Igit newbie needs help part 3 - DivorceBusting.com

Not sure how to attach my previous threads.

Just go to the first page of your last thread and cut n paste the web address from it.

igits previous http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2480573&page=1

Thanks pilot - not real good on computer. need my D12 to help. amazing how technology is so much easier for kids. anyway this am was w 1st actual day of her new teaching job. school is in session. this am one of twins wanted me to send pic to mom with his new tie on. wife texted back rt away and asked for me to call. she was in a good mood and talked to kids for a few minutes. I have 3 weeks to answer summons which wife and I have not talked about for 5 days. its hard to get a read on her . one night she is hugging me and the next day she is ignoring me. I am hoping that a couple weeks of this schedule will give her a better grip on how difficult this schedule is with kids and her teaching. She is so stubborn! I cant figure out how she thinks a D in 1st part of year is going to work out with kids, teaching etc... I don't want her back in the condition she is in. I need to figure out how to draw her back to me. she says she is just not attracted to me anymore. any help from vets on this would be appreciated.

I know exactly what you mean when you say it's hard to get a read on your W. Mine is the same. One day it's hugs and cuddles the next it is distance. We still have 'dates' when she comes in town but she still says she wants to move forward with the divorce. Even on that front she does not want to do anything with the divorce right now

What I think we have is Ws that are conflicted or have some degree of uncertainty. You are also right in that you (we) don't want the W back as they are. They need to under go some discovery of their own in regards to the M and R. Taking them back without changes on their part will not lead to a successful M

I would not put too
Much stock in her saying she is not attracted to you anymore. Those are just words and while they may be true today that can change at any time. Your best course of action is to think back to what attracted your wife to you in the first place. What were you like then? What did you do that you no longer do? I'm willing to bet you have long since ceased to be that person. Try to reinvent yourself in the image of your old self. She fell for you before and she can do it again. But only you can make her want you. You just have to be a person she will want.

Make sense?

Just curious, Pilot, have you made it clear to W that you don't want your W back as they are? Have you said that she needs to make changes and discoveries in order to have a successful marriage? I'm curious how that works. My H wants me to make all these changes (that I'm not against, they would be GOOD and I am working on them) even though he doesn't believe I can make them or that I have made some. I am realizing only NOW that if this M were to continue, he'd need to make some serious changes, too. I'm not sure if I should say that. Now is probably NOT the time though.

Ss the prob I run into is my W does not want the M to work. So telling her she needs to make changes would go nowhere. She is not working on the M I am. So I can only work on myself. If the day comes she wants to work on it THEN I can say she needs to work on herself.

Pilot I am in same boat. wife calls me a couple times today and is sweet as could be on phone. I am hoping I guess that this new career of hers will wake her up to what she is leaving. Her job is just gravy for our family. could do so much more together and family have a little breathing room. my business almost went belly up a few yrs ago. in the custom home bldg. business. its now starting to boom again. can make a lot of doe in a hurry. its just so hard to concentrate. after 19yrs together its such a shock to your system. to hear these negative feelings. I guess feelings can change daily and that is what I am hoping for. I just have a hard time detaching when you have 3 kids to manage. I know she see s the value in having me there. but I don't need a roommate I need a partner for life.

Not the best night. Got home from work at 630 had mens bible study at 7.house and kitchen was a disaster. Wife said she was going to y said kids be ok she be back at 730. I got home at 9 and kitchen still a disaster, I cleaned dishes , swept floor, wife came down I said hello and she mumbled something. I was irritated and said you can at least say hi. I should have went to bed. Started argument for 5-10 min. She was mad as all get go. I let her pull me into it. We calmed down and talked for 20 minutes she asked why I won't give up. I told her I don't want this for us or our kids. It's hard enough doing this together how are we going to do this Divorced. Anyway I apologize d to her about something I did along time ago. I wasn't very sympathetic about a miscarriage 10 yrs ago and told her I was sorry. She then asked me to admit that I never loved her. I was floored. My answer was I have always loved you I am sorrIy you feel that way. I told her I didn't want to give up on our family but would go along with D and try and be civil. She talked about getting an apartment closer to school after D and me stay with kids until school was out. She told me to be positive about future, my answer was look I will be fine I just want my kids to be happy. There hapiness is more important than my own. She told me she felt the same way. So I feel I backslided tonight but am only human. I feel her anger and not sure if it's all about me.

Chin up igit. Yea, you did get sucked into an argument, but it happens. We all have snarky statements just waiting on our tongues to lash out. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue a little harder!!

I have learned that R talks so close to conflict are never going to go well for you. I know it 'feels' like you are connecting when you calm down and talk and you probably want to take advantage of the time, but best course is to STFU.

On the bright side, you are still in the game. This one shot did not sink you. Maybe a little backslide, but heck, it beats a stalemate!

Better day and night. W and I took kids to pf.chang.for dinner. Had a good time w actually smiled and laughed w me. She went to bed when we got home, pretty tired. We talked about her school for a few minutes. I saw my pastor last night at bible study and told him wife was pursuing a D. He and his wife have known my w for 8yrs. They have tried to reach out to her but she has ignored there efforts. The Pastor called me today and read me a letter they were writing to her. Very touching letter, they just want her to know they miss her and love her , me, and the kids. It's well written and I told them I appreciated there concern and love and I had no issues with them sending.

Started out as good night. Went down to get water and w called me into her room asked me if I talked to my attorney . I said no I hadn't She asked if I was going to talk to her about it . I said I will in time. She then went onto complain about me having all this time with kids and she wishes she wouldn't have taken this job. She said she was exhausted. I said it won't be any different after a D. At least she had help. She was super angry and I kept cool and said I wasn't going to talk to her when she was angry and left her room. She followed me and said I was doing fun things with kids and her brother on purpose. She said she wanted to do this D at beginning of summer. She said we won't be freinds yata.yata yata.yata she was tired of staying in guest room . I told her she could have our room if she wanted. She said she couldn't stand being around me. I didn't say anything just said sorry you feel that way. I did tell her I wasnt convinced her A was over and I wasn't going to let her put our kids through that. She rolled her eyes and said she had to get out of house tonight. She wanted to be with kids and they were upstairs w me. I told her there in bed sleeping. Anyway I think reality is hitting her rt.between eyes. She said she had been patient and let me have this time with kids. I am thinking you have to be kidding me. I think the pressure is getting to her. She wants to be this super independent working D mom with kids. This stinks! She may go off the deal end here I just think she is in a real bad place tonight. I am glad I didn't get suckered into s fight.

Just venting. I certainly don't want a R with her state of mind. She talked about getting apt.closer to work. Staying there a few nights a week because of the drive. I told her it was a good idea alot shorter drive to work. She asked me where I would stay when she came home and I told her I was staying here. I think she is really getting frustrated. Not sure what I can do. I am thinking you had the A. Not me, if you can't stand being here then you can leave. . I am not stopping her. I am not leaving my kids period. She can say whatever she wants, but reality is reality. Both my Attny.and ic said don't leave the home. It is important for kids that I not leave. I won't abandon kids. I am living with a chasos Kid. She may be going off deep end.

