http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...857#Post2489857Not sure if this link works -- I'm trying to link to my past thread. The last one was full.
Had a dream about H last night in which we were connecting, possibly working on R. I woke up feeling sad and a bit hopeless about the situation.
Nothing seems to be changing. H has been out of the house for nearly two months now. It's been three since BD. I know I'm supposed to be patient, but he gives me no signs that anything is changing or will change.
I'm committed to waiting until January, but this is so hard. I'm not sure I even want to stay married to him, but I can't just turn on a dime.
He has to renew his health insurance through work next month. He plans to drop me from his plan. I'm self-employed so I'll be shopping for my own in the coming months. This means I get to pay for my upcoming MRI by myself, and he obviously doesn't care about my health or well-being. But he does want to add himself to my daughter and my gym membership as a family. Probably just to save money?
This is torture.
Ahoy if the insurance is a money issue for him could you just reimburse him the extra cost for you to stay on his plan? You are still M right? It's going to be cheaper for you than getting your own.
Hi rppfl! He doesn't want to keep me on his insurance, even though we are still married, so I have no room to argue unless I go the begging, pleading route, which I can't do.
Bottom line: he doesn't care.
It's sad, but at the same time, being dependent on him and the threat of him pulling my insurance later in the year if we D makes me anxious. So it's worth the expense for my peace of mind, and to get some financial distance from him.
Honesty, if he does drop me, I don't see why I should stay married to him. That's a pretty big issue for me (since I have brain tumors). Maybe I would consider a relationship still, but without the legal ties. (He is really irresponsible with money, and if he's not there to see me through in sickness and in health, then what's the point?)
Ahoy,
If he drops you and you get back together it will still be a year before he can re add you to the policy. Have you talked to a lawyer yet? If you file either for a divorce or a separation he cannot drop you as temp court orders take place. You may consider this.
Ahoy, I agree with Lifes Twists. You need some legal advice here. Even if you D, you may be eligible for COBRA for as long as 36 months. Your pre-existing condition makes this worth checking into. It's bigger than "H doesn't want to keep me". Take care of you.
Thanks Life Twists, I'm not ready to file anything legally because I'm afraid it will precipitate D on his end. I think I'm just going to have to rely on myself. It's okay. I'm a big girl, just a disappointed one.
I think that's despicable of him, but where does that mind frame get you? I'm sorry he wants to do that, isn't family insurance around the same premiums regardless of how many? I would be thinking " I know what he thinks about me right now" which doesn't help anything.
Ahoy, sorry to hear you are dealing with this. It almost seems petty on his part. Like he is trying to "get" you. i hope you are able to resolve this issue!
I think it will be semi-affordable -- probably twice as much as before, but it's worth my financial independence, and if we do D, it will get factored into the equation. Luckily, with the new health laws, my preexisting condition won't factor into my application, so I should be okay.
You're right sjallda. It does send me down a rabbit hole of negative thinking. I mean, what chances are there that he will want to reconcile (January is our established month to decide) if he's already ditching me?
I guess I need to move on in my heart and just take care of myself.
What I really want is to move back to my home state to be with my family, but that would be back for D14, and turn everything into a legal mess.
I could consult with a L but I know they would just push me to file -- and I'm not ready.
Feeling trapped and alone and abandoned stinks. I really have to work on PMA -- for my own benefit.
Thanks for all the words of support!
Lots of crying today. Just can't seem to shake that feeling of abandonment and worthlessness. I know it's part of the roller coaster but I wish this would pass. Just so sad. I miss being held.
Me too.
Sending you internet hugs, FWIW.
Aw Ahoy, sounds like he is being a real bonafide AHOLE!!!
Who would do that? I don't get it. It sounds so punitive, like he is furious with you and wants to hurt you. Is he mad or upset? Why would he need to take you off the insurance?
I don't get these WAH. Why are THEY angry/hurt when they chose to leave?
I'm really sorry about the situation. Just know that things can always turn around if you still want them to, but I know it really hurts and stinks right now.
I think it is really strong of you to want to be independent and not beg him to keep you on the insurance. I admire your strength. I don't really know enough about your story but do you think your need to be independent might be part of the problem? I only ask because that has caused issues for me in the past.
Sending you hugs and good thoughts!
Lisa
Lots of crying today. Just can't seem to shake that feeling of abandonment and worthlessness. I know it's part of the roller coaster but I wish this would pass. Just so sad. I miss being held.
Ahoy, I am right there with you. I had a June BD and late July S. No movement since then. At least my WAW has not been an A$$ like that, and I also don't have your health issues to deal with. You are strong just for standing on two feet today. I know all about the roller coaster, too. I was thinking of making a graph of my emotions. I was really flying high from mid August until about 2 weeks ago, now I'm down in a hole again, but feel like I'm climbing back out. The only thing that has got me out of these dips is to keep pursuing GAL/detach, and seeking companionship throughout the day. I thought I didn't really have friends at work until all of this went down. As people started finding out, I have been blown away at the hearts of people. When the well runs dry for a day or two with people around you, that's (partially) what these forums are for. Or if you're struggling late at night, etc. We're listening! As soon as I saw Ahoy on the front page again, I clicked, because we are on such similar timelines.
I also understand your apprehension for contacting an L. I have the same reservations, for the same reasons. But I also don't have your medical situation. It really sounds like you need to protect yourself in that regard. Perhaps you could speak with an L and be upfront that you do not want to file. If they push for that, you walk out. I'm sure you know, but medical bills in situations like that could be life changing.
Remember, right now he is not the man that you married 15 years ago, or maybe even the man you were married to 1 year ago. He is a different, selfish, seemingly terrible person right now. Do not operate like he is the same man. If you don't want to give up on the M, which I commend, don't lose hope that the previous man (or a new and improved one) could return someday. But at the same time, don't expect anything like that. Changes like that will be a long road, and it will be initiated by him. So in the meantime, focus on yourself. #1 priority is your health, so start there.
What is your support system like (close friends, family) in your immediate area?
Ahoy:
A little more support for you. Must be something in late September...I felt awful the last two weeks and am just now coming out of it. My thread reflects same.
If you can become independent, and that suits you, do so.
If you D, then remarry, he can put you back on. And like others have said, with D (or legal S) filed, he shouldn't be able to drop you.
Ahoy- I'm sitting in the airport typing this out on a phone, so I apologize up front for the typos. Your husband is being an @&$)(&&!!! (that wasn't a typo). Do what you feel is the best thing for your health-I tend to side with those saying he should keep you on (by legal order if necessary), but I know each situation has it's nuance-and you will figure out the best course of action- because your posts always sound very strong and sensible to me.
Seriously, though, I am righteously indignant on your behalf!
Ahoy ... everyone here can relate .. thats why we all seem to have migrated here.
Just a few things .. 1. I am sorry for your sitch ... I echo the sentiments on what a D-B move he did and I am not talking Divorce Busting, however that brings me to my 2nd point.
I know you feel that nothing has moved, I get there too, but be very careful putting a timeline on it. My ILYBINILWY came over a year ago, she moved out Nov 8th, OM was admitted Jan .... and here I am ... a year later. I told myself a few months ago .. Nov 8th and I am done ... well its coming and I do not see us being where I had hoped .... but ya know what, we are not where we were a year ago either. I do not know if my M will make it. But I do know if I give it a deadline, it will actually be dead on that date. If that's what you want ... so be it ... read enough and everyone has a limit and sometimes that limit is what results in the big turn around, but you have to work on you and be a person the WAS would be a fool to leave first before that card has any power to it.
Point is, for me .. somedays I wanna drop the rope, some days I hold onto it tightly ... sure there are a few I would like to wrap it around a neck ... hers or mine I struggle with ...lol .. thing is .. you will know when to let go for you, not for him, holding onto a date in my perspective, is setting yourself up .. giving yourself expectations... and we all know about those!
I can't thank you guys enough! I have been in a really low spot, and it is so encouraging to have your support. (I do have lots of friends and family checking in on me daily, but I suspect they are tired of my endless loop of anger/sadness/hope/despair.) I'm trying to come out of the hole.
Just to set your minds at ease -- I have benign brain tumors of the lining of the brain (meningiomas). I had three large ones removed two years ago, and the rest (three or so) have to be monitored by MRI every 9 months to see if further surgeries are necessary. The MRIs are expensive, even with insurance. But the good news is that I'm well, overall, and fully functional (coaching my daughter in soccer, doing headstands in yoga). Aside from the crazy scar under my hair, you'd never know I have a head full of garbage!
Lisa -- my H is not angry or vindictive, just selfish and cheap. Here is a man I supported as a stay-at-home dad for two years, put through grad school for three, and moved and left good jobs in order for him to further his career twice. I work full-time (now self-employed), and also did all the cleaning, dinners, child care, bill-paying, doctor appointments, kid's lessons, etc. Mainly I did this because I'm good with multi-tasking and time management and he has ADD and works all the time. I thought I was doing all that out of love so he'd have time to focus on his work. And now? I guess he resents me for it. Says he enjoys living on his own, doing his own laundry (what on earth stopped you these past 15 years?!), and being a "big boy." Well, I don't want a big boy, I want a real man who wouldn't walk out on his family for no good reason just to "find himself."
The only time he expressed anger is when I asked him if there was someone else (defensive much?) and when we discuss financials (cheap and selfish much?).
I am a very independent person, but I also realize I was completely meshed with him and there probably was a lot that I took for granted (that he would always be there, for instance). I should have given him more responsibilities with the house and kid. I should have listened more.
At the same time, he took me for granted (and all that I did for him and the family); almost never volunteered to do things around the house unless asked; and didn't share his feelings with me, so I was blindsided when the time came.
I acknowledge that I had shortcomings in the relationship in this regard (who doesn't?), but as I told him, I think it would be worth it to work on these issues to see what's possible before tossing the M away.
