Hello friends
Here is the full story:
FULL STORY But for the sake of time and simplicity, I decided to make a new thread with a simplified version of the story. I have been reading Michelles DB book. Here is my situation.
My wife and I had been separated for over 3 months now. She has been set on divorce since the beginning of our separation. The reason is because, after a big argument that we both had, I failed to contain the argument between us and my family found out about the argument. Then I vented out to my parents, who were in town, about the incident. While my intentions were not to slander her name with my family, the fact that I vented out to my parents caused a chain reaction of disappointment and resentment against my wife. At the beginning of August, she moved out unexpectedly. I know she was going to move out, but she never told me when exactly. I deeply apologized to her by first acknowledging my faults and empathizing with her feelings. To this day she still express to me how disappointed, hurt, angry, and hateful she is against me, and I truly understand her feelings. Even our mutual friends have been involved. It is a true mess! She continues to lash at me pretty much every time we see each other, but I truly understand the way she is feeling and I don't argue with that. I truly love her and I am doing things that I believe will rebuild this severely damaged relationship. And by the way, I am not here to defend myself. So feel free to call me out. Any advice will be truly appreciated.
Here is a little background story. There were two major incidents that lead to our unfortunate separation. This is the first incident.
Around 3 months ago we had a formal wedding (we first married around 2 years ago at the court house). We both worked pretty hard for this event (she worked harder, off course). At the rehearsal night, my wife got offended by my sister-in-law (which was part of the wedding party) because she did not acknowledge my wife when she walked into the venue the night of the rehearsal. In other words, my wife got upset because my sister-in-law did not say “hi” to her when she came to the venue. This was later proven to be false.
They were having issues since the beginning of the year, but 5 days before the wedding, they "solved" their differences. At least that's what everybody thought, including me. My wife went and hugged my sister-in-law (SIL), and then my SIL said 3 times “I’m sorry for everything”.
Back to the rehearsal night, since I wanted to make my wife happy, I had to compromise by telling my brother that I prefer for his wife (sister-in-law) not to be part of the wedding party anymore. This caused a negative chain reaction, because now my brother (best man) did not showed up for the wedding, as well as my aunt and uncle. My aunt and uncle helped my SIL and wife to reconcile 5 days before the wedding. We still had the wedding with some bitter-sweet feelings in my heart. But we still had fun, and I made sure I was smiling in front of her so her day will not be ruined. I grew feelings of resentment after this incident. I asked my wife to please allow me to recover from all of this. It was like taking a bullet from her; I was hurting and needed time to recover. It had nothing to do with me hating her or a reason for me to end our marriage. I was feeling very sad for my brother, my SIL, my aunt, but especially, for my parents who were in town just for our wedding. My brother was always there for the preparation of the wedding, as well as being the person that was in charge of the venue the night of the rehearsal and our wedding. He also was the one who was supposed to provide the cake.
This is the end of the first story. More things happened, but I had to keep it simple. I will be posting the second one tonight. Thank you for reading.
Yes, we need more of the story.
When family gets involved, it can really muddy the waters. I wish I had found DB back when our problems really started rearing their ugly head because MWD talks about avoiding that trap. Unfortunately, I had a similar situation to you and just like your W, it seemed to spark the fire that lead us to where we are today. My sister threw a whole gallon of gas on it when she got upset at my W 3 months after W had visited W and BiL about a pair of shorts she had worn during that time while working out.
When you talk with people about your W now, what type of language do you use? When friends and family speak of her, how do they speak of her? One thing I found that helped change things was that I chose to only speak positively of her. If others started to speak negatively about her, I would tell them that I was doing my best to understand what she was going through and that I found talking about all the negative things didn't help. I didn't do this so that it would get back to her that I was doing that, but mostly for my own peace of mind. Re-hashing the things that had happened over and over just felt like picking through the trash.
As a result of that, I found myself feeling less on edge around her and I think she could feel it too because things changed. It wasn't huge and she didn't come running back, but it was a positive step.
Looking forward to more of the story.
I agree with Topgun. It's of course helpful to get advice and support from family, but be careful that their opinions dont send yours down a terminal dark hallway. It really does help you maintain PMA around WAW when you don't feel like you are "turning off" negative thoughts about her the moment she makes eye contact. Coming at her from a position of understanding (even if you are actually upset) helps you come across as genuinely open to and unpressuring towards her.
Yes, we need more of the story.
You are correct about this. Let me expand more on the issues between my SIL and my W.
A year ago we decided to plan a wedding. We were already married at the courthouse. This already shows how private I normally keep things from the family. We didn't even told our families about our marriage until 6 months later. Back to the wedding plans, my W was jobless at the time we started to plan from the wedding. In fact, she lost her job for a total of 6 months and I took care of everything during that time. It wasn't until January of this year that she actually found a very good job at an investments firm. During the planning of the wedding, she opened up to me and confessed how sad she was because her family was not as close to her as my family was. In fact, she felt closer to my family than to her own family. I did not really understand why because, after meeting her family, they seemed to be great people. As a result, my W chose my SIL to be the Maid of Honor.
But with the past of the time things changed. My W reconnected with her family and she added more girls to the bridal party. This was a good thing because I saw that she was finally reconnecting with her cousins and friends. Again, I wasn't sure why she was so disconnected from them. According to my W, at some point in her life she had issues with almost all of her family. Most of these issues relate to the trauma she lived as a child, in which her father abused her for nearly 7 years. She fell rejected and abandoned because nobody cared about her well being after she finally got free from all of that horrible situation. But there were strong reasons of why her family could not contact her. There was a protection order against her mother's side of the family so they could not even contact her until she turned 18.
