Hello all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
My sitch-I have been struggling w/anger all of my life & it's costing me my family. I was left behind in Mexico by my family when I was 5 for several hours-you think I have abandonment issues? Compound that w/being sexually abused @8his by a circumvented and left to fend for myself for hours at a time from the age of 6. I was the middle child and the last one at practice to be picked up or had to walk home. So obviously I was angry at God for all this and blamed myself and felt unlockable. Fast forward years & I meet the girl of my dreams. She loved and her only goal was my happiness. That wasn't her responsibility but I let her take it on. Over the years I broke her spirit w/my critical nature and anger. I didn't plan it but I did it even though she never told me how bad I was hurting her. We have been together 15+ years married for 11. To hear her tell it it was all bad because she doesn't want to remember the good times and there were a lot! So last August she took a job in OR and her & the kids(s8 d4) moved out here w/out me. I stayed behind to sell the house and needed a job before we moved cause we couldn't 2 homes on 1 income. I would visit every 1 1/2 months. At home I was so depressed cause l missed them & felt like I asserting them down. Fast forward to May 2014. I get a job offer and start to feel hope. Begin to listen to God tell me that I need to be a better person and husband. Make the Decision to change and a miracle happens-God takes away the anger that controlled my life. I don't tell W as I want to show her not tell her. So after driving cross country in 2 days, the first day I'm here she says I can't do this anymore. Meaning us! Thing is I understand and I'm not mad at her-but to not even get a chance? I moved out Aug 1st and we've done some things as a family and even went out 1x just me & her (great time by the way). But she says she doesn't trust me and doesn't care about my changes. She's not having an affair-but I'm now the husband she always dreamed of. She's paid the retainer for a divorce atty and wants someday to have a normal relationship w/someone who will love her. And then the next minute she cryingbecause she's hurting me so bad. And saying the classic WAS quotes it's time to make decisions for me. I'm gonna do something for me. And then asking what time the concert we r going to soon is. And planning a family road trip in October. The only reason she has freedom now is that I'm showing her unconditional love and taking the kids so she can have alone time or go out w/her unmarried childless friends. What am I to do? I've lost 35 lbs since June,I'm in counseling,reading the Word, and going to church. All that & I just turned 40. I'm truly broken
I know that she still loves me, she's slipped and said it several times, just not enough to move forward with me. She's also said that she's still very attracted to me. And I guess a positive is that initially she said even if years down the road my changes were still there and I asked her out she would say no. But we have been out together just us since then. Our d behavior has really gone downhill since S w/her kicking, scratching, biting, & saying she hates W. She doesn't do that to me. At the same time, she has separation anxiety from my wife. Guess since I left she's afraid everyone else will too. W is oblivious or won't see this behavior for what it is. W has been planning this since February and is desperately clinging to her plan. Although she is thrown off by how I have reacted to it-nothing like the old me would have. Is it possible to gain trust back when they just don't want to? Help!!! I'm in a new state w/absolutely no support system. W did mention that I seem further ahead than her.
Bravo,
Sorry you are here. Have you read DR and/or DB? If not, get them and read them.
Have you seen a family L? It sounds scary, but you need to find one and talk to them.
"Is it possible to gain trust back when they just don't want to?"
Yes, but that doesn't mean you will in your case. You can control you. Make you the best person you can be. Ditch the anger. Be happy by owning your own happiness.
W seems to be noticing your changes. Will this get the M back? No idea. But the books will tell you, if you are getting positive results, keep doing it. Stick with your thought of showing her, not telling her, about these changes. And these changes are for you. You'll have them regardless of the outcome.
Thanks for the reply. Yes I've read DB. I've gotten rid of the anger. Actually did before I knew any of this. I don't mention any changes to her. But if she were really done, why does she watch me like a hawk. Every time she starts talking bout how she tried so hard, I ask if we can not talk bout the R as we'll end up blaming each other & being resentful. Told her, hey let's just have fun. She said you know that makes sense. Then I told her for what it's worth, I forgave her for the ways she hu rt me in our marriage. She looked away & quietly said thank you. BtW she threw her wedding ring in the fountain at the Bellagio. Despite the fact she says she's forgiven me. Counterintuitive as it seems I've found that I'm happiest when giving selflessly to her & the kids! Can u guess my 'LL? Hers is words of affirmation. I do that a lot but she has closed herself off to that. Oh well gonna continue. Unconditional love hurts but they are worth it.
I am sorry that you find yourself in our community, but you will get great support here. My advice to you is to speak to a divorce busting coach. You need someone who can help you focus on your marriage goals. Call me to discuss our program.
303-444-7004.
Well had kids last night. D was absolutely no problem for me to get up & ready. W reacted about working out and if had been to apply for my passport(one of my 180s is I want to travel & explore-she just got hers). She was gonna pick D up and planned to meet @gym to pick her up. She got times confused & I told her don't worry bout it. Take your time to workout and enjoy. She said that was kind and was very apologetic. I told her no problem at all, we all mix things up from time to time. I know that floored her. She called my phone a couple of times while I was working out. Took my D to lunch and while coming back the w asked if we wanted to meet for lunch. Told her we'd eaten but would meet her someplace. She had mentioned that she was interested in getting passports for the kids as well. I had already filled them out and had them ready for her, she was so surprised and even commented on how considerate it was. She asked if she & D could come w/ me to application place. She even mentioned how passports for the kids were a good idea if we wanted to take the kids on a trip. Had a good time but no ending hug. I had been getting hugs when she left every time until a couple of days ago, but I didn't mention the lack of it. She mentioned couple of days ago(same night she stopped the hugs) how much stress she was under-her grandad is in hospital,and me of course-& that the arty needs paperwork from me. I told her that's fine she can have it anytime. She hasn't mentioned it since then. She confirmed the Times for the babysitter for our concert Tuesday night-the concert we're going to. Interestingly enough, she was gonna suggest eating lunch at the place my D & I had just finished eating at. It's not a regular restaurant we eat at, we've only been there once. And my W sent me in her apt for something and said I'd love the air fresheners she bought that morning. It was the same one I bought that morning while at the store w/D. Weird!
I would absolutely love to get feedback from WAS poised. And to answer an unspoken question, no the changes are for me. But they certainly don't have to be an either/or. That's part of my frustration w/W. She sees only 2 options: miserable marriage or freedom. I thought only the Sith deal in absolutes(yes a StAr Wars reference). Do WAS ever begin to remember good times on their own?
My 180s;
Affirming words
You ought to or should erased from my vocab
Replaced by what do u think or would you consider or what can I do to help
Active in kids lives-soccer practice,pick up from school, help with homework
No words spoken in anger to W or kids
Open to new experiences-food,biking,trying new beers/wine,expressing interest in travel
Rebuilding my relationship w/God and others I felt abandoned by
Being more positive smiling more
help anyone, anyone.
Bueller, Bueller?
so tonight was interesting. me and the W went to a concert together (actually we met there). she looked great!! well we had an ok time and drank a little bit. she ended up getting pretty drunk (it hits her all of a sudden and she hides it well). she ends up sobbing about all the things that i did wrong while in my arms. i validated all her feelings (cause she's right) and held her. she was drunk enough that we left the venue. even though i shouldn't have, i told her i loved her. that was a 180 for me because i never let her know that and that was her issue with me-she never felt loved enough. with the lack of love and my cruel words (unknowing) it broke her spirit. she actually took responsibility for her part by saying she kept her fears and pain from me and it was wrong. during the whole exchange, i never begged, pled, or cried. i just stroked her face and let her know that i was there for her. she kept crying that it was unfair, where was this person when she needed him. i let her know that i was broken too and i have found my way out of the darkness. she admitted that she drug her father, grandfather, and grandmother issues into our marriage and that wasn't right to me either. she did say that she was nervous about going with me tonight and being around me. which is weird because i had let her know that i was going and she was welcome to come if she wanted to. she said that she couldn't commit to it. i said that's fine i'm going anyway. the next day she brought up the subject and said if i was still going she would love to go. anyways, she was drunk so i held her hair by her car while she puked, and gave her the shirt off my back to wipe her face with-no kidding. but i was glad to do it because i had no expectations for anything. i could've kissed her several times, yes she gave me the look, but i reminded her that i would not do that until she asks me too and i will not take advantage of her and i will respect her boundaries. i drove her to my apt and carried her inside and held her hair again while she puked. she began to shiver and i asked if she would like me to hold her and she said yes as long as you don't have any expectations. it was nice to be tender with her. she did say that she is having a hard time with her plans to divorce me but she is still moving forward. i didn't cry or beg for another chance, just let her know i understood. it was so important for her to know that she thinks i'm amazing now while she belittled herself. man did i and others hurt her. she actually said that she was glad that she let go of a bunch of the stuff she relayed to me tonight as she's been carrying it around inside her. i let her know that i would like to see her again but it would be up to her as i'm gonna respect her need for space. looks like i'm gonna work on going modified dark (with two kids). she did mention that she's tired of kids asking her why she wants to divorce daddy. i let her know that it was wearing on me too. my D(4) is always asking me to tell her the story of how i met momma. so i drove her to her apt and relieved the sitter. after sitter left, i carried W inside and tucked her into bed. i affirmed her inside and out beauty and kissed her forhead and left. let the swinging 2x4's begin. it's like its a race, is she gonna rethink her decision or will D cross the line first. i'm pretty sure D will win as she's scheduled the required parenting classes.i did find it interesting that when i left she said, "i'm so sorry i can't give you what you need right now". thoughts, opinions?
so this morning she took me to get my car. we had a discussion in the car on the way there. she let me know she remembered our talk from last night. she cried and apologized for her part in the problems of our marriage but it was over. the papers are going to be delivered this Friday. she held my hand and told me she loved me but had to start over. she admitted that i am a different person now and she is proud of me. i didn't invest in the conversation just listened for her hidden needs.i realized that i have done all i can and she has to get better on her own. i'm not giving up, mind you, just need to focus on me and detach. man it sux though. my C believes that everything she is doing right now is a test and i should step back and let her own this decision. W thinks that as soon as D is complete, all her problems will melt away. but when the S*** hits the fan, and her single, childless friends let her down, that is when reality will set in. it's just really hard to do the DB plan all the way because i have no support system and i work nights. HELP!
so i was told by the W that the papers will be delivered today between 3-5p. i feel as if i'm tying the knot on my own noose! what happened to committment? oh yeah, and while this is going on, she is gonna pay a babysitter so she can go out with one of her single friends to dinner (which will of course involve drinking). she even mentioned that all her new friends drink a good bit and she needs to "get better" at knowing the line for herself. and she's suddenly decided to put a large add on to her small tattoo. at some point she's gonna have a moment of reflection. yet i feel compelled to be there for her and the kids as when she dropped the bomb the first words she said was that i wasn't there for her and the kids. i'm in hell!!!!!!
mr. bond, sandy 2, 25 years, other vets, i would desperately love some guidance. and yes, i've ordered DR and it should be here early monday.