Card, I feel grateful that I do have support -- I hike daily with a rotating cast of great girl friends. My siblings and parents call throughout the week, and I have been going out and GALing every night on the weeks when I don't have my D.
Shakes, Thanks for the support. I'm okay with getting a D if that's what he wants. But I won't remarry. Maybe that makes me rigid, but I can't see wanting to be legally bound to someone I'm not sure I can ever fully trust again. I might rekindle our relationship, but not marry him.
Right now, though, I don't even want to be with him, even though I spent all of yesterday crying pathetically about the reality of possible divorce.
So confusing!
Sorry for the long post... I just have so much going through my head these days.
Love you guys!
Ahoy, I agree, it is confusing to be upset over losing them at the same time we struggle to find the good. I'm theoretically good with BEING divorced, but GETTING divorced gives me panic attacks.
Thanks for checking in with me. Hugs to you too!!!
Ahoy:
I can respect your all or nothing answer. I, on the other hand, knowing how much damage I did, intend to wait it out on the other side for quite a bit.
So feisty!
Got some great advice from a friend yesterday. She pointed out that I was making myself crazy by sitting on the fence whether I should push to end things earlier by getting the paperwork started or commit to waiting. She said, what kind of person do you want to see yourself as when this is over -- someone who was patient or someone who was reactive. Good point! I do want to act out of love, not fear. So she said, you have to commit to one direction or another for your own sanity. So I'm committing to waiting until January, and possibly longer, unless he initiates things earlier. It's still hard at times, but this was advice I needed to hear. So I'm releasing the anxiety I have about being in limbo. This is just where I am; nothing is changing at the moment; and whatever change comes my way I am capable of handling, so I don't need to be afraid.
Having dinner with sweet friends who invited me and D14 out to dinner, then wine and a movie with neighbor friends on Friday, going to hear live music followed by a bonfire at my place with D's friend's family Saturday. Yesterday D and I did yoga and played racketball. It's been fun GAL with her as well -- opens up new interactions in our relationship as well.
Thanks for all the support this week. I think the fear and anxiety related to the health issues/health insurance really got me down. But there are no guarantees in this life, are there?
PS the January deadline is something H and I came up with because otherwise he was planning on filing sooner. I said that if he could just wait until January to decide, then I would grant him a dissolution (which is cheaper) if that's what he wanted, and that if he didn't know at that time, then we could wait until his lease runs out in August.
Ahoy: I too have a January date looming in the future. Also, we are going the route of dissolution because divorce is so combative and conflict oriented. The dissolution process is all about working together and agreeing on terms. In my state we get to decide everything from splitting assets to setting support to living arrangements.
Hi Ahoy,
Thanks for the clarification on the angry/vindictive vs cheap and selfish situation. I just don't get why he would want to take you off his insurance now. But I completely understand what you are saying about your relationship dynamics. I too "took care" of my H and he took me for granted and now is acting like he is very happy to do his own laundry. Then why the F didn't you do it ONCE while we were together? I don't get it. But I think I also did take for granted that he would always be there, and I became complacent and a bit boring in the relationship because of that. I own my part in that.
Glad to hear that you are doing well healthwise and also that you are GALing to the max. Sounds like you are having fun!
We all have these up and down moments. When you are in the down one just remember that it too will pass. Not easy to do but at least the down is not forever.
Hugs, Lisa
LisaB,
I bet I didnt do 5 loads of laundry in my 15 years of M. A few days after my BD I threw a load in and grabbed the finished load and folded it. I lived on my own for 7 years and instantly remembered how it was done. I have kept going. In fact, I do 2/3 of the laundry now. It helps kill time, makes me feel useful, prepares me for when W leaves and provides time when I am not thinking about BD and her leaving.
About 3 weeks into it my wife exploded on me about the laundry. She said that I was almost taking away her identity by doing the laundry. That confused the heck out of me so I backed off. Now, I am still helping but I am careful not to do too much.
Lisa, thanks for chiming in -- your interactions with your H sound very familiar! Nice to know sometimes that we're all in the same crappy boat -- at least we have good company!
bdub -- that's kind of hilarious that your wife thinks of laundry as part of her identity. That speaks volumes. Also that she wouldn't realize that you were trying to help out.
Of course, the first load of laundry my H did was after his secretive trip out of town -- and he just did his own laundry (which is suspicious) and didn't do any of mine or D14's. That's his idea of being a "big boy." Pretty ridiculous.
Ahoy,
It really opened my eyes re: our M. Of course this was a day after she told me she really had wanted more kids, wished she would have had breast cancer instead of our friend (for attention), and that several times in the past she had intentionally started fights with me.
She was DEEP in the fog and really unsettled emotionally. The Alien in her head was pretty new to her and it was still jostling for room in her brain.
I am sure there was some truth to what she said, but I know we talked for a few years about the kid thing. We would have had a 3rd if it was guaranteed to be a D not a S. We even invested time and money into considering adopting a D.
Maybe TMI, I dont know but 4 years ago I got snipped and she had to sign off on it. We talked about it again at that time and she was 100% ok with just having the 2 boys.
FYI the first loads I did were everyones clothes combined. I even had her teach me how she did it so I could do it her way.
Who knew laundry was such an important part of relationships!?
I started doing much more around the house after an episode 4 years ago. I'm sure the wife appreciated it, but would often chime in. "Oh, you don't have to do that, you've had such a long day." I kept doing it anyway. At least she started to realize that the messmakers were the kids - and we needed to train them properly. I helped on that, too, setting a schedule up for homeschool chores the last two years; she was never really satisfied with it, but it did create accountability.
The D21 was the biggest problem, as she would often sleep until 2 in the afternoon, then up u/t 4AM. Other kids would look at the sitch and go..."Why does she get away with that." Created strain in 2012 and again in 2013 (Boomerang kid. I swear I taught her better.)
I thought Acts of Service was my wife's love language. More like a chat with chums.
I show love through acts of service, but I think H must have needed more touch and affirmation, for what it's worth.
bdub, my H is snipped too so at least I don't have to worry about him starting a second family (unless he gets a reversal). I DO have to worry about him contracting VD (although that's really his problem, not mine, since we're not intimate these days).
I got my credit card bill and the only charges were his, even though I had asked him to transfer recurring charges to his own card. This has been an ongoing issue. I sent him a copy of the bill and asked how he wanted to handle his charges (we have separate accounts now), and mentioned that, because of a weird charge from last month that we couldn't determine, I was going to cancel that card so he should move over any recurring charges (his gym, website charge, etc.) This way I won't have to keep having the same conversation with him about misplaced charges every month. Then I cancelled the card, so one less thing to worry about. We determined that I would pay for his gym fee out of our joint account, since it wasn't much, and I told him he could reimburse me for the movie charges by bringing me some coffee (he had written to tell me that he was coming by to work in garage studio, which is at my place). BTW, he is paying for my health insurance through the end of this year in exchange for use of the studio. In Jan, I will start charging him rent or have some other means of reimbursement.
So he came over -- I was thankful for the coffee and friendly while he played with the cats (which he misses). D took him upstairs to see her new guitar from my dad (and he got to see how I converted his study into a music room). He cleared out one side of the garage (as requested) so I could park my car in there (he is a pack rat). And he also worked on his own art, I assume.
D and I had been invited to dinner with two of his friends and colleagues (who are also my friends). I didn't want him to feel excluded, so we left early to go to the library and then went to dinner from there so he wouldn't ask. (Not that he ever asks me anything these days.)
So here is my question: Why does he never ask anything about my private life? I thought this process of being mysterious might peak his curiosity in me and my life, but he seems wholly disinterested. Is it because he is so caught up in himself and his own head? Or is he glad to think I'm moving on so he can be free, and truly just doesn't even care what I'm doing?
Also, does he dream about me? (I KNOW no one can answer this -- it's rhetorical.) I dream about him constantly still, much to my chagrin.
Wish I had that memory-erasing stuff from "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."
Ahoy,
There could be several reasons he doesnt ask about your private life. 1) because its private. 2) he is more detached than you at this time 3) he "assumes" he knows whats going on 4) he just flat doesnt care 5) He is afraid of what he might find.
W and I are still living together and if I chose to go out (rare) I tell her where I am going, who I am with and what time I will be home. Simple courtesy. She has stated, each and every time, "I dont care". Those 3 words are a real kick in the jewels.
Re: The dreams. I find myself thinking about my W a lot through out the day. However, I have not had a dream about her in a few years. I suppose its because shes still home and "on the front burner" so to speak. For whatever reason my dreams tend to be about my childhood or some other distant past.
Sounds like we have the same issues about the 5 LL. Looking back, I was giving her what I needed instead of what she needed.
Lisa,
I wonder if there is more at play here than just laundry.....
There could be several reasons he doesnt ask about your private life. 1) because its private. 2) he is more detached than you at this time 3) he "assumes" he knows whats going on 4) he just flat doesnt care 5) He is afraid of what he might find.
I'm pretty sure in my case, my H just flat doesn't care. Not that I'm off doing piles of mysterious things, but on the occasions I do, he doesn't ask any questions whatsoever. He's been this way since BD, not asking about my day, about anything I attend, about friends, even about kid events that I attend but he doesn't. Not. One. Question.
Rppfl, that sounds like mind reading. You don't know why he doesn't ask.
(Mine doesn't either...and I don't think it's because he doesn't care. I don't ask about his life... It doesn't mean that I don't care about it!)
I wonder if maybe the WAS doesnt ask about your private life because they dont want to be asked about theirs?
Rppfl, that sounds like mind reading. You don't know why he doesn't ask.
Claire, you are quite correct. Thank you for that.
