Thanks you 25yrs and Sandi.
I did not react to anything. I just let off some steam and calmed down. 25yrs she is being very selfish right now with the kids. But what did you mean it could show a clue?
Had a very ruff morning with d9. She couldn't find the right cloths for school and that became other problems. Had to leave her home for a second to take the boys to school. That's when the oldest let me in on something, he said dad I don't think the cloths are her only problem today. Man I'm not bright! So when I got back I talked with her and of course that was the problem. Very upset about the divorce and dad didn't catch it. So she stayed home with my mom until I can get off work early to spend some time with her. We already had a cry session this morning that got her calmed down a little.
Do I let the wife know or just handle it my self?
Haven't talked to the wife since last Thursday. Wow how things change when OM come into town. Funny how that works. I must be pretty easy to replace. Kind of hurts. Just a thought.
She'll get her needs met wherever she chooses. If he's in town, she's choosing him. When he's not, she goes with her backup plan which you mistake as hope.
That feeling you have right now of being unworthy and second best? Let it get branded onto your brain. Then the next time she comes back around trying to get her needs met from you because OM is out of town, remember how this feels. It is not hope, she is playing you.
Now, what she does is out of your control, so you need to focus as much as possible on what you CAN control, which is becoming the best version of yourself possible, GAL'ing, being a great father, etc. Just keep following the advice you have been getting. For example:
- Focus on creating the best life possible for you and your children.
- Accept your W for who she is right now instead of wishing she was who she used to be or trying to make her into someone she is not.
- Set and enforce boundaries for your own good.
- Be an honorable man.
- Be a man only a fool would leave.
- Be yourself - Figure out who YOU want to be. Diligently work on becoming that person and don't let anyONE or anyTHING get in your way.
- Keep the road paved home smooth.
- LEAD your family - make sure it is as healthy and intact as possible. She is welcome to join you if she wants.
- Read sandi's rules every day.
You can waste your time trying to figure out "why" she is acting this way, or you can plow ahead. In the end, you're going to end up plowing ahead anyway, so you might as well accept things for what they are, accept the uncertainty of her, and start doing the work. Your best hope of saving your marriage is following the DB principles...so FOLLOW THEM!
-PM
Thanks PM!
Since Sandi, 25yrs, and you have all brought up keeping the road home paved smooth. What does it mean? Is it if she wanted to come home let them but have them do some work to get there.
It means don't burn the bridge. It means PMA. It does NOT mean become a doormat and/or compromise your self-respect or your boundaries as to how you will be treated as a man and a human being.
-PM
I hate switch days. The moment the kids leave I feel empty. The D9 told me today to make sure and text her every day on her Ipod. I wasn't doing it in the last couple of weeks because she hasn't been texting back, but now I know that it's very very important to her. She's having a hard time with the seperation of places and not having mom and dad in the same place. We have been doing the seperation for a good six or seven months. Just goes to show you that the pain never leaves them. Even if mom and dad are getting along great.
Makes me SAD! The pain we have caused.
To add to that last post. The kids always call and text me when there with mom. Odd that they never call and text her when there with me. They never even ask to do it. Of course she never calls or texts them either. I must be doing something right.
It means don't burn the bridge.
I like that answer! I suppose everyone has their own interpretation of the meaning.
Keeping the road home paved smoothly means not making things more complicated and difficult to work it out. Just for one example, getting involved with another woman could cause more complications in your stitch.
To me, it means that you shouldn't lay traps, set detours, have hidden signs, or place barriers across the road. And of course, don't burn all the bridges. Btw, don't try to hitch a ride with her and offer to drive.
Some men want to lay the asphalt with gold, install bright street lights on each side of the road and have flashing neon arrows pointing over his house, have road rails to keep her from leaving the road, and place barriers across any other road. They want to have a service station every mile to help her with any new issues. They
really would like to serve as a traffic cop! And to top it off, they want to buy her a new Cadillac.....with a map inside. They figure it couldn't hurt.
Get my meaning?
Couple journal entries. At Tuesdays football game for the oldest the wife showed up late(unusual, but OM is still in town). Thought I was going to blow a lid because of oldest bio dad showed up. Yah right buddy show up now that my kid is becoming a super star. Varsity football and baseball are already looking at him in seventh grade. Not to mention town baseball also. Where were you at every practice and tee ball and at home teaching how to become a leader and not a follower. He frustrates me! But anyhow kept my cool and ignored him.
While I was standing there with my mom and some other parents. The wife came and stood by me the entire game. Now I realize this not a sign or anything on my part. But what I think I does show is that she wants others to believe that we are ok or trying on stuff. This isn't the first time she has done this. She did some small talk and I listened. Found it funny, we live in a small town of 2500 people and about 30 minutes north of the cities. Told her about the moose that got hit last night on the highway. She had no clue. In our town you go to the bathroom wrong and every body hears about it. So this was big news. Since we don't ever have them in our area. Did some more talking and the kids won the game. Told her about the youngest and a field trip for school. Asked her if she could go because I could not make it. She said she could but made a comment like wow you can't make it to this and why not(work very important). I make it to all sports stuff but not much school stuff because of times they happen. One of my 180's. For all the kids stuff.
Move on to today. Get a phone call ignore it no message. Call back after a little bit no answer. She calls back in a little bit. She tell me about national hot lunch day and she can't make it. So I said no problem I got it. She didn't know what time, I said I'll figure it out. And gave me the nights and times for parent teacher confrinces. I thanked her because we signed up but both of us could not remember which days and times. While I was trying to find some scratch paper she went into this discussion about money. She was on her way to the dentist with the oldest and I asked if she had payed some of that bill yet. But of course she didn't(all dentist visits are set up on her days). She said she was going to pay it today(at least my money that I put towards it). Then she started talking about how she hasn't payed bills in a couple of months(she has the money but just hasn't payed). And money is the root to all evil. I validated and sympathized. Money has always been our issue, never enough. She must be in la la land because that is just sad when you have the money to pay bills and you just don't. She hasn't even cashed a child support check from me from two weeks ago. I just can't believe how out of touch she is with every thing. I did make this convo as quick as possible, I didn't validated to much on the money issue, let her figure out her problems(maybe push them on OM). Or at least the bad part.
Thanks Sandi, that clears it up a ton. I haven't offered in a couple of weeks, I did figure that one out. OM problably leaving soon so I'm sure she will start calling me again. That's what today was probably about. Just have to try and stop trying to fix all her problems. Let her figure it out. It's all tough because you still want to help the person you love.
Well, sort of conflicted. A while back, I mean months ago. I had told the wife that I would help out when ever she needed me to take the kids for school work or school. Well it came up tonight but she had the oldest call me and ask to watch them so she could work on a paper for school. I had to say no because I subbing on the bowling league tonight. So I feel a little guilty. BUT and a big but, she could have asked me today when we talked to watch them and no word was said. And it also odd to have the oldest call me and not her. Plus why did she have to have it done at the last minute. Plus tonight is a big night for football fans in minnesota. So I'm thinking some buddy came up with plans for the night and needed a baby sitter. But that's just a pretty good guess. I think Sandi said just be a little less available.
Thanks you 25yrs and Sandi.
I did not react to anything. I just let off some steam and calmed down. 25yrs she is being very selfish right now with the kids. But what did you mean it could show a clue?
You are putting words in my mouth. What I said was "or MAYBE she's just being very selfish but if so, I doubt it would last that long b/c it sounds so out of character for her..." Please note the correction and keep in mind that I try hard to use words with precision. So, don't quote me inaccurately.
I don't know what you mean or whom you're addressing when you say "what did you mean it could show a clue"? Please explain.
Had a very ruff morning with d9. She couldn't find the right cloths for school and that became other problems. Had to leave her home for a second to take the boys to school. That's when the oldest let me in on something, he said dad I don't think the cloths are her only problem today. Man I'm not bright! So when I got back I talked with her and of course that was the problem.
I'm impressed that your oldest gave you the inside scoop. Good!
Very upset about the divorce and dad didn't catch it. So she stayed home with my mom until I can get off work early to spend some time with her. We already had a cry session this morning that got her calmed down a little.
Do I let the wife know or just handle it my self?
Handle it yourself BECAUSE--
1) She'll probably find out anyhow, and it will mean something to her to Not have you tell her.
2) DO not be the messenger of bad news that can reflect poorly on your w, TO HER. b/c then that's all she'll "See/hear" and
since it's coming from you, to HER it will just be more hypocrisy and criticism from you
AND
3) therefore, much Less likelihood that she'd even consider trying to reconcile.
The worse you make her feel (or try to) the more she'll want to flee your presence.
It's said that when men feel guilt, they attack. I think when women feel guilt, they leave.
Just my .02
How are your GAL activities going? Can you name 2 you are DOING this month?
And what about the 180s?
The DB program works if you work the program....Give it a real chance, Please.
Well, sort of conflicted. A while back, I mean months ago. I had told the wife that I would help out when ever she needed me to take the kids for school work or school. Well it came up tonight but she had the oldest call me and ask to watch them so she could work on a paper for school. I had to say no because I subbing on the bowling league tonight. So I feel a little guilty.
You may want to feel "not guilty" but that just means you detest the discomfort of knowing you may have triggered your wife's negative feelings towards you. Fact is, she did not ask you in time AND you had plans. The End.
Let go of the "guilt" if that is what it is. It's not appropriate and where the head goes, the heart will follow ---IF we let it. Most importantly, You KNOW she has no "right" to be angry w/you, so that has to be enough for you.
BUT and a big but, she could have asked me today when we talked to watch them and no word was said. And it also odd to have the oldest call me and not her. Plus why did she have to have it done at the last minute. Plus tonight is a big night for football fans in minnesota.
All ^^ the more reasons for you to be at ease with your choice. Chances are that she wanted the kids to ask instead of you, to avoid interactions with you AND b/c she assumes you'd have a harder time saying "no" to them, than to her.
AND OR she wants to avoid feeling that you have done her a "Favor" and that you'd assume she "owes" you something,
LAST MINUTE "EMERGENCIES".;...I really think waiting til the last minute to ask something of another, is usually a passive aggressive way to "have an emergency need" for them (self inflicted of course, but admitted) that takes priority over your well planned event. You "just HAVE to help her out NOW or else..."
(Wouldn't it be nice if she'd said she "dropped the ball on this one, but could use a solid from you and will pay you back with 2 days of kid time, or whatever, but to have her OWN her mistake and ADMIT she is asking you to help her out,
at which point you don't rub it in her face, you do it cheerfully (meaning next time, when you do her a favor don't make a big deal out of it or she won't ever ask you for anything , but this time it's a "no" from you b/c you have other plans...period.
Maybe she hoped a miracle would happen, and someone else would volunteer to watch the kids and she'd have to do nothing... or OR -- WHO KNOWS??
But it is Not relevant to Your plans, which you already made, and which you already told her of. SO, let go of this whole "non event" now and move forward.
So I'm thinking some buddy came up with plans for the night and needed a baby sitter. But that's just a pretty good guess. I think Sandi said just be a little less available.
We all said be less available in this situation, and so do the books.
BUT ONLY DO THAT IF YOU KNOW WHY YOU ARE DOING IT...we can't be the director of your film. You must be. You must know why you are doing whatever you do and you must always keep the big picture GOAL of yours in your mind.
IF doing X gets you closer to the goal, great. If not, do not do it.
No it's not easy - but it's also Not very complicated. Make sense?
Then she started talking about how she hasn't payed bills in a couple of months(she has the money but just hasn't payed). And money is the root to all evil.
This is very commonly misquoted: The LOVE of money is the root of ALL KINDS of evil. Money, itself, is completely
amoral.
Good job validating.
To piggyback off of what Sandi said, don't play games. That can certainly go under the "be an honorable man" category.
Until it all becomes habit/aka the new you, have an internal dialogue where you judge your potential actions before you make them. It's old and and very wise advice: think before you speak or act.
-PM
Here is a good question. You said don't play games, but I think the wife is. Every weekend I don't have the kids on Fridays she always texts me and asks if I work the weekend. Just like she just did. Some times it's to ask to do stuff with them and sometimes it's just to see what I'm up to. Now I'm not good at this whole mysterious stuff. So how do I respond?
