It's your job.
Sorry, Ss, I did it in person, on the spur of the moment, and not kindly or calmly.
He sat in that stinking chair for a long time arguing with me about why he doesn't want to make any effort to bring us back together. He sat there arguing for fifteen minutes after I told him he needed to leave. I had to ask him again to go.
I did text him after asking why he'd said he didn't want to divorce. He said he was unwilling to commit to one path or another.
I said some hurtful things tonight. I'm not proud of myself. But I'm done trying to lure him back. Men of integrity don't behave this way and I need my space.
Maybell: You said you don't understand me (men) on one of my threads. Three days ago when I had discovered the EA my W was having.
We are unusual creatures. I personally prefer a stable daily existence with budget for "whims" - chores done early on Saturday? Go to the fair. Homework and dinner done early? Make a trip to 1/2 price books or the comic books store for something silly.
But for many of us, this apparent complacency masks a MUCH wilder nature. We relish an opportunity to be a single step away from going over the edge of Long's Peak in Colorado. We hope, just once, to be in a fight for our very lives. To prove ourselves worthy.
And we'd like to prove that for a woman.
But when a man goes another way...well, it's literally the reverse of all that. That enjoyment of complacency becomes an engine whereby we take advantage of those around us. And codependent relationships that have devolved into the do nothing/nag/fight/makeup (sorta) cycle lock us (and our loved ones) in that rut.
At some point, your man has to get out of his rut. You do deserve decisiveness. I know that I got that way too late, but I am already encouraging two men at work to get on the DB/DR program to save their marriages before it's too late. They are listening, because they WANT to be there in the right way for their wives; they often don't know how. Hearing it from another man (a real man in their lives, not Dr. Phil or an anonymous therapist) makes it real. Especially when my pain is, unfortunately, very visible right now.
I don't know how to encourage you to implement, but here's what you are hearing from the ladies - from a different POV. Go kick some @$$. Get those interviews lined up. Wear something scandalous (yes, I am the Christian guy. We respond to the basics too!) Go to a swanky bar and order scotch. (Glenlivet 18 works!) Let your man know, in your own Maybell way, in or out. You are done with limbo.
Vets, please moderate me if necessary. I'm a bit of a wild card, I know.
Do something different! Experiment! Find out what works!
I missed your last post. Looks like we were on the same page!
Well, I guess we'll know how it goes!
I see, Maybell.
So how do you feel? Please don't see your laying down a boundary as poor DBing. There comes a point where you have to no longer allow yourself to be seen as a doormat or as plan B. That is precisely how he's treating you at this point.
If he's unwilling to commit to going either way then you are plan B. It sounds like you've decided NOT to be that. You deserve more. You really do. And the first step to that is space.
I don't think it's poor Dbing to request that, either. Taking care of yourself is crucial in all of this and if that means you need serious time to breathe, decompress and live life on YOUR terms thinking only of what's right in front of you, then I say, ROCK ON MAYBELL.
Be gentle on yourself. You've not only faced a lot but you're dealing with someone who is sitting on a fence and who has gently asked you to be ok with that. Um. No.
Hugs your way maybell. You are so strong and have been through so much. Keep living for you and keep your head on straight. Tomorrow is another day. New challenges new rewards.
All of us are trying to make ourselves into people our spouses would be fools to leave.
I know you have loved him and he's the father of your children, but for the record I think he's a grade A fool.
Get some sleep. Tomorrow start working on that childhood dream (like Goatgal I'm curious.
Maybell, I hope this doesn't come across as kicking you while you're down, but this is my perception of what's been happening for you:
I think you have it in your head that it's only a matter of WHEN you and your H reconcile, not IF.
I think your H has it in his head that it's IF.
And I think that's what is causing all the problems.
This is something I have thought a few times over the past month of reading your threads. I think it's why you temperature check.. because you don't understand what is taking him so long to come around, let alone why you're even bothering with all this "limbo" if the outcome is inevitably that you'll be R.
And here's what I think you need to do going forward, at least for now, in order for you to stay sane: I think every decision you make needs to be the right decision (a) IF you reconcile and (b) IF you don't.
So, every time you want to do something or ask him something or whatever, ask yourself: Would I be doing this IF we were definitely going to reconcile? Then ask yourself: Would I be doing this IF we were 100% over? Unless those two answers match up and align completely (e.g. they're both yes, or they're both no) then I don't think you should proceed.
