I've been following the guide for a little less then a month now, giving space, detaching and GAL. It's been going very well for me and my wife has noticed, she often says why didn't you do this years ago. However, when ever we talk it always comes down to the same thing, she doesn't want to give us another chance because she doesn't want to give up the OM she has fallen in "love" with.
Is there anything else I can do to stop the EA from becoming a PA and ruining our marriage forever? I'm guessing no as the first scoop of ice cream is always better and more interesting then the last.
I went to the library for the first time yesterday and they will have DR in within the week, it looks like I'll have to order DB online though, not sure which i should start with or if it even matters.
Is it still ok to hold onto hope and let your spouse know you still care about her? Not that you need her in your life, the choice to leave is hers and is entirely free of any guilt.
The other night she was bawling and very upset with guilt over what she was doing. I decided to go and comfort her since not being there emotionally is why she wants out in the first place. I gave her a gentle hug told her everything was going to be ok and that if she wanted to talk to come get me. I then excused myself and went for a run. Was this the correct course of action? Or should i have just let her work through it herself?
Welcome aboard. Of course you should hold on to hope! Many marriages survive an EA. It is serious and difficult, but very possible.
The manner in which you respond is crucial and therefore you need to get as much information ASAP!
I am having to use my phone to post ( and not very well I'm afraid), so tomorrow I hope to write you more.
Can you give us a little more history about your M?
Thanks for your comment sandi, I'll look forward to any advice you can offer.
I'm 28 and my wife is 27 we have been together 10 years and married for only 2. I've always felt we had a very healthy relationship, we would do a lot of things together, with friends and with both our families. Shortly after we got married we tried to have kids and found out I have poor sperm and it would be unlikely to conceive naturally. We tried ivf and after that failed we found out that my wife might have issues as well. While we waited for the test results to come back my wife began going out more and started drinking (something she hadn't done while we were trying). About a month ago she told me she no longer loved me and that she was starting to have feelings for someone else. I don't know if she ever said the D word but it is definitely implied. She has since moved out of our bed and into the guest room as well as stopped speaking to me and avoids me as much as possible.
I'm not innocent in all of this I've been an avid gamer my entire life and often would put games before her needs. I realize now I have an addiction and quit immediately after realizing how bad things had gotten.
I've been trying to follow the rules and just give her space but I feel her drifting further away with no reason to ever return. She is very needy so I'm not sure if space is the right method or if i should try to support her and beg her to give us a chance, she is a good person and doesn't want to see me hurt.
We spent this weekend pretty much 100% a part. I went to visit some friends on saturday and i assume she did the same, only thing is she never came home saturday night, which nearly killed me. I know I'm not suppose to think or care about what she does because I can't change it but it hurts so much to think she spent the night with the OM. This morning things changed again, she moved all of her stuff to the guest bathroom to get ready, i have barely spoken to her so i'm not sure why this would happen? Am I reading too much into it?
I can see your pain in the posts you've written. I'm sure this must be so hard to understand what's happening to her.
I know I'm not suppose to think or care about what she does because I can't change it but it hurts so much to think she spent the night with the OM.
Let's look at this again, okay? You
are suppose to care about what she does b/c she's your W and you love her. Of course it hurts to think she may have spent the night with OM! (Do you know for certain she stayed with him?)
If you didn't care about what she does, you'd probably check out and move on. I believe the point you may be thinking about is to not allow
her actions to take over your life and cause you to react with negative behavior. It's only human to feel the pain our loved ones can inflict upon us. But it is up to us in what we do with it. We can react in every negative, unproductive, unattractive, and unhealthy way imaginable....or we can do the opposite.
We say divorce busting is counter-intuitive b/c it really does seem to be the opposite of what we feel like doing, or think should work. Our nature wants to hold on tighter, but it doesn't work with a WAS (walk away spouse). And you are correct about not being able to control her. You may be surprised to learn that you tend to have more controlling ways than you thought. This journey can be an eyeopener about ourselves.
On the other hand, you may be the type of guy who is very passive and just lets your W take care of everything, make all the decisions, and boss you around. I hope you're not, b/c women lose respect for their H when they don't speak up, stand up, and lead.
I am really sorry to hear about the results of the IVF. You said you found out W had issues as well as you. I assume you mean her having physical problems of getting pregnant? I can't pretend to know how either of you must feel. The disappointment must be overwhelming.
Was it upon learning this news that your W suddenly changed her behavior? Was she drinking out of sadness or anger....or both? Did either of you seek any counseling after the news?
You definitely need support during this ordeal, and if you will stay with us, I'm sure others will join in to let you know you're not alone. Maybe there is someone else who has experienced the pregnancy problems you are facing and can help you much more than I can.
I encourage you to stick to one thread until it locks, then start another one. It makes it easier for us to keep up.
Read all you can about walk away wives. Read the Divorce Remedy book all the way through.
Thanks for your reply sandi, i fear i've really messed things up now though. She came to me tonight to discuss the next steps for separation and i did everything wrong. I tried to convince her to stay and discussed the marriage and many of our problems. Ugh i'm such an idiot my mind kept telling me to just walk away but my mouth wouldn't stop talking.
She hadn't been drinking while we were trying to get pregnant, she is by no means an alcholic or anything just enjoys having a good time with friends. We didn't seek counseling after the failed ivf, perhaps we should have i thought our relationship was strong enough to get through it.
Update, more details about our talk.
I read somewhere that spouses really do know how to push buttons that lure their spouse into an argument and I feel I got caught on that trap. She wanted to talk about how to move forward with the separation, I feel I started out well by telling her simply that she would need to look into it and decide how she wanted to proceed, this is the point I should have walked away. She continued to push saying she wanted my advice and needed to talk about how we would split things up, at this point I said I didn't want to separate but I wouldn't fight her on it and she should talk to a lawyer. It was at this point she started to look really sad and would dangle reconciling just within reach and then pull it away and attack something in our marriage or about me. I tried to remain calm and tried to be sure to not beg or plead her to give us another try. I just continued to let her know I cared about her and was making changes for me.
She so badly wants my blessing for getting a divorce and i don't understand why? She says things like I don't understand how you were so blind sided by this? Which to me is shocking considering we had a great weekend at a friends cottage the week before and the week before that she was at my moms going through old family pictures to create an album for me.
She left for a drive after realizing we were just going in circles, this is when i made the above post. When she came home I appologized and said we should sit down and talk about the logistics, this was the hardest conversation i've ever had while keeping my emotions in check. After a long late night discussion about how to split up the assets and where she would go, she said she was tired and didn't want to think about it any more. I spoke to her this morning as she agreed that it would be ok for me to go to our volleyball league together, she knows how much i love playing. I asked if we should drive separate and let people know about what's going on and she said no we can drive together and not to tell anyone yet.
I'm now more sure then ever she has no intention of giving up the OM to give our relationship another go. I'm slowly coming to terms with that, I will no longer ask her to stay and help her with the separation papers if she needs it.
Thanks everyone for reading your support has helped me through by far the hardest year of my life.
If your wife says she doesn't love you any more, is having an EA and doesn't seem interested in saving the marriage is it worth it to try marriage counselling? I do believe that if I asked her to go she would but I've read that in these cases it may do more harm then good as she will be unreceptive to what the counsellor is saying and will just use it as validation that the relationship is unsavable. I'm interested to hear what othershave to say about this situation.
Edit: I'm still waiting on the library for the DR book, so if it's covered in there I'm sorry.
Don't do counseling yet. Save that for if she wants to. If you do want to throw it out there, and she's interested (which I doubt during the EA), make sure the counselor is solutions oriented and committed to saving marriages, not giving her reassurance for her decision to quit.
Prior to reading DR, at least read and try to follow Sandi's 37 rules. It's a good place to start.
Wife told me she found a place that she could move to last night. She seems really genuinely upset and often leaves our conversation in tears. I've been nothing but supportive of her decision while letting her know it's not something I want. I just don't understand if she is so upset over the thought of leaving why is she so eager to get out?
I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach before anyone else. Our coaches are trained in pro marriage strategies and understand the methods needed to change relationships and save marriages. Please call me to discuss our coaching program.
303-444-7004
Thanks Roberta I think I will, I'm at work right now which makes it hard, what are your hours of operation? I can't seem to find anything on the site under telephone coaching
Wife just called and said her dad wanted to have coffee with me to see how i'm doing. I know we are suppose to cut off the family contact but is this different especially if we don't discuss the M?
I don't know where you get some of these ideas when you haven't read the book yet. You don't have to cut off family contact. In most cases it is best not to get M advice and/or interference from your friends and relatives.
I think you should meet your FIL for coffee, especially if you have had a good R with him. It is up to you if you want to answer any questions he may ask. And he may ask if you want the D. Tell him the truth. OTOH, he may not ask anything and just express his sorrow.
I'm not suggesting you get on FB and blab to the world about her A, but you aren't obligated to cover up the truth from immediate family members. She may not want people to know the real reason she wants a D. A lot of women prefer others not know they want another man, and may even expect the LBH to lie for her. After all, the truth isn't always pretty. But your W was the one who told you her dad wanted to meet with you......and she didn't coach you, right?
Thanks sandi your advice is always appreciated. I had my first talk with a marriage coach today and he said the same thing, as well as gave me some great advice on how to handle the coffee. W did call me and told me her dad wanted to meet and didn't mention anything i should or shouldn't say.
Having an exceptionally rough night so figured i'd post instead of doing something stupid.