If you have plans, just say, "I've already made plans". If she has the nerve to ask who, what, when, and where.......I would just give a little soft chuckle and say, "I'd rather not say". She may start asking even more questions then. If she does, just say, "Bye wife" and end it. By then, she surely will get the message she is being nosey and trying to take advantage of you. Yes, be less available!
You don't have to make up something, or lie to her. Just don't fill her in with all the details of your life. She is having an A with another man, and IMO, that action/choice by her--limits how much information she can have about your personal and private life.
It doesn't take much to be mysterious to women. Simply not giving detailed information will spike her curiosity.
You may see it is as game playing, but Michele suggested it in her DR book. When your WAW doesn't know what all you do with any given day, it makes you more interesting to her. Whereas, giving her an account of every little thing could have the opposite effect.
Just to be sure I'm being clear on my end to 3kids, I don't consider not giving precise details to her when she has chosen the route she has chosen as "playing games". As sandi2 said:
She is having an A with another man, and IMO, that action/choice by her--limits how much information she can have about your personal and private life.
With that said first, the following isn't playing games (at least in my book):
If you have plans, just say, "I've already made plans". If she has the nerve to ask who, what, when, and where.......I would just give a little soft chuckle and say, "I'd rather not say". She may start asking even more questions then. If she does, just say, "Bye wife" and end it. By then, she surely will get the message she is being nosey and trying to take advantage of you. Yes, be less available!
You don't have to make up something, or lie to her. Just don't fill her in with all the details of your life.
Also to be clear, I'm not speaking for (or against) sandi2 at all.
Your W has chosen to not act like a W. By default, she loses privileges with that choice. You aren't playing games, you aren't punishing her, you aren't (shouldn't be) acting out of spite, you are treating her with respect to her decision-making.
Lastly, and this is just a suggestion from experience, turn your phone off or leave it in another room. You can't reply to it if you don't hear it go off.
-PM
Thanks you two. It is what I thought it was. I take the kids for her on Sunday nights so she doesn't have to put them in daycare. So she can go to school early early Monday mornings. Replyed in a text "why". Wife "just seeing if you can take the kids at 4:30". Then a real quick reply "so I can pick up a shift at work". Then another real quick reply "no big deal if you can't". I replyed an hour later saying "8:00 works better for me". Wife "okay".
I've learned to trust my gut on stuff. Pretty sure she had a hot date with OM and wanted to dump the kids on dad. She did this a couple of weeks ago and I figured it out and didn't say anything. God I miss my kids but a couple of hours is not going to kill me. Plus I do have to work but she doesn't have to know that. She isn't curious about me anymore just proabably looking for a way to be with OM.
PM in the place I'm renting I have a big tin shed that doesn't get service so there is a quiet place for me.
25years I haven't forgot about your questions just haven't had time.
Thanks so much you three. I really appeaciate your advise and help!
Patience and hope is all I have.
Thanks you two. It is what I thought it was. I take the kids for her on Sunday nights so she doesn't have to put them in daycare. So she can go to school early early Monday mornings. Replyed in a text "why". Wife "just seeing if you can take the kids at 4:30". Then a real quick reply "so I can pick up a shift at work". Then another real quick reply "no big deal if you can't". I replyed an hour later saying "8:00 works better for me". Wife "okay".
I like your answer. And it was true. No game there. But as Sandi said, it doesn't take much for a woman to feel a man is "Mysterious". Merely not providing all the details is you being "mysterious". And it cannot hurt your situation.
In fact, I'm a tad embarrassed, as a "co-woman", to admit that a lot of women get intrigued by the tiniest "mystery" from their men. So, I would advise you to NOT give details but always ALWAYS give the impression that something FUN is going on in YOUR NEW LIFE.
Remember #17 on the list..."you have had an AWAKENING" and your life is changing...for the better. With, or without her. WHY?
B/c You are a gifted man with Fun friends, who do interesting things & go to cool places. (In fact, you're so busy GAL galore, you can barely finish reading THIS fascinating post!! ) I've learned to trust my gut on stuff.
Pretty sure she had a hot date with OM and wanted to dump the kids on dad.
THIS is ^^^ mind reading AND it's all negative, so it's called "Stinkin' thinking' " and remember to tell yourself, YOU do NOT do this anymore....seriously. How can you stop doing that?
I'd urge you to watch a TED TALK video (youtube) by Alison Ledgerwood " Negativity & Unstuck"
or Shawn Achor on the Power of Positivity" AND OR Amy Cuddy's on "Fake til You Become it".
In each of these powerful discussions (10-20 min each) the speakers show us with empirical research that the way we think affects our lives externally. So our "insides" have a cause and effect relationship with what "happens to us outside" in our lives. We literally must think more positively and we will see positive results in OUR lives pretty fast.
We have more control over how OUR lives go, than we knew.
(And Zero control over any one else's...)
She did this a couple of weeks ago and I figured it out and didn't say anything. God I miss my kids but a couple of hours is not going to kill me. Plus I do have to work but she doesn't have to know that.
She isn't curious about me anymore just proabably looking for a way to be with OM.
Stop the negative assumptions. No reason for them.PM in the place I'm renting I have a big tin shed that doesn't get service so there is a quiet place for me.
25years I haven't forgot about your questions just haven't had time.
Thanks so much you three. I really appeaciate your advise and help!
Patience and hope is all I have.
Patience is a virtue we can all work on, and hope is not lost. In time, you may come to find that regardless of what choices your wife makes, you really will be fine. In fact, the growth that CAN come from this "ordeal" (I can't think of another word for it)
is vital to our long term happiness. It's not just a cliche to say that "it's thru failure or hardship that we learn the most." It's a fact.
Surely adversity has taught me more about myself and what's important in life, than my successes. And it is b/c of the marital challenges my h and I faced, and endured, that I am a better woman. If we had not made it thru this, I'd still have learned a lot.
I just wish there'd been another way to learn all this. (I often think, "gee God, why not let me win the lottery and test me THAT way?? I promise not to be a jerk!"
But alas, I ended up here. 
)
Anyhow, for now just Keep on keeping on!
I just wish there'd been another way to learn all this. (I often think, "gee God, why not let me win the lottery and test me THAT way?? I promise not to be a jerk!"
Oh, you did that too?
Ok 25years some Gals. I recently started hunting again. Haven't done this since I was a kid. Took the oldest out trap shooting the other weekend. While D9 and S5 shot with the BB gun at targets. This weekend going pheasant hunting with the oldest. Really really looking forward to it. Next month going deer hunting with the oldest for the first time in my life. He really loves hunting and I want that bond with him. Plus the S9 seems to really like it also so maybe we can do it as they grow up. Really looking into learning Spanish. Would love to do it by audio books or iphone if possible. Have thought about trying to play. This guitar the wife bought me a couple of years ago, at my request. But OM plays guitar and I just feel if she found out I was playing it. She would think I was doing it to be like OM. So not sure if I want to start that up just yet.
Trying to look at my career right now. Don't know if I like it. My company has just taken away all the 401k options. To cover the new health care act costs. Which sounds more and more not promising. Going to be hard to cover health care cost and everything else by my self. With no help from the wife. As far as income goes. So either a big raise to cover all the expenses or find a new career. Bowling part time to get out of the house and meet new people.
180's I struggle with. Still working on anger. Even tonight had a blast of it. Oldest is a teen man and must of had a hard day. His sister was picking on him and he let the fury out on her with a very hard punch to the shoulder. Hitting in my house does not work and not on girls to the extreme. So I screamed and grabbed by the back of the neck and brought him to his room at 8 and to bed he went. Anger is hard to control sometimes! With the wife I'm trying to be less available not reply as fast or at all. But when we do talk it's PMA the heck out of her. Seems to be working a little she's trying to call more and ask more questions. Listening to new music or what I use to like in music. Signed up for Amz. Prime and you get free music that way. Keeping a spotless house. Trying new meals. Trying to give each kid some time with just dad alone time. Daughter is tough for me because she needs a lot more time than the boys. And needs to be girl time. Boys are easy. Not watch as much tv but some days that just clears my head to watch a movie or two. Creating a bucket list.
I think you mentioned it a while ago, how a wife treats her affair shows something. Just wondering like stuff like this. When we are at school functions she wears nothing that OM has bought her like new coats and fancy stuff. Just older cloths and coats from before him. When they do stuff with the kids it's never any where close to our home town. Like the kids said they went bowling on Sunday but drove over an hour away to do it(only for it to be closed). There is ten bowling alleys in just the five town stretch. She has still yet to have him meet any of her family except for her mom. I'm not trying to mind read but there has to be something to this all. It's as if she doesn't want her peers to know about him.
Gosh I feel bad about yelling at my oldest. But he needed to get some of it just not all of it.
If you have any suggestion on 180's or Gals let me know. Thanks as always!
What a great line and I apologize if it seems I'm mocking you.
I don't mean to! But this is such a great teaching point I don't want to waste it, okay?
When you get advice for YOU, and deflect it to them, it's as if you (and WE did it too so you are not alone), are saying "But what about THEM???"
Like kids do and it's so easy to do but it's so Unhelpful...
See it here...
You wrote:
[quote=3kids][b]Here is a good question. You said don't play games, but I think the wife is. [/b]
So, um, do you want me to track HER down and tell her to stop it?
Or take her behind the wood shed & straighten her out??? OH but wait, oh wow, She's NOT HERE so... as you can see.....
HER actions are not our concern....She does not know about DBing and she is NOT trying to save her marriage; you are.
So, let's get back to you and only you, okay?
(Just thought I'd point it out to you because MANY others are doing it too, and so did I!!)
But it's sometimes very useful to SEE IT in writing -- and realize what WE are doing that isn't helping our cause. We are comparing and competing and they are not. It's self inflicted and we are doing it to ourselves.
Enough said, I'll drop it now. But Do you get my point?
((( )))
I will post about your 180s tomorrow. I'm glad to see some!!
Alone time with each kid is great for many reasons! I've been dating my daughters individually for years now, and it's truly invaluable.
I'm glad to see you self-analyzing. That's good.
Remember your short list - have them memorized. These should be ingrained in your brain now (or very soon):
- Be an honorable man.
- Be a man only a fool would leave.
- Be yourself - Figure out who YOU want to be. Diligently work on becoming that person and don't let anyONE or anyTHING get in your way.
- Keep the road paved home smooth.
- Set and enforce boundaries for your own good.
- Read sandi's rules every day.
- LEAD your family - make sure it is as healthy and intact as possible. She is welcome to join you if she wants.
- Focus on creating the best life possible for you and your children.
- Accept your W for who she is right now instead of wishing she is who she used to be or trying to make her into someone she is not.
You're doing great! Keep working!
I don't mean to get all list-happy, but here's one from my wallet:
- Be you. Be who God calls you to be.
- Be a leader. Be bold. Be honorable.
- Faith. Patience. Perseverance.
- Quiet confidence. Strength.
- Be a man only a fool would leave.
- Keep the road paved home smooth.
- A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits.
- It is never the wrong time to do the right thing.
- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
-PM
Ok 25years some Gals. I recently started hunting again. Haven't done this since I was a kid.
You're talking to a female hunter, so I applaud this!!
**(Folks, Unless you are a vegan, plea don't judge hunters who eat the meat, okay? And even if you are vegan, don't hassle him about hunting, At least not here...Thank you, thank you very much... )
Hunting can be great to get outdoors, to move early in the am, learn the ways of wildlife and see nature and it helps you get in shape and bond with any fellow hunters...also for OUR family, (h and me and our kids), retrieving the meat for your family (a year's supply in some cases) with your own 2 hands and preparing it, feels empowering. IF the sh1t hit the fan in the world, WE would survive. (Well, for awhile).