Examples:
Do we need to maintain a civil/friendly relationship for the sake of our kids? That's a YES (if we reconcile) and a YES (if we don't).
Do we need to discuss what happened to get us to this point? That's a YES (if we reconcile) and a NO (if we don't)... so, maybe don't do it just yet.
I could be totally wrong about all this, but from what I have been noticing, you don't seem to have accepted an outcome whereby you're not together. Sure, you might acknowledge it's a possibility, but you need to also ACCEPT it. You need to be making decision based on that being your reality just as much as you do if reconciling is your reality.
Hope that makes sense.
Thank you all for your support.
Vossy, you're right, in my mind it was when, not if.
You have to understand... We're still fairly new in town, and I'm constantly meeting new people. Constantly. And every single one of them, understandably, asks "What brought you here?" And the answer is "My husband's job."
That exchange keeps this storyline running through my head, though of course I don't say it out loud:
"Yes, we moved here for my husband's job, but before the kids & I even got here their father started an affair with a 26 yo employee. He closed on our dream house knowing he had done that, and intentionally flushed our life down the toilet for reasons I never knew or understood. Then he moved out and got a bachelor pad with no space for our children and has spent the last year insisting that he has tried but I'm just not lovable enough for him to come back. I chose to marry a man who was capable of all that, and that's how I came to be in this lovely town."
So, yeah, I have not really had time away from that narrative to come to believe that this could really have happened to me after all the ways in which I tried to make his life comfortable for him.
I can't sleep at the moment so I am sure I'm stunned that I'm blew up at him like that, but I don't know that throwing him out was a bad decision. My opinion of him is absolutely horrible at the moment and the thought of him makes me want to throw up.
I walked to the party last night with a friend who I like very much but is not one of my closest friends. She asked how things were goin and I said "I don't know..." And told her about the last couple of weeks. And she told me that she had had a boyfriend in her twenties who had been with her seven years, they lived together, were supposed to get married, etc. and he dropped the bomb on her and then never looked back. And she said it was the kindest thing he could have done for her because it was so much easier to move on with her life that way.
I guess that was at the back of my mind too, when that all happened. Because it's been almost two years now since I've had anything that could even be called an honest relationship, even if it wasn't a great one, and what I really, really want is a great loving relationship. Failing that, I'll take the chance at one. And if my lying, cheating, fence-sitting pud of a husband isn't interested in that, then I'll let him be a fool and I'll be the one to move on, because I don't need to keep dangling from his string just to soothe his guilty feelings.
Btw, Vossy, you have a lot of great mental tools. I like your two question rule. But I don't think anymore that we're going to reconcile. Turns out there are a lot of things he can do to hurt me that won't drive me off, but using me to salve his own sense of guilt is where I draw the line. But I'm sure I'll be using that tool a lot going forward, because this just made the relationship a lot more complicated seeing as how we have three little kids.
Vossy's question and insight is what detaching is all about, and not easy at all to reach as truly understood and the accepted state of mind. This is by far the hardest part for all of us LBS's. And great two questions "rule".
Therefore: thanks you for having shared that, Vossy!
I think that as much as we LBS's fully woke up due to the BD of our spouses, and are changing because we very consciously choose to do so for ourselves because we did and do not like what we had become, have/do we hold on to the dream picture of the spouse that we fell in love with - who of course has also changed and is no more (and we can ONLY change ourselves if we choose to do so, not our spouses nor anybody else)?
Maybell: you, like all, are fully worth of having a great loving relationship. So good for you for not wanting to stay any longer in limbo, continue to concentrate on you and GAL.
Hugs sent your way.
25 has left another great post on ahoy's thread.
I recommend
everyone reads it(Not so) Old Dog xx
Old Dog, that was a good link, thanks for sharing.
If anyone is doing any praying today, please spare me a few for calm today as I parent my children. They are great, but realizing my stupid H has been stringing me along all this time has knocked me sideways and I'm having to dig deep it find my zen.
I will be ok, it's just getting used to this truth that I've been hiding from for so long. And trying to remember that whatever my flaws, I didn't deserve to be treated this way.
He actually had the nerve last night to say that he had "tried." Which is a total lie since he was hiding pursuit of OW from me the entire time he was "trying."