Wife never came home last night which i've been slowly coming to terms with, giving space and such. However when she came home today her clothes were caked in mud. She never ever wanted to go camping with me much less ever get dirty, i couldn't even convince her to come to a cottage with sime friends because she was so insecure about going without makeup and pooping. Is it possible she has really changed or is this just a front to impress someone else? I know it doesn't matter and i can't change her actions but writting this is all that is stopping me from going upstairs and asking about her weekend and where she was.... Also asking why she never wanted to do anything with me.
Hi Hoju,
Has your W moved out yet? If not, that must be the hardest part of having an in-house separation, when they do not come home at night. Keep strong, stay away from her.
Thanks wet the support is really appreciated.
It's been really hard with her still living here, not ever knowing where she is or where she has been is absolutely killing me. At the same time it's the only thing still giving me hope for reconciliation. I'm just trying to be a good roommate at this point and giving her lots of space in hopes she doesn't leave. I know she has been looking at apartments and i feel if she leaves it's all over for us.
She told me last night she put in an application for an apartment and can move out as soon as september 1st. We are also going to sit down tonight to divide up the house and assets for the separation. I'm so lost I really thought she was noticing the changes i've been making. This is all becoming a reality and at such a rapid speed, she still seems really upset and guilty about the whole thing, i'm trying to continue to validate her feelings without supporting them, which is almost impossible.
We sat down last night and divided up all the assets, everything went really well.
When we were done and looking at our entire life split up on a single page my W broke down ran to her room and started crying for almost an hour. I took the time to go for run as she had closed her door i assumed she didn't want to see me.
I think I probably should have gone to console her, as that would be a 180. However, it also violates many of the rules. Often in our relationship I would simply ignore her when she would cry, I know it was wrong but when it was almost a daily occurrence and after so many years of trying to console her, I just became desensitized to it.
Need some advice.
Wife got an apartment and is leaving september 1st. I can't afford to carry the house for long by myself so we agreed to sell it. I know how much my W loves this house and if we can R I would like to still live here. Should I ask her if she feels there is any chance of us getting back together or just let her go and sell the house
Could really use some advice i think if the house is gone and she's in her own apartment it's over. I don't think I have time to wait in hopes she changes her mind.
Can anyone offer any advice on if i should keep our house when W leaves in hopes of R? I can carry it for a bit by myself but it would eat into my savings.
I think I'm going to break DBing and go for a hail mary pass. Time has run out and when she is gone in a week it's all over anyway.
Despite what you feel, it's not the end.
Your Hail Mary isn't going to work. You really need to have patience with this and it's seemed like from the beginning you are letting your fear dictate your actions rather than you controlling them.
I don't think I was a good enough husband to really make her regret leaving, especially not this past year when I became depressed over the fertility issues. To add to that it's like she's changed over night from rushing to become a mother and starting a family, to wanting to become a 21 year old party girl.
Yes, I'm beyond horrified of losing her, I don't know how to live without her. Since I've been 18 my goal was to get through school, get a job, get a house and have kids. It's all we ever wanted, we had a lot of fun along the way, which i recently remembered after flipping through some old face book photos today. It's like having all my goals, my entire life and purpose for being, just ripped out from under me. I love her family and her friends, I absolutely love our house and cats, I loved being married and most of all I love her.
Despite all of that I've tried very hard to not let fear guide my decisions. Can you give me an example of where I'm letting fear guide my decisions? I'm not sure I truly know what it means.
" Can you give me an example of where I'm letting fear guide my decisions?"
Here.
"I think I'm going to break DBing and go for a hail mary pass. Time has run out and when she is gone in a week it's all over anyway."
Hoju, I am in a very similar situation. I am sorry you are going through this. All I can really add to the conversation is that what you feel today is not what you will feel tomorrow. Do whatever you have to do to get both books, DB and DR. I have learned that I really have to think through what I am going to do or say before I do it. Making big changes is very hard to do, and any knee jerk reaction is probably going to be the old you, not the new you.
Start doing 180s for yourself. Making changes for yourself will begin to build your self esteem and is the first step to becoming the person your W will want to be with.
Thanks MrBond, I see how I was letting fear dictate my actions. I'm still really scared but I can't show that. You're right the hail mary pass wont work anyway and can only serve to make things worse (I think I already knew this deep down). I will proceed with selling the house as planned and continuing on with my life with out W.
Thanks bdub, I am currently read DR now hope to get time to finish it tomorrow, apparently GAL is so demanding I haven't left myself anytime to actually read lol. Your words "what you feel today is not what you will feel tomorrow" truely helped me through one of my weak days. I feel much better today and am actually excited to spend the night with some friends. I've made my decision about the house for me because it's what I want and what has to happen, free and clear of any emotionally rash thinking from yesterday.
MrBond, When you have a moment, could you drop by my thread? I really need your sage words of wisdom. TKs.
Update: Started reading DR about half way through.
W came into my room and started talking about our relationship looking for justification. I tried to continue to validate her while venting a bit of my own frustrations and letting her know how I felt. After I felt myself getting emotional and her seeming refusal to leave even though the conversation was clearly not going anywhere I excused myself for a run and she stormed off and closed her room door. When I got back I apologized for leaving and simply told her I started to feel emotional and needed a bit of time to cool off. We talked a bit more and she is still seeking justification for her actions and has no interest in R. I assume this was another cheeseless tunnel I will monitor her actions for the next few days to make sure. On the bright side I got to vent a bit and hopefully plant some seeds that may make her realize I've learned so much from this.
Hoju our bomb dropping and EA confirming happened on the same day. We are going through a lot of the same things right now. I have good days and bad days. Days of sadness, fear, anger, anxiousness and helplessness. The occasional good day has popped in. Check out my sitch and keep in touch, I think we can help each other.
Thanks bdub, yes she told me there was someone else the day she told me she no longer loved me and wanted out. I had to confront her about what was wrong as she had been acting off and distant for a couple weeks. I'm going to go read your sitch now.
In other news I backslid hard on monday night, she started pressing for the sale of the house and out of fear of this becoming permanent i started up my old convincing ways again. I said a lot of things I shouldn't have mostly about guilting her for the OM. On the bright side I feel my detachment is complete, I've said my piece and understand fully there is nothing I can say (or probably do at this point) that will fix this.
The hardest part about all of this is you have to forget about the OM. I know, its almost impossible. I need some vets to back me up on this one. Don't snoop, spy or ask questions. It will only push her away. I'm telling you the day after I stopped snooping I felt SO much better. It will take a little while to convince yourself. Just think that unless she specifically tells you shes going to see OM or talk with OM, there are tons of other friends and family that she could be seeing or talking with. You have to convince yourself of this or you will go crazy and you will not be able to DB.
It may help you to set up some boundaries to protect yourself too. I am horrible with boundaries but I have managed to get her to agree to no phone calls to or from him on our property and he is not to ever be at our house. Before you try to set boundaries do your research. If its not done exactly right, setting boundaries sounds controlling and manipulative. Trust me on that, I have failed miserably with boundaries.
Thanks bdub, I read your sitch and ours are very similar. One of your recent posts about "ships passing in the night" and not being able to 180 emotional closeness really hit home.
I had been so good about ignoring the OM until I blew it all a couple nights ago. The fact he was in the picture and if it's who I think it is the fact he shared a cigar with me on our wedding day made me actually sick but I was always able to keep it in. As long as she thinks there is a future for them I can't see her wanting to work on our marriage which hurts the most, especially since I've always been the one to sacrifice things to try and make her happy.
I'm not sure how to set boundaries or what boundaries are needed, she doesn't talk about him or where she is going. It's always just down to business of how quickly she can get out and on with her life.
Maybe you can help with an issue i've been having. Often on sunday nights she will come to my room when i'm reading in bed and want to talk about us and see how i'm handling things. I try my best to validate her but then she wont leave and i feel pretty silly getting up after i'm already down for the night. How do i end the conversation without sounding dismissive?
Hoju,
Stop doing the same old thing. In our R we almost always talked at night, lying in bed. Just recently I figured out that is a very dangerous thing. Its an emotional place, and the timing is bad because you have "shut down" for the night. We now go outside (we live on a few hundred acre farm) and sit and talk. Since we changed locations we have not had a single major blow up. When emotional topics arise we seem to be able to handle them better. Also, I don't think there is a thing wrong with stopping the conversation. I have said " I'm sorry but I cannot continue to participate in this conversation productively. If we continue my anger/emotion will get the best of me and we will end up blowing up. We can finish addressing this issue at xxx time."
Thanks bdub i've tried to make sure our talks don't happen in the bed room. While there is less emotion on her end I do feel our talks have become more cold and direct.
More and more people are starting to find out and the more that do the more support i've been getting. I know it's dangerous to seek support from friends and family as they will always tell you what you want to hear. However all this new support has started to turn my love into anger towards her. How could someone be so self centred? How could someone be so cruel? How could the same person who marriage was so important to, spit in its face after only 2 short years?
I want to save my marriage and i do love my wife but all this anger and hurt building up inside has become increasingly difficult to deal with. Anyone have advice on how to stop/control these feelings?
Hoju, I just went through this exact thing. Often times the people you talk with are more angry than you are. Just remember you have chosen to DB and to stand for your marriage. One particular close friend of mine is very pro marriage he gets so worked up when we talk. I found it is helpful to become angry actually. Go ahead and get angry and release it PRODUCTIVELY. Excersise, do physical labor, go out on a secluded road and yell and scream all you want. Get that anger out, you will feel a LOT better. I actually grabbed a hammer and a dozen nails and found some lumber. I pounded the nails in the wood, pulled them out and drove them in again. I hope this helps!