During the wedding plans things got a little heated between my W and SiL. My SiL speaks mostly spanish so she will rely messages to me and then I will rely these messages to my W. One of the major things that sparked these arguments was the fact that my SiL personally spoke with my W multiple times and told her that she would feel more comfortable if she (my W) would just tell her (SiL) what to do or what kind of dress and shoes my W wants her to wear, instead of meeting with the rest of the wedding party to discuss these things. In other words, my SIL did not feel comfortable talking to the rest of the bridal party because she did not really knew them and she had an extremely hard time understanding them. My SIL basically said "You guys decide whatever you want, and I will just go with the flow, no matter how much it costs. Just tell me what you want me to wear or if you need help from me." My W understood this at first, but then she made a Whatsapp group for the bridesmaids and included my SiL. Again, my SiL called me and asked me to please take her out of the Whatsapp because she kept receiving too many txts from the bridal party. Keep in mind that most of the girls from the bridal party didnt have a job, so they will text literally all day long. So my W took her out of the Whatsapp group. Then a week later, my W gave my SiL phone number to the matron of honor, which was my W's SiL. She gave her the phone number without my SiL consent. Then my SiL received a text message from the matron of honor with instuctions on when to get the dress, what kind of shoes to wear, etc. My SiL got upset at this point and texted me saying that she would prefer for my W to communicate with her instead of the other girls who were strangers to her, and that she does not appreciate the fact that my W gave her phone number away without consulting her first. The original message from my SiL sounded very harsh, but that was basically what she meant.
Things got very heated up, and at this point I was upset with my SiL. I mean, she could been less mean in the text message or at least she could of text my W instead of me. Since we didnt replied to her text message, she later wrote back and said that she didnt wanted to be in the wedding party anymore. After this I had couple conversations with my brother and then finally my SiL decided to be back to the wedding party. But my W was not happy and wanted to talk to my SIL, which was a very fair request. But as time passed by, my W tried many times to speak to her during family events but my SIL was acting indifferent towards her. It wasnt until a week and a half before the wedding (my birthday) when my W finally confronted her. Things did not turned out well, because my SIL always had the understanding that she was still part of the wedding party. This confusion was a result of a comment that my W made to me a month before the wedding. She literally said "Look, if you SiL wants to walk, let her walk. I dont want to add more drama to all of this. Lets just have fun and forget about all of this." As a result, I thought also that my SiL was going to walk. My SiL and W argued over the phone for this misunderstanding, as my SiL already bought her dress and shoes according to my W's request months ago.
After this unfortunate event, we met with my uncle. After an hour long conversation he asked us to make peace with my brother and SiL because of the potential long term damage that this whole situation can cause. He said he understands both sides and that he sees that my SiL was being insensitive. 5 days before the wedding we met with my brother and SiL at my aunt's house. My aunt and uncle acted as mediators. We apologized first for the misunderstanding and expressed that we would like to move forward. But then my B and SiL started to talk and make their point. At this point things started to get heated up, because apparently my W and SiL had separate conversations that I didnt know about. In these conversations they spoke about my SiL walking with the rest of the wedding party. But my W denied all of this, which cause my SiL to look like a liar. Then my SiL tried to physically attack my W. I stood between them and I yelled at my SiL. Things were out of control. But then I saw the light. Apparently it was also my fault because there was information that I did not rely to my wife, which made my wife also look as a liar. I truly apologized for this misunderstanding and then things started to cool down. At the end, my wife went and hugged my SIL while telling her "I dont want u to be mad at me". My SiL then said to my W "I'm sorry for everything" at least 3 times while crying very hard. Then my bro asked my wife if it was okay for them to be part of the wedding party, to which my wife promptly replied 'yes'. Then right after that, my wife said that she always wanted my SiL to be part of the wedding party. Everything was going well.
We had a pleasant conversation the rest of the afternoon. I took my W aside and asked her how she was feeling about all this. She said she doesnt want any drama so she decided to drop it. But she also expressed to me that she was very upset with me because of the misunderstanding that I caused. Then we went home.
Then 4 days later was the rehearsal night which I described earlier in this post. Please, feel free to ask any questions. Have a blessed day!
. When you talk with people about your W now, what type of language do you use? When friends and family speak of her, how do they speak of her? Looking forward to more of the story.
To be honest, when I speak with family about her is because they ask me how things are going. I do not even start talking about her. Now, once we start talking we only refer to events like those that took place at the wedding. Also, we talk about issues that happened in the past in front of the family. Few family members dont speak well of her. They will say she is very self-centered. Even her aunt said to me that she is being selfish and manipulative and that she has always been like that. I do NOT talk trash about her, nor allow people to talk bad about her when they are in front of me. As a side note, I never told anybody about our issues before. We always kept everything to ourselves. The very first time I vented out to my parents was at the rehearsal night (refer to the first post). This was because it involved the family directly. Even tho I defended my W, but my family was already affected by the outcome of this unnecessary drama. I took a decision to make her happy, and it hurt me. But I still remained by her side. So, when I speak about my W to family or close friends, I speak with a sense of disbelief and dissapointment. Something like 'I cant believe shes divorcing me for this...' or 'why would she talk to me this way? I havent even cheated on her or abuse her.' I hope this answers your question.
Good morning friends
It is time for some updates. First of all, thank you for your responses. So far they help me see the situation in a clearer view.