He doesn't deserve me.
So, just how I see it. You've been stringing yourself along. He has never, that I recall, said he wanted to reconcile (doesn't mean he won't). I believe he said he wanted to be friends with you.
You spin a different narrative in your mind
You say you're going to pull back, and then you don't and you end up p!ssed at him and royally done.
And then there's the lingering resentment about your life with H. Maybe you really don't want to be in this marriage.
It's possible.
He went back to IC because I said I didn't like being separated.
He said we'd need a major reset to put our rings back on.
He said he didn't want a divorce.
He said he wanted to be closer.
He asked me to do family stuff with him.
He asked me to spend time with him and asked me to invite him to stuff too.
No, he didn't say he wanted to reconcile, but that was supposed to have been the purpose of the separation. Granted I have been fooling myself about where I actually am in this relationship, but I didn't do it entirely alone.
OK, you can either do all that with no expectations or not do that and take care of yourself for awhile.
Because only you can take care of you.
"I didn't do it entirely alone." Does that matter? You have control of your thoughts, or should.
He gives an inch, you want a mile.
Or remember the old hungry squirrel analogy.
I'm hurting because I'm realizing how stupid I've been and also that he could do all that knowing what I wanted and think only about his comfort.
I've been stupid. I've been willfully blind. I didn't take my space as I said I would because I want what I want and I snatched at every reason I could find to avoid believing that this could really happen to me.
The truth is, I'm as vulnerable as anybody. I thought I was cared for but the truth is its just me. I'm having trouble swallowing that.
I don't think you're stupid and I doubt many people do. I think you're afraid and that's understandable but can be overcome. It's scary to realize that it is really up to us, we are the only one who can take care of us truly. Yes, we might have partners, friends,family members to help and support but the responsibility for our happiness is ours alone.
You're up to the challenge, you just have to decide that you are.
Have a great weekend.
Maybell,
Sorry you are hurting so much. I don't have time for a response now so I'll just say...labug is very wise.
Co
...I must have fallen in the trap of believing the end of OW would mean the beginning of reconciliation. Hard lesson to learn, that it doesn't.
I always wanted to write a novel (should just print out all my threads, that's probably enough words!)
I have been writing short stories sporadically the last four years but I keep letting that effort get disrupted by moves and the marriage debacle.
I have a half-written story I'm going to polish up for a contest that closes 10/15. And I am going to work up an outline for this year's National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo) which starts November 1st.
And I've submitted my resume for a number of jobs and I've been networking like mad.
And I think (though I'm still scared to take this step) that I'm going to make a move to separate the finances at least partway so I can feel less dependent on my husband. That is the scariest step for me. That's the truest step I could take to signal to my mind that we really are apart.
I am afraid. And really, really sad. But I have to take this separation thing more deeply seriously or I will never be able to move on. I am just so scared. I guess I never have believed I was capable of being alone. I didn't like it much before I met him. And I feel so vulnerable, especially after the IC thing (and I'm still struggling to process that.) I'm going to have to change the way I think about that from now on.
Maybell,
I have no profound words of wisdom but I wanted to extend a listening ear and let you know you're heard and supported. Whatever you need.
(((hugs)))
Maybell, fear is the worst. Remember though: right now, in this very moment, everything is okay.
Of course I don't mean that your marriage is okay, or that life is grand, but you are where you are, breathing, not being attacked by wild dogs or suffering from ebola, or driving a kid to the hospital. You are basically okay.
But fear is making you not okay, and you can't let that take over your life right now. Fear puts you in fight or flight mode, which may be why you exploded at your H.
Remember: you don't have to make any decisions right now. You just don't. Also? You might feel differently next week. So maybe don't make any rash decisions one way or another about your situation.
Making boundaries for yourself is fine. Maybe next time you can find a way to do it in a way that will bring you more peace and less agitation. We are all learning as we go along.
Maybe embrace the "IF." After all, IF does not mean there is a set outcome. IF means you don't have to decide right now, you just have to let things evolve and take care of yourself and GAL in the meantime.
Pema Chodron writes about intimacy with fear and also "relax as it is." This is where you are. It's not forever. You will pass through this. In the meantime, sending you big hugs.