Thanks again bdub, i beat the snot out of my pillow last night and it did help relieve a lot of the anger and stress. I'll try the nail thing tonight, that sounds like a great and entertaining stress reliever.
Just some updates/journaling
We met with the real estate agent yesterday about listing the house. W seemed noticeably upset about having to sell I think she was really hoping i would decide to keep it. I asked for 24 hours to make my decision in hopes W will come around. Real estate agent expects the house to sell quickly within 2 weeks, it's going to move really fast when i give the green light.
I tried to act cool and collected with the house sale and kept my emotions out of it. When W asked how I was doing with it I simply said "I love the house and don't want to sell but I can't reasonably keep it", I then went to watch tv. I'm not sure how to handle 180s in this situation, on one hand my past self would have done the same thing become emotionally unattached to the situation and gone off to distract myself from the issue, on the other hand i can't become an emotional train wreck and start begging her to stay again so we can keep the house.
I've done very well with my 180s and my W has noticed and said "i've seen flashes of the life i always wanted". However she still doesn't want to give us another try, i'm not sure why. She does seem to still care deeply for me and is concerned about how I'm feeling, I assume it's not out of love but just the concern you would have for a long term friend.
I hate to hear that you have to sell the house. Remember, it's the realtors job to tell you it will sell quickly. Also remember that it will take a while to get it listed. Once its listed people have to find it, then look at it and then decide to put an offer on it. I think you still have some time. If you are making progress in your MR you can always slow play any offer that comes, or flat out turn it down!
Also, maybe you could view her negative reaction to the listing as a positive? Maybe she is waffling a little bit on her decision.
Hoju, my poor pillow can't take much more abuse. Between the punching, crying and tossing and turning it will be worn out soon.
Keep working on the 180s. Make sure they are designed to make you a better person. She is noticing so keep it up!
I really wish WAW's would think of the pillows before they decide to pull stunts like this.
She just texted me about getting back to the realtor of my answer. After a few texts back and forth that almost sounded like she might be asking for more time (but not wanting to tell me) i said go a head and tell the realtor we are ready to list. Should I ask W if she thinks there is any chance of R and let her know I would be willing to hold onto the house if she just wanted some time to work things out on her own?
I think it might be wise to ask for some time to consider it? I would not ask W if she thinks there is any chance of R right now, that will push her away. I need a vet to back me up on this one, but thats how I feel. Without knowing how hard it will be on you financially, I cannot give you a good answer re: how long to wait.
Financially it would be tough but I could manage for a couple years, depending how much the W would require me to buy her out for. There are other issues with keeping the house though.
Cons:
It's far from work/friends/family for me
It's a lot of house for 1 person, especially with the upkeep
It would be a financial burden on me, more so after buying W out and replacing furniture
Pros:
I love the house
It seems like W is asking for me to keep it, not sure if she is thinking in case of R and she just needs to work through some things.
180 issues:
I've always been indecisive about big decisions, taking a firm stand would be a 180
On the other hand, i've always tried to minimize responsibilities so showing her i can manage the house without her help would be a big 180 too
Although what kind of a door mat would I be if i allowed her to get a bachelor pad and a hall pass to see what else is out there while keeping me in the wings?
I'm so messed up right now and everything is moving way to quickly.
I hear what you are saying about the doormat issue. If you label it with the words "devoted husband" does that change your perspective any? Instead of "in the wings", how about " standing for your marriage" ? Little things like this have made my life a LOT easier.
I initially went into total doormat mode. As she started walking all over me I set up boundaries. I failed miserably the first few times but eventually I got there. The boundaries and thinking positive should help you!
Thanks bdub great advice as usual. Looking at it from a different perspective does help me justify holding onto it a little better. I'm leaving shortly to go sign the listing paperwork with 1 addendum, the listing date is to be left blank. This will allow us to get the stager in and have things ready to go. I should note it was the W who pushed for this, she blamed me to the realtor saying i felt things were moving really fast. I did say this but it was prefaced by "I'm ok with it and feel it's fair what the realtor has said" in no way did I lead on that listing immediately was a huge issue. Probably just reading too much into things again but it would appear she's not quite ready to burn this bridge yet.
In other news I met with FIL last night for coffee. He was very remorseful on his behalf and for her entire family. He mentioned that they were all blindsided by this and wishes he knew sooner so he could have done more. I was shocked about this since W told me that they saw it coming. Aside from that we just had a nice talk about stocks, sports and the state of the world. Since there was very little talk about our R I feel I missed a chance to express my own failures in the marriage and take responsibility for them, not a huge issue and i did let him know i was hoping for reconciliation.
I called my FIL and told him that i was standing for my marriage about a week after BD. Needless to say W had told her side of the story only and it was NOT a good conversation. I dont regret telling him what I was doing, I wanted to be sure they knew I was not giving up. I did not take the opportunity to fill them in on my side. It would have done no good. They are her support system. Her parents know that I am fighting with all my heart to save our M, and that I am in it alone. If that is not enough to make them think I am a decent man then the issue is theirs and not mine. Twice in the last week I have heard her defend me to her mom over the phone. More on that later maybe.
Re: the listing: Simply by bringing up the fact that it is all happening so fast has allowed your W to mind read and put words in your mouth. When you said things were moving really fast, she heard you say things were moving TOO fast and that really concerned you. take advantage of it and slow things down. Set the stager appointment back a while. Take your time making decisions. Time is your friend. Look back early in my sitch, I had that fact hammered in to me pretty early.
I guess I'm fortunate, despite the in-laws being her support system my FIL was very sympathetic to me and didn't blame either party. This after noon W texted me and asked if i had gotten coffee with her father. I said "i had" and she asked how that went and i said "really well". Pretty sure she is nervous I would rat her out about the OM as her parents would greatly disapprove, especially since she lied right to their faces when they asked her if there was someone else. Can't honestly see why else she would bother to text.... Maybe a baby step? At least i'm on her mind.
I signed all the house paperwork over lunch and the stager is coming tonight (was prearranged yesterday) however it's been left solely up to me as to when to list the house, i still have time on my side.
Be careful how much you tell your FIL. At the end of the day, blood is thicker than water, and he will only want his daughter to be happy.
Overall, today was better than yesterday? One day at a time, one foot in front of the other.
I agree with mindsin on the in laws. I know its not right, but I talked to my FIL and SIL and I was very careful about what I said. I used the conversation to attempt to sort of manipulate the advise they were giving, and were going to give to W. I sort of "showed my cards" but not all of it was true. Manipulation is a BAD thing and this is the only time I will do it.
They did in fact filter the conversation back to W and they said exactly what I wanted them to say. Calculated risk that paid off.
I am NOT reccomending you do this though. I was a nervous wreck for 3 days until the message finally filtered back to me through conversation with W.
I didn't really talk to FIL much about the R, he just wanted to make sure i was doing ok and express his sympathy. I made sure not to tell him anything that would upset W as per the sandi rules.
After the stager left W started packing and getting the house tidy for sale, maybe I'm not in as much control of the list date as originally anticipated. I know I shouldn't have done it but I offered to help, mostly just carting boxes that were too heavy for her to lift. I did it on my own terms though, after i had made myself a nice stir fry for dinner and in between watching an epic thunder storm going on.
All and all I thought it would be harder watching her stuff leave the house. Maybe I just have no more room for sadness left or maybe it was the exercise of lifting boxes that calmed me down, either way i'm quietly enjoying a beer, watching a great light show, and making a forum post to supportive friends. I'm feeling content with my life moving forward (at least tonight), where ever forward may lead.
Edit: is today better then yesterday? Emotionally for me yes, for reconciliation not at all.
It is impossible to avoid helping. I have given in to that fact.
Keep working on yourself and doing your DB. I am in the same situation you are in. Emotionally I get better every day. W gets further away everyday but we have come to terms with it and have chosen a plan of action. Lately I have been spending a lot of time picturing what its going to be like when she moves. I am picturing the worst so that I am at least somewhat prepared for what actually happens.
FIL came by to help pack/move today, i felt guilty again and helped him move some of the bigger furniture. Brought back a lot of memories over the past 10 years we've been together I've probably helped her family move 20+ times.
The fog with the WAW and OM is very strong. We just had a short chat about moving on and wishing each other the best. She is still pretty negative about our relationship, blaming everything on my computer gaming addiction (which has been 180'd for months). She's convinced people don't change or is trying to convince herself people don't change to make what she has done easier for her. She did say that her family is mostly supporting me in this, which was nice to hear, i know it doesn't mean [censored] but still feels good to have some cheerleaders. Moving onward trying to stay positive, need to hope OM hits it and ditches it (as much as that kills me to say about my wife).
She also said she has been a people pleaser for so long that she lost who she was, not sure what that means? She sure as hell never tried to please me. Even now it seems like she is still trying to please people just the single crowd instead of the married crowd. Anyone ever had this one dropped on them and can add some insight?
I hate to say it but a few months of 180 on the computer gaming will not make up for the years of how it used to be. Keep up with the changes! I know that I took my wife for granted for 15 years. It just becomes a habit, especially when she does nothing to stop it or change it.
My wife is pretty convinced people dont change. We have been through 2 rough spots and changed for the better, only to fall right back into the same ruts. I am looking for ways to show her this time is different, but she will have to somehow trust that the changes I am making are not the same as last time.