Hey bravo, you are totally normal for feeling like you're in hell. It is the worst thing I've ever been through, hands down. I'm no vet, but I have learned a lot so far. Have you read Sandi's 37 rules? They're posted at the top of this message board. I would read them everyday.
In DR you will eventually read about the last resort technique (referred to here as LRT). This applies to people like you and me whose spouses have left, want a divorce, or anything else that is similar. Basically, they don't want to work on things right now. It consists of 180's, detach, GAL (get a life) and working in YOU since you cannot control or change her. The 180 is about doing to opposite of what comes natural when this hits. It is similar to Sandi's 37, but has some additional info:
The 180
1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.
4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.
5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.
7. Don’t ask for reassurances.
8. Don’t buy or give gifts.
9. Don’t schedule dates together.
10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!
15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!
17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!
21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”
32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.
Detach/GAL goes along with 180. It stops your downward spiral of constantly obsessing about your WAW, shows you that YOU will be okay with or without them. If you come off as needy or desperate, you will be even less attractive than you already are to them. It also allows you to start focusing on things you can change about you, and it frees up your energy to start working in those changes.
You also need to learn about Love Languages and Emotional Needs. So I'd also get the books 5 Languages of Love and something like His Needs, Her Needs.
thanks card.
i have read 5LL and If He Only Knew, Tough Love, I Love But, and a host of others. i've learned alot about the ways i let her down and the ways i could've made her feel loved. it just feels like its too late. i just got the papers. i feel broken. she said that she's very sorry she just lost herself and when she needed me to be there, she felt that i didn't care and she's moving on.
she did reiterate that she carries her own guilt for her part in the loss of our marriage but she's done.
i'm familiar with the LRT but its hard because of the kids and that was part of my problem, i would withdraw from her and wasn't there for her and the kids.
i told her i felt bad for her as she won't find anyone like me. she said she already found someone-herself-and she had no interest in any of that right now. just struggling to cope with this right now. my friends and family are 2500 miles away, and i work nights so i haven't really had an opportunity to GAL, and every waking moment i'm with my kids as i have to be the father i should have been and by doing that it shows her i'm becoming a better me. it just feels so final even though she cries at the thought of hurting me. she did say that she was so sorry she couldn't be what i wanted right now. feel like my hopes and dreams are now a steaming pile of ashes
What Card has said is right Bravo.. The GAL, 180's, Sandi's rules and detaching are the way to go.. Things do get better, so stay strong!!..
thanks for the encouragement LMW. i feel as if i've been in a bad dream since i've been here with no apparent end in sight. i just don't get what the rush is for-and no-there is no OM. just resentment for things she felt she missed out on because she was 18 when we got together. her C even said that she has PTSD from our relationship-WTF. all i can tell her is that i didn't know how bad our arguments affected her and that i'm so sorry. i do know that D4 prays every night for her mommy and daddy to stay togethe and love. yeah that doesn't break my heart
so to review:
i gave my w PTSD
she wants a divorce
has been planning it since Feb
she still loves me
hears the things i said to hurt her when she sees me
but still wants to do things alone with me(not sexual)
hangs out with a bunch of single bar hoppers at times
says i'm an amazing person now and perfect dad
doesn't want to give me another chance
suggested and planned a family vacay in mid-Oct
cries at the thought of hurting me
said "part of her" really wants a divorce
confused as me yet?
it's like she wants to blow up the marriage and see what happens next-as if she wants to see if i'll maintain who i am now. talk about a mind F***. she has always had a problem with reflecting those around her and she is not getting wise and Godly counsel from anyone in her circle. but what can i expect-this is the Rose City
any WAW out there that can offer any insight?
oh yeah,
and she's still very attracted to me
and all of a sudden she wants to get larger addition to her small tattoo
conflicted about spending time alone with her but if she initiates it shouldn't i do it?
i would like the opportunity to get to know the parts of her that she kept from me and she said that she would like for us to get to know each other. she said that she kept those parts from me cause she was afraid of my reaction or i wouldn't care so that would show her that i'm not necessarily who she assumed i was.
Bravo61
I can totally relate. H paid the retainer fee for an attorney today. I figure by the end of the month he will get his way. I want nothing more for the light to go on and he realizes what he is walking away from. I have had no contact with H. BD through text messages. Now I feel like what's the point. H lives in another state and he is desperately searching for my replacement. This is so beyond messed up...
She is deep in her fog. She will eventually get out of it. What she does at that point is not up to you, but what she does IF she considers you with a clear(er) head you CAN impact. And you can do that with the LRT. Improve yourself and learn to be independently happy.
Keep reading through threads here and you will find others who struggled at first to GAL. Not all GAL has to be going out on the town. Could be a new hobby you've never considered (painting? Wood working? Anything). And your kids could be part of your GAL. It doesn't have to be a return to bachelorhood. Pick up hiking, family time at the gym, volunteering with them. The are no rules to GAL other than its something you can fit into your schedule and makes you happier/detached. GAL should consist of things you would do with or without her, because it is for you, not her.
Do you exercise? If you don't, I would highly recommend pursuing some type of regular (4-6 days per week) physical activity. Great if you can spend an hour at the gym a day. But even a morning walk will improve you. Still, the more intense, the better. And the biggest improvement would be mental, not physical.
To me, 5LL, etc are great when you have a fighting chance with your spouse. When they are in the process of or have already walked out, LRT is the gospel. Pursue LRT with a vengeance. It feels like giving up at first, then it feels like it doesn't do anything for you. But give it time and it will turn your life around. I went from suicidal (for the first time in my life) to being thrilled about the possibilities of the future in a matter of 2 months of LRT. My fractured R with WAW has improved somewhat, too. I am no less in love with her and am still ready to fight for our M with her if she chooses, but I'm not afraid of her leaving me, which would be the biggest mistake of her life.
wow card, our timelines are very similar. sep on 8/1/14 and same day of BD (mine was at 11:23 am). what's your take on her initiating plans with me? i would love to have positive interactions to replace the negatives that run in her mind like the reel to a horror show. every time we've done it we've had a good time, smiled and laughed. i certainly don't go into those times with any expectations and no pressure. no r talk from me and try to gently redirect it when she brings it up (hey let's just have a good time). i feel as if i'm in a fog. getting those papers has really messed me up! i knew they were coming but to actually have them in my hand-man. it's like someone tells you a family member dies is one thing, but to see the body really brings it home. i guess after she threw the wedding ring into the fountain i should've been deadened to things like this. her peanut gallery of chickenheads certainly aren't helping esp since i've not met a single one of the ones up here. i just hear her saying over and over in my head like a skipping record "it's time i made a decision for me, i don't want to lose myself againg". i'm sorry but she's not gonna find someone else like me here or anywhere! i've lost 35 lbs, she finds me attractive, pretty witty (hah), smart, thoughtful, generous, loving, the perfect father (her words), an amazing person (again her words), a Godly man, patient (lost the anger that controlled me for years), selfless, and i know the worst things about her and love her regardless. oh and women love a man in uniform!
so now i get to pay attys for a divorce i don't want for decisions that she made that will hurt her, the kids, and me. this is not right. i've admitted and owned every mistake i've made in the 15 years we've been together but now that i've changed for the better (starting before the drop) that doesn't warrant a time frame for her to at least think about if its real before imploding our family. for freedom that i always encouraged her to have!!! do WAW ever come to their senses or does it become a pride and stubborness deal with them? i moved into an apt across the street from them so i could be there when they need me. it costs me half of my bring home and the parenting plan requires me to pay over 800 a month in child support. that would leave me around 600 dollars to pay for groceries, gym, other bills, gas. and the kicker, she makes DOUBLE what i make. i just feel really beaten down right now. i miss my family and my wife. she still loves me she's just afraid and thinks that a divorce will solve all her problems. the sad thing is, she's smarter than that. she wants to do it all herself and not need anybody. meanwhile, she'll call me to watch the kids so she can run some errands. 1 thing she is doing by herself is imploding a marriage without any thoughts of herself. it will be a wakeup when the D goes through and she looks around and doesn't have me to blame for her unhappiness. and those single friends won't be there when she needs them. they never are as all parents know.
Saw the W this am. She called to ask for help with our D who got sick during the night. Immediately went over and she started talking bout the papers. She apologized and said that she wishes that we were who we are now through our marriage. She thinks I'm special and wants me to get to know her. It seems as if she really wants to get to know & be able to trust in who I am now. She wants to share with me who's she is and all the things she was afraid to let out when we were together. I let her know I was amenable to that but it has to be on her timeline because I don't trust her enough to reach out. Several times she looked into my eyes like she used to. She gave me a big hug told me I'm special and left to go to work. Any WWW out there with insight? There was no crying, begging, pleading, or acting hurt on my part.
so took the kids to S8 soccer game. W met us there from work. hugged me upon arrival. after the game she invited me to lunch as a family. small talk at game and lunch. on the way to lunch (drove separately) S told me he didn't want the D to happen and he wants his family back together. held D so W could eat in peace (D still a little under the weather and tired). was pleasant to W and helped put D in her seat and hugged W when she left. she was interested in coming to my place to watch football game as a family, but D really wanted to go to her place and lay on the couch. W also threw out the suggestion of us (alone) doing something later in the week. i told her if she came up with something i would consider it. S came to my palce to watch the game. on the way to my place, S asked me if i wanted a divorce, told him he knew the answer to that. he said that i'm as nice as she used to be and she is acting like i used to. S thinks she has been brainwashed and wants his family back. this is all BS. why would you leave when you are finally getting the spouse you always wanted?
