http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...680#Post2470680H has been texting me now about when are we coming back, where the work car is, if it's fixed, if I want him to come over and dig up to look at the pipes. I've given all short answers. Yes and no. The car I just told him wasn't salvageable. He then started to get shitty saying he wants to know where it's at now so he can go look at it himself and have record for himself that it isn't.
His mother messaged me last night saying he took his OW with him. They said she stood behind him the entire time didn't say hello or goodbye or even talk. He was trying to tell them I keep him from the boys that I can't be civil etc. they all said they stuck up for me that they spent a week with me in May and saw that the boys and I didn't hear from him that entire week except for threats about not returning my vehicles. I guess they said he changed the subject after that. They said they thought it would be a long ride home for the two of them.
We ended up really having a great time away. I had a little sad time Saturday after seeing all the pictures she posted of them kissing and everything. Plus combine that wjth being called to tell me the kitchen was flooded and we had a broken pipe below our newly filed floor. I was a mess. Oh and the washer broke! When it rains it pours. Oh well. We made great memories and laughed a ton. The boys begged me not to make them come home. S7 was talking before bed an said dear god please all I ask you is to please bring my family back together. I won't ask for anything else. Please. It makes me so sad
Anyway. Where do I go from here. I honestly don't know. I have to do something about a car this week. Not sure why H all of the sudden cares about the work car now. If he texts again (I didn't respond to the last text) I think I will say the lawyers can deal with it.
Is this his way of talking to me? I don't know. I try to be pleasant but stand my ground. Not sure how it's working for me. Not well I don't think because he always seems to get an attitude
H continues to text me. Demanding to know about the car, where it is, if it's fixed. My answers aren't good enough for him. I have just said thanks for the offer but I've already got the plumbing taken care of. He then continues to pry about my work car. Why do you care now?
I have been ignoring him but he keeps texting about it. I'm thinking of just saying it's something the lawyers can discuss! Is that okay?
He's probably feeling heat from his lawyer and is trying to position himself.
I think it's ok to direct him to your lawyer.
If it is a legal matter, then no response or a " let the attorneys handle" is sufficient.
Thanks guys.
Any other insight for me
TO,
I don't think (and I'm guessing) this is an attempt to chat if that is what you are asking. I think his L is probably asking him stuff and he wants to see what you respond with at this time. Direct him to your L at this point.
I don't mean trying to chat I just don't get why he's pushing me. Still asking what's wrong wjth the car even if I don't respond he continues to ask.
Gotcha. He's trying to see if you respond and could be baiting you. Ignore:-). Glad you had a great trip!
Thanks!
Ignore and don't direct him to my lawyer? The last 3 texts I got that I haven't replied to for the last 3 hours were
h : where is the car
H: is it wrecked?
h: I need to know for myself what's wrong with the car
Hm... HIS needs are important. RIGHT NOW.
I would ignore. You've given him all the information he needs.
Yes. Direct him to the lawyer.
How do you know the car is not salvageable? He's worried about the financial implications, maybe? If you had it looked at by a mechanic, could you tell him that? If it's a mechanic he trusts, bonus points.
Maybe don't get defensive, but just tell him a bit more specifics about how you have capably handled it? (Unless it is not marital property, then it is none of his business... but I'm guessing it is?)
Just keep your cool!! Especially when he loses his!!!
Ya I've been cool and calm. I told him I already had it looked at and he now wants to go by himself and have it looked at. This is not a marital asset it's in my name
He just sent me a text because I responded to the 3 texts by saying it has leaks everywhere.
H: what's wrong with the car
Me: it is leaking everywhere under the car
H : leaking what?
H (less than 5 minutes later): Instead playing games be a big girl tell me what's wrong with it I've asked plenty of times if you have had it checked out like your saying you should know what's wrong with it so be a big girl Taylor it's not that hard
Do I even respond to this??? I'm wanting to tell him to leave me alone. He didn't care about the car last week when he was on vacation in the keys. Now he cares?? Because he's in town and worried for his own reasons?? Maybe he should grow up and stop posting pictures and doing what he's doing and be a big boy
Someone please tell me how to respond so I don't make a mistake. I'm fed up with his disrespect.
Hi TO,
If you had a mechanic look at it, did he give you a written estimate with all the damage and repairs required as well as a recommendation? If you did scan it and send it to him via email with your lawyer cced. Then direct him to contact your lawyer regarding any further questions or requests.
I found his text to you about being a big girl and not playing games to be condescending. I would say he is baiting you to get into a confrontation. maybe he is looking for something to show his mother that you are as terrible as he described. So staying to the facts and not engaging is your best course of action.
I have to admit that I am wondering why you just can't tell him what is leaking. Men hate it when a woman won't just answer a direct question with an answer. I am also baffled why you can't give him a direct answer.
Maybe he is right and it can be salvaged. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face here.
I agree... and with regards to it being a marital asset or not... the rules are different here, but where I am, i think it would be considered marital property if you used joint money to keep it up, if he drove it, if it was considered "both" of yours to use freely. (A collectible car that someone brought into the marriage and was never used by the other person might reasonably considered an individual asset, for ex).
BUT I am not a lawyer!
I would agree with those who are saying to just answer him. Have you answered us whether the mechanic says it is not salvageable?
We know your H is acting like a jerk. That suxx.... and maybe there is no hope for your M. Who knows. But IMO, I've found that detaching emotionally means treating my H like a business partner, even when I think he is a jerk and deserves to feel bad. Rising above my anger has brought me peace, and that has been more important and satisfying than making him feel bad.
Getting through this with class and dignity is the best revenge, right?
Considering you are so concerned about legal expenses, not sure why this needs to be addressed through L. I feel like I'm missing something? (and I've followed your sitch closely).
I say ignore. Whatever response you give him more than likely will be used against you. Just my 2cents.
I did tell him it was leaking everywhere and I don't know where or what it's leaking. I answered to the best of my knowledge. The reason I don't feel he deserves more information is because when I asked for help last week when we were stranded with one car while I had to work and the boys were stuck at home having to have my friends pick them up for basketball he didn't care to help. He told me it was my fault for not taking care of it and that it was my problem not his.
Claire the car was purchased with no marital money and he hasn't invested anything into it but him vesting an interest now may be why so he has say so to it. Who knows
I have no problem giving him business like info but I already told him what I know. He's just mad I'm taking more than 5 minutes to respond. I'm taking care of a very very ill child I do not have my phone out 247 and my lawyer said any judge will support that.
My battle is him thinking I am at his beckon call. He didn't care last week when he was on vacation so now he can go through his lawyer. He wants it towed to his work but yet didn't give me 1$ In over 6 weeks. Sorry just venting. I am done responding. He just goes round and round my answers aren't good enough he keeps telling me I'm lying and I probably have a fake mechanic making up stuff. I just said I don't know what you're talking about it has multiple oil and trans leaks and is more to fix than it's worth. Not sure what else to say beyond that. I haven't even gotten a bill. And it's his friends shop! But they aren't talking to him bc of everything they don't agree with what he's doing and said they haven't heard from him in months
Then tell him that you are doing as he suggested last week and are taking care of it yourself and don't want OR need his help OR advice and to leave you alone.
(That's what "big girls" do.)
He totally suxx. Seriously. And I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this-- all of it-- and that your S is sick.
I say this with great compassion, T0. Vent away here. We are listening! But it sounds a little bit like you are responding to him out of emotion. And that is not good for YOU. You have come such a long way.
So what if he texts you a million times.
"I'm sorry I'm just now seeing your messages. S is sick tonight so I was tending to him. The mechanic I went to is the one you have always trusted. He told me that while the leaks are technically fixable, it will cost more than the car is worth. It doesn't seem financially prudent to do that...."
The "he doesn't deserve... because he didn't help last week" response is what strikes me.
Imagine if you responded calmly and clearly to his texts (not immediately, but without emotion and without escalating, and without taking any bait (about lying, etc). Defuse. Defuse. Defuse. If the only thing it brings you is peace, well that is a lot, right? Quit trying to exact revenge. That is not in YOUR best interest for your own well-being and state of mind.
You have come a really long way! Hang in there. Deep breaths!!
.
Thank you Claire. If I post the conversation could you critique me on things I could have handled better?
And sorry for the confusion my son isn't sick. I work in the pediatric ICU. I have a pt on cardiac bypass
I do have a lot of anger. I'm working on letting go of that. I have gotten better about not crying and over reacting to his bait but it seems when I take my time to not respond so that it is not emotional he continues to chip away. Like the one text he sent asking what was wrong. Less than 5 minutes later he sends the be a big girl text. He doesn't even give me a chance to respond. That's the part that irritates me that I need to work on. But I am not at his beckon call. He was not there for us last week and cared less that the car was broken because he was on. His vacation and didn't want to deal with it. He is so up and down.
Oh, i imagine that must be an intensely emotional job. I'm sure getting texts like these don't help ease the stress of work. :-(
Something I've tried (with my H, family, friends, etc) who are pi $$ ing me off is to take a deep breath and mutter a choice word to myself under my breath. You could use "jerk", or something more R-rated. And then repeat my mantra to myself. (What is yours??)
You could also respond simply (in the moment or later), "I am working, so I am not able to discuss this with you now."
He is going to do and say and text whatever the F he will. So what. You can only control how you respond.
What if you laughed to yourself when you saw the "big girl" text. His words don't define you! You are helping to save a baby's life! And raising your kids practically alone! And, well, we all know how mature and responsible HE is being. Ha ha. Say (to yourself), "Why yes, (choice word H), I AM a big girl, and you are a (choice word)!!!