Sounds like you are doing well Igit! Stand your ground and continue to put the effort in her court. Make her work for the separation and divorce. You are right; you didn't have the affair and if she wants to pursue the course of action she is pursuing then let her do all the work. I wish my WAW would be a little more decisive and do half the things she threatens to do. Living with a spouse determined to be miserable has got to be the worst sentence there is...

Sorry to hear about your troubles igit and Casey. My W is also the wishy washy one when it comes to saying she will do something and then not follow through when it comes to D stuff. igit you are absolutely doing the right thing by staying in your house. And yes it is super frustrating that they just dont 'get it' but rest assured she will one day.

Keep your chin up. We on the forum 'get it'!!

Pilot thanks for encouragement. She is boo hooing.last night about how tired she is and stressed from teaching job. I'm thinking wtf.classes started wed. Wait till the kids act up or issues with other teachers or whatever. This should be about as easy as it will ever be. You have a h who is helping with kids. See how tired you will be when you do it alone. I told her today to give me her schedule for weekend and I will work with her on it. We have a real estate deal we our working on together, we talked about that. All is good until it's talk about R or D. I am getting to a place that I know I will be ok either way. It's her I am worried about. She hides her depression very well. She is acting all confident and happy rt now. When she gets what she wants a D. Then big dose of reality coming.

Casey thanks for input and encouragement. This board has some good people on it. They should have a DB getaway weekend. No spouses aloud. It sounds like your wife is from chaos kid family too. Hang in there.

Originally Posted By: igit

Pilot thanks for encouragement. She is boo hooing.last night about how tired she is and stressed from teaching job. I'm thinking wtf.classes started wed. Wait till the kids act up or issues with other teachers or whatever. This should be about as easy as it will ever be. You have a h who is helping with kids. See how tired you will be when you do it alone. I told her today to give me her schedule for weekend and I will work with her on it. We have a real estate deal we our working on together, we talked about that. All is good until it's talk about R or D. I am getting to a place that I know I will be ok either way. It's her I am worried about. She hides her depression very well. She is acting all confident and happy rt now. When she gets what she wants a D. Then big dose of reality coming.

igit, be careful with this line of thinking. I know you are probably right, that your W does not understand how difficult being on her own will be. I feel the same about my W too, as she has never been on her own and always had someone to take care of her. However, the trap you will fall into and seems you may be already is assuming she WILL fail and you will be there to tell her see I told you so as she comes crawling back. She may fail, and she may just make it. I get your line of thinking 'if you think it is hard now, just wait till..." but in the future try not to. For one, it is a sign that you have not detached and are worrying too much about what she is doing. That will cause you nothing but frustration and hurt.

I just moved my W into her new apt today. If I had to bet, I would say she is going to have a lot of troubles. But that is her problem, not mine to solve. Any involvement I have whether it is helping or hurting will do nothing but cause resentment towards me when things go bad. The best I can do is get out of her way and have no involvement so nothing can be my fault.

Best of luck to you buddy. Im still rooting for you.

I am with you pilot. I didn't say that to her, but your rt. It is in the back of my mind. She mentioned her getting apt.closer to work. I thought that was a good idea. Kids stay with me till end of school yr. I don't know if she realizes the confusion for kids. her seeing kids a few days a week.not so sure how its all going to shake out with kids. I don't think it's in her best interest with kids to do that. It will be a major change for everyone, kids stay with me till end of school yr in nice home on 5 acres.move into apt.with mom . It's nuts

Yes, it is unbelievable how self-centered a WAW can be. And it is no use trying to shame them into seeing the damage their decisions are costing their children and everyone else around them. I used to try but I gave up. You can lead a woman to knowledge but you cannot make her think...

I guess I need to detach more; I thought the same way about my wayward spouse. That she would fall flat on her face once she moved out and had to live in the big bad world on her own. I am not quite to the point of not caring what will happen; after all, she is still the woman I fell in love with and married even if the good in her is hidden by the monster that has taken over her.

Good luck with your situation; maybe reality will intrude on her fantasy once everything is finalized.

Casey from n.Dakota love s.dakOta go out every fall bird hunting with wifes brother. Crazy chaos kids. Wife is jelous of my friendship with her brother. She thinks he hates her. That couldn't have anything to do with her brother living with dad and her living with mom. Dad no love for her. You think she would see a shrink. No she doesn't need one. Your right Casey you shouldn't waste your breath with trying to reason with waw. They are in own little world looking for hapiness. They can't figure it out they need to love themselves first.

Days are up and down. This am w calls me into room asked me why I didn't go out last night,I did she was sleeping when I left. We talked for a few about schedule for the day. She needed to work on school stuff so I told her I would take kids to church then pool. She said she needed to go to church w me to work in nursery we could leave kids at home. Got home from pool took kids and her to dinner. We got home w was nice gave me a hug I kissed her on cheek and said goodnight. I don't know what to think, I am going to really try and be her friend,she is so bull headed and stubborn,just can't get suckered into fighting with her.

I am in same situation; I know W is up to no good but it is so hard being alone that when she tosses scraps of affection my way I have a very hard time refusing and most of the time I do not succeed. When they know they have you on a leash there is no incentive for them to change.

Quote:

When they know they have you on a leash there is no incentive for them to change.

BINGO!

I got a text from a freind who has a freind whose husband left her. She just finished D a few months ago. A beautiful lady. Model for a marriage magazine. GO figure. She knows of me and is keeping up with freind about my sitch. I guess the point is it kind of helps with detaching.although I know I can't act on it now, it's nice to know there is interest out there. It's like my m stinks and I am only one working on changing it.
I feel like w knows I am on a leash. All she has to do is give a little tug and puppy will come running back. But when the puppy breaks that leash she is going to come running after it. My W the other night said something to me. She said why don't you admit you never loved me. I was dumbfounded. Here I have stayed and fought for m going on 8 months. Pure hell. Sure did some dumb things, said some dumb things. I asked her if I never loved her what would I still be here for. Then she mentioned something about my being arugoaunt with my religion. I said if you don't think this sitch has humbled me andthat God hasn't humbled me I don't know what to tell you. It seems like she is almost angry because she can't believe what I have gone through and still hanging tough. Well I am actually feeling good about myself. Whatever path m R takes with w. I have learned so much about myself, my short falls. Strengths etc. I am glad to have been apart of DBing.

Glad to see you are feeling good. Nice knowing there are other beautiful women out there thinking of you and looking at you as a prize. Sounds like your W is conflicted especially since she wants you to stay in the house for another year. Its like she wants you but doesnt want you at the same time. All in all, not a terrible position to be in. Many here have it much worse!