I wonder the same bdub! And truly, I don't want to know what sketchy things he's been up to, as it would just hurt me to know. I know it's pointless mind reading to try to guess what a WAS is thinking. Or to wonder, does he miss me at all? And yet, I keep coming back to those questions. I'm hoping it gets easier in time.
Wishing you all a good weekend, and thanks for all the encouragement, as always!
Also, does he dream about me? (I KNOW no one can answer this -- it's rhetorical.) I dream about him constantly still, much to my chagrin.
Hi Ahoy- I have a theory about why we dream about the WAS (I do every once in awhile, and when I do its pretty intense). I think we spend so much time right now GAL, doing 180s and being positive, that our mind still has to work through a lot of the negative stuff about our spouses and it forces us to do it whil we are sleeping. I personally have had to push aside a lot of stuff(betryal, etc)just to be able to function and stay upbeat around my girls. I guess it has to come out sometime.
Do they dream about us? I bet they do. You can't make that kind of massive life change without some deep thought- and they are clearly not doing that during their waking hours :-)
thanks, raliced. The dreams are my way of processing, and sometimes in my dreams I'm furious with him, other times loving. When it's the latter, I wake up feeling so sad (this is part of what threw me for an emotional loop earlier this week). I know it's part of the mourning process for my M. I know I won't be in this emotional state forever, but I sure wish it would pass.
I read on these threads about folks who have been standing, or working on piecing for YEARS, and I wonder if I'm up to the task. I want to be, but at the same time, how much of my lifetime is worth it, and how will I know if I'm making the right decision?
Part of my wants to be patient and let the situation evolve as it will, granting H full agency to do what he's going to do, one way or another, and another part of me wants to be over and done with this so I can move on with my life. Living in the uncertainty -- both relative to him, and to my own needs -- is difficult. I know that's what detaching is all about, though. Some days are harder than others.
Need to make GAL plans for next week!
It is a beautiful day here, and I am SO tempted to invite H to join us for an outdoor music event. I miss doing things as a family. So far, I have been NC since the separation, except to respond to him regarding daughter, and to coordinate things for daughter and financials. I have accepted one invitation from him to join him and daughter for dinner, and one invitation to go for a walk with him. Both were friendly, but nothing more. I know he misses my friendship because he's said as much, but I don't want to be put in the friend category.
So I do feel that NC gets results, but at what point is it okay to invite H along to family things. I don't want to pressure him, and frankly I'm afraid of rejection. Should I just stay the course? Need some advice!
The advice I got is that if you can make the invitation with no expectations, and you'd be going anyway, then you can/should make the invitation.
I'm wary of the friend zone thing, too, but it's a difficult path to tread, because friendship is the path to connection.
Let us know how it goes!
Do you think this will move you closer to your goal? Can you do it with no expectations and no pressure? Can you handle it if he says no?
It could be a great opportunity to let your 180s shine.
Eek! I guess I do have expectations, so maybe I'm not ready to invite him. I'm not ready to be rejected -- I think it will put me in a funk.
Also, when he asked for separation he said he needed space, so I feel like I'm pushing him if I were to invite him. I also told him that I wouldn't be initiating contact with him, since he was requesting space, but that I would welcome it if he initiated. So I guess I should stick to that?
It's been just over three months since BD. I don't know where he is in the MLC process, since he is not opening up to me. It's so hard to know what to do!
Maybe having him around for the afternoon would provide an opportunity to gauge where he is.
I struggle with this one a lot. I so want to be around or near my W. But then when I am, it makes it harder because it never goes the way we planned it or the way we think it should. My IC has a poster that says:
"It never goes THAT way"
Good luck. Regardless of what happens, get out and enjoy the good weather. In my area, the good weather days are becoming fewer and fewer!
Had a good day with D14. While we were out H texted to say he was coming by the house to get stuff from the garage. I told him what we were up to and mentioned that maybe we'd cross paths later, but we didn't because D and I ended up eating out. Probably for the best that I didn't invite him. As usual, it sounds like he was busy with work stuff (which involves the studio in the garage), and probably would have declined. I know this is mind reading on my part, but I'm trying to justify why it was probably good that I didn't invite him. And yes, bdub, if he had said yes, then it probably wouldn't have been what I wanted -- a loving family all together like old times. Those times are gone. Instead it would have been the three of us, with me pining for the old times, and him happy to have extra time with D and a chance to be "friendly" with me, but that's all.
I think maybe keeping distance is the way to go, unless he initiates. It gives me more peace, and that's worth a lot these days.
So, an hour and a half before I was due to bring D14 over to H's place, he calls and invites us to dinner to celebrate a work accomplishment for him -- something I've been supporting him with for the past several years. He wants to take me out to thank me. Turns out he wanted to celebrate all weekend, but didn't have people to celebrate with. Even though I'm the consolation prize, I'm glad he invited me (and picked up the check). It makes me feel like I did the right thing by waiting for him to initiate contact. I have to trust that he will seek me out on his own terms and in his own time, if that's what is to be. Anyway, immediately afterward I went out by myself and heard some fantastic music, and had a great night overall.
Feeling good right now, no matter what the outcome. I did get a hug after dinner. We had some fun reminiscences, but I have to say, I'm still not very attracted to him right now. I'm sure it's just because my view of him is tainted by all the hurt and confusion. I wonder if that will change in time if our circumstance change?
That is good news Ahoy!
It looks like pulling away has maybe pulled him toward you.
Don't forget to have no expectations though!
I think things can change. Your situation is still very new. Did you enjoy your dinner?
I will be careful not to have expectations! I think (mind reading) that he probably was just lonely for someone to share his good news with. He certainly didn't ask me anything about my work, or my family, or anything else about me. (This is standard for him, and he wonders why he doesn't have any close friends.)
Maybell, I did enjoy the dinner. I just think of it as having dinner with a friend, which is easy since I'm not feeling romantic toward him right now anyway.
I was able to appreciate that he wanted to thank me and be friendly, and am being careful not to attach any more importance to it than that.
Thank you & bdub for the responses! It's nice to have folks cheering me on, and to return the favor.
Hey, there, Ahoy. More cheers coming in from this angle. Glad to hear that you're "Doing what works". You and I need to take stock, as Maybell did in her thread, probably with a solutions journal.
Hello Ahoy, it sounds like the dinner was a positive experience, and it sounds like you're doing well. He may have wanted to share the good news with someone, but it's nice that he wanted to thank you specifically. Just caught up on your sitch and sending warm thoughts. Thanks for stopping by my thread the other day.
Forgot to mention that at the end of dinner he asked if I could keep D14 while he went out of town for a couple days for work (to the same place where I suspect he had an affair a couple months ago since he was very secretive about that trip). So perhaps the dinner was just his way of buttering me up to ask for the favor. Just like he asked me to take a walk when he wanted to ask to borrow the weed whacker. I hate to be suspicious and negative in my thinking toward him, but I'm also a realist.
I guess I should just be grateful for the free meal and leave it at that. I just wish he wouldn't string me along. And he never mentions ANYTHING about what he's feeling or thinking or doing. Nothing about the future or our relationship (which is good since I should be avoiding those topics anyway, I suppose). But STILL! It's crazy to sit through dinner and just smile and make small talk as if all is right in the world. What a weirdo!
They are living in some sort of of parallel universe, aren't they? If it didn't cause me so much pain, I would actually find it kind of fascinating. At least your daughter got to have dinner with both of you. I'm sure she enjoyed that.
She did! Plus she got to bring her boyfriend with her and sit at her own table with him. I think she enjoyed the feigned normalcy of it. Although I'm not thrilled how obsessed she is with new boyfriend, it's a nice distraction for her amid all this other stuff. Plus, the boyfriend's parents are also separated (mother wants to pursue relationships with other women). So at least they have that in common (the separation thing, that is).
Spoke to an old friend last night. She mentioned that she had noticed in recent years that H was unable to make real connections in conversations with others. He would pretend to listen to their story, then interrupt to talk about himself. This is consistent with what I've been seeing in him lately -- a trait that he inherited from his father. This inability to really listen and connect with others is likely why he feels that he has no close friends, and why he feels distant in our relationship -- or why he is looking for intimacy with someone else perhaps.
Bottom line: this is a person who is, for whatever reason, very self-absorbed and has difficulty connecting and caring (really caring) about others.
This is not someone I want in my life.
For me, happiness comes from connecting with others, building lasting relationships, friendships, and a sense of community. I had always provided this for H in the past, and he was perhaps dependent on me for those connections. Now he has to build them for himself, which is an important learning process for him -- one that he desperately needs. I hope he can figure this out for his own sake.
As for me, I'm grateful more than ever for my dear friends and the support of all the folks on this board. I know I'll be okay on my own without him, if that's what's to be.
Yesterday I Skyped with a friend in London whom I've known for twenty years. Later that night I spoke with a friend whom I've known for 25 years, and with another whom I've known for 37 years. Plus with my sister. And I went walking with a newer friend in the morning and had lunch with another newer friend.
I feel very fortunate. Thank you all.
Hi Ahoy. Rd here. Just read your posts and i am amazed at your strength. You seem to be doing great I hope everything turns out as you wish. Take care rd500
Hi Ahoy, isn't it odd to try to make small talk with the elephant in the room? But then at the same time you don't really want to discuss the elephant at dinner anyway!
I hope asking you for a favor wasn't his reason to take you to dinner, but with these crazy WAS you just never know what they are thinking or doing. And the self-absorbed thing is also such a huge part of their crisis I think. They can only think and talk about me memememeeeeeee. Well, it has also been a problem of mine lately but at least I tell my friends and family that I am aware of how self-obsessed I have become.
It's great that you were able to remain calm and confident at dinner, that's the most important thing in this marathon.
And kudos to you for all the long term friends. It really is a lovely thing to have that.
