Well, I will start this post with some background. MY wife and I have been married for 11 years. She was 18 and I was 21 when we got married. We have 3 daughters, ages 12, 10, and 8. The 12 year old is from a previous relationship that she had and she was 1 when I started raising her. So, with that, here goes...
When we met, we both believed that we have found the one. Everything moved so fast. We met in January 2003, she was pregnant in March, and we Married in July 2003. After the newly wed phase was over, we began to have problems. I am in the Navy and she had to move away from her family. At the time, I did not realize how much that hurt her. After about 1 year of marriage, we were fighting, a lot. I'll admit, that after we got married, I felt like "I got her" and did not really put in the effort to continue to grow as a couple. Since we were having all these issues, I started to email an ex-fiance of mine. It was a few emails, but in them I said stuff like "I would give anything to just see your face" and "I feel like we have unfinished business." Well, my wife found the emails and she was crushed. We worked through it though. After she got a job at Target, she started talking to a guy that worked there. Long story short, one day she went to lunch with him, he leaned over the table and kissed her, she left and called me to tell me what happened, and that she was so sorry. Again, we moved past it and things were good. A few months later, a girl I used to date started working where I did, although nothing happened between us, it was a strain on our marriage. Lots of fights about her. We made it through that duty station and then moved back to Guam. That is where she is from. While we were stationed there, she found a secret email account that I had. I used this for porn sights. I also used it to email another woman. This was nothing but a joke me and my friend were playing on this girl. Kind of a lets see what she will say to you. Things were explicit in these emails, but I never did anything with her, just a joke she had no idea about. When my wife found this, she was again hurt and betrayed, which was never my intention. We got through it.
In 2009, we became distant in Guam and I started drinking with here uncle. He lived right next door to us. Next door to him was a woman. We began flirting with each other. We were drinking outside her place one night, and the next thing I knew it was just me and her. I was helping her clean up the mess that was left behind. It was 2 am and my wife came outside. She said she woke up suddenly from a dead sleep and felt like something was not right. She came out, yelled at me. I told her that nothing happened, and that we had been flirting with each other for about a week, that is the truth. She did not believe me because I have lied to her in the past. Well, I left 2 months later to go have repairs done to the ship I was stationed on. After I left, the neighbor was walking around saying she was pregnant and that the baby was mine. Again, impossible because I never did anything with this woman. She would ask my wife for money to get stuff she needed, like prenatal vitamins and to help pay for doctors appointments. My wife and I fought about this for a few months. I was thousands of miles away and could do nothing to convince her that what the other woman was saying was false. Eventually we did not even talk that much. During this time, she found comfort with another woman who was also going through marital issues. They started going out a lot and partying, leaving their kids to their own devices to survive. She had a couple of one night stands. When I got back, she was in a full blown relationship with another guy. I fought so hard to get my marriage back, and it paid off. Even though she wanted a divorce, I stayed strong and showed her that I was not willing to give up. But, while she was in this relationship with him, I began to talk to the woman she did all the partying with. She was also going to get a divorce, so I figured I could pay her attention and find out everything that my wife did so that I had all the ammo I needed in case we got the divorce. My wife was a terrible mom at the time, and I was not going to let her get custody of the children. So, I slept with her best friend, made her think I was going to take care of her, even though I had no intention. It was a dark and confusing time in my life. Low and behold, her friend told me everything. We were 1 week away from divorce when we reconciled. I did not tell her about the friend.
Fast forward to 2012. We again moved, now on the east coast. We had a party and I got black out drunk, I am not a drinker. I guess while I was black out drunk, I Facebook messaged one of her friends and said some inappropriate things. I do not remember doing this. I woke up the next morning and saw the messages on my phone and immediately send her a message that apologized and that I don't remember sending them. A few weeks went by and her friend called my wife and told her about it. We got through the fallout from that.
Well, her best friend that I had slept with was also stationed in the same location we are. We did birthdays and holidays together. I just tried to pretend that it never happened, because under normal circumstances, it would not have. Her best friend got drunk and told a mutual friend that we had slept together before. In September 2013, my wife found out from this mutual friend. My wife is not exactly hurt because of sleeping with her best friend, she understands why I did it. What she is having a hard time getting over is that I never told her and continued to let this woman into our house. That I let her continue to be friends with her. I told her on multiple occasions that she ws not a good friend, but never told her why.
So, we were working through it. She has said on several occasions that she was having a hard time getting past it. I did not take the time to help her. Our anniversary was on July 26, I was out to sea but pulled in on the 28th. The whole time I was goine I got nothing but I love you, I miss you, and I can not wait to see you emails from my wife. Even on our anniversary. The day I pulled in, she said she wanted a divorce and she wanted me out of the house. I packed some things and went to a friends house. She called that night and wanted me to come home. We made love. She said that wee needed to date each other again, and I was all for it. The next day, I got home from work and she said that she wanted a 1 year separation so she can figure herself out. She does not know who she is without me. She said I should date other woman so that if we reconciled, she knew it was her that I wanted to be with. I asked her if that means she could also date, she said yes. So, we started sleeping in separate rooms. She would never come out of the bedroom. I found out that about a week after I was home, she had started dating. I told her that I can not watch the woman that I love go on dates with anyone. So, again, I packed up and left. I am currently staying with a friend.
She has gone on several dates since I left. I have no desire to date because she is the one I want to be with. I know she is hurt and dealing with her own issues.
When I found out she wanted to separate, I was desperate, begging, pleading, telling her I was going to change and all that jazz. Its true though, I am going to change.