Pilot, these waw are in a fog. Last weak my w and I were talking about when boys played soccer. It was in fall but she swears it was in spring. At a game she claims she ran up to me and I walked away. I was mad at her for not dressing boys for weather.one of boys has asthma and was struggling. Looking back I didn't act like a loving spouse, she claims that was day that pushe'd her over the edge. Anyway my point is I know when it was. She has told me it was in the fall until recently. Anyway tonight at dinner I asked if we were going to sign up for soccer. She says that was in spring. My 12d said no mom it was fall so and so from boys class were on team. I guess I am corn fused on that one. Anyway it is nice to have a hottie interested in my sitch and checking on me. It's not what I want or need rt now. Just a gd thing for ego. When you have been w someone for 19yrs it's hard to think about a new woman.

Yea, I cannot imagine 19 years. I have been married a little over 6 and with her for coming on 8 years. 19 is a long time. And to top it off, you now have young kids too. I am really pulling for ya. And your family...

Pilot, I appreciate it. My IC who is a 30 yr psychologist who has seen it all in her career told me today she is even confused on the D filing, living till next June etc. Last week I needed to get out of home for night so I took off at midnight. W called me and was pleading with me to come home that night. She was telling me she would stay in room and sleep with me. I didn't come home didn't tell her where I was , she called me at 3am.she called me at 6am.I didn't take bait. I tell this to my shrink and she tells me she still doesn't know what she wants. IC knows wife from a few visits and has told me that there has been a 3rd party in our relationship and it's her dad. I know it and wife knows it but some people just can't deal with those demons and ignore the effect is has on there life. When these issues arise pre-menopause they will do whatever they can do to find happiness. What they end up finding out is there unhappiness and issues will keep following them until they deal with them. I have tried to get w to deal with this since she went off of deep end but to no avail. Very frustrating

You know you may be on to something with the dad thing. Maybe the MC knew something quickly after talking to her. Does not really make much of a difference right now. Lord knows I have explored every avenue of 'understanding' my situation within myself. One more wont matter now, but if there is a R in the future, then maybe something to explore and dive into.

Thanks for all your insight and your time igit. I enjoy talking with you because I really do think we have some strong similarities. Then again, I hate that you have to deal with what I am. Hah!

my w called me today to touch base on some work stuff. I asked her if she had plans for weekend. She said nothing planned. I asked if she was ok with me going out of town tomorrow night back on Saturday eve. she was ok with it. didn't tell her where or with who. then I asked her how she would feel about taking kids for an overnight on sat or sunday some where. I liked the approach on how she would feel about it. 180 for sure on my part. I know the kids are hurting rt now from her lack of connection, they are starving for attention. anyway she is going to get back w me on that one. trying to act as if all is good in my world. <its a tough acting job> anyway going to contact my L tomorrow and see what and how to respond to Summons. I know w will ask me sometime soon to talk about it. I will be polite but decline to get into anything at this point. a 60-90 day period before a meeting of some sort with a mediator. I have some time so need to use it wisely.

Good job with the GAL this weekend. Did I read it right and you asked her if she wanted to do something with all of you when you got back?

I did do that. Kids have long weekend. I asked her how she would feel about that. We have been doing dinners with kids etc. No pressure just get kids and us away. She called back and said 12d has pool party sleep over so that kills that no biggie in my book. Mr Bond might have another view. What do u think pilot.

If it kills it it kills it. No point in trying too hard to make something happen. Save it for another time.

My thoughts exactly. Putting kids 1st. Asked how her feelings were on it. All good, heading to parent teacher stuff tonight with her. One of twins is having issues, 2 behavior time outs. Wife got real angry said she was going to straighten teacher out. I let her vent. Suggested we let teacher tell us what's going on before we jump to conclusion s.

If your 6 year olds are anything like my 5 then they are noticing family problems

Pilot, No question about it. Twin boys are starving for her attention. One of boys just ignores her when she tries to hug him. If she gets her D and gets apt.closer to work her idea was me to stay in home till schools out. I think she will be in for a serious difficult time thinking kids will be ok moving in with her in june. Just my thoughts. I need to keep working on me. Hoping she will do the same. Time will tell. Plento of patience needed. I am like you have plenty of one.praying for the other.

Interesting night. My w and I went to kids open house at there christian school. Twins teacher is married to a pastor, her son is a pastor, she was telling us parents how important it was for parents to be good christian role models etc,, etc,,,. I could tell w was uncomfortable hearing all this. Principal introduced herself to all parents then said a prayer for parents. Wife and I ran into our churches kids jr.pastor and his wife, this lady was one of my wife's good freinds at church and has avoided her like the plague. They wanted to invite our D12 to a teen cookout next sunday. Anyway I think my w was waiting for me to rag on her about being a hypicrit etc,, never brought it up kept conversation light and about kids. Taking off tomorrow night till sat. Night. All I can be is best me . I can't do any better then that.

That's good. Your ragging doesn't help your situation. Be the bigger person here. If she feels shame and you're rubbing it in, that can't be helpful.

Stay the path.

God was working for me tonight. I never had to do a thing. Wife was Luke warm. Still giving me cold shoulder. The pastors and teachers were every where she turned. A little religion can't hurt that's for sure.

Sounds like a positive night for you igit. I would caution reading too much into what your W may or may not have been thinking. If for no other reason it might subconsciously alter your actions/mood unjustly.

Keep at what you are doing. You seem to be on the right road doing the best you can given the circumstances.

Pilot, thanks, I know what you mean, I was just being me at school . Even had a funny moment wife cracked up. Had to be there but all in good fun with teacher. Wife asked me to get kids to bed. She was not super friendly but that's the way she has been lately. I am going to get out of town early this afternoon so I don't need to see her. I Just keep thinking to myself , does she have it in her to try and make M work. She would have to really make significant change from where she is now. Not sure she has it in her rt now

Pilot, my plan is to continue to be best dad, <best roommate> best me I can be. I have to show my wife what she will be missing. its so hard to bite my tongue! Yesterday we had this school function at 7. I was at home 530ish W was with kids somewhere! Had no clue where they were! I was getting frustrated! I called D12 at 630 and told her I was on way to school. W then texted me and said to wait for her! I started thinking to myself -< be nice, be cool, don't be angry,> I realize the only way for her to open up to me is show no anger! If she has nothing to be angry with me about it cant hurt! Her brother thinks I should talk to kids teachers and let them no what is going on, he thinks its important for teachers to understand what kids are dealing with! Anyway I have been thinking about that one and not sure what to do!

I told my kids teachers my W and I were separated. I think it is important for them to know. For one, it will explain why sometimes the my kids may not have something they need (being left at other parents house etc). I had to drive up to my kids schools on 3 separate days this week to drop stuff off, and I do not have them this week. Also it helps the teachers keep an eye out for behavior issues, good and bad. For example, my 5 year old is constantly drawing pictures of daddy, mommy, him, and his little brother in a row all holding hands. Breaks my heart to see it, but that is what he keeps drawing. So for simply behavior and logistical reasons, the teachers are better off knowing.

Pilot, well done, good advice. I don't know if WAW knows the impact this has on kids. Lifetime is how long it impacts them. I sent w a text that I am heading out be back tommorow night. She called but no message. I just let it go. Give her some of her own medicine

My WAW says that D doesn't have any impact on children; since she is a child from a failed marriage, I have a hard time believing that she really believes that.