Hugs, Lisa
Agree....congrats to you for maintaining those friendships. I am jealous of people who have that. I am horrible at it, which has mad my situation more challenging. While there is pain in your situation, the fact that you have so many LT friends should be proof to you that you will be not just OK, but awesome. You have great friends on whom you can lean. Do not forget that. People with LT friendships are special people. You clearly invest in people, care about people and put other's interests ahead of your own.
Thank you guys for chiming in, and for the words of support! Even though I have great friends, I'm really trying not to overburden them with all my relationship talk these days! It's hard not to fixate and talk about this single topic nonstop. I have to catch myself sometimes and redirect my attention toward my friends and their lives.
Shodan, good to hear from you. I'm sorry you struggle with friendships. I don't think it's an uncommon issue for a lot of men at this stage in our lives. When I moved to this new town four years ago, it was depressing not to have friends here. It took a while -- and a lot of effort on my part -- but I now have plenty of friends here. But I had to reach out to them first in many cases, and invite them over, ask them to go on hikes, out to dinner, etc. The way the relationships became deeper and more meaningful was through the exchange of information and emotions. I expressed care for them, and vice versa. It also meant asking them a lot of questions about themselves -- which is not something that everyone feels comfortable doing. Anyway, this is the advice I wish I could give my H, but instead I'm sharing it with you in case it's of use. I've found that MeetUp groups are a good way of meeting others who are interested in making friends, too.
In other news: my father's swollen lymph node is benign! Thank goodness. I'm still glad that I booked my travel plans for the holidays in advance though. I got some slack on a different thread about dividing up the holidays and planning my travel separate from H, but I just can't take my chances with getting stranded and alone on a holiday when I could be with my family. I guess that's being defensive, but I'm being really open and accommodating about everything else, so I guess I feel I have to do this for myself.
Tonight I'm going to a music thing that D14 and I usually attend together, but H has to bring her since she's at his place. So I'll likely have to see and interact with him. Luckily, I'll be busy with the music stuff. I always have dread leading up to these encounters, and then they usually afterward I wonder what I was so worked up about. It's not like he's going to make a public proclamation or anything.
Hope you all have a fun and peaceful weekend!
Great news about your dad, Ahoy! Very pleased to hear that.
I so hear you about the dread of H encounters. I think even a couople months in, the weirdness of interacting with them on a level other than spouse is just too disconcerting. It doesn't help that I have a laundry list of DB suggestions (look great, smell great, be friendly, make eye contact)- it makes me feel like I am on a super important job interview and can't make a mistake every time I see him. I assume it must get better after awhile.
Good news on your father!
Argh. He just came by with D to pick up some clothes. He's wearing all new wardrobe himself (part of MLC, I know). His outfit looks good, although he's still sporting the hideous beard.
I don't get it. I'm not physically attracted to him. I'm not drawn to the kind of man who could do what he is currently doing to his family. I don't even really want to be with him. And yet, when he leaves I feel punched in the gut.
I guess it's just processing the loss. And still not knowing why and what's really going on. It's so hard to be okay with not knowing why my marriage is falling apart (even though I have my suspicions).
Sigh.
Ahoy, just checking in with the ladies tonight. Better than self-pity (too much of that, and anger, lately).
We will probably never know all of what's going on. Everyone has secrets. I look at it this way. Reconciliation is a two-person exercise. So was marriage. But time the S spends actively dismantling the marriage becomes blacked out, like a classified document in a spy movie. I may never know, I don't want to know, and I certainly will never believe my W about what was going on during those times. Even if we make it back to marriage.
So, transparency can only be requested (or demanded, depending on the sitch), when both parties are willing to work at the R. Anything that happens during the alien possession (thanks, bdub) will be lost in the mists of time.
Don't know if that helps. Just some thoughts.
Argh. He just came by with D to pick up some clothes. He's wearing all new wardrobe himself (part of MLC, I know). His outfit looks good, although he's still sporting the hideous beard.
I don't get it. I'm not physically attracted to him. I'm not drawn to the kind of man who could do what he is currently doing to his family. I don't even really want to be with him. And yet, when he leaves I feel punched in the gut.
Interesting, when you can step back (even if only for a minute) it IS rather amazing and odd and surprising.
So why the punched feeling? Either it's b/c your ego is wounded and you would not be alone with that, (we all have egos and we are allowed). AND OR
maybe it's that you still miss the man you thought he was, or may still be, down deep underneath all the anger and pain in his life. He may blame you for all that but maybe not.
I usually tell folks to LOSE THE ANGER, b/c for sure showing it to our spouses does NOT help us. Sometimes the anger can help you to detach,
IF IF IF ---THE ANGER DOES NOT CONSUME YOU...
b/c it sure does not hurt him. In fact, it tends to fuel his reasons for leaving and makes him more sure he's doing the 'right' thing. IF that bothers you, then re-think the anger.
I guess it's just processing the loss. And still not knowing why and what's really going on. It's so hard to be okay with not knowing why my marriage is falling apart (even though I have my suspicions).
Sigh.
I spent so much time asking WHY WHY WHY...and never got an answer that satisfied me.
So I'd ask you what answer would you find to be a "good enough" reason? B/C frankly I don't believe one answer will suffice or satisfy you. So I'd just let you know that it's a year of my life I'l never get back, spent asking a question that has no good answer.
Plus, it does not change YOUR course of action, does it? Of course you made mistakes in the marriage. OF course some of this is on you. OF course you have issues to work on.
But if the real question is whether you "Deserved this", then realize one thing.
You know the answer to that question. The answer to that question lies in you. SO dig deep and be brave and really examine what happened in your m as best you can tell.
OWN YOUR #@%& and repair the things in you that are broken. Become a woman only a fool would leave, no matter what he does. BE the best Ahoy you can be.
Once that has happened, once you make the changes you need/want to make, turn your marriage over to God (or the universe, higher power, etc) and hold your head up. Be at peace.
Til then, you have your work cut out for you and I'd ask that you focus on that.
B/c you have no control over your h, HIS answer to your question about "WHY?" may not even be true and that is if he wants to tell you.
And what he feels today won't be what he feels next week, so how can you rely n HIS perception??
IF there is OW, I'd say she's a symptom more than a cause. But that may make your detachment easier...
So, tell me if you know, what difference it makes to your course of action, if he's in a MLC or is a WAH,
and or if there is OW. I'm not saying it should not matter. Not at all.
Just asking you to prepare for an answer that 1) never comes or 2) you don't like or 3) does not "really" answer it for you.
IF I could pass one piece of advice on to you, it'd be this,
Either read my whole thread (no way, it's far too long)
or trust me when I say that I feel I wasted a YEAR of my life asking "WHY??? And never got a 'good" answer. I'd urge you to do differently.
Finally I detached for real, (b/c I GAL!) and accepted that my m was likely over but I found some peace knowing I had done my best, and I truly believed I was going to be alright no matter what h chose to do....I felt I was better off than he was as far as the kids and my conscience, and that mattered to me a lot. (Not the contest part about "beating him" but the part about my conscience being clear).
I guess that inner contentment radiated, or something showed to h, b/c all I know is sure enough once I got there, to that inner calm, within a few months my h started to have his awakening.
So, who knows if that was it?
I can only tell you MY experience and even if it did not wake my h up, I WAS HAPPIER and so were my kids. That was my answer I guess.
Good luck
Thanks for checking in with me, Shaks! And thanks for the advice 25. I'm definitely not angry anymore -- that would be a waste of my energy -- and I never once showed anger toward H throughout all of this.
I'm not dwelling too much on why, except that it would be nice to be able to explain why this is happening when daughter asks in a way that makes sense to her. All I can say is "I don't know. Your dad just needs to deal with his emotions and he needs space to figure out what he wants." She finds this nebulous and confusing (as do I), but that's all I can do.
25, I'm certainly not afraid of addressing my part in the demise of the marriage, I did everything for him -- EVERYTHING. My love language is acts of service, which is what I gave to him (when he likely needed affirmation), so he felt emasculated, now he wants to live on his own and be a "big boy" (his words). So for me the lesson is to let each person be responsible for themselves. Even though I like acts of service, it may be perceived differently on the other end. He must have felt that I thought he was incapable-- and to be honest, sometimes I did (he has ADD and is very forgetful, so I managed the money out of fear that he would damage our credit -- he was in credit card debt when we married, which I paid off for him). So that is knowledge gained that I can apply to my next relationship, whether with H or with someone else.
I don't waste time wondering why -- and I don't think it would really make much difference to know the reason. But it's hard when my daughter asks me direct questions that I'm not able to answer. And she thinks that her dad is willing to walk away for no good reason she can see.
But that is all beyond my control!
I am GALing my butt off. Saw H again last night when picking up D14 for an event, and he kind of invited me to join them at a festival tomorrow, but I suspect it's only as a buffer because one of her other friends (whose mother is a friend of mine) is also going, and he wants to spend time with them but he must suspect that they don't want to spend time with him (even though I've never given him this impression). However, my friend was left by her first husband, and she is definitely not liking my H right now. I called the friend on his behalf to see if they were going and they said maybe. So I just told H to text me if he wants me to come. I'll leave it at that. I also said I'm only available up until 6 pm because I have plans (to see a movie by myself, although he didn't ask).
I guess I shouldn't second-guess these invitations to spend dinners and outings with him and daughter, but I just wish I knew what was behind them.
PS the punched in the gut feeling is due to the disconnect between seeing someone you thought you knew and realizing he is not that person. It's not about ego, but it has a lot to do with processing the sadness that comes with the loss of illusion.
PS the punched in the gut feeling is due to the disconnect between seeing someone you thought you knew and realizing he is not that person.
I get it.^^^ And yes, it stinks.