Bravo, I see way too many parallels between your sitch and mine to be objective at the moment. You are now officially in my prayers. I'll re-read your thread and if I come up with anything actually helpful, I'll let you know.
Investigate a Pro Se attorney and a mediated divorce. If you 2 aren't in conflict, it's much cheaper and you will be showing the W that you are taking the sitch seriously. Know your state law. She shouldn't be able to take more than 25% of your net for two kids most places, and if she out-earns you, you might be eligible for spousal support yourself. LEARN. These are just examples and I am NOT an attorney.
Shake,
tell me bout your sitch. my wife really likes who i am just cant get past the resentment she held in so long. she's deathly afraid of the "old me" and making herself vulnerable to that again. i get that, but to not even wait and see is the tough thing. i can't help but wonder if even this D is a test. you don't test those that you have no interest in. my C is in complete agreement. just left her apt where i was playing in a "pig pile" on the floor with my kids. my c really thinks that it will take time for her to truly believe that this is who i am now, and of course she will have to truly forgive first. problem is she has to forgive herself too. she chose to lose herself and is afraid being with me will cause her to make the same choice. the child support was a wrong number as she was guessing at my gross monthly income and was off by a lot. she wants to go with me to have her atty adjust it which will cut it down by about 250. man i love her, i wish i could hate her! as proof that my anger does not control me anymore, since all this happened i haven't raised my voice in anger to her or really anyone 1 time. i'm not even mad at her, i get it. but she's wrong and this is wrong. love is a choice and i choose to love her. i would never have done this to her and she knows it. that's why she is struggling with her guilt of hurting me.
Bravo. Getting ready for church now, but I will get back to you later. Yours is at least willing to admit that the changes in you are worth noticing. I never had the anger issues, but check my threads (click on my name at the left, look for "Posts" and choose "This is terrifying..." to follow my path.) I was belittling and resentful at the situations her past caused us. Now that I am on a much better track - something that began happening 2 years ago - she looked around, decided she didn't love me anymore, tried to reignite on her own (she says) and that failed. I got the BD as a surprise.
I also discovered an EA that was possibly a PA as well, about a week ago.
Hang in there.
worked for 14 hrs yesterday and got in bed to sleep. was up in a what felt like a panic attack less than 4 hrs later. literally felt like the walls were closing in. haven't felt that hopeless since the 1st night in the apt. all i keep coming back to is why? why would this person who has been my partner for 15 yrs not tell me of her pain? why would she not give me a chance? i just feel like she is losing herself while proclaiming she's "finding herself". it's like she's rushing through this D because she doesn't want to weaken. oh yeah, her best friend back home is in law school and was giving her advice while in a relationship marked w/infidelity. her former husband was a meth addict-and she's taking advice from her because she "gets her". wtf is up with the acceptance of the hollywood notion that your spouse is supposed to "get you"? how bout the man that is willing to put in the effort and humble himself to tell you he doesn't understand but wants to. i feel so lost right now. can any WAW offer any insight? i'm feeling kinda desperate right now and alone. thanks
Hi bravo, I'm not a vet but I can tell you that I've been where you are, with the nightmares, can't sleep, and my thoughts fixated on my W. The "why" question is the toughest one, isn't it? Do you think that it can ever be answered satisfactorily? Do you think there is a clear enough answer that would help you? It's tough because we are guys and we want to get our head around a problem so that we can "fix" it, right?
But I will tell you what everyone else here tells me - keep the focus on you. Protect yourself. GAL, and detach. The detaching will help you so that you don't think about the "why" question as much. And hopefully help you get your mind off of W as well. Stay strong.
bravo, the one thing that brings me down from the "why did she not tell me anything was wrong? why did she make this decision so suddenly?" questions is the fact that SO many people have been through and are going through the same thing. That acknowledgement gives me my sanity back, kills my "terminal uniqueness" and also kills any anger I might be starting to build for WAW.
The timing of our sitches are nearly identical. I would actually say the bomb was "deployed" on 6/2/14 (I knew something was seriously wrong) but it didn't hit until 6/3/14, around 5:00 or 6:00 pm (she told me ILYBNILWY, first mention of possible S). But our sitch is a little more "settled" in S only. We are cordial and have had a few laughs, etc, but no D talk like you and also no admission of attraction to me like your WAW. As long as you don't feel like you're being played, and especially if you don't think there is OM in the picture, I would try to capitalize on every interaction with her. Eliminate your Love Busters, try to speak in her LL to the extent of your knowledge, focus on her ENs. When not with her, GAL, 180 and detach. Obviously none of those are new suggestions for you, but they are the best plan, so it should be mentioned again.
And for some additional encouragement, I've seen several vets or longer-term posters here who have "D papers filed" in their history but have then went on to "D on hold", piecing and/or full reconciliation. Papers are not the end. Even a finalized D is not the end for many people. So, in the words of MWD, "Don't give up, no matter how dark it gets!"
Appreciate the encouragement Card. And for posting Wet. I am proud that I don't really have to think bout what words could I say that are uplifting to W. It's just scary because she has actually said that she will hold things in and when she's done, she's done. But I point blank stated that I had a hard time believing that she really wants a D and that she is doing it for protection. She said "part of me wants to". I made a point of not jumping on that statement. I attempt to give her words of affirmation every time we talk. Something as simple as "u look really pretty in that shirt", "have you lost weight?", "smart choice of restaurant", or "hey I'm really impressed with the job you do at work. I could never take care of /save babies like you can. I'm proud of you". Of course she downplays those comments and I say "hey don't minimize my opinion ok". I guess I want to be able to point to something, be it behavior or statement, that would improve belief that there's a chance to turn this around. I am curious of the difference in genders so far as Reconciliation numbers. Ladies speak up please. Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna give up regardless. I know that she has changes she would need to make for us to be together-let my happiness be my concern, not tie her happiness to mine, speak with clarity & calmness regarding her emotional needs, don't hold onto anger, have defined expressed boundaries & hold me accountable.
It's tough for me because I've reached so many of my goals in regards to changes,it's just maintenance at this point.
I've learned so much bout myself and I'm actually very proud of the person I've become. But she's the person I want to share it with. I told her once "I'm an imperfect man, but I'm never gonna stop working to be better". I miss my wife, my lover, my friend, my partner. What we could have could be amazing if ny Sweet Girl would show me Grace. Sigh...
One of my biggest struggles is to try & keep from resenting her. One of my last trips in May, I was kissing her & something felt "off". I pulled back, looked at her and asked if we were all right cause it seemed as if there was a distance there. She smiled and said, no we're good. Argh!!!!!!
You see, I've always wanted to know everything about her. I would always ask to know things like favorite food, color, song, movie, childhood memories, Disney memories, all things that made her so special to me. And to now here her say that she kept so many things & feelings from me has broken me inside.
My H was the same -- kept everything inside. I actually pity the WAS because they are incapable of communicating. I know for a fact that if I were having the same feelings that he had been having I would have at least tried to talk to him about it and work together on a solution instead of just running for the hills -- especially since a child is involved. I know that I'm able to commit to working through things if they can be worked on. And that is a skill I will take to my next relationship. Hopefully my next partner will be more worthy, and I'll have a chance to put my new-found knowledge that I've gained through this experience into use for a better relationship all around.
Ahoy
These WAS are all about revisionist history. In their minds they did "everything"to tell us they were hurting. Standing in front of me screaming and making personal attacks is not the same as calmly sitting me down & saying "it really hurt me when u said ir did x, y, z. It makes me question your love for me and if it continues I don't know if I can be with you". That phrase not said in anger woul d make anybody sit up and take notice. I can't see myself dating. In some ways I feek like I had my shot. I meant it when I said it was forever. Im gonna continue to do the right thing by being their for her. Just like we can't control their actions they can't control ours. I will be able to look myself in the mirror and know I've done the right thing. Just wish I'dve done it all along:'(
bravo, you don't know what the future holds. Try not to think in blanket statements in regards to your future (i.e. dating, or being with or without your wife). The truth is that none of us knows what the future brings. Allow yourself to be surprised -- maybe even pleasantly so. If you're happy with yourself then it doesn't matter what happens anyway. You are all you ever need. BUT when you reach that point, expect that others will find that attractive in you, and you may find yourself in a new relationship. It does happen, even though it's not something to even bother focusing on right now.
BTW, I have been asking a lot of questions of friends of mine whose parents divorced. The one thing that I've heard that gave me pause is that one friend said that she really wished her mother (who was a LBS) had moved on and had a life with someone else. My friend felt a lot of responsibility for her mother's happiness as a response. Consider that, in the long run, having a new relationship (whether with spouse or someone new) might not just be good for you but also for your children.
Of course, you hear the awful step-parent stories too, so maybe it's a no-win situation.
Bottom line: make yourself happy, but keep an open mind and don't try to predict the future.
Need to vent.
So W works 3 12hr shifts a week. She just took another job and will work 2 24hr shifts a month. Who do u think is gonna be suffering for her decisions, me and the kids. She loves work, it validates her as a person. I get that. But when I can't watch them baby sitters will be. And she'll be getting babysitters to watch them so she can go out with her heathen friends. She says that the kids r the most precious things in the world to her yet she is unconcerned bout what divorce will do to them. She doesn't trust her heart w/me but she will her kids. Spoke to her last night, strictly business bout the kids. I was pleasant but not pushy. I'm gonna respect her space and she mentioned that she would like me to get to know her but I'm gonna let her push that. So I'm working another 14 hr shift so I can save up comp time to watch the kids overnight (she was stressed bout this) and then going to pick up D from babysitter and have her all day until S soccer practice at which point I'll h we l.p. coach his team. She said be careful don't overextend yourself. What I wanted to say was what do you care, I'm unpaid help. What I said was being there for my family will sustain me. Oh and I get to meet w/her arty to show him how the screwed up the child support calculation. All this when per her own words "part of me wants to get divorced". And don't forget she is nervous to spend time w/ me alone but readily accepts invites. And even tells me the day after an invite was extended (I told her I was going regardless and she could let me know later) she would like to go. She's scared she's gonna change her mind bout all this and her friends are egging her on. UN f*ing believable!! I really believe her breaking point is gonna come at some point. Oh yeah, her grandad is in poor health too. Clear as mud to y'all? So in the past 48 hrs I Will have taken care of a sick kid, washed puke sheets at her apt, worked 28 hrs, coached soccer, slept for 5 hrs, and she believes I'm not there for her. It hurts but I knew it would be like this. Loving unconditionally is its own reward, besides she did it for years and my family is worth it! Even though she is kicking me out of the family.
