Ok here we go part two - DivorceBusting.com

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...694#Post2458694

Past thread!

Welcome to your new thread CW

Something that was told to me is that new threads bring change.

I think if you re-read your old thread you will see that the seeds of change could have been planted.

These seeds will need to be watered and tended to in order for them to grow.

That part will be up to you.

I hope you are up for the challenge.

Thank you cadet.
I have a very long journey ahead. I gave had a dark and horrible few days. I won't elaborate because it is something that only a few close friends will understand. I have read my w words again words she has written over 19 months. I know I was told to believe only half of what I read but I do know parts of my W and her words are her heart. She has moved on. She is happy and it is clear she has little respect or trust or faith in me. It hurts but it is something I must own. I don't know why I came to this forum. It is to save a marriage. I think I knew mine was over. But the truths and support I received over the last few very dark days have meant a lot. I will continue my work with my C. I will read the suggested readings because I think they will help me in the future but I won't continue to post. This place is for people with hope at saving a marriage and it is a good one. You've all gone through some much and to that end I know I'm not alone. I honestly thought I had given everything of myself to W. But I failed and gave her not much at all. I think. I'm going to take time to grow with myself and find my own happiness.

Thanks all.

CW I will respect your wishes.

Let me just say that your marriage was over a long time ago.
So was mine and everyone else's that post here.

Whether you can build a new marriage or not is really up to you.

I can tell you that first you must save yourself.
Cause you are no good to anyone else if you don't.

Whether you legally stay married or not, you will always be connected to your wife as
she is the mother of your children and when you look at them
you will see 50% of your wife and 50% of YOU.

So it behooves you to do the work if for no one else, your children, but
really for YOU!

Stop searching for happiness and look at the person responsible for your happiness.

YOU!

I'm thinking that you should stick around a bit and post...

Yes, this forum is about saving a Marriage, yet the best way of doing that is by saving yourself FIRST....

Your end goal not need to be the marriage for now, and you are getting some valuable feedback for yourself, and that is very important.

I'm not sure that I understood your initial reply to me...

Elaborate a bit ???

One of the things that you have said here, is that you do not believe that Love is a Choice...

And being a perspective kind of guy, I want you to think about something that opened my eyes a bit....

Do you love your children ??

I mean really LOVE them, with all of your being ??

Is it because of what they do for you ??

Like any other parent, I would say NO...

If my connection to them, hinged on what they did for me ???

Then I would be in trouble...

It is what we give, instead of what we take that fosters our love for another human.

And yes, we CHOOSE to give ourselves to them....

From your posts, I would say that what you EXPECTED, was the fairy tale life with her. You expected your love to foster itself, without having to put in the work. That the elevation of hormones, would last forever, and your distinction between "new" love, and "lasting" love became jaded. New love takes care of itself, and requires very little work.

Lasting love takes WORK, every day, knowing, and fostering those feelings. Building the emotional connection that keeps your partner BESIDE you, not in front, nor behind you.

Yes, you did things for her, we all did things for our spouses, yet we all wanted more. Like I said earlier, unspoken, unmet expectations result in anger, and resentment.

You may very well have been doing those things. What you failed to see, was that you were trying to fulfill her emotional needs, the way that YOU needed them, not the way that SHE needed them to be fed....

Your fix, for her needs....

It also seems that somewhere along the way, you have mistaken love, for obligation....

How would you describe the difference between Love and Obligation ????

Mach

Good analogy about the kids. You're right. My love for them is unconditional. I'm stuck on the word "choice". One gift W gave me is the power and beauty of words. She eats them like a rich chocolatey dessert. I never put much into them until the past few years. The word choice hangs there for me. I loved my children from the very first moment I held them. It wasn't a choice. It was an overwhelming desire. I never wanted kids. They weren't in my DNA make up. But I would give my life for mine.

I fed my W's love in a way I knew how. She did the same. Not an excuse( well not anymore). Just a fact. I'm in sales so I talk a lot but in truth I don't say much. ( kinda a key for sales). I carried that back to the M. And I kept every single emotion carefully packed inside a box. I was an "actions speak louder then words" kinda guy and thought May actions were screaming " I Love You".

So how much, did your love, come across as "the pitch" from your work in sales ???

What were you 'selling' her ????

Actually Mach. It's not that part of sales I brought home.

In the past months,as W and I discussed our M she took responsibility for only one thing. ( the rest she validated or justified). She apologized that when ever we enter a discussion on any topic and she disagreed she would fight until I either gave up and caved of as a last resort verbally withdraw any support for my choice. In effect leaving me alone in the responsibility.
In sales when you know your not going to be heard by the person across the table you pack you bag and walk. You can only go so far.
At home, and this was years into our marriage, I started to pack my mental bag. I knew there would de no give and take. There never was. I couldn't communicate with her verbally. Understand we had thousands of wonderful conversations but when it came to a topic that needed a decision I knew very well where I stood. So I stopped " sitting across the table". But I never stopped showing my love through action. And I never ever withdrew my support of her decisions. Half her choices failed. I didn't say " see wrong!!" I helped pick up the pieces and said no problem. It wasn't until much later that I started to resent having to pick up the pieces( this I own as all mine. And will never let it happen again not with her of my next R)
But I didn't bring sales tactics to the marriage. Lol. No. That wasn't my style!