It's not about ego,
maybe yes, maybe no, maybe partly. The thing is, you are allowed to have an ego. Some of it might not be "admirable" but some of it comes with self respect, and there is a fine line between the two.
I find that if you can remove the ego part of it for even a few minutes and look as realistically as you can, in the moment, at who your h appears to be now, (based on his present day actions and words), it helps to see and eventually believe, that you are not losing very much after all.
B/C the man you thought he was, is no longer there. You lost "him" awhile ago so the grief is real - but it's over something that is not a recent loss.
You just became aware of it recently.
Sort of like finding out your h died, two years ago. You're still very sad and shocked but then you realize,
"oh wait, all is not lost. I've actually been doing alright these past 2 years when I did not know he has passed away, so maybe I have not lost as much of my LIFE (and all I believed he meant to me and represented) as I thought. Maybe I'll be just fine without him..."
( I don't know if ^^^ that analogy helps, but I can hope.)
but it has a lot to do with processing the sadness that comes with the loss of illusion.
"loss of illusion..." AMEN to that. Thing is, it was an illusion sure, but it was one yo were counting on and you did not know it was an illusion when you were relying on it. So there's been a shift under your feet and it does take a major adjustment.
My therapist told me to tell the kids nothing about divorce unless they asked and even then, Not to say "yes we are divorcing" as long as there was a chance you would not. Unless I was "truly certain", that it was good to hold onto hope.
If my d's asked if we were divorcing, I'd say "I sure hope not, b/c I really loved your dad and we are working on things", or something along those lines. I also asked each daughter what their biggest concern was about the marital situation and for both of them, it was "not to move again". (We had been a military family and moving was frequent and more difficult as the kids got older. A lot more difficult). I DID reassure them that we (as in me and them) would not move until at least the older d had finished high school, which was 2 years later. That was my internal timeline and I knew that my limbo would end one way or another by then.
No, I didn't tell h that. It was for me to know and to tell myself that no matter what, this would Not go on forever...I only filed for a sep when I worried that h would mortgage our home for his "heroes" ideas for "investing" on the tundra.
So we wouldn't lose the house. About 2 years ago, (maybe 4 years after we left Alaska the 2nd time), H said he was so "glad WE did not sell our house for those guys", and I honestly don't think he recalls why HE could not sell (my name is on the house and our assets were frozen by the separation agreement. (So, oops.) But it does show how unaware he was/is about what happened and why.
I said nothing then, b/c sometimes that's the most loving thing to say.
I think you're doing well. Truly. Keep on posting, and keep on...keeping on
Thank you for all the insights, 25. It's good to hear from a vet.
I wish I could look back and realize that my marriage had been "dead" for a long time before BD, but the truth of the matter is that my H was sending me love letters just two weeks prior. LOVE LETTERS! So I was completely blindsided. I know, I know, he was probably sending them out of guilt because he had feelings for someone else, or was on the fence and trying to convince himself one way or another.
He was always a devoted and very loving and attentive person, and perhaps I did not reciprocate enough in ways that he needed (again, I'm realizing he needed LOTS of affirmation that I didn't provide).
Two years ago, the night before my brain surgery, we sat on a bench overlooking the water, and I told him that even if I died in surgery I would die happy because I had so much love in my life (meaning him). He said the same and more. In between that time and now, he had his own health scares with seizures, a lawsuit to contend with (he was being accused), and major work stress. I'm sure I played a part in everything, too. I was consumed with his health, holding down the fort, managing all the household stuff so he could focus on the other pressing issues. I think he just broke. And I can't say I blame him. He will have to choose his path, and I will have to choose mine. Right now I choose to do nothing except have fun and GAL and take care of my daughter.
Tonight I'm going to a yoga & wine tasting event; tomorrow to a girls' art night (fun!).
I did end up meeting him at the outdoor festival today. I still have no idea why he invited me, but it's easy enough to show up, see daughter, smile, enjoy the fun. I don't expect anything from it. However, I would LOVE to have mind-reading powers!
Que sera sera!
forgot to mention: so after H's new wardrobe threw me off last night, I resolved to go get myself some fall clothes this morning. So when I showed up at outdoor festival I was rocking an awesome new jacket and sweater. And I did indulge in some gray suede boots.
It's a not-so-cheap thrill, but new clothes do put me in a new frame of mind, make me feel in some small way like a new person. I'll take what I can get! I usually hate shopping, but this is one 180 that I think I can enjoy just for my own sake. Especially since I'm in great shape now due to the anxiety diet. (Hello abs -- where have you been all these years?0 I actually have to borrow my D14's pants because my own are too big right now. Hooray for silver linings!
Wow, you both sure did go thru a lot and yeah, sometimes it brings you closer, sometimes one or both of you, break.
But the thing about mind reading is this. I read over some of my journal entries from way back when...and I was SO angry at h. Pages and pages of my fury, most of which felt completely justified then, and a lot still feels that way.
However, I no longer feel so bad about my h, obviously. Even though I believed what I wrote back then, I did not tell h mud about it.
My point is that even if you could read your h's mind, today,
tomorrow or next week he would probably feel very different. Like getting a love letter from a man who wants out the m just a few weeks later.
So there you go. Feelings change. Theirs, ours, everyone's.
forgot to mention: so after H's new wardrobe threw me off last night, I resolved to go get myself some fall clothes this morning. So when I showed up at outdoor festival I was rocking an awesome new jacket and sweater. And I did indulge in some gray suede boots.
It's a not-so-cheap thrill, but new clothes do put me in a new frame of mind, make me feel in some small way like a new person. I'll take what I can get!
I so relate!
I figured "hey, If it's not breaking the bank, it's time to learn to like shopping!"
I usually hate shopping, but this is one 180 that I think I can enjoy just for my own sake. Especially since I'm in great shape now due to the anxiety diet. (Hello abs -- where have you been all these years?0 I actually have to borrow my D14's pants because my own are too big right now. Hooray for silver linings!
The grief diet is quite effective.
But I'd prefer having a died called the "Oh, did I WIN Again?" Diet , that only comes with uber Good news in life, ya know?
The grief diet is very effective: 24lbs for me.
However it's not good to lose so much so quickly.
Hi ahoy. Over -a stone from me and almost 2 stone from W and she was on 10 stone odd at the start. Keep healthy
For the US folks, a stone is 14lbs if you didn't know.
Sorry old dog we use kilograms over here. (Ireland) so I thought I had translated f
Ah yes the heartbreak diet. 2 stone for me. Not a good look but thankfully much healthier now and my running has made me feel strong.
Loving the grey suede boots ahoy!
rd I use kg too even though I'm an Old Dog, I just translate it for one of only three countries in the world who are rsisting metrification (the other two are Liberia and Burma).
Down to just under 70kg from 86kg.
rd I use kg too even though I'm an Old Dog, I just translate it for one of only three countries in the world who are rsisting metrification (the other two are Liberia and Burma).
Down to just under 70kg from 86kg.
Speaking of resistance...I was in the LAST class to avoid using the metric system and it has cost me a lot. I'm always stopped short when I travel and have to translate all of it.
I still don't know why we (the USA) did not switch when I was in middle school. We HEARD of the "metric system" as if it was a cool new idea from Europe, NOT the habit of
every other nation and the future of the world!!
So for the sake of those of us who missed out on the chance to learn it in school, do bear with us, please!
(But can you admit that a "Stone" is not really scientific sounding either? It reminds me of how many "hands high" OR how "TALL" a horse is, but alas, I digress).
Truth be told, if the grief/heartbreak diet includes eating healthy foods --when we do eat---and is combined with exercise,
and eventually allows for decent sleep, we CAN really benefit.
IF we don't get the sleep, or eat decently, then not so much.
When my younger and overweight sister was left by her h, she lost 75lbs in 3 months and NO, that's not healthy to lose
in that time period I'd say it was dangerously unhealthy.
In fact, a lot of her hair began to fall out --which is Not a good sign (oh, and not attractive either, which she pointed out repeatedly)
But it reminds me what I went thru when my h left for the adventures of the tundra (and the "Gold rush up THERE!!"--his words)
I did begin to exercise. It was not to look good OR to feel good (at first) but just to reduce stress.
I had so much energy and so much anger fueled anxiety -- it helped to relieve it AND YES, I did look better and to an extent, that really helped me feel better.
Truth be told, I probably looked better than I had in a few years, losing weight, getting outside and putting a bit of color in the cheeks, exercising & getting toned up, in a way that was healthy and helped my posture too.
Yes, the better we look the better we feel (to an extent). Vanity? I don't know, probably vanity and the desire to look good b/c we are women and for better or for worse, we know our looks matter to our h's. So in addition to our egos, it's also the desire to feel desirable.
make sense? I assume men feel the same way, plus my h works out so he IS strong and feels strong and yes, looks strong. I do not mind.
But I do notice how this "external work" affects us internally. And that - is thought provoking... So I'd get my hair done, get my nails done, bought a few choice outfits and basics for my new thinner ward robe, got 2 new fragrances, which did not remind me of h, but did make me feel attractive and sensual.
Later, when I did date (while sep and that's a whole other story) I wore the new perfumes. And to this day, those make me feel empowered and attractive.
Just rambling with what I Hope is food for thought.
Anyone else want to chime in here? What foods or Scents, exercises, hair styles, GAL activities, clothes to wear, diets to try, OR losing weight or gaining muscle, ETC...
think hard and let us know, ----
what made YOU feel better during the darkest of times??(Oh, and I think we should focus on the healthier choices available)
However, if punching a pillow helped, by all means let us know!
Any ideas?
(Anyone? Bueller???)