And then go 'bout your bizniz with a smile on your face.
Why let HIS words get to you so much? Why give him so much power? He doesn't deserve that!
((Hugs))
^^^^
Claire that response is awesome!
TO,
I didn't realize you were at work. Claire is spot on with her advice. Think of yourself as Switzerland-neutral. You've done a great job giving businesslike responses.
Unfortunately, when it comes to D, it IS a business discussion. Always take the high road. However, sometimes you've given all the info have and there is nothing else to discuss.
Hang in there! You are doing great:-)
You really are doing great. I love how he tells you to be a big girl, which, in itself is such an adolescent child's comment. Oh, the irony. I'm going by the 2-3 hour rule for text responses unless they're dire (and they never are). This way, I can drown myself in work or my daughter and calm down from his words before responding. Also, I look very unavailable. It's helpful. Hang in there!
Thank you ladies
I have so much work to do on me and improvement on things I can do better. I just need to continue to learn from all these interactions use them as learning experiences on how to avoid this happening (on my part at least) again.
This is how I left it.
H: so the car isn't salvageable?? What did the mechanic say was wrong with the car and who'd you take it to
Me: It was not per the mechanic's recommendation but I still have to pay for it and figure out what to do with it. I can go ahead and just fax you a copy of everything when I get it then you can have the report on paper.
H: If the mechanic has already looked at it he should have a work order already written up. Have him fax that to me by tomorrow morning. I'll work on getting the parts that it needs.
H: And dont try to get stupid by trying to get a friend to write something up I'm not that stupid
Me: I asked and was told they think it is oil and trans fluid but the bottom of the car is covered everywhere they are having a hard time decifering the two without repairing some of the leaks to figure it out.
Me: I will fax the info and your lawyer when I get it.
H: I don't understand why it's such a big deal and why you can't tell me where the car is unless your trying to be sneaky and hide something
Me: there is nothing to hide. You told me it was my fault and my problem so I took the steps needed to fix it to the best of my ability.
Me : as soon as I get the papers I will forward everythjng
H: If the mechanic looked at it it's already available so don't act like you don't have it
H: I'd also like to get it towed back here get a second opinion I'll pay for it
I never responded. I honestly have no paper work. I haven't even gotten a bill or anything. Like I said it's friends that are doing it. Actually they are H friends. But they said they haven't talked to H in months and one of them deleted him off fb after seeing all the nonsense he was posting.
I'm open to all criticism. Trying to better myself for whatever relationship there may be in the future. I def don't want a relationship with that man though.
And Claire you are so right. I do mutter words under my breath lol. I just don't like when he keeps egging me on. Maybe tomorrow or the next time he tries t talk to me I could just randomly say something like, hey I just want to let you know I don't always have my phone on me but I will get back to you it just may take me a bit. If it's an emergency or something you need quickly just call me.
H: so the car isn't salvageable?? What did the mechanic say was wrong with the car and who'd you take it to
Me: It was not per the mechanic's recommendation but I still have to pay for it and figure out what to do with it. I can go ahead and just fax you a copy of everything when I get it then you can have the report on paper.
You stayed calm, but didn't really answer his question. Is it possible he feels you are making a quick (rash) decision-- to get rid of the car-- based on inexperience and lack of knowledge about it? Kind of like how my dad can look at something that I would toss in the garbage as "broken" and be able to fix it right up. Does your H have experience with cars? Was this an issue in your M? (Dismissing something that he had more experience than you?)
((And by the way, I am not making judgements or assumptions at all-- I am just raising questions for you to think about to help you reflect/move forward. I hope you don't take offense at anything!))
H: If the mechanic has already looked at it he should have a work order already written up. Have him fax that to me by tomorrow morning. I'll work on getting the parts that it needs.
He's trying to be helpful!
H: And dont try to get stupid by trying to get a friend to write something up I'm not that stupid
and obnoxious, too. ick.
Me: I asked and was told they think it is oil and trans fluid but the bottom of the car is covered everywhere they are having a hard time decifering the two without repairing some of the leaks to figure it out.
Me: I will fax the info and your lawyer when I get it.
Ok. you gave him some more specific info and tried to calmly get out of the conversation.
H: I don't understand why it's such a big deal and why you can't tell me where the car is unless your trying to be sneaky and hide something
Man, he does this thing where he says something totally reasonable, and then in the next instant says something so icky. I can see why it would be exasperating for you!
Me: there is nothing to hide. You told me it was my fault and my problem so I took the steps needed to fix it to the best of my ability.
I think here is where you took the bait. If you re-read this part, can you see anything about your response that you might have been better off saying differently, or not at all?
H: If the mechanic looked at it it's already available so don't act like you don't have it
H: I'd also like to get it towed back here get a second opinion I'll pay for it
Here he is trying to be helpful again (and icky at the same time). He offered to pay to have it towed so he could get a 2nd opinion. I know he has a terrible track record for returning your vehicles, so I could understand you'd be hesitant!
What if you instead told him you'd get a 2nd opinion if he was willing to pay for it?
I don't know if my advice is useful or not. But thinking about someone else' sitch is distracting me from mine, which is helpful tonight. Thank you!
Claire. I'm sorry about your sitch, thank you for your insight. It really is so helpful to have all of you here because you guys are objective and not biased. Everyone in my life is so angry with him for how he treats us.
And to answer some of your questions he was always in charge of taking care of the cars. That's why last week I pointed out it really hurt me when I told him about it he didn't want to help. I've always counted on him to take care of the vehicles and he always did willingly. I just don't like his attitude of on 'his time'. That's the really frustrating part is last week it was 'it's not my problem' but now he wants me to jump through hoops for him.
I shouldn't have put the comment about he told me it was my problem. Even though it's right. I need to stop worrying about being right and just be business like no matter how hard he stabs. I really feel like part of him is trying to see if I'm changing (not to work things out but just because) especially since he said to me last week clearly you haven't changed at all.
I am by no means willing to give him the car for a second opinion. Like you said with his track record no way and especially since he hacked into my bank account while I was out of town and wiped out my personal savings from my inheritance money. So no way on that one!'
I do not take offense to anything you say. And as I've said in the past you all will have to excuse my responses. I type on my iphone so it can get jumbled and scattered. Plus my mind is usually going a mile a minute with emotion and my fingers can't keep up
I know he has a terrible track record for returning your vehicles, so I could understand you'd be hesitant!
Just thinking out loud... and T0324 don't do this unless others chime in:
But I kind of feel the above quote is the big issue, it is fair to say this must be a worry if you get him involved on the vehicle.
Is there a way to reasonably communicate that? Similar in spirit to "setting a boundary"?
For example: H I know vehicles are your expertise, and you have always been very good at it. But I am having a tough time wanting to accept your help, as I find it difficult to know what would happen if I gave you access to the car.
again, just a thought.
Wounded - you bring up a great point as I thought about saying something similar however I'm sure if I sent it last night I probably wouldn't have said it so neutrally lol
And I totally trust your advice but maybe we could get some more opinions.
They are trying to set mediation up the very beginning of august now so a few weeks sooner. Unfortunately the only days that work for them I'm working. I work 4 days a week and usually it's weekdays so it's next to impossible to find an open day. So I offered the last week of august since my schedule isn't made yet. I am so nervous but I wonder if it would be better for me to be in the same room as him. I know my emotions so I know it is best for me not to talk to him afterward and go our separate ways
I'm sad today and reading Claire's new post made me realize I am jealous of those with positive outcomes lately. So happy for them but jealous. I made many mistakes the first 2 months. But what have I seen in the last 3 months. Nada. No glimmer of any positive. Just more public sharing with his GF. More outward showing of affection. More sh*t talking about me to every and anyone he can. Less effort to see the kids, ugh. I'm not ready to call it quits but it's so hard when you know the other person has moved on
And I totally trust your advice but maybe we could get some more opinions.
I actually don't trust my advice on that either.... thats why some other input will be great.
I made many mistakes the first 2 months. But what have I seen in the last 3 months. Nada. No glimmer of any positive. Just more public sharing with his GF. More outward showing of affection. More sh*t talking about me to every and anyone he can.
Don't you see the correlation? Once you let go, and started to detach... he NOTICED. Once he noticed, there seem to have been a significant uptick in attempts to: bait you, start an argument, be difficult, etc.
The pics/PDA's/lashing out are his way of dealing with you letting go.
I can't say it is a good thing, but it is not bad.
I'm not ready to call it quits but it's so hard when you know the other person has moved on
Based on what you have told us his "moved on" is starting to crumble a bit... seems pressure from his L, his boss/landlord, etc. And he is doing nothing to alleviate that pressure, or deal with his own issues. Be patient and keep the focus on you.
The aliens still have him in the fog.... but the aliens are starting to smell his stink.
I hope that's true. I have missed your advice the last few days. I thought you forgot about me! Ha
I'm just going to continue my best and lean on you all to save me from myself
Dealing more with angry H. He sent me a text this morning saying 'you work today' (can you please have a text that is formulated like English lol!)
I just said yes
I assume the boys are home. Who knows I am at work. well he just shows up and they aren't there. Sends me a text
H : guess I'll never be seeing the boys anymore
Me: why? Sorry you feel that way not sure why
H: Well you know I come see them nights you work and guess what no body's home
Me : Just shoot me a text with what time you'll be over so I can make sure there around. You know I work in an ICU and things can get hectic. the boys do things during the day and are probably at the basketball courts or something
H: whatever I am so done playing games with you. I'm done
Me: we really need to work on our communication so this doesn't happen
H: no you know I see them the days you work that's what the problem is
Me: H, Just because you ask if I'm working doesn't mean I know you're coming over. There have been nights I send you texts and you say you are working late or doing other things. I assumed the boys were home. I'm sorry. Just call me in the future and I'm sure we can easily fix the problem.