My W and I met two weeks ago in order for me to give her my signed and notarized part of the divorce papers. We started the conversation in a polite way, but it quickly turned into a blame-me-for-everything monologue. It has been well over 3 months of separation and we are still talking about this like it happened yesterday. After a while of going back and forth we finally hugged each other. She then told me that she still loves me but she cannot deal with my family, and that she doesn't want to see my family ever again. I proposed, again, for us to work on ourselves and forget about family for now. But she said is too late. Then we hugged again and she went back to class.
Later that day she texted me asking if we could go out for dinner. I said yes and we went out later that night. We had a good time, however she decided to vent out to me about how she was feeling, and how I destroyed this marriage. Regarding the beach incident, she also said that after what she went through with my family, she had the right to vent out and yell at me because she had no one else to vent out to. I am new to marriage and I don't know if it is normal for a spouse to yell at you in public and saying things like "now I know what kind of man you are...You are just like your f...ing family" when all I did was to hug her and listen to her feelings. We finished eating and we went to her car because it was raining and it was close to the restaurant. She then drove me to my car. Before I left, we kissed for a while. Then we went to our respective apartments.
More on the second incident is coming soon. Stay tuned.
...My W and I met two weeks ago in order for me to give her my signed and notarized part of the divorce papers. We started the conversation in a polite way, but it quickly turned into a blame-me-for-everything monologue.
...After a while of going back and forth we finally hugged each other. She then told me that she still loves me but she cannot deal with my family, and that she doesn't want to see my family ever again. I proposed, again, for us to work on ourselves and forget about family for now. But she said is too late.
...Later that day she texted me asking if we could go out for dinner. I said yes and we went out later that night. We had a good time, however she decided to vent out to me about how she was feeling, and how I destroyed this marriage.
...I am new to marriage and I don't know if it is normal for a spouse to yell at you in public and saying things like "now I know what kind of man you are...You are just like your f...ing family" when all I did was to hug her and listen to her feelings.
...Before I left, we kissed for a while. Then we went to our respective apartments.
Do you see a pattern? You get together, she gets angry, she wants to be close to you and does something to initiate that, you get together, she gets angry, she does something to be close to you.......
In my SSM, my wife of 38 years at the time, whenever she begain to feel close to me, would pick a fight with me so she could maintain an emotional distance.
In movies/sagas/stories, to have a "super hero" requires a "super villian" If you wife needs to re-write history to make her "the good guy or hero" in your divorce story, she needs to have villians she is opposing? You and your family are likely the villians to the drama she is writing in her mind.
You can't have Batman without the Joker, Sherlock Holmes without Professor Moriarty.
You sound like you are handling things mostly well, as she keeps coming back and then pushing you away. Congratulations on the "she keeps coming back" part.
Your challenge is to look at what you could do differntly (i.e. a 180) when she is back so that she doesn't get to easily push you and your family away.
One of the hard lessions I learned was not to be baited into arguing with my W no matter what she said. I also needed to not knuckle under to her in a "MR NICE GUY fashion." If you have read No more Mr. Nice Guy, you will know what I mean. I had to learn to be an integrated, strong, polite MAN, who when she yelled at me, didn't respond with anger but assumed the adult/leader role and asked her civil questions that she could hear. I couldn't tell her what to do, only she could decide what she was doing, but I could guide her thinking.
I remember one event where we were out at dinner in a restaurant and she did yell at me (it does happen, but not often). I just looked at her with a question on my face and said I was sorry she felt so upset, but what was it I had just done that caused her to get so angry in a public place. She thought for a moment and then apologized and said she had no idea why she did what she did.
As part of your GAL, you may want to read lots and lots of books on relationships, especially on setting boundaries as you and your W (or ex-W now that the papers are signed) will both need to set boundaries, especially with family if you ever get back together. If she sees and learns from you about setting boundaries it might help her come back to you.
So what kind of 180 are you going to do the next time you meet?
Good luck.
Mr Young at Heart
Thanks for your response. I apologize I replied so late. I have been extremely busy lately between work, church, studying, and trying to find a cheaper apartment to move into.
You have described my W without even knowing the rest of the story. I am impressed! I believe this is where experience kicks in. I will be posting the second story soon, but is a long, long story. So I am trying to keep it as short as possible.
Back to your post, you are right. Two days ago she came to take the dog and give it to her brother. We could not keep him due to the unavailability of taking good care of him (we work too hard and have little time for the dog). So she walks in my apt and gives me a hug. She then started to brag about a "singles party" she did at her place couple days ago. She said it was "wild". I still feel that sometimes I am talking to a high school girl. But as the conversation went on, you can easily figure out that it wasn't a "wild" party at all. It was just around 8 coworkers celebrating the UN Day.
She then noticed I was getting big (I am a skinny guy but I've been going to the gym for the past 3 months, and now Im 15 lbs heavier). Then she started saying that she doesn't even feel like we were married. She thinks is probably her coping mechanism (she went tru a horrible physical and emotional trauma as a child caused my her own parents). But, as the conversation went by, she started accusing me again for ruining everything. I had to stop her (I never did this before) and tell her that I am done listening to the same complaints over and over. It has been 4 months of our separation and she keeps bringing this up. I told her that I am willing to listen to her, but not to listen to things that she had repeated so many times in her past. But she kept talking and began to cry. She said she believed on us, on our future together. And that she put all the effort in this relationship. As a man, I get tired of all this situation when I dont get even a single acknowledgement. I also put a lot into this relationship. And when I start giving her examples on how much I also contributed in this relationship, she cuts me off saying "Alright, alright, fine..."
