New thread
link to first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2474180#Post2474180link to second thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2480410&page=1First I'd like to thank everyone for their insight into my situation and the valuable tips (especially the veterans). I feel like I have made progress with myself and would still be floundering without this. I am making mistakes at times, but fewer. I'm not sure anything is happening with my W at this point, but I feel more human. I completely welcome all comments (no matter how harsh they seem at times). I need that sometimes.
At times I can almost step back and look at my situation and relationship from afar. This changes my attitude. My feelings have gone from panic, despair, and fear to indifference and sometimes anger. I haven't felt anger about this before probably because I was too focused on trying to fix this. But I can really see how I am being treated. I don't know what to do with this anger and I do not want my decisions and actions to be driven by anger.
This concerns me because I feel like I'm giving up and I do not want to do that. The vows that I took mean something so much to me, even if they are not all reciprocated at this point. I in no way want to give up on them and her, but know I cannot hold on to all of that forever.
I am still tempted to ask her how she feels, what she wants? what she sees as our future? or are we done? I know I cannot have these conversations right now, or any time soon (advice from Sandi,MrBond,LovetheHub and others).
I also go through times that I want to show her how much love I still have for her and how good things could be (I think this is a bad idea too). So I wait for her to come to me - if it will ever happen.
Thanks all!!
[i]from dawgy:
I would definitely go to the cottage bro if she says OM is NOT going to be there . Its fine if she just wants to look good in front of her boss . She is proud of her family obviously , which includes you .This a positive thing the way I see it . You are doing a good job my friend . I know exactly where you are and how you are feeling about your sitch . Sometimes it helps me to look at my sitch and just laugh at it and say stop being so serious dude . We never really know whats around the corner for us . I feel your pain Turn but it is an exercise for you and I and countless others on learning to not need to control things or people . Because the feeling of needing to be in control is extremely hurtful when you dont have control. Let it go and relax , what will be will be no matter what you do or say . I dont know if this helps but It works for me quite a bit . I can tell you are a person who likes to have control and so am I and its one of the reasons we are hurting so bad . Stop trying to control and GAL > It really does help[/i]
I do feel at times that I need to stop taking things so seriously. Even though things are bad, I do not own anyone. she is not my property, and have to have my own life too.
I feel like the weekend could be a positive thing though.
Thanks
Hey Turn I can tell you are hurting abit more than usual because your saying that you ve hit the anger stage . I get that , i hit me about a week ago but believe me its just another stage of dealling with your sitch . im betting in a few days you will be back too focusing on DB again . It happens , these different emotions will come and go dude . Dont despair , the love you have for her will prevail , remember sandis list " dont give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel " You are a fighter or you wouldnt be here . Ive accepted the fact that i will be sad , i will feel hopeless , i will be angry but those feelings will change like the wind . PMA is very important > your W needs to see this in you We can do this .
U-Turn ... its a cycle on a rollercoaster that none of us bought a ticket nor asked to be on. Being angry is completely normal and its actually healthy. I too get to points where I feel utter despair ... then hope, anger, happiness and then revisit one or all these feelings again.
Only you can control what you want to do .... realize that things could be worse, without the advice and support here, the lessons DB has taught ... can you imagine what a wreck we would all find ourselves becoming? .... PMA man ... PMA ... head up and fake it .. we all have bad days.
Good advice Caliguy . Fake it till you make it . Ive heard that a lot . A friend of mine told me this one " he who cares the least has the most power " that works well for me because if I want to gain power then I have to make myself care less which feels good .
Good advice Caliguy . Fake it till you make it . Ive heard that a lot . A friend of mine told me this one " he who cares the least has the most power " that works well for me because if I want to gain power then I have to make myself care less which feels good .
Dawgy ... its brutal at times, but it does work, it actually makes them stop and focus on you just a little bit, making them wonder what is going on.... in a way giving you some of that power back and becoming mysterious and someone they now do not just disregard.
U-Turn...
Don't forget, this is a marathon, not a sprint. I know - you feel like you've been on this roller coaster long enough. I GET IT. I've been on it since November. It stinks. But then, MLC takes YEARS. Affairs typically take a long time to burn out, too.
What helps me sometimes when I'm feeling particularly down is to say, "I've made it this far. Why give up now?" Honestly - the detaching has helped tons, too. I think I don't look like a sure thing anymore. Who knows. Maybe I'm not. But for now I'm hanging in there and holding on to the marriage.
How about if you write her a letter about how you feel and then you burn the letter? That might be kind of cathartic?
Mlp thanks for that . I gonna write that letter then burn it > U-Turn , i think you should too . Good advice for any of us Dawgy
Glad you like the idea! Seemed like a good one to me, too.
It's good to see you guys still around. I'm pretty busy these days, but trying to hang in there. Situation is basically unchanged, as far as I can tell. He told me he's going to be traveling a lot for work this fall, so yay.
Or not.
But whatever.
Still working on me.
Thanks for all of the support today - I needed it.
Great idea to write the letter and burn it. Maybe I'll try that one.
I find myself faking it a lot these days.
I hope I have the patience to get through this marathon.
I've been forcing the PMA - I almost think that I am annoying most people around me (maybe too much PMA)
Thanks again - and hang in there!
I'm not keeping up with the acronyms...What is PMA?
Positive mental attitude. It's what I've got for me right now.
Seems to work sometimes.
Gotcha!
Yes...the PMA, also known as The Secret, etc. etc. etc.
Tough to do. Maybe easier when showing gratitude. Maybe easier still when detaching.
I know that things were not good when they were on autopilot, but for those of us who THOUGHT things were good, they sure were easier! LOL!
Im in a bad way today . I just have a feeling . Never slept well , bad dreams overall crappy night . I made the mistake of asking her where abouts last night . She wouldnt tell me . So i guess that means with OM . The bad feeling I have today is she s not working today or tomorrow . And it got me thinking shes planning on moving out while im at work . Could be heavy mind reading but the kids are gonna be away all day too .I need some words of support today big time . Heavy anxiety this morning .She always makes my tea in the morning before work and has continued to do so all through this turmoil but no tea this morning she got up with the alarm and laid down on the sofa and went to sleep . I believe the OM left his wife and got a place in town so im worried shes planning a move in with him > That would be devastating
Dawgy
sorry for posting on your thread U -Turn , im so messed up this morning Dawgy
Dawgy,
Keep your head up man. I am not too good at giving advice - but have received much. Don't try to read her mind or convince yourself that something is going to happen - you will drive yourself crazy. It is painful, but you cannot control her, and shouldn't try.
Work on yourself - this maybe what's best. It may give you more opportunity to detach and for her to figure things out.
Yes MLP.
It would have been great to have known at what I know now. Turn off the autopilot and live. Now that seems so far away.
I call a re-do (mulligan)
Well, a little movement, but I will try not to read too much into it.