H: Yes the days you pick up extra days to work sometimes I can not come.when you give me your schedule I can plan my work week around yours instead of me asking you everyday if your working
H: Just like communication like you taking the kids out of state with out even saying a word to me where they were going
H: and I can't even take them down the street without telling you when I come to the house without you being a bitch and getting pissy.
I haven't responded. My L is the one that told me not to tell H about where we were going. She was afraid he would try to take the vehicles from my house while nobody was home. I did send him a courtesy text saying hey the boys won't be at basketball we are going out of town for a couple days he just said oh okay. Never asked anything else.
Any advice, do I respond? I'm trying not to get trapped here
What would you respond with? I can't even tell what he wants.
I'm sorry that's how he's treating you.
I ended up saying
Me: Would you like me to call when I get done giving report and have them meet you somewhere. Then you can just bring them home a bit later since it's summer I usually let them stay up til 930-10 anyway
H: Don't even worry about by the time I meet them I will have bring them rite back I will see them Tomorrow and I should be moving into my place end ofvthis week beg of next then you better believe we WILL be discussing what nights there going to be with me
Me: okay. My L has been trying to get in touch with yours regarding this.
H: I can't wait for mediation. I have never looked forward to something so much
H: can't wait to be done with you
H: Need set a day where I can come get rest my things when the boys are not there so I can get this over with.
I never responded. I know icant right now. I'm too upset
I'm really sorry he's treating you that way.
He's not responding to anything but his own feelings. Not one other thing about this situation seems to be penetrating. Not even his own L. So it really looks like you shouldn't take any of this personally. He's not responding to you at all, just the mess in his head. I'm sorry.
Honestly, it reads like he's having some kind of breakdown. It's definitely not you. Hang in there. You're strong and we're all here for you.
((big hugs, T0)) You are strong! Stronger than him, that's for sure.
(Do you have a mantra, yet? Mine is "I am confident, capable and strong". You are welcome to use it if you wish! Pour yourself a glass of wine, put on something funny (or weepy, your choice... or how about Thelma and Louise?), and repeat your mantra over and over and over and over. THAT is the voice you need to be hearing in your head! Not his icky one.
Rooting for you.
(P.S... you may take some satisfaction that if you do the work on yourself, you may just end up peaceful and happy... and maybe even married! My MIL ended up with a wonderful 2nd H who treats her and her kids like gold. And your H probably won't find the happiness he is looking for, because he's not looking in the right place. He's certainly not going to find it in an 18 year old's pants! Ha.
Hang in there. Deep breaths.
TO,
I'm sorry your h is being this way. I promise I received texts just like this until I stopped engaging. You cannot have a meaningful conversation via text. You just can't. Our sitches have so many similarities.
Your h is very angry and hurt. I'll postulate here and say he thinks you are the reason for his anger and pain. Every m has issues. They just do. I'm not sure off the top of my head what some of the issues were in your m, although I'm sure they were not 100% your fault. Yes, DBing focuses only on you because thats what you can control. However, your h is very venomous. My announced on Twitter that the reason divorce was so expensive is because it was worth it. He also finally started seeing an IC to discuss how horrible I was to him.
My point is that text exchange was way too long. He wants to bait you and spew at you. Don't engage. You should have simply said. "I'm at work and I didn't know you were coming by. I'm sorry you didn't see the boys. Yes, let's set a schedule." Something to that effect. Ignore the how excited he is about divorcing you and all that other caca. Do not engage. Take a deep breath and trust me, I know how difficult it can be to take the high road when you are dealing with someone who is behaving like a class A a$$hat and your children are hurting. NEVER take the bait. And much of his words to you are just that-bait. To see if you engage, year him down, etc so he can say "she's the most evil wench in the world" so he can justify his actions.
Don't respond to the last text. I waited 4 days to respond to one that was a giant worm on a fishing hook. Regardless of what happens, please know this. Kml posted on my thread something I've always know but have a difficult time articulating. She said marriage and kids are difficult and that some people are too weak to handle it. They run. Please know that you are the rock for your boys and even if you get a D, if you truly want to reconcile that possibility is there. It's your decision. However , for now, your h is in a place that I wouldn't want to be in for anything in this world. So let him deal with that and drop the rope. Doesn't mean you don't have hope- just let him deal with his caca.
Sending you a hug. I'm sorry this was the equivalent of GB's version of " Crime and Punishment". Ignore my typos:-)
Had a huge cry session in an empty room at work with a friend. She wants me to send him a text saying thank you for your hurtful words. I am a humantoo and can only take so much. Sorry you feel that way.
I just don't get how he can act like this. He has never talked to me about us. Nothing. And he is so happy to be done with me. It is so freaking hurtful.
I am a mess.
Reread all the caring, supportive words we shared with you. Believe THOSE. You know they're true because we hear you when you try to communicate.
AND, think of all those scared, hurting parents and kids who rely on you. That is true too. Believe those.
Now think of your boys. That's the truest truth there is.
None of that has anything to do with your H's venom.
^^^Ditto.
Don't reply to him. Don't reply!! Vent here. Or sit in your car and scream a reply to him at the top of your lungs (but just to yourself!)
When I say this forum has been a lifeline for me, I MEAN IT. Friends, good friends who care about me and want me to be happy, would not have gotten me to the place I am. DB is for YOU. And perhaps, in your situation, more than it is for your M.
You are mess? Ok. Join the club! He is MORE of a mess! Think about it, you wouldn't want to be him, would you? Draw strength from the resilience you have shown, the way you've been able to be there for your boys, take them on vacation, handle all the sh!t that has been thrown at you. You are amazing.
Hang in there.
TO,
So sorry your H has misplaced his compassion and his decency.
I agree, he is trying to bait you so he can point to what a witch he's escaping.
We know that's not true and so do you.
How can he do this?
Who knows?
They can, and they do.
They're angry and confused and since they know it's not their fault, it's got to be somebody else's.
You're a convenient target.
And even he probably wouldn't have the guts to treat anyone who didn't love him this way.
Take your time responding and only if necessary at this point.
He's like a viper in a crevice. Why would you stick your hand in there?
Find a way around him!
Hang in there, sweetie!
-----GGG
Ya I've been cool and calm. I told him I already had it looked at and he now wants to go by himself and have it looked at. This is not a marital asset it's in my name
Then what's the hold up? Why not let him go look?
If it's actually secretly worth something and he wants it listed as an asset,but you know it's wrecked, he'll gain nothing. But you'll have more credibility.
And if He can fix it or help arrange something, great. I see no harm in letting him look and frankly it's a tad odd looking (to him I bet) that you are so mum about it.
Why the mystery? Just let him go look and if you are really not okay with that for some reason, ask your L if there is a strategic reason for NOT letting him go look.
Take the weirdness out of this equation by behaving as healthy as possible, and it'll look a bit more detached too.
For most financial matters and all custody issues that you do not totally agree on, refer him to your L. That's what we exist for.
Keep the emotions separate from the business side of this. It really helps and it also keeps the road home, a little more paved.
Not saying you should or must or will reconcile, but at least YOU won't be adding an obstacle to it.
make sense?
Thank you Claire. If I post the conversation could you critique me on things I could have handled better?
And sorry for the confusion my son isn't sick. I work in the pediatric ICU. I have a pt on cardiac bypass
I do have a lot of anger. I'm working on letting go of that.
^^^That's good news b/c showing anger to them, really does fuel their justifications for leaving.
Maybe say "H, you barely gave me 5 minutes to respond before you began to berate me for not jumping fast enough to answer your text. There was no cause for that. Besides, this is the same car you told me to handle myself last week.
In any event, feel free to check it out. I took it to the X mechanic you suggested. That's where it is and he says it cost more to fix than the car is worth. I hope you get a different answer."
Do not trouble yourself to send it over but make it available if he wants to check it out. Yes it may well be an asset in his mind but the more trouble HE takes to learn that you are telling the truth, the better as far as I'm concerned.
That's my .02
I have gotten better about not crying and over reacting to his bait but it seems when I take my time to not respond so that it is not emotional he continues to chip away. Like the one text he sent asking what was wrong. Less than 5 minutes later he sends the be a big girl text. He doesn't even give me a chance to respond.
That's the part that irritates me that I need to work on. But I am not at his beckon call. He was not there for us last week and cared less that the car was broken because he was on. His vacation and didn't want to deal with it. He is so up and down.
Don't respond to that^^ b/c that's not about the car. Don't pile on or confuse the issues. HE already does that enough. And fwiw, property in your name does NOT mean it's not a marital asset. Not sure if you are in a community property state but if you are, any property acquired during the marriage is considered marital WITH Some exceptions. (Such as inheritances and things you bought with separate funds that were never inside the marriage and were not commingled with marital funds).
Just so you know.
.
Thank you all for your words and support. I do agree that H is very angry GB and that he believes it is me that is the reason for his unhappiness. He blames eveything on me and his life would be perfect if it weren't for me
25 - thank you for stopping by. The reason the car issue is a big deal for me is because I do not trust him one bit. He has 2 care in my name only that are premarital that I'm paying insurance on and he is hiding them and won't return them. He also hacked into my personal savings and took $$$$$ out while the boys and I were on vacation. In his current state of mind he cannot be trusted. He has already done thing as a result of me not protecting myself and the boys. Afraid when he knows where the car is he will go get it towed to his work and then I'll have to pay court fees to get that back too. That's my rationale on that at least.