So we talked for like an hour and a half. Then she hugged me and said "I really love you, but not like before...I believe we should have been friends in the first place before becoming lovers..." Then she added "lets work on our friendship now." She was very emotional.
But then she asked me if I can help her pay her phone bill. We are sharing the same plan under my name, but she was paying her half. She said that since I am moving in with a roommate, now I will have extra money to help her with her bill. I told her that:
1. she makes almost double the amount that I make, plus commissions.
2. She decided to leave and erase me from her life for ever (she deleted me from FB, talked trash and lies about me to others, etc.)
3. We are not together anymore.
4. The reason why your phone bill is so high is because you wanted the iPhone 6 plus an iPad.
So we are separated, she is not going to help me repair our old apartment before I leave, she left a mess when she moved out, she told me shes not willing to help me at all, and on top of that you are looking for financial support from me? WTH girl!
Then she hugged me again before getting in her car. At this point she was crying a lot. I told her "you know my position, you know that I apologized to you and asked for forgiveness so many times. And I know you said you forgive me, but you did not want to fix anything. You moved out suddenly without even letting me know...But still I believe we can fix this together..." She didn't say anything and got in her car. I kissed her and left.
Mr Young at Heart
Thanks for your response.
...You have described my W without even knowing the rest of the story. I am impressed! I believe this is where experience kicks in.
...Back to your post, you are right. Two days ago she came to take the dog and give it to her brother....So she walks in my apt and gives me a hug. She then started to brag about a "singles party" she did at her place couple days ago. She said it was "wild".
...She then noticed I was getting big (I am a skinny guy but I've been going to the gym for the past 3 months, and now Im 15 lbs heavier). Then she started saying that she doesn't even feel like we were married. She thinks is probably her coping mechanism .... But, as the conversation went by, she started accusing me again for ruining everything.
I had to stop her (I never did this before) and tell her that I am done listening to the same complaints over and over. ...I told her that I am willing to listen to her, but not to listen to things that she had repeated so many times in her past.
But she kept talking and began to cry. She said she believed on us, on our future together. And that she put all the effort in this relationship.
...And when I start giving her examples on how much I also contributed in this relationship, she cuts me off saying "Alright, alright, fine..."
So we talked for like an hour and a half. Then she hugged me and said "I really love you, but not like before...I believe we should have been friends in the first place before becoming lovers..." Then she added "lets work on our friendship now." She was very emotional.
But then she asked me if I can help her pay her phone bill....I told her that:
1. she makes almost double the amount that I make, plus commissions.
2. She decided to leave and erase me from her life for ever (she deleted me from FB, talked trash and lies about me to others, etc.)
3. We are not together anymore.
4. The reason why your phone bill is so high is because you wanted the iPhone 6 plus an iPad.
...Then she hugged me again before getting in her car. At this point she was crying a lot.
I told her "you know my position, you know that I apologized to you and asked for forgiveness so many times. And I know you said you forgive me, but you did not want to fix anything. You moved out suddenly without even letting me know...But still I believe we can fix this together..." She didn't say anything and got in her car. I kissed her and left.
Where to start. You are seeing the patern, which is a great step in understanding the dynamics of your relationship. That will allow you to do a DB 180 and force her to interact with you in a different way. Your standing up to her rants and you saying no to her financial demands may have be inadvertant 180's which will force her to interact differently.
One of the keys to a sucessful 180, is that it will be challenged. You might want to do some real thinking about that and figure out how she might challenge your "new" you position and how you will respond.
Now for the bad news. It is hard to tell if you handled the last part well or not. Let me repeat something I said earlier so you can reflect on it and the last part of what you did.
One of the hard lessions I learned was not to be baited into arguing with my W no matter what she said. I also needed to not knuckle under to her in a "MR NICE GUY fashion." If you have read No more Mr. Nice Guy, you will know what I mean. I had to learn to be an integrated, strong, polite MAN, who when she yelled at me, didn't respond with anger but assumed the adult/leader role and asked her civil questions that she could hear. I couldn't tell her what to do, only she could decide what she was doing, but I could guide her thinking.
I remember one event where we were out at dinner in a restaurant and she did yell at me (it does happen, but not often). I just looked at her with a question on my face and said I was sorry she felt so upset, but what was it I had just done that caused her to get so angry in a public place. She thought for a moment and then apologized and said she had no idea why she did what she did.
Only you know the tone of your voice when you told her you had apoligized and she had accepted and she had not tried to fix the marriage. From my seat that sound like if not getting into an argument, at least getting into a heavy debate. Hopefully there was no anger in your voice.
Don't get drawn into an argument with her no matter how hard she tries to draw you into one. You can be firm with her. You can point out the mature approach to handling a situation. Assume the Alpha-role in the relationship, be the mature adult or leader that she wants to instinctively follow (you said she was acting like a young girl, maybe that really is how she is feeling). Don't be what Dr. Glover refers to as the "Nice Guy" she wants to walk all over and manipulate.
To close on a positive note of what you did. She offered to be friends with you and work on your friendship. That was a great offer and hopefully you accepted or agreed to at least part of it. Working on friendship will keep her around so she can notice the changes you are making in your life and become again attracted to you. If you keep up with your GAL and your firm 180's she will have to see that you are a different person and one she needs to treat differently, which maybe why she wants to remain friends even when she knows she has treated you so badly.
Good luck.
Hello everybody!
I see that I havent received too much attention on tjis matter. I am not sure if I have to post regularly. But anyways, Its time for some updates.