This morning W said she was still trying to figure herself out and she is very angry and upset with herself. As far as mind reading goes and with overhearing a conversation she was having with a friend of hers (unintentional snooping I guess), I believe she may be having issues with being the OMs OW - if that makes sense. He doesn't want to leave his family and that just leaves W being his mistress - and I think she is having troubles with that (I hoped she would eventually feel that way).
I just listened to her, played it cool, acknowledged that I heard her. I'm not sure I provided much validation. I thought about telling her that it must be very difficult for her, but I thought that may sound judgmental or insincere. I don't know. She did give me a long hug before I left for work. I'm still a little confused as to how to react that. I hugged her back.
She hasn't reached out to me or even talked to me in a while (except for logistics and her work - not).
I will leave this sit now and see how she continues or not. The ball is still in her court.
I do look at my timeline compared to others (8 months of trouble, 6 months since I discovered A) I know it could be a very long time yet - if ever.
Respect to the long haulers! I will keep it up too.
I hear ya on the long haul thing .. and the patience required of us all... I think if we could be given a gift and told .. "ok you have till Jan 5th till this is over we all could just circle the calendar and ride it out. But we dont know ... like you said "long time .. if ever" But all we can do is hold on to the little positives and hope.
Hang in there... at the least she is starting to question things ... and the OM is losing his sparkle ... this is a good thing!
Hey u -turn buddy its all good if shes questioning things . You are doing alright . Shes giving you hugs . My W doesnt even want to touch me . The worst of it is , i think she wants to but shes so messed up shes trying to hate me to justify all this . Its really terrible , i can forgive her but can she forgive herself . So Im sure your wife is the same as mine . If they could forgive them selves for what they ve done and they know we are forgiving them , then i believe , truly believe that they would come back to us whole . Put your self in her shoes and look at the situation shes in . I bet you would feel alot of shame and guilt especially when your spouse is willing to forgive and is still showing that much love . So that being said , how would you deal with the guilt and shame if it was you ???? Give me an answer on this , im interested in what you think . Dawgy
Hey Dawgy - I hope you're doing better.
Sometimes I am dubious of the rare hugs and acting nice. I second guess it. Is she doing it because she wants to show me something or just to keep me hanging on? Just giving me enough to keep me close. That is where the detachment is working for me. I find that right now I cannot let it effect me (I try not to let it anyway).
Her questioning this is a movement and I totally agree with the fact that she has to work toward forgiving herself - she has actually said that before and it will be hard. This may be what will hold her back and there's nothing I can do about it. Sometimes you just wish you could carry them through this.
I read from Lovethehub on somebody's thread that she in fact was not overridden in guilt at the time. I don't know if my W is. So it makes me wonder the same. I would think that the guilt would eat me alive, but with the fog they must not be thinking clearly at all. I couldn't even imagine doing this to someone (though that sounds very judgmental).
No not judgemental my friend . What your wife has done in my opinion amounts to nothing more than an emotional affair that got out of control . Then the guilt and shame became sooo great after being found out there has to be an excuse for her behavior , not just to you but to herself mostly . Thats where the continuation of seeing OM and the influence from him comes into play . Im sure that if she could turn the clock back to the point where this started then she would and this would never have happened . That being said I believe the fog takes over after a shot time during the PA gets rolling and her life seems ok . Shes got a fling going , a good home and dedicated husband , shes livin the dream , all is good . This is where the Fog is the thickest . Then H finds out and creates mass panic and confusion . This is where we are now . I believe your wife and mine are good people doing a bad thing based on the past history of my W anyway .
She told me she was sorry and wished she hadnt got us into this mess. Although it took her awhile to own up to it .Im sure she tries everyday to lay the blame on me driving her to this but I know and she knows deep down its just an excuse to escape the heavy guilt and shame of whats shes done to her family . In time whether we are still together or not she will come to realize this . They all do eventually . It really does help to put yourself in her shoes and try to figure out what she may want from you to help deal with this . And being kind loving and patient cant be wrong .I know if it was me doing this I wouldnt want a crazy crying demanding wife harping on me .
Thanks Doggy - I still don't know how the EA will ever end - I should demand it (joke). Months ago she was trying to validate what I saw as an EA and she saw as a healthy relationship "work spouse" she even sent me articles about this type of relationship. She took that way too far since that (and she acknowledged that too).
So right now she is taken back and upset by the lack of information of what I am doing. I took off a half day from work on Monday and didn't tell her about it. She found out from the kids. I told her that I had things to take care of. (true - business related). I didn't explain myself to her though. I was not trying to hide it - I had no reason to - I was just trying a 180 of not keeping her updated
It upset her and she said "we're through". What a strong reaction considering all of the lies she tells me and her whereabouts that I don't know of or ask about. I am still not so good at knowing how to respond to such things, so I just kept it matter of fact. She really has double standards right now - she wants it all but the detaching and small amount GAL'ing that I am doing is pushing her buttons a little - I suppose that is a good thing.
I know not to get into a long conversation about this or get upset by this. (I don't want to be accused of being a jr. high school drama queen again
- thanks sandi!)
She did say that I have no idea what she is going through or how she is handling it. I acknowledged that. I said later "I am not even going to pretend that I know how you feel. I am sure it is very hard on you". She said "I appreciate that". I guess that is the validation she was looking for - right?
She is doing a lot of snooping on me now (she has been doing this for a while though - I have never changed my passwords or anything - I have always been an open book for her)(I don't think I want to look deceptive). She was going through my phone, my computer. I know this because she is not as good at covering her snooping tracks as I was. I don't really care if she snoops though - maybe it is a good thing. To me it still shows that somewhere in there she cares.
She may have seen this forum open - which concerns me a little. (I don't want her to think that I am just trying to do what it takes to get her back). I don't want her to know that I am spilling my guts here either. I also never have brought up the fact that I know she looks at my phone. Maybe she wants me to know that she's snooping for some reason (mind reading).
I am taking S20 back to college today. It is a good thing for him, probably a good thing for everyone right now. I don't know what the dynamics at home will be now. All through this - since March, she has put timelines on making decisions. The latest one being "when the kids are all back in school". This one will probably pass too and onto the next one "I can't possibly make any changes until the leaves start falling off the trees"
So I will see - probably back to limbo.
After taking S20 back to school, we found out that he was not being honest with us either. He had other plans and left the state for the weekend after I dropped him off and helped him move in. Not sure what to think of this yet - hiding plans seems to be the normal around here. W & I had a talk about him this morning and what we need to do. It's good that we can still talk about important things as parents.
Other than that, it's like the conversation the other night never happened. All the same, typical weekend ignore everything. No movement again.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in the wrong place by being here(DB forum). I feel like others situations are so much worse than my own. But I am here to learn and improve and hopefully someday have a normal m again.