I want to do Labug's plan of marking off days on a calendar before talking to H. Should I have a goal for how many I mark off to get my rewards, or should I just mark them off and see how I do? I don't think I'm a very good judge of my mental fitness at the moment. Looking back over my threads, it looks like I have a meltdown about every two weeks so I guess I should aim to go three and see what that does.
Ahoy, you gave me good advice. I appreciate it. I'm going to sit with it. I think I got all excited with the way things went in the last 2-3 weeks and forgot what I've learned.
So I just went back again and read through Betsey's first post to me.
I am sad to see how broken I am, in spite of all the work I've been trying to do. I have such a long way to go. And here I thought I was so great.
I can't keep doing this to myself. Or him or anybody else.
I need to be different for myself. I need to relax and let life happen (Claire, you used to say, the river will flow...)
I have been the fortunate recipient of so much wisdom here. I need to sit with it for a while. I need to pull it together into one place for myself (now there's a project!) and sit with it and learn it and live it. I do not know best.
Labug, you've asked a few times if I really want this marriage and right now I'd say, yes and no. I've gotten pretty dinged up in the last 17 years. I've done a fair bit of dinging too. But I wasn't nearly as much of a peach (thanks GGG!) when I met him as I am now, and for all my flaws I'm better for having been married to him. How much of that is him and how much of it is just the life I've lived while he was off working, I couldn't say. But I know for sure that for many years I really knew that he wanted what was best for me, and that he really, really wanted me to be happy. (And I want that for him, too, still; I just also selfishly want it to be with me). Also I married him because he was the first person who I felt really thought I was great, better than anyone had ever thought I was before. I tried to spend our years together living up to that.
The IC incident has shaken me. With all the cheerleading, etc., that surrounded that week, I lost track of what I found upsetting about it. It exposed just how vulnerable I am alone. I no longer feel safe the way I did when I was married. He didn't lend that much actual safety to my existence, but I feel more vulnerable.
I'm going to try to take a break for a little while from posting here. The thinking is that I need to stop and think and if I'm writing I'm not reading or processing. I haven't been living in reality and it's time to re-evaluate.
I feel like I want to apologize here for freaking out again; the writer in me recognizes that it makes for dreary story-telling. I'm not going to, though. This space was made for that, and if my bad patterns didn't show up here there would be no one to put the mirror up for me to show me how dreary I'm being.
Adding this to my pot of wisdom:
The star is inside you
Maybell,
I think you are on the right track, and certainly have nothing to apologize for. You've talked before about wanting to find patience. Stepping back from the boards for a few days (not forever, though, I hope!!) could be good to give you some breathing space.
I'm finding your new insight about not wanting to be alone and feeling vulnerable by yourself really interesting. So, is that one of the things you'll be working on?
Thinking of you.
You've read my thread, right? Nothing to apologize for. We're here to learn and grow. Try not to be too hard on yourself. I'm learning slowly but surely to be forgiving first and foremost of myself.
A random thought that came to me and might help you. Do you have many single friends? I find a lot of strength in connecting with other single Moms in particular or just single women living alone. We help and advise each other a lot on just how to manage on your own; I know they're there for me in a way that my married friends can't really understand right now. I find it helps a lot, just a thought.
Maybell, I've been trying to take a break from the boards as well and I can tell you it's really helped my mind set. As much as I value and appreciate all the guidance and feedback, I found myself obsessed with checking posts, which in turn kept my situation constantly on my mind.
Take a break and gather your thoughts. I think you'll find it helpful.
If you can't have the bimonthly meltdown here, where can you have it?
I absolutely am of the mind that if you're feeling what you're feeling, put it here. No one is going to roll their eyes at you. No one. We get it. We're there or will be or were. It' all good.
I understand taking a break to process. I might need to do the same. I'm an over-thinker by habit and posting all the time doesn't keep me from doing that.
We're here when you need us.
My H kept the kids on Friday. Didn't call yesterday. Just texted me to ask if they wanted to talk on the phone and they all say no.
I recognize this is his to fix -- I really do -- but I always feel so awkward at being placed in the position of relaying the message they don't want to talk. I worry it looks like I'm withholding them from him when I always take a couple of minutes to encourage them to talk to him. And he doesn't have a standing time or policy for talking to them. It is basically whenever he finds himself with a few spare moments, without regard for anything we might be doing. So it's "do the kids want to talk?" And straight yes or no. Frequently they don't. I've asked him to plan it more so they'll be more primed but for whatever reason that doesn't work for him.