A few days ago, I started the 180 treatment towards her. It worked the very first day, she was texting me and asking if I was seeing anyone, I just did not respond to her for hours. Then she said nevermind it was none of her business. She texted me really late at night and called me. The text was that she really wanted to talk to me, and I missed her cal at 1am becuase I was sleeping. I texted her the next morning what it was she wanted to talk about, and she said nevermind. I emotionally texted her through out that day. She dont trust me, doesn't know what she wants. She says she is trying to forgive me but dont know how to. So, I did not text her anything about us for the past 2 days, only about the kids and financial matters. She has not texted me about anything. It hurts, but I feel like I have to be strong and get myself together. I was a depressed mess, not sleeping without the help of zzzQuil, not eating (lost 20 pounds in 2 1/2 weeks). Cant focus on anything.
Is there any hope to getting her back. I will wait for her. Is it crazy that I have this unconditional love for her. I just do not know what to do. Even as I type this, she is texting me about when I am coming home (have the kids on vacation right now). I am lost right now, I just want to get my wife and family back.
Sorry for the looooong post, just wanted to get the story out there.
Really looking for what I should be doing. I am not begging or texting her anymore. As a matter of fact, she texted me if I was still coming home tomorrow, I said yes 2 hours later. Then she asked me how the kids are, I responded with Good. Then she said, "ok, one word answers, lol, I'll adjust"
Our daughters have cell phones, so she can just ask them.
Is she trying to get am emotional response, I am emotional, but not showing her anymore.
Hi, I am sorry for the situation you are in. With so much history, I can see why you are wanting to focus on getting some solid feedback. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
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303-444-7004
I don't understand why your texts are not more warm towards her? You don't need to be emotional, but friendly would be good. More than one word. Anger (or perceived anger) rarely helps a situation like this.
I guess I do not know how to be more warm without coming across as needy. I am trying to do the 180 but am in the early days of it. How should I respond?
I do not know what to do. I am crazy in love with this woman. I know that I need to give her space, I am, as hard as it is. I head back home tomorrow. I fought and waited the last time we were separated, and she said she came back because she realized how much our family meant to me, it still does mean the world to me. I am willing to fight and wait again, just not sure how to go about it smarter than I did last time.
Had some more texts today. I told her I'm not being short and that I am just giving her the space she wants.
So, weird day today. She texted me in the morning if she could keep my last name during the divorce. I asked her if her mind was made up, she said yes. I then said, look, we are separated so you can work on yourself and I can work on myself, then we will see where we are at. She said that she does not think we can work it out (she should have said that she does not think she can work it out, I am willing.) I told her again that we are working on each other separately. She said, ok, she would not push the divorce issue.
I had to stop by to print some stuff out for a passport application. I left, then needed to go back to get some checks. When I was there, she was sitting on the bed, I kissed her on the head, then she brought her head up for a kiss, so I kissed her. She said we shouldn't, but the look in her eye said differently. She said that she is still physically attracted to me, its just the other stuff she is having a hard time with. So, we had sex. She told me "I hate you" while we were having sex. So, when we were done, she said we should not have done it. I kissed her, told her I loved her, put on my clothes and left. She just laid there thinking. I am not going text or call her for the rest of the day. I am going to leave her to her thoughts.
I do not know what is going on in her head, she seems confused about what she wants. Can anyone give me guidance on what to do now?
I'm not an expert at this and really new myself but it sounds like your wife still loves you and wants to work things out. Have you considered talking to her about going to some marriage counselling?
She says she loves me. As for MC, I asked a few weeks ago and she said no. She is dating right now, I'm not. She said she has gone on a few dates but nothing crazy. I think I just need to leave her be and continue to work on me. I just don't know what is going on in her head. I not sure she does either. I am so confused right now. I'm not going to contact her the rest of the day. In fact, I will wait until she initiates.
Can anyone give me any guidance on what to do?
Loveher,
I would suggest to you that there is a GULF of "grey" between the "black" of one-word terse texts to her, and the "white" of having sex with her.
It is in that grey where you want to be DBing.
Starsky
I think even the grey is confusing. I kind of regret having sex with her, but I don't at the same time. She is the only one I want to be with. I just do not know what to do. Is leaving her alone the rest of the day the right thing? I literally, got up after, got dressed, told her that I love her, and left. She just laid there, and I could see that she was in thought. She said this never happened. Again, we have been separated for just under a month. She needs space to figure herself out, I just do not know what is too much and what is too little.
That was too much. The terse text messaging was too little.
Treat her as you would a neighbor with whom you're fairly friendly (but not close), and work on yourself. That is how you detach.
Starsky
I don't want to detach, but I know I have to. I am reading DR but I have not got too far into it yet, just got it 2 days ago, and yesterday was a day of driving to VA from PA.
I feel like if I detach too much, she will think that I do not want to be with her. I want to be desirable to her again. The truth is, it does not matter to me what she does on her current path, I would go back in a heart beat.
I feel like if I detach too much, she will think that I do not want to be with her.
Very, VERY common misconception that nearly everyone thinks when they land here. She KNOWS how you feel about her, trust me -- it oozes from your posts, and I'm sure she feels it even moreso. But that's not the important part of it -- detachment is for YOU. It's necessary in order to get thru this phase.
Starsky
I want to be desirable to her again. The truth is, it does not matter to me what she does on her current path, I would go back in a heart beat.