But we have to believe none of what we hear and less than half of what we see, right?

Either she is just saying that to try and hurt me in which case I just need to continue growing tougher skin, or she really believes that in which case I am better off being rid of her.

Originally Posted By: Casey

My WAW says that D doesn't have any impact on children;

My H has said the same thing. Or at least that it's "not that bad on them". My H doesn't come from a broken home so I'd love to know how he knows.

I love the veil that your WAW and my WAH live under with regard to this. Really? No impact. Wha?!

Sometime in future they will see the damage that they have caused. Like a tornado they destroy anything in there path. Only way for LBS to survive is detach and remove oneself from being destroyed by tornado. Some WAW s will realize there unhappiness is not because of spouse but there own low self esteem, unless resolved childhood issues. It really hurts to see someone you love do this to themselves and family. I just hope they find some hapiness from within.

My wife is is taking twin boys to her new church today. What a great role model. Have an A, leave your church of 9 yrs because you don't like people there any more. Then show kids it's ok to change churches especially before a D.

Pilot, I am like you. Not sure how much more of this I can take.

I feel for you igit. None of what your W does makes sense. For that matter no WAW does anything that makes sense, so no point in dwelling on what they do. Keep your focus on yourself and making the improvements on yourself. As tough as it is, you just have to keep letting your W do what she is going to do. And IF and WHEN you reach that breaking point, then it is time to let go and move on. I really hope you do not get to that point. I feel like I am there, and one thing I have realized that reaching that point is NOT going to be an instant relief, or a magical happy place.

Pilot, you are so rt. My w is just making it so difficult to keep PMA anytime I am around her. She is just so cold and miserable. It's definitely not good for the kids to see.

No, it is not good for the kids to see. I am not sure my situation is any better as the kids split time with my W and I. I certainly hate it more than anything that I do not get to see my kids every day. And being dragged from one home to another with no solid foundation as to where 'home' is at this point has to be tough on the kids too.

There is no win situation when it comes to D and kids.

Pilot, you are so rt. These WAW are in so much pain they will do anything to find happiness. The problem is they don't realize that hapiness is an inside job. All a D is going to do when u have kids is trade in one problem for a set of problems alot worse.

Well lets hope your W figures that out soon, for everyone's sake! Sadly it is something THEY have to figure out.

Pilot, let's hope your wife see's that affect on kids as well. I know my wife was pushing for an apt.early on in this fiasco. She was seeing a counselor who thought it was a good idea. I asked wife what the counceling suggested on telling 12d and twin 6 boys. Her answer was her councelor said she didn't have experience in kids. I said well I didn't think it was a good idea. In hindsight maybe I should have let her get the apt. I know it was because of A. Pilot your sitch isn't as bad as it seems from an outsiders view. She will get a taste of independence and how hard the big bad world is. What happens when kids get sick and she has to go to work. Life will get in the way. My w gets a job she leaves at 6am for then serves me. I am thinking wtf are you thinking. She asked me before she takes job if I could commit to getting kids up and to school. Gd old me said yes. I am feeling like a whipped dog.oh well today was ok had dinner then we took kids to pool. Her and I have a real estate deal meeting tomorrow we have been working on. So we see.

Today my w and I had a real estate listing meeting. Went well wife asked me how she did in meeting. She did great and I told her so. We went out to put sign in yard. She grabbed my hand and held it as we went back to car. She asked if I would watch kids as she wanted to go to a women's bible study tonight. I said sure and I would get kids to bed. She called me 3x.this afternoon as I had kids at pool while she did work for her class.forgot phone in car. She called D12 and we caught up for a minute. Not sure what is going on in her mind. I have been a little distant but nice. This am I had to run to office. Was short stopped outside her room. Didn't look in just told her where I was going. She asked if I could come in . I did sat on her bed looked at her eyes and listened to whatever she was saying. Small talk but none the less it was good. Anyway I don't want to mind read. Good day overall. I need to answer D summons in 10 days. I think I will agree to mediation and see what go's.

Impossible to say for sure, but it is likely the reality of the D is starting to hit her as the summons deadline looms. It could be a lot of things, and since we do not do mind reading here, let's not start. As you said, just take it as a good day...which is better than a bad day.

Having a tough day. I have a meeting coming up with my L on thur.to answer summons. W went to a 2hr.women's bible study last night. She called me on way home from it and talked small talk. She was as nice as she has been in a long time the last few days. This morning I took kids to school and came home the house was a mess. I spent a few hours cleaning up. I even made her bed. I am trying something new. Going to do something nice for her everyday for next 30days. Nothing but little things. Not sure what it will do other then at least put some positive thoughts in her mind. I know a D can be very hurtful to both of us. I am not ready to give up. Our 17yr.anniversary is this Saturday. No present but am going to get a card w pictures of our kids. Just a note that says I will always be great full for thus day. Any thoughts on this from vets

Dang...17 year anniversary...days after you answer your summons. I hate it for you buddy. As for the present thing...I would be open to something else...or at least the open to discussing it here prior to doing anything. Let me explain why...

I know gifts, etc can be construed as pursuing. However, in retrospect, I probably should have done 'more' than I did this past April for my W's 30th bday. Basically it was a few days after I discovered her A. So what I did was mirror to the T what she did for my 40th a few months earlier. She as already emotionally gone by the time my bday came around, and honestly I probably did not help things on my bday. Through out our history together, I had always been finding new ways to 'go over the top' with things like birthdays, anniversaries, holidays... When we first met, and she had a job, I called her boss, made sure she was out of her office, then had it decorated with candy, flowers, balloons, and stuffed animals. I would surprise her with trips, gifts from Tiffany's, anything that would show I put in a ton of effort to make happen. So when a milestone bday like her 30th came around, I got her 2 cards, one from each kid, and 2 workout shirts. Because that is what she did for me. 2 cards, and 2 shirts, and dinner at a restaurant I really had no interest in eating at. I did it because I wanted to do nothing more for her than me. In hindsight, I got 2 cards and 2 shirts because she did not have the money to do anything else for me. Would it have killed me to try to make that day a little more special? Probably not. Would not have helped my M, but it certainly was not going to hurt it either.

Back to you. In your case, your D is already in motion, but it is not done. You yourself said the other day she initiated holding your hand after your listing appointment. That is a STRONG positive. A small one, but strong nonetheless. So how do you do something nice for her, that is not pursuing? How about this?

If she does not have dinner plans that you know of, and she plans on staying in, make her a super nice dinner. Put in a ton of effort igit. Go all out. Make it something she really loves, or wants to try. But......make it for 1. Set a place for her at the table. Candles, even music. But set it for one. You are not going to be home. You are going to do your own thing. She will see you put in the effort for HER, and not as a pursuing tactic because you are not there. Also, what better way for her to get a glimpse into her future...sitting at a table set for one eating dinner. Now, if she invites you to eat with her, then ok, accept. But have other plans, even if you go eat fast food and find a quiet place to cry.