Good for you! Took the oldest out trap shooting the other weekend. While D9 and S5 shot with the BB gun at targets. This weekend going pheasant hunting with the oldest. Really really looking forward to it. Next month going deer hunting with the oldest for the first time in my life. He really loves hunting and I want that bond with him. Plus the S9 seems to really like it also so maybe we can do it as they grow up.
well that^^ is a LOT of hunting. You might not need to buy meat for a long time. We didn't buy beef OR fish of any kind, for 2 years when we lived in Alaska. (We had Halibut and salmon we had caught ourselves for that source, fyi. Plus moose, caribou and bear meat---tastes like pork -- IF the bear has been eating berries...taste like poop if its been eating fish/garbage.)
Really looking into learning Spanish. Would love to do it by audio books or iphone if possible.
I'm glad b/c it's so useful. (My parents are French, which we all had to take. And that's not as useful here out west...oh well, maybe if I go to the UN...)
Thing about iPhone language "courses" is that they are intended to be refreshers, not to TEACH you a new language, let alone any grammar that would stick.
I do it with French, so I'm familiar with that app and it's wonderful. But it's no way to learn a totally new language.
With audio books (And the iPhone "class") You won't meet OR interact with any people. YOU need to do that.
(Note - there are some free or cheap language classes in Adult ed, one to 2 nights OR a Saturday morning, per week.)
I believe that
GAL requires that we (meaning YOU in particular) need to do interact AND MEET NEW people...
3 Kids, if my instincts are right, I think you retreat too much from "life", and you don't want to get out of your comfort zone nearly enough.
FIGHT & OVERCOME THE FEAR & INERTIA ----and then GAL for real---b/c Fear & Inertia are part of why you are here.
Have thought about trying to play. This guitar the wife bought me a couple of years ago, at my request. But OM plays guitar and I just feel if she found out I was playing it. She would think I was doing it to be like OM. So not sure if I want to start that up just yet.
Fair enough conflict in this^^ choice EXCEPT W should not even know about it so her opinion won't be on your radar. Remember that GAL is NOT FOR HER to notice...it is for you to protect YOU, to grow YOU, to improve YOU and to increase the joy and fun in YOUR life..none of which she needs to know.
but note the "zero others" factor. Did you notice that before I did? OR is this the way you approach things, cautiously and without anyone else?
I'm not knocking you, but I'm curious and hopeful that You will begin to spot "customs" holding you back from an authentic life as a participant and NOT as a spectator. Make sense?Trying to look at my career right now. Don't know if I like it. My company has just taken away all the 401k options. To cover the new health care act costs.
Wow, that is a zinger. Time to find a solution there...yikes. (No answers from me on that, yet...Sorry but I'll put my thinking cap on) Which sounds more and more not promising. Going to be hard to cover health care cost and everything else by my self. With no help from the wife. As far as income goes.
So either a big raise to cover all the expenses or find a new career.
That's a clarifying nudge toward a career change, isn't it? Maybe it's useful?
Bowling part time to get out of the house and
meet new people.
YAY! Especially for the meeting new people...(Just don't pull a "25" and throw your back out, and you should have a ball..).--get it?? "Ball"?? 180's I struggle with. Still working on anger.
Can you list some of those 180s a bit more specifically? And MAYBE (not sure, but am throwing this out) instead of saying "don't be angry" as your 180, you can cite a specific behavior to do, OR not to do.
EXAMPLES:
"I won't raise my voice when 'discussing' chores with son",
or "Will not curse if I throw a gutter ball", and so on.
I think it is easier to notice and measure and identify and CHANGE, specific behaviors, rather than "traits" of ours.
Make sense? Even tonight had a blast of it. Oldest is a teen man and must of had a hard day. His sister was picking on him and he let the fury out on her
with a very hard punch to the shoulder. Hitting in my house does not work and not on girls to the extreme.
unless he's an underdeveloped shrimp for his age, a "boy" over about 14 y/o -- is too big and too old to hit anyone, let alone a smaller person OR a sister...just not acceptable. He'll learn that in THE hardest of ways, if you don't get through to him on this, asap. Dang... sorry you had to deal with that.
SO NOT COOL of your son to do that. I'd be upset too.
So I screamed and grabbed by the back of the neck and brought him to his room at 8 and to bed he went. Anger is hard to control sometimes!
Oh yeah, it's very tough to punish someone for their anger, while we are expressing our own. I get that.
IT's not easy. Hence the sayings that "being a parent is the hardest (and best/most challenging/most creative/deepest/most frightening/most fun/most demanding)--- job in the world". With the wife I'm trying to be less available not reply as fast or at all. But when we do talk it's
PMA the heck out of her.
Good!
Remember that you are "Busy meeting interesting new people, going to exciting new places and doing fun new things!" That's the mantra (or better yet- that is your Phone greeting for when she calls!!) "So leave a message!"
Seems to be working a little she's trying to call more and ask more questions.
sounds as if it IS working. Do more of it...and monitor for results when can Listening to new music or what I use to like in music. Signed up for Amz. Prime and you get
free music that way. Keeping a spotless house. Trying new meals. Trying to give each kid some time with just dad alone time.
^^^ very nice. Truly. They'll notice it more than you realize. When h went back to hthe "tundra" the day after Christmas, I took the kids to a ski place 2 hours away, for 3 days. We had a blast at a reasonable price. Super fun.
It was the First time we had gone, and NO h in sight, and no reminders. Really had a FUN time. Hot tub, DVDs at night, with pizza or whatever dinner food THE Kids wanted, and we laughed and we RELAXED...
The very next year, our youngest said "We're going skiing, right? We ALWAYS go skiing after Christmas"....so "New traditions" can happen pretty fast when the kids like them.
Daughter is tough for me because she needs a lot more time than the boys. And needs to be girl time. Boys are easy. Not watch as much tv but some days that just clears my head to watch a movie or two. Creating a bucket list.
ASK your daughter what SHE'D like to do. AND OR watch some "chick flicks" (Not all of them will make you cringe) and probe for HER reaction to them, and see about probing the positives (not the sad movies so much but at times, sure, ask her about her "darker" feelings if you are comfortable doing that.)
MAYBE if you and your w have a good chat sometime, IF you don't think your d would mind, you could ask your wife what SHE Thinks Daughter would enjoy...tell w what you've already done, or tried or wanted to try.
But word it in a PMA way you know? Like you are excited about getting to know your d better and you are connecting with her like never before...even if it is too late, this is still going to help YOU in Your new life...got it? Cool...
I think you mentioned it a while ago, how a wife treats her affair shows something. Just wondering like stuff like this. When we are at school functions she wears nothing that OM has bought her like new coats and fancy stuff. Just older cloths and coats from before him. When they do stuff with the kids it's never any where close to our home town. Like the kids said they went bowling on Sunday but drove over an hour away to do it(only for it to be closed). There is ten bowling alleys in just the five town stretch.
Sounds as if Your wife does not want to be seen with OM. Though some will harp on how deceitful that is, I'm GLAD she's not proudly tooling around with him and resolutely announcing her desire for a "Real marriage NOW", with OM.
Things are far from great between you two, but thankfully, she is Not throwing it in your face. To me that is a good sign. Certainly not a negative.
She has still yet to have him meet any of her family except for her mom.
I'm not trying to mind read but there has to be something to this all. It's as if she doesn't want her peers to know about him.
^^^ That's a fair interpretation and it's not mind reading. It's a series of choices SHE has made that you are observing, about which you are making reasonable inferences...Gosh I feel bad about yelling at my oldest. But he needed to get some of it just not all of it.
Why not MODEL an apology to him, so he can give his sister one, too? Teaching point??
If you have any suggestion on 180's or Gals let me know. Thanks as always!
I'll check to see if I posted my GAL list already b/c I don't want to bore you with it again if I already did.
But the bowling at least gets you meeting new people.
GAL does a lot of things.
GAL helps us detach.
Getting our minds OFF our spouse is key, so meeting/interacting with people HELPS that a lot.
Doing solo activities as GAL, not so much. (Exercising is healthy for us and ought to be done. But is it really "GAL" or is it more like 'taking care of ourselves"??
I think the latter, but it's not a big point. It's just to say GAL should involve others and imo, not consist of a lot of solo things. Just my opinion but loosely based on something my DB coach said along those lines.
GAL helps detach and Detaching helps us truly move forward (NOT = Giving up)
and without detaching, how can we really grow and evolve into the people we were meant to become? How can we do that while we are obsessing?
Obsessing is unhealthy and that's another reason why Detachment is crucial. IT's not just a "Goal" or aspiration; it's mandatory to being a healthy person who is not co-dependent.
That's my long winded .02 for now.
((( )))
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter.
I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you are, or 'too busy' to GAL).
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some VERY fun, creative people. I got cast a lot, too. Nothing takes your mind OFF your WAS, better than having to learn lines and blocking, and being in front of a live audience or rehearsing with other actors, knowing a live audience in coming soon.
Once after a back injury, I had a dress rehearsal for an intense play I was in. For almost 3 hours I was standing on stage, learning all the blocking (movement)& cues for a "tech rehearsal" & how the lights would do their "Tricks" etc.
Never once in that 3 hour period did the herniated disc really get to me. I was SO preoccupied by the play & coming opening night. Boy, talk about mind over matter!
So I learned a lesson that day and it SO applies to DBing as well.
Get busy, get pre-occupied and the WAS will NOT take up so much of our brain OR heart space.
I also do stand up comedy **(and in 2006 I did a whole set on a MLC at the Improv. It went very well! We LBSers are Not alone, that's for sure).**
I learned to cross country ski, & became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.
I learned to use a snowmobile (="snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding that.
I Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license. INTENSE, longstanding bucket list item.
Went skydiving. I Loved it so much, I did it again. I plan on doing it again, soon!
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape.
Looking good makes a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.
(Plus I'd just had our last child, so I needed to lose the baby weight. It was NOT easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long LONG winters).
In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.
I Saw a therapist and for some months, I went on ADs. (Both helped)
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it).
Joined the Officer's Wives club (after 15 years of active duty wife status and being an officer myself).
(I Wish I had joined sooner! I Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking--delicious!
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest some things you can do that don't cost much.
Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were Free, or darn cheap.
Finally, there's another dimension to GAL that we ALL need to remember.
GAL makes us more interestED in the world, and more interestING as people.
SO WE bring more "to the table" than our neediness.
(Do you understand ^^ this?)
Well, on that note, GOOD LUCK GAL and
being a happy camper
25years thank you so much. I don't want you to think I'm an intravert. I do try to get out once a week at least. The weekend before I took the kids to the town Catholic Church social, which was very fun and got to see all of the wife's family. Which I miss very much because I do not have that big of a family. Last weekend a friend called me up on a spur of the moment and we went out for the whole night. My kids call me a social butterfly. And I try to install that on them.
I really think I'm doing a great job with my kids through this experience. My youngest has a field trip today to the local fire hall. I wish I could have made it to it. But work got in the way. Anyways I asked the wife if she could go and she said why can't you go. I explained and she said she would make it to it. This morning the youngest was crying because he wanted dad to go because he thought mom would forget and not show up. Tells a little about he feels about the wife, WOW. Anyhow I made him feel better by just telling him that mommy wouldn't forget but if she did that dad would show up no matter what his dad's boss said. And have his teacher call daddy. He calmed down a little but continued to cry all the way to school and to the class room. Sometimes I wish she could hear some of the stuff they tell me. So she could feel the pain in there hearts. But that's between them.
Ok have a question. Don't know about DBing on this part. I had to miss my first football game for the oldest because of a work meeting. I thought I could make it to it but I called the wife on the car ride home to see where they were at on time frame of the game. She said I would never make it in time. Turns out I wouldn't. She called me 15 minutes later to tell me the game was over and they had there first loss. She tried to explain the game to me but doesn't know football that well. Then she went into how she had a great time with all the other moms and had some great laughs. I validated the best I could. Because I was upset at my self for not being able to make it and I ended the conversation. My question is this. I was looking internally and was wondering. What if I was so independent in my life with the wife. She felt left out of a lot of things. Like being a MOM. With her busy schedual during our marriage. We talk a lot about mirror affect and butterfly affect. Was she calling me back so I would start to do the same with her. That I don't know. Just have to see I guess.