I lost about 10 pounds in the first two weeks after BD -- I gagged just looking at food, and had to force-feed myself. I've lost about 5 more since then, even though I'm eating much better since H moved out. I'm eating normally (even a lot at times!) I was a healthy weight before the weight loss, so I really don't want to lose any more. In my case, I think my metabolism is cranked up due to the adrenaline that comes with anxiety. Also, on the weeks when my D14 is with H I find that I don't eat very much (difficult cooking for one). But I'm exercising, eating lots of healthy food, and taking care of myself.
As for things I do to feel good, shopping is new to my list. Not cheap, but it will be less money to divide up if we D! And I'll look good in the meantime.
In fact, I was wearing the new gray suede boots and a fabulous dress with my hair down yesterday when H came by to drop off D14's stuff at my place (I was picking her up from a friend's house later, but she needs her book bag for school). We haven't been alone just the two of us since the lame walk a few weeks ago when he just talking about himself the whole time and complained about D's use of technology. (which is still an issue at both houses)
He came to the door, and I didn't invite him in (probably a missed opportunity, but I was also getting ready to go to a friend's house for dinner and art project and was cooking food for the week and didn't want to get into a drawn-out conversation with him at the time).
He did come in the door, regardless, to drop off the bag, and I handed him his mail for the week. He asked "How are you doing?" And I just treated it like a light conversation starter, responding "Good! I'm just in the middle of cooking some food." (the house smelled amazing)
He said, "So you're going to do art at a friend's house?"
I said, "Yeah, just a bunch of us girls getting together. Should be fun."
Maybe he was trying to get information out of me, but if he had specific questions he wanted to ask (like "how's your father?" or "how are you feeling about our relationship?") then he should have asked. In the meantime, I'm showing him a happy, positive person that he'd be a fool to leave.
I guess I could have tried to initiate a conversation with him on a deeper level, but I'm trying to follow sandi's rules -- don't initiate R talk. I have to trust that if he wants to stay and have a deeper chat, he will initiate that in his own time.
Next week is his mystery trip (possibly to OW) and also his deadline to renew health insurance. I'm waiting to see if he brings that up. Either way, I plan on getting my own so I don't feel vulnerable and dependent on him.
Clarification: my own insurance, not OM!
Lisa -- your thread is locked. If you get this, in response to your query about how to handle being in the "friend" zone -- all I can say is I'm probably there as well. BUT we don't really know if it's really the friend zone or not -- and even though they may feel that they want you in the friend zone today, they might feel differently tomorrow. And we might too. So keep an open mind.
For me, I'm NC with H, although I happily respond to his messages (most of which are focused on D14), and accept his invitations to dinner and such, rare that they are. But I don't initiate or pursue -- at all. And I am out GALing and he knows it. I ALWAYS have somewhere to be or something to do right after I see him, so I'm the first to leave -- and leave for something fun. He's too chicken to ask if I'm seeing someone else. But if he did ask, I'm not sure how I'd respond. I'm not dating anyone, and I told him when we were discussing the parameters of the separation that I'd be "social" but not "physical" in terms of dating.
Maybe I would just say that I'm not ready to discuss my personal life until he feels ready to discuss his as well, and that if we don't plan on working on the relationship then I don't see the point of discussing it at all, since I really don't need to know and vice versa.
But part of me wants to say, "Yes, I'm dating a FANTASTIC PERSON -- ME!"
Probably better to keep him guessing.
I am not sure how I'll feel about this next week or month, but If I were in your shoes,
and If my h asked me if I was dating...IN THIS MOMENT,
I MIGHT say one of the following...
1) "no one
seriously at the moment;"
2) "I'm not in a
committed R YET"...
3) "Yes"....(say not a single additional word, but move on to another topic)
4) "not
one particular person"
5) "nothing serious, at this point"...
6) "well of course" (again, not a word should follow)
7) "I'd rather not say right now"/"Not ready to discuss that"/
8) "Do we have to have another R talk now?"
9) "I'm
trying Not to date for now..."
10) "Yes I'm dating but it's hard to narrow down to one
(you know that feeling")
FYI I am not suggesting you use any of these^^...I'm just saying,
I might...
Ahoy, 25, your interactions are really helpful for me.
and very nicely timed concept of dating yourself. I know I've heard that idea more than once, but I think today I'm finally starting to get it.
Had a rough night with D14. She has been acting like a typical teenager (lying about tech use and homework), but I just am not up to the task of parenting a teen some days. I get plenty of lying and disrespect from her father, thank you very much. To feel that I'm losing her (meaning the distancing thing that all teens go through) is just too much for me right now. So we had a big blow up. And then thank goodness I talked to my sister, who spoke with both of us by phone and got us to realize we were both struggling with the same thing and that we should be there for each other. D wrote me a heartbreaking note about how she loved me, and would pick me if she had to (even though I'm not asking her to pick sides and would never do so), and that she is injured by her dad's actions.
She hasn't opened up about her feelings much in the past few weeks, so I'm glad that she's letting me know how she is feeling, even though it is difficult to hear how much she is hurting. She says her dad never asks her how she's doing. She also asked if I would go with her to confront him to see why he is doing what he's doing, why he did it so quickly, and who is this woman whose picture is on his computer screen? I told her I couldn't do that because it would push H further away. But if she wants to ask him questions, that's up to her. I just can't get involved. She said she understood, though she sounded disappointed.
As for the whole photo of possible other woman -- it's not like I didn't have suspicions, but it's still disappointing. And so freaking typical. Good riddance to him!
I give up.
Maybell, I'm glad my interactions have been of help in some way to someone. I'm not doing so well right now. Feel like I blew it with my daughter yesterday a bit, although we are in a more honest place with each other now.
I am struggling the way you were a few days ago.
On the one hand, I DO NOT want to ever be with H again. EVER. I do not like the person he has become and cannot respect the choices he's making. He does deserve happiness, and he should absolutely be free to make choices that serve his happiness in his life, but the way he has gone about this is causing so much harm to me, and more importantly to our daughter, that I will never be able to see him in the same way again. And certainly never trust him. So what's the point? Why am I fighting to save a M I don't even want? Out of fear? Out of a need to "win"? Out of a desire to keep our family intact at the expense of my own need for a real loving, trustworthy partner? I need to be done with him. Really, really done.
I feel for you Ahoy. My WAW just left here to take the girls to school and I'm sitting here trying to figure out who this woman that was just in my house was. I forget who called it the alien abduction, but it sure is.
I hate that you're in this place. That husband put you here. Keeping the family intact is a noble and the most worthy cause of all. Too bad he doesn't feel the same way. I have no words of wisdom. Just empathy for your current state. Just remember, YOU'RE the one who's following the correct path. You get to keep your chin up. No matter what you choose at the point, you wont be the one with blood on your hands.
Praying for you.
Good Morning Ahoy,
Whenever I see Ahoy, I think of Mr Burns on the Simpsons, who occasionally greets people with "Ahoy-Hoy".
First of all, I think you handled a 14 year old about as well as you can. I've wished often in the last couple of months that H would have at least waited to meltdown until my girls were older, and you just made me realize there is no "better" time for this. There's also no perfect script for this and no way for you to take away her pain. She's luck to have you,
Just a blunt question - how many of your feelings today do you think are related to your daughter's revelation about the woman on your H's computer? Suspecting is one thing, actual evidence is something completely different. And it takes a while to absorb.
You're the only one who knows if your marriage is worth standing for. You had mentioned waiting until the end of the year. Coincidentally, I have a similar timeline. I know some posters have cautioned against timelines, but I think giving yourself this minimum amont of time to really decide what you want to do is important. As you have noted, our feelings change frequently, day by day.
I hear you. Frankly, I am repulsed by my own husband right now. I can't believe the things he has done and the person who he has become. And even if he started making better decisions, I'm well aware he will never be the sweet man that I married again. You can't leave your family and have affairs without it changing you permanently. Who knows what he will look like when he comes out of the tunnel.
Everyone is different. For me, I have three reasons for trying to stick it out. I genuinely believe it would be better for my children. My rational mind remembers that we once had a joyous and loving marriage (even though I am long way from feeling that way about him now). And I truly believe he's sick, and that part was covered in the vows.
Best wishes to you and your daughter, today Ahoy - wish I could give profound advice. Hang in there. You'll have a better day soon.
Thank you, Jefe. I needed to hear that. Struggling a lot today. Praying for you as well.
raliced -- you are right -- some of the pain I'm experiencing is tied up in the idea that there is proof of OW -- and even more because he would leave it on his computer where D could see it. I've felt all along that there was an OW, but you're right that the confirmation is difficult. But it does make more sense than the other nonsense reasons he provided. On the other hand, I'm glad for the clarity because I would hate to think that my marriage could be ruined by me simply "not hosting enough parties" (one of my H's reasons why our marriage was so impossible).
Your reasons for waiting are right -- and they are the same reasons I am waiting at least until January. I know that both H and I are on emotional roller coasters (although he never shows his emotional side to any of our friends or to me or daughter), so I don't trust our decision making at this point.
However, I think, for my own sake, I need to be done with him in my heart. If things change, I'll be open to that, but for now I have to tell him goodbye -- not to his face of course. But in my heart and mind I have to say goodbye and REALLY detach. Basically, in my mind, the H I had is dead. This new person is a stranger with whom I have to figure out how to coparent. I can be friendly, but that is all.
I think maybe I should stop accepting his invitations to do things together for a while. I need some space away from him.
I really appreciate the words of support. I'm in a low spot at the moment.
Everyone is different. For me, I have three reasons for trying to stick it out. I genuinely believe it would be better for my children. My rational mind remembers that we once had a joyous and loving marriage (even though I am long way from feeling that way about him now). And I truly believe he's sick, and that part was covered in the vows.
Raliced,
One of the leaders in our church, when people asked about staying together for the kids, always says: "What better reason is there?"
Ahoy, not trying to lead you. This is just one viewpoint. I can say this, however; Don't make life decisions when you're in a fog. That's exactly what the WAS does and it usually ends up with extra pain down the road.