Just a thought buddy... No guarantee it is a good thought...just a thought.

Pilot, I appreciate your input in my sitch. It is a lonely thing to go through. Thank goodness for this board and friends like you. there is a movie called fireproof.it has the 30day do something nice for W everyday. after 30days it mentally becomes a permanent fixture in there mind! I don't know if it works for our R but heck desperate times makes for desperate measures. the problem of course is W has checked out for now! Its hard to draw them back! all thru out this mess, whenever W would see me GAL and going out she became more touchy feely giving me hugs , hugs and more hugs. after I was served and took it rather well, she came into my room and wanted to hug me. I needed to get out of my home for the night. she saw me leave and wanted me to come back, she even offered to stay with me in <our> my room. I know I shouldn't mind read! But What are you doing hugging me ! If you have no feelings of love for me then why hug me! Is it guilt? I just don't get it! I am trying to be super dad super roommate with her adjustment to new job> I know she is watching me! I don't know the best approach other than be best me! AND LOST DESIRE TO BE ANGRY! It has gotten easier! I know it doesn't help so a few weeks back when she was spewing I just left room. she asked me to come back she wasn't finished, I told her I would talk to her later I didn't want to fight. When I received summons she told me they were going to call her 1st before they did this! she said she was angry at them and they were not supposed to do it! I didn't ask but thought would it have made a difference. I did look up conty site and saw she filed on 7-25 my 12D birthday! Nice! then she gets a job 2 weeks later and asked me if I would commit to helping w kids! so she filed before job! I dont know how she could expect me to be D and still share a home with her until June! She apparently thinks I will! oh well thanks for input Pilot! Pilot it sounds to me like you treated your W like a princess! great efforts on bdays etc...I am sure that is something she will never forget! hang in there! Her life is going to get more complicated by the day! Be there as a friend! Its something she will need from you before she is ready to recommit.

igit, I do not think (mind reading here) it is guilt which makes your W (or mine for that matter) have moments when they reach out...ie hugs, hand holding, spending QT. They are hurting just as we are. They are also losing a spouse of many years. And even though in our eyes they are in control, maybe in their eyes they are not. Maybe they only believe they can be happy without us because they were so unhappy for so long. And Maybe they really do hurt at the idea of losing us, the M, and the M history as well. It might just be a moment in time where they let their wall down and just want a small piece of the comfort they once had.

Again, all mind reading. Just a possible perspective...

Pilot how do we get 25yearsmlc to comment. She has good insight

Pilot, without kids it would be so much easier to go dark. Just give them there feedom. Just let them go. You always want whAt you can't have. Rt now they know they can have us.

Wife came home w 101 degree temp. I cooked dinner. Got kids homework done and in bed. Just starting to chill. Wife having tuff night with temp. Earlier in day we talked and She is excited about listing real estate property. Big payday big dollar home when it sells. We have always done this real estate stuff well together. I hope this gives us some time together. Most of our projects come from my contacts . Anyway my wifes brother and sil. Have tried reaching out to her at least once a month since this mess started but never a return call from w. Yesterday she texted sil.and brother. Not sure if she is coming out of a stage of mlc or not. From reading on mlc the mlcer.will reach out to some of those relatives she has shut out 1st. The spouse is always last. Maybe I am mind reading. Her bro.called me today and was shocked to hear from her. Just a txt but it has been no contact with him for almost a yr. Same with his wife. These 2 were always with us and our kids always together almost every weekend. So I am glad for w that she is reaching out. Any thoughts on this. Of course the spouse of mlcers.are always last . So be patient grasshopper. That's what I keep telling myself. Maybe mind reading but it's a good thought

this is out of my league, but I wish you the best! any news that is not bad news is good news!

Thx pilot, the childhood issues with her dad are a big part of her unhappiness. She has been writing him letters for all 17yrs of our m. She just hasn't sent them. Always same theme I never wanted anything from you dad but your love and support. Always writing about situation s in her past where he let her down. Anyway bro in law told me he is going to get together with her and talk about her dad and the negative impact he has had on him and his m. Anyway Pilot look what you have to look forward to when your w turns late 40's. In all seriousness there could be an underlying issue in your w childhood. Hang in there if your not living w her she may realize you aren't the cause of her unhappiness. The unhappiness may follow her

Its funny you mention late 40s because last Sept. when this first dropped on me, the 'conclusion' I came to was that my W was having a MLC. I had read some articles about women in their early 30s having them...as if 30 was the new 40. Now having read thousands of pages more, I would guess those articles probably mistook MLC for WAW. At any rate, I am 40, so I either have to marry another early 30something, or go early 50s to miss out in that danger window! hah!

You could be onto something about your W and her dad issues. Even if so, do not bank on that being the sole factor, or even major factor. In all likelihood, it was a combination of a bunch of straws that broke the camels back. I only say that as cautionary, not to undermine your own much more astute observations regarding your W.

I get what you say about underlying issue in my W childhood, and the MC already dove into my W and her dad, and how she is afraid of him (emotionally, not physically). Funny thing is she ALWAYS made it a point to say how her dad and I were nothing alike. Probably because her dad always said he was just like me. Ugg...that just reminded me of a major ego blow. Her family (near and extended) always thought of me as this "super smart millionaire". And while I was never fond of that description, now they must see me as an average broke guy. I like that much less.

As for her realizing I am not the cause of her unhappiness, I am sure that realization will come one day. Not tomorrow, and not next month. And probably not for a long time if our D turns sour. But at some point, as I think many WAS realize, she will understand EVERY relationship takes efforts, and that happiness is an inner project. So as much as I would love to sit back and bank on this strategy, I wouldn't last long if I held my breath on it.

Pilot, yes on not only cause of my w unhappiness. It just was and is still a problem with her that affects her in many ways. During our m the only time we ever had fights was about issues with her dad or her brother. I just wanted everyone to get along. Didn't quite understand how this impacted her. That's part of my frustration is her lack of desire to see a shrink about this. She is afraid to deal with it. It is a major negative in her life and at mlc age it is a big underlying issue with her. That's the frustration

Pilot funny you mention they thought you were funny smart millionaire. Now an avg.broke guy. My wife and I were in very good financial shape 7 -8 yrs ago. My bizz. Was rocking, all investments were good. All good, then 09 real estate crash, mkt.crash, was a disaster for us. Almost went belly up w business. Now her dad looks at me the same way.