I don't know Card I'm pretty special. In the past 4 months let me review my life:
Drove cross country in two days to be w/my family;
During the drive, realize God has been speaking to m e to be a better person, husband, father;
Make decision to not tell W, gonna show her;
Kiss her sleeping head when I get there and tell her I'm never leaving her side again;
Next day she drops bomb on me;
Start new job where at any time if I fail a test I'm fired;
I know no one here & have no support system;
Start counseling;
Job itself has dangerous aspects (law enforcement);
Make numerous positive life changes(see previous posts);
Told by her I'm a perfect father and amazing person;
But that doesn't matter;
Move out;
Told by her that part of her wants a D(only part-ETC);
Reminded by her that she loves me and sex was great;
Served D papers by off duty deputy I've met.
Legendary!!! And unfortunately all true
oh yeah, and in the middle of all that, i turned 40!
so the W just left here from picking up D. she had orientation for her second job and i was making small talk with her bout it (this was after she mentioned she had spoken to her atty bout the revisions in the filing) and she seemed down. i asked if she liked it and would be happy there. her response "it's hard to picture myself being happy anywhere right now, but it'll get better". i smiled and told her i understand and that garnered a small sad smile from her. i told her hey it'll get better, i believe in you (validation and words of affirmation). walked them to the car and got a hug and more sad smiles. i kept it together and smiled often. on a positive note, D was ecstatic to see me this am. she said "daddy i missed you yesterday and i cried". i took this worth a grain of salt because she loves her "stories". i told W that D asked about her all day. W said that D really missed me yesterday and asked about me all day too. will see them again at soccer practice in about an hour. man this sux, she's miserable with this, i am too, and the kids are too. but she's being prideful and stubborn and clinging to the hurt to protect herself from a man that no longer exists. why the constant tests but try to rush this process through? really down, but don't worry, i'm not gonna show it.
just saw the W at soccer practice. D wanted to go to the playground for a minute and W invited me, even asked if i thought the bench was big enough for both of us (sounds like an invite to me-at least as close as i'll get from her). we had nice small talk. she mentioned that she had asked atty to adjust the wording to make it joint legal custody because i explained that i would defer to her in most matters but just want to feel as if my opinion mattered. she said that at times in the past i didn't seem to respect her opinion. i validated and agreed with her view of that. she said that she has seen that given her upbringing, she had a high tolerance for not speaking up and taking things she never should have. she admitted that she pushed it down deep inside until it explodes. i admitted my part in that as i never knew what boundaries were. she shared stuff from her work and said that we need to get together to start planning for the upcoming vacation. told her to let me know and i'd try to find a time to schedule that (that's me being mysterious and unavailable-i'm not good at it but trying). got the kids in the car and she waited for me so she could hug me. hugged her and tickled her like i did my D. she laughed and jokingly said i'll stab you with my keys (while laughing and smiling). she reached out and gave me another hug while saying "we had a good night, huh". didn't say anything just smiled. couple times earlier she was kinda snappy towards me. i calmly said hey i get this is important to you but please don't snap at me, we're on the same team. she quickly apologized and admitted that she comes across that aggressive as she's still learning to set boundaries with everyone and it's not natural to her. told her i could accept that and appreciate her work toward that and said i could already see a difference. man i still love her. while we were on the bench, she put her leg under her so she could turn and face me on the bench while we talked. what's crazy is that every time we are together we have a good time and she usually does a temperature check at some point (her comment bout the good night). frustrating seeing a train wreck coming but she won't get off the track.argh!!!
funny thing happened at practice that i didn't consider till after. S got into a tussle with another boy. he was upset and i calmed him down. i explained how the other boy might have perceived his (S) actions based off prior experience. explained that it may not be the case but may be a reason other boy reacted the way he did. told S he needed to apologize, he did. the other boy refused to acknowledge S and he got upset. got down on one knee and explained to him, as long as he accepts his responsiblity in the problem and was sincere in his apology, he has done all he could do and can hold his head high cause he did the right thing. explained that he could not make the other person forgive him but he needed to move on and forgive the other boy as they are teamates. W was standing behind me and heard the whole exchange. didn't think at the time how much that applies to our sitch. just kinda one of those weird moments that happen from time to time.
forgot to mention that she invited me to go to the pumpkin patch later this month. told to let me know and if i was free i was in. who am i kidding, i'll make myself free but won't let her know that.
struggling tonight. just kinda feel like i have been looking for positives that aren't really there. she does talk about her work and unlike before, i listen, make eye contact, and point out the good things or decisions she makes when she relays her day. just kinda feel like she's dug in her heels in spite of prior admissions that she still struggles with this and "part" of her wants a divorce. just feel kinda lost. any WAW out there that actually came back that would PLEASE give me some insight? i'm not gonna give up just wondering if there was something in particular that made y'all really stand up and notice the LBS. the funny thing is, i started to make changes in myself before the BD. it's not like my changes were only to win her back. am i seeing positives where there really aren't any? why all the tests? down in the dumps but NOT giving up.
I will share one firsthand story of a former WAW I met at church. They were S for almost a year and I believe her mother fell ill. Her H had been working on himself, but she assumed he'd moved on. But he supported her like crazy (what she would accept) when she found out. She realized he really did love her. They are slowly piecing things back together.
Of course that is their story. As of right now it doesn't really apply to mine. Not sure about you, but you were asking for a former WAW testimony. That's the best I can do seeing that I'm the exact opposite (LBH) hehe
Hang in there, friend. I know it is dark for you right now but don't give up. Don't give up on your M, but especially don't give up on yourself. If you don't find yourself, find a way to be independtly happy, and find a way to work on yourself, you probably have even less of a chance to save your M, too.
I was reading through some older threads earlier and found a little gold mine from 25yearmlc. Follow the link below, then scroll down to her post on Detachment from 7/29/14 at 8:43 pm. If the time stamps are messed up, it is about the 32nd post from the top. Well worth your time
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...658#Post2470658
Bravo. I intend to ask a lot of WAW questions of my DB coach next Monday. I'll try to record the answers as best I can. I imagine that seeing you get it right with your kids will be a primary help. But, yeah, there don't seem to be a lot of successes round here these days w/ WAW. Are we LBH so unforgiveable?
Bravo,
You need a big bravo for hanging in there .
Reading this thread gives me hope that if I hang in there things may change for the better.
South
I really can't thank you guys enough for being there for me in this low spot. It is such a terrible feeling. Even though I know it will pass, it's hard to move through it.
25 -- I want to answer some of the questions you posed. Financially, for the time being, I am fine. I make almost as much as H (this is the first year he makes more than me, ironically). But I'm on contract without benefits, and self-employed so my tax rate is higher. I should be fine, unless I have to have further surgeries that affect my ability to work, but in that case I would have much larger problems. I just can't worry about that right now, and I don't have much confidence that H would take care of me if that were to happen.
Although I'm revealing my twisted emotional guts on this forum, I show my H none of this agony. I am showing only PMA and keeping the road home smooth. I'm not trying to alienate friends or family, I'm helping him by keeping D extra days when he asks. I'm being friendly and not making demands. That's about all I can do.
I know I can forgive him, but I don't know about trust. I'm not sure I will ever trust him again. That gives me pause when I think about the possibility of reconciling. I guess I'll just have to see how I feel if and when we get there. But I don't think I should count on him wanting to reconcile.
I do want to model peace of mind and perseverance to my D14 as much as possible. I was not able to do that on Monday. I need to make that my focus.
AND also the terrific advice that Maybell shared -- SAVE ME. That is priceless.
I have been dark with him, except to respond. Maybe I need to go darker and start declining invitations, but I don't want him to think that I am done on my end. I guess he could ask, but he never asks or shares anything.
Next week is sign-up time for health insurance through his work, and he hasn't told me whether or not he's ditching me, as he said he would. I need to know because I need to sign up for my own if not, but my own will be expensive because they factor in our combined incomes, even though we are separated. I keep telling myself "it's only money, and it's worth my peace of mind" but I have to say that this is one thing that makes me feel vulnerable.
While I will be keeping D14 next week during "his time", he will be traipsing around with probable OW and dropping me from his insurance. I've done nothing but help him and be supportive of him throughout this whole crazy process because that's what I'd want him to do for me if I were in his shoes. But I do have a self-preservation instinct as well. I guess I'm in a vulnerable position where he could screw me over, but then he'll have to live with his conscience and the consequences.
I'm feeling a bit more peaceful today, but still struggling. I'm hiking with a friend this morning, then having lunch with two of my girl friends. I am going to try really hard not to just talk about my own situation the whole time. It is HARD not to. I need to share if asked, but then focus on my friends and their lives. I need to get out of my head, and I don't want to become a self-centered jerk like my H.
Thank you all again for the love & support. I wish I could hug you all. Why are there not meetups for people in DB?
Bravo, you should also find the user Thorton (might be spelled Thornton). Check out his sitch from earlier in the summer. He had a WAW (may have been GF, but I digress) for a few weeks. He went totally dark, gave her space. Eventually she started cracking the door open, and the last thing we knew here, they were piecing. It's not all hopeless for LBH's recently!
And the other thing I'll note is he timeline of some of the vets who had WAW and eventually reconciled. They were S for a year or more. One guy was S for almost 2 years. Also, I have seen people on here who eventually reconciled after papers were served. And although I haven't seen it on here, many people remarry after D.