W doesn't want a divorce
I don't want a divorce
W is having a EA/PA that she claims she is wrestling to stop
she has also told me that the PA "isn't there" (I know this is not true)
I want that it to end (duh)and am wrestling with waiting it out
She doesn't wear her wedding ring, I do (she won't until she's committed)
I don't know what she wants!
We live in the same house, sleep in the same bed. We are room mates that raising the kids.
I know that I have not been perfect and neither has she. I know the A is a result of this, but it is a decision that she is making. I don't know what she wants from me without pressuring her for an answer.
I continue to work on myself.
I have thought much about what single life would be for me and I am ok with it. I can see it. I have thought out a day, a week, month and year. I can logistically do it - emotionally I'm not sure.
I do appreciate the support here and it really does help me, but I don't really know how long I can keep this up. I still feel the need to push back and try to get an answer or commitment from her. Is it too early for that (not letting the affair run it's course)? I know she is having some tension with the OM too. Though that seems to come and go all the time.
I'm really confused right now.
It upset her and she said "we're through".
I heard those exact words when I locked my computer and changed my password and told her no R talk until the A is over.
A week later she's asking me to lie in bed with her and hold her to see if it feels right.
Don't believe a word of what she says. She will spew. She's conflicted and will say crazy things.
Continue on your course U-Turn. I see things in your sitch that are micro-improvements and that is a good thing. Yes it will take more time than you want.
You have to let the A run its course. It looks like it's getting to a turning point all by itself. Keep up the PMA. Continue with your improvements. She will start seeing you as the better option at some point. Hopefully soon.
Just don't pursue. Don't push back. Don't try to get answers from her. It's extremely hard to do but it's the only way. Really. Detach. Be happy. No R talk. And be a bit mysterious. Don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Don't leave you computer open to this forum for her to see. This is for your eyes only. She will see it as manipulative. We all know it's not. You're just trying to save your M which is a noble goal. But let your nobility be your private pride. She's got her own row to hoe.
I see the micro improvements - then they disappear. My hopes that they are still there and just hidden.
Thanks Peter - It's funny how lifting a couple words can be to get me back on track.
I am doing a bit of mind reading this morning - though I'm trying not to.
W was challenged on FB to list 3 things she is thankful for each day for 7 days. Pretty normal stuff.
1. kids....
2. a friend of hers....
3. second chances!
(this is the one that I am trying not to read into too much - was it directed at me? was it directed at her "new life"?)
these two words kept me awake last night - why the heck can't I detach from her and things like that.
She then challenged me to the same (she usually doesn't include me in anything like this).
Well - I wrote something (probably my 10th FB post in my life)
kept it neutral (family, peaceful sunday mornings, people that have challenged be to be more)- but I have a feeling she is trying to read my mind a little too. (the dreaded double mind reading)
She is acting nice today - asked if I wanted to go to the beach for a while today. Again - I don't think I am detaching.
Question for the masses:
Is it the opinion that I should act like I believe what she said even if I don't (about the A) - is this part of validation? Ignore, give it time, wait, have patience?
Thanks
Hi U-turn, I am sorry that your brain is working over-time this morning. A couple of thoughts:
- are you friends of your W on FB? If you are, I would recommend unfriending her so that you do not have to see (and overthink) what she is writing about. I am pretty sure that she is not communicating with you when she posts on FB that she is thankful for 2nd chances;
- Your post on FB seems like pursuing to me. Saying that you are grateful for people who challenge you to be more, is like waving a flag to get the attention of your W saying "look at me, look at me. I'm changing." The change only works as a positive to your spouse if you do it without drawing attention to yourself. You know, pursuing only causes the WAS to back off. Detach, a powerful word but difficult to practice. Good luck.
I
do appreciate the support here and it really does help me, but I don't really know how long I can keep this up. I still feel the need to push back and try to get an answer or commitment from her. Is it too early for that (not letting the affair run it's course)? I know she is having some tension with the OM too. Though that seems to come and go all the time.
Let me put it this way. Ending, or forcing an end to her A, does not guarantee she will want to stay in a M with you. There have been more stories to support that fact, than those where ending the A was forced and the WAS fell back into the arms of the LBS.
Is it the opinion that I should act like I believe what she said even if I don't (about the A) - is this part of validation? Ignore, give it time, wait, have patience?
No, b/c that makes you look like a fool to her. IMO, it is not validation. One of the consequences of having an A is breaking the trust of the one who has been betrayed. If the betrayed LBH "validated" his cheating WAW by showing he believes any BS she dishes out.......he not only loses any chance of her respecting him again, but it goes farther b/c she will think he's a dope! He opens himself to being treated as a doormat at every turn.
In summary, you are to act as if you are
detached, even if you aren't .
Sandi-Thanks
I do realize that even if the affair ends she may not want to return to the M. That will have to be seen. But I don't want to screw anything up or make matters worse.
....
The last conversation we had about the affair, which was several weeks ago, she indicated that there is no affair (because he won't leave his family) - I did not call her out at that time that it was a lie. She avoids lying to me by being very vague with her statements or not telling me anything.
So without bringing it up again or start another conversation about it, she is technically not lying (in her mind). So all of my mistakes made pre-db are still biting me and the lost respect is still there.
It's funny that she will talk to our kids about lying (it's the lying by omission that we both teach our kids about)and respect, but doesn't follow her own lessons.
She must realize that this is happening - right?
"It's funny that she will talk to our kids about lying (it's the lying by omission that we both teach our kids about)and respect, but doesn't follow her own lessons. "
Because in her mind she's not lying. She's justified everything that she has done. You need to stop thinking that she is thinking a certain way. That's more of your control.
MrBond - thank you very much for pointing that out, actually.
My H also has a hard time understanding the deceit that is felt by his behavior.
Out of curiosity, in your experience, do they ever come to grips that the behavior actually WAS deceitful? I understand one can't control the affair in any way, and this is why one must detach and get a life....but tell me more about the turning point of the WAS, if there is one.
"Out of curiosity, in your experience, do they ever come to grips that the behavior actually WAS deceitful?"
It depends on the individual. Some continue to think that they were "meant" to be with the AP and if it didn't work out, they move on to the next one. They keep moving from person to person never thinking that MAYBE the reason why they are never happy with another person is because THEY aren't happy inside.
They don't see having an A as being "wrong" or lying. They feel that the "lie" is the way they have been living in a relationship that doesn't make them happy.
Of course, they don't actually consider trying to work on things because it's everyone else's fault and not theirs.
"I understand one can't control the affair in any way, and this is why one must detach and get a life....but tell me more about the turning point of the WAS, if there is one."
There are many WAS's who have turned around. Usually it's those who have hit rock bottom and see their LBS thriving while their life is messed up. But sadly, there are those WAS's who never go into self reflection and continue their destructive ways. They feel that there pain is so bad that they will do anything to get out of it.