Damn dude�.I came to check back and you are up to 12 pages. Holy Chit.

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I'm the one leaving because I couldn't stay.

Why couldn�t you stay?

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I don't know anymore.

More confusion from you � yet you are moving forward with a D. Why? Is it because�

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I'm hollow. I just got to the end of my rope and lost faith.

I get that you feel hollow. Did you expect your W to always �fill� you up? Was your expectation of HER maybe a bit too much for HER?

Faith buddy�by the way is not based on anything that you see or hear � it is based on an internal belief that is not dependant on anything else or anyone else except YOU.

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She thought I had affairs, I didn't.

Did you give her reasons to believe that you were having an affair? If you did, can you see why she may have been cold and distant. Affairs leave huge scars man�scars that take a LONG time to HEAL.

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She said I was cold and distant, maybe, but truthfully I think that was the result of years of being pushed away.

Based on some of your earlier posts�.i can see how she felt you were cold (personally I would have used the word condescending). You also say she pushed you away. Once again, that put all the blame on her. Com�on dude � own your chit here. She may have pushed BUT YOU COULD HAVE PULLED HER CLOSER.

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But after marriage w stopped being w. She changed. And the changes weren't good. And the changes weren't easy to see, they were small and slow but they were there. And after 17 years she wasn't the person I feel in love with.

Once again�your posts are always about HER. Always about what she did wrong.

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She didn't grow with me as a couple

Notice a patter��she didn�t�

Dude, she did not have to GROW WITH YOU�. She needed to grow�.you needed to grow�.. You could have grown separately and then met in the middle. Lemme ask you a question�how often where you home? How many hours was she alone while you were working?

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but the c agreed that I at least needed some individual work first. I have been in ic ever since.

Does this ^^^ tell you something? Have you thought for a second what the reason was that your IC said you needed individual work �first�.

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Putting feelings into words is a bit of a struggle

Funny�.you have a hard time putting feeling into words�yet it seems pretty easy and consistent for you to write about everything that your W did or didn�t do. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

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I don't want to be a victim.

Then don�t! I think I have said this before�.

A MAN OWNS HIS CHOICES

A BOY BLAMES OTHERS

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I met my wife and fell in love within seconds. Not minutes not weeks not years seconds. She is /was( please for the love of god don't crucify me on this) first and foremost my very best friend. She was( I can say was now) my lover my support my confident. Everything.

YET you are willing to throw it away.

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But as our marriage progressed it FELT TO ME that she new I couldn't voice my wants and simply took advantage of that and did as she pleased.

First you are making or made an assumption that she �knew�. Second��and did as she pleased�� Can see how that sounds? Did you expect her to stay home, take care of the kids, have sex when you wanted and just nicey nicey wife? If you did, it is actually quite normal for men of our generation to feel that way � probable is�women have changed and the way/manner in which we taught to treat them was flawed. She is/was entitled to do whatever it is she wants to. You do not OWN her. Remember�..she was (your words)�.my best friend.

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But my worry my fear is that I have lost all the feelings and they will never come back.

Faulty relationship thinking - �first FEAR is just that FEAR. It is not a fact. In terms of the feeling never coming back � I am believer in never saying never. You nor I know what the future holds�unless your God. The feeling CAN come back BUT it take WORK. Just like any relationship. Us men seem to think�.as long we pay the bills, don�t cheat, have sex every now and then�.that it should be enough for our wives. It is NOT. Never was. The difference between now and then is that women are more comfortable talking and dealing with there needs. So yeah�the feeling can come back. IF YOU WANT THEM TOO.

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Recent events which I am not ready to share have also caused me to loose my trust.

Now this quote kinda pissed me off. It is a veiled dig. What is she sleeping with someone else OR is that how YOU feel?

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F*#k I swear these post aren't me. I can do better then this

Then do better.

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Cadet
I'm going to disagree with love is a choice.

So what is LOVE to YOU? Define it. How do you receive it? What makes you feel loved? How do you give it?

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Reading that she saw me as weak. It made me angry. I spoke to a friend last night about it. Those words had sent me to a very dark place on Friday night. He said this might hurt a bit but I need to know, " are you hurt because she wrote those words or are you hurt because you think they may be true?" It was a slap across my face. I didn't know or have an answer. Still don't

So you have seen what she has written about you and NOW you are angry. I wonder how she would feel if she saw what your wrote about HER.