Had to work late today. Didn't get home until 830. Wife was very tired when I got home.She called me at 7 and asked when I could get home. She needed my help with kids. I am going to where her out Pilot. She does need to feel what it would be without my help. I helped with kids and w asked me to look at our listing with her. I did and told her it looked good. She then just wanted to talk. We talked about a cousin of mine that recently died of drug O.D. we then talked about her half brother who is a heroin.addct. He never could live up to his dad's expectations growing up. My wife's dad has played hell on all of his kids lives. When talking w wife tonight I just mentioned that her brother has turned to drugs because of his pain from growing up with her dad. Which is something we have talked about in the past. Tonite for the first time in a long long time our conversation had some depth. It felt like a little connection I haven't felt in sometime. I guess I don't want to mind read. I need to answer summons next thursday. Not going to bring it up. Going to continue PMA. Be a friend to her when she needs it. I wonder if she might be thinking about how her dad has messed up with all his kids including her. No mind reading.

yea, no mind reading. It seriously could be anything igit. I KNOW you WANT it to be her having some deep hidden second thoughts going on. But for your own sanity, stop thinking about it. Even if she was having those thoughts, you know as well as anyone the roller coaster. Those thoughts could be history by tomorrow and you back to being the antichrist. I kind of get the sense you are grasping for any sign she might want to reconsider. And I do not mean that negatively, just making a limited observation. I truly feel for you because the wheels are in motion with your D. You are just going to have to keep riding it out. Forget about putting any significance on replying to the summons next Thursday. Next Thursday is just another week day. You will have many deadlines, filings, hearings, meetings and what not after your reply, so why even worry about Thursday. The reality is you are no nearer or farther from a D right now than you were on BD. So try to keep that PMA the best you can, and forget about the summons being important. Hell, when you sign it, put a smiley face next to your name

Pilot, that was good! The smiley face is great! First good laugh I have had in a while. I need to make these late nights working a must. WAW think it's going to be this great new life! I guess I should give her a chance to experience it now so she knows what to look forward to.

Well, please don't ignore the Summons, and the response which is due on Thursday. You do not want to let this proceed to default. Talk to an attorney first.

Wet, thanks for message. I am meeting with L today! not ignoring summons. it stinks but it is what it is. I cant change her feelings, only she can! If she wants to stop this she can! She is not the W I married! Nor the W I want to married to the way she has treated me. the lies and cheating are not the values I look for in a W. If she comes out of her fog and wants to work on M great! If not good luck to her! I

Met with L today. Getting stuff together for response to summons. Sounds like it will be alot of bs. W got home really nice to me. Didn't know I met with L today. I needed to get copy of tax returns asked her to get. She was quiet and went to lay down.

I can understand how you feel; I have decided to hire a lawyer and end this. I don't have the desire to continue this anymore, and my W is not anyone I would ever want a relationship with. Maybe someday, but by then I will have moved on.

My W asked me why I needed copies of returns since she filled them out on her summons.I explained to her that she is suing me and I need to counter claim in my response. She got angry when I mentioned the cost of retaining L. She thinks it's inexpensive because of mediation. Not the case! I had a bible study and had to leave , she followed me to car and got in. She was angry I hired an attorney. I didn't loose my cool or get angry in any way. She calmed down, started to cry, and told me she was sorry just just wasn't happy.she said she didnt think i ever loved her. I told her i was sorry felt that way but that wasnt the case.she mentioned how well things were going with her job and me helping w kids. I said that I was happy helping, but how she thought this would work out getting a D. She had no answer. Iwhen I got home she wanted to show me pics.of our real estate listing. Sat with her a while on her bed for a while. I told her we are going to be in each other s lives till we die and I just thought she was rushing things. Probably went in one ear and out the other. Just a painful situation.

igit, you and I man...I am telling you...we are the same people in a parallel universe. My W did not understand the concept of a D being a lawsuit and a contested one at that is a recipe for unpleasantness. It is interesting though that she broke down at the news as it suddenly she is realizing the full gravity of what a D will entail. That it is not a Sunday picnic in the park. You did great, but in the future, maybe do not say things like 'how did you think the D would work out' and 'i just think you are rushing things' because yea, it goes in one ear and out the other. It also implies a logical mind at the other end of your words, and right now, her mind is not there.

Keep up the good work buddy!

Tuff day today. W called me on her way home asked me what I was going to do tonite. I was honest and said work on info my L needed to respond to lawsuit. She asked me what I was going to do. I said well my L said there would be a hearing set up for 3 to 4 weeks from now with judge on summons. If he ruled in her favor I would need to vacate home in a few weeks after that, also nd to pay temp spousal and kids support. She got very quiet . I had to go into a meeting and cut conversation short. I got home and she wanted to talk. My boys came in and saved me from a talk. Anyway not really in to good a mood to talk to her. She has Affair, and wants to break up family, and thinks I should be ok. Anyway not sure how her job is going to fit into this equation. I am getting to the point of giving her what she wants on all the request in summons. Getting this over with so I can move on. I am sure there are woman out there that would treat me better then this.

Hi igit. I saw your request for help, so here I am.

First of all, is she still seeing the OM? Right now you need to take a harder stance with her. Act as if she was a neighbor rather than a friend. I know this is incredibly hard for you right now. Stick to your guns and start being the MAN.

Pilot, w is following me around like a lost dog. I am not really in a mood to deal with her rt now. I am looking for your input. Whether she realizes it or not she has put me in a place where she has her L ask for all this L stuff a good L will do for there client. We have been getting along well for last month as far as roommates are concerned. I feel like a whipped dog but have stepped up big time for kids and her w new job. After my L meeting yesterday I hAve changed my strategy. I was friendly yesterday and last night but did let her know about lawsuit she filed.today I have been distant. She has called me wanting to talk, I got home she wants to talk, she takes D12 to vball.and calls and wants to talk. I answered her 3rd call, she asked me what I am doing, I told her going to my office to deal with D paperwork. She asked if we could talk, I said not now, I wasn't in the mood and didn't want to get angry. She said she wants to talk. I honestly don't know what good will come from a talk rt now. I want her to feel the impact of what she has done. It's hard to go dark with kids but I need to stay as distant as I can for now. In reality she will not hear or get anything from my response for 2weeks. I don't want her to get impression that I am angry, but as far as helping her with any of her responsibilities I am going to ask for a schedule w kids I will drop them off in am as I have committed to, however I am not going to pick them up for her, I am needing to treat this like I am already D. Any thoughts on this. She knows how I feel about a D and knows the effort I have put in. But it takes 2 to tango and frankly she doesn't want to dance. I don't want to talk at this point I just don't see any good coming from it. Yesterday when I mentioned the items listed in summons she wanted to talk about. I told her you and only you can stop this and left room. I will talk to her about anything and be pleasant. I just don't think talk about th I s is rt move until after I respond to summons

Mr Bond, I believe she is! 4-5 weeks ago I saw her car in his garage, she has a full time teaching job but is very sneaky. I was served a summons for a D a few weeks ago. I am responding with my L next week. I have been very nice to her and helping with getting kids to school. since she leaves at 6am for her teaching job. She filed for D in late July, got a job 2 weeks after the filing. < I didn't know of filing, summons was a surprise> so she gets a job , asked me if I could commit to getting 3 kids to school in mornings, and then serves me late August. She now wants to talk, it seams she is quite nervous the last few days , < I needed to get copies of tax returns and didn't know where she had them> So I asked her to get them for me since I needed for my L. I have not been angry , just not really in the mood to discuss anything. Any ideas?