I bet at one point in time she tried to please you. She just didnt know how to please you and you didnt know how to see she was trying.
When I feel like the W's A is getting stronger, I keep telling myself "If you want something to shrink, you must first allow it to expand".
Also, understand that if your W is meant to be with this OM, then that is what will happen and it will be HER choice. The only thing you can do is make yourself into the better choice.
If she's reached a point where she is still contemplating you as one of her choices, consider that to be in your favor.
Sorry I haven't posted in a few days, just not sure what to say anymore. Time has gone by so quickly. I've successfully detached which has made W feel much more comfortable with talking to me. She is seeing a lawyer today about the separation agreement and is fully packed to move out on monday. I'm sad to see her go and wish we had more time but I feel it will be good for me to get some space and a sense of normalcy back in my life.
Edit: As for the OM he is going to look like the best choice and nothing I can do will change that. I saw a funny quote I feel many of you would enjoy.
"The grass is always greener on the side because it's fertilized with bullshit"
"The grass is always greener on the side because it's fertilized with bullshit"
lulz, thank you
Need help quick.
I just came home and W wanted to talk. She mentioned about the meeting with the lawyer today then got really sad about having to sell the house, i simply asked "did you want to take more time with this and maybe work on us" she sat in silence for about 30sec so i bowed my head and walked away. at this point she flew off the handle and got super mad. She is now in her room crying should i go talk to her? Why on earth is she mad?
Ok, first, IF you talk to her, LISTEN. VALIDATE. Do not go off into a R talk on your own. Right now she is probably overwhelmed with emotions. The entirety of the D is probably hitting her right now. This does not mean she wants to reconcile. It just means she is stressed and sad. She may very well be wondering if she is doing the right thing.
You may try this. Walk into her room and say " I am sorry you are upset I want you to know I am here to LISTEN if you want to talk." And then walk away. Do not pressure her by standing around. Let her decide if she wants to talk and if she does, she can come to you.
Just my thoughts...
****Disclaimer**** I am not current on your situation.
Ok thanks the crying has stopped so i assume she has gone to sleep. I guess i really blew it again tonight probably my last chance to save this too.
While I am not completely familiar with your situation, I do know that in most cases, one incident does not doom you, nor save you. Everything is measured in baby steps. You may or may not have missed an opportunity for a positive. No point in worrying about what has already happened. Worry about what you know and what you can do in the future. You know your w was worked up and upset. You know she seemed to be reaching out. If she is really having second thoughts, she will approach you again. But do not expect it. Keep working on your own 180s, your own GAL, and your own PMA. Be the person she wants to be with...not just a person she is forced to be with. Big difference.
Good luck!
I promise to read your whole thread before going into deep details, b/c how can I give you specific advice without knowing ALL the facts?
Yet I feel compelled to address something simple, & upfront now, before going any further.
(See Notes below)I've been following the guide for a little less then a month now, giving space, detaching and GAL. It's been going very well for me and my wife has noticed, she often says why didn't you do this years ago.
B/c you have had an awakening now (and though you cannot tell HER this, the fact remains that it IS better late than never), and you are glad to finally be making the changes you always needed and wanted to make - to be the man YOU want to become, the man she deserves, the man you were meant to be...
However, when ever we talk it always comes down to the same thing, she doesn't want to give us another chance because she doesn't want to give up the OM she has fallen in "love" with.
Is there anything else I can do
to stop the EA from becoming a PA and ruining our marriage forever?
The REAL reason you cannot stop her from anything is b/c you do not control her OR him. You only control you.
Oh Sure, SURE!! You've heard that 100 times already. And yet...still, a part of you, deep down resists that statement....but when you REALLY GET THIS ---that you only control YOU - and that you are responsible for you and your actions (& you cannot blame HER or OM or anyone else for the choices YOU make)
your life will startle you at first...perhaps even terrify you. But in time you will feel EMPOWERED -- b/c you & you alone will be in charge of your life and your happiness.
And that's how it was always supposed to be.
I'm guessing no as the first scoop of ice cream is always better and more interesting then the last.
I don't see the value or truth in that^^^ "proverb", and probably would dismiss it as shallow, though I know you meant it to be light hearted.
I say Familiarity often breeds COMFORT, not always contempt. When I dated OMs while sep, sure, there was SOME excitement in how the OM might kiss or hold my hand or dance...
but there was also a yearning for the man who KNOWS me better than any other man. Who knows the music I love, the dance move I cannot make ever since my knee gave out, the dance move I LOVE to make, the foods I crave, the films I thick are tacky, versus erotic, ETC I yearned for the man to KNOW me.
I met some good men out there, and that was encouraging b/c I learned that they are out there. I still "have it" and I would not be all alone if we were to divorce. So I'm married today by CHOICE. I was not trapped or stuck....and that makes it a lot sweeter for me.
AND in truth my h and I are very well suited for each other. I learned that a long time ago but dating OMs mostly reinforced that.
And fwiw, I did not sleep with any of them though I was presented with the opportunity and was at times, tempted.
It's complicated, especially for women. Maybe if I'd been drunk and met someone at a bar or on a business trip (& the odds of that are ALMOST nil, but hey, in theory, sure...)
but like most women over 40, it takes a certain level of comfort AND yes -familiarity and Trust, to be alright in that intimate a situation. I've had children, and there are pregnancy stretch marks...you get the picture.
So don't trivialize what it would likely take for her to do that.
And now, moving on...to the rest of your thread...
Thanks for your comment sandi, I'll look forward to any advice you can offer.
Just so I know, so far I've counted FOUR different threads started by you...then abandoned, which is odd and which makes it SO HARD for us to follow your story, or advise you well.
Are there any more out there? And can you stick to just ONE thread?
When it gets too long, you can begin a "sequel" but it'll be much easier for us to follow and help you...okay?
And don't feel judged. When I first came here I didnt' know how to start a thread so I jumped into other people's threads and "hijacked" them, which is a no no.
So, stick to one and until you tell me otherwise OR until I figure it out, I'll assume this is it, okay? Let me know if I'm wrong (Unless I figure it out all by myself!) 
I'm 28 and my wife is 27 we have been together 10 years and married for only 2. I've always felt we had a very healthy relationship, we would do a lot of things together, with friends and with both our families. Shortly after we got married we tried to have kids and found out I have poor sperm and it would be unlikely to conceive naturally. We tried ivf and after that failed we found out that my wife might have issues as well. While we waited for the test results to come back my wife began going out more and started drinking (something she hadn't done while we were trying). About a month ago she told me she no longer loved me and that she was starting to have feelings for someone else. I don't know if she ever said the D word but it is definitely implied. She has since moved out of our bed and into the guest room as well as stopped speaking to me and avoids me as much as possible.
I'm not innocent in all of this I've been an avid gamer my entire life and often would put games before her needs. I realize now I have an addiction and quit immediately after realizing how bad things had gotten.
What would SHE SAY IF SHE WERE HERE and told us, privately, what HER concerns or complaints about the marriage were? Do your best on this occasion to mind read but base it as much as possible, on things she has actually told you.
AND OF THOSE COMPLAINTS --
which ones, if any, would YOU like to work on?I've been trying to follow the rules and just give her space but I feel her drifting further away with
no reason to ever return.
Why do you say that You offer her "no reason to return"? Really? Be fair to her and be fair to yourself.She is very needy
Meaning what? I suggest you read The Five Love Languages by Chapman and tell us what HER love languages are and what YOURS are....do you give love to her in ways she wants/needs to receive it? Some of us miss each other.
My h's love languages (LLs) are a words of affirmation (compliments) and touch. I'm a quality time together and acts of service woman. SO I need from him TIME and GESTURES of love or service (change the oil in my car, fix something)
and he is an MD and lacks time for us and for a lot of time consuming gestures....so we have to work at this more than some.
But I know he loves me in HIS WAY.
Sometimes the gift of love is not "wrapped" how we like it, but it's still a gift. Do you know what I mean?
Here's an Example...I do stand up comedy as an avocation, ie. a passionate hobby. H goes to my shows and he has a good loud laugh - and he laughs at my jokes....which he has heard 300 times.
For ME, that is showing me love. It's not romantic, per se. But I feel it and I appreciate it. It warms my heart.
It's a little example, but do you get it? He is sending me love in a way I DO receive it, and I give him back massages -- things he LOVES getting from me, so I give them to him.
As superficial as the book seemed, it was a good teaching point for us. I highly recommend it and would add ONE caveat...no one love language is morally superior to another. Okay? We simply differ in how we show love AND how we receive it. i receive love the most in some ways that I don't necessarily always give it. Though h loves Getting words of affirmation. he could be more effusive with his words to me, to tell you the truth. He LOVES getting back massages but after 3-4 minutes of giving them, he's down for the count, if you catch my drift...
so I'm not sure if space is the right method or if i should try to
support her and beg her to give us a chance, she is a good person and doesn't want to see me hurt.
No begging, really ever. Supporting her is not the same as begging for another chance. But more on that later....I still have another thread to read! Please tell me if this is the last one!
hey I don't mean to harp about the thread count...i hijacked a lot When i was first here.. I'm really just trying to figure out where to spend my time posting to you most effectively, okay?
Carry on, and do NOT lose hope. AND HECK YES There is hope.
Don't cherry pick the parts of what she said so you can avoid looking at what stings. You'll miss important clues and "intel". SO consider yourself on a reconnaissance mission and you need more information (evidently) so you know what to focus your efforts on.