So don't lose hope! But also don't forget the most important thing right now: yourself, your 180's, and your independent happiness. Focus on those most of the time. Don't think you will "miss a sign she wants to reconcile". From everything I've seen, WAW's who came back eventually made their intentions obvious
Shake,
yeah i'd love to hear what the DB coach says. i would do that but i'm broke.
South,
just like i tell my friends back home, use me as an example of what NOT to do in a relationship.
Card,
thanks for lookin out. i'll definitely check those threads out if i can find them.
my main concern is how quickly the process is going in my sitch. i mean, this is at the 4 month mark and papers have already been served. definitely believe her friends are a driving force in this matter. not like that really matters though, this is the situation i'm in. no denying it, it's now my reality. and it sux.
she did call me today to let me know that soccer practice was canceled tonight. its funny cause she had already sent me the email yesterday to let me know it was cancelled. i have both kids and she was gonna miss cause she's working overnight. she made a point to let me know she was sick today. told her i was sorry and if i can help her let me know (180 for me-but didn't plead with her to let me be there for her). she's getting an addition to her tatoo today. the kids told me that they ask me questions about R with W because they know i will tell the truth (and i only say great things bout the wife but do admit to being confused) and won't get mad for them to ask. bought a baseball glove to play catch w/S. i'm against him playing b-ball but she ok'd it. i don't like baseball and didn't really play so worried about not being able to help him as much as i'd like and of course travel costs and injury possibility. but didn't blow up about it. just tried to agree with it and own it. took him out today after school and threw the ball. so while he and i are bonding, she's trumpeting her "freedom" with a tatoo with God knows who (sigh). does anyone else think that the push for this is happening really quickly? i will say that my trust in her is really low right now but there is no OM. don't worry i won't give up. imy word is my bond and i told her it was forever. one of my friends likes to say "if Bravo says he's gonna catch a bear, i'm gonna go ahead and build a cage". i'm so stubborn that i woke up one day and decided that i was gonna quit using smokeless tobacco (19 yr habit). haven't touched it since (over a yr). that's what's frustrating about all this, she knows my word is good and yet...
Have you ever seen the Stockdale Paradox mentioned around here? I heard it for the first time today. It should be in the next DB book. It's worth a Google, at least, but here is the short version:
You must retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties.
AND at the same time…
You must confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Btw, it was developed by a guy who survived 8 years of POW and torture. That makes our sitches seem like heaven, and yet this mentality worked for him. So it will definitely work for us. And your reality is this: you have a WAW making a dash for seemingly greener pastures.
If you had to put your sitch in terms of this paradox, what would it look like? What is your hope for your M, and more importantly what is your hope for YOU as an individual man. What do you believe will happen someday? But at the same time, what are the brutal realities of your sitch? Lay it all out and face it. I don't interpret it as "dwell in misery" but "face reality, process it, learn from it".
Admiral Stockdale. Not bad for a Navy man.
I may need to frame that one.
Card the realities are i'm gonna be divorced. she has too much invested in that action and she has pre-determined the outcome. that said she also has to heal. the divorce (she will find) doesn't automatically lead to pixie dust and unicorn farts! the reality is i was changing before the BD so i have no intention/inclination to revert back to whom i was. my originally stated goal to my C was that i want to be a better man. do i want to share that with W first? absolutely. does it change anything if she doesn't want it? nope. that said, we could not have a relationship until she is done healing and develops self-worth for herself. my fear is that she is going to b*t sh*t crazy for a little while. i can't stop that but i will hurt for her and my kids. i can say without reservation that she is a fool for leaving the husband i've become!!! she will have a moment of clarity at some point and i know she is struggling with this. her favorite phrase right now is You Got This. she even said that it's hard to imagine anything making her happy right now.
she did call two more times tonight. she called right before her shift was gonna start to let me know that she was leaving from the tatoo parlor and going directly to work (ok don't know why you are telling me that). so the tatoo lasted over three hours and it still wasn't done-sigh. S told her bout the fun we had playing catch today-she was shocked at that one (that i bought a glove, even told her i would leave it at her apt so she wouldn't have to buy one to use). she told the kiddos she loved them (kinda stung to be left out even though i should be used to it-she even tells them she still loves me). she asked me to call her later so she could say goodnight to the kids. told her no she would need to call me as i don't know how busy she'll be.
she called later said good night to kids. S handed me the phone and told her she was being handed off to daddy (gotta love a matchmaker). she was pleasant and said that D was not signed up for daycare tomorrow and that she would get her from me as soon as she got off work (8a). told her no i would watch her so W could get a few hrs rest. W said thanks and she really apprectiates it. mot a problem even though i have to start my workweek tomorrow night (graveyard shift). told her to let me know when she is ready to pick up D.
so the W got off work at 8a this am. texted me to say she would be up at 11 to get D. told her to all the time she needed. she texted at 1330 that she forgot to set alarm and bring D whenever and she might be in the shower. took D over and W answered the door. she looked SO BEAUTIFUL! she had just woken up and had a shirt with no bra on on sleep shorts. i asked if i could see the tatoo. she pulled down a good part of her shorts near the hip so i could see it. it's pretty big-i think that is one of the ways she is "claiming herself". told her if anyone could pull it off she could. i was honestly preoccupied with the skin i saw. she asked if it was so bad that it had to be "pulled off". told her no just that it was a big difference from her original small daisy tatoo. she apologized again for the alarm and i told her don't worry about it it was my pleasure to help. D got teary as i was leaving and gave me a big hug and said she was gonna miss me. i gave wife and hug and as i was leaving i heard her tell D that's a sweet daddy isn't he. i miss her and my family so much. i'm still letting her initiate contact, no R talks, being pleasant, even at soccer games/practices i stand off to the side and let her come to me if she chooses (she always does). the GAL part of it is where i struggle. i work out and started playing my guitar again but not much time to do other things as i work nights. i would love to do some volunteer work and i'm gonna look into that. my life is being there for my kids and yes my W (180) although i don't advertise that to her or walk around asking what i can do for her. struggling...
Bravo, my wife is so beautiful to me that I am in pain just thinking about her being gone from my life - as my wife - forever. I know that for many of us, that pain will diminish, but never pass completely.
That's ok. It means we're human and not some kind of machine.
Embrace your grief, cry it out, scream at the wind. It helps. Don't bottle it up. A friend of mine denied his grief after D for 3 years and it almost killed him.
Find a man who gets it, is a brother to you in spite of your faults, and just let it go. (Actual brothers, especially close ones, aren't a good resource for this exercise, IMHO.)
You will find, as I have, that it is cathartic. Afterwards, you can turn a corner, breathe a bit, and ultimately return to the good PMA you need. Keep on keeping on!
thanks shake.
someone gets it, although i wish no one had to go through our own version of the st. crispin's day battle. we few, we precious few, that stood together...
it's surreal that after 15+ years i now know i can't just pick up the phone to call her and hear her voice cause she doesn't want to hear mine! she used to call me all the time or jump on the bed and just say "hey" in this chipper way that i miss so much. and it somehow contained so much love in that little word. i miss that during the night, i would sometimes feel her feet rub mine like she was just reminding herself that i was still there. all those times that i would try something new or see something and the first thought on my mind would be "i wonder if W would like this". or waiting out in the driveway when i knew she was coming home with groceries. or how she would sometimes come up behind me and wrap her arms around my waist and put her face in my back. or at night when she was cold she would ask to "sharm my warm". i miss my W and feel as if i'm dying! it's been 4 months but my pain is just as bad as the first day, only now its more real.
Any vets out there see any good signs for me? She has said as recently as Aug that she struggles w/this and has cried in my presence several times. She has also told me she loves me a couple of times. She watches me like a hawk & is continually testing me & still needs her daily affirmation from friends that's"you've got this". She also made the comment the other day bout having a hard time seeing herself being happy anywhere. Read my thread and PLEASE give some ideas. We also have a road trip planned in 1 1/2 weeks for 4 days. I'm not nervous at all bout it as its a chance to show me off in a stressful situation (road trip w/2 kids and a WAS). Ladies, any ideas? Funny thing is, I get hit on all the time here in the Pacific NW (Southern charm & accent). She has also been planning this since Feb(walking away) but still struggles. Yet she has said some of the worst things & is trying to get this D done ASAP. Help!!!
so i got off work at 6a this am. as i'm leaving work to go home to get in bed W texts me and asks if i'm going straight to bed. i tell her no so i can be there for her if she needs me (180). she tells me S wants his soccer jersey for a soccer camp that i registered him for a while back (its in my apartment). to be transparent apparently he told W it was at my apt last night and she does have a key. i just simply told her i was on my way. took the jersey over there and the kids weren't up yet. gave her the jersey and she let me see the tatoo again. she said that if i wanted i could stay a little while and help get the kids up. y'all shoulda seen their faces when they saw i was there to wake them up at Mama's. my D snuggled with me on the couch for a little while during which W made small talk. i told her i needed to go and she put out her hand to help me up and then opened her arms for a hug. i kinda smiled and hugged my little girl first and she kinda wimpered Daddy i miss you all the time. then my little boy gave me a hug. the the W gave me a huge hug with her arms over mine so we could get in close. while hugging she stroked my back a little bit. gave kids another hug and then she seemed to want another. gave her one (what can i say, i'm a giver-guess my LL-gifts). i'm not reading into anything so if there is anything i'm missing i'd really love to know. even people that i haven't talked to in years have called me recently have said "wow, you don't even sound like the same person". is she too close to the situation? i'm gonna maintain the course, limited contact (initiated only by her), be happy around her and act as if, work on my 180's (may go skydiving next week), and try not to be crushed by the soul stealing grief that strikes in waves out of the blue(the latest the memory of how happy she was picking me up at the airport in Feb-she ran up crying and jumped into my arms). hope all is well or at least getting better with everyone that reads this.
It's great to see that look on the kids faces isn't it bravo??.. A real uplifting moment if you ask me!!..
As for the W stuff, as you know I am no vet, but I would say take it as it comes and don't look too much in to it.. Just let it flow and have no expectations.. We can be hurt if things aren't what they seem that way..