HI MR BOND, MAKING SURE THIS got back to you.. To answer your question I am not certain she is still seeing other m, however she has become so sneaky I believe she still is. I saw her car in his garage 5-6 weeks ago. I have to drive by his home almost everyday because of a detour. Anyway saw garage shut and looked like her car in garage. I texted her and told her they should get some blinds for garage. Anyway I was served D papers a few weeks ago. I will back up a minute and tell you she got a teaching job mid August, She filed late July <not known to me until I was served papers August 15th> Prior to her accepting job she asked if I could commit to getting 3 young kids to school. Of Course I agreed thinking this is what she needed to get her life on track. then served 2 weeks later. met with my L yesterday and needed to get Tax returns. I asked Where they were last night. told her reason why and asked if she could put them out for me this am before she left for work. She didn't do that, so I asked her again tonight after work. she asked if we could talk and I told her no I wasn't in the mood to talk with her. she said she would get for me tonite when she got back from vball with kids. Anyway looking for your advise on how to deal with this.
thank you MR BOND

Originally Posted By: igit

Pilot, w is following me around like a lost dog. I am not really in a mood to deal with her rt now. I am looking for your input. Whether she realizes it or not she has put me in a place where she has her L ask for all this L stuff a good L will do for there client. We have been getting along well for last month as far as roommates are concerned. I feel like a whipped dog but have stepped up big time for kids and her w new job. After my L meeting yesterday I hAve changed my strategy. I was friendly yesterday and last night but did let her know about lawsuit she filed.today I have been distant. She has called me wanting to talk, I got home she wants to talk, she takes D12 to vball.and calls and wants to talk. I answered her 3rd call, she asked me what I am doing, I told her going to my office to deal with D paperwork. She asked if we could talk, I said not now, I wasn't in the mood and didn't want to get angry. She said she wants to talk. I honestly don't know what good will come from a talk rt now. I want her to feel the impact of what she has done. It's hard to go dark with kids but I need to stay as distant as I can for now. In reality she will not hear or get anything from my response for 2weeks. I don't want her to get impression that I am angry, but as far as helping her with any of her responsibilities I am going to ask for a schedule w kids I will drop them off in am as I have committed to, however I am not going to pick them up for her, I am needing to treat this like I am already D. Any thoughts on this. She knows how I feel about a D and knows the effort I have put in. But it takes 2 to tango and frankly she doesn't want to dance. I don't want to talk at this point I just don't see any good coming from it. Yesterday when I mentioned the items listed in summons she wanted to talk about. I told her you and only you can stop this and left room. I will talk to her about anything and be pleasant. I just don't think talk about th I s is rt move until after I respond to summons

igit, I am with you on this one. Your W following you around like a puppy could mean many things, so try not to figure it out. She could be feeling guilty about hurting you, she could be feeling guilty about doing this, she could just be testing the waters to see how you will react in your filing. From what you have said about your W, I think she is much like mine in that she really does not understand that a D is a lawsuit, and an adversarial one at that. She probably thinks you file D and then things are all hunky dory. When in reality it takes 2 people (especially when L are involved and forces them to duke it out when it is a contested divorce)

I applaud you for ducking your Ws request to talk. She is probably getting nervous/questioning herself as to why you will not answer. Your reply is a big unknown to her and she wants to know.

As for picking up your kids after school if she cannot, be careful. Remember, they are kids. They do not need to be pawns in this adult business. They need to always be taken care of. Now, having said that, I am in the same shoes where once my wife starts working, she will not be able to pick up my oldest as he gets out of school at 3 and the assumption is she will be working a 9-5 job. She will want me to pay for an aftercare, and I will refuse. I already pay an aftercare for S3. I will offer to pick up S5, but I will be very clear that IF I pick him up, he will come home with me. I will not waste 2-3 hours a day hanging around her town (an hour from me) waiting for her to get off work. Or she can pay for aftercare herself. I am tired of insulating her from the harsh realities of the world. And you should not do that for your W either. IF your W wants to be out in the world on her own, let the world have its way with her. If she makes it, good for her. If not, well, maybe she will appreciate what you had done for her in the past.

Thanks Pilot, your rt about the kids. The problem is I have a business to run, I am happy to get kids after school but she will wait till 230 and ask if I can get kids at 3 330. I have been super dad because I know they are having some missing mommy feelings and I want to take care of them. But w seems to be raking advantage of me. So Far As TALK ING About Lawsuit I am going to stay away from that one and start acting like I'm D. My time is going to be my time. I came home tonite and she was in my room with boys laying on my bed. I went into my D12 s room and hung out with her for a while. I am sure W is nervous about things. She should be , she has always been controlling do to her insecurities, in her mind I believe she thinks all will be honky dorey. I got news for her, it won't be. Tomorrow is anniversery, I know I am jumping around but she called me tonite while I was at office working on my D stuff. Wanting to know what I was doing and when I was coming home, she had told me earlier in day she was going out w her girlfriend tomorrow night. Our 17yr.anniversary. well when she called she asked me what I was doing and I told her I was going to do something fun with kids since she had plans. Well then she said well I am not going out, I told you maybe I was going out. I really don't care what she does. I know she was testing me to see if I wanted to go out and tr alk. That will be something she suggest tomorrow let's go out for dinner. Not going to get ducked into that one

Pilot,took off early this morning to work and go to some meetings. I have this card for 17yr anniversary I was going to give W that has a picture of kids. was going to write I will always remember this day 17yrs ago and what it brought us. and leave it at that! No I love you's no I miss you's. any thoughts on that one! Not sure its pursing! I know I wont be getting any cards!

igit, my BD was 4 days before our 15th anniversary. I feel the pain you are experiencing. I switched gifts and went with a card basically thanking her for 15 years of marriage and 2 wonderful children. I did write that I loved her and that I was sorry I was not able to communicate that to her more effectively. That was prior to reading DR and DB and being on this board. I got nothing and that stung. However, now I know I should have had 0 expectations.

Bdub, don't feel bad about card. We are only human, at the time your emotions were extremely high and I can understand why you did the card. There was nothing wrong with what u did. I mean 5 days before annv.you were still in shock and disbelief. I have a pic.of our xmas card with kids on it. Going to drop giving cars and just using picture. She is ac ting very weird last few days, trying to reach out to me. I am not getting involved with her period until other m is out of picture.

Do you plan on ignoring all of her advances? Or at some point will you hear what she has to say? Not judging, just asking...

Pilot, I am not sure, she is such a control freak. It migHT be wise to keep things close to my vest rt now. I don't think it's a bad idea for her to think I am ok and moving on. Let her do her thing and I will do mine. Stay super busy after work, work late ect. Nothing is going to happen with D hearing for prob.3 to 4 wks. I don't think it's a bad idea to see how things will be in future. No me to control. What are your thoughts on picture

Well since you asked, I would not write what you wanted to on it. I know it is nice, and it is something you WANT to say, but ask yourself if you are REALLY hoping to spark some memories in her. You may be looking for a response and you most likely will not get one. A picture collage (spelling?) covering your entire 17 years of marriage may be something to consider. Wedding/child births/fun times together etc. No words, just a collage. She will get the idea, and since it is an anniversary it is appropriate to cover those 17 years.