Where do I go from here? Stay silent and say nothing? I just don't know how to handle him anymore and I don't understand why he's starting this with me the last 2 nights. He's pretty much left me alone for the last few weeks if not longer
And 25 - I don't know how the road home is smooth especially with this constant interaction always being negative. Should I offer him later this week to go look at the car? I want to do what's right legally and DB'ing which don't seem to always go hand in hand. I will be hopefully getting one of the vehicles back soon which will be a HUGE issue.
I was reading through Trains threads and the way she placed boundaries with her H wonders if I should be placing boundaries on how he talks to me, etc
First off, boundaries are what you place on YOURSELF, not on others. Telling others what they can do is making demands of them.
If you won't tolerate being berated, then you make yourself "absent" when it happens. You leave the room, or you say "I can't talk to you now. Call me when you are in a better frame of mind." AND HANG UP.
It may seem like semantics but it's a bit clearer and it's less about them, and what you want from them, and more about YOU. Thank you all for your words and support. I do agree that H is very angry GB and that he believes it is me that is the reason for his unhappiness. He blames eveything on me and his life would be perfect if it weren't for me
No offense, but this^^^ is not relevant at this time or for this issue.
25 - thank you for stopping by. The reason the car issue is a big deal for me is because I do not trust him one bit.
I get that. But you can probably minimize your risk without cutting him off and if not, then we'll deal with that.He has 2 care in my name only that are premarital that I'm paying insurance on and he is
hiding them and won't return them.
This is 100% a LEGAL issue your L must know about and react to, unless we are talking about cars worth less than 3 hours of a lawyer's time. It's also odd and it's also probably illegal behavior. You may even save money by calling the police about this but ask your lawyer first, and soon.
No more dickering or asking; just handling the legal issue in the legal arena.
.He also hacked into my personal savings and took $$$$$ out while the boys and I were on vacation.
Tell your lawyer. Now.
Is this at all provable? Is it YOUR own money or is it marital? If it's yours then tell your L and even if not, separate your money and protect it ASAP. These are his children too, right?
In his current state of mind he cannot be trusted. He has already done thing as a result of me not protecting myself and the boys.
Then you absolutely must protect yourself. Have you?
Afraid when he knows where the car is he will go get it towed to his work and then I'll have to pay court fees to get that back too. That's my rationale on that at least.
I hear you. But If the car is totaled, then why would you care about having it towed somewhere or having him keep it? Is it not worthless? I'm being serious.
Maybe someone could still charge you for "storage" when it's there, but I'm thinking the guy who gets it towed there ought to be the one on record for it---your h.
Maybe you can stipulate in your text (which you'll keep copies of) that you expect him to assume responsibility for its' storage in the event that he removes it.
Calmly, of course. As if you expect him to be of use, b/c it's better to give him something to live up to, than to live down. Even jerks crave being admired and seen as noble.
Where do I go from here? Stay silent and say nothing? I just don't know how to handle him anymore and I don't understand why he's starting this with me the last 2 nights. He's pretty much left me alone for the last few weeks if not longer
I didn't know about the other cars.
He's either feigning interest to make himself look good OR he is suspicious that it's worth more than you are saying. But given his history with your other cars, your hesitance is understandable. Does he fix cars?
Have you asked about the other cars? I MIGHT be tempted to link this in a way like this:
1) "H, You have taken and hidden 2 cars of mine already. This one is worthless -so If you take and hide this one too, it's your dime, not mine."
OR
2) "Unlike the other 2 cars of mine you took, this one is worthless. You ought to consider that before you commit another theft. To me it's not worth the penalty, but I've given up trying to understand or appease you. But hey, have at it, maybe you'll be able to fix it." And don't engage more. Make it all about the car(s).
And 25 - I don't know how the road home is smooth especially with this constant interaction always being negative.
It's not smooth, not by a long shot. I'm just saying, let the bumps all be from HIM, not you.
That way, you won't have any regrets down the road or when your kids are older, which is huge.
Secondly, on the off chance he'll ever truly reflect & look within, you'll have increased the odds that he'll regret HIS own behavior and recall you behaving with dignity and strength, in the face of betrayal and adversity.
I highly doubt his OW will ever match up to that, or even be tested much. But if you are fuming at him each time you interact, however justified, that is what he'll recall...and it won't help you.
Should I offer him later this week to go look at the car? I want to do what's right [b]legally and DB'ing which don't seem to always go hand in hand.
DBing is NOT about giving up legal rights. On the surface I see your point but True DBing never asks you to give something up, but it CAN sometimes support the concept of waiting, or not striking first legally.
But what does that COST you legally, really? Not a significant amount over time b/c courts will note theft.
OTOH, can you ever be screwed over by a spouse who steals from you, and could DBing stop you from seeing that happening?
I think you might miss a terrible action of a WAS- but is that really the problem of DBing or just of us trusting someone a bit too much for a bit too long?
I think MWD and this site are pretty conscious of doing right by our kids and to protect ourselves. I know my h's MLC cost us a fortune but so did my not working while he was gone ("why have the kids lose both parents?", was the question my MC asked of me). I could blame it all on my h but that serves no purpose and it absolves me of any responsibility for choices I made.
And that's not adult of me. Anyhow, moving on...
I will be hopefully getting one of the vehicles back soon which will be a HUGE issue.
[/b]
it's a VERY HUGE issue.
I hope your lawyer is working on this NOW.
Seriously, It's crucial he NOT take marital assets. Any time he does something that interferes with the mobility of you or the kids, it's especially harmful and possibly dangerous to them or you.
Bring that up. "I can't take the kids to the doctor/hospital/school b/c HE has MY cars and HE IS HIDING THEM!"....
that also screams "weirdo control nut" about your h to, the court.
But none of this will matter if you do not communicate it to your L.
I am often amazed at what spouses do NOT tell their attorneys, and yet they get mad that nothing was done about it. Or they say "I TOLD my L..." as if that is enough. Tell them and then follow up with what they ask of you. They can't help you if you can't help them.
Make sense?
I was reading through Trains threads and the way she placed boundaries with her H wonders if I should be placing boundaries on how he talks to me, etc
See what I said at the top regarding boundaries (they are for US, not others).
Everyone in your world needs to speak & treat you with common courtesy. Maybe a raised voice now and then can be lowered, but truly, no one ought to be able to yell at you, berate you, chew you out, or curse at you more than once.
A BOSS who does that...well, if I weren't starving, or in the military, I'd probably quit my job if a boss yelled at me or cursed.
I sure as heck would not tolerate it from anyone else in my life, let alone my kids or spouse.
Sure, we all get anxious and at times, we all can lose our tempers now and then. But a pattern of abusive speech IS -- ABUSE, by definition. And the abuse victim plays a role in repeated abuse; they enable it or they end it. (Or they ignore it, which is a form of enabling).
So make your choice and stick with it. Are you a survivor of past abuse, or a victim? That really is your choice.
Call your L and let the cards fall where they fall. Sometimes all you can do is right by your kids, and that will have to be enough.
Years down the road, like I said, you won't have regrets. That is no small feat.
And if he ever really digs deep at all, he'll see what he lost. But that's not your problem or your concern.
If he never looks within, that means he lives a shallow, unexamined life.
Socrates said "An unexamined life is not worth living."
But YOU will live a full life. YOU know this b/c you control it.
Where do I go from here? Stay silent and say nothing? I just don't know how to handle him anymore and I don't understand why he's starting this with me the last 2 night
Where do you go? You go to dinner, you kiss your kids good night, you tell your CNA's you appreciate what they do, you breathe, you sleep, you vent here. Wash, rinse, repeat.
This is an issue with him, you can't fix it.
Gut feeling: this is the first we have heard about him getting a place... I guess it's no longer sunshine & rainbows on the couch?
The venom (which is undeserved) may be coming from 19girl... she might start to smell the stink on him.
Keep moving onward and upwards! You got this!
25 - thank you for all of your insight. Let me clarify as much as I can for you so you can have a better understanding. You'll have to bear with me because I'm on my phone and I'm not good at quoting like others lol
Okay the 2 vehicles he has are mine - owned in cash and worth about 20k total. He is hiding them at his boss' shop locked up and since day one I have not been able to find either. One of them is an SUV that he is now letting his boss and his wife (they are his GF's parents) use the truck. I did send them a message saying they did not have my permission to use the vehicle because it's in my name and I'm paying the insurance. I never got a response but got a picture of the wife posing in front of it! My L knows EVERYTHING I have shared with you guys. We are in the process of getting the vehicles back and it has cost me a good chunk of change. We had made an agreement via our lawyers (H and I have not discussed him returning the vehicles since he refused to in March). We came to am agreement and when it came time to him return them he backed out and said no. Then last week they had a case management conference about our divorce and his lawyer was shown the picture of the boss and his wife with the truck that they were on vacation and he was appalled. Said he believe his client would do what he asked and we would have the trucks returned in 3 days. Multiple calls and emails later a week passes and we hear nothing. Which leads us to having to file an emergency hearing for them. My lawyer has asked me to hire a repo company to find it. So I have until tomorrow to get it taken care of if not then emergency hearing (she was going to file it last week but wanted me to try a cheaper route to save some $$)
Okay so the car that is broken. It was not in am accident. It's my work commuter car. It broke down almost 2 weeks ago. I sent H a text that I needed him to drop off one of the cars he has since he would be going out of town because I had to work and the boys and my dad would be stranded with no car. He told me it wasn't his problem I ran the car into the ground and didn't take care of it and that was it. He told me I'm not dropping anything off to you. Along with a. Few other choice words including calling me a wh0re and that I told him I would change and clearly I haven't because I think everyone should help me no matter what. Okay so I never responded to anything and my friends took care of making sure my kids had ride to basketball games and practice.