2 days after the last encounter, she called me at around 10:40pm. She asked me if I wanted to come over her apartment to pick up a CD/DVD drive that belongs to me. I felt tempted to go overthere, but after reading DB this was actually a bad idea. I have to act 'busy' and not too desperate. So I declined her offer and told her that I was going to call her at a later time so I can pick up the item. She said no problem and I wish her a blessed night.
A week later (halloween weekend) I received some pictures from a mutual friend. In the pictures, she was dressed up on a cat-woman suit posing next to her ex-BF. This made me upset and very disappointed at the same time. She told me that this guy was an alcoholic, an abuser and that she thought he was gay. Now apparently shes back with him and we are still married. The worst part is that she made this picture public, so now many people knows about this. At this point i dont know what to think. We have no kids and tomorrow I am moving to a new apartment with my cousin.
In the picture she looked clearly drunk, and he looked like he wasn't really too into her. I haven't go out with anybodyand im not pplanning to date anybody any time soon.
Thats all for now. The second part of the story is completed but I will not post it until I see that there is enough traffic in this post. Its a long story but I managed to keep it short.
I would like some advice on this matter. Have a blessed day everyone!
It's hard to stay interested when you don't post very often. I mean, you haven't even given the second part yet? What are we suppose to respond to, if you give us something to read? Why are you dragging your feet around? You need to lite a case of dynamite and get on top of it.
Tell the story and get to DBing!
You are right about that, sandi2. The main reason why I havent post the second story is because I had the story saved in my computer (i am using my phone now) and now the computer decided to not turn on. It has been like this for weeks. So then I decided to keep posting using my phone, which is annoying due to the thumb-texting. But I guess I need to get used to it. I also work all day, so I barely have time to sit and spend time in the computer. I have the second story on my phone now, and I will post it today.
Thanks for your response:-) .
Here is the story for the second incident. It took me hours to gather all the important information. Let me know what you think, friends.
My cousin was having her wedding two weeks after our formal wedding. Due to the previous drama with my brother and SIL, the whole family was there except my wife and I. We went to the beach instead in order to clear our minds from all the drama, but I must confess that I wasn't very happy because my dad was in town (haven't seen him in over a year) and I couldn't spend enough time with him. Anyways, that morning she made breakfast for me, then I picked up the stuff to go to the beach (umbrella, chairs, etc). On our way to the beach she was enjoying a nice cocktail that she made, while talking about the way she was feeling, and also mentioned how she was still hesitant to fully open her heart and be vulnerable to me because she feared I was going to take her for granted and hurt her feelings. We finally arrived to the beach and it was very crowded. But then we had a very bad argument. That day she was being very emotional and vulnerable with things that she was expressing to me. I listened to her carefully and with all my attention. She cried while she was talking about deep-rooted issues from her past. As time passed by, she decided to continue the conversation on the shore. But as we walked towards the shore, she asked me to go first and sit on the chair while she takes a minute in the water. I asked her "are you sure?", and she said "its ok" and smiled at me. So I told her "I will keep an eye on you then".
5..10..15 minutes has passed and she is still in the water. So I go to her and ask her how is she doing, but she was crying and saying "You abandoned me!!..You left me all by myself...now I know what kind of man u really are!!!"
I was very confused so I started reasoning with her. She kept saying that I abandoned her, and kept pushing me away. So I decided to go back to the shore and start packing our stuff. She then walked to the shore and I met her half way with a dry towel (it was breezy and late..7pm). She then kept arguing and said "Now I know we should never been together!" At that point I was very upset, but tried to reason with her. There was ppl around us watching us, and when I kept trying to reason with her, she kept talking over me and turning her back at me. So I told her that I was going to sit down and wait for her at the chairs, and she said "Go, and prove to me that I am right about you...you are just like your f..ing family...just like your f..ing brother.." At that point I said to her "f..you!" and walked away. Now, I realized how wrong I was for saying such a horrible word to my beloved wife. So, at that point the argument turned against me because I said to her "f..you". Now things were getting very loud. My W asked me to leave and not to touch her stuff. So I grabbed my ID and CC (We went to the beach in her car) and walked away towards the parking lot. I called my pastor and told him about the situation, but while I was on the middle of the story, my W's best friend called me. She actually told my W to stop talking so much about herself and to "try to understand your husband's position of being detached from his immediate family" that came from 600 miles away just to see us getting "married again" and now I can't even share a moment with them. So her best friend called my W and then my W called me "Come and pick up the stuff and bring it to the car!".
So I went and picked up the stuff, except her personal bag. I asked her if she would meet me at the car, but she said nothing. She was staring at the water. So I told her that I will pick up the stuff and bring it to the car as she asked me to. She never came to the car. Her best friend called again and we spoke for 40 mins and she said she tried to call her but my W didnt answer. So I hid the chairs and umbrella under the front of the car (remember that she had the keys) and went to the beach to look for her. I found her standing on the shallow water and looking at the horizon. I apologized again to her about the FU word, but she started arguing. We kept arguing and then she walked away along the shore. I followed her and tried to reason with her, but she would not listen, then walked away again. So I stopped following her. At that point I called my cousin. I called him earlier to let him know about the situation, but I asked him to please not to tell anybody in the family. I also told him to wait to see if I can fix the situation with my W first. Throughout the whole argument my W said to me "do not touch my stuff...get away from me...etc." I asked him if he could pick me up, and he said "off course". Then my W called me and said "Come and find me in the beach!". I had no idea where she was. So I went and found her, but she was even more pissed off than before. It turns out that my mother texted her the following message; "Why do you insist on hurting my son, whose only desire is to love you?". At that point I knew that my family found out about this mess. I explained my W that I never called my mother, but that I called my cousin so he can pick me up because she (my W) didn't wanted me to be near her or to touch her stuff. Then she yelled at me and said "You stupid! now you gave your family even more weapons against me!". I apologized to her and I said that I really didn't wanted this to happen. At that point my mother called me and asked me what was going on. According to my mother, she thought that my W hit me and drove away and left me stranded. I clarified to her that that was not the case. So I went back to my W and she was so upset with me, crying and saying "why did you do this to me!...why would you put your family against me?". I again asked for forgiveness for telling her "f..u" and for the fact that the family knew what was going on with us at the beach.