This is the main reason why the WAS will often "change" into the monster and turn on the LBS. My own W who was the kindest person I had ever known, threatened to call the cops on me when I told her that I didn't want to move my daughter out of bed in our home (W was living away at the time just 10 minutes away) because she was really sick. I just looked at her, told her to go ahead and I would be more than happy to talk to the officers when they arrived. She backed down and became extremely humble and helpful after that.
You just can't let the crazy antics of the WAS make you crazy. The more grounded you are, the stronger your position.
Here is a little saying that someone posted a long time ago but I always kept it with me. It has religious undertones to it, but the idea is basically that you need to be the sane one while your WAS is acting insane.
Here is the quote:
Be the Lighthouse.
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
The good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
The competition we believe that exists with the OP is a shallow, empty reflection of God's light in this world....
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush.
Their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again and again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong....they do not like what they are doing....
Their actions towards you, the children, the OP and themselves keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions with real dept and truth.
All they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life....yet the filling is way to fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down, regardless of whom is next to them....
They are the living cliche of...no matter where you go to hide, there YOU are.
He or she is lost to themselves.
And you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home. Even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that.
You become the lighthouse. You fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary.
Just visualize yourself as a lighthouse.
You offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get. You invite them towards it, let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way.
They are untrustable right now, but you know that. So they can't hurt you right now. They will spend great energy to convince others differently, but you know better.
You show them the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions. Set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives, without love busting.
Offer alternatives that let them see the children, but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them. You fill the childrens lives with stability. They deserve it and need it more than anything else.
Do not discuss or power struggle with them on irrational movements. Seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly.
Your spouse is very lonely and sad right now, but that is OK. No one can stay very long in that chaos..it is wearisome to the soul..
And remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos and eventually they will see that you are the only one who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most.
Be the lighthouse...
Thanks MrBond for that.
I feel like sometimes I am doing alright when I read things like that - at times I actually feel that way (lighthouse).
You offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get. You invite them towards it, let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way.
I feel like this is the best that I can do right now. It makes no sense to my kids or anyone that has knowledge of our situation, but it's the best I can do.
I know not to actually verbally invite them to the light (or back into our lives - that has backfired in the past). I think she felt it was manipulative and judgmental. I try to be subtle.
Thanks again - This is a keeper to read on my low times
even with the level of detaching that I am doing, I can look at things a little differently. It's almost like I can look at our current life as an outsider - like I'm watching a bad tv show.
This morning she said that she still loves me - I tried to just validate her - we haven't said that to each other in a long time.
I told her that "I still feel love for you too" - probably shouldn't have said it. Probably shouldn't believe it from her. She said she really does. (like she was forcing the point). I said "I know you do".
At that moment I didn't feel detached, so I said good bye for the day and left for work. Not much to report there, but it was a change in her. I try not to keep looking for signs, but that is difficult.
I will be spending the entire day with her on saturday to travel to a funeral for my aunt. (8 hours of driving)
What a great post Mr Bond
Turn , she said she still loves you ? That is very good . Things are starting to add up , the FB post about getting a second chance , saying she loves you . Keep playing it cool. Im not sure about your response to her love you statement but i think you handled it right . She was likely looking for you to say I love you too but saying it the way you did i think will make her want more . good stuff bro
I would agree - but I am still having a hard time believing her - even about that. I still have a feeling she is just giving me enough to keep me hanging on.
I think it's good - but I am cautious. I've been warned here by the best not to wear my heart on my sleeve. I am trying not to do that.
I know she is still torn between me and OM. Just because she told me that doesn't mean she didn't tell him that too.
I know she is still torn between me and OM. Just because she told me that doesn't mean she didn't tell him that too.
But I guess it doesn't matter if I believe her or not and I cannot say what her feelings are. She has said before that she never believed that she could be in love with two people.
Went out to dinner with S16 tonight and had a good talk about some things that are going on at home. He is aware of much more than I thought. I don't think the A, but he knows that his mom is not being herself anymore (very angry, not around much, distracted when she is home). He is mad that the kids and I am being blamed for this by her and knows that it is not any of our fault (he actually told me that he thinks that she is just using it as an easy excuse to cover for her behavior).
He has a great attitude about it and likes the good days and lets the bad days "roll off of him" as he put it. He does get angry about it sometimes though. I should learn from him. I made sure he knew that he can always come to me for anything. But I also let him know that he shouldn't pick sides either. I let him know that I was doing better that when I was wrecked - and he knew this too.
I LOVE that you two had this talk. What a great bond you two have!
Just read through this thread for the first time. u-turn, you need a new thread title. You are not "barely holding on" You grow in strength and fortitude daily.
Good luck.
Thanks ss:
I feel that I have a great bond with my kids - I wish things were better for them. They have always taught me as much as I have taught them.
I haven't approached the subject too much w/ D14 she doesn't want to talk about it and W takes her shopping so "all is good". D14 just thinks I beat myself up too much. If the kids knew what was actually going on, they would be devastated - they too thought we had a "perfect" family compared to many of their friends. So with my new found PMA I hope to help the kids get through this more.
Thanks Shakspr:
I feel much better and think I am doing better than when I started here - I probably shouldn't sound so hopeless - I do have hope. (trying to be the lighthouse).
I really appreciate your kind words.
Hey Turn I totally get the part that if the kids knew they would be devastated . Ive kept it together primarily for them . I dont want them to know what their mother is doing . Not in the least , but they will find out eventually if she doesnt smarten up . They are not stupid , they sense tension and just think mim and dad work too much and its just a phase . Thats one of the things that upset me soooo much is her disregard for her childrens well being . If the kids wernt in the picture , I would have told her to pack up months ago . But I cant bear the thought of hurting them . I would let her abuse me indefintely just to protect them from the shame and misery . At least till they are 18 or 19
Uturn -
I agree with Shakespr...You sound great. I'm glad you're being such a super stanchion for your kids.
Thanks all
I may be doing alright with the kids. With W is another story.
We may have hit another obstacle this morning and some backsliding.
We had a conversation this morning: more like I talked she listened then she talked and I listened (not really responding to each other though).
Short synopsis:
I said:
-I apologize for my part in our "falling apart"
-I know that I cannot control you or tell you what to do, but I do not know how I am going to be able to heal while you work there with OM.
-you have your choices to make, but so do I and I do have boundaries.
She said:
-she has to figure out what it is going to take for her to be a better mother again
-she knows that she "ruined our marriage, ruined our family, and ruined my self esteem"
-she has a choice to make work or family - she cannot have both because of OM. but she cannot quit her job and jeopardize her future and that she will always work with OM in that case. She needs to keep the job to take care of the kids.
-that I am the "kindest and most patient man she has ever known"
Well in unison - I said - “then what do you want from me?”
and she said “so why can’t I choose you?”
That probably was not productive…
D14 walked in and conversation was over.
I really don’t know where where we can go from here right now.
U-turn
Have had almost exact same conversation with my H.