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But on the other side there were things I voiced as important to me. She ignored them.
How do we correct this in ourselves??? I understand I need to take responsibility for what I didn't say but how do I take responsibility for the things I did say but were never heard?

Give examples.

Here is one I will give you�. I love steak. Love a big rib eye on the grill. So�.I ask my partner to cook steak at least one day a week. She doesn�t. I can�.

a) Sit, stew and build resentment or
b) Go buy and cook my big steak myself. When she asks why I am doing it, I simple express that I wanted a steak.

Can you see the difference. You can and should not EXPECT that your W always does EVERYTHING YOU want.

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My w was a sahm. But our home was always a huge mess. More like a frat house then a home. This wasn't just the case while kids were in diapers but the norm even to today. I told her repeatedly that coming home to a clean house made me feel good. It was important to me. Her response was always "you want it clean then clean it. I'm not that type of person." It felt to me that she didn't value my efforts to provide her and the kids with a nice home and nice things. I felt like I was taken for granted

First�when you are a SAHM�it is not easy. Kids running all over the damn place, the minute you clean they make a mess. I can relate that what you were looking forward to. Lord knows I am a very neat person (no comments Mach)�.What I see though is you trying to CHANGE her instead of ACCEPTING her the way she was. So�could you have hired a cleaning lady to come in once a week? I remember having this very same complaint about my ex. And FTR, she is still a slob. What she did bring to the R though was different. She was a good mom, a good cook, she was �simple��My point is that she had a lot of positives that I CHOOSE NOT TO LOOK AT � in part because I allowed resentment to build up. Can you see where you may have done this?

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Clearly most of the responses seem to indicate I'm the one who should change. Why is change only expected on one side? Thoughts please!!!

Would you rather by HAPPY or RIGHT?

Think about it�.for a second�on one hand you wanted to provide your W and kids with the best you could, you wanted to be home and spend time with the family � these are YOUR words.

Remember we talked about WORDS and ACTIONS

You now want a D, chances are the income now has to support two households�so you going to have to skimp on giving the kids the �best��.. did you spend as much time with the family OR where you emotionally unavailable and distant � in part because you were depressed?

My point, is that as DB teachs�.�re-frame how you look at things�. Yes maybe the house was a mess, maybe you could have turn it around and offered to take W out on a romantic get-a-way or just a night out, then throw on some candles and have a little porn star sex. If you always look at the NEGATIVES�.you will never see the POSITIVES.

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Ok enough bs
Here we go
I can walk into the most dire of situations and take control. As an emt I have done that from everything from drug beating car accidents cardiac arrest and deliverying a baby. No issue here. As long as it doesn't involve me I'm solid strong and capable.
But the minute it's about me. My wants my choices. I revert to the child who only wants to please everyone and be liked. At 46 I am still the child I was taught to be. It ended my marriage. It built up bitterness and self loathing. And it made me feel weak.
So now I'm here. A starting point. I have an ic. I have friends who I've said this to and who are working to support my changes. I am on step one.

BEST FU*KING THINGS I HAVE SEEN YOU WRITE!

So how do we get to Step 2?

Originally Posted By: POSTED BY WONDER WOMAN GABBYMOM

And it's not about changing who we are. It's about improving who we are. Being better for ourselves. Usually these changes improve all different relationships in our lives.

Bingo ^^^^ Hey CW�.I asked an old poster this and according to him�.it help clear up things.

Would you want to be married to YOU�the way you are today?

If NO � keep posting and working.

If YES � stop posting.

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I invaded her privacy and read her words. I saw a truth about how she saw me and was destroyed by it. In that way she was right. I am weak

WOW that is pretty f*cked up. A little controlling if you ask me and creepy. What I find interesting is that you are invading her privacy yet you say you have no feeling for her. Personally, I think you still love her and really want this to work. Personally, I think you just may be using this forum to communicate to HER, which honestly is a little manipulative. I think CW�.your actions needs to start matching YOUR WORDS.

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When we finally started talking about problems at the beginning of S W said she stopped the physical because she didn't feel loved.

Write this down � she stopped �feeling loved�. This BTW is a hint for YOU � how does she want to �feel loved� � You�ll need this if you are to try and reconcile.

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And she need to feel the emotional to give the physical. I didn't understand exactly because I can have one or the other or both.

Women are very different than men � emotionally connect with her and her body will be yours. The key is to understand how to �emotionally connect with her�.

CW�I asked earlier in this post�how you receive and give love. This is going to be key. I believe that YOU like many men (myself included)�give love the way we want to receive it. I have since learned just how selfish that is. We must learn our partners. Learn how they want to receive love and then disperse our love in a manner that they can receive it. For example: I love to be talked to, engaged emotionally�that is how I receive and �feel loved�. My fianc� �feels love� when we are physical. In many ways she is more of the traditional male in our R. My point though is how do YOU think your W receives love. Apparently it was not the physical � otherwise you would not have not had sex for 5 years.

"For me it was a co worker who was going through hard times , D and children troubles. She valued my input and we talked often. If felt so good to have someone ask my opinion. w never asked my opinion. Right from the beginning. That's not a shot. It's a truth. So in the very typical male mind I was flattered to have a woman seek me out and ask for help. And stupidly I never associated it with an A. " because we weren't physical". But reflection has me asking myself a question and already knowing the answer. " if I thought it was fine why did I keep it from W?" Arrrg cause somewhere in my gut I knew it wasn't fine!"

FYI: This is EXACTLY, to the letter, how my H described how he got involved with a woman at work!
This is how an EA goes to a PA.
People don't (usually) just go: "You're hot! Let's go a hotel and lie to our spouses!"

My H started sharing with HER on a level that was inappropriate.
He started talking to HER about his feelings, hopes and dreams, instead of talking to his wife about personal things.
He has told me this is how it started.
She was "vulnerable".
She had "problems" that she needed "him" to "help" with and be a shoulder to cry on.

She was needy enough that he felt superior and thus more able to share those parts of himself that he kept from me, because he "did not feel comfortable".
(Those were his words, and he still says he doesn't understand "why that is." I believe him.)

And on some level he might have recognized where it "crossed the line", when he didn't talk about her with me the way he did about other co-workers.
But at that point, I was really not his #1 priority.

When he withheld information, when it started to become "secret".

When SHE became the person he looked forward to seeing and talking to. When she was the one who started to get the first call in the morning, the last text at night.
When she was the one who he called over three hundred times in one month, and texted thousands of times... I looked at the phone records in the beginning, and in that particular month, he called me FIVE TIMES, texted me rarely.
I felt ill.
This is BEFORE the PA ever happened. They were working up to it. (But there I digress, it's my pain calling...)

Right there is where it goes wrong..

Why he felt he couldn't/didn't want to talk to me on that level is something I'm trying to figure out...and see if I can see myself to blame anywhere.

Not to beat myself up, just to open that line of communication if he felt it was closed due to my actions.

And the fact that he didn't want to/was able to, share himself with ME, the one who loved him and had bonded my life to his... this fact is hurtful to me.

That's the kind of relationship I have always wanted with him.

So him opening up to some woman at work who ended up being a blip on the radar (which downed our plane) is hard to accept sometimes.

I always wanted his opinion... valued it.

He just never seemed to want to voice it.
So that's what I'm exploring now.
-----------------------------------

"I'm starting to really hate this self examination ;-) "

That's funny. I originally read this as "I'm really starting to LIKE this self-examination"!!! I think because that's what I've been feeling.
I am learning a LOT.

Sometimes it's hard to see ourselves as others see us.

But I think you are doing an incredible job of not shutting down and walking away from all this. It's got to be painful... you have courage to keep pushing forward.

I apologize for hi-jacking your thread, if that's what I have done.
My goal is to share my thoughts...hopefully they are helpful.

--GG

"W loves to read everything. Once she does she is an instant expert. After a few ic sessions she's cured. On a path. A better person. A strong person. I however am broken and weak. Everything must be my fault. But she still "loves" and wants to work on marriage. This after receiving a panicked email about how will she live how will she earn a living??? Maybe she could use the masters I paid for. Is it me? Am I being too harsh or does it sound a lot like she might love the paycheck more??
Thoughts?"

cw---This could be how my husband perceives me. And I tell you, it's not how I see it at all. I think it's a personality type. Your wife sounds like me. I'm gonna get out there and learn it and improve and darn it--it's gonna get rectified.
My H is more, "Duck and cover, I'm not gonna win anyway."

Sounds tooooooo familiar...

And this is where it gets hard. Because I definitely see myself in your description of your wife, and it's not pretty.

I could have written that letter to my H and left him behind.
However, he beat me to the punch.

Hey CW

I want to switch gears here a bit.

I have a few questions for you.

1) Do you want to save your M?
2) Are you willing to keep working on yourself?
3) Do you love your W?
4) Are you living at home or did she/you move out?
5) How often do you see your kids?
6) Are you �seeing� anyone now?
7) Do you have any interaction with you W? if so, what is it like?
8) Do you believe in yourself?
9) Do you think you can forgive yourself and your W?
10) If I told you�.that your W would come back to you, that you would have a kick arse M but it would take you 1 year � would you still be committed?

Eric you have given me a lot to consider

I think to you point it's not about not making the same mistakes. My W is with om. And she us happy. Actually I think he is from this forum. I'm with a gf. And she and I speak the sand ll. We connect in a way W and I never did. W is happy now in a way I never could make her. I'm happy now in a way she couldn't make me. I'm sad because I've lost a friend. A dear close friend but we gave what we could and both moved on to better partners. Ones that understand and can communicate. We had a rocky marriage but two beautiful kids. She is a remarkable woman. And now she is happy. She is fulfilled in a way I could not. The last 72 hrs been invaluable. I have a lot to reflect on. Hopefully this will take me forward in this new R.
Thank you all

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

My W is with om. And she us happy. Actually I think he is from this forum.

Why are you lying to us?

If it is to justify this?

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

I'm with a gf.

Just tell the truth.

Wow.

cw.. if this is really true, ^^^^^^ I have to tell you, I feel a bit violated.

Truly the last thing I needed after opening my heart to you. I actually told you things I have not told anybody, in an effort to help.

Now I feel you were either just looking for justification, or maybe fishing to see if OM was on here and if you could reel him in.

Either way, it doesn't feel good on my end.

I am still processing this. I felt safe here. Now, not so much.

--GG

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

I think to you point it's not about not making the same mistakes. My W is with om. And she us happy. Actually I think he is from this forum. I'm with a gf.

Wow, the thread reads a little differently with this info.

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

The last 72 hrs been invaluable. I have a lot to reflect on. Hopefully this will take me forward in this new R.
Thank you all

This looks like a sign off. Maybe he'll learn something someday.

CW what makes u think Ws OM is from this forum? What makes u think she has other man?

It is kind of a slap in the face for most us that u came here for support while you are cheating on your wife.

See most of wanted to save our MARRIAGES...i would have given my life to do so, almost did......

I will pray for you, hard.....

We'll since you all asked. And since you all have confirmed that an ea and a pa are the same then yes. My w is with another person. And it is from this forum and it isn't new. Why are you all mad about this. ???? I accept it. Expected it. I'm a little lost on all the reactions.

I was very clear from the beginning that this marriage was over. You all gave me things to reflect on. I even stated that I didn't think this was the right place for me. You encouraged me to continue. I'm a little confused to be honest. My W led me to this forum. We post separately. Nothing I've said here is inaccurate. And several times I have expressed my feeling that I'm in the wrong place. Several of you know exactly who my W is. Your reactions to my posts indicate this. I really do value the input, the comments. I don't want to make the same mistake moving forward.

.

Im going to share something. I left my 1st w for my ex. I was 22 years old. Left her with 2 young sons. My entire pay went to her until 2009. I lived in shame all this time. My sons now 29 & 27 dont want anything to do with me.... I dont blame them...you will wake up many days wondering how the kids are, what they look like, who they look like, how are they doing in school, who they hang with....You wont matter to them... when you get to my age it will matter very much to you...
I too wanted greener pastures..somehow they all dried up after awhile....

Rick.
We've been seperated for two years. I'm not cheating. She's gone on many dates and I have a gf. We did work on the marriage. We did spend time focusing on us. But it wasn't going to happen. But I never cheated. Please be careful with your words

If you have a GF now and you are only seperated, then you are cheating at the moment.

No cadet no lies.
I think you have posted on her threads many times. She values your input.
But yes I'm positive she is in an EA. And has been for quite some time. You don't text someone daily, speak with them into the night and ask them to visit if there is nothing there.
I am good with this. I encouraged her to date during our separation and it was genuine. I encourage her still. But the whole time we spent working on us she was in a EA with a member of this forum. It was hard to repair an M when the other has moved on.

No I disagree. Both my W and I have dated during the seperation. It is accepted during this time. Cheating as you call it is when one person steps out without the others knowledge of consent

I admit.
I am confused.

CW, you're saying all three...no...all FOUR of you are on this forum???

You, your wife, her BF... Wait that's three.
Is your GF on here too?

If not, she should be. Then this would get really interesting!

Anyhow. If at least three of you are here, how come all this stuff is going on?

What was your purpose in coming here?

Was it to get some insight or dig up dirt?

Because I would still help with the former.
The latter, not so much.

But I will take a clue from the vets here and STFU.

I'm curious to see how you handle it from here.

For what it's worth.
I have three male FRIENDS who I occasionally text late at night, talk to on the phone, and see on a regular basis.

They are very caring and supportive. The also know I am MARRIED.

Just having a male friend does not make it an EA.

I am not talking about, nor doing things with them I would want to hide from my husband. I am an open book.

Lately, being "separated", I have been talking to them more.
Just like I've been talking to my female friends more.

But an EA means keeping secrets because we know what we're doing has crossed the line.

Do you REALLY know your wife is in an EA?

Sounds like you are, definitely.

Decisions should be based on FACTS, not feelings.

IMHO.

Wait a minute. Wasn't I just told a few threads ago that what you just described dis an EA???

And. Sorry cause I'm laughing. My W and her om probably don't post they all have moved happily off to the alt (re facebook) where they now reside.

No my gf is not here. But she is in some ways one of us. Divorced , children and starting a new life. Now she and I speak exactly the same LL

Nope. Fact !!!

Game Over.

Agreeded

Funny, now that I think of it though.

You finally found a way to say all the things I guess you didn't have the guts to say in person.

Originally Posted By: GoatGal

What was your purpose in coming here?

CW, you never did have the decency to answer GG's question after she tried her best to help. I'll take a stab though. I bet you found out W was posting here and it didn't sit very well. And she found OM here too (doubtful, but in your mind...)! You couldn't believe that people were actually giving her support when she was so clearly the one to blame. So you finally couldn't take it anymore and had to tell the "real" story.

Does GF know you are posting here? After the kids, I think I feel the worst for her in this situation if she doesn't know. If she does, well, good luck.

I'm sorry everyone seems so mad
W knows I'm posting. She's the one who encouraged me to post and work things out. Gf knows I'm posting ( not crazy about it) but understands I am working through a process. I have twice now, said that this forum is probably not right for me. Thanked everyone for there insight and twice now everyone encouraged me to stay and not to worry and to work on self. Just words people?? Wow I guess!!

I don't think you understand why people are seemingly upset.

I mean, no one will fault you for wanting to be happy. What I think you missed is that many people on here really tried to help you get your M on track and you didn't really seem like you were into it. So they feel like they wasted their time. You started posting a little over 2 weeks ago, yet now you say you have a GF already. Seems pretty fast to go from wanting to save your M to getting into a new relationship.

"Just words people?? Wow I guess!!"

And this comment is just plain rude. That should be applied to YOU. You were just saying words about saving your M while your actions said otherwise. Simple as that.

This site can definitely help you get the relationship you want from a new person. The problem is that you have to be honest about what you want to do. You never did answer if you wanted to save your M or not. You kept saying it was too late, etc. And so everyone tried to encourage you. But you really weren't into it were you? That's fine, but be honest about it.

Your new GF will only benefit IF you learned what DBing was all about. Changing yourself to become a better person. Honesty and trust goes to the top of that list.

Everyone who has tried to help you HAS been honest. And they spent their own time and effort to try and save a M that YOU kept saying you wanted. That's why they are frustrated. If you can't understand that, then you will fail in your new relationship because you won't be able to be completely honest with her. You will say one thing and act another. If you can do it so easily with a bunch of strangers, it will be childs play to do it with someone you just met.

Everyone who has tried to help you HAS been honest. And they spent their own time and effort to try and save a M that YOU kept saying you wanted.

Actually I never posted that I wanted to save my M. I tried to save it for years. I wanted to understand what I did to contribute to it's failure. To that end this has been extremely helpful.

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

Actually I never posted that I wanted to save my M. I tried to save it for years.
I wanted to understand what I did to contribute to it's failure. To that end this has been extremely helpful.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

Continue to lie and manipulate and you will be part of the 75% of people that fail at second marriages.

Cadet,
Where exactly is the lie and manipulation ?

I the very beginning of my posts I made a statement that my marriage was over. I was quickly told that this is a forum to save a marriage. I offered to leave.twice). I was encouraged to stay and keep posting. To work on me and my part In 4 days, with the feed back from this forum I've gone from believing that my W was the sole problem with our M to reflecting on my part and owning it. I wish I could explore this further. I obviously cannot do that here. I will with my C.

I have read parts of many threads. Some people in here are on there second or third R/M. Many have stated that they didn't save an M but have grown themselves and are now happy in new R.

I stated clearly my M was over. It wasn't a lie. The fact that I am presently in an R and my w is in a supportive emotional relationship( I don't think it's physical yet) shouldn't stop me from exploring my part in the failure of the M and how I can grow. And that's really all I ver tried to do here

"I stated clearly my M was over. It wasn't a lie."

What you don't understand is that EVERYONE who comes here says that. Usually they state it as fact, as you have, but again, because this is a M saving site, people assumed that you were trying to save your dying M.

So, with that being said, I suggest you start a new thread with your new frame of mind and that everyone who is willing to help you end your M and give you advice on your new relationship start there. For those who feel like they were "used", then they have the option of not posting.

From the lessons everyone has learned in their bad relationships, you wont' find a better group of individuals who will help you nurture your new life.

cw,

I think MrBond put it very well.

You did state several things and I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt--ONCE--- and address them here.

You said you loved your wife.

You said you wanted to be divorced.

You said you loved your wife.

You described a situation that was so similar to mine that I gave a lot of my time to helping you, and yes, helping myself understand because I saw similarities between you and my husband.

However, when you started with the whole, "I've got a GF", laughing, snarky tone and comments, and the "gotcha!!!" attitude---that turned everybody off, and for good reason.

If help for your marriage, understanding, and help for future relationships is what you're looking for, you're in the right place.

If you're here because you're really not over your wife and it's driving you batty because you think she's on here connecting with another guy, well, you're STILL in the right place!

The fact that your wife is on a site called "Divorce Busting" oughta be a big clue...

And unless you're only here to "send her a message" or spy on her, YOU came to a site called "Divorce Busting".

So please give me your thoughts on that.

However, if you're here to manipulate people to feel in control of your life when you're not, react with venom when cornered, well, then you still sound a lot like my H.
And, according to him, we ARE getting divorced! (Yet, his actions don't really support this very well.)

In my opinion, my husband resorts to saying hurtful things and passive-aggressive, angry tactics because he has limited coping skills to do much of anything else.
He resorts to a lot of the same stuff you did ^^^ when he is under emotional stress.
It's not an excuse, it's just an explanation.
Maybe you can see yourself there, or not.

But it all boils down to what you said originally:
You tend to keep everything inside and are not really comfortable showing your true feelings.
Strong emotions are difficult to handle, so it's easier to avoid them.
Easier to be a "good provider" than an intimate confidante. (I know, I'm paraphrasing)

It is exactly this way of dealing with things that causes important issues to be dealt with covertly, rather than openly.
And, in my opinion, posting as you did on this forum is a great example of going about things in an underhanded way.

But it's easier to be angry and thus feel "in control" of others, than it is to feel vulnerable to them.
Maybe we hit a bit too close to your inner "stuff"????

Just food for thought.

Seems to me, talking intimately to your wife, up close, and in person, in a supportive way, would have been the better option--- when you had it.

(Gee, I learn something new every day! You helped me clarify that one.)

So it's up to you.
Feel free to ignore everything I just said. After all, they're just words from a total stranger.
And I have already given you far too much of my time and attention.

But as MrBond said:

Play nice or take your ball elsewhere.

---GG

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

I the very beginning of my posts I made a statement that my marriage was over. I was quickly told that this is a forum to save a marriage. I offered to leave.twice). I was encouraged to stay and keep posting. To work on me and my part In 4 days, with the feed back from this forum I've gone from believing that my W was the sole problem with our M to reflecting on my part and owning it. I wish I could explore this further. I obviously cannot do that here. I will with my C.

I have read parts of many threads. Some people in here are on there second or third R/M. Many have stated that they didn't save an M but have grown themselves and are now happy in new R.

I stated clearly my M was over. It wasn't a lie. The fact that I am presently in an R and my w is in a supportive emotional relationship( I don't think it's physical yet) shouldn't stop me from exploring my part in the failure of the M and how I can grow. And that's really all I ver tried to do here

Is this ^^^ more of the same behavior patterns that you had during your marriage ???

The need to be right, regardless of the situation ??

The lack of CLEAR communication that you can twist into you being the victim ???

Now, if you are done with your pity party, you can choose to stay and work on you (like you have stated that you wanted to do), or you can choose to run away from yet another situation in your life...

I am also not buying your crap, about the affairs...

Either by you, or by her...

I think that ACCUSING her of that, takes the heat off of your actions...

And you have shown, that you catapult your feelings and emotions off of her...

It also allows you to be the victim in any given situation. And as long as you THINK that she is, then it allows you to be innocent...and justified in what you are doing...

It's called projection , and it is really F'ed up.

You underestimate a lot of people posting here, and the experience that they have in seeing the situations for what they really are...

If it looks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, and walks like a Duck....

It's probably a Duck....

There are usually three sides to every story...

Yours, Hers, and somewhere in the middle, is where the truth is....

What has been said to you ( and I apologize if MY words were unclear)...

Was that, from what you have said here, it is perceived that you are not done with your Marriage. Your words here are very similar to a person who is still on the fence. You are wondering IF things COULD be different with her. You are unsure if there COULD be a future with her...

Your choice buddy....

"Play nice or take your ball elsewhere."

I admit, this sounds snarky on MY end!

But that's what happens. Things devolve...

What I should have said was:

"You can play with us if you play fair."

CW
To say I do not feel a little shock at some of your statements would be an understatement.

Quote:

Eric you have given me a lot to consider

I am glad I have. Not sure it helped though because your actions seem to indicate that you have not changed.

Quote:

My W is with om

Based on what I have read this appears to be an assumption on your part. I also suspect that you must have been snooping since you mentioned facebook. So the question I think you need to answer for YOURSELF is WHY did you snoop?
FTR, I have friends with many of the people on the boards. Some have been to my house, I have been to others homes. I have created life long friends on here. Friends that I can truly say I love. That does not mean I am sleeping with them.
I have no idea who your W is texting or what the conversations are about. I suspect that unless she is doing it in front of you, you do not easier. So you are making an assumption. An assumption so that you can shift the blame once again to her.

Quote:

And since you all have confirmed that an ea and a pa are the same then yes. My w is with another person. And it is from this forum and it isn't new. Why are you all mad about this. ???? I accept it. Expected it. I'm a little lost on all the reactions.

EA and PA�s are NOT the same; however, the both have the same effect�which is a negative on any relationship.

Quote:

I was very clear from the beginning that this marriage was over.

Yes indeed you did write that � you also wrote how confused you are�how you loved your W�how you wanted your family.
To me, this is the same behavior that you probably exhibited in your M. A bait and switch if you will. You say one thing, your actions say something else. You shift, wiggle and manipulate YOUR words so that in the end�..
YOU SIR�DO NOT HAVE TO FACE YOUR OWN DEMONS!
I am sorry, but I actually agree�at this point you do not belong here. You are not ready to do the work. You want the easy quick fix. You want to have your new GF�who get�s you (actually she �get�s� the side that you show her, which chances are will change)�make the booboo�s go away. You want the little boy inside of you to be validated.
You say you EXPECTED that she would have an EA. I actually think you meant to say�you WANTED IT. IMO, deep down inside you needed the justification for YOURSELF. You needed to use this to sqash the guilt that you feel because of everything you have done to your W.

Quote:

I'm a little confused to be honest.

I actually think confused in not the word. Personally, I think you scared. I think you are scared to finally start fixing some of the deep seated issues that you KNOW that you have to deal with.

Quote:

My W led me to this forum.

WOW � I give her a lot of credit because normally we would tell everyone NOT to let their spouse know about this site. Why? Because we hope that with the changes they make the spouse that wants out would see the ACTIONS.
Have you sat down and thought about why she would direct you to this site (if that is what happened � even though I suspect that you must have found this out by snooping)? Have you thought that maybe she loves you enough to hope that you get the help you need? Have you thought that maybe she learned about her mistakes here and therefore wanted to see if maybe this could help you.

Quote:

Nothing I've said here is inaccurate

Maybe you are right. IMO, some of the stuff you have said�err..written is SPECULATION, ASSUMPTIONS and YOUR own version of the truth. So�.question�.has she told you she was having an EA or PA? Have you seen proof? Were you in the room when she was sexting with this supposed OM? Did you see the F*ck? OR is this YOUR ASSUMPTION?

Quote:

She's gone on many dates and I have a gf.

Define Date. Did she meet someone for coffee?

Quote:

We did work on the marriage.

I actually believe that you did. You both did�with the shitty tools that you have at your disposal. Now that you are beging to see how much work it would take � not to mention you have a nice GF on the side to keep you warm at night � you have decided to bail.
Let me ask you another question�..
Did you ever say to your W� �Honey�.I love you�.I am working on me�.can we try and work on us�but first let me finish working on me�. Let�s agree to not have OP in the picture while we do this�.I love you honey�I love our family�.
You prance around here and say you do not know how to communicate � well buddy�you knew how to communicate to pick up a new GF. What about your family. Your kids?
Personally, I think your kids and family deserved a better effort from you. IMO, you whimped out.

Quote:

I encouraged her to date during our separation and it was genuine.

Quote:

But the whole time we spent working on us she was in a EA with a member of this forum. It was hard to repair an M when the other has moved on.

IF You are blaming her again�then once again�you are shift the blame to her. So�quick question�who started dating first � you or her. Cause I suspect, your �encouragement to date was probably because that is what you wanted or were doing.
I�ll leave with this CW��
You can run�.
You can keep lying to yourself�.
You can keep manipulating�.
You can stop posting or join some other forum�..
BUT
Until you finally stop and fix YOU once and for ALL�.
You will continue to same patterns.

Good luck dude. Personally, I feel like at some point in the future you will realize that you gave away�your best friend and W�.for��because�..you were lazy and thought it was easier.

I think Eric nailed it with the scared comments.

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

W knows I'm posting. She's the one who encouraged me to post and work things out.

Man, your original posts don't read like this is the case. Your very first post:

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

I'm new,
No real idea who will see this but here we go( I looked at the abbreviations but I'm winging it)
I thought I'd give my story but I think I'll give the "Coles notes"

If W encouraged you to post, why the no real idea comment? And did we add "Coles notes" to eliminate any doubt on who you were?

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

I valued my w's opinion of me so much. More then I valued my own. The last trigger was reading words she had written about me over 19 months. Reading that she saw me as weak. It made me angry.

Originally Posted By: Cw_wc

Recently I did something I have deep regret about. I invaded her privacy and read her words. I saw a truth about how she saw me and was destroyed by it. In that way she was right. I am weak

Is it possible you found the those words here?

But all that isn't really the point. What I'm hoping for is that you can be honest with your posts, not just "accurate". We are all trying to move from weak to strong, change, improve. Do you want to?

You can run�.
"You can keep lying to yourself�.
You can keep manipulating�.
You can stop posting or join some other forum�..
BUT
Until you finally stop and fix YOU once and for ALL�.
You will continue to same patterns.

Good luck dude. Personally, I feel like at some point in the future you will realize that you gave away�your best friend and W�.for��because�..you were lazy and thought it was easier."

This ^^^^^ is what I wish I could say to my H. I believe it's totally true.

From Eric:

"Hey CW�.I asked an old poster this and according to him�.it help clear up things.

Would you want to be married to YOU�the way you are today?

If NO � keep posting and working.

If YES � stop posting."

Wow. You guys are confusing. ???!?!?