Yeah it is LMW.
It's tough cause I remember that same look on her face.
saw the W at the soccer game today. she was beautiful and we talked a little at the game. she came over to stand by me and she had a somewhat low cut top on. i know she saw me glance at one point. my little girl kinda pulled on her top and W said, no you are done with those. then she asked if i saw that and pointed out that she was talking bout her breasts while smiling at me as i looked at what she was talking about (while standing near hear and she was in a chair). she relayed a story bout D rubbing on her belly and saying look at it shake. while she relayed the story she started rubbing my belly while telling the story. i told her thanks now i feel fat. she said that i was being ridiculous and i looked great. she touched my arms a couple times while we were talking. she kinda uninvited me to the pumpkin patch they are going to today. the kids did not like that. she said that she was worried bout me getting enough sleep (worked last night and tonight). so she invited me to lunch. walked them to the car and she said that if they find a good place, she wants us to go later in the month on a day when i will be will rested. at the field while helping her with spectator gear (chair, snacks, etc) she slipped and called me baby. i didn't acknowledge it. when the left the restaurant she gave me a big close hug (she got out of the car to give it) and i kissed her forehead. God i miss my family. i wonder if she ever thinks bout sex with the ex (that would be nice), but would love to just kiss her and hold her (she always loved the way i kissed her). on a side note, i got an offer through my credit card for a Hawaii trip. where we are lots of folks go there and i told her about it. she said "you know, out here going there is not such a huge travel problem like back home. we could actually take the kids at some point". not expecting it but that would be nice. any thoughts?
looking forward to the road trip starting next sun. 3 1/2 days of opportunity to show off who i am now. and i have absolutely no expectations outside of having a great time! if she warms up great, that's a bonus. i know she's prolly a little nervous bout spending that time with me for several reasons. 1) worried i'll pressure her 2) worried i'll revert back to angry, grumpy Bravo or 3)she'll not be able to deny who i am now and start to wonder what a marriage would be like w/Bravo V2. i'll go ahead and tell you now though, i'm gonna be sleeping in only boxer briefs so as to show off my physical improvements;).
bravo,
I am by far an expert on DB. Your sitch seems like hell but you also can look at it as opportunity.My wife and I are in 2 different states on opposite ends of the country right now. I can't wait to move up there so I can be around my kids. The side effect to that is with being close by and around kids she will get to see my 180's more often. It may be frustrating and I know all too well how emotionally challenging this all is. But truly use this as an opportunity some don't have. A long trip to show 180. Keep constantly in mind what your doing and every natural impulse do the opposite. Hard but if you see this as the opportunity it is angry bravo can look at positives and be happy.
Thanks CMS.
Feel for you in regards to the distance. We were separated by 2,648 miles when she moved out here 10 months ahead of me. During that time & distance, she realized she didn't want old me(can't say I blame her). Don't make the early mistake I did by saying "see all my changes?". I realized that's pretty manipulative. A lighthouse doesn't tell everyone it's a lighthouse, it's pretty self evident. I would love to get some female perspective. Laugh, lisa, ss, Sandi2, 25yrs,Claire, any others? Where y'all at?
I've seen some posters have had D papers file on them and then w/drawn. Just curious ,esp if they were WAS, how did they start to soften and let y'all know they were moving back towards you? Wonder if I can find a common thread from several success stories of like behavior to look for so if I see it I can have a plan and not push too hard yet subtly leave the door open. I'm sure the WAS doesn't want to lose face when they come back. My W would have to face a lot of her friends and admit she was wrong. What slight nudges or phrases did y'all use that worked that didn't put you out there too far (pursuing)? Especially curious for those that did divorce and reconciled. Thanks and PLEASE HELP!!!
Saw the W this am when I went to pick kids up for church. Kids pitched a fit & wanted to go to church with her. They r very anxious w/out her cause Daddy left why wouldn't she. She got flustered and mentioned she wanted to go by herself. Told her I understood cause I've taken them to church by myself since I've been here. Performed a 180 by letting her deal w/them as she saw fit and didn't step in. Showed her I knew she could handle it. She kinda stayed around near me and when I was leaving, she followed me to the door and was the firstto open her arms for a deep (intimate type) hug.
On a positive note, im going skydiving tomorrow! Working on some GAL.
Can any tell me why the vets are hard to find? Sure could use some guidance.
I believe she's starting to feel some pressure regarding her decisions. Certainly not from her butt friends. I think they may be the biggest deciding factor regarding how fast this is moving forward. Argh!!!!
i just got back from skydiving. it was awesome!!! working on some Gal. actually feel a little detached right now. but as we all know that could change at any moment. prolly this evening when i see the W at soccer practice. but i'll have the kids the next couple of days.
Talk about a GAL activity! Have you ever been before? Was it tandem?
first time, it was tandem. always wanted to do it-ended up booking on Mon night. jumped from plane at 13k feet. instructor let me land us. pretty awesome! i'm gonna try to do something like this once a week. i think next week i'm just gonna walk the streets of portlandia or go hiking in forest park or go to silverton or bike the veronia banks bike trail. going to see the W in a few, wish me luck. oh yeah, didn't tell her i was doing it.
is it a bad sign that the W has actually started to see the part she had in our marital problems but continues on. she is in C and she hasn't forgiven me yet but has me a little worried. i know that we could not reconnect until she forgives me. she says that is over regardless of my changes but has stated to me (in response to me saying i would not hurt her like that again) that i could. if you are done w/me, no i can't cause you are not open to feeling anything from/towards me again. she said that we were awful to each other. i told her that its a good thing we aren't those people anymore. this was a convo a whle back. just reflecting. on another note, i'm thinking about getting a lighthouse tatoo on my back (surrounded by crashing waves).
"I believe she's starting to feel some pressure regarding her decisions."
In what way?
hey MrB,
one of the main reasons i surmised that was her statement of "i can't see me being happy anywhere right now" with a sad smile when i asked if she was gonna be happy at new job. it was patently obvious that she was not talking bout her work. she loves her work and that is where she feels happiest. the kids are also giving her hell (and me too). she has relayed several times that D is very caring and nurturing. her example was D cradles her when she cries. also she has burst into tears several times because she feels guilty for hurting me. at those tomes, i have not brought up our R and have had PMA. she has said that this is hard for her too and that "part of her does want a divorce". only part?
"it was patently obvious that she was not talking bout her work."
Mindreading. If you're not her, then anything else that you say is pure speculation.
"the kids are also giving her hell (and me too)."
Do you mean that you give her hell too or that the kids give both of you hell?
"she has relayed several times that D is very caring and nurturing. her example was D cradles her when she cries. also she has burst into tears several times because she feels guilty for hurting me. at those tomes, i have not brought up our R and have had PMA. she has said that this is hard for her too and that "part of her does want a divorce". only part?"
Many WAS's still feel the pain of leaving. They worry about its effect on them and the family despite their rough demeanor. She feels it. It's part of the process. They feel that it's something the "must" do to be happy. Yet if you were to ask them what it is that makes them happy, they'll tell you that they don't know.
They think that leaving their M is the best thing to do when they don't see that the real best thing they can do is get help on themselves.
Do you mean that you give her hell too or that the kids give both of you hell?
giving both of us hell-where's mommy/daddy? don't get divorced, if you get divorced i'm gonna be mad at you.
she has said that she knows it'll be her fault if the kids are screwed up. why would you even risk that?
saw her tonight at practice. it was pretty cool when i asked how her day was and she said fine, then told me what all she did. she asked me and i said it was awesome. i could tell she wanted to ask me what i did and was very curious. i kept it all to myself.
she got new boots and i mentioned them. she said that she's upgrading her wardrobe after years of neglecting for the kids and family.
so i'm never there for her but i've got the kids Mon nite, Tues nite, Wed nite, D all day thurs (i go to work Thur nite), come back on fri morning to get them off to school. and W actually mentioned that she was upset cause she was invited to a timbers game and can't go because of work. wow-selfish much? i'm stoked bout having the kids but it also saves her around $200 in childcare-but i'm not there for her (sarc). at least she gave me a couple of good hugs as she left practice to go to work. she works tonight, tomorrow nite, mandatory parenting classes wed nt, orientation for new job (2nd) thurs and fri. partially why i knew she was talking bout post D life and not work. she loves work and loves to be there.
Kinda glum tonight. She didn't send shoes w/S so I had to meet her at her place to get them. She opened garage (she got there from work at same time) and I ran in and got them. I asked to please not go back my car to see kids as I knew D would have melt down. I wasn't gruff when I said it was just tired & stressed looking. I didn't want S to be late to school. When she first saw me she said "uh oh. I see rain clouds around your head". She snapped at my request and I explained my reasoning and said hey no need to snap at me. I apologized if I made her feel I was mad at her(her assumptions again), hugged her & left.
She called this evening & vented bout the neighbor keeping her awake, I listened & validated. I asked why she got so upset this morning. She said her PTSD flared up when she perceived I was in a bad mood. I told her again I was sorry and she said sorry too. Doesn't PTSD only flare up with outside triggers? Her C has really put that in her mind and is now a justification of everything. I have given no "triggers" that I'm aware of. Since I've lived hear I've been nothing but kind, loving, considerate, and respectful. Even my S has noted that she treats me like crap.
On a good note, really looking forward to the trip. I'm making a I pod playlist with fave songs for everybody. I think W will be surprised at how impt things that she likes are to me and that I make a point to remember them. But I'm sure I'll screw it up somehow in her mind.
S asked tonight why I'm so nice to W. I told him because I love her and that's how God wants us to love others. Also explained that I'm trying to be an example to him and that you never give up on those you love. Told him that if he ever went through a rough patch I would love him like that too. He got teary eyed and hugged me saying"I love you daddy. I hope mama won't destroy our family".
Argh!!!!!!!