Pilot, s o I have been avoiding w most of day.this afternoon I took a much needed nap.woke up and kids and w were home. I said a little sarcastically happy anniversary. W got a little irritated because D12 heard.we went outside and conversation did not start to well.she asked me why i wouldnt talk to her.I said i just dont think i can talk to you rt now. I think you are still having your fling and until that is over i dont have anything to discuss.she said its over why cant i believe her.I told her i just cant trust what you tell me rt now. Im sorry i feel that way.Conversation then got better between us. We were not angry or heated she said she just wasnt a happy person rt now. She said its not fair to you and I know its not fair to the kids. I said do you think it would be best for kids to stay with me. I don't think you can be there for them with your work. She said well either can you. I said exactly. So why do this. She said well maybe we should just seperate for a while. I said the lawsuit has been started only you can stop it. Amy way she left for library and to sell some football tickets She has called me a few times laughing at our wedding photographer, she said it was a beautiful wedding. She said we need to talk more. I told her my door was open to her. She called back to see if I was ok. I said I was fine. I don't know if she is second guessing herself thinking about a seperation, I am corn fused.

Pilot, s o I have been avoiding w most of day.this afternoon I took a much needed nap.woke up and kids and w were home. I said a little sarcastically happy anniversary. W got a little irritated because D12 heard.we went outside and conversation did not start to well.she asked me why i wouldnt talk to her.I said i just dont think i can talk to you rt now. I think you are still having your fling and until that is over i dont have anything to discuss.she said its over why cant i believe her.I told her i just cant trust what you tell me rt now. Im sorry i feel that way.Conversation then got better between us. We were not angry or heated she said she just wasnt a happy person rt now. She said its not fair to you and I know its not fair to the kids. I said do you think eellhad a good c We laughed about some of the funny things about wedding.

Pilot my reply didn't come thru , let me finish by saying when I asked her if she thought kids would be better with me do to her job and her not having enough time for them. Her reply was well how would you. My answer was my thoughts exactly. Don't you think we could do this better together. Anyway I told her I needed tax returns, she said she wanted to talk about it. I told her it was in motion. I needed to do this. Anyway she had to go to library, she called and said maybe we should seperate for a while. I don't know what that means. I told her we would talk about it

igit, I would not rule out the possibility she really is having second thoughts. I have read where it has happened to others that as D date gets close, or in your case, a D deadline, it really starts to hit home with the WAS. She really may be having second thoughts. I am not saying drop your guard, but maybe brush aside some of those boulders on the pathway back home.

I have faith you will know to what extent to expose yourself to an unknown. Keep the faith!

Pilot I am not sure what is going on with her. She has always refused to see a psychologist. For her individual issues. Today I see bills on counter and there is a bill from 2 recent visits.she was telling me earlier in conversation she doesn't know why she is unhappy. She doesn't want to hurt me and she doesn't want to hurt kids. She is all over the place. I am trying to be as gentle as possible with her but need to face realities of legal stuff. I have been trying to get tax returns for 4 days from her and she is not providing. Tomorrow I may just tell her look I need to give these to my L on monday morning. If you are having second thoughts and want to talk about a different course of action then let's talk about it. I may do the collage of pics.didn't give her anything today. I know things would get back difficult living together going through the process of a D. There is just to many raw emotions. I honestly don't know if I will be able to be her freind for a long time l lif we D. I just think it would be to. Difficult to even see her. She asked me what would be the hardest part for me. I told her saying goodbye to her. I don't think that was what she was expecting. It will be a very emotional week coming up.

Ok, I am going to suggest something which might be difficult for you. But give her a chance to talk. Your recent posts have all mentioned her wanting to 'talk' and you have avoided that. I dont blame you for avoiding that, and I certainly get the notion of protecting yourself with the legal matters. However from what I am reading over the past several days is your W really is confused. Now add that to the discovery she is seeing professional help, it is quite possible she really is having second thoughts but does not know how to approach them, or you. The tax return issue would speak to this as well. She may be withholding them simply to stall, delay, or in some way not want to continue down the path she started.

Now this is all speculation, and I am by no means saying I know this for sure, but give her a chance. Sit down with her, and listen. Listen and validate. I would be cautious of what you say, but give her a chance to speak. However, if she is anything like my W, she will not speak freely. You will have to wrestle and pry it from her even if she is dying to say it.

I also hold off on mentioning how difficult D will be on her or you in the future. You have said it a couple of times, so no need to repeat it. She knows. Was her offer to separate instead of proceed with a D? Your statement of you do not think you can be friends is an emotional one, and I totally get it. I feel the same way at times. But you have kids, young ones at that, which means you and her will be constantly in contact for a very long long time. Even when your kids are grown, you two will be bound. In time, even if you D, a friendship is possible. Time does heal all wounds. It is just hard to see at this juncture.

Again, I do not mean to upset your apple cart. But perhaps extending an olive branch would not be a bad thing the next time she makes an overture at wanting to talk to you. What is the worse that can happen? If it turns out to be a bust for you, well, you still have your summons to answer this week. Best case, things get delayed a bit, and steps are taken in a positive direction.

Pilot, your rt on with letting her talk. She came into my room and gave me tax returns. I looked her in the eyes and asked her if she wanted to talk. She said yes I been trying to talk to you for last 4 months. You won't listen etc. We don't have to do things like this rt now if you can talk to me maybe we can figure something out together. So we see what transpires Today

igit, take this as a GREAT sign. not to let your guard down, but she is opening up about some of her frustrations. her saying she has been trying to 'talk' to you for 4 months but you wont listen. In other words, she has been saying something maybe you have not been hearing. listen to what she has to say. validate. do not point fingers or cast blame. use this opportunity to show off the new you.

this is a good thing for you!

I would just also like to add caution to not get your expectation built up for anything. Just listen to what she has to say, validate, and make the interaction as positive for both of you as possible. Your M wont be fixed over this one talk, but it certainly can be a good step in the right direction.

Pilot, thanks for encouragement.I have seen w a total of 20 min.today. taking kids for cookout. I asked w if she wanted to talk,180 for me. So we see how it go's no expectations. Going to keep my mouth shut and listen and validate

Just catching up now. So how did the talk go? I will tell you that her confusion will come through her voice. Just validate her feelings and say that you will not stop her from doing what she wants to, but you have to do what you feel is right for you and the kids. Then leave it at that.

Let her rack her brain as to what that means. The more confusion she has the better.

Pilot, went well we're going on a 2nd honeymoon today. Just kidding! Did not have the talk last night. I got home with kids from cookout w kids and checked in with w who was in her room working on her lesson plan. She seemed stressed and focused on her task. So I got the kids a bath, to bed. Went to bed myself. I have to go out of town for a funeral tomorrow. Not sure I will talk about summons with her, I will listen and discuss other ideas in lieu of D. PILOT, have you set up DB coach. There booked out a week or 2. Good luck with that.