Stop having R talks.
Detach.
It's all script.
u-turn & dawgy. I hear you re: the kids.
They really help me keep a PMA. I will be equally devasted when they find out.
I'm just wondering what to tell them. WAW is surely going to try to dress it up as joint decision which I won't be happy with but I don't want to diss her to them either as she is a good mother ... mostly.
I'm sure waw will want it to seem like an equal decision.
I have told myself that I won't lie to the kids about anything. I will tell them that it is not what I wanted but we wanted different things. Her interests have changed and her interests no longer include me. She still loves you......
I try to talk to them about what they can see or have seen. At this point I do not try to add any information that would change their feelings for either of us. I do try to defend anything that is untrue that they have heard. Again without too much detail.
MLP.
I know it is not time for relationship talks.
I don't know if it was productive but I know so little about her any more and this was at least some information.
I keep telling myself to detach...probably said it 100 times in my head yesterday. It's hard to do this with all of us in the house.
I keep thinking that I have to keep pushing a little or things won't change. She has no reason to change. She doesnt want to break up the family but won't change anything to stop it. It is all up to me to know how long I can stand this and it seems sometimes she will out last me.
Sorry to keep adding to this - I am dwelling a little on this.
I think I need to push - I will be the one to have to make a decision to separate and move out. I will be the one to have to make a decision to end the M because all of this works for her right now.
maybe...
She is waiting for me to be the bad guy
She wants me to turn into the WAH to solve everything she can then take the high road and doesn't have to make any decisions at all.
That may be true. Do you want to give that to her?
Detachment is hard in the house. I get it. I really do.
I can't really give you any advice, since you and I are essentially in the same situation. I'm sorry that you're here. It stinks.
I do not want to give that to her - and don't want it at all, but I'm likely to have a breaking point.
It's funny though - we used to be able to just talk about tough topics. I could just ask her the tough questions and she could answer them and she could do the same to me. We could really figure it all out. All of that is gone now.
Now it's eggshells, fake happiness, and avoidance.
Are you trying to force some movement because you're not satisfied where things are right now? I totally understand that.
But you're trying to force her to react to something...whether its with a relationship talk or with you moving out. She's on her journey and it's not about you. That particular crazy has to play itself out. It's a house of cards, too. You know it. At some point it's going to come tumbling down.
Now - I'm not saying you SHOULDN'T separate from her. I think about it all the time. I wonder if this wouldn't hurt so much if I wasn't living with H. I don't know. I know it hurts living with him. I know there is a serious disconnect between what he thinks about the situation and what I think about it. He doesn't understand why it's hurting me, he doesn't understand why he can't be friends with her, he's totally befuddled that I think this is a problem, which is, of course, mind-boggling to me.
In the meantime, as time keeps ticking away, I see stressors happening. He said to me last week that the relationship "isn't good for work." I have no idea what that means, and I didn't ask him to elaborate on it. I don't know if people have started gossiping about it, or making accusations, or if it's simply distracting them from doing their jobs. Dunno. Now our D knows, and this is very troubling to H. The wind is starting to blow The question is, is our marriage also a house of cards? It might be. I'm not sure.
What I do know is that it's taken me a LONG time to start working on myself. I need to work on myself OUTSIDE of my marriage. While I know there are things that I can do that will make me a wife who can fill some needs that H found outside of our marriage, I need to do things that are good for ME. Not for H. Good for me. Things that will make ME a better person whether or not our relationship ultimately sustains.
Stop thinking about how things used to be. They're not like that now.
If the separation feels like it would be right for YOU, then yes...do it. If you're doing it for a reaction from her, then it's not the right thing to do.
Maybe it is pushing just to push.
It seems that all of the mistakes that I made early, after finding out about the A, are biting me back right now.
The instant forgiveness. The acting like I can instantly move on. The fake trust.
I think all of those things have caused this stagnant situation.
Maybe pushing would only be for a reaction.
I am all over the place. I will continue detaching at home and use my time - take it day by day.
Thanks MLP
I am also not seeing her A as a house of cards right now either. I hope it is - though our house may be just as shaky.
Going on about this-
something in me makes me want to undo all of these mistakes I made. To start from the beginning. to take back all of the things that I said. I feel like I gave her no accountability for her decisions and now she is holding me to it. I have changed. My feelings have changed. How I look at myself has changed. I made these decisions based on fear and I am not afraid any more.
How do I undo this?
I still have my emotions to contend with. My emotions still cause me to make bad decisions. I have definitely been driven by that this weekend and detachment is not happening easily. I am faking that still.
We spent a lot of time together and it could have been perfectly normal if I let it. At times it was almost date-like. I even made the mistake of planting a big kiss on her at the park the other night while we walked and waited for D14 (who was at a concert).
Sometimes I feel like if I didn't actually know about the A all would seem perfectly normal.
She is currently on an upswing with an emotional connection with the kids again. It is good to see that. Though all I see right now is that she wants to hold the family together (where I am just a small factor in that - she just needs to keep me from leaving - and no more than that).
I am trying not to show how her current actions are affecting me. She still seems to throw intentional digs at me (maybe it's just me seeing it that way).
u-turn: that feeling of wanting to go back in time to undo things is WAY too familiar. I have learned to quash it - usually with a whack upside my own head. There are two people in your dance. Your retrospection is only good for visualizing a better way to do it (whatever IT is) when and if there is a next time.
A thought. The past is real. Just because you failed to make her accountable then doesn't matter. In fact, not overreacting is probably a better approach, all things considered. If her heart changes, and piecing happens (such a bland word for such a glorious thing), that will be the time for accountability. Only then will you be forging a new relationship, because if you get to the other side of this, things will never be the same. Better or worse, but not the same.
Read some of the success stories. Most of them were as hopeless as we newcomers at some point in the DB journey.
I don't feel that I have been clear about my boundaries and this is also biting me.
I am going to tell her - either a short letter or verbal:
Mrs. U-turn - I know that I have told you that I can forgive you, trust you again, and move on from this, but I now know that this is going to be a process. I do care about myself and have boundaries.
-I can not live in an open marriage.
-The relationship that you have with OM does not make me feel safe in maintaining our relationship.
-Keeping even a friendship with OM puts too much doubt in my future with you.
I think she will deny that there is still a relationship with OM at that point. I can tell her about my suspicions and things that I have noticed from the past months.
Just playing this out in my head - and here first. I know this is probably not being patient, but shouldn't these boundaries be stated - or is it pushing too hard?
Thoughts?
The giving space and time thing seemed to have backfired on me . It just gave her more time and opportunity for her to see him .I know that I must first let it expand before it will shrink but its expanding much more than i believed it would . She got a lawyer and says shes leaving to be with OM . I dont know what to do . My only card is she doesnt want the kids to know shes been cheating and shes moving in with OM . So im second guessing some of my DBing strategies . It looks like now i should have exposed way back 6 months ago then maybe this would be over , in giving time and space didnt work
dawgy-everyone's advice to me has been - this is her journey and only she can find her way. You cannot stop her if it is what she wants. Let her figure it out.