That sounds more like CO-DEPENDENCY to me than LOVE, Loveher. That's not healthy. A good read for you after reading DR would be "Co-Dependent No More."
And strategically, you will only be successful in this if your wife feels a credible fear of losing you. If she knows she's got you hanging on like a puppy dog on a string (ok, I'm mixing my metaphors here, lol) you will NEVER be successful at attracting her back. She has to think "Oh cr*p -- I went too far. Loveher seems to be moving on without me!"
Trust me on this.
Starsky
I thought the same thing. Detaching is what helped save ME which allowed me to come off to H as someone he wants to be with. Especially since you are the man. Women want a MAN. Show her you are strong. That is attractive to a woman. We don't want desperation.
It's only when I truly started to let go of my H that it caught his attention. Let her think as it is said around here - you've had an awakening and you are MOVING on with YOUR life!
Starsky,
I understand that, but it feels wrong, but I have to do it. Does detaching make yourself any more desirable? By detaching, do you up your chances for getting her back?
I'm sorry for sounding like a baby. She is paying to use a dating website, and I am afraid that she will meet someone that is going to sweep her off her feet. I mean, when we separated, she said she was not looking for anything, but then she started dating a week later. How a, I supposed to take that?
TO,
Thanks, I appreciate it. I would love to get a woman's point of view. I mean, I felt good today when I left after we had sex, not just because of the act. I did not stay and tell her that this what is should be and stuff like that. I just put on my clothes and left, after I kissed her on the head and told her I loved her.
It is such an emotional roller coaster. Earlier today, I forgot this part, I read her a letter letting her know that I know she needs space and that I did not want our marriage to end. I gave it to her after I read it, and left.
You need to state some clear boundaries. You should NOT Be sleeping with her!
Come on this woman is on a dating site! Have more respect for yourself!
She is saying it's over and wants a divorce, she is on a dating site. You should no way be engaging her by sleeping with her
I may not be a 100% expert here but if you do not make some boundaries this woman will continue to walk all over you. Then she will not see you as a man. You need to be desired. Be mysterious.
Go out with friends, get a life, laugh, have fun.
Don't always be available for her calls or texts (unless it is pertaining to the children)
I'm sorry for sounding like a baby. She is paying to use a dating website, and I am afraid that she will meet someone that is going to sweep her off her feet. I mean, when we separated, she said she was not looking for anything, but then she started dating a week later. How a, I supposed to take that?
Yes, you kinda are (sounding like a baby). Stop that.
Neediness is NOT attractive. If, in the above scenario, she met someone on there and left you over that? Then she wasn't a woman of quality that you would have wanted to be with anyway.
Use this time to get to know LOVEHER (heck, start with a new username -- it just SCREAMS co-dependent!! Something that is about YOU!). Get to know your core, non-negotiable beliefs.
Do you know what they are???Look, this is tough stuff -- I know, I went thru this. My wife of 47 and mother of our four children was having an affair with a 29 year old personal trainer. It was a KICK IN MY GUT, and it felt like a truck was sitting on my chest when I found out. I get it. But unless you snap out of this "woe-is-me" thing you've got going, you have ZERO CHANCE of saving your marriage, bro.
btw, I saved mine. What we are telling you WORKS. It's counter-intuitive, but let's face it -- your intuitive "instincts" are what landed you in the first place, right?
Starsky
Well, I will start this post with some background. MY wife and I have been married for 11 years. She was 18 and I was 21 when we got married. . . .
When we met, we both believed that we have found the one. Everything moved so fast. We met in January 2003, she was pregnant in March, and we Married in July 2003.
Did you have any serious relationships before your wife?
How comfortable are you being ALONE, L.H.?
Starsky,
Thank you again, I appreciate all of the sound advice. I was in 2 serious relationships prior to her. Am I comfortable being by myself, yes, by myself with these thoughts, no. I have moved in with a great friend (weird, he is my best friend and he actually married someone she went to high school with). They are tremendously positive people, and she has even tried to find out where my W is at. Again, I made mistakes in my marriage, but, I do love this woman.
I miss my daughters the most. There is no set visitation schedule. She lets me come and see them/take them whenever I want. When she is not in this mind state, she really is an amazing wife, it just took me a while to get my act together.
TO,
GOT IT! No more sleeping with her. Even though I have needs, I will not go to her for them. Should I start seeing other people or just focus only on myself. The last time we separated, I actually took the kids and moved out, she was in that bad of a spot emotionally.
All I know, is that if we can somehow get this figured out, and R, I will never do another thing to let this woman go.
So, what should I refer to this as, that she is a WS or WAS?
What does L.H. mean? Lonely husband"?
I must add that I am in the military and I deploy for 6 months in November, with 1 month of gone time between now and then, I really do not have much time, I feel like if I leave and its not resolved, it is over.
She took off her wedding rings. I can't find it in my heart to take mine off. I mean, we are still married. Should I take mine off?
Still showing up on my screen as "Loveher" ???
What does L.H. mean? Lonely husband"?
LoveHer.
She took off her wedding rings. I can't find it in my heart to take mine off. I mean, we are still married. Should I take mine off?
That's an intensely personal decision, L.H. It's up to you. If you're still standing for your marriage, then you should probably keep them on. The only consensus around here is that no matter WHAT you do, DON'T do it to get any sort of "reaction" out of her -- do it because it feels authentic to YOU.
Starsky
Should I start seeing other people or just focus only on myself.
Seeing other people will only complicate things and distract you from working on you. Your time will be best spent focusing on yourself -- not your W, not another W, but
you and your D.