The parts that sting, USUALLY (not always but usually) mean something is in there worth really studying.
She said she can't understand why you are so blindsided by this. TO ME, that means she has sent you many "SOS"s" and sent red flares into the universe but to no avail.
Why do you believe she said that?
Having an exceptionally rough night so figured i'd post instead of doing something stupid.
Wife never came home last night which i've been slowly coming to terms with, giving space and such. However when she came home today her clothes were caked in mud. She never ever wanted to go camping with me much less ever get dirty, i couldn't even convince her to come to a cottage with sime friends because she was so insecure about going without makeup and pooping. Is it possible she has really changed or is this just a front to impress someone else?
I know it doesn't matter and i can't change her actions but writting this is all that is stopping me from going upstairs and asking about her weekend and where she was.... Also asking why she never wanted to do anything with me.
You said you were "an avid gamer who put gaming ahead of her" and that you were a "crappy husband'....so aren't these^^^ comments also things SHE could say about you?
Don't get mad at me for pointing this out. Be empowered.
YOU CAN CHANGE YOU.
We sat down last night and divided up all the assets, everything went really well.
When we were done and looking at our entire life split up on a single page my W broke down ran to her room and started crying for almost an hour. I took the time to go for run as she had closed her door i assumed she didn't want to see me.
I think I probably should have gone to console her, as that would be a 180. However, it also violates many of the rules.
Poor Sandi...she took the time one day to assemble some GENERAL Guidelines from the books, and then people read them as if they are gospel and apply to ALL and are written in stone. THEY ARE GUIDELINES....now there are people like you who cling to them as if they are a magic potion and if you do each step JUST SO you'll get the magic answer....
they're just well based GENERALIZED gems of advice based on the solution based philosophies of MWD, the author. HAVE YOU READ THE ACTUAL BOOKS? I missed where you answered that question...but you cannot skimp on this or use the "Study guide" in lieu of the real thing. Read the dang books.
and in there, in her assembled guidelines WE like to call "newbie rules" she even says NOT all of these apply to all situations. Use your best judgement.
Often in our relationship I would simply ignore her when she would cry, I know it was wrong
THEN DO NOT DO IT ANYMORE. Period.
but when it was almost a daily occurrence and after so many years of trying to console her, I just became desensitized to it.
= You stopped caring or putting effort into it...Wow, ouch...how lonely for her.
I think I'm going to break DBing and go for a hail mary pass. Time has run out and when she is gone in a week it's all over anyway.
Stop and think. You've rushed thru this so fast and in such a fragmented way I cannot even tell if you have read the books AND talked to a DB coach ----or just thought you "might" -- or what.
But SEE MY TIMELINE and SLOW DOWN. What is the rush???!! I was here for 2 YEARS and didn't freak and we had kids so there was MORE fear and pressure on me...
come on...and PS, outside of football, wth is a Hail Mary pass in this? You are alarming me
Thanks again bdub, i beat the snot out of my pillow last night and it did help relieve a lot of the anger and stress. I'll try the nail thing tonight, that sounds like a great and entertaining stress reliever.
Just some updates/journaling
We met with the real estate agent yesterday about listing the house. W seemed noticeably upset about having to sell I think she was really hoping i would decide to keep it. I asked for 24 hours to make my decision in hopes W will come around. Real estate agent expects the house to sell quickly within 2 weeks, it's going to move really fast when i give the green light.
So, SLOW IT DOWN....good grief, you do have the right to say you want to look into seeing if you can refinance (or buy her out or whatever and STALL for a bit)...
I tried to act cool and collected with the house sale and kept my emotions out of it. When W asked how I was doing with it I simply said "I love the house and don't want to sell but I can't reasonably keep it"
Next time stop the part about "BUT" b/c that usually negates and contradicts whatever you said just before. Keep that in mind btw.
, I then went to watch tv. I'm not sure how to handle 180s in this situation, on one hand my past self would have done the same thing become emotionally unattached to the situation and gone off to distract myself from the issue, on the other hand i can't become an emotional train wreck and start begging her to stay again so we can keep the house.
Must you "beg her to stay" in order to keep the house? You just said you could swing it for awhile...
I've done very well with my 180s and my W has noticed and said "i've seen flashes of the life i always wanted". However she still doesn't want to give us another try, i'm not sure why.
you are "not sure why"???? I can tell you.
BECAUSE SHE FEARS YOU WILL REVERT TO THE OLD NEGLECTFUL H, AS SOON AS SHE TAKES YOU BACK....this is not rocket science. This part is simple and clear to me.
She does seem to still care deeply for me and is concerned about how I'm feeling, I assume it's not out of love but just the concern you would have for a long term friend.
You'd be 100% wrong to "assume it's not out of love"....good grief, you have lived together your whole adult life.
You're saying You really were that lousy a man to her - that she'd want to toss all that, so fast?
Okay if you say so...
I really wish WAW's would think of the pillows before they decide to pull stunts like this.
She just texted me about getting back to the realtor of my answer.
After a few texts back and forth that almost sounded like she might be asking for more time (but not wanting to tell me) i said go a head and tell the realtor we are ready to list. 
she was perhaps giving you a signal...and you didn't want to... what??, RISK her saying "no it's not a signal" -- so YOU crushed HER olive branch, and went ahead to push for the sale?
I can't tell if it's your fear or your wounded pride or both, but you are NOT letting the best part of you make decisions...too bad for both of you
Should I ask W if she thinks there is any chance of R and let her know I would be willing to hold onto the house
if she just wanted some time to work things out on her own?
Tell her YOU would like to "try and keep the house if you can swing it, for several reasons" (be vague at this point so you don't feel too "emotionally exposed")
but it SO sounds as if you want to slow this down and she might too...
don't rush this b/c your afraid of having our ego bruised again. And I say that knowing it has been hurt. But it'd be a lot worse to wonder, forever, if you had let your pride and anger push you and her into a divorce NEITHER of you seems sure of...
Although what kind of a door mat would I be if i allowed her to get a bachelor pad and a hall pass to see what else is out there while keeping me in the wings?
I'm so messed up right now and everything is moving way to quickly[/b].
I am going to get some sleep now but first, I'll post a letter from another walkway wife who wrote to a man here, (Not her h,) to advise him about why HIS WAW wasn't running home as fast as he hoped.
In his situation, he admitted being a pretty lousy h, but he really did change for the better with a lot of hard work. He wondered how his WAS could still look at OM, when HE, her h, had been changing so much.
So this WAW wrote the letter to him to shed some light on how it feels to be a WAW in a marriage in which the h hasn't been too great.
See what you can get out of this letter, okay?
Dig deep and Be Brave...
FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….
When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.
Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.
When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time. And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes,
where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought. Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail.
You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.
And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to "win".Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to "win".
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to
win, you'll put her through hell.
_________________
25yearsmlc thank you so much for your posts and time. You've done more to save my marriage then you can possibly know. I've read DR and had a couple phone sessions with a DB coach and still have no idea what I'm doing.
I'm at work now but I'm going to take a lot of time to reread everything you have written. You are 110% right about her wanting to slow things down, I spoke to her this morning and just said if she ever just needs an ear to listen that I was here (thank you pilot, should have done it last night). She told me everything she was feeling and really opened up, I just validated her and listened intently.
I didn't push the sale of the house, i didn't push the separation agreement, I've told the bare minimum of people, i haven't changed my facebook or twitter, i haven't stopped wearing my ring and I didn't push her to move out. I've just tried to be supportive of her in each of these steps while making sure she knew it wasn't what I wanted but I respected her decision. She's been like speed racer through this and I'm just trying to hold on for dear life. I've made things as comfortable as possible at home so she wouldn't feel she needed to leave, i wasn't pushy, i did all the chores, i never asked where she was when she wouldn't come home, i made sure i was out as much as possible. Now I don't expect anything to change but I've pushed out the realtor until next week.
I think I went into a protection mode while trying to detach.... And this is exactly why,
I sent her a text today and said "I'm going to try and hold onto the house" and got back "lol i was just about to tell you to go ahead and list it, why the change of mind" so i said "i love the house and i'm not ready to let it go" and got back "ok but i want to make sure you're doing it for you and not me"
Want to talk about hulk smashing an olive branch.
I think I went into a protection mode while trying to detach.... And this is exactly why,
I sent her a text today and said "I'm going to try and hold onto the house" and got back "lol i was just about to tell you to go ahead and list it, why the change of mind" so i said "i love the house and i'm not ready to let it go" and got back "ok but i want to make sure you're doing it for you and not me"
Want to talk about hulk smashing an olive branch.
Your expectations are what got to you. Lose those for now. That's NOT the same as saying "lose all hope", it is saying not to await a reaction from her and hinge your happiness that day on what she says in a given moment.
That will become part of your life as you learn to detach. Besides, some detachment inside a WORKING MARRIAGE isn't a bad thing. My h was in a lousy mood last night b/c of a work related issue and was snappy at me and the kids. I reminded him not to take out his understandable work frustrations, on us.
And then I detached.
In your situation, it's imperative that you detach or you'll really go nuts AND push her away. Stop the expectations and you won't be disappointed.
DOWN THE ROAD, you can change this up but for now, have NO expectations.
Have you hired a DB coach yet? They're Godsends, although you may not feel ready.
I say that b/c only TOTAL honesty with them will get you where you need to go.
I do hope you will read over my posts. They were time consuming to write (but are a lot faster to read!)) Try to put yourself in your wife's position sometimes.