I understand thinking about the mistakes that were made early on and what you could have done differently. I have been wrestling with that too.
You can only work on yourself and be better for her if or when she comes back. It is so hard to follow that advice though - I get it.
Thx U -Turn . I need all the support i can get . This is brutal on the mind ans soul . I need to remember to work on myself and be there for my boys .
U-turn, I received some great guidance from vets on a similar letter I wrote to my W. You might want to check it out.
I'm all for sending the letter, just make sure you're fully prepared to backup your stance should she respond that she doesn't want to end OM contact. It took me quite a while to reach the point of saying it not just to get a desired response.
Thanks Tarheel - this is so helpful.
I do have to get my act together before I pull the trigger and really evaluate this. Although everything these days is life changing, this would really be life changing. I am close though.
There was some movement this morning (hers) - a lot of emotion (hers), and I have to step back and see what that is about - while still trying to detach (if that makes any sense). She definitely is in some kind of turmoil over her life and decisions right now. I don't know if her actions are going to be toward or away right now. She was a great mother to our kids yesterday and maybe that had an affect on her.
Well - not the emotion that I was hoping it was I guess. More like - the I'm too tired to make this work and keep trying (with me).
It seems like she is still in contact with OM. I am really trying to re-focus on DBing, but also trying to gain my integrity back.
I am going to give my ring back to her today. She hasn't worn hers in a couple months. I know this is small to some people, but it is huge to me. I will give it to her and tell her that I will wear it again when it is right and means something. She basically told me the same when I saw that she wasn't wearing hers and I asked her about it. I respected this action from her.
It will be the first sign from me outside of the house that there are problems.
Hey Turn buddy . Im right there with ya on the ring movement > I wish i had the guts that you have . My wife stopped wearing hers and I asked where it was and she said she took it off , ther was no point in wearing it the way things were . I pleaded with her to put it back on . That didnt work . I left mine on for the next two months then one day i decided to take it off and hang it on a neck lace with hers . why ? I dont know .
My point here is that the ring symbolises the vows that we took . She broke the vows so she removed the ring , but we didnt break the vows , should we remove ours ? I removed mine because i thought that if she seen that i was still wearing it she would think that she still has me wrapped around her finger even while she behaves the way she has .
I dont know , Im a mess again today . lololol Dawgy
I know I've been all over the place with my posts for the last week. I am pretty messy as well. I'm not sure if giving the ring back to her will seem like I'm trying to be petty or manipulative. I don't want to give up and I have kept my vows, but I don't "feel" married any more either. But that is getting to a point of not keeping my vows (for better or worse).
I know it's a marathon, I just never trained for this and I bought crappy shoes that are giving me blisters.
I am just tired of this all - I can hardly remember what normal is any more. I want to be whole again, but can't even imagine it. I've been consumed by this for so long that it has wore me down.
(pitty party over)
Random observation:
she wants a connection first then re-build trust
I want to find trust first then figure out if we can re-connect.
To me this seems important and still seems like she has to figure out her path first (weigh all her options) before deciding.
Turn... at least shes working with you a bit and thinking about you guys . My wife just wants to leave and hope everything gets better when she does . The OM in my case has heavy influence although she denies it ..But I can relate to how tired and exhausted you must feel . How long have you been in your sitch ?
U-turn,
There is no "right" answer on the ring. Some things to think about:
- you said yourself, you don't want to appear petty or manipulative by taking it off. If you are taking it off to try to solicit a reaction from your W, you are doing it for the wrong reason.
- if you take it off, and she notices, will she think that you have thrown in the towel, and therefore it is ok for her to do whatever she is doing, because you don't consider yourself married anymore? You can't possibly mind read.
- what will not wearing your ring broadcast to others around you? Is that something you want to say?
Rings are symbolic, and very personal. In the big scheme of DB, they're small stuff. Taking off your ring is not going to assert a boundary. Taking off your ring is not going to turn your W around. Taking off your ring is not a major step in your master plan to make yourself into the person you need to be coming out of this ordeal. -- at least IMHO. Focus on something more worthy of your time.
I wear mine. I'm married until I'm not, and that's the message I wish to convey to W and everyone else.
THANKS zew-
Maybe that would be only for reaction again - I need patience. I do not want to throw in the towel.
Like I said I am all over the place. I have not taken my ring off in 20 years - not even for the petty arguments when we were very young. The ring is important to me (as it used to be to her)
You are right - thanks for waking me up and allowing me to see who I've been and am.
I'm so appreciative of this forum!
U-turn,
I will admit that I used to take off my rings when H traveled. For me it was a symbol to myself that I have a choice in all of this. He has made a choice to go against our marriage vow...I can choose to acknowledge that choice by taking off my rings.
It felt right to me at the time.
I had not taken off my wedding rings for 18 years, with the exception of when I was pregnant and too bloated to wear them!
Your choice. But I agree--don't do it for a reaction. Only do it if it feels right for you.
dawgy-
How long have you been in your sitch ?
I accept that we have both contributed to this, so it may be unfair to just put a timeline on the A. I think there was an accumulation of things throughout the last 20 years.
Things started getting a little rough in September/october of last year - though just some bumps (IMO) - I wasn't handling her new career as well as I should have.
We had a big breakdown at the end of january - I "mishandled" a suspicion that I had and it completely changed her.
I suspected OM with some proof mid march.
I told her that I knew about OM at the end of march - she didn't deny it (while on vacation with her and the kids).
It's a short time compared to many here, but it seems like an eternity to me - I'm sure everyone feels this way though
lol Thats too crazy . Us too started having a few problems in the fall . She started the affair in december last year . I found out about OM in march also and have been trying to deal with it since . But in my case she is still seeing him and wants to leave to be with him . It kills me when I have to say that . I was un fortunate in being that the OM s children are grown and it was only him and his wife . So he parted with her . Now im sure he is pressuring her to leave . The only thing keeping her home is that she doesnt want the kids to find out the truth . She wants me to just say mom and dad grew apart . Which is a lie . That the guy she is living with is a good guy and its noot his fault . Which is a lie . That she hasnt been seeing him all this time . Which is a lie . I refused to keep the secret and I believe this is why shes been treating me so badly
I understand. When things start going out in the open and others see what she is doing, she will have to deal with that. The kids will know eventually. It will make it real for her and will be a lot of pressure.
In my case:
I will would not say it's mutual to protect her.
OM is still with his W and has younger kids. Tells my w he won't break up his family (upstanding guy - ha). so it's all sneaking around.