I did get a point off to the owner of my company in yesterday's meeting that I am not happy with him or this company. He is setting up a time later this week to talk with me. I am a manager for one of his seven stores and I do it very very well for him. Have had a lot of promises not met by him. Now it's time for him to step up for me or I can start looking for a new job.
By the way 25years I loved those videos. The super women stance works wonders. It's like an instant mood picker upper. Just saying I forgot all that stuff from my college years. Thanks for the reminder!
Thanks PM for the list, it's a constant list I can melt into my brain. This whole situation does bring down your confindence. So it's nice to see it come back alittle.
Sorry but the question was, do I contact more? Remember I was always pretty indenpendant. I have never been the one to contact her through this whole seperation. Should I contact her more? Or give the less available approach more time. Food for thought.
Your questions are valid. It's hard to figure out the right thing to do. That's why the help of a Divorce Busting Coach is crucial while navigating this tricky period of your marriage.
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Just wow!
Well I ignored a phone call from the wife last night. And this morning she called again so I answered. Probably shouldn't have, ha ha. She got the blunt end of my D9 sadness. The tears and pain. And of course it got put on me. Beginning of conversation= the D9 told the wife that daddy still loves her and wants to make it work and that daddy tells her this all the time. Just so you know I don't do that. That would make my daughter hurt even worse and that's not ok. I console my daughter the best I can, she is a very emotional little girl. Then she went into how the youngest has been really acting up for her and crying. I told her that is why we need to get these kids into therapy and maybe us as well. She went into she can't afford it and I shouldn't front all the bill on it. I stated it is our kids we need to help them through this. She said she understood but it didn't help her money issues. Then she went into how the oldest keeps stuff from me. I think this was to hurt my feelings more than anything. She stated that he doesn't want to tell me about stuff he does with OM. And that the iphone case that he just got was from his bio dad and not her. I think there is an important part right there. That my oldest doesn't want to show his feelings about OM and bio dad. Because me hates both of them. Don't know how to fix that or what to do on that. I don't want to control S12 but I don't want to hide my feelings about either of them either. Portraying my feelings isn't good either. I validated by telling her I'm sorry you got that feeling of our daughter wanting us to work but I am not telling her that. D9 is just expressing her feelings and pain. But know you now what I deal with and we just have to be there the best we can for our kids. She then went into how the daughter told her that she would be happy if dad and mom would be just together. The wife told her so you want mom and dad to be together but mommy not to be happy. D9 response "yep"(laugh to my self "kids").
So this is when I brought up how are you doing to the wife. She said terrible.
M- what is going on
W- I'm not happy and depressed
M- how can you change that
W- I don't know
M- I thought you had a plan for this of having a support group and doing yoga and meditation.
W- (no answer to question) things are not great between me and OM either. There is a lot of problems with his family and us and everything.
M- (didn't respond to OM comment) how about your sister and family. Why aren't you talking to them about how you are with your depression.
W- I can't talk to them
M- what can I do to help you. You have to be open and honest with me. Do I have to go down to the cities in a back alley to find you some medication or take you in to get you help or what. I can't help you if you don't let me. I truley care about you and your well being your my kids mom and you have to be there for the rest of our lives. Through graduation and weddings and everything.
W- I love my job and my school. But I'm just not happy doing any of it and can't consitrate on them. I took a test at school on depression the other day and out of 50 I got 38. I don't know if it's all situational or what it is. I'm just not happy.
M- so how do you get happy. What will help?
W- I don't know. (Crying)
M- well what ever I can do to help with your well being. Your health is a big concern of my.
W- thank you(crying harder)
M- have a good day good bye and let me know if I can help
Long conversation, but that was pretty close to it all. Few things I think I need to address with my self. First I have to figure out about the oldest and what to do there. Second I have to figure out something for health insurance but can't until November 1st. She needs help but until she lets some body help or helps her self nothing I can do on her depression. The kids at my place are mostly happy so I think I'm good there. I know in my heart of hearts that I don't portray hate towards there mom or tell them that I want to be with her or anything like that. So that's on them to figure that out. But maybe I could do some thing about my portray of OM but I just don't care for that type of person. I mean who does what he is doing not a moral person what so ever.
Ok I don't understand women texts.
M- did you pay the electric bill. I just got an email that they where shutting off the power on the 14th.
W- I can try and pay it today.
W- are you going to pay your last child support from the last check
M- are you talking the last month check that you still haven't cashed or the check that is this week ha ha
W- just found it in my purse. My lucky day!
M- not mine I just lost $$$ ha ha
W- can you pay the electric bill and I'll pay you the difference tonight
M- sure I can but you'll have to pay me tomorrow at the game because I'm busy tonight
W- thank you! Let me know when you pay it. Have a GOOD night!!!
What the $&@" is that. I know it shouldn't matter but what is that. Is she mad that I'm busy or happy that I'm going to be busy. I think she's mad and sarcastic but wow some times I just don't get stuff. Just laughing to my self because I don't get it!
The GOOD night!!! That's what I was talking about Sandi. What did you think of the conversation before that?
What the $&@" is that. I know it shouldn't matter but what is that. Is she mad that I'm busy or happy that I'm going to be busy. I think she's mad and sarcastic but wow some times I just don't get stuff. Just laughing to my self because I don't get it!
Get what? Not only do I see nothing to "get", you're mind-reading and that is a big no-no. Knock it off.
-PM
I've come to the conclusion that I might be a bit jealous. And I would like to work on that. But don't know how. Any suggestions would help.
I get jealous over stuff with the wife, but don't show it and it eats me up. Like, how is she able to move on and I can't. With OM, teaches stuff to the kids that I can't or even spends time with them or does stuff with them, buys stuff for them like toys and such. With bio dad of the oldest, buys stuff for him. That stuff eats me up and I don't want it to but don't know how to stop it. Even the stuff the wife wears that OM bought her kills me. This part of my detachment would help me out greatly I think.
Yes I'm doing my GAL and my 180's. But I think I'm not detaching enough because I constantly think about her. Yah sure for the couple of hours I'm doing an activity but it's sure to follow right after it's done. I want that pain and need for her to stop. It's always there. I think the jealously is a big or small part of it.
Jealousy is often born out of low self esteem. It is a form of anger. I suppose most of us might feel jealous of our spouse and kids when it appears another person is taking our place, doing things we aren't able to do for our loved ones, or scared our loved ones will have stronger feelings for someone else than they do for us. Hard to be human without experiencing a little bit of jealousy in our lifetime. The problem is that no matter how much assurance someone tries to give you, you are the only one who control your feelings.
I have seen similar situations as yours, where the new man steps in the lives of the kids, buying things and doing all kinds of things with them. Makes the dad feel protective, jealous, and inadequate a lot of times. Hurts when the kids want to talk and praise the new man. They don't realize it's like a knife to their dad's heart. I get it. I really do! I have seen that pain up very close and personal.
One thing to remember about your kids, nobody will ever be able to "replace" their father. And, if you raised them right....then they will have the ability to like and/or love more than one person in their lives. Besides, the OM has to make a good impression on your kids, b/c they are a part of a packaged deal. You don't have to make an impression! He has to try and win them, and you don't. You already have their hearts. For a short time, they may be excited over the new man who is showering them with gifts and attention, however, it will probably fade off in time. Kids are smarter than we often give them credit for. They can see through adults, even if they don't let on that they do.
Whenever I read a user name that reflects they are a parent, like you "3kids", it tells me they don't take parenthood lightly, and that the kids are a huge part of the parent's life. But guess what? Your children know that better than anyone else on earth. They may not know how to tell you in those exact words, and probably don't realize you need to be assured right now, but they above all know you are their dad. They may have other male figures in their lifetime....but only one dad. Never worry about them loving another man the way they love you. Okay?
Thank you so much Sandi! You actually brought a tier to my eye! But do you have any advise on controlling that jealousy. In the wife's conversation yesterday she made a comment as towards that I give the kids odd or angery looks when they talk about OM or bio dad. I just want to control that about myself but I deffentaly don't like hearing about it. Because you are right it's like a knife to the heart. Even if it's some thing stupid like a little trick or something. It hurts.
All I know to advise is that you believe in yourself to be the better person. If you feel the sting of jealousy, examine your heart and see if it b/c you feel lacking in that area. You know you are a better man than OM is. You know for a fact his moral compass is out of whack or he would not be pursuing a M woman and breaking up the home of these children. You already are well ahead of him where your kids are concerned. If your kids like him, believe it b/c you raised them not to be rude the ignorant and to those less deserving. If your W prefers OM to you, believe she is the one who is messed up and making a really bad decision.....and not b/c you are of any lesser category.
I believe it does take self confidence to overcome the jealousy monster. Stop and think about it. It is the insecurity that causes the jealous feelings to follow. You feel insecure about saving your M. If you feel you've lost your W to OM, then you may feel insecure about your children's love for you. Can OM sweep them away from you and cause them to love him more than you? B/c you have been extremely hurt by your W's betrayal, it causes you to fear losing others you love. Face the facts in your brain, and follow through with the actions.....and eventually, I believe you will overcome it. It takes self talk, prayer, and practice. Sometimes just having a good friend to reassure us helps.
It takes keeping your head balanced and thinking clearly. It takes a lot of mature confidence to show grace and poise not to take the things they do as a direct personal attack on you. That is why you have to see it through different eyes. You are sorry for them b/c they are who they are. You are who you are....and they can't take that away from you.
If at times it appears he is getting what rightly should be yours, just remember it will be shortly lived. The glow will wear off what's new to them all.
When you know you are being the very best to your ability, you should never feel less of a man just b/c another man appears to come out good at the moment. Don't be jealous of a person receiving his short-term glorification that was received in an underhanded way. You did not have to steal what rightly belonged to another person. He did. That makes him less than a man of integrity. That makes him less of a leader for your children.
If you give hard looks at your kids when they mention the OM, they might feel they have done something wrong. They may feel that you are mad at them. Any attempts at explaining to them how you feel could complicate their lives more by thinking they have to protect your feelings. That could be too grown up for them right now, IDK. Some day, the children may know the truth, but for now they should not have to worry about those details of their parents' lives. Look at it as though this is your way of protecting their innocence and allowing them to be children. They have such few years before they grow up in this world.
It is tragic that your W has not been able to see or accept the truth yet. But you know what it is. Do not allow her or OM to rob you of your self worth. At the end of the day, every person has to live with themselves. I think you will have a easier time doing it than they will. To be able to lay down at the close of a day and have a sense of peace with yourself is a blessing in itself.
Hopefully, someone else can help give better advise about fighting the jealousy feelings.
Man I hate the emotional days. The days you just can't shake the funk.
Well I'll journal some then. During the convo yesterday some points. Wifes depression still is there, I knew it wouldn't go away. And will probably come back more often. Maybe when she hits rock bottom she will ask for help. She made a couple of comments to note. Don't know why she told me that her an OM are having problems along with family problems. But I knew they would now that they are spending more time with each other. Also she mentioned that when he is around the kids are happy but when he isn't they act out towards her. And cry and are mean to her and each other. She stated that she is unhappy with life. Can't consitrate on school or work or the kids. Every thing that is important to her. She mentioned at one point that she thought it was situational(depression) but then said she has so many roads In front of her that she just doesn't know which one to take. This is not the first time she said this. Way back when she was contiplating making a go with the family a choice. She was mentioning this. The roads must be a choice she is battling with of which life she wants to live. Family, OM, or indepence. She is hurting and I feel bad because I played a part in that hurt. Being less available is working I think. I was at the bank yesterday and the school is right next to it. My oldest was sitting out side, so I swong up there to see if he needed a ride. Right when I did the wife pulled up. I said hi to the wife and see ya later. Got a text right a away when I got home. How much do I owe you? You sure bolted quickly. I didn't respond. No need to.
Exicted for this weekend have a lot planned with the kids.
God give me the strength to go the marathon. I need it.
Really good post from sandi. I'm taking it to heart!
There are so many up and downs in a day. WOW. First my boss gives me a $5000 dollar raise. Great I really need it. Then the kids come home and tell me that wife and OM are out house shopping. Total downer! Sorry but time for a beer.