IT's good practice for basic empathy and it will remind you how you got here, AND to not take everything she says so literally OR personally. Plus she'll feel more understood by you.
make sense?
Yes you're right about the expectations, after our chat I expected her to be happy i wanted to keep the house for a bit. Today I think she might be extending another olive branch, she sent a text saying "it's alright if you want more time with the house, that she will just get new furniture and we can work out how to split it monetarily. She doesn't want me to rush into anything if i'm not ready". I know I can't afford to keep the house alone and the longer I hold on the harder it becomes to sell, I don't want to get stuck with it until next spring. If I'm going to turn around and sell in a week or two anyway then she should just take what she needs. My emotional and logical minds are so conflicted with each other, 24 could you offer any advice on what to do here? Money is an issue in as far as I can't carry it alone or get stuck with it until spring.
W moved out as planned, she left me many of the essentials and a few pieces for staging for when I'm ready. I've lost all hope of reconciling this now and am going to proceed with listing the house. I know it's muddying the way home for her but I just can't carry it (indefinitely) and going home to our half empty house without her there is just making me sad. Time to let go of my expectations and start moving forward, if she wants to come back to our marriage we'll just need to find a new house.
Sorry to hear that Hoju, I just went through this myself and it [censored]. I never realized how empty a closet could look, almost a metaphor for the hole in my heart.
W moved out as planned, she left me many of the essentials and a few pieces for staging for when I'm ready. I've lost all hope of reconciling this now and am going to proceed with listing the house.
Not sure why you said you could hold onto it for awhile and then retracted. Was it true or not? Anyhow, okay so you're listing it. No need to be melodramatic and say you have "lost all hope". I have 2 family members who divorced and then remarried each other a few years later. So yeah it happens.
A divorce is a piece of paper saying your old marriage died. Sounds as if down deep that is probably a good thing b/c you both wanted a better marriage than what you had, right? Okay keep that in mind.
I know it's muddying the way home for her but I just can't carry it (indefinitely) and going home to our half empty house without her there is just making me sad.
I understand.
Time to let go of my expectations and start moving forward, if she wants to come back to our marriage we'll just need to find a new house.
So what are you doing to work on the issues within You? How are the 180s going? And how about any GAL?
You still need to do all that "work" - b/c it's life enhancing, and you have some self discoveries to make, don't you think?
When we "work" on our lives, we become happier people.
So it's not like you are pitching tar on a hot roof for years, or digging graves in the summer heat...okay?
Be empowered by your ability to change and choose. Make sense?
I can keep the house but it would only be temporary until my savings dry up. Plus I would need to buy W out of her half as she will doubt be looking for money as she wants to travel. Also as I mentioned it doesn't feel (or look) like a home any more and I can't justify buying more furniture for something I will more then likely have to down size. It also reminds me of her making it very difficult to move forward. Along with a whole other slew of issues like distance to work, distance from friends and family and just general upkeep. Without even an estimated timeline I think it's best for me to continue to move forward.
My 180s are going good, I've managed to stay off the computer, been doing all the chores and small tasks around the house. Also been getting out every weekend. I started seeing a therapist and she's been helping me open up emotionally.
I've been doing good on the GAL front too, reconnected in person with my best friends, we would play online together but distance kept us from hanging out I've been making the effort to drive and visit them. Made new friends with some people from work and we've been going out weekly. Joined a hockey and indoor soccer team for the winter and I've started running and working out.
Hoju,
I'm kind of in a similar situation with the house. Will be tough to keep financially for more than a few months. I'm looking into potentially renting it out, since the rental market is really good right now in my area.
Awesome on the hockey and soccer teams! Great exercise and a good way to meet lots of new people. Keep up the good work on the 180's too!
Thanks newleaf, I looked into renting it out myself and decided against it as I would still need to move.
The teams are great but they are both things I've done in the past. The soccer team is my SIL fiancee's team on which she also plays and FIL/MIL often come to watch.... So that's going to be pretty awkward. I was ask nicely (begged) to come play despite them knowing about the split, so I agreed. My hockey team I had originally said no to as I was saving for round #2 of ivf, once W told me she was out I had to work really hard to get back on the team.
180s have been hard, I'm still not sure how to show affection and dependability without being seen as needy, overbearing and fake. I've done 180s on everything I can personally, the rest will be up to her I guess to give me an opportunity to show I've changed in regards to her and her emotions as well. As a "why" man I've found it enlightening learning why she is crying, it's not a plea for attention, it's not to make me feel bad, it's not for pity, it's not because she is hurting, she is crying simply because it feels good to release her emotions. If I only knew that then I would have reacted in a very different manner.
I'm going to ask her to coffee either today or tomorrow and discuss the house sale. I'm not sure how to really go about this though or if there is anyway to show my changes. I don't really need to have her to coffee for this would it be better to just text?
Thanks newleaf, I looked into renting it out myself and decided against it as I would still need to move.
The teams are great but they are both things I've done in the past. The soccer team is my SIL fiancee's team on which she also plays and FIL/MIL often come to watch.... So that's going to be pretty awkward. I was ask nicely (begged) to come play despite them knowing about the split, so I agreed. My hockey team I had originally said no to as I was saving for round #2 of ivf, once W told me she was out I had to work really hard to get back on the team.
180s have been hard, I'm still not sure how to show affection and dependability without being seen as needy, overbearing and fake.
Affection is not solely expressed physically. There are emotionally appealing ways to be affectionate. A fun nickname or flirtatious comment CAN work if it does NOT come across as pursuit. So, How to achieve that?
Usually just don't look as if you are expecting anything in return. Make the comment and laugh, or leave the area, or better yet, both.
Dependability is self explanatory and won't be seen as needy or fake if it's real. Show up when you say you will. KEEP YOUR WORD. Nothing fake about that. And though it's not always easy, it is also Not complicated. It's pretty simple. Only make promises you can and will keep. How Not to be overbearing --
-Since I don't know you or how you show the overbearing parts of your personality, I'm going to make some guesses and suggestions.
Do you raise your voice even when you are not angry? IF so, lower the volume and be self aware of how you sound when you are "excited" or "passionate" b/c to many people, men who raise their voices sound intimidating or angry sen when they are not.
This is also particularly important when the man is large and or the woman is more petite than most. Big guys sound bigger when they are loud, so again, lower the volume and the "intensity" of discussions.
And ASK HER if she can give you some feedback on when you are sounding more even keeled, OR to tell you when to lower the volume/intensity. IOW, ask her for input and feedback about this issue you are working on, NOT to impress her but to help you change.
Can you see the difference^^ there?
I've done 180s on everything I can personally, the rest will be up to her I guess to give me an opportunity to show I've changed in regards to her and her emotions as well.
Not sure what this^^ means. The 180s are changes YOU want to make, and which she values. For instance, being reliable is something I assume you want to be, b/c unreliable men are not appealing as mates or as friends. (Same goes for unreliable women too). Becoming a man of your word is a good thing, she will value it AND you want to become it, correct?
So your 180s are becoming more reliable, & affectionate. Not being overbearing is the trait you want to work on?
When you say "overbearing", would a 3rd party call it you being a bully?
Dig deep on this.^^
Being overbearing is usually a big deal. Don't gloss over it. Examine it honestly, and tell us what you think it means.
Then we can figure out ways to change it so it's measurably achievable, regardless of whether she sees it.
As a "why" man I've found it enlightening learning why she is crying, it's not a plea for attention, it's not to make me feel bad, it's not for pity, it's not because she is hurting, she is crying simply because it feels good to release her emotions. If I only knew that then I would have reacted in a very different manner.
How did you react?
I'm going to ask her to coffee either today or tomorrow and discuss the house sale. I'm not sure how to really go about this though or if there is anyway to show my changes. I don't really need to have her to coffee for this would it be better to just text?
I would Not text a matter of importance like this. And if you are trying to show her a new you, a calmer even keeled you, why on earth would you choose texting for that?
She'll "hear" you yelling in the texts if that is what she is used to or fears.
You want her to SEE & HEAR that you are calmly (and confidently) asking for her input (or is that a show? I mean, if you are already sure of what you are doing then why bother asking her for any input?)
Please tell me you want to be open minded to her comments. She MAY have a valid reason for disagreeing with you, so listen well to that carefully. Her comments may give you a window into her heart. Comments that neither of you could "hear" before, b/c you both had your dukes up.
Just know that IF you are deciding an issue like this all alone, it will look like the same old you...
Hey 24 thanks for dropping in again, I fear I miss lead you and chose my words poorly. I am not overbearing and never have been, I'm quite the opposite and always allowed W a very long leash. I believe the word I was looking for was pursuing or smothering. I am also not loud or a yeller and never have been, through this entire thing I have never even raised my voice. I've always been calm and supportive to her wishes, I did try and convince her to stay a few times and it's always set me back. As for dependability I would avoid going to things with her friends, I never discouraged her from going but I would often rather not. I'm not sure how to 180 that as I'm sure she wont be inviting me anywhere any time soon.
When she would get emotional I would often try and fix the problem or tell her not to worry everything would be fine or not to cry over things she couldn't fix, occasionally I would just ignore it and leave her to work it out herself. All I had to do was tell her it was ok to cry and just to let it out, as someone who doesn't cry and has always viewed it unfavourably I never understood why someone would want to cry.