I did send an apology email. He said
I don't think there is any need to rehash Friday. I accept your apology. I understand why you are upset. And maybe some space is good. I'm not trying to make things harder. I just wanted things to be friendly and less tense. But I didn't mean to make things worse.
After talking it over with another friend today (who said I'm entitled to feel frustrated and to express that), I clarified:
I wasn't trying to rehash Friday. I am very frustrated with myself for how that went. I enjoyed talking to you those last few times and I was hoping to sustain that level of friendliness. I underestimated just how much anger and hurt I've been living with and I'm going to have to deal with that before I can try to be friendlier with you. I wish things could be different but I need to take more space for a little while. I was in such a panic to fix things that I didn't take time to see what in myself needs to be fixed first. That needs to happen.
And I've started my calendar of solutions. Project 1: detach, detach, detach. We did deal today with some extensive scheduling questions calmly and fully, so that much was a relief.
But if anyone wants to comment on the kid communication thing, it would help.
I like your space plan and where you're starting. Detachment is its own roller coaster I'm finding. One minute I'm a professional and think I could write a how-to book on it and the next day I'm woefully inadequate at it and I'm searching all over the place for a how-to book on it. LOL
The kid communication thing... hmmm...
On days that D is with me, H calls only before her bedtime... so around 7:00-7:30 pm he'll text saying "is it a good time to call?" or whatever. I'll either say, "Sure!" or "she's in the middle of dinner" or "she's in the shower she'll call you once she's out" or something like that. It's EVERY SINGLE NIGHT she's with me. They talk for about 5-10 minutes about her day, karate, the dog, friends, a good book she's reading.
When she's at H's apartment I do the same. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. It's not a "do you want to talk to mom" question. It's "Dad wants to talk to you" or "Mom wants to see how your karate class went". Done.
If H and D were in the middle of playing the Wii and I texted and said, "does she want to talk to me?" she'd probably say no but that's not the option I'm giving her. *I* want to talk to her so *I* will.
You can't control how your H pursues a relationship with his kids. You can, however, teach your children that it's basic respect to speak to their father at least 2 minutes each day that he calls. It doesn't sound like HE wants to have that kind of parental relationship though so your hands are tied in one aspect.
Does he ask if they want to talk every day?
If he's open, and only if he's open, I'd suggest for the kids sake that IF he's going to call to speak to them that he do it at the same time every time so the kids can look forward to it (or dread it, either way) and that shows THEM that HE'S interested in their lives (which is all kids want anyway).
EEEk, I just reread what I wrote above and I'm not trying to imply at all that you don't teach your kids respect, Maybell. Jeez, that came out all wrong. I'm sorry.
I mean to say that in teaching your children mutual respect maybe they could dig deep and talk to their dad whether they want to or not. Make it a family rule for a while, to touch base with the other half of their DNA every day or every other day because YOU find it respectful.
Oy. Foot in mouth syndrom.
No, he has stopped calling every day since he started taking them one weeknight a week. Now it's every other day, and sometimes every 3rd if they decline to speak to him as S8 very emphatically did tonight while H was talking to S6.
No offense taken.
I've tried taking that tack with them.
Over the weekend I read an article "15 things every dad of daughters must do"
Yeah, I know, armchair psychology, but the list was intriguing and very fair.
Which has gotten me to thinking of my relationship with my dad, and how it informed my own relationships, especially the one with my husband.
My dad was a complete workaholic, believes in women's work, praised me for my first job at a law firm saying, "Great, now you can get your MRS too" (Hello, it was 1994 not 1964!!). I never believed he thought I was capable of anything. I have three younger brothers and he spent a LOT of time teaching them stuff around the house and going on fishing trips and baseball games with them, stuff I was never invited to do (nor was there anything he DID share with me). He is enormously conflict avoidant with my mom (though not with me). He has called me on the phone himself probably 10 times in my adult life and doesn't like to talk to me about "emotional stuff." When he would discipline me, he always invoked "How would this behavior fly if you were in an office?" (How was I supposed to know?) or he would scream in my face. He liked to pick fights between me and my oldest brother and was contemptuous if I chose compassion over self-interest in my values.
In short, my relationship with my dad is the exact opposite of what I wanted from my relationship with my husband.