You are clearly too involved in every action your W makes - over-analyzing, trying to mentally process every single bit of information your brain receives and allocate it some sort of meaning or value, which is all happening at lightning speed because you are feeling desperate, but you are still coming up empty on "answers" on how to fix this and it is eating you alive. Detach. Drop the rope.
-PM
Get the picture of a tug of war in your mind. The "rope" is your emotional strings you have tied to her. She is pulling away, while you are pulling in, trying to get her back.
What happens if you suddenly drop the rope? You just let go of it and walk away.
Ok thank you. I understand now. It's all very hard to understand. But I think I get the gist. If I stop thinking about all her stuff, like action and why she is doing this and that. It will help me detach more. Stop worrying about it. Farm analogy, if you stop chasing the animal it might just come back to the barn.
The other hard part is her depression. Ignored a tone of phone calls and texts this weekend. For one me and the kids didn't sit down one second. And I didn't want to ruin my fun. Had planned on calling her back this morning when I got to work. She didn't leave any messages and just texts saying to give her a call when I got a chance. Well I didn't get a chance. So she beat me to the punch this morning and called right a way. Not to talk to the kids or anything. She wanted to drop off the money she owes me tonight. But me and the kids are busy again tonight so that's a no go. Then she went into how she really needed to talk to me this weekend because she wasn't doing good emotionally and depressed. And I wasn't answering or wouldn't return her calls. I said if it's very important leave me a message. And she really needs to get help and to let me know if there is anything I can do. I would really like to help her with the depression but she just doesn't see it yet. And I feel kind of done being her talking buddy if she doesn't want to get help.
My oldest confided in me this weekend that he's getting sick of her being to strict with the youngest two. I told him I appreciate him playing and being with them over at his moms house(the other two tell me that he is the only one who plays with them). He is taking over the dad position at her house. God I raised a great kid! He makes me so proud. And I make sure to tell him every chance I get.
25years we didn't get any birds this weekend. Corn is still up around here. But they started cutting today. Going out with an old friend this next weekend. Should be fun. Hopefully we will get some then.
Got invited over to the BIL this past weekend for a block party. Me and the kids had a blast and met a ton of new people. The one thing I have a question on for other divorcing parents. Did your kids become more clingy? Like they don't really want to leave your side when around new people.
Hi all!
Been doing great with dropping the emotional rope. Had parent teacher conferences last night for the two youngest ones. And because I have been putting so much effort into the kids and school. We had the best conferences ever. The wife just stood there dumb founded. She had no input at all with the teachers. Which is really sad. The wife is an emotional reck. But I refrained from offering any help other than taking her to the doctor. She is kind of up set the I haven't answered her phone call to help her through her tough times. But I just can't be that person for her, she is with OM. She is using me that way. Any ways I let her know that in a nice way. She then said she had no relationship with OM(lie). I said, I thought you where moving in with him. She said that's to big of commitment and can't commit to it. She said, I could live here(my house) but I'm not working on our marriage. I said, I never said that, I said you couldn't live here while still having OM. Conversation ended. She tried sticking around but me and the kids already had plans.
Then came today. Kids have day off and I had planned a day with them. Well miscommunication between I and her. So we split the day with the kids. So me and the kids just winged it and had a blast. She picked up, I continued my PMA. It's getting pretty easy. Although she kept starring at me oddly. Then standing close to me. Don't know what that was all about. But then the kids questions about halloween and costumes. They wanted to know about if we where going to all go out together. It's not my night with them so I left it up to her. She said yes to all of going out trick or treating. Great I really didn't want to miss that. But then the wife asked about costumes. And I told her where we looked already for costumes and she was free to pick them up if she wanted. She asked if it was important to me I could come with. I love hollowed. So even though this is probably cake eating I'm not going to pass that up. I love my kids and I'm not missing an opportunity to pick out some awesome costumes with them.
So she gets some cake eating but I don't get to miss out on some unbelievable fun with my kids.
Thanks for reading! Have a great one!
Ok vets I need help. She finally asked for help on her depression and anxiety. She would like to see a therapist. Which kind of therapist should I try and suggest for her and find for her. Tonight she did mention suicide again. But said she would never do it. Going to talk to her later about it because I have to pick up the oldest because of a friend family emergency. Bad car accident with semi.
So I need help!
Well I met with the wife last night. She wants help but doesn't know the direction she wants to go. Medication vs counseling. I can't help if she doesn't let me. Still don't know what type of therapist to go after. She says her problems are, school, work, kids, depression, anxiety, doesn't know what direction to go in life, housing. The direction I found interesting. She said she has paths in life and doesn't know which one to choice. She said she goes from extreme happyiness to extreme saddness. She talks to friends but goes up and down from there talks. Doesn't talk to family because she doesn't want them to know the problems in her life and doesn't want to try to explain every thing to them. I offerd to pay for what every the cost of either choice.
PM I don't know if this is her trying to gain control again but like 25years suggested I have to take this with caution and compation. I have talked with some friends that I know that have dealt with depression. And it's very very serious. But the control thought is always in the back of my head.
25years if you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Since you have dealt with this issue.
I would like to cut the emotional cord but this issue is serious. If she chooses to not get help this time I might just say "don't ask for help from me any more, this life choice is yours and since you won't let me help the offer is not there anymore". On the fence about this hole ordeal.
Don't worry about if it's her trying to gain control. Focus on you and your lists of action items.
-PM
Those all sound like valid issues to me, and things that I have struggled with in the course of my ten-plus year battle with depression. Struggling with who you are, who you want to be, and who you feel you are supposed to be is a paralyzing thing, especially for a parent of children, and even moreso for a mother. This is where you really need to listen actively to her and let her open up about how she's feeling. Revealing this kind of stuff can be very embarassing and vulnerable.
Its understandable that she doesn't know exactly where to turn. For some people, its hard to put all these complex questions in the hands of a doctor and a drug. Its also hard to find the right therapist you can develop a relationship to work with effectively. Its a process that has to be taken a step at a time, trial and error style.
By pursuing your 180s and self improvement, you can model this behavior for her. At least, thats what Im trying to do in my situation.
I would take her cry for help very seriously. Just because shes acting out on it in a way that you dont like (and my W is too) doesnt invalidate what she is struggling with.
I find it highly unlikely that a severely depressed person is simultaneously using their depression in a manipulative way to gain power in any situation. At least if my W is any indication. Depression invokes apathy and confusion (among many other things). Regardless, I wouldn't even consider that thought. Focus on yourself and supporting her when she allows. You do that, and whether she's scheming or not, she will not gain control of you since you would already have it.
I would like to cut the emotional cord but this issue is serious.
yes it is serious. But you can detach yet still be a great supporter. In fact, you'd be a much better support for her if you are detached and healthy yourself.
If she chooses to not get help this time I might just say "don't ask for help from me any more, this life choice is yours and since you won't let me help the offer is not there anymore". On the fence about this hole ordeal.
Do not do that. She is confused and in pain. It's not your job to fix that, but imposing an ultimatum or lifelong consequences for her being too distraught/embarrassed/confused in this moment to choose a means of help accomplishes nothing other than set a precedent that you will inevitably backtrack on.
It has to be her decision for when she needs help, unless she becomes dangerous to herself or others. In the meantime, detach and take care of yourself FIRST (like a parent on a plane who puts on their oxygen mask first), and do some research for spouses of depression ("depression fallout"). You might even schedule an appt for yourself with a therapist to gain some insight, even if WAW doesn't see them.
Thank you all for the information on depression. It's so wonderful to have all this support. I think she is really messed up in the head right now. I will continue to try and help her when she asks me for help. I do not want anything bad to happen to her when she is so unstable. Point in example.
Last night we took the kids out to get costumes. Had a blast. I'm going to have a little Bakugan guy, a Prom Queen death and a very scary clown. There costumes are so cool. This all took a couple of hours and supper fun. During the fun the wife got a phone call from her sister asking to meet them for dinner. It was at Buffalo Wild Wings. Which was just a round the corner from us. She asked if I wanted to join. I said my plans don't start until latter so sure. Get out to the car and I tell her what streets to take to get over there. And she tells me no the other BWW over an hour away. I told her if you want to drop me off on the way that's ok because if it was to weird to have me with to eat with her family. She asked what I wanted and I said I would like to see them. She said great I would like you to join us. Had dinner with her sisters family had a great time. It almost seemed like we where a family again. I know I shouldn't look at it like that but it still was very nice. The dinner ended and we left. On the way back to my house she made a comment that we shouldn't have done that because it messes with the kids heads. I said well there heads are already going to be messed up(should have validated better here). During dinner the BIL invited me out to there new lake lot for a big bonfire. The wife and kids are already going I guess but I told him I would have to see. I told the wife on the way home that he invited me but I didn't know if she would like me out there and didn't want to step on her toes. She said that there was going to be other people out there so not to worry about it. Got back to my place gave the kids hugs and kisses.
This part broke me because this is how real the night felt. Gave my five year old a hug and kiss and he asked what are you doing. I said going home buddy and he said why aren't you coming home with us. ( still crying as I write this). I said your going home with mommy and this is daddy's home. He gave me the most blank look with the most loss of emotional feelings I think I have ever seen in my life. Gave the rest of the kids hugs. The daughter of course says at least we don't have to text tonight. And the oldest says I'll text you later anyways. Love you dad. Now I know this was a very emotional for the wife because she could hear everything. She was getting out of the car to have a smoke and when the oldest said that she put out her smoke. Said thank you for going with us tonight and jumped in the car and left. I barely got off a have a good night.
I called my friends and told them that I was not going to make it. I sadly cried my self to sleep because of my five year olds feelings.
Well today is another day. Off to do some hunting with a friend and we will see where that goes. Sorry about the post just had to get some feelings out. I'm not trying to get anything out of the night with the wife. Just felt really bad for the kids.
Wow that is killing me. When do you see the kids again next?
So sorry you're going through that. Seeing the pain that the kids endure is the worst. Just keep doing the best you can to make it as easy for them as possible. I know how hard it is. It's also hard to believe WAS would think the pain is worth it, but there you go. Different values.
Heartless, that is what comes to mind. That their freedom is worth the pain of others is what's truly disturbing. Praying for you, I truly feel your pain.
My daughter got into quotes. And this is one she wrote down that I just found.
"Forget all the reasons why it won't work and believe in the one reason why it will"
Two more hours and I get my kids, man I love them. Thank you for all the support.
Tuff day tomorrow! Anniversary of our wedding day. Took the day off for me. Seen the wife on Sunday night kid exchange. Told her happy anniversary on Friday since I won't see you for a couple of weeks. Didn't hear her response because of the kids talking to me but I said it for my own sake not to hear her response.
Had a great weekend with the kids. Didn't sit down one second. From Halloween carnival to hunting. Even got in a high school playoff game. Carved pumpkins and cooked treats. Every one slept good last night EXCEPT the little guy with a stuffed up nose, one exhausted dad. Her family came and visited me this weekend, which was awesome because they where such a big part of my life before all this. And it was great to see them.
The wife let the kids down again, told them she would come to the carnival but never showed. Kids didn't even ask about her. I wish this fog would lift so she would actually show up for stuff for them if she said she was going. But I made sure they still had a blast.
On a side note kids said that she missed another day of school and almost missed another day if the daughter wouldn't have woke her up. OM isn't in town. Sounds like they are fighting all the time from what the kids say. Who cares but I hope she doesn't mess up with the school stuff. I hope that dream of hers doesn't get affected by this. But it's her life! Just hate to see her go down that road. Feel really bad for her.
On a better note, I'm doing great on my GALS but wish I could do better on my 180's. Still get burst of anger with kids. Hard to control emotions when they are rude. Trying to figure 180's that would better myself.
I realize it is upsetting when the other parent doesn't do a good job. This is another area you have to learn to let go. The kids are already learning not to expect much from her, and now you need to do it too. Her lack of good parenting will actually work against you b/c it will upset you.....and the kids can probably tell. Do yourself (and the kids) a big favor and turn loose. That is on her. Be glad you won't be in her shoes one day.
Sandi I don't think your telling me to explode on her are you?