At that point she started saying things like "it is not worth it anymore, I would like to end this here and now!...There is no purpose for me to live anymore!". I started getting worried, but it got worse when she said "I don't want to live anymore..there is no point of being alive!". Then she started to walk towards the water. Keep in mind that now it is 11:00pm and we are at the beach, completely dark! I kept her from going to the water, then she said "Stop acting like you care about me!...you only cared about you and your f..ing family!." But I still made sure she wasn't going to hurt herself. She also said "if I dont do it now, I will do it later at home!." Then she sat on the shore and handed me her car keys and told me to leave. Off course, I stayed right next to her. But it was now 12:30 am and she was sitting down with her head down without saying anything. The only thing she said was "I will end this tonight, just go away and dont worry about me!...I always loved to die in the ocean..." Now, I have no idea what else to do or to say, because she was not listening to me at all. I was talking and she was silent, or she talked over me. It was like I wasn't there! So I warned her; "Baby, please lets go home. Lets talk about this in the car and/or at home. Is late and we both need to rest. We can talk on our way home..." But she didn't replied. After 30 minutes I told her "Listen, you are talking about suicide, and I wont let that happen. So if you do not respond to me, I will call 911 and let them know of your thoughts." She said "I dont care anymore". So after several minutes trying to reason with her, I called 911; "Yes, my W has made suicidal expressions...we are at the beach..." Then they asked for her description and name, but I declined to give that information. Then my W stands up and says; "You dumb f..ck!...you are gonna get me in trouble at work!...they are very picky with the employees' mental health!..." So she snatched the phone from my hand and spoke with the dispatcher; "Im his W, and I apologize for everything. I am ok, but my husband has been drinking and is being emotional..." So now I am supposedly drunk (I only had one beer the whole day!) but I let her do it and I spoke with the lady and admitted that I was being emotional (but not drunk). At that moment, my W raises her hand like she was going to hit me, so I said "(W'S NAME)..NO!..." So now 911 has her name, what a mess!! After that, the dispatcher told my W to go to the cops in the parking lot so they can debrief her and me, so we can close the case. At first she agreed but as we walked towards the parking lot she had second thoughts and preferred not to talk to the cops. She kept cursing at me all the way to the parking lot; "You dumb f..ck! Wtf is wrong with you?...are u stupid?...Now you have built a case against me, and they will find out at work!..." We then started to drive home. We were 1.5 hours away from home. She kept arguing and telling me not to yell at her and not to use curse words. So I stopped the car at a parking lot and I told her how I felt. I told her that I am tired of her irrational behavior in public, because it happened before even in front of the family, at church, at restaurants, etc. So she then said "I'm sorry for everything that happened". She was still very upset tho. So I kept driving home, but she didn't said a word at all. Once we got home I told her that I still wanted to leave for just that night. It was 2:30am. We entered the apt and headed to the bathroom. She then said "I dont want to change your mind, but please dont leave...". She referred to an incident that happened a week earlier in which she wanted to leave me forever but I convinced her to stay and work things out. It took me 2 hours to convince her, and around 40 minutes staying under the rain (while she was in her car) in order to convince her. Then she asked me to get in my knees or else she will leave, and I did.
But back to the story, I asked her two questions: "Do you love me?" She said "yes", and "Do you respect me?", she replied "yes", then I said "Then please let me go for tonight, and I will be back tomorrow. I promise!". So I grabbed some clothes and left. It was 2:30 am, and I headed to my aunt's house, where my parents were staying for the night. I texted her before going to sleep, but she never replied. That morning I woke up at 9am and texted her again, but no response either. So I spoke with my aunt and uncle and my parents about the incident. They all thought that my W hit me and drove away. I clarified this with them because she never hit me nor left me stranded at the beach. After this I called my W (it was 12pm'ish) and she didn't replied. Then I called again and she finally picked up the phone. I asked how was she doing, she replied "Sup? I'm doing fine...". I asked her if she wanted to talk, but she said she wasn't home. So I told her that I will be home during the afternoon or probably later. So later that day I received a call from a mutual friend (he still communicates with me) because he wanted to talk to me. I told him my side of the story but not the full version of it. We spoke for an hour and a half. He basically told me to man up and put my family on their place, and not to let them dictate my life. I kind off agreed with him, knowing that it wasn't all my family's fault. I then went in the apartment and she was laying in bed. I said hi to her and asked how she was doing, she said "fine". I asked if we could talk, but she declined the offer. So I went sleep in the sofa that night (and stayed there for almost 2 months!). She didn't said anything during that day or the next day. Then the next day she came from work and started packing her stuff. I then stopped her and asked her if she could please talk to me. She finally broke the silent and started talking. She said that I abandoned her and ran to my family, and that I preferred my family knowing how they felt about her (my W). She also said that I left her after she begged me to stay, and that I keep involving my family in our business. She said that I left everybody in my family to enter our marriage and "abuse" her over and over while I was watching and doing nothing about it. The finally she said that she wanted a divorce and that she has a petition of Dissolution of Marriage. I cried so hard because she seemed so convinced on finishing our marriage. According to her that was the only way out because "there is too much damage done". I told her that my family knows that what happened at the beach wasn't as bad as they thought, and that they may still upset because of what happened at the wedding rehearsal night and not because of the incident at the beach. But she said that there is no more hope. She said "I love you, but I love me more." From that day on, hell fell upon our lives.