I took my ring off for a week while I was considering LRT. But when I decided I wanted to keep trying to save the marriage I put it back on. To me it's a symbol that I'm still engaged in the concept of being married to her. It's a silent statement that the door is still open, while at the same time I was detaching and letting things take their course. I think giving the ring back to her is a message that you've given up - I don't think that's the message you want to send. Being the H that only a fool would leave still means you're the H which means you're still married so keep the ring on your finger. She'll notice. Whether she gets that message is another story.
Connection first. Then rebuild trust. That's the way it works. You can't build trust without connection. And building trust is a long process especially when it's been violated to such an extent. However connection can be rebuilt with the proper quality time together. When speaking with her look her in the eyes. Speak gently and lovingly. Don't bring up the A or OM. Just keep those topics off the table. But also no R talk. Just keep the quality time talk on things in your lives that are not in turmoil.
There was some movement this morning (hers) - a lot of emotion (hers), and I have to step back and see what that is about - while still trying to detach (if that makes any sense). She definitely is in some kind of turmoil over her life and decisions right now. I don't know if her actions are going to be toward or away right now.
Of course she's in turmoil. It's of her own making. Good. Let her stew in it. It's what she needs right now. Be understanding: "Gee that must be hard." But don't rescue. Don't try to fix it. (YouTube search: "It's not about the nail.") She's the only one who has control over herself.
Thanks Peter - I agree with this all - I've calmed down again (bad night) quiet day. No poking the bear to see what happens
I AM committed and need to show her that. I've been patient and need to keep that up. I had my ring off for a total of 2 hours today, but carried it in my pocket. It's on again.
Trust is going to be hard until she actually gives me something to trust. Makes that actual statement that it is over with OM. Until then I can't ask, I can't accuse, just stew (I mean detach).
I do a good job most of the time not speaking of A or OM. It has come up as a work and future career options - mainly by her. I try not to add or dwell on it.
BTW - I really like the It's not the Nail video. You sent me a link to it before. I do find it very hard not to comfort her when she's upset though (maybe that's rescuing). She was sobbing and came in for a hug and I held her. It's hard for me to turn that off sometimes.
I took my ring off for a few weeks even before bomb day. Things haven't been good since November: I had been comfort eating and it was just a bit too tight but I still carried it around in my wallet. I thought what the hell, she doesn't seem to care.
Subconciously I think it was a cry for attention, but she never noticed, or if she did, she didn't say anything and may even have reinforced her belief that our relationship was heading south.
I had put it back on by bomb day and wear it still as a symbol to me that I'm not giving up.
I'm trying to rebuild a connection. I told her last weekend I don't want to creep around the elephant in the room on all the broken eggshells, we have to learn to communicate again.
I keep looking at yours and dawgy's threads. I wish I had something more useful to say: it might even help me but for now all I can do is offer support. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks Old Dog.
It's not really funny how many times I need the same reminder of what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. And it's not about attention getting. I need to pick up the DR book again and re-read it. Start over.
I am still overwhelmed with the balance of trying to do the right thing (not the wrong thing at least)
all of these words fight with each other in my mind:
pursuing/quality time/conversation/detach
cake eating/dignity/patience/her journey
man-up/give her time
The list goes on and on. this all makes my head spin.....
All the support you give is great Old Dog. Keep it up. and keep up your efforts. Your active positive steps will pay off.
Thanks to everyone here!!
Going back to your thoughts about whether to wear your ring... When my H announced he was leaving, I asked what the separation meant -- do we take off our rings, will we be dating other people? He said yes and yes. I waited to take mine off until after he took off his. Then he moved out. My ring has a family diamond (my family) set into a setting I picked out. I didn't want to give it up, as I had received the diamond for my 16th birthday. I also didn't want my possibly doomed/failed relationship to define it, so I decided to rededicate my ring to myself -- my own personal strength and endurance and to my extended family who have supported me all these years. So I had it resized to go on my right hand. It was empowering. Now, even if H does return to the M, I don't plan to ever wear that ring on my left hand. That M is done. A new relationship would have to take its place. If at that time he requests that I wear a ring, then I would need to have a new ring representing a new commitment. The old promises that came with my original ring were broken.
It's not really funny how many times I need the same reminder of what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. And it's not about attention getting. I need to pick up the DR book again and re-read it. Start over.
Oh thank goodness it isn't just me.
I feel so useless at this sometimes ... actually quite a lot of the time. I wonder how am I ever going to manage especially when I'm alone in the midle of the night - which also includes when we're sleeping in the same bed.
Now, even if H does return to the M, I don't plan to ever wear that ring on my left hand. That M is done. A new relationship would have to take its place. If at that time he requests that I wear a ring, then I would need to have a new ring representing a new commitment. The old promises that came with my original ring were broken.
Ahoy, I like that a lot. I haven't worn my rings since DH rolled in at 6:30am the day before a family cruise. He had spent the night with OW, after having previously told me he had ended it. Those vows have been broken and trampled on. I like the idea of a new ring if the day ever comes that I should need one.
If all works out in the end for us - I can see a new marriage, new vows, new rings as well. If it gets to that.
When she took hers off and put it away, she said she won't wear it again until it's real. It was another hit to me, but I understood - at least she was honest enough with me to not fake that this is a real marriage right now. I look for her putting it back on as a sign that she is ready to work again.
I kept mine on as a sign that I am still fighting for us. I have been frustrated with the fight recently - that is why I thought about giving it back to her.
ahoy & rppfl - thank you for your perspective.
Your list of things bouncing around your head is quite similar to the list in my head.
A major difference between your story and mine is that my H thinks our marriage is fine.
Oh the list goes on:
being a man she would be crazy to leave / but detached. (I don't think she is accepting that one)
If I bounced around the house all happy-like, I think she would think everything is fine. It sometimes feels like I have to remind her that it's still not working.
I'm sure that is not DBing
I struggle with that a little bit, too
I did bounce around pleasantly for 2 months and H thought life was great. Then he asked me why I was still seeing a therapist. Then he got mad.
It was mad at himself. It does sound like he's been processing a lot in his brain. He's still trying to make it work, but realizing that it doesn't.
The thing that I'm really, really struggling with right now is something that he said to me and then reiterated about 10 days later.
"I always said that I would die for you, MLP. I would literally throw myself in front of a bullet to save your life. But I won't give up a friend. And that's killing you.
I won't kill myself to save you."
It's like O. Henry's Gift of the Magi.
I'm waiting for this to end, giving him the gift of time...but at what cost? He's slowly realizing that he's picked her--something I realized months ago.
And this just makes me realize that I need to detach more.
Do I do this with or without conversation? I don't know.
Do I or do I not go gentle into that good night.
Puzzling.
u-turn, if you give your ring back to her, then you are looking to get a reaction from her. If ultimately you do decide to take it off, do so for yourself, regardless of whether she notices or not. At least, that's how I interpret part of what "detaching" means. But I'm new to this too, so I'm feeling my way in the dark here...
That's really rotten stuff - I just don't understand these new priorities that they come up with.