Fast forward he's in the keys that whole week and gets back this week. That's when he starts demanding to know about the car. The mechanic told me it would cost more to fix than what it's worth (stupid BMWs!!!). I have NO problem letting him look at it at my house when I'm home. He can bring his mechanic here just like he said hed bring the mechanic to wherever it was. I do not trust him. Plain and simple. He wants to know where it is to take it. He has lied about everything to everyone. My L is also aware of the car situation and was brought up to his attorney thy be refused to give us just one vehicle back for the kids to have transportation which is why his lawyer was like I'm sure we can take care of that so the kids will have a vehicle. Obviously that didn't happen
The money he took was in March and right before he filed. He waited until we we're out of the country to do it. I made a fraud claim, tried to file with the PD but was told it's civil. That's also the same thing about the cars. Everything is CIVIL because we are married. Even when the boss had the truck without my H I couldn't. Report it stolen because been though it's in my name only he is still my H and he gave them permission.
So my L will be going after that in the divorce. She said it adds to what kind of character he has and judges will see that. Hoping she's right. I'm sure it wil come out in a wash anyway. I offered him 48 hours to return the money before making a fraud claim with the bank and he told me his lawyer told him not to return anything (this was in March)
Okay I'm going to go back and read what else was said and I will finish another post. Please ask any questions if something is confusing. It is all a big cluster!
I don't want to tolerate the way he talks to me when he texts me. I have posted our conversations here lately. So maybe I should just say something along the lines of H we can have this discussion when you are in a better frame of mind'
I don't know that he will ever look within himself. Our main issue was his job and how I didn't like it. I did not like his boss. He was an ex felon who was basically a used car salesman. H worked 12 hour days and got paid next to nothing with constant promises of a raise. H was a good man. He always did right by everyone and would give someone his last dollar to help them. This hurt him too - he was always willing to work so hard and never get reimbursed. I told him we wanted him home and we didn't care about how much he made. I said id get a second job if he really wanted to open his own shop. He took this as me thinking he couldn't provide and I could have communicated what I meant better. But I did tell him what I meant since he left and he said 'oh I didn't know that' 'why didn't you tell me all this before it got to this point and I HAD to leave' and I said I'm sorry that it wasn't communicated the right way but now you know and I left it at that.
He is immature. He does not realize the gravity of his actions. He still cannot be honest with the boys or I about his gf. He says they are just friends. My C believes he has built up this family as his army of support and they are helping him believe his own lies but it's up to him to figure out when and if he wants to stop. He was actually just talking terribly about his boss all of January. saying he was ready to get out of that place and went out on several interviews. Then something changed - I'm thinkng him getting close with the daughter. Then all the sudden it wasn't the boss it was me!
We also have another issue. He always got paid under the table. Another issue between us. H left a great paying job making almost 6 figures to move back to where we are now. He hated it there and I said if moving back will make you Happy we will do it. He said his now boss said he would pay him the same salary. Well we get there and that was NOT true. He paid him less than 900 a week UNDER THE TABLE. So we lost our tax return that we got every year and counted on and all of his health insurance and benefits. He didn't give him any PTO. So it was a mess. His boss promised it would only be for 6 months. Then here we were 2 years later. So it did cause a lot of problems for us.
We ate through our savings. His boss kept saying he didn't have the money blah blah. My H said he was robbing peter to pay Paul and that's why the shop couldn't make money. That is why my H tried to work late and get extra jobs done so he could get more jobs done and more income to the shop so he could start getting paid more. All of his friends that knew his boss told him to get out of there. H like
I said knew he needed to. When everyone found out he left and went to his boss's house they all said VERY BAD IDEA. It is not the place to go. Several friends offered him to come there to which he declined. I didn't understand why because I didn't find out about the boss's daughter until the end of April/beg of May
I'm protecting the boys and I first and foremost all accounts have been changed etc.
And my L said he would do this. He would wait until mediation to get his own place so he can try to get the boys. She told me she is planning on asking for no overnight visits until he gets his act together and that he can take them 4 days a week and return them to our house.
Sorry if I missed anything.
Oh and the boss did the same exact thing to his first wife. He cheated and left her and his 2 young daughters, I actually believe they were the boys ages, for a 20 year old he met at a strip club lol. He is now married to her. So in this family this is OKAY
I don't want to tolerate the way he talks to me when he texts me. I have posted our conversations here lately. So maybe I should just say something along the lines of H we can have this discussion when you are in a better frame of mind'
If he brings it up, or is condescending:
1. Do NOT go to battle
2. Simply say: I would appreciate it if you didn't call me that, or say that (I am thinking in context of the "big girl" comment).
I would almost want, you to do the old Ann Landers line: When someone asks your an inappropriate question or says something inappropriate, simply respond with:
Why would you say that? or Why would you ask that?
We also have another issue. He always got paid under the table. Another issue between us. H left a great paying job making almost 6 figures to move back to where we are now.
You attorney will be able to navigate that. Also, (and I don't want to start a forest fire here) but are you 100% aure he never got that raise?
And my L said he would do this. He would wait until mediation to get his own place so he can try to get the boys. She told me she is planning on asking for no overnight visits until he gets his act together and that he can take them 4 days a week and return them to our house.
Sounds reasonable. Provided he does get his act together.
so it sounds as if, in time, your rights will be protected and you'll get SOME of these funds back, right?
Oh yes, I know it sukks now, and you have to sort of just endure, but at some point in the not too distant future, per your L, you will be alright, correct?
I hope so.
Are there any jobs around that you might find interesting? Just to get some money coming in, but without losing any strategic advantages in court?
Good luck and keep us posted!
I actually am working 2 jobs. I am a nurse so I work in the picu full time (3 12s a week) and I have a 6 week contract in the CVICU. I have been doing he contract since April so I renew it every 6 weeks as long as the unit still needs me. It's what's getting me through.
My L is confident I will get all the vehicles back. It will be good for me because it's $$$ I need to put in the bank. She thinks the money he took will possibly be a wash. She thinks we can use it as a bargaining tool for custody. The money he took is tricky because even though it's my inheritance and in a savings account in my name only that he hacked into by guessing my password. (No clue how he knew it). But because I MIXED the money it kinda screws me. I pulled money out of the inheritance to pay for vacations and bills if we were short. Especially with his pay cut. So I'm not planning on getting that money back. This way if it doesn't happen I won't be too upset. He used the money to pay for his attorney and then he said he was fixing up the truck (the one in my name he has).
I have a journal and a big binder with eveything from day one. I have every single text printed out as screen shots and In my folder. I have every day whether he has called textd saw the boys, showed up late, not shown up at all down to a T. Hopefully this will help me. I have every receipt etc documented. Just like a few weeks ago he refused to split a summer camp with me saying he had no $$& yet that weekend he posted he was with his Gf up in North Carolina for the weekend. It may not matter but I will use anything I have to at this point and if that inhibits him from every wanting to R then so be it. I shouldn't have protecting the boys and I held against me.
And wounded - to the forest fire I laughed when I read that. It is a GREAT possibility. I just don't know I want to believe that that's who H was. I want to believe he was a good man when we were together. I hate to discredit the lat 10 years.
So I'm just sitting here at basketball. H is all dressed up. Not even going to mind read. But I'm dressed nicely Everytime as well
Well anyway he walked right by and didn't look at me let alone acknowledge I'm alive.
I'm just not sure what to do in these situations from a DB perspective. I used to play baskets with him and one of the boys but after how he's talked to me the last week I really have no desire to. I am still trying to DB. I know we may never R but I want to be the person only a fool would leave.
I know we will walk out to the car together. I almost feel like when I'm silent and don't talk it reinforces his feeling of me being a bitch
Anyone???
Since nothing anyone says or does matters or penetrates into his brain then there is no reason to try to conform your behavior to what would be a mind-reading scenario either way.
Do you feel that any warmth towards him at all would look like anything other than you being a doormat? He won't respect you because you smiled at him after all that. Behave with dignity and don't give him the time of day.
He's already a fool to have left. Believe it. Live it.
Sorry, that was a bit late. Keep it for next time.
Thanks Maybell.
After he was done talking to his friends he ended up coming up and sitting next to me. He asked me about the cat (he had been texting me about her about a month ago which I ignored) I told him how I took her to the vet etc. he then askd if I got the water pipes fixed or if I found someone to do them. He offered to trade out work with a. Friend to have them fixed. I told him thanks for the offer but it was already fixed. I told him my work car was back at the house and he was welcome to arrange a time with me to come by when I'm home to look at it.
We ended up staying an hour after practice just the 4 of us by ourselves playing basketball and having a hula hoop contest. Towards the end I felt like I was being too warm and friendly after how he treated me so I sat down and watched the boys play.
We walked to the car together and he said good night. That was all
I feel so torn in these situations. I saw the man I married tonight when we were all playing and having fun. But I know that's not who he is anymore. I want to be friendly and have fun because I want him to see what he's missing but at the same time the way he talked to me and has treated me he doesn't deserve to feel he can do that and me still be nice.
We talked more tonight than we have in months. Mostly about how he feels thjngs always go wrong when things are bad and feels like we both can't catch a break.
Wow.
Are you thrown?
I'm not qualified to comment here beyond that, but how do you feel?
I feel sad. Honestly.