WTH am I supposed to say to that?
well the wife came over to get the kids. but she wasn't supposed to. we had talked about it and she has to be at new job at 7a so i was gonna get S to school and watch D till babysitter picked her up at 330p tomorrow. we had talked about it but she was tired and forgot i guess. that's ok, i had save some leftovers from dinner and she was hungry. she spent about 30 min here and the kids showed off the prizes i got them for our trip to olympic national park this weekend-wed. i got her a pair of hiking socks too. we had nice work talk and she said that she was excited about the trip (me too). walked her out to the car and got the intimate hug. what's nice is that she puts her stuff in the car and then comes back out expressly for it. she did, however, leave her purse. i called but she was apparently talking to her brother. she was gone for about 45 min. she walked over (l live in the complex across the street so i can be there for the kids if needed) to get it. she smelled of alcohol and she had been crying. didn't ask if she was ok just told her i hope she has a great first day of work. she gave me another hug and left. man i miss her!
on the 180 front, i set up the boarding reservation for the dog, got travel books to help plan activites, and shopped for games and books for the family during the trip. trip planning i always left to her-never realized how stressful it was. so this week i did all that and had the kids from mon nite thru thurs morning. and on fri morning i will be going straight from work to her place to get kids where they need to go. oh yeah, and i spoke to her atty regarding the child care support plan. i got it whittled down to under $500. i really don't care about the amount per se, i just don't need to be told to take care of my family. it was nice to hear the W echo and support me in that belief of me as a dad. i left the decision to send the papers off to the state with the W. i told her i would rather wait till the end of the year and the tax filings will be less complicated. she didn't really say what she was gonna do but i let her know that i would prefer that(but i didn't plead).
Had my D all day until 330p. We went shopping for games for our trip. I ended up buying her a couple of outfits. When the sitter was driving off, I heard her little teary voice in the back "I love you daddy, I'll miss you". This ditch is such BS!!! I wasn't really there for them but I am now and have been since I've been here. I can't go back to being a part time dad & husband. Why aren't I deserving of grace? Turns out most of her friends & family knew of this plan before me. I'm really fighting resentment right now, especially when she says "I tried so hard". BS!!! Then why did u quit when you're getting the payout?
She did call tonight so I could say night to the kids. She told me bout her new job and I told her I was proud of her & knew she'd do great. Told her I'd see her in the morning (taking the kids to school so she can get to work-so she doesn't have to pay for sitter) when I get off third shift. But you know, I'm never there for her-sigh. She did say she was really excited bout the trip. I am too, cause strangely I'm not worried bout being anything other than me at this point. I am tired of the conflicting messages. She said that she would like for us all to drive around & look at Christmas lights together on Christmas eve (after discussing possibility of working on it). I told her I remembered she always loved that. I did make a point of ending the Convo on my terms.
Just catching up on your last couple of posts and a couple of observations if you don't mind.
you're going to need to let the resentment go (easier said than done I know). A few times you've mentioned sarcastically that you were 'never there for her' and it seems to bother you. It feels a little like youre still keeping score.
My W says I was never there for her and I felt that was really unfair because I did lots for her. But I didn't emotionally support her and although I knew she could talk to me - she didn't. I held onto resentment that I wasn't getting enough credit and then wasn't listening to what she was trying to tell me especially when what she was saying was that my sarcasm was upsetting her.
So I suppose I'm trying to say do things because its being a better you and try not care whether you're getting the credit.
'Its amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit' Truman
Bravo, hang in there. The kids are what's killing me too.
It's not about the credit or acknowledgement, but don't lie and I do nothing. That's just kinda frustrating. But I'm gonna continue to do those things cause it's what right. Can anyone see any positives in my ditch? Struggling to see any and would love to.
"I love you daddy, I'll miss you".
Yep, this one tears me up every time too..
Yep, heard this too.. when I asked for how long, W said the month between BD and S.. Yep, a real long time!!..
When I get as chance, I'll read your whole thread Bravo..
Kids are the real heartbreaker in all this. There is unconditional love.
In the words of guns n roses 'I hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of pain'
It would be cool if we all lived in the same city. Could u imagine the group GAL ing? Epic!!!
I will say the other day the W told me she had a pleasant thought of me. She saw a black charger & it reminded her of me. I had a black charger for a take home car. She smiled when she recounted how excited she was. Man I sure could use some hope. Anyone that's read my thread see any? I think that the W has very little sense of self and is being really influenced by sketchy "friends".
It would be cool if we all lived in the same city. Could u imagine the group GAL ing? Epic!!!
Hahaha!!.. We would be all GAL'ed out!!..
Isn't it amazing how much for clearer other folks sitches are for us but our own are f*ed up like football bat. Sandi, 25, I could use some feminine wisdom over here
Its much easier to look at other peoples threads. We are detached from those.
saw the W at soccer game today. apparently the kids were bad today and she was sore from working out. D kept pulling on her and instead of jumping in like i used to (and she would snap at me and say she had it under control) i let her handle it. she turned to me and said "look, i'll pay you if you take her off of me." told her no prob and entertained D the rest of the game. later on W said "hey we communicated. i told you what i wanted and you helped without fighting." i told her i would've helped earlier but i didn't want to send the message that i didn't think she could handle it. i wanted to respect her boundaries. she said that for a lot of years she had held in resentment cause she thought i would see her struggling and wouldn't help her. i gently let her know that i made a lot of wrong assumptions too and i should been more available to give help willingly and not grudgingly. she looked at me very thoughtful after that.
later on W said "hey we communicated. i told you what i wanted and you helped without fighting." i told her i would've helped earlier but i didn't want to send the message that i didn't think she could handle it. i wanted to respect her boundaries. she said that for a lot of years she had held in resentment cause she thought i would see her struggling and wouldn't help her. i gently let her know that i made a lot of wrong assumptions too and i should been more available to give help willingly and not grudgingly. she looked at me very thoughtful after that.
If your recounting is accurate, that's as much hope as you'll get at this stage. You've done superbly by changing your patterns. It sounds like opening up has even done some good. We shouldn't mind read, but it looks like a small victory for the day. Many of us yearn for this kind of positive interaction. Congrats. (Still: keep the pace and don't get your hopes too high!)
Yeah well done. If you kept that exchange as concise as it sounds, that's a fine thing to shoot for very couple of days with her.
Alright folks, this is last post before leaving for few days on what could be (hope I'm wrong) our last vacation as a family. It's strange that I'm not nervous at all but excited. I've put a lot of time,effort, & thought into this trip. I got card games for the kids (even twisted if it's raining,she loved that idea), a road trip playlist, bought books for everybody, bought a cooler, even went out & found a hard to locate beer we both like (she drinks like a man-Guinness & single malt scotch r her faves). I'm not worried bout slipping in my behavior cause it's a part of who I am now. Plus its gonna be great to spend all that time w/the kids. I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna enjoy showing off my new clothes too. Especially the boxer jocks I'll b sleeping in w/no shirt. C'mon I've lost 40 lbs and can see the top abs. I wanna show off a bit. Wish me & send your prayers. Maybe God will touch her heart, or let me touch her behind. Lol
just got back from vacation with the family. a great time was had by all (even W). the W loved the playlist. she said i don't know how many times that this was the most relaxing vacation we have ever had. she shared some things about some of her fears (heights, snakes, water-spec drowning). she even told how some of that was inspired by her grandmother. she was kind of insulted when i told her i noticed that she had done a great job of fighting the urge to be overprotective of our S while he was climbing some rocks. i was being supportive but she saw the negative. she didn't get to mad and saw the point i was making. bad part of trip was when we were near a suspension bridge and she was giving reasons why she didn't want to go up. i knew that she wouldn't want to and i offered to go check it out (for pic purposes) and she said "do i need to offer more reasons or just tell you no". told her ok no it is but she was upset that she had felt she hurt my feelings and teared up. i told her i was fine and hugged her. she was upset because she felt that she had shared a vulnerable part of herself (fear of heights) and i ignored it. she equivocated that that was sympnomatic of our relationship and that was why she had no trust in me. i told her i was sorry and i am getting better and continuing to work to get better. she said that the problem was just our personalities and "that's just how it is". i told her i can understand where she's coming from but anyone can be better if they want to. she complimented my wardrobe several times. she even sat by me several times of her own accord and laid down on the bed by me to plan next days activities. she kissed my D and i said "hey you just handing out sugar?" she smile and beckoned me forward and gave and accepted a kiss on the cheek. we went swimming and we were playing around and i grabbed her and told her i was gonna dunk her. she laughed and smiled while i held her in my arms (with her arms around my neck) and i dunked her and carried her around in my arms for a few minutes. after showering(after pool) she opened bathroom door (barely covered by a towel) and asked me to dress D in certain clothes. couple of times, i offered my arm (like an escort) and she took it while walking. she mentioned several times that the kids were being so well behaved that she didn't know what to think of it. i think my D was trying to play matchmaker. she would tell W that she loved her and then ask if W loved me and to tell me. W would say of course she did and that i knew that. W waited every night for good night hug and kiss on forehead before bed. i never brought up R one time and maintained happy, cheerful PMA the whole time. i treated each day as an adventure and it seemed to be catchy with the whole family. she even saw a bumper sticker from the skydiving i did (forgot it was in trunk) and was SO impressed. she commented that she couldn't believe that and i said simply that i'm all about the little adventures in life that i want to be in on. she really saw that attitude in my behavior on this trip. there was no whining, pining, anger, shortness, getting irritated by the small inconveniences on the trip. she mentioned how calm, helpful, kind, and considerated i was. i just smiled and said no problem.i was laying on my side and facing her resting. i watched her and she kept looking at me prolly 5 or 6 times for 5 or 10 seconds each time. on the way back today, she lamented having to cook dinner tonight. i offered to take them out and she jumped at that. she even asked if i wanted to go to a movie before dinner. during the trip back, she kept teasing me and several times i reached out and tickled her and she enjoyed that. S played matchmaker this time. he sat with a seat between me and him while D sat in my lap (W was getting a drink). W sat right by me and we laughed through the whole movie and kept nudging me at times and leaning in to whisper things. all during the trip she kept mentioning "the next trip" or "the next time we come". i did catch her checking out my package a couple of times when i was about to hug her. she even mentioned of her own accord how her "time" of the month popped up out of no where. and then i asked her the next day and she said that it was all over. kinda thought that was weird convo. when i left the apt tonight, she gave me a couple of big hugs and told me how good a time she had and that she knew it was more expensive that it could have been but it was a great trip. at dinner tonigh, my fortune cookie said that listening was my gift and it would give me a reward in the next month. i laughed and showed it to her. she said that it was true and i definitely listen to others now and she has noticed and it is a new thing. she got flustered cause she wanted me to know that she was complimenting me and i smiled at her and let her know if she meant it that it meant a lot to me and i'm gonna continue to and get better. don't worry, no expectaions. this was prolly the last trip as a true family but refuse to give up hope. anybody see any positives out of this interaction, or am i took close to see it? next step? go "gray"? not gonna call her or text her first or bring up R or D. we did end up posing several times for family pics and she posed for several pics for me (something she was reticent to do previously). i know even the pics with me in them, she kept in her phone and was pleased with them.