This too shall pass.
I plan to wait until at least January, and I'll be open to waiting a few more months after that if need be, but I think by January I'll need to know if he intends to work on the relationship or not. Not promising that we'll get back together, just do the work to see what's possible. And be honest.
As for staying together for the kids, I'm not sure how I feel about that. If he returned just for my D's sake then I think that we would probably just divorce as soon as she graduates, and I would have wasted more time with him when I could be out enjoying life on my own or with someone else. If he comes back to work on our relationship, I want it to be because he wants to be with me. I'm sad that daughter might have a broken family, but that is H's choice, and she understands this. I'm not blaming him, but she knows that this separation is his doing.
Hi Ahoy-
Just to be clear - I'm not advocating staying in a sham marriage for the sake of the kids - I'm just saying I'm more motiviated to want to work on the marriage (I'm not going bck to that old marriage) because of the kids.
Ahoy
I would like to give you a virtual cuddle after reading your last few posts .
My daughter is 12 so I'm not really looking forward to her turning a teenager and having to try and deal with it on my own . But will give it my best shot .
South
Hi Ahoy, I wish all of us on this site could meet once or twice a week because the support and caring goes beyond belief.. I find it amazing that the people on here have all these issues with thier R's. I understand that sometimes we (ME) realise to late after BD but I after reading some of your posts and the caring that clear in the your H must be in a fog !!! Whatever you decide, please take your time. My own twopence worth is that alot of these WAS seem to be in a MLC and once its reached it seems hard to get them back. I am far from an expert but form my own sitch , they seem to focus on ANY future without you. Stay strong and take care. RD500
Thank you all . . . it's so good to have the support. I will take my time. I know I am just hurting a lot right now and that makes me want to jump off the emotional roller coaster (by being done with him) but I will be patient, for my daughter's sake, for H's sake, for my sake. But I am losing hope. I feel like he is having a great time, enjoying his new life, and is just waiting until January so we can file the papers and be done so he can carry on his merry way without the guilt.
Honestly, it makes me want to go out and have a meaningless relationship with someone RIGHT NOW. But I'm not in my 20s anymore, and I'm not an idiot, and I know that wouldn't solve anything. And I know it would really be just to get revenge on crazy H, to have a secret of my own. It would destroy everything. But right now everything already feels so destroyed. I know there are rare examples of folks recovering from this, but they are so rare. I am just having a hard time thinking about feeling this way in limbo for the next three months (or longer). And for what?
Ahoy, there are two things that keep me going, even when I feel like I'm done. One is my kids. Two is the thought that even though I don't understand it, in all likelihood my H didn't just up and walk away, he was unhappy for a long time. Maybe he didn't deal with that unhappiness in a productive way, but it was there. If that's true, then how is it I'm ready to walk away so soon. That keeps me standing for now.
And boy do I know about teen and tween girls. I'm blessed with one of each at home at the moment.
Hi Ahoy, my feelings exactly. I think thats what DR and DB boil down to, don't stay in limbo, move on with you. Your H will do whatever he will do. I have huge respect for you and understand your dilema. In my humble opinion, carry on with your GAL and all that entails, if the worst comes to the worst then know if and when you are ready for your next R, you will be a real catch and your H was a fool to lose you. Take care RD500
Thanks, rppfl. I know we're all in the same stinking boat right now. It helps to know I'm not alone, even though I'm sorry we're all having to go through this.
I need to do something to turn the corner today...
I feel like he is having a great time, enjoying his new life,
I doubt it. I'm sure he will have his happy moments - but no way is it always a great time. I notice that quite a few of the WAH threads that are going on currently describe a husband who is still gone - but who are conflicted and confess to not being particularly happy.
I know there are rare examples of folks recovering from this, but they are so rare. I am just having a hard time thinking about feeling this way in limbo for the next three months (or longer). And for what?
Is it really that rare? I deal in data and analysis all day long - and I confess it drives me
crazy that there are no reliable statistics about any of this (I can't help it - its how I'm made). I saw one the other day that said 70% of all separated couple get divorced, which I found to be depressing. Then I got to thinking- what does that really mean? Does that include all the situations where a spouse moved out, and the other one immediately filed for divorce in anger? My guess is that there is some difference between WAWs and WAHs, but that doesn't get split out, how many of those people do nothing constructive to help the situation? I guess my long winded point is - there's no apples to apples comparison to what we as individuals are going through - so who know how rare it really is?
True! Thank you for those insights, raliced. I do need to think about the situation more objectively (and less emotionally). I saw that same percentage about separated couples getting divorced, and also found it depressing. I am doing EVERYTHING I possibly can to help get us in the 30%. I'm am DBing my butt off. All of my interactions with H since I started DBing (two weeks after BD) have been almost exactly what is recommended. Right now I am failing in my detachment, obviously, since I'm so emotional right now. But I'm not sharing these emotions with H, and am continuing with him "as if."
But I know it might all be for naught. And it drives me crazy that I can't just tell him exactly how I'm feeling, and how daughter is feeling. Because I know if would drive him further away. There is no honesty in the relationship. He won't be honest with me, and I can't be honest with him right now (because he doesn't want to hear it, and I'm not supposed to talk about R). So I just smile and act like life is grand when I feel like I'm dying inside, and I just don't know how long I can keep that up, truly. But I'm trying.
Also, thanks rd for the kind words. I know this journey is supposed to be about me -- even more than about restoring the M. Must. Remember. That.
Honestly, it makes me want to go out and have a meaningless relationship with someone RIGHT NOW. But I'm not in my 20s anymore, and I'm not an idiot, and I know that wouldn't solve anything. And I know it would really be just to get revenge on crazy H, to have a secret of my own. It would destroy everything. But right now everything already feels so destroyed.
Boy, I can relate with this feeling.
Ahoy: Are you getting any DB coaching? I know the vets are a big help, but you seem to be at a critical juncture.
Thanks for checking in on me yesterday. I hope that you find a healthy measure of detachment today.
Sounds like you should go re-read Sandi2's 37 rules. I try to hit them every other day.
Hi Ahoy, re the dealing with the feelings today, take heart from your D take heart from being you, Your feelings are the feelings you have now and you will be happy again. Try to remember good times you have had in your past, times you laughed and times that made you feel good. If you try to catch the sad thoughts before they get you down and replace them with the happy ones. The pain we are all feeling will pass, we are decent people or we wouldnt be posting here. I have no wise words but one day you will be happy and properly happy. Take care RD500
Maybell, I'm glad my interactions have been of help in some way to someone. I'm not doing so well right now. Feel like I blew it with my daughter yesterday a bit, although we are in a more honest place with each other now.
I'm glad you're in a more honest place and believe me, that's important. But I ache for you and your d. Our d's are still working on their R's with their dad. They were hurt when he left and he's digging himself out of a hole he made. (So you know, I'm glad he's doing the work and at times I feel sorry for him. Other times I want o scream at him that I had warned him of this!
But why say "I told you so" if one can avoid it?
I am struggling the way you were a few days ago.
On the one hand, I DO NOT want to ever be with H again. EVER. I do not like the person he has become and cannot respect the choices he's making. He does deserve happiness, and he should absolutely be free to make choices that serve his happiness in his life, but the way he has gone about this is causing so much harm to me, and more importantly to our daughter, that I will never be able to see him in the same way again. And certainly never trust him. So what's the point? Why am I fighting to save a M I don't even want? Out of fear? Out of a need to "win"? Out of a desire to keep our family intact at the expense of my own need for a real loving, trustworthy partner? I need to be done with him. Really, really done.
Great questions. But as you suspect, YOU are the only one who can answer those questions and you can only answer them for you.
Financial considerations are not meaningless, esp when there are children. If you could somehow KNOW that you'd be financially secure after divorcing, would that make a difference? A big difference?
Also, I am a big fan of redemption = I believe in it and think the wayward spouse has to know the "Road home is paved and smooth" if he/she makes the effort.
So I'd say to an LBSer, "don't make it harder to return than it already would be."
OTOH If you know, truly, that you cannot ever forgive him, (for whatever reason), then cutting bait now might make sense...
Do you KNOW that you'll never trust him again? (Even if you forgive him)? B/C if you really truly KNOW That is reality, then actually you have some clarity...
Keep posting, b/c as important as this time is in your life, it might be the only thing you really do FOR you and your peace of mind.
And remember, you will be happy again. Model that inner knowledge and inner
peace for your d. When she faces a setback or betrayal in life (and she will) you will have shown her real life examples of how to get thru it to the other side.
PS
There is a point in showing your d that marriage CAN mean sucking it up for a time, while you figure things out. It's not the same as dating a guy who mistreats you, and with whom you'd quickly terminate a relationship.
Your daughter can see what a serious VOW the marital words are... and SHE will know you did your best to make this work even when it hurt like he11 and you wanted out. There is a lot of intrinsic value in that.
So you hurt like he11 - and yet you still hung in there - until you knew if there was a future with him, that would yield you AND HIM happiness.
That ^^^ has value.
25 .... wise words .. and ones I too needed to hear/read.
Ahoy ... I hope you hang in there, we are all in the corner of a M that ends up working out ... and by still rooting for yours in a way makes me still root for my own. But I can relate with so much of what you said .. was happy to see 25's response ... making me rethink my current stance at the moment ... I guess when in doubt go dark and let things start to sort themselves out.
Every single person I follow on these boards has had a dark night of the soul where they really want to just walk away. Every single one. Somehow, many of us have found ourselves hanging in there.
That reminds me of a quote from one of Labug's old threads that I wanted to hang on to. I'll go looking for it, it's REALLY good for this place you're in. If you wanted to look for it before I get back to you, I quoted it in one of my threads, maybe around 7th or 8th???