He is capable of being that man that I knew. But is that man always there and just doesn't want to be with me?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I don't expect anything from this. I'm way too guarded to think of this as a positive
I think it's nice he was able to be in your presence and be pleasant. In that moment.
I've been reading labug's old threads and there was something this morning that really resonated for me:
If your only reason for being here is to "Save My Marriage" you will be stuck in the same place a year, 2 years, forever. Lay down the save my marriage banner and pick up the one that says "Save Me"
If you're here to improve yourself, get rid of some old baggage and are open to the process you just might create a new life for yourself. It may or may not include your spouse but that might no matter.
Here here! (Or hear, hear?)
I'm joining the "Save Me!" club.
I am NOT defending him... but
Even the best of people have a bad day, and take it out on the next person they see. There have been numerous times in my life where I snapped or threw a dig, and it was just during a circumstance where someone caught me at the wrong time.
I think of the poor salesman who came in and cold called me the day after exW dropped the bomb on me...... I seriously doubt if he will EVER come back.
You responded appropriately (by not taking the bait).
Again, I am not excusing his behavior... but he has tons of emotions going on in his head too, and it feels like he is not dealing with them in a healthy way.
Off on a side one/armchair psychology: Part of me thinks a WAS hopes to hear after a bomb drop: "You know, I felt the same way... I was just afraid to bring it up"
And when the see/recognize things may not have been as bad as they built it up in their head (the grass is not greener), they try to act out and create reasons to justify their course of action.
It really throws them when they do not get the reaction they were trying to invoke.
I don't expect anything from this. I'm way too guarded to think of this as a positive
I would not look at it as a positive.... but it is far from a negative. The truth lies somewhere in between (but closer to a positive).
Woundedfool made me think of something that was a HUGE realization for me...
Now that I am not so anxious and depressed all the time, I can see that many of my H's statements or actions reflect HIS OWN anxieties or stress, and really have nothing at all to do with me! Now, instead of reacting immediately, I let myself breathe and re-read, or think about what he said through the lens of "what does this seem to suggest HE is anxious about?" rather than anything at all about me or his feelings for me.
Does that make sense?
Claire - that TOTALLY makes sense!!! Realizing that H's temper tantrums were really more about himself than about me was a big eye opener for me!
It helped me kind of see where he was in his head (a little bit better anyway), but didn't make me shift my focus from the things that I was working on for me (which was good, because most of his rants really weren't my issues, so that had been confusing).
Haha - did I make sense? LOL.
TO,
I'm glad to hear you had a nice exchange with your h. Sometimes when we relax and not think about what *might* happen allows us to have good interactions -with everyone! I. I do understand that you may feel a bit confused although you should just take it for what it was-a pleasant time with your h and boys.
In regards to what the WAS is missing.....hmmm. I'm going to be honest, I think that depends on the WAS. I should preface this by saying I'm kind of nerdy and read everything and like to look at everything from all perspectives. I keep hearing people say "show the WAS what they've given up or are leaving behind." I think the reality is that some folks decide they don't want any responsibilities or obligations so they *see* what they are missing and simply don't want to deal with it. It doesn't mean to stop focusing on you and building a full life for your boys. Absolutely not! I think it's just that for whatever reason , some people no longer want those responsibilities and obligations so in their mind, they are missing *stress*. They think *freedom* and *starting fresh * will make them happy and those stressors won't exist in their new life. And they won't.....until they do:-). It's called life. hope I don't sound like a downer.
Just my take on that. I'm sure many decide at some point down the road they do miss that and some probably continue to escape and avoid.
Wounded - you better not be defending him or all those checks I mailed you to Cali will be cancelled. Haha
And yes all I totally agree. I believe when I don't give him the response he expects from me then he can ease up a bit and possibly enjoy himself. I just want him to look towards wanting to focus on our family rather than enjoying himself with the boys and I and then running home to Ow. I know that may sound wrong but it's how I feel. If he needs months to figure this out if it's something we COULD try I'm fine with waiting and working on me but to be pleasurable in these interactions but still run home to Ow is the wrench thrown in that I don't know how to deal with. I don't expect or plan to say anything and I know he needs to end it on his own I just don't get how to change or handle my course of action. I never thought a OP would be an issue in our relationship ever. We both used to talk about people that cheated and how we felt about it.
GB - my parents think that is what happened. That he wanted this life and now that he had it he didn't know what to do with it and it was too much for him. He turned into being too selfish to do this full time and went for the fix he knew - boss's couch with a. Teenager. Carefree.
Wounded - you better not be defending him or all those checks I mailed you to Cali will be cancelled. Haha
Sorry, money went "poof".
I just want him to look towards wanting to focus on our family rather than enjoying himself with the boys and I and then running home to Ow. I know that may sound wrong but it's how I feel. If he needs months to figure this out if it's something we COULD try I'm fine with waiting and working on me but to be pleasurable in these interactions but still run home to Ow is the wrench thrown in that I don't know how to deal with. I don't expect or plan to say anything and I know he needs to end it on his own I just don't get how to change or handle my course of action. I never thought a OP would be an issue in our relationship ever. We both used to talk about people that cheated and how we felt about it.
That is indeed the hard part. You can work on yourself and make yourself near perfection. But if he doesn't work on his issues, then everyone is spinning their wheels.
GB - my parents think that is what happened. That he wanted this life and now that he had it he didn't know what to do with it and it was too much for him. He turned into being too selfish to do this full time and went for the fix he knew - boss's couch with a. Teenager. Carefree.
Your parents have quite a bit of wisdom
And now that there are external pressures on him:
1. Boss wants more production (or less at work contact with 19girl)
2. His welcome on the couch is wearing out (probably the driver behind him needing a place)
3. His L telling him to change/stop behavior
4. Family and friends not giving him unconditional approval for his path... creating isolation
5. Finding out the D will not be a financial windfall
6. Hearing the disappointment direct from the kids
He is seeing, the grass is not only NOT greener... its mostly weeds.
Wounded while I would love to agree since you always have been here for me since day one I beg. To differ.
I don't believe he sees the grass isn't greener. He's going on vacation every week. He has to get his own place because now that we have the date set for
Mediation he knows he won't get the boys.
He came by tonight to fix my
Washing machine. He insisted last night. I'm not sure why he thought I was home. My dad said he asked where I was. He had textd me also and asked if I was home. I said 'I'm out but my dad is there'
My dad ruined it for me and told him I was at work!
Anyway he said he's going to come over tomorrow to look at it again because I guess it needs a part. He also offered to trade me my broken BMW for the other car of mine he has. I asked if id be getting the BMW back he said 'see how everything goes with the attorneys getting things sorted out'. I left it at that.
I'm no expert, and who knows--maybe he is scheming somehow... but a working washing machine and a working car sound good to me. (Not "head over heels" good, but "I'll take it" good.)
"Keep the road home (or the road of 18 years of co-parenting) paved and smooth," right? If nothing else, it might be nice to have a civil enough relationship so that the father of your kids, who is a handy fellow, would still be willing to fix some stuff around the house five years from now... right?
Oh I have no doubt this is something that benefits him somehow. It's just who he's turned into which I don't allow myself to believe he's genuine right now
You know Claire you're right it would be great to be able to have a civil relationship. But it's hard for me when I see we can have fun and get along and he doesn't miss that.
Also, I believe it's important for me to be independent and take care as much as I can around the house on my own. I don't want him to feel like I NEED him. Want him yes but do not need him.
I did make sure to thank him and said I appreciated him for coming by and taking care of the washer.
You know Claire you're right it would be great to be able to have a civil relationship. But it's hard for me when I see we can have fun and get along and he doesn't miss that.
Yes, I hear you. But it **will** get easier. With young kids, we've got a LOT of years ahead with these WAH... surely we don't want to be holding on to this pain for years and years, right?
Also, I believe it's important for me to be independent and take care as much as I can around the house on my own. I don't want him to feel like I NEED him. Want him yes but do not need him.
Agreed. But is there a difference between accepting help when it is offered, and reaching out to ask for it?
Accepting that he can actually be nice sometimes doesn't mean you totally trust him, or think that he has an interest in reconciling. I think this falls under detachment, too: we detach ourselves from the negative stuff, but we can also detach from the positive, right?
Hang in there. My heart goes out to you. I know your sitch is not easy at all.
I did make sure to thank him and said I appreciated him for coming by and taking care of the washer. [/quote]
So it is okay to accept help if it is offered? It doesn't seem as if I was waiting around for him to come to my rescue?
I had a rough night last night. I think reading both you and Maybell's sitches got me thinking that I'm in a holding pattern and I really need to accept this for what it is - over. My heart does not want to do that but my mind does not want a man that's capable of what H has done in the last 5 months. I went and looked at cars last night again and just sat in the parking lot and cried when I left. I know it sounds stupid but it's just another thing I have to do as a result of H leaving. If he were here he'd be fixing my car so I didn't have to buy something else. Okay, pity party over
I ended up re reading through every single one off threads. Boy, have I made so many mistakes before joining here in April and since joining here. I guess I have never fully gone LRT like Thornton. I believe H and I both use things to communicate that we don't need to be. I don't know that it means he wants me back in his life but he definitely does some cake eating.
Mind reading alert----- there are definitely nights H texts me and is more talkative vs other nights when I respond and I get nothing. I believe it's when he is or is not with OW.
I need to start focusing on making the changes here for me. I have made quite a few and my mom and I talked about it a lot last night of how proud she is
Of me. That I do not react to him trying to start a fight with me. He was texting me last night while I was on the phone with her bringing up the attorneys and divorce and the vehicles after he asked if I was home and I didn't take the bait. I changed the subject to thanking him for coming by.