I would like to work on a way to 180 my affection and dependability but I'm not sure how. She said we felt like roommates and not partners, that we didn't share any interests. She is right that we stopped doing many things together that we used to but we still did quite a bit with family/friends and spent pretty much every night we were both home watching tv or going for a walk together. I would have liked to do more with her as she truly is my best friend but as mentioned I was saving for our second round of ivf. I want to be dependable that when she wants me to go somewhere I will just say yes instead of arguing.
W has already said she is ok with selling, I'm the one who put the breaks on it for a bit as everything has moved too fast. As soon as I give the realtor the green light they will begin showing. I want to meet with her to see and talk to her and just let her know I'm ready to proceed (even though I'm not).
I don't know how to show someone I'm fully committed to them and spending my life trying to make them happy when they want nothing to do with me.
Hey 24 thanks for dropping in again, I fear I miss lead you and chose my words poorly. I am not overbearing and never have been, I'm quite the opposite and always allowed W a very long leash. I believe the word I was looking for was pursuing or smothering. I am also not loud or a yeller and never have been, through this entire thing I have never even raised my voice. I've always been calm and supportive to her wishes, I did try and convince her to stay a few times and it's always set me back. As for dependability I would avoid going to things with her friends, I never discouraged her from going but I would often rather not. I'm not sure how to 180 that as I'm sure she wont be inviting me anywhere any time soon.
When she would get emotional I would often try and fix the problem or tell her not to worry everything would be fine or not to cry over things she couldn't fix, occasionally I would just ignore it and leave her to work it out herself. All I had to do was tell her it was ok to cry and just to let it out, as someone who doesn't cry and has always viewed it unfavourably I never understood why someone would want to cry.
Actually "when she would get emotional", you did NOT try to fix it so much as you left and went for a run.
I just read thru your whole thread (and the others you started). When your wife would break down in tears, You repeatedly told your her that you'd "Be there for her IF she wanted..." and then you'd LEAVE, "for a run"...
So she'd have to seek you out, or run after you to make it crystal clear she wanted support.
To offer support and then leave the area, is NOT to offer support.
Do you get that?
I think showing you her emotions makes you very uncomfortable. Maybe that's something you can discuss with your IC.
And for those times you did offer a "solution", but "all she wanted was to cry", don't be so sure she hoped for nothing from you.
Lots of times we simply want to be listened to and or held/comforted.
And or to be reassured that we're loved, valued, all will be well, etc.
(Not saying to tell her you love her when she files for divorce, but during the marriage, and when she was sad about things other than you).
Also, when you did offer a solution, here's how it MIGHT have sounded to her:....
W: I am upset about 'X' at work...
H: "here is THE solution. Do 'Y'...And 'B' and etc"
(What the Wife heard...)
H: "Here's the obvious answer. Now stop talking about it b/c I fixed it. THE END"....
"Why are you STILL upset? I just fixed it for you, again!"
See how it "sounds" to the person who merely wants to be heard? She just got shut down!
----
I would like to work on a way to 180 my affection and dependability but I'm not sure how. She said we felt like roommates and not partners, that we didn't share any interests.
To me, ^^that sounds as if she did not feel deeply connected to you. And maybe the "roommates" statement was about a lack of passion. That is very likely to happen when one spouse takes up a "solo hobby" like video games, which require no emotional interactions or meaningful communication.
There's no "meaningful connection" going on. And given how you react to her showing real emotion, it sounds like the games were where you felt most comfortable...but she was lonely.
She is right that we stopped doing many things together that we used to but we still did quite a bit with family/friends and spent pretty much every night we were both home watching tv or going for a walk together.
First, most of what you still did, involved other people, not so much you guys as a couple, or alone together.
Second, when you went for walks, was there a lot of talking done?
How'd that make you feel and how did it seem to make her feel?
How do you view that now?
I would have liked to do more with her as she truly is my best friend but as mentioned I was saving for our second round of ivf.
Why is the IVF or money related to not doing much or connecting deeply as a couple? I'm confused. Are you saying what she "really" wanted was for you to spend a ton of money on her?
I want to be dependable that when she wants me to go somewhere I will just say yes instead of arguing.
Sounds good but why did you ever Not want to go? Was there a reason or were you just getting in a rut or were you depressed or what?
W has already said she is ok with selling, I'm the one who put the breaks on it for a bit as everything has moved too fast. As soon as I give the realtor the green light they will begin showing. I want to meet with her to see and talk to her and just let her know I'm ready to proceed (even though I'm not).
I don't know how to show someone I'm fully committed to them and spending my life trying to make them happy when they want nothing to do with me.
2 things to say here
First, don't spend your life "trying to make" anyone happy but yourself. You cannot make another person happy and no one can "make" you happy either.
We are all responsible for our own happiness, and we cannot expect another person to get us there.
You also have to stop asking for guarantees, which never existed in the first place and which don't exist anywhere in real life.
Secondly, you've repeatedly said you can't think of a reason she'd pick YOU over any OM. Why is that?
Why did she marry you in the first place? Who was the man she fell in love with?
Can you go get HIM? Can you be him again, or is that not feasible or desirable?
If not, why not?
And just so I'm sure, you did read at least one of the DB books the whole way through, right?
How is the IC going? And your GAL? The GAL will help you detach and be less needy.
Hopefully the GAL activities are teaching you valuable things and you are getting TOOLS for life that you want. I'd hope your GAL is at least in part, doing things that will aid you in showing more emotions.
Such as anything that gets you talking about something (well, about something other than a game or other "emotion free" topic).
Okay......also Don't forget that I've had family members go all the way thru divorcing - only to remarry their former spouses a few years later.
Also, a third of the divorces filed in this state are never completed. Some of those uncompleted divorces, surely, reconciled.
There's still hope. Til she walks down the aisle and then has a baby with OM, I'd say there probably still is.
ps
in 2006 my sisters each asked me what I thought was going to happen to my m.
I said that "we have about a 10% chance of making it"...and I believed that then.
So, yes there is hope.
I understand what you mean by saying I'm there for support and then leaving. Also you are right about me being uncomfortable with her emotions, I will discuss this with my IC next time I see her. She has been very good with helping to get me to open up more.
We did a lot with other people, alone and as a couple. Our walks were great we would talk and just enjoy each others company, we would also talk while making dinner and car pooling to and from work.
The IVF became an issue financially because I felt like I was carrying the entire burden of it myself. We made similar salaries and always kept our finances separate except for a joint account for shared house hold expenses. When it came time to do the first round of IVF it was all of my savings that were used, same with the down payment on the house and the lump sum pay down towards the house. W kept saying she wanted to help contribute and felt bad for never having any money to help out but she was never willing to ever sacrifice anything from her social calendar.. or those new shoes.. or that new dress.. or those expensive all natural facial cleansers. I was left to sacrifice the things I wanted (new computer, hockey, boys weekend in jersey, snowboard trip, etc.) so as you can imagine when she would ask me to spend a couple hundred dollars to go see a concert I wasn't really into I would protest and say I didn't have the money, she would however still go with her friends.
I feel the OM has a huge edge because W is in love with the honeymoon phase, it's hard to compete with that when someone wont give you the time of day. Also, to many people know now and she has moved out, she has pot committed herself to seeing this through. Also I believe OM is a long time friend, truly coming back would mean not only giving up OM but giving up her friends too as they all run in the same circle.
I believe she fell in love with me because I'm responsible, nice and caring. I've been trying to show her I'm still that guy by not fighting her wishes. However she seems to want to be a care free party girl now and doesn't seem to have any interest in settling down and having kids with a genuinely good guy.
I've read all of DR, I haven't done DB yet. I'm reading 5LL now and will be reading "connecting through yes" next. If you can recommend any other good books I've found a new affinity for reading.
IC is going very well, we are working on my emotions and discovering it's ok to cry and let others see your hurt. GAL is great, I've always had lots of options open I would just skip them to spend time with W. My IC recommended a site where you can meet people to just get together with to do things, I've been active there trying new things.
I met with W for coffee today to discuss the house sale. I feel things went very well, I was cool, calm and collected. While the outcome was not what I would have liked (listing tomorrow) I had zero expectations for the coffee so I wasn't let down.
She seemed sad with her new apartment and when she asked what I'd been up to she seemed really sad at all the stories and activities I've been doing. She mentioned she was flat broke and wasn't able to afford a lawyer for the separation. I considered offering her the money for it but opted not to pay for a divorce I didn't want. I think she is getting a hard dose of reality as she sees all the plans she has getting further and further away from becoming a reality.
Shortly after I left she sent me a text apologizing for something she had said during our talk, it was minor and I didn't even think twice about it. At the end of the text she said "all i meant to say was that I'm proud of you". I thanked her and said not to worry about it at all.
I met with W for coffee today to discuss the house sale. I feel things went very well, I was cool, calm and collected. While the outcome was not what I would have liked (listing tomorrow) I had zero expectations for the coffee so I wasn't let down.
Good insight^^ here. Hard to be let down when you expect nothing eh? Remember that.
She seemed sad with her new apartment and when she asked what I'd been up to she seemed really sad at all the stories and activities I've been doing.
Do Not mind read, but hey, if you are right, then that's not a bad thing. You are having a PMA and being in the moment and doing what you were forced to do, i.e. make the most of a bad situation. Unlike her, you won't have to be saddled with "what if's" like she will be. You are being forced to "Deal with reality" and that is actually an advantage down the road.
You'll see.
She mentioned she was flat broke and wasn't able to afford a lawyer for the separation. I considered offering her the money for it but opted not to pay for a divorce I didn't want.