She took off her wedding rings. I can't find it in my heart to take mine off. I mean, we are still married. Should I take mine off?
Personal decision. Don't take them off in an attempt to spite her. If you are done and advertising to the world that you are not married, then take them off. If you are trying to save your M, then you still consider yourself married, right? Leave them on.
LH,
One thing you have to realize is that a WAW in the fog of an affair is the most selfish creature known to man and everything you think you know about showing love and reconciliation is wrong. A gesture such as wearing a ring will most likely have the effect of enraging a WAW if she even notices it. She will think "doesn't that jerk understand I told him we are done?" Or they will see right through it as just that, a gesture. The only thing that gets their attention, because they are selfish, is when they see you do not want or need them and you are moving on with your life. This makes them want what they cannot have and she will pursue you. Right now she knows she can have you back anytime she wants so it doesn't represent a challenge; your neediness is boring and unattractive. You must act as if you do not need her at all and you are glad to have your freedom and wish the best for her new life too. Then go as dark as you can and use the time and space to GAL. Do not initiate contact at all; make her come to you while being polite and giving the impression you have moved on and you are enjoying yourself. I see you have at least one child with her; find an intermediary to go through for handing off child and child related messages so you are not tempted to backslide; isolate her from your friendship. Your first objective is ending her relationship with OM; you do this by putting yourself off limits to her. Simultaneously you need to work on improving yourself and making yourself into the person any woman would be thrilled to have and your W would be a fool to leave.
She is not seeing any particular man. She has gone dates with a couple and I don't believe there has been anything physical. It's hard. The pain of rejection is killing me. I have not contacted her at all since our fling in the afternoon. I am trying to deal, just extremely difficult. I'm hitting the gym today and it am going to start a workout routine. I've got to take out this aggression. Is it normal to go from feeling pain to anger? I know I have made my fair share of mistakes in our relationship, but she said we would get through it like we always do. Today has not been bad. I still feel like crap but not like I have been.
She has said in several occasions that she wants me to see other people, that if we do R she wants to know its her I want to be with. Thoughts on that?
This is typical BS from a wayward.
If you start seeing other people, that helps her justify what she's doing. Her thinking is "See, we agree to an open M, so I'm not doing anything wrong."
She is looking for your approval for her infidelity.
You're probably closer to the "I know it's you I want to be with, and that's why I made a life long marriage commitment to you." end of the spectrum.
This is typical BS from a wayward.
If you start seeing other people, that helps her justify what she's doing. Her thinking is "See, we agree to an open M, so I'm not doing anything wrong."
She is looking for your approval for her infidelity.
Thank you. I have been talking to a girl I used to date 13 years ago, just as friends. It's hard, and I continue to put myself through more misery. Whenever I see she is online on the dating website, it kills me.
I tried to change my name but it hasn't been approved yet.
I am sorry that you find yourself posting here; but, yes there is hope. I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Coaches can help you clarify your thinking and focus on your marriage goals. Your situation is not hopeless, we can help keep your marriage and family together. Please call me to discuss our personalized, divorce busting program. 303-444-7004.
Innocent text messages turned bad. I said something that I did not think was bad but she took it that way and BOOM! Things got heated for her. I was feeling good today until then. I deleted the texts so I did not have to look at them.
I get the same from WAW. Except she never texts me and I stopped trying because the rejection was making me feel like doo-doo.
It is almost as if the WAW has a need to keep the anger and resentment going or their guilt will eat them up. My W will reply with anger and rudeness to the slightest disagreement or to imagined provocation. Just have to depersonalize it, realize it is not about you. Refusing to play the game takes away the negative energy that a WAW needs to keep the distance between you.
I know I need not to play into it. When she gets going I feel like I have to calm it down. But, I guess since it is her issues to deal with that I shouldn't. She was like, I'm not going to hash out 11 years of an unhappy marriage over text. I wasn't even doing that. Also. If you were that unhappy for 11 years, why stay so long.
So, she is now seeing one guy. My daughter told me and she started crying. I can't lie, it pissed me off. I asked my wife about it and she says he is just a friend who understands her situation. What do I do?
So, she is now seeing one guy. My daughter told me and she started crying. I can't lie, it pissed me off. I asked my wife about it and she says he is just a friend who understands her situation. What do I do?
Casey gave you your road map in the 2nd half of this excellent post to you yesterday:
LH,
One thing you have to realize is that a WAW in the fog of an affair is the most selfish creature known to man and everything you think you know about showing love and reconciliation is wrong. A gesture such as wearing a ring will most likely have the effect of enraging a WAW if she even notices it. She will think "doesn't that jerk understand I told him we are done?" Or they will see right through it as just that, a gesture. The only thing that gets their attention, because they are selfish, is when they see you do not want or need them and you are moving on with your life. This makes them want what they cannot have and she will pursue you. Right now she knows she can have you back anytime she wants so it doesn't represent a challenge; your neediness is boring and unattractive. You must act as if you do not need her at all and you are glad to have your freedom and wish the best for her new life too. Then go as dark as you can and use the time and space to GAL. Do not initiate contact at all; make her come to you while being polite and giving the impression you have moved on and you are enjoying yourself. I see you have at least one child with her; find an intermediary to go through for handing off child and child related messages so you are not tempted to backslide; isolate her from your friendship. Your first objective is ending her relationship with OM; you do this by putting yourself off limits to her. Simultaneously you need to work on improving yourself and making yourself into the person any woman would be thrilled to have and your W would be a fool to leave.