I don't let the kids know this either, they just make a comment and I brush it off like its normal of her now. Because it is! It was more of a observation than anything. It's just so sad that a one time great parent that wouldn't miss any of this stuff is missing so much of their lives.
Sandi I don't think your telling me to explode on her are you?
Heavens no. When I said turn it loose, I wasn't referring to your temper.
I just meant to let go of how you can't do anything about her poor parenting, and let go of the agrivation and disappointment it causes you when she lets the kids down. You may be repressing more anger than you realize.
I saw my daughter go through this with her XH. It would upset her every time he failed to come through for their child. One day I told her, "Honey, you have a full time job being a great single mom. You can't be the daddy, too. God gave XH that responsibility and it is to God XH will give an account. You can't make him be a good daddy, so don't undertake the job.". Although she had some times the look on her son's face really hurt, she began leaning how to release that bind her XH's neglect had over her. In doing so, she was able to relax and be more pleasant with her son. It was freeing for her.
Yeah, she probably felt like exploding on her XH, too.
. But she learned she had to let go of the anger. She was surprised how much she had stuffed down.
Thanks Sandi, I knew thats what you where saying. It's still disappointing as a co-parent.
Like tonight I got a text from the wife saying how she hates having a empty house and really misses the kids and the noise. And to tell them that she loves them and misses them. Of course this makes me a little upset because she is the one choosing this route not me and this is how I feel. But I'm not going to reply because yes I'm angry at the coment. I told the kids that she loves them and misses them and leave it at that. Not getting any validation for that from me.
Yep, it is a crazy, mixed up and sometimes a dark and lonely place for the WAS. The reality doesn't match the fantasy they had when it all began. And you would think she could see how she chooses to miss the opportunities with the kids, but it is all part of her fogged out mind.
Should I validate when I get texts like this? Lately I'm second guessing myself on every thing.
Well, I wouldn't, but that's just me.
Ok I have to kind of laugh at this one. The wife just called and I thought it was going to be my daughter she had some exciting stuff happening at school to tell me, nope it was the wife.
We are suppose to take the kids out for Halloween. Kids request. She says what time do you want to take them out and I'll take them out the other half. I just said wow you can't even go out with me together for the kids. I said what ever. She said what am I suppose to do you won't answer my phone calls or return my texts. You don't care about me. I could be laying here died and you wouldn't know. I send a text saying I miss the kids and you don't reply. I said I told the kids what you said about missing them and loving them. You don't think I miss the kids when I don't have them. What did you think this would be like you wanted this divorce(I have got to stop this, it feels like I'm throwing it back in her face). I do care about you and your well being that is why I have found three councerls to talk to for free consulations. And I would pay for the rest. She said I'm just not ready to talk yet. But you should still answer my calls and texts. I said can you understand my frustration, this has been going on for three months and you will not see or talk to anybody. I want to help but you won't let me. She said this doesn't explain the kids, and there short comings of me. Not calling me or not wanting to talk to me when I do call them. I let them call you when ever they want. I said you can't put that on me they are free to call you or talk to you when ever they want, I would never in a million years tell my kids to disrespect you or be rude to you or they can't call you. That is on you guys, not me. She said Ill talk to you later my daughter needs me. I said ok good bye.
Now I kept my cool for the most part, except when she said I didn't care about her well being. I should have handled that better. But that got me. But to actually say that we should split time with the kids on Halloween at the kids request, how childish. Apparently some one had a bad day or bad news. And I got the blunt end. It's ok, but god I hope she doesn't do that to the kids. They where really looking forward to it. Water off a ducks back!
Just had to journal this because her depression seems to be getting worse by the day.
3kids,
I think our wives are cut from the same cloth. Last week, mine got mad at me and decided to cancel pre-arranged birthday plans for the family with our D (who turned 4.) She said she cancelled it for our daughter?!? Then when I asked about attending her actual B-day party this week, she said "of course your invited, why wouldn't you be." I said, well you cancelled plans before and she said "Well, yeah, I guess I did"
I think so much of this is that our spouses need to justify their actions by making us Ogres in their heads. Anything that happens that shows that we are actually caring human beings is dismissed by them. My wife almost looks confused when she'll say something to get me angry and I stay calm. It's like the logic in her head is saying that I might be an okay guy, but her emotions are trying to convince her otherwise.
Look, when she has those moments where she's lonely, missing the kids, etc., it's causes doubt in her mind that she's made the right decision. This isn't according to the fantasy plan! Ironically, she turns back to the guy she left to get emotional soothing. Why do you think she texted you to tell you she missed the kids? She wanted sympathy. Crazy!
I may sound cold-hearted when I say don't validate it, but after all....she needs to put her big girl panties on! What did she expect? I can tell what......nothing that was close to reality.
You guys may get tired of hearing me say it, but the sooner they have reality hit them, the better. Don't try to kiss their boo-boo and make it better when they whine about it.
Thanks Sandi
MCS and 3kids,
I don't believe my W is in Depression but she does the same things as your W's.
I need to do a better job of what Sandi is saying above and I think it is great advice for you guys also.
Just my opinion
Sandi you are right! That is why I didn't validate. It's very hard for them when reality hits but it's probably the only way the fog ever gets lifted. That is why they put so much effort in to blaming the LBS. Because they can't blame them selves. Finding the happy medium so they can't put all the blame on us is the hard part. My wifes depression and reality hitting are going to come to face real quick. The two combined are a real danger.
Her choices on Halloween are her choices. It's just her way if trying to control me. It's the only way she can to some extent. That is why she said all that to get a rise out of me. But she is only hurting the kids and even in her fogged out mind she would probably not do it. But you never know with a WAS. She is losing control and with reality and depression hitting it's not good for her.
As always Sandi you bring every thing to a light for me, thank you a million times over!
Just keep on keeping on! Water off a ducks back.
Have to get this off my chest. And I feel better when I do.
So I took the kids there costumes last night before I went out. The wife decided that she would take the kids to the business trick or treat and I could take out the kids for Halloween trick or treat. I asked the kids and they said they where fine with this( I did tell the wife she was not thinking of the kids, she said that they have to get use to us not being together on holidays anyways). What ever if the kids are happy. The kids wanted me to watch them wrap a present for a friends birthday party this weekend so I watched. The wife made a few comments saying how come your interested in all this stuff now and it's some of the stuff I wanted to do. That being really mean and throughing it in my face. I said no it's not it's stuff that I want to do and I have one choice in life and that's to move forward. She said how come you never did any of this for the past 12 years. And said I just want to try new things. I asked how she was doing and she said what do you care. I said I do care. I asked if she wanted the names of the counselors. She said no. This is where she started to cry a little. I said what do want from me, I am the ex husband this is the most I can do for you. She said I don't need anything from you, I'll stop asking. I said you need help and you should call some one. You have the kids and you should be happy and your not. Why aren't you happy you don't want me you should be happy. She just had a very sad depressed look on her face. We went out to smoke real quick before I left and she was talking about my GALS and what a different person I am (I am dressed very nice last night and I looked very good). She asked if I was going bowling. And I said ya I'm going bowling dressed like this. She asked so where are you going, I gave a little smirk and smiled. She said I would tell you. I changed the subject.
I ran home real quick because I forgot something for the kids for Halloween at school. When I returned she was laying down on the couch. I told her if she needs help with the depression give me a call. I wish I could do more. She started to cry and I started to leave.
This is where she will have to answer to god some day! My youngest grabs my leg and says dad I want to go to your house. I gave all the kids hugs and said good bye. The youngest starts flipping out on how he wants to come with me and come to my house. She yells at him from the couch to nock it off. He continues and gets worse. I tell him that he gets to see me tommorow for Halloween. And he gets to come to my house on Sunday. I tell him he should stay there and have fun with mom. He keeps flipping out and my daughter has to grab him( not even the wife she didn't even get off the couch). She grabs him as I run out off the house. Now that is messed up!!!! What is wrong with this woman. I hope that burns into her brain because I will remember it forever! My poor kids.
Just weighing in on a few things.
COUNTLESS are the times that I dealt with my son breaking down when I was dropping him of with XW. The door would close behind me and I would cry my effing eyes out -- it was more pain than I could handle. Not sure of your entire situation - but that is something that is always hard. Even though your wife seems rigid on the exterior -- it's hurting her on the inside...she just isn't goingto let YOU see that.
The other thing is this...your remarks are too much to her - it almost seems as if you are taunting her -
"You have the kids and you should be happy and your not. Why aren't you happy you don't want me you should be happy"......that pretty much is taunting. Trust me...I get it, there is a part of all of us that wants to break out the rolled up newspaper and take a swipe at your S.O. when you see them suffering from their own decisions. But truthfully, it's more about YOUR unhappiness in those moments than hers. Don't take the bait and don't push buttons when they are vulnerable. If you don't feel like you can say anything constructive - don't say anything. Simple rule - but effective.
Crimson
The wife made a few comments saying how come your interested in all this stuff now and it's some of the stuff I wanted to do.
"Let's just say I've had my eyes opened".
Thanks Sandi!
I feel really defeated today! My hope is dimensioning. I just wish there was some sort of sign I was going in the right direction.
I just wish there was some sort of sign I was going in the right direction.
Oh please! Your wife notices your changes, is depressed because reality hits hard, the kids show her the pain she's causing, she's curious about your whereabouts, etc. What do you want more at this stage? It's as good as it's going to get for now. Be happy with what you got.
Sounds like a good day to put your head down and just plow forward. Feelings will come and go - what you have to do is figure out where you want to go, how you are going to get there, and the rest is just doing the work whether you feel like it or not.
Another response, similar to sandi's:
"I made mistakes in the past and I have no intention of repeating them."
These are not magic responses, they are just statements of truth. So there is a way to respond to your W's remarks (if warranted) in truth and without the backhanded ~"this is the life you wanted" response that you have tossed back at her when you weren't in full control of your emotions and actions.
The reality is your W isn't REALLY asking why you are acting like this now, she's expressing her displeasure that you are acting like this NOW...and not back when she wanted you to. Right NOW, she doesn't want you to be like this because she has already written you off and labeled you, and these actions of yours don't fit any of the labels she has put on you, so it frustrates her and she probably doesn't believe your changes either. But she's obviously noticing them, so just keep on becoming the man you want to be. Put your head down and plow forward.
-PM
I feel really defeated today! My hope is dimensioning. I just wish there was some sort of sign I was going in the right direction.
You are just expecting the wrong type on signs. Her whining about you doing things now that she use to want from you......
are signs. She will be angry that you waited till she was through with the M and then made your changes.
Her feelings didn't change overnight. You may have been in the dark about it, but it took time and her feelings slowly changing to get her to the place of being "done". It will take time and her feelings slowly changing for her to work her way back. That will require her to go through phases of anger and depression and facing her reality as a result of her own decisions. It takes her looking back at you and seeing a man she gave up and second guessing that decision.
You don't have to defend yourself with some deep explanation. Let her feel what she feels. Unless she starts getting disrespectful, you may try agreeing with some things she may say.
W: "You never did this when I wanted you to."
H: "You're right, and I regret it now."
W: "So what are you trying to prove now? Do you think being super dad is going to get me to go back to you?"
H: "I'm not trying to prove anything. I have my eyes open and trying to do better. I am not trying to impress you or anyone else.". (That may be too wordy. You could just pick one of those sentences to say.)
W: "Well it won't last. You will fall back into your old habits."
H: "You may be right, but I hope I've leaned my lesson. I guess time will tell."
It would be easy to give a wordy reply.......which could easily lead to a R talk. But that is not the goal here. The goal is to give short answers that will not turn into an argument or R talk. Let her see that her cutting remarks will not goad you into a speech or reaction.
Thank you so much you all. I guess I was looking for more of a different sign. But I am no where near the place of the signs I was looking for.
Last night was fun, I got to take the kids out trick or treating. First year I have ever dressed up and gone out with them. Kids loved it, the wife even made a comment on how she liked it. I couldn't believe it she got dressed up and volunteered at school for the youngest. Big change for her, I was happy to see that part of her return. Even complimented her on it. It was good to see. Before she left she told me wear she was going and I blew it off. When she picked up the kids, I told her thank you for letting take them out.