Offering to pay for the divorce would have been pretty darn crazy. REALLY. I'm glad you stopped yourself. If need be, tell her why. I mean, if she needed money for medicine, it'd be very different. But NO, you don't PAY for your wife's divorce attorney so SHE can divorce you AND ask for money. That's too weird.
I think she is getting a hard dose of reality as she sees all the plans she has getting further and further away from becoming a reality.
Life teaches them lessons, NOT the spouse. Back off and let her smell the old coffee. IF IF IF she reaches out sometime, be warm and upbeat as you are now.
keep the road home, paved and smooth, and move along in YOUR new interesting life. Make sense?
Shortly after I left she sent me a text apologizing for something she had said during our talk, it was minor and I didn't even think twice about it. At the end of the text she said "all i meant to say was that I'm proud of you". I thanked her and said not to worry about it at all.
Interesting and good talk. Glad you two had it. Did you hug when you parted ways? So when will the D be final or do you not know, due to her not paying?
Also, your money arrangements were troubling to me. Sure, you both worked but the way you divided finances and exposes was bound to create resentment and inequality.
I'd revisit that if you do reconcile AND OR when you are in a new R with another woman.....I'm for commingling funds for the most part. IF you each like having SOME money "of your own" that is one thing but most of the money should be in a joint account for "joint purposes" and b/c it promotes transparency and greatly decreases the chances of someone feeling taken advantage of, like you did.
Not saying you were all "right" in it and I bet she'd have a different version. But I am saying there's just not a good reason for treating each other like roommates with finances and to me, that is what you were doing.
ANYHOW, you sound as if you have started to heal.
Good for you. Remember, keep working on you. That way, in the event of a recon you will be more ready for a new, healthier and deeper connection than before.
And she'll have worked on whatever her issues were, we can hope. And the two of you can always avail yourself of other resources in the world, like Retrovaille, (Which I HIGHLY recommend if you consider piecing or reconciling. You must get NEW tools for your lives b/c you both lacked some).
Carry on! We are rooting for you!
Thanks 24 I really appreciate all the advice you've given over the past couple of weeks. I think I have started to heal, her leaving the house has really pushed me out of denial and into acceptance.
As for the divorce I live in Canada and it's required by law to be separated for at least a year before a D can be filed. W has yet to have the lawyers draw up the separation agreement due to cost.
Ironically the money arrangement was done to prevent exactly what happened. The idea was we would pool for mortgage, utilities, taxes, cable, food (dinners out), shared activities, movies, zoo, etc. In the event one of us made more then the other we would split the surplus 50/50, eg when she went on mat leave I would split my salary with her so we were always even. I assumed this would make gift giving more meaningful (like when i took us to the dominican last year instead of buying that new laptop, tv or playstation), it also meant we would never have to check with each other for large spending approvals (like her trip to florida last year) and I thought it might help her to budget better. If she had access to all of our funds we would probably be splitting debts now instead of assets. I was never resentful of her spending, I enjoyed being able to take care of her and saving for our future together, I felt it was a way of showing how much she meant to me. The resentment came after she said she was leaving, looking back now at all i gave up for "us". I will definitely take your advice on just sharing everything in the future since my way clearly didn't work out.
Is there anything I can do now to show her the way home is still smooth if she wants to take it?
Arrrrrggggghhhh so I was doing so well, i had come to terms with the house being up for sale and with W leaving, then tonight hits. Stager was coming tonight and W said she wanted to be here. I went out for drinks with some coworkers after work before stager was suppose to get to the house. I was beaming and buzzing from a few drinks when I got home feeling really good and bam. I walk into the stager finishing up and W sitting on the couch crying. I instantly feel like a bag of crap, how can I be so happy when W is so miserable.
After the stager leaves W sticks around a bit to "clean", which consisted of scraping the varnish off our already spotless floors. I sat next to her and helped scrub the floors telling her it's ok to cry that she will feel better when she lets it all out, things i've learned from my IC
. I told her I was here for her and for once did not make an exit. After a bit of cleaning i invited her to stay for a coffee or something stronger, she declined and still had not yet stopped crying. She mentions about how good I seem to be doing and how she just wants me to be happy, she then mentions again about how proud of me she is. I just continue to try and support her, carry some heavier items to her car, lovingly give her a hug as she was leaving (thanks 24). Then she left to go home, still in tears.
Now I feel aweful for seeming ok when really I'm absolutly dieing inside, I want nothing more then to save my marriage and seeing her reminds me so much of all I've lost. I'm so good with moving forward when she's not around but the second she shows up and shows any emotion I break down and lose it. Just thought I wold post because i'm feeling really down. All and all probably a good night for DB but a bad night for me emotionally.
She is sending mixed signals. I think holding her and comforting her is SORT OF okay...but I'm a bit confused, honestly.
I mean, she did ask for this, right? Sure sure, you helped get her there and all, but YOU did not want this as the result, so I'm a bit taken aback.
What do YOU THINK/FEEL she was trying to say to you, if anything?
I'd like to know before I venture a guess.
She never specifically asked to have the house sold, it was her actions that forced me into it. When I said that I wouldn't be able to keep it she was the one who rushed out and set up the appointments to get it on the market, I asked for more time after the papers had been signed. Then she was upset that I didn't take more time after the papers had been signed and that things were moving quickly.
Any time I've asked if she wanted me to hold onto it for a bit it would always come back as no, quote from her from the last time when I asked for more time "i just want to make sure you didn't ask for more time because of me". Of course I asked for more time because of her, i don't know how that could be any clearer.
I think she is trying to tell me she wants me to keep it but doesn't want to give me false hope for R or obligate herself emotionally to trying or financially if it doesn't sell. I know you told me not to look or ask for guarantees as there are none, but this is my life too and i've already been far to used to make any more decisions that are going to hurt me.
If she wants me to keep it longer all she needs to do is tell me she wants more time, with words, I can't keep mind reading or thinking myself in circles trying to figure out where she is at.
I finished 5LL last night and am pretty sure W fits into the gifts catagory. While packing my stuff a few weeks back I found a pandora charm of a house i had bought for her. She always said she wanted one to commemorate our first home. I would often buy gifts and squirrel them away for another time. I was considering giving it to SIL to pass on to W. I know the rules say no gifts and depending how W takes the gift it could be quite hurtful for her given that the house is up for sale. On the other hand it was something I bought for her ages ago and they are quite expensive so I don't really want to just throw it out. It may also trigger memories of how much I loved her if she takes it well.
Ooh, Hoju. I haven't followed you much but that last post sounds off a danger signal in my head. Vets?
Hoju,
I agree with shakspr on this one.
You could always hold on to it while you are DBing. If things dont work out I am sure you could sell it. If things do work out I am guessing she will appreciate it much more than she will now.
I opted to not give her the charm, thanks guys for keeping me level.
In other news, the house has sold, which lead to a very emotional weekend with W. I tried to be calm and collected for her and just listen to her emotions. I probably pursued a bit trying to let her know that I'm there for her. She seems sad with her decision to leave and has almost become some sort of martyr for the cause now. Not sure where OM stands right now, I think he may have dumped her already? When talking about our relationship she wanted to make sure that I knew she made mistakes too and "one really big mistake that has cost her a lot" (I assume this was OM).
She texted me today after we got the news about the house just saying "are you ok?" I told her "I would be" and asked how she was doing to which she replied "sad". I asked her to lunch and she accepted in her martyr way "don't feel like you have to help me". Regardless lunch was very nice, we work really close and would often go to lunch together so it brough back a lot of good memories.
I also noticed she has started to wear her colada ring again, i had bought this for her about a year after we started dating and she had worn it ever since. It was also the first thing to go when she dropped the bomb on me. Interestingly she was wearing it on her left hand with the point of the heart facing her wrist which per wiki means married. Could just be a coincidence or perhaps she thinks it means something else.
DBing seems to be good and she has definitely warmed up to me but still she seems intent on moving forward, she mentioned going to the lawyer today to drop off the retainer for the separation agreement. Could the path home be too muddy? Could she be unsure of how i feel about her now? Is she just still to hurt to believe that these changes are forever?
Well it's been over a week with pretty much no contact. It hurts to think that she doesn't even care any more and has completely moved on. I have no idea how you vets did this for years.
I don't know if I'm ready to move on but my life feels like it's lost all direction. It feels like I've detached and GAL but unless I find someone else who I could spend the rest of my life with everything I do just feels like a waste of time. Not sure if this feeling last forever or if it's just because I haven't given up hope yet.
On a side note what do I tell people who know that we are separating when they ask why I'm still wearing my ring? Should I even still bother to wear it?
keep making yourself better. in the event that her infatuation for the OM wears off (odds are it will) , then you will be in a good position....if you decide you can take her back.
good luck
Update: the house passed the home inspection and the sale has finalized. I received an email from W (first contact in almost 2 weeks) letting me know she would be by to pick up the remainder of her things that she had left for staging. The email was pleasent but very formal, it hurt to have her address me by my name as silly as that sounds.
She mentioned in her email looking into a new lawyer that one of her friends recommended because the one she had spoken to was taking too long. Anyway she asked if I was ok with her switching lawyer's, I assume because I told her we could split the fees and he's more expensive. What options do I have here other then to just tell her to go ahead with which ever lawyer she wants? I don't know why she is treating this like a 100m dash but it sure isn't leaving any room for R.
Good news is once the stager comes and collects her stuff i should get my cat back so i wont be as lonely... On the other hand I become the crazy old cat guy. While I'm on the topic how should I bridge this to W? I don't think she is going to want to part with the cat.