So today, I picked up my oldest to take her to Busch Gardens for a daddy/daughter day. On the way there, she started crying about stuff her mom was doing. I got mad and told my wife to stop it. Not going to get into that.
I dropped my daughter off after our outing, we had a great day. My wife wanted to talk. She said that the more and more she is in her counseling the more and more she realizes that divorce is the right thing.
She then said that she started dating other separated guys so she can have an outlet of people to talk to that are going through the same thing because with this, her circle of friends is shrinking. She says that she is checked out and that she does want a divorce. I don't want that, do I just give up?
well, the choice is up to you. Do you want to try to DB this?
I would love for us to work this out. But she is so disconnected it just seems hopeless. I know that one person can change the relationship, it just does not seem possible.
Yes, I want this marriage, I love this woman.
Ok, then. Please note that I am not a vet which means I am in a similar situation to yours and therefore NO EXPERT. I can make suggestions but frankly, I'm in a mess myself so I can only tell you what the DB book says but beyond that, wait for a vet to weigh in.
GAL, try to detach (this is so much harder than it seems but it is possible), be a good dad, don't pursue, don't fight, don't fight the D, don't call to "see how she's doing" or text outside of child business. Go make friends, call old friends, take a class, find a favorite happy hour with a buddy, read a GREAT book, start a collection, follow your interests. THIS will help you seem busy, mysterious and like you're moving on... because YOU ARE MOVING ON. Fill your mind with things Un-WIFE. Hard. Yes. Impossible... seemingly so... but not really. Post, pray/meditate, take care of yourself, GAL and don't pursue.
She may express confusion, shock, even interest... just keep on doing what you're doing. It takes time. Lots of time.
Hang in there.
I appreciate the post. MY problem is I deploy in November, once I am gone, I feel like there is nothing I can do to get her back.
Wow. I guess being deployed is the ultimate way of GAL.
Let me thank you for your service and sacrifice for our country.
Hmmm... being gone on deployment... that does present a challenge though perhaps one that can work in your favor. I understand that desire for panic and quick action but these things don't work that way, deployment or not. I've learned that the hard way.
Let a vet weigh in.
Long day yesterday. She texted me and told me she misses her best friend, which was me. She said that she wants to be friends because we were that before anything else. This threw me through a loop because we were instantly lovers. Well, it was texts like that back and forth and I told her that I missed her, then went and pointed out everything that I missed. I got home from work and called her and she was crying, which caused me to start crying.
I went to our house, and we hugged each other for a long time, we were both tying uncontrollably by now. We calmed down and we went to dinner. At dinner she asked me how I felt when I saw her dating profile, I told her that it hurt more than she could imagine. We sat and talked.
We got back to our house and again, it was hugging, crying and all that stuff. She said that she loves me and misses me. She said that if I do so the work that I need to do to become a better person, a better husband, that she would drop whatever she is doing at the end of our separation and work things out.
She is no longer on the dating websites because she said she did not like the kind of guys she was meeting on them.
What should I do now?
Ask her for no-contact with other men, immediately. You BOTH have to make your improvements to build a more-worthy relationship. The way you recounted the convo, it sounds one-sided to me like she wants to keep you out there as "Plan B" while she makes no commitment to no-contact.
FEELINGS will take months -- sometimes even a year or two -- to fully return. But making the decision to not contact OM and OW and to work on self-improvements is just that -- a DECISION (and a commitment) -- that you both can make to each other.
Starsky
I understand what you are saying, but I have had control issues in the past. I feel like if I ask her to have no contact, she will perceive it as me trying to control her. It is one of the things that I am working on. I told her that it hurts that she is seeing someone. She says that he is jut a friend that she talks to and hangs out with sometimes because he is going through a similar situation. She says she is not romantically involved with anyone because she is not ready to have any relationship that is more than friends, including me, but her emotional state last night made me think differently.
I don't know, I am more confused now than ever.
Also, she says that she needs someone to talk to because her circle of friends is shrinking. She says she can't even talk to them about our issues anymore. That is why she is looking for new friends going through similar things.
I would love nothing more than to DB this. I love this woman with everything I have.
I understand what you are saying, but I have had control issues in the past. I feel like if I ask her to have no contact, she will perceive it as me trying to control her. It is one of the things that I am working on. I told her that it hurts that she is seeing someone. She says that he is jut a friend that she talks to and hangs out with sometimes because he is going through a similar situation. She says she is not romantically involved with anyone because she is not ready to have any relationship that is more than friends, including me, but her emotional state last night made me think differently.
I don't know, I am more confused now than ever.
Because you are leading with your feelings, instead of on a plan.
You stating that "I cannot live in a marriage where my wife is in contact with other men" is perfectly reasonable boundary. It is not controlling at all. You are saying "You may do whatever you please, if you don't want to be married to me, but this is what *I* need in a marriage. If you can't do that, I understand -- just let me know."
Actually, HER telling YOU that you must accept her continued contact with men is controlling.
What I see above is her jerking you around, emotionally, because she knows she can get to you and keep her as her "Plan B." It's hoop-jumping. I have no problems with a couple who have had previous marriage problems "hoop-jumping" if they are legitimate marital complaints that need to be addressed, and so long as BOTH partners are jumping at the real hoops. But her saying "Keep it up, honey -- just keep up your improvements and maybe I will come back and work on the marriage but in the meantime I just like these guys as friends and I'm going to keep on talking to them" . . . THAT is controlling!