on a negative note, after the suspension bridge she did mention "i know that there are things that you want. there are things that i want, and they are in conflict, and i'm gonna choose me". i didn't really say anything to that just let her talk.
and the hotel had no tv and we were in the car for an average of 6 hours a day with just that little amount of conflict (w/W or kids). played card games, twister, or pool. during pool, we even started poling each other with the cues playfully.
it really bothered me, that mess up about the heights. she said that she had trusted me with the info bout her fears and how i had wanted to "really" know her and it ended up like that.on the way back from the ferry last night, she was quiet and i tried to draw her out of the mind set of focusing on the negative, i started to ask questions. ranging from favorite color, flower, pasta, songs, bands, different situations that would set off her anxieties. she asked why the questions and i let her know that i want to learn how to listen and apply what i know so that there won't be a situation like that in the future. she seemed to enjoy answering all my questions and we ended up going back and forth like that for a couple of hours.
she also mentioned how painful the tatoo was but it was freeing as well. she said it was like all the anguish and pain she has been experiencing for the last several months could and had been released by the physical pain. i guess that could be looked at two ways
1)she was in an emotional rollercoaster (hid it well)
2)she's now past it and moving on
both don't bode well for me.
Never Gonnna Give Up!!!
on a interesting side note, her bestie (the one w/the meth head XH) is still involved with a cheater. W is concerned for her. man it was hard not to let loose on that BIATCH! just said that its her life and she needs to make her own decisions as it affects her and her alone. wonder if she was able to decipher that.
one of my biggest concerns is that i see many posters on here letting the WAS see what life would be like without them. my problem is that i was not here with them for 10 months and she did it on her own. any reason that i can still hope? anyone? could use some encouragement
There's always hope and that's the sting. If there wasn't it would be easier to accept.
First off, be sure you break up your post with paragraph and line breaks. That description of your vacation was very hard to read.
"on a negative note, after the suspension bridge she did mention "i know that there are things that you want. there are things that i want, and they are in conflict, and i'm gonna choose me". i didn't really say anything to that just let her talk."
Why is that negative? She's right. The challenge is to show her that you can be a part of that journey of her finding herself.
"one of my biggest concerns is that i see many posters on here letting the WAS see what life would be like without them."
You misunderstand this action. It's not to let the WAS see what life is without them. It's just giving the WAS what they want. They say they don't want the LBS around, so you leave. This way too, the LBS doesn't become a constant target for the WAS.
"my problem is that i was not here with them for 10 months and she did it on her own. any reason that i can still hope? anyone?"
There's always hope. What else have you been doing to change the issues that she had with you in the M?
Thanks for chiming in Mr. Bond.
I have made several changes in my behavior and issues I had during our relationship.
1) anger- through counseling I have found the root of my anger issues and refusal to address it. I have not had a single angry outburst or reaction since I have been here. Even when she has been super critical and revised our marital history to paint me as the Devil I have taken a moment to collect myself and not been controlled by my initial visceral reaction.
2)manipulation- I used to disregard her opinions to the point where she would not offer any. Now I ask her what she thinks or feels and give weight to her consideration. If I didn't agree with her I would force her to justify why she felt a certain way or tell her she was wrong. I would use my mood to influence her actions. I've actually told her since I've been here that I would love to know her reasoning behind things but if she doesn't feel comfortable doing that, I would simply respect a no.
3)Critical nature- her 'LL is words of affirmation. I support her decisions and make sure I let the kids know how smart their mom is when she makes decisions with them. When she criticizes herself I jump to her defense. She tries to deflect my opinions but I ask her not to minimize my feelings. I listen carefully when she speaks and make a point to STFU when she does share. I validate her and profess my respect for the job she does at work and point out the good things she does when she recounts interactions w/co worked.
4)Dependabilty- one of the first things she said when dropping the bomb was that I was never there for them. I haven't missed a single practice or game since I've been here. I've taken time out to work on soccer w/S one on one several times-even at the loss of sleep (I works graveyard). Every time she has called needing me for something my first response is I'm on my way not why can't u handle it. I take the kids everywhere and take my D to the bathroom when we r all out in public to help out. And I've done all of these things gladly with a willing spirit and not demanded that it be noted, but because I should have been doing this all along.
That sounds like you're doing well - I can learn quite a bit from that particularly about the LLs
Just got tickets to take the kids to Disney on Ice Sat nite. Never would've done that before. Trying to include the kids in my GAL. Taking a 8 & 4 year old into the city by myself at night. Fighting w/an amped up PCP user is less scary. Just another adventure!
My W is using the tickets I had to Disney on ice this weekend but taking MIL instead of me.
My D3 loves Disney on ice. My S1 isn't fussed
Where at? We r in Portland
Birmingham, it
Long old way from Oregon.
Your D will love it. Though expect to be surrounded by those Spinny LED things.
saw the W yesterday. pleasant conversation. she was nominated for nurse of the year and had the luncheon. let her know i was so proud of her and they were crazy not to give it to her. it was her first year here and she got nominated. i really am so proud of her. asked her to pack a princess dress for D for disney on ice. she was so impressed that i'm taking them. think she's jealous she's not going (she has to work). she walked us out to the car and i got a big hug. she called the kids later and told them goodnight and spoke to me too. bout two hours later she sent me a text randomly that it was crazy at work tonight. i simply replied that "i know you're gonna do great" with a wink face.
i sure do miss her!
oh yeah, she also said that they were gonna do Santa soon and she would love it if i joined them.
venting
so yesterday sucked. rained at the soccer game. i got an umbrella and held it over the W and D so they wouldn't get wet. power went out at my apt (didn't record the game i wanted to see). restaurant we went to for dinner (me & kids) didn't have my fave beer. W was kinda cold yesterday. had a small fender bender at the Disney on Ice venue. got home and still no power. up all night throwing up. power didn't come on until 1a.have to work 16 hrs today. saw W this am. she was nicer and gave me a couple of good hugs. told me her tentative plans on tues night(usually keeps me in the dark-but i don't ask). i took the kids to church with me cause she wanted to go by herself. she ended up sleeping in. feel pretty low right now. she hasn't mentioned anything bout me signing the settlement. her atty was supposed to send me something but hasn't yet. i know that the timing will depend on what she wants to do. hoping the positive vacay might give her pause but not expecting it. any thoughts?
W just came over to pick up the kids. she came in and sat down in the chair by me. made pleasant small talk bout her job and day. she asked if i had anything to drink and asked if i would drink a beer with her. just so happens that i had 2 kolsch style beers (the only beer we both like) and opened them for us. we played a couple of songs on youtube that the kids and she wanted to here. she was showing pics on her phone to D and i saw that she still had family photos from the vacay on it. i mentioned that me and S had been talking bout how cool it would be someday to get a cabin in the mountains for Christmas. she said that she had been thinking bout it and was planning on looking into it. while saying that she looked at me and said that she couldn't commit to it. i said that's cool, i was just thinking someday it would be cool. she mentioned that a hotel on mt. hood usually has deals around then so she must have been seriously considering it already to have that knowledge already. whatever, that's up to her, she would have to initiate that. she ended up staying here around 45 minutes. walked them all out to the car. she waited till after i put D in the car so she could get her python hug and kiss on her forehead. keep in mind, i never say i love you or tell her i'll always be there for her. i just make a point of the hugs and forehead kisses as my 180. i don't get my hopes up about them. she did mention that she wished that i had halloween off to go trick or treating with them. oh well, back to my fortress of solitude. what sux is that today while i was driving around today, i heard a song that i hadn't heard in years. bryan white's "i'm not supposed to love you anymore". of course i immediately burst into tears. wonder how many folks will now youtube that song. I HATE YOU BRYAN WHITE!! i love you my sweet girl (W's nick name).
so on my way to the gym this morning, i got a text from the W. turns out she was seriously considering the mountain deal. well we are not staying overnight, but she booked dinner at the major lodge there for all of us. she even mentioned that we could go tubing before the dinner (@330p) before Santa made an appearance at the lodge. she said "maybe the kids will fall asleep on the way back" w/a smiley face. i did not initiate any of it but was positive in my responses and did not draw it out. she said it was expensive but she would buy. then 30 minutes later while i'm grunting in the gym, she comes walking in looking great. she came over and gave me a hug. finished workout and went and said goodbye to her. she made small talk bout the morning w/the kids. gave her a hug and told her to have fun at dinner tonight. positive interaction?
GAL activity of the day: took D for her first manicure. the entire time she had a smile on her face. she kept turning and looking at me and blowing air kisses. i never thought i would be doing stuff like that and i'm upset that i haven't done it my kids' whole life. what an as*hat i was.
definite bad nite with the W. i asked her bout the Christmas list and putting things together here for the kids. she said she was gonna make it a girls nite and do it at a friends house cause that's what she "usually does". um, you've been here for 1 Christmas. i said ok if that's what you want to do. i just usually put the things together. she was pissed at that cause in her mind i never did it. i told her i didn't always do all of it and i certainly didn't want to minimize what she did. she tried to suck me into to naming the things i put together. i told her i dind't make notes but i understood where she was coming from. she was very short at there car and didn't offer a hug. i told her i was sorry i upset her and she said she would get over it by tomorrow. she kinda glared at me and said she hopes i have a good shift tomorrow night. kinda tipping her hand that she has no interest in contact tomorrow. kinda knocked the wind out of my sails.