My husband is many of the things my dad did, though the screaming when frustrated is a behavior I'm sad to say I struggle with. But I chose my husband because in the early years of our marriage he worked regular hours and was much more balanced. Did he really not love me all those years, or is he just easily distracted?
Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.
No, he has stopped calling every day since he started taking them one weeknight a week. Now it's every other day, and sometimes every 3rd if they decline to speak to him as S8 very emphatically did tonight while H was talking to S6.
No offense taken.
I've tried taking that tack with them.
Just a quick question about contact with the kids .
Did the calls start at the beginning of the seperation ?
Or something that occurred after the dust had settled ?
My WAW has had very little contact with the kids and I hope that will change in the future if and when she comes out of the fog .
My H was traveling internationally the first six weeks of our separation so it was not until two months in that he was able to be more consistent about contacting the kids. He has had to be prompted to actually spend time with them in person though.
Don't take my situation as a guide, though. Part of our difficulty has been about his involvement with the kids.
We just got D14 a phone so that she can talk to whoever, whenever. But she's older. And I admit that the phone is an issue -- mainly because she uses it to obsessively text her boyfriend. In fact, I had to confiscate it this morning. It's a relief not to be the go-between in her communications with H. SS's plan sounds like a good one for kids of that age.
Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.
Short answer, a resounding NO! Recognizing where you are is the first step and wanting to change it is the second.
It was in my IC's office that I really realized that I'd married a pretty good replica of my Dad. I stomped my feet a bit but reality is reality. Gaining self-awareness is very worth the effort. have you thought about a new IC? The right person can be very helpful.
We have to learn to relate to the person we married, not the person we think/wish we had married. They are who they are and always have been, we just had our wishful lenses on. The problem with that is then every time they do something that's out of character for who we wish they were, it feels like betrayal.
Can you separate out the who he really is from who you wished he was?
It's good that you're taking a break.
Aw, Maybell, I never wanted any of my posts to make you feel down in the dumps. I certainly hope that's not how you interpreted my input. It was only intended to encourage you to put on a new set of glasses and move off the square. Hugs.
As far as you not wanting to be the bad guy with the kids, well, here's a teaching opportunity. Let them know that it is *their* responsibility to tell their dad they don't feel like talking. Teach them to take responsibility for expressing how they feel and not to use you as the go-between. You know what they say happens to the messenger. Let them know it's okay to tell him this and that there will be no repercussions for stating their truths. I might encourage you to let your H know that you're going to do this as well. That way he can't accuse you of poisoning the kids against him.
I bought my now D20 a cell phone in 5th grade. Not because she wanted one or needed one to fit in, but because she was a latch key kid for a couple hours and I needed her to feel safe walking home from school. There were lots of restrictions. Whoever said that they have issues here, when my D20 was in high school, I did too. Fortunately, she never slept with her phone. If she had, I would have had her turn it off and turn it over to me until the following morning. What I did do was limit her messaging to 1000 messages a month. And I enforced it. She used to whine and b!tch about it since I have an unlimited data plan. But I slapped her with a dose of reality. It came in real handy when she moaned about never having enough time to do stuff or not sleeping enough...
One of my colleagues computed how many hours of texting 1000 messages was. Back then, it took a little bit longer and he figured it was somewhere between 7-8 hours a month. I flat out asked my D20, would an extra 2 hours a week get you caught up? Ummmm, yeah, it would help. On the months that she went over, I told her she was going to reimburse me 10 cents for every text. She did it exactly once, when she had to give me money (she is a really stingy person with her own money, but very generous with mine LOL).
I know you probably think I was a total biatch. Maybe. But I can tell you that the parents of all her friends used to comment how she was the only one without a true addiction to her cell phone. I have always felt it is a huge time sucker. And luckily for me, her dad completely backed me up. When she complained to him, he'd just tell her, "If you don't like Mom's rules, you can always get on your own plan." That usually stopped her in her tracks.
She's still on my plan and I no longer have those rules. And we text a few times a week to communicate between NY and CO. I will say that she has fantastic time management skills too.
Now, getting down to this:
Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.
No!
Maybell, I'd venture to say that many of us here (and our WASs) have unconsciously chosen our parent(s) as mate models. I know for sure that it was true in my marriage for both of us. As long as you are aware of it, you can manage it. I'd encourage you to dig deep with your IC on what you need to "finish and close" with your dad so that it becomes a non issue going forward.