Starsky
I get it. Last night was really emotional, on both of us. I had an IC appointment on Monday, and I left feeling GREAT. I was no longer texting her, I would respond to her on my time, I would answer her calls when I wanted to. I wa not saying any of the I love you's or anything.Granted, that was only 2 days, but it felt great.
Then last night happened, it felt like we were connected, but she is so resistant to it at the same time. I can see that she loves me, I can see it on her face, the way she was crying was uncontrollable. I know that she does in fact love me and that she has issues with me that she is working through. Heck, I have issues with me that I am working though. She even asked why I loved her, and then said that she has not been a good wife. I told her that she was a great wife and not to doubt that.
I think that she is just as confused as I am, I do not know what is going on in her head.
Today has been an emotional roller coaster for me. It felt good knowing that she does love me, but I feel terrible at the same time. I do not want to take advantage of the situation when she is vulnerable like that, and I did not.
Just a side note, he birthday is coming up, and I will be out to sea, do I have flowers sent or just let it pass as another day.
Is there light at the end of this tunnel. I feel like our marrige can be saved, I just don't think she sees it.
. . .and then said that she has not been a good wife. I told her that she was a great wife and not to doubt that.
Try not to over-praise her. A better answer would have been "We BOTH have done things that have been hurtful to each other. I think you'll find if you end all contact with these other men and come back and work on the marriage with me, I am ready to work on MY contributions to our marital problems, and I pray you will do the same."
Or something similar.
I know you're reeling, so best no decisions get made today. But you would be wise to tread VERY SLOWLY and CAREFULLY here, as your wife is clearly still wayward.
Starsky
Is there light at the end of this tunnel. I feel like our marrige can be saved, I just don't think she sees it.
And she WON'T, so long as she is on these dating sites and in contact with other men. Physiologically (brain endorphines -- PEAs), she is emotionally blocked to you.
Should I ask her via text or face to face about not seeing other people?
I would just pull back, work on yourself, and wait for the next in-person and in-context opportunity with her. I'm sure it'll present itself.
It's really your call. You haven't been a saint yourself in this department early in your marriage, and I suspect she's "punishing" you for that (her comment about "how did it feel when you saw my dating profile?"). Only you can decide if her dating while you are separated is a dealbreaker to you or not.
P.S. And if it IS (a dealbreaker, that is), you don't ASK her, you TELL her: "Look, I've been thinking about this, and I have a real problem with you continuing to talk to other guys while we are separated. I want to WORK ON OUR MARRIAGE -- including my own contributions to the problem -- but I can't do that while there's a third person in it. I get what you're saying about wanting to continue to see changes in me, and waiting for your feelings for me to return, but these are really two separate issues. One is a DECISION -- a commitment -- and the other is feelings. I'm willing to be patient for your feelings to return, and to believe the changes you've seen in me, but make no mistake -- I am NOT willing to live in an open marriage in the meantime."
You don't ASK a spouse "oh please be faithful to me." You TELL them, "I cannot live in an open marriage." Then it's up to them to decide what to do with that info -- you can't control them.
Starsky
I would just pull back, work on yourself, and wait for the next in-person and in-context opportunity with her. I'm sure it'll present itself.
I think the "in-context opportunity" is important. I have found that bringing issues up out of context have resulted in conversations that were not productive. The conversations usually ended up being about how I dwell-on and re-hash issues. I tend to not be as quick on my feet in conversations (I try to think things out for too long) and miss the opportunities to state what my boundaries are or my position on the topic.
So I patiently wait for the topic to "present itself" again.
I understand what you are saying, but I have had control issues in the past. I feel like if I ask her to have no contact, she will perceive it as me trying to control her.
This girl needs a husband who will be man enough to lead his family with some honor and loyalty. If you, the head of the home, cannot set an example of what a faithful and dignified spouse is suppose to looks like.....then not only does the marriage not stand a chance, but the entire family may crumble. Does that make you feel a little pressure? I hope it does!
Both of you have been down this road more than once. Have you learned anything yet? I would like to suggest you stop repeating bad decisions/choices. Both of you need to grow up, but especially you! You said she was a bad mother and you didn't want her getting custody.....and your answer was to sleep with her friend? What kind of parent does that make you?
You need to get your act together and start thinking about what kind of role model you are being for your kids, regardless of your wife's decisions.
You both need help, but since she's not here....
you are getting the information. She's in la-la land.
You need a plan that will keep you on the DB straight & narrow path, so to speak. Have you finished reading Divorce Remedy, yet? Get it done. Start making notes about what you (as the husband, daddy, and man) needs to do to improve. Set goals for yourself that is not about her. Learn what true personal boundaries are all about. Learn about real detaching (b/c you don't understand it).
If your W is ever going to respect you as a man.....she has to know it is not okay to date while she's married to you b/c you won't stay in an open M. That is an example of a boundary. It is not to control her but to protect yourself and the welfare of your family. How attractive do think it makes a man to say what you quoted above? She may still feel some physical attraction toward you b/c you are young and in good shape. When you lose your youth and health......then what's left? You have to give her more than physical attraction. Each of you will need to be attracted to what's inside of you. What defines you as a man. Your values, morals, character traits, and belief system will shape and mold your relationship. You two have gotten through difficult situations in the past, but if you don't have the right tools and learn how to nurture the MR, then things will not continue to hold together under these types of issues. Life is hard enough without adding extra into the pile.