Hugs to you, Ahoy, you've been amazingly helpful and supportive. You'll be awesome no matter what happens.
Amen...
and one thing to echo what Maybell has just said.
On my "dark night(s)", eventually I came to feel at peace with the future I saw, without my h.
I even felt sorry for him, b/c I KNEW I'd be okay but could not honestly see how he could be, vis a vis our children. That's not competitive of me, though it may sound that way. I just felt bad for him, but mostly good for me/my future. (Based on what you've written here, I believe You will get there too.)
I also knew in my heart that no other woman could or would have gotten thru all the advanced & professional (DEMANDING) schooling, AND life under the poverty level for our youth and for so many years, --
--with so much laughter and joy and my love for him. I knew I loved him very well for most of our marriage.
No other woman would appreciate the comparatively glorious wealth we now enjoy,
b/c no other woman would have eaten what we ate when we were first married. We ate what H got hunting, (And goat meat he recovered from a "control group" that was euthanized under FDA/PETA rules) though they were still healthy and safe to eat.
Suffice to say we had roughed it, a lot. Yet I never ever complained, as I wasn't even aware of how poor we were. I was madly in love.
No lawyer/doctor/gorgeous woman that h could hope to meet, would ever know what HE and I had learned...
So I was at peace. I began to hold my head up a little higher. I believed there was going to be someone very good, whom I'd share my life with again, married or not. I would not be "lonely" again, even if I were alone.
And there are worse things than being alone...
---like wishing you were.
((( )))
Here it is... From my 4th thread. Yikes.
If your only reason for being here is to "Save My Marriage" you will be stuck in the same place a year, 2 years, forever. Lay down the save my marriage banner and pick up the one that says "Save Me"
If you're here to improve yourself, get rid of some old baggage and are open to the process you just might create a new life for yourself. It may or may not include your spouse but that might no matter.
Some days, it's hard to come to the forums. It's hard to read through all the pain that we're all experiencing sometimes. Today was one of those days, but as I sit here with tears in my eyes after having read some of the responses to Ahoy, I'm glad I did.
That's a good sentiment maybell. Its the sort of thing cadet should add to the welcome message
True! Thank you for those insights, raliced. I do need to think about the situation more objectively (and less emotionally). I saw that same percentage about separated couples getting divorced, and also found it depressing. I am doing EVERYTHING I possibly can to help get us in the 30%. I'm am DBing my butt off. All of my interactions with H since I started DBing (two weeks after BD) have been almost exactly what is recommended. Right now I am failing in my detachment, obviously, since I'm so emotional right now. But I'm not sharing these emotions with H, and am continuing with him "as if."
But I know it might all be for naught. And it drives me crazy that I can't just tell him exactly how I'm feeling, and how daughter is feeling. Because I know if would drive him further away. There is no honesty in the relationship. He won't be honest with me, and I can't be honest with him right now (because he doesn't want to hear it, and I'm not supposed to talk about R). So I just smile and act like life is grand when I feel like I'm dying inside, and I just don't know how long I can keep that up, truly. But I'm trying.
Ahoy: for sure many here, myself included, can so fully relate with exactly this. Keep going and keep posting, you have great support here.
Also, thanks rd for the kind words. I know this journey is supposed to be about me -- even more than about restoring the M. Must. Remember. That.
^^^^ this. And how are you doing at the moment?
Hi Ahoy sorry your feeling so down get a hug from your D. And know that we all feel your pain. So sorry your down Tomorrow's another day
Had lunch with a friend who works with my H. She said he mentioned that he enjoys spending time with me as a family. I don't know what else he said because I didn't want to put friend in an awkward position and ask. I figured she would volunteer information that was relevant. She is friends with both of us, but doesn't agree with the way he is going about things.
I'm having a lot of anxiety about the health insurance sign up, even though I know that it will be fine -- it's just another hurdle and will help me get my independence.
Having trouble not fixating -- waking up and thinking about him and the whole situation. I know there's no point, but my brain really wants to "fix" this problem. I'm visualizing a stop sign, following all the advice I've been given. I can't will myself to detach though. I think I can try, but realistically I think detachment comes with time as much as with practice.
I need talking off a ledge here. I am having a hard time with limbo this week.
Here is what I would love to write to my H:
Although I enjoy spending time with you and as a family, that is not something I'm interested in doing right now if there is no possibility of us working on our relationship. I will always be friendly toward you -- that is in our best interest, as well as in our daughter's best interest. However, if you are truly done, then I need some time and space to myself. If you don't know yet, that is fine -- but if you do know and are just afraid to tell me, I would rather that you just told me.
But I know this would not be wise, right? Because I'm supposed to enjoy the gift of time so that his feelings can evolve, right? Argh. I hate limbo!
I need talking off a ledge here. I am having a hard time with limbo this week.
Here is what I would love to write to my H:
Although I enjoy spending time with you and as a family, that is not something I'm interested in doing right now if there is no possibility of us working on our relationship. I will always be friendly toward you -- that is in our best interest, as well as in our daughter's best interest. However, if you are truly done, then I need some time and space to myself. If you don't know yet, that is fine -- but if you do know and are just afraid to tell me, I would rather that you just told me.
But I know this would not be wise, right? Because I'm supposed to enjoy the gift of time so that his feelings can evolve, right? Argh. I hate limbo!
Must be the day for thinking too much about limbo land .
I'm in a similar dilemma want to contact W to find out what she wants but know this is not the correct thing to do as it's been only 3 weeks since she left for the second time .
Wish we all had crystal balls and time machines .
And I'm resisting contact or putting any pressure because like you say it's not wise .
Have re read sandis rules and also an article on detachment if only to take my mind from thinking to much about W.
You're right, of course. I know, intellectually, that initiating an R talk is not the right thing to do. Some days limbo is harder than others. . .
Right. No letter for all those reasons and more. When you temperature check you force them to give you the most conservative answer (they feel conflicted but won't tell you that). And pressure or threats are just controlling behavior.
Look at it as the ultimate 180 to focus on his needs. He needs space, time, and patience from you right now. You want clarity, comfort, commitment. If you can't put his needs first now how are you going to stay M even if you got together?
Finally, remember to act with the character you wish he had. You can't expect more from him than you will put in. So stay patient, be the best Ahoy you can be, and showcase the strength you wish he had.
Thank you for those words of wisdom, Zeus. I hadn't thought about it in terms of a 180, but that is a good way of seeing it. I need to be strong. I know I'm showing him my strength, but when I'm on my own I'm a mess emotionally so I feel like a phoney. My needs (for clarity, comfort, commitment) are not being met, as you say. I need to find a way to meet my own needs. Find clarity and comfort in myself somehow. But I ache. It is hard. I am tired. I miss the love and intimacy. I know, intellectually, that there is no point in lamenting and feeling self-pity. I am trying to rise above these feelings. It is a struggle.
I do think you have the right to take the time and space you need to heal, though. If you don't give yourself that gift then any reconciliation that begins will fail under the weight of *your* pain and anger as much as his.
You have a couple of options: just decline the next invitation or two and see what that does for you, or say outright, "I appreciate your invitations but I find myself struggling after spending time with you so I'm going to step back for a time to take care of myself." Or something along those lines.
You know not to do any temperature checking or R talks.
you're just upset and impatient. Your separation is fairly new and getting all that time with him is confusing. It is a lot easier if you can back away for a while and normalize things. Take it from the Meltdown Queen.
You've been really, really strong up to now, and I am very sure that this ledge you're on is just a step up to the next stage in your healing. Do something loving for yourself today. I know for me something that helps is looking at the strangers around me and realizing one of them could be one of the anonymous friends I've made here who have been so generous in cheering me on. Remember that for yourself, because it is true.
"I appreciate your invitations but I find myself struggling after spending time with you so I'm going to step back for a time to take care of myself." Or something along those lines.
I agree with this approach, or perhaps an even stronger statement. Don't go to him with your feelings about the family events until he asks to be a part of another one or invites you to one. Also, I am not sure I would mention that you are struggling...this could come across as needy.
Maybe even a simple "no thank you, but you have fun" or "no thank you, i already have plans" when he invites you. Your actions will speak louder than your words. Or if he asks you, just say "I don't believe that that would be appropriate at this time".
I like the idea of visualizing strangers as folks from this community! Thanks for that, Maybell. You and shodan make good points -- I think next time before I jump at an invitation from him, I should ask myself if I am ready for that. I do need time and space to heal, and accepting these offers, even though they do show him that we have fun together, sometimes does set me back. At other times, though, I feel good about moving on without him afterwards (because he is such a narcissist, and who needs that).
I'm glad I accepted the dinner that he invited me to as a thank-you, even though it was probably a pretext for him to ask me a favor and alleviate his guilt. But there was no reason for me to join him at the outdoor festival as his social buffer. In hindsight, I should have declined.
It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is. But I have to keep a positive attitude I think, even when turning down his invitations. I think I'll just say I have other plans. But it's hard to walk away from a possibly opportunity to connect (not that he's invited me anywhere this week).
Right. No letter for all those reasons and more. When you temperature check you force them to give you the most conservative answer (they feel conflicted but won't tell you that). And pressure or threats are just controlling behavior.
Look at it as the ultimate 180 to focus on his needs. He needs space, time, and patience from you right now. You want clarity, comfort, commitment. If you can't put his needs first now how are you going to stay M even if you got together?
Finally, remember to act with the character you wish he had. You can't expect more from him than you will put in. So stay patient, be the best Ahoy you can be, and showcase the strength you wish he had.
Wow, Zues, good post. I'm saving that one.
Ahoy, I know right where you're at. The limbo is killing me. But Zues is dead on. My impatience and need to control is part of what got me here. Further impatience and controlling is probably not the best way to fix it, I suppose.