Good morning everyone!
I first apologize for the long long novel. It was a 7-hour long argument and I tried to keep it as short as possible. And still, there were many facts left out of the story. But I kept the most important facts on the story.
To this day, she still does not acknowledge that she asked me to give her a minute in the water. Also, she recently said that she deserved to "vent out" to me in that way because of all that happened at the wedding rehearsal (refer to the first page).
I know I shouldn't tell her the FU word. I know it was insensitive and immature. But before all that happened, she was already cursing my family by saying "ypu are just like your f...ing family, like you f...ing brother..." I feel like we both disrespected each other that day. But she never fully apologized for what she did to me.
What do you think about this. Thank you in advance.
The finally she said that she wanted a divorce and that she has a petition of Dissolution of Marriage. I cried so hard because she seemed so convinced on finishing our marriage. According to her that was the only way out because "there is too much damage done". I told her that my family knows that what happened at the beach wasn't as bad as they thought, and that they may still upset because of what happened at the wedding rehearsal night and not because of the incident at the beach. But she said that there is no more hope. She said "I love you, but I love me more." From that day on, hell fell upon our lives.
First of all, remember that "actions" and words are not the same thing.
Second understand that when she picks a fight with you, she is picking a fight with you. You have the option to get sucked into a fight or to not get sucked into a fight with her. Yes she knows all your hot buttons, but now you know how she is trying to manipulate you into fighting with her.
You need to learn how to let her say hurtful things and do hurtful things and let that bounce off you. When you accomplish that, you will have done a heck of a 180 and shown her you are a different man with greater skills who will not be playing the same old game. That should force her to treat you differently.
Again, she may have divorce papers read or she may not, let her actions speak not her words.
Read DB and don't let her get to you. Often times a spouse will know all your hot buttons and will do something so you lash out. Then they can play victim, which sounds like what your W was doing.
Good luck.
You are right, Young At Heart. I recently spoke with her and she still wanted me to help her pay for the phone bill. She insisted so much that I agreed to help her only for this month. To this day, she hasn't paid her part and now my phone is going to be disconnected (we are sharing a line under my name).
But anyways, that day I spoke with her and she brought up the same old topic again. She said that I abandoned her, that I preferred my family over her, etc etc. Then she got very agitated, and hung up the phone on me. I didn't call her back, I didnt text her. 5 minutes later she texted me "I dont want to argue."
Then she called to apologize:
W: "I am sorry for hanging up the phone on you...I dont want to argue."
Me: "ok, I dont like arguing either. I will help you for this month."
W: "Thank you!"
Me: "Enjoy your TV show"
W: "Ok thank you. Have a restful night"
Me: "You too. God bless you."
I must admit that this situation didn't really hurt me at all. This happened before and I used to get very emotional. My heart is either stronger or dried up. I still have love for her, but my constant attempts to save the relationship failed greatly, which caused me to step back and do a 180. I am not an expert but I try not to let her get to me.
Since the past 5 months I have been going to the gym, cooking healthy food and dressing up better. I was very skinny and now I reached a healthy weight (mostly muscle). I moved out from my old apartment (it was too expensive for just a 1/1) into a cheaper one on a different location. I feel more at peace, almost no stress at all, more focused and happy than when we were together. I feel like Im myself again. I wasn't 100% happy with her (maybe 80%), but I wanted our relationship to reach that "happy level". I was willing to work hard at it. I will keep praying and doing my thing. No more games. No more the same'ol thing!
...she got very agitated, and hung up the phone on me. I didn't call her back, I didnt text her. 5 minutes later she texted me "I dont want to argue."
Then she called to apologize:
...I must admit that this situation didn't really hurt me at all. This happened before and I used to get very emotional. My heart is either stronger or dried up. I still have love for her, but my constant attempts to save the relationship failed greatly, which caused me to step back and do a 180. I am not an expert but I try not to let her get to me.
Since the past 5 months I have been ... I feel more at peace, almost no stress at all, more focused and happy than when we were together. I feel like Im myself again.
... I will keep praying and doing my thing. No more games. No more the same'ol thing!
WAY TO GO!!!!
As MWD advises you have disengaged, done a 180, and are working on GAL and you are seeing and feeling the difference it is making.
Let me tell you she will be noticing the differences as well and if you keep it up, she will have to treat you differently. Hopefully, the difference will be a way that you like and a way that can be used to rebuild your relationship and marriage.
One of the things that happened when I lost weight got in better shape and strated dressing better was that women friends of my wife commented on how good I looked and how lucky my wife was to have me. That forced her to not take me for granted. She knew other women were checking me out and that if she walked away, one of them might walk in. It created a competition situation where she needed to compete, which was something she hadn't done in decades.
Way to go. Take yourself out, and do something to congratulate yourself on an initial step well done. Keep it up and you will get the love/relationship you want and deserve.
I have just read thru your thread and I am very sorry for your situation. The way you have described everything that has happened - plus your wife's history of abuse - I am wondering has she ever had Individual Counseling - for the mental flotsam (PTSD possibly) that all childhood abuse leaves?