But there are definitely more changes I need to make to fix what my contributions were to this marriage. The most important thing I need to change is my need to be 'right'. This is going to be an on going struggle for
Me that I really don't know how to fix but I will certainly try. Everyone at work jokes that we are all that way that's why we work in an ICU lol.
His other complaints were that I was always nagging and complaining. While I personally didn't see it that way I need to work on a different approach. I truly believe H saw me as nagging a lot because if he didn't want to hear it he shut me out. But instead of continuing doing something a way that made him shut me out I need to come up with a different approach.
I know these are all things based on my M with H but I don't want these to be an issue for any M in the future whether it be withH or not.
Wounded while I would love to agree since you always have been here for me since day one I beg. To differ.
I don't believe he sees the grass isn't greener. He's going on vacation every week. He has to get his own place because now that we have the date set for
Mediation he knows he won't get the boys.
I appreciate you disagree. But:
Who goes on vacation every weekend? Outside of the uber-wealthy..... I have typically found it is people who are trying to escape things (like living on a couch, dependent on his boss for essentials, new friends that aren't quite working out, etc).
I firmly believe mediation has NOTHING to do with the housing search. His L would have told him at the beginning to have a "homelife" built up and ready. To do that on the cusp of mediation is a waste of his time. As one of the first questions will be: "where do you live?", and then: "how long have you lived there"? When the answer is "uhhh.. 8 days". It will be essentially like he has not lived there at all.
That does make sense, I didn't look at it that way. The weird part is 90% of his vacations are with the boss, his wife and the daughter. So it's like the four of them. There are some super creepy photos of the 4 of them in a hot tub together last week on vacation. It is so weird especially since we used to hang out the 4 of us ... Just now replace me with the 19 year old and it's the same thing. Oh and I can't say id be caught in a group photo in a hot tub lol.
Anyway - I'm soo looking forward to my 3 day weekend
especially since there's nothing the boys and I 'have' to do. Besides basketball. Who knows what we will get into. I feel like a new mom tending to my cat that is quarantined to the master bath. She cries and wakes me up in the middle of the night so a nap might be on the agenda if the boys will allow it!
Off to basketball tonight. Thinking about getting a little dressed up compared to jeans or shorts and a tshirt. Especially since it's Friday night ... Let his mind wonder. Especially after reading a comment on another thread about how we get too comfortable. I believe that's part of my issue. I think I just felt like he'd never leave. I knew I wouldn't leave him. I gained 25 lbs in the last year (on top of weight I needed to lose already from S3). I was about 40 lbs heavier than when we met and I think it took a toll on me the last 6 months before BD. I have since lost 20 lbs since all of this but am working on losing the rest. That is a goal for me'
The boys and I will probably go out to dinner or bowling afterwards. They are big into bowling right now. I need the bumpers too!
I tried to call H bluff on only paying half of the car payment but today marks 30 days past due and I just paid the other half. Too afraid of destroying my credit quite yet
Hope everyone has a great weekend. Looks like lots of storms here for us
Nothing new to report here. Two relatively quiet but pleasant interactions at basketball. We did see H pull into OW barn where she keeps her horses when the boys and I were out and about. And no I wasn't snooping (I haven't ever followed him actually) but our friend lives right down the road. Coincidence I guess.
Anyway I did send H a text that he ignored. I'm sure most will disagree but he is not paying what he and I agreed to back in February. Each month it gets less and less and then now this month nothing. So I did send him a text.
Hey, I just wanted to let you know I did pay the other half of the truck payment but I do need to get a check from you to help out here. I'm still covering the car insurance on all the cars, health insurance, cell phones, S's prepaid college, etc. If we could work out some sort of agreement that works for both of us that would be great. Let me know what you think. Thanks
Anyway he read it hours ago and ignored. So I guess I will go back to the expensive route with my lawyer. I thought we could maybe figure one thing out! If anyone has any insight on this topic it would be appreciated. I guess I should have let it be and not even thought he was in the place or mature enough to deal with anything without me having to go through the lawyers.
If anyone has any insight on this topic it would be appreciated.
Well... you asked.... so here yahoo go:
I am going to sound like an a$$ when I ask/say this, but it does have a touch of tough love element. So bear with me:
I thought we could maybe figure one thing out! If anyone has any insight on this topic it would be appreciated. I guess I should have let it be and not even thought he was in the place or mature enough to deal with anything without me having to go through the lawyers.
But what would lead to to the conclusion that all of a sudden out of the clear blue sky on July 26th would he start fulfilling his obligations, even though he has been ignoring virtually every other one... just becaue you asked?
From a distance, it appears the text was sent to fail. I have no advice per se, but I just want you to examine why you may had drew that conclusion. Or why you would set an expectation (a pretty high one, at that) that had such a small chance of success.
Honestly I am flat broke.
I don't regret the text. I know I probably shouldn't have said it but a complaint in the past was that I took care of all the bills and if we were short 'he didn't know because I didn't include him.' Trust me I didn't expect it to be sunshine and roses. I didn't even expect a response. I took the boys school shopping and really could use some financial help.
And I don't think you sound like an ass at all. I am here for criticism so I'll gladly take it. You always give me advice and I'm glad to take it whether it be what I want or not.
As much as I'm getting better at being detached it still stung seeing him pull in there with my truck to tow her horses. A truck I'm paying for. It stung that he doesn't ever ask the boys what they're doing on the weekends. It's been months since he's spent more than an hour with them at a time.
We had small talk about basketball. Just about the animals, asked what movie we watched last night (he heard me asking the boys when we left bball last night). He seemed to have caught himself when he said oh ya I saw that. I said oh you saw it in the movie theater already (this was when his Gf tagged him on fb at the movies) he said no I watched it by myself on my laptop a bootleg copy. Not sure why he still has to lie to me about her. They post pics together all over social media hello I'm not stupid.
Is this what I'm still supposed to be doing? Having light casual chats at basketball? I was just wanting to say hi and bye and maybe smile at him from a distance. But if he starts a conversation I engage. I don't want to be overly nice while he is entertaining his R with OW. But me not being okay with their R doesn't matter since he has filed for D.
I think now that you've given him this clear chance, it's time to get back to the lawyers. If he can't take care of what was agreed upon, this is something that needs to be dealt with, especially if it's affecting your kids.
Given that he's not paying, I'm not sure about the smiling and chatting him up when he engages you. It seems to me that being friendly to him could send the wrong message when he's not meeting his obligations. I might back off from the friendliness a bit more and be a bit cooler and removed, but not hostile. He should maybe feel the consequences of his actions, both in terms of finances and in terms of the fact that there's an OW.
I'm still pretty new to this, though, so I think a vet would be better able to weigh in.
TO,
I think you misinterpreted h's semi pleasant nature for genuine civility. Yes, the text was a waste, however, I don't see any harm. You tried to use logic and that just doesn't work. Back to the atty:-)
Right that's where I get so confused.
I need to be clear and concise with my actions because I don't want to come off as a cold bitch but I almost feel like me being 'normal' with him at practice let's him cake eat. We have a good time talking at the games and practices and then he leaves and goes to his other life.
If he engages me and asks about things maybe I should give shorter responses with less smiles and laughter? These are my only opportunities to show him the new ME so I struggle in how to act.
Someone help! Lol
Yes GB - you're right (my phone now auto capitalizes your initials btw haha). I thought with him being friendlier that we might be able to have one thing figured out between us. I hate to spend more money to get what he agreed with me. But I guess this is the wayward part right?
I think a lot of us tend to have a hard time letting go of the person that we thought that we married. This makes it easy to assume the best of them - that they will be or are being civil, rational, engaged, helpful, and all of those wonderful things. So we want to believe they'll engage with us in productive ways and we continue to act around them like we always have, because it's worked to a degree in the past, and it's hard to let that go.
Maybe it's important to remember that this person is not the person that you think he is, and won't respond as you expect. I don't know that the email did any actual harm, other than maybe highlighting how he isn't meeting his obligations, but allowing the lawyer to deal with this new version of your H. is probably the best bet for financial matters from now on, at least until you have some evidence that he's consistently meeting his obligations.
Ya definitely. Another lesson learned.
If I could just figure out how to handle the new H.
I want to come off as if, that he's the fool for leaving. But I don't want to behave as the doormat who you can sh*t all over and I'll still be here smiling for you at the boys events
lol
I totally get it - I have the hardest time figuring out how to handle my new H., and it seems like there are so many things to account for in terms of dealing with him.
I suspect that you can probably find a way to be both the things that you mentioned. Consider this: what if the woman that he's a fool for leaving also happens to be a woman who's strong, in control of herself, and knows her value enough to stand up for her needs and the needs of her kids? I don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive.
Right but how does that woman act? I'm working on figuring that out
I think that woman would benefit both of us
In regards to being a woman he would be a fool to leave, I believe it really means to be your best you. Focus on you and the kids. Laugh. Live your life with integrity and grace. Be pleasant and take the high road. Show your kids that you are their rock. Work hard. Be in the moment ( I struggle with this and an getting there )
Now, here's the kicker. I think some people are in such a place they can't even see what the person they are leaving is truly like. Kind of like that *make them want to come back to x*. If they can't handle responsibility and don't want any, that is a moot point to a certain degree. To the WAS. At some point, they may see their loss. However, you building a wonderful life, being an incredible mother, and living your life with grace and integrity...... That makes everyone see that you are the prize:)
Thanks as always GB. I hope to be as strong as you are. And I agree. I think no matter if I was made of 24k gold H wouldn't see me for anything than what HE wants to see me as. Like you said, you can't make someone that doesn't want to be a parent be one. That rings so true more and more each day. However - he thinks to this day I'm keeping the boys from him. He is fighting (supposably) for 50/50. This is where I'm like WTF.