The two of you can grow together and make good, loving memories down through the years....instead of trying to forget your shame. But you need to start remodeling that foundation now. You can determine to be the responsible man your family needs. Focus on your issues and your changes. Challenge yourself to be a great father and husband. You can turn yourself onto the man you respect......and others will too. She can't respect you if have don't even have respect for yourself.
This board can help you. They can give you support during the hard times and cheer on you when there has been progress.
Listen to Starsky and Sandi. They harped on me for mos to stand up and be a man. Set my boundaries and stick to them. Instead, I let my feelings dictate my actions.
When I finally had enough and told my W what they are recommending to you, she agreed to no OM contact and MC with me. By no means am I saying that's what will happen with you or that I'm out of the woods yet, but my actions felt 'good.' I was proud of my stance as leader of my family and role model to my kids, regardless of W's reaction.
Well, I did talk to her last night. I had to go sign some papers for her financial aid for school. I let the subject of dating be brought up. I told her that since we are on the road to self improvement that seeing other people would only complicate things. I asked her if she would break contact with other men. She said no. She said she is no longer dating and she is focusing on her school and finding herself. I told her that no matter what, I am not going to see other women because we are married. She said that she understands and my road to self improvement is different than hers. She said that her IC said that what she is doing is perfectly normal to do what she is doing and also recommended another website to meet people. Not a dating site, but one where you can meet with people that have similar interests in a group setting. She says she is not looking for. Relationship and she does not want one.
I stopped reading DR, it just feels hopeless. I will pick it up and continue today.
I asked her if she would break contact with other men. She said no.
Well at least you have clarity, and she's at least being honest with you.
The ball, however, is now squarely in your court. What are you going to do?
Starsky
Well, I do need to work on self improvement, not just to save my marriage, but to become a better person. I do not like who I have become over the years.
As far as what I am going to do, I can not have another person in my life as a partner while I am on my journey. Not my wife or any other woman. I am still married, even though I have stepped out in the last, and even though I have the green light from her, I am not going to violate my marriage regardless of what she does.
I need to be the role model for my children. They need some sort of normalcy. I have to be the strong one for them, and to not lose my own sanity.
Well, I do need to work on self improvement, not just to save my marriage, but to become a better person. I do not like who I have become over the years.
As far as what I am going to do, I can not have another person in my life as a partner while I am on my journey. Not my wife or any other woman. I am still married, even though I have stepped out in the last, and even though I have the green light from her, I am not going to violate my marriage regardless of what she does.
I need to be the role model for my children. They need some sort of normalcy. I have to be the strong one for them, and to not lose my own sanity.
I respect that stand. It's the right thing to do, for as long as you are able to do it.
How did you leave it with your wife? What does she think your position is on her continuing to be in contact with other men?
I told her I do not agree with it but it is her path to walk. She knows how I feel about us and about seeing other people. She can make her own choices. I am in a better place mentally and I am not going to let her actions dictate how I feel. It is time for me to be in control of me.
I am going to do what I have to do to DB this.
That's fine, so long as it doesn't come across to her as "I will do ANYTHING to be with you!"
I still don't think she has ANY credible threat of losing you over this, and I've never seen a sitch yet where someone will end their waywardness unless they do. If your stance comes across as "loving, steely resolve" that's great. If however it comes across as "desperation"/"neediness" -- not so great.
Starsky
She knows I want to be with her, there is no doubt about that. I know this forum makes her sound like a terrible person, but she really is not.
You're missing my point. Again.
I know this forum makes her sound like a terrible person, but she really is not.
Getrite, you're defending someone who is dating and visiting a web site to meet other people all while still married to you. This is not the W you married. Trust me, I'm not the first person on here who claimed 'You don't know my W. She would not do X.' Well guess what, she did X, Y and Z....
Time to man up.
I'm not missing your point, I hear it loud and clear. I thank you and I really do appreciate everything. It's been a rough 2 days. Between the emotional night with her on Wednesday and just talking last night. I feel better when I have no contact with her. We have to go to Ocean City to pick up our daughters. She wants me to go, because the girls are with my family. I told her that I have to work all weekend and more than likely will not be able to go. I don't want to go even though she really does want me to.
I know, I guess what I am saying, outside of what we are going through right now, she is a good woman. I am not condoning anything she is doing right now.
You sounded a bit Mickey-mouse, to me, about her contacting/dating other men. I know you can't demand what she does or doesn't do (and being separated, is the same as being single to some people), but don't gift wrap a hall pass in this marriage. Don't appear desperate or like you are scared of her and face it head on. It sounded as if you were giving her a license to fornicate, while assuring her that she will continue to have a faithful husband waiting patiently. That's every WAW's dream! So, she'll go happily along her way playing around.....and never be concerned that you may meet another girl to replace her.
Don't misunderstand me. I am not telling you to date and play around. I am saying not to tell her what you do or don't do. Let me tell you something about women. Even when they don't want to stay with the husband, they do not want another woman to take their place. So she
should be concerned if you are foot loose and fancy free.
I let the subject of dating be brought up. I told her that since we are on the road to self improvement that seeing other people would only complicate things. I asked her if she would break contact with other men. She said no.
From now on, when talking to her on this subject, don't point out to her that you are on a road to self improvements. It sounds too much like you are putting in a bid to win her back.
She isn't serious about reconciling b/c she knows she is going to continue meeting other guys. She enjoys it too much!
She said that her IC said that what she is doing is perfectly normal to do what she is doing and also recommended another website to meet people.
Mine told me it was normal for me to have sexual behavior by way of the Internet with an entire list of other men!! I was in an unhappy M, so I needed to do whatever made me feel good. Right?