She told me she was going to see an old friend of hers. This friend is a great person I've know for a very long time and the whole family. It made me kind of happy. For these reasons, the mom and dad just recently got divorced, the dad's choice (MLC). But the mom has been a really good friend of my family, she helped us out tremendously when my dad died. She still holds hope that her husband will snap out of it (although he is kind of a puke). Her and her daughter live together now. The friend was recently engaged to a some what nice guy. Until she found out he was cheating on her. This friend has been to the hospital at all our kids births, that's how close they use to be. The friend and her boyfriend are trying to work it out now, nearly 8 months later. This convo made me happy because if there was a great person to steer her back to reality it would be her. In the convo I got to acknowledge forgiveness, happiness, and future. Great convo.
Even got more questions from the wife. On what I was doing last night or the weekend. Once or twice when she dropped of and twice when she picked up. Always asking if I was going out to the bars. Now all my plans had gotten canceled but I wasn't going to let her in on that. So I just simple said the whole time "haven't decided yet". But yet told the kids dad was going out after mom picked them up. So it was a good night until she had to get the last word in. She said some one else would be dropping of the kids on Sunday because she was going to a concert. All I said was "have fun". Trying to through him in my face.
This OM is just useing her and she can't see it. And it kills me. The kids are happy because he is not around that much. He apperantly comes to the house after there in bed and leaves in the early morning. Doesn't spend time with them. I think I have this guy figured out pretty good now. He still has not met any of her family, when he comes home he apperantly spends a lot of time with his elderly parents. And goes out occasionally with the wife. Basically a friend with benifits. He is a weak weak man. And I pray to god I never meet him. Because right now he is just a sample of the probalames in our marriage. If I where to meet him his face would be burned into my memorie.
Thank you all so MUCH!
Great job!
Thanks Sandi!
Finally got to work out yesterday. And I forgot how much that boost your ego. I was down a good couple of weeks. So it really helped. Her asking my warabouts is a good thing and if I like it or not her throughing there fun in my face is a good thing(I think).
I really had to laugh at this. This is truly funny and shows a lot.
Last night I went over to the BIL to help him fix his truck. In convo he asked if my youngest was available tomorrow for a play date with his kid. I said no because the wife has the kids. And she told me she was going to some concert with OM. He laughs and tells me a story(remember he has never seen OM).
The story goes like this. He was out ripping around on his four wheeler. And decided to pull into my old house where the wife lives now. He says he pulled into the drive way and seen OM jeep there. He ripped up the drive way and seen some one jump behind one of the sheds. He gets up there and my wife is sitting there smoking waves and drives away.
This tells so much of the OM it is funny. He is not a man and is scared of either been seen at the house by someone or family or me. It shows so much about there relationship. How can any women be happy with or proud of a man that hides around like this. This relationship is doomed.
And I now know my BIL truly does not like what his sister is doing and will never like OM or except him. And I'm sure the wife knows this.
Keep it up buddy. You're getting there!
Just an update.
The wife is asking the kids about praying. This is something that I started about two months ago. I would like to go to church more but mine and the kids busy schedules don't always accommodate. So every time we have a dinner that we can sit down together we pray. I, the oldest and the daughter take turns doing the prayer. The daughter loves it and so does the youngest. The daughter says she has started to do it at almost every meal. The oldest is unsure about it, but I explained that without god who does he thank for his great athletic ability. He states he thanks him every game. And I told him that's great but you can't thank god enough. So apperantly last week the wife asked the kids to show her how they pray at my house. They did and the daughter gave the prayer. They said they only did it once and OM wasn't there. Still made me feel good. For one they are spreading there love of god and second the wife is asking about what we do in our lives. This is a good sign!
Well the wife me this morning early. Asking if my mom could watch the daughter because she was home sick. I said of course she could it would just be a little bit because she would have to wake up and take a shower. We had a discussion that she would only have to be there for a hour or so. And I told her that she knows my mom and she would spend the day with her. She said thank you and hung up. I finished what I was doing at work and was about to call my mom and the wife called back. She said never mind about calling my mom. And I asked why? She said it was her day with the kids and my mom shouldn't have to handle the kids on her day. I told her it was no problem and my mom would be ok with it. She said she would take care of it and never mind. I said ok and we hung up.
I'm sad reality is hitting us both on this one. And my pour baby girl.
What a strange interaction. It seems like your W had second thoughts. But don't be sorry for your D (at 9, she's not a baby!) and for yourself by the same token. She's with her mom and until recently you thought she was a good one.
Personally, I never insist ("really, it's no problem") because I want my W to know that she's in full control. Also, I avoid being rejected or even letting her know that I wanted something.
I agree. I might also add, as a grandparent, not to be so hasty in volunteering your mother to babysit. Even if you know she would love to do it, wouldn't it be best for your WAW to ask her herself? Let the two women work that out.
I honestly think it is good that she realizes she needs to take charge of finding a sitter, and not put that off on you. Not that you mind, that's not the point. It is about wearing her big girl panties. The W, not the child.
So it's a snow day in Minny. Kids are home playing in the winter wonderland. Love it, I get calls every half an hour, can we do this, can we do that.
Had I good one yesterday. I don't talk to the wife anymore maybe once a week and about two text messages. So this one was something to remember. She wanted the daughter yesterday for a movie she was doing for nurse school, I had already said yes to it. But our communication skills still are horrible. We didn't communicate that she had to set it up with other people and daughter. Where I thought it was just the daughter. So no movie screen shot for the nine year old. This kind of upset me because the daughter was already looking forward to it but both are bad and nothing could be done.
But when I called after the text message to see why not, I got a balling wife. Call it what you want, I still care. So I asked what's up. I got I'm having a really bad day so I couldn't have done the movie anyways. I asked if there was anything I could do. And she declined and cried harder. I validated a little but she still didn't say why she was crying and we hung up. Me and the kids continued go about our business( no deer this weekend for me and the kids). When we got done hunting I started to make dinner for us. And I thought to myself I'm just going to send off a text to her because that's not like her to pick up the phone crying that hard. Text said "hope your ok?"(depression is what I was thinking). I got back "thanks my name, that means a lot to me. I'm ok. I just a sent back "ok :)". Then I got back "seriously :)". I thought she was made at the ok with a happy face so I asked "what does that mean". She wrote back " I'm saying it seriously means a lot, I'm not just saying it. :)". I wrote back " well good, I still care you know".
If nothing else it was a drop in the love tank on a very bad day for her. Don't know why she was crying so hard but what ever it was must have hurt her.
It's getting to the point I don't think I'll ever get my marriage back or a new one with her. From what the kids say it sounds like her and OM are getting a house in a close town together(kids have seen it a couple of times now). Om still has no plans of moving back here full time. Still two weeks here and two weeks in Alaska. But that's her life and I need to plow forward. Wish things could have been different between us but this is our life. Still a little hope but not much any more.
Had a good interaction with the wife today. At my daughters Veterans Day concert. We sat next to each other and asked how she was doing. She said not good. I asked if there was anything I could do for her and I'm concerned about her. She said she wished we had insurance so she could go see the doctor. I told her I would take care of it if she wanted, she declined.
During the program she seen the flags and mentioned that she still owes me one from a past birthday. I agreed and told her after a minute that owed her a good life( May be bad but I felt it needed to be said some time). During the program she put one of the poppy flowers around her ring finger and looked at me with a special look. She complimented me on how I looked. After the program we walked out and where leaving and I told her to take care and let me know if there is anything I could do. She said she just doesn't know what to do. I asked if she wanted to talk and she declined.
3kids: I can tell you're making a lot of efforts to control yourself around your wife. You're doing good, better than a while ago. Make sure you don't pursue. It's hard to do, but it means leaving her something incomplete. It's not giving up when she declines your help; it's not offering your help at all. She knows she just has to lift a finger to get it. Make her doubt a little, make her want you. It can't happen if you always offer. Good luck.
One of the proudest days of my life. My oldest has always been taught by me to be a leader never a follower. And he is going in the right direction. Today is WE DAY in Minny. Students get selected for being great leaders in there community and schools to go to this. My son is one of the lucky ones. He gets to hear great speakers from around the world, famous actors, and great national music groups. And I hope he remembers every little bit of it! It is a truly special thing. And he played it off like it was nothing special.
The wife did end up calling me last night. I validated probably the best I have every validated. She opened up so much to me it was incredible. I learnt where she is in life, how she's feeling and a ton of information. She misses me and our family life. But doesn't want to get hurt again. Every day is a struggle for here. Has anxiety attacks every day because of this whole situation. Doesn't feel right even when she has the kids because I am missing. She is upset that I am living a happy life. I didn't let her know how my life is just said it's as happy as it can be right now. She brought up how I went on a couple of dates right away after the separation. I explained why I did (hurt and feeling of being unwanted). She's feeling like she is just going around in one big circle always coming back to the same old questions. Of why and should I. She wants to be a family again but scared that it won't work. But can't handle this feeling of emptiness. She talked about mine and her changes. I didn't say to much through this whole convo except to validate. But I did say that I was sorry for hurting her and not listening to her. And explained the reason why is because I was failing as a husband and provider for my family. And that I was just pushing her farther away. That I would never go back to that same old person and my eyes are open now. Where she jumped in and said you where not failing, it was my screwed up family and this rotten house that did that. She asked nicely if she could come over and see the kids and I said sure( I knew she wouldn't because she was to upset). She later sent a text saying she couldn't come over. Here is her text and says a lot.
"I would love to come over and see the kids but I do not want to confuse them not let them see me sad. I think I'm going to put myself to bed early and hope for better days and choices. I thank you for trying to be there for me through all this when you don't have to be. I really appreciate it. I'm sorry I hurt you.
And I replied with-
"I forgave you along time ago. My only hope is that some day you will forgive me for all the pain I may have caused you. You truly are special wife, I hope you realize that. Goodnight.
Her reply-
"Thank you so much! Goodnight husband. Tell the kids I love them like crazy and can't wait to see them tomorrow. Good night family!!!!"
Now I know not to expectation. But this really does say a lot. For one reality is coming to a front for her. She sees that this pain won't go away. Told me she misses me and our family. She realized she is unhappy with out her whole family. This may have been her needing comfort but it also told me a lot. It told me that I'm going to be ok regardless of her choices. Because after the text, I barely gave it another thought. I enjoyed my kids. It tells me she is truly not happy with OM other wise she would not think about me or our family. I knew something was up yesterday when I seen her at the school. I'm just going to enjoy this day for my son, who I couldn't be more proud of right know!
Thank you!
Fantastic! Congratulations to you and your son. Gosh, I love to read good news around here.
I'm so confused but not really. It's difficult to say. I know how I should act and I'm doing it in a way. My question is this. When a WAW shows signs of maybe wanting it to work how can you tell?
This is what's going on. Had that talk with the wife two nights ago. It was a good convo and she really opened up and showed a ton of remorse and asked questions about the future. I worked late last night, went out had a cup of coffee with a friend and went home. When I got home the wife called I answer and she needed a outfit that I had for the daughter for school. The kids where little kids where sleeping, so she asked if I could bring it over. I him and ha and said ok. I bring the stuff over and some other stuff for the oldest for hunting this weekend. Grab some mail and say goodnight. She says good bye in a sad voice. And I asked if she was ok. She said no and asked if we could go back or has to much happen already. She said that we both have spent so much money and didn't know how it would look if we where to work it out to every one, on her behalf, like she messed up. I told her money comes and goes. Family are the only ones who matter in this world. Everyone else who cares. She gave me a smile. This is when I seen a guitar in the kitchen(she doesn't play). Before I got upset I asked if there was anything else. And she asked to smoke with me real quick and I said sure. She made a comment how we didn't have any spontiniouty in our marriage. That is when I told her I'm not looking for our old marriage, I'm looking for a new one. Where we can walk though life together and enjoy new and exciting things. She agreed and told me about her latest thing of zip lining. Finished up and told her I just wanted her to be happy and left.