Maybe your X has done the same. Yes, you CAN choose differently, but you have to know what you're doing and why before you do.
When he would discipline me, he always invoked "How would this behavior fly if you were in an office?" (How was I supposed to know?) or he would scream in my face. He liked to pick fights between me and my oldest brother and was contemptuous if I chose compassion over self-interest in my values.
Wow, this was really hard to read. Nobody should feel like an employee at home. That stinks. If anything, you don't do this with your kids, and you've parented differently. That's awesome!
Now for a little pick me up. Whoever said maybe take a break is right. Don't spend so much time navel gazing and over analyzing. I know you want to fix what's not working. You are. It's just moving at a snail's pace. But I know you know that any lasting changes are the ones that are done slowly and the right way. And it takes time to turn a big ship around. You're getting it.
So what's good in store this week?
Hugs-
Betsey
Betsy, I didn't feel in the dumps because of your post. I was really, really frustrated with myself for Friday. I went back to your post because I felt lost and I needed a starting place to go back to to find a new way. Nor do I think you're a biatch for being firm with your daughter. Parenting would be simpler if we all were.
D11 got a phone in September and she does occasionally text my H with it. I will take Ss's advice about telling rather than asking and making them tell H directly if they don't want to talk, as Betsey suggested. No matter what happens, I want my kids to have the skills and confidence to communicate clearly with the people they care about.
My FIL has apparently been pressuring my H to fly down for Thanksgiving rather than take the 11 hr drive. (He's even offered to pay for the tickets, which is absurd all things considered.) So H was bombarding me with all these logistical questions, like should he schedule this flight or that one, etc. I was feeling more and more upset and finally I texted an answer that should have dealt wih everything he could need to know to make his plans and then said "please limit how much you involve me in your logistics as I'm feeling hurt and angry at being kicked out of your family for the holidays."
He didn't answer me all day. But I felt good about drawing that boundary rather than letting him hurt me without even realizing I might have feelings about it. I hope it wasn't too harsh, but couldn't think how to say it more gently.
That thing about my dad just popped up from the article I read, which was intending to help me with my D11. The text was full of "so she knows how a boy should treat her" comments, and it really brought up all that stuff about my dad for me. I don't know if I'm ready to go back to IC. Aside from the trust issue, I don't think tackling that right now is consistent with limiting the navel-gazing.
I have never really LIVED my life for myself. I need some practice at it.
Good things for this week: chaperoned a fun field trip today. Yoga tomorrow and more job search, and I'm signing up for a novel-plotting webinar in preparation for NaNoWriMo (with my favorite writing instructor). Wednesday is open, so job search & writing and a run. Thursday lunch with a friend and the webinar. Friday spending the day with a good friend who lives an hour away. This weekend kids want to decorate the house for Halloween and we'll probably do some baking.
I'm in a weird place today, kind of an in-between place of wishing this weren't happening to me and being ok with where I am. I know it sounds mutually exclusive, but I guess the nifty thing about being human is that we can feel two opposite things at once without needing to bring them into consistency.
You're a tough bird, Maybell and that can be a good thing.
Why is digging into what's at the root of all this considered navel-gazing? Because maybe you don't yet believe you're worthy of happiness?
I get that you may not be ready yet, we get there when we get there but don't put up false roadblocks.
Good for you for realizing you needed to stay out of the logistics but it seems like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. I know these holiday things are tough. I whined and p!ssed and moaned and cried my way through that first Thanksgiving. I also felt abandoned by the family but really, what were they supposed to do? We were separated, that was the reality.
Keep pushing forward, watch out for that sledgehammer.
Maybell,
I'm gonna let Bug keep you on your toes today. That means I'm giving myself the good job today.
finally I texted an answer that should have dealt wih everything he could need to know to make his plans and then said "please limit how much you involve me in your logistics as I'm feeling hurt and angry at being kicked out of your family for the holidays."
This is freaking perfect! P-E-R-F-E-C-T. You stated something and phrased it with how YOU feel. No blame. Excellent. This is how you should proceed from here on out. No blame game. "I feel" and leave it at that. Whatever follows "I feel" is okay. You're allowed to say those things.
And keep up the good work with pursuing things you love. It's going to help you, no matter what.
Good job!
Betsey