Wrong! Even with me being in the messed up shape I was in at that time, I knew right from wrong.....and what I was doing was very wrong.
There are counselors out there who will tell the clients to do whatever makes them happy. She is not seeing an IC who is going to give her solution based therapy that will save the M.
But
you do not have to believe the sorry advice she's getting. It is not hopeless. This M
can be saved! You just can't give up b/c of what she says or even what she's doing right now.
Not a dating site, but one where you can meet with people that have similar interests in a group setting. She says she is not looking for. Relationship and she does not want one.
BS!
Have far have you read into Divorce Remedy?
About her IC, he was our MC. I trusted this guy. He did help us, but after we felt like things were good, we stopped going
Bad night. My daughter asked to take her to get ice cream. When I got to the house to pick her up, my wife was gone with her new friend. I immediately texted her my displeasure. Well, after ice cream, I dropped my daughter back off. I didn't text W again until I was going to bed, and I had a complete meltdown. I'm such a baby. She ended up asking me to come over to sleep. I did. I wish I didn't. She wanted me there because I was having a rough night and she also wanted me to hold her. I really wish I did not go. I did not really sleep at all.
I have been doing good at keeping my emotions to myself, but last night was a complete melt down and I am sure it's because I knew she was out with someone.
This "friend." Was this the "group setting"/MeetUp thing she talked about, or a date with another man?
Look, I GET IT. It HURTS. There were plenty of nights I locked myself in the bathroom at 2am, turned the exhaust fan on, buried my face in a towel and SOBBED. But you CANNOT turn to your wife to comfort you at this stage. It is REPULSIVE to her. I'm sorry to use such strong words, but I'm trying to help you, and I can assure you that she found the whole episode NEEDY and UNATTRACTIVE.
You have GOT to find a way to get your mojo, getrite. I would recommend two books for you, after you've read DB or DR. They are "Co-Dependent No More" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy."
Starsky
I get it. Thank you. I have dealt with them this past week, just totally fell apart last night. I regret it.
So, she convinced me to go to Ocean City with her yesterday. Basically, she said she wanted us to get away from all of the craziness that is going on here and also for us to go get our daughters together to do a family thing. I agreed, under one condition. I told her that there will be no texting OM for her and I will also not text any OW. She agreed.
We were not there for more than a few hours and she was sitting on the balcony. We were staying at the condo my dad rented. I walked out and I saw she was texting someone, and the smile and look on her face told me who it was. I asked her to not do it in front of me. She said she was not texting OM. I knew different, so I texted her that I am not stupid, and to at least show enough respect for me to not do it. Well, a few minutes later, she told me I was right and she was texting him. She said she was sorry, that she made a mistake. Well, I am a little upset at this point, not that she was texting him, but that she wanted to go and get away from that stuff as a family, but she was sitting there doing it. She was very apologetic, but the apology did not mean anything to me. We took the kids to dinner. I was to upset to eat, so I did not.
Later that night she wanted to go get dinner and drinks, so we did. We talked, she said some hurtful things. I took off my wedding ring, I have been wearing it up until this point, I gave it to her and told her, if she ever wanted to do this again, she can put it back on my finger. I paid the tab and we left.
There was no way around sharing a bed with her. We were laying there and she says that she loves me and she just needs time to figure it out. Today, nothing but loving remarks, she loves me and all that stuff. She even kissed me last night and today, I did not initiate.
I feel better, giving her my ring felt good. I do not know why, but I just feel better right now.
So, I stood up for myself today. I went to pick the kids up to go school supply shopping. While I was there, I told her that I wanted to talk to her. She has been having a summary of my cell phone usage emailed to her and I told her that was not right. I also decided to tell her that I am not a plan B. I told her that whatever agents going theougj right now is really not my concern and that if she didn't find what she was looking for, that I couldn't guarantee her inqould still be there waiting at the end. I told her that I was sick and tired of her making me feel like crap and I not having it anymore, that I am moving on. She immediately started with the do you think we can come back from this text messages. I didn't fall into the trap. I told her that I don't know and that I have a lot of work to so on myself. That's all, such a great feeling to get all of that off my chest.
Good for you!! Proud of you, bro.
Now, expect her to test you. And it may swing wildly from syrupy sweet (even attempts at affection and/or sex) to anger and spew.
Stand your ground.
Starsky
That has already started. Truth is, I'm not so sure that I want to work it out at this moment. I feel so good about me right now. This whole thing has made me see her character and I don't like it. I'm tired of being beat down.
Yea! You stood up to her, and you didn't kill over! If you don't recognize these feelings.....it's called self-respect.
Glad you are feeling better about yourself. It should help you with more confidence.
I had to. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. I am in such a better place since I did It. I don't know if it's because I took control, but I really have no desire to be with her today. Not sure if that will change over time, but I feel GREAT! I am going to meet her tonight so she can take my cell phone off of the bill and move it to its own separate bill. I insisted on this because she was getting all of my usage emailed to her. I'm not doing anything wrong, I just feel like my privacy during this separation was being violated.
I am doing great. I totally detached. Haven't felt better in a long time. Truth is, I don't think I want to save the marriage. How she has handled herself has made me see her character. This is not the first time. I want it to be the last, but I'm not so sure anymore. I have been hanging out with my daughters. I even went out one night and ran into a blast from the way way past.
I have been hanging out with my daughters. I even went out one night and ran into a blast from the way way past.
Ruh-rohh . . .