Since this started, she has said a lot of things that she claims to not remember.
-I have changed and I don't know if I can be faithful any more
-She says that they will always be friends, they have so much in common, I think you would like him. (they have known each other less than a year).
(yes - I'd like to hang out sometime and shoot the breeze - talk about our families perhaps - yeeeesh!)
I know we shouldn't believe what they say, but it is hard to forget these things too. I wish there was a delete button for some of that stuff (or an unsee or unhear button).
There is such an imbalance of what we are giving and what they are willing to give (if anything)
**you got to me with the do not go gentle into that good night reference**
Thanks MLP
It just popped into my brain today. It's how I feel right now. Almost like I'm preparing for battle...I will NOT go gently into that good night.
Does it make you feel any better when you realize that all of the crazy things that she's said are part of the MLC script?
Every now and again I question if this actually is MLC, and then I read people's threads (like here) and I see that I have had EXACTLY the same conversation, almost word for word, and I think...."Hey - I know how THAT conversation went."
Brain bleach would be a wonderful thing to invest in.
Wow-I think that all the time.
It does make me feel better sometimes.
I tend to forget that she is out of control and did not just decide one day to hurt me - and keep doing it. I tend to forget about the MLC aspect but when I re-read and dig deeper into that, it makes sense.
I can't say for sure if that is what has happened/is happening, but I also cannot say what else it is. It is very familiar when I read other's posts (yours).
I'm so glad I found this place - I would be in such a BAD place without all of the great people here. I've learned so much.
So-something that causes a break down - I feel it's detaching, she feels it's me not accepting.
She talks a lot about work - I let her and listen, acting or being interested. In the conversations she brings up OM - She works with him daily. I tend to fade off and shut down a little and this infuriates her. She reads my face. She usually shuts down (or storms off like tonight).
This is going to be tough - I am trying to stay detached, and a daily conversation about our work days used to be so normal. Now - with this - it gets to me every time. I know - detach.
My suggestion: boundary about OM in conversation. She is not to bring him up, period.
If she does, you can walk away.
She can stew.
The end.
I hadn't heard about OW in ages until two weeks ago, and not really again since then. It was definitely more pleasant.
I did just that. When she came back I told her that while I like to have normal conversation about our days, it hurts me to hear about your interaction with him. I won't stay for these conversations.
Hey. Great minds...it felt good to verbalize it.
Of course she didn't like it. She talked about having to compartmentalizing work and home, what can we talk about? and said "maybe we should separate"
I replied "maybe we should". Probably should have said, "I'm sorry you feel that way" to validate, but I didn't.
I don't even get upset by that anymore - annoyed.
Hey guys Dawgy here . Im starting to come out of a bad place that ive been in all this week . A couple things changed , I put my ring back on . Not to gain a reaction from her because Im sure she wouldnt care but as per conversation here it got me thinking and yeah Im not willing to remove it while Im still married and committed to my vows .If we separate I will continue to wear it . If we divorce then it will be removed and likely pawned for a jug of rum . lol
In the process of GAling ive mentioned about my interaction with other women and temptations that go along with it . It struck me last night at my sons football game that hey !! everything is going to work out one way or the other . If me and W make it then fine . But if we dont im kind of excited to know that there are countless other women out there looking for me . So i will not ever be alone unless I choose it .
Now Im not telling any of you guys to go out and see whats out there for you as far as mates but i think it is therapy for me . I have been practicing self control and Im not going to have an affair but I am going to interact with women just to remind me of what a great catch I am . Great for my confidence . U Turn , Mlp you can do the same without cheating , flirting is fine and it does make you realize life will go on and you will be happy again whatever way things go for us . Some will say not to do this , its not proper DBing but i think if you set boundaries with yourself this can do wonders for your confidence rebuilding . Just a thought , I know Im gonna hear it for this one lololol Dawgy
Hey there dawgy - glad to hear that you are feeling better. It's such a ride - isn't it?
I am keeping my ring on through the end too - I've thought it through - with some help here. I look at symbolism in my life and that is one of the things that symbolizes what I am doing, what I care about, and what I am fighting for.
another one (stupid symbolism) - my garden just won't grow this year and I cannot control the weeds. That sums things up for how I feel about my life sometimes. I don't share these thoughts with any one (well - until now).
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I am not even close to getting out there and being mr. charming. I don't want that right now. I think that comes from my history. That would be such a big move for me - I have not done that in 26 years (except with Mrs. U-turn). I totally understand how that can help some people's psyche but I don't think it would be good for mine. I would feel like I am not being honest then. I am not saying some day, but it is not in my playbook right now. (I am also not saying that it is bad for other people to do that either)
Before all of this W & I used to joke about not needing or wanting another relationship if anything were to ever happen to either of us - times have changed I guess.
wow, man, I am so happy for you -- it may not feel like it, but the statement "it is going to work out either way" is a real breakthrough -- it was mine, too, by the way -- my ring is on and has never been off -- will never be -- I've decided to live as a married man, regardless of what happens -- a little out there, yes, but I think my girls will ask me someday why I am still alone --- that will be my sign that I did exactly what I intended -- served as a model for what commitment to my family looks like -- that is my long-term goal -- I think you need to do what make you feel confident -- all of us will pick differently in this area, and I think that is ok -- I think what folks were saying a couple days ago is do it for yourself, not to get your wife back -- at least that is what I ment :-) ... how is the tummy??
Tummy is better . Macdonald s junior chicken sandwichs saved me . I said to heck with the healthy eating and just try to get some food in . Then when I feel better i will get on some healthy stuff > U Turn , I hope you didnt misunderstand what i was saying about interacting with women during GALing . Im not suggesting anything other than platonic relations and harmless flirting to build the confidence . Because frankly i dont care how much preaching goes on here about its not our fault and the problem is with our spouses not us . Well I bet every last one of us feels alot less confident and less appealing than we did before our sitches started . My point is to drive home the FACT that we are all still able to find a new mate that finds us attractive in many ways . Im not going to sleep with any ( although the opportunity is there ) Im only being friendly and maybe a little flirty and the response is well recieved which in turn is building my confidence . I cant keep falling into that hole she keeps kicking me into . Its too hard on me . However i will stay committed to her and I will NOT cheat .
Dawgy - I didn't take it as a suggestion to go further. I too feel like I can a confidence/self esteem boost (I've not been good with that anyway).
I wasn't judging that plan, only saying that I don't feel that it is what I am after right now. And (not saying that you are), but I have a feeling that I would go out like a wounded bird looking for someone to pick me up and help me. I just want to avoid that now until I can go out as me and not me with a sob story.
I'm also not suggesting that I wouldn't be friendly to whoever I was talking to - I feel that, even with my introverted tendencies, I am usually friendly - just not outgoing.
I think you need to do what's best for you, but keep your goals in mind. Friendly is always good.