I just want to be the person that is strong intelligent and most importantly does not stand for the way H is treating the boys and I. I don't want his little teenage bimbo thinking that this is behavior that I will tolerate for my boys. I will be fighting like hell for what I feel is in the boys best interest when it comes
To H and the boys. He can hate me for the rest of his life but someone has to look out for the boys best interest. I expect him to get over nights. My famil and friends think he wil keep up with it for the first couple months and then give them up.
Ok back to working on that strong independent woman.
GB. I think of you often (in a totally non creepy internet stalking kind of way). The boys and I sing and laugh in the car. And I always think of your words about having laughter and enjoying the moment with your children. We do so much more of that now. We always have but we really do now. So thank you for reminding me of what's important
Aw, thanks TO. That really made me smile. There is nothing like the laughter from your kids, right? I have heard my entire life how strong I am and while I am very humbled by that compliment, everyone can be strong. . Sometimes people just don't know it yet. I'm nothing unique in that regard. Some people just choose not to reach for their strength. We are all just dealing with the deck of cards we are dealt. Where is my royal straight?????:)
It's like I was telling a friend the other day. There really are only 2 choices in life- live or not. Let's take option 1:)
You are setting a great example for your boys. You pointed out something that I think of often. I don't want my boys to think we treat women or anyone disrespectfully. That is something I grapple with how to best handle. You are fortunate to have your Dad and he sounds like a great role model for your boys. That's fantastic!
You really are doing well. I know it's difficult not to focus on OW, but it's a waste of energy. It's all about you and your boys. Keep it up!
Without my family, my boys, and this board I don't know where I'd be. This has finally become our norm. The first several weeks were very sad on the weekends since that was our time with H and it was definitely hard to see other families but now it's different.
I know you don't know my H. But I have been thinking so much about him lately. Was this who he was all along and I didn't see it? I sure hope not. Everyone that knows us very well all still will say to this day he got involved with the wrong family when he left in February. Like I have said over and over they all told him not to go stay there. That they weren't good people. I always made nice with them because it was his work but never got a good feeling about them.
Not that it matters but I think H is/was a weak person. I believe there were things in our marriage and in me he was unhappy with that he didn't know how or want to communicate with me about. Did I think our problems were serious enough for this. Never. And I have told him that. When he gave me the only time on a phone call why he left was - I'm unhappy you don't like my job you don't like my boss and his wife and you don't support me. I said - H I am sorry I made you feel that way but it wasn't about you it was about the job I feel like they didn't appreciate you and if I EVER thought I would have to tell my kids we were getting a divorce over a JOB I would have let it go. I mean seriously we are splitting up over your job!? He just said I'm done.
So I truly believe our problems were smaller than what he believes they are now. I know now he and OW were spending late nights and some weekends at the shop since November when he said he was 'working'. I never had any reason until after he left to believe otherwise. She was always flirtatious with him on Facebook and would comment on every picture and photo he posted except the ones that included the boys or the ones of him and I. Just strange. It stinks to realize all or these things so far after the fact. I hate that I didn't fully realize the length and extent of their relationship until April/may. Coulda woulda shoulda right.
Like I said I have texts that he was telling his friend in January that she was so supportive of him and told him he deserved better than me. He deserved to be appreciated for how hard he worked. That she grew up in a divorced family and the boys would be fine. They would be better off than growing up in a home where their mom doesn't appreciate their dad. That he couldn't wait for his friends from his home town (PA) to meet her one day.
I know this all doesn't matter now but I just wanted to get it out there. I know there's not much I can do with this information. I do struggle with wanting to tell him that I know all of this. That i found out it was going on long before he left and before he says it did.
People will ask what will that change? If wont change anything but it will let him see I'm not a fool. I wouldn't tell him any of those things until after we are divorced and things are final. I was thinking of saying it to him in person after mediation. Not sure
I was thinking of saying it to him in person after mediation. Not sure
No, don't.... leave all that info with the L.
This could be the first of a few mediation/conferences.... your L will know the appropriate time to "spring" this on him (most likely in front of a judge.... who doesn't like hearing lies or "bending" of truth), Keep cool, no need to let him know you have a Royal Flush when he has a pair of twos.
We live in a no fault state and our state doesn't require legal separation. It seems SO easy to get just wake up one day and get a divorce. I didn't push asking for counseling I just did what I believe you said you did stating the while H feels the marriage is irretrievably broken I do not feel it is.
Okay wounded I need your advice. I'm looking to change things up this week at our basketball interactions. I won't be present the beginning of the week because I work 4 in a row this week but I will be at both games. Any suggestions?
I just got a random text from H in response to the text I sent him yesterday asking him to help out with some of the bills.
'Okay I can do that for you I'm just waiting for a guy to pay me for a side job I did'.
In the past when he ignored a text like that I would usually send a follow up text like why are you ignoring me, etc. so yay for a 180 for me I guess. Not sure if that counts but I'm counting it lol
Do I respond? I thought I would wait a few hours and just say 'okay, thank you'
TO,
Hi! Saw your note in Tarheel's thread. As luck would have it, I read through a lot of your posts just yesterday!
I am gonna catch up on a few things around the house and cook dinner, then I'll be back on. The hubs is sick and laid-up, thinkin' he's knockin' on Death's door - men are such babies when they're sick!
Anyway, that'll likely give me some time to spend behind my computer later.
But, quickly, I like this 180 of yours ^^^. I also like how he added "for you" on the end of the sentence, "I can do that."
My philosophy was: if H was being warm, I'd be warm (but not overly-friendly) back. So a simple, "thank you :)" would be great in this case. But maybe after a couple hours. You know, because you're a busy girl who's GAL and being a little mysterious.
Thanks train! I will look forward to your input. And thanks for the laugh about men being sick. I remember when H was 'really' sick last year. I overheard him telling a friend he looked like a skeleton and lost 10 lbs in a week. We always used to laugh about it.
Thank god they don't have to have babies!!
Okay wounded I need your advice. I'm looking to change things up this week at our basketball interactions. I won't be present the beginning of the week because I work 4 in a row this week but I will be at both games. Any suggestions?
First, do not give any early indications you will not be there (ie: don't text H and say: sorry, won't be at BB). He will notice your lack of attendance, when he asks (and he will, if not after missing one, but two), simply say you had something else going on (do not be specific... even if pressed).
Second, when I would make a common activity, I would give a pleasant "hi" to the W... but not engage first.
Third, I always made it there early, enough where she would pick to sit by me (not vice versa).
Fourth, I am a bit of a social butterfly, so I could get engaged in conversation with other parents. I used those as my primary discussions and stayed engaged in those. If the wife brought something up and started a conversation... I would be pleasant, but not hanging on her every word.
Side note, there were a few times when we needed to bring up a D issue (questions from L's,etc... but I would always say: "when we're done, can I steal you for a minute". I would keep that clinical, to the point and make it matter of fact. For example: Around tax time, I said "I would like to know what you were planning on doing about filing taxes, my L says we should file separately, but I wanted to know what you think, or if your L suggested anything, let me know when you can".
Finally, brush up on the 37 rules... memorize ALL of them, and live them. Especially for these BB meets.
Lotsssss of wisdom there ^^^.
Thanks wounded,
I, surprisingly, have actually done most of what you recommend. We are always early (and H is always late). He lately has started to sit by me. He won't say hi first but he will ask a random question about something (for ex last week about the washer). I usually am just pleasant and smile but do not drag the conversation on. I make a point to be talking with one of the other moms or engaged with whichever son does not have practice. Lately if H gets up to go play with whatever son is not practicing I will just let him have his own time. When we leave S3 almost always says daddy - you have to say bye to mommy and kiss her. H usually just says bye T.
I also have to really continue to remind my dad not to give H information about me when I am not around and H asks where I am. This happened last week when H came over and he thought I was home. He textd me and I just said I'm out by my dad is there. Well then he asked my dad and my dad said oh ya she's at work. UGH!!'
Thanks again wounded as always. I did send H the thank you text. No other communication besides that.
T0,
I wonder if it would help if you sort of established an 'alternate persona'-- you could sort of pretend to be someone who, for example, kind of knows your H, but not well enough to think about him. But, sometimes you might have some sort of business-related conversation have. He's a neighbor you are friendly about, but he doesn't enter your thoughts beyond that. And you, my dear, are fabulous.
What if you walked into the game like that?
Does that make sense?
Ya that may help me. Thanks Claire
The boys and I had another awesome weekend. Basketball and school shopping yesterday and a movie night/sleepover (just us 3 Ofcourse) that night. Today we went kayaking and tonight we went to dinner and bowling with a friend of mine and her two boys. I actually met her through H when we first started dating. It was a blast filled with tons of laughter from us moms watching the kids bowl! Well and the kids laughing at us moms bowling - wish we had the bumpers! Haha
We took a ton of pictures. She asked if I cared if she posted them on Fb (her and H are friends). I told her to do whatever she wanted to do. I said it didn't matter to me, he's blocked on my end so it doesn't matter to me. She ended up posting a ton of pics of the boys and a few of her and I and then the boys and I. I made sure I was dolled up incase we ran into anyone - we live in a small beach town it's always possible. Hence running into Ow at the grocery store and she doesn't even live in the same city!
TO - I'm glad you had a great weekend. It sounds like GAL is going well for you, and good job on putting your best self forward!
Claire - I like that alternate personality idea. It could be really helpful for faking it 'til you make it when detaching.