Now today, she sent me a text telling me she broke a tooth last night after I left. Of course me being curious I asked which one. Then she told me which one and it had to be pulled. Then went into how much it costs and that we still owe for another dentist bill on the kids. And she was concerned about how much the pain killers would cost. So I called her because I wanted to find out how much was left on the kids bill. She couldn't talk mouth full of crap and painful. So we text about the bills and she didn't have any money for the pills and was all just to much to handle anymore every thing just keeps pilling up. She's super depressed and this isn't helping. I offered to pay some money on the kids bill, what I could. Then I offered to pay for the pills(no buddy should have to be in pain). She asked if at least could call and see how much they where, so I did. Turns out there cheap so she could afford them. She complained about her bill again and she has to by groceries for the kids (this I didn't offer to pay, big girl panties). She told me thank you for calling on the pills even though I don't have to do that stuff. Said your welcome and good bye.
I know no WAW is the same but if the person cares what other people think and how her peers see her. How do they ask to get back together. If they offer an olive branch do you offer back. Pulling your fingers back so you don't get hurt. Or do most of them come right out and say we should make this work.
I know no WAW is the same but if the person cares what other people think and how her peers see her. How do they ask to get back together. If they offer an olive branch do you offer back. Pulling your fingers back so you don't get hurt. Or do most of them come right out and say we should make this work.
I think what you need to consider is "why" she would want back. Do you really want her back based on what her peers think of her? B/c I promise you she has not done the "heart" work, if she uses finances or people for her reason to return. You would still have a WAW living under the same roof.
If she were to come to her senses (come out of the fog) and want to do the "right thing", then the two of you could get MC to help guide you in the reconciliation and piecing. What I mean by that is she may not experience the love feelings right away, but has turned from her waywardness. What you need to avoid, is taking her back and act as if nothing ever happened. I understand wanting a new M, however, she doesn't need to think it means to sweep everything under the rug and not work out the problems.
All her woes over the financial stress she's feeling is usually what the LBH hears about first. She gives her sad song about how tough things are for her. If she brings in the subject of getting back together......anywhere close to her money woes, watch out. Remember, she has to deal with the circumstances of her reality. She couldn't see all of this happening when she was wanting to leave the M. Now that it is hitting her some, she wants to feel the financial security the M offered.
I don't know what you call extending the olive branch, but I have seen others use that phrase with their WAW. Be careful. Be very, very careful. If you don't tread lightly, she will set you up for another big letdown. I just don't think they can emotionally bounce from OM's bed back into LBH's bed that easily. Go sloooooowly.
You said she "showed" a ton of remorse. Can you give more details? What she say?
The peers, what people would think of her because she bolstered about wanting out of the marriage to some of our friends. And now changing her mind would contradict that.
The remorse was that she misses me and our family. Said we should have tried harder to work on communication. Was upset that both of us threatened divorce but until one person actually did it, it hit home. Was sorry for hurting me. How it was so easy at the beginning of it and it didn't bother her. But now it is so hard and doesn't feel right. Sorry we didn't work harder on our marriage and relationship. There was probably more but I can't remember every detail. My only concern was she didn't mention the kids at all.
There is something up right now and I just can't figure her out. I went out with some friends last night after hunting and got a couple out texts and phone calls. That I didn't answer because I was having fun and didn't want to reck it. Turns out the oldest needed some more hunting stuff for this weekend with his grandpa. She asked if I could bring over the stuff and I told her no but you can come get it. She stayed for awhile and we talked. She's never been a very direct person but says little things that give you info. Sounds kinda like her and OM are not great(not really a family man). Maybe doesn't have some of the same interests as her. She made comments on how our furniture that she has would look nice in my home. She talked a little about her love language and what she was lacking in the marriage(she does not know about the book). I was dead on on her love language! She made a comment that I'm absolutely hot right now. That it's not every thing that is important. We laughed and joked about something's. And I let her know how great it was to see her smiling and laughing.
I don't know if she is coming out of the fog or just trying to keep me as an option. The way she talks she would want to do the work but is scared of it not working with us. I do really worry about her reasons if she would want to return. Is it because her relationship with OM if failing, or money issues, or she can't live with out her family, or wants a easy life of not working and going to school with less stress. Question for you. How does the love not return right away. Shouldn't I be looking for that. I mean my love has never left.
It looks like you're on the right track. Celebrate it. There will be good days and bad days. This one looks good to me.
You have to expect love to come back gradually. In that, love is a lot like trust. When you lose it, your run. Then you realize maybe you ran a little too far, that it's dark around here. You come back closer. Is it dangerous? No movement. Then closer, close enough for striking distance. No hurt. Let's get closer, it feels good. And then you realize it's a safe place, that you can trust again. After the kind of pain we have inflicted to our spouses over the years, we have to expect them to take a while to love us again, if they ever will. But in your case, it looks good today. Enjoy.
The peers, what people would think of her because she bolstered about wanting out of the marriage to some of our friends. And now changing her mind would contradict that.
If she has had a change of heart, she will be willing to eat crow. But if she is still keeping OM in her life, I think it is you she's keeping as her backup plan.
The remorse was that she misses me and our family.
Sorry, but that's not remorse.
Said we should have tried harder to work on communication. Was upset that both of us threatened divorce but until one person actually did it, it hit home.
Where is the "I"?
Was sorry for hurting me.
Okay, an apology that you had to get hurt. That is not the intent when a WAW leaves the M, to hurt the H. I told my H that also, but was not a bit remorseful.
How it was so easy at the beginning of it and it didn't bother her. But now it is so hard and doesn't feel right.
An admission....somewhat. Still not remorse.
Sorry we didn't work harder on our marriage and relationship.
Sounds kinda like her and OM are not great(not really a family man). Maybe doesn't have some of the same interests as her. She made comments on how our furniture that she has would look nice in my home. She talked a little about her love language and what she was lacking in the marriage(she does not know about the book). I was dead on on her love language! She made a comment that I'm absolutely hot right now. That it's not every thing that is important. We laughed and joked about something's. And I let her know how great it was to see her smiling and laughing.
I think it's a setup. But you sound as if you handled your part okay.
I don't know if she is coming out of the fog or just trying to keep me as an option. The way she talks she would want to do the work but is scared of it not working with us.
I find it hard to believe she's coming out of the fog while actively having an A. She may be having some doubts that the A will continue, and she's prepping option B.
Question for you. How does the love not return right away. Shouldn't I be looking for that. I mean my love has never left.
First of all, you are not in an A. I believe I referred to her loving feelings, which are affected before the BD and especially after she enters into an A. Her brain is flooded with the PEAs that keeps her addicted. Emotionally, her heart will belong to one man at a time. In order for her heart to really belong to you again, she will have to totally end any contact with OM, go through the withdrawal stage, the depression, and start to heal. However, she could make the right decision to end contact with OM, and go the rest while trying to mend things with you. I'm just saying it will take her some time to actually "feel" the loving stuff.
It sounds as if she's trying to make all the right noises at the moment. I think she faked a stab at showing remorse, and then flirted with you the last time......getting you prepped. Some women can be good actresses.
However, let me add this...I think you probably left out a lot, and I will give it the benefit of doubt and say you didn't quote what she said, and you may have used the plural pronouns instead of her. (When I asked where was the "I" statements in her remorseful talk.) I couldn't hear her or see her face. I don't know her. But I know women pretty good, especially WAW in an A. I know how they can set up the LBH to pull the rug out from under him. And like you said, she never mentioned the kids.
I think when she truly gets remorseful, you won't have as many doubts, but IDK. In my stitch, I never left the home. I never went and had a PA with OM. That's all I can say I never did.
I can't remember now exactly how long it took me, but I reached the point I actually prayed and asked God to help me feel it b/c I knew I couldn't heal until I did. My M never stood a chance without it. It finally came, and then I wanted to die from shame and regret of the damage I had done to our M, and most of all to my H. It took a long time to feel that we were getting anywhere close to normal again. One, my H refused to go to MC, and two, b/c I had to have time to work through all the withdrawal, depression, resentment, etc., etc. So, it
can start with just making the right decision to end the A. I know, b/c that's what I did, but the loving
feelings didn't follow for quite some time.
The good news is that she is younger than I was and so hopefully, it won't take as long.
I hope, I really hope she is beginning to see where she has messed up. Just go slowly and don't take her back too quickly before you know she has actually ended the A and no contacts are being made.
I get this question a lot in a text from the wife. And I try to very it up with out any detail.
Her text today- Do you work today?
I always wait a while.
Today's response was- What's up?
Her response- Nothing, just a question.
Is there a better way to be more mysterious?
That seems like a good answer, IMO. You may not be working, but you have always made plans, right?
Her text today- Do you work today?
I always wait a while.
Today's response was- What's up?
Her response- Nothing, just a question.
Is there a better way to be more mysterious?
Hi 3kids,
Unless the text has to do with the kids, why would you respond? Try not responding to her texts like this, until you are at a better point in the relationship. Does this make sense?
Thanks wet, I do every now and then. But you have to remember I have a depression/anxiety issue with my wife. Plus I'm not at the dark stage yet. That would be more going dark then anything. I'm at the less available stage of where I want to be. Going dark would push her more towards OM right now. I think OM is taking care of him self with there relationship(doesn't sound good).
Thanks Sandi!
Help!!! I need Sandi!!!!
All I can say is WOW! Let start off by saying that the wife has been trying to call me non stop from yesterday afternoon. I finally took her call this morning.
She cut ties with OM. She wants to do what's right. I'm so flooded with emotion right now it's unreal. She wants what's best for the kids and every thing. Now this fixes nothing between us. But she even told the kids there relationship with him is over. She wants to be happy and it's not there with him. She said she doesn't want to jump back with me either. She wants to figure out her happiness. She was calling yesterday to do some thing with me. There is a lot more but I can't put it into words right now.
How do I proceed??????
I not sure. But hope to be in your position one day. I think you try to keep things slow. Maybe a few dates etc. I really don't think you should move back in together right away. And try to keep kids out of it for now as well just in case and i'm guessing there will be a set back from what I have read. Good luck to you.
Great news 3kids. I echo what zed ^^^ said. Proceed cautiously and slowly.
I'm not sure either, but just like most things on here. Take a step back, breath, collect yourself. Remember, if its for real; its not a fleeting opportunity that you need to do everything perfectly. She will continue to try and work on her changes.
I'd be careful that this is just an emotional reaction to losing OM. However, it is good news. I would seek advice on here if a MC would be a good idea...Not for the R, but to make sure that things start to go smoothly with the kids. I'm not sure.
That's very good news! Let's celebrate the baby steps and this one's a big baby's. Getting the OM out of the picture is the first condition to a reconciliation (lucky you!). You're switching to a different phase. Nothing is won, and she still says she won't reconcile with you. Proceed cautiously, don't look needy, be available but not too much, etc. Have a look at DR again, you'll get instant advice.
That's good! It is a start in the right direction. As you said, ending the A is not an auto fix to the M issues.
Your emotions are high, with good reason. However, stay cool and calm. You need to continue to wait for her to initiate contact with you. Also, maybe show a little more warmth in your voice and be a little more friendly in your conversations/responses. Just do not overkill. If you aren't very careful, your excitement over the A ending will cause you to push for more way too quickly.......and it will be like pouring ice water on her.
She has not given you the green light on anything yet, right? So be careful that your actions do not indicate that you assume she will want to come back. You saw for yourself that she "will" pursue you. My advice is to let her continue to pursue a little longer. She doesn't need to feel smothered, and I am concerned that's exactly what you would do.
She did not tell the kids she was coming back home, or wanted to work things out with you. It bothers me that she's still looking for her happiness. Apparently, she still doesn't believe it is her H and kids.
The next several weeks will be tough for her, if she really stops contact with OM......and did she say she would, or that she just ended it? The cravings will kick in and she will want to make contact again. But since she has not committed to you or the M, you can't start telling her what she needs to do b/c it make you look like a controlling jerk.......when she didn't ask for advice or support. In fact, her freedom is still important to her.
So go about your business and keep GAL. Let her continue to pursue you. You will need to hear a lot more from her, but this is a great start. Did she really say she wanted to do the right thing, or we're you using my words.