Thank you for your words, Young at Heart. She already started saying things like "You look good...I see that you are getting big". She even touched my chest and arms. She also said things like "I don't know if I have made a good decision by moving out of here...I have started to question my decisions lately...". Then she added "All of those hurtful things that I said to you I only said it out of anger, I didnt really mean it..." But then she brings back the same old story and start arguing and I just listen.
I had to move out from our old place because, since she left, I got stuck paying for a very expensive apartment. In fact, after paying all the bills, I had a cushion of $25 per month!! So I moved out to a cheaper apartment.
She is a great person, but I think I cannot understand how she felt about this whole situation. Maybe I failed to protect her heart from the circumstances. Maybe I am too immature for a lifetime commitment. I don't know yet. One thing is for sure; I love her with all of my heart.
I am wondering has she ever had Individual Counseling - for the mental flotsam (PTSD possibly) that all childhood abuse leaves?
Hello Bob. Yes, as far as I know, she received help. In fact, when we started dating around 2 years ago, she was attending her therapies every Tuesdays. But now that you mention this, she stopped attending her therapy because "the therapies were about to end", so there was no purpose to keep going that far (the therapy center was around 40 mins away). The therapist focused on Coping Skills and other areas that dealt with behavioral issues.
As a matter of fact, I took individual therapy for the issues that I believe led us to our current situation, which are anger (for example, when I yelled FU at her at the beach), insecurities (sometimes I doubt my own decisions), and depression (because of the whole wedding and separation thing).
I hope I answered your question. For now, have a happy Thanksgiving Day!
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
Please take everything I say here with a grain of salt (or more!)
You are living your situation and I am far removed in many ways, now. But I think I had to deal with some of these same type issues almost 50 years ago - when I was 19 and married my first wife who had just turned 17 and was pregnant.
We were both caught up in a KISA-DiD trap situation (Knight In Shining Armor "rescues" Damsel in Distress). She felt she had a VERY unhappy childhood and that her parents "abused" her - especially her Mom - by tieing her up and locking her in her room to control her, e.g. Her parents were much older and her older siblings were already either in college or just about out of HS when she was born. She was an "accident" unplanned child just as her parents "Golden Years" were about to start. One reason she finally gave in to my own pressure for her to have sex after 10 months of "going steady" dating (yeah - some KISA, eh? ;-( ) may have been her conscious/unconscious desire to just get out of that household as soon as she could. In 1968 that pretty much DID mean marriage for a pregnant girl if the guy was in ANY way shape or form willing. And I was willing.
But she would do some things that I thought seemed kind of crazy - and we did get her into counseling which I also was involved in just a tad so I could be aware of some of her issues.
I THINK I was told back then how very tricky this kind of situation is - for everyone involved. My wife was actually pretty smart - though dropping out of HS obviously she hadn't learned a whole lot yet. (She later had no problem getting her GED thru night school and even started some night college classes.) But I was told that what might be considered "crazy" or at least "irrational" behaviors or responses by her were actually QUITE rational to her - just given her background. Her basic "assumptions" about people and especially "loved ones" was quite different from my own very happy childhood with a TOTALLY consistently loving mother as my own personal childhood emotional "rock". She didn't have that and it made for great ongoing fear and trust and intimacy issues.
For one thing, my wife could absolutely not STAND the slightest criticism from me about anything at all. Period. I just could not go there - even things I would consider benign and nothing but "positive" "you might be able to do that better if you..." - nothing but extreme emotionally negative response from her. It takes a long time for a person to get over some things in their childhood - and I don't know that my ex-wife ever really totally did. We WERE married for 9 years, and after our divorce she remarried another guy within a year and has been with him ever since. So, I guess she worked it all out, somewhat.
Again, your wife and situation is different - but it just struck me as a tad familiar. But even you suggesting counseling for your wife, now, might set her off because I think you may have been tipped over into the "unsafe person/can't trust" column in her own mind. A place you obviously don't want to be and never thought you would be. But that is what just ONE yelling at her or forcefully touching her might do - which may seem unfair but is merely defensively logical to her - depending on just how bad her previous abusive history MIGHT be. (Again - I really don't know. Just some food for thought, maybe, and further careful investigation for truthful knowledge on your part. Again - be very careful of seeming to appear to her even further "untrustworthy". It can seem to be a huge Catch-22 kind of situation. Very hard for you to do the right thing. Maybe just revisit the 1st Corinthians definition of "love" and always keep that in the back of your mind when trying to communicate with your wife...)
...Then she added "All of those hurtful things that I said to you I only said it out of anger, I didnt really mean it..." But then she brings back the same old story and start arguing and I just listen.
I had to move out from our old place because... after paying all the bills, I had a cushion of $25 per month!! So I moved out to a cheaper apartment.
She is a great person, but I think I cannot understand how she felt about this whole situation. Maybe I failed to protect her heart from the circumstances. Maybe I am too immature for a lifetime commitment. I don't know yet. One thing is for sure; I love her with all of my heart.
Repeat after me, its not all your fault. Its not all your fault. It takes two to make a marriage really work. Often it only takes one to destroy a marriage.
Your commitment, your protecting her heart are ways you are trying to shoulder more of the blame than you deserve.
If she complements you, says she made a mistake and then starts down the same old road of rants, she is the one that is immature, not you.
You need to work on your GAL, become the best most fascinating man she has ever seen, one who her girfriends want to know if she is through with you so they can date you.
One that she knows on everylevel is a keeper she let go and regretes doing so.
When that happens, if you as a mature integrated man approach her, she will respect you and treat you with respect and try to earn your love, or she just isn't mature enough to know what she had.
Good luck to you. The